Military Review

Poverty in Russia: Rosstat talks about its decline, and Kudrin - about new criteria for its definition, which at the same time are unknown to anyone

213

Social inequality remains one of the key problems of Russian society. The polarization of society has become even more noticeable in recent years, when currency inflation and rising unemployment have led to a significant reduction in the real incomes of the population and its purchasing power. But Rosstat has other data: according to statistics, the poor, on the contrary, are getting smaller.


Rosstat declares a decrease in the number of poor


According to the ministry, in 2020, only 13,5 million people had incomes below the subsistence level - 9,2% of Russians. The number of people with incomes below the average level decreased in 6 months of 2020 to 17,8 million people - by 12%.

According to Rosstat, support payments from the government during the coronavirus pandemic played a role in reducing the number of poor people. Indeed, families with children, as well as those who remained unemployed (more precisely, those who were officially employed before the pandemic) received cash payments. But can they be considered sufficient, given the current level of prices for food, utilities, consumer goods? After all, the increase in the living wage or the minimum wage is incommensurate with the rise in prices, and the same indicators of demand for goods and services say quite the opposite.

For example, according to Rosselkhozbank analysts, beef consumption fell by 2020% in 3,4. That is, there are fewer poor people, but there are also fewer people. Rosselkhozbank cites the same pandemic as one of the main reasons for the decline in demand for beef: incomes of the population have decreased, and people have begun to visit cafes and restaurants less. Although the agricultural sector expects that the rise in prices for pork and poultry meat will lead to an increase in beef consumption. One can doubt this: rather, there will simply be a transition to cheaper food products for those who cannot afford to eat meat often.


Interestingly, not so long ago Rosstat published data on a record decline in the standard of living of the population since the beginning of the 2020st century: incomes of citizens in 8 fell by 15%, and Russia does not remember such indicators over the past twenty years. But what about the reduction in the number of the poor? It turns out that Rosstat contradicts itself? Especially considering that at least half of the country lives on incomes of no more than 10 thousand rubles a month. Payments of a point nature during a pandemic, of course, cannot change this picture: purchasing power has fallen dramatically, citizens' incomes have "sagged", and those XNUMX thousand per month that were allocated a couple of times for each child could never be corrected.

New criterion of poverty level and new minimum wage: what is wrong


Interestingly, the RF Audit Chamber recently announced the imminent introduction of a new criterion for the level of poverty of the population. But Alexey Kudrin does not disclose details about the new criterion. Apparently, neither he, nor his advisers and assistants have yet decided how to determine the poverty level now, and what will be the main features of the new criterion and its differences from the previous approach to the definition of poverty.

However, on December 29, 2020, Vladimir Putin signed a law on a new method for calculating the minimum wage (minimum wage). Since the beginning of 2021, the minimum wage and the subsistence minimum itself are calculated not on the basis of the consumer basket, but on the basis of the median income of the population. During 2021-2022 regional authorities should also bring their minimum wages up to the all-Russian level.


True, in Russia the median income of the population is not so high, and the new method did not lead to a significant change in the minimum wage - from January 1, 2021, it was determined at 12 rubles. Probably, you should not be seven inches in your forehead to understand: you can live on this money from hand to mouth, especially if you take into account the cost of utilities and mobile communications. After paying 792-5 thousand rubles a month for an apartment, 6 thousand rubles will remain with the minimum wage, that is, a person can spend no more than 6 rubles a day at a cost of a dozen eggs in the region of 200-90 rubles. So there is no need to talk about a decrease in the number of poor people in real time, and not on paper.

The promised indexation of pensions for working pensioners is unlikely to change the current situation. After all, we are talking about systemic poverty, and not only and not so much pensioners are among the poor. Thus, young families with children, who often do not have their own homes, are in an even more deplorable situation. For example, in order to have a living wage for each family member, while also paying rent for even the cheapest housing, a family of two parents and two children must have a combined income of at least 60-70 thousand rubles. But for the Russian provinces, salaries of 15-25 thousand rubles are normal, which in no way allows you to find the desired living wage.

Indexing pensions and a slight increase in the minimum wage will not help solve this problem, and if the minimum wage is raised to 25 thousand rubles, and this figure is most often called by the opposition, then employers for the most part will simply transfer workers to the status of self-employed or working under a GPC agreement, and they will pay all the same penny sums.

Changes in the criteria for assessing poverty and Rosstat reports are not able to change the existing socio-economic situation of the country and the material situation of many millions of Russian citizens. Moreover, if we take into account the global political situation, oil prices, sanctions imposed against our country and other objective obstacles to improving the situation in the domestic economy.
Author:
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  1. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome April 17 2021 05: 07
    +49
    Indexing pensions and a slight increase in the minimum wage will not help solve this problem
    pensions are a pitiful handout, but to put the entire government and the deputies on the "moot" is not money, but a mockery of the people. You will burn in hell.
    1. Dangerous
      Dangerous April 17 2021 06: 47
      -25%
      So the morat is more a zero point (from which payments and fines and a lot of other things dance) than a zerpdata. Nobody pays so little for an 8 hour working day
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 April 17 2021 08: 26
        +45
        ... according to statistics, the poor, on the contrary, are decreasing.

        The ruble is depreciating, GDP is falling, prices are rising ... but there are fewer poor people? Who is being fooled there?

        In our country, only the oligarchs get rich on the fall and impoverishment of the population. During the pandemic in Russia, according to Forbes, billionaires added $ 62 billion. About six aircraft carriers! And they say in Russia there is no money even for one.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 April 17 2021 08: 45
          +37
          Quote: Stas157
          Approximately six aircraft carriers

          Amendment. Six American aircraft carriers. Russian ones should be cheaper. According to the Komsomolskaya Pravda, the cost of the Russian aircraft carrier will be 300-400 billion rubles. Approximately $ 4 billion. That is, the oligarchs deceived us about 15 aircraft carriers. And this is only during the pandemic. How to live! They say thank you to the king.
          1. Proxima
            Proxima April 17 2021 11: 12
            +22
            Quote: Stas157
            That is, the oligarchs deceived us about 15 aircraft carriers. And this is only during the pandemic. How to live! They say thank you to the king.

            The oligarchs of the Russian Empire somehow looked like innocent bunnies in comparison with the present ones. The Russian people are very patient, but sometimes it suits the year 1917. Let the modern oligarchs remember this sometimes.
          2. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter April 17 2021 14: 49
            +24
            Quote: Stas157
            That is, the oligarchs deceived us about 15 aircraft carriers. And this is only during the pandemic. How to live! They say thank you to the king.

            And you can imagine how much they have pumped out of the country for 20 years.
            1. boni592807
              boni592807 April 19 2021 16: 42
              +3
              Stroporez (Private Airborne Forces), April 17, 2021 14:49 - "... Quote: Stas157 -" ... That is, the oligarchs deceived us into 15 aircraft carriers. And this is only during the pandemic. How to live! ... "
              And you can imagine how much they have pumped out of the country for 20 years.

              SOCHI, October 23. / TASS /. SUMMIT RUSSIA - AFRICA. 23 OCT 2019, 19:10. ...Capital outflow from Russia over the past 30 years amounted to about $ 1 trillion bully , and in general, $ 2 trillion was withdrawn from the post-Soviet countries during this period. About it said Minister for Integration and Macroeconomics of the Eurasian Economic Commission (EEC) Sergei Glazyev during the discussion "Economic sovereignty of Africa: problems and solutions" in the framework of the economic forum Russia - Africa. (source - https://tass.ru/ekonomika/7037106)
        2. the finish
          the finish April 17 2021 10: 29
          +13
          As in the 2008 crisis, the oligarchs became even richer. In general, I don’t remember any crises, sanctions, cataclysms in which the rich did not get richer, and the poor didn’t get poorer!
        3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 17 2021 11: 59
          +14
          Quote: Stas157
          The ruble is depreciating, GDP is falling, prices are rising ... but there are fewer poor people? Who is being fooled there?

          Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. It's more comfortable for him to live this way
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan April 17 2021 12: 11
            +18
            Do you think he's being fooled? Yes, he himself will fool whoever you want.
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter April 17 2021 15: 15
              +17
              Quote: Fan-Fan
              Do you think he's being fooled? Yes, he himself will fool whoever you want.

              That's for sure! And he does it very skillfully.
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 17 2021 19: 40
              +6
              Quote: Fan-Fan
              Do you think he's being fooled?

              They have been making a fool of him for a long time and in many respects, and he is satisfied with it if the information is blissful
              1. The comment was deleted.
        4. bandabas
          bandabas April 17 2021 19: 03
          +10
          But everything is stable with the guarantor. Unmercenary however hi
        5. bandabas
          bandabas April 17 2021 19: 07
          +10
          Mr. Sobyanin is pretty good at masks. Now there will be a second call
        6. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx April 18 2021 10: 20
          +2
          Quote: Stas157
          The ruble is depreciating, GDP is falling, prices are rising ... but the poor are getting smaller? Who is being fooled there?

          No one is fooled there. Everything is true and nothing can be done against statistics. After the presidential elections in 2018, VVP began to actively fight the negativity inherited from the “predecessor”. Here are the results:

          No one remembers the mass extinction of the oligarchs and those 190 citizens burdened with millions of fortunes. Consequently, the poor died out. It is their number that has decreased by 000 people. This is more than the population of the city of Kemerovo ...
          ==========

          ==========
          This is how (roughly) myths about a happy and dignified life are exposed.
          True, during the reign of the GDP, more than 100 people (completely unfamiliar and never received awards and gratitude) became dollar billionaires, and about 190 are "interrupted" by millions of states.
          They (in the Russian Federation) definitely do not care about either the minimum wage or the old-age pension ... And they solve poverty issues exactly as indicated in the article.
          So we should not care about the conclusions of the president and the government on the issues of the middle class and poverty reduction, or the work of the sheriff in dealing with the problems of the Indians.
          hi
        7. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx April 20 2021 09: 16
          -1
          GDP falls

          VVP is resting in the taiga!
        8. Mikhail m
          Mikhail m April 21 2021 19: 10
          0
          Quote: Stas157
          The ruble is depreciating, GDP is falling, prices are rising ... but there are fewer poor people?

          In such a situation, the poor do become fewer. They fall into the category of beggars. So there is nothing to scold the statistics ...
      2. O. Bender
        O. Bender April 17 2021 10: 13
        +23
        In the retail network where I work, the hour of the seller's work costs 75 rubles per hour. The working day is 12 hours behind the counter, plus an hour and a half for preparation, cleaning, etc. This time is not paid. The rest of the percentage of the proceeds, from 1,5 to 3 .Total on the card is about 11300 rubles for two calls. "Bonus" on hands in an envelope. As a result, from 16tr ...... to 22tr not higher. , if one then yes, 22tr. But there is no weekend from the word at all. The staff turnover is constant.
        1. the finish
          the finish April 17 2021 10: 36
          +16
          In all trade networks, processing and slavery. Come earlier, leave later, did your job conscientiously before switching to someone else's, all job duties were mixed for the lower echelon, all for everyone and everywhere the cameras would work at a run. ZP 22-24 t.
          1. Obliterator
            Obliterator April 18 2021 16: 47
            -3
            Quote: finish
            In all trade networks, processing and slavery. Come earlier, leave later, did your job conscientiously before switching to someone else's, all job duties were mixed for the lower echelon, all for everyone and everywhere the cameras would work at a run. ZP 22-24 t.

            And if, for example, a thief climbed into the store at night and stole or spoiled the goods, then all the damage will be deducted from the store employees.
  2. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets April 17 2021 05: 28
    +33
    What else can we expect from the occupation regime? They have one foot already there, just can't get drunk ...
    1. 210ox
      210ox April 17 2021 05: 56
      +23
      Yes, they live on another planet. Hypocrites.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins April 17 2021 06: 39
        +21
        In my childhood, under the USSR, there was ONE beggar woman in a town of 50 thousand. A thin old woman in all black. She went out to the central street near the bread factory and held out her hand. She was served. And she left as soon as the palm was filled with medics and "silver". I tell you, it was filling up quickly ...
        ONE! These are statistics! And the way numbers and calculations are presented to us now ... Let it be better to count how many people are at the garbage cans and in the passages with outstretched hands!
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 April 17 2021 09: 54
          +15
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          In my childhood, under the USSR, there was ONE beggar woman in a town of 50 thousand.

          I saw beggars only in Moscow at the Kazansky railway station when I arrived. I remember my embarrassment - well, how it was possible to humiliate yourself. It looked like an anomaly. Now beggars are everywhere. The norm of our Russian reality. By the cisterns in the morning and flashlights at night in the same place, these are people who are not included in Putin's unemployment statistics and are not considered poor. They simply do not exist. But the crowds of beggars gather at the time of the free soup distribution. This is not organized by our "responsible" government, but by the American Church. And at metal receivers. One of these next to the house. Therefore, I observe this picture every day.
          1. Hiller
            Hiller April 17 2021 13: 23
            +8
            There are three types of lies: lies, blatant lies and statistics.

            Mark Twain
        2. VORON538
          VORON538 April 17 2021 15: 24
          +1
          And this old woman did not receive a pension in the USSR?
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins April 17 2021 15: 30
            +4
            Is not a fact. I personally saw an old man who did not receive a pension. But that's a different story.
            1. VORON538
              VORON538 April 17 2021 15: 31
              -7
              Well, yes, as they say ... "this is the other."
    2. prior
      prior April 17 2021 07: 41
      +24
      Power is the worms in the body of Russia.
      Why worms? Because worms have no brains.
      Devouring the body from the inside, they are preparing the end for themselves.
      What is an army without soldiers?
      What is a society without workers?
      The state does not hold on to oligarchs, deputies and officials alone.
      But this does not reach our "worms", because they are brainless.
      1. tatra
        tatra April 17 2021 08: 17
        +18
        Worms are those who feed on the body, weaken, kill the body. Here are all these worms in post-Soviet Russia and "and now it is better than in the USSR."
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 17 2021 18: 23
          -4
          Quote: tatra
          Worms are those who feed on the body, weaken, kill the body. Here are all these worms in post-Soviet Russia and "and now it is better than in the USSR."

          That's right, comrade tatra!
          Enemies of communists from the ranks of the CPSU, found in the dollar dung of post-Soviet privatization, are destroying the modern Russian Federation by transferring special treatment of party functionaries to Israel and the Federal Republic of Germany, as well as relocating special distributors of regional committee members to the so-called. elite supermarkets.
          The special clinics inaccessible to the working people of the Soviet Union turned into inaccessible to the main part of the Russian population Assutas and Charité, and special shops for the communist servants of the people with all sorts of expensive ABCs of Taste!
          Shaw from them, worms, take something ... negative
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 April 17 2021 08: 28
        -42%
        Quote: prior
        Power is the worms in the body of Russia.

        What happens to the country and its citizens, the power is absent for a year? That's right - it turns out Ukraine with the loss of territories, civil war and impoverishment of the population ...

        Don't like the power? So in the fall we will all elect a new one - have we already nominated our representative or will we choose from what will be provided? Most likely from the latter.

        It is not necessary to compete with the National Guard in the squares, but to create a party, go to the Duma and change the Laws there, to the flesh until the return of the Stalin Constitution, taking into account the realities of the present day. This is called the evolutionary path of development. Any revolution throws back the people in economic development at least 25-30 years ago. We look at Ukraine and their negative experience is unforgettable.
        1. prior
          prior April 17 2021 08: 40
          +28
          I have no illusions about the election of the authorities either in Russia or in Ukraine.
          Life in Russia has not become better because of the number of laws adopted by BezDuma, and the number of the poor has not decreased.
          Such is the evolution ...
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 April 17 2021 08: 50
            -29%
            Quote: prior
            The number of laws adopted by BezDuma did not improve life in Russia

            If you remember, the first thing that the first Duma did - it started rewriting Soviet laws - was stamped like a printer ... As a result, we live in capitalism. So the role of the legislature should not be belittled. We all, including the president, live according to the laws that the Duma adopted. Even the law on raising the retirement age was passed without violating the Constitution.

            That it is worth the Duma to adopt a law on the nationalization of the banking sector, energy industries, a law stating that the wrap-up on products from the manufacturer's warehouse to the consumer's counter should not be more than 50% (as in the West), etc. - only the desire of the elect.
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan April 17 2021 12: 21
              +20
              Are you proposing to create parties here? People tried and what, where are these people - in prison. Example - Platoshkin, Navalny. As soon as a new party really comes out for the people, such a party will be instantly dispersed. So, people's candidates and parties simply do not allow the elections. Can't you see these simple truths?
              1. Pensive Lawyer
                Pensive Lawyer April 17 2021 15: 23
                +1
                That's just not Navalny. He is not for the people. He is not for the country in principle. He is, as it were, to put it mildly, a man who in his brains has not gone far from the instabloggers-minors. Therefore, minors for him and drown - a fellow in reason.
                Platoshkin - I don’t know, I can’t judge, I didn’t get to know him, his views and ideas, and therefore I can’t say anything bad.
                But not Navalny. So enchanting in court to act, deliberately bringing the court to white heat, literally begging for a longer period with your actions - and so that then there was "and us for what" ?? Ugh, an actor who didn't have enough brains to understand that he was no longer on stage
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 22: 34
                  -10%
                  Platoshkind is the new hope of naive, and in some places openly stupid dreamers about a bright communist future. Which is so left that it is right. Dreamers would compare the nonsense that their new leader is talking with what the classics of obscurity wrote in order to understand that they are trite to be fooled. But they have no time. It is necessary to shout and scribble slogans on the Internet.
            2. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt April 17 2021 21: 00
              +2
              [quote Even the law on raising the retirement age was adopted without violating the Constitution.
              ] [/ quote] One question .... Who is great and brave who signed, approved, licensed this resolution. It was this uncle who cut off and stole your penny. . The surname is not important, everyone has yachts. If there is no yacht - not a kid.
        2. I do not care
          I do not care April 17 2021 08: 58
          +18
          Well, yes. Where do we have to Ukrainians. True, they did not shoot their parliament out of tanks.
        3. paul3390
          paul3390 April 17 2021 11: 10
          +25
          but create a party, go to the Duma and change the Laws there

          What fierce elfism .. Have you tried it yourself? Shchaz - so you were given the opposition party to push into the Duma. They won't even be allowed to register it! The experience of the RCWP is an example of this. And your candidates will not be admitted to the elections for the most ridiculous pretexts. We passed.

          In general - are you suggesting that we sit down to play prefs with notorious sharpers ??
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 22: 48
            -6
            Quote: paul3390
            The experience of the RCWP is an example of this.

            I'm wondering. Has anyone heard of the RKWP besides the figures of the RKWP? I am afraid it is not. That says it all to me. Of these, the left is like a miner's ballerina.
        4. sniperino
          sniperino April 17 2021 14: 05
          -8
          Quote: Boris55
          Any revolution throws back the people in economic development at least 25-30 years ago.
          The political struggle of parties is archaic, like all representative democracy. Technological development allows a gradual transition to direct democracy and competition of social projects: economic, political, environmental, etc. Political struggles are the abhorrent legacy of neo-colonialism and US hegemony.
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 22: 38
            -5
            Have you smoked a libertarian training manual for an hour? Drop this case. It is fraught with serious complications in your brain gyrus. What good will you start to arrange performances in front of the building on the Lubyanka in defense of the bulk.
            1. sniperino
              sniperino April 18 2021 07: 48
              -5
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Have you smoked a libertarian training manual for an hour? Drop this case. It is fraught with serious complications in your brain gyrus.
              Is the flight normal? You, hike, either tried everything, or re-read the manuals: instead of convolutions, there is already one straight runway. What does my comment have to do with libertarianism?
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 April 18 2021 10: 25
                -4
                Quote: sniperino
                What does my comment have to do with libertarianism?

                Direct. The same unsubstantiated, divorced from reality and corny stupid like everything else among libertarians.
      3. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 17 2021 09: 15
        +10
        Quote: prior
        The state does not hold on to oligarchs, deputies and officials alone ...

        .... it doesn't get through because ....

        Why not hold on? It has been holding for 30 years. For 60 years (three generations) they worked hard to rebuild the country. It takes a lot of time and effort to sell all this ...
      4. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 18 2021 10: 27
        0
        Quote: prior
        But this does not reach our "worms", because they are brainless.

        good
        And insatiable greed - from cockroaches:
        And if the cockroach's head is torn off, then the "blood clots" will close the wound, the cockroach will at least lose "blood", and since insects have no brain, but there are several ganglion nerve centers located throughout the body, the cockroach will live until will die of hunger. If the cockroach ate a lot and densely before the execution, it can live for several weeks ...

        wassat
    3. Hagen
      Hagen April 17 2021 12: 00
      -18%
      Quote: Sahalinets
      They are already there with one foot, they just can't get drunk ...

      On the question of "there". The differentiation of the population into the poor and the rich was, is and will be anywhere in the world, regardless of the name of the country and its socio-economic formation. All people are different and therefore have different successes in achieving their material wealth. There are many methods for measuring poverty. For some we are all beggars, for others - three-quarters of the middle class. I would suggest considering such a fully accounted indicator as death due to malnutrition. How do you like it? It seems to me quite objective, and it can be used to compare "here" and "there" despite the name of the currency and the names of the leaders. What we have? Take the ASDR per 100 - Malnutrition, both sexes. The last year in the WHO database is 000-2015. We select the G-2016 countries (Big Eight) and see the result. The lowest result is in Russia and Britain at 8 deaths per 0,1 population. Germany 100000 is slightly worse. In Italy 0,2, in Japan 0,3. Somewhere in 0,4 or 0,3, Canada was lost. But in the United States they die of hunger 0,2 times more often than in Russia. In France, as much as 9 times more often.
      Isn't it true that somehow it does not fit with the opinion instilled by individual members of especially dissatisfied "experts"? I do not want to assert that there are no problems in this area at all in Russia. I'm just trying to look at this question as if from the side, measured by comparable parameters. I understand that for some, this look will cause an attack of aggressive rage. But, count to 10 and try to find counterarguments (not to be confused with "In my childhood, under the USSR, there was ONE beggar woman in a town of 50"). At the same time, I want to note that personal impressions from meetings with the poor or the poor rarely objectively reflect such a phenomenon as poverty and misery. Working in the Department of Internal Affairs, I was more than once convinced that beggars often live a completely arranged life, but in a different area. winked
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 22: 54
        +3
        Quote: Hagen
        But in the United States, people die of hunger 9 times more often than in Russia. In France, as much as 12 times more often.

        Catch up and overtake the USA? In medicine, we are already taking leaps and bounds towards this. Here even Putin whipped up that not everything in our medicine is good. State Department agent, I guess.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen April 18 2021 06: 01
          -9
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          Catch up and overtake the USA?

          Once again I am convinced that very few people want to defend their point of view reasonably ... Apparently, a significant part of the members of the forum are not ready for more than sprinkling manure on their own country. request
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 April 18 2021 10: 23
            0
            Well, cry or something. It might feel better. laughing There is no need for me to smear this country with manure. You guardians are doing great yourself.
            1. Hagen
              Hagen April 18 2021 11: 31
              -5
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Well, cry or something. It might feel better.

              I asked for arguments, but the competition was an empty verbiage. You, obviously, either read through the line, or just flood for a small fraction.
              1. Hagen
                Hagen April 18 2021 11: 49
                -5
                Quote: Hagen
                but competition

                Sorry for the typo. It should read "and not a competition ..."
              2. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 April 19 2021 11: 45
                -2
                Argument what? Official statements and statistics are not enough for you? A remarkable criterion is mortality from malnutrition. What's next? If mortality rates start to rise, will you start telling what is even worse in Africa? At the same time you do not want to take into account the achievements of scientific and technological revolution and the growth of labor productivity? That is, after 100 years of rapid development of science and technology, you are telling me that the fact that people do not die of hunger is just an awesome breakthrough in a snatch without swinging? Doesn't that seem strange to you? Why not use the criterion of mortality from diseases requiring expensive high-tech treatment? Because it will be a little more sad here? And yes, all these comparisons only to some extent reflect the real state of affairs. Because the basic flaws of the capitalist system are the same everywhere. And if something shitty everywhere it may well be a consequence of these shortcomings. But in principle, to whom am I saying this? Established demagogue of capital.
                1. Hagen
                  Hagen April 19 2021 13: 30
                  -3
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  At the same time you do not want to take into account the achievements of scientific and technological revolution and the growth of labor productivity?

                  Well, where is this labor productivity growing? For example, I have repeatedly urged you to comply with the rules of correct treatment of strangers. So what? You don't change. So is labor productivity. Comparable objective indicators may rise or fall depending on the STD. The main thing is different - the opportunity to see the state of affairs in the country in comparison, for example, with the TOP20 of the world's economies.
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  Why not use the criterion of mortality from diseases requiring expensive high-tech treatment? Because it will be a little more sad here?

                  I personally don't mind. Let's use it if you have something to show. Then you can discuss. In the meantime, I see only a surge of emotions. Do you understand what's the matter? If we undertake to assess some parameter of the life of the country, the people in the categories of good / bad, then it is always possible to do this in a relevant comparison. After all, one must see what is good in order to set a goal to which one must strive. And then you here grunted about official statements and statistics, but do not give their real analytics. Or mentioned that
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  the basic flaws of the capitalist system are the same everywhere

                  Can you tell me where and when the socialist system surpassed the capitalist one in terms of output, labor productivity and other parameters? Can you tell me why the socialist system simply died, but capitalism with all its shortcomings is still alive? Just do not quote "Utopia" in different interpretations. Man is not perfect. And no matter what system we proclaim here, each individual will have different opportunities, abilities, needs and, accordingly, the level of well-being. Therefore, today we are further from the ideals of equality and brotherhood than during the French Revolution.

                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  Are you telling me that the fact that people don't die of hunger is just an awesome breakthrough in snatch without swinging?

                  Yes, it would be a fucking breakthrough. But people are dying of malnutrition even today, in the era of scientific and technological revolution. They even systematically die from hypothermia in everyday life. In general, a collision with reality is sometimes painful ... It is also necessary to know which official statements to listen to. There are also a lot of questions with truth ...
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 April 19 2021 13: 45
                    +1
                    You are constantly bothering about analytics, but you have not brought real analytics. Only a few digits in a convenient intertrap for the guardian.
                    Quote: Hagen
                    Yes, it would be a fucking breakthrough.

                    This was a breakthrough at the beginning of the last century. Now a hundred years have passed and this is commonplace. And if people on a mass basis are dying of hunger somewhere, this is precisely the consequence of the shortcomings of capitalism. And you don't have to hum to me about special cases. It's not gonna go.
                    1. Hagen
                      Hagen April 19 2021 13: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                      You are constantly bothering about analytics, but you have not brought real analytics.

                      Progress noticed !!! wink Thank...
                      Now about analytics. Analytics - the weight is very voluminous and will not be included in a simple commentary. I have only superficially cited some figures that show that not all is lost. What for? No, not in order to endure the brain about the advantages of Russian capitalism over socialism. I don't think so myself. And then, at the sight of some disastrous moments, to delve into their essence and try to understand where the factors are objective, and where is subjective. Anyway, how bad is what we don't like today?
      2. WIKI
        WIKI April 18 2021 10: 27
        -3
        Quote: Hagen
        But in the United States, people die of hunger 9 times more often than in Russia. In France, as much as 12 times more often.

        I agree with you. And this result was achieved thanks to the wise policy of our leadership, thanks to which we will not die, but only will swell and get a little sick. "Roskontrol sent 23 samples of butter with 82,5% fat content to the laboratory, purchased both in supermarkets of large retail chains and in small outlets, where, as a rule, they sell budget products. In 13 samples, vegetable fats were found. Milk fat content. about 1%. " https://roscontrol.com/journal/tests/v-kakom-slivochnom-masle-net-palmi/
        1. Hagen
          Hagen April 18 2021 11: 43
          -2
          Quote: WIKI
          thanks to which we will not die, but will only swell and get a little sick

          By the way, this is quite noticeable. "... In Russia, almost half of men and more than a third of women are overweight. Almost every fifth Russian woman and every fourth Russians suffer from obesity ...." This is definitely the result of either hunger or harmful products. Only here on the Soviet GOSTs the life span was 68 years, and on the current "with impurities" - 73. How so?
          1. WIKI
            WIKI April 18 2021 13: 26
            0
            Not 68, but 69 years old. Only facts, as you suggested, not speculation. Https://tass.ru/info/7006937
            Everything flows and everything changes. So in 1990, in terms of life expectancy, we lagged behind Germany, and not only by 6 years. http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/app/world_e0_1990.php
            For 2019 and 2020, the difference is 8,9 years. Stable growth is not in our favor.
            https://tyulyagin-ru.turbopages.org/tyulyagin.ru/s/ratings/rejting-stran-mira-po-prodolzhitelnosti-zhizni.html
            1. Hagen
              Hagen April 18 2021 13: 44
              -6
              Quote: WIKI
              Stable growth is not in our favor.

              It's not the same for everybody. It's like having half a glass of water .... You have to understand that no guidance will force all people to evaluate this fullness from one point of view. There will always be people for whom the glass is half full, as well as those for whom the same glass is half full. In your view of the actions of the management, you see low-quality oil, and to this I notice that it is still of our production. It is useful to remember how it was in 90th (then NATO dry rations were given to us in the regiment in the last year of their validity).
          2. WIKI
            WIKI April 18 2021 13: 39
            -1
            Quote: Hagen
            Almost every fifth Russian woman and every fourth Russian suffers from obesity .... "This is for sure the result of either hunger or harmful products.

            Those who have grabbed the trough are obese from salmon, and the average Russian from sunflower and palm oil.
            1. Hagen
              Hagen April 18 2021 13: 52
              -7
              Quote: WIKI
              Those who grabbed the trough are obese from salmon

              You don't get fat from salmon. From her overeating usually nauseous. And your reference to the average Russian smells more of unverified information. In general, I think that the issue of poverty is very diverse and complex. There are also flaws of the government, which does not always make the right decisions, and the intent of the "partners", and our personal worldly recklessness.
      3. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 18 2021 10: 30
        0
        Quote: Hagen
        The differentiation of the population into rich and poor has been, is and will be anywhere in the world, regardless of the name of the country and its socio-economic formation.

        Only there are criteria by which the honestly worked out differs from the speculative "navar".
        It was in the USSR that citizens did not have envy either for cosmonauts, or for artists, or for people of professions with harmful and dangerous working conditions.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen April 18 2021 11: 27
          -3
          Quote: ROSS 42
          It was in the USSR that citizens did not have envy either for cosmonauts, or for artists, or for people of professions with harmful and dangerous working conditions.

          I won't say anything about envy, because no one knows it. And even you. But they knew the places where the ruble was longer, and some went there for it.
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Only there are criteria by which the honestly worked out differs from the speculative "navar".

          Of course have. It is listed in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Anything else is not dishonest by definition. Or do you think otherwise?
          1. notingem
            notingem April 19 2021 18: 51
            0
            Hagen minus you? What else do you want?
            1. Hagen
              Hagen April 19 2021 19: 41
              0
              Quote: notingem
              Hagen minus you? What else do you want?

              Do you think it touches me a lot? laughing I'm not a deputy. What I think is what I say. And I, in general, do not really upset that someone thinks differently. I can roughly imagine the average reaction to my words ... Have you decided to collect plus signs here? And what will you do with them then? wassat But seriously, I'm just interested in the people around me, although I can't say that I like everything about him.
              1. notingem
                notingem April 20 2021 01: 34
                0
                Touches touches
                1. Hagen
                  Hagen April 20 2021 08: 56
                  0
                  Quote: notingem
                  Touches touches

                  Rather, the aggressive denseness is sometimes surprising.
    4. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter April 17 2021 15: 06
      +9
      Quote: Sahalinets
      What else can we expect from the occupation regime? They are already there with one foot, they just can't get drunk ...

      If we take into account the unnaturally high mortality rate in the Russian Federation, then in a couple of years the poor will simply die out and thereby eradicate poverty and correct the statistics for GDP.
  3. YasenPen
    YasenPen April 17 2021 05: 37
    +15
    Putin and his friends were lucky with the "people" who bellow, keep silent and "don't calve."
  4. From Tomsk
    From Tomsk April 17 2021 06: 14
    +31
    I just can't decide who the riddle is about, help me pliz:

    Advertises Lada, but drives Aurus. Piaritis Sputnik, but hides what he himself was grafted into. Declares that he will leave in 2008, but extends the term indefinitely. He promises not to raise the retirement age, but "asks for understanding."
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins April 17 2021 06: 40
      +11
      ABOUT! These are different people. Group, I would say. A group of puppeteers.
    2. Dangerous
      Dangerous April 17 2021 06: 51
      -4
      GDP has surrendered to you, with its departure nothing will change and poverty will not go anywhere either. For a long time already "they" are on their own, we are on our own.
      1. dauria
        dauria April 17 2021 11: 45
        +6
        GDP has surrendered to you, nothing will change with its departure


        " - Yes Yes! - Izya responded. - If you take away faith in God from a Jew, and faith in a good tsar from a Russian, they become capable of devil knows what ..."

        Leave people at least hope ... wink
      2. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan April 17 2021 12: 25
        +5
        GDP has surrendered to you, nothing will change with its departure

        But we have not tried, let's at least try to live with another king.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Hiller
      Hiller April 17 2021 13: 27
      +6
      Statistics are a prisoner under torture: any testimony can be obtained from it by the necessary methods.

      John Rothschild
  5. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock April 17 2021 06: 14
    +14
    The first is
    If the income is below the subsistence level, then the person is not considered poor, but beggars.
    The second -
    What's the problem? People wanted it themselves. The whole country unanimously supported the coup in 1991. And then there was a military coup in 1993 with the execution of parliament, where there were too many dissenters.
    People themselves volunteered to defend the "White House", and then they themselves got into tanks and fired at the same house ...
    Well, here it is and the result. Capitalism as it is.
    I remember the joke about "they did not promise to feed on the way to communism," and under capitalism, they not only did not promise to feed, but they did not promise a bright future for everyone.
    It's just that for some reason, everyone decided that it was they who would become rich, and there it was.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 April 17 2021 06: 50
      +9
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      People wanted it themselves.

      People bought into the beautiful wrapper of capitalism.
      1. Dangerous
        Dangerous April 17 2021 07: 01
        -28%
        Why just a wrapper? From my acquaintances, no one is in poverty, each of them tries to do something, thinks something, and so on. There are those who, like 15 years ago, whined that there was no money, and still whine, even though the car and the apartment. Which of people under 30 is a beggar for example? Those who are afraid to work or do not want to work, ignoramuses, criminals. So it is up to 40 years old. Haven't seen a beggar for a long time.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 April 17 2021 07: 20
          +20
          You just need to define a niche. The food workers are beggars. And there are almost half of those people in Russia who, after paying for utilities, mortgages and other loans, who buy cheap food.
          Outwardly, I live quite well, but I haven't been able to buy new sneakers for myself for three months. I am saving up for vacation in Crimea by car. Either sneakers or vacation. wink
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous April 17 2021 07: 44
            -12%
            Come on)) crosses are 4-5 rubles, and vacation (I don't know the distance you want to travel) 100 rubles. So the crosses don't make the weather. On the other hand, I understand you, I also always feel sorry for money for clothes. Okay, my wife orders, so if you like it or not, you have to redeem))
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 17 2021 08: 20
              +16
              Yes, you are right about the hundred square meters. For the rest, you are mistaken when you save up for a vacation, putting aside 7-10 rubles, the rest (together with child benefits) is even enough for food.
              Here's an example for you - the government is declaratively fighting the demographic crisis, but in real life it does the opposite.
              Let's take the number of children needed for the minimum population growth - three. And we will take me, a father with many children, and having a salary slightly higher than the average for the region. We receive about 25 benefits, but until the wife goes to work. Total about 60. For five people, this is a penny, especially taking into account the mortgage and car loan.
              And it turns out such a fork in life - either children, or a relatively normal life, I chose children. And I put up with the fact that the purchase of sneakers has to be postponed for the third month. I repeat, I have a good salary in Togliatti.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 08: 36
          +18
          Quote: Dangerous
          No one of my acquaintances is in poverty

          From the acquaintances of Kudrin and Siluanov, no one is in poverty either.
          Quote: Dangerous
          Which of people under 30 is a beggar for example? Those who are afraid to work or do not want to work, ignoramuses, criminals. So it is up to 40 years old.

          That is, you want to say that they are treating you, teaching your children, building houses for you, ignoramuses and criminals? good I watch the next shkolotronsky mamkin atlant on the salary of the oligarchy came to success. laughing
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous April 17 2021 11: 07
            -23%
            There is one friend, a doctor. He works for himself, plus the official job of the head physician. The income is appropriate. This is because he studied well and still reads books with encyclopedias. Another familiar uzist / ct is 40-50 with a 5-hour working day. And you, uncle, apparently have nothing else in your head except for a set of stamps
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 12: 29
              +14
              Quote: Dangerous
              And you, uncle, apparently have nothing else in your head except for a set of stamps

              And in your head at all there are no brains, one translator of the Kremlin manuals crookedly sawn from the manuals of the State Department. Your special cases do not change nichrome. On average, salaries in these industries are pretty bad. And you, I look with an effort of will, have forgotten the recent scandals with paramedics.
            2. Kronos
              Kronos April 17 2021 15: 48
              +1
              With current prices and exchange rates of the ruble 50 poverty.
        3. Sergey Nikiforov
          Sergey Nikiforov April 17 2021 08: 37
          +24
          I invite you to our regional center And try to find a job there for more than 25 thousand, no, there are vacancies in the ads for taxi drivers with an income of more than 50 thousand and security guards for the shift, also 50 thousand But the reality is different If I tell you how much my wife gets an honored teacher Russia with a load of 29 hours (10th grade mathematics), I think that your beliefs about what someone is looking for will find, will change. But go to any chain store early in the morning and you will see a lot of pensioners. Why.? And shops sell food that expires in the afternoon. Isn't it poverty. The advertised Pension of 17 thousand, this is also poverty, taking into account the cost of medicines In short, you can write for a long time It's a shame
        4. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx April 20 2021 09: 29
          -1
          Haven't seen beggars for a long time.

          Get out into the city with your feet and use your glasses!
      2. atalef
        atalef April 17 2021 08: 06
        -4
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        People bought into the beautiful wrapper of capitalism.

        in general, capitalism is good, in Europe capitalism, Scandinavia - capitalism.
        It's just that you don't have capitalism laughing
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 April 17 2021 08: 21
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          It's just that you don't have capitalism

          I agree, Levoslavny. hi
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 08: 40
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          in general, capitalism is good

          Tell that to the hungry kids mining cobalt for your iPhone.
          Quote: atalef
          In Europe, capitalism, Scandinavia - capitalism.

          Capitalism is also in Haiti.
          Quote: atalef
          It's just that you don't have capitalism

          It's just cheap chatter and nothing more from a smug emigrant.
          1. atalef
            atalef April 17 2021 09: 08
            -9
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Tell that to the hungry kids mining cobalt for your iPhone.

            I don't have an iPhone.
            but if we take countries with a social orientation and capital orientation, then in terms of the number of poor people, socialism is beyond competition.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Capitalism is also in Haiti.

            capitalism is not there. capitalism is different.

            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            It's just cheap chatter and nothing more from a smug emigrant.

            I have something to compare with.
            And not in your favor. yes, the same type of socialism of the USSR (from the point of view of workers' rights and benefits) deep in .... compared to many capitalist countries.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 09: 32
              +7
              Quote: atalef
              I don't have an iPhone

              This radically changes the matter.
              Quote: atalef
              capitalism is not there. capitalism is different.

              So non-capitalism or different capitalism? smile
              Quote: atalef
              I have something to compare with.
              And not in your favor. yes the same type of socialism of the USSR

              It's all blah blah blah. From the category - "here your car breaks down every mile, and the horse goes on and on." And for some reason, remembering all the positive achievements of capitalism, which undoubtedly exist and the communists do not deny them, its adherents ignore all the negative ones. Including two world wars after which it becomes completely indecent to say what a bad communism is, given that we essentially never built it. But who cares about propriety when winning the competition is on the line?
              1. atalef
                atalef April 17 2021 09: 50
                -13%
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                This radically changes the matter.

                You named the iPhone, by the way, what about your computer and the Internet? Tea does not work on wood.
                And you probably have a mobile? So before you write
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Tell that to the hungry kids mining cobalt for your iPhone.

                as in an old joke - either pull on the panties or remove the cross

                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                So non-capitalism or different capitalism?

                don't be stupid.
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                It's all blah blah blah.

                no, I have been a hired worker for 30 years at * construction sites * of capitalism
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                And for some reason, remembering all the positive achievements of capitalism, which undoubtedly exist and the communists do not deny them, its adherents ignore all the negative

                because you are doing exactly the same thing. but tell me the advantages of the USSR over the developed capital countries.
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                taking into account the fact that we never actually built it,

                still scream about its benefits. wassat
                Therefore, as they say, sit and do not ... lie.
                a strange feature to compare what has never been with what is and to try to prove that what did not exist is better.
                This makes no sense.
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 April 17 2021 11: 16
                  +5
                  Quote: atalef
                  come on tell me advantages of the USSR in front of developed capital countries.

                  The USSR was the second largest economy in the world after the USA in terms of power. This despite the fact that the United States will amaze, live at the expense of other countries, supplying the world with cut paper, and the USSR, on the contrary, fed half of the world.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef April 17 2021 20: 09
                    -12%
                    Quote: Stas157
                    The USSR was the second largest economy in the world after the USA in terms of power. This despite the fact that the United States will amaze, live at the expense of other countries, supplying the world with cut paper, and the USSR, on the contrary, fed half of the world

                    storyteller
                  2. Drugov
                    Drugov April 17 2021 22: 32
                    -2
                    Well, I beg you, well, do not distort at the expense of feeding half of the world. The wiki even has a separate interpretation on this matter: Commodity deficit in the USSR. Well, no one denies the advantages of the Union, but you need to be objective and recognize the weaknesses.
                2. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 12: 15
                  +5
                  Quote: atalef
                  You named the iPhone, by the way, what about your computer and the Internet? Tea does not work on wood.
                  And you probably have a mobile? So before you write

                  Come on, won't you do demagoguery? Thanks in advance. What does my PC or smartphone have to do with the flaws of capitalism, and how will my abandonment help unfortunate children?
                  Quote: atalef
                  as in an old joke - either pull on the panties or remove the cross

                  Have you tried your own advice yourself? Fortunately, you need them more than me.
                  Quote: atalef
                  because you are doing exactly the same thing. but tell me the advantages of the USSR over the developed capital countries.

                  At least the absence of such a gigantic stratification in the welfare of the population. Publicly available medicine and education. But you only wanted about the shortcomings, right? You do not really care about the achievements of the USSR. Fortunately, there were plenty of shortcomings there, and in general, in the construction of communism, we turned somewhere in the wrong direction and more and more what was declared was at odds with reality.
                  Quote: atalef
                  still scream about its benefits.

                  If you do not see prospects, then this is purely your problem.
                  Quote: atalef
                  no, I have been a hired worker for 30 years at * construction sites * of capitalism

                  Yes, at least 100. Maybe you are a good specialist in your field of activity, but in the issue under discussion you are zero and this is even compared to me. And I do not pretend to be a genius from Marxism.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef April 17 2021 20: 07
                    -9
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    At least the absence of such a gigantic stratification in the welfare of the population.

                    the stratification does not bother me from the word in general, because for those who are not able to work, the state provides an acceptable standard of living, and those who do not want to work are their own business and the consequences depend only on them. But for those who work and are trying to achieve more, all roads are open - this is capitalism and rightly so.
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    You do not really care about the achievements of the USSR.

                    there are no achievements of socialism, which I do not have under capitalism.
                    Well, let's start with a simple one - 14 salaries per year. 25 working days vacation. wellness 6000 bucks a year, for clothes 1000 bucks a year, well, a dining room breakfast - lunch and so on and so forth, it is clear, payment for a car and insurance, gifts for all holidays. the possibility of retirement at will with an experience of 35 years (pension in the amount of $ 5000). at the same time, the pension is indexed every year, free electricity until the end of my life, and after (my) death my wife will use it as well as half of my pension.
                    continue or enough?
                    and my business is not the coolest in terms of benefits.

                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    If you do not see prospects, then this is purely your problem.

                    Outlook laughing
                    do you want to compare perspectives? wink
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    Yes, at least 100. Maybe you are a good specialist in your field of activity, but in the issue under discussion you are zero

                    of course zero. I didn’t live in the USSR, did I?
                    with my monthly salary under a lemon for your grandmother - in my discussion, it is simply unnecessary.
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    And I do not pretend to be a genius from Marxism.

                    and don't try.
                    1. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 21: 16
                      0
                      Quote: atalef
                      Well, let's start with a simple one - 14 salaries per year. 25 working days vacation. wellness 6000 bucks a year, for clothes 1000 bucks a year, well, a dining room breakfast - lunch and so on and so forth, it is clear, payment for a car and insurance, gifts for all holidays. the possibility of retirement at will with an experience of 35 years (pension in the amount of $ 5000). at the same time, the pension is indexed every year, free electricity until the end of my life, and after (my) death my wife will use it as well as half of my pension.
                      continue or enough?
                      and my business is not the coolest in terms of benefits.

                      And give milk for harm? Well, to your employees at work? smile
                      1. atalef
                        atalef April 18 2021 00: 43
                        -7
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

                        And give milk for harm? Well, to your employees at work?

                        Oddly enough, yes.
                        And also tea, soap, sunscreen, socks and for some kind of horseradish toothpaste. This is probably going by inertia, 70 years have been received - no one has enough eggs to cancel.
                      2. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 April 18 2021 00: 47
                        +4
                        Quote: atalef
                        Oddly enough, yes.

                        Why strange? I don't communicate so much with you, and my nerves are already starting to fail. You just have talent.
      3. apro
        apro April 17 2021 09: 04
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        It's just that you don't have capitalism

        Atalef is an adult, but as a small child, you repeat all sorts of nonsense. Real capitalism in Russia. Grandmothers rule everywhere.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 17 2021 09: 14
          -5
          Quote: apro
          Atalef is an adult, but as a small child, you repeat all sorts of nonsense. Real capitalism in Russia. Grandmothers rule everywhere.

          Under socialism, they rule the same.
          by the way
          Capitalism is an economic system of production and distribution based on private property, legal equality and freedom of entrepreneurship.

          do you have it?
          Well, further down the stage of development of capitalism - read.
          capitalism is different - like 50 shades of gray. fellow
          only here in the socialist countries that followed the Marxist-Leninist path - color-one is the color of the ass of the citizens inhabiting it.
          1. apro
            apro April 17 2021 09: 24
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            Under socialism, they rule the same.
            by the way

            Atalef. Where does this information come from? That in the socialist economy money was in last place. As an instrument regulating commodity exchange for personal consumption.
            Quote: atalef
            do you have it?

            Of course, the appropriation of surplus value for personal purposes is in full bloom.
            Quote: atalef
            freedom of enterprise.

            Excellent said. Only you, with the freedom of entrepreneurship, do not take into account market competition. But it is an obligatory element of capitalism. The market decides, and not regulations and laws. But then it turns out some kind of socialism.
            Quote: atalef
            only here in the socialist countries that followed the Marxist-Leninist path - color-one is the color of the ass of the citizens inhabiting it.

            This is not understood ??? What are you talking about ??
            1. atalef
              atalef April 17 2021 09: 37
              -6
              Quote: apro
              Atalef. Where does this information come from ??

              Well, how is it when the USSR did not pay with candy wrappers, or did you already have communism?
              Quote: apro
              that's what money was in the last place in the socialist economy, as an instrument regulating commodity exchange for personal consumption.

              come on, don't drive.
              without money, someone gave something? Maybe I lived in the wrong USSR?
              Quote: apro
              Of course, the appropriation of surplus value for personal purposes is in full bloom.

              And what's wrong with that ? The man is working. earns. sells his labor and knowledge - surplus value based on knowledge and experience.
              everything is fine.
              Quote: apro
              You do not take into account market competition in free enterprise

              why? And what's the problem with competition?
              Quote: apro
              and it is an indispensable element of capitalism. the market decides. and not regulations and laws. but then it turns out some kind of socialism.

              did not understand the message?
              Quote: apro
              This is not understood ??? What are you talking about ??

              exactly about the ass in which the citizens living in the social countries are.
              look at income per capita in socialist countries and it turns out that even the level in Russia (modern) level is not attainable for them.
              nothing personal - just facts.
              1. apro
                apro April 17 2021 09: 51
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                Maybe I lived in the wrong USSR?

                You can read and understand what has been said in a state ??? if it is easier to cash in the USSR. It is for the relationship between citizens and distribution organizations. Trade culture. Service. And not a means of production.
                Quote: atalef
                And what's wrong with that ?

                Atalef. So it’s impossible You just said that capitalism is not in the Russian Federation. And you just reaffirmed its basic principle.
                Quote: atalef
                ? And what's the problem with competition?

                Here you see again you confirm that capitalism is in the Russian Federation.
                Quote: atalef
                there are citizens living in social countries.

                So respected. Here, as I understand it, you mean. Countries that abandoned socialism in favor of capitalism and therefore live badly? Or did they live badly under socialism?
                Quote: atalef
                the level in Russia (modern) level is not attainable for them.

                For me personally, the standard of living of the USSR is unattainable for today's Russia.
                1. atalef
                  atalef April 17 2021 10: 36
                  -7
                  Quote: apro
                  if cash in the USSR is simpler. this is for the relationship between citizens and distribution organizations

                  What is a distribution organization?
                  Was the salary distributed?
                  There were no norms, tariffs, overtime, belt coefficients, categories - there was nothing. They didn't earn the payment - was it distributed? What country did you live in?
                  Quote: apro
                  trade culture is service is not means of production.

                  Ie the level of your consumption of the USSR did not depend on the place of work and the patch?
                  The USSR collapsed 30 years ago, of course, but I don't have Alzheimer's yet, I remember everything.
                  Quote: apro
                  Atalef. So it’s impossible You just said that capitalism is not in the Russian Federation. And you just reaffirmed its basic principle.

                  I did not understand, I am in favor of surplus value as the basis of capital relations - the fact that in your country Russia does not concern me, nor the whole world and its stage of oligarchic capitalism does not concern me.
                  Quote: apro
                  Here you see again you confirm that capitalism is in the Russian Federation.

                  strange you. yes, appendicitis has several stages, and you are trying to drive capitalism into one.
                  Quote: apro
                  Do you mean countries that have abandoned socialism in favor of capitalism and therefore live poorly?

                  they live better
                  Quote: apro
                  or did they live badly under socialism?

                  everything is relative. In the GDR under socialism they lived better than the USSR, and in Kyrgyzstan under capitalism they live better than socialist Venezuela.
                  meaning ---? countries that have passed from socialism to capitalism have raised their living standards and began to live better, and there are dozens of such examples.
                  but on the contrary - alas.
                  Quote: apro
                  For me personally, the standard of living of the USSR is unattainable for today's Russia.

                  The USSR and under socialism lived worse than other social services. countries.
                  Well this is Russia. you always had a special path laughing

                  Everything is not like people. request
                  1. apro
                    apro April 17 2021 10: 45
                    -2
                    Quote: atalef
                    What country did you live in?

                    And what are you in? The money turnover in the USSR is double-circuit. Cash and non-cash. And cash had no relation to production. Or do you somehow think differently? Salary and appropriation of surplus value are two different things.

                    Quote: atalef
                    what in your country does not concern me

                    I do not understand again. Do you think that there is no surplus value in the Russian Federation?
                    Quote: atalef
                    and you are trying to drive capitalism into one.

                    I'm not trying. He drove himself.
                    Quote: atalef
                    they live better

                    What are the parameters ???
                    1. atalef
                      atalef April 17 2021 10: 51
                      -6
                      Quote: apro
                      And what are you in? The double-circuit money turnover in the USSR. Cash and non-cash

                      and how did the non-cash payment allow me to pay in the store?
                      Quote: apro
                      wages and appropriation of surplus value are two different things.

                      We somehow talked about the level of consumption of citizens in the USSR, did it depend on the salary or not?
                      Quote: apro
                      I do not understand again. Do you think that there is no surplus value in the Russian Federation?

                      of course have . and it is right.
                      Quote: apro
                      I'm not trying. He drove himself.

                      seriously, that is, you say that capitalism in Germany and, say, Egypt or Haiti is the same?
                      Quote: apro
                      What are the parameters ???

                      over all.
                    2. apro
                      apro April 17 2021 11: 20
                      +1
                      Quote: atalef
                      we talked about

                      As I understand it, we cannot define capitalism in the Russian Federation or not. This is the main question.
                      Quote: atalef
                      of course have . and it is right

                      So capitalism in the Russian Federation ?? or not ??
                      Quote: atalef
                      seriously, that is, you say that capitalism in Germany and, say, Egypt or Haiti is the same?

                      Completely. The principles are the same. What is wrong ??
                      Quote: atalef
                      in all

                      Understood. A millionaire in a capitalist country is always more financially impaired than a Soviet worker.
                    3. atalef
                      atalef April 17 2021 11: 25
                      -5
                      Quote: apro
                      As I understand it, we cannot define capitalism in the Russian Federation or not. This is the main question.

                      capitalism, of course, in its initial oligachic stage. I wrote about it clearly in my opinion.
                      Quote: apro
                      Completely. The principles are the same. What is wrong ??

                      yes everything is so. here are gays - they are the same men. you are the same man? Or is there something wrong with this formula?
                      Quote: apro
                      Got it. A millionaire in a capitalist country is always more financially disadvantaged than a Soviet worker

                      millionaire?
                      I am a hired worker in a capital country - the Soviet director of the plant, and he is not standing next to me. (of course, probably not every plant) - but let's say on a regional scale - for sure, well, nothing.
                    4. apro
                      apro April 17 2021 12: 01
                      -2
                      Quote: atalef
                      of course capitalism,
                      Quote: atalef
                      It's just that you don't have capitalism

                      So what did you say it for ????
                      Quote: atalef
                      yes everything is so

                      Quote: atalef
                      Or is there something wrong with this formula?

                      Since ???? verbiage decided to do ???


                      Quote: atalef
                      I am a hired worker in a capital country - the Soviet director of the plant, and I am not standing next to me

                      Not in Honduras by accident?
                    5. Fan-fan
                      Fan-fan April 17 2021 12: 40
                      +1
                      Guys, atalef is right in many ways. Take Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, they have capitalism, but the standard of living of the population is on average several times higher than ours. Life expectancy is also noticeably higher. Why, yes, because their oligarchs and their kings share with the people, do not grab everything for themselves. And why so, do they really have more conscience, it is unlikely, most likely the people there are lively and know how to stand up for themselves.
                    6. apro
                      apro April 17 2021 12: 51
                      -3
                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      Why, yes, because their oligarchs and their kings share with the people,

                      Before claiming this, study the trade union and labor movement. Throughout the history of these countries. Be surprised. Capitalists do nothing willingly. And every brand. Franc and pound, the wage worker pulled out with a fight. And to win this battle he managed to organize and enlighten.
                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      Guys, atalef is right in many ways.

                      He is a petty provocateur.
                    7. Fan-fan
                      Fan-fan April 17 2021 13: 04
                      +1
                      Atalef did not say anything particularly provocative.
                      the capitalists do nothing of their own free will ... the hired worker pulled out with a fight. and to win this battle he managed to organize and enlighten himself.

                      Why can't the Russian people organize themselves in the same way?
                    8. apro
                      apro April 17 2021 13: 44
                      -5
                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      Why can't the Russian people organize themselves in the same way?

                      Do they need it?
                  2. atalef
                    atalef April 17 2021 20: 11
                    -5
                    Quote: apro
                    Before claiming this, study the trade union and labor movement. Throughout the history of these countries. Be surprised. Capitalists do nothing willingly. And every brand. Franc and pound, the wage worker pulled out with a fight. And to win this battle he managed to organize and enlighten.

                    and what difference does it make? He has achieved (in the capitalist countries) and in the socialist countries for some reason not.
                  3. apro
                    apro April 18 2021 00: 05
                    -2
                    Quote: atalef
                    and what difference does it make?

                    Everything changes. So capitalism is not as good. As you paint here. If hired workers openly acted. Fought against its manifestations.
            2. atalef
              atalef April 17 2021 19: 54
              -7
              Quote: apro
              Not in Honduras by accident?

              Well, if you consider the USSR as Honduras, then yes.
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 12: 45
            +4
            Quote: atalef
            capitalism, of course, in its initial oligachic stage. I wrote about it clearly in my opinion.

            What about the current monopolization? How does it fit in with your stages? And then you understand this has never happened, and here it is again.
  • Vsevolod136
    Vsevolod136 April 17 2021 17: 05
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    And what's wrong with that? The man is working. earns. sells his labor and knowledge - surplus value based on knowledge and experience.


    atalef, did you even understand what kind of game you froze, see the definition of "surplus value"))))
    the bad thing is that the PS is assigned by the capitalist to the ball)))
    but for a bourgeois it is good, are you a bourgeois?)))
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 April 17 2021 09: 56
    0
    Alexander: I could give you a rude answer, but why. The whole difference between the capitalist countries, who came to him and at what time. Why is it that everyone misses historical moments. In Europe, most countries came to capitalism in the middle of the century before last. We had a revolution. only 55 years after the abolition of serfdom. This is a very short time. Lenin also warned that party arrogance and ... would destroy the proletarian state. But after all, "obsessed with servile illness", the Bay's attitude towards subordinates has not gone anywhere. were to fight. And now it is on display. Zhirinovsky sings "God Save the Tsar .. Of course we can return. But it will be just a farce.
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 10: 12
      -3
      Quote: nikvic46
      The whole difference between capital countries, who came to him and at what time

      no, the difference is how free the people were.
      Australia was inhabited .. in general, it was a prison with free grazing laughing prisoners but somehow turned into a prosperous capital country (in contrast to the same Haiti or Liberia) that in general, in a time frame similar to that of Australia, they received generally freedom from the metropolis.
      what is the difference ? In law and court. In Australia, there were law and court.

      Quote: nikvic46
      .This is a very short time

      Singapore to you. South Korea. Emirates are different, the same Israel is not an example, of course.

      Quote: nikvic46
      Even Lenin warned that party arrogance and ... would destroy the proletarian state

      And now that Party 7 has helped?
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 12: 21
    +5
    Quote: atalef
    capitalism is different - like 50 shades of gray.

    But the ass from the economic crisis for some reason covers the whole world. This is your favorite ass question. The current situation with the coronavirus has shown how effective capitalism is. To be honest, I'm even afraid to think that it would be if this virus is as dangerous as the plague.
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 20: 14
      -5
      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
      But the ass from the economic crisis for some reason covers the whole world. This is your favorite ass question.

      crises are normal.
      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
      The current situation with the coronavirus has shown how effective capitalism is.

      showed excellently - we have 70% of those vaccinated.
      The number of patients is decreasing day by day and from the initial 10000 per day is now in the region of 300.
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 April 17 2021 20: 24
        +1
        Sasha. Why add the percentage of vaccinated. If vaccination continues at such a pace, it will take a year and a half.
      2. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 21: 20
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        crises are normal.

        Well, OK. Look, I didn't pull you by the tongue.
        Quote: atalef
        showed excellently - we have 70% of those vaccinated.
        The number of patients is decreasing day by day and from the initial 10000 per day is now in the region of 300.

        And half a million corpses are not counted in the United States? Or is there capitalism of the wrong system? You have good statistics, I looked.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 18 2021 00: 34
          -4
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          And half a million corpses are not counted in the United States? Or is there capitalism of the wrong system? You have good statistics, I looked

          I didn't understand something, but in socialist countries like the indicators are better?
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 April 18 2021 00: 42
            +2
            Read about the smallpox epidemic in Moscow 1959-1960. And compare with the trash that is happening with the coronavirus in 2019-2021. And this despite the fact that socialism in the USSR was not easy, to put it mildly. Other socio-economic relations dictate a different model of behavior during an epidemic.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock April 17 2021 09: 18
    +6
    Quote: atalef
    Capitalism in Europe

    So that one European burgher ate sweeter and slept softer, somewhere there several natives work for a bowl of rice.
    And we are now somewhere in the middle, but closer and closer to the level of the natives.
    Although not everyone eats their fill among the burghers, they complain about Bezos that the hard workers are not allowed to go to the toilet, and this is not somewhere in South America or in Africa, but quite in Europe.
    Do you think people work there out of sports interest?
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 09: 42
      -5
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      So that one European burgher ate sweeter and slept softer, somewhere there several natives work for a bowl of rice.

      And who works for your bowl?
      In general, equality has never been and never will be. people are not equal - there are smart, stupid, enterprising and lazy.
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Although the burghers also do not eat their fill, they complain to Bezos that hard workers are not allowed to go to the toilet, and this is not somewhere in South America or Africa, but quite itself in Europe.

      For that in Africa, they can relieve their natural needs where they want and when they want.
      But somehow I did not see that the Amazon workers were eager to go to Africa, everything was just the opposite - from Africa to Europe, where is it from?
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Do you think people work there out of sports interest?

      Not . we all work for money and yes ... oh horror. we are looking for a job with a large income and go there without remorse.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 April 17 2021 11: 14
    +10
    Why do you take Western capitalism as a standard, vacuuming the rest of the planet? Why not Bangladesh, Haiti, Ethiopia? Is capitalism there too? Or are you hoping to snuggle up to the vacuum cleaner too? No crap - all the seats were occupied back in the 19th century, no one is waiting for us there. We can only be vacuumed.
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 11: 19
      -7
      Quote: paul3390
      Why do you take Western capitalism as a standard, vacuuming the rest of the planet?

      vacuum cleaner? Due to this vacuum cleaner, you get 2/3 of the budget, or do they not pay you for oil?
      Quote: paul3390
      Why not Bangladesh, Haiti, Ethiopia?

      I don't live in ethiopia that way. but in a country of developed capitalism. Why do you take as an example the country where you live. do i owe ethiopia?
      Quote: paul3390
      Or are you hoping to snuggle up to the vacuum cleaner too? An hrenushki - all the places are occupied in the 19th century

      Seriously ? tell it to kuwait. Singapore. South Korea, Israel - where I have generally lived for the last 30 years.
      Quote: paul3390
      no one is waiting for us there. We can only be vacuumed.

      well, if you want so - it's your choice.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 April 17 2021 11: 27
        +6
        Due to this vacuum cleaner, you get 2/3 of the budget, or do they not pay you for oil?

        I get paid ??? Haven't you gotten anything wrong? And where does the budget go then? For the most part, it is plundered and exported to the West. So ordinary people - it's neither hot nor cold from the sale of resources - we get one hell of a crumb. For the Putin administration is essentially a banal colonial administration to dismantle the USSR and remove the remaining property.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 17 2021 20: 17
          -7
          Quote: paul3390
          I get paid ??? Haven't you gotten anything wrong? And where does the budget go then? For the most part, it is plundered and exported to the West.

          these are your problems - but the West pays for oil and gas, and if you steal everything there, these are your problems. You are stealing.
          Quote: paul3390
          So ordinary people - it's neither hot nor cold from the sale of resources - we get one hell of a crumb.

          this is the power that you have chosen
          Quote: paul3390
          For the Putin administration is essentially a banal colonial administration to dismantle the USSR and remove the remaining property.

          wink
          every nation is worthy of the government it chooses.
          West, what has to do with it? Does he make you love Putin?
      2. paul3390
        paul3390 April 17 2021 11: 51
        +7
        Israel - where I have generally lived for the last 30 years.

        Well - so you are part of the vacuum cleaner, why should you complain? Your nonecha our tops and make up, exporting everything to you .. Or do you seriously think that Israel-lives exclusively on its own? Yes, you would not be able to maintain even a dozen planes on your own!
        1. atalef
          atalef April 17 2021 20: 20
          -6
          Quote: paul3390
          Or do you seriously think that Israel-lives exclusively on its own?

          alas - but yes, on our own. also feeds you.
          Quote: paul3390
          Yes, you would not be able to maintain even a dozen planes on your own!

          learn the mat part.
          GDP volume 395 USD bln. 2019
          GDP Annual Growth Rate -0.4% Q4 / 20
          GDP growth rate 1.6% Q4 / 20
          GDP per capita USD 35293

          Russia / GDP per capita
          11 585,00 USD (2019)

          is there anything to compare?
  • tatra
    tatra April 17 2021 08: 22
    +3
    It is not necessary to blame the entire people for what the enemies of the communists did, who themselves admitted all this as their crimes against the country and the people, cowardly blaming the communists and responsibility for the destruction of the USSR and the CPSU, and for what they did to Russia and the Russian people.
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 08: 28
      -11%
      Quote: tatra
      Do not blame the whole people for what the enemies of the communists did

      Well, in general, the communists-the people and the enemies of the communists-it seems like the same people. Itam the people and there - the people. request
      Although you can blame Obama. laughing
      Quote: tatra
      who themselves admitted all this with their crimes against the country and people

      recognized 7 Who recognized what? Did they have a leader? Has he publicly repented?

      Quote: tatra
      cowardly blaming the communists and responsibility for the destruction of the USSR and the CPSU

      Well, of course, the Kosmunyaks were not at all in business, they were at that time in the field, mines, space and BAM - neither in the Army, nor in the KGB, nor in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, nor in the GRU, nor in the SOV Mine - there were no communists anywhere. laughing
      Quote: tatra
      and for what they have done with Russia and the Russian people.

      Who are they ? Aliens?
      1. tatra
        tatra April 17 2021 08: 35
        -2
        The enemies of the communists are those who captured the USSR, and for 30 years have been planting slander on the communists as the ideology and history of the country and the people on the territory of the USSR, justifying the crimes of external and internal enemies of the communists, praising Nicholas II, collaborators of the Civil and Great Patriotic War. And EVERY time they cowardly blame the Communist Bolsheviks for what they did THEMSELVES - starting with the Civil Revolution they unleashed after the October Revolution with the aim of capturing Russia by them, and including their seizure of the USSR, they themselves admit it as their crimes. And it doesn't matter what they pretended to be for the sake of profit under the communist rule.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 17 2021 09: 23
          -4
          Quote: tatra
          The enemies of the communists are those who captured the USSR, and for 30 years have been spreading slander against the communists on the territory of the USSR

          but why slander you? Tea was not lived 1000 years ago (communists) - we saw you alive and the general secretaries the same.
          The saints among you were only privates with flames in their eyes. The rest from the district committee and above - thieves - thieves
          Quote: tatra
          And it doesn't matter what they pretended to be for the sake of profit under the communist rule.

          so they ruled the commies, and then your commies of the USSR collapsed, and the commies in the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Ministry of Defense, OWL mines, etc. devoid of any opinion and who only know how to stretch their hands with a cry, we approve !!! and applause turning into prolonged ovations - the rank and file of the party. You and only you yourself are to blame - you presented yourself as the vanguard of the working class, but in fact you were the landsknechts of the party nomenklotura who had gotten sick. because of yours - the party is not mistaken - we ended up in the priest in the 90s and the USSR collapsed only because of you.
          Guiding and guiding force laughing - the country was profiled in 3 days.
          Balabol.
          And now look for someone to shove the responsibility off. Like I am not me and the horse is not mine.
          Obama described all the elevators.
          A disgrace.
          You do not even have the courage to take on the minimum responsibility to take for everything that you have done with the people in 73 years of your rule and the collapse of the USSR.

          1. tatra
            tatra April 17 2021 10: 20
            -8
            The enemies of the communists have proved themselves that they are not worthy to exist at all. You and NOTHING, either under Soviet power, or after the seizure and dismemberment of the USSR into your separate evil anti-Soviet-Russophobic States, did NOT do anything useful for your country and people, but what you DID, you cowardly whine in chorus that you are for this "nothing to do with it," that is, you yourself admit what you have done as your crimes. And now you have perfectly proved to your comments that under YOU Russia will continue to grow poorer, die out, and degrade. After all, you have nothing to do with this, then you should not do anything to change the country and the life of the people for the better.
        2. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock April 17 2021 09: 29
          +4
          Quote: tatra
          Enemies of the communists are those who captured the USSR, and for 30 years they have been imposing

          All these enemies you call were members of the CPSU, and in considerable positions, they told the people that they were communists. Actually, that is why the people supported the removal of these "communists" from power. Only all of a sudden, unexpectedly for naive, gullible people, at the head of the "enemies of the communists" the same faces were formed.
          From life - when my father's party organizer of the workshop agitated to join the party, the main argument sounded like this - if you get caught stealing, you will be jailed. And I’m just kicked out of the party.
          These are the "party organizers", do you think they are communists, or enemies of the communists?
  • skobars
    skobars April 17 2021 22: 08
    -2
    Well, let's say not the whole country, but mostly snickering Muscovites.
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx April 18 2021 10: 37
    -2
    Quote: Jacket in stock
    The second -
    What's the problem? People wanted it themselves.

    Here, after all, what an epidemic: people did not always support those and wanted what they wanted in Moscow. That is why a buffer has been created in Moscow. A kind of "safety cushion". Where the population is paid with "Moscow allowances" for loyalty. By the way, you have noticed that there are fewer enterprises, and, therefore, workers (not to be confused with workers) in the capital.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 17 2021 06: 18
    +10
    Congratulations!
    Now you are middle class.
    We don't know what to buy,
    To soak for a month ...
    Try to drink more ...
    Rosstat cannot be wrong ...
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 April 17 2021 07: 31
      +14
      Quote: Doccor18
      Rosstat cannot be wrong ..

      And Putin cannot lie ... bully
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 17 2021 07: 47
        +7
        That is how yes
        All state policy is based on this ...
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 April 17 2021 09: 21
        +12
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Putin can't lie

        Just crystal honest! Not a single case of lies !! Well, how else? This is the president of a great country, his portraits hang in every office. And they set him up as an example for children! Can you imagine that children are put as an example of a liar and a scoundrel?
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 April 17 2021 06: 28
    +2
    Can anything be changed? You can, but they don't want to. A subsidy can be introduced for baby products and clothing. For this, it is only necessary to make alcohol and tobacco state-owned. And the money received from the turnover can and should be spent on children. But this is all from the Soviet Union. And our guys so want to please the West. You turn on the TV, and you don't understand what country you live in. But according to the words, everything is very harsh.
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 08: 08
      -1
      Quote: nikvic46
      To do this, you just need to make alcohol and tobacco state-owned.

      Quote: nikvic46
      And our guys so want to please the West.

      it seems to me that the west is far away on the drum. whether Russia has a state monopoly on tobacco and alcohol or not. It's good to nod to the west - you are to blame for your problems and the leadership of the country CHOSEN BY YOU. request
      1. don-1500
        don-1500 April 17 2021 09: 44
        0
        Why highlight "YOUR CHOICE" so boldly? Even you, in your prosperous Israel, do not choose anyone.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 17 2021 10: 53
          +1
          Quote: don-1500
          Even you, in your prosperous Israel, do not choose anyone.

          choose.
          and oddly enough our elections are fair.
          request
          therefore, this time we came to the absurd situation that the creation of the government is in the hands of the Arab parties. request
  • parusnik
    parusnik April 17 2021 06: 43
    +6
    Statistics, knows everything, but says what is needed. laughing
    1. Baloo
      Baloo April 17 2021 08: 15
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      Statistics, knows everything, but says what is needed. laughing

      good drinks hi
  • igorra
    igorra April 17 2021 07: 26
    0
    I don’t understand why you whine, every time you vote for edrosov, communists, although what kind of communists they are, you lower the plinth, in short you draw such a life for yourself. Yes, for one pension reform, the United Russia should have been given a ride in the elections, and there is no need to talk about fraud. I got the power of the voice, I got it. But if they had not voted for them, they would have cheated, like Lukashenka, and the very fact of dishonest elections would have immediately become visible. And our sworn friends, with the help of local pyatokolonets, would not have been tempted to tell and show us. Do not think that Internet users represent a large percentage of the population. The people for the most part think a little differently, and even remember the "saints" of the 90s.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 April 17 2021 07: 36
      +12
      Quote: igorra
      The people for the most part think a little differently, and even remember the "saints" of the 90s.

      You know, but I think that life was more honest in the 90s. The truth could be found faster among the Bandos than in the current court.
      Everything was called its own things, if they threw you, then they threw you, now they are wringing out according to the law. The chances will rise were real, now they are not.
    2. tatra
      tatra April 17 2021 08: 26
      -10%
      You are a person with the mentality of the enemies of the communists, who are only capable of being angry AGAINST, never offering your best alternative.
      1. atalef
        atalef April 17 2021 09: 30
        -7
        Quote: tatra
        never offering their best alternative.

        What is your alternative?
        How is it in Cuba or North Korea?
        Or maybe Venezuela.
        All you can offer - it will only get worse, and who will follow you?
        no fools.
        1. tatra
          tatra April 17 2021 10: 12
          -9
          Even a stupid person in my avatar is able to understand what my alternative to power and the system of the enemies of the communists is. And you did not refute my words about YOU, but in the cowardly manner of the enemies of the communists, you answered on the principle of "yourself."
          1. atalef
            atalef April 17 2021 10: 25
            -5
            Quote: tatra
            Even a stupid person in my avatar is able to understand what is my alternative to power and the system of the enemies of the communists

            USSR alternative?
            You are clearly a communist laughing
            there is no country. not building. and the head of the party in the church lights candles - an alternative laughing
            Quote: tatra
            And you have not refuted my words about YOU

            What exactly ?
            I have nothing to refute or confirm. Communists are enemies of Russia.
            Without them, Russia would be the greatest country in the world.
            Quote: tatra
            the cowardly manner of the enemies of the communists was answered on the principle of "self".

            cowardly? Are you having trouble reading comprehension? in my opinion, I clearly spoke about both the commies and their system.
            1. tatra
              tatra April 17 2021 10: 37
              -8
              Let's check if you have a BEST alternative to the USSR for Russia and the Russian people, or AGAIN just stupid malice AGAINST. What kind of power is better for you for Russia and its people - the Romanovs or your Yeltsin-Putin power, which System is better - capitalism before the October Revolution or capitalism after 1991 is better for you than socialism for Russia and its people. I need your answer FOR the power and the System for Russia and the Russian people.
              1. atalef
                atalef April 17 2021 11: 04
                -4
                Quote: tatra
                Let's check if you have a BEST alternative to the USSR for Russia and the Russian people

                capitalism, of course.
                Quote: tatra
                Which government is best for you for Russia and its people

                every nation is worthy of the power that it chooses.
                Quote: tatra
                Which System is better - capitalism before the October Revolution or capitalism after 1991 is better for you than socialism. for Russia and its people

                and why did not you remember Kievan Rus?
                Capitalism yes 1917 - not relevant, but what you have now - oligachic capitalism is carried out by the people you have chosen.
                Quote: tatra
                I need your answer FOR the power and the System for Russia and the Russian people.

                capitalism.
                In socialism, there were already commies - a priest.
                1. tatra
                  tatra April 17 2021 11: 08
                  -4
                  And now PROVE that capitalism on the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR is BETTER both in the development of the country and for the majority of the people than socialism in the USSR was. And without verbiage, and no need to quote me, I remember what I wrote. And you did not answer the question - what kind of power for Russia and the Russian people is better than the Soviet one - the Romanovs or your Yeltsin-Putin power, which you, the enemies of the Soviet power, IMPOSED on Russia and the Russian people in 1991.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef April 17 2021 20: 22
                    -7
                    Quote: tatra
                    And now PROVE that capitalism on the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR is BETTER both in the development of the country and for the majority of the people than socialism in the USSR was.

                    Yes, I'm not going to prove - we were already in this social. pope.
  • pitr_74
    pitr_74 April 17 2021 07: 59
    +9
    In the Russian Federation, not capitalism, at least not capitalism in its now generally accepted sense. All capital countries have a progressive scale of taxation on personal income and over incomes are taxed up to 70%. For example, Depardieu fled here from such a tax. And this money then goes to support the poor, social programs, etc. This is how society evens out the standard of living of its citizens. Remember one of the first initiatives of the regime - the introduction of a flat scale of taxation and the abolition of the progression from the EBN, this is not accidental. Now they pay only 13% of their lards, clearing this money.
    And the low standard of living here is a goal, not a consequence. In a resource-based economy, especially for a totalitarian state, this is a completely logical step for the elite. Budget revenues are finite and do not depend on domestic consumption, that is, the standard of living in the country. And sharing them for them is bad manners.
    The poorer the people, the richer they are, the principle of big milking or serfdom, whoever likes it more ..
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 11: 06
      -4
      Quote: pitr_74
      In the Russian Federation, not capitalism, at least not capitalism in its now generally accepted sense. All capital countries have a progressive scale of taxation on personal income and over incomes are taxed up to 70%.

      sad
      50% of salary goes to taxes - damned capitalists laughing
    2. Postum
      Postum April 17 2021 14: 52
      +4
      Progressive already under "comrade" Putin was canceled
      1. pitr_74
        pitr_74 April 17 2021 17: 49
        +4
        Introduced the progressive EBN, I still managed to pay 99% of personal income tax for six months in 30, and canceled the GDP already in 2001.
        1. Postum
          Postum April 17 2021 18: 33
          0
          So yes, but minusers are unaware, even though the law is read http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/0001202011230015?index=0&rangeSize=1
  • Dynamic systems
    Dynamic systems April 17 2021 08: 04
    +11
    At enterprises, even state or budgetary ones, they have cut and cut staff. hi
    Not those who are rooted .. poop in the chair wassat and who works. soldier
    One example: On coastal shift vessels, ship cooks were laid off ... fool
    1 - They demand that the captain, by his order, appoint a "person for cooking and heating food" ... crying
    2 - Defective mAnagers wassat they called the galley - the place for warming up the food .... In how.
    Those. put a bolt on all sorts of orders, rules and orders.
    Second example: On shift ships, the captain and shift mate are on watch on the bridge.
    So it turns out 6 hours - in 6 hours, and that 12 per day. And in the report card, the Human Resources Department forces you to exhibit 10 hours a day and EVERYTHING.
    Question: Who TIRITS BABKI, if the workers do not receive additional payments for service and other replacement am
    1. parusnik
      parusnik April 17 2021 08: 19
      +6
      hi good But life is getting better, according to Rosstat smile What you wrote is painfully familiar, and I work in the same industry.
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock April 17 2021 09: 34
      +1
      Quote: Dynamic Systems
      Human Resources Department forces

      As long as there are those willing to surrender to slavery, so it will be.
  • efendia
    efendia April 17 2021 08: 17
    +6
    Again, instead of real work, they changed the calculation method and all business, as usual, one chatter instead of real business.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 17 2021 08: 34
    +6
    Apparently, neither he, nor his advisers and assistants have yet decided how to determine the poverty level now, and what will be the main features of the new criterion and its differences from the previous approach to the definition of poverty.
    They used to say: "What do you call a yacht, so it will float!" Now calling and speaking is the "prerogative" of the government (the ruling regime)! In general, there are people in the country who, in the words of one singer-bard, are always ready to explain "sensibly" why people in the country live "sloppy"!
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo April 17 2021 08: 39
    +6
    "If you don't want to live in poverty, don't live" ©
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 17 2021 14: 53
      +4
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      "If you don't want to live in poverty - don't live"

      What ... right to the cemetery? belay
  • tatra
    tatra April 17 2021 08: 44
    -7
    Slandering the communists from the enemies of the communists is not only their only justification for their capture of the RSFSR / Russia in 30 years, but also an excuse not to do anything useful for Russia and its people, not to correct what the enemies of the communists have done with the country and people. So, in 2012, Putin, in his speech on galoshes, blamed the Soviet communists for the economy created by the enemies of the communists in 20 years. And how good it is, there is no need to try to make the economy better, because the enemies of the communists have nothing to do with it, it's all the communists are to blame. Or as soon as the news of beatings, torture in places of detention, the enemies of the communists immediately dump the blame on the NKVD, and then they do not need to correct anything either, because it is the Chekists who are to blame.
  • apro
    apro April 17 2021 08: 55
    -3
    Social inequality remains one of the key problems of Russian society. 

    This is not a problem; it is the foundation of the Russian bourgeois state.
    1. tatra
      tatra April 17 2021 10: 24
      -5
      This is the basis of the SYSTEM of the enemies of the communists, for the sake of which they captured the USSR, initially not intending to do anything useful for their country and people, but only wanted to enrich themselves at the expense of the country and the people. Therefore, for 30 years they have categorically refused to take responsibility for their seizure of the USSR, because they seized it for criminal purposes - to the detriment of the country and the people.
      1. atalef
        atalef April 17 2021 10: 47
        -4
        Quote: tatra
        This is the basis of the SYSTEM of the enemies of the communists, for the sake of which they captured the USSR

        who captured the USSR? You and captured
        Quote: tatra
        , initially not intending to do anything useful for their country and people, but only wanted to get rich


        Quote: tatra
        ... Therefore, for 30 years they have categorically refused to take responsibility for their seizure of the USSR.

        no USSR - you commies and ruined it
        Yeltsin, Shushkevich. kravchuk. Nazarbayev - all commies as one.
        1. tatra
          tatra April 17 2021 10: 54
          -8
          Ha, that's right, this is the 30-year-old ideology of the enemies of the communists and the Yeltsin-Putin government IMPOSED by them on Russia and the Russian people, including Putin with his "galoshes", "Lenin's bomb", "the Bolsheviks destroyed their party." But the enemies of the communists have everything to do with the implantation of evil anti-Sovietism as the ideology and history of Russia by them, starting with Perestroika, to the fact that they GOT their large, huge, colossal, compared to the Russian people, salaries and incomes, they believe, that they have every right to destroy everything Soviet, and to plant their own anti-Soviet, to erect monuments to their "heroes" Kolchak, Krasnov, Slashchev, Solzhenitsyn and others.
          1. atalef
            atalef April 17 2021 10: 58
            -7
            Quote: tatra
            destroy everything Soviet, and impose their own anti-Soviet

            forget and drink some water. The USSR is not dead.
            The dead cannot die.
            1. tatra
              tatra April 17 2021 11: 09
              -9
              Is it possible about reality, and not anti-Soviet nonsense?
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 17 2021 15: 01
      0
      Quote: apro
      Social inequality remains one of the key problems of Russian society.

  • vanavatny
    vanavatny April 17 2021 09: 24
    +1
    hypocritical bestiality
    1. atalef
      atalef April 17 2021 10: 59
      -3
      Quote: vanavate
      hypocritical bestiality

      that's for sure, koomunyaki pros..or a country, but they blame others good
      1. xorek
        xorek April 17 2021 13: 24
        0
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: vanavate
        hypocritical bestiality

        that's for sure, koomunyaki pros..or a country, but they blame others good

        And you blame them all, just to pzdnut in the direction of Russia, right?
        1. sniperino
          sniperino April 17 2021 14: 37
          -1
          Quote: xorek
          And you blame them all, just to pzdut in the direction of Russia
          How can this be written. The Zionists do not go here to emit intestinal gases. They are here drowning for the freedom of the people, along with the ukrovoyens, the sorosets and other Putin fighters; Well this is understandable.
      2. Antidote
        Antidote April 17 2021 14: 10
        -2
        Pros..li country is a self-excluded population. They are only to blame for not going to the polls and not defending their rights. Now, standing up is equated with extremism. Have arrived, eat.
      3. vanavatny
        vanavatny April 17 2021 15: 01
        +2
        I'm not talking about your intense dialogue ... although this is the motto of the government for a very long time, I know, I remember how I waited in my childhood: America's Europe is about to rot, here again there is only hope for this, the rest is poor agitprop
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 17 2021 09: 39
    +6
    Yes, it is clear that both are lying.
    As an example: our pay is frozen at work. For friends working for ........, the salary is reduced by a third (glonass),
    The worst case - 15 thousand in January and there is no money yet.
    The military did not have time to conclude a contract ...
  • Esaul
    Esaul April 17 2021 09: 41
    +10
    It's simple, why has the number of poor people decreased? Because many of them have become beggars.
    1. Malyuta
      Malyuta April 17 2021 14: 18
      +3
      Quote: Esaul
      It's simple, why has the number of poor people decreased?

      Many simply died.
  • Maxxcc
    Maxxcc April 17 2021 12: 17
    -1
    Median income of the population)))))
    It's like the average temperature in the hospital is 36.6
  • xorek
    xorek April 17 2021 13: 22
    0
    Well, the whiners immediately got together ... laughing
    In the USSR, I also remember the dissidents whining and the pension is small and there is no freedom of speech ... The 90s came Sharply everyone fell silent and piled over the hill and began to whine again))))
    What you need ? Destruction of Russia? Just say so bluntly, as your Chubais blurted out .. Otherwise, everyone, like, about the Russian people, is going through pouring mud at them and praising the United States and other Anglo-Saxon regimes, how well they live there, due to the robbery of Russia, including other countries of the world ..
    Now Russia has fat and howling, it has even more risen according to the pattern of "bloody regime, violation of the rights of thieves and other bloggers" .. Well, as always, the same thing negative
    We will still remember all this for you liberda ..
    1. Asad
      Asad April 17 2021 14: 00
      +4
      I envy you! You are such an optimist! I wonder what kind of pension you are counting on, or are you already receiving? And you didn't answer the question from another thread, which products have dropped in price? And by the way, VVP said that he librated! How about him, too, remember?
  • Postum
    Postum April 17 2021 14: 45
    +5
    It has long been clear that the current liberal-kegebist regime of Putin does not need rich and not even poor Russians. For the more independent and wealthy people in the state, the sooner they will begin to demand their rights, and most importantly, money (which Putin's current associates are withdrawing like gigantic sums, this year alone they have already managed to withdraw 11.8 billion dollars https: // kapital- rus.ru/articles/article/vyvoz_milliardov_dollarov_iz_rossii_s_nachala_goda_zafiksiroval_centrobank/, for that year about 50 billion). The authorities have long adhered to the principle: Russians do not need money, which is why Putin brings in new migrants without closing borders or introducing a visa regime.
    The only thing that the Gestapocrates can do is tighten the screws on society even more, to plant more and more people. They have already lost youth, now they will lose a generation older
    Meanwhile, prices are breaking records again, seen today in the Top Five

  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK April 17 2021 15: 50
    +1
    We found a specialist to listen to! Kudrin is as much an economist as a ballerina! He did not do good for Russia!
  • kig
    kig April 17 2021 16: 00
    +4
    It's all about the criteria ... Several years ago, for example, a new GOST on highways was adopted, where "pit" was called damage to the road surface of a completely different size than in the previous GOST. Thus, the condition of the roads improved significantly (statistically) literally the next day.
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 April 17 2021 16: 30
    +6
    The article was written by a relevant ministry and a paid author .. Link- "Although the agricultural industry expects that the rise in prices for pork and poultry meat will lead to an increase in beef consumption" - how can this be if the COST of beef is 40% higher than pork and 160% above the bird .... Uniform mockery and mockery of people ..
  • Vsevolod136
    Vsevolod136 April 17 2021 16: 38
    +4
    Quote: Author
    But Alexey Kudrin does not disclose details about the new criterion.


    Well, why does not he reveal, here is the characteristic fat rushing of the pseudo-liberal Kudrin:
    “We believe that this order allows for the definition of poverty. It is quite rational to measure the level of poverty. That he does not correlate at any moment in real time with the consumer basket, is not a major drawback»

    that is, mister kudrin believes that the separation of the subsistence minimum from the prices in the store is normal, it is a minor drawback.
  • ximkim
    ximkim April 17 2021 19: 54
    0

    According to the ministry, in 2020, only 13,5 million people had incomes below the subsistence level - 9,2% of Russians. The number of people with incomes below the average level decreased in 6 months of 2020 to 17,8 million people - by 12%.

    wassat
    What is this?
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr April 17 2021 20: 42
    +4
    This is the main problem of Russia: the butter on the sandwich needs to be spread more evenly, and not the way it is now.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 17 2021 23: 08
    0
    Quote: silverura
    Outwardly, I live quite well, but I haven't been able to buy new sneakers for myself for three months. I am saving up for vacation in Crimea by car. Either sneakers or vacation.

    Yes, "brothers" knocked us down. Who would have thought! Well, nothing - "Crimea is ours", after this it is not a sin to go barefoot.

    This is a small illustration to the question - whose is Crimea? hihttps://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/03/20/krym-ikh?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK April 18 2021 03: 49
    -3
    There are many more beggars in the United States than in Russia! Look at happy Sweden! How much does it spend on defense! And if Russia is given up to the size of Sweden? That will be the happiest country!
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx April 18 2021 11: 19
      +3
      Poverty in Russia: Rosstat talks about its decline, and Kudrin - about new criteria for its definition, which at the same time are unknown to anyone

      Here is the new data on the poverty criteria (from 1:00:02)
    2. VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
      VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 3 May 2021 14: 20
      0
      Minuses were put by those who know nothing in politics and life! To be honest, the United States is many times poorer than Russia!
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 18 2021 17: 42
    0
    Quote: ximkim

    According to the ministry, in 2020, only 13,5 million people had incomes below the subsistence level - 9,2% of Russians. The number of people with incomes below the average level decreased in 6 months of 2020 to 17,8 million people - by 12%.

    wassat
    What is this?

    Probably that's what -
  • Alexey Polyakh
    Alexey Polyakh April 18 2021 20: 43
    -5
    MORTGAGE robbery !!! And, in general, CREDIT !!! This is the reason for poverty
  • m.voron
    m.voron April 20 2021 14: 31
    0
    "sanctions imposed against our country" - do not understand? As far as I remember, the sanctions were beneficial, just like the import substitution of enemy goods for Belarusian shrimps, oranges, bananas, parmesan, etc., the Iskanders are still laughing. In general, a provocative article "Hurray for our Crimea."