The number of helicopters that will be placed on Russian UDC helicopter carriers has been announced

A few days earlier in one of the news materials "Voennoye Obozreniye" reported that at the Zaliv shipyard in Kerch, the formation of the hulls of promising Russian universal amphibious assault ships - Project 23900 helicopter carriers became known. fleet.

According to information service sources RIA News, promising helicopter carriers will be able to carry on board up to 16 rotorcraft. At the moment, options are being considered with the deployment of Ka-27 anti-submarine helicopters and Ka-52K attack helicopters.

The material also states that it is planned to deploy 4 unmanned aerial vehicles on promising Russian helicopter carriers.

At the same time, special attention is drawn to the statement that Russian helicopter carriers, "should be in their functionality no worse than the French Mistrals, and maybe even better than them."

Let us remind you that earlier Russia contracted two Mistral-class UDC helicopter carriers from France. However, Paris ultimately chose to support the anti-Russian sanctions. As a result, he had to pay compensation to the Russian Federation, and the warships themselves went to the Egyptian Navy, where they are in service at the moment. At the same time, Egypt has certain problems with the air wing for these helicopter carriers and with the specific purposes of their use. After France refused to transfer the UDC, Russia decided to build analogues of the Mistrals.

Comments

[fa2998]

It's like Roscosmos has found a place to land on the moon. Wait, like until the second coming!

[Volga073]

You also wrote about the Crimean bridge as about the moon)))

[antivirus]

so the bridge is already there? just give everyone 100 bucks and ask to say - it is. I drove over it.
but in fact it is?

[Artyom Karagodin]

Go, get some treatment, no YOU ​​are ANTI, but just a virus. Apparently, the central nervous system is affected,

[antivirus]

so you work at Mosfilm? you are afraid of losing your earnings if the deception of the world progressive community is revealed - the hologram of the Crimean bridge consumes too much electricity.
And we must already turn it off. the outskirts will immediately see the isolation of the Crimea and rush on the tanks "t80" Oblom "to free it from the horde of Buryat cavalry.

[Artyom Karagodin]

Remove hallucinogens from the body, citizen

[antivirus]

it was always bad in the troops with a sense of humor. I knew before. saddened by such a level that opened up to me in these rooms.

[Artyom Karagodin]

This is a lack of communication on the Internet. You don't always understand whether a person is seriously saying something or not. In short, I'm sorry, if that.

[lis-ik]

Quote: antivirus

it was always bad in the troops with a sense of humor. I knew before. saddened by such a level that opened up to me in these rooms.

Well, you rather have sarcasm, although with both, it is very tight here, for most of the participants.

[antivirus]

it is understandable - if it loses, and Russia retreats more or defends itself. no time for fun.
because YouTube rules - the song helps us to build and live. and serious talk only shortens life.
All those in power (and others who are worried about the state) breathe dust from the Monomakh hat (think about government issues) - it is harmful to earn money without coupons for milk. only the fog of London heals torn lungs and liver

[garri-lin]

The coolest banter without a smile is not perceived. Minuses threw you a sickly cart.

[antivirus]

minus by minus = +. for your opinion also get ivy? yes little ones? and so alive. my health does not depend on those minuses

[bayard]

The main thing is decided on the quantity.
Now I would like to decide on the type of landing helicopters, otherwise they are not very well observed in the availability and projects. True, we started to develop the Lamprey, but that will be when it will be, with our slowness and very great novelty of the Lamprey project.
But once they talked about the landing Ka-60 "Kasatka" - just for the "Mistrals", but ... again there are no engines.

[WHAT IS]

"Lamprey" was promised in five years, like a good car should turn out, and the UDC by that time seems to be built at the GCC "Zaliv", let's see ...

[Nicholas C.]

A combat-transport version of the KA-27 is available It is called KA-29. In 1991. production of the KA-29 was discontinued.
The KA-65 "Lamprey" is being developed as a replacement for the KA-27. Obviously, this helicopter will also have a transport-combat modification.

[Insurgent]

At the same time, special attention is drawn to the statement that Russian helicopter carriers, "should be in their functionality no worse than the French Mistrals, and maybe even better than them."

That's it, that "Special attention"draws on the vagueness of the statement -" not worse, but maybe it's better"...

What "may be", may be , when the parameters of "Mistrals" are known thoroughly?

What kind of fortune-telling? Have you started building, not yet understanding what will happen in the end?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Insurgent

What kind of fortune-telling? Have you started building, not yet understanding what will happen in the end?

It's just that no one showed the technical documentation on the UDC to the author. Therefore, he presumes. After all, he is not the chief engineer of the construction of the UDC

[timokhin-aa]

There is still no RKD for these ships in full.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: timokhin-aa

There is still no RKD for these ships in full.

I suppose that the available documentation is quite enough to form the corpus.

[timokhin-aa]

Why did it happen? What is happening now is never the formation of the corps.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: timokhin-aa

Why did it happen? What is happening now is never the formation of the corps.

What's going on? I do not know.

[timokhin-aa]

News was released about "the formation of the corps has begun."
In fact, they cut steel into those parts that have already been designed.

[alexmach]

, and the UDC by that time seems to be built

By the time the UDC builds a helicopter for it, it should already be in the series. Better yet, the air group should have already been built and flown from ground airfields. Probably they will sculpt something on the Ka-27 base. Something strange is written about anti-submarine helicopters in the article.

[Genry]

Quote: bayard

But once they talked about the landing Ka-60 "Kasatka" - just for the "Mistrals", but ... again there are no engines.

Where did they say? These helicopters are land-based, i.e. very poorly tolerate gusts of wind when the size of the landing site is limited.
And it is the Ka-60 that has the RD600V engine - but the helicopter itself is not interesting to the military.

[bayard]

Quote: Genry

Where did they say?

Yes, everywhere. They talked, dreamed, drew. It was for the Mistrals that such were supposed to be landing. And they were also read for the Ground Forces - for the "airmobile forces" ... But something went wrong. And first of all - the engines.
Later, of course, they refused. But that was later.
"Lamprey" will appear in metal and the series obviously with a delay, but apparently before the UDC was laid, they did not dare to start ROC.

[venik]

Quote: bayard

But once they talked about the landing Ka-60 "Kasatka" - just for the "Mistrals", but ... again there are no engines.

========
There's not even so much a problem in the engines: it's just too small! The volume of the cockpit is less than that of the Ka-29 and even the Ka-32 .... But even though they can carry weapons, and on the "Kasatka" with a full landing - many weapons do not hang!
Then it would be better to try to "overwhelm" the Mi-171 ....

[bayard]

Quote: venik

There's not even so much a problem in the engines: it's just too small! The volume of the cockpit is less than that of the Ka-29 and even the Ka-32 .... But even though they can carry weapons, and on the "Kasatka" with a full landing - many weapons do not hang!

The fact is that the "Kasatka" was created as an airborne assault force and could take 12 - 15 airborne personnel. But the troop compartment there, although small, is more or less comfortable - like in a minibus. And the height is normal. And the Ka-29 and Ka-32 family has a troop compartment ... cramped. And very inconvenient in height - there is a compartment for torpedoes and other weapons and fuel tanks under the floor. And it's inconvenient to land.
We need a new vehicle, specifically designed for the landing party - convenient for placing and dropping off the l / s, from which you can fire machine-gun fire from the side (covering the disembarkation / landing), sufficient in carrying capacity and adapted to work from the deck.

Quote: venik

Then it would be better to try to "overwhelm" the Mi-171 ....

They tried in the USSR, but it didn't work - it was tall, bulky, it was necessary to make a folding beam.
Better yet, "Lamprey".
Or renew the modernized Ka-29, but dismantle the underground compartment, and if there is nowhere to put the tanks, then let them be under the longitudinal seats.

[abc_alex]

Quote: bayard

We need a new vehicle, specifically designed for the landing - convenient for placing and dropping off a l / s, from which you can fire machine-gun fire from the side (covering the disembarkation / landing), sufficient in carrying capacity and adapted to work from the deck

I'm afraid all this will remain only a fantasy. Even in the USSR, the fleet and Kamov had problems with the fact that no one undertook to develop at least something for a series of 10-20 vehicles. And even more so to produce. How many of these helicopters do you need? Four? Eight for the entire fleet?
Nobody will give Kamov money for such delights. Unfortunately, the modern Russian fleet is unable to issue a serial order. By and large, now Kamov needs to take on the "coaxial Mi-24". A universal helicopter platform, from which you can sculpt amphibious and anti-submarine, reconnaissance. Maybe take advantage of the developments on the Ka-26/226. Maybe then the project will get a chance for life. And the zoo of 27, 29, and others, plus the 54th, with a serial production of 10 boards in general, has no chance.

[bayard]

Quote: abc_alex

How many of these helicopters do you need? Four? Eight for the entire fleet?

Where do these numbers come from? Only for each UDC they need at least 8 pieces. on Board . And this is without taking into account the spare / replacements on the shore. New large landing ships are also needed, at least 2 for each. And the number of these landing ships is unlikely to remain in the number of two of each type - we have three fleets in three theaters of operation, all the old large landing ships will have to be replaced.

Quote: abc_alex

Nobody will give Kamov money for such delights.

Already given - on "Lamprey". So it will become the base for both the amphibious and anti-submarine, and it will be able to take weapons, although there is already a Ka-52 in the naval version.

[abc_alex]

Quote: bayard

Where do these numbers come from? Only for each UDC they need at least 8 pieces. on Board .

I, of course, exaggerate. But today the entire Ka-27 fleet of the Russian Navy consists of six dozen sides. These are all options. And 27 more Ka-29. That's all, actually a series for the new car.
Even in the USSR with its ocean-going fleet, no more than 600 Ka-27s and 60 Ka-29s were produced over the years. And Russia does not have an ocean-going fleet. For comparison, the Mi-24, which is the same (transport and combat) but for land, made more than 3500 pieces.
And I know first-hand that even in the USSR, Kamov had huge problems with related organizations. Have you heard about the strike version of the Ka-27 for the ground forces? With a guided missile system? And they did.

Quote: bayard

Already given - on "Lamprey". So it will become the base for both the landing and anti-submarine

God grant that. But so far they are only talking about the landing version. And I'm afraid everything will happen again: the helicopter will be made, but simply no one will develop weapon complexes for it, additional equipment and systems. Small series is not interesting. Well, they will make 4 UDC. Even six. 8 boards each. 56 cars. And that's all. This is the limit. Osialnoe - small batches of 1-2 pieces per ship. Moreover, the dependence on the imagination of the "admirals", and she is, oh, like an ornate one.
At the same time, the Ka-52 already has 170 machines and there is no physical limit for the series. Perhaps Kamov will make a station wagon, but if not?

[bayard]

Quote: abc_alex

to date, the entire fleet of the Ka-27 of the Russian Navy consists of six dozen sides. These are all options. And 27 more Ka-29.

All these helicopters have to be replaced, and there are not enough of them for all existing and under construction ships. For even corvettes now have a permanent-based helicopter hangar. And for the UDC, 8 pieces is the minimum, because of at least 16 pieces, 8 are airborne, 4 are shock (Ka-52), and 4 more?
AWACS?
Search and rescue? So it's easier for the landing winch to attach, at the same time it will be able to pick up the wounded without landing.
So in reality there are 8 - 12 amphibious assault troops, not counting spare ones (you will have to have them - to make up for losses and maneuver forces).
Large landing craft with an enlarged air wing will also build 12 pieces. Up to four turntables each.
All new ships are being built with aircraft carriers, and at 22350M there will probably already be two helicopters ...
So, taking into account both amphibious and anti-submarine, 200 pieces will be needed. And this is already quite good for a start.
I know about the discrimination of the Kamov Design Bureau in the past, and about competition too, but the story with the Ka-52 suggests that even for the Ground Forces they are now being purchased in equal shares with the Mi-28.
And the Milievites will not make a sea helicopter.
Regarding unification with the Ka-52, the idea is certainly not bad, but it looks like the Lamprey will have more powerful engines (as for the Mi-38), but in terms of armament and avionics, unification with the naval Ka-52 is quite reasonable, and inevitable - within the framework of one KB).
There are no other options, except for "Lamprey" now - the production of the Ka-27 and Ka-29 has long been discontinued, so the old people have support and wait for a replacement.
That's just how long it will take ...

Quote: abc_alex

Have you heard about the strike version of the Ka-27 for the ground forces? With a guided missile system? And they did.

I heard that it was the Ka-29, as an alternative / competitor for the Mi-24. He showed better booking, larger capacity and more weapons he could take. There were seemingly shoals with the use of suspended cannons / machine guns (like the recoil was taken away from the axis of motion). Well, the debugging was delayed - it was put into service just before the collapse of the Union. By that time, the Mi-24 had already become famous in Afghanistan and a number of other conflicts.
Looking at how the Americans are now carried away by co-axes, our military commanders should be inflamed with special desires for the Lamprey. After all, they are like children - they saw a toy, and they want the same for themselves.

[abc_alex]

Quote: bayard

I heard that it was the Ka-29, as an alternative / competitor for the Mi-24.

No no. It is the Ka-27 in the form of an attack helicopter with an URO complex. They tried on the assault on him. And sighting and navigation complex.

[bayard]

What to do, Mile's lobby has always been stronger. Yes, and the military resisted - it was more expensive, more difficult to maintain, it was necessary to separately train pilots for the co-axle. And the Mi-24 and Mi-8 have an almost identical propeller group (the blades of the Crocodile are shorter). Even about the Ka-50 \ 52 doubted / resisted - re-re-learn. I had a chance to talk with aviators on this topic

[abc_alex]

Regarding the lobby, I heard the opposite opinion. This is confirmed by the strangeness of the attack helicopter competition. I guess Mil just had better cooperation of subcontractors. In general, let's hope that Kamov will get a station wagon for the fleet, which will be a platform for amphibious assault, anti-submarine and RLO. The coaxial scheme must be developed.

[bayard]

Quote: abc_alex

... The coaxial scheme must be developed.

It is more complicated and more expensive, which is why the Miles won, but the co-axle is better in the navy.

[Volder]

Quote: bayard

Now I would like to decide on the type of landing helicopters

What are they needed for? Helicopter landing is rarely used. For it is not effective.

[bayard]

Quote: Volder

What are they needed for?

And why then amphibious helicopter carriers?
The same UDC for which everything was conceived?
And in the Ground Forces - why are helicopters and helicopter assault forces?
After all, you can get to the armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles?
On Kamaz ... or on a cart, so as not to violate the ecology?
And why are ships?
It is possible on rafts.

[timokhin-aa]

The most effective method of landing is by helicopter. Troops from the sea always land using part of the force in the form of air.

[Mountain shooter]

Let's wait ... plans tend to come true. The airborne troops would still be needed for a quick landing ... Like the Mi-35. But he is not at all marine. While coaxial is not visible in development

[mark1]

By tz. the possibility of accepting land helicopters was laid.

[venik]

Quote: mark1

By tz. the possibility of accepting land helicopters was laid.

=======
Well, not only they (helicopter carriers) can accept and release something, but for permanent basing -

[mark1]

Yes, it would not be bad ... yes, something larger than the Mi-26, so that submarines not only found, but also removed from the water element - for study ...

[Runway]

About these ships broadcast "the possibility of receiving and using land turntables."
According to the note - 2 PS, 4 PL, up to 10 drums. A set of boards pushed into the hangar.
Although, in theory, there can be different options for the task - an anti-submarine or a strike-transport "kit". There would be boards. And the pilots.

[Artyom Karagodin]

By the way, why is only coaxial used? It is clear that it is more convenient and functional, but the same Americans calmly fly the classic (Sea Hawk, Sea King) and nothing. Should we do that? Moreover, the Ka-62, for example, is already flying. who is in the subject - educate.

[alexmach]

Because the dimensions are smaller, it is more convenient to store it on the ship. And also because all the helicopter hangars on the ships of the Navy are made based on the dimensions of the Ka-27, and they are not at all large.

[Grits]

Quote: alexmach

And also because all the helicopter hangars on the ships of the Navy are made based on the dimensions of the Ka-27, and they are not at all large.

The helicopter carrier does not have hangars in the classical sense for a ship. the deck allows you to be on board even the Mi-8

[Artyom Karagodin]

I thank both Alexandrov for the explanations.

[Coward]

In one of the series of programs "Destructive Force", it was told about Kamov's helicopters and why they are used in the Navy. One of the reasons is that with some excitement (I don't remember exactly how many points), the risk of hitting the tail boom of Mil helicopters on the deck of the ship during landing due to rolling increases.

[garri-lin]

America doesn’t use co-axes because it couldn’t make them. Than rich and so happy.

[rotmistr60]

The fact that Russia has undertaken to build helicopter carriers itself is excellent, because these are both jobs and the development of technologies for the construction of ships of this class. But can anyone clarify the meaning of the article? Why write about how many helicopters there will be on a ship that

at the shipyard "Zaliv" in Kerch began formation of corps promising Russian universal amphibious assault ships - project 23900 helicopter carriers

[alexmach]

It’s not clear why, but in general, these helicopters should have been quietly produced.

[tuts]

I'm not an expert, but perhaps a drone carrier is more relevant in modern conditions?

[Adimius38]

let them build first

[Thrifty]

So, other sources indicate that there will be up to 24 -26 helicopters on board, and from 4 to 8 UAVs! So far, everything is approximately, over time we will find out the exact number of flying apparatuses on board the ships!

[Runway]

"IT" was reported to RIA Novosti. Judging by the "pictures" - two side lifters from the hangars are designed for vertices with folding blades.
Duty pairs on the upper deck - 4 pcs. 20 aircraft already.
There are also a couple of places where you can put "land" ones on scotch tape and PVA.
22 is not 24, but BEFORE 24.

[antivirus]

everyone will take the missile containers again. will be overgrown MRK ... and Poseidons will hang under the board

[Jacket in stock]

Funny.
The project was approved long ago.
Construction has begun and has even progressed quite well.
And about what is still being built, some fortune-telling and assumptions.

And yes, if the ships are called amphibious helicopter carriers, then where are the amphibious helicopters in the above list?

[Alexilyin]

Ships are inherently amphibious. Those. must ensure the landing of troops on the unequipped coast. With landing craft such as various boats, it is clear that there are. But why are there no transport helicopters on the ship? But only PLO helicopters and attack helicopters? No matching ones?

[TermNachTer]

I think that they will definitely be better, because the "mistrals" were built according to the standards of civil shipbuilding, which is not a "gut" for a ship. The air group can be varied, up to the Yak-41 VTOL or its analogue, if any.

[Sofa]

If it does exist, it is not even being built yet. You should not harbor illusions.

[TermNachTer]

And what, Moscow was built in one day?))) Building the fleet is also not a matter of one day, even if the deadlines are shifted - a normal phenomenon. In other countries, the same is true.

[Castro Ruiz]

Dumayu nado seriozno zaniatsa, te uskorit projekt Minoga.

[Alexey Zigalov]

Where will you get a vertical take-off UAV? Kronstadt is launching an outpost, that is not the problem, the problem is that you will need 10 and 10 billion rubles in years. And the war will be in the next 2-3 years.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Alexey Zigalov

And the war will be in the next 2-3 years.

As the saying goes "pip your tongue", where does this information come from? Regional conflict, I agree, but if you mean a big, world war, then it is doubtful.

[Mikhail Ya2]

And why are they pushing "promising" everywhere? So there are projects of "unpromising" weapon models? Why is this verbal diarrhea?

[Victorio]

Quote: Michael Ya2

Why are they shoved everywhere "perspective"? So there are projects of "unpromising" weapon models? Why is this verbal diarrhea?

===
equipping with drones will be promising

[Mikhail Ya2]

PAK YES, PAK FA is also equipped with drones?

[Victorio]

Quote: Michael Ya2

PAK YES, PAK FA is also equipped with drones?

===
is that a question? if so, very strange.

[Mikhail Ya2]

I'm just wondering) why do they push the word "promising" everywhere? Are there any promising weapons under development?

[viktor_ui]

Or maybe it's time to score similar FUTURES with drone swarms. Well, at least in a flight of fantasy ... if you strained with the technologies of the 21st century. Let them take fantasies from THQ, because there is a great suspicion that while these buildings are completed, the future from THQ will be before our eyes (well, or whatever we will have there by this time as this device with a shared spectrum)

[RASKAT]

The author is drizzling something, why are anti-submarine helicopters on the UDC? The karable is not designed for these tasks. There would be more useful transport-combat KA 29. Although it seems to me that KA 27 will definitely be shoved on it.

[Ngauro]

transport equipment to Syria, and simple transports can.