Military Review

Comments on the "Note of Peter the Great on the fortifications"

78

Leafing through the pages of the 1st volume of the magazine "Russian Starina" for 1870, I, as an old artilleryman, drew attention to the "Note of Peter the Great on the fortresses" (pp. 393–394), which was quoted without any comments. It deals, in addition to the arrangement of the fortresses themselves, of the fortress artillery.


Here the "Note" is rendered in modern spelling and punctuation, while the geographical names of the original are preserved.

Peter the Great's note on the fortifications.

December 6 1724 year.

Fortecia are regular ready-made.

Pieterburkh, Keksholm, Narva, Ivangorod, Riga, Dinament, Pskov, Holy Cross, Kiev on Pechera, Arkhangelskaya City.

To replenish these, where there is not enough, with artillery, as much as the fortress requires, and with ammunition for two sieges; gunners will be enough for 2 guns 3 people and the proportion of officers. Kiev Old, in my opinion, it is better to leave one outer rampart from the line that we made from the Pechersk fortress to the end of the mountain to the Dnieper, and ruin the rest, which I rely on the military council.

Comments on the "Note of Peter the Great on the fortifications"

Fortecia is a fortress.

Piterburkh is the name of St. Petersburg in the spelling of Peter the Great.

Keksholm (correctly - Kexholm) is the Swedish name of the city of Korela, now Priozersk.

Dinament (correctly - Dunamunde) is the German name of the fortress, the Russian name is Ust-Dvinsk, now - Daugavgriva.

Holy Cross - Fortress of the Holy Cross, which existed in 1722-1732. on the territory of the present Babayurtovsky district of Dagestan. It was built during the Persian campaign on the territory that became part of Russia under the Petersburg Treaty (1723).

Arkhangelsk city - Arkhangelsk.

The gunner is a lower rank artilleryman.

Fortecia and citadels that are being made, and must be done.

Schlutelburg, Smolensk, Elections, which should be much strengthened.

Derben, Baka, Gilani and Mizondron.

It is not possible to put in how many and which ones should be put until we receive a genuine card and the advice of the officers there.

Shlisselburg

Schlutelburg - Schlisselburg, the German name of the Oreshek fortress, assigned to it by Peter I after the capture in 1702 under the Swedish name Noteburg. Permanently remained a part of Russia under the Treaty of Nystadt (1721).

Elections - Vyborg. Under Peter I, it was part of Russia under the Treaty of Nystad (1721).

Derben - Derbent. Under Peter I, it was part of Russia under the Petersburg Treaty (1723).

Baka - Baku. Under Peter I, it was part of Russia under the Petersburg Treaty (1723).

"In Gilani". Gilan, Gilan - a region in Persia; under Peter I, it was part of Russia under the Petersburg Treaty (1723). Here we can talk about two Russian fortresses built in this area as a result of the Persian campaign - Yekaterinopol and the New Fortress.

Mizondron - Mazandaran, a region in Persia; under Peter I, it was part of Russia under the Petersburg Treaty (1723). Here we can talk about the city of Astrabad (now the city of Gurgan in the province of Golestan).

Kronstadt is a very great fort, in which two thousand guns are needed. But the maintenance of this artillery and servants of a small cat requires, for the gunners of one company are enough, even when the fleet is at sea there is no fear, and when at home, not a thousand good gunners from fleet you can use it.

Also cannon machines from the admiralties may contain.

Only the repair of the fortification and the above-mentioned company should determine whether it is reasonable to maintain it as it is now; and meanwhile to think, when Rogorvik is fortified, will they be needed?

Nowadays it cannot be honored for the fortification; and if you finish it the way it was conceived and three bolvars were made, then at twenty years old you will not finish, the Swedes have made one bolvarka for 17 years.

In addition, if these bastions are directly besieged by people, then more than 10000 garrisons are needed and several thousand cannons.

Cost - dependency, maintenance costs.

Rogorvik - Rakovor, now the Estonian town of Rakvere. Under Peter I, it was part of Russia under the Treaty of Nystad (1721).

Bolvarok - bolverk; here: the bastion, as Peter himself speaks of.

Small citadels.

Perevolochna, Pereyaslav, Bryansk, Pavlovsky, Tsaritsyn, Luke, Chernigov.

In these, one cannoneer is enough for a gun and a year of ammunition.

Perevolochna is a fortified settlement founded in the XIV century, near which the remnants of the Swedish army escaping from the Poltava field were taken prisoner. Doesn't exist now.

Pereyaslav is a city where in 1654 Hetman Bogdan Mikhailovich Khmelnitsky and his army took an oath of allegiance to Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich.

Pavlovsky - now Pavlovsk, a walled city founded by Peter I in 1709, after the Battle of Poltava.

Tsaritsyn is now Volgograd.

Luke is now Great Luke.

New Tranjament - leave as it is until the time.

New Tranzhement (French for "earth fortification") is a fortress built after the abandonment of Azov to monitor the actions of the Turks in the border area, as well as to control the situation on the Don, which was important after the uprising of Kondraty Bulavin (1707-1708).

After the conclusion of the Adrianople Peace Treaty with the Ottoman Empire in 1713, Russia was forced to abandon the Monastic Transition (in the Monastyrsky Yar) 4 versts from Cherkassk and build a new one in the Vasilievskiye Bugry tract, two versts above Cherkassk, where Peter's headquarters was located in 1695 I.

The location of the New tranchement was unfortunate: the annual floods of the Don eroded the earthen ramparts, and the inner area of ​​the fortification was flooded.

Cities with towers are irregular.

Tobolsk, Kazan, Ufa, Astrakhan.

In these, it seems, three or four cannons per tower are enough, and one cannoneer for two cannons, for in time of need everywhere it is possible to determine from soldiers or other people gantlangers how much is needed to help the gunners.

Gantlanger, or rather gandlanger - gunner's assistant.

Pskov.

It seems that inside, Novgorod can also be found.

Such is given to the gene. the prosecutor. Yagushinsky.

Pavel Ivanovich Yaguzhinsky - Prosecutor General; military rank - general-in-chief.

It remains unclear why Peter I did not instruct to hand over this "Note" to General Feldzheikhmeister (chief of artillery) Ya.V. Bruce.










Source: otzyv.ru
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 22 January 2021 12: 34
    +1
    Milestones in the history of our great country and the people who made the country great.
  2. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 22 January 2021 13: 09
    +1
    The note of Peter the Great shows which areas the sovereign considered the most important, where there was the highest danger of enemy invasion. Powerful bastion-type fortresses were erected along the borders with Sweden and at strategically important points. And where the enemy's invasion was unlikely, temporary or earth fortifications were dispensed with.
  3. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 22 January 2021 13: 42
    -2
    Very Petrovsky - nicherta not understanding the matter, crawling into not his own concern, not having anything to say plainly. Why the hell did this dilettante undertake to determine the number of specialists specifically for fortresses? Moreover, everything is different, obviously taken arbitrarily. The only consideration that I deign to give is that in Kronstadt it will be possible to assemble "more than one thousand gunners" by removing them from the ships!
    Where did this prankster get, from his raw firewood, which for some reason he stubbornly called the fleet, "not one thousand" gunners ?! There weren't even a couple of hundred! Liar. And how did he see it? The gunners ran away from the decks at a run, ran into an absolutely alien economy, and immediately began to shoot? Someone had a teaspoon of brains ...
    A separate beauty is Rogervikakaya harbor, which this traitor considered already almost ready, and it is about to "be equipped". The Rogervik harbor is an excellent illustration of the entire reign of Peter the Great, its "brilliant transformations", managerial skills and other beauties with which this worker "equipped Russia."
    Attempts to build a "fort" in Rogervik harbor, according to my memory, continued for more than 10 years. Every year, spring storms completely demolished everything built. It was impossible to build there, it was not humanly possible to build something with those technologies. But the "great builder" ordered! And they built ... How many money and people were killed in this harbor - do not count! Ugh....
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 22 January 2021 14: 50
      +2
      Attempts to build a "fort" in Rogervik harbor, according to my memory, continued for more than 10 years.
      "Fortecia" was built from 1718 to 1762. And they did. True, it was never used for its intended purpose.
      But the hydrotechnical structures in the form of a breakwater to protect the harbor could not be built, no matter how many tried.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 22 January 2021 15: 02
        0
        I agree. Here I got a little carried away, the fortification was indeed built. Since all this is a harbor, for ships, for me the project is one, Ostap has suffered) From my conclusions, I, of course, will not refuse. How do you like the rest? Brilliant instructions from a great man?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 22 January 2021 15: 52
          +3
          The costs of the autocracy. Since then, nothing has changed much.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 22 January 2021 15: 24
        -1
        Why should I be silent? Because you don't like my speech? Buy your own internet and start your own censorship) Or I think that the shortcomings of some do not justify the shortcomings of others. That is, if a person is a thief, he is a thief, regardless of the fact that others also steal. He is not justified by the fact that there are others.
        Peter was a provocateur and a destructor, actively destroying, and as a result, destroyed the enormous superiority of Russia on the continent. And the fact that there were no geniuses around does not negate this at all.
        1. icant007
          icant007 22 January 2021 17: 37
          -4
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Peter was a provocateur and a destructor,


          Let me be curious, what did you destroy and what provocations did you commit?
          1. Marine engineer
            Marine engineer 22 January 2021 19: 08
            +2
            In the era of Peter the Great blow was dealt to the Pomor shipbuilding. The "alignment" to the west led to the fact that the local shipbuilding in Pomorie lost all importance in the eyes of the government. Peter I demanded the construction of ships in the European manner. On December 28, 1715, Peter I sent a decree to the Arkhangelsk vice-governor, which said: “Upon receipt of this decree, announce to all industrialists who go to the sea for fishing on their boats and koch, so that instead of those ships they would make sea courts of galiots, gukars, kats, flutes, who wants which of them, and for that (while they will correct themselves with new sea vessels) they are given only two years to sail on old ones. " In 1719, the Pomors wrote a complaint to the tsar that “they were ordered to build river boats for navigation”. Peter allowed to leave the existing ships - karbas, soyma, kochi, but forbade the construction of new ones, threatening with reference to hard labor. By a special act, it was forbidden to send goods from Arkhangelsk on ships of the "previous case".
            That was such a great "specialist" in navigation in the Arctic seas.
            1. Bogatyrev
              Bogatyrev 23 January 2021 02: 01
              -1
              Quote: Marine Engineer
              That was such a great "specialist" in navigation in the Arctic seas.

              I recognize typically Russian reformist schools ...
              However, it must be admitted that, despite them, Peter's reforms brought Russia to the top positions in terms of industry and became the basis for the country's modernization.
              1. georggy
                georggy 23 January 2021 05: 13
                -2
                Bogatyrev, indicate the first positions on the cactus. List.
                1. Bogatyrev
                  Bogatyrev 23 January 2021 23: 47
                  +1
                  For the production of cast iron, for example.
                  But only until the 19th century, then England began to overtake strongly.
              2. Diviz
                Diviz 23 January 2021 09: 59
                +1
                Now Ukraine is for Russia as well as Russia for India and Scandinavia in Romanov times from 1612 to 1725.
            2. icant007
              icant007 23 January 2021 18: 08
              -6
              Is that all? Well, this is not serious. With all due respect to the Pomor shipbuilding.
          2. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 25 January 2021 09: 30
            0
            Before Peter, Russia exported up to 1000 guns a year. They were poured at the Cannon Yard for themselves and sold to Europe. Peter completely destroyed the work of the Cannon Yard, dispersed the craftsmen (some of them left for Europe, you have to live), and Russia switched to importing cannons. This is a small part of the destroyed and destroyed. I recommend reading how Peter collected taxes ...
            1. icant007
              icant007 25 January 2021 11: 09
              -7
              Oh really. And from whose raw material did they pour?
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 25 January 2021 11: 46
                0
                In Russia, for the first time in modern history, cast iron was mastered. "Pig iron" was bought up everywhere, in general there was raw material) Copper in Lovozero ... there was something to cast, although large deposits had not been discovered yet.
                1. icant007
                  icant007 25 January 2021 12: 13
                  -7
                  Wonderful. Why then did they buy iron and copper from Sweden?
                  1. Mikhail3
                    Mikhail3 25 January 2021 14: 17
                    0
                    Not enough of their own - to pour a cannon. There was high-tech production before Peter, and Sweden was a raw material appendage)
                    1. icant007
                      icant007 25 January 2021 20: 17
                      -7
                      Quote: Mikhail3
                      and Sweden was a raw material appendage)


                      Well, as an option)

                      Quote: Mikhail3
                      High-tech production before Peter was

                      Yes, we have more than enough talents. The only problem is with the implementation of ideas.
                      There was high-tech production, but too little.

                      Take, for example, the Pyskorsky copper-smelting plant, opened in 1635. The annual capacity is 100 poods of copper, which is slightly more than one and a half tons. What can be cast from this? With a gulkin's nose.
                      1. Mikhail3
                        Mikhail3 26 January 2021 08: 54
                        0
                        A thousand guns a year - more than any state of the then Europe. And that's just export. The implementation was great. Until Peter broke the technological chains.
                      2. icant007
                        icant007 26 January 2021 09: 20
                        -7
                        Quote: Mikhail3
                        a thousand guns a year - more


                        Where did you get such data?
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 22 January 2021 15: 20
    -1
    Quote: Mikhail3
    Very Petrovsky - nicherta not understanding the matter, crawling into not his own concern, not having anything to say plainly. Why the hell did this dilettante undertake to determine the number of specialists specifically for fortresses? Moreover, everything is different, obviously taken arbitrarily. The only consideration that I deign to give is that in Kronstadt it will be possible to assemble "more than one thousand gunners" by removing them from the ships!
    Where did this prankster get, from his raw firewood, which for some reason he stubbornly called the fleet, "not one thousand" gunners ?! There weren't even a couple of hundred! Liar. And how did he see it? The gunners ran away from the decks at a run, ran into an absolutely alien economy, and immediately began to shoot? Someone had a teaspoon of brains ...
    A separate beauty is Rogervikakaya harbor, which this traitor considered already almost ready, and it is about to "be equipped". The Rogervik harbor is an excellent illustration of the entire reign of Peter the Great, its "brilliant transformations", managerial skills and other beauties with which this worker "equipped Russia."
    Attempts to build a "fort" in Rogervik harbor, according to my memory, continued for more than 10 years. Every year, spring storms completely demolished everything built. It was impossible to build there, it was not humanly possible to build something with those technologies. But the "great builder" ordered! And they built ... How many money and people were killed in this harbor - do not count! Ugh....


    And Russia did not have any better kings at that time.
    We must make do with what is and who is.

    Or do you think that the coming subsequent kings were better? For example, Peter's widow, or Peter's grandson, or Anna Ioannovna? And if it is not better, then shut up with your accusations of Peter I.
    1. georggy
      georggy 25 January 2021 06: 41
      -1
      Alexander1971 and the introduction of serfdom in Russia is also an achievement, a reform of Peter Romanov.
      1. Vlad world
        Vlad world 25 January 2021 08: 35
        -1
        Not an introduction, but a tightening of the law. Taking away various rights - the right to trade and others. So the right to leave, leaving the employee behind.
        Subsequently, Catherine forbade to sue the landlords.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 22 January 2021 15: 54
    -1
    So an apple from an apple tree falls not far. So are the heirs of Peter.
    All Russophobes like him very much. Since during his reign, its population has decreased (according to various estimates) by 15-25%.
    Yes, and Russophobia (contempt for the Russian people) was just introduced by him into the upper stratum of that society. Well, and then, over time, it spread even lower.
    And then they extol him.
    1. icant007
      icant007 22 January 2021 17: 41
      -5
      Quote: Vlad-world
      Yes, and Russophobia (care for the Russian people)


      He did not have Russophobia. He always singled out and promoted simple and capable Russian people.
      He despised the boyar nobility, which did not want to do anything for the Russian state.
      1. Vlad world
        Vlad world 22 January 2021 21: 03
        +2
        Oh really. A mockery of the faith of the people-drunken cathedrals - is love for the people or something. This is pure Contempt of the People. Removing the bells is a blow to the reputation of the church, to the faith of the people. Is it love or something. And don't talk about the need for guns. Bell bronze is not very suitable for cannons. And one could find bronze without bells.
        This is you talking about Menshikov - a simple aha three times, capable of doing it and at the first opportunity Poorovovat as if not in himself.
        This boyar nobility did not want to do anything for the state !! - and who participated in the construction of the State - really little green men.
        Admiring everything western down to clothing and introducing it not adapted for the local climate is the Conception of everything. Russian - Russophobia that is. The manic renaming of Russian into German and so on is your love for the Russian and automatic for the people.
        We need to believe less in the liberal and communist propaganda about Peter.
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 23 January 2021 07: 23
          -1
          The decline in the population of Russia under Peter I is sad, but necessary. There was no other way to raise Russia in those conditions. Peter I did not have sufficient competencies to govern the country more effectively. Such competencies simply had no place to come from. I had to go groping.

          And the people of any country are not only something to be favored, but also at the same time a resource to work with. And the resource in the course of work usually decreases. There were no other resources in that Russia, except for the people. This is roughly how you should spend your money when you start a business. The main thing is that according to the results of the work, the resource, that is, money or something else, could be reimbursed.

          If you do not waste the resource, then there will be nothing to hope for. The fact that in the 18th century after Peter the Great the population of Russia was growing steadily is an indicator of the success of the work of Peter I. The decline of the people of Peter the Great was compensated for.

          As for the penchant of Peter I for violent entertainment and debauchery, I think that this is usually the quality of a successful ruler. Usually quiet people did not lead their peoples to anything good. And revolutions, together with the executions of the deposed monarch, took place under the quiet monarchs. Take examples of revolutions in Russia, France, China, England (Nicholas II, Louis XVI, Charles I Stuart, the final emperors of the Qing, Qin, Tang, Song, Ming dynasties).
          And vice versa, bloodthirsty rulers, lovers of luxury, debauchery and drunkenness, expanded the boundaries of their states, and more often died in their beds (although there were examples of violent deaths) and remained in the good memory of their peoples, provided that the result of government was the success of the state.

          And in ordinary life you see normal people, not monarchs. Those who are violent and active - those with money and success in life. And those who are meek seem deeply moral, but you look at them and see that they are stupid. Not always, but usually.
          1. Vlad world
            Vlad world 23 January 2021 09: 20
            +1
            What an interesting point of view. So you and to justify the destruction of the peaceful Russian population by the Nazis during the Second World War will come. Well, of course - the same resource.
            Over there the population of Grozny has increased by one and a half times, so it is among liberals like you, a criminal tyrant and so on.
            And in the construction of the State, which has achieved much greater success. So about Grozny and lying is not forbidden. Up to writing slanderous pictures. And nothing. How dare he Increase the Russian population - atu at him atu.
            Not that darling Peter the first, reduced the Russian population by 15-25% so on his shield. After all, it is necessary to reduce the Russians in any way. And at all times. So it appears in some of the hidden Desire to reduce the Russians.
        2. Nazar
          Nazar 23 January 2021 07: 40
          0
          Vlad-mir - And after all, what is surprising - Ivan the 4th Vasilyevich is considered a cruel ruler in our country, and even one monument erected to him was greeted with a terrible scream from the "public", well, what about a monument to a tyrant who killed his own son (which is not a fact), but the fact that Peter killed dozens of times more people than Ivan the 4th does not bother anyone? He executed how many of the archers, and he himself chopped off their heads and went to complete insanity - he ordered to dig up the coffins with the remains of the Miloslavskys to put them under the scaffold so that the blood of the executed would drain into these coffins. And the fact that Peter executed his son is a fact. At the same time, in many cities of the country there are monuments to this freak, the city is named in his honor (though not in Russian, which is very significant) and the same "public" does not bother? Why such selectivity?
          1. Vlad world
            Vlad world 23 January 2021 08: 56
            -2
            Well, the lies of liberal historians led to this. Plus contempt for the ruling class's own Russian people. Under these conditions, an alcoholic, a sadist and tyrant who despises everything Russian will be an icon.
            1. Nazar
              Nazar 23 January 2021 17: 48
              -1
              Vlad-mir - Colleague, you wrote everything correctly, but Tyutchev wrote well about the "Westerners" and about their notorious "window to Europe", allegedly cut through by Peter:
              - How do not bend in front of her, gentlemen,
              - you cannot win recognition from Europe
              - in her eyes you will always
              - not servants of education, but slaves.
              I am not an admirer of Lev Nikolaevich Tolstoy's literary talents and do not at all accept his "philosophical" fabrications, but Lev Nikolaevich wrote about Peter the 1st absolutely accurately and extremely objectively:
              "A raging, drunken beast rotted from syphilis for the 1/4 century destroys people, executes, burns, buries the living in the ground, imprisons his wife, debauches, sodomy, drinks, he himself, amusing himself, chops off heads, blasphemes, travels like a cross from shanks to in the form of childbearing members and the likeness of the Gospels - to glorify Christ with a box of vodka, that is, to swear at faith, crowns his own bXXX and his lover, ruins Russia and executes his son and dies of syphilis, and not only do not remember his atrocities, but still do not cease to praise the valor of this monster, and there is no end of all kinds of monuments to him. "
              1. Vlad world
                Vlad world 23 January 2021 18: 17
                -2
                So from his reign, a trickle of contempt for the Russian people began to grow into a full-flowing river. Which swept away Tsarist Russia and then the USSR at the same time.
              2. The comment was deleted.
        3. icant007
          icant007 23 January 2021 19: 15
          -7
          Removing the bells is not a mockery of faith. We needed guns, there was nothing to cast them at that time. And in this case, it was the only correct decision.

          Quote: Vlad-world
          Are you talking about Menshikov

          By 1721, 13,9 percent of the non-nobility was in officer positions in the army and navy.

          Quote: Vlad-world
          This boyar nobility did not want to do anything for the state !! -

          It was from her that the embezzlement began in the Russian state. Let us recall the custom of feeding appointments.

          Quote: Vlad-world
          And one could find bronze without bells.

          Where? Are you aware that at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, copper was practically not mined in our country, but was purchased before the start of the war in that very Sweden?

          Quote: Vlad-world
          The manic renaming of Russian into German and so on is your love for the Russian and automatic for the people.

          There was no obsessive renaming. Much was done for the first time, for example there were no Russian analogues in the post of governor.


          Quote: Vlad-world
          We need to believe less in the liberal and communist propaganda about Peter.

          And you fell under the fashionable new trend. A new reading of the history of the Petrine era. It turns out that we had everything before Peter. And if it did not exist, then it would certainly appear that way.

          In the history of Russia there have not yet been more "powerful" state rulers than Peter I.
          1. Vlad world
            Vlad world 23 January 2021 20: 44
            -2
            Oh, how neglected. 1-Voevoda performed the same functions as the governor. 2-About the percentage of non-noble Officers. You are talking about the Germans and other non-nobles who flooded into Russia for bread jobs. Why not give the percentage of non-"nobles" among the children of the boyars there will be much higher. 3-about feeding. I learn a purely liberal knowledge of the history of the type in Russia, always steal. Forgetting about the west. Absolute ignorance of the meaning of the term. For your information - so called the Payment of the population to the leadership, strictly defined. For expedited appeal and timely pay. And then while they come to Moscow and then back - then electronic transfers and postal transfers if you did not know.
            4-Removing the bells from churches is a mockery of the faith, exactly as the Bolsheviks later removed. "Excellent" heirs were in this.
            In the 20th century, the American industry from the beginning failed to cope with the production of Aluminum. So there were the queues of Americans Handing over spoons, mugs and other products for Needs. In troubled times, Minin collected money. And we managed nothing.
            5-More powerful is Ivan the Terrible. And the state oh how Powerfully increased and the people increased and did not die out as in the time of Peter.
            1. icant007
              icant007 24 January 2021 10: 29
              -6
              Quote: Vlad-world
              You are talking about the Germans and other non-nobles who flooded into Russia for bread jobs.


              Germans or foreigners were 12,6 percent.
              It's about the army.

              M.D. Rabinovich. Social origin and property status of officers of the regular Russian army at the end of the Northern War. 1973 g.
              1. Vlad world
                Vlad world 24 January 2021 11: 42
                -1
                You at least read the title of the book correctly. !! It's about the end of the Northern War. And because of the mediocre leadership, the army suffered colossal losses and it was necessary to put in the officer posts the surviving privates not from the nobility.
                It was similar in the Second World War. This is when the junior command staff jumped one or two steps.
                And in general there is a feeling that you do not really think about what you are writing - just write. Try to think about what you write. Although for those who are duped by the liberal interpretation of history, it is (to think) hard. Met - already started to stutter when they tried to answer some questions.
                1. icant007
                  icant007 24 January 2021 12: 12
                  -7
                  Well, the end of the Northern War. What is the contradiction?

                  Quote: Vlad-world
                  And because of the mediocre leadership, the army suffered colossal losses and it was necessary to put in the officer posts the surviving privates not from the nobility.


                  And what kind of mediocre leadership are you talking about?

                  Poltava, Riga, Revel, Gangut, Grengam, Vyborg.
                  Didn't they take Stockholm for small?

                  The Northern War is the beginning of the glorious victories of the new Russian army and navy.
                  1. Vlad world
                    Vlad world 24 January 2021 14: 59
                    0
                    And before that, what happened. Where are the guns! If bells were needed to cast them.
                    1. icant007
                      icant007 25 January 2021 11: 05
                      -8
                      Do you want to drive me in 1700? We are talking here in general about the era of Peter I.
                      I repeat once again that the removal of the bells is a necessary measure, not directed against the church. Although Peter did not like the church.
                      But the absence of bells did not prevent people from going to temples.
                      Temples were not closed, but on the contrary, new ones were built.
                      1. Vlad world
                        Vlad world 25 January 2021 11: 31
                        +1
                        You still haven't answered - where did the guns go !!!
                        Sold, so where is the money zine.
                        Also pro-drunken cathedrals. This is not a fact. It didn't happen !!
                        The removal of the bells from the Bolsheviks is also a compulsory measure. Probably the same was required for the guns.
                        About the closure of churches, it was in the Bolshevik-communist times and there is no need to distort that I wrote this about the time of Peter. Then they managed to remove the bells.
                        Well, finally, the confession that Peter did not like the church.
                        And the church that expresses is the Orthodox faith. Hence, Peter did not like the Orthodox faith.
                        And no generalizations are needed. Liberal historians love generalizations in our country. to do - it's so easier to Lie.
                      2. icant007
                        icant007 25 January 2021 12: 10
                        -8
                        The guns were lost at Narva. I thought you knew)

                        The most drunken cathedrals were. I did not argue about this.
                        And where do you see my generalization?
                2. georggy
                  georggy 26 January 2021 08: 12
                  +1
                  The war with Sweden lasted 20 years. Isn't this nonsense of his "military leadership talents." Sit trlit people with the removal of the brain on all sorts of chu7i.
                  1. icant007
                    icant007 27 January 2021 07: 17
                    -7
                    Quote: george
                    The war with Sweden lasted 20 years. Isn't this nonsense of his "military leadership talents." Sit trlit people with the removal of the brain on all sorts of chu7i.


                    Back in 1709 after Poltava, Peter was looking for peace with Sweden. But Charles XII was extremely stubborn. Until he was assassinated in 1718, peace negotiations were useless.
                    It was because of his intractability that the war lasted 20 years.
                    We already had all the territorial acquisitions of the Northern War in 1710. Then the question of peace was up to Sweden.

                    Study history, dear George. And be careful with big numbers)
                    1. georggy
                      georggy 5 February 2021 05: 49
                      -1
                      Study the essence of the question.
                      And learn for yourself, you are our smartest.
                    2. icant007
                      icant007 5 February 2021 06: 43
                      -1
                      Quote: george
                      Study the essence of the question.
                      And learn for yourself, you are our smartest.


                      Well, since you know more than me, state your point of view.
                3. icant007
                  icant007 27 January 2021 07: 28
                  -7
                  Peter was looking for peace with Sweden already after Poltava in 1709, but Karl, because of his stubbornness, did not go to negotiations. The peace process got off the ground only after the death of the Swedish king in 1718 year.

                  All territorial acquisitions of the Northern War have already been made in 1710 year.

                  Study history dear George. And be careful with big numbers) you need to think about what is behind them.

                  Quote: george
                  The war with Sweden lasted 20 years. Isn't this nonsense of his "military leadership talents." Sit trlit people with the removal of the brain on all sorts of chu7i.
  • georggy
    georggy 25 January 2021 06: 43
    0
    And the boyar nobility, forgive me, who were by nationality, as he was Western European scum or what?
    1. icant007
      icant007 25 January 2021 11: 08
      -7
      I did not understand the question. The boyars were Russians. What's the question?
      Do you hold the fabulous point of view that Peter was replaced in Europe?
  • Igoresha
    Igoresha 23 January 2021 10: 51
    -5
    and 15-25%.
    sense from that population if there is no benefit from it, and it could not be without scientific and technological progress, which, to the extent of his understanding, was promoted by Peter 1
    1. Diviz
      Diviz 23 January 2021 11: 11
      -1
      Now Ukraine is for Russia as well as Russia for India, Scandinavia and Siberia in the Romanov times from 1612 to 1725.
  • icant007
    icant007 24 January 2021 09: 32
    -6
    Quote: Vlad-world
    and Russophobia (care for the Russian people)


    You are some kind of illiterate rabid provocateur, my friend.
    You don't even understand the difference between the words "charity" and "contempt")))
    1. Vlad world
      Vlad world 24 January 2021 11: 20
      0
      You don't have mistakes when writing text. If so, then happy for you.
      But it happens to me. Especially when you're in a hurry.
      And about the facts laid out by me were silent. Agree with them or how.
      And I just don't like it when Admire the decrease in the Russian population and people who like it
      1. icant007
        icant007 24 January 2021 12: 17
        -7
        Quote: Vlad-world
        And I just don't like it when Admire the decrease in the Russian population and people who like it


        What decrease are you talking about, if according to the census of 1678 there were 5,6 million, and in 1719 - 7,8 million?

        You, like a mantra, repeat this thesis about a decrease in the population under Peter I, praising Ivan the Terrible, in which the number increased due to a colossal increase in territory.

        Quote: Vlad-world
        And about the facts laid out by me were silent. Agree with them or how.


        Well, let's go again. Something I missed your "facts".
  • Magog_
    Magog_ 24 January 2021 23: 51
    0
    I agree with the harsh statements about the supposedly "great reformer" and I will cite in support a small quote from the "Foreword" of Boris Bashilov's book "ROBESPIRE ON THE THRONE":
    I. Solonevich shows a completely legitimate surprise that "All historians, citing" particulars ", enumerate egregious examples of carelessness, mismanagement, ruthlessness, great ruin and very modest successes, and as a result of the addition of endless minuses, dirt and blood, a portrait of such a" national genius "is obtained. ... I think that such a strange arithmetic operation in all world literature has never happened before. "
    I advise you to read at your leisure! And from myself I will add that, getting acquainted with the content of this book, one should not forget about the compelling evidence of the so-called SELF-DESIGNATION that appeared relatively recently. "Peter the Great". The real Peter perished in the dungeons of the Bastille after the massacre in Europe over the Russian "Grand Embassy" in 1698.
  • Diviz
    Diviz 22 January 2021 23: 38
    0
    Gandaberunda fought against the Neanderthals.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 23 January 2021 13: 08
    0
    Quote: Igoresha
    and 15-25%.
    sense from that population if there is no benefit from it, and it could not be without scientific and technological progress, which, to the extent of his understanding, was promoted by Peter 1


    Oh, how great you have, no sense (in your opinion) so Destroy the population.
    Straight one to one like the Nazis in the Second World War. They also brought technical progress.
    Yes, and in modern times there are those who want to reduce the Russians to 5 million for the maintenance of technical progress - pipes. And you are one of them, judging by your comment.
    This is how Hatred towards Russians manifests itself. And the desire to destroy (reduce) the Russians.
    1. Igoresha
      Igoresha 23 January 2021 16: 20
      -4
      This is how Hatred towards Russians manifests itself.
      and here the Russians, take the Indians, have been running around with their bare asses for a million years, and the British have slightly domesticated them and get humanity tea with an elephant, pharmaceuticals, programmers.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 23 January 2021 18: 04
        0
        About 17th century India - learn the material. India at that time created 25% of world GDP. And England did not even have one%. And they captured India easily because India was politically fragmented. China during the same period was not much more developed in development than India. But China was centralized, and its Manchu elite was relatively united (although alien to the Han people), and therefore China was not invaded.

        Very often a more backward and poorer, but a single, centralized people conquers a more numerous, wealthy enemy who is in internal discord.

        So, it was precisely England that enriched itself at the expense of India, and not vice versa.
        India has only one benefit from the British - unification. But I will assume that this association is not stable due to the strong ethnic diversity of Indians in the absence of a dominant ethnic group.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 23 January 2021 18: 07
    -1
    Quote: Igoresha
    This is how Hatred towards Russians manifests itself.
    and here the Russians, take the Indians, have been running around with their bare asses for a million years, and the British have slightly domesticated them and get humanity tea with an elephant, pharmaceuticals, programmers.


    How does it have to do with the Russians - Peter seemed to be in command in Russia. And you Welcomed the Destruction of Russians by Peter 1. It was during his reign that the population of Russia decreased.
    So you Greet the cultivators like the Hitlerites, the British.
    The police will immediately register or whatever.
    1. Igoresha
      Igoresha 23 January 2021 21: 00
      -2
      India at that time created 25%
      this is not an argument at all, India at that time was a colony and created the aforementioned product at the behest of the owners, but they themselves would not have achieved any achievements - watch any Indian film where they dance near cardboard houses with a tin roof

      So you Greet cultivators like the Nazis, the British
      You contradict yourself, Peter1 was Russian tsar and who knows how things would have turned out if not for his reforms. The Turks, who were gaining strength then, would not stand on ceremony with the Russian population (which, according to Fursenko, was the only resource of the state). And so it happened historically in Russia - great accomplishments - great sacrifices, hello to Stalin, Gorbachev, and even under Putin, the population decline

      In January-October 2019, the natural decline in the population of Russia, that is, the excess of the number of deaths over the number of births, amounted to 259,6 thousand RBC
      1. Vlad world
        Vlad world 23 January 2021 21: 36
        0
        And I did not know that Peter the Russian tsar oh oh then. It seems that in Russia (Russia) there were rules. And under him the population decreased and decreased. As for the Turks - if only if only - this is your story and facts.
        And here is Stalin. For your information, Lenin and Trotsky unleashed terror. As the creators of the state. And we can say thank you to Stalin for one destruction of the congress of the winners. And there is no need to confuse and confuse modern history and history itself.
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 24 January 2021 13: 33
          -1
          Quote: Vlad-world
          And I did not know that Peter the Russian tsar oh oh then. It seems that in Russia (Russia) there were rules. And under him the population decreased and decreased. As for the Turks - if only if only - this is your story and facts.
          And here is Stalin. For your information, Lenin and Trotsky unleashed terror. As the creators of the state. And we can say thank you to Stalin for one destruction of the congress of the winners. And there is no need to confuse and confuse modern history and history itself.


          When I was building my hotel, my money was diminishing. But when I started to exploit it, I returned the money.
          The main thing in spending a resource is that, on the one hand, live a normal life, on the other hand, be able to recoup expenses.

          And people are also resources. Check out "Capital" by K. Marx: people, that is, labor is a resource, a factor of production.
          1. Vlad world
            Vlad world 24 January 2021 14: 53
            0
            Oh, how great. Just like the liberals with the Bolsheviks. You are not only an admirer of Peter but also of Trotsky. He also has Russian people - a resource for kindling and heating.
            You have children !!! So try them as a resource, first to reduce, and then they will be restored by those who have personally decreased and then the resource will increase. Good luck with that.
            1. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 24 January 2021 16: 18
              0
              I looked at your 107 comments on this site. I see that you are just a troll here.
              1. Vlad world
                Vlad world 24 January 2021 18: 39
                -1
                Really so much !!!. I am a little interested in history and I do not agree with the lies of liberal (official) historians on some issues of our history. And expressing my disagreement with the lies - I'm already a troll. Without words.
                On my proposal to you about the "experiment" as if it did not exist. Hence the conclusion that your children are not a resource. While others fit this definition.
                Typically liberal-egoistic Nazism. Mine is above all and others are the resource.
                Farewell to this.
      2. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 24 January 2021 13: 29
        0
        In the 17th century, India was not yet a colony of England. Obviously, you don't understand history.
        And by the beginning of the 19th century, when England finally conquered India almost completely, then 25% of the world's GDP in India was gone. And you can look for this trail at the beginning of the industrial revolution in England in the early 19th century.
      3. bk0010
        bk0010 24 January 2021 14: 17
        +2
        Quote: Igoresha
        this is not an argument at all, India at that time was a colony and created the above product at the behest of the owners
        At that time, India was not yet a colony (the First Anglo-Maratha War began in 1775), but was the richest land, the wealth of the Indian subcontinent was comparable to the wealth of the rest of the world. In addition, the British destroyed industries in India, for example, they starved Indian weavers who competed with English cloth.
        1. Diviz
          Diviz 24 January 2021 14: 35
          0
          Why are you crucifying him, his opinion is supported by what is happening now in Ukraine.
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 24 January 2021 16: 19
            0
            I looked at the comments of this subject on the VO site. He has 107 comments with the general sense that the author of the article is wrong. Only there are no arguments. Hence he is just a troll. Why waste time on such.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 25 January 2021 14: 43
    0
    Quote: icant007
    The guns were lost at Narva. I thought you knew)

    The most drunken cathedrals were. I did not argue about this.
    And where do you see my generalization?


    Because of what they lost. All the guns were in Russia at that time. No. So it was possible to compensate for the loss. Or lost everything !!.
    What is your generalization !! If despite all the bad things turned out good. Is that something. For your information - Peter laid the Foundation for the destruction of the state, which happened over time. First, 17, then 91. This foundation still exists and flourishes.
    1. icant007
      icant007 26 January 2021 07: 35
      -6
      Quote: Vlad-world
      Peter laid the foundation for the destruction of the state, which happened over time


      This foundation was laid by Catherine II, who freed the nobility from service. Thus, creating a parasitic class. And the subsequent rulers did not feel the internal threats to the existence of the state. And everything that Peter began, working tirelessly, they simply merged out of their stupidity and spinelessness.

      Quote: Vlad-world
      Because of what they lost. All the guns were in Russia at that time. No. So it was possible to compensate for the loss. Or lost everything !!.


      We lost a significant part of the artillery. Due to the illiterate actions of the command, including Peter.
      There was nothing to replace. Even when going on a campaign to Narva, they collected weapons from different cities, Pskov, Novgorod.
      Do not forget that this is the period of the beginning of active construction of the fleet, which increased the need for artillery by an order of magnitude.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 26 January 2021 10: 13
    +1
    Quote: icant007
    Quote: Vlad-world
    Peter laid the foundation for the destruction of the state, which happened over time


    This foundation was laid by Catherine II, who freed the nobility from service. Thus, creating a parasitic class. And the subsequent rulers did not feel the internal threats to the existence of the state. And everything that Peter began, working tirelessly, they simply merged out of their stupidity and spinelessness.

    Quote: Vlad-world
    Because of what they lost. All the guns were in Russia at that time. No. So it was possible to compensate for the loss. Or lost everything !!.


    We lost a significant part of the artillery. Due to the illiterate actions of the command, including Peter.
    There was nothing to replace. Even when going on a campaign to Narva, they collected weapons from different cities, Pskov, Novgorod.
    Do not forget that this is the period of the beginning of active construction of the fleet, which increased the need for artillery by an order of magnitude.


    Well, finally, the recognition that the huge losses of the army were due to the mediocre leadership of the command, including Peter. And this is perhaps the genius and greatness of Peter. And in the future, if you consider victories in the period of Peter, then look at the ratio of losses, who commanded, which opponent is experienced but extremely exhausted or not.
    Catherine hastened the process of Decay by her decree. The nobility ceased to be purified with blood (as they were supposed to) and quickly quickly began to rot. The transition of the nobility to another language of communication is a sign of contempt for the Russian people. With this you will argue or how !!! Without this decree, with a probability of -2 nines after the decimal point, there would not have been 17 in 1917.
    Well, contempt for everything Russian was laid by Peter. The environment copies and assimilates the behavior of an Alpha male. At that time, it was Peter.
    Well, you are not so hopeless, think, read the sources and analyze.
    1. icant007
      icant007 26 January 2021 19: 03
      -5
      Quote: Vlad-world
      Well, finally, the recognition that the huge losses of the army were due to the mediocre leadership of the command, including Peter


      And I denied that? You are trying to get me to state the obvious, and present it as your victory.

      Or maybe you admit that you told a lie about the bells and about the population decline?

      Of the 90 thousand poods of bell bronze, only about 9 thousand were spent on the cannons. And most of it was returned to the church.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 26 January 2021 19: 25
    -1
    Quote: icant007
    Quote: Vlad-world
    Well, finally, the recognition that the huge losses of the army were due to the mediocre leadership of the command, including Peter


    And I denied that? You are trying to get me to state the obvious, and present it as your victory.

    Or maybe you admit that you told a lie about the bells and about the population decline?

    Of the 90 thousand poods of bell bronze, only about 9 thousand were spent on the cannons. And most of it was returned to the church.


    Is not it so. It is you who exalt him, considering him the greatest sovereign. And I considered him a drunkard and tyrant, who brought contempt for everything Russian to power, and I think so.
    You already read what you write.
    By the way, the deterioration in the life of the peasants under Peter led to a decrease in population growth in the subsequent time. The grenadiers under Catherine II were lower than under Peter. Take an interest.
    1. icant007
      icant007 26 January 2021 21: 57
      -6
      Quote: Vlad-world
      By the way, the deterioration in the life of the peasants under Peter led to a decrease in population growth in the subsequent time.


      That is, there was no decline in the population under Peter I? )
      And you cannot directly admit that you are wrong.

      Quote: Vlad-world
      who brought contempt for everything Russian to power, I think so.


      You can consider him to be anyone, only you have no facts to confirm this.

      And you do not need to guide me, read something.

      Your knowledge of history is at the level of pseudo-historical brochures bought in the subway.
      1. Vlad world
        Vlad world 26 January 2021 23: 24
        -1
        Well, as usual, we can not refute. We turn to personalities and insults. You are not alone. History doctors also sin with this.
        There is nothing further to talk about.