"Equal in quality to other machines": Azerbaijani media about the imminent receipt of the first JF-17 aircraft

During the recent Karabakh war, Pakistan became one of the few countries that openly supported the offensive campaign of the Azerbaijani army. Apparently, this position of Islamabad became the basis for a sharp rapprochement between the two countries.

In recent weeks, there have been constant contacts between the military-political leadership of the two states. At the expert level, the discussion is about the possible creation of the Ankara-Baku-Islamabad axis. Against this background, information on the imminent receipt of Pakistani aircraft appeared on Azerbaijani resources.

The first JF-17 Block 3 fighter-bomber (2019 modification with AFAR KLJ-7A and wide-angle holographic display) will arrive in the country in February, according to the statements of the Azerbaijani Ministry of Defense. The second plane will be delivered approximately in 2022-2023. In total, 10 JF-21s will be handed over to Baku within 17 years as part of a barter deal - in exchange for oil.

This is a modern aircraft, equal in quality to similar machines in other countries.

- believes the portal AZERBAIJAN online.

JF-17 is the Pakistani designation for the FC-1 aircraft, developed jointly with China, based on the J-7, a "clone" of the Soviet front-line fighter MiG-21.

Comments

[Asad]

Something didn’t make me happy with this news in the morning, it’s not even about the airplanes, but about this “bunch of” partners!

[Profiler]

JF-17 is the Pakistani designation for the FC-1 aircraft, developed jointly with China, based on the J-7, a "clone" of the Soviet front-line fighter MiG-21.

It should be noted that nothing remained of the J-7, and even more so of the MiG-21, in the form of the JF-17 / FC-1.
At least in the glider.

Chinese clone MiG-21 in the air

[Mavrikiy]

It should be noted that nothing remained of the J-7, and even more so of the MiG-21, in the form of the JF-17 / FC-1.
At least in the glider.

I agree. Where is the handsome MIG and where are the disposable freaks?

Originally conceived in Chengdu as a further development of the F-7, the new fighter eventually acquired a completely new look. With the Chinese clones of the MiG-21, it is in fact related only to similar dimensions (aircraft length - 14 m, wingspan - 8,5 m, wing area - 24 m2) and mass (empty aircraft weighs 6450 kg, normal takeoff weight is 9100 kg, and the maximum - 12 kg), and the ventral cannon mount of 400 mm caliber.

(VO20 April 2013)

[And Makarov]

By the way, the JF-17 uses Russian RD-93 engines.

[K-612-O]

So what else, the Chinese have reworked only the front part and the cockpit, but in fact the glider itself, as it was from 21bis, remained

[OgnennyiKotik]

It is still necessary to find something in common.

[K-612-O]

There are just a lot in common, why not deeply modify an extremely successful aircraft

[OgnennyiKotik]

It is a pity that we did not take this path. We made an obviously unnecessary MiG-29, in the presence of the Su-27. If they made an aircraft a la JF-17, they would still be stamped and surpassed in the number of F-16s.

[Alex777]

One engine in peacetime is cheaper to operate.
Two engines - in wartime, an additional chance for the pilot to return home.
So choose what is more important.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Theory is good, in practice the F-16 is the most widespread, and the MiG-29 is the most downed fighter of the 4th generation.

[Alex777]

The MiG-29 is the most downed fighter of the 4th generation.

Prove about the MiG-29.

[V.I.P.]

Read about the war between two African countries. In service with one MiG-29, the second has Su-27. Here there is the number of battles, the number of aircraft in each battle, which and how many aircraft were shot down)))). Very interesting. If you are reluctant to look, then Migi were always beaten, even with the numerical superiority ...

[Petro_tut]

The MiG-29 is the most downed fighter of the 4th generation.

And the pilots who shot down "whose" were they?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Alex777

One engine in peacetime is cheaper to operate.
Two engines - in wartime, an additional chance for the pilot to return home.
So choose what is more important.

It is more important to complete the task. This is the army, son! (C) and the cheaper the better.

[Cympak]

Quote: Doliva63

Quote: Alex777

One engine in peacetime is cheaper to operate.
Two engines - in wartime, an additional chance for the pilot to return home.
So choose what is more important.

It is more important to complete the task. This is the army, son! (C) and the cheaper the better.

Not necessary. It is very important not only the possibility of mass production of the vehicle, but also a trained crew. For example, the Japanese had a massive, cheap A6M Zero, but it was extremely vulnerable, and even the bushido code that did not allow pilots to evade superior enemy forces. As a result, the Japanese quickly lost their highly trained pilots. The shortage of good pilots is considered one of the reasons for Japan's defeat in WWII.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Cympak

Quote: Doliva63

Quote: Alex777

One engine in peacetime is cheaper to operate.
Two engines - in wartime, an additional chance for the pilot to return home.
So choose what is more important.

It is more important to complete the task. This is the army, son! (C) and the cheaper the better.

Not necessary. It is very important not only the possibility of mass production of the vehicle, but also a trained crew. For example, the Japanese had a massive, cheap A6M Zero, but it was extremely vulnerable, and even the bushido code that did not allow pilots to evade superior enemy forces. As a result, the Japanese quickly lost their highly trained pilots. The shortage of good pilots is considered one of the reasons for Japan's defeat in WWII.

I have never delved into Japanese problems, but I remember about our Yak-1, for example. And how the Yak-3 grew out of it. Cheap and effective. And yes, in that war, the shortage of pilots did not solve anything - the war was decided on the ground, the Air Force was only one of the participants in the process, far from the most important.

[smoltish]

With modern means of destruction, two engines do not greatly increase the chances of escape.

[Petro_tut]

We made an obviously unnecessary MiG-29, in the presence of the Su-27.

My dear, these are planes for different purposes, they complemented each other in the Soviet Army

[Cympak]

When the Su-27 appeared, the MiG-29 was already in mass production. The problem is that a fundamental decision was made (in my opinion, erroneous) to refuse to develop promising single-engine combat aircraft.

[OgnennyiKotik]

They appeared almost simultaneously, the difference is 1-2 years maximum. Therefore, the decision to launch two similar machines is surprising.

[Cympak]

The initial prototype of the Su-27 - T-10, which is called "did not take off": could not achieve the desired characteristics. After alteration and long-term refinement in 1985, the Su-27 began to enter the troops for trial operation, and was adopted only in 1990. The MiG-29 began to enter the troops in 1983 and was put into service in 1987. In addition, the MiG-29 was actively exported almost immediately, both to the countries of the Warsaw Pact (Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, the GDR), and to others countries (Iraq, Syria, India, Iraq, Syria, Yugoslavia, DPRK, Eritrea, Sudan ...).

[NEOZ]

Quote: Cympak

a fundamental decision was made (in my opinion, erroneous) to refuse to develop promising single-engine combat aircraft.

justify your opinion?

[NEOZ]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

It is a pity that we did not take this path.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Made an obviously unnecessary MiG-29

are you crazy put an equal sign between aircraft of DIFFERENT generations !!!!!

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

If they made an aircraft a la JF-17, they would still be stamped and surpassed in the number of F-16s.

of course not!
ZhF17 is a 3rd generation fighter !!!!! and F16 fighter of the 4th generation !!!!
ps
the number of fighters in the VKS does not depend on the cost of the machines, but depends on the needs of the VKS !!!!!! in other words: if now there are 1000 aircraft on the wing, then when a cheap aircraft appears (4 times) does not mean an increase to 4000 sides !!!!!!

[Pilat2009]

Quote: NEOZ

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

It is a pity that we did not take this path.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Made an obviously unnecessary MiG-29

are you crazy put an equal sign between aircraft of DIFFERENT generations !!!!!

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

If they made an aircraft a la JF-17, they would still be stamped and surpassed in the number of F-16s.

of course not!
ZhF17 is a 3rd generation fighter !!!!! and F16 fighter of the 4th generation !!!!
ps
the number of fighters in the VKS does not depend on the cost of the machines, but depends on the needs of the VKS !!!!!! in other words: if now there are 1000 aircraft on the wing, then when a cheap aircraft appears (4 times) does not mean an increase to 4000 sides !!!!!!

That's right, just the money saved will go to something else, for example, R&D. There is never a lot of money

[aleks26]

Quote: Pilat2009

for example, for R&D. money is never too much

Exactly, how many did not single out, everything is like a precipice!

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: K-612-O

There are just a lot in common

And what exactly is common?

[Cympak]

The layout of the Su-27 and MiG-29 is the same:
Normal aerodynamic configuration with an integral layout, load-bearing fuselage, smoothly mating with trapezoidal wing roots, two-keel vertical tail. Two engines are installed in insulated engine nacelles; the main air intakes of the engines are located under the center section.
After the failure with the original T-10, the future Su-27 was radically redesigned. In fact, the layout of the MiG-29 was copied.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Cympak

The layout of the Su-27 and MiG-29 is the same:

I asked what you saw in common with the MiG-21 and JF-17, and you are talking about the MiG-29 and Su-27. I know that the MiG-29 and Su-27 are similar and even developed almost jointly.

[NEOZ]

the engine and the fuselage ... the influxes were added to the MIG21bis, the air intakes were moved, the wing area increased ... everything ... it turned out ZhF17 ...

[The eye of the crying]

His engine is from the MiG-29. The wing, as you said yourself, is new. And the fuselage ... well, yes, round in cross section. It proves everything.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Eye of the Crying

His engine is from the MiG-29.

Currently, several engine modifications have been created with a lower arrangement of the box of engine units (RD-33N, RD-93, SMR-95) for single-engine fighters including the MiG-21, Mirage III, Mirage F-1, etc.

[The eye of the crying]

The RD-33 was created for the MiG-29. And if it could be used in the Mirage, this is not a reason to say that the JF-17 is a copy of the Mirage. Although it really looks like the Mirage F1.

[NEOZ]

if you put RD21 in MIG93, will it cease to be MIG21m?
What are you arguing about?
the flight characteristics of the ZhF17 are comparable to the MIG21bis ... the third generation fighter.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: NEOZ

What are you arguing about?

I would like to know what the MiG-21 and JF-17 have in common. It seems clear that their engines and wings (and air intakes) are different. So what do they have in common?

[Rome]

The Chinese reworked the MIG21 to install a radar for the use of medium-range missiles from this work it turned out JF-17, I don't know what was left of MIG21, but at the heart of the project the Chinese themselves spoke J-7 (MIG21). Yes, according to the drawings, the nose has been radically redesigned, and the rest of the elements have been modified based on aerodynamics. Mig's contours are easy to guess

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Eroma

what is left of MiG21 I don’t know

I see. Thanks.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Eye of the Crying

And if it could be used in the Mirage, this is not a reason to say that the JF-17 is a copy of the Mirage.

Do you think the YAK130, M346 and L15 can be considered one aircraft or not?
I now think that this is the same plane ...

[The eye of the crying]

Yak-130 and M-346 - yes, you can. I don't know anything about the L-15. But the question is about the MiG-21 and JF-17.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Eye of the Crying

Yak-130 and M-346 - yes

so the engines are different !!!!!

Quote: Eye of the Crying

I don't know anything about the L-15.

Wikipedia to the rescue

Quote: Eye of the Crying

But the question about the MiG-21 and JF-17

they are similar in layout and performance characteristics (subject to changes)
I think in ZhF17 spare parts from MIG21 are suitable!
MIG21I also has different wings ... but it's still MIG21

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: NEOZ

Yak-130 and M-346 - yes

so the engines are different !!!!!

It cannot be that you do not know the history of the development of this aircraft. It seems to me that you are clowning.

Quote: NEOZ

But the question about the MiG-21 and JF-17

they are similar in layout and performance characteristics (subject to changes)

And, the layout. Earnestly.

Quote: NEOZ

I think in ZhF17 spare parts from MIG21 are suitable!

Do you think? Okay.

Quote: NEOZ

MIG21I also has different wings ... but it's still MIG21

Engines, air intakes, avionics, radar - also different? Clear.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Eye of the Crying

Engines, air intakes, avionics, radar - also different? Clear.

A further development of the line of the Chinese MiG-21 - the front-line fighter J-7 - was the FC-1 light multipurpose aircraft.
Therefore, it was quite natural to conclude an agreement with the Grumman firm on October 21, 1988, providing for the provision of technical assistance to the Chinese side in the development of an improved CATIC Super-7 fighter. The new aircraft was a deep modernization of the J-7 fighter, from which it differed in lateral non-adjustable air inlet entrances, an enlarged wing with slats and overhangs, a new cockpit canopy providing improved visibility, a gargrot with an overhead fuel tank, a single filling unit, an emergency brake hook, a vertical plumage of increased area, chassis with wheels of larger diameter and steerable front wheel.
The program was funded in part by Pakistan, which was seen as the main potential importer of the Super-7.
In 1991, the design bureau of SAS in Chengdu began designing the FC-1 aircraft, which is a logical continuation of the Super-7 concept. This time, the main partner of the Chinese was the Russian design bureau. A.I. Mikoyan.
A version of the aircraft for the Pakistani Air Force was designated JF-17 Thunder.
In other words, the JF-17 Thunder is a deeply modernized MiG21bis ...

[The eye of the crying]

Now everything is clear: the JF-17 is the MiG-21, because the Russian-language Wikipedia says "deep modernization deep modernization". The only pity is that Wikipedia does not indicate that the JF-17 still has a new engine, radar, and weapon.

[NEOZ]

Quote: A Makarov

By the way, the JF-17 uses Russian RD-93 engines.

in this case, the deal has been agreed with Moscow! since when selling RD93, Azerbaijan is in the end-user certificate !!!!

[alexmach]

Come on, you have nothing left. Triangular wing, the same photo of the tail and keel. The air intakes have changed, a place has appeared in the nose under the radar, the rest seems to be very similar in appearance.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: alexmach

Triangular wing

The wing is obviously new - of a different shape and with influxes.

Quote: alexmach

the same photo of the tail and keel

Why so obviously lie? The picture above is shown.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Eye of the Crying

The wing is obviously new - of a different shape and with influxes.

a larger wing for use on shorter runways.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: NEOZ

enlarged wing

And also with influxes. Those. this is a new wing.

[OgnennyiKotik]

For me, it has more of the F-5

[TermNachTer]

This is all from the category of good intentions. When it comes to real deeds, even Allah does not know)))

[rotmistr60]

Pakistan became one of the few countries that openly supported the offensive campaign of the Azerbaijani army

I remember Pakistan openly supported the Afghan mujahideen fighting the Soviet group (training camps, weapons transit, instructors, etc.).

At the expert level, we are talking about the possible creation axis Ankara - Baku - Islamabad

I wonder who will be "friends" against?

[Eugene-Eugene]

The main thing is to put together a team, but there is a goal

[Asad]

An inner voice tells what is against Russia!

[Petro_tut]

An inner voice tells what is against Russia!

Most likely, although Pakistan is conducting joint exercises with the Russian Federation

[Profiler]

Quote: rotmistr60

I remember Pakistan openly supported the Afghan mujahideen fighting the Soviet group (training camps, weapons transit, instructors, etc.).
.......... I wonder who will be "friends" against?

During the Afghan war of 1979-89, Islamabad, hosting dushman camps, acted at the behest and with funding from Washington.

And now, they will "be friends" against whoever they point out from across the ocean, even in spite of the position of the PRC.

[carstorm 11]

Not at all. Pakistan has had an open enmity with them for a long time. There is no one to point out from across the ocean

[unknown]

As directed and financed by China.

[minus]

Once upon a time this "axis" cut into the ears. Analogies come to mind ... Axis Germany-Italy-Japan ... In addition to this, the Nazi, other axes do not come to mind. A notable analogy, however.

[unknown]

Still, our main adversaries in the Afghan war were not the United States, but China, with whom we quarreled thanks to Nikita Khrushchev. And Pakistan was China's zone of influence.

[72jora72]

I remember Pakistan openly supported the Afghan mujahideen fighting the Soviet group (training camps, weapons transit, instructors, etc.)

I remember the Majahideen and China openly supported, and much more seriously than Pakistan (most of all instructors were sent, "katyushas" were supplied to the spirits). Japan invested a lot of money through paks in the war, as well as Egypt, Turkey, Arabia, UAE, Qatar, the whole Western Europe, USA, Canada .......

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: 72jora72

I remember the Majahideen and China openly supported, and much more seriously than Pakistan

I would say more, China has supplied more weapons and instructors than all Western countries combined. Almost all small arms, machine guns, RPGs, mortars, rockets, etc.

[Petro_tut]

Almost all small arms

And that's why the Chinese Kalash costs $ 200 in Afghanistan and the USSR-vsky $ 2000?

[TermNachTer]

There was information that Pak pilots fly Turkish F - 16s, because Erdogan "cleaned" his own well)))

[Thrifty]

So a competitor to our "Rosoboronexport" drew up, with a semi-Chinese flying machine. Dumping will be as a matter of course, in order to move Russia in the arms market of Azerbaijan.

[Grits]

Quote: Thrifty

in order to move Russia in the arms market of Azerbaijan.

If Russia does not start developing and producing light, single-engine, inexpensive fighters, then Russia will soon be pushed away from everywhere. Even such "developed countries" are already bypassing us

[Thrifty]

Grits - We understand this, but those who are in charge of the defense industry clearly do not want to see anything beyond their own noses. We are trying to present medium-sized MiG29-35s as lightweight to the world, although the same Swedes and the French sell single-engine aircraft on the world arms market well! And we are not in this market segment!

[apro]

Quote: Thrifty

And we are not in this market segment!

Here is the answer to your lamentations ...

[Thrifty]

apro - do not judge others by yourself

[apro]

Quote: Thrifty

apro - do not judge others by yourself

But how did the exclamations disappear ... the Gibbs are removed? That is, they ask from the market ... if you don't do anything .. then nothing and no, and the Wishlist must be weighed against the possibilities.

[user1212]

Quote: Thrifty

French single-engine aircraft in the world arms market sell well!

Which ones?

[Thrifty]

user 1212-actually I wrote about single-engine airplanes, if you can read! !!

[Chilean Abalon]

What single-engine planes do the French sell ??

[alexmach]

The French do not sell or produce single-engine fighters.

And we are not in this market segment!

And this is quite natural. And there is no and cannot be. Who will buy weapons that are not in service with the manufacturer's army? And in Russia it has long been decided that single-engine aircraft are not needed, and light MFIs are also not particularly favored, for which there are reasons. And so with those developments that are being conducted Russia can hardly cope with the real rearmament of the Aerospace Forces. And to develop something exclusively for export - there are no resources simply. It would be another matter if this technique did find its place in the Russian army ..

[Profiler]

Quote: Thrifty

we are not in this market segment!

What should we do there when we don't have our own light single-engine fighter?

[Thrifty]

The profiler is bad that we don't have such an aircraft, because it will be cheaper in operation than a twin-engine one, and a competitor to the same flu and Chinese j from our side is also a profit to the country!

[K-612-O]

Influenza that does not really go around the world, and the Rafale is twin-engine. The last successful single-engine aircraft after the 21st, only the Falcon.

[dauria]

Influenza that doesn't go well in the world

Great car .. But it was not necessary to climb into the clearing of the USA with their F-16. Contracts were concluded and ... canceled or frozen. Switzerland, Brazil, Bulgaria. Competition is fair, as long as it does not concern the "glavnyuk".

[carstorm 11]

And what's the point in that? Drive yards of money? We have our own niche and it just won't work to expand it.

[Grits]

Quote: carstorm 11

And what's the point in that? Drive yards of money? We have our own niche and it just won't work to expand it.

These lards of money need to be thrown in for two main purposes.
1. Having your own light front-line fighter
2. The possibility of selling it abroad for much more serious lards of money.
I still do not take into account the development of science, the design school, the workload of hundreds of enterprises and the employment of thousands of our citizens.

[Zaurbek]

Just look at the fighter market and who dominates it.

[user1212]

Quote: Gritsa

light single-engine inexpensive fighters

Name at least one such. Saab seems to be> 60 million (according to a failed Bulgarian contract and this is for C / D), it can hardly be called inexpensive. And the "cost of ownership" for any small-scale aircraft ... add here the Americans' love for sanctions with or without (and the engine is from F18) and buying a gripena doesn't seem like such a good idea anymore. If a country is in NATO, then it is possible, but why? After all, the US aviation will hide itself, even if he called, at least not

[Zaurbek]

Taiwanese, Korean, American TCB ..... Tejas.

[K-612-O]

Do you think China is a "developed" country? In Pakistan, in fact, a screwdriver assembly has been established. And whatever one may say J-17, with the 29th is not worth it. And for Baku, this will do, too, not on the scale of the Air Force.

[Winnie76]

Quote: Gritsa

If Russia does not start developing and producing light single-engine inexpensive fighters,

And at the same time, start training "light" and "inexpensive" pilots and rent them around the world for big bucks.
But seriously, such a beast as a `` lightweight single-engine inexpensive fighter '' does not exist in nature. If we are talking about Gripen - this is 50 million, if about JF17 - this is Mig-21, TCB - not to offer (remember about pilots)

[apro]

Quote: Thrifty

So a competitor to our "Rosoboronexport" drew up, with a semi-Chinese flying machine.

And this organization has something to offer ???

[Zaurbek]

We have nothing ..... although we have everything for this. Paradox. Only AFAR is missing. And this segment, if we mean Pakistan and India, should be large. There are also TCB Korean, Taiwan, American and Grippen. But they are all with American turbojet engines and systems.

[apro]

Quote: Zaurbek

We have nothing ..... although we have everything for this.

The great Russian paradox ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Zaurbek

We have nothing ..... although we have everything for this. Paradox.

Straight to the point.

[Kerensky]

Dumping will be as a matter of course, in order to move Russia in the arms market of Azerbaijan.

Have you read the article? They change planes for oil. What should we do in this market?

[donavi49]

Well, these Thunder are not only going to Azerbaijan. To Myanmar

To Nigeria

By the way, in the new operation of Nigeria against BokoHaram, they are already taking part in combat missions. Together with other new things.


Among the interesting things are outdated in China, unpretentious a la gazelles with an additional support axis, made by Howitzer. Just what you need for a quick war and fire raids.

[K-612-O]

In Nigeria, the UBS is Italian, in the photo, an analogue of our Yak, which does not have a radar, and in Myanmar, again, the Chinese are driving the plane for their own credit, this is actually their province

[Yeraz]

Quote: Thrifty

Dumping will be as a matter of course, in order to move Russia in the arms market of Azerbaijan.

Russia itself is to blame. For many years Azerbaijan offered to buy aircraft from Russia, but refused.
the USA produced the F-16 wanted, also a refusal.
The Swedes also wanted to refuse Gripen. There is no need to talk about the French. Well, brothers of the Armenians, do not be surprised that the Ally in the person of Pakistan has come and sells a Chinese plane. These neither diaspora, nor religion, in principle, nothing binds with the Armenians. More Italians training M -346 were sold, but here it is more in the economic plane, in Europe the largest buyer of oil and gas from Azerbaijan is Italians.
By the way, the Iskander story was the same, the Belarusians and the Chinese did not want to sell their Polonaise and Israel sold their Laura.

[AlexeyEg]

Refusal to observe the balance of power .. so that the war would not break out again. But the Turks with their drones destroyed that balance.

[Yeraz]

Quote: AlexeyEg

Refusal to observe the balance of power .. so that the war would not break out again. But the Turks with their drones destroyed that balance.

The advantage of Armenia in its positions on the tops of the mountains and the presence of Azerbaijani troops at the bottom allowed the Armenians to hold back a large number of Azerbaijani forces with small forces. The air force would reduce this advantage, Turkey partially replaced this UAV, modernizing ammunition for the SU-25. Azerbaijan's F-16 would have had fewer casualties from Azerbaijan.

[Sasha from Uralmash]

Yes, a dog with him with iron! That against whom they will be forced to be friends? This is serious!

[Zaurbek]

Against anyone ... they will dominate the Transcaucasus. They have money, there will be power ...

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Zaurbek

They have money, they will have strength ...

It's not for long. The peak of oil production in Azerbaijan has passed. 10 years ago. The decline is already 30% compared to the peak of production. There is a similar picture with gas. Recession is not so severe, but it is there and growing. And taking into account the growth of the population (read more and more eaters and less and less pie), the country's GDP is formed almost half of oil and gas. and a complete failure to establish at least something not related to the cycle - pumped out / sold .... "They have money" will become history, and "they have no money" by modernity, in a fairly short time.

[Yeraz]

Quote: Lannan Shi

And taking into account the growth of the population (read more and more eaters and less and less pie), the country's GDP is formed almost half of oil and gas. and a complete failure to establish at least something not related to the cycle - pumped out / sold .... "They have money" will become history, and "they have no money" by modernity, in a fairly short time.

Yes, the Armenians have been telling these tales for more than 10 years, and the result is known to everyone. Only Azerbaijan had 20% of the lands under the occupation of Armenians, which they plundered. But now Azerbaijan has them with all their resources, plus the front-line lands will fully heal, which also could not full work due to the shelling at the front, so everything will be fine.

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Yeraz

Yes, Armenians have been telling these tales for more than 10 years

Kind. Figures about the decline in production and the structure of GDP are quite the data of the official baku. If Aliyev and his entourage are Armenians, and their data are fairy tales ... Then yes, you are certainly right.

Quote: Yeraz

and everyone knows the result

Ugums. For example, the result of the rubber rush in Brazil. 40 years of prosperity. I bought battleships in batches. At a certain point, even RIF overtook. And the result ... Well, yes, everyone knows it. Almost a century of complete devastation.

Quote: Yeraz

Only Azerbaijan had 20% of the land under the occupation of Armenians, which they plundered

Laponka. S.kh, in the structure of gdp of azerbaijan, and does not reach 4%. And this is taking into account the fact that we are not talking about mountain valleys and foothills, which are not very suitable for grazing sheep, but about the fertile lands of the subtropics.

Quote: Yeraz

But now Azerbaijan has them with all its resources,

Ugums. From the resources there - clean mountain air. But so far it is problematic for them to bargain.

Quote: Yeraz

, plus the front-line lands will fully heal,

Can you imagine the price of the question? I understand, no, not even remotely. Are you able to realize how much it costs just to capitalize a road? Don't build, just renovate? So, enlightenment for. To lay out the canvas, in pieces of 1 dollar, instead of repair, it will be much cheaper. Against the background of almost 10 years of decline in GDP ... Azerbaijan has acquired such a problem for itself ...

Quote: Yeraz

Therefore, everything will be fine.

Wait and see. But the fact that Azerbaijan, 10 years ago, very cheerfully buying up modern equipment, switched to buying up the equipment designed in the 50s of the last century, and slightly polished 20 years ago ... It already hints that not everything is so sweet in the Baku khanate

[Yeraz]

Quote: Lannan Shi

Kind. Figures about the decline in production and the structure of GDP are quite the data of the official baku.

there is a recession, but it is not over from the series.

Quote: Lannan Shi

Ugums. From the resources there - clean mountain air. But so far it is problematic for them to bargain.

there is not only clean mountain air. There are arable lands and gardens where the Armenians did their wine and everything else. A bunch of hydroelectric power plants, both built and building with Iran, and this is energy, plus many deposits of Gold, copper and everything else. This is not desert land to invest in zero.

Quote: Lannan Shi

Can you imagine the price of the question? I understand, no, not even remotely. Are you able to realize how much it costs just to capitalize a road? Don't build, just renovate? So, enlightenment for. To lay out the canvas, in pieces of 1 dollar, instead of repair, it will be much cheaper. Against the background of almost 10 years of decline in GDP ... Azerbaijan has acquired such a problem for itself ...

10-15 billion is the price of the issue. Yes, I know how many kilometers of road in Azerbaijan it costs.
Azerbaijan allocated huge money to support refugees, free electricity, gas, training and many other social packages from the state. All this money is now released in 3 years and will be sent to Karabakh.
Plus, not all residents of Karabakh are homeless who need to build houses.
For example, now there is a registration of who will live in Hadrut and registration concerns Only Migrants from Armenia, i.e. Armenian Azerbaijanis, and although there are a lot of houses there that are not damaged, we ourselves are able to invest and build a house there.

Quote: Lannan Shi

But the fact that Azerbaijan, 10 years ago, very cheerfully buying up modern equipment, switched to buying up the equipment designed in the 50s of the last century, and slightly polished 20 years ago ... It already hints that not everything is so sweet in the Baku khanate

No, this is because they don’t sell anything else on the market! For the army, everything in the required quantity was purchased anyway. The weak side was the Air Force and this problem was partially solved by the UAV, partially by smart ammunition for the SU-25. And for the coming years of investments the purchase of new weapons is not particularly needed, except for the air segment again, and Azerbaijan's reserve is 50 billion, so that all the norms

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Yeraz

It will take a very long time to end.

It’s more accessible ... The more oil is pumped out, the more expensive is the pumping out of the rest. And the moment when it will be simply unprofitable to download it is not far off.

Quote: Yeraz

There are arable lands and gardens

Quote: Yeraz

A bunch of hydroelectric power plants, both built and under construction

Quote: Yeraz

many deposits of Gold, copper and everything else

Well, what can I say? Just advise. Do not overuse mind-expanding drugs.

Quote: Yeraz

Azerbaijan allocated huge money to support refugees,

Laponka. They fled from there for more than a quarter of a century. This is the second generation of the backbone dwellers growing up. And as practice shows, it is too late to treat this.

Quote: Yeraz

This is because the other is not stupidly SOLD on the market!

Let me tell you a terrible secret. Everyone sells. From supertukano to generation 4+. With the fifth a little more complicated, but even then .... The question of the urgency of desire. And finance. But when MIG - 21 is purchased, (which Stalin did not live up to quite a bit), only a little modified with a sledgehammer .... As if the opinion suggests itself that everything is fine with desire, but with finances, a complete priest.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Lannan Shi

But when MIG - 21 is purchased, (to which Stalin did not live quite a bit), only a little modified with a sledgehammer ...

Tell us what the JF-17 and the MiG-21 have in common?

[Petro_tut]

For example, now there is a registration of who will live in Hadrut and the registration concerns Only Migrants from Armenia, i.e. Armenian Azerbaijanis, and although there are a lot of houses there are not damaged,

Do you know what happens for taking away private property from individuals? Arzeybadzhan does not recognize the ECHR? Then get ready for a bunch of lawsuits and the Hague tribunal ...

[Bilal]

Lannan Shi Today, 13:06 AM


It's not for long. The peak of oil production in Azerbaijan has passed. 10 years ago. The decline is already 30% compared to the peak of production. With gas, a similar picture. Recession is not so severe, but it is there and growing. And taking into account population growth (read more and more eaters and less and less pie), the country's GDP is formed almost half of oil and gas. and a complete failure to establish at least something not related to the cycle - pumped out / sold .... "They have money" will become history, and "they have no money" by modernity, in a fairly short time. yes

Just the same with gas, everything is fine ... It's not about the passed peak ... In our countries, the main thing is how many% of the state go to the private and wide pockets of those in power ...))))

[Bilal]

Sasha s Uralmash (Alexander) Today, 07:09
Yes, a dog with him with iron! That against whom they will be forced to be friends? This is serious!

Against Iran ... Although not openly.

[And Makarov]

Pakistan became one of the few countries that openly supported the offensive campaign of the Azerbaijani army

Not surprising. Both countries are Muslim.

[bk0010]

Quote: A Makarov

Not surprising. Both countries are Muslim.

Not an argument: Muslims now cut each other only on the way (CA and Yemen, Iran with Iraq, etc.) and restore relations with Israel.

[And Makarov]

Quote: bk0010

Muslims now cut each other just on the way

It is truth too. But here there was a conflict with the Armenians - the choice is obvious.

[Yeraz]

Quote: A Makarov

Not surprising. Both countries are Muslim.

This is not the point at all. For example, Iran, he was for the Armenians. The UAE was for them. Only Pakistan and Afghanistan were openly for Azerbaijan from the Muslim countries. All the rest caught the silence or helped, as in the case of Iran and Lebanon and Syria.
It's just that Pakistan has had allied relations with Azerbaijan since independence. Pakistan is the only country in the world that does not recognize Armenia as a state. Even Turkey does, but Pakistan does not.

[Flooding]

Quote: Yeraz

Pakistan is the only country in the world that does not recognize Armenia as a state

Have you painted over territory on the world map?
A lot of mind is not necessary.

[Yeraz]

Quote: Flood

Have you painted over territory on the world map?
A lot of mind is not necessary.

Well, Russia and Azerbaijan do not recognize Kosovo, and the rest of Ossetia and Karabakh. So, you just don't pay attention to this point of attention and that's it.

[Flooding]

Quote: Yeraz

Well, Russia and Azerbaijan do not recognize Kosovo, and the rest Ossetia and Karabakh

You can not recognize Kosovo, considering this territory Serbian.
And this is true from a historical point of view.
But it doesn't work that way with Armenia.

[Petro_tut]

Iran, he was for the Armenians. The UAE was for them.

Did these states supply the Armenians with weapons during the war?

[Zaurbek]

Moreover, the share of Shiites is growing there

[Zaurbek]

Apparently, this position of Islamabad became the basis for a sharp rapprochement between the two countries.

They had no problems for a long time ... and there is no particular choice in this segment. Flu only, but the whole brain with democracy will have a price, like a spaceship. And then the turbojet engine - RD-93, and the entire range of weapons and AFAR.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Gripen and T-50 have American engines and they are more expensive. F-16 and F-35 in the same steppe. Aermacchi M-346 seems to have been ordered, but it seems that the deal did not take place. And there is nothing else on the market.
They simply do not need more powerful and advanced machines; theater performance is measured in tens of kilometers, maximum in hundreds. The Air Force needs to be updated, they are just physically old. And then a relatively modern and relevant fighter-bomber can use the range of weapons that they already have, the well-known and understandable RD-93. The choice is right for Azerbaijan from all sides.

[Zaurbek]

Aermacchi M-346 seemed to be ordered, but it looks like the deal did not take place

There are some in Azerbaijan ... I don't know everything or not everything under the contract. And China produces all analogs of KORR ammunition, fashionable and not so.

[Vadim_888]

All Gripens in service as of January 2014 are equipped with a turbofan engine Volvo RM12[i] [/ i] (now GKN Aerospace Engine Systems), a General Electric F404 derivative, powered by spacer plates; Changes include improved performance and reliability to meet safety criteria when using a single engine, as well as improved bird strike resistance. Several subsystems and components have also been redesigned to reduce maintenance requirements. Wikipedia site: wikichi.ru

[Bilal]

Aermacchi M-346 seemed to be ordered, but it looks like the deal did not take place

No, it doesn't look like it. The deal went through. 10 pieces have been in Azerbaijan for 2 years already. Plus, there are mutual intentions to produce this model in Azerbaijan. Negotiations are under way on the details of the agreement.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Don't you confuse? There is no information anywhere about this, only about the purchase agreement signed in February 2020.

[vitalian]

During the recent Karabakh war, Pakistan became one of the few countries that openly supported the offensive campaign

The spooks are raising their heads again ..?

[iouris]

I hardly recognize my brother Vasya.

[iouris]

Quote: "At the expert level, we are talking about the possible creation of the Ankara-Baku-Islamabad axis." End of quote.
Axis: Beijing - London. All the others are strung on this axis. (Wasp is such a big yellow flies).

[Vadim_888]

Have you decided to follow the Armenian path out of a desire to save money?
Buy a knock knock in a car seat?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Vadim_888

We decided to follow the Armenian path

Su-30 here-knock? Well, you give ...

[Vadim_888]

... Su-30 here-knock? Well you give

Sorry, where is he su 30?
By engines? The Pak has the only one to do with ours, in terms of combat load 3600 and Su 30 8000? According to avionics, there may be
This product is closer to the moment 29 than to the su 30

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Vadim_888

Sorry, where is he su 30?

Su-30 for Armenians. Azerbaijanis have just decided not to follow this path.

[decimalegio]

One of the greatest mistakes of the West and Russia is to stop producing weapons that can only be exported. The best buy would be a single-engine fighter that can be equipped at the customer's request. In the West, we only have f16 and gripen, but they cannot use Russian weapons, and this presents an obstacle to procurement for countries that have stocks of Russian missiles, bombs and ammunition. In Russia, single-engine fighters are not produced.

[Cympak]

By the way, the airplane is not bad. I tried his simulator at DCS World. Of course, the thrust is not enough and it is difficult for him to spin in close combat against 4th generation fighters. But as a drummer on the ground, he is gorgeous! There are Chinese counterparts of all modern ASP V-Z: satellite-guided gliding bombs, anti-ship missiles, laser ignorance bombs. NURSs with laser guidance - an analogue of American APKWS and much more.

[Pavel57]

Quote: Cympak

... The layout of the MiG-29 was actually copied.

And not vice versa?

[Pavel57]

Quote: Zaurbek

... And then the turbojet engine - RD-93, and the entire range of weapons and AFAR.

With one engine, it will not work to have better flight characteristics and load than the MiG-29, which have the same, but two.

[Zaurbek]

These are different models, different prices ... ... and taking into account the Chinese's AFAR, high-precision ammunition for work on the ground, anti-ship missiles (all this is not on the MiG29), the Chinese looks much better. And this is despite the fact that the new MiG 35 will not be bought for a very long time.

[Smirnov Sergey]

Azerbaijan has clearly decided to save money. They clearly understand that they will no longer engage in high-intensity battles. the basic task is completed - they liberated most of their territory. Directly, they hardly plan to take Nagorno-Karabakh by storm or massively use aviation on it. Therefore, it will be enough for them on the JF-17 to control their airspace and drop precision bombs on a tip from a drone, while staying outside the zone of object air defense. At the same time, our engines are on the JF-17 and export to third countries would not have been possible without our consent. The Chinese offered to install their engines, but Pakistan has so far refused this idea. Additionally, this is an indicator that countries of the 2nd ... 3rd echelons do not need very sophisticated twin-engine machines, and our designers should have prepared a similar single-engine machine for supply to such countries, especially since the reliability of the RD-33 and AL-31F engines is already 3000 .4000 hours, which will provide sufficient reliability

[Pavel57]

Quote: Zaurbek

and taking into account the AFAR from the Chinese,

Aircraft equipment now costs more than the airframe and engine.
Therefore, modern representatives of the MiG-29 and Su-27 families are within the same order.

[voronin]

Azerbaijan is popular at the moment. Many want to make friends.

[Karen Khoreev]

"Equal in quality to others" means - shit, of course, but for not having the best it will do ...

[Angivin]

Quote: Lannan Shi

Quote: Zaurbek

They have money, they will have strength ...

It's not for long. The peak of oil production in Azerbaijan has passed. 10 years ago. The decline is already 30% compared to the peak of production. With gas, a similar picture. Recession is not so severe, but it is there and growing.

You, nevertheless, wishful thinking. Like many Armenians, however.
Gas production in Azerbaijan is on the rise: in 2017 (17,8 billion cubic meters), in 2018 -19,0, in 2019 -24,3 (28% increase !!). https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/energy-economics/statistical-review/bp-stats-review-2020-full-report.pdf
The figures for 2020 have not yet been made public, but there is definitely a significant increase and will continue in the medium term.
Moreover, gas supplies to Europe began at the end of 2020. It would probably be illogical to start exporting it to Europe with a decline in gas production.
You give out statistics on Azerbaijan somehow negatively ..
And in terms of oil, despite a certain decline, production, with the commissioning of a new platform, is relatively stable for the near future.
Azerbaijan, with its reforms and development of the non-oil sector, together with 50 billion Baku gold reserves, has a solid reserve for many years.
The problems with the economic downturn, especially due to the pandemic, are obvious. And who doesn't have them?