Military Review

Turkey will invite Biden to form a commission to study aspects of the influence of the S-400 air defense system on NATO air defense

117

Ankara is waiting for the new American president to take up his duties. Then Turkey will offer Joe Biden to form a commission to study the aspects of the influence of the Russian S-400 on the NATO air defense system.


As reported by the NTV channel, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told reporters about this on Friday after returning from a trip to Pakistan.

Ankara believes that the creation of such a site will allow both the preservation of the S-400 systems and return to the F-35 fighter program.

Cavusoglu noted that Turkey is showing sincere efforts to improve relations with Washington and expects the same attitude from the American side.

Last month, in connection with the supply of Russian S-400 air defense systems, Washington imposed sanctions on Turkey, and also excluded it from the F-35 fighter program. Ankara called this step "a serious mistake."

The US says the S-400 purchased by Turkey pose a threat to the F-35 aircraft and to NATO's defensive capabilities in general. Ankara rejects these accusations, stating that the S-400 air defense system will not be integrated into the air defense system of the North Atlantic Alliance. To confirm this, she proposes to create a joint Turkish-American group that would assess the Russian air defense systems in terms of a potential threat to NATO air defense forces in the region.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 17 January 2021 15: 35
    +13
    But practically all sane people talked about this! Here is the "drain" of information about the complex and began, and even persuade!
    1. IGOR GORDEEV
      IGOR GORDEEV 17 January 2021 15: 46
      +8
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      But practically all sane people talked about this! Here is the "drain" of information about the complex and began, and even persuade!

      It was easily predictable that one way or another the Turks would try to leak information about the complex, but they sold it anyway, which means there was some point that outweighed the costs of losing secrets.
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 January 2021 16: 18
        +17
        Do you mean specific meaning for specific people?
        Yes, for them it definitely was.
        1. IGOR GORDEEV
          IGOR GORDEEV 17 January 2021 17: 01
          -4
          Quote: Avior
          Do you mean specific meaning for specific people?
          Yes, for them it definitely was.

          You are trying to separate "specific people" from the interests of the country (if everything is as you say, it will simply be devoured at such a difficult time). In the 90s this was the norm - now I would like to believe the opposite. In any case, neither you nor I are experts on this topic. But we can easily be clever in the comments.
          1. Avior
            Avior 17 January 2021 17: 14
            +1
            ... then there was some meaning outweighing the costs

            I would like to believe otherwise

            Questions of faith are not subject to logic. You cannot be prohibited from believing.
            I first thought about the most likely explanation.
            1. IGOR GORDEEV
              IGOR GORDEEV 17 January 2021 19: 10
              +1
              Quote: Avior
              ... then there was some meaning outweighing the costs

              I would like to believe otherwise

              Questions of faith are not subject to logic. You cannot be prohibited from believing.
              I first thought about the most likely explanation.

              Have you thought about the most likely explanation? I mean, I am operating with the illogical concept of "faith", and you do not know how the calculated probability?))) Tell us, if it does not bother you, how did you calculate this probability.
              1. Avior
                Avior 17 January 2021 19: 19
                +4
                God forbid that he would prove something to a person who wants to believe!
                Anything I write, he will sweep as wrong. Why should I waste my time?
                Just write right away that I'm wrong, and I will save a lot of time and effort with the same result.
                hi
                1. IGOR GORDEEV
                  IGOR GORDEEV 17 January 2021 19: 50
                  -1
                  Quote: Avior
                  Anything I write, he will sweep as wrong. Why should I waste my time?

                  And yet you haven't answered my question about "probability";)
    2. user1212
      user1212 17 January 2021 16: 03
      +3
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      But practically all sane people talked about this! Here is the "drain" of information about the complex and began, and even persuade!

      Export С400 does not contain anything particularly secret by definition. The most important military secret is how far the C400 can hit the F35. But the Americans are shouting about the threat to F35, so this is their secret, not Russian
      1. for
        for 18 January 2021 03: 42
        +2
        Quote: user1212
        Export С400 does not contain anything particularly secret by definition

        Maybe it's not about secrecy, the fact of the sale of our weapons the enemy... Well, if you want to trade, trade in tomatoes.
        1. user1212
          user1212 18 January 2021 04: 17
          -1
          Quote: for
          It may even be a matter of not secrecy, the fact of the sale of our weapons to the enemy. Well, if you want to trade, trade in tomatoes.

          It depends on how you look at it. It can be either for sale to the enemy, or it can be used to strengthen the defense capability of the Motherland at the enemy's expense, or as an investment of state money in the Russian military industry. wink
          1. for
            for 18 January 2021 04: 48
            +2
            Quote: user1212
            it is possible both to strengthen the defense of the homeland at the enemy's expense

            Or maybe we can find other reserves, we have so many of them. And so we strengthen the enemy's defenses, albeit at his expense.
            1. user1212
              user1212 18 January 2021 05: 05
              +2
              Quote: for
              Or maybe we can find other reserves, we have so many of them. And so we strengthen the enemy's defenses, albeit at his expense.

              The defense capability of one enemy from another enemy, so more precisely. What's bad about it? The Turks S400 want to hide from American aviation, not from ours. They have the entire NATO bloc for our aviation, but how to protect yourself from NATO aviation while in NATO ... There is such a lack of democracy, even in a NATO country there can be found. Then the democratizers and the khan will arrive. Erdogan is scared. laughing
              1. for
                for 18 January 2021 06: 01
                +1
                Quote: user1212
                What's bad about it?

                And this is how they turn out to be the wrong hands, and we God forbid they hurt each other.
                1. user1212
                  user1212 18 January 2021 10: 59
                  0
                  Quote: for
                  it turns out they are us

                  What a horror :) And when was it different? In my opinion, since the time of acquaintance with the Anglo-Saxons, it has not happened otherwise
                  Quote: for
                  we god forbid they hurt each other

                  Just let them offend, it is important for us that it is expensive and for a long time. So that the minke whales do not win in one wicket. Probably GDP believes that under-Erdogan Turkey is more useful than sub-American
    3. Thrifty
      Thrifty 17 January 2021 16: 38
      +14
      And we will build a nuclear power plant for them, and we will sell another C400. ... to arm your potential enemy, the eternal enemy, against whom you have fought how many times - beyond insanity! !!
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 17 January 2021 16: 51
        +8
        And we will also sell the second set of S-400 together with the production technology.
        Obviously, one of the sellers on our side is Judas and needs to hang with an edge on the hook.
        1. Quadro
          Quadro 18 January 2021 01: 40
          0
          Quote: Aleksandr1971
          And we will also sell the second set of S-400 together with the production technology.
          Obviously, one of the sellers on our side is Judas and needs to hang with an edge on the hook.

          Who said we will sell? Or if only to shake off and disrupt the pluses? Even the allied China was not given any technology from the s400, and you are all-consuming about Turkey.
          1. user1212
            user1212 18 January 2021 04: 37
            +3
            Quote: Quadro
            Who said we will sell? Or if only to shake off and disrupt the pluses?

            They just don't say a few words. Some production technologists will indeed be given to them, but which one? What is hidden behind the sofa phrase "production technology"? And behind it is the technology of screwdriver assembly of a rocket from ready-made spare parts supplied from Russia
        2. NI1
          NI1 18 January 2021 05: 30
          +2
          You should not be distressed ahead of time.
          1. The commander-in-chief may not yet be aware of the situation. This is how he finds out everything, makes a fair decision. Enemies will be punished, people will be protected, traitors will be imprisoned.
          2. The commander-in-chief has long been aware of everything. It's such a cunning plan to outplay everyone. He is wise and has proven it many times.

          Which of these options is true, we do not need to know and should not. Our business is small: do what they say. One hell, one end to everything: we go to heaven, the enemies go to nuclear ashes.
      2. venik
        venik 17 January 2021 18: 53
        +3
        Quote: Thrifty
        ... to arm your potential enemy, the eternal enemy, against whom you have fought how many times - beyond insanity! !!

        =======
        And if this enemy is armed with, for example, "Patriots" will become easier for all of us?
        They do not have "Patriots" well, thank God! How to deal with export (!) version of the S-400 we know! Because NOBODY knows a weapon better than the ONE who has it created request
      3. zloba71
        zloba71 17 January 2021 19: 56
        +1
        Yes, we'd rather sell them ours than the Americans. Start what a mess, I'm 100% sure that ours there provided for disabling combat algorithms against our aircraft. But with American missile defense systems, this will no longer work. The Turks are not fools that they want to have both the S-400 and American systems, because they know if something happens, the Petriot will never be able to fire a missile on a US plane, and the S-400 on a Russian plane. And so they have complete protection from everyone. And here we are only making money, the Americans are not afraid to sell their weapons to everyone and make money on this. We have nothing to fear here, because There are S-300s in the USA, Greece, and Ukraine, but none of them could decipher the algorithms for the combat operation of these systems. And plus to all this deal, we brought discord to NATO and perhaps its strongest member, Turkey, will soon withdraw from there, this is geopolitics.
      4. Quadro
        Quadro 18 January 2021 01: 39
        -1
        Quote: Thrifty
        And we will build a nuclear power plant for them, and we will sell another C400. ... to arm your potential enemy, the eternal enemy, against whom you have fought how many times - beyond insanity! !!

        Are we going to attack Turkey? Will they arrange a lot of blitzkriegs with 400? And yes, it is worth reminding the kids and those who do not really understand that the sale of the c400 and the construction of a nuclear power plant is the creation of Turkey's dependence on the Russian Federation, the nuclear power plant will be serviced by us and will operate on our fuel, for the c400 specialists will study with us, and not somewhere in Texas or California. The main thing is to scream everything is gone and that all the technologies have already been merged, otherwise they will not put plus signs.
        1. Николаев
          Николаев 18 January 2021 02: 58
          0
          Uh-huh. In Ukraine, westinghouse is already discussing the entire nuclear power plant. And they scamper their fuel
        2. keeper03
          keeper03 20 January 2021 19: 27
          0
          We never attacked first, rather the Turks will attack, but this will be their last attack in history! soldier
    4. Anar
      Anar 17 January 2021 17: 05
      -8
      What is the drain of information that you will be worn out as pregnant? If the information had been drained, it would not have been so advertised !!! It would have been done behind closed doors long ago.
      NATO said that these systems did not recognize the NATO Air Force and could spontaneously strike their aircraft. Turkey, in defense of the air defense systems of Russia, says - "America, what are you delusional - these systems will not fire if we do not want to! Do you want to fly yourself in the zone of these systems and see their reaction.
      And then the sofa hysterics right away ..... betrayed ..... sold .....
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII 17 January 2021 17: 34
        +2
        Quote: Anar
        What is the drain of information that you will be worn out as pregnant? If the information had been drained, it would not have been so advertised !!! It would have been done behind closed doors long ago.
        NATO said that these systems did not recognize the NATO Air Force and could spontaneously strike their aircraft. Turkey, in defense of the air defense systems of Russia, says - "America, what are you delusional - these systems will not fire if we do not want to! Do you want to fly yourself in the zone of these systems and see their reaction.
        And then the sofa hysterics right away ..... betrayed ..... sold .....

        True, there are secrets everywhere, but Turkey is not talking about secrets. And about the fact that he wants to buy weapons at his own discretion, for his own safety, and not at the behest of another state. And use it on its territory, as required by security. This is precisely the problem in NATO. They say take a machine gun instead of a cannon, it also shoots.))
      2. Plastmaster
        Plastmaster 17 January 2021 18: 36
        0
        Quote: Anar
        Do you want to fly in the zone of these systems yourself and see their reaction

        I hope for one thing. We will also get some secrets on airplanes. If not ..... Hang everyone.
        1. zloba71
          zloba71 17 January 2021 20: 04
          -1
          I think that when our specialists arrive for the scheduled maintenance of these systems, they will insert a hard disk where it is necessary and all data on the history of the combat operation of these systems will be recorded on it, and then they will be sent to the Ministry of Defense. Although it may be there generally everything is transmitted online. The Americans are nervous about this, plus they understand that Turkey, with the receipt of these complexes, will now be able to resist them in case of a mess.
    5. iouris
      iouris 17 January 2021 18: 09
      +1
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Here is the "drain" of information about the complex and began, and even persuade!

      We must get ahead of them.
      1. dSK
        dSK 17 January 2021 19: 15
        +3
        Those who produce and sell will earn money. And how will those who fight and die at the hands of pro-Turkish militants in Syria assess the strengthening of Turkey's military power ??
        1. Quadro
          Quadro 18 January 2021 01: 42
          0
          Quote: dsk
          Those who produce and sell will earn money. And how will those who fight and die at the hands of pro-Turkish militants in Syria assess the strengthening of Turkey's military power ??

          And what did the c400 militants have?
  2. Polymer
    Polymer 17 January 2021 15: 37
    +1
    Well, they are already trying to sell secrets. Something is not audible reaction of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation to such proposals.
    1. hirurg
      hirurg 17 January 2021 19: 33
      0
      Do you really think that our Defense Ministry did not foresee the situation with the transfer of the S-400 in full?
      Therefore, this situation is at least not critical. And as a maximum, it may be useful. Have you thought about it?
      1. Polymer
        Polymer 17 January 2021 19: 50
        +3
        Quote: hirurg
        Have you thought about this?

        It also makes sense to think about the fact that despite the frequent statements in the style of "big giraffe - he knows best", there are clearly more failures in foreign policy than successes.
        1. hirurg
          hirurg 17 January 2021 19: 54
          -4
          You are mistaken, that is exactly what foreign policy is all right. I will not list examples.
          1. Polymer
            Polymer 17 January 2021 20: 11
            0
            Quote: hirurg
            I will not list examples.

            And it is not necessary. I know about successes, and I am not saying that there are none at all. But in general, Russia is still defending itself, and, as you know, the war cannot be won by defense alone.
            1. hirurg
              hirurg 17 January 2021 20: 18
              -1
              defense alone ..
              This is how we beat both the French and the Germans ...
              And others, too, you .. play.
              1. Polymer
                Polymer 17 January 2021 20: 21
                +1
                Quote: hirurg
                defense alone ..

                I disagree. So far, they were just defending themselves - they were losing, despite some successful counterattacks. They began to win only when they launched a large-scale offensive.
                1. hirurg
                  hirurg 17 January 2021 20: 31
                  -1
                  Well, do not tear the reins, ditch the horses. Do not twist the nuts abruptly to break the thread. Everything has its time. With respect.)
                  1. Polymer
                    Polymer 17 January 2021 20: 34
                    0
                    Quote: hirurg
                    With respect.)

                    Mutually! hi
              2. for
                for 18 January 2021 03: 52
                0
                Quote: hirurg
                This is how we beat both the French and the Germans.

                At what cost? We must hit at once in Berlin and Paris, and not from Moscow.
  3. hydrox
    hydrox 17 January 2021 15: 37
    -2
    Isn't it time to turn on the most important S-400 blocks, handed over to the Turks, for self-destruction, or is this operation planned at the moment when the Americans put their muzzles there - if our intelligence has such a level, then the SVR should be congratulated on very great success. yes
  4. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 17 January 2021 15: 38
    -1
    Do Turks offer mattresses to fly in the S-400 sight? Good idea))) True, it turns out that the fu-35 is the same "stealth" as a steel cube with an edge length of 150 meters laughing
  5. Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 17 January 2021 15: 38
    +3
    considering that the Turks are going to buy the second batch of С400, they are trolling the USA wassat
    1. bar
      bar 17 January 2021 15: 53
      +2
      Quote: SanichSan
      the Turks are going to buy the second batch of C400

      Promising doesn't mean getting married. And another question, who are they trolling.
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 17 January 2021 16: 02
        +1
        Quote: bar
        To promise is not to marry.

        Are you referring to the statement of the Turkish Foreign Ministry?
        Quote: bar
        And another question, who are they trolling.

        Considering that the S400 was taken, in fact, abandoning the already paid F-35, definitely the United States. wink
        do you have doubts? think the Turks will give out terrible secrets export C400, whose characteristics are publicly available? belay nightmare! wassat
        1. bar
          bar 17 January 2021 16: 08
          +3
          Quote: SanichSan
          considering that they took the S400, actually abandoning the already paid F-35

          Well, you can see for yourself that they did not completely refuse. And they are going to return to the F-35 program in exchange for the participation of the striped ones in "studying aspects of the Russian S-400" (and they will obviously study not only export characteristics, but also hardware, and possibly software). And, given the Lockheed problems with the sale of their penguins, the Turks can easily do it. So shta ... winked
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 17 January 2021 16: 30
            +1
            Quote: bar
            Well, you can see for yourself that they did not completely refuse.

            by itself! would you be able to completely abandon the 8 lard greens? belay not some there, but personally yours, invested in a joint project?
            Quote: bar
            And they are going to return to the F-35 program in exchange for the participation of the striped ones in "studying aspects of the Russian S-400" (and they will obviously study not only export characteristics, but also hardware, and possibly software).
            once again, the Turks have an export product. it contains both hardware and software. can be studied. lol
            if you forgot, Saudi Arabia was offered the C400, the best friend of the United States. it is strange that the Pentagon is aware that obtaining export weapons will not help them, while local "experts" for some reason believe the opposite. do you think that in the pentagon? belay
            1. bar
              bar 17 January 2021 17: 15
              +1
              Quote: SanichSan
              the Turks have an export product. it contains both hardware and software. can study

              I would have your confidence recourse
              Quote: SanichSan
              С400 Saudi Arabia was offered, the best friend of the USA

              But it was exactly torlling, and a thick one.
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 17 January 2021 17: 40
                0
                Quote: bar
                I would have your confidence

                just as an example ... 3M14 hit targets at a distance of 1500 km and this is not the limit. 3M14E has a range of 300 km. you can look at the wiki.
                take care of your nerves and health hi
                1. Avior
                  Avior 17 January 2021 18: 54
                  +4
                  not a very good example
                  300 km - this means that the range is artificially cut in order to comply with the Agreement on the regime of proliferation of missile technologies, it is this figure that appears there as the maximum.
                  There is no such agreement on radar and aviation.
                  1. Sanichsan
                    Sanichsan 17 January 2021 19: 35
                    0
                    agree hi
                    but the fact that the export is significantly inferior in performance to the combatant is a normal practice request for example, the United States supplies partners with obsolete weapons. you should know that well wink Russia supplies relatively modern samples, but with worse characteristics than those of the combatants. request
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 17 January 2021 20: 22
                      +4
                      but the fact that the export is significantly inferior in performance to the combatant is a normal practice

                      it is an old Soviet practice when it was given away for free.
                      And when you have to pay, who will pay for the worse option, except in cases like those with missile technology? Why is the buyer so happy?
                      The United States supplies the buyer with the same F-35 or F-16 as itself, unless there is a special agreement, as with Israel. And sometimes it's better, as happens with the F-15. Who pays is the one who orders.
                      1. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 17 January 2021 22: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Avior
                        And when you have to pay, who will pay for the worse option, except in cases like those with missile technology? Why is the buyer so happy?

                        what does aggravated mean? Russia does not undertake to supply the same equipment as is in service. the characteristics of the export equipment correspond to those declared in open sources. customers get exactly what they pay for request
                        Quote: Avior
                        The United States supplies the buyer with the same F-35 or F-16 as itself, unless there is a special agreement, as with Israel. And sometimes it's better, as happens with the F-15. Who pays is the one who orders.
                        do not confuse an initially commercial project in which several countries participate with their own latest developments.
                        to whom are the Zamvolts sold? to whom were the F-22 sold? who sold the Abrams sep3? there are no such... request
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 17 January 2021 22: 43
                        +2
                        do you see? once for sale means commercial.
                        and who will take it if its parameters are worse?
                        what does aggravated mean?

                        improved?
                        where did you get the idea that he is different, not the one inside the country?
                      3. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 17 January 2021 23: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: Avior
                        do you see? once for sale means commercial.
                        and who will take it if its parameters are worse?

                        as you can see, everyone takes, and will take wink parameters are worse than those in the Russian army, but better than those offered for export by other countries. choose from what is on the export market.
                        Quote: Avior
                        improved?
                        where did you get the idea that he is different, not the one inside the country?

                        there are acquaintances in the military-industrial complexwink
                        and Putin directly spoke, communicating with the developers of the Su-57 at one of the last MAKS (air show) - prepare the model for export. haven't you heard? I thought you were watching all Putin's speeches winked
                        I do not insist. personally you may not believe request That's your business hi
                      4. Avior
                        Avior 17 January 2021 23: 25
                        +2
                        parameters are worse than those in the Russian army

                        You have been talking about this for so long, and I am asking for just a link that would confirm your statement.
                      5. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 17 January 2021 23: 35
                        -2
                        link to what? for state secrets? belay normal application wassat
                        I repeat
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        I do not insist. personally you may not believe request That's your business hi

                        laughing
                      6. Avior
                        Avior 17 January 2021 23: 39
                        +2
                        why not believe there if you yourself declare that you do not know anything about it.
                      7. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 17 January 2021 23: 51
                        -4
                        Quote: Avior
                        why not believe there if you yourself declare that you do not know anything about it.

                        everything is ok laughing Peremoga is complete! nobody knows anything. yes how is it accepted there? fat of urania! death to the creators! wassat
                        PS
                        but the naivety is amazing! did you really expect links to state-of-the-art documentation? in order to prove something to you ??? belay
                      8. Avior
                        Avior 18 January 2021 00: 23
                        +1
                        expected to see something other than idle chatter. did not see.
                        hi
                      9. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 18 January 2021 00: 31
                        -3
                        Quote: Avior
                        expected to see something other than idle chatter. did not see.

                        I brought you the fact that the export version is being developed based on the version for the army and this is not the same army equipment. Are the President's statements not enough for you? although .. knowing your presidents, you can be understood hi
                        about the characteristics, I know from those familiar with the military-industrial complex. you can see the link to the export version in the tyrnet. there is no data on combatants in open sources.
                        believe it or not, it's up to you request I do not insist. jump as much as you want wink
      2. Quadro
        Quadro 18 January 2021 01: 48
        -3
        Quote: Avior
        but the fact that the export is significantly inferior in performance to the combatant is a normal practice

        it is an old Soviet practice when it was given away for free.
        And when you have to pay, who will pay for the worse option, except in cases like those with missile technology? Why is the buyer so happy?
        The United States supplies the buyer with the same F-35 or F-16 as itself, unless there is a special agreement, as with Israel. And sometimes it's better, as happens with the F-15. Who pays is the one who orders.

        Did the Americans sell many cool f-16s to Iraq there? Or maybe m1 sep3 Egypt? Yankees sell outdated garbage, the maximum that they will sell new is small arms and armored vehicles. The Germans also don't sell their most modern leopards to anyone.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 17 January 2021 16: 52
    +4
    The point is not in the well-known performance characteristics of the S-400, but in the fact that having studied them, it is possible to develop measures to counter our S-400
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 17 January 2021 17: 02
      -3
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      The point is not in the well-known performance characteristics of the S-400, but in the fact that having studied them, it is possible to develop measures to counter our S-400

      in short, no.
      if deployed, the combatant С400 differs significantly from the export С400, and all that a detailed study of the Turkish С400 will give is effective countermeasures to the Turkish С400 request do you think the Turks will go for it? after putting so much effort into NATO's anti-aircraft defense program? doubtful.
      the desire to return the investment in the F-35 program is understandable and they will continue to try to somehow recoup this money, but their own safety is more expensive.
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 January 2021 22: 44
        +3
        then combatant С400 differ significantly from export С400

        what is this statement based on?
        1. Quadro
          Quadro 18 January 2021 01: 49
          -3
          Quote: Avior
          then combatant С400 differ significantly from export С400

          what is this statement based on?

          And what is the opposite based on? On your faith?
  • Simon schempp
    Simon schempp 17 January 2021 16: 06
    -3
    hike they troll the USA

    It is the United States who has well trolled the Turks by excluding the F-35 from the program.
    I think because of this exchange, the Turks are very sorry that they agreed to buy the c400.
    But reputation will no longer allow them to be abandoned.
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 17 January 2021 16: 11
      +1
      Quote: Simon Schempp
      It is the United States who has well trolled the Turks by excluding the F-35 from the program.

      this is not called trolling, but fraud. request you paid, but the paid purchase was not provided to you.
      Quote: Simon Schempp
      I think because of this exchange, the Turks are very sorry that they agreed to buy the c400.

      they could well refuse, but they did not refuse. for them, the S400 is noticeably more needed than the F-35, even taking into account the loss of several billion dollars invested in the F-35 program.
      Quote: Simon Schempp
      But reputation does not allow to refuse them.

      Erdogan's reputation? does not allow ??? lol
  • Russ
    Russ 17 January 2021 15: 48
    +4
    The campaign does not work ...
    And sit on something and eat a fish ... wink
  • Dart
    Dart 17 January 2021 15: 51
    +2
    I wonder what our people think about this ... isn't this a gross violation of the terms of the contract?
    In general, was it really incomprehensible that sooner or later the complex would be ruined and all the software would be decompiled ... are our people so confident in themselves?
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 17 January 2021 16: 04
      -1
      Quote: Dart
      Is this not a gross violation of the terms of the contract?

      and what is the violation of the contract? Turks have no technology, they only have an export product that anyone can buy, including the United States wink
      1. Dart
        Dart 17 January 2021 16: 27
        +2
        so one thing is the use of goods, exploitation, and another is a deep study of what they are going to do through the NATO commission ... we have read one text with you. Technologies, say no ... hmm, and what other special technologies are needed to study the hardware and software, handy and programmers in Turkey in abundance, I know, I worked with the Turks for more than one year, while they built a lot in Russia ...
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 17 January 2021 16: 49
          -3
          Quote: Dart
          No technology, you say ... hmm, and what other special technologies are needed to study hardware and software

          what hardware and what software? the one that Russia itself sells abroad? Note, not to friends, but to everyone. do you seriously believe that this can damage the country's defense? they are made with the expectation of selling to everyone.
          do you know how the export version differs from the drill one? for example, the target destruction range for 3M14 is more than 1500 km, the target destruction range for 3M14E is 300 km wink
          but about the iron, it is not enough to disassemble the product to the screw to learn how to make it. as an example - RD180. the USA also has the engines themselves, and they bought the technical documentation, but they could not reproduce request
          Quote: Dart
          There are plenty of handy people and programmers in Turkey, I know, I worked with the Turks for more than one year, while they built a lot in Russia ...

          and what do you think the "handy Turkish programmers" will do? learn to counter their own air defense? I don't really know how to programmatically resist air defense, but apparently you meant exactly that ... I'll clarify again, their S400 is not at all what protects the Russian sky. so this is a problem of Turks personally request they substitute their sky, according to your logic wink but we both understand that the Turks will not do this. after the putsch them an effective air defense system is needed against NATO aviation. bully yes, they really want to recapture their investments in the F-35 project, but the security of Turkey itself is still a higher priority request
          1. Dart
            Dart 17 January 2021 17: 03
            +4
            have you ever bought paid software? Well, I think, the antivirus and the Windows itself with your office are licensed ... Read the license agreement and the terms of provision as a thread ... I don't think that the contract with Turkey is very different in general terms ... You can't smoke and study (!), You can just enjoy! All other violations.
            "RD180. The USA also has the engines themselves, and they bought the technical documentation." for operation, not licensed production.
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 17 January 2021 17: 15
              -1
              Quote: Dart
              You can't smoke and study (!), You can only use it! All other violations.

              neither I nor you have seen this contract, but I think that you are right. this is the usual norm. however, how critical is it?
              re-read the last paragraph of my previous post. all these are problems of Turkey. even if within the framework of the commission they will smoke something, they will open their own sky, and not the Russian one request also problems with Russia will be under the contract. do you think they will go for it? Erdogan is certainly an aggressive politician, but certainly not to expose himself like that request one coup was enough for him.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 17 January 2021 16: 57
      +3
      1. I believe that agreements on the sale of our weapons should contain conditions on the inadmissibility of acquaintance with the sold weapons of third parties.

      2. If there is no such condition, then the seller's representative must be hung on a hook by the jaw. And his children, too, for a start, so that the parent saw before death.

      3. If there is such a condition, but it is not fulfilled by the buyer, then demand the sold goods back without refunding the payment. And no more arms deals.

      4. You also need to buy or steal interesting samples of US weapons sold by amers to their allies. And then the amers have whole arsenals of our advanced weapons, and we have nichrome from their advanced.
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 17 January 2021 17: 31
        -3
        generally agree with you yes
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        3. If there is such a condition, but it is not fulfilled by the buyer, then demand the sold goods back without refunding the payment. And no more arms deals.

        it is enough to remove it from the support so that it bends. no spare parts - no equipment request Well, of course, claims will need to be filled up.
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        4. You also need to buy or steal interesting samples of US weapons sold by amers to their allies.

        I'm afraid that nothing interesting will be stolen there. The US does not sell to colonies what is critical for their own security. just like us wink
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        And then the amers have whole arsenals of our advanced weapons, and we have nichrome from their advanced.

        and what of our advanced weapons ended up in the United States?
        We have, for example, an American "super-smart missile", as Trump called them, which did not reach the target during the shelling of an airfield in Syria. and what do they have?
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 18 January 2021 06: 50
          0
          Quote: SanichSan

          and what of our advanced weapons ended up in the United States?
          We have, for example, an American "super-smart missile", as Trump called them, which did not reach the target during the shelling of an airfield in Syria. and what do they have?


          From what our Commander-in-Chief showed in cartoons, the amers still have nothing, of course. However, as we have only prototypes, not adopted weapons. And if something was delivered to the RF Armed Forces, then in ridiculous quantities and without real prospects for increasing the number.

          By the advanced weapons of Russia, I mean those samples that are now massive and basic in the RF Armed Forces, namely, what was developed in the USSR, it may have undergone partial modernization and sold-transferred to the troops of the former members of the Warsaw Pact, or to the troops of countries previously in the USSR.
          These are missile defense systems, incl. S-300, electronic warfare, and images of aircraft (primarily MiG-29), which are now held at storage bases in Florida and other places, and are used for training the US Armed Forces.
          The Americans also have the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the S-300 complex in Greece and Cyprus, where Russia sold them in the zero years. Now they will also get familiar with the S-400 in Turkey. After all, the Turks began to actively invite amers to this.

          By the way, the Russian submarine is also mostly known in the USA. So from modern submarines, one "Halibut" went to Poland. The Russian Pike-B, leased in India, was once handed over to the Americans for review without the consent of the Russian side. And official Russia did not even express "concern" about this. Apparently against the once impoverished India, Russia now has a gut.

          Americans are actively selling their weapons to the countries of Southeast Asia and the Middle East. That is where you could steal samples of American electronic warfare, air defense, aircraft, artillery, etc. Moreover, with a high degree of corruption in the power structures of Asian states, such special operations are quite possible.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 18 January 2021 14: 58
            -1
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            From what our Commander-in-Chief showed in cartoons, the amers still have nothing, of course. However, as we have only prototypes, not adopted weapons. And if something was delivered to the RF Armed Forces, then in ridiculous quantities and without real prospects for increasing the number.

            nothing, everything is gone? belay do you need to feel so sorry for yourself that you are ready to come up with the most incredible stories? it is regularly reported that new and modernized equipment has entered the army, but no! you need to keep repeating the mantra that "nothing is there, everything is lost" and suffer?
            don't be fooled, save your nerves! we still have to ruin the pension fund! wink But in fact, the renewal of the Russian army is proceeding at such a pace that even the United States with its own budget is forced to admit that such a pace is not being pulled. request
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            By the advanced weapons of Russia, I mean those samples that are now massive and basic in the RF Armed Forces, namely, what was developed in the USSR, it may have undergone partial modernization and sold-transferred to the troops of the former members of the Warsaw Pact, or to the troops of countries previously in the USSR.

            yes, but the "advanced" is inappropriate here. this is the last century. yes, it floats, shoots and fully corresponds to the declared characteristics, but in modern conditions this is absolutely not enough. weapons are created and modernized in accordance with the existing threats and features of combat operations.
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            The Americans also have the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the S-300 complex in Greece and Cyprus, where Russia sold them in the zero years.

            have already read and conducted exercises ... but again, let me remind you that this is the last century request
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            Now they will also get familiar with the S-400 in Turkey. After all, the Turks began to actively invite amers to this.

            Let's start with the fact that these are export S400, not the ones in service with the Russian Federation. then do not come up with something that is not. Turks want to collect a commission to prove that the S400 does not affect the NATO missile defense system. nothing will come of them, but let them try. Yes, they really want to return the billions invested in the F-35, but let me remind you that they have already gone on losses in this project in order to have protection from NATO aircraft. if they allow American specialists to their С400, it will be a problem exclusively for the Turks request
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            By the way, the Russian submarine is also mostly known in the USA. So from modern submarines, one "Halibut" went to Poland.

            yes, but this is a submarine of 80 years without modernization. at the time of the collapse of the USSR, it was really serious, but now it is not at all relevant.
            Let me remind you that then a whole Yakovlev Design Bureau with giblets was sold to the Americans ... am
            but this has nothing to do with the current situation with the C400.
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            The Russian Pike-B, leased in India, was once handed over to the Americans for review without the consent of the Russian side. And official Russia did not even express "concern" about this. Apparently against the once impoverished India, Russia now has a gut.

            and when was that? You wouldn't dare to say that foreign policy before 2014 is the same as after 2014? wink
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            Americans are actively selling their weapons to the countries of Southeast Asia and the Middle East. That is where you could steal samples of American electronic warfare, air defense, aircraft, artillery, etc. Moreover, with a high degree of corruption in the power structures of Asian states, such special operations are quite possible.

            there is nothing to take. The USA does not sell anything of defense value to the colonies. there is the same last century as the Greeks, our C300. what to study there? and so if something interesting in the United States is lost, then we usually appear. there is the same rocket. Iranians may have shared a reconnaissance drone, but they did not advertise it .... sort of like a relatively modern missile defense system in Japan and South Korea, but "is it worth the candle" considering that they could not even stop Eun's missiles?
            1. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 18 January 2021 15: 29
              0
              I will object with just one example - THAAD is hosted in South Korea. Try to say that this is not advanced US technology.
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 18 January 2021 17: 04
                0
                Quote: Aleksandr1971
                I will object with just one example - THAAD is hosted in South Korea. Try to say that this is not advanced US technology.

                I agree with that yes in Japan yet. but he showed himself strangely ... that is, not at all. not a single Eun missile flying over Japanese territory was shot down. I liked the explanation of the Americans laughing "too expensive!"
                but again, they are not marching there near South Korea or Japan, but on their territory .. like our C300 sold to Syria.
                THAAD is not easy to get request just as the United States will not be able to get the S400 combatant covering objects in Syria ... wink
  • bar
    bar 17 January 2021 15: 51
    +3
    Then Turkey will propose ... to form a commission to study the aspects of the influence of the Russian S-400 on the NATO air defense system.

    And who had any doubts about Erdogan's "friend"?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Dart
    Dart 17 January 2021 15: 56
    +1
    Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
    and so there was some sense outweighing the costs of losing secrets.

    when you don't know anything, such news sounds depressing ...
  • svp67
    svp67 17 January 2021 15: 57
    +1
    Ankara believes that the creation of such a site will allow both the preservation of the S-400 systems and return to the F-35 fighter program.
    But will Russia leave room for cooperation with Turkey?
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 17 January 2021 16: 00
    0
    That will be a laugh when the fu-35 will glow like a lamp.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 17 January 2021 16: 05
    0
    Partners are under attack. We urgently need to provide them with the parameters of the C400 system. Pragmatism and nothing personal.
  • dima314
    dima314 17 January 2021 16: 08
    +1
    Erdogan is trying to make peace with the Americans). Suddenly the shitcrats will be more tolerant of the tricks of the Turkish ruler). But, I sense, he is more likely to quarrel with Russia than with the Americans.
  • spirit
    spirit 17 January 2021 16: 08
    -1
    For me, this is some kind of public play! After all, this is a real gift! In the place of NATO, I would conduct exercises there every day with the C 400 and drive everything that flies through them, having developed a concept of counteraction, especially the f-35, having found out in what projection they shine the least. The young Turks ate the fish and *** sat down hi
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 17 January 2021 16: 19
      0
      Quote: spirit
      In the place of NATO, I would conduct exercises there every day with the C 400 and drive everything that flies through them, developing a concept of counteraction, especially the f-35, having found out in which projection they shine the least.

      there is a discrepancy ... C400 export and C400 are two big differences. even the "partners" understand it. F-35 eco commercial project in order to earn money, and if it turns out that stealth is not stealth at all, but just an expensive flyer with dubious flight characteristics, then this will be a big problem for all project participants request
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 January 2021 19: 21
        +3
        Export С400 and С400 are two big differences.

        do you think you developed two completely different systems, that is, doubled the development and construction costs?
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 17 January 2021 19: 47
          -2
          Quote: Avior
          you think you have developed two completely different systems

          with what fright "completely different"? belay most of the nodes are identical, but not all.
          Quote: Avior
          that is, doubled the development and construction costs?

          why doubled that? but you almost guessed it wink the export version is developed after the creation of a combatant on its basis. we have it the norm.
          1. Avior
            Avior 17 January 2021 20: 19
            +3
            you can tell in more detail, which nodes are identical, and which are not, and where did you get this?
            It is clear, we do not take the identification of friend or foe and the like.
            Otherwise, how is the Russian S-400 fundamentally different from the Turkish or Chinese, and how does this affect its capabilities?
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 17 January 2021 22: 13
              -2
              Quote: Avior
              you can tell in more detail, which nodes are identical, and which are not, and where did you get this?

              Are you seriously? laughing that is, you would have told something like that on a forum to convince someone of something being involved in the production? belay
              but not associated with production. I know about the export characteristics below from my friends working in the military-industrial complex. naturally without details bully
              Quote: Avior
              Otherwise, how is the Russian S-400 fundamentally different from the Turkish or Chinese, and how does this affect its capabilities?

              fundamentally? is completely no different. both those and others shoot down planes.
              1. Avior
                Avior 17 January 2021 23: 32
                +2
                that is, you do not know anything about it, and you cannot confirm your statements with anything.
                clear.
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 17 January 2021 23: 45
                  -3
                  Quote: Avior
                  that is, you do not know anything about it, and you cannot confirm your statements with anything.
                  clear.

                  what are you waiting for? What am I going to start dumping the characteristics of modern combat air defense systems to you? to prove something on the forum to a certain Ukrainian activist? belay have you all jumped there since 2014? wassat
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 17 January 2021 23: 52
                    +3
                    I don't expect anything from you personally, everything is clear with you
                    hi
  • Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 17 January 2021 16: 18
    -1
    ))) Well, yes, let them study and disassemble on the shelves and screws! In our time, for Russia, the sale of secrets to enemies occurs not only through "their spies", but also in such a "legal" way! Sadly, in general, to look at all this !!!
  • Semenov
    Semenov 17 January 2021 16: 49
    +14
    Ankara believes that the creation of such a site will allow both the preservation of the S-400 systems and return to the F-35 fighter program.

    They want to eat a fish and go for a ride in a boat ...
  • Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 17 January 2021 16: 50
    0
    The US says the S-400 purchased by Turkey pose a threat to the F-35 aircraft and to NATO's defensive capabilities in general.

    If this is not a threat to NATO-US, then to whom?
    For Russia ? But she sold the export version, which is not dangerous ...
    And Erdogan, presumably, remembered the coup attempt and the attempted assassination of the Americans for the rest of his life ...
    And their UAVs are cooler than bayraktars, and now, how can you sunbathe in the sun ..?
    All that remains is to show the Yankees the real capabilities of the S-400, so that they do not meddle, and at the same time buy another Russian "Triumph" to calm the United States ...
  • APASUS
    APASUS 17 January 2021 16: 51
    +1
    Well done, the Turks, they want to keep the S-400 and release the F-35. What can I say that they will succeed. Turkey is too significant a partner for the United States
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 17 January 2021 17: 53
      -2
      Quote: APASUS
      Something to tell me that they will succeed.

      is not a fact. now all the trump cards for the F-35 are in the USA. money has already been invested in the project, the planes have been paid for, and the planes themselves are in the USA. at the same time, for Turkey, the issue of protecting its airspace, including from NATO aircraft, is critical.
      Quote: APASUS
      Turkey is too significant a partner for the United States

      rather, a sales market, and this is no longer quite true. the Turks are increasingly focusing on their own weapons. it is clear that the United States is waging wild competition in the arms market using outright blackmail, but will this yield any results?
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 18 January 2021 08: 07
        0
        Quote: SanichSan
        is not a fact. now all the trump cards for the F-35 are in the USA. ...

        What are these trump cards? The United States cannot increase the production of the F-35 and are beginning to shift in terms of timing. If Turkey also refuses to produce components, then the Americans will have a hard time.
        Quote: SanichSan
        rather, a sales market, and this is no longer quite true. the Turks are increasingly focusing on their own weapons. it is clear that the United States is waging wild competition in the arms market using outright blackmail, but will this yield any results?

        Turkey is significant not as a buyer of American weapons, but as a strategic partner in NATO. Turkey's location allows it to control the entire Mediterranean and part of the Middle East, the Caucasus
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 18 January 2021 16: 55
          0
          Quote: APASUS
          What are these trump cards? The United States cannot increase the production of the F-35 and the timing is beginning to shift. If Turkey also refuses to produce components, then the Americans will have a hard time.

          it's not about production. with this, just everything is clear. the Turks will produce and the US will buy. this is, on the one hand, money that Turkey really needs, and on the other hand, components that the United States really needs. dances around ready-made aircraft that have already been paid for by Turkey, but confiscated by the United States.
          Quote: APASUS
          Turkey is significant not as a buyer of American weapons, but as a strategic partner in NATO. Turkey's location allows it to control the entire Mediterranean and part of the Middle East, the Caucasus

          Of course, this also matters, but the Pentagon began to talk about leaving Inzherlik. if I am not mistaken the Germans and the French have already folded from there. after the coup, the sultan kozlanul, as there in the famous cartoon "started to play a coin (contacted the Russians) and rolled." It became difficult for NATO in general, and the United States in particular, to do business with him ... he had some interests of his own, which is unacceptable within NATO. with the Turks there is already a complete babrdak .. do you remember this story with the supply of weapons to the Kurds and the recognition of Kurdistan? but how did the French almost get into a fight with the Turks because of the Greeks? so the region is of course strategically important but, in fact, is not controlled by NATO request
  • Usher
    Usher 17 January 2021 17: 15
    +1
    Either I'm stupid or something is wrong. How can an air defense system pose a threat to another air defense system in one country? Like how will the S-300 affect the S-400? POV systems can fight or what?
  • Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 17 January 2021 17: 31
    -1
    to confirm this, she proposes to create a joint Turkish-American group that would assess Russian air defense systems in terms of a potential threat to NATO air defense forces in

    What was to be expected, "earned a ruble, pumped a hundred"
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 17 January 2021 17: 35
    +2
    Predictably - tell me who your friend is ...
  • Cucumbers
    Cucumbers 17 January 2021 17: 48
    +1
    There were publications that the Turks could not debug the complexes. Ours offered help, they refused. It is not clear what they were targeting to whom. I have not seen the products, but most likely the critically-secret blocks are not collapsible or self-destructive when trying to disassemble them, but they will still receive some information. The developer's train of thought is important to them, and they will find specialists. The S-500 will be under threat, they are most likely on the same principles
  • sleeve
    sleeve 17 January 2021 17: 49
    -3
    Coolest commercial move. One division was sold and the F35 program was practically reset. Give me a commission! And then the sale of the C400. True, we do not know the real conclusions. Who will advertise such a miracle?
  • Alien From
    Alien From 17 January 2021 18: 02
    +1
    Yes, no one in the Turks even doubted ...
  • DominickS
    DominickS 17 January 2021 18: 11
    0
    Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    But practically all sane people talked about this! Here is the "drain" of information about the complex and began, and even persuade!

    It was easily predictable that one way or another the Turks would try to leak information about the complex, but they sold it anyway, which means there was some point that outweighed the costs of losing secrets.

    The meaning was the same - "Money does not smell."
  • rocket757
    rocket757 17 January 2021 18: 17
    0
    Ankara is waiting for the new American president to take up his duties. Then Turkey will offer Joe Biden to form a commission to study the aspects of the influence of the Russian S-400 on the NATO air defense system.

    Why not try ... try not torture.
    From our side, how to look at it ??? No way, fellow traveler TEMPORARY, nobody, nothing, promised nobody!
    If anything, we will look at events from a different angle!
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 17 January 2021 18: 30
    +2
    Cavusoglu noted that Turkey is showing sincere efforts to improve relations with Washington and expects the same attitude from the American side.

    What was to be expected, sooner or later, it turned out earlier))) the Turks bent their backs in front of the new head of the White House and shot through the path. It is not clear what guided the selling of these air defense systems to Turkey, there was no common sense in this sale - the consequences are obvious.
  • huntsman650
    huntsman650 17 January 2021 22: 13
    +1
    It depends at what moment to turn on the radar))) clowns, and even their version is cut off a little))). I do not believe that all the trump cards were sold to the Turks)
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 18 January 2021 01: 31
    -2
    What was sold to Turkey, then one name S-400! No more ! The Russians will cut the branch on which it sits!
  • Free Island
    Free Island 18 January 2021 14: 11
    0
    What was required to prove - Erdogan widely parted his lips in front of the lord and master