Civilian casualties in 1941-1945: fakes and facts

Many articles have been written on this topic. But we decided to return to this story again for several reasons.

First, the 76th year since the Great Victory.

Secondly, one should never forget about such atrocities committed by Germany and the fascists against the civilians and children of Russia. So that something like this never happens again.

Thirdly, attempts in the West to rewrite our history... It is especially beneficial there that the new generation knows nothing about that our Patriotic War and the Great Victory, and even more so about the true face of Nazism and fascism. This revision of history must not be allowed, of course.

That is why telling the truth about that war is so necessary and so important now.

In the first part of our review "Aesopian language of loss: the pan-European empire VS Russia" we found out that Europe of those years longed for superiority and reprisals against the barbaric Slavs in the East. That is why practically all the countries of this continent easily and resignedly accepted Hitler's ideas and united against a common enemy - Russia.

In the second part of the cycle "Losses of Russia / USSR in the war against fascism: language of numbers" we began to study various versions of the losses of the armed forces of the USSR / Russia in the war against fascism.

In this third part of our review, we will analyze the versions of the general scale of the extermination of the civilian population of our country by the Nazis. And let us remind the reader how cynically, methodically and on a planned and scheduled basis the civilians of the USSR, who were recorded in advance and even before the start of the war in special registers of "unreliable", were destroyed.

It so happened that we rarely read very important documents, especially about an already distant war. And even less often we reread them.

Chronicle of the crimes of the Nazis

It seems to me not superfluous today, when a hotbed of nationalism and fascism in Ukraine is swelling near our borders by Western enthusiasts, to recall one most important document that reveals the consequences of the same kind of actions by the collective West, but only more than 75 years ago.

"The criminal Hitlerite government and the high command of the German army even before the treacherous attack on the Soviet Union carefully developed plans for the monstrous extermination of the vanguard of the Soviet people and links to hard labor in Germany of millions of Soviet people. "

This was the unequivocal conclusion of the Extraordinary State Commission (hereinafter - the CHGK), which investigated the crimes of the fascists on Soviet / Russian soil immediately after the war (Collection of the ChGK 1946).

All the secret orders and instructions of the German military command and police cited by the ChGK speak convincingly of the system of mass extermination of Soviet people carefully developed by the Nazis in advance and ahead of time. For these monstrously criminal goals for the planned destruction of Soviet citizens, a special bureaucratic apparatus was organized.

It consisted of specially created all kinds of "operational teams", "Sonderkommando", special "filtrations", "executions", "liquidations", intended for the mass murder of Soviet prisoners of war and civilian Soviet citizens.

This commission collected and published genuine orders and specific pre-prepared instructions for organizing the killings of civilians in Russia / USSR. Real documents suggest that:

1) the German fascist invaders, already in the very first months of the war with the USSR, began mass extermination of both the civilian population of the USSR and the soldiers and commanders of the Red Army who were captured;

2) the mass extermination of the population and prisoners of war was ordered and carried out by agreement between the security police and SD and the high command of the German armed forces;

3) for the physical execution of "executions", "operational" and "special teams" (Sonderkommando) were drawn up, which had the right to independently decide on the use of executions;

4) the Germans tried to carry out the executions of prisoners of war and the civilian population in secret so that the rest of the prisoners of war and the civilian population would not know anything about it;

5) in some cases, it was ordered to specially bring Soviet prisoners of war for execution to the territory of the Soviet Union occupied by the Germans.

Published documents indicate that directives on the deliberate extermination of prisoners of war and civilian Soviet people came from Berlin, from the German government and the German High Command, from the Reich Minister of the Occupied Eastern Regions, the Chief of Security and SD and other members of the Hitlerite gang of criminals. (ChGK, pp. 181-182).

Only according to preliminary data (for 1946), registered by the Extraordinary State Commission, the Nazi occupiers about 2 million people were killed, poisoned in "gas chambers" and tortured in the occupied Soviet regions. Old people, women and children, peaceful Soviet citizens, as well as a huge number of prisoners of war - soldiers and officers of the Red Army.

For example, the Extraordinary State Commission received captured German documents found in a fireproof cabinet in a room where the Gestapo was located during the German occupation. These papers contained operational orders from the High Command of the German Army, the Reich Minister of the Occupied Eastern Regions, the Chief of the Security Police and SD and other documents, which set out a detailed and detailed procedure for "cleaning" camps for Soviet prisoners of war and places of residence of civilians from "suspicious persons."

It appears from these authentic German documents that as the only means of "cleaning" the German fascist authorities on a monstrous scale practiced the use of murders, which appear in the documents under the terms: "executions", "special regime", "liquidation", "special measures", "cleansing measures".

These documents refer to the first months of the invasion of the German invaders in the USSR, to the period July - December 1941.

The importance of the documents discovered by PMCs is characterized by the fact that all of them have a stamp: "Secret, of state importance" and "Secret, command document." (ChGK, p. 166).

In order to prevent the danger of the seizure of these documents by the Red Army, revealing the crimes of the German fascist executioners and their bloody plans for the physical destruction of the Russian population, operational order No. 14 of the chief of the German police said:

"I am especially charged with the duty that operational orders Nos. 8 and 14, as well as additional decrees related to them, in case of danger, are immediately destroyed."

In the order of the headquarters of the high command of the German army No. 11, October 7, 41, it is emphasized:

“Written (even in the form of excerpts) dissemination of this order is prohibited. The district commanders for prisoner of war affairs and the commanders of the transit camps are familiarized orally. "

(ChGK, p. 167)

German lists of unreliable Russians

We have already begun to forget that the Nazis were preparing this massacre in advance as the deliberate extermination of specific civilians, almost according to lists. And this is no exaggeration.

From the documents found, it is clear that Hitler's executioners, even before their attack on the USSR, compiled lists, search books and collected the necessary information about the leading Soviet workers who, according to their bloody plans, were subject to physical destruction. Thus, the "Special search book of the USSR", "German search book", "Lists for identifying whereabouts" and other similar "search books and lists" were prepared, which were supposed to facilitate the extermination of the advanced part of the population of the USSR / Russia for Hitler's murderers. (ChGK, p. 168)

For example, in a document called: "Appendix No. 2 to Operational Order No. 8 of the Chief of the Security Police and SD," dated "Berlin, July 17, 1941" and signed by Heydrich, who was then Himmler's deputy, states that you can't stop killing only on the payroll and only on those residents of Russia / USSR who were included in such lists (for physical destruction).

It turns out that in additional explanatory German orders, as the ChGK found out, it was specified that the prepared lists of names to be exterminated themselves were incomplete (that is, the lack of lists and search books was not hidden). Therefore, it was recommended not to restrain the "desires" of the punishers at all, and also indicated the need not suppress the initiative of the perpetrators... The punitive document says:

“There is no way to provide the teams with manuals to accomplish your tasks. "German search book", "Lists for identifying whereabouts", "USSR special search book" will be useful only in a small number of cases. The "special search book of the USSR" is therefore insufficient, since it contains only an insignificant part of Soviet Russians who should be considered dangerous. "

(ChGK, p. 168)

Along the way, it should also be reminded to the outraged Ukrainian nationalists today that they should not be under illusions about those owners who so generously fed them with buns on the Maidan. Their same Western puppeteers have already purposefully destroyed them once, of course, first using them against Russia. So it was in the Great Patriotic War in 1941, when the Bandera soldiers served the Wehrmacht. And this was done in secret.

The collection of the ChGK contains documents and genuine evidence that the bloody massacres were carried out by the Nazis and those Ukrainian nationalists whom Hitler initially used as companions in the fight against the Soviet Union. And then he dealt with them in the most vile and insidious way. Under the pretext that the Banderaites were "preparing an uprising." In the directive of the operational team C / 5 of the security police and SD No. 12/41 dated November 25, 1941 with a stamp of "secret, state importance" in relation to, for example, Ukrainian nationalists led by Bandera, it is said:

“All activists of the Bandera movement should be immediately arrested and after a thorough interrogation must be quietly eliminated under the guise of robbers... This document, after reading it, must be immediately destroyed by the command of the team "(emphasized in the original).

(ChGK, p. 173)

Planned extermination of the living

With German pedantry and punctuality, the Nazis approached the murders of the civilian population of our country. After all, there was an order from Berlin to maintain special registers of murdered Soviet citizens and regularly report on the implementation of plans for executions.

The head of the security police and SD in Appendix No. 2 to his operational order No. 8 demanded from the chiefs of the Sonderkommando:

“With regard to the applied reprisals, teams should keep lists, which should contain the following information: numbers in order, surnames and names, time and place of birth, military rank, profession, last place of residence, grounds for repression, time and place of repression ".

The order further stated that

"Such messages should, as a rule, in information order be transmitted to the 1st department of the IV Directorate of the Main Directorate of Imperial Security (IV А 1)."

In development of this directive, the operational team C 5 of the Security Police and SD clarifies:

“At the end of each month, it is necessary to submit here a report on the activities of SD teams in stationary POW camps. It is necessary to indicate the number of liquidations by nationality, in accordance with the directives set out in the instructions. "

(ChGK, p. 178)

Weekly Annihilation Reports

The ruling Hitlerite clique systematically checked the fulfillment of its directives regarding the identification of the "suspicious." She demanded strict and complete accounting. Berlin demanded reports in urgent letters: where, how much, when and how they were killed. And that's all about the peaceful citizens of Russia / USSR.

In Appendix No. 2 to Operational Order No. 8, the Chief of the Security Police and SD strictly prescribed:

“Every week the Chief of Operations Team submits a short report by telegraph or urgent letter to the Reich Security General Directorate.

This report should contain: 1) a brief description of the activities over the past week; 2) the number of persons who should be finally considered suspicious (just indicate the number) ... "

It clearly follows from these documents that all these "executions" and reprisals were nothing more than the deliberate extermination of Soviet people, who were subjected to mass executions by the German fascist executioners. (ChGK, p. 174)

Extraordinary State Commission for the Establishment and Investigation of the Atrocities of the German Fascist Invaders in 1946 for the first time led the following publicly announced figures of the Nazi's deliberate destruction of the civilian population of the Soviet Union, broken down by republics (people):

RSFSR - 706,
Ukrainian SSR - 3 256 200,
Byelorussian SSR - 1,
Lithuanian SSR - 437,
Latvian SSR - 313 800,
Estonian SSR - 61,
Moldavian SSR - 61,
Karelo-Finnish SSR - 8 inhabitants.

In Lithuania and Latvia, there were special institutions for the extermination of people - concentration camps and death camps. That is why in these two republics the commission registers such a high number of killed citizens.

The scale of innocently killed local residents was even more impressive in areas adjacent to the front line. However, it is difficult and practically unrealistic to deduce completely accurate figures for such losses.

The smallest of the permissible values ​​is the number of those who died in the Leningrad blockade. We are talking about 800 citizens. Leningrad, in general, it seems, then broke all records for deaths. Out of 000 babies born then 100 died. In other words, 75 showed a horrifying picture: the infant mortality rate in Leningrad jumped to 1942%.

Non-returners

Another important aspect. How many people (from those deported from the USSR to hard labor in Europe and other countries) chose not to return to their homeland when the war ended?

The Office of the Plenipotentiary of the USSR Council of Ministers for Repatriation (as of January 1, 1952) estimated the number of "second emigration" at 451 people.

Note. Under the second "emigration" in Soviet times, it was customary to mean hundreds of thousands of Soviet citizens who found themselves during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. abroad and subsequently did not return to the USSR.

However, the Soviet historian Viktor Nikolaevich Zemskov considered this figure to be underestimated. In its work "The birth of the" second emigration "(1944-1952)" (1991), he argued that according to Soviet archival data, the number of the "second emigration" was 620 thousand people.

Some researchers cite the following data on the number of immigrants from the USSR (people) who remained after the war abroad from those driven to hard labor during the war:

Germans, Bessarabians and Bukovinians - 170,
Ukrainians - 150,
Latvians - 109,
Estonians and Lithuanians, etc. - 230,
Russians - 32.
(Total - 691).

Why didn't these people come back?

There are many versions. Here is one of them (quote from the historian V.N. Zemskov).

The Office of the Plenipotentiary of the USSR Council of Ministers for Repatriation of the contingent of Soviet displaced persons who settled in Argentina and did not return to the Union, in 1952 described as follows:

“The overwhelming majority of the contingent of displaced Soviet citizens who settled in Argentina is a politically decayed mass, which during the war served the Hitler regime.

Some of the displaced persons joined anti-Soviet organizations operating in Argentina and has a negative impact on the rest of the displaced Soviet citizens, forcibly taken to Nazi Germany, and then fraudulently taken to the countries of South America.

A relatively small part of the displaced Soviet citizens has decayed and finds solace in drunkenness and debauchery, or is mired in a petty-bourgeois life, striving to find wealthy wives or husbands.

And, finally, a significant part of the displaced Soviet citizens are afraid of responsibility for the crimes committed before the Motherland, both during the war and after it, so they do not want to return to their Motherland under any circumstances. "

According to more recent studies, immediately after the war, more than 1 million people did not (or did not want) to return to the Union. And this means that from the previously recorded as irrecoverable losses of the inhabitants of the USSR, at least 300 thousand of those living who became a defector should be subtracted. Or, as they are now called more mildly and respectfully, emigrants.

Versions about the loss of civilians

Thus, with what numbers did the total demographic losses of Russia / USSR in the Great Patriotic War actually calculated? And how many of them were civilians? (We spoke about the irrecoverable losses of the Red Army in the previous article).

For almost two decades we were told from the high tribunes (NS Khrushchev) about the twenty million dead in the USSR taken from the ceiling. And by 1990 it turned out that this figure was underestimated. And at least up to a quarter of the real losses were hidden at that time.

The truth was revealed thanks to careful research by a specially created commission of the General Staff and the USSR State Statistics Committee. It turned out that this commission had documented that The victory over fascism cost Russia / USSR under 27 million lives. The exact figure was at that time - the death of 26,6 million inhabitants of our state at the hands of the enemy.

At the moment, this figure is the official one (26,6 million people).

Noteworthy is the fact that back in 1948, the Russian-American sociologist-emigrant Nikolai Sergeevich Timashev (Nicholas Timasheff) in his work "The Postwar Population of the Soviet Union" (1948) gave his assessment of the losses of the USSR in the war, which practically coincided with the opinion Commissions of the General Staff. Also with the data of the Commission G.F. Krivosheev's assessment of the Russian demographer-liberal Sergei Maksudov (pseudonym Alexander Petrovich Babenyshev), made by him in 1977, coincides. According to him, the losses were estimated at 24,5 million people.

Let's remind that before that (before the official conclusions of the commission of G.F.Krivosheev) the exact number of military losses of the USSR was the subject of political speculation and the figures varied in accordance with the political situation in society.
According to the commission of G.F.Krivosheev:

Let's summarize some results.

After the war, the losses of the Red Army were estimated at 7 million soldiers.

American Nikolai Timashev called the following figures for the losses of Russia / USSR:

Red Army - 12,2 million soldiers,
civilian population - 14,2 million citizens,
direct human losses - 26,4 million people,
general demographic - 37,3 million Soviet people.

President of the German Society for Documentation Helmut Arntz and Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev determined the scale of the country's losses as 20 million people.

French physician and demographer Jean-Noel Biraben in Population (1976) and Alexander Solzhenitsyn gave other significantly overestimated figures:

Red Army - 20 million soldiers,
civilian population - 22,6 million citizens,
direct human - 42,6 million people,
total demographic 62,9 million Soviet residents.

Liberal with the pseudonym Sergei Maksudov (A.P. Babenyshev from Harvard University in the USA) issued his version:

Red Army - 11,8 million soldiers,
civilian population - 12,7 million citizens,
direct human losses - 24,5 million Soviet people.

At the same time, the same S. Maksudov in his writings calculated the purely combat losses of the Red Army as 8,8 million.

Whereas the Russian demographer Leonid Leonidovich Rybakovsky in the book "Population of the USSR for 70 years" (1988) mentioned that direct human losses of the USSR amounted to almost three tens of millions of Soviet citizens (27-28 million).

It is curious that L.L. Rybakovsky in 2011 (to the 70th anniversary of the beginning of the war) also publishes a summary table of different versions (put forward from 1946 to 2004) about the total human losses by year. It contains figures that have been voiced by all kinds of politicians and specialists in the past years. And sometimes the same personalities in different periods presented to the people various versions of the truth.

For the sake of historical justice, we present this set of figures in the form of a table in full.

Source: cyberleninka.ru

Please note that this table shows only the total losses of our country in different copyright variations.

And we will continue to consider the versions of those who, among other things, presented the figures for the losses of the civilian population of Russia / USSR.

EAT. Andreev, L.E. Darsky, T.L. Kharkov in their joint work "The Population of the Soviet Union, 1922-1991" (1993) (as some authors represent them - the General Staff, the Krivosheev Commission) set out their version as follows:

Direct combat losses of the Red Army - 8,
and including prisoners of war - 11.
Civilians (including prisoners of war) - 17.
Direct human losses - 26 million.

As he is called in the professional environment "the most indefatigable professional forger", publicist of the opposition avant-garde B.V. Sokolov entered the annals of historiography as calculating the losses of the Soviet Army (military personnel) alone at 26 million soldiers and officers.

Well, what about without Great Britain?

English expert on economics and Russian defense Mark Harrison from Warwick estimated the total losses of the USSR at 23,9-25,8 million people.

Subtotals

So, if you make a kind of squeeze out of the above versions, then what will happen if you apply elementary logic?

The 7 million casualties of the Red Army, as published in 1947, were based on unfinished research and calculations. And, of course, they were preliminary in those years.

Khrushchev's opinion was not criticized in his time, but it cannot be accepted today one hundred percent, since it has not been specifically confirmed.

Solzhenitsyn's 20 million (or even 44 million) human losses are also somewhat dubious. Here, in order not to offend the hyped political writer, we will simply quote one opinion, quite fair, in our opinion, about such inflated figures:

“Without denying a certain talent of A. Solzhenitsyn as a writer, all facts and figures in his works are not confirmed by a single document. And it is impossible to understand where he got what from ”.

The strategic mouthpiece of the liberal community B. Sokolov claims that the losses of the armed forces of the USSR alone amounted to 26 million fighters. It proceeds from the fairly well-known losses of the officers of the Red Army, which amounted to 784 thousand people (for 1941-1944).

This gentleman, as usual with liberals, refers to the logic of purely Western statistics. Namely, the Wehrmacht. The point is that this researcher does not seem to make any (statistical) distinction between us and the opponents. Therefore, he proceeds from German realities, which he transfers without amendments to us.

From his point of view, since the average losses of Wehrmacht officers on the Eastern Front in the same years (1941-1944) amounted to 62 people, and using the data of Mueller-Gillebrant, the ratio of losses of the German officer corps to the rank and file was deduced as 500: 1 (25%). This means that in Russia / USSR the ratio of losses should be exactly the same.

So he gets from German logic our 26 million irrecoverable losses of the Red Army. Mathematics, nothing personal. However, some have revealed that this approach is false. Let's analyze briefly the version of the oppositionist.

Russian experts point out that in some campaigns the same Wehrmacht lost much more officers than the aforementioned 4 percent. For example, in the Polish campaign. There, the ratio of losses of officers to the total losses of the German armed forces was 12 percent.

In addition, the military reminds that in the German regiment (nominally), for example, the infantry - 3049 people, and the officer corps there are 75 people. That the ratio is not 4, but 2,5 percent. If you look at the Soviet infantry regiment, then it is 1582 people. And there are 159 officers there. The percentage is ten. And not at all "German" 4.

And finally, the last. The military especially remind that the higher the experience, the less losses from the officer corps. And they give examples. The Germans lost their officers (percentage):

in the Polish campaign - 12%,
in the French campaign - 7%,
on the Eastern Front - 4%.

It turns out that this ratio is a quantity, as they say, a variable.

As for the Red Army, according to statistics, at the beginning of the same (Great Patriotic) war, losses among officers could be as high as 24%, and by the end of the war they could have already dropped to 8-9%.

So, as always with the liberals: everything is logical. Only the logic is not the same. And the denominators are not the same.

Why, in general, analyze the version and theories of this Sokolov? So he also most often replicates his views in the opposition media.

Thus, if we discard too underestimated and very overestimated versions, then only three remain:

1948: Timashev - 12.
1977-1993: Maksudov - 11.
2001: Official (Krivosheev Commission) - 8 (with prisoners of war 700).

By the way, the British M. Harrison's losses of our army are also close to the above mentioned values.

Different researchers have used peculiar and dissimilar methods of calculus. Some of the abovementioned (Timashev and Maksudov) could not use the archives of the Ministry of Defense and Russia, according to some experts.

We believe that the actual losses of the Armed Forces of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in the Great Patriotic War are close to the figures named by these three mentioned researchers. Recall that 2,6-3,2 million Soviet prisoners of war killed by the Nazis are also included in these figures.

As a result, you can also accept the point of view of Maksudov, who proposed deducting the defectors from the losses. There were 1,3 million of them. What initially did not begin in the General Staff commission.

So, if you reduce the losses of the USSR by this amount, then the distribution of losses (in%) looks like this:

Losses of the Armed Forces (including prisoners of war) - 41%, and direct combat (without prisoners of war) - 35%.

The loss of the population of the occupied territories and the front line - 39%, and with prisoners of war - 45%.

These two categories of losses in total accounted for 80% of all.

The remaining 20% ​​of our losses included:

rear population - 8%,
GULAG - 6%,
emigration outflow - 6%.

Official results from 2020

Well, in conclusion, you need to provide the official data of Rosstat, updated for 2020, on the losses of Russia / USSR among the civilian population.

For the 75th anniversary of the Victory over fascism, a jubilee collection, which contains the following updated and verified figures on the number of civilian casualties of the USSR during the occupation.

In total, the civilian population of the USSR died during the occupation of 13 684 692 people.

Of these, 7 420 379 people were deliberately exterminated. Including 216 431 children.

Killed in forced labor in Germany 2 people.

4 people died from the harsh conditions of the occupation regime (hunger, infectious diseases, lack of medical care, etc.).

The total number of citizens of the USSR taken to Germany for hard labor reached 5 people.

In addition to those killed in forced labor in Germany, 451,1 thousand people who did not return to their homeland and became emigrants (defectors) were attributed to the total civilian casualties.

Who will answer?

And here is another quote from the conclusions of the ChGK in 1946, an excerpt from the chapter "Directives and orders of the Hitlerite government and the German military command on the extermination of Soviet prisoners of war and civilians" (p. 182 of the Collection of messages of the Extraordinary State Commission on the atrocities of the German fascist invaders):

The Emergency State Commission, on the basis of the materials published in this communication and also on the basis of documentary materials previously published by the Commission on the results of the investigation of the atrocities committed by the German fascist invaders in the Soviet regions liberated from German occupation, established that:

1) The direct organizers and leaders of the mass destruction of Soviet prisoners of war and civilian Soviet people are: the head of the prisoner of war camps of the 1st Military District of East Prussia, Major General von Hindenburg, the head of the prisoner of war camps of the "general-governorship", Lieutenant-General Herrgott, liaison officers, Criminalrat Schifferrat Crime Commissioner Rushwitz.

2) The direct executors of this monstrous extermination of Soviet people are the personnel of the Sonderkommandos, operational teams, commandants and staff of the camp commandant's offices, as well as their accomplices. All of them must suffer severe punishment for their crimes against the Soviet people.

Published in the newspaper "Izvestia" No. 60 of March 11, 1944 on the basis of the Resolution of the Extraordinary State Commission of March 10, 1944, Protocol No. 27. Page 182

Note. The acts and reports of the ChGK became one of the most important evidence of the prosecution at the Nuremberg trials against Nazi criminals.

In the next part we will talk about different studies of the scale of Wehrmacht losses in the Great Patriotic War.

To be continued ...

Comments

[DrEng527]

"In total, the civilian population of the USSR died during the occupation 13 684 692 person. "
we take an article by a professional historian (Institute of Russian History of the Russian Academy of Sciences), Ph.D. Zemskov V.N. "Human losses of the USSR in the Second World War", Bereginya, 777. Sova, 2015, No. 2 (25) pp. 187-201 and read the conclusion:
"Consequently, by adding up specific direct losses, approximately 16 million are obtained, of which 11,5 million are military, 4,5 million - civilians. And it is in this way that it is customary to calculate losses in other warring countries. "
the attempts of the author, and especially the accuracy of the loss of citizens up to 1 person, cause both bewilderment and the question - WHY from the tragedy of our people to arrange God knows what?

[Sergey79]

I fundamentally disagree. In other countries, there was no purposeful extermination of the population. Thanks to the author again. Very correctly noted about Doctor of History. B.V. Sokolov. In my opinion, the Higher Attestation Commission would raise the issue of his academic degree, and not "hammer" Medinsky ...

[DrEng527]

Quote: Sergey79

In other countries, there was no purposeful extermination of the population.

Really? even Jews in Poland?

Quote: Sergey79

The Higher Attestation Commission would raise the question of his academic degree, and not "hammer" Medinsky ...

write a motivated denunciation ...

[Sergey79]

I don’t write denunciations ... But I see moral freaks ...

[DrEng527]

Quote: Sergey79

I don't write denunciations ...

Quote: Sergey79

In my opinion, the Higher Attestation Commission would raise the issue of his academic degree

it only seems to you that way, in fact you wrote a denunciation ...

[Zakirov Damir]

Real peaceful and military losses of the USSR were:

11 811 000 - MILITARY LOSSES, including:

1 10 114 servicemen of the Red Army (200 6 885 - officially registered; 100 488 concerning which no information has been revealed, real missing persons; 000 2 - dead from recruited released prisoners of war from 000 to 1.1; 10.4.1945 114 - dead in the partisan movement; 200 2 625 died in captivity);

2. 929 "people's militia" (200 dead, 400 dead in captivity - estimated values);

3. 378, citizens who died in the partisan movement (estimated value);

4. 529 employees of civilian departments allocated to special formations to meet the needs of the army ("Civilian personnel").

6 844 400 PEACEFUL LOSSES (final data of the ChGK Commission), including:
1. 5 256 100 - Jews deliberately destroyed in the occupied territory in all forms, taken out and exterminated in concentration camps in Poland, killed by fire from both sides;
2. 658 inhabitants of local Leningrad;
3. ~ 930 who died as a result of INCREASED MORTALITY relative to the NATURAL RATE of MORTALITY in the occupied territory (about 000 more died in the unoccupied territory in the rear).

TOTAL: 18 655 000 400 PEACEFUL AND MILITARY LOSSES OF THE USSR.

18 655 400 - direct peaceful and military losses of the USSR
A PLUS
1 - deaths from increased mortality in the rear
TOTAL: 20 396 400 - the final number of citizens of the USSR who were carried away by the war, but no 26.6 million.

The 26 million includes emigration and child mortality up to 6 years of age, namely:

1 soldiers of the Red Army and ordinary citizens who died in the ranks of the enemy;
2. 451 defectors (mostly colobrants and members of their families, not extradited by the allies in violation of agreements; more than 562% are residents of Western Ukraine, Western Belarus and the Baltic States);
3. 890 remaining behind the Curzon Line after the establishment of a new border on August 300, 16, mainly the Bialystok salient;
3. 170 citizens who have acquired Romanian and German citizenship, not subject to repatriation;

4. 4 children who died of natural death before the age of 328:

2 - "Those who died in forced labor in Germany" - the first dummy number, contains the first half of the dead children;

7 420 400 "Intentionally exterminated in the occupied territory":
2 164 300 - the second dummy number, contains the second half of the dead children;
5 - Jews deliberately destroyed in the occupied territory in all forms, taken out and exterminated in concentration camps in Poland, killed by fire from both sides.

You ask who does not understand what. They won't let you publish it anyway!

[wow]

It never reaches me why ours, incl. and the authorities, they are so worried about the "blessed memory" of A. Solzhenitsin, who has fucked our country from head to toe! ???

[nnm]

Because few of them are inherently different from the character you mentioned.

[Crowe]

These are all links in the same chain - and "blessed memory"falseNitsyn, and the Alekseeva State Prize, and plywood on the Holy Day of May 9, the Mausoleum is boarded up, and the ebncenter is visited with reverence by the "powerful of this world" regularly and with flowers, and the pension reform and everything else ...

[Khibiny Plastun]

The son of Solzhenitsy is now the driver of SUEK, so trading in the Motherland is a profitable occupation. Instead of the nearest wall, a profitable chair.
That's how we live.

[paul3390]

"If a person is talented, then he is talented in everything. The situation is the same with idiots." (from)

[tihonmarine]

Quote: yo-mine

It never reaches me why ours, incl. and the authorities, they are so worried about the "blessed memory" of A. Solzhenitsin, who has fucked our country from head to toe! ???

What Solzhenitsyn is, such is the power. And "ours" are far from ours, but strangers.

[Sergey79]

A. Solzhenitsyn abandoned his subordinates in battle. Such people are considered to be traitors and dithers.

[kalibr]

Irina! Good job, well done, but ... Why is it so: "It is especially beneficial there that the new generation knows nothing about our Patriotic War and the Great Victory, and even more so about the true face of Nazism and fascism." Well, you have not read the works of foreign historians on this topic and do not need to write like this indiscriminately. Everything is there. Only as always - people in one place, and information in another. Do you think about collectivization and repression here, everyone reads the materials of the RGASPI? No! Satisfied, including articles on VO. And they ... do not always contain everything that the data of this archive, and completely open for access. And there is exactly the same. Who wants to have any information. And the man in the street does not care. It is good for him that the politician blurted out from the TV screen. But students are given good books there. Go to the website of the same publishing house Osprey and see what they write about our military history and who, and how - that's what is important. And so indiscriminately, I have not read it, but I condemn it - it is not necessary.

[kalibr]

And here it is, Irina: "Let's briefly analyze the version of the oppositionist." No need to hang labels on people whose opinion differs from yours. What is his oppositionism? That he doesn't think so as you do? This is not the case. Do you think correctly, but he does not? Well, prove it! Proved? Great, our applause! But this did not make him an oppositionist.

[Glory1974]

The remaining 20% ​​of our losses included:

rear population - 8%,
GULAG - 6%,
emigration outflow - 6%.

Here I stopped understanding the author. Is he trying to count the deaths in the war in the Gulag? What is it like? What is this sevcable bullshit?

[semenov]

And I kind of understood - these are our losses during the war from our actions. Should they be added to the rest of the losses? Question..

[mole]

Quote: Semenov

And I kind of understood - these are our losses during the war from our actions. Should they be added to the rest of the losses? Question..

In the so-called. The Gulag were found for various purposes. Is the filtration of those who have been taken prisoner among them? Shooting for treason? Desertion? Purely criminal offenses?
Many questions. This part of the article also interested me, but unfortunately the author only stated it.
Probably the "losses" of the GULAG should be compared to the pre-war period and then "counted"?

[A1845]

And it's all about civilians of Russia/USSR.
...
by republics (people):
RSFSR - 706,
Ukrainian SSR - 3 256 200,
The Byelorussian SSR - 1 547 000,
...

it is still not clear (and there were a lot of questions on this topic to the last article) why it is indicated everywhere Russia/USSR, Russians, and Ukrainians and Belarusians are taken into account.
what is the author's secret message?

[DrVintorez]

powerful. Thank you. Everlasting memory.

[tatra]

As I wrote this morning, the enemies of the communists are always the same, and how Solzhenitsyn many decades ago threw his mythical 44 million Soviet citizens killed in the Great Patriotic War into "victims of Bolshevism", so the enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR threw all Soviet citizens killed by the Nazis into " victims of Stalin ".

[Essex62]

What do you want. If you lose, pay.

[Constanty]

In the first part of our review "Aesop's Language of Loss: the Common European Empire VS Russia", we found out that Europe of those years longed for superiority and reprisals against the barbaric Slavs in the East. That is why practically all the countries of this continent easily and resignedly accepted Hitler's ideas and united against a common enemy - Russia.

The author uses this false and harmful thesis over and over again in the next article.
Then there was no mythical united Europe. Most of the European countries were then conquered and occupied by Germany and could not decide anything. Yes, there were detachments cooperating with the Germans - whole detachments up to the level of a division or a legion, there were also detachments from Slavic countries - Slovakia, for example, or even Poland - although there are at least two police battalions that fought not with the USSR, but with Bandera ... the territory of modern Ukraine.

Many citizens of the conquered countries were mobilized into the German army - not because they wanted it, but because they had no choice (as, for example, the Poles in the territories that became part of the USSR in 1939 were drafted into the Red Army - as my grandmother's brothers, for example - they died in 1941 :-()

We can talk about the German invasion of the USSR and the cooperation of Hungary, Italy, Romania, Finland, Slovakia, even Spain, we can talk about parts of the Flemings, Latvians, Ukrainians, Poles, as well as Russians, Tatars, Turkmens, etc.
However, it is difficult to truthfully claim that this was a kind of mythical plan of Europe to fight the East, since there was no such sovereign Europe at that time.

And the victory of the USSR over Germany (and their allies would not exist) is not denied by sane people - after all, it was the Red Army that captured Berlin (and, I emphasize, the 1st Polish Division of the 1st Polish Army took part in the capture of Berlin)

That's why practically all countries of this continent easily and meekly accepted Hitler's ideas and united against the common enemy - Russia.

And this is an outright lie and even rudeness.


Yes - I know there will be disadvantages - but I am not going to offend the peoples of the USSR, but I simply do not agree with such a false generalization. Because it's not true

[paul3390]

the 1st Polish Division of the 1st Polish Army took part in the capture of Berlin

Yes, we all know during those times - "The Polish army took Berlin, the Russian army helped" ..

[Constanty]

I understand that this is sarcasm, but the participation of Polish soldiers in the storming of Berlin cannot be denied. Even if their share was small - only one division and 12 thousand soldiers. Many have died - Glory to their memory!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Constanty

Because it's not true

What's not true? That the Waffen SS division did not take on conscription, but only exclusively volunteers? Can you list a complete list of these divisions? Is it also not true that the entire European economy worked for Germany? What else should Europe have done so that you could agree with the author that all (!!!) Europe was at war against the USSR?

[Constanty]

It is not true

all countries this continent easily and resignedly accepted Hitler's ideas and united against a common enemy

Which countries am I asking? Czechoslovakia, Austria, Poland, Netherlands, Estonia, maybe Latvia? Then these countries are NOT !!!

that the entire European economy worked for Germany is also not true?

It's true - but did you do it because he easily and uncomplainingly accepted Hitler's ideas ...?
This is nonsense - she did it because she was under the control and occupation of Germany - not of her own free will and not in theory !!!

the Waffen SS division did not take on conscription, but only exclusively volunteers

This is also true - they were volunteers - from Wallonia, Ukraine, Latvia ... - but not the same as writing that this or that country did it voluntarily.

What can we say about the Russians themselves - both from Khivi, and from Politsai, and from the ROA - they outnumbered all the others in Europe combined. Can you list a complete list of these military units?
But no reasonable person claims that these Russians joined the German army because they believed in Hitler's idea and wanted to fight against the East.
They often had no choice and simply wanted to survive - a tragic choice - for them and other nations conquered by the Germans.

[Machito]

Pavlov's house in Stalingrad held out against Nazi Germany longer than France.
The author tells the truth: Hitler's European Union attacked Russia with the aim of the complete extermination of the Russian people. Not only the Germans are to blame for the genocide committed in the USSR, but all other European peoples with a few exceptions: Serbs, Greeks, Albanians, and perhaps that's all, the list ends there. All the rest were Hitler's accomplices, even the British, who had signed the Munich agreement with the aggressor.

[Constanty]

Hitler's European Union attacked Russia with the aim of the total extermination of the Russian people.

I continue to read here about the evil plans of the "West" to rewrite history.
And what you write is just falsification and rewriting of history.
Europe did not attack the Soviet Union, but the Germans (not Nazis - Germany) with the help of their allies - Italy, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Finland, with the help of volunteer detachments from other countries - but this does not allow to correctly write that Europe attacked the USSR is hypocrisy and propaganda slogan. Deceptive and harmful - I understand that this is beneficial for the politics of today's Russia - but it is rewriting history.
This also does not explain the MASSIVE participation of the peoples of the USSR in the struggle against the USSR itself - thin and few German troops could not control the occupied territory of the USSR without the cooperation of a significant part of the Russians and other peoples that make up the USSR.

Does this mean that not only the mythical empire of Europe, the Eurokolkhoz, or, perhaps, Russia participated in the attack on the East?

Everything you write is nonsense for the political interests of today's Russia, which has nothing to do with historical truth. This is rewriting history.

And perhaps the most painful thing for you is that you cannot indicate the Polish SS units or, in general, the Polish units in the Wehrmacht, and the Russians are easy to identify:


-1st Police Auxiliary Battalion
- 1st Russian National Army,
- 1st Russian SS Brigade "Druzhina",
- 1st Russian group at the 1C department of the headquarters of the XXXVIII army corps,
- 1st Russian Foreign Training Battalion, \
- 1st shock anti-tank brigade "Russia",
- Eastern reserve regiment "Center",
- 1. Ostflieger Staffel,
- 4th Eastern Reserve Battalion,
- 16th Jaeger Volunteer Regiment,
- 6th Eastern Reserve Battalion,
- 23rd Russian-Ukrainian SD battalion,
- Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS (russische Nr. 1)
- 30. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (russische Nr. 2)
- 134th Eastern Battalion,
- 207th Eastern Equestrian Division,
- 229th Eastern Battalion,
- 263th Eastern Battalion,
- 268th Eastern Battalion,
- 308th Eastern Battalion,
- 318th eastern sapper battalion,
- 339th Eastern Battalion,
- 406th Eastern Battalion,
- 412th Eastern Battalion,
- 427th Eastern Battalion,
- 439th Eastern Battalion,
- 441th Eastern Battalion,
- 446th Eastern Battalion,
- 454th eastern sapper battalion,
- Оst-Volk-Bataillon 553 - Genesenden-Bataillon "Rußland",
- 556th Eastern Battalion,
- Ost-Bataillon 561,
- 567th reconnaissance squadron of the eastern troops,
- Grenadier Brigade 599,
- 601st eastern battalion "Berezina",
- 605th eastern battalion "Volga",
- 616th Eastern Battalion,
- 618th Eastern Battalion,
- 619th Eastern Battalion,
- 620th Eastern Battalion,
- Ost-Artillerie-Abteilung 621,
- 628 eastern battalion,
- 630 eastern battalion,
- Ost-Bataillon 635,
- 642th Eastern Battalion,
- 654 Eastern Battalion,
- 663 eastern battalion,
- 665 Eastern Battalion,
- 666th Eastern Battalion,
- East Jaeger 667th battalion "Shelon",
- Russisches Bataillon 669,
- 700th Eastern Special Purpose Regiment,
- 709th Eastern Special Purpose Regiment,
- Ost-Artillerie-Abteilung 752, - 752 Eastern artillery unit,
- Infanterie-Division "Von Stumpfeld"
- Einsatz Leningrad,
- Eingreifgruppe Tietjen,
- Cavalry unit "Trubchevsk",
- Captain Heidrich's Air Force,
- Schmidt Group,
- Martynovsky's fighter squad,
- yagdkommando-38,
- Women's company of propagandists,
- Luftgroup,
- Freiwillige Regiment "Desna",
- Freiwillige SS-Sonder-Regiment "Varjag"
- Detachment of Captain Feofanov,
- Punitive detachment of Gregory F. Junkerite,
- Military propaganda unit "Volga",
- Military team of hunters of the East,
- Russian National People's Army,
- Russian Liberation People's Army,
- Russian Guard Corps,
- Russian People's Militia,
- Russian detachment of the 9th army,
- Russian auxiliary detachment of the Legion "Wallonia",
- SS-Polizei-Bataillon-Siegling,
- Security guard Bobruisk,
- People's Guard.

And this is not counting the "polizayuv".

It turns out that more Russians and people of the USSR fought against the USSR than all the Europeans put together (not counting the Germans).

So maybe it's better to get back to the point and stop raving about the war between Europe and the USSR and again write about the war between Germany (with the allies) and the USSR (not Nazis - Germany !!!)

[Machito]

There were many traitors in Russia for various reasons who fought on the side of Hitler. Those of them who did not flee to the West received severe punishment for their crimes.
Poland contributed to the outbreak of World War II: instead of providing military assistance to Czechoslovakia against German aggression, Poland participated in the partition of Czechoslovakia, taking the Cieszyn region for itself. The Poles actively betrayed Jews to the SSE and took their property for themselves, worked for the Reich economy.
Yes, we remember the heroes of Anders and the Polish Army who heroically fought against the Nazis, we remember Marshal Rokossovsky, who commanded the victorious operations in the Main Direction, but you cannot erase words from the song: the Poles who fought against Hitler were an order of magnitude less than those who collaborated with Nazi Germany. Well, if one heroic soldier of the Polish Army is counted as a hundred Poles who worked for Hitler, then we can assume that Poland fought against the Nazis. I don’t want to touch on the topic of concentration camps in Poland.
Pay attention to what is happening in Poland now: some Poles take care of the monuments of the Red Army soldiers (these are the children of the heroes of the Polish Army), others desecrate and demolish these monuments (these are the children of Hitler's collaborators).
And at the household level, Poles and Russians are friends. A friend lives in Kaliningrad, constantly travels to Poland to shop.

[Constanty]

In 1939, as a result of the military campaign, the Polish Army lost 66 thousand killed, 134 thousand wounded, 690 thousand soldiers (German and Soviet) were captured.
The number of Polish armed forces in the West is 200.
The 1st and 2nd Polish armies in the east numbered about 185 soldiers (at the end of the war, together with the formation of the 000rd army, the forces in the east numbered about 3 soldiers).

I don’t know where the idea about the ratio of nonsense 1: 100, about which you write, came from.

The Poles actively betrayed Jews to the SSE and took their property for themselves, worked for the economy of the Reich.

The word Poles can be exchanged for Russians in the occupied territories, and this will also be true.

Polish soldiers who fought alongside the soldiers of the Red Army against the Germans are for me the same heroes as those who fought at Monte Cassino or Falaise. No difference.
Those Poles who deny their efforts and sacrifices, as well as those who do not respect the graves and monuments of the fallen Soviet soldiers, do not deserve respect.

[Machito]

You have convinced me. I don't want to argue with you.
But in the partition of Czechoslovakia, Poland participated and made its contribution to the outbreak of the Second World War.
And you are great for not forgetting the memory of the Polish heroes and our joint struggle against evil.
But how does this affect the rest of the Europeans? For example Chekhov: regularly producing weapons for Nazi Germany until April 5, 1945. According to one version: the Czechs revolted in Prague when they learned that Hitler would not pay them for weapons.

[Constanty]

Indeed, in 1938 Poland behaved like a cemetery hyena - the question of Zaolzie, which the Czechs occupied, violating agreements in the most difficult period for Poland, when the Bolsheviks reached the Vistula in 1920, had to be resolved immediately after the war of 1921-22.

As for the support of the Third Reich - the occupied states and peoples took part in it voluntarily or not - and, looking back, I don't know if the Czechs were smarter than the Poles. The first ones produced weapons, tanks, marders, hitzers, howitzers and all that, but they did not lose people. The Poles did not surrender without a fight, we had a vast partisan army, but millions of Polish citizens died. The Czechs did it better, and Poland could have been better if in 1939 she agreed to the German conditions and went with the Germans to the USSR - even a lost war - perhaps fewer ruins and fewer destroyed cities - for example, Czechoslovakia., Slovakia !!!

However, as a Pole and a Slav, I am proud that we fought not against the Slavic brothers, but against the Germans. Despite our difficult history

[Machito]

If Poland agreed to Hitler's terms and acted as an ally of Germany against the USSR, then now she would not have Silesia, Pomerania, or part of East Prussia, Przemysl, or Bialystok. Its territory would be two times less, and the value in Europe is five times less.
History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. It was what it was.

[Constanty]

I agree, but on the other hand, such a Czechoslovakia did not lose territories, despite industrial cooperation with the Third Reich.

[Machito]

Czechoslovakia lost Transcarpathia, now this region with Ukrainian, Hungarian, Slovak and Ruthenian populations belongs to Ukraine.
The main loss of Czechoslovakia is that the Russians remember who made weapons for Hitler. This is for the Chekhovs the Second World War - a long-standing little nuisance, and in Russia in almost every family someone died in that war. That is why May 9 is one of the biggest holidays in Russia.

[Moore]

Quote: Constanty

and Poland could have been better if in 1939 she agreed to the German conditions and went with the Germans to the USSR -

Why didn't you? Didn't you join the anti-Comintern pact out of great love for Russia (USSR)? This is unlikely. In the USSR, they did not flatter themselves about this:
in December 1938, the report of the intelligence department of the main headquarters of the Polish Army said: “The dismemberment of Russia is at the heart of Polish policy in the East ... Therefore, our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in the partition, Poland should not remain passive in this wonderful historical moment. The task is to prepare well in advance physically and spiritually ... The main goal is to weaken and defeat Russia. "
Yes, new allies just threw you as a gypsy farmer in the market. For some reason, your noble gentlemen decided that they would go to war for you, if you do not agree to the Danzig corridor and the Polish zholnezhs will soon mint a step along the Berlin paving stones. It did not pass ...

[Constanty]

Please provide a link to the original of this report to confirm its accuracy

[Tamer]

Personally, I did not find the original, but I didn’t bother looking for it either. I found a mention of this document here http://militera.lib.ru/research/surovov/08.html

Source Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich is indicated. Studia i materialy. Aphid. Warszawa, 1968. S. 262, 287

[Constanty]

Thank you . I will soon take this book and have a look.
However, pay attention to the year of publication.
I will say this: books on relations with the USSR, published before 1989, are far from scientific accuracy.
Scientists wrote what the party demanded
There was an order to spit on Pilsudchikov and the Second Polish Republic, and the pluto

[Moore]

Quote: Constanty

I will say this: books on relations with the USSR, published before 1989, are far from scientific accuracy.

Yes Yes. After 89, we also had chilling revelations of tireless fighters against totalitarianism. Branded nasty commies bless you. We still can't spit it out.
And relations with the USSR, they were in plain sight even without books. Do not remind, how much territory of Germany the evil Stalin gave Poland?

[Constanty]

"Gave it"?

Before the war, the territory of Poland was 387 thousand square kilometers. After Stalin's "gifts" 312 thousand.
This means that we were taken away 75 thousand square kilometers of territory more than we were "given"

And relations with the USSR, they were even without books in plain sight

In 1932, Poland signed a non-aggression pact with the USSR - Poland did not violate its provisions, the USSR violated them by entering the territory of Poland with armed forces and agreeing with a third party on territorial changes in relation to Poland. That was the relationship.

[Moore]

We consider Cieszyn Silesia, Western Ukraine, Western Belarus and Vilna region? The grown-up uncles returned the impudent toddler who just played in "od morza do morza" into an adequate state. What he was not supposed to be taken away. They gave me a couple of other toys in return. They could just slap on the pope.
And as for the relationship. You can maintain contractual relations with the forces / governments that control your country. What was there to talk about with those who were given slippers from Warsaw? There are subjects of international relations, and there are objects. Poland then belonged to the second. Played ...

[Constanty]

We are talking about the territory that the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, the RSFSR recognized the territory of Poland by the signing of the Peace of Riga in 1921, and which the USSR confirmed in the 1932 non-aggression pact.

There is no doubt about this - from the point of view of international law, these were the territories of the Second Polish Republic, and by no means the USSR.

[Moore]

In what treaty dated 32 did the USSR recognize the occupation of the Vilnius region, which the Poles seized in 38?
Will you deny that it was only thanks to the USSR that the Lithuanians did not fall under the full Polish occupation then? Yes, then the USSR turned a blind eye to yet another Polish impudence, realizing that it would not last long.
And it would be funny if the USSR hadn’t announced to the presumptuous Poles that further advance into Lithuania would entail the intervention of the Red Army in this big top - what would the Lithuanians now say about the ugly-ugly Pact MR?

[Constanty]

This is simply not true!
Vilnius with the so-called lands "Central Lithuania" became part of Poland not in 1938, as you write, but in 1922. Vilnius itself became the capital of the Polish province.
In 1938, Poland forced Kaunas Lithuania to establish diplomatic relations, but no territorial changes !!!

Stalin "presented" Vilnius to Lithuania on October 26, 1939, just so that all Lithuania in July 1940 fell under the full Soviet occupation

[Moore]

Quote: Constanty

Vilnius with the so-called lands "Central Lithuania" became part of Poland not in 1938, as you write, but in 1922. Vilnius itself became the capital of the Polish province.
In 1938, Poland forced Kaunas Lithuania to establish diplomatic relations, but without territorial changes !!!

That is how she took it and entered, by itself, and was not captured by Zheligovsky, whom Pilsudski hypocritically declared a rebel before the Entente? Until the 38th, Central Lithuania was not part of Poland, which declared only a protectorate over this territory, not recognized by Lithuania. Well, in the 38th they were already seized for real. They would have grabbed more, but Bloody Terrran was able to explain that you are trying to swallow a piece that is not the size of a ryah.
Let's not make a poor lamb out of your country, ok?

[zenion]

Irina did not write about Nazi accomplices. They didn't include their murders in the report. When the Germans entered Lviv, there were no longer any Jews left. Literally in one day.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: zenion

When the Germans entered Lviv, there were no longer any Jews left. Literally in one day.

Well, that OUN members "Nahigal" and "Roland" have tried, we all know, although some will pretend not to know. But where did the Lviv "ghetto" come from, 100 Jews, of whom about 000 remained at the time of liberation.
Eternal memory to the tortured Soviet people in Lviv, at the hands of the Nazis and OUN.

[zenion]

This is what is left around Lviv. There is such a city in Kosovo. It is notable for the fact that at the entrance to it from the side of the town of Kuta, there is a huge rock. They gathered the Jews up above and threw them down from that cliff, and the people gathered to watch applauded, so they needed. When they killed in this way everything possible near the population. And they began to look somewhere else for entertainment, one of the Kosovars said - advice to return. And then the people stopped gathering, and the Banderas were not interested without an audience. And the Germans drove into Lviv with the help of Banders all from the towns around Lviv. There were Jewish streets in these towns. Take a look at Lviv and see how many small towns there are, this was the Pale of Settlement even under the Russian Empire and it remained so Poles.

[haron]

Quote: zenion

Take a look at Lviv and see how many small towns there are, this was the Pale of Settlement even under the Russian Empire and it remained so Poles.

Zinovy. This is where they teach that Lviv was a city of the Russian Empire ?? I don’t even ask about the Pale of Settlement there.
Kosovo is certainly a noble town, but Jews were respected there, because half of Kosovo were Jews. None of the locals would throw them off the rocks for fun. Well, and the fact that someone was seriously frightened of a whisper in the crowd "the advice will return" ..... well, it's funny just ... or was Lviv in RI?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: haron

This is where they teach that Lviv was a city of the Russian Empire ??

In Israel, of course.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: zenion

this was the Pale of Settlement even under the Russian Empire, and so it remained Poles.

Austrian Empire - my friend "You confused dad ...."

[svp67]

First, the 76th year since the Great Victory.

Yes, it would be high time to remember that the 80th anniversary of the BEGINNING of the Second World War is approaching

publicly figures of the deliberate destruction of the civilian population of the Soviet Union by the Nazis, broken down by republic (people):
RSFSR - 706, ....
.... the number of those who died in the Leningrad blockade. We are talking about 800 citizens.

Something I did not understand the calculation methods, but that those tortured in the Blockade are not "intentionally destroyed"?

"12.10.1941
The operational department of the Supreme Command of the Ground Forces passes to the group of forces the order of the Supreme Command of the Wehrmacht:

The Fuhrer again decided not to accept the surrender of Leningrad, even if it was offered by the enemy. The moral rationale for this is clear to the whole world ...
27.10.41.
[...]
2) The question of Leningrad and especially of the local civilian population is to a large extent occupied by the high command. The Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces proposed to lay minefields in the space in front of his own line, so that it would not come to the direct struggle of the troops against the civilian population. If the Red troops in the area of ​​Leningrad and Kronstadt lay down their arms and are taken prisoner, then the commander-in-chief sees no more reason to continue the blockade of the city. Troops must be redeployed to their permanent locations. And in this case, most of the population will die, but at least not before our eyes.

[Machito]

Are you an android? P2D2? You have a very memorable nickname.

[Andrey VOV]

Whom to repent to ???? 20 thousand tanks are all over the whole country, from Brest to Vladivostok ... enough to carry heresy

[Khibiny Plastun]

On the mother's side, my great-grandfather went to the front together with eight (8) brothers. not one returned from the war. My great-grandfather had eight children, three girls and five boys, they came to the village of Hans at 41, the house was occupied - great-grandmother with the children kicked out. We settled in a bush-barn for hay, of course they did not allow fire, five children died, three survived, including my grandmother. And how many such families were, their type was not killed, "themselves" died, and where to count such victims?
And about the nit-Sokolov, in 2005, in a dispute about losses with Army General Gareev, he shut himself up in a rag and did not mind, at first he really tried to rinse it out, but quickly shut up when Gareev asked him what archival documents he used for his conclusions.
And such evil spirits shit in the brains and are not afraid of anything, they used to do logging, but now it is quite legal to pay the enemy.

[dgonni]

To understand the real military areas of the union, it is enough to read Stalin's speech in honor of the victory!
In short, it was whitewashed with steel and the career army had ceased to exist by September 41!
Yes! 3.5 million at 41 is also his estimate!

[Diviz]

Either we are returning to the origins, or the Kali Yuga will continue to revolve on a false history with gandaberund.

[Vladimir]

Dear author, all the statistics of the losses of the civilian population of the USSR consisted of almost half of the dead servicemen ascribed to them by the eyewitchers. It seemed that after the destruction in 1953 in the military registration and enlistment offices of privates and sergeants, this blasphemous transfer of millions of heroes to the number of victims of the war would go unnoticed.
However, the records of communists and Komsomol members have been completely preserved in the archives. And he brings these falsifications to the surface. The total loss of both categories is known - 9 or 269% of those and others put under arms. In total, as we know, 542 56,9 34 people were drafted. Multiply 476 by 700. With the indiscriminate nature of German bullets, mines and shells, 34 476 700 irrecoverable military losses are obtained. All these statistics were published in the USSR: in the "Encyclopedia of the Great Patriotic War 0,569-19", M. Soviet Encyclopedia 617, in "History of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union 242-1941", M. Voenizdat, 1945-1985, in " Strategic essay of the Great Patriotic War 1941-1945 ", M. Voenizdat, 1961. The rest of almost 1965 million of the total 1941 million - this is the loss of civilians on both sides of the front.
The mortality rate of the ostarbeiters driven to work in Germany is clearly overestimated. According to Doctor of Historical Sciences Viktor Zemskov, the data of the Extraordinary State Commission of 1946, which determined the number of civilians killed and tortured by the Nazis at 6,8 million, are doubled. He also refers to fables as more than 2 million victims among the "Ostarbeiters" - Soviet citizens hijacked to work in Germany. He considers the figure of 200 thousand acceptable. Indeed, the Germans can (and should) be accused of many things, except mismanagement. See for yourself, almost 1,8 million of the stolen immediately joined the ranks of the Red Army, as soon as it came to Germany. And they could well have held weapons in their hands. Others were sent home on foot through the whole of Poland, and they got there.
And yet, when the victims of the Holocaust are excluded from the count, civilian losses are, alas, higher in the Soviet (!) Rear than in the German one. See the research of the demographer-priest Nikolai Savchenko in "Demoscope Weekly" No. 559 - 560 June 17 - 30, 2013).