"It becomes an easy target for a sniper": the difference between the shooting from the AGS of the Polish and American military was noted

The Polish Ministry of Defense announces joint Polish-American military training. In the course of the field exit, the skills of using automatic easel-type grenade launchers (AGS) and mortars, standard armored vehicles were practiced.

In particular, firing was carried out from a modification of the AGS Mk19, which are in service with both the US and Polish armies.

The trainings were held in the format of the so-called multinational command "North-East", which includes the servicemen of the Polish Giцycka 15th brigade. It should be recalled that recently, American servicemen, up to a brigade, have been on Polish territory on a permanent basis. The change of personnel is carried out in a rotation format.

Attention was drawn to the preparation of positions for the implementation of live shooting and the difference from the shooting by the Polish and American military personnel. The positions were set up in sandy-clay soil. The grenade launcher had to be placed in a kneeling position so that his upper body (and head) was behind the heavy grenade launcher.

The Polish military carefully observed the "regulations" for staying in position and fired from a prepared "shelter".

When the turn came to the shooting by the American partners, the serviceman decided to get out of the position and settled down directly behind the ACS, not particularly caring that in this form it became clearly more vulnerable to the enemy.

This shooting was criticized, noting that "out of position grenade launcher becomes an easy target for a sniper."

Comments

[hagen]

When the turn came to the shooting by the American partners, the serviceman decided to get out of the position and settled down directly behind the ACS, not particularly caring that in this form it became clearly more vulnerable to the enemy.

American partners do not take positions when someone can shoot back. They have NATO "allies" for such cases, for example Poles or various Latvians and Lithuanians. Here, too, Georgians and Ukrainians simply rush to the fired positions in order to prove their loyalty to the principles of "advancing democracy". Why would an American partner squirm in a damp trench?

[figwam]

There is no experience of fighting against a serious and equal opponent, therefore such self-confidence.

[barclay]

It's not so much a lack of experience as bravado. It's just that the Americans are accustomed to lying on everyone in Europe with their regulations, especially on the belts, who are struggling to become a "beloved American wife."

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: barclay

It's just that the Americans are used to lying

In Russian, it is correct not to "lay down", but to "lay", well. or "put"

[barclay]

I agree with your letter. “To lie” in the sense of “to put.” But the meaning is the same.

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: barclay

I agree with your letter. “To lie” in the sense of “to put.” But the meaning is the same.

Nearly. It's like - Mikhail Bogdanovich and Michael Andreas!

[Russobel]

Totally agree with you.
And it is not important to lay down or lay down at all.
Who needs to understand ...
And do not look for a speck in someone else's eye.

[Normal ok]

Quote: Hagen

When the turn came to the shooting by the American partners, the serviceman decided to get out of the position and settled down directly behind the ACS, not particularly caring that in this form it became clearly more vulnerable to the enemy.

American partners do not take positions when someone can shoot back. They have NATO "allies" for such cases, for example Poles or various Latvians and Lithuanians. Here, too, Georgians and Ukrainians simply rush to the fired positions in order to prove their loyalty to the principles of "advancing democracy". Why would an American partner squirm in a damp trench?

To be honest, it happens in different ways. Everybody messes up from time to time. Somehow, the 2C1 division almost (thank God) covered its KNP. The shells fell 70-100m from the observers. So, it is wrong to draw conclusions based on one publication.

[hagen]

Quote: Normal ok

To be honest, it happens in different ways.

I agree, it happens. But I also do not pretend to be doctrinal ...

[Lech from Android.]

The Polish military carefully observed the "regulations" for staying in position and fired from a prepared "shelter".

A volley from a mortar battery will quickly reset this position ... here the main thing is to get out in time after the shooting.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Lech from Android.

A volley from a mortar battery will quickly reset this position ... here the main thing is to get out in time after the shooting.

The Americans are not preparing at all for contact battles. What for? They are quite well-to-do civil servants. There is a sea of ​​those who want to substitute their ... for green candy wrappers who will print as much as necessary ...

[syndicalist]

7 years later, and strangers ... will not be needed. The relationship will be resolved exclusively between drones. And even later, there will be no need to shoot at all - the programs of the opponents will exchange their moves and find out the winner without physical contact.

[your1970]

Quote: syndicalist

7 years later, and strangers ... will not be needed. The relationship will be resolved exclusively between drones. And even later, there will be no need to shoot at all - the programs of the opponents will exchange their moves and find out the winner without physical contact.

Douay said the same thing in his time - later it turned out that the infantry still had to have its legs ...

[Artem76]

Yeah, at the world chess tournament in the world chess capital Vasyuki ... The essence of the war is not finding out who is cooler, stronger, or who has such and such a technique, in general, it is not just to understand who is stronger, but in that , in order to physically eliminate or subjugate to their will, and make them work for a crust of bread for themselves.

[syndicalist]

No one will start a war first, knowing in advance that they will lose. Now there is no 100% certainty about this, so everyone hopes to win before the start of the war. When the war becomes the prerogative of exclusively drones and programs, then the outcome is easily calculated by the parties and the meaning of starting hostilities disappears.

[Artem76]

I cannot agree with you that the outcome is easily calculated, with a + - equal rival, it is not possible to calculate ... only to estimate approximate, but without taking into account the huge number of influencing facts (raw materials base, economy, production, change of leadership and generals, yes the weather is damn it, and I'm already silent about the fighting spirit and mood, and just luck and chance and those factors that you might not foresee).

[syndicalist]

Future wars will be very short-lived, so the raw material base, economy, production will not play any role. Current state only. The morale of the drones can also be ignored. No secrets in the information world will be possible either. Therefore, if the conflict becomes insoluble, then the general staff programs of the opponents will simply exchange their scenarios, which will not make sense to test in practice. One of the parties will have to admit defeat and surrender to the mercy of the winner.

[romandostalo]

My dear, have you read a lot of science fiction?

[Artem76]

I would not like to persuade you, everyone has the right to an opinion ... So for your information, there have been many such utopian ideas and postulates in history: the First World War - before it began, no one believed that it was possible, due to the global involvement of finance of all the countries of Europe and other countries and colonies, and for the most part London was considered the financial capital at that time ... No one believed that after the nightmares of WWII Europe would again untie WWII, how it all ended, everyone knows ... in addition, under Khrushchev N. FROM. they also began to bend in the direction of missiles, and guns were removed from military aircraft, but real practice, and not ideas and calculations, showed the wrong decisions ... Hitler and his pack of generals ... and ECONOMISTS !, by the way, before the war also did a global analysis of the upcoming operations, in particular, not only the course of military operations itself, but also an assessment of the country's economic, production, and resource potential, which at that time for the most part were all concentrated just in the western part of our Motherland, which was planned to be captured, to deprive the potential and, ... then you know yourself. So the calculations on the board are nothing more than a degree of probability, and no drones, which are also far from a panacea, will make the weather. And in the end, the Commander-in-Chief will make it clear that in the event of a serious threat, they will also hit the decision-making centers ... the drones will definitely not help there.

Headquarters exercises on maps are needed only in order to check the combat readiness of officers, to find weak and strong sides in oneself and the alleged enemy, to at least somehow assess the applicability of new types of weapons in war. After that, the analysis is done, and the work on the errors. But this will not scare you. Poland held the exercises, although they shed tears, but they did not run to us in captivity to surrender to the mercy of the winner, albeit a virtual one ...

[syndicalist]

You all speak correctly. But from the standpoint of today. I mean the wars of the future, perhaps not as distant as many think. Speaking about them, it seems to me immutable that a person is already the weakest link in weapons systems. In the near future, robots (or drones) will perform all of its functions much more successfully and reliably. Perhaps a person will retain the function of developing a general strategy, but I see no reason why, over time, this function would not go to machines. It also seems obvious to me the formation of a global information environment in which any secrets or secrets will be simply impossible. We see its beginnings already now. And finally, the creation of a full-fledged artificial intelligence. Not as a human helper or slave, but as an equal companion, capable of independently working out the goals of its development and independently achieving them. Yes, it seems fantastic, but to many science fiction writers of the last century, many of today's familiar things seemed unattainable in principle. It will be the same with the above-mentioned things. From a certain point, development in this area will become explosive, much faster than what happened with the introduction of mobile communications and the Internet.

[militarist63]

A volley of a mortar battery will quickly reset this position ... here the main thing is to get out in time after firing

Buratinka and his son Solntsepok will do even better!

[nonsense]

here, I have always said that the AGS (17) does not meet the conditions of infantry combat. Only placement on armored vehicles! Well, or in universal firing structures of the "Gorchak" type. And in the field of arrows from it - a corpse.

[Runway]

If the calculation and direct - fools, then yes, live not long. AGS is a normal machine.

[Growlers]

Even if it shoots from closed firing positions? Do not repeat other people's nonsense

[nonsense]

if you wanted to shoot from closed positions, then you would use mortars... They are simpler, lighter, cheaper, more powerful and more lethal.
https://yandex.ru/images/search?from=tabbar&text=стрельба%20из%20агс-17%20пламя
and here are pictures with practice shooting - what to call this pose for shooters from the AG? - Corpse pose? This is exactly what they are taught ...

[Growlers]

Dear, in war, the commander of a motorized rifle company (platoon) does not always have a mortar battery on hand, it usually works in the interests of the battalion. Here AGSu has no price, especially in the mountains. The trouble is that not everyone knows this technique. And it is not always possible to fight "on armor".

[militarist63]

in war, the commander of a motorized rifle company (platoon) does not always have a mortar battery on hand; it usually works in the interests of the battalion. Here AGSu has no price, especially in the mountains

Nuuu, by and large, the commander of a motorized rifle company (platoon), with the same success, does not always have at hand a grenade launcher (machine gun and grenade launcher platoon), where these AGSs "live" ... As a rule, a grenade launcher (machine gun and grenade launcher) The platoon, similarly to the Ministry of Battalion, works in the interests of the battalion ... In Afghanistan, we made changes to the OShS of motorized rifle battalions. There, each MSR had its own machine-gun and grenade launcher (4th platoon of the company). But again, for example, the commander of the 1st MCV AGS also did not have it at hand. And he had it only when the company commander allocated him ... In the same place (in Afghanistan), paratrooper and airborne assault companies also had their own mortar platoons (in addition to the fact that there was a full-time minbatr in the regiment and dsh battalions too) .. But all this was only in the OShS of units of the 40th OA in the vastness of Afghanistan, in the battalions of the other SMEs (PDP, Dshbr) of the USSR Armed Forces there was nothing like that! ...
But what the commander of a motorized rifle company (platoon) always has at hand in war is the GP-25. There was a case in our regiment when the spirits seized a remote post of one guard post ... We deployed the DShK located there and began to bludgeon the position of the post - you can't get out of the shelters! .. What to do? And they began, sitting in the trenches, from the grenade launchers (like from mortars) to shoot in the direction of the remote post with VOGami - the spirits retreated ...

[Growlers]

You are engaged in demagoguery ...... In Afghanistan, I had a tank platoon, a mortar platoon and a bunch of other small "trash" in my company. And in fact, to resolve the issue with the company commander who is closer and more understandable to the aspirations of HIS platoon commander, who usually performs his company tasks. As for the GP-25, the thing is undoubtedly necessary, but the grenade launcher is good for short-range collisions. And if the commander brought it to this, then his price is penny

[senima56]

I fully support it! If AGS-30 is quite "controllable", then you can't say the same about AGS-17 - it jumps like mad! Moreover, in the troops only the 17th is visible! And now the 40-mm "Balkan" is on its way, so that one already has a seat for the shooter, but he still jumps like a goat! I watched a video of shooting from it. It is necessary to solve the problem of "jumping"! After all, they were able to do it on the AGS-30, moreover, with half the weight!

[riwas]

It is necessary to solve the problem of "jumping"!

You can use, by analogy with artillery systems, a hydraulic brake, as in the 40 mm Swedish-German Striker / CG-40 grenade launcher, which made it possible to reduce the recoil force when fired by 60%.

[Klingon]

do not want to redo, they will say that the hydraulic brake will make the structure at times heavier, so the shooter will have to pacify the grenade launcher like in a rodeo

[nonsense]

EMNIP in AGS-17 this same hydraulic brake is present. By adding and pouring kerosene, the rate of fire can be adjusted. Does not help.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: nespich

here, I always said that the AGS (17) does not meet the conditions of infantry combat

The fact that from a closed position of the AGS can be used not in the know, or what? Damn talker.

[Terrible_L.]

When the turn came to the shooting by the American partners, the soldier decided to get out of the position and settled down directly behind the ACS, not particularly caring that in this form it became clearly more vulnerable to the enemy

gouging everywhere

[tralflot1832]

And that the Americans can, in theory, fight when there is no support for the air cavalry. Don't say the principle: A soldier can die for his homeland, but if he is an enemy soldier or an ally! A good principle.

[John22]

They are heroes in the exercises. No enemy.

[mojohed2012]

Have fun. Obviously at a Polish expense. Who else paid for the shots and the organization of the event if not the Poles. The United States, starting with Trump, wants allies to pay for everything.
And the posing of the bearer of democracy in barbarian Poland behind a grenade launcher from communist Russia is condescension to the local aborigines, they say, and we can portray it like you.
Naturally, in a real clash, the opposite will be true:
- Polish grenade launchers will lie down and will not stick their heads out praying to Catholic saints, while the bearers of democracy will urinate deep in the rear on flowerbeds in city centers, litter and "put these insolent barbarians in their place" in different ways, for example, beat a Pole, pester a Polish girl and etc.

[Roma 1977]

The photo shows an American grenade launcher, not a Soviet one. In the article, he was named AGS not by the brand of the Soviet AGS, but by its abbreviation.

[Avior]

judging by the photo, the American does not shoot, but checks the firing sector in front of the position equipment. The position is not yet equipped, the two sticks supporting the front wall board are not hammered in, the board itself is not yet there, the shovel sticks out, a lot of people behind, which should not be there when shooting.
a pole at this angle to the target would also have crawled out to the side, by the way

[Glory1974]

actually a message from the Polish Ministry of Defense. Don't you trust them?

[Avior]

Message from an anonymous author VO. And there is no reference to the "message from the Polish Ministry of Defense".

[Olddetractor]

The thieving servant giggling at the owners, how to trust them?

[iouris]

Wow, how some worry about the American military ...

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Without the Americans, the Polish "army" cannot even shoot from the AGS. Gentlemen and Papuans still remained in Europe.

[cniza]

This shooting was criticized, noting that “a grenade launcher out of position becomes an easy target for a sniper ».

They are "exceptional" nothing takes them ...

[Silinvv]

They have interesting helmets with a cutout for the earpiece. I would like to know the name of the developer and send him to Syria in this helmet. Not only does this Kevlar helmet break through 7,62 through, but half of the head is also exposed. The earphone will not save you from the splinter.

[infantryman2020]

1) the widespread fashion in the west for protective helmets with cutouts for earmuffs - yes, it's debatable. But active "ears" are also very useful in combat - too many risks will lead to hearing loss. So, you need to combine (for example, low-profile headphones);
2) well, the experience of armed conflicts in the same Americans is more than ours;
3) their armor resistance and ours are almost the same. At the same time, the ergonomics of the American mass-produced helmet is higher than ours due to a more advanced under-body device.

[kotdavin4i]

Quote: Silinvv

and send him to Syria in this helmet

How would that be - the forces of the MTR of Russia in Syria ..

[safar gafarov]

This stupid Amerzian is sure that when he appears on the battlefield, all opponents will start scattering in fear in different directions and he will only have to shoot those fleeing in the back .. natural stupid Amerzian eshak

[komandir8]

They probably do not have an appendix in the manual for the automatic grenade launcher, which indicates the order, size and time of opening a trench for an automatic grenade launcher on the machine. When setting up trenches in soft soils, it is necessary to provide for clothes of steep sites for installing a grenade launcher from poles or other materials.
Although the MK-19 grenade launcher is an excellent means of fire support for motorized infantry units. According to official statistics, more ammunition was fired from the Mk 19 than from all 7,62 mm machine guns, with the average number of shots per delay was about 3000, and the average number of shots between major breakdowns was 10.

[TatarinSSSR]

I think this is just the desire of the American military to shoot more accurately during exercises, which is why I got out so openly. It's more convenient, the goal is better visible. In a real battle, most likely he would not stick out so much, realizing that otherwise he would be blown off his head.

[svp67]

The AGS is good because it can conduct hinged fire, and for direct fire, it is better to use a large-caliber machine gun.

[Glen Miller]

Enlighten the layman. When Amer got in all - it's good for the sniper. And when in the last photo they both stick out to the waist from the trench, is that bad for a sniper? Need to wait until they substitute tukhes?

[Tramp]

Yes, we need more snipers so that they don't stick their nose out. There are so many targets.