Military Review

"The Russian land groaned from two tyrants:" holy "and" quiet "

95
"The Russian land groaned from two tyrants:" holy "and" quiet "
The trial of Patriarch Nikon (S.D. Miloradovich, 1885)


Since the Great Schism, the people and the government have been irrevocably alienated from each other. There is a gradual loss of living faith, a decline in the authority of the church. Official Orthodoxy is degenerating, shrinking, becoming an appearance. In the final we get the catastrophe of 1917-1920. Exploded and destroyed temples. And the complete indifference of the people.

Priesthood or kingdom


Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich still trusted Patriarch Nikon and did not interfere in his activities. The tandem seemed to work well:

"Sob friend"

ruled in the rear, and the tsar can engage in war with Poland.

In the campaigns, Alexei Mikhailovich moved away from the capital's courtyard, plunged into a new life for him, matured. I learned better and began to appreciate the generals Trubetskoy, Dolgorukov, Romodanovsky, Khitrovo, Streshnev, Urusov, etc. As a result, the former boundless influence and charm of Patriarch Nikon faded. The king received new advisers, no less educated and intelligent. I saw warriors, brave and selflessly devoted to him.

When he returned to Moscow and got down to business, he found that Nikon was not doing it the best way. The treasury was empty. Not only did Russia spend colossal money on the war, but the patriarch took huge sums to build his residences, temples and monasteries.

The monetary issue was so acute that the government had to mint copper rubles along with silver rubles. The king tried to put things in order in finances. He ordered to issue money for certain needs only on his personal instructions.

Nikon believed that this did not concern him. He again demanded in a large order a large sum for the construction of New Jerusalem (Nikon's "New Jerusalem" versus "Light Russia"). He was refused.

Nikon raised a scandal. He came to the sovereign, threatened that

"Shake the dust off his feet"

and will not come to the palace longer. Alexei Mikhailovich was by nature a peace-loving, religious person, this time he yielded. He apologized, ordered to give the money. But a split began to emerge between the tsar and the patriarch.

In the meantime, Nikon stubbornly promoted church reforms. And they met with strong resistance. Somewhere they were simply sabotaged, served in the old way. The Solovetsky and Makaryevsko-Unzhensky monasteries rebelled openly.

The Patriarch, as usual, was not flexible and peaceful. He answered harshly. Opponents of the reform were persecuted in the most severe manner. Solovki was besieged by the tsarist troops (the siege lasted from 1668 to 1676). The hierarchs no longer dared to object to the patriarch. Nikon achieved a curse and excommunication from the church of all supporters of the old rite.

There was a Great Schism.

The best, the most persistent and spiritual part of the people went into schism.

Nikon planted a dead "Orthodoxy". He believed that faith is not the source of life, but a way of preparing for death. The patriarch expected the end of the world in 1666 and prepared the church for the end times. Therefore, the Russians had to “correctly” praise God, unite in this with the Greeks and other Christians.

Opal Nikon


The dual power of the two great sovereigns, Alexei Mikhailovich and the patriarch, became completely intolerable. Contemporaries noted that Nikon behaved

"More regal than the king himself."

The servants were more afraid of the patriarch than the sovereign.

Nikon formed his own large courtyard. The patriarchal confidants and officials quickly got a taste of their position, became insolent. Nikon himself was consumed by lust for power. Boyars and nobles every holiday had to present the patriarchal confidants, wait a long time for a reception at the patriarch. Nikon imposed his opinion on the tsar on any issue, no matter how serious or small. He tortured the royal court and the Boyar Duma with his nagging.

There was a new monetary conflict. In 1649, according to the Cathedral Code, church lands were taxed, and the Monastic Order was established to collect them. Nikon was against the fact that this money is spent not only for church, but also for state needs. The patriarch began to insist that church property had nothing to do with the state, the tax should be abolished. Nikon hated the head of the Monastic Order of Odoevsky, called

"New luther".

His opponents among the nobility and clergy responded as best they could. They played a game against Nikon, tried to win the tsar over to their side. Once, at a feast under the tsar, Streshnev compared the behavior of his dog with the manners of the patriarch. Nikon was told, and in the presence of Alexei Mikhailovich, at the service in the Assumption Cathedral, he cursed Streshnev. This angered the king.

Then the patriarch imagined that he could dispose of in external affairs.

In 1658, the king of Kakheti (Western Georgia) Teimuraz came to Moscow. Ask for help, support against the Persians and Ottomans. Such visits were commonplace for the Russian state. In such cases, the dear guest was greeted magnificently, gave gifts, gave money, but did not give serious promises. Russia was not yet up to the Caucasus.

According to Russian etiquette, any foreign delegation first received an audience with the tsar, then negotiations began. Then it became known that Nikon ordered the Georgians to visit him first, and only then go to the emperor. He showed that spiritual power is higher than secular. He also wanted to proclaim himself the Georgian patriarch, which threatened to get into trouble in the foreign arena.

The tsar's bailiffs were ordered to lead the Georgians first to Alexei Mikhailovich. The patriarchal man Vyazemsky tried to prevent this, to turn the delegation to the Assumption Cathedral. Okolnichy Khitrovo beat Vyazemsky. He complained to Nikon.

The patriarch got angry. He wrote a letter to the king, where he listed the grievances.

The tsar promised to investigate, but did not punish Khitrovo. Alexei Mikhailovich began to avoid the patriarch. Nikon demonstratively took off the patriarch's vestment, changed into a monastic dress, announced that he was no longer a patriarch. He hoped that the same история, as in the decree for the patriarchate, Alexei Mikhailovich will come running to him, he will roll at his feet, pray and repent. But this did not happen.

Alexei Mikhailovich is already tired of his "friend's friend" and his freaks. True, he made an attempt at reconciliation through the boyar Trubetskoy. Nikon took a bite at the bit. He did not want to talk to the boyar, he said that he was leaving.

On July 10 (20), 1658, Nikon left Moscow as a protest: without abandoning the Moscow See, he retired to the Resurrection New Jerusalem Monastery.

The patriarch still hoped that the king would catch himself and pray for forgiveness.

But the "quietest" one was only glad to get rid of such a problem.

He instructed Trubetskoy to conduct an investigation into the affairs of the patriarch. Numerous grievances, violations and extortion were immediately revealed. The tsar was given the correspondence of the "friend", imbued with arrogance and pride.

As a result of the investigation, land and wealth were confiscated from the patriarchal close associates. In August Trubetskoy and Lopukhin visited Nikon. Nikon capitulated. He blessed Alexei Mikhailovich and the hierarch who will lead the church.

Pitirim became the locum tenens of the patriarchal throne. Nikon was officially deprived of the position of patriarch only at the Great Moscow Cathedral in 1666-1667. He was condemned and, as a simple monk, was sent to the Ferapontov monastery. Joasaph was elected the new patriarch.

The same council approved the most harsh measures against the Old Believers, and uttered an anathema against them. Old Believers indulged in state criminal prosecution, were equated with schismatic heretics. The split has become irreversible.

Destruction of the "fair custom of ancestors"


The Russian Empress Catherine II at the general conference of the Synod and the Senate on September 15, 1763 very accurately and fairly showed the foundations of the Great Schism and what it led to.

She noted:

“What is our split?

What is Old Belief?

I remember the events and their sequence. From time immemorial, the Russian Orthodox people were baptized with two fingers. I am not listing other rites. All this was beautiful, all excellent, godly and salutary.

There was no need for us before the rituals of the Greeks, as well as the Greeks before ours.

Both churches - the Greek and ours - lived in peace and fellowship.

Eastern fathers, bishops, metropolitans, patriarchs, visiting us in Moscow, glorified the piety of Russia, comparing it with the sun that illuminates the universe. "

However, in the time of Nikon and Alexei Mikhailovich, the church and the authorities, under the influence of the Greek and Kiev clergy, decided to carry out a "reform". They believed that the Russian faith was allegedly distorted, corrupted. Repressions and terror fell upon those who resisted, that is, the best Russian people.

The Empress wisely noted:

“Bodily malice and executions, whips, whips, cutting tongues, rears, whiskey, shakes, gallows, axes, bonfires, log cabins — and all of this is against whom?

Against people who want one thing: to remain faithful to the faith and the rite of the fathers!

Reverend Fathers! Why should you be so beastly against them and Satan?

Do you even have a spark, though the ghost of human feelings, conscience, meaning, fear of God and fear of men?

Do I see saints?

Are Christians before me raging and raging? "

The tsarist government took the side of foreign agitators,

"The government stood up against its people",

"In full force betrayed the fatherland and demanded this betrayal from the people."

The people resisted.

And the government did not change its mind, intensified the repression.

“I cannot wonder at Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich, wonder at his stupidity, his heartlessness and heartlessness.

Nikon and Alexei attacked the popular protest with torture and death.

The Russian land groaned from two tyrants: "holy" and "quiet".

Also, Catherine II noticed that the best, lively and energetic part of the Russian people, bearing the name of "Holy Russia", took the side of the protest. Since that time, the Russian church has been in ruins.


S. D. Miloradovich "Black Cathedral". 1885 Black Cathedral - a meeting of monks of the Solovetsky Monastery, who revolted against the church "reform" of Nikon

The tragedy of "Holy Russia"


As a result, the greatest spiritual and informational sabotage against the Russian civilization and people was carried out. There was a complete substitution of meaning, its replacement with form.

The Nikonians, who introduced Greek rituals, played the role of inquisitors, "witch hunters" in Russia. The Nikonians reduced the tradition of the Russian faith to the nationalization of the church, bureaucracy, reverence for rank and police supervision. Living faith was destroyed.

Alive, fiery, joyful and diverse, like the surrounding world itself, Nikon and his supporters opposed faith with a dead, formal teaching, a fanatical expectation of the end of the world.

The Old Believers became the true heirs of the Russian faith. Their centers were "places of power" (holy places, nodal points in which God and nature talk to man), Solovki, Belomorsky Krai, Zaporozhye, the Urals and Siberia. For two centuries of persecution, the Old Believers who retreated to remote, remote places of Russia (like the Russian pagans several centuries before) did not break down. They became the core of the new economic structure in Russia. It was the strongest, healthiest and most harmoniously developed part of the Russian ethnos.

Thus, since the Great Schism, the people and the government have been irrevocably alienated from each other. The Russian Church is in decline. Peter I will complete the church "reform", destroy the institution of the patriarch, and subordinate the church to the state.

There is a gradual loss of living faith, a decline in the authority of the church. The people are beginning to despise the priests. Official Orthodoxy is degenerating, shrinking, becoming an appearance.

In the final we get the catastrophe of 1917-1920.

Exploded and destroyed temples. And the complete indifference of the people.


IN AND. Surikov. Boyarynya Morozova. 1884-1887
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
95 comments
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  1. apro
    apro 9 March 2021 04: 40
    +8
    This is something with something ... straight fantasy ... battle mages against black kings ...
    1. IPC 245
      IPC 245 9 March 2021 04: 59
      +16
      Today's second article in the "history" section is even trickier ..
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 10 March 2021 17: 12
        0
        Quote: IPC 245
        Today's second article in the "history" section is even trickier ..
        A doublet in history is not a "gallop through Europe": in whatever direction it moves, it will not go away. The haberdasher and the cardinal is strength.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 9 March 2021 05: 54
      +3
      All this can be read in the sources, but the most important question is: What differences between the old rite and the new were so radical that people would go to death defending the faith of their fathers?
      For some reason, the OI does not want to answer this question.
      1. apro
        apro 9 March 2021 05: 59
        +6
        Quote: Bar1
        And what differences between the old rite and the new were so radical that people would go to death defending the faith of their fathers?

        Not faith ... but property rights ... all because of the attendants. For the control of financial flows. For the proximity to the administrative resource.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 9 March 2021 06: 02
          -6
          Quote: apro
          Not faith ... but property rights ... all because of the attendants. For the control of financial flows. For the proximity to the administrative resource.


          no.
          The schism led to a large-scale civil war, when MILLIONS of people stood up against the Nikonian for the faith of the fathers and were persecuted and exterminated. And of course everything was not happening because of the golden calf.
          1. apro
            apro 9 March 2021 06: 09
            +1
            Quote: Bar1
            And of course it wasn't because of the golden calf.

            Of course I do ... I used to be the dominant church, but it became a sectarian church, and so for the faith ...
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 9 March 2021 06: 14
              -2
              Quote: apro
              and so yes for faith ...


              what kind of faith, in what, for what?
              1. dSK
                dSK 9 March 2021 08: 37
                +4
                Quote: Bar1
                what faith

                Into an immortal soul For 15 years I have been going to an Orthodox church, I have been baptized with two fingers (the Monk Sergius was baptized in this way, and even better) and no one ever made a single comment. The split has long been overcome. The main modern threat to Orthodoxy is ecumenism.
                Theologian Alexei Ilyich Osipov (he has many lectures on YouTube) called ecumenism -"a dumping sacred sin" ...
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 9 March 2021 22: 15
                  -1
                  Quote: dsk
                  The main modern threat to Orthodoxy is ecumenism.

                  Uh, my heart is relieved ... Hare you Krishna! And I was gray, a sinful thing, I thought that scientific atheism and its various demonic things, such as cosmogony, cosmology and other physics, with paleontology, archeology and anthropology, in addition. But no, priests, praise be to Allah. it turns out there are more important enemies.lol
                  1. dSK
                    dSK 10 March 2021 00: 33
                    -1
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    other physics,

                    these are sciences "about the body," not the immortal soul and the holy spirit.
                    Trying to compare "long" and "green" ...
          2. ism_ek
            ism_ek 9 March 2021 09: 39
            0
            Quote: Bar1
            when MILLIONS of people stood up against the Nikonian

            As a legacy from several centuries of feudal fragmentation and the Mongol yoke, we got a very fragmented church. There was no single church. There was a set of regional sects. In each region, people were baptized differently. The new political realities required the centralization of the church.
        2. Pravodel
          Pravodel 9 March 2021 08: 50
          +3
          ... ownership ... everything ... for the control of financial flows, for the proximity to the administrative resource

          In this quote, the only truth is that there are no accidents in history. All historical events are connected in one way or another and are based on economic reasons. Even if certain actions are determined by political reasons, all the same, economic reasons are at the basis of these political actions.
          The main question: why changes were necessary in the church, what is their reason.
          The answer is simple... With the Tatar-Mongol invasion, the Orthodox people of United Kievan Rus were divided into Great - Muscovite Rus, Malaya and Belaya Rus. In the separated regions, there was a change in church services, rituals and church books of Great - Moscow and Malaya and White Russia. Therefore, during the reign of Alexei Mikhailovich (the Quietest), when the reunification of Great - Moscow, White and Little Russia into the United Great Russia took place, the entry of the Orthodox of Little and White Russia under the wing of the mother of the church - the Church of Great Russia, then the church of Great Russia was perceived by the reuniting Orthodox as joining mother church, changes were required in church services, rituals and books, their reduction to uniformity, coordination of services, rituals and books of Great - Moscow, Malaya and White Russia. These were the reasons for all the transformations in the church during the reign of Alexei Mikhailovich.
          The unification of the Orthodox of Great, Small and White Russia could have happened without a split, but, as they say, what is, what should be eaten ... united Orthodox Church. The question of whether the process of centralization of the Orthodox Church could have taken place without a split remains open ... But it is obvious that the enmity of Nikon and Avvakum contributed a lot to the split.
          The split of the Orthodox Church cost the state, the Fatherland, and the Russian people dearly. The split of the Orthodox Church laid a mine at the foundation of the Russian state, which exploded in 1905 and 1917. It was the Old Believers, then the schismatics, who were the internal force that opposed the Russian state and fed the internal revolutionaries with money, their struggle against the godless government. Suffice it to recall Mamontov and his connection with the Bolsheviks ... And what is the money of the Old Believers? So these are the Morozovs, Ryabushinsky, Prokhorovs, Markovs, Maltsevs, Guchkovs, Tryndins, Tretyakovs and many others. Add, here, the merchants of the 1st guild, who were almost all Old Believers.
          Before the arrival of foreign capital, the Old Believers controlled 60% of the capital in the Russian Empire. 1867 55,7% of the production of Moscow and the Moscow district belonged to the Old Believers. By the way, Guchkov is the chairman of the Third State Duma (1910-1911); On March 2, 1917, together with V.V. Shulgin, he accepted the abdication of Nicholas II from the throne in Pskov.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 9 March 2021 12: 46
            -2
            Quote: The Truth
            It was the Old Believers, then the schismatics, who were the internal force that opposed the Russian state and fed the internal revolutionaries with money, their struggle against the godless government. Suffice it to recall Mamontov and his connection with the Bolsheviks ... And what is the money of the Old Believers? So these are the Morozovs, Ryabushinsky, Prokhorovs, Markovs, Maltsevs, Guchkovs, Tryndins, Tretyakovs and many others.

            Is there an opportunity to prove your words with facts?
            1. Pravodel
              Pravodel 9 March 2021 16: 38
              0
              Dear Novodlom, I am not engaged in the scientific study of church teachings and trends in Orthodoxy.
              Everything that is written above is information gleaned from open and published sources. But this is only information, not scientific knowledge. To translate information into scientific knowledge, you need to immerse yourself in theology and study various trends in Orthodoxy. And the answer to this, see above.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 9 March 2021 17: 42
                +1
                Quote: The Truth
                To translate information into scientific knowledge, you need to immerse yourself in theology and study various trends in Orthodoxy.

                I did not ask you to get into the jungle of theology.
                I just ask you to confirm that the names you have mentioned were related to the sponsorship of the revolution.
              2. Flooding
                Flooding 10 March 2021 07: 38
                -1
                I thought so.
                It is a pity that you so easily slander famous names.
                And the Tretyakov case is alive and well.
                Without regard to such unseemly actions.
                1. Pravodel
                  Pravodel 10 March 2021 08: 54
                  -1
                  It is a pity that you so easily slander famous names.

                  Dear Novodlom, please read carefully what is written, and only then resort to accusations.
                  Here's an excerpt for you:
                  The split of the Orthodox Church laid a mine at the foundation of the Russian state, which exploded in 1905 and 1917. It was the Old Believers, then the schismatics, who were the internal force that opposed the Russian state and fed the internal revolutionaries with money, their struggle against the godless government. Suffice it to recall Mamontov and his connection with the Bolsheviks ... And what is the money of the Old Believers? So these are the Morozovs, Ryabushinsky, Prokhorovs, Markovs, Maltsevs, Guchkovs, Tryndins, Tretyakovs and many others. Add, here, the merchants of the 1st guild, who were almost all Old Believers

                  By the way, Guchkov is the chairman of the Third State Duma (1910-1911); On March 2, 1917, together with V.V. Shulgin, he accepted the abdication of Nicholas II from the throne in Pskov.

                  I hope you do not need to confirm the information about the sovereign's abdication from the throne? ..
                  PS
                  For acquaintance, I recommend that you read in the archives what money was used to organize the strike in Russia in 1905 and the combat squads in 1905. You will see that it was definitely not the money of the workers who were dumped into a club ...
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 10 March 2021 09: 47
                    -1
                    You mentioned the finances of well-known Old Believer surnames in connection with the alleged financial support of these surnames for the revolution.
                    You have not provided confirmation of this.
                    And now you are sending me to the archives so that I can find confirmation of your words.
                    Don't you find it strange?
                    1. Pravodel
                      Pravodel 11 March 2021 07: 27
                      -1
                      Dear Novodlom, once again for those who do not know how to read, I quote a specific quote from the above
                      The split of the Orthodox Church laid a mine at the foundation of the Russian state, which exploded in 1905 and 1917. It was the Old Believers, then the schismatics, who were the internal force that opposed the Russian state and fed the internal revolutionaries with money, their struggle against the godless government. Suffice it to recall Mamontov and his connection with the Bolsheviks ... And what is the money of the Old Believers? So these are the Morozovs, Ryabushinsky, Prokhorovs, Markovs, Maltsevs, Guchkovs, Tryndins, Tretyakovs and many others. Add, here, the merchants of the 1st guild, who were almost all Old Believers

                      And I earnestly ask you to use rhetoric when communicating with the crowd at rallies or with protesters in front of the embassy of all the correct countries, but here it is better to use logic and do not misrepresent written ...
                      One should not substitute concepts and draw incorrect conclusions from what has been said.

                      In custody: Dear Novodlom, if you are collecting material for a dissertation or scientific article or for any other purpose of your own, please do it yourself, without immersing unknown people in your own problems.
                      This means that on this public, under the text of the posted article, there are too many of your requests for confirmation of evidence for the posted materials, which suggests that there is a purpose other than a simple search for evidence. Well, if this is only a search for truth, and not self-interest ... This is it, you yourself prove, but otherwise, all this is a lie ...
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 11 March 2021 07: 41
                        0
                        I understood you.
                        You insist that this quoted passage has a meaning from the possessing Old Believer merchants.
                        What is this meaning, you cannot clearly explain. And therefore you limit yourself to his constant quotation and pouring tubs of water.
                        It would be easier for you to write your original thought, if it was misunderstood, in a different, more readable and easily understandable form.
                        But, as it happens, you either find it impermissible for yourself to admit that you have expressed it inaccurately, meaning something else.
                        Or you simply cannot support your accusation with the Old Believers in the absence of such arguments. And instead of a reasoned answer, you treat your interlocutor with spreading abstract words.
                        Or - which is difficult to imagine - you really cannot understand that your words are read and understood in that unsightly form, which I have already written about many times.
                        All three options are bad for you.
                        Though the last one is the most honest and least shameful. Not everyone is equally good at writing.
                      2. Flooding
                        Flooding 11 March 2021 08: 02
                        0
                        Quote: The Truth
                        but here it is better to use logic and not misinterpret what is written ...
                        One should not substitute concepts and draw incorrect conclusions from what has been said.

                        and again, in order to avoid that very misunderstanding:
                        - if I misinterpreted your words, and you did not accuse the Old Believer surnames listed by you for financing the revolution, then logical would correct me and explain my position in a simpler and more accessible form.
                        It is much more logicalthan from one message to another to quote without modification just those words that - I admit this option - are misunderstood by me.
                        - if you actually blamed the names you listed, then you did it without any evidence and supporting facts. and my request to cite them in support of my denunciation and proof of my innocence is completely legitimate and fits into the rules of conducting a cultural discussion.
                        for these rules presuppose that any charge must be proven and not unfounded.
                        but this is the second time you suggest that I myself seek evidence for your unconfirmed statements.
                        Given the circumstances, I come to a disappointing conclusion: the rules of a civilized dispute are not valid with you. although this is not a discovery for me, I always expect the interlocutor to understand the obvious things.
                        stay with your
                      3. Pravodel
                        Pravodel 11 March 2021 16: 19
                        0
                        Dear Novodlom, I do not enter with you and do not conduct any discussion, let alone a dispute. Everything I wanted to say, see above. Likewise with evidence, logic and rhetoric.
                        On this, I end the dialogue: everything has already been said, there is nothing more to add.
                2. Flooding
                  Flooding 10 March 2021 09: 50
                  -1
                  Quote: The Truth
                  I hope you do not need to confirm the information about the sovereign's abdication from the throne? ..

                  A completely helpless attempt to wriggle out. The fact that one of the Guchkovs was directly related to the Provisional Government is beyond doubt.
                  But does this somehow justify the vain that you elevated to well-known Old Believer surnames?
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 9 March 2021 10: 45
        +1
        Quote: apro
        Quote: Bar1
        And what differences between the old rite and the new were so radical that people would go to death defending the faith of their fathers?

        Not faith ... but property rights ... all because of the attendants. For the control of financial flows. For the proximity to the administrative resource.

        For a true Faith, if it really is real, any distortion of traditions is unacceptable.
        And "money / financial flows" has nothing to do with it.
        And the difference between Old Believers and modern Christians is very significant. And it even consists not so much in religious rituals as in the way of life, in the sense of life.
        In the Old Believers, a categorical rejection of tobacco products and alcoholic beverages has been approved.
        Source: https://omolitvah.ru/eto-interesno/chem-otlichayutsya-starovery-ot-pravoslavnyh-hristian

        Several years ago I was lucky enough to meet and talk with a real Old Believer. It is an unforgettable experience for a lifetime. These people are not just from another country, they are from another planet ... It is not easy for a modern person to understand them, and even more so to accept this faith and live with it. But they have a lot to learn ...
    3. Proxima
      Proxima 9 March 2021 10: 36
      +4
      Quote: Bar1
      And what differences between the old rite and the new were so radical that people would go to death defending the faith of their fathers?

      The differences are insignificant and acceptable. This was directly told in Constantinople to the maniac Nikon. But for some reason the author of the article does not agree with this. In his understanding, the Old Faith is correct and pious, but the New, that is, the present Orthodoxy, is "dead" and incorrect.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 13 March 2021 18: 00
        +1
        Quote: Proxima
        The differences are insignificant and acceptable.

        only today I was able to watch a video on the topic
        not for the sake of disputes, but only for information
        if interested, see the whole
        I would like to highlight one episode that most fully, in my opinion, formulates the point of view of the Old Believer of that time
        S 16: 35
    4. astepanov
      astepanov 9 March 2021 10: 52
      +6
      All these groans about "primordial holy Orthodoxy" are not worth a dime. Loot and power ruled and steered everywhere. Nikon's reforms were aimed at unifying rituals and standardizing the management process, and nothing more. They touched on an insignificant part of religious life, but they were one of the last drops that overflowed the cup of the people's patience. The Church was the largest landowner and the largest slave owner in Russia. The hardships of the monastic peasants were heavier than the landlord peasants. Monastic peasants often initiated and participated in anti-serf uprisings. Similar disturbances are known in 1550 in the Adrian's Hermitage, in 1594-1595 in the Joseph-Volokolamsk monastery, in 1577-1578 in the Anthony-Siysky monastery, etc. In the XNUMXth century, the monastic peasants participated in the Peasant War under the leadership of Stepan Razin.
      And the current flirting of the state with the church will not lead to anything good. If it goes the way it is now, then even the Saudis and the Iranians will reproach us for theocratism.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 9 March 2021 12: 42
        -6
        Quote: astepanov
        Nikon's reforms were aimed at unifying rituals and standardizing the management process, and nothing more.

        The ceremonies were not unified?
        Was the management not standardized?
        Can you confirm these statements of yours?
        1. astepanov
          astepanov 9 March 2021 13: 07
          +2
          Quote: Flood
          The ceremonies were not unified?
          Was the management not standardized?
          Can you confirm these statements of yours?

          Can you read? Show me where I wrote that none of this was done. Despite the cruel nature of Nikon's reforms and his (allegedly) punishment by the Quiet, the reform was adopted from above, because its goal - to strengthen the secular and spiritual power and further enslave the people - equally suited the top of the clergy and the tsar and the nobility. And the persecution of the Old Believers, despite the cosmetic softening of the attitude towards them during the time of Catherine II, continued until 1905. In particular, draconian taxation measures were applied to them. And in our time, despite the formal equality and the "request for forgiveness" from the official church, there is no equality.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 9 March 2021 14: 06
            -3
            Quote: astepanov
            Can you read? Show me where I wrote that this was not done

            your next question will be: how many characters per minute?
            what was written by you above
            Quote: astepanov
            Nikon's reforms were aimed at unifying rituals and standardizing the management process, and nothing more.

            means that the reform was aimed at what was already planned earlier?
            okay. I will not argue
    5. Flooding
      Flooding 9 March 2021 12: 41
      -3
      Quote: Bar1
      And what differences between the old rite and the new were so radical that people would go to death defending the faith of their fathers?

      And what concessions, in your opinion, is it permissible to make in this matter?
      Even if two fingers contain important meanings for believers.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 9 March 2021 17: 30
        -2
        Quote: Flood
        And what concessions, in your opinion, is it permissible to make in this matter?
        Even if two fingers contain important meanings for believers.


        I have already cited the example of THAT LIFE, when people did not die, but froze between life and death. An example of Lama Itigelov, who has been sleeping since the 20s of the 20th century in a state of neither dead nor alive.
        Anyone interested in such phenomena? Nobody is interested. Then I said that that life was imbued with such opportunities.
        There is a book "The journey of priest Lukyanov to the Holy Land" 1701. So, passing the city of Kiev, he visited the Pechersky Monastery of the Antoniev Cave and there he saw "the holy graces, like stars in the sky, who slept and did not wake up," i.e., in the same state as Itigelov.
        Anyone interested in such a life?
        And you are all two-fingered.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 9 March 2021 17: 44
          0
          Quote: Bar1

          I have already cited the example of THAT LIFE, when people did not die, but froze between life and death. An example of Lama Itigelov, who has been sleeping since the 20s of the 20th century in a state of neither dead nor alive.
          Anyone interested in such phenomena? Nobody is interested. Then I said that that life was imbued with such opportunities.

          strange that you are asking serious questions
          but you shy away from answering counter-questions.
          because you didn't answer me.
          1. dSK
            dSK 10 March 2021 01: 02
            +1
            The bomb that blew up the dynasty laid Peter I, liquidating the patriarchate and leading the church. This gross violation of the basic Christian canons, the management of the Synod by officials led to formal observance of rituals, mass mysticism, at the academy, theologians did not believe in God ...
            This is the same if you put a dumb official at the head of the Academy of Sciences.
            Nicholas II was repeatedly offered to organize the election of the Patriarch, but he did not dare, under the influence of the head of the Synod Pobedonostsev. The mighty oak of the Church outside, eaten by bark beetles, collapsed.
            And only the Council of 1917-18 elected Patriarch Metropolitan Tikhon. At that time it was a "raster" position and in the elections all random candidates bounced themselves ...
  • Free wind
    Free wind 9 March 2021 05: 31
    +9
    Some cross with two fingers, one with three, one with a palm, but they pray to the son of God and his mother. The people were killed ...
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 9 March 2021 08: 21
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      Some cross with two fingers, one with three, one with a palm, but they pray to the son of God and his mother. The people were killed ...

      It is somehow vaguely said. Here it is not necessary to count fingers, but palms and hands "grabbing" ...
      Not only did Russia spend colossal money on the war, but the patriarch took huge sums to build his residences, temples and monasteries.

      (Almost exactly the same as today.)
      And as a result, the funeral will cost at least 50 thousand (or buried in an unnamed area at public expense).
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 March 2021 05: 40
    +3
    The Old Believers became the true heirs of the Russian faith. Their centers were "places of power" (holy places, nodal points in which God and nature talk to man), Solovki, Belomorsky Krai, Zaporozhye, the Urals and Siberia. For two centuries of persecution, the Old Believers who retreated to remote, remote places of Russia (like the Russian pagans several centuries before) did not break down. They became the core of the new economic structure in Russia. It was the strongest, healthiest and most harmoniously developed part of the Russian ethnos.

    I will give just one example from my life. In 2015, on Easter, my staff guarded churches and parishioners celebrating this bright holiday. The only church that was not allowed to warm up at night for the girls of the employees was the Old Believer on the Visa.
    And you are then about healthy and urban development!
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 9 March 2021 05: 48
      +1
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      The only church that was not allowed to warm up at night for the girls of the employees was the Old Believer on the Visa.

      They sacredly observe their modesty. And in the rest of the temples the girls were warmed, as I understand it?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 March 2021 06: 39
        +6
        Yes, there were no problems with this. In the center on Lenin Street, the guys and girls who were killed even regaled them with pies with porridge. On the Chusovo tract, the priest allowed him to sleep alongside and he himself guarded their peace. In principle, none of the clergymen (I am talking about a personal example, for a quarter of a century of service), no matter what faith (Orthodox, Lutherans, Muslims, Catholics, Armenian Church, or even rabbis) refused to shelter the employees who served to protect them! At least a cake, tea, a bun or a bowl of pilaf were always brought and even offended when someone refused. This also applies to organizers of other holidays from Sabantui to May 9 or the day of the city.
        “Did the boys and girls eat your boss? Ay-ya-yay to Mustafa in the tent three lead, we will take turns feeding! What money, dear, you are protecting us, everyone has a holiday, and you have a service. You want to offend the boss! "
        Even in mosques, where a mule is not allowed in shoes and women, he would find some kind of kandeyka where the servicemen could rest.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 9 March 2021 06: 54
          +2
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Even in mosques, where women and shoes are not allowed

          Tudy and peasants like it is impossible in shoes. World Bank head in Turkish mosque:
        2. Evdokim
          Evdokim 9 March 2021 07: 10
          +3
          Your comment is a direct answer to the question, where is the priest, and where is the holy man?
          And it doesn't matter whether he is a rabbi or a mullah. hi
        3. Richard
          Richard 9 March 2021 07: 23
          0
          Author:Nikon raised a scandal. Appeared to the sovereign, threatened that he would "shake off the dust from his feet"

          Nikon was an anti-monarchist revolutionary yes
          straight one to one:
          Renounce the old world
          Shake his ashes off our feet!
          Golden idols are hostile to us,
          We hate the royal palace. (from)
          Marseillaise
    2. Moskovit
      Moskovit 9 March 2021 07: 38
      +2
      Forgive them. Under pressure, they have essentially become a sect. And in sects they do not like strangers)
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 9 March 2021 08: 18
        +2
        Quote: Moskovit
        they have become essentially a sect. And in sects they don't like strangers

        What is a sect:

        At least five characteristic features are characteristic of all sects without exception, regardless of their age and number of participants:
        - the presence of esoteric and exoteric teachings, which in Russian means: in a sect there is always a teaching for the crowd and a teaching for the elect - the initiated hierarchs.
        - the presence of certain doctrines that are not subject to discussion and should be accepted by the adherents of the doctrine as true without any doubts and reasoning.
        - the presence of a ritual that accompanies any meeting of representatives of the sect and is actually a means of zombifying their psyche.
        - the existence of an arbitrarily ramified hierarchy, to enter into an argument with which according to the basic doctrines of the sect's teachings is strictly prohibited.
        - since the doctrine of the sect is based on dogmas that are not subject to discussion, then there is no and cannot be a place in it for the formation of a personal culture of mastering new knowledge (there is no method of mastering) and a meaningful attitude to Life according to conscience.

        Now guess from three times where we have a sect?
      2. Flooding
        Flooding 10 March 2021 15: 58
        0
        Quote: Moskovit
        Forgive them. Under pressure, they have essentially become a sect. And in sects they do not like strangers)

        Do not fence in nonsense.
        1. Moskovit
          Moskovit 11 March 2021 00: 57
          0
          Do not fence nonsense
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 11 March 2021 07: 27
            0
            Quote: Moskovit
            Do not fence nonsense

            You don't know what a sect is.
            And you think that any community that adheres to strict rules that are alien to you personally can be called a sect.
            But it is not.
            1. Moskovit
              Moskovit 11 March 2021 12: 45
              0
              This is what our pillars of the Russian language say:
              VI Dal defined the word "sect" as "a brotherhood that has adopted its own, separate doctrine of faith; agreement, sense, schism or heresy "(indicating that the word originated from the French language)
              DN Ushakov defined the word "sect" as "1. a religious community made up of people who broke away from the mainstream church and adopted a new faith
              2. transfer. A group of people who are fenced off from communication with others, closed in themselves "
              S.I. Ozhegov: sect - 1) a religious association, separated from some creed and opposed to it
              2) a group of people who are isolated in their small, narrow interests.

              So it's essentially a sect. And regarding not being allowed into the temple, I will cite a passage from the 12th chapter of the Gospel of Matthew:

              At that time Jesus was passing by on the Sabbath sown fields; His disciples were hungry and began to pluck ears of corn and eat.

              2 The Pharisees, seeing this, said to him, Behold, your disciples are doing what they ought not to do on the sabbath.

              3 And he said to them, Haven't you read what David did when he was hungry, he and those with him?

              4 How did he enter the house of God and eat the bread of the offering, which was not to be eaten either by him or by those who were with him, but only by the priests?

              5 Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbaths the priests in the temple break the sabbath but are innocent?

              6 But I tell you that there is one greater than the temple;

              7 if you knew what it means: “I want mercy, not sacrifice,” you would not condemn the innocent,
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 11 March 2021 12: 59
                0
                Quote: Moskovit
                This is what our pillars of the Russian language say:
                VI Dal defined the word "sect" as "a brotherhood that has adopted its own, separate doctrine of faith; agreement, sense, schism or heresy "

                it was already possible to stop at this
                since the Old Believers did not commit a schism, they did not follow heresies and did not separate from the faith of the fathers.
                1. Moskovit
                  Moskovit 11 March 2021 13: 38
                  0
                  The ROC thinks exactly the opposite. And the Old Believers consider the ROC to be heretics. So the truth is difficult to establish.
                  But to refuse to help your neighbor is not like a Christian.
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 11 March 2021 13: 40
                    0
                    Quote: Moskovit
                    The Russian Orthodox Church believes exactly the opposite

                    no longer counts. those days have passed, and the ROC recognized the old rituals as equally salvageable.
                    1. Moskovit
                      Moskovit 11 March 2021 16: 55
                      0
                      The ROC wants to take them under its wing, which is why it is so tolerant of them. But the Old Believers are much more intolerant of the New Believers.
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 11 March 2021 17: 01
                        0
                        Dear Moskovit,
                        I am well aware of the situation, so I suggest not to butt to the worn foreheads.
                        Only I ask you not to brand it without thinking.
                        All the best to you.
    3. Flooding
      Flooding 10 March 2021 15: 57
      0
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      The only church that was not allowed to warm up at night for the girls of the employees was the Old Believer on the Visa.

      Women without long skirts and a scarf on their heads are not allowed into the Old Believers' temple.
      This is an ironclad rule.
  • bya965
    bya965 9 March 2021 06: 02
    +13
    Both "the most holy" and "the quietest" "were terribly far from the people", they did not care about him. As now, because in 17 they were robbed and beaten first of all, either by peasants or by workers. It's just that this topic is under an unspoken ban.
    The church was the largest landowner and the richest, and a lot of people worked for it, and since they worked for the faith, they were paid even less.

    Analogy Tibet. I will quote the Chinese.
    “For four centuries, Tibet was ruled by a feudal serf theocracy. Millions of slaves were brutally exploited and oppressed until democratic reforms began in 1959, ”reads Democratic Reforms in Tibet: 60 Years Later, published by the PRC State Council Information Bureau.

    There, in general, 90% of the population were practically slaves (that is, slaves, simply slaves) of this very peaceful religion.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 9 March 2021 10: 59
      0
      Quote: bya965
      their in 17 year first of all, they robbed and beat up both peasants and workers.

      Lying.

      This is anti-people power killed more one hundred ten thousand clergy and she destroyed tens of thousands of churches , not the people.

      in Shuya on March 15, 1922, a crowd of agitated believers resisted the authorities, defending their temple. By the crowd on the square in front of the Resurrection Cathedral of the city machine gun fire was opened... On the part of the believers, dozens of killed and wounded.

      chastener of the Ulyans:
      “With the most frenzied and merciless energy, without stopping to suppress any resistance, ... to give the most decisive and merciless battle to the Black Hundred clergy and suppress their resistance with so cruel that they will not forget it for several decades ... The more representatives of the reactionary bourgeoisie and reactionary clergy we manage to shoot on this occasion, the better. "

      And they pressed, shot, and exiled the Orthodox people for their faith, but still they resisted (examples on Istmat, VO, etc.), and as soon as the authorities weakened the repression-the people of the church revived, restored the most valuable churches and monuments of Russian culture and Glory, destroyed barbarians.
      Quote: bya965
      The church was the largest landowner

      Lie: learn what it is secularization monastery lands of the 18-19th century and you will find out that by 1917 the Church had 0,5% of the farmland in Russia.
      1. bya965
        bya965 9 March 2021 12: 43
        +2
        Quote: Olgovich
        Lying.

        This anti-people government killed more than one hundred and ten thousand priests and it destroyed tens of thousands of churches, not the people.

        Here about the killing of priests
        https://cont.ws/@oper1971/1515569

        Quote: Olgovich
        You are lying: learn what the secularization of the monastic lands of the 18-19th century is and learn that by 1917 the Church had 0,5% of the farmland in Russia.

        Plenty of land is different. The church had better lands. In the villages they fought for pasture meadows because of a stable and good harvest.

        In general, it is not customary to write about the robbery of priests and monasteries in 1917 by the poor people, without any Bolsheviks. Not the Bolsheviks themselves (they did not lead), not the Russian Orthodox Church, it was as if the people were robbing.

        This painting by the famous artist Konstantin Vasiliev (https://www.wikiart.org/ru/konstantin-vasilev) cannot be found in his albums published by Doronin, nor can you find in Internet selections. It is not on the walls of the Kazan Museum of the artist, just as it was not on the walls of the deceased Moscow Museum. But there is, based on an old epic about Ilya Muromets.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 9 March 2021 13: 51
          -3
          Quote: bya965
          Here about the killing of priests
          https://cont.ws/@oper1971/1515569

          author Alexey T. Oper- a propagandist who worked at the same time at the same time.

          Its links to ..... the so-called. "sources" conscience propagandistseggs are not worth a damn

          According to "Government Commission for the Rehabilitation of Victims of Political Repression", only in the period from 1937 to 1941 were arrested 175,8 thousand priests, of which 110,7 thousand people were shot.
          Quote: bya965
          Plenty of land is different. The church had better lands. In the villages they fought for pasture meadows because of a stable and good harvest.

          prove yours about the best lands, your lie about the "largest" landowner has already been shown: 0,5% of all land had a Church. It's nothing.
          Quote: bya965
          here, as it were people robbed.

          Yes Yes :

          13:15 In St. Petersburg, a branch of Sberbank was robbed
          December 25 2020
          16:31 Director Galina Yevtushenko was robbed in Moscow
          December 23 2020
          10:52 In Krasnodar, unidentified persons robbed a bank branch
          December 19 2020
          00:04 In a Moscow restaurant, a businessman was robbed for 15 million rubles
          December 15 2020
          etc.

          if gangsters for you people, yes, they are
          Quote: bya965
          the famous artist Konstantin Vasiliev (https://www.wikiart.org/ru/konstantin-vasilev)

          it's not strange for you to refer to a person who was just born in .... 1942 d and nothing about the demolition of churches, the mood and the process even and could not know anything (except for propaganda)?
          1. bya965
            bya965 9 March 2021 14: 21
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            if bandits are people for you, yes, he

            This is the bandits in the church are, sins forgive themselves. I and my Russian people are trying to live according to our conscience, but it cannot be brought in.

            Quote: Olgovich
            Isn't it strange for you to refer to a person who was just born in ... 1942 and could not even know anything about the demolitions of churches, moods and the process (except for propaganda)?

            That's what I meant. By the way, I have not seen living dinosaurs either.

            ABOUT ILYA AND PRINCE VLADIMIR
            IN THE STOLNY CITY OF KIEV, Prince Vladimir had an honorary feast. Vladimir Stolnokievsky called in all the princes, boyars, and mighty Russian heroes, but he forgot to call Ilya Muromets. Ilya was angry and angry. He went through the city of Kiev, drew a bursting bow, adjusted red-hot arrows. The silk bowstring rang - Ilya began to shoot at the churches, at the wonderful crosses. He knocked gilded domes from churches, and broke off the silver crosses. And Ilya shouted in a loud voice:

            - Oh, you goli, erratic goli, ah you princely smerds! Collect you gilded poppies, collect silver crosses and carry everything to the kissing people. Ilya invites you to a peasant feast, and the peasant feast will be sweeter than the prince's one. Come to the feast, all and sundry, Ilya Muromets, a peasant's son, treats you.

            Goli erratic gathered, princely smerds gathered. The barrels were rolled out onto the square, the tables were taken out of the taverns, and a feast went up to the square. The buffoons began to play pipes, the honest people danced to the tambourines.

            The princely servants reported to Vladimir Yasnoe Solnyshko:

            - Ah, you are Prince Vladimir! While you are drinking and eating at an honest feast with your princes, and boyars, and with the Russian heroes, Ilya Muromets dispersed and fumbled. He knocked off gilded domes and silver crosses from churches, and now he held a peasant feast on the main square, where he collected all the rolling peck, the poor village.

            ......
          2. BAI
            BAI 9 March 2021 22: 30
            -1
            your lie about the "largest" landowner has already been shown: 0,5% of all land was owned by the Church. It's nothing.

            At the time of 1917, the Church was the largest landownerwhile also owning other assets. All rural churches were endowed with plots of land - 36 acres each, taken from the landowners by Catherine II. For comparison: by 1900, the average size of land allotment per capita for the male population in all provinces of the European part of Russia was 2,6 tithes. Larger plots were provided only to the settlers. So, in the Far East, for one combatant Cossack, the Ussuri Cossack army over 17 years old was provided with 30 dessiatines. New Life Newspaper in January 1918 of the year pointed out that in the country there are up to 42.000 churches owning 2.271.000 acres of land. There are about 1000 monasteries in Russia, the area of ​​monastic land ownership was determined at 802.436 dessiatines. Of them under the monastery estates - 179.388 dessiatines, meadow - 87.000 dessiatines, occupied by orchards and vineyards - 3.349 dessiatines, garden - 3.726 dessiatines, forest lands - 308.397 dessiatines, inconvenient lands - 107.758 dessiatines.


            Peasants owned 141 acres of land (in 530). The church owned about 000 tithes (in 1900!) - 3% compared to the multimillion peasantry (000 tithes per adult man, and the family had a wife and numerous children).
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 10 March 2021 09: 12
              0
              Quote: BAI
              Peasants owned 141 acres of land (in 530). The church owned about 000 dessiatines (in 1900!) -

              learn what AGRICULTURE is
      2. Richard
        Richard 9 March 2021 13: 14
        +1
        Resurrection Cathedral in Shuya

        Greetings Andrew hi
        The site of the early Middle Ages has been known since 1425. And opposite it from 1810 there was a 106-meter bell tower. In the early 30s, the cathedral was destroyed, but the bell tower was left; today it is the tallest free-standing bell tower in the world, and the second tallest bell tower in Russia. Above it is only the Peter and Paul Bell Tower in St. Petersburg (120 meters).
        a photoThe main bell weighing 1270 pounds (20802,6 kg.) Was raised on May 19, 1891 with a huge crowd of people
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 9 March 2021 13: 58
          0
          Quote: Richard
          the second tallest bell tower in Russia. Above it is only the Peter and Paul Bell Tower in St. Petersburg (120 meters).

          Hello Dmitry! hi

          Thank you.

          there is another opinion about the second place:

          107 m Bell tower of Kazan Mother of God Monastery Tambov Russia
          106м Bell tower of the Resurrection Cathedral Shuya Russia
  • oracul
    oracul 9 March 2021 06: 33
    +2
    Evaluating the history of the Fatherland, one cannot slide on the surface. It is naive to simplify everything to ritualism, but the fact that the spiritual heritage of ancestors was destroyed and the Old Believers stood for its preservation is true. And again, the customary, as now - adherence of some of our people to foreign canons. How familiar!
    1. Mantykora
      Mantykora 9 March 2021 07: 23
      +8
      Well, before that, the people were broken through the knee by the adoption of Christianity, Christianity became a truly universal religion in Russia only by the 14-15th century, i.e. 400 years later, after many generations.
      Who now, without a search engine, will name the five Slavic gods and what are they responsible for? The Slavs also had their own Valhalla - Iriy, the daughter of Perun, and not the Valkyries, carried the soldiers there. Plus, she kissed a warrior if he died with a sword in his hand. But we all know about the gods of Hellas, Rome and the Vikings. We keep the memory of our ancestors, what! Look, from the latter - the persecution of Stalin, hypocrisy and perversion of the Victory Day.
      And the change of state religion and splits are primarily economic, the struggle for money. The people are on the sidelines, as is logic with justice.
      1. Obliterator
        Obliterator 9 March 2021 13: 29
        +2
        Quote: Mantykora
        Well, before that, the people were broken through the knee by the adoption of Christianity, Christianity became a truly universal religion in Russia only by the 14-15th century, i.e. 400 years later, after many generations.
        Who now, without a search engine, will name the five Slavic gods and what are they responsible for? The Slavs also had their own Valhalla - Iriy, the daughter of Perun, and not the Valkyries, carried the soldiers there. Plus, she kissed a warrior if he died with a sword in his hand. But we all know about the gods of Hellas, Rome and the Vikings. We keep the memory of our ancestors, what! Look, from the latter - the persecution of Stalin, hypocrisy and perversion of the Victory Day.

        Yes, there would be something to remember - about these very Slavic gods we know a little more than nothing. The Greeks, Romans and Vikings, to their credit, have their own epics in which their gods were revealed. In the case of Slavic, we only know the names.
        Quote: Mantykora
        And the change of state religion and splits are primarily economic, the struggle for money. The people are on the sidelines, as is logic with justice.

        Diplomacy yet. In medieval Europe, it was somehow not very fashionable to be a pagan. A competent politician should understand that Christian kings will not want to deal with pagans, and Muslims will not appreciate it either.
      2. Vlad world
        Vlad world 10 March 2021 00: 21
        0
        You look - they broke through the knee planting Christianity. And where are the millions of victims - as they usually write after the knee.
        1 The breaking population called the sorcerer Nightingale - a robber. I wonder why !!! so called. (Historical person who later died in the monastery.) And since then the Nightingale the robber has been walking. Yes, for reference, the meaning of the word “robber” in those days (like baptism) was somewhat different. Different from modern.
        2 Ask - When and at what cathedral the language of Russ became Equally Apostolic. The language in which it was possible to conduct church services and write holy books. I'm sure there will be surprise.
        Why don't I write the date and place of the cathedral? So when you dig it yourself, it’s more interesting and useful.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 9 March 2021 07: 24
    +5
    Samsonov needs to write the book Legends and Myths of Ancient Russia.
    Do you become holier from two fingers? Is it wiser from three fingers?
    Klyuchevsky on the split:
    Nikon did not rebuild the church order in any new spirit and direction, but only replaced one church form with another. The very idea of ​​the universal church, in whose name this noisy deed was undertaken, he understood too narrowly, in a schismatic manner, from the external ritual side, and was unable to either bring into the consciousness of the Russian church society a broader view of the universal church, nor consolidate it with some kind of or by an ecumenical conciliar decree and ended the whole matter by cursing the Eastern patriarchs who tried him in person with the Sultan's slaves, vagabonds and thieves: jealous of the unity of the ecumenical church, he split his local one. The main string of the mood of the Russian ecclesiastical society, the inertness of religious feeling, strained too tightly by Nikon, breaking off, painfully whipped both himself and the ruling Russian hierarchy, which approved of his work. <…> The church storm raised by Nikon far from overwhelmed the entire Russian church society. The split began among the Russian clergy, and the struggle at first was actually between the Russian ruling hierarchy and that part of church society that was carried away by the opposition against Nikon's ritual innovations, led by agitators from the subordinate white and black clergy. <...> A suspicious attitude towards the West was widespread throughout Russian society and even in its ruling circles, who especially easily succumbed to Western influence, native antiquity had not yet lost its charm. This slowed down the transformational movement, weakened the energy of innovators. The schism has dropped the authority of antiquity, raising in its name a rebellion against the church, and in connection with it, against the state. Most of the Russian church society has now seen what bad feelings and inclinations this antiquity can bring up and what dangers blind attachment to it threatens. The leaders of the reform movement, who were still hesitating between their old days and the West, now, with a lightened conscience, more decisively and boldly went their own way. "
  • Boris55
    Boris55 9 March 2021 08: 24
    -2
    Before Nikon, the Romanovs imposed slavery (serfdom) on Russia. The new relationship had to be fixed and a definite ideological basis had to be put under them. This is exactly what Nikon did. This is exactly what the Magi and the people opposed, starting with the "Solovetsky inmates", Razin's riots and the execution of the archers.



    This confrontation continues today.
    As an echo of that - we have both the ROC and the RPSTs.
    1. Vlad world
      Vlad world 10 March 2021 00: 27
      0
      In general, the cancellation of St. George's Day happened before the Romanovs.
      You need to know history.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 9 March 2021 08: 28
    +3
    For some reason, it is generally accepted that it was Patriarch Nikon who began to reform church life, although they began to embody the church reform itself even before his reformist activities - by Patriarch Joseph, the tsar's entourage, his confessor Archpriest Stephen and Alexei Mikhailovich himself.
    "Reforms of Patriarch Nikon" thus became a stamp.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 9 March 2021 08: 50
      -5
      Quote: bober1982
      they began to embody the church reform itself even before his reformatory activities

      Then you really need to start from the beginning of baptism, when they radically changed one faith to another - from Russian to Western.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 March 2021 14: 59
        +7
        Quote: Boris55
        Then you really need to start from the beginning of baptism, when they radically changed one faith to another - from Russian to Western.



        I have already laid out the "neo-pagan temple of the Slavic gods" on the territory of the Olenyi Ruchyi nature park in the Sverdlovsk region.
        The earliest Russian settlement to the above-described place appears in 1743! Russia has been Orthodox for eight centuries already, even from the moment of the split it should strike like 75 years! And what "Slavic temple" could appear there in principle? Komi-Perm, Vogul, Ostyak, Pelym or Kond - yes, as well as places of worship of Gamayun and other ancient cultures, but there is definitely no Slavic and even less Russian.
        Suffering about the loss of "pagan Rus" is relevant within the boundaries of the Slavic tribes: Polyans, Drevlyans, Northerners, etc. But they do not have a spiritual basis within Christian Rus !!!
        So the Old Believers, persecuted by the tsars outside the boundaries of Russia of that sample of 1675, expanded its Orthodox boundaries. Paradox? Yes! But a modern pagan is an obvious nonsense !!! Go along the kamal to the path, with the help of the cock's giblets. At least the administrative protocol will be drawn up for cruelty to animals.
        1. Vlad world
          Vlad world 10 March 2021 00: 36
          0
          So these guardians do not know not only the history of the spread of Christianity in Russia, but also the very history of paganism.
          Although professional historians - candidates of science - had a hand in the beginning of neo-paganism.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 March 2021 19: 07
            0
            Quote: Vlad-world
            Although professional historians - candidates of science - had a hand in the beginning of neo-paganism.

            Dear Vladimir, mind games are good, but in everything there must be a measure or elementary rationality. When promoting the Slavic pantheon of pagan gods, at least it must be remembered that he allowed human sacrifice. Many of the reenactors are ready for this, or kill a lamb?
            1. Vlad world
              Vlad world 10 March 2021 19: 24
              +1
              I didn’t understand --- when I was propagandizing the pagans !!!
              Kindly show when it was !!!
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 March 2021 19: 35
                0
                Vladimir, I have trite developed your theme!
                Oh God, you thought that I was like our sofa hamsters and accused you of promoting paganism! No way. I liked your comment and I supplemented it with my own content.
                "The cat eats hamsters, but listens to smart people." With all due respect.
                1. Vlad world
                  Vlad world 10 March 2021 20: 48
                  +1
                  Okay, apologies accepted. Just some time ago I had to "fight" on the same site with neo-pagans. Painfully zealously, they declared themselves "defenders" of the Russians. So I looked who is who. So a couple of leaders (hereditary wise men) were candidates for history.
                  True, later in the Donbass, some of the zealous fought against the Russians and showed their true nature.
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 9 March 2021 09: 51
    +5
    That is, if they had kept the baptism with two fingers, there would have been no revolution ?! It turns out that it was the church before Nikon that acted as a force limiting power ?! And nothing that most of the village priests were illiterate, and such a mess reigned in church affairs that there was no need to talk about some kind of "Christianity". The Church, like any organization, especially one that builds its influence on "fairy tales", must be effective - collecting dough, defending its influence and privileges. Alexey Mikhailovich began to build, and quite successfully, the State, and it would be simply unacceptable to allow such a mess in the church. Russia was losing to its competitors in Europe, hence the reforms that are still going on. The Church also lost in comparison with Catholicism and with Southern Orthodoxy. priests from "Ukraine" were constantly faced with Catholic visits - remember how the majority of the "Orthodox" Lithuanian nobility became catholic and what was the answer of the "holy" Russi? The church must meet the challenges of the day. So they began to redo it.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 9 March 2021 10: 55
    +5
    Nikon believed that this did not concern him. Again demanded in a large order a large sum for the construction of New Jerusalem
    Site authors compete in historical ignorance. Such an institution as a "big order" never existed, there was a Palace order or the Order of the Big Palace, or the Grand Palace. But the palace order was not in charge of state finances, they were in charge of the Order of the Great Parish, the Order of the New Quarter, or the New Chet and the Order of the Grand Treasury.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 9 March 2021 12: 07
    +3
    Not only did Russia spend colossal money on the war, but the patriarch took huge sums to build his residences, temples and monasteries.
    Just like the Pension Fund, there is no money, but we are building new "Palaces" for PFR workers ...
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 9 March 2021 21: 16
      0
      Yeah, and the Russian Orthodox Church trades in precious metals and vodka and oil industry with minimal or no duties. The church has no money. Have you seen Cyril's watch?
    2. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 9 March 2021 21: 47
      0
      Yesterday I talked with an employee of the Pension Fund (a friend's wife), they themselves understand all this, they are afraid that their gang / Lake will be replaced by an algorithm that automatically assigns and calculates pensions. I hope it will be very soon, although it can be implemented conditionally the day after tomorrow.
  • Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 9 March 2021 15: 57
    +2
    as a few centuries before the Russian pagans

    Well, where are these ancient Slavic pagans, "who did not break"?
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 9 March 2021 21: 49
      0
      In PMCs, it is quite common, as far as I know. However, there is no special meaning, God is one, and you can call him Rod.
      1. Terran ghost
        Terran ghost 10 March 2021 10: 46
        +1
        You understand what's the matter. There is a "slight" difference between the ancient religious tradition that has survived (in a particular community of people) to this day (for example, as in the case of the same Zoroastrianism in Iran), and a later one by historical standards (20th - early 21st century ) "a very free reconstruction", which is in fact within the framework of the broader religious movement "New Age".
        1. Victor Tsenin
          Victor Tsenin 10 March 2021 13: 16
          0
          So yes, that's why neo-pagans are called in our case.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 9 March 2021 21: 13
    0
    I read somewhere that free peasants did not really like any elders who came to their land. For a reason, first one, after novices and pilgrims are pulled up, a church is formed, behind it what kind of skete-monastery is formed, and as a result, all the surrounding peasants who are free to the village, at the request of this monastery, are already attributed to serfs to this institution with all the charms of the Russian serfdom ...
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 9 March 2021 21: 40
    +1
    > The best, most persistent and spirited part of the people went into a split.
    On what basis was this deepest conclusion made? Really incomprehensible, than the old Russian citizen, covering himself with two fingers is worse / better?

    > Nikonians reduced the tradition of the Russian faith to the nationalization of the church, bureaucracy, reverence for rank and police supervision. Living faith was destroyed.
    Before this conditional Rubicon, in your opinion, the church did not sing praises to the kings and was not arranged in a system of power? This is a rhetorical question.

    > Exploded and destroyed temples. And the complete indifference of the people.
    Why are they making holes in the ancient cathedral? - Because for a hundred years here an obese priest, hiccupping, took bribes and sold vodka. Why shit in the dear to heart noble estates? - Because the girls were raped and flogged there: the wrong master's, so the neighbor's. Why are they knocking down centenary parks? - Because for a hundred years, under their spreading lime trees and maples, the gentlemen showed their power: they poked a beggar in the nose with money, and a fool with education.
    Block ©

    The author, I suppose you are an Old Believer, I respect and have nothing against. But clumsy and clumsy trying to manipulate on the topic of religion does not suit you. And the article is good, instructive and educational, despite the indirect relation to the topic of the resource.
  • BAI
    BAI 9 March 2021 21: 51
    0
    Nikon planted a dead "Orthodoxy". He believed that faith is not the source of life, but a way of preparing for death.

    Well, we have decided on the date of the beginning of the decline of the "Orthodox civilization". That is to say, a scientific explanation has appeared why not a single Orthodox state has achieved noticeable success in science, technology and economics.
  • alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 10 March 2021 08: 34
    0
    Nothing has changed in 400 years. And now the church authority has an effective manager. The schism has become even stronger. The pops are on their own. Churches have been set up and they are empty ...
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 45
    0
    the author did not understand the essence of the elimination of feudal fragmentation in Russia and the creation of a single state that would unite secular and spiritual power! As it was in Byzantium!
  • mister-red
    mister-red 4 May 2021 17: 06
    0
    Since the Great Schism, the people and the government have been irrevocably alienated from each other. There is a gradual loss of living faith, a decline in the authority of the church. Official Orthodoxy is degenerating, shrinking, becoming an appearance. In the final we get the catastrophe of 1917-1920. Exploded and destroyed temples. And the complete indifference of the people.

    Sorry for the stupidity, but I did not understand - according to the author, the result of the split was the catastrophe of 1917-1920 (why did I not understand that way at all. Something ended in 1920?). Why should there be another one like this? And what is the cycle - will it be every 70 years?
    And what does the schism have to do with 1917 globally?
    Author, I don't know what you wrote next, but this paragraph is just a masterpiece.
  • Xopek
    Xopek 10 May 2021 05: 56
    0
    Any statement must be confirmed. Throughout the article, there is a statement about the superiority of the "Old Believers" - colossi and pillars of will and spirit, "The true heirs of the Russian faith" (with a capital letter - yeah), and without them, 1917-1920 happened. Who is the article for? On grandmothers and other extremely impressionable personalities who believe in the memory of water? And the goal? Old Belief in the State Religion?