Military Review

Shamsutdinov, who shot his colleagues, faces 25 years in prison

182
Shamsutdinov, who shot his colleagues, faces 25 years in prison

Shamsutdinov, who shot his colleagues, faces 25 years in prison, this is the term requested by the prosecution. The press service of the court reports.


At the end of December last year, the jury found Shamsutdinov guilty of murder, but deserving of leniency. At present, the stage of debates has begun in the court, the prosecution requested a punishment for Shamutdinov in the form of imprisonment for 25 years, and not life, as previously reported.

The court began its debate. Prosecutors are asking for 25 years in prison. Now the defense side comes out

- reported in court.

Earlier, the defense managed to prove that the real cause of the tragedy was the systematic bullying by senior conscripts, contract soldiers and unit officers. Shamsutdinov himself repented of his deed.

Recall that on October 25, 2019, a private conscript Ramil Shamsutdinov opened fire on his colleagues, killing eight people and wounding two.

It was established that Shamsutdinov shot his colleagues from the Ak-74M machine gun, which he received on the territory of the training complex for the duty shift. Having received ammunition in the amount of 4 magazines of 30 live rounds each, Shamsutdinov loaded the machine gun and opened fire at the servicemen, aiming at the head, chest and back. It is clarified that having used up the first store, he attached the second and continued firing, considering that some of the servicemen might remain alive.

The case is pending at the 2nd Eastern District Military Court in Chita.
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 19 January 2021 08: 57
    +5
    It’s a strange thing ... Cruel, incomprehensibly cruel. Moreover, they were recognized as sane ... Then 25 years are still not enough ...
    1. KAV
      KAV 19 January 2021 08: 58
      +9
      I always wondered if they really didn't think that in the end they would be caught and convicted anyway, or shot during detention? Or was that passionate? Although, unlikely. He would hardly use the second store in a state of passion.
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 19 January 2021 09: 01
        +19
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        Moreover, they were recognized as sane ...

        "having used up the first magazine, he attached the second and continued firing, considering that some of the servicemen might survive."
        Finished off, that is, what an affect here. The verdict is well-deserved.
        1. Yurahip
          Yurahip 19 January 2021 11: 18
          -5
          Now, if he put everyone on the floor, and shot them assholes, that would be a classic thoughtful revenge, and so he fired at everything that moves, both guilty and innocent ... What kind of calculation, passion, panic he has ... ...
          1. Serpet
            Serpet 19 January 2021 15: 00
            +15
            Quote: Jurachip
            What kind of calculation, passion, panic he has.

            No, just the calculation. I wanted to pass my own hero. And he hoped that ethnic enmity would add condescension to his person.
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 19 January 2021 14: 41
          +4
          Quote: Crowe
          Well-earned verdict

          Totally agree with you!
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 19 January 2021 19: 22
            0
            There is no verdict yet.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 19 January 2021 19: 28
              0
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              There is no verdict yet.

              With the alleged verdict ...
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 19 January 2021 19: 30
                0
                You agree with the prosecutor, not with the verdict and not with the alleged verdict.
                1. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 19 January 2021 19: 33
                  0
                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  You agree with the prosecutor,

                  So be it...
      2. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 19 January 2021 09: 04
        +5
        Quote: KAV
        Or was that passionate? Although, unlikely. The second store in a state of passion is unlikely he would use

        It seems that such a psychotype. Vindictive, and also clocked himself. He conceived revenge, carefully planned everything, got a weapon, and began to shoot ... A psychologist might have identified an anomaly, but what kind of psychologist is there.
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 19 January 2021 09: 48
          +5
          He conceived revenge, planned everything carefully, received a weapon, and began to shoot ...
          This is exactly what it is. When I served, we had a case in a neighboring company. Brought young to the handle. He did not invent or cook anything. The point of the gun was when getting the weapon. He was already with cartridges and a machine gun. And this is the state of passion - instead of fastening the store and putting everyone there. They told him something wrong, so he fastened a bayonet-knife and poked with this stupid squalor, hit the kid in the shoulder blade. Didn't hit, but flattened it right. They dragged him to the medical unit, they said that he was accidentally using a shovel at work ... So it passed so quietly, no one was punished. And then he was clearly preparing, waiting, thinking up how ...
        2. 210ox
          210ox 19 January 2021 13: 02
          +3
          He is not only vindictive, but also with great conceit, egoism. This type put his I above the team, and he was preparing for the army, he was going to go further and enter the VU. But he had no idea of ​​ORDER and SUBORDINATION. And I didn't want to. Hence the attitude towards him in the military collective.
      3. Roman070280
        Roman070280 19 January 2021 10: 02
        +8
        I always wondered if they really didn't think that they would eventually be caught anyway


        Yes, this is not about being caught .. there was no time to think ..
        It's just when all sorts of dodgers start to mock one person with a crowd .. and it lasts not 5 minutes, but weeks and months ..
        I would also shoot .. At first, of course, I would have warned .. but this hardly reaches ..

        Shl .. take any fight for consideration .. two beat one .. he fights back .. A bottle gets under the arm .. Someone will be shy and will not use it ?? Or a knife falls off the table.

        I, of course, don't know how it all happened .. but if it really happened regularly .. Didn't those who mocked them think that they would eventually be caught anyway .. and condemned ..
        1. Berber
          Berber 19 January 2021 10: 40
          +7
          Absolutely correct. The commanders had to occupy the personnel with combat training. Yes, so that there is no time for bad thoughts.
          1. Revival
            Revival 20 January 2021 12: 33
            +1
            She was like an officer and played a role in bullying
        2. Alex Justice
          Alex Justice 19 January 2021 10: 55
          +7
          Why are they not imprisoned those who mock and the officers who cover up the bullying? Bullying should be punished in the bud.
      4. sniperino
        sniperino 19 January 2021 10: 27
        +4
        Quote: KAV
        The second store in the heat of passion is unlikely he would use.
        Is not a fact. Depending on the strength of the nervous system and the intensity of the experience, the affect can last up to several minutes.
      5. Squelcher
        Squelcher 19 January 2021 10: 41
        +3
        I have always wondered, where do non-humans such as an officer and his colleagues come from who are driven to this?
      6. Baloo
        Baloo 19 January 2021 11: 44
        +8
        Quote: KAV
        I always wondered if they really didn't think that in the end they would be caught and convicted anyway, or shot during detention? Or was that passionate? Although, unlikely. He would hardly use the second store in a state of passion.

        I am also a Tatar, and I would have done the same in this situation, I would have shot all the shops. The guilt of the officers and command of the unit is obvious. Now they are trying to translate the arrow. What, the special officers did not know about the situation in the unit? First of all, to bring them to justice, as well as the commander of the unit. It is not for this that mothers are sent to serve their sons to be mocked at. Shamstdinogv did the right thing, he took his revenge. I do not blame.
        1. Vasya Zyuzkin
          Vasya Zyuzkin 19 January 2021 19: 08
          +2
          The key thing is I am also a Tatar. And if the Slav was Tatars? Inciting hatred! How dare he!
          You are a Tatar and you should know that your fellow tribesman probably got up for any reason in a pose and portrayed the inviolable for which he grabbed. And since stupid and stubborn, the lessons are not good!
          And then he decided to portray the hero. Lifetime is not enough!
          If Cho constantly communicate with the Tatars and I know the percentage of stoned people. Especially among the puppies. That's how you bring them up. Worthy, alas, the further the less.
          1. Baloo
            Baloo 19 January 2021 19: 36
            0
            Quote: VASYA ZYUZKIN
            Key I am also a Tatar

            The guy restored justice, I don't blame him. I did the right thing. It is a pity for his parents, they dreamed of not such a fate. And for some reason it's not a pity for the parents of the scum
          2. Revival
            Revival 20 January 2021 12: 39
            +1
            On your dignity to endure bullying meekly !?
            1. Vasya Zyuzkin
              Vasya Zyuzkin 20 January 2021 14: 01
              +1
              And on your way to beat the crowd in bursts? And then babble about awareness? And apologize? And begging for indulgence casting a shadow over the wattle fence. After all, the dead will not object or refute.
              If such a worthy well let him proudly accept life.
        2. Revival
          Revival 20 January 2021 12: 38
          +3
          I read more about the case.
          I do not judge.
          No one has the right to constantly scoff at a person, and even with the position of saying, "where do you go from here, what we want with you, then we will do it, it will be our way."
          Here is "gone."
          The position of many is surprising, they say they only mocked and beat him, but he is vindictive.
          Human dignity and honor are blamed at the root, they say, must endure, the bird is not great.
          Shame on this position
        3. bistrov.
          bistrov. 20 January 2021 13: 10
          +1
          Quote: Balu
          The guilt of the officers and command of the unit is obvious.

          First of all, the fault of this Shamsutdinov himself and his, as I assume, overly concerned about the national, the former environment, that is. the environment where he was brought up: parents, friends, associates and so on, who brought up in him this anger and the far-fetched superiority of his "I" to his comrades in the service.
          I also served military service, everything happened, I know from experience that a lot depends on the person himself, his confident and firm position, friendly behavior, ability to live in a team, then not only will no one oppress you, mock you, but on the contrary, they will start looking communication with you, and on occasion they will help and advise if you are not successful.
          Of course, the command is guilty, and if the Charter, the daily routine is fully implemented, there is control over the personnel, then there can be no crimes and incidents by definition, and their attempts will be suppressed in the bud, followed by a thorough investigation and conclusions. I think the superior commanders will make the right decision regarding the command of the unit and subunit.
          Well, the fault of Shamsutdinov himself is that he himself did not live according to the Charter, where certain measures are provided for all occasions, but decided on a terrible CRIME, for which we now have to answer, I think that 25 years in prison is a well-deserved punishment for the renegade.
          1. Baloo
            Baloo 20 January 2021 14: 24
            0
            Quote: bistrov.
            overly nationally preoccupied, former environment,

            The guilt of the officers and special officers is obvious. Is this one episode? This systematic mockery with the connivance of the commanders led to a tragedy. And where did you get the idea about the nationally preoccupied environment? In Kazan, in front of the Kremlin, we have a monument to a simple Tatar, whom they tried to condemn in Soviet times for raising cattle on waste and selling them. and with the money he bought for the orphanages what the orphans lacked. And so on until his death. I remember this bullying in the newspapers, although I was a schoolboy. There are many Heroes of the Soviet Union among the Tatars, including illegal scouts. You would apologize for the "excessively nationally preoccupied former environment". the guy went to the army deliberately in order to continue his studies in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I do not blame, in that particular situation, I would not have tolerated bullying either from the side of the old servicemen or from the commanders. did he perform poorly on the duties of the service, were there any complaints? I do not consider him a man's act worthy of respect a terrible crime. It's a pity fate is broken.
            1. bistrov.
              bistrov. 20 January 2021 15: 02
              -2
              Quote: Balu
              There are many Heroes of the Soviet Union among the Tatars, including illegal scouts

              There is no need to boast of past merits, to defend your country is everyone's duty.
              Quote: Balu
              the guy went to the army deliberately

              He only turned out to be weak in character, fell into hysterics, which is unworthy of a real man, the weapon is intended for shooting at enemies, and not at his comrades.
              And even more so in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, where it is not necessary to shoot at criminals, but to identify them, arrest them, and the degree of guilt should be determined by the court, as is done in a civilized, legal society. Or are you against the laws? Think about what you are calling for? Even primitive society already had its own laws and for any murder of a fellow tribesman there was a death penalty. And then this scumbag jokingly shot as many as 8 people. Among them, for sure, there were completely innocent people ..
              ".. fate is broken .." ... but he did not have any fate, with such a character, sooner or later he would certainly have gotten into an accident and still sat down ...
              And you, just a "stupid person", since simple truths do not reach you.
      7. Fedorovich
        Fedorovich 19 January 2021 19: 56
        -2
        In principle, he does not think this, since he is not capable of this. I got used to the fact that the "papamusar" will smear it off, so he does what he felt like ...
      8. keeper03
        keeper03 20 January 2021 10: 33
        +2
        And I always wondered if these critters who scoff at the recruits think they can get away with it!?! request fool soldier
    2. apro
      apro 19 January 2021 09: 10
      -17%
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It's a strange thing ...

      And what's so strange about it? Ordinary Russian life .. what is promoted in society ... then we do. How organized life in a team. So the results are.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 19 January 2021 11: 37
        +12
        Quote: apro
        And what's so strange about it? Ordinary Russian life .. what is promoted in society ... then we do. How organized life in a team. So the results are.

        For comparison, we take one of the many US bases - "Ford Hood" and ...
        - 2009 - Major Malik Hasan, a military psychiatrist, opened fire on military personnel in the medical center. 13 killed, 30 wounded.
        -April 2014 - military unit Ivan Lopez opened fire on his colleagues. Killed-3, wounded 16.
        - August 2019, military unit Gregory Morales was shot in the head and written off as a deserter. The body was found outside the base. There were several days left until the end of the contract, and there was no point in deserting Morales.
        - August 2020 Private Vanessa Gillen disappeared from the base. A dismembered body was found outside the base. The killer turned out to be a colleague Aaron Robinson, who shot himself during the arrest.
        If we take Israel, then there are also far from being botanists. In August 2012, 11 military units from the "Kfir" brigade were brought to trial for beating a soldier from the "Nakhshon" battalion, but from a fresh one - July 2019. The command of the Tsakhal Air Force put on trial 10 military units and officers for systematic mockery of the military unit. at the Air Force College in Haifa.
        Oh yes, this is completely different ..
        1. apro
          apro 19 January 2021 11: 41
          -4
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          Oh yes, this is completely different ..

          Yes, another ... the command is to fight these phenomena. Is engaged in svomi units ... and does not count the corpses.
        2. A_Lex
          A_Lex 20 January 2021 02: 06
          +1
          Oh yes, this is completely different ..


          These are those from whom they massively take an example to follow for 35 years already. And if you count from the majors and even earlier.
        3. Baloo
          Baloo 20 January 2021 14: 26
          0
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          The command of the Tsakhal Air Force put on trial 10 military units and officers for systematic mockery of the military unit. at the Air Force College in Haifa.
          Oh yes, this is completely different ..

          Thank you, I have calmed my passions. Or maybe they all have to give Madame rubber after the oath?
      2. sniperino
        sniperino 19 January 2021 13: 01
        +1
        Quote: apro
        ordinary Russian life
        Your systematic emphasis on the Russianness of all the negativity in our life pushes us to an experimental formulation of the control question: whose Crimea?
        1. apro
          apro 19 January 2021 13: 03
          -4
          Quote: sniperino
          t to the experimental formulation of the control question: whose Crimea?

          SOVIET
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 19 January 2021 13: 10
            +1
            Quote: apro
            SOVIET
            The answer is evasive, but it confirms the validity of the question, because Crimea was both Russian and Khan's for much longer than Soviet and Ukrainian.
            1. apro
              apro 19 January 2021 13: 23
              0
              The normal answer. for the Soviet Russia Ukraine Belarus is one people. one state. but the nationalists capitalists are opposed to this equally.
              1. sniperino
                sniperino 19 January 2021 13: 29
                +1
                It's still strange:
                Quote: apro
                ordinary Russian life
                , and Crimea -
                Quote: apro
                SOVIET
                Do not find?
                1. apro
                  apro 19 January 2021 14: 20
                  -3
                  Quote: sniperino
                  Do not find?

                  I do not find.
                  1. sniperino
                    sniperino 19 January 2021 14: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: apro
                    I do not find
                    Hint (leading questions). Was there hazing in the army during Soviet times? Have the young fellow soldiers on guard been shot? If both answers are "yes", then why is this Russian life, and the Crimea is Soviet, that is, not related to Russian life (= to reality)? No, don't even argue, the question is good! And the answer is "Soviet" - cunning, you can always get out, that in Soviet times it was given to Ukraine (if the SBU has questions, is it a separatist).
    3. Berber
      Berber 19 January 2021 10: 37
      +9
      First of all, his commanders should be judged. This is their flaw.
    4. Cananecat
      Cananecat 19 January 2021 11: 03
      +2
      There is nothing strange there. Read the excerpts from the case file, they are freely available.
    5. YOUR
      YOUR 20 January 2021 12: 31
      -1
      It is not clear not only this, it is not clear why so much attention is paid to this killer. There are no other topics.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. steelmaker
    steelmaker 19 January 2021 08: 59
    +2
    25 years old, this means that when he is released he will be able to continue his family line! And he killed three innocent, so to the heap. Why honest, innocent people should not have a continuation of the race, and murderers should be fruitful and multiply? What the hell did they get on the jury? What power, such is justice !!
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 19 January 2021 09: 12
      +8
      Quote: steel maker
      25 years old, this means that when he is released he will be able to continue his family line! And he killed three innocent, so to the heap. Why honest, innocent people should not have a continuation of the race, and murderers should be fruitful and multiply? What the hell did they get on the jury? What power, such is justice !!

      And how did it happen that those killed promised to "fuck" him in the evening, we don't have bullying, we serve one year?
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 19 January 2021 09: 24
        +3
        I would have promised to shoot them in the evening, and not really shot ... I do not think that someone was really going to fuck someone there .. only one fact - he killed 8 people and should be punished ..
        1. Roman070280
          Roman070280 19 January 2021 10: 07
          +5
          I do not thinkthat someone was really going to fuck someone there.

          It's good not to think from the couch ..
          If I was in his place, I would have thought differently ..
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 19 January 2021 10: 11
            +3
            Is there a fact of execution? Is there any wear? Ideas and promises are mostly unpunished, and murder is punishable .. I served in the army and there were enough various "non-statutory" situations, but for some reason no one fucked anyone or shot anyone ..
            1. Roman070280
              Roman070280 19 January 2021 10: 43
              0
              Is there a fact of execution? Is there any wear?
              Well, someone might and would wait before being raped first .. then, of course, it was easier to make excuses in court ..

              Ideas and promises are mostly unpunished,

              Well, let those who scoffed now console themselves with this ..



              for some reason no one fucked or shot anyone ..
              in YouTube there are also reverse videos .. where they even fuck themselves ..

              Anything can happen .. For some reason, Navalny did not die .. but for some reason Nemtsov very much even died ..
              So to say, "this does not happen, because I have not seen" .. I will answer that there is no such thing as just being shot ..
            2. Alex Justice
              Alex Justice 19 January 2021 10: 58
              +5
              I served in the army and there were enough various "harassment" situations, but for some reason no one fucked anyone or shot anyone ..

              Nobody fucked or shot my relative. He was simply beaten to death by his grandfathers. Nobody was punished.
            3. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 19 January 2021 11: 43
              +5
              Quote: 2 level advisor
              Is there a fact of execution? Is there any wear? Ideas and promises are mostly unpunished, and murder is punishable .. I served in the army and there were enough various "non-statutory" situations, but for some reason no one fucked anyone or shot anyone ..

              Are you a policeman by any chance? They usually say the same - when they kill you then come, and the threats are nothing but the crime, the crime has not been committed. So yesterday they gave 8 years to a man from Ufa who killed a pedophile, who lured 2 boys into an apartment and asked them to take off their panties, one ran away and told. The version of the investigation - well, he did not rape them, so he did not commit a crime and did not pose a danger. These are direct words - did not pose a danger
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 19 January 2021 19: 23
                0
                Correctly given. Now, if those same "boys" killed him - there are options.
              2. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 20 January 2021 10: 13
                +1
                And if in response to every threat - to kill a person just in case - is this the norm? And as if Alexander, just here they killed "you can come" - the crime is committed ..
                but about a pedophile, what you say is the concept of an unfinished crime, as well as lecherous actions, you just indicated them, i.e. his crimes have a place to be .. but judging by them the dead will not work, so the situation is reversed ..
                about the fact that they are being tried for the murder of a man - the laws of the Russian Federation do not give the right to lynch a lynching, without investigation, therefore they imprison him, we return to the fact that if everyone starts killing at his own discretion, this is lawlessness ..
                1. Revival
                  Revival 20 January 2021 16: 06
                  +1
                  "And if in response to every threat - to kill a person just in case - is this the norm?"

                  A real threat to life.
                  Who gave the right to threaten?
                  There would be much fewer threats in the world.
                  We would have thought more before threatening.
            4. Naive
              Naive 20 January 2021 09: 21
              0
              The time was a little different, now to plant some kind of fitish on a bottle of many animals. There are no videos, stories in bulk. And shoot? they were shooting ... Less, of course, but then they brought up People and not consumers.
            5. Revival
              Revival 20 January 2021 16: 03
              +1
              If you were in his place, would you wait to check the promises?
              And then ...?
              So?
              Considering that it was not the first time they saw each other on the street, but repeatedly confirmed their other threats with deeds
        2. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 19 January 2021 11: 38
          +6
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          I would have promised to shoot them in the evening, and not really shot ... I do not think that someone was really going to fuck someone there .. only one fact - he killed 8 people and should be punished ..

          If he promised, the machine gun would be taken away from him, and then fucked, and you don't need to be seven inches in the forehead to understand this. And here the point is not in satisfying your sexual needs, but in humiliating a person
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 19 January 2021 11: 50
            -1
            So it is generally only from his words that it is known that they were going to rape him, but is it true? and if he was told something like "I'll fuck after the guard until you learn the charter" then you won't argue that this is a figurative expression ..
            humiliation .. but if from this point of view, the whole army - one continuous humiliation - is forced to do what you do not want, they speak obscenities at you, etc. and including soldiers and officers ... and not only in the Russian Federation .. would go to alternative service, if the usual is a burden ..
            1. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 19 January 2021 11: 54
              +3
              Quote: 2 level advisor
              So it is generally only from his words that it is known that they were going to rape him, but is it true? and if he was told something like "I'll fuck after the guard until you learn the charter" then you won't argue that this is a figurative expression ..
              humiliation .. but if from this point of view, the whole army - one continuous humiliation - is forced to do what you do not want, they speak obscenities at you, etc. and including soldiers and officers ... and not only in the Russian Federation .. would go to alternative service, if the usual is a burden ..

              The investigation proved systematic humiliation on the part of the killed and there are witnesses of this and therefore it was worth taking their threats literally. That is why 25, not a snowy owl
      2. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 19 January 2021 09: 26
        +2
        You know, I have seen a lot of service. And I heard it too. But I don’t remember at least one case that such threats were carried out. He can go to self-propelled. Go to the duty officer. A bunch of options. But he chose to kill.
        1. Avior
          Avior 19 January 2021 12: 27
          +2
          Where to self-propelled? Into the taiga? Anyway, they would have caught and returned. The advice to go to the duty officer on the part could only be given by the obfiuer, a meaningless action in advance with the postponement of problems at most until the end of the duty, if the duty officer did not want to.
          Would vvoipntvy shoot would not.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 19 January 2021 18: 44
            -4
            Come on?) Straight into the taiga?) Advice to go to the duty officer is common. This solves the question.
            1. Avior
              Avior 19 January 2021 18: 48
              +2
              There, the part is located so that there is nowhere else. And to the person on duty, it does not solve anything. If it were so easy, there would be no hazing.
              This is an extra headache for the officer on duty, he doesn't need to deal with other people's fighters.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 22 January 2021 10: 11
                -2
                Do not carry this nonsense. You are probably not very familiar with outfits. This is the mentality of people. Knocking is kind of bad. And to blame people is certainly better
                1. Avior
                  Avior 22 January 2021 10: 36
                  +1
                  Complete nonsense. The fact of mass hazing in the unit was confirmed at such a level that the unit was disbanded. And none of the young people guessed to take advantage of such a brilliant advice - to escape from the guard outside the territory of the unit to the officer on duty in the unit.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 22 January 2021 13: 11
                    0
                    Let me explain it to you on my fingers. Hazing from the word grandfather. With a year of service, it is physically impossible this time. Killing people instead of resorting to command is insanity. I am a career officer and have seen everything. I am the officer's son and grandson and great-grandson. Do you think I know a lot more than you do how everything works there? He could just turn. Up to the prosecutor. But he decided to kill !!!
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 22 January 2021 13: 25
                      +1
                      I served, and I know perfectly well how it really works and I understand why there was a tough mass hazing in the unit, if there were supposedly opportunities not to stop it. You did not see this from the inside, but only observed from the outside, so your advice is far from real life.
          2. Alexander Seklitsky
            Alexander Seklitsky 19 January 2021 19: 28
            0
            Quote: Avior
            Where to self-propelled? Into the taiga? Anyway, they would have caught and returned.

            Well, really, the taiga is straight
            Gorny (until 1994 Chita-46) is an urban-type settlement in the Trans-Baikal Territory of Russia, a closed administrative-territorial unit (ZATO), forms the ZATO urban district of the Gorny settlement [2].

            Population - 10 238 [1] people. (2020). The general plan of the ZATO urban district of the Gorny settlement, approved by the Decision of the Duma of the ZATO urban district of the Gorny settlement dated April 23.04.2015, 30, No. 14000, provides for an increase in the population to 3 people [XNUMX].
            And the military prosecutor's office is not straight, yeah .. And SOCHNIKOV are never returned to the same unit.
            1. Avior
              Avior 19 January 2021 20: 43
              +1
              Closed area. Everything is in sight. As soon as he escaped from the guard, they would have put everyone on the ears, we called it Ring250 and returned it to its place. And it was not on the outskirts, he simply would not have made it.
              I don't need to tell you how in theory, I know how it happens in practice.
              1. Alexander Seklitsky
                Alexander Seklitsky 20 January 2021 03: 31
                +1
                So I, too, not from the field of theory, I argue. I served in those parts in 2005-07. In our school, one such "disbeliever" blew right from the nightstand of the day room into the night, until
                to the military prosecutor's office. And in the morning, the tovarischi came from there and they interrogated us for a very long time and tediously. And all because, too, this individual, did not want to clean up his part of the territory of the barracks. And until the order in the battalion is restored, the duty officer will not let go of the free shift outfit. either to clean up for him, or .... in general, they explained to him a little that he was oh ... in short, wrong. Then, while serving in the unit, there were runners too. Even managed to get to Omsk. In addition, you can always complain to the psychologist that You don’t want to serve and such were written off according to the "tag" We, being spirits, were built on the parade ground and asked who wants to go home, may fail. Everyone who left, he ended up at home in a couple of months, but with a white ticket from a durka
                1. Avior
                  Avior 20 January 2021 04: 55
                  +1
                  Not an army, but a sanatorium. Why are the military registration and enlistment offices chasing conscripts, gave out white tickets to those who wish - and all the problems
                  But not everyone is used to running around prosecutors even in civilian life.
                  I am not sitting from anyone explaining why he shot his colleagues
                  Some hints and guesses
                  The case is already over, it's time for direct reasons to cry
                  In Chita (Trans-Baikal Territory), the announcement of the verdict in the case of conscript soldier Ramil Shamsutdinov, who shot eight colleagues, has begun. On Monday, December 28, the correspondent of "Lenta.ru" reports.
                  The jury unanimously found Shamsutdinov guilty of the murder of eight people and the attempted murder of two more. The jury also found that the private deserved leniency.

                  hi
                  1. Alexander Seklitsky
                    Alexander Seklitsky 20 January 2021 06: 00
                    0
                    Quote: Avior
                    Not an army, but a sanatorium

                    It is a common practice. The army is not a zone, no one will keep it by force, but they warn us right away that they will go to civilian life with a shameful article, through a psychiatric examination, and then live with this all my life with all the consequences.
                    Quote: Avior
                    Why are the military registration and enlistment offices chasing conscripts, gave out white tickets to those who wish - and all the problems

                    The military registration and enlistment offices are fulfilling their plan, and the main thing for them is to carry it out, although nowadays no one is really pulling it.
                    Quote: Avior
                    But not everyone is used to running around prosecutors even in civilian life.

                    Of course ... it's easier to shoot people in packs yeah belay
                    Quote: Avior
                    why did he shoot his colleagues
                    Some hints and guesses
                    The case is already over, it's time for direct reasons to cry

                    Yes, no, because there are no direct reasons, so there is nothing to name. All his babbling is a pitiful excuse to justify oneself. I myself have gone through something else. In the army, "personalities" are not needed, cogs and gears of which this mechanism consists are needed. The same Shamsutdinov did not want to teach the charter, did not want to clean the guardhouse. What does it mean? This means that the commander received a stick from the breeder, the one who asked for instructions before going on the guard. That is why he forced him, instead of personal rest, to learn the regulations of the guard service. I, for a similar jamb, taught the duties of an orderly in a lying position. Further ... he did not want to remove his assigned part of the territory. And this means that someone else had to do it for him. Why did they have to kiss him for that?
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 20 January 2021 06: 16
                      0
                      sorry, but the trial is already over, and your guesses are far from reality.
                      Read the trial report. Shamsutdinov is the only young man who answered unmistakably by knowing the charter.
                      The nachkar, who does not allow his own guard to sleep for three days, raises big questions. Him to the post.
                      1. Alexander Seklitsky
                        Alexander Seklitsky 20 January 2021 06: 28
                        +2
                        Since when have they been on guard for three days?
                2. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 22 January 2021 13: 13
                  0
                  Yes, you can get through) I dumped through the park on a cursory)
      3. steelmaker
        steelmaker 19 January 2021 09: 29
        +2
        Well, that would kill those who promised! And the innocent for what? Another juror found!
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 19 January 2021 09: 47
          +1
          Quote: steel maker
          Well, that would kill those who promised!

          If they start killing for all the promises, the population will be halved.
          1. Roman070280
            Roman070280 19 January 2021 10: 08
            -7
            If they start killing for all the promises, the population will be halved.

            And there will be only white and fluffy ones ..))
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 19 January 2021 16: 02
              +4
              Quote: Roman070280
              If they start killing for all the promises, the population will be halved.

              And there will be only white and fluffy ones ..))

              There will remain those who sell weapons to the population and those who guard them.
              And if on the topic, then this is generally stupid polemics and useless attempts to try to find gray, between white and black .. A man killed 8 colleagues and wounded two. Not only those three who promised to lower it, but also 7 unaccompanied trailer. To their mothers, wives and children for what sins did they come? And if there were more colleagues around that day, this nonsense would have filled up more. He did it consciously, being in his right mind and in memory. If he reasoned sensibly, he could find a way out of the situation, but he went to kill.
              It is clear that choosing options between "life" and "quarter" he can hang noodles about rape and kidney removal from recruits, to buy moonshine for senior citizens, and therefore this version, let's say so-so, is more conditional. Another question is that youngsters go to the army absolutely crazy, who don't want to do shit at all either according to the charter or by concepts, and any pressure causes attacks of aggression in them. An ordinary psychopath and darling. A quarter is for him only to warm up, and in fairness life imprisonment will be just right, so that he would not produce the same freaks.
              1. Vasya Zyuzkin
                Vasya Zyuzkin 19 January 2021 19: 16
                +1
                Here is a detailed and specific answer. And this one now, to save his own skin, will weave together with lawyers. And now he has overcome the threshold for him even as killers, even maniacs ...
          2. Varyag71
            Varyag71 19 January 2021 10: 19
            0
            Somewhere in Texas, try to threaten someone. Therefore, there is the lowest percentage of crimes.
          3. sniperino
            sniperino 19 January 2021 14: 56
            +3
            Quote: Piramidon
            If for all the promises they begin to kill, then the population will be halved
            I believe that in Chechnya they would have been killed for such a promise; that is why they very rarely promise this and rarely kill, and the population there is growing faster than the global average.
          4. Naive
            Naive 20 January 2021 09: 33
            -2
            And it would be nice and then divorced creatures shielding themselves above others. And not to diminish as soon as the process goes on, most will rethink their attitude to life as someone else's and their own.
          5. Revival
            Revival 20 January 2021 13: 04
            0
            But they will think that they can grind
        2. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 19 January 2021 11: 47
          -2
          Quote: steel maker
          Well, that would kill those who promised! And the innocent for what? Another juror found!

          And the innocent were caught in a queue, he didn't catch them, but gave a queue to the crowd
          1. Vasya Zyuzkin
            Vasya Zyuzkin 20 January 2021 07: 12
            +1
            And accidentally finished off the second store! Ha!
            1. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 20 January 2021 09: 43
              -5
              Quote: Vasya Zyuzkin
              And accidentally finished off the second store! Ha!

              And he did not finish off the random ones, they were so lucky that they no longer needed
              1. Vasya Zyuzkin
                Vasya Zyuzkin 20 January 2021 14: 05
                +1
                You would be so lucky to hear later
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 19 January 2021 09: 42
      +1
      25 years old, this means that when he is released he will be able to continue his family line!

      I am afraid that they will give him less, and after serving half of the term, he will be able to apply for early release on parole, that is, he may be released in 10-11 years.
      1. kit88
        kit88 19 January 2021 11: 52
        +11
        He must serve at least 2/3 of the term in order to apply for parole. His article is especially difficult.
      2. Olkhovsky
        Olkhovsky 19 January 2021 13: 17
        +2
        he will be able to apply for early release on parole, that is, he can be released in 10-11 years.

        And so it will be. This will be fair. I feel sorry for him and those who died by accident, and those whom he put for their bullying not a gram. Serves the villains right.
        1. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 19 January 2021 14: 22
          -1
          He approached and finished it off not by accident, a ready-made insane killer scumbag will come out and again continue what he started.
    3. Roman070280
      Roman070280 19 January 2021 10: 06
      -4
      will be able to continue its kind! And he killed three not guilty


      There is a big question, whose kind is worse ..
      The one who forcibly killed three goofs .. or those goofs who have in their blood to scoff at people and bring them to such a thing ..
      It is unlikely that they were kind, sincere innocent guys ..
  4. andreykolesov123
    andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 09: 09
    -19%
    you're all lying, there is no hazing in the army.
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 19 January 2021 09: 15
      +9
      Are you delusional? Even on such news you, liberals, sneer at how disgusting you are.
      1. andreykolesov123
        andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 09: 44
        -5
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        Are you delusional? Even on such news you, liberals, sneer at how disgusting you are.

        where do they come from if officers have been taught for 5 years to treat soldiers like their own children.
        1. Varyag71
          Varyag71 19 January 2021 10: 20
          -6
          Do not make me laugh. Now the officers are not the same.
          1. andreykolesov123
            andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 10: 25
            -2
            Quote: Varyag71
            Do not make me laugh. Now the officers are not the same.

            And when were the TE officers? In the 70s and 80s? There was no hazing then, was there?
            1. Blacksmith 55
              Blacksmith 55 19 January 2021 10: 45
              -1
              I recommend reading: One hundred days before the order, author Polyakov.
              There the "rookie" did not kill others, he committed suicide. I think this is not an option either, you have to be able to stand up for yourself, but not everyone is capable of this. At the same time, going to complain to officers, you immediately lose respect among colleagues.
              Hazing was probably always, but where the officers and sergeants knew when to stop, it never came to such actions.
              1. Avior
                Avior 19 January 2021 12: 31
                0
                I served at this time, the book made a lot of noise to us. When the chief of the political department of the district's air force was asked about her at a meeting of the Komsomol activists, he bluntly said that if the author knew about our realities, he would write much harsher.
                1. andreykolesov123
                  andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 12: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Avior
                  the author knew about our realities, would have written much harsher.

                  The author knew very well about all the realities, he just couldn't write harder
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 19 January 2021 12: 56
                    +3
                    How can I say. Maybe he knew, maybe he didn't. In the army, the authorities spread rot with terrible force — slander against the army. We had a case just in the garrison in Limansky in the BAO with terrible hazing, the order was read out around the district, as our foreman explained, a man in years, swearing as a way of conveying thoughts, as the military has done :), and he was embarrassed, said grandfathers lived with the young, as with women forcibly, and the command covered everything, the young were not allowed to complain, it surfaced only when one of the young people managed to throw a letter to the Minister of Defense in a civil mailbox - they sent him from the post office to the district headquarters, then they called back the grandfathers, and They planted them, and the officers from the battalion too, everyone understood what the chief of the political department was talking about, the order was read out before the formation, everyone knew.
                    And this is the Soviet era, the second half of the 80s, not in the taiga, somewhere, but quite a stone's throw from Odessa.
                    1. andreykolesov123
                      andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 13: 49
                      0
                      Quote: Avior
                      How can I say. Maybe he knew, maybe he didn't. In the army, the authorities spread rot with terrible force — slander against the army. We had a case just in the garrison in Limansky in the BAO with terrible hazing, the order was read out around the district, as our foreman explained, a man in years, swearing as a way of conveying thoughts, as the military has done :), and he was embarrassed, said grandfathers lived with the young, as with women forcibly, and the command covered everything, the young were not allowed to complain, it surfaced only when one of the young people managed to throw a letter to the Minister of Defense in a civil mailbox - they sent him from the post office to the district headquarters, then they called back the grandfathers, and They planted them, and the officers from the battalion too, everyone understood what the chief of the political department was talking about, the order was read out before the formation, everyone knew.
                      And this is the Soviet era, the second half of the 80s, not in the taiga, somewhere, but quite a stone's throw from Odessa.

                      There is no independent public body overseeing the army.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 19 January 2021 13: 51
                        +4
                        not necessarily public.
                        There should be a service that is not subordinate to the army authorities, and from which they will be asked only for such facts in the army.
                        then they will move.
            2. Viktor Sergeev
              Viktor Sergeev 19 January 2021 11: 00
              0
              Hazing was, is and will be, the army rests on it, young people are not soldiers, but civilians in uniform must be taught. As soon as the real sergeants were destroyed in the early 60s, hazing appeared, which is beneficial to the officers in the first place. But here it is necessary to distinguish between bullying and lawlessness.
              1. sniperino
                sniperino 19 January 2021 15: 06
                +1
                Quote: Victor Sergeev
                As soon as the real sergeants were destroyed in the early 60s, hazing appeared, which is beneficial to the officers in the first place
                What is this benefit and why were the real sergeants destroyed?
                1. Viktor Sergeev
                  Viktor Sergeev 19 January 2021 20: 26
                  0
                  They removed the conscripts and made conscripts, here's the savings, then just switched to 2 years of service.
                  1. sniperino
                    sniperino 19 January 2021 20: 39
                    0
                    Quote: Victor Sergeev
                    Removed over-conscripts
                    You are probably right: the conscript completed his military service from scratch (he was a "ethereal spirit"), he liked it, the platoon commander sees that there is real benefit from him, and the ensign is not a sergeant, he is further from the soldiers.
                    1. Viktor Sergeev
                      Viktor Sergeev 20 January 2021 14: 03
                      +1
                      The funny thing is that there were no spirits then. Prapora is generally business executives. Hazing is everywhere and will always be.
                      1. sniperino
                        sniperino 20 January 2021 14: 43
                        0
                        Quote: Victor Sergeev
                        Prapora is generally business executives.
                        Not necessarily, there are instructors, paramedics.
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 19 January 2021 09: 28
      +5
      There is. As in any other army in the world. And any paramilitary structure in the world. The system should not be discussed on the basis of non-regulations, but on how it fights against it.
      1. Asad
        Asad 19 January 2021 09: 46
        -3
        Viktor Sergeev, did you serve in the army?
    3. Glory1974
      Glory1974 19 January 2021 09: 46
      +4
      you're all lying, there is no hazing in the army.

      in any men's collectives there is a "non-regulation" relationship. That is, in simple terms, based on informal leadership.
      1. andreykolesov123
        andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 09: 50
        -5
        Quote: glory1974
        in any men's collectives there is a "non-regulation" relationship. That is, in simple terms, based on informal leadership.

        and why then came up with the charter? let's live in the army by definition. there is an officer whom Shamsudinov shot, forcing him to teach all day long without letting him sleep. Was that how they taught him at school?
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 19 January 2021 10: 14
          +1
          and why then came up with the charter? let's live in the army by definition

          I said that you can't say "no hazing." Because they are even in school companies, and this is a fact. But I did not say that there is no need to fight this.
          The officer, whom Shamsudinov shot, forced him to teach all day long without letting him sleep. Was that how they taught him at school?

          If it was, then the officer violated the regulations by not allowing the soldier to sleep, and must be held accountable. But on the other hand, why would he do it? Was Shamsutdinov a slob and violated the statutory order?
          1. andreykolesov123
            andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 10: 23
            0
            Quote: glory1974
            I said that you can't say "no hazing." Because they are even in school companies, and this is a fact. But I did not say that there is no need to fight this.

            It is necessary to fight not with relations and not with Shamsudinov and not with an idiot officer who first mocked a young soldier for several days and then gave him a weapon, but with the system? Why is the system built in such a way that it does not control itself.

            Quote: glory1974

            If it was, then the officer violated the regulations by not allowing the soldier to sleep, and must be held accountable. But on the other hand, why would he do it? Was Shamsutdinov a slob and violated the statutory order?

            What difference does it make a good or a bad soldier Shamsudinnov. Even though he was the worst soldier in the entire RA, this is not a reason to torture him.
            1. kit88
              kit88 19 January 2021 12: 00
              +5
              You don't have to fight ...

              This phrase from the lips of a "liberal" has been heard always, everywhere, in discussions of any problems for n-twenty years. And it doesn't matter what is being discussed - mass murder or attendance at football matches.
              Continuation of this classic phrase:
              ... the system needs to be changed! wassat
              1. andreykolesov123
                andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 14: 38
                0
                Quote: kit88
                You don't have to fight ...

                This phrase from the lips of a "liberal" has been heard always, everywhere, in discussions of any problems for n-twenty years. And it doesn't matter what is being discussed - mass murder or attendance at football matches.
                Continuation of this classic phrase:
                ... the system needs to be changed! wassat

                Well, if everything suits you, then live like this, when they make slaves of soldiers.
        2. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 19 January 2021 10: 29
          +4
          I would have put it on two. there are many who perceive only through such information. it's like a teacher in school makes you write a sentence a hundred times. people are different and the approach is also different. whether you like it or not. As for the charter, but who also came up with the laws, right? that this simple population commits thousands of crimes every year. what you think is a mockery in fact, the usual work with a soldier who simply does not want to understand who he is and where he is.
          1. andreykolesov123
            andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 10: 41
            -4
            Quote: carstorm 11
            what you think is a mockery in fact, the usual work with a soldier who simply does not want to understand who he is and where he is.

            Are these methods written in the charter?
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 19 January 2021 11: 29
              +2
              These are methods. Dot. I had a conscript who pissed into bed every day. That would be fired. And there was another who swallowed carbite to return to mom's pies. Cut the veins, sank. I've seen everyone. Is this also in the charter?
              1. andreykolesov123
                andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 11: 40
                +1
                Quote: carstorm 11
                These are methods. Dot. I had a conscript who pissed into bed every day. That would be fired. And there was another who swallowed carbite to return to mom's pies. Cut the veins, sank. I've seen everyone. Is this also in the charter?

                And let's cancel the charter and print a period instead? On fig it is needed if it does not make a reservation about pissing soldiers.
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 19 January 2021 11: 55
                  0
                  The charter is the charter.
                  1. andreykolesov123
                    andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 12: 47
                    0
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    The charter is the charter.

                    So I'm talking about that. There is a charter. It's just that officers are not taught how to educate problem soldiers. Here they are trying to educate them to the best of their abilities. They have been teaching for 5 years, the technical specialists are good, but they are not trained to work with the personnel.
                    1. carstorm 11
                      carstorm 11 19 January 2021 18: 36
                      0
                      Everything is learned in work. Where and when were the lieutenants released who already know everything and can do everything?
                    2. Vasya Zyuzkin
                      Vasya Zyuzkin 20 January 2021 07: 23
                      0
                      An officer is not a teacher! He is a specialist! And the idiots and stubborn army itself, like river water, rolls a pebble. And the officer had to send this Tatar immediately to the psychologist for a check as soon as he began to be bullish, and not fight him himself.
                2. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 19 January 2021 18: 39
                  0
                  It started again ... people are different. Everyone has their own cockroaches. To understand this, you need to feel at least once in your life what it means to lead
              2. Avior
                Avior 19 January 2021 12: 32
                +2
                They tried to escape from the good life in a unit or subdivision
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 19 January 2021 18: 41
                  0
                  Sometimes they run simply because they are not comfortable enough. Someone cannot be rebuilt from civilian life. The drug is different. Mom's sons. Outright lazy people. Getting into army life they are very bad.
            2. Alexander Seklitsky
              Alexander Seklitsky 19 January 2021 19: 42
              +1
              Quote: andreykolesov123
              Are these methods written in the charter?

              What do you know about the charter? They put it down like a parrot. In disciplinary battalions, they are re-educated in such a way that a soldier turns out to be a weak-willed substance. For some reason, no conscript wants to go there. Yes, you can't beat a soldier, but you can formalize everything as an exercise in hand-to-hand combat. A lesson plan is written and obstinate. a beginner turns into a punching bag in sparring. Or drill from morning till lunchtime, or running in the lake. And I will notice everything according to the charter. Only now a fighter's can will flow faster from such fatigue than from hazing.
  5. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 19 January 2021 09: 14
    +12
    Actually, it's pure life. Here the reason should not matter, 8 people are horror, for which they must be shot, without talking about humanity.
    1. for
      for 19 January 2021 09: 27
      +6
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      without talking about humanity.

      Moreover, there is no mistake in his guilt.
    2. Varyag71
      Varyag71 19 January 2021 10: 21
      -2
      It's good to reason while sipping tea in front of the monitor screen.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 19 January 2021 10: 58
        +2
        What does the gull have to do with it? This scum killed 8 people, it must be destroyed. You can understand the murder of a husband by a wife, a husband of a wife, household, even a killer, but how to understand a person who killed everyone in a row, including those who did nothing? And after all, he killed in cold blood with finishing, as I understand it.
        1. Obliterator
          Obliterator 19 January 2021 12: 07
          +3
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          You can understand the murder of a husband by a wife, a husband of a wife, household, even a hitman, but how to understand a person who killed everyone

          So he killed them for the same reasons that wives kill husbands-domestic boxers. He did not kill everyone in a row, otherwise more would have come out, and even of these eight, some were shot by accident. He finished off only those whom he considered involved in the bullying.
  6. Avior
    Avior 19 January 2021 09: 23
    +2
    The prosecutor's office and the military are twisting the case so that there was no hazing or other hazing, although they had to officially admit this fact. The command of the unit and those who had to organize the case in such a way that such facts would reach military prosecutors before the situation reaches such tragedies should sit next to it: (((, so that this is considered one case, then, you see, life the accused would have been scattered in justice, and it would have been a life sentence, and each received his own punishment, and for the future there was a vaccination against such stories.
    hi
    1. Asad
      Asad 19 January 2021 09: 50
      +3
      I fully support, I went through this hazing in 80 years! They offer to report to the commander, like he did not know!
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 19 January 2021 09: 53
      +3
      Irregular relations can be recorded even if someone simply sends someone. This is already their fact. The charter clearly and simply outlines the relationship between servicemen. They are very simple and at the same time very difficult to perform in real life. Defense digs out any. This is their job. I came across this when they are trying to turn an outspoken ram into a meek sheep. But they are always based on the testimony of others. On their perception, which is different for everyone.
      1. andreykolesov123
        andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 18: 13
        0
        Quote: carstorm 11
        The charter clearly and simply outlines the relationship between servicemen. They are very simple and at the same time very difficult to perform in real life.

        then it is necessary to change the charter. if the law does not fit real life, then the law is changed.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 19 January 2021 18: 33
          0
          It fits perfectly. You just have to accept it.
  7. hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 19 January 2021 09: 25
    -3
    Everyone has their own threshold of tolerance for humiliation. He stopped humiliation as best he could. I did not see any other options.
  8. prior
    prior 19 January 2021 09: 39
    -3
    Oh, it seems to me that Shamsutdinov saved more than one recruit from bullying and violence.
    Everyone admired Ulyanov in the film Voroshilov shooter, and when the real "Voroshilov shooter" carried out the sentence, the point vibrated.
    Give "conditionally" the people's avenger.
    And who does not agree, imagine a picture of how your son "grandfathers" rape and muzzle.
    1. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 19 January 2021 11: 51
      +4
      Quote: prior
      And who does not agree, imagine a picture of how your son "grandfathers" rape and muzzle.

      There are no signs of beatings or rape on Shamsutdinov. Everything he says in his own defense is called "rotten excuses." The prosecutor's office in this part dug up that a certain sergeant forced subordinates to do push-ups. They don't shoot for that.
      1. prior
        prior 19 January 2021 11: 56
        +2
        I believe the prosecutor's office so much, as I can’t say how I do.
        There are no bruises or beatings on pensioners either, but try to give them weapons ...
        Have you ever read about the Ural pensioner with a double-barreled gun?
        1. Sergey Medvedev
          Sergey Medvedev 19 January 2021 11: 59
          +1
          Quote: prior
          Have you ever read about the Ural pensioner with a double-barreled gun?

          Don't move the arrows.
          This devil, Shamsutdinov, has no bodily harm. And how the prosecutor's office turns the whole part inside out on lesser occasions, I know.
      2. Obliterator
        Obliterator 19 January 2021 12: 26
        +1
        Quote: Sergei Medvedev
        There are no signs of beatings or rape on Shamsutdinov. Everything he says in his own defense is called "rotten excuses." The prosecutor's office in this part dug up that a certain sergeant forced subordinates to do push-ups. They don't shoot for that.

        Nobody shoots for push-ups, but for sleep deprivation and moral press - it is quite possible.
        1. Sergey Medvedev
          Sergey Medvedev 19 January 2021 12: 31
          0
          Quote: Obliterator
          Nobody shoots for push-ups, but for sleep deprivation and moral press - it is quite possible.

          Even Shamsutdinov did not invent such excuses "sleep deprivation and moral pressure".
          1. Obliterator
            Obliterator 19 January 2021 16: 20
            -1
            quote = Sergei Medvedev] Even Shamsutdinov did not invent such excuses "sleep deprivation and moral pressure". [/ quote]
            You yourself are an excuse. The facts that he was not allowed to sleep on guard were established by the investigation. 5 hours for three days is very little.
            1. Vitaly161
              Vitaly161 19 January 2021 21: 19
              0
              oh damn, poor thing, he ... I twice flew into the outfit for the company for 3 days, and I slept at that time somewhere the same, maybe an hour or two longer (standing on the bedside table, I used to doze while standing !!) but it was my own fault , he also let down his comrades, he was not in the outfit to smoke on a long distance, every evening before the outfit was handed over, the political officer came (who burned me) and took off our outfit, we only had time to wash for divorce, and so on for 3 days !!! no one died, after the delivery of the outfit, I immediately fell to sleep dead, did not even undress, the company commander did not even lift up for evening verification, because he understood that we were already on the brink, ufz the next morning I also slept, as if for breakfast pushed, but a lesson for life
            2. Sergey Medvedev
              Sergey Medvedev 19 January 2021 21: 52
              0
              Quote: Obliterator
              You yourself are an excuse. The facts that he was not allowed to sleep on guard were established by the investigation. 5 hours for three days is very little.

              The excuse is not only rotten, but also dull. There are no guards for three days, except for visiting, but there is a different calculation.
              1. Vasya Zyuzkin
                Vasya Zyuzkin 20 January 2021 07: 32
                +2
                If four months with a fasting schedule 4 hours after 4 and plus once a day to the alarm group. Lack of personnel. We slept for an hour between shifts 3-4 hours a day. And no one shot anyone. All these excuses are invented by the defense of this ghoul. But really an ordinary stub so brought up by the same parents.
      3. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 19 January 2021 19: 36
        0
        Quote: Sergei Medvedev
        There are no signs of beatings or rape on Shamsutdinov.


        Because he didn't wait.
  9. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 19 January 2021 09: 42
    +5
    I support the proposals of the state prosecutor!
    1. Varyag71
      Varyag71 19 January 2021 10: 17
      -3
      Look at you if you got into a similar situation, as you would sing.
      1. vladimirvn
        vladimirvn 19 January 2021 10: 49
        +5
        Quote: Varyag71
        Look at you if you got into a similar situation, as you would sing.

        I know everything about hazing. I entered a military school from the army. Young people learned hazing inside and out. Then, as an officer, he fought with her. They are a type of people, like children of the mountains. "We are proud and it is not proper for us to wash floors and toilets. It is easier for us to go to jail, but not to grind." It's not enough to kill this nit. Every day until the end of his life he needs to be dipped in the city ... and the photos should be published in the media. am
        1. sniperino
          sniperino 19 January 2021 15: 31
          +2
          Quote: vladimirvn
          I know everything about hazing, I entered a military school ...
          It's already funny. To learn not everything about hazing, but at least something on your own skin, you had to go to an emergency as a private (even the school of sergeants will not give a ride here). But it also depended on the part: we had it in moderation, and in the neighboring one there was chaos in stories. And in the school there is a special contingent, they voluntarily go there to serve. And the discipline is different.
  10. APASUS
    APASUS 19 January 2021 09: 45
    +8
    Earlier, the defense managed to prove that the real cause of the tragedy was the systematic bullying by senior conscripts, contract soldiers and unit officers. Shamsutdinov himself repented of his deed.

    Then the unit commanders who manage this mess should sit next to him, something is not visible
  11. faiver
    faiver 19 January 2021 09: 52
    +5
    the accused must receive a sentence for the murder, but those who, by action or inaction, led the soldier to a crime, must also receive a sentence
  12. Varyag71
    Varyag71 19 January 2021 10: 16
    -2
    As there was bullying in the Armed Forces, they remained so.
  13. bogart047
    bogart047 19 January 2021 10: 22
    -6
    give the Hero and let go on four sides. Rid the world from the dregs of society
  14. orcinus
    orcinus 19 January 2021 10: 37
    +6
    In this story of the "unfortunate in a state of passion" everything would have glued together, if not for a few "buts":
    1. They scoffed, the soldiers (for example), contract soldiers (for example) and ... the officers, it is worth thinking about it, or it was not so, or the "defendant" was from the category "zadolbal everyone and everything." Why was the whole team negative to one? Then there is no longer a question of bullying in the usual sense;
    2. "Reload the store" - if there are psychiatrists or, at least, psychologists, then let them tell you that the "affective" state does not have a complex plan and actions, everything is spontaneous, like someone in the comments about a bayonet-knife and wrote a scapula;
    3. "Promises in the evening of rough group sexual actions" - so in the army any speech of the commander, incl. and a rank above colonel, translated into a foreign language, can be regarded as a threat to sexual security - YouTube is full of videos of educating personnel with expressions describing complex sexual acts. In continuation, if they "promised", then why all together and to him? Was he the only one "young" in the unit?
    4. And the last thing. Enough people here write "if the crowd has chosen a victim, then it won't go anywhere, etc. ..." let's just say: the crowd feels "psychologically weak or defective", I know enough examples (including from personal observations) when the "newbie" put himself in such a way in the team that problems did not arise.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  15. svoit
    svoit 19 January 2021 10: 49
    0
    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
    I would have promised to shoot them in the evening,

    In the evening, he might not have such an opportunity, but he assessed the threat of rape as real, and it was better to warn it, which he did. The prosecution requested 25, the court will give 20, and in 15 it will be released.
  16. Slipper 2
    Slipper 2 19 January 2021 10: 57
    +6
    A quarter of a century is not enough for such a creature am
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 19 January 2021 19: 37
      -3
      Do you like rapists?
  17. tasha
    tasha 19 January 2021 10: 59
    0
    It is a pity that the guy, finding himself in a difficult situation, did not see another way out. There was no friend or mentor nearby who would listen, suggest what to do, what to do ... And where are the military psychologists?

    I thought about it here. Since the active spread of religion in the army has now begun, let every young soldier go to confession once or twice a month to the priest ...
  18. senima56
    senima56 19 January 2021 11: 08
    +7
    Quote: Crowe
    A well-deserved verdict.

    Not deserved! negative "Honored" - him to the wall! hi
  19. Prax1
    Prax1 19 January 2021 11: 52
    -6
    We seem to be so, I do not blame him.
  20. IRS
    IRS 19 January 2021 12: 30
    +3
    ... sometimes it happens that you need to take a barrel and shoot directly in the head. I'm not sure that Shamsutdinov had such a reason - however, the job is done. It is quite obvious that now it is Shamsutdinov's turn ... otherwise, the majority of the population of Russia will, to put it mildly, incomprehensible, especially the Slavic majority. It is a pity that there is no death penalty in Russia now, at least officially, ... very, very very sorry.
    1. Prax1
      Prax1 19 January 2021 13: 57
      -6
      Thank God no, with our courts ...
  21. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 19 January 2021 12: 53
    +3
    Well, for eight people you have to give the maximum!
    After all, he shot both those who "cheated" him and those who were completely innocent.
    How much grief to his parents and his own and those whom he killed.
  22. Avior
    Avior 19 January 2021 13: 21
    +2
    Discussions on the branches about this event clearly show that any of those who served on a conscript already knows that the officers have a very vague idea of ​​what hazing or petty tyranny of fellow officers is. And in general, an adult man often does not understand well the problems of an 18-year-old, although he himself was so once.
    There is no less protected person in the army than a young man, especially if his grandfathers clung to him, and his own commander spreads rot.
    The peculiarity of the army is that they do not take away for urgent delivery, but take everyone in a row, and from some,
    He is stressed all the time, because he simply does not know how to behave, everything is new, the whole system of relations, he is constantly pulled, and if he complains, the informer's stigma is ready right there, and his call will be added with the mocking one, we are all from childhood we are brought up that it is not good to complain, but the guy is so in general.
    Even if, in a calm atmosphere, he would figure out what they want from you and how to fulfill it, and whose and what desires - orders must be fulfilled, and which ones you can take your time - he does not have time for this and the state of stress does not contribute to this.
    Some army orders look cute and funny, but not for the one who is currently under distribution.
    The whole system is built so that you are under stress, and make mistake after mistake.
    Not because of a good life, they run away from the unit, hang themselves, try to shake off - they pee in bed, cut wreaths, or even come to the point of what happened - not everyone is psychologically ready for where they ended up.
    In addition, you need to understand, hazing, it is very different.
    Someone is at the level of half a joke, half seriously, while someone else gets it to the fullest.
    And all these children's advice about not being afraid, fighting back, and especially complaining, they are just ridiculous. It all depends so much on the specific circumstances that no advice will help you. Give a rebuff - in one case, they will stop touching you, in the other, they will beat you to disability and say that they have fallen from the stairs - the army will always categorically deny such facts and put pressure on others so that they do not confirm.
    and then it turns out - in civilian life I was never seen in aggression and only crossed the road to green - and in the army I killed several people: (((
    There are no such cases without reasons, another thing is that we do not always see them, these reasons. But the court should unequivocally strive to understand such things.
  23. Mmm.
    Mmm. 19 January 2021 13: 50
    +4
    Even if it is necessary and mocked him. But this one killed eight people.
    1. Revival
      Revival 20 January 2021 13: 21
      +1
      Mocked = got
  24. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 19 January 2021 14: 15
    +2
    Would give then life, he is a ready-made maniac, he will come out again to kill.
  25. IRS
    IRS 19 January 2021 14: 22
    +1
    Quote: Prax1
    Thank God no, with our courts ...

    The answer is wrong, ... the time has come when the consequences of not accepting an extreme, but necessary decision will be much more disgusting than the most cruel, most inhuman punishment.
    The moral is simple - to sit out and live on will not work. Only those who can make a cruel decision in time will remain humane. And this applies not only to the courts.
  26. syndicalist
    syndicalist 19 January 2021 15: 04
    +1
    By his act, Shamsutdinov saved hundreds of lives of recruits, whom now many outlaws are afraid to tyrannize. I do not exclude that the Order of Shamsutdinov will be established in the Russia of the future.
    1. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 19 January 2021 19: 51
      +1
      Return to the ward, the orderlies are already looking for you.
  27. gorenina91
    gorenina91 19 January 2021 16: 09
    -3
    Everything was done prudently and intentionally ... - I even foreseen an instant surrender, after committing a crime ... in order to stay alive ... - I thought that if he continued to play a "hero", he would be slapped like a fly ... - This prudent fly remained uncrushed ... survived ...
  28. kursovik
    kursovik 19 January 2021 19: 05
    0
    It's a pity for the guy, but he knew what he was doing .. There were too many left victims and acted deliberately .. This was how the guy had to be brought to go for it
  29. vavilon
    vavilon 20 January 2021 15: 13
    0
    But there are many other ways to stand up for yourself without grabbing a weapon.
    I also served and different things happened,
    he hit one with a stool on his teapot in the hospital and me in the guardhouse after which everyone calmed down, but to grab a weapon and shoot at a colleague was not even in my thoughts.