Military Review

They made the "Miracle on the Vistula"

243

One cannot but pay tribute to the creator of the new Poland, Jozef Pilsudski - he knew how to select subordinates. Three of them, together with the "brigadier" and "head of state", became the authors of one of the brilliant, but very unexpected for them, victory in the final operation of the Soviet-Polish war of 1920 ("Miracle on the Vistula").


They made the "Miracle on the Vistula"

Edward Rydz-Smigly


A native of Galicia, the son of a sergeant of the Austro-Hungarian army from the provincial Brezhan, an orphan from the age of 8, he lived not the longest, but an amazing life. He was only 22 years old when he joined the militant organization of the socialists of Pilsudski. And at 50, Edward Rydz-Smigly became a marshal and the Polish commander-in-chief.


Even outwardly, the youngest of Pilsudski's friends, by the time he was matured, had changed almost beyond recognition. Instead of a brave shooter with graceful mustache, a brutal warrior is looking at us from later photos - a commander, behind whom there is only victory and glory.


The nickname Smigly, which means nimble, dexterous, and at the same time - a redhead, he, apparently, received a reason in his youth and made her his second surname. The circumstances of his death, after being demoted to corporal and sentenced to death by President Sikorsky, are still shrouded in mystery.

Many are ready to almost pray for this officially recognized successor of Pilsudski, but most ruthlessly criticize Rydz for 1939. However, in 1920 he showed himself to be a true hero.

It was the Middle Front of Rydza-Smigly that included three divisions that attacked from the banks of the Vepsh into the flank and rear of Tukhachevsky. It was Rydza's front that almost surrounded the First Horse Cavalry and prevented the fall of Lvov, which could well become a turning point in the whole war. Therefore, Rydz's appointment to a high post in the new Polish army was entirely justified.

He still served in the Habsburg army, participated in the world war as part of the legions. Completed all battles and all command posts. By the time independence was returned to his homeland, Rydz was a brigade general and commandant of the Polish military organization, the forerunner of the army. Pilsudski, taking the leadership of the new Commonwealth into his own hands, immediately gave the post of Minister of War to Rydzu.

At least such an episode testifies to Rydz's tough and intolerant character. When the First Cavalry Army in the spring of 1920 went on a raid on the Polish rear, the Third Army left Kiev, and its commander Edward Rydz-Smigly personally gave the order to finally blow up a unique engineering structure - the Nikolaev chain bridge.

In the battle on the Vistula, Rydz-Smigly made full use of the fact that Tukhachevsky, despite warnings from the chairman of the RVSR L. D. Trotsky and commander-in-chief S. S. Kamenev, monstrously stretched his front. In addition, the Southwestern Front never fulfilled Kamenev's order to transfer the First Cavalry from Lvov to Warsaw.

The pace of the offensive of the Middle Front of Rydza-Smigly could be envied by the most mobile armies. He did not allow the majority of Soviet divisions to escape from the defeat, although Red Russia was still not defeated. After the conclusion of peace, General Rydz held a number of high posts, and when, under the leadership of Pilsudski, the coup of 1926 was successful, he became the chief inspector of the army.

With the death of Piłsudski, Rydz followed in his footsteps. Not holding the presidency, remaining only an inspector, he turned into a de facto dictator of the new Rzeczpospolita, which caused a quarrel with most of the old "shooters" and "legionnaires", and above all with General Sikorsky.

Rydz-Smigly never concealed his readiness to cooperate with Germany against the Soviets, so September 1939 was a terrible blow for him. It was from his lips that a confession came out that

"With Germany we will only lose freedom, Russia will take our soul away."

The Marshal personally vetoed the passage of Soviet troops through Polish territory to help Czechoslovakia back in 1938, when there was no trace of the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. But the Polish-German non-aggression pact was already in force.

The defeat of the Polish army, which, due to a passion for cavalry attacks against tank Many called the operetta columns, forced Rydza to make unexpected decisions. He gave the order to retreat to the borders with Romania and Poland, without engaging in battle with the Soviet troops, which on September 17 entered the territory of Western Ukraine and Belarus.

Just a day after the invasion of the "Reds" Rydz-Smigly hastened to get out to Romania, from where he soon fled to Hungary. In October 1941, he contrived to return to occupied Warsaw, where he tried to fight the Germans.

However, this struggle sometimes took on very original forms. There is even evidence that he offered Anders' army, which was formed on Soviet territory, to strike in the rear of the Red Army (Treason of the Marshal of Poland).

In the Polish Army, the fugitive marshal was given a death sentence, it is believed that the same was done by General Sikorsky, who became the head of the government in exile, who did not get along very well with Anders' army. Be that as it may, it is officially accepted that Rydz-Smigly died on December 2, 1941 from a heart attack.

Jozef Haller


Józef Haller (more often he is not quite correctly called Haller), born near Krakow in 1873, graduated from the Vienna Military Technical Academy and served for a decade and a half in the 11th artillery regiment of the Habsburg army.

After retiring in the modest rank of captain, and this at 37 years old, Haller became carried away by liberal ideas and became a loyal supporter of Piłsudski, and with the outbreak of world war he enlisted in one of his legions. However, he did not forgive the Pilsudski coup of 1926, which ended the remnants of democracy in his homeland.

In August 1920, he, the commander of the Northern Front of the Polish Army, had to take on the main blow of Tukhachevsky's armies, which were rolling into Warsaw. He was also one of the founders of the regular army of the new Poland, and by no means on the basis of Pilsudski's legions.

Before the war, Haller had time to plunge into social activities, raised scouts and "falcons", even participated in the movement for cooperation. With the outbreak of the First World War, he did not have much choice - in the Polish legion of the Austrian army, he quickly became a colonel, fought in the Carpathians.

Under his command were a battalion, a regiment, a second brigade of legionnaires, and then the II Polish Corps, but only in independent Poland he was promoted to general.


The Brest-Litovsk Peace and the de facto independence of Poland prompted Jozef Haller to take action. He left Ukraine, reached Moscow without complications, and from there to Murmansk and went to France. There, the so-called "Blue" (according to the color of uniforms) army was already in full swing, headed by the French general Arshinar.

Up to 35 thousand Polish prisoners of war and more than 20 thousand American Poles were already enrolled in it, there were even people from the Russian expeditionary corps and ... from Brazil. Historians have the opinion that Haller was its first commander, although this is not entirely true, but his merits in the fact that she became the basis of the Polish armed forces, along with legionnaires and riflemen, cannot be denied.

Already in February 1918, with the light hand of Ignacy Paderewski, the famous pianist and composer, and also a diplomat, the Blue Army was under the control of the Polish National Committee - a kind of government in exile. In the end, the army, which reached six divisions, joined the ranks of the Polish armed forces of Piłsudski.

Haller's army was sent to Poland by the end of the summer of 1919, making no secret of the goal of opposing the advance of the Soviets to the West. However, the general also had to defend Lviv under the pressure of the Ukrainian Sich forces from the Galician army, which would later merge with the Red Army. By that time, Haller's army had no less than 70 thousand fighters, and the general himself became the commander of the Southwestern Front, which covered the border with Germany.

But in May, the general promptly returned to the east, where a little later he led the Northern Front. Prior to that, Haller had also managed to command in Pomerania, which the Poles almost took from the Germans even then. By the way, he led the spectacular ceremony of the "betrothal of Poland to the sea" in the town of Puck, in German - Putzig (A wedding with the sea: how Poland dreamed of becoming an empire).

The decisive battle near Warsaw, in which Haller's troops launched a counteroffensive, when no one believed in it, brought him not at all the glory that the general had the right to count on. Dithyrambs went exclusively to Pilsudski, well, if only to the Frenchman Weygand, but Haller could not complain about the absence of awards.

However, the orders did not cancel the main thing - the general of the division, Józef Haller, an experienced artilleryman, was appointed only as an artillery inspector. He immediately went to the Diet, from where he condemned the May Pilsudski putsch, for which he was immediately dismissed from the army.

Haller immediately jumped into politics, merging his Haller Union with other workers' organizations into the Party of Labor. After in January 1934, by the way, five years earlier than the USSR, Poland signed a non-aggression pact with Germany ("Hitler-Pilsudski pact"), Jozef Haller wrote directly:

"Now there is no longer any doubt that there is a secret military treaty between Germany and Poland, directed against the USSR."

In 1940, Sikorsky, who also once did not get along with the dictator, headed the government in exile and invited Haller to the post of Minister of Education. The retired general did not return to his homeland, in England he lived to be 86 years old, never finishing his multivolume memoirs.

Maxim Veygan


This French general, originally from Belgium, is considered to be the author of the brilliant plan for the defeat of Tukhachevsky's armies. There is even a version that it was Weygand who insisted that the main attack from the line of the Vepsh River be supported by a smaller flank attack on the Vkra River.

It is argued that Pilsudski and the front commanders believed that too deep a detour would allow the Reds to escape from the attack. In a sense, this version is supported by the studies of a number of Soviet specialists, for example, Melikov and Kakurin, who scrupulously analyze the possibilities of the withdrawal of Shuvaev's 4th Army and Guy's cavalry in other directions than along the Prussian and Lithuanian border.


Weygand's successful military career was promoted by rumors that he was the illegally born son of either a Belgian king or one of the Habsburgs. He was brought up in a Jewish family, but during the famous Dreyfus affair took a tough anti-Dreyfusar position.

He graduated from the famous Saint-Cyr, and met the world war as a 47-year-old colonel at the headquarters of General Foch. In 1916 he received a brigadier general for Verdun and from 1917 he became a member of the Supreme Military Council. In the rank of major general, it was Weygand who read the terms of the armistice to the Germans in the famous trailer in the Compiegne forest.

In 1920, Weygand was not directly subordinate to Pilsudski, he was the head of the French military mission in Poland and was forming a new Polish army. It turned out quite well, in terms of numbers at the beginning of the war, and then at its final stage, it significantly surpassed the forces of the Red Western and Southwestern Fronts.


In fact, Weygand played the role of chief of the personal staff of the Polish commander-in-chief, not burdened with office work. According to eyewitnesses, he repeatedly suggested repeating the Marne of 1914 on the Vistula, although a blow to the flank of Tukhachevsky literally suggested itself.

After Poland, Weygand went to Syria as High Commissioner of the French Republic in Syria and commander-in-chief in the Levant. But a year later, he received the quiet position of director of the Center for Military Research with the award of the Grand Cross of the Legion of Honor.

However, Weygand was still waiting for the post of chief of the French General Staff and member of the Supreme Military Council, from where he was sent to the inspector general for pro-Nazi sentiments. The general continued to draw closer to Marshal Petain and became one of the organizers of the notorious movement of the Kagulars, ready to cooperate with Hitler.

Back in 1931, General Weygand took the place of a member of the French Academy after the famous Marshal Joffre. He met World War II at the high post of commander-in-chief in the Eastern Mediterranean theater of operations.

When German troops invaded France, he replaced General Gamelin in "his" post of chief of staff and at the same time - commander-in-chief. He did not succeed in organizing a solid defense on the line of his name - German tanks broke through not only to Dunkirk, but also deep into France.

General Weygand immediately supported Marshal Petain in his desire to capitulate to Germany, for which, most likely, he received the rank of divisional general and the portfolio of Minister of National Defense in the Vichy government. After becoming governor-general and commander-in-chief in Algeria in 1941, Weygand tried to somehow resist the Nazis, but was arrested and even ended up in the Dachau concentration camp.

The allies freed the general, but on May 10, 1945, Weygand was arrested by the French, accusing him of collaborating with the Germans. The retired general was released only for health reasons, although later the Supreme Court dropped all charges against him.

Maxime Veygand died a very old man, having written by that time harsh comments on De Gaulle's memoirs and a three-volume "History French army ". He did not wait for the marshal's baton and, at the direction of the President of the Republic, General De Gaulle, did not even receive a mourning ceremony in the House of Invalids.
Author:
Photos used:
spbvedomosti.ru, wikimedia.org, i2.euki.la, histmag.org, wycop.pl, superhistoria.pl
243 comments
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  1. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 March 2021 05: 17
    +9
    The defeat of the Polish army, which many called the operetta because of the passion for cavalry attacks against tank columns

    Myth. According to Guderian's recollections, the Polish cavalry quite successfully attacked a motorized infantry battalion of his tank army. When tanks appeared directly, they left the battle.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 15 March 2021 05: 38
      +9
      Poles are such storytellers ... smile


      Painting of the Polish artist Jerzy Kossak "The Battle of Kutno in 1939"
      Even German tankers were taken prisoner.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 March 2021 07: 36
        +6
        Well yes - show their courage laughing
        1. Richard
          Richard 15 March 2021 09: 25
          +8
          The defeat of the Polish army, which many called the operetta because of the passion for cavalry attacks against tank columns

          Interestingly, ridiculing cavalry attacks against tanks, did the author himself hear anything about anti-tank pikes? Looks like no.
          The Polish army consisted of eleven cavalry brigades and they had anti-tank weapons.
          Rabinovich-Soloninsky anti-tank peak, 1936 model.

          1. The appearance of the pole of the pike-holder of the grenade
          2. The appearance of a grenade with a stock.
          3. Anti-tank lance assembly
          4. Anti-tank lance in section
          5. Anti-tank grenade in section.
          The anti-tank pike was a cavalry pike, in which, instead of a steel point, a cumulative anti-tank grenade equipped with a ballistic tip was used.
          Grenade caliber: 42 mm.
          Grenade length without stem: 250 mm.
          The length of the grenade with the stock: 440 mm.
          Explosive weight: 1102 grams.
          Armor penetration of the grenade - 87 mm.
          The weight of the grenade with the stock is 1504 grams.
          The grenade was equipped with a push-action shock fuse. The Polish cavalryman had to hit the armor of the tank with a "spear" (ballistic tip), and an explosion occurred, the energy of which was directed not in all directions, but only in one direction. A so-called cumulative jet was formed, similar to a jet of water from a cleansing enema.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 March 2021 09: 40
            +13
            By the same principle, it was possible to come up with anti-aircraft crossbows, removing the junkers during a dive. Or from balloons)).
            Well, who will allow, dear Richard, to approach such large targets as the horse rider close to the tanks? laughing
            1. Richard
              Richard 15 March 2021 10: 14
              +6
              Albert hi Nevertheless, they were the main anti-tank weapon of the Polish cavalry in 1939.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 15 March 2021 10: 16
                +5
                This is a disadvantage of the Polish cavalry
                1. Richard
                  Richard 15 March 2021 10: 24
                  +7
                  Rather, the lack of the Polish pre-war command, "ignoring" and other means of ATC cavalry - something that is cheap is not always the best
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 15: 24
                    +5
                    Rather, the lack of the Polish pre-war command, "ignoring" and other means of ATC cavalry - something that is cheap is not always the best

                    For the first time I learned from you about such a "panzer-pikh" ... belay No, I knew that the Japanese had such (by the way, similar mines were on Makarov's boats during the Russian-Turkish war), but that the Polish uhlans wielded similar mines ...
                    Rabinovich-Soloninsky anti-tank peak, 1936 model.

                    Some wrong Rabinovich designed it! stop A normal person would not have thought of that. drinks And what happened to the hands of "don pihota" after hitting a similar device on windmill armor? belay
                    As far as I remember, the main anti-tank weapons of the Polish cavalry were the 37-mm Bofors anti-tank guns. drinks

                    Divisional guns could also be used - the French Schneider of 1897 and our "three-inch" gun.
                    In general, the clerics have already drawn nasty things about us! negative
                    The attack of the Polish cavalry near the village of Gusinnoye. Artist Stanislav Evgeniusz Bods.

                    The 14th regiment of Yazlovetsky lancers, or rather, its reserve battalion. On September 24, near the village of Gusinnoe (not far from Grubeshov), the lancers, together with a squadron of mounted police under the general command of Vitold Radzilevich, attacked the infantry units of the Soviet 8th corps.
                    https://warspot.ru/13048-konnye-ataki-sentyabrskoy-kampanii
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 15 March 2021 15: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      For the first time I learned from you about such a "panzer-pikh" ... belay No, I knew that the Japanese had such (by the way, similar mines were on Makarov's boats during the Russian-Turkish war), but so that the Polish lancers wielded a similar one .. ...

                      Good afternoon Nikolai,
                      anti-tank weapons were interesting not only among the Poles,
                      here are the Finnish anti-tank weapons:

                      Pay attention to the log in the background, it is not accidental here, because:
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 04
                        +3
                        Pay attention to the log in the background, they are not here by chance, because:

                        Sergey, welcome! drinks
                        EMNIP, the Poles used Molotov cocktails in the defense of Warsaw. The Polish army also had the Karabin przeciwpancerny wz anti-tank rifle. 35, but it was so classified that even the boxes with them were labeled with the phrase "kb Ur" - they say, export ... to Uruguay! belay Accordingly, most of the soldiers did not even see these guns in their eyes, not to mention the ability to use them. request

                        We can be "grateful" to the Finns, in fact, for the emergence of the phrase "Molotov cocktail". Initially, it sounded like "Molotov cocktail", I think. hi
                        And the log was first used by the Ethiopians in the fight against the Italians. In the same way. We put wedges between the wheels, and at least once - it helped! laughing
                      2. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 15 March 2021 16: 14
                        +4
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        And the log was first used by the Ethiopians in the fight against the Italians.

                        I wonder where did the Ethiopians get the log? exported from Lebanon? wassat
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        We put wedges between the wheels, and at least once - it helped!

                        It must be assumed that the Finns have seriously studied the Ethiopian combat experience. drinks
                  2. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 15 March 2021 15: 52
                    +2
                    Quote: Pane Kohanku
                    As far as I remember, the main anti-tank weapons of the Polish cavalry were the 37-mm Bofors anti-tank guns.

                    Actually here it is (from the museum in Parola):

                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 09
                      +1
                      Actually here it is (from the museum in Parola):

                      "Give us, God, that others are worthless!" - thought the sagacious and economical Finns, and began to buy used consumer goods from their allies. wink The air park was a masquerade on the road, but tanks and light machine guns, unfortunately ... we "staffed" the Finns .... recourse
                    2. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 15 March 2021 16: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      "Give us, God, that others are worthless!" - thought the sagacious and economical Finns, and began to buy used consumer goods from their allies.

                      Yes, the Finns differed in this, they only had 19 types of helmets in service. hi
                    3. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 32
                      +2
                      Yes, the Finns differed in this, they only had 19 types of helmets in service.

                      Neat little bitters! Regarding helmets - the Poles also had several types. Offhand they can recall three: the French "Adriana", the German arr. 1916 and our own - 1930s development.
                      But we also had a disagreement. And helmet arr. 1936, and arr. 1940. There were also older ones - on the basis of the same "Adriana".
                      Here are our prisoners in it. Unfortunately, I can't find a better quality photo.

                      Well, and the famous English poster. Although the photo is probably pre-war.
                    4. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 15 March 2021 16: 43
                      +3
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      But we also had a disagreement. And helmet arr. 1936, and arr. 1940. There were also older ones - on the basis of the same "Adriana".

                      Since 1936 we have been in service with the SSH-36 ("Halkingolka"), in 1939 it was replaced by the famous "Victory helmet", first in the version SSH-39 ("three-rivet"), and in 1940. - on SSh-40 ("six-rivet"): differed only in the liner.
                      And during the war, they took out everything they found from the warehouses:
                      Adrian's helmets, Solberg's helmets (Russian version of Adrian's helmet or more correctly called SHLS - blade steel helmet).
                      By the way, since the time of the intervention and the civil war, a certain amount of English helmets and even German "stag" were in the warehouses.
                      Here is a famous photograph of Soviet anti-aircraft gunners in staggers:

                      But I don't think they were used during the Great Patriotic War. hi
                    5. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 50
                      +3
                      By the way, since the time of the intervention and the civil war, a certain amount of English helmets and even German "stag" were in the warehouses.
                      Here is a famous photograph of Soviet anti-aircraft gunners in staggers:

                      Yes, in a German helmet they could have shot their own inadvertently.
                      But there is a known case when in 1945 they did wear it! For fun...

                      Gunners of the 144th Infantry Regiment of the 49th Guards Rifle Division. In the foreground is the artillery commander of the 144th Infantry Regiment Alexander Monakhov and two platoon commanders.
                      The photo is interesting because many soldiers and officers of the regiment are wearing German helmets.
                      According to the veteran of this division V.V. Wojciechowicz, in the first days after the Victory, the regiment leadership decided to conduct a review. And since there weren’t enough on all Soviet helmets, they were simply thrown out earlier, because they were hardly used at the front, so the regiment’s leadership ordered them to wear German helmets.
                      The inspection took place in a forest in the vicinity of Linz, so the local population of Soviet soldiers did not see “in this form”, and after this viewing, German helmets were never used again in the regiment.

                      https://waralbum.ru/7930/
                      From the same review, apparently:

                      и

                      In general, the German helmet seems to be practical. During the war, it was worn by all and sundry. Even in parts of the Kuomintang. After the war, it can be seen on the heads of Pinochet's soldiers, and in many other places. General Lebed wrote that these were worn by Afghan commandos. In general, the thing went right!
                    6. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 15 March 2021 16: 57
                      +2
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      During the war, it was worn by all and sundry. Even in parts of the Kuomintang. After the war, it can be seen on the heads of Pinochet's soldiers, and in many other places.

                      WW1 "Rogach" was supplied to many countries.
                      that such were worn by Afghan "commandos".

                      Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev's visit to Afghanistan:
                    7. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 58
                      +2
                      Nikita Khrushchev's visit to Afghanistan

                      Just about, it turns out, stocks from what time!
                2. vladcub
                  vladcub 15 March 2021 19: 06
                  +2
                  "but I don’t think they were used in the Great Patriotic War" was like that. I once heard from veterans that some had helmets very similar to German
                3. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 12: 37
                  +4
                  that some had helmets very similar to German

                  Apparently, helmets of 1936 were meant. They were deep and wide-brimmed.
                4. vladcub
                  vladcub 16 March 2021 18: 36
                  +2
                  Fig knows him, maybe they, and maybe from the time of WWI and GW. By the end of 1941, they were taking out everything they could from the warehouses.
                5. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 17 March 2021 09: 33
                  +1
                  By the end of 1941, they were removing everything they could from the warehouses.

                  This is yes. But I won't say about helmets - I don't know. Soviet replicas of "Adriana" yes, they were in the troops.
                6. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 17 March 2021 15: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  Soviet replicas of "Adriana"

                  Nikolay, the most correct is Adrian's Russian replica: it was produced in Ingushetia at several factories, it was not produced in the USSR, but the remains were used, including during the Second World War, for example, in this photo of Adrian's helmet, it was Russian-made:

                  SSh-36 (Halkingolka) is already its own first Soviet development, put into service. hi
  2. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 15 March 2021 16: 30
    +3
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    but tanks and light machine guns, unfortunately ... we "equipped" the Finns.

    Check out this interesting Finnish Winter War poster:

    The Finns offer the Red Army soldiers to pay:
    for a revolver - 100 rubles
    for a rifle - 150 rubles
    for a rapid-fire revolver - 400 rubles (what do you mean?)
    for a machine gun - 1500 rubles
    per tank - 10 rubles
    for an undamaged plane - $ 10 and a trip to any country.
  3. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 34
    +3
    for an undamaged plane - $ 10 and a trip to any country.

    Famous poster, famous rates ... No.
  4. vladcub
    vladcub 15 March 2021 18: 56
    +2
    Mikhailov, is it true or fake
  5. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 15 March 2021 19: 58
    +2
    Quote: vladcub
    is it true or fake

    Sorry, I didn't quite understand your question: if you meant the poster, this is a Finnish propaganda poster from the "Winter War" period,
    A large collection of such posters (both Finnish and Soviet) is in the War Museum of the Karelian Isthmus in Vyborg.
    This one, however, I photographed in another museum. hi
  6. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 12: 44
    +3
    Mikhailov, is it true or fake

    Svyatoslav, this is a real Finnish propaganda poster. And there were leaflets. Look for the book "Secrets and Lessons of the Finnish War" on the Internet. You can find the pdf in the free download. This is a collection of documents. But this poster is there too. After reading the documents, you understand that we had a terrible mess, I must say ... what
    There were other leaflets, for example:

    or

    Our interlocutor Mihaylov's name is Sergey. Please love and respect! drinks
  7. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 14: 12
    +1
    Take a look at the PM, but I threw something off there not for general viewing.
  8. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 14: 17
    +2
    I found a very stupid, in my opinion, poster.

    It is interesting how the Finnish "cuckoos" treated such oak propaganda.
  9. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 37
    +2
    It is interesting how the Finnish "cuckoos" treated such oak propaganda.

    The poster you have given is designed to raise the spirits of our own soldiers, and not to demoralize the Finns. stop
    If you glance at the composition of the leaflets, the following is striking. soldier Ours appealed to the class struggle and other high feelings. But the Finns appealed to an unwillingness to fight and an empty belly! request
  10. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 16 March 2021 14: 49
    +2
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Ours appealed to the class struggle and other high feelings. But the Finns appealed to the unwillingness to fight and an empty belly

    Many Finnish posters are based on the "dislike" of soldiers for political instructors and play on this theme. Why they decided so, however, is not entirely clear. More precisely, in principle, it is clear that they were the prisoners (some of the prisoners) told: they say we are at war, because the political instructors are forcing. hi
  11. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 00
    +1
    Many Finnish posters are based on the "dislike" of soldiers for political instructors and play on this theme.

    Absolutely right! Then the Germans tried to promote the same topic, but they themselves admitted - it turned out disgusting. negative
  12. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 16 March 2021 15: 03
    +2
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Absolutely right! Then the Germans tried to promote the same topic, but they themselves admitted - it turned out disgusting

    And by the way, Nikolai, what did the Finns mean in that poster by a rapid-fire revolver, for which they offer 400 rubles? TT? hi
  13. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 09
    +2
    And by the way, Nikolai, what did the Finns mean in that poster by a rapid-fire revolver, for which they offer 400 rubles? TT?

    Yes, I think a self-loading pistol. TT. The old-time commanders could have Mauser by the piece.
  14. vladcub
    vladcub 16 March 2021 18: 52
    +1
    Curious what the rifle is-150, and the TT-400?
    I know that machine guns were in great demand among the Finns: DP. They set up its production and it was supposed to be in service until the 60s.
  15. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 March 2021 09: 32
    +1
    They set up its production and it was supposed to be in service until the 60s.

    Svyatoslav, I don’t know about the release, but they did capture a lot of them. It seems that towards the end of the war, thanks to this, the Finns even removed from service their unsuccessful RP "Lahti-Saloranta" ... sad Because there was a lot of DP!
  16. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 17 March 2021 15: 20
    +1
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    I don’t know about the release, but they captured a lot of them.

    As far as I remember, the Finns set up the production of spare parts for the DP-27, they did not produce the machine gun itself, they used trophy ones and indeed for quite a long time, they really liked it.
    I shot it once, I liked it very much. hi
  17. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 15: 07
    +2
    ... based on the soldiers' "dislike" for political instructors

    Hello my friend. drinks
    No, everything is correct here. My battalion chief of staff, Major Davydov, openly said: "The political worker's mouth closed - he removed the workplace." laughing
    So what can we say about ordinary soldiers. request
  18. vladcub
    vladcub 17 March 2021 15: 12
    +1
    Kostya, beware: Tatra will immediately declare: enemy of the people! I recently got about 20 minuses when I said: "Strictly speaking, Brezhnev is not a complete front-line soldier."
  19. Catfish
    Catfish 17 March 2021 15: 50
    0
    Well, why to offend Lyonya? He himself lived and did not interfere with the lives of others, not like the current ones ...
    And as for the Tatra, that's who I should put with the device on, it's on it and on its priests, illiterate squalor. laughing
  20. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 15: 01
    +2
    ... the poster is designed to raise the spirits of our own soldiers

    From my own experience I know that morale is raised not by leaflets, but by a field kitchen that arrived on time. laughing
    And the Finns fought for their land.
  21. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 04
    +2
    From my own experience I know that morale is raised not by leaflets, but by a field kitchen that arrived on time.

    Later, at a meeting in April 1940, both Shaposhnikov and Khrulev spoke about this. yes
  22. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 16 March 2021 15: 08
    +1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    From my own experience I know that morale is raised not by leaflets, but by a field kitchen that arrived on time.

    After the failure of the December offensive of 1939, at the insistence of Voroshilov, serious changes were made to the ration of the Red Army, for example, it was then that front-line 100 grams were introduced, which were issued in small glass bottles and soldiers began to issue goose lard to prevent frostbite. drinks
  23. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 15: 11
    +3
    But it was necessary to think about vodka in advance. A soldier is not a corps commander and mobile buffets do not go after him. laughing
  24. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 16 March 2021 15: 16
    +1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    But it was necessary to think about vodka in advance. A soldier is not a corps commander and mobile buffets do not go after him.

    But they reacted quickly: from the beginning of January they began to dispense vodka in 100-gram bottles, and now there are a lot of these bottles on the Karelian Isthmus. drinks
  25. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 15: 32
    +2
    We went to the Mannerheim Line, even took scuba gear with us, found a lot of interesting things, but we didn't find a single bottle like that. True, it was in the mid-eighties, in the Leipisuo area, near the "Pyatiozerka" and Lake Muolojärvi.

    For some reason, the map does not show an island in the center of the lake, but it is there, I was on it.
  26. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 16 March 2021 15: 40
    +2
    Quote: Sea Cat
    but not a single such bottle was found

    I saw such in the museum, they said that they were from under the vodka that was given to the soldiers. They could simply not pay attention, they are ordinary, like these:
  27. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 15: 51
    +2
    No, they definitely didn’t come across. In the swamp of Pyatiozerki, on an island in a dugout, they found a lot of interesting things. The biggest rarities were a Finnish newspaper for January 1940 and a charger for the Lahti-Solorant light machine gun, well, and a lot of things that usually come across in such places. Our 76-mm projectile hit the dugout, but did not explode, so there was a bulk of cartridges for the 3rd line and for the Suomi (9x19). They took everything out. And the bottles were from under the Finnish vodka, but, unfortunately, all empty, so they drank what they brought with them. smile
  28. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 16 March 2021 14: 39
    +1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    It is interesting how the Finnish "cuckoos" treated such oak propaganda.

    So, on the other hand, Konstantin, propaganda products of the same level were:
  29. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 15: 09
    +2
    "And then I ask Pan to Gilyaka, since the motorcycle is already ready." (C) - From Bendera folklore. drinks
  30. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 March 2021 09: 43
    +2
    And then I ask Pan to Gilyaka

    Thanks, I won't go. Signature: Pan. laughing
  31. Catfish
    Catfish 17 March 2021 12: 18
    +1
    So they are not asking for Pan, but for Pan. laughing
  32. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 March 2021 12: 28
    +1
    So they are not asking for Pan, but for Pan.

    The main thing is that it is not Kota Pan. laughing boring! fellow It's only with you on this thread for the third day and I'm chatting with pleasure.
  33. Catfish
    Catfish 17 March 2021 12: 46
    +1
    And don't tell me, there is absolutely nothing to read. request
    Is that talking about life with smart people. drinks

  34. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 March 2021 13: 07
    +1
    Is that talking about life with smart people.

    Pay attention to how Vladimir Ilyich rolls over the emotional and fascinating story of Lev Daviditch, and Joseph Vissarionovich cleverly wrinkles his mustache. wink
  35. Catfish
    Catfish 17 March 2021 13: 17
    +1
    And at this time, in a neighboring meadow ... drinks

  36. vladcub
    vladcub 16 March 2021 18: 46
    +2
    One of my relatives, I called him: "grandfather Vasya", in "White Finnish" and said that: "cuckoo" - Finnish snipers. Hunted signalmen and officers
  37. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 18: 58
    +2
    Among them were people of any sex, both men and women, as well as in our Patriotic War. The sniper is an artist, he mentally sees a line and stretches it from one point to another. And here it does not matter what gender he is, talent is important, like, say, Lyudmila Pavlyuchenko's, after her work in general, massively epic paintings were obtained, in the sense of the number of dead Fritzes. smile

    And the girl is beautiful. love
  38. vladcub
    vladcub 16 March 2021 19: 31
    +1
    Recently, somewhere I heard that Pavlyuchenko was a sadist: she was trying not just to blame, so that he would howl before he fumbled.
    Most likely, she did not do it all the time.
  39. Catfish
    Catfish 16 March 2021 20: 31
    +3
    Do not broadcast this nonsense, now they paraffin all those who, specifically and with their blood, won this war. Honestly, Slava, I am surprised that you repeat this rubbish after those who, out of hatred for our past, throw mud at the history of the country ..
    In my Moscow there is a street named after the Hero of the Soviet Union Aliya Moldagulova,

    and I will kick the face of anyone who will pour dirt on the blessed memory of this woman. Both she and Lyudmila Pavlyuchenko did everything to make us alive today.
  40. vladcub
    vladcub 16 March 2021 21: 01
    +2
    Here I agree with you. Many "revisionists" have emerged from history.
    Recently, someone on the site said that Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya was schizophrenic. So I wanted to tell him something, but in the evening I have a lousy Internet. Although MTS
  41. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 17 March 2021 12: 01
    +1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Both she and Lyudmila Pavlyuchenko did everything to make us alive today.

    Lyudmila Pavlyuchenko is my idol!

    somewhere I heard that Pavlyuchenko was a sadist: she tried not just to blame, so that he would howl before he crumpled

    I don’t understand where they get it: what were they there? peeking out of her back?
  42. Catfish
    Catfish 17 March 2021 12: 17
    +2
    I don’t understand where they get it: what were they there? peeking out of her back?


    There is a category of two-legged animals that try to cheat on everything they touch.
  43. vladcub
    vladcub 17 March 2021 15: 27
    0
    She probably told them
  44. vladcub
    vladcub 16 March 2021 18: 32
    +3
    Thank. I'll know
  • Catfish
    Catfish 15 March 2021 12: 31
    +11
    Albert, I wish you health! soldier
    I was completely touched by the "anti-tank spikes" that Rich posted, deciding to amuse our audience. laughing
    (By the way, "pichka" in Czech means "pipiska", and our soldiers in Czechoslovakia in '68 had problems with female saleswomen when soldiers asked them for MATCHES).
    But seriously, I myself served in the tank and I perfectly understand the complete failure of such "toys".
    Now about the "Battle of Kutno".
    The Poles did not attack German tanks with sabers bald, there was no such idiocy. The German infantry settled in a clearing and brewed coffee for themselves, enjoying a well-deserved rest, the Germans drove the armored vehicles into the woods and they were not visible. After the first shock from the attack of the cavalry, regaining consciousness, the German crews took their places in the "Ganomags", took them out of the forest and machine guns opened fire. And then it all ended. I draw your attention - these were armored personnel carriers, not tanks. And this whole story with "chopping German tanks with sabers" was inflated by journalists and, if I am not mistaken, American ones.
    A. Sick in his book "XX century of tanks" described this episode in sufficient detail with the numbers and names of units on both sides. smile
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 14: 23
      +4
      I draw your attention - these were armored personnel carriers, not tanks.

      I heard about two armored vehicles and one gun. As a result, the Poles suffered more losses than the Germans. Although the "coffee brewed" infantrymen were terrified ...
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 15 March 2021 14: 55
        +4
        ... the "coffee-brewed" infantrymen were terrified ...


        Did the Polish defensive have time to examine their pants? laughing
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 15: 09
          +3
          Did the Polish defensive have time to examine their pants?

          The very fact. wink Imagine: you settled down in a clearing, started making coffee. drinks I even took off the suspenders. Here from the woods after the command "szable hand!" (Taras cites this phrase just like that before the attack) a crowd of horses flies at you. They shout, wave their sabers, some unambiguously put out long and thick pikes ... angry Uncle Kostya, you can’t do it yourself! request
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 15 March 2021 15: 27
            +5
            I even took off the suspenders.


            According to the charter, it was not allowed. soldier
            As for the rest ... In the Polish version, it probably looked like that. laughing

            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 15: 28
              +6
              As for the rest ... In the Polish version, it probably looked like that.

              Here is a clear-cut postage stamp. As you can see, she is wearing a Pz-4. And three Don Quixote with lances. Whoever had an anti-tank pike was a "don-pihot". laughing
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 15 March 2021 16: 16
              +5
              "Don-Pihot" is edOrovo! good



              Well, almost on topic. drinks
            3. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 20
              +2
              Well, almost on topic.

              Yes, it was the "panzershrek" that he lacked ... drinks
            4. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 March 2021 17: 36
              +2
              And Sancho with the ammunition? Some kind of Hezbollah fellow
            5. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 47
              +1
              Some kind of Hezbollah

              Peaceful wandering knight ... laughing
            6. Catfish
              Catfish 15 March 2021 18: 03
              +1
              This is the Spanish articulated anti-tank gun "Donpihot & Panza" for operations in the Russian Arctic zone. laughing
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 15 March 2021 18: 53
        +2
        Kostya, your picture reminds me of "hunting for a mammoth." Do you remember we had such a picture in history?
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 15 March 2021 18: 56
        +2
        Of course I remember, they drove the unfortunate beast into the pit and hammer him with stones, hunters, damn it. negative
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 March 2021 18: 49
    +2
    Done or not, you can get scared
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 March 2021 15: 30
    +4
    Greetings, Constantine! hi
    Guderian described a successful attack by the Polish cavalry on his motorized infantry)). As for the bunks on the tank - well ... you can show him a pich, with the same effect
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 15: 36
      +5
      As for the bunks on the tank - well ... you can show him a pich, with the same effect

      Pay attention to how many rushes were crammed into the incomprehensible side hatch of the tank on the right ... fellow He worked as a maniac sadist ... belay

      I even know a model of tanks - "iron kaput". And two gallant Zoldates surrendered - Drankel and Zhrankel. laughing
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 15 March 2021 16: 14
        +2
        No, but where did this painter find such tanks, I was too lazy to look at the photos. But the SS runes and the swastika still painted, this is probably so that all the people would understand who the valiant cavalry was fighting with. laughing
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 March 2021 16: 16
        +2
        And in the background, a tank is shooting at the lancers on Pegasi
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 15 March 2021 16: 11
      +2
      In the end result of this attack, the Poles did show something to the Germans - their asses. Here it turns out as in an old joke about Chapaev and karateka: "I-I !!! And with a bare heel on the saber." And here with a saber bald. The result is the same. laughing
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 March 2021 16: 17
        +3
        A good tukhes is also nahes (property).
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 21
          +2
          A good tukhes is also nahes (property).

          The main thing is not to let the hippo be grabbed by him! wink
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 March 2021 17: 37
            +1
            Quote: Pan Kohanku
            A good tukhes is also nahes (property).

            The main thing is not to let the hippo be grabbed by him! wink

            Well, yes, then run away along the branches
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 15 March 2021 16: 28
          +3
          So much for a resourceful person ...

          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 40
            +2
            So much for a resourceful person ...

            This is already a Vietnamese anti-tank weapon! Fought with American boats. wassat
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 15 March 2021 16: 57
            +2
            Did you have these boobies in sight? laughing




            And their boat.

          3. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 59
            +2
            Did you have these boobies in sight?

            Yes, yes, especially the stub in the nose turret. laughing
          4. Catfish
            Catfish 15 March 2021 17: 03
            +2
            I liked the Ram more, this guy in the hat and the helicopter attack under Wagner. drinks
          5. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 March 2021 17: 39
            +2
            He loved the smell of napalm in the morning ...
          6. Catfish
            Catfish 15 March 2021 17: 52
            +2
            Poetic nature, in nature ... a poet in his soul, and then there is the Valkyrie. smile
          7. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 March 2021 19: 43
            +1
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Poetic nature, in nature ... a poet in his soul, and then there is the Valkyrie. smile

            A connoisseur of scientific achievements of the military-industrial complex, a lover of classical music, surfing and Nordic women is our man!
          8. Catfish
            Catfish 15 March 2021 20: 14
            +2
            For which and
            ... liked this guy in the hat more


            And his pearl - "I love the smell of napalm in the morning, this is the smell of victory ..."

            Even quoted. There is such a toy "Far cry" (I mean the very first game from Kraitek) so there the main character just quotes this guy almost literally, only instead of "napalm" he mentions "TNT".
          9. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 12: 30
            +3
            There is such a toy "Far cry" (I mean the very first game from Kraitek)

            - Hey, you! In a red shirt! angry (speech of the mercenaries).

            Game-era ... winked by the way, the leader of the mercenaries was called Crowe. wink drinks
          10. Catfish
            Catfish 16 March 2021 13: 47
            +1
            Have you ever had the desire to plunge into this water? Painfully, she is good and real. good

          11. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 13: 50
            +1
            Have you ever had the desire to plunge into this water? Painfully, she is good and real.

            And how, since 2005. yes I passed the game. A very well-developed scenario, each new level brings surprises, and more and more intricate enemies. good The pistol can be thrown away immediately, like the knife - they are useless, and there will always be enough cartridges for the M4. request Well, and the last mission is generally tin from start to finish! drinks It is easier to jump over the first goblin encountered and run further. fellow
          12. Catfish
            Catfish 16 March 2021 13: 56
            +1
            I still love her, no one else has done anything like this. I still have old discs with the game, sometimes I'm nostalgic. It is a pity that Kraitek sold this brand, everything that follows is already pale crafts. drinks

          13. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 28
            0
            I still love her, no one else has done anything like this. I still have old discs with the game, sometimes I'm nostalgic.

            In those days, it was a miracle in reality. I haven't even tried the second and third parts. And the first is shine. good
          14. Catfish
            Catfish 16 March 2021 15: 04
            +1
            The rest of the pieces just suck, someone correctly wrote that they are not all "Fair Edge".
            I now have the fifth, in terms of content we have a rare stupidity, but how they, bastards, made nature! You can just hang out around the "world" and not shoot at anyone.
          15. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 10
            0
            You can just hang out around the "world" and not shoot at anyone.

            Declare yourself a pacifist libertarian? lol
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 March 2021 17: 38
    +1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    So much for a resourceful person ...

    Oh wei, Sadom and Gamora))
  • Catfish
    Catfish 15 March 2021 17: 47
    +2
    In the Garden of Gonorrhea laughing ... Vietnam ...
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 March 2021 19: 43
    +2
    And in the Syphilis garden - Cambodia fellow
  • Catfish
    Catfish 15 March 2021 20: 02
    +2
    Arkady - brilliant !!! laughing
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 March 2021 20: 07
    +1
    I am Akaki Afanasevich hi
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 12: 32
    +2
    I am Akaki Afanasevich

    Albert, I think Uncle Kostya's paws have failed! request otherwise you are too many-sided Asmus! drinks
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 16 March 2021 12: 49
    +1
    Yes, I, Alfred Hitchcockovich, have a lot of all sorts of faces and nicknames))
  • Richard
    Richard 15 March 2021 09: 46
    +4
    The attack by the German army was sudden. Only four Polish cavalry regiments located near the border with Germany were armed with anti-tank pikes. These were: the 16th regiment of the Great Poland lancers, the 18th regiment of the Pomor lancers, the 24th lancers' regiment, the 10th cavalry infantry regiment. It was they who bore the brunt of the blow of the German panzer divisions.
    In the eighteenth century, the army of the great Russian commander Suvorov walked the distance from Warsaw to East Prussia in just a day! It took the German army, which has thousands of tanks and vehicles, 5 days! Because the German armies paved the way to Warsaw with hundreds of burning tanks and thousands of burning cars:
    German tank destroyed by the 16th regiment of the Greater Poland lancers

    Tanks of the 19th Panzer Corps under the command of Heinz Guderian, destroyed by the 18th Pomor Lancers Regiment in the battle of Kroyanty.

    A German tank destroyed by the Uhlans of the 24th Lancers' Regiment on the outskirts of Warsaw, 1939.

    Making fun of cavalry attacks against tanks, I am sure that the author himself, who wrote this article for the VO, did not hear anything about the battle of the 18th lancer regiment near Kroyanty against the 76th infantry regiment from the 20th motorized division of the Wehrmacht (September 1, 1939)
    Tanks of the German 10th Panzer Division, advanced along the railway through the Chojnice station, towards the Krajanty station. There they were attacked by Polish cavalrymen equipped with anti-tank pikes. In less than 15 minutes, 184 German tanks were destroyed on the battlefield - almost 80% of the tanks that were part of the German division. The Polish cavalry as a result of this battle lost 26 people killed and 50 wounded. Moreover, half of the losses were caused by German air strikes. What happens after this defeat? The German advance stops. The remnants of the 10th Panzer Division are transferred to the 19th Army Corps.
    1. Richard
      Richard 15 March 2021 10: 00
      +5
      The article frankly did not like.
      There is no text, but some kind of pretentious narration.
      IMHO - the article is not for VO, but for the Polish Internet publication it will be just right, and then the Poles will probably have complaints about basic ignorance of the topic
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 15 March 2021 10: 17
      +2
      Never read something like this
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 15 March 2021 10: 48
      +4
      Are the Germans aware of the hundreds of their burned-out tanks?

      In less than 15 minutes, 184 German tanks were destroyed on the battlefield.


      But I thought that Panfilov's propagandists were still storytellers, but here they are, they almost surpassed them by an order of magnitude.
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich 15 March 2021 11: 57
      +7
      Quote: Richard
      did not hear about the battle of the 18th Uhlan regiment near Kroyanty against the 76th infantry regiment from the 20th motorized division of the Wehrmacht (September 1, 1939) Tanks of the German 10th Panzer Division, advancing along the railway through the Chojnice station, towards the station Krajantsy. There they were attacked by Polish cavalrymen equipped with anti-tank pikes. In less than 15 minutes, on the field the battle was destroyed 184 German tanks - almost 80% of the tanks that were part of the German division.

      Sorry, Dmitry, but the Germans had no tanks at all in that battle at Kroyanty. And besides, to destroy in 15 (!) Minutes ... 184 (!) a mounted tank is possible only in a science fiction film

      As for the "terrible" losses of the Germans in that battle, they themselves write the following about their 76th regiment:
      Non-commissioned officer of the 6th company of the 2nd battalion of the 76th infantry regiment Max Mantgei wrote in his diary:

      “This unexpected and unusual attack did not come without losses on our side. Our adjutant, Lieutenant Grunwald, Lieutenant Pag and several soldiers of the 7th company were evacuated to a medical center due to their injuries, and from there to a field hospital. Then our company continued its offensive operations, going in the first echelon to the right of the 7th company. Under the decisive direction of our commander, we began to pursue the cavalry. From 30 to 40 Poles were left lying. "


      Losses of the Germans during the battle at Kroyanty: 11 soldiers were sent to the hospital, and an unknown number of lightly wounded remained in the ranks.

      Pteri Poles: 25 Lancers killed
      and about fifty wounded. Among the dead were Colonel K. Mastalezh, Captain E. Shveshchak, second lieutenant T. Mlitsky. AND
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 15 March 2021 12: 14
        +4
        Andrey, if you want to cheer yourself up, then this is where the opus about anti-tank picks comes from
        http://zhurnal.lib.ru/t/tonina_o_i/solonin_polska.shtml
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 15 March 2021 12: 38
          +3
          Quote: A vile skeptic
          Andrey, if you want to cheer yourself up, then this is where the opus about anti-tank picks comes from
          http://zhurnal.lib.ru/t/tonina_o_i/solonin_polska.shtml

          Thank you, Timur.

          It's amazing that something like that is taken seriously ... belay request
        2. hjvtp1966
          hjvtp1966 16 March 2021 20: 43
          0
          AAA !!! Shame on me! I bought it !! belay
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 15 March 2021 12: 39
        +4
        Andrew, hello! hi
        In less than 15 minutes, 184 German tanks were destroyed on the battlefield - almost 80% of the tanks that were part of the German division.

        This nonsense does not even make sense to comment on, our GLAVPUR tore off his eggs with envy (sorry). The only thing left to be surprised is that Rich posted this nonsense. request
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 15 March 2021 12: 54
          +2
          Quote: Sea Cat
          This nonsense does not even make sense to comment on. It remains only to be surprised that Rich posted this nonsense.

          hello, Konstantin hi

          Just hurry up, it happens
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 15 March 2021 12: 56
            +3
            Well, I don't know - 15 minutes and 184 tanks ... it doesn't even sound like science fiction. wassat
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 15 March 2021 15: 33
          +2
          Maybe a neutron bomb was blown out before the attack of the lancers?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 15 March 2021 16: 23
            +2
            Most likely they got drunk too hard, without a snack. wink

    5. Catfish
      Catfish 15 March 2021 12: 15
      +5
      Dima, hello and best wishes. hi
      I like the detail and breadth of your comments, but ... while declaring
      ... German armies paved the way to Warsaw with hundreds of burning tanks and thousands of burning cars:
      it is necessary to give real figures of German losses during the invasion of Poland. Even taking into account the fact that the bulk of the German tanks were the unfortunate T-I tankettes, a little more serious than the T-II and a couple of Czechoslovak models, losses of hundreds of armored vehicles are absolutely unrealistic, and our GLPVPUR did not reach such pearls. laughing
      Yes, and in the photographs of the destroyed German equipment you cited there is only one real tank - the T-IV, the rest of them show the same Czech 38t.
      I have nothing against the Poles, but what was not, that was not! There were no hundreds of burnt tanks and thousands of burned out vehicles. The Poles blew almost dry. request
      1. Richard
        Richard 15 March 2021 13: 48
        +5
        Hello Kostya hi
        I confess that I brought data from an unverified source.Foul skeptic and [b] Olgovich [/ b] indicated it correctly -http: //zhurnal.lib.ru/t/tonina_o_i/solonin_polska.shtml
        Memory failed sad I heard about this episode with the loss of more than 100 tanks from the Polish cavalry by the Germans while still in training. Therefore, I inserted it into the comment without checking. My mistake. It was necessary to insert the verified text
        For example from the VSE (Soviet Military Encyclopedia).

        Yes, I'm getting old repeat ... I wanted to cite one episode, but I cited a completely different one
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 March 2021 13: 52
          +3
          You just do not regret wasting time on checking and reading, here, too, as elsewhere, in the presence of a "shaft" quality suffers. smile Good luck, buddy. drinks
        2. Richard
          Richard 15 March 2021 13: 56
          +3
          Kostya, poking around in the VSE, found one interesting fact about the company in 1939, which he did not know before:
          On September 8, the Polish army used chemical weapons - mustard gas. As a result, two German soldiers were killed, 12 were poisoned
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 17 March 2021 15: 57
            +1
            Dmitry, "rich", I heard about it, but it was presented as: "army tales"
    6. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 14: 25
      +3
      A German tank destroyed by the Uhlans of the 24th Lancers' Regiment on the outskirts of Warsaw, 1939.

      The Germans recorded only a few Pz-4s as irrecoverable losses for the entire campaign. All the more remarkable is the photo of this shot down.
      1. Unknown
        Unknown 15 March 2021 20: 15
        +3
        Photo from the stern, the same number. Burning German tank Pz.Kpfw. IV in the village of Krasnoarmeysk (now the Volgograd region), near the Stalingrad shipyard (plant number 264). The building in the photo is a fire station near the entrance of the plant. All photos exhibited by the Poles, from the battles in the USSR in 41-42.
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 15 March 2021 20: 19
          +2
          Here is another photo
    7. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 15 March 2021 15: 56
      +2
      Quote: Richard
      Making fun of cavalry attacks against tanks, I am sure that the author himself, who wrote this article for the VO, did not hear anything about the battle of the 18th lancer regiment near Kroyanty against the 76th infantry regiment from the 20th motorized division of the Wehrmacht (September 1, 1939)
      Tanks of the German 10th Panzer Division, advanced along the railway through the Chojnice station, towards the Krajanty station. There they were attacked by Polish cavalrymen equipped with anti-tank pikes. In less than 15 minutes, 184 German tanks were destroyed on the battlefield - almost 80% of the tanks that were part of the German division. The Polish cavalry as a result of this battle lost 26 people killed and 50 wounded. Moreover, half of the losses were caused by German air strikes. What happens after this defeat? The German advance stops. The remnants of the 10th Panzer Division are transferred to the 19th Army Corps.

      After that, having completed an unparalleled heroic horse march, the Polish lancers captured Berlin on the move ...
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 11: 09
    +7
    cumulative jet, similar to the jet of water from a cleansing enema.
    Combat enema wassat
    The Japanese honestly considered this a weapon of suicides - the fact is that it is impossible to concentrate all the energy of the explosion.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 15 March 2021 15: 34
      +2
      Rabinovich's spear
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 15: 37
        +1
        Not .. Receiver of notes is not built-in wassat Rabinovich will not work. No. Moreover, it is disposable.
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 54
        +2
        Rabinovich's spear

        You said so solemnly, "The Spear of Fate" is straight forward! laughing drinks
        Do you remember that Bongo (Sergei Linnik) once made a cycle about these Japanese sticks? Well, he generally turns out chic cycles, he knows how! drinks
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 02
          +2
          straight "Spear of Fate"!
          You haven't seen Fima Schneerzon's bleed yet wassat
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 17
            +2
            You haven't seen Fima Schneerzon's bleed yet

            Waste of fate? drinks
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 18
              +1
              The trunk of eternity laughing drinks
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 22
                +2
                The trunk of eternity

                Get it off in onyx! drinks and to the ward of weights and measures!
              2. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 25
                +1
                The main thing is that its owner agrees to this. yes Copies can be sold on Amazon - cover costs and still have gesheft yes
              3. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 29
                +2
                The main thing is that its owner agrees to this.

                Get drunk, make an impression, and then, like the Chinese, create round eyes - "we don't know, our own development!" stop and wholesale directly. Discounts for officials and deputies!
              4. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 37
                +1
                make an impression
                21st century in the yard - 3D printer + scanner to help. But you will have to sue - the whole gesheft will go to lawyers. Easier copyright pay fellow .
                deputies - discounts
                For them - to produce in Switzerland and sell at triple the price yes
              5. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 43
                +2
                But you will have to sue - the whole gesheft will go to lawyers. Easier copyright pay

                Indeed, he will sue. what Remember Captain Kidd? He just robbed an Armenian ship in the Indian Ocean. It seems, trifles, a matter of everyday life, at the beginning of the 18th century you will hardly surprise anyone with this! The Armenians just complained about him so much that they did hang him in England! fellow
                For them - to produce in Switzerland and sell at triple the price

                Pre-smeared in Swiss chocolate ...
              6. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 53
                +1
                the Armenians complained about him so much that he was hanged in England!
                Even then, they had connections in court - they brought a small share.
                Pre-smeared in Swiss chocolate ...
                A mixture of solidol with capsaicin - innovations laughing !
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 March 2021 17: 35
    +3
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    straight "Spear of Fate"!
    You haven't seen Fima Schneerzon's bleed yet wassat

    I have not seen, I am on girls repeat
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 48
      +1
      I didn’t see either- Sonya was praising me without a break. I didn't want to sit on a chair laughing
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 March 2021 19: 45
        +2
        Didn't want or couldn't? repeat
      2. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 20: 15
        0
        Politely declined lol It was unnecessary to clarify smile .
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 16: 57
    +2
    Combat enema

    Pihar kamikaze turned into Harry Potter, and instantly learned to fly? drinks
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 08
      +1
      A very original explanation of the principle of operation of the cumulative ammunition laughing ... Pikhar in this case flew directly to Valhalla - in parts sad
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 20
        +2
        Pikhar in this case flew directly to Valhalla - in parts

        And I thought - riding a broom! By the way, among the Japanese there were many owners of glasses - they could pass for Sweaty Harry. laughing
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 22
          +1
          Quite a plot for a manga-anime good Or for hentai wassat
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 24
            +2
            Or for hentai

            "Harry Potter and the Shovel Blaster". wink If in pieces - this is already selected guryatina. But let the Japs see it for themselves. laughing
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 31
              +1
              Having familiarized yourself with their work, it is immediately noticeable how much they differ in their outlook from us. A Japanese colleague in general somehow blurted out (pretty much under the gin yes ) - we have a high-tech Middle Ages.
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 15 March 2021 17: 33
              +2
              Having familiarized yourself with their work, it is immediately noticeable how much they differ in their outlook from us.

              I didn't communicate, but judging by the peculiarities of the culture, the differences are very significant.
              A Japanese colleague in general somehow blurted out (pretty much under the gin

              Alex, her organism doesn't always accept sake, but you used to drink her traditional English drink ... repeat drinks who has the Middle Ages - theirs or ours? wink
            3. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 17: 45
              +1
              the differences are very significant
              There is a real abyss between us. It even seems that we ended up on the same planet by misunderstanding.
              You smelled her traditional English drink ..
              It was her wife who taught her to spend the summer in England smile I mixed gin and tonic in a jug, chopped all sorts of citrus. When I arrived after work, the second WhitleyNeill fundel was half empty belay But the bolmen kept up normally - not the first year in England yes ... The Middle Ages in Japan, so she did not really want to leave and was looking for a British husband (any Europe would do it).
            4. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 March 2021 19: 56
              +2
              Let Mikey Order Himself - I love Bukake fellow He will quickly find himself a garish English boy from Pakistan ..
              They still have the Middle Ages - the attitude towards women is appropriate.
              Fujiyama view from a skyscraper bar
              And on the pylon a girl from Vladivostok
              And 20 bowls of sake
              Got home
              Why not Olya ???? And not red hair ...
              Wife hit in the face
              How the hand hurts!
            5. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 20: 21
              +2
              Let Mikey order himself - I love Bukake fellow He will quickly find himself a garish English lad from Pakistan ..
              Just Japanese men (according to her) in everyday life are exactly like Pakistanis and other Arabs. Perverts to boot lot belay Therefore, give her a European. Yes, (again, according to her), they get married in Japan for convenience, there it is practically a deal (and, accordingly, the first question is what will I get from this). And she wants, like Europeans, big and pure love yes ... Again, the Japanese husband will do hara-kiri if his wife drinks a bottle of gin in the evening and hides home on her eyebrows. wassat
            6. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 20: 24
              +2
              The wife sleeps in the dark
              Strong English gin
              Goodbye dear Amaterasu
              drinks am
            7. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 March 2021 20: 34
              +2
              Yes, in the course I - one Israeli woman in Japan worked as a "metro hotel" - after four years of work she bought (herself from an average-income family) an apartment for 600K USD and Smart)).
              Then she split - there, for just looking at the correspondence of the hair color on the head and below, a 60-year-old top manager can pay 4-5K USD, much more for sex laughing
            8. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 20: 42
              +1
              There, men are not forbidden to visit suction bars and establishments with waitresses in school uniforms. wassat Women who are also married need to know their place. And child pornography (!) Was banned there in 1998, and then under pressure from the United States and other leading states.
              By the way, a good film showing real Japan (again, according to this colleague) - Enter the void. And about the roots (okay, one of the roots) of their economic miracle - the movie "slave factory"
            9. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 March 2021 20: 52
              +2
              I have one relative plunged into modern Japanese culture (not Mishima and not Ryunokse), after which he delivered a misanthropic verdict - now I understand that the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a war crime ...
            10. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 21: 56
              +1
              Sorry, you almost lost him. But it can still be channeled into a suitable channel - he can do programming and martial arts. Although here it is already not far from Mishima sad
            11. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 16 March 2021 07: 48
              +2
              Japanese and programming? ))
              Martial arts - of course.
            12. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 11: 44
              +3
              Martial arts - of course.

              Albert, but what about the contemplation of sakura and familiarity with the beauty? wink
            13. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 16 March 2021 12: 42
              +2
              Over the banks of the Yellow River
              A flock of ivory gulls are flying
              Hajin Tied to a Pillar
              Everything does not die from a bayonet
              As another Gajin said - it's hard in training, easy in battle! fellow
            14. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 13: 04
              +3
              As another Gajin said - it's hard in training, easy in battle!

              I bought the geisha.
              And latex is done -
              I'll call you Zina.
              drinks
              At one time we had an exhibition of samurai in the Artillery Museum for several years. Gorgeous samples, there is even a wakizashi blade made by master Muramas (and there are few of them left - they were purposefully destroyed). So, behind a separate curtain there was an exposition not for everyone - that is, Japanese intimate art. Mischievous pictures and other intricate figurines. lol drinks It's funny, but there was such a genre in Japan too.
              In fact, it’s a pity that I didn’t take a picture then ... It seems that in 2011 I was on it for the second time.
            15. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 16 March 2021 13: 10
              +2
              Well, yes, they are entertainers))
              I came to Kabuki
              but in a smartphone
              Watching Bukake Kurosawa fellow
            16. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 13: 33
              +2
              Watching Bukake Kurosawa

              Performed by seven samurai? lol Shpakovsky writes books about them, and we ... repeat
            17. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 16 March 2021 19: 29
              +1
              Seven Samurai and Geisha
              Seven samurai and the genius of judo
              Seven Samurai, Hirohito, Dolphin and Kit ... repeat
        2. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 16 March 2021 14: 24
          +1
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          So, behind a separate curtain there was an exposition not for everyone - that is, Japanese intimate art. Mischievous pictures and other intricate figurines.

          I stumbled upon a similar exhibition in the Taragona Museum in Spain, though not Japanese, but such Roman art. My wife took my daughter to another room, and I took some pictures. I must say these Romans were those still bawdy.
          for example (if not removed of course):
        3. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 39
          +1
          I must say these Romans were those still bawdy.
          for example (if not deleted of course)

          I would not like it, because - the story, no matter how obscene it sometimes may be. Hmm ... Although, it seems, the same Greeks sometimes drew on amphorae. lol And the cult of Priapus?
      2. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 16 March 2021 14: 42
        +1
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        At one time we had an exhibition of samurai in the Artillery Museum for several years.

        And with these terrible guys, Nikolai, I suppose you are familiar:


        And our favorite "espontons":
      3. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 51
        +1
        And with these terrible guys, Nikolai, I suppose you are familiar

        Duck, who is not familiar with them, Sergei! In the oldest Russian museum! drinks
        I was lucky, in 1999 we were taught there for four days by the former head of the Kunstkamera - Professor A.S. Mylnikov. Man! good
      4. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 16 March 2021 14: 54
        +1
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        Duck, who is not familiar with them,

        Handsome men! I have not seen them for a long time, but here I visited the other day and directly experienced "a feeling of deep satisfaction." hi
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 11: 38
    +2
    Again, the Japanese husband will do hara-kiri if his wife drinks a bottle of gin in the evening and hides home on her eyebrows.

    Hmm .. "I have a cunning plan," as Baldrick, Sir Blackader's servant, would say ... wink I will go and advise our government on how to calm down Japanese dreams of the Kuril Islands. Fuck their women! bully And there are no more samurai - self-cut. Checkmate for lovers of kawaii anime and other bukak. good drinks
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 13: 55
    0
    And there are no more samurai - self-cut. Checkmate for lovers of kawaii anime
    Good morning! There are no samurai there anyway, but there are plenty of gopota (teenage street crime)! By the way, my colleague's great-grandfather was a real samurai from the estate.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 08
    +1
    By the way, my colleague's proaded was a real samurai from the estate.

    Good afternoon! drinks under the Tokugawa, his ancestors had the right to ride, and all peizane commoners were obliged to bow to them. Whoever bowed low - that ax-head! In general, "Kin-dza-dza", only instead of crimson pants - hakama and an eboshi hat. drinks
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 14: 11
    0
    the commoners were obliged to bow to them.
    And even their knives were taken away from them - one in the village was chained to a pole. So they came up with nunchucks and sais - this is originally an agricultural tool.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 34
    +1
    So they came up with nunchucks and sais - this is originally an agricultural tool.

    Alex, sai (in Japan, the word dzitte is used more) - then they took root in the police. drinks A kind of multifunctional tool that could parry a blow with a sword (or even break it), and distribute it on the face to an excessively unlawful bully. angry From agricultural implements, you can still remember the sickle - kama. Especially rabid ones attached a chain with a weight to it, the resulting contraption was called kusari-gama. fellow
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 14: 39
    0
    Even now, the Japanese are one of the most unarmed societies on the planet. When I told that Japanese woman that in Latvia I could go to a store and pay with a card for a combat pistol or a carbine, she looked at me as if I were an alien.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 44
    +1
    combat pistol or carbine

    Are pistols sold there too? ...
    Even now, the Japanese are one of the most unarmed societies on the planet.

    How Hideyoshi took away the swords ... Fast and hard!
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 14: 48
    0
    Are pistols sold there too?
    Sold and worn. Semi-automatic.
    How Hideyoshi took away the swords ... Fast and hard!
    Well, yes, with unarmed subjects, I somehow sleep more peacefully good
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 14: 57
    +2
    Sold and worn.

    Who are they going to defend against? .. It seems that short-barrels are also allowed in Finland? By the way, what about the short-barreled in Britain?
    Well, yes, with unarmed subjects, I somehow sleep more peacefully

    Taking into account the fact that in the country before that for 250 years everyone was at war with everyone, and the armies of regional princelings were regularly replenished with excessively naughty thieving commoners with a drekol - the step was more than justified! request Moreover, Hideyoshi himself was from the "lower classes", and knew the whole kitchen thoroughly! laughing
    We also had such examples - I think they were justified. For it is easier to take away weapons after a big storm than to enjoy the rampant banditry.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 15: 02
    0
    In Finland, it seems to be forbidden, in England too (in the 70s it was possible to own almost all types, but the nuts were quickly tightened) To defend yourself, you know, the very realization that a girl can give you not minutes of pleasure, but a disability, makes you not think about carnal love for her without her consent. The innate curiosity of checking the contents of someone else's house will also recede into the background before the risk of intramuscular injection of lead. Something like that.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 08
    +1
    The innate curiosity of checking the contents of someone else's house will also recede into the background before the risk of intramuscular injection of lead. Something like that.

    With a developed right to self-defense .... The main condition! request
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 15: 16
    0
    You know, they get out of prison, and from the grave, as a rule wassat not. People almost never get off the wheelchair either. But a certain law enforcement practice has already been developed - the weapon was legalized by Vaira.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 26
    +1
    You know, they get out of prison, but from the grave, as a rule, they don't.

    There is also a Soviet expression: "let it be better for three to judge than four to bear." But keep us, Lord, from both.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 15: 34
    +1
    I can say that Riga is one of the few European capitals where you can walk around the streets relatively safely at night. The likelihood of getting in trouble for your illegal actions "here and now" and not "later maybe" (by the way, for some members of society, a couple of years in prison - n io than) it is great to adjust the brains.
    keep us, Lord, from both.
    This is yes.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 14: 57
    0
    https://siaieroci.lv/lv/produkti/c-2-medibas/g-3-ieroci/s-6-pasaizsardzibas-ieroci Вот кстати в Латвии такую пушку можете приобрести.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 01
    +1
    By the way, you can buy such a gun in Latvia.

    Then they won't let me go home with her. laughing
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 15: 05
    0
    Yes, not cool wassat The wife, when moving to Latvia, demands "Python" for herself. You will have to order it. A friend's Tanfoglio is handsome and very accurate (about accuracy - from his words)
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 07
    +1
    The wife, when moving to Latvia, demands "Python" for herself.

    Are you moving? wink and how is the return?
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 15: 13
    0
    Are you moving?
    So far, hypothetically, a lot has not been done. Return, she will have to try it in the dash, maybe he will change his mind. But most likely not - she is a sportswoman. The main selection criterion is he is handsome wassat
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 20
    +1
    Return, she will have to try it in the dash, maybe he will change his mind.

    And the "Desert Eagle"? I wonder what he has, but only Albert can say about it (if he held it). It's funny that this elephant is in service with the Polish special forces "Thunder" - the noblemen had to show off by all means! laughing
    The main selection criterion is he is handsome

    Then you get tired of picking up a handbag! And earrings! wink drinks
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 15: 25
    0
    Her favorite shoe brands are Dr Martens and Corcoran. good So I have no problems with handbags and earrings (purchasing them).
    And the "Desert Eagle"?
    This is already an overkill. In addition, the revolver is a priori reliable.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 March 2021 15: 49
    +1
    In addition, the revolver is a priori reliable.

    I fired once from a revolver. From the sports version of the revolver, three rounds. Hit one. laughing
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 March 2021 15: 58
    0
    SmithWesson and Taurus left positive impressions of themselves. They are comfortable in the hand. It's really uncomfortable to wear. Beretta92 turned out to be not convenient in practice. Glock was closest to ideal in my hands.
    It was a long time ago - I have been living in England for the last few years.
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 17 March 2021 05: 39
    +2
    Python is very high quality but ponty. Smith and Wessons are not worse but cheaper. There is a good Taurus 608 8 charger 357 Magnum (or 38 special can eat). Also handsome. But Taurus have glitches. But Taurus also repair their crafts very quickly and efficiently. Tell your wife that 357 Magnum kicks. Not bad. There was a video on youtube, the man was joking. I put 5 rounds of 38 Special into the drum of the revolver, and the 6th - 357 magnum, gave it to my wife ... On the 6th shot, she flew into the lobeshnik. I was laughing ... About Tanfoglio. I have two of them. Witness Match, and Witness Match Polymer. These are actually improved Cesettes (cz75). I still do not understand why the countries of the Warsaw Treaty did not adopt the ChZ-75. The best pistol in the world. In terms of reliability, accuracy and price, both pontovoy Glocks and Beretta are minus. In general, I am a fantat ChZ, I have ChZ52, I ChZ82, and Chz83, and Chz85, and Chz75 SP01. By the way, about the Czechs, I doubt very much that the Kalashnikovs are much more reliable than the VZ58. I have both, I will not fall asleep with sand or drown in mud. Don't suggest.
    As for the safety of the city. The more "oppressed" national minorities in the city, the less security. And this is not about poverty. In the United States, there are enough poor white towns, there in the Appalachians, for example. And there it is safe, to clean the snout - always, but there are no post-fireballs, there are very few rapes, and there are few drugs. Yes, everyone has weapons there. But it's not that. On the South Side and West Side of Chicago, everyone also has weapons, as in Baltimore, Detroit, and other cities with a "high level of diversity", but as soon as there are a lot of blacks or mexes, the district and the city immediately turn into a needy. With syringes in the streets, gunfire and other pleasures of multiculturalism. And with a typical ghetto-style shooter, the gun probably won't help you. Why? Yes, because they will open fire on you from behind, or from a moving car. You, as a rule, will not have time to pull it out, I've seen enough of this. Yes, and my friend was killed. Just for walking in a blue jacket and black pants where you need to walk in a red jacket. They killed me in the back. "The mistake came out," they thought he was from the Black P Stones, and he was not in the gang at all. Even when, during rasping and show-off, someone decides to pull the pistol first, then the initiative and the first year is his, these are not spaghetti westerns where the defender pulls out the gun faster than the attacker. And your trellis will be prepared for you only if the enemy either misses at all (which is often), or you stay alive, too often, since from a driving car, or when shooting immediately from pulling out, the accuracy is not very high. I repeat, there are shots in chikage every day, especially on weekends. The weapon is there, everyone's illegal, and it doesn't bother ANYONE. Blacks and Mexots. This is not a weapon, or lack thereof, it is a mentality. By the way, the same blacks behave accordingly in England, only with knives. Another example, there is the city of Lyons in Illinois, near Midway Airport. Around - blackness, crime, dirt, stinkers. (he worked in a medical office at the intersection of Archer and Kedzie, we were robbed 3 times in 5 years). Well, Lyons is 2-3 miles from where I worked. Poor Polish district. And there is purity and silence and little crime. Poor regions, in one white, in the other negros, the difference is like heaven and earth. By the way, not far from there is a Vietnamese district, there are also poor people, but it's quiet there with gunfire and drugs. So that's it. It's not so much about the weapon as about the contingent. I invite all internationalists - live a couple of months in a poor black area. But when defending a house - yes, the weapon is rather robust. Cops in the USA, even in a good area, arrive in 10-20 minutes at best. I won't explain what 3 chelas will do to you with baseball bats and machetes in 10 minutes.
    By the way, how do post-shootings happen in the USA? Rayon Wheeling (wheel, gee). Two semi-teenage Russian / Ukrainian / Jewish gangs are feuding, and several people have already been cut off. They appointed negotiations, the local SAMBO coach, master of sports came out to reconcile them. The authority, the former paratrooper was respected by everyone. He kept the gangs from shooting and stabbing, the leadership began to speak and then BOOM, and 9mm flies in the back of his head. And nobody saw anything. Attention - disassembly. Everyone is at the limit, everyone is looking as if the other side did not start the bloodshed, and then the negotiator who is respected by BOTH gangs gets a bullet in the head. Naturally, the peasant was not found to death for 15 years already. Both Russian / Ukrainian / Jewish gangs swear that they are not, and that no one came to the dismantling with the barrel. Rumor has it that these were Latin Kings, who really want territory, and there are a lot of Mexots in Wheeling, as they began to call in there, so the region began to receive cranks. And this is in spite of the fact that many people have at least a pump at home here. It's not about weapons or lack of them, but about the contingent. As blacks or Latinos or Arabs stopped by - turn off the light, drain the water. Sell ​​the hut quickly and leave, after 3 years, you won't get 2/3 of the price for this hut. By the way, when Filipinos, Koreans, Vietnamese or Chinese come to the district, they do not carry such problems with them. It's not about weapons or weapons, but "the population and its quality."
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 March 2021 09: 42
    +1
    It's not about weapons or lack of them, but about the contingent. As blacks or Latinos or Arabs stopped by - turn off the light, drain the water.

    Hmm .... Hmm .. I sympathize! sad
    Yes, and my friend was killed. Just for walking in a blue jacket and black pants where you need to walk in a red jacket. They killed me in the back. "The mistake came out," they thought he was from the Black P Stones, and he was not in the gang at all.

    Tin. GTA San Andreas ... No.
    Dmitry, you tell me very well. No, it's just interesting to get information from people who live in other countries. drinks
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 17 March 2021 11: 52
    -1
    As for the safety of the city. The more "oppressed" national minorities in the city, the less security
    In Riga, they are not, therefore, it is much safer there. And about the choice of the trunk, it will be necessary to arrange a test run in the shooting range in Riget and it will be determined. I don’t remember what cartridge Taurus was under, but he kicked powerfully. CheZet is very popular in the Baltics, among those who know how to count money and do not chase show-off. Really not bad, yes.
    the same blacks and in england behave accordingly, only with knives
    The attacks in post-Yugoslavia and Ukraine have seriously reduced the cost of weapons in England. One consolation - here the blacks are shooting / cutting among their own people. Question - in Alaska, at least you can live with white people?
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 March 2021 17: 41
    +2
    "- Supreme ruler, this is love
    - She looks like a 14 year old boy
    - 14-year-old boys - Your weakness, Admiral-General "(c)
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich April 18 2021 11: 28
    +1
    All this is interesting .. But what is the result? Poles with pikes launched a counteroffensive and entered Berlin?
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 15 March 2021 10: 56
    +4
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Poles are such storytellers ...

    Not the right word, another example - "fairy tales" - the painting by Jan Matejko "Stefan Bathory near Pskov":
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 March 2021 18: 45
    0
    Alik, greetings. How can myths be destroyed? It's good to hide from reality behind beautiful myths
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 15 March 2021 05: 29
    +1
    What an ode to the Polish commanders, already aspirated! But in fact: it was not the Poles who won, but Trotsky and Tukhachevsky who merged the Soviet-Polish war.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 15 March 2021 05: 43
      +10
      and Trotsky and Tukhachevsky merged the Soviet-Polish war.

      Don't forget the help of the French to the Poles.
      Polish divisions were formed and transferred from France to Poland ... about 70000 soldiers.
      France, the USA, Great Britain, and a number of other countries provided Poland with large long-term loans and, during the spring of 1920, supplied it with a large amount of weapons, ammunition, and military equipment. technology.
      https://bigenc.ru/military_science/text/3589482

      This is the reason for the success of the Polish military units.
      Did Tukhachevsky take this factor into account?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 15 March 2021 05: 52
        +1
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        This is the reason for the success of the Polish military formations.

        One of the reasons, and Weygand is mentioned in the article, but if Tukhachevsky and Trotsky, and no matter how sorry, Lenin, would not have rested with their "strategy of ramming infantry strikes," then the "miracle" would not have happened.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 March 2021 12: 05
        +1
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Polish divisions were formed and transferred from France to Poland ... about 70000 soldiers.
        France, the USA, Great Britain, and a number of other countries provided Poland with large long-term loans and, during the spring of 1920, supplied it with a large amount of weapons, ammunition, and military equipment. technology.

        Exactly so: the Red Army was opposed, in fact, the entire power of the Entente, about which the Entente in advance warned the Soviet leadership, offering him the most reasonable compromise - the Curzon line (to which they returned in 1939 and 1945).

        But someone bit the bit and threw a completely economically ruined and bloodless country on an absolutely adventurous trip to Europe.
    2. apro
      apro 15 March 2021 05: 47
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      But in fact: it was not the Poles who won, but Trotsky and Tukhachevsky who merged the Soviet-Polish war.

      Not a fact. Taking into account the Crimean front and the green movement in the rear of the Reds, there were clearly not enough reinforcements. They turned too wide. Bare the flanks.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 15 March 2021 05: 55
        +2
        Quote: apro
        deployed too wide, bare the flanks.

        What flanks, Tukhachevsky himself climbed into the girth of Warsaw and ran into there.
        1. apro
          apro 15 March 2021 05: 58
          -2
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          he climbed into the girth of Warsaw and ran into it.

          Was there anything to fill in the gaps?
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 15 March 2021 06: 00
            +3
            Quote: apro
            Was there anything to fill in the gaps?

            There was no need to climb, what's not clear here? It was clear to Stalin and Budyonny, but they did not decide.
            1. apro
              apro 15 March 2021 06: 08
              -2
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              It was clear to Stalin and Budyonny, but they did not decide.

              IVS Stalin with SMBudenny carried out the order near Lvov, and the order to go to the aid of Tukhachevsky was received belatedly.
    3. mr.ZinGer
      mr.ZinGer 15 March 2021 07: 14
      +5
      Here, as in chess, the winner is the one who knows how to take advantage of another's mistake.
    4. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 March 2021 09: 26
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      What an ode to the Polish commanders, already aspirated! But in fact: it was not the Poles who won, but Trotsky and Tukhachevsky who merged the Soviet-Polish war.

      What are the Polish generals Rydz-Smigly Jozef Haller, ordinary officers who did not distinguish themselves in any way in the Austro-Hungarian army, and also Lieutenant Tukhachevsky. Just on the wave of 1917, they received the rank of general. However, they were smarter than the ambitious Tukhachevsky, who considered himself Napoleon.
      And where were these Polish generals when Hitler attacked Poland, where did their talents appear? I hope everyone knows this.
  • tasha
    tasha 15 March 2021 05: 34
    +2
    The history of Russia is very closely connected with the history of Poland. Historians have calculated that over the past thousand and a half years, our country has waged most of the wars with Poland. The centuries-old confrontation could not but leave its mark on the views of the two peoples towards each other. We have accumulated mutual claims - a carriage with a small cart ...
    I think that since it is impossible to live peacefully, then at least the Russians and the Poles should respect each other. "I am a bad friend, but what a good enemy I am ..." smile hi
    1. apro
      apro 15 March 2021 05: 38
      +1
      Quote: tasha
      I'm a bad friend, but what a good enemy I am ...

      This does not belong to the Poles. The same enemy.
    2. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 15 March 2021 05: 50
      -4
      I think that since it is impossible to live peacefully, then at least the Russians and the Poles should respect each other.

      Yes, I, as a Russian, am I really against ... against just the Polish nationalists in Poland ... there is now a Russophobe sitting on a Russophobe and driving around as a Russophobe.
      Not the slightest desire on the part of the Poles to establish good-neighborly relations with Russia ... only demands on it.
      Well, if so, why then be offended by the response ... if you want war, you will get it.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 15 March 2021 07: 25
    +3
    The main mistake in 1920 was the belief that the people of Poland would support the offensive of the Red Army. This mistake was repeated more than once. Rydz-Sigly was not only a traitor, but also a plagiarist. He appropriated the expression of Adam Mickiewicz. “The Russians freed our body, but put chains on our souls. " Do you feel the similarity?
    1. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS 15 March 2021 07: 36
      +13
      There was a case, I agree ... But the mistakes of the Red Army command cannot be disregarded either. The trip was carried out to Berlin, and Warsaw was an intermediate stage in the movement of the Red Army - in fact, the very direction of Tukhachevsky's attacks in 1920 suggests that Warsaw was not the main prize in these operations, and this double desire to defeat the Poles and go to Berlin played partly such a deplorable role. The strikes were scattered, there was no powerful strike on Warsaw, and it seems to me that in reality there were absolutely not enough forces to defeat the Polish army. You know, from the memories one gets the impression that the ideologist of this operation (namely the campaign to Europe) was after all Lenin. Trotsky frankly writes about this: Lenin had formed a clear position that it was necessary to move the revolutionary wars towards Germany. There was a great hope that it was Germany that was the most advanced workers' country, and there the proletariat would support the Russian revolution, it needed to be helped by such a military campaign against Berlin. But since by that time a kind of Polish statehood had already been created, then, naturally, Warsaw - Pilsudski with his troops became an obstacle on the way to the world revolution.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 15 March 2021 09: 40
        +5
        Trotsky frankly writes about this: Lenin has formed a clear position that it is necessary to transfer the revolutionary wars to Germany.

        Well, Trotsky wrote a lot of things, to be critical of him. As K. Simonov wrote, after the war in the United States, reporters pestered him with a question - did he read the works of Trotsky in the 30s? - Simonov said that he looked. - And what is the impression? - The impression that the boxer who lost the fight wrote a book, that he actually won the fight.
    2. apro
      apro 15 March 2021 07: 37
      -2
      Quote: nikvic46
      The main mistake in 1920 was the belief that the people of Poland would support the advance of the Red Army.

      It's just that during the civil war it helped the Soviets more than once. When the opponents went over with arms to the side of the Reds, there was a hope that this would also happen in Poland.
  • tank66
    tank66 15 March 2021 07: 36
    +2
    Tukhachevsky is busy with this miracle. It was not for nothing that he was put into the IVS's expense. I read for his strange "escape" from captivity, where, in the opinion of Ignatiev / RI counterintelligence /, this marshal was not yet recruited. He contrived not to be interrogated, he dumped on the troubled revolutionary days with Trotsky and his comrades ...
    And for the Poles, I personally amazed me - why do they hate us so much at the genetic level. Let me explain - I was in Poland during the Ichkeria Troubles. I entered / spent the night, in short, into the apartments of ordinary pshek. Almost everywhere on the walls there are green flags, portraits of Dudaev, even a green clock with Arabic script fool
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 11: 21
      +2
      Almost everywhere on the walls there are green flags, portraits of Dudaev, even a green clock with Arabic script
      Where did you find Poles burning with such love for Islamists?
      1. dzvero
        dzvero 15 March 2021 16: 56
        +1
        I don't know about the Poles, but in the 90s I had a colleague. Married to a Polish woman. During the Second Chechen War, he rooted for the Mujahideen and scolded the Russians ... But he was an intelligent man ... So tank66 is unlikely to come up with ...
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 15 March 2021 20: 29
          0
          rooted for the Mujahideen and scolded the Russians ... And an intelligent man
          Here, most likely in "tilikhennost" business.
      2. tank66
        tank66 16 March 2021 10: 22
        0
        In Szczecin, Warsaw and a town named Kizlina Kozha laughing In Warsaw, he foolishly gave his phone number to the owner of the removable roof, and he turned out to be an intercity telephone operator, then he regularly hesitated with malicious comments on incidents in Russia ..
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 15 March 2021 08: 36
    0
    I want to thank the author. Moderately written. No superfluous and everything on the topic. I read it with interest.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 15 March 2021 11: 28
      -2
      Moderately written
      True, with errors, but this is a trend on the site today.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 15 March 2021 08: 37
    +5
    The Poles had a chance in history to become a great power instead of the Republic of Ingushetia, but they profiled it and instead of admitting this fact they blame the Russians for all their problems, and now the corresponding complex has already formed. Let them thank their politicians for this.
    The last one who began to drive a new anti-Russian wave was the former communist Kwasnevsky.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 15 March 2021 09: 43
      +2
      The last one who began to drive a new anti-Russian wave was the former communist Kwasnevsky.

      Priests-defrocked, they are. And we also have - the now forgotten Burbulis - a teacher of the history of the CPSU. And there are such people here.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 15 March 2021 10: 56
    +2
    And it’s okay that the Poles cheerfully rushed to Kiev before the Vistula, but got in the teeth? A miracle really happened on the Vistula, that Tukhachevsky was set up, and Russia, as it was then called, the USSR nevertheless emerged only 2 years later, chose not to squeeze, although, if desired, the Poles would have been finished off.

    And so these gentlemen have questions not about this military success, they won, well done, and Tukhachevsky is not a good fellow, but about the genocide of several tens of thousands of our prisoners, that is, the Polish command is war criminals.

    Well, everyone knows how the great Polish army then "developed" under the leadership of the heroes of the Vistula.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 15 March 2021 11: 26
    +2
    In 1920, Weygand was not directly subordinate to Pilsudski, he was the head of the French military mission in Poland and was forming a new Polish army.
    Weygand never led a French military mission in Poland. He did not even enter it. This mission was led by General Paul Prosper Henri. Weygand, along with the French diplomat Josserand and the British diplomat D'Abernon, was part of the Inter-Allied Mission, created on the initiative of Lloyd George on July 21, 1920.
    Weygand was never directly subordinate to Piłsudski, he was an adviser to the head of the Polish headquarters, Tadeusz Jordan-Rozwadovski.
    This French general, originally from Belgium, is considered to be the author of the brilliant plan for the defeat of the armies of Tukhachevsky
    The question is at least a controversial one.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 15 March 2021 11: 38
    +1
    The defeat of the Polish army, which many called the operetta because of the passion for cavalry attacks against tank columns

    I don’t understand, why the hell to talk about this nonsense?
    This immediately gives out the author's plinth level. I thought that such passages only "yazhedevachko" Frolova were forgivable.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 15 March 2021 12: 15
    0
    The defeat of the Polish army ..., forced Rydz to unexpected decisions. He gave the order to withdraw to the borders with Romania and Poland,
    Well, it's clear to the border with Romania, but to the border with Poland ...
  • Kushka
    Kushka 15 March 2021 17: 09
    0
    Quote: nikvic46
    The main mistake in 1920 was the belief that the people of Poland would support the advance of the Red Army, a mistake that was repeated more than once.


    And almost in a row: The Afghan campaign of the Red Army in 1929 was a special operation aimed at supporting the deposed King of Afghanistan Amanullah Khan.

    This also said that as soon as they cross the border
    the entire Afghan people will join them along with the donkeys.
    They barely carried their feet away.
  • lelik613
    lelik613 16 March 2021 19: 25
    +1

    That's all there is to know about the Polish generals.
  • Sychev Vitalii
    Sychev Vitalii 14 May 2021 19: 23
    -3
    Well then they attacked the redfins with theirs world revolution!