NASA Moon. The Pentagon has declared the Earth satellite its area of ​​responsibility

Depleted bowels

Our society is almost exclusively driven by consumption. The problem smoothly flows from the economic plane to the military - wars will eventually start over depleted resources. You don't have to go far for examples, you just have to look at the situation with the Arctic Ocean. In addition to the gradual release of ice from the Northern Sea Route, the development of minerals on the continental shelf is greatly simplified. It is even difficult to count the number of countries ready to wage war with Russia for the unhindered use of the resources of the northern region.

If we take into account exhaustible resources, then one of the most critical for the world economy are rare earth elements (17 elements in total), the consumption of which has grown from 50 to 5 thousand tons over the past 125 years. Nowadays, rare earth elements can rightfully be classified as strategic raw materials - in many respects, the success of the development of the military-industrial and aerospace industries depends on them. In most cases, mankind has already faced the depletion of stocks of such elements. And this is not always associated with a decrease in production volumes from deposits - often mines are located in the territory of permanent hostilities.

There are also difficulties with the extraction of non-ferrous and precious metals, which play a key role in the industry of any state. There are a lot of forecasts regarding the dynamics of field depletion, but, as usual, everyone looks at the worst scenarios. The anticipation of the apocalypse, even among scientists, always sells much better than a cloudless future. In the most pessimistic future, mankind will face a serious shortage of gold - in 2032, it simply will not remain in the bowels of the Earth to be mined in the traditional way. We will have to develop new methods of extraction (for example, from sea water), and this will multiply the cost of the precious metal. Pessimistic scientists predict chronic shortages of cobalt by 2048, tungsten by 2054, aluminum by 2064 and, most surprisingly, the disappearance of iron ore deposits by 2049. Such crisis assumptions make scientists and politicians look for ways to extract minerals in near and deep space.

Moon klondike

In this regard, the moon can become a real pantry, simply stuffed with useful elements and compounds, which can be used in different ways. Scientists are considering the possibility of building lunar station housing modules from local material. As noted in the publication "Space Engineering and Technology", a lunar quarry with a size of 100 × 100 m and a depth of 10 m (the volume of loose matter in natural bedding) contains a significant amount of useful materials. The development of only one such quarry will provide about 40 thousand tons of silicon, suitable, for example, for the manufacture of solar cells, and 9 thousand tons of titanium for the manufacture of load-bearing structures of high strength and durability. There is a lot of titanium in lunar rocks - on average, 10 times more than on Earth. "Winged metal", suitable, among other things, for the construction of electrical infrastructure, from the lunar quarry can be mined in an amount of up to 30 thousand tons. Along the way, 25 thousand tons of iron will be used with small bonuses in the form of magnesium, calcium and chromium. Finally, up to 90 thousand tons of oxygen can be extracted from the same volume of lunar regolith (a global layer of fragmented rocks). In general, for the construction business on the moon, almost everything you need is presented, and even more. The only thing left is to create a technology for the production of building materials and structures from all this good and adapt it to lunar conditions.

Distribution of rare earth metals in the hemispheres of the Moon. Source: "Space Engineering and Technology"

At the beginning of the XNUMXst century, large accumulations of water ice were discovered in the polar regions of the Moon - this instilled even more optimism in futurologists regarding the construction of habitable stations. Water is not only life support for humans, but also a source of rocket fuel (oxygen and hydrogen). In the very near future lunar Robots will be sent to these territories of the satellite.

The prospects for the extraction of valuable resources, which, in other words, do not take up much space, but are expensive, look more realistic. This can be the platinum group of metals: iridium, osmium, palladium, rhodium, ruthenium and platinum. And, of course, the main fantasies revolve around the notorious helium-3. This substance, abundantly flavoring the lunar soils, is destined for the honorable mission of saving mankind from energy and ecological collapse. One ton of this helium isotope, if used correctly, can replace up to 20 million tons of oil! According to the most conservative estimates, helium-3 on the Moon is of the order of a million tons, which promises a bright future for humanity for several centuries to come. The only thing left is to learn how to deliver the isotope to Earth relatively inexpensively and create an operating thermonuclear reactor for it.

Theoretical fiction

Fantastic history let's continue with incriminations. In 1967, the United States signed the "Treaty on the Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies." In addition to the United States, 104 more states have signed this legal act. It has a lot of vague formulations and definitions, for example, Article II:

Outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation either through the proclamation of sovereignty over them, or through use or occupation, or by any other means.

It is clear from the text that states are prohibited from expanding their territory at the expense of possessions in outer space. Accordingly, it is also impossible to dispose of space objects as property. Nevertheless, in 2015, the United States passed the Law on the Exploration and Use of Space Resources, which allows private companies to extract minerals from celestial bodies, including asteroids. You can only allow mining in the controlled territory, isn't it? The further development of the situation is even more reminiscent of the raider capture of the Moon. In late January, The Wall Street Journal notified the world that future American bases on the moon would be guarded by the Pentagon. Here the United States is already quite unambiguously marking the boundaries of its possessions, pointing even to potential space enemies - Russia and China.

In the coming decades, something like this should circle in the orbit of the moon. Source: ru.wikipedia.org

Such statements are related to plans for the development of lunar space in conjunction with European countries and the United States. Washington acts as the main payer in this story, and the rest, as Dmitry Rogozin aptly put it, as “apprentices”. Among them are Australia, Canada, Luxembourg, Italy and, of course, Japan, which is constantly suffering without sovereign natural resources. The project was named Artemis, and, according to plans, the first made in USA modules on the Moon should appear in 7-8 years. And the first astronauts will land around 2024. NASA has outlined very ambitious prospects for itself, given that the program itself started in 2019.

The space race with unclear prospects seems to be gaining momentum. Many countries join it not because they are really interested in space exploration, but because the colonization of the Moon is a global hype. So, since 2019, the United Arab Emirates has become an "offshore" place for companies willing to invest in the exploration of the Moon and near space. Welcome to Dubai spaceport! These are the slogans we will hear in five or six years in case of a successful development of events. Little Luxembourg in general in 2016 discovered the concept of "space offshore", declaring itself a European integrator of mining in space. A year later, the duchy passed a law recognizing the private right to extract and sell space resources. It should be noted that Donald Trump signed a decree securing the rights of Americans to do this only in 2020. The Japanese are ready to give the green light to a similar law in the coming months.

The lunar race is indicative of the actual absence of Russian interests in it. The country, which several decades ago set the pace in the exploration of the moon, was on the sidelines. At present, all the ambitious plans of Roscosmos regarding the Moon go several decades in advance. Critics will note that the Europeans and the Americans are not doing much better - foreign lunar missions are at the design stage. This is partly true: it is not fully known whether the lunar race will be crowned with the success of one or several players at once - too little time has passed. But since the beginning of the XXI century, the United States, Japan, China, India and the European Union have sent more than 20 research vehicles to a natural satellite of the Earth, and Russia has not one.

Comments

[Far B]

The problem smoothly flows from the economic plane to the military - wars will eventually start over depleted resources

I apologize strongly - have the resource wars ever stopped at all, so that we can say that they will "begin"?
As for the claims of the Americans on the moon ... Well, so their hands are now virtually untied. Because the domestic cosmonautics is no longer, and the Chinese is not yet. In terms of being able to compete with them. Narrow-eyed, I fully admit, in ten to fifteen years the state employees will still slow down with their Wishlist, but the domestic cosmonautics will, alas, continue to degrade if figures like the songwriter Rogozin remain at the head of it.
In short, now the amers have a window where they can claim their rights to anything they want - if it is outside the earth's atmosphere. And they use this opportunity. To the fullest. Sometimes (often) - with a strong bust. But they do. Nothing unexpected.
International law, signed treaties? No, they didn't hear. It's amazing how they have not yet presented the rights to Antarctica.

[Ilya-spb]

We must declare our zone of responsibility ... Planet Mars!

Tnm more, there is a precedent. According to the story "Aelita", Soviet power was established on Mars.

[military_cat]

Critics will note that the Europeans and the Americans are not doing much better - foreign lunar missions are at the design stage.

In the USA, in fact, the Orion lunar spacecraft and the SLS super-heavy rocket have already been completed and tested, and they plan to launch this year (the Artemis I mission around the moon in unmanned mode).

[Interlocutor]

In the USA, in fact, the Orion lunar spacecraft and the SLS super-heavy rocket have already been completed and tested, and they plan to launch this year (the Artemis I mission around the moon in unmanned mode).

Exactly. I'm also waiting for the launch. From this mark, it will be possible to understand exactly how much humanity's words correspond to realities. While everyone has a light trampling. And only China x2 will start a pair of missiles every week)))))))))))))))). Satellite by satellite ... Like rice is planted. Don't stop. Well done.
We don't count the mask - he is already a Martian. Tesla sent him to Mars in an arc, sells everything and dumps it from this sinful planet ... He will ride on whatever is there.

[Klingon]

Rogozin has a Trampoline and not convincing excuses for any question like "yes, we didn't really want to"

[Akuzenka]

The country, which several decades ago set the pace in the exploration of the moon, was on the sidelines.

It's only the beginning! Soon we will forget how to make planes at such a rate of "development" of the Russian Federation. Why train engineers to build aircraft? Expensive! Let's buy!

[Civil]

Quote: Ilya-spb

We must declare our zone of responsibility ... Planet Mars!

And Snickers!
Journalist send star cruisers to guard the moon

But seriously, well, there is nothing to oppose, you can only threaten your fist from the globe.

[A1845]

Quote: Civil

Seriously, there is nothing to oppose

according to the apt expression of Dmitry Rogozin

Since the beginning of the 20st century, the United States, Japan, China, India and the European Union have sent more than XNUMX research vehicles to a natural satellite of the Earth, while Russia has not sent a single one.

trampoline master will come up with something

[antivirus]

First, the ANTARCTIDA will be torn apart - all the rest is a distraction. The experience of the Arctic must be quickly applied to our presence (and military) in the Southern Ocean.
train people in Rosneft to work from Tierra del Fuego or the Tych Islands approx. and create a department for "sharing best practices in low temperatures"

[prior]

The Americans privatized the Moon before it is too late to urgently privatize the rest of the galaxy.

[meandr51]

It is quite possible. It is only necessary to restore this power on Earth.

[dauria]

According to the story "Aelita", Soviet power was established on Mars.

Reread .... The uprising is suppressed, the leader Alyosha draped home to St. Petersburg together with the sympathetic intellectual Losy .. And already "from the couch" called for "the transfer of a combat detachment to Mars to save the remnants of the working population."

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Ilya-spb

Tnm more, there is a precedent. According to the story "Aelita", Soviet power was established on Mars.

It is a pity that only state-of-the-art armored cars drive around Mars

[Per se.]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

It is a pity that only state-of-the-art armored cars drive around Mars

The moon is much closer, but the "shtatovskie armored cars" don't travel around the moon, strange, right? The farther from the eyes of the people, the better the States do. Soviet cosmonautics gained experience, such as landing and launching from the Moon of automatic machines, returning cargo to Earth. We learned to control the lunar rovers with a signal delay.

The Yankees took, and immediately flew to the Moon, on a crude rocket (all launches were successful), without the experience of even returning cargo to Earth at a second cosmic speed (not like people), along the "Kondratyuk Route" (a loop along the equator of the Earth's radiation belts), in the years of maximum activity of the Sun, despising magnetic storms, in rag suits. Even cowboys flew with a pack of female pads (they also hadn't invented diapers), having no idea of ​​space medicine.

After the gentlemen lose all the "proofs", kilograms of lunar soil and kilometers of photos and film, the technology of the F-1 engine, unsurpassed in power and reliability, disappears, and the previously unsurpassed Saturn 5 rocket is no longer needed. This is something! Conquerors of the Moon!

Few know that there is such a directive as the "US National Space Policy", from which, the United States considers space infrastructure, including ground and space segments and communications between them, as critical to its national interests.

Russia, as the legal successor to the USSR, is the only country that de jure is within the jurisdiction outlined in the directive "US National Space Policy". Only Russia now has the full right to inspect the lunar surface with any detail that is possible. But the Russian authorities will not use their rights as long as they follow the strategy of US global domination, as long as our "elite" is dependent on those who keep their money.

Once again, it can be emphasized, to all patriots of America - blessed are those who believe. If we stand on strictly scientific ground, then it will become evident that we know about the manned flights of Apollo to the Moon exclusively from NASA, and to date there is not a single independent confirmation of these missions.
There were no even attempts at inspections, although it would seem that there are no technical obstacles to this. Therefore, belief in lunar missions is entirely based on belief in the honesty of NASA, but this approach is contrary to scientific principles and cannot be considered objective.

If the Pentagon has declared the Earth satellite its zone of responsibility, it is only because the United States has something to hide. With Mars, everything is simpler, there, despising time and distance, colossal sandstorms have been ruled by American rovers for many years. I doubt very much that, not like on Mars, even in the Sahara, even in the fields of Texas, these miracle machines would have worked for a year without service.

Here, and draw your conclusions.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Per se.

that we know about the manned flights of Apollo to the Moon exclusively from NASA, and to date there is not a single independent confirmation of these missions.

Comrade - quit your little scientific stream

I happened to study at the specialized department of aircraft and my specialization was the design and production of rockets, so listening to all the nonsense that the Americans were not on the moon, this also negates all our achievements of the USSR, and we were ready to be technologically on the moon and only a little late.

I have no doubt that the Americans were on the Moon, since our laboratory also had engines from H1 and a lunar landing stage, which delivered AS Luna-16 and subsequently lunar rovers. I would also deliver a manned ship.

You have chosen the stupid path of denial - if you did not see it, then it was not.
This approach is deeply disgusting - I don't see anyone sitting in a snail, I don't hear anything, not from a great mind.

This is probably why I went into rocketry, that I wanted to achieve something, and not try and envy.
It's so petty to deny someone else's achievements.

[Per se.]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

Comrade - quit your little scientific stream

Dmitry Vladimirovich, it is very good that you went into rocketry and not into commerce. Here, only, "drown" then you are here, as it turns out, not for Soviet achievements, but for others.
What denials did they find with me? I do not question our lunar rovers, I do not question the operation of our probes, including those that delivered lunar soil to Earth. The work of our cosmonauts in orbit.

But where is the American evidence, what is it? The rocket launches to the Moon, the capsule falls by parachute into the ocean ... Cheerful Americans climb aboard, as if they had returned from a resort, and not from zero gravity (what ours got after returning from orbit, the Yankees did not know then).

The attachment of the lines on the American descent capsules was upper, if at least once they were really even in orbit, let alone on the Moon, they would know that with such an attachment the lines would simply burn out. So you can land from a transport, in extreme cases from a suborbital jump, but not from orbit.

Eat fried meat before flying to the camera, and then fly to the moon ... Even problems in space with moisturizing eyes in zero gravity, not like gases in the intestines, with their "diapers".

You went into rocketry, so how can you not know how long it takes to fine-tune the engines, the rocket itself? How was it possible to immediately send people on a rocket that had been unsuccessfully tested before, where did it suddenly come from? Are you sure a rocket scientist?

If our corner reflector on the Moon (Lunokhod -1) gives a clear signal, then the reflectors declared by the Americans are weak and blurry, which is most likely a consequence of predetermined natural reflection points, such as faults and lunar slopes.

American counterfeiters could have been mixed with dirt, but, I repeat, our Kremlin "natives" traded the pure gold of the Soviet victory in space for bourgeois "glass beads" by making a deal with the United States. The Americans then paid off dearly, for the first time in history, the US President personally flew to Moscow to negotiate, this is to the enemy, the "defeated" in space, the evil empire. Dear Leonid Ilyich personally received expensive gifts then, in addition to the mass of American concessions, plus he greatly raised his rating for relaxation. The apotheosis of the deal was a new show (to the lunar), "Soyuz-Apollo". Ours were in space, and the States played according to the lunar scenario.

The United States came to breathing air in space, rather than oxygen under reduced pressure, only from the flights of their shuttles. Many experts consider this to be real American manned flights into orbit.

Also, only the highest authority of the Soviet Union, Soviet achievements in space, recognition by the Soviet leadership of the American landing on the Moon and legalized the American lunar scam before the rest of the world. Here the witness appeared, our Leonov, "anointed" in the "Soyuz-Apollo".

Your business, Mr. Dmitry Vladimirovich, what to believe, but the Americans have no proof of landing on the moon.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Per se.

American counterfeiters could be mixed with dirt, but, I repeat, our Kremlin "natives" traded the pure gold of the Soviet victory in space for bourgeois "glass beads"

Forgive me, comrade - I do not discuss with stubborn dogmas, there are so many strange people in the world that you cannot convince everyone, and yes, I have been in commerce for 17 years already - not up to an educational program.
You have heard something, learned something from what is published by the same profane.

Want to figure it out?
- Chertok, Boris Evseevich, Academician, author of works, scientist:

One of the founders of the theory and practice of creating missile and spacecraft control systems, founder of a scientific school, academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, doctor of technical sciences, professor, full member of the International Academy of Astronautics.

All students of the specialized departments of LA begin with his textbooks.
It is unlikely that you will master the textbooks, at least the memoirs: "Rockets and People" Moon Race: http://militera.lib.ru/explo/chertok_be/21.html

Like a rocket scientist, but you are illiterate and would be ashamed to write outright nonsense!

Quote: Per se.

How was it possible to immediately send people on a rocket that had been unsuccessfully tested before, where did it suddenly come from? Are you sure a rocket scientist?

Reliability and safety were very strict requirements at all stages of the American lunar program. The principle of ensuring reliability through careful ground testing was adopted, so that in flight only those testing that cannot be carried out on Earth with the current level of technology.

B. Chertok "Rockets and People" "Moon Race"
get basic knowledge, it's not for you to read articles on the internet from fools.

[Per se.]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

B. Chertok "Rockets and People" "Moon Race"

Thank you, of course, for the moralizing. I will not argue, nothing will change from this. What has been done is done, especially when the Central Committee then advised our academy not to irritate American partners in doubts about the Moon ... And, any book can be written, this is not a verdict in the scientific world. I hope that you, before going into commerce, mastered not only one of Boris Evseevich's books. All the best.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Per se.

And, any book can be written, this is not a verdict in the scientific world.

Write if you can handle it.
So far, the discussion has discouraged me; nevertheless, it is necessary to discuss with people who are able to perceive information and are ready for it.
If you believe more the writers of unscientific nonsense on the Internet, rather than people who have created similar technologies to American ones, using only tenth of funding and opportunities from American - and most importantly: EXCEEDED in this and we would have been on the moon without a doubt.
Yes, they started later, yes - the system was simpler / lighter, but the first lunar ship "killed" Komarov, H1 did not want to fly - time pressure of time and money, and yet we would fly.
These people were heroes of their time, they did not shout - "the Americans were not ..." they were not allowed to put a full stop where the Americans put a comma.
But to what extent do you have to be stupid to shout about it now to justify your worthlessness, insignificance - instead of going further.
It's so shallow ...

Yes - we were not the first on the moon, we went a safer way - with automatic weapons, but our "lunar ships" Soyuz, for the time being, drove the Americans to the ISS and nothing - flew.

I know that now the guys are younger, they make promising engines and design ships with almost pure enthusiasm in Russia. They would have had more funds and opportunities, but the staff of officials eats and kills any reasonable initiative not related to personal enrichment, titles and honor of the "distributors" of the budget.
And the guys work for interest, like those who used to work, not for the sake of money.
And those who do are always fewer than "all-propalts" and "ykhtamnebyltsov".

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Per se.

The attachment of the lines on the American descent capsules was upper, if at least once they were really even in orbit, let alone on the Moon, they would know that with such an attachment the lines would simply burn out.

You are raving in a little scientific way and you understand very little about it ...
For example: testing at stands - was delivered in the USA at a high level
For example, the command module landing test is used for full-scale testing of passive safety equipment for small aircraft and helicopters.

[Per se.]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

You are raving in a little scientific way and you understand very little about it ...

We do not defend a dissertation, and I personally do not owe you anything, expressing only my opinion. You move away from the topic, in a mentoring tone, make "diagnoses" from a doctor from "Kanatchikovaya dacha" ...

Testing stand command module landing test, So what? Where did the F-1 go, why couldn't such advanced Americans build the ISS on their own, buy the RD-180?
The simplest thing is, where is the lunar soil and the originals of photo and film materials?

You are here now about simple Russian boys, "on pure enthusiasm", then again, about the "high level" of Americans. To be honest, I did not want to continue the dialogue with you on the topic either, but it was I who "got into" your comment, not you to me. Excuse me.

Nothing would have prevented the USSR from making, if not the landing of our cosmonauts on the moon, then making it a manned flyby, be it as simple as the Yankees presented with "diapers".

We had everything for the flight, and much better prepared than the United States. By the way, back in 1968, a flyby of the Moon ("Zond-5") was successfully completed, with a pair of turtles, various seeds and some bacteria returning to Earth. Before the Americans. Let not H-1, which Sergei Korolev did more for Mars, we already had a "Proton", which could be used for a flyby.

You stubbornly do not want to understand why everything was canceled, both for Proton and for H-1. Either commerce spoils people so much, or pedantry is strong in character, or you are not entirely for Russia, with other people's ideological interests. Let's stay where we are.

[boris epstein]

But after the last NASA statement, my doubts that the Americans were on the moon only strengthened. They find themselves in a photograph of the lunar surface and found one of two golf balls that Sheppard played there. Your attention to the article: "Great place to play golf: on the moon found a golf ball." There is also a video.
of them they brought to Earth, and the second they lost. Now the photograph was found 38 meters from the landing site of the descent vehicle. There is no atmosphere on the moon, but the ball is inside with air. To begin with, it would have simply exploded, and if it had not exploded then, it would have exploded long ago from temperature changes. I studied physics at school. I remember that objects (and the air inside the balloon) expand when heated. And the temperature on the lunar surface fluctuates from a positive maximum to a negative maximum.

[Klingon]

and the earth is flat, isn't it? no one saw whales either

[Per se.]

Quote: Klingon

and the earth is flat, isn't it?

It's true you got flat. To whom and the language is artificial, alive. To each his own.

[Klingon]

oh i cry, the earth is not flat

[nickname7]

Russia, as the assignee of the USSR,

Calm down, you can be proud of ancient achievements, but you cannot use them, "the train has left". An agreement on paper should be provided by aircraft carriers and the economic power of a superpower, the world level of industry, science and technology, if there are no aircraft carriers or industry, then throw your piece of paper into the trash.
How people like you do not understand that today you have to live, the present determines being, and not ancient times.

[seregatara1969]

Well, a zone in Russia is called a different place. Thus, Russia is being squeezed out of the places of all

[nickname7]

In 1967, the United States signed the "Treaty on the Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies."

At that time, space was perceived as a donut hole, emptiness and cost. But at the moment, awareness has come.

It is better to explain with an example, Columbus, who discovered the new world, spent a fortune on organizing an expedition, but brought two fortunes. The meaning of Columbus' voyage is that the costs pay off and make a profit. Spain got rich on the service of cargo transportation and on the values ​​that were exported. The construction of sailboats alone gave Spain an economic boom. Then the third-rate country England also joined in the development of the new world and became great.
In general, when resources are found that will recoup the costs of space flights, it will be profitable to master the latter. And the country that will serve the traffic will dominate, if not in the galaxy, then at least in the solar system. The Anglo-Saxons understand such things very well, in contrast to Russian politicians.
Dominance is no joke. So the United States introduced a monopoly on recoupable space by default. The construction of ships, infrastructure, will allow them to launch an economic boom, possibly to pay off debts.

[ruivit1988]

I agree with you, Musk did not just create super heavy missiles. And it seems to me that the ship in the form of a water tower is also designed not for Mars, but for the delivery of equipment to the Moon and delivery of heavy loads. The lunar station that appears in orbit is the future springboard for promoting the political and economic interests of the United States. So I will not be surprised that in the next ten years the United States will conceive a program to create a lunar base as well as a base for mining.

[carstorm 11]

Oga will not degrade but lose to private companies. And this is just inevitable. They are more flexible, faster, and more importantly, they know exactly what they will earn on it. And China will soon follow the same path. Profit-driven companies will simply destroy any government programs. Simple and easy. They will take all the brains to themselves. NASA opened this Pandora's Box for a reason. Even though Rogozin put even Platoshkin there for an example. It will not change anything.

[Far B]

will not degrade but lose to private companies

ABOUT! You tell this recipe to Dmitry Olegich - let him privatize Roskosmos and pulls on all kinds of Masks in private. I assure you that Dmitry Olegitch will be extremely grateful to you.

[carstorm 11]

It's not about privatization. It won't solve anything. Private companies are focused on profit and results and prospects. There will be more and more of them. They will compete with each other. They will expand the same moon much faster. And then you can't knock them out of there. And the state is still swinging ... NASA, as it were, also gave the initiative to private companies. Deliberately gave

[Far B]

Something I do not understand you. How is it not about privatization? "Privatization is a form of property transformation, which is the process of transfer-sale (full or partial) of state or municipal property in private hands. "So Rogozmos will become privately owned a bench. And, according to you,

Private companies are focused on profit and results and prospects. There will be more and more of them. They will compete with each other. They will expand the same moon much faster. And then you can't knock them out of there. And the state is still swinging ... NASA, as it were, also gave the initiative to private companies. Deliberately gave

You really decide - a cross or panties.

[carstorm 11]

It will not help in our case specifically to Rosskosmos. Yes, and he should, like NASA, remain a state and decide state affairs. You just need something else to develop independently of him. Otherwise everything will pass by

[Far B]

Will not help in our case specifically to Rosskosmos

Well, let the songwriter then privatize the "daughters" of Roscosmos - it's business. There are few of them, as many as 75! Here Roskosmos will decide state affairs, and the privatized "daughters" - move the Russian space in a private way. AND? Well, why not an option? Everything your way, in a market way! And Dmitry Olegich will not be offended, again.

[carstorm 11]

Rogozin has been running Roscosmos for three years. Three. Not 30. Well, put another person there. Nothing will change . Does not matter. Absolutely. Giving them tons of money won't help either. Musk, no matter how I relate to his activities, opened the way for others. The moon fever is still far away, but when it starts, capital from all over the world will run to him and those like him. Privatization is simply a change in ownership. It doesn't mean the result. How many specific NASA launches last year do you know? Which NASA has developed?

[Svarog]

Quote: carstorm 11

Rogozin has been running Roscosmos for three years.

And the cooperative has been running the country for 20 years .. The result is predictable.

[carstorm 11]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Not to me.

[Aviator_]

And the cooperative has ruled the country for 20 years ..

Cooperative "Lake"

[carstorm 11]

Yes, even the sea. I don't give a damn about it)

[Kart]

After the failure of their Fuhrer, the Sisyanists are calling to unite with the pseudo-communists in destroying Russia against the Ozero cooperative.
These will fly to the moon, yes.

[Machito]

Quote: Svarog

Quote: carstorm 11

Rogozin has been running Roscosmos for three years.

And the cooperative has been running the country for 20 years .. The result is predictable.

It is the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs who are to blame.

[Far B]

Rogozin has been running Roscosmos for three years. Three. Not 30

Oh, damn, what a familiar song (((Where did I hear that? Oh, yes! "Putin has been ruling the country for 20 years. 20! Not 200". You, in general, are aware that the trial period is three months, maximum - Six months? By the end of this period, it is already quite clear whether the person corresponds to the position held, or not? To correct during this time, of course, he will not be able to do anything, but he will take certain steps in the right direction. In what direction did Rogozin take steps? this gentleman has a "magnificent" background - he oversaw the construction of "Vostochny", where they still cannot figure out who and how much money rested. And giant voids in concrete are found. If, God forbid, Rogozin is given 30 years - the industry will come complete and final this one. No, he, of course, can be given thirty years - but only in harsh conditions, in felt boots and a quilted jacket, with a saw "Friendship-2" in his hands. His muzzle is thick, he can cope.

Musk, no matter how I relate to his activities, opened the way for others. The moon fever is still far away, but when it starts, capital from all over the world will run to him and those like him. Privatization is simply a change in ownership. It does not mean the result

Stop. So it’s a matter of personality after all?

[carstorm 11]

Including. But I will repeat the question. How many launches has NASA made on its own rockets like Roscosmos? Everything else is without me. I don’t want to play your political games and will not.

[Ka-52]

Found someone to argue with, Dmitry. It's a sect. Judging by the answers, they didn't even understand your thought. "Putin-Rogozin-everything is gone" - that's their whole lexicon oh, yes, they also know how to give out cons only for one thing that does not agree with them

[Civil]

Quote: carstorm 11

own rockets like Roscosmos

And how many missiles does Roskosmos have? Not Soviet projects, your own? Was the hangar launched 2 times?

[carstorm 11]

Old developments or new ones but they are. NASA is a comparable agency in meaning and function. Nevertheless, for some reason that I do not understand, he compares commercial developments with these agencies. Of the 44 state launches last year, 25 were falcons. More than half a pancake. And there are only 5 atlases. That's all the answers.

[Civil]

Old developments

What do Soviet developments have to do with Roscosmos? Without Ukrainian enterprises (Ukrainian SSR), without a destroyed practical base in Baikonur (KazSSR)?

[Cosm22]

So whose fault, dear, that NASA figured out the priorities in time, left deep space and fundamental scientific research for itself, leaving the near space at the mercy of private traders, and Roskosmos did not think of such a simple thing, piled everything up for itself?
My?
Yours
Or maybe Roscosmos and the Russian government?
Who prevented the RK from encouraging private initiative? Give way to Russian masks? Or what - has the Russian land become impoverished in talents? I don’t think so.
It's all about the system. And there is no need to shield the Republic of Kazakhstan in general and Rogozin in particular. They are not the least to blame for the degradation of the Russian space industry.

[carstorm 11]

Here on this I completely agree with you. And the fault here is entirely the state. Although, in truth, we have something like this always ... prioritizing from the past centuries through one place ... everything works through a kick in this very place and does not come out otherwise. I don’t shield him. I just know that in 3 years he simply cannot do anything global. And I don't like to look for someone to blame and hang on to him. Everyone is to blame. Up and down all the way

[Klingon]

Duc great Pu is not interested in deep space. And no one up there. that's the whole story

[nickname7]

It is not right to blame Ragozin alone for the failures of Roscosmos, just as even one large organization cannot replace a country. Let me remind you that in the rear of Musk looms the technological and scientific superpower of the United States, it is this fact that explains his successes. State investments in education and science are dozens of times higher. RF is embedded in pipes.
By the way, even earlier, the competition in space between the USSR and the USA was a competition between countries, not organizations.
In general, the lag of Roskosmos is not due to Ragozin, but because a resource-based country cannot compete in the technological field with an industrial country.

[nickname7]

Who prevented the RK from encouraging private initiative? Give way to Russian masks?

So the problem is where to get masks in the Russian Federation, it seems that such will not be born in our conditions.
In the Russian Federation, as a rule, they prefer personal enrichment to some kind of space and create a spectacle for you with launch videos. You want the private trader to launch a lunar rover without sparing his belly so that you can admire it, but the private trader does not care about your Wishlist, he wants a ranch in California and ride a yacht in the tropics. Therefore, the private owner will sell the factory for metal and will be like that.
For example, Yevgenia Dankevich, chairman of the board of Otkritie Bank, who seemed respected and wealthy, but preferred to steal 34 mln rubles. from the entrusted property and escape.

[astepanov]

Quote: carstorm 11

How many launches has NASA made on its own rockets like Roscosmos?

Google in hand: USA in 2020 - 33 successful launches, 5 of them Atlas-5 with RD-180. Russia - 15 successful launches. Total, the score for launches on its own engines in 2020, the USA-Russia 28:15. Are you satisfied?

[carstorm 11]

Falcon is a NASA development?) This is news)))

[astepanov]

Well, then name the operating rocket developed by Roskosmos. I told you the number of missiles launched in the United States and developed in the United States. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the United States dispenses with Russian components. On the other hand, please tell us: how many Russian spacecraft and missiles do without imported components? And, by the way, Angara and other rockets were not developed by Roscosmos: for example, Angara is the brainchild of the Center named after Khrunichev.

[carstorm 11]

This is the mistake. You count private traders and agency together. I compare agencies and say that we also need private traders in this area. Sorry, but you need to compare things of equal value. And until we have private traders, we will lag behind more and more. And there will only be more private companies and they will finally capture the entire market. Yet before my eyes.

[astepanov]

Quote: carstorm 11

And until we have private traders, we will lag behind more and more.

Who and how will buy such a capital-intensive industry as the space industry? What shishi? And, on the other hand, we have a lot of private companies in the production of microelectronics and software. Have we become leaders? No, we're in the tail. So why do you think that space will be different? And why was the 100% state-owned space industry leading in the Soviet years? Is it because there was decent money in it, there was a demand from the leadership and there was no ignorant like Rogozin and his predecessors?

[carstorm 11]

With the right approach, it is quite feasible. Look at the UAV developers. Whose first drum machine is MO buying now? Orion. Whose is he? Private traders. Everything is possible. All the more so if the state represented by the Republic of Kazakhstan will create conditions for them.

[sannyhome]

Quote: carstorm 11

Well, put another person there. Nothing will change .

You know, a couple of years ago they wrote exactly the same thing about StarLink ... Now, just after these 2 years, there are more than a thousand satellites in orbit that serve ten thousand subscribers. From zero to a thousand satellites. Falcon9 sets records for the number of satellites launched into orbit. The same will happen here. And the trampoline master will suffer like garbage, looking for excuses

[Disant]

From zero to a thousand satellites

at whose expense, can you tell me?

[zlinn]

nearly 2 billion of private investments were collected for Starlink (including one pension fund)

[Disant]

zlinn, I can directly imagine a picture of how they walked around the world with their hat outstretched and collected them for the starlink ..
if something was collected, then there is no difference - 2 billion or 20 billions of private investment were collected - this is a private interest that arose for a reason and not from scratch - starlink is primarily a military system and they will not be allowed to warm the hands of strangers there.
the main costs - I think this is the fuzzy money of taxpayers, that is, the state budget. And the declared amount should be radically different from the funds spent.

[carstorm 11]

And these are not excuses but reality. Do you think there is an opportunity for a state agency to win from a private company?) Ideas, technologies cannot appear just like that. This requires a competitive environment. Fight. Well, they will change it and what will change?) Everything will be just as simple as another talking head will broadcast. It's time for a change. And for a long time. But the ossification and slowness of the state structure will bury everything.

[SHURUM -BURUM]

Rogozin has been running Roscosmos for three years. Three. Not 30. Well, put another person there. Nothing will change . Does not matter. Absolutely. Giving them tons of money won't help either.
Nothing will change there until an unselfish PRACTITIONER comes to this post, whose logic of thinking is, again, nurtured by practice - DO NOT TAKE SOME TASKS (IDEAS) AT ONCE! FINISHED ONE, TAKE ANOTHER! The path to the goal should be progressive, like building a house: foundation pit> foundation> walls> roof, and not vice versa.

[Cosm22]

There is reason to believe that nothing will ever change.
As soon as the disinterested PRACTITOR comes into contact with the system, he will immediately be caught between the gears of the state bureaucratic machine. A step to the left - nobody will give a step to the right. What are the new engines? What are the new concepts? What are the new media? What are the new QCs? You, dear comrade, mind your business. Bring to mind the projects Angara, Soyuz-5, Yenisei, Federation-Oryol, etc., which are already losing competition at the stage of sketch drawing, into which huge sums have already been poured. Don't do nonsense like Musk. This is the first thing.
And secondly, in the conditions of sequestration of the already meager budget of civilian space, no practice will do anything. Even if you give him complete freedom of action. He will simply be forced to roll on a knurled track.

[SHURUM -BURUM]

As soon as the disinterested PRACTITOR comes into contact with the system, he will immediately be caught between the gears of the state bureaucratic machine
A true true practitioner will never take up a job if his life experience and practice are in conflict with those who teach how to work without being responsible for the result. In such a position, a CAM specialist must set conditions, all kinds of advisors and employers, how to work.

[carstorm 11]

There is no need for a praetic, but a pragmatic businessman. Who is not chasing political gain, but doing business. Otherwise, everything will be exactly the same. Having a clear division into state interests and commercial interests. Otherwise, the state again pours in money and in the localities they pour it. But when your money is spinning ...

[SHURUM -BURUM]

There is no need for a practitioner, but a pragmatic businessman
It is not a businessman that is needed there, but a Chief Designer by vocation, by origin (from which maternity hospital are you), by the ability to think like a brilliant designer.

[carstorm 11]

You do not understand what the trouble is. Musk made RK simply by prices. And it will only get worse. Having lost the markets, it is almost impossible to return back. The designer must deal with rockets. And he simply will not be able to promote, sell, protect. You need to understand the priorities. It is necessary to build rockets, but if no one will use them, then what to do then? Musk is primarily a businessman and for this reason he does everything.

[sniperino]

Quote: carstorm 11

They will expand the moon much faster

Our lunar rovers marked the territory there long ago. Now we need to protect.

The new Russian lunar rover (Bauman Moscow State Technical University) has three versions (small, medium or heavy). It is planned to be launched under the Luna-25 program (presumably - 2022)

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: carstorm 11

Oga will not degrade but lose to private companies. And this is just inevitable. They are more flexible, faster, and more importantly, they know exactly what they will earn on it. And China will soon follow the same path. Profit-driven companies will simply destroy any government programs. Simple and easy. They will take all the brains to themselves. NASA opened this Pandora's Box for a reason. Even though Rogozin put even Platoshkin there for an example. It will not change anything.

Is it really necessary in terms of mining? It is difficult to imagine how these tens and hundreds of thousands of tons of the same silicon and cobalt will be delivered to Earth, if the cost of a kilogram of cargo delivered there from Earth will already cost tens of thousands of dollars, and the entire program for the development, equipment of stationary stations with life support systems, quarries, space "locomotives with wagons" and other pribludov will cost trillions. Most likely, this is a sly invitation to participate in the space race with the aim of sterilizing money that will be uselessly used to achieve the unrealizable.

[carstorm 11]

Now everything is changing so quickly that I would not be surprised at all that in 5 years it will become quite real.

[Old Orc]

All private companies are raised only on the basis of large government contracts. Russia and so professionally distributes money between "good and honest" it does not need to create another layer in the form of private companies. And in the USA it is not customary to do something without hype and advertising proving their advantage over everyone. And to prove to the suckers the possibility of realizing the American dream, there is no better way to spend money through a "genius" private trader. This solves 3 tasks at once: Advertising of the USA, Correct distribution of money. Obtaining the necessary space technology.

[carstorm 11]

Exactly. 25 launches of falcones out of all 44 is just such an advertisement) squeezing out of the markets by private traders is advertising), unfortunately, this is already a reality with which you cannot argue.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

As for the claims of the Americans on the moon ... Well, their hands are now virtually untied. Because the domestic cosmonautics is no longer, and the Chinese is not yet.

The American astronautics itself, to put it mildly, is not in the best shape!

[Snail N9]

The lunar race is indicative of the actual absence of Russian interests in it. The country, which several decades ago set the pace in the exploration of the moon, was on the sidelines.

Exactly - "on the second"? Confused nothing? But what about the priests who sanctify the rockets? Khokhloma? Rogozin's songs? And the breadboards? Yes, and plans, we have a huge ...

[Buchenland]

What is wrong with her?

[astepanov]

Don't bother: this article doesn't smell like analysis. Have you noticed the fraud? It starts with the fact that the resources on Earth will sooner or later be exhausted, and ends with the fact that there are resources on the Moon - but the author embarrassedly adds that only for the construction of bases. Well, it is still possible to extract He-3, which is either needed or not, because there is no technology for producing energy from it and it is not known whether there will be. If so, are these bases necessary?
Let's see what is real there. Well, yes, there is silicon. As much as about 20% content in the regolith. And in the earth's sand it is almost 50%. Do we need lunar silicon? No, it is not needed. Titanium? And titanium is not needed. The trick is that on Earth, water, tectonics and volcanism have worked as enrichment factories for billions of years, collecting and enriching elements. The moon is a dead world with an even distribution of elements. On average, there is a lot of titanium, but no earthly enrichment plant would take the lunar soil for processing, it is too poor. The second misfortune of the Moon is the lack of available energy. Aluminum production requires 15 kWh per 1 kg - and this is only for electrolysers, without the cost of extracting raw materials, enrichment, etc. Do you want to make 1 kg of aluminum per hour? Let me build a solar panel with an area of ​​100 sq. m with an efficiency of at least 30%. But this is not enough: it will be necessary to bring consumable graphite electrodes from the Earth, because the cat cried on the moon of carbon. And so - for all positions. The production of titanium will require the production of magnesium and chlorine. The same is for REE. As for the water supposedly on the moon, there are also continuous speculations: what reserves? In any form? Why hasn't the ice on the Moon evaporated over billions of years? Or maybe it's not ice, but minerals like gypsum or other crystalline hydrates? How much will it cost to extract such water? And obtaining oxygen with hydrogen: almost more than 5 kWh during electrolysis, energy consumption. Want to fly to Mars from the Moon? Then you need a powerful power plant and huge compressors, refrigerators, etc.
There is little hope for nuclear reactors on the Moon: on earth, any nuclear power plant contains huge cooling towers, or cooling ponds of hundreds and thousands of hectares, or the sea nearby - to remove heat from the reactor. Without this, it will explode in a matter of hours. But the Moon has no supply of cooling water, not even air.
About precious metals. On the moon they certainly are, especially the platinum group. But concentrated, most likely, in the so-called. mascons - sources of gravity anomalies. Those, in turn, are most likely ancient asteroids stuck under the lunar surface at depths of hundreds of kilometers.
Summary: they will fly to the moon. But there is no need to talk about it as a source of resources for the next hundreds of years. So far, this is a muscle flexing, a search for vague military advantages and empty show-offs.

[Mr. 9mm]

You are confusing something. Since 2015, the Roskosmos base has been operating on the Moon, with might and main they are producing either lithium, or tritium, or something very necessary.

[Vladimir_2U]

the rest, as Dmitry Rogozin aptly put it, in the role of "apprentices".

Dmitry Olegovich was specially taught to express himself aptly, it is a pity that not in a technical university.

[syndicalist]

Maybe he will choose an equally "apt" expression for Russia's role in the exploration of the moon?

[Uncle lee]

But since the beginning of the XXI century, the USA, Japan, China, India and the European Union have sent more than 20 research vehicles to the natural satellite of the Earth, and Russia no one.

What a mastery of the moon !!! Far Eastern hectares cannot be mastered!

[Ross xnumx]

The Pentagon has declared the Earth satellite its area of ​​responsibility

Is it enshrined in some official international memorandum, or is it just “another nonsense” of the person on duty in America?
Although Russia, officially pushed aside in space exploration to the third place, has probably already expressed its concern and discontent? This is what the British Prime Minister spoke about. A small part of that same "SHAME" when the statehood of the power entrusted to you ceases to be reckoned with.

Case for small - learn to relatively inexpensively deliver the isotope to Earth and create an operating thermonuclear reactor for it.

Indeed, what should we build TOKAMAK-2? Almost the same as "Dom-2" ...
True, there is still the Van Allen radiation belt, which the Americans “heroically” overcame earlier (before they staked out plots on the Moon). There are slight inconveniences for astronauts who have to work on a satellite ... Well, this is generally a trifle, compared to the organization of mass transportation ...

[Snail N9]

Far Eastern hectares cannot be mastered!

Do not distort ... With the development of the "Far Eastern hectare" there were some objective difficulties: the cosmodrome for flights there, they are still completing the construction ... and there is not enough deadwood for the missiles ...

[tasha]

"The moon is not wasa, but nasa" - others think so.
China plans to land on the moon in 2028. Taking into account the success of the PRC in manned astronautics, one can think that the mission will take place at the appointed time.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: tasha

Taking into account the success of the PRC in manned astronautics, one can think that the mission will take place at the appointed time.

Taking into account the successes of the PRC, it would first send its astronauts on an "excursion" flight along the route: "Earth - Moon - several revolutions around the Moon - Earth". At the same time, it would be nice to wait for the launched astronauts alive, because something forbids me to believe 100% in the exploration of the Moon by the Americans.

[Per se.]

Quote: tasha

"The moon is not wasa, but nasa" - others think so.

No, the moon is NASA, and not wasa, so they believe in the United States, after the enchanting conquest of the moon by their Hollywood "ASTRALONauts".

[Lech from Android.]

Explore outer space without solving the internal problems of mankind on Earth ... smacks of utopia.
The cosmonauts will fly away to the Moon and here on Earth there is a military conflict with the use of nuclear weapons ... there will be nowhere to return back.
The contradictions between the capitalist countries have not gone anywhere and they are only growing and God knows what these contradictions will result in a world war or a global crisis.
In any case, releasing humanity into deep space is risky ... it is not yet ripe for this ... many global problems have not been resolved ... hunger, poverty, wars, various conflicts.
We still cannot protect our planet from asteroid bombardment, and our civilization can disappear at any moment if a gift from the asteroid belt falls on our head from the asteroid belt with a diameter of 10 km ... what kind of space exploration ... would we survive on our own.
The world's oceans have been developed for a fraction of a percent, and we are climbing the moon.

[tasha]

Even in space, even in the ocean, even in the Arctic. We need to go somewhere. Otherwise we'll be lost.
Look around - where and on what human and other resources are spent.

[Mykhalych]

Take it quickly To stake out a star named the Sun and may all the Anglo-Saxons pay for the energy received from OUR FACILITY!

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Mykhalych

To stake out a star named the Sun

We flew to her under Brezhnev, at night, so as not to burn out ... (According to anecdote)

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Mykhalych

Take it quickly To stake out a star named the Sun and may all the Anglo-Saxons pay for the energy received from OUR FACILITY!

Claim a percentage from the racketeer ?! Original!

[your1970]

Quote: Starover_Z

Quote: Mykhalych

Take it quickly To stake out a star named the Sun and may all the Anglo-Saxons pay for the energy received from OUR FACILITY!

Claim a percentage from the racketeer ?! Original!

Nothing original, the police are in the share and cover (c) the people .... Business is that !!! .....

[Cowbra]

There is a lot of idle talk on this topic, but no specifics. Well, why pour from empty to empty?

[U-58]

American statements will become the thunder after which our Russian space man will have to cross himself.
Instead of ephemeral space programs, a very specific goal appears, the achievement of which will require the exertion of all the forces of the country.

[nikvic46]

How not to fight until the moment when the moon is reached. Now PR is in the first place. And we are not talking about the prudent use of elements that will soon become scarce. About the disposal of equipment, the development of the Arctic and Antarctica. Recently, only one country has delivered soil from a satellite of the Earth. True to the old method. But the trouble is dashing, the beginning.

[Pessimist22]

Which Moon? Markets are overheated and only thanks to lower rates and government support afloat, as soon as the pandemic ends, rates will rise and a wave of bankruptcies will roll.

[HaByxoDaBHocep]

And we will build our own amusement park with blackjack and whores)

[rocket757]

[quote] Moon NASA. The Pentagon has declared the Earth satellite its zone of responsibility [quote]
Quite expected. There will be a race, rivalry ... we can say that we will see, BUT, it is desirable to participate / be present in the process in reality, and not from the outside to observe.

[mark1]

In the lunar race, it is probably not the one who will be the first to trample the dust on the moon with his heel, and not even the one who will be the first to create inhabited stations there, but the one who will be the first to have an effective Earth-Moon-Earth transport system. There is still no one to brag about, but only our nuclear transport module is on the horizon (as it is not stably looming).
Dmitry Olegovich, I think, you should not have a nightmare in the style of a capricious child (take out and bring the candy here) in conditions when they constantly beat his hands and take money away. At least, practically on the ashes, with all the shortcomings, a person does not lose courage and optimism

[Ros 56]

Hey striped, well, we, too, are on a blue melon shit, but to get so drunk to grab the moon, no ..., this was not. Would you have a snack, perhaps, unfinished soldiers, or have you cut your ration?

[steelmaker]

There was an accident. The shop stood up. All the bosses go to the 6th grade locksmith, the foreman, and ask: "What to do?" Because the bosses, starting from the foremen, neither maintained this equipment and never worked on it. And so everywhere! You come to the housing office, a master woman. I'm not against women, but you need to know the basics, and not just poke a finger at a locksmith to fix a malfunction. The military is commanded by those who have not served in the army. By space, journalists - philologists, etc. And then we are surprised that Russia, the richest country in the world, cannot create anything. No, I'm lying. There was recently an article that our agricultural machinery is popular. Only I have a question: "When will Russia's successes be reflected in any way on the welfare of the people?" Why did the prices for food rise by 10-25% when the harvest is full and the machinery is ready to be snapped up? Because mediocrities lead us !!!!

[Snail N9]

In Russia, a clan-family economy has been built, based on the same clan-family vertical of power. Hence all the failures, in all branches and areas of life:

[Roman070280]

Only I have a question: "When will Russia's successes be reflected in any way on the welfare of the people?"

I also always add to this:

Before spending huge money on defense, you need to create for people the standard of living that they want to protect.

[Snail N9]

Why, for all the people it (a decent standard of living) to create? It is enough to create it for: policemen, security officials, national guardsmen ...

[Roman070280]

That is why I do not understand the local patriots who are ready to fight for the Putin-Sechin palaces and yachts ..
They scare us with America and NATO .. ​​they will seize us, they say .. they will take away something ..
And what difference does it make to the people who are captured ..

[Snail N9]

So Russia is "developing" by leaps and bounds: moving from one side to the "electronic concentration camp", when you will be asked for the excess of expenses over income, even by 1 ruble - "dam specialist" and for falling incomes such as "income from the garden", etc. lived, breathed the air of this country, which means - "damologist" ... and on the other hand, an estate state is being built with untouchables at the top and a priority for servants and lackeys ... Well, for example, here:

The government has supported a bill that allows children of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Guard to enter specialized universities on a priority basis. This is stated in the response of the Cabinet of Ministers, published in the electronic database of the State Duma.


The bill was proposed in December last year by United Russia deputies Alexander Khinshtein, Vasily Piskarev and Vyacheslav Nikonov. The authors pointed out that now only children of the military have priority admission to specialized educational institutions.

The amendments propose to give an advantage when enrolling in universities under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Russian Guard, children of security officials, as well as contract soldiers in the National Guard troops, whose service experience is at least 20 years, as well as former employees, whose experience was also at least 20 years.

Kabin as a whole supported the bill, but proposed to extend the amendment about 20 years of service to the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

Source - https://news.mail.ru/society/45150

[Prisoner]

Why only the moon? Come on and the sun. Better yet, get yourself together and drop in a crowd on the moon for permanent residence.

[Snail N9]

That's right, let everyone go to the moon for permanent residence, and we will invite more Uzbek-Tajiks for ourselves ... And in general, for the Russian economy, precisely for its realities: ten Uzbek-Tajiks completely replace one NASA engineer ...

[Prisoner]

I don't know if there is any benefit to Russia from the NACA engineer, most likely not. But from the Uzbeks and Tajiks, who work there, where you will not find ours in the afternoon with fire. And your undisguised arrogance is not appropriate here. PS: And in general, I meant the Pentagon for permanent residence on the Moon (I hope you will not prove the benefits of this office for the Russian Federation?)

[Snail N9]

I say, and you also, it was confirmed for the Russian "economy" Uzbek-Tajiks are more important and needed more than "NASA engineers" ... Well ... our "economy" is so ...

[Prisoner]

Regular. And we have enough engineers of our own.

[Undecim]

Nevertheless, in 2015, the United States passed a law "On the Exploration and Use of Space Resources", which allows private companies to extract minerals on celestial bodies, including asteroids
For some reason, everyone forgets that Trump in this law instructed the State Department and other relevant departments to hold negotiations at the international level to conclude agreements on the development and extraction of resources on the Moon and other space bodies.
We will continue the fantastic story with disclosures. In 1967, the United States signed the "Treaty on the Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies."
But the Agreement on the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies was concluded within the framework of the UN on December 18, 1979, which extends international law to the Moon and all other celestial bodies, except for the Earth, including orbits around these bodies, and proclaims the principle of exclusively peaceful use of the Moon and others. celestial bodies, the principle of equal rights of all states to research celestial bodies, the principle of inadmissibility of claims from any state to extend its sovereignty to any celestial body, the United States did not sign and does not recognize it.
Both of these documents unambiguously affirm the principle of non-appropriation of celestial bodies, but the issue of their natural resources is more complex and can be interpreted ambiguously, which is what the United States took advantage of, initiating the rule-making process in international law.
That is, in this case, no one will pay attention to the outraged cries. The result can only be given by concrete actions to "conclude agreements on the development and extraction of resources on the Moon and other space bodies", supported by the existence of specific and ongoing space programs for the development of these fossils.
Countries with and running such programs will dictate terms and agreements.
The rest will "express concern."

[DmSol]

So far, the Americans have not observed any breakthrough technologies in the development of manned space. The old systems are being rebuilt to a new electronic base. So with the capabilities that mankind now has, more or less tangible development of the satellite will take more than one hundred years (and this is when there is a real need to master something). From the fact that in the next few years a conditionally inhabited base will appear there, nothing will change for Russia, except for panic screams on the Internet that everything is gone. Here you need to understand the psychology of Americans. For them, in any endeavor, it is important to organize a show. More screams and PR. All this I mean is that we will have time yet. The question is not about a specific lunar base, but about fundamentally new solutions in the energy sector. And these issues are being resolved here on Earth.

[Boris55]

Something I have not heard that the protection of astronauts from space radiation has already been developed. All inhabited ships and stations are under the protection of the Earth, but this protection has the limits of incl. it is too early to talk about a person going beyond these limits and flying to the moon.

[Freedim]

This is all bullshit ... No businessman will invest in something that (possibly) will be profitable long after his death. And it is unrealistic to exclusively state funding in the proper amounts against the background of the current economic situation. The Bucks is already on fire - the states need another war to write off their debts .. And parallelizing the costs of war and space during an economic crisis means merging both here and there.
To create the smallest mining center on the Moon, tens of thousands of tons of equipment, not counting fuel and water, need to be pounded there. And if all this also has to be protected from an external threat, then it can be multiplied by two. Plus orbital stations near the Earth and the Moon. Even if the Americans recreate an analogue of "Saturn", thousands of carriers will be needed .. Yes, they simply won't have enough fuel for all this movement.

[lasroc]

NASA Moon. The Pentagon has declared the Earth satellite its area of ​​responsibility

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

a lunar quarry with a size of 100 × 100 m and a depth of 10 m (the volume of loose matter in natural bedding) contains a significant amount of useful materials

How does the author know this?
Given that the sampling of soil samples was counted on the fingers and occurred only from the surface no deeper than a meter.


Remote sensing methods give a tentatively hypothetical result, and even then for the surface layers "contaminated" by the meteorite material introduced.
Make statements like this. without accurate measurements (drilling to the appropriate depths) - frivolous.
What is now known about the composition of the lunar surface:

The chemical composition of lunar rocks differs between "seas" and continents. Oxygen, silicon, aluminum and magnesium are typical constituents of silicate rocks, of which the crust of the terrestrial planets is mainly composed. In the lunar "seas" there is more titanium and iron, while in the mainland there is more aluminum. Titanium is presented mainly in the composition of the mineral ilmenite - a mixture of iron oxide (wustite) and titanium oxide. Map of the distribution of iron oxides on the lunar surface

https://m.habr.com/en/post/371621/

Map of the distribution of iron oxides on the lunar surface.

Accordingly, the beginning of the development of minerals on the lunar surface is a stage in the distant future (within tens of years to satisfy one's own needs, up to a hundred years). It will be necessary to create production redistributions directly on the Moon, as well as consumers - industrial production on the surface of a natural satellite, since the logistics of both ore materials and their low limits both to near-earth orbit and to the lunar orbit is unprofitable.

[1536]

If this continues, the Pentagon may declare that the Sun is also its area of ​​responsibility. And at the same time to develop a special "screen / cover" to close those who disagree with this decision from the Sun, not allowing the sun's rays to reach them.
Yes, once again you are convinced that the unbelted boor is a terrible force if no one rebuffs him.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: 1536

If this goes on, the Pentagon may declare that the Sun is also its area of ​​responsibility.

As before they seized territories - who had stuck the flag earlier and managed to keep it from stronger opponents.
Likewise, with extraterrestrial objects - the ownership right will be established by the one who is stronger and more technically advanced - at least can declare some of the promising plots as property (for future industrial development) and protect them.
The agreement on the activities of states on the moon and other celestial bodies was concluded within the framework of the UN on December 18, 1979. (the principle of equal rights of all states to research celestial bodies, the principle of inadmissibility of claims on the part of any state to extend its sovereignty to any celestial body) - is not eternal.
To stake out a site for a lunar base and future developments is still ahead, there is no doubt about it.

[Lycan]

Hmm, doesn't this sound like the Strategic Defense Initiative back in 1983? Such a public provocation can be made to work to wear down the economies of all ambitious (in terms of conquering space) countries, thereby depleting the potential for measured development and joint progressive study of space. space. In short, "sow competition to wear down economies."

[meandr51]

Quite right. Most of today's "megaprojects" are earthly scams. You don't have to get carried away.

[Knell wardenheart]

All this fits well into the formula "who did it and ate it." If everything has worked this way for millennia, it would be naive to expect what will not be so now.
All states rowed everything they could reach for themselves - in this situation, the United States is closest to the task of mastering the moon (at the moment), in fact, they will write music.

[Snail N9]

Here people laugh and sneer .... Americans do nothing without benefit for themselves. Now they are posting the moon, then Mars and so on. The people have forgotten that, in fact, nobody canceled the right of the first one. And then all those who will follow will have to buy materials from American research, their technologies and permits, and they will stake out priority areas for themselves on the planets and what next? ... I'm afraid we will be left with our "wit" and "trampolines" on the sidelines ... Although, yes, we have a large territory, there is enough for all the Chinese ...

[Knell wardenheart]

Unfortunately, this is so (The paradox is that, being a resource and space power, we are now handing over cards in batches in this direction - both with the Moon and with asteroids. The same Nuclona project, on which one could rely and "raise our value "for the world cosmonautics, or to increase your chances in setting the flag, as they say - it is not developing very quickly, I am afraid that we will really come to a shaposh analysis on the same Moon, we will again shake the air and knock" Kalashnikov "on the table, then trying to frighten then appealing to some mossy UN documents from the time of the Tsar of the Peas. We need to prepare for our tomorrow already yesterday, now I do not feel this preparation in our country ..

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Snail N9

I'm afraid we will stay with our "wit" and "trampolines" on the sidelines ...

The USSR was wiser - with Antarctica the same story was as it begins with the Moon, but they found money for the Vostok and Mirny bases - they staked out plots.
And comrade trampoline does not understand that time is playing against the Russian Federation.

[meandr51]

I think the Americans have not been to the moon and will not. This is all sawing the dough and hype, like with the coronavirus. You need to live more calmly, to equip your house.

[rruvim]

Didn't they ask the Chinese?

[Peaceful SEO]

With the Moon, everything is very simple: whoever can begin development faster and organize military security will be on top. And all contracts and other crap are pieces of paper for their intended use.

[yfast]

Quote: Peaceful SEO

With the Moon, everything is very simple: whoever can begin development faster and organize military security will be on top. And all contracts and other crap are pieces of paper for their intended use.

And put on the cost of production and delivery.

[Plate]

Our society is almost exclusively driven by consumption. The problem smoothly flows from the economic plane to the military - wars will eventually start over depleted resources.

We always have wars for resources, as noted above in the comments.
In general, what to say. Whoever is the first to start developing the moon as a source of economic wealth, it will be unambiguously great news. Because others will have to:
1. Or also fly to the Moon and develop it;
2. Either compensate for the absence of the Moon by increasing the efficiency of the development of earth's resources, but this path is ultimately a dead end, as for me;
3. Or simply disappear as something large (we are talking about a country or a private corporation).
Ultimately, everyone who wants to continue to fight for a place at the helm of our world will have to fly to the moon, if at least someone should fly there seriously. And from here to the exploration of Mars is closer than from the first flight into space to the exploration of the Moon. Let's quickly get used to
So I propose to watch and enjoy the lunar achievements! Whoever they were!

[FrankyStein]

In theory, taking into account the radiation, it will be necessary to reduce the stay of astronauts in the lunar orbit, that is, it will be necessary to carry out rotation often. And if the manned maneuvers every time start on super-heavy from the ground, how many babos skin will be burned on only one delivery? It would be logical to make a shuttle running away between the moon and the earth.

[Chief Engineer]

There are no breakthrough technologies in the light of space exploration and the earth's satellite, which means that the fantasies indicated in the article will remain just fantasies.

[andrew42]

NASA Moon ??! - Yes her, "Moon nasa!", The Chinese will say :)

[NF68]

Then they will declare their property.

[sannyhome]

Quote: Disant

at whose expense, can you tell me?

Yes, do not care. Only the result is important.

[sannyhome]

Quote: Boris55

Bryakhnya. Doesn't it seem strange to you that not a single dog flew past the moon and came back alive, but immediately a man?

The funny thing is, it doesn't matter anymore. Especially if in the near future they confirm this success with a new landing.

[zenion]

The Americans had to write for which part of the moon they are responsible, because the Chinese can also answer. The Americans may say tomorrow that the Chinese are all proof that the Americans were thrown into Space on the Moon.

[faterdom]

future American bases on the moon will be guarded by the Pentagon.

This is where they dispose of their BLM personnel ...
They will be recruited into the US space forces, Elon Musk will take them in new uniforms to the moon, and then - new elections of Democrats by e-mail, the inauguration back and forth there, the National Guard, these scum will forget to bring oxygen ... You can even open a branch of the Arlington Cemetery there, because then transporting the bodies back is unprofitable.

[tralflot1832]

So far, nothing breakthrough for space flight has been created, the principle is the same rocket engine. And it is very expensive. Maximum cargo delivered from space? The laws of physics have not been canceled! Potatoes, with vodka and under herring with mushrooms is a thing! Continue: All lost, the Americans squeezed the moon! And I will wait for our rocket with a vigorous engine!

[Pavel57]

There is a hypothesis that the Americans claimed Antarctica, but got in the teeth in southern latitudes, after which Antarctica received its current status.

[Berg berg]

America can say anything, but the Moon has long belonged to Russia and is privately owned!

[Olkhovsky]

I Space war is not far off. All the prerequisites are on the face. The moon is the new "America" ​​from the time of Columbus.

[duchy]

Why not Mars at once ???

[Venya Selnikov]

You can only allow mining in the controlled territory, isn't it?

Resource maritime law says hello.
It has long been possible to extract (and appropriate what has been obtained) not only from your own territory.
There is definitely a problem.
And relying here on the Space Treaty of the sixties is inadequate. It was written over half a century ago! Very general phrases.
This is all nice, but the reality is that as long as there are different states, there can be disagreements between them.
And we need a different agreement, without common words. It's long overdue. Which will more clearly define the concept of "good" and will allow it to explore space without empty general phrases "for the good of all and in the name of peace in the world."
It is clear that the United States is writing the law to suit its interests. This is normal, and, IMHO, any state should do this. Russia is unhappy. Fine! Well, write your own rules and master space by your own rules!
And so - this is an empty concussion of air.

[minus]

And where are these figures for the content of elements in 100000 cubic meters? Does not converge, taking into account the maximum and average density of the regolith and the percentage of elements in the regolith.