The main topic of the Zapad-2021 exercise will be the fight against drones

The main theme of the strategic command and staff exercises (SKSHU) "West-2021" will be the fight against drones and cruise missiles. This was reported by the press service of the Western Military District.

The ZVO explained that units of the combined-arms army of the district will be involved in the Zapad-2021 command and control army, which, together with units of the Belarusian army, will work out the fight against cruise missiles and drones, taking into account the experience of recent military conflicts.

The main exercises of 2021 are planned to be held in a single concept against the background of the general operational and tactical situation. The experience of modern armed conflicts will also be taken into account. During the SKSHU "West-2021" special attention is planned to be paid to the fight against cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles

- said in a statement.

In addition, subdivisions of the Russian and Belarusian armies will work out fire and electronic effects on the enemy, the use of tactical airborne assault forces, a quick transition from one type of combat to another and the creation of a complex, dynamic situation, as well as other combat actions within the framework of assigned tasks.

The Russian-Belarusian strategic exercises West 2021 will be held in September 2021. The exercise plan was approved in October 2020 at the joint Russian-Belarusian collegium of the military departments of the two countries.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the situation on the border of the Union State remains turbulent due to NATO actions. The joint exercises will be aimed at strengthening the security of the Union State.

In the context of the current military-political situation in the region, as well as new challenges and threats (...) the Russian Ministry of Defense considers ensuring the military security of the Union State among its priority tasks

- the minister said.

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

To be honest, I have a bad idea of ​​a command and control system for the destruction of drones. Indeed, in my knowledge and understanding, staff exercises are exercises "on the map." That is, on the basis of practical developments, a defense is built, and the enemy is trying to break through it. But the two conflicts (Syria and Karabakh) show quite different results.

[figwam]

Modern drones and ammunition with an understandable ending were used against the Karabakh army of the 80-90 level, in Syria our electronic warfare and air defense systems successfully counteract all types of UAVs.

[donavi49]

The army is big. More than half of the brigades are equipped with exactly the same equipment as the NKR. Armor and Torah-M2 were seen from Zvezda and magazines in the red corner. Or one unit of the new system is equipped with them. As well as in Armenia - which dropped the case of both electronic warfare and Tor-M2. But it did not help.

[Cottodraton]

Firstly, what modern means of electronic warfare was there? I may be wrong, but the destroyed complex was not the first freshness ... Secondly, was the same TOR really capable of combat? Thirdly, there were no "Shells" and close in the NKR conflict, even the earliest, therefore it is not worth talking about their effectiveness, because this is no longer an analyst, but speculation and fortune-telling.
The same "Pantsir" also destroyed UAVs, for which there is the same video ... even somewhere on VO.
Another thing is that gentlemen Arabs and co. Love very long conversations ... they spotted the UAV from almost 20 km, then they talked nicely about something for a minute before launching ... if the guys are so carelessly fighting, then they have any the weapon will rust.

[nnm]

I repeat:
“I don’t know. I didn’t shoot and I can’t vouch for the reliability. All the same, it was not taken from a worthy primary source. But the results of countering UAVs in Syria are definitely on the face. And lancets shoot down, and bayraktars, and so on ...
So it's not worth portraying a UAV as invulnerable as a wunderwaffe "

[raw174]

Quote: nnm

So it's not worth portraying a UAV as invulnerable as a wunderwaffe "

It's not about invulnerability, but about their cheapness and mass character. A large flock of cheap BALA will be able to overcome air defense, simply by defusing, having suffered losses, of course, in my opinion, the emphasis should be on electronic warfare equipment, specifically in terms of countering UAVs.

[lopvlad]

Quote: raw174

It's not about invulnerability, but about their cheapness and mass character

one bayraktar drone without control systems costs $ 5 million and a set of 6 drones + control systems = $ 70 million.
For example, the Yak-130 aircraft for the Russian army costs 7.5 million dollars apiece.

[raw174]

Yes, but Bayraktar is not a cheap drone, for defusing air defense, as meshes, you can use cheaper crafts ...

[kytx]

here here
go to aliexpress, look at the price tag for a kit of a small drone
and then we watch a video from Syria where someone drops bombs from this drone on the enemy. very successful.
drone is very cheap and cheerful and most importantly in large quantities
Bayraktar is not a wunderwaffe of course
but what to do with the bloom of a swarm of small ones, apparently, no one knows

[lopvlad]

Quote: kytx

go to aliexpress, look at the price tag for a kit of a small drone

even a Chinese drone for fifty dollars is not able to take a load of more than 1kg, and this is not to mention its completely zero chance of breaking through even the most antediluvian REB.
This bogeyman about the fact that militants in Syria use drones assembled from parts and modules on aliexpress is spreading the west for the especially naive.

[kytx]

Well, they probably mount vidos in sonyivegas. Yeah

[lopvlad]

Quote: kytx

they vidos in sonivegas mount

They are not the first time to mount them; they even pass off photos from 10 years ago and from a completely different region of the world as modern ones.

[Dodikson]

so why hasn't Khmeimim been destroyed by these cheap drones from aliexpress?

[kytx]

because the answer will be tough

[Dodikson]

and a photo of a heap of fallen drones that still tried to break through, is it like editing in a Moscow film studio and this was not? because the answer will be tough

[kytx]

She was the place to be

[Dodikson]

UAV raids on Khmeimim are already in the dozens.
UAVs from aliexpress were planted with electronic warfare.

[donavi49]

Not only is Vulcan Phalangs, but also Arma3

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Cottodraton

Secondly, was the TOR exactly combat-ready?

Thor, at the time of his defeat by the Harpy, had not worked for a long time and folded the radar antenna, after which he crawled into the box and then the Harpy arrived exactly. Then they hit him in less than a minute with something else (they say Bayraktar got close and hit Mamley), which speaks for the fact that a whole operation was carried out against a single Thor.

[Dodikson]

UAB had 2 Harpies from Rook. Thor was empty, he shot BK and they tried to sniff at him.

[Dodikson]

Thor was combat-ready, and as they did on the specialized forums of blood to Azerbaijanis, he drank a lot and the UAV fired well, then when he fired off and they wanted to reload him, they finished him off, and so fiercely finished off (emnip 2 harpies and UAB from Rook) just because of the fact that he worked well.
and led him from a distance of more than 20 km.

[Cyril G ...]

Perhaps everything was so in any case, a fat minus to the Armenians for the organization. At least a bunch of a couple of cars + several TPMs would have thoroughly cleaned up the air in their area

[Dodikson]

They might not have TPM, but in the conditions of a shortage of equipment, they would have already reloaded them with their hands, there IMHO there was no flow of UAVs that would not be for several minutes, there the mass of a rocket is 170 kg, but a lot, but this is not the weight that cannot be raised by the forces of the republic.

[Cyril G ...]

There are cassettes of 4 missiles.

[Dodikson]

there, and one at a time, you can charge (like a crane and not a big one). cassette reload for speed.
just considering that the weight is not half a ton, then when you want to live the impossible and you can do it with your hands.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Cyril G ...

fat minus to the Armenians for the organization.

With any organization, the Armenians had no chance to stop the Azeris. There is too much difference between the armies.

[Cyril G ...]

In general, they were with adequate leaders and organization. Have you noticed the official data on the losses of the parties? For two months Felkishe Beobakhter of the Baku flood entertains us with videos where they were already filming at the end of the murder of individual soldiers of the Armenian army - but what is the result? about 3300-3500 dead Armenians and about 3000 dead Azerbaijanis.
My summary is that if the Armenians even bothered to prepare the defense according to the 1955 textbook on sapper, the losses of their opponents would have increased significantly.

[OgnennyiKotik]

With better organization, the Armenians could hold the territory longer and increase the number of Azeri losses, no more.
As for the losses, the Armenians themselves write and come to this figure:

On November 14 Mikael Minasyan accused Nikol Pashinyan on his Facebook page of hiding the number of our losses from the public. I will give a detailed quote from the post:

“And the fact is that 5 days ago, the SNB reported to Nikol that as of now we have:
2250 dead and trapped in the morgue
1400 dead and not yet taken to the morgue
1100 missing.
4750 confirmed deaths, which, according to the document, were reported to the RA Prime Minister.
4750 names, surnames and destinies.
4750 families broken from grief.
4750 extinguished hopes.
4750 is not a number, it is our body and blood. A whole generation. Big City".

Recently it became known that Anna Hakobyan is organizing New Year events for 4750 children aged 2-6 years, resettled from Nagorno-Karabakh to Armenia. Not 4700 and not 4800 gifts.

This is not a coincidence, but a cynical mockery.

And today the residents of Stepanakert were forced to dismantle the New Year tree and the tents installed at the initiative of the wife of the Armenian Prime Minister Anna Hakobyan.

@garnanmior

[Cyril G ...]

I don’t argue about losses - Vicki looked. means 5000 and 3000 people. We were playing something different on roller skates, right? You are wrong about the possibility of holding the territory. There was an opportunity - yes, the goals of the Armenian elite were clearly different, and the training of the army was simply disgusting ...

[poquello]

Quote: donavi49

As well as in Armenia - which dropped the case of both electronic warfare and Tor-M2. But it did not help.

and why are you showing pictures here? and even as if the Russian Federation participated there.
Armenians lost because of no intelligence, ineffective use of forces, no control, victory only due to the UAV - a beautiful myth with pictures too

[donavi49]

These are pictures and video that Shilki, Strela, Wasps are still the main air defense of the Brigades outside Moscow. And they will fight enemy UAVs on the march and deploy.

Even in Crimea this year.


And it is better to work out methods, ideas, instructions now. Than how the Armenians and Syrians improvise under the blows.

[poquello]

Quote: donavi49

And they will fight enemy UAVs on the march and deploy.

since when have only air defense been fighting for the sky?

Quote: donavi49

Than like the Armenians and Syrians improvise under the beats.

more about the Syrians

[donavi49]

When the Turks turned on the UAV, the Syrians had a very hard week. Then they pulled together a bunch of air defense and worked out some methods. In fact, the UAVs saved the Idlib gadyushnik from collapse within 10-15 days. Stopped the SAA offensive. They defended the M4 highway - which is still under the broads (it is on it that ATGMs are blown up by armored personnel carriers from joint patrols), despite the fact that, according to the agreement, it should have been made free of any armed formations.

since when have only air defense been fighting for the sky?

We will cover each convoy with a squadron of planes, echeloned in height, which should change and patrol on the convoy 24/7? For as soon as the birds fly away, UAVs and loitering ammunition will arrive.

[poquello]

Quote: donavi49

We will cover each convoy with a squadron of planes, echeloned in height, which should change and patrol on the convoy 24/7?

almost so, if you didn't notice - after the signing of the Karabakh truce, our planes from the base hung in the sky constantly

Quote: donavi49

When the Turks turned on the UAV, the Syrians had a very hard week.

What is the probability that you will react if, at the moment of entering the entrance, you are punched from the side in the face with a board? and when do you know about the ambush? just a surprise effect

[lucul]

When the Turks turned on the UAV, the Syrians had a very hard week

When the Turks turned on the UAV, their economy immediately flew into the pipe, and still can't get out of there.

[lucul]

Each convoy will be covered by a squadron of aircraft

What for ???? We will work out the MLRS on everything that moves. Remind me of how they fought in 1944-45? A wall of artillery fire, and only then do soldiers and equipment come.

[Runway]

Is that a banter? Whom do you plan to cover nzo / pzo when you move your forces in your rear?
The topic of “combating UAVs / CDs” is so “narrow” that it accommodates ALL types of UAVs of the interspecific grouping.

[lucul]

Is this a banter? winked who do you plan to cover nzo / pzo while moving your forces behind your lines?

Eh ... eh ... what does the rear have to do with the offensive? )))

[Runway]

In order to step somewhere, someone, someone, somewhere must create conditions (all-round support of the Concept / Decision).
UAV / KR - there are support facilities, incl. to reveal and disrupt the intentions of the opposite side (reconnaissance and fire defeat).

[Ulysses]

We will take out the drone control points.
The forces and means are available.

[Zaurbek]

Apparently, they are waiting for the appearance and testing of Orions with Syrian identification marks ... And the closure of the airspace of the Aerospace Forces ... ... but with anti-aircraft guns the babakhs are bad. There aren't enough shells for everyone.

[lucul]

These are pictures and video that Shilki, Strela, Wasps are still the main air defense of the Brigades outside Moscow. And they will fight enemy UAVs on the march and deploy.

No UAVs will even reach them, because Russia possesses weapons that have a range advantage over all countries except the United States.
How to distinguish a person with a Western type of thinking? It's very simple - in his reasoning he operates on scales no higher than a regiment.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: donavi49

And they will fight enemy UAVs on the march and deploy.

And our enemy won't have to try to somehow get rid of our UAVs carrying out reconnaissance and command control for artillery and missilemen under the rocket and artillery strikes

[huntsman650]

Did you take part ?, correctly people wrote, urapatrites do not like it))). There are still plenty of olds in service in the depths of the country (((

[alexmach]

and why are you showing pictures here?

Actually, the pictures show the Russian army if that.

[air defense]

The UAVs ensured complete air superiority, almost real-time reconnaissance, the possibility of targeted destruction of fortified positions in the mountains, if it were not for the UAV, the conflict would either still have been going on at the initial approaches, or even completely stalled.

[poquello]

Quote: Airdefense

UAVs ensured complete air superiority, reconnaissance in almost real time, the possibility of targeted destruction of fortified positions in the mountains, if it were not for the UAV, the conflict would either still go on at the initial approaches, or completely stalled.

Did you read what you wrote yourself? )))))))))))))))))))))))))

[lucul]

The army is big. More than half of the brigades are equipped with exactly the same equipment as the NKR. Armor and Torah-M2 were seen from Zvezda and magazines in the red corner. Or one unit of the new order is equipped with them

Another chutzpah.
The degree of localization of modern technology in the troops, as of 2020, reaches 50%, but for you - we are still jumping on battle bears, with a balalaika bald)))

[alexmach]

The degree of localization of modern technology in the troops, as of 2020, reaches 50%, but for you - we are still jumping on battle bears, with a balalaika bald)))

And download it. Does this figure also apply to military air defense? Read at least the comments of the people who served.

[lucul]

Read at least the comments of the people who served.

Served 20 years ago)))

[alexmach]

So the fact of the matter is that over the past 40 years, she did not step into the front. There are as many as 120 Thors in service, only 400 Wasps and the same number of arrows. And 50% of the new equipment is, after all, taking into account the "modern" T-72b3m and BTR-82a .. And in addition to them are outdated artillery and air defense. that's 50%. But you Uryakayte louder.

[lucul]

So the fact of the matter is that over the past 40 years, she has not really stepped in front of it.

Well, yes, well, yes, there is no difference between the S-200 and the S-400 at all, think of little things, yeah)))
But surely Tsakhal (Red Army ) the strongest of all, huh? ))))

[alexmach]

Well, yes, well, yes, there is no difference between the S-200 and the S-400 at all, think of little things, yeah)))

And how will he help you in military air defense then? Will you shoot down the S-400 harops? Or from the S-500, well, why waste time on trifles.

[huntsman650]

I will support this comment, there are still not enough new air defense and electronic warfare systems in the army. But there is a lot of window dressing)))

[figwam]

Quote: donavi49

More than half of the brigades are equipped with exactly the same equipment as the NKR.

Well, if in your opinion the Russian army has the same level as in the NKR, then I have nothing more to say.

[donavi49]

modern drones

Modern but not the most modern. TV2 despite a successful niche and solutions in general is a standard MALE for the first half of the 00s.
Harops - 2005 (2007 already export) and with the use of technical solutions and unification with the even older kamikaze Harpi.
Spikes are good, but not the best in the world.
small company-platoon UAVs for adjusting art fire, lighting for guided art ammunition, missiles - this is again the norm for 10 years.

The next level is swarms. These are projectiles like Hero or SwitchBlade. In fact, every infantry squad can (as long as it is expensive) shoot such things, without internal combustion engines (that is, there will be no noise and IR will not capture either) with an autonomy of 20-30 km of range and 30-60 minutes of flight.



In the near future, they will be taught to independently search for goals, according to the set priorities. By analyzing the visual / TPV picture and loaded models. This is already practically achievable, but energy consumption and price are limited. But by the 30s, such UAVs will probably already be on sale.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: donavi49

TV2 despite a successful niche and solutions in general is a standard MALE for the first half of the 00s.

Bayraktar is close to General Atomics GNAT in terms of parameters (it looks like the TK was coming from them, the Turks had them), this is the end of the 80s, the beginning of the 90s. So flatter the Turks a little.

[Cyril G ...]

According to rumors, several Predators were rented to the Turks in the region of 10-11.

[OgnennyiKotik]

They write that 6 units are purchased, 3 are rented. There are also Israeli Herons. If you look at the RQ-7 (9 of them), it becomes clear where Bayraktar's design came from.
It is not a secret at all that the Turks, shall we say, were "inspired" by the developments of the USA and Israel.
They follow the path of China and other laggards. Therefore, the Turks cannot sell anything more or less new.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

They write that 6 pieces have been bought,

I have not found this anywhere else. It was only about the fact of the lease.

[OgnennyiKotik]

From here I took the info
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator
But I looked at the article on which infa, they write there that they want to buy. So it's not a fact that they were purchased. But it is not fundamentally already, one way or another, the Turks received them and an actual copy of Anka in mass production.

[Cyril G ...]

If they were, they probably would have already been lit up. And by the way, Jaina and Balance are not aware of this.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Shone. During exercises with Azerbaijan.
They are already out of date. MQ-1 removed from US service, replaced by MQ-1C. The Turks make their full analogue Anka.
So whether the Turks bought them or not is a pointless question.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Shone. During exercises with Azerbaijan.

Glowed yes, exactly in 2011 or 2013 .., No longer glowed. Conclusion? Rent.

So whether the Turks bought them or not is a pointless question.

Well, how to figure it out is worth it, yes.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Rent so rent, it didn't stop them from taking apart and copying them

[lucul]

The next level is swarms.

The calibers will plow everything that has at least some military threat even before something can take off.

[alexmach]

Really? How many of these Callibres are available to the Air Force now? Can you imagine the order of the numbers?

[lucul]

Really? How many of these Callibres are available to the Air Force now? Can you imagine the order of the numbers?

Enough)))

[alexmach]

Yeah, yes, of course.

[lucul]

Yeah, yes, of course.

Nobody should care about the number of calibers, except for the Russians.
"Why do we need such a world if there is no Russia in it")))

[alexmach]

Nobody should care about the number of calibers, except for the Russians.

So the Russians don't really care about it along the way. Well, in any case, stupid.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: donavi49

In the near future, they will be taught to independently search for goals, according to the set priorities. By analyzing the visual / TPV picture and loaded models.

They wrote about this in the "Foreign Military Review" at the end of the last century, starting from the 80s! It's easy to say ... to make it harder! I agree that, in principle, this can be done now, but "gold-platinum" will then turn out to be "ammunition"! When it becomes, at least "silver", it will become a problem for the opponents ... but when it will be ... "rebus, crackword"!

[donavi49]

Computing capabilities of the 80s with x286 and today are silly to compare.

Here is your home computer as a whole can solve this problem. Not in real time (and this is not so critical - that is, the post-capture task is solved simply at the software level) but they can. The main task is to squeeze this processing time to at least half a minute and at the same time the consumption so that it does not break through the ceilings.

Modern systems solve even more complex problems. It remains to fit it into small size / consumption.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: donavi49

It remains to fit it into small size / consumption.

Apple M1 processor

[Nikolaevich I]

Was there a comparison of the computing capabilities of the 80s and the current ones? There was not a word about computing power! There was a talk that everything has its time! And it does not always depend on the "historical" period of time! Just as there were no devices with AI in the 80s of the last century, so they are absent up to the present moment in the true sense of this expression ...

[donavi49]

In the 80s, this was at the level of interdimensional travel. It seems possible in theory, but how unclear.

Now this is a real feature that is already working (by the way, the same DLSS is an even more demanding and voluminous technology than identifying objects in a picture and comparing them with a database, and they are in everyday vids). It just needs a little more progress on mobile and low power platforms.

[syndicalist]

Quote: figvam

, in Syria, our electronic warfare and air defense systems successfully counteract all types of UAVs.

According to Putin's media reports

[Stas157]

Quote: figvam

were applied modern Drones

Baykatatar is not particularly impressive in performance. Maximum speed 220 km / h. The range from the operator is only 150 km. Shock weapon stock of 100 kg, plus an optoelectronic module.

[Uncle lee]

the fight against cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles

ABM, Air Defense and PBO! Here!

[SSR]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

But the two conflicts (Syria and Karabakh) show quite different results.

Why should they show the same results?
In Syria, where Assad suffered a complete defeat, Russia came and turned the process in the opposite direction, in Karabakh Azerbaijan fought against the unrecognized NKR and the "volunteers" of Armenia. Why can the result be compared?
Our side can take this option into account and apply only in relation to the LPR and the DPR, but one gets the impression that if the ukrovermacht starts another war, then ours will not intervene at the level of "volunteers".

[nnm]

Not at all. KSHU (KSHMU) are carried out in the same way in the field with the study of the real theater. But, yes, not "peshe on the machine". They are conducted "on the cards" mainly for one reason - they are the highest form of training and are carried out at the highest levels with the involvement of several genera and types of aircraft. The main thing will be worked out - interaction on the formation of a multi-level air defense system, electronic warfare, aerospace forces, etc. This is what the NKR lacked.
Not focal exercises, but precisely on an operational-strategic scale, in order to develop a system of counteraction, interaction, new methods of struggle, etc. This is precisely the objectives of the command post, and not training the actions of individual crews.
And I believe that it is being done quite rightly - we must first understand and study the problems and options for counteraction in the complex of influencing circumstances.

[nobody75]

They are conducted "on the cards" mainly for one reason - they are the highest form of training and are carried out at the highest levels with the involvement of several genera and types of aircraft.

I'm embarrassed to ask, who will play for the blue in the sandbox? If the players divide into teams, then the "reds" who will fight off drone attacks will win. In order to prepare for the wars of the future, you need only one little girl to play for the "blue", who will simply say: "Alice, launch the drones and put on cartoons."
Sincerely

[Vadim_888]

... the two conflicts (Syria and Karabakh) show quite different results.

Tri-Libya was not counted

[MrFox]

Yes, only in the field. I remember when I served as an emergency division headquarters I was mobilized for a command post. It took more than an hour to leave the place of permanent deployment and line up in a column.

As I understand, missiles have already covered us, we could not continue

[stankow]

Yes, the schub plays on the map. But a real unit is always involved. For example, the decisions of the army shchaba are carried out by the battalion. To really see the time required to implement the commander's decision.

[taiga2018]

Thanks to Azerbaijan, Armenia and Turkey ... Some showed how to act, while others how not ...

[Skarpzd]

I do not remember who said, but I completely agree: the best air defense is tanks on enemy airfields. and even better - pre-gouge these airfields to a lunar landscape.

that I am aggressive today .... cognac or something for peacefulness to take ???

[Vadim_888]

... the best air defense - tanks on enemy airfields. or even better - pre-grind these airfields to a lunar landscape

And now there are problems with this - the tanks will not have time to reach, and a number of types of drones do not need airfields

[Rocj]

Be sure to take it!)))
And life will become more beautiful ...))

[APASUS]

The main topic of the Zapad-2021 strategic command-and-staff exercise will be the fight against drones and cruise missiles. This was reported by the press service of the Western Military District.

Actually, two topics should be worked out:
1 Counteracting drone strikes
2 Massive use of drones against enemy targets
Only in this perspective should the teachings take place in order to understand what you are opposing.

[Mountain shooter]

Without the proper organization of air defense (against anyone, even a UAV), no technology, the most advanced, will help ... Everything must complement one another ... and situational awareness is especially important. Be aware of the appearance of a threat, the area in which it appeared. Transfer information to all means of destruction ...

[Konnick]

Invite the Armenians to the exercises, they are in the CSTO, and they know how to "successfully" fight the UAV, according to them

[nnm]

What for ? In Syria, Russia itself has successfully gained experience in repelling attacks from Turkish UAVs.

[OgnennyiKotik]

I hope this is ironic? This video is from Arma 3, featuring Vulcan-Falanx.

[nnm]

I do not know. I didn’t shoot and I cannot vouch for the accuracy. All the same, not taken from a worthy primary source. But the results of countering UAVs in Syria are unambiguous. And lancets knock down, and bayraktars, and so on ...
So it is not worth portraying the UAV as being invulnerable to the wunderwaffe

[OgnennyiKotik]

I guarantee this is 100% from Arma 3. It features a phalanx.

[nnm]

Yes, I kind of don't argue. I say something else - the results of the defense of Khmeimim are quite worthy of attention. As well as the experience of Iran. And the same Beyraktars successfully landed.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Your statements from the virtual world are just like videos.
Khmeimim military UAVs did not attack, only converted civilians. Against which, just the electronic warfare is extremely effective. And then they broke through and caused damage to aviation.
Iranian tales about "planted" UAVs are for Scheherazade, the same about "planted" Bayraktars. Operator errors and technical breakdowns are very easy to turn into victories.

[nnm]

Yes, yes, yes ... just start praying for Beyraktars and others like them ...
To be honest, the topic is so hackneyed that it's even boring to write about the same thing. Consider a UAV - a wunderwaffe - just fine. So keep thinking. Do you think that echelon-based electronic warfare and air defense systems do not land them - excellent. Continue in the same spirit.
https://avia.pro/news/siriyskie-pvo-sbili-tureckiy-udarnyy-bpla-bayraktar-tb2

[OgnennyiKotik]

Avia.pro serious? Can you still send a link to Yandex.Zen?

[nnm]

Well yes. Exactly, this is not a profile site. Forgive me, what are you guided by? Is there no censor or ISIL.ua (banned on the territory of the Russian Federation)?
And then you make some loud statements about operator errors, that only civilian drones get lost ... and the sources of your statements did not explain. Please provide examples of sources.

[lucul]

Khmeimim military UAVs did not attack, only converted civilians. Against which, just the electronic warfare is extremely effective. And then they broke through and caused damage to aviation.

What's the problem ? Or do the barmaley have no UAVs, and they are not sold freely, like other weapons? ))))
Could hit the base - they would have attacked a long time ago)))

[Thrifty]

Fiery cat-photo can you lay out the damage to the Khmeinim base from "escaped drones" ???

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

and caused damage to aviation.

Not applied. That was a fake.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

It depicts a phalanx

Well, it's good that not a phallus!

[syndicalist]

Quote: nnm

So it is not worth portraying the UAV as being invulnerable to the wunderwaffe

Of course! They are invulnerable only to the current Russian weapons.

[Cyril G ...]

And this is again a case of so-called lies .... But I will tell you in secret that you will simply peel off - if against any country in the world except Israel, and this is a surprise - Russia uses a Karabakh-style UAV, the result will be the same everywhere. That is, from a bunch of problems, to put it mildly, to a complete defeat. The Turks will run so easily. They do not have adequate military air defense, from the word in general ...

[syndicalist]

Recently, Russia (or its charges) has lost more than a dozen S-300/400 / Buk / Kub air defense systems, 6 TOP complexes, about 60 Armor, countless Tungus women, wasps, and shiloks. At the same time, only a few drones can be recorded among the successes, by no means the top level. That's the whole result of "adequate" air defense.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: syndicalist

lost more than a dozen S-300/400 / Buk / Cube air defense systems, 6 TOP complexes, about 60 Armor, countless Tungus, wasps, shiloks.

You are delusional ...... Get off the coke and take a course of treatment.

[cmax]

Quote: nnm

What for ? In Syria, Russia itself has successfully gained experience in repelling attacks from Turkish UAVs.

Works beautifully (even if it's a game, in Baghdad the same worked really). Compared to this complex, the Shells beat from their cannons into white light like a pretty penny, the spread when firing is awesome. Maybe someday they will get somewhere.

[iouris]

Can't you postpone it to April? It might be too late in September ...

[nnm]

There should be no rush.
These are strategic exercises. And CSU of such a scale that they would not be carried out for the sake of a tick, they are not prepared very quickly. Moreover, they are interstate.

[Konnick]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Indeed, in my knowledge and understanding, staff exercises are exercises "on the map."

Correct understanding, well, you have to do something, even if there is nothing, they will buzz, fingers in cards, sorry, cards, poke, well, the banquet at the end. Pay attention to how the technique is put on the exercises, according to the Armenian model, in the correct caponiers, dug even under the king of peas, no, rather, with the secretary-maize, and even in an even row, for the convenience of the enemy and ostentatious disregard for death. Ugh, disgusting. And we do not have such drones that can be used as targets, there are targets, but these are just mini-helicopters.

[nnm]

Excuse me, colleague, I have one question - did you take part in many CSU and in which link?
Have you ever tried on the role of an operator at least in the division headquarters?

[Konnick]

Quote: nnm

Excuse me, colleague, I have one question - did you take part in many CSU and in which link?
Have you ever tried on the role of an operator at least in the division headquarters?

Hi colleague!
Did you also serve as an operator at the headquarters?

[nnm]

As I can see, do you like to answer a question with a question? Ok, I’ll answer. Yes, I did. And you ?
Otherwise, you talk so confidently about poking your fingers at cards, banquets ...
Probably, you have passed more than one KSHU, since you see it that way, right?

[evgen1221]

Right. The UAV today and the barrage of ammunition are the shock core of the attack and it is necessary to work out its rebound

[lucul]

Right. The UAV today and the barrage of ammunition are the shock core of the attack and it is necessary to work out its rebound

This is a good option for armies that do not have their own cruise missiles and MLRS, just like modern aviation.

[evgen1221]

And there are many full-scale wars with millions of armies going on? The UAV definitely needs to be developed as well as the means of dealing with them. Plus money goes from the sale (who and where is another question)

[lucul]

And there are many full-scale wars with millions of armies going on? The UAV definitely needs to be developed as well as the means of dealing with them.

UAVs are too expensive to be used in a full-scale conflict - only for local skirmishes.

[evgen1221]

Themselves then realized that they froze? Uavs are expensive for large-scale wars, but at the same time cheap for LAN. Are onli lionfish for the scale very cheap and quickly riveted? Nu-nu. With large-scale wars, mass production is being established and uavs are getting cheaper.

[lucul]

Themselves then realized that they froze? Uavs are expensive for large-scale wars, but at the same time cheap for LAN

Pffff ...
Well, let's - estimate the costs of destroying an infantry division (fortified) with some UAVs. Moreover, the division will be covered by aviation and air defense.

With large-scale wars, mass production is being established and uavs become cheaper.

In case of large-scale wars, Caliber will not be allowed to produce anything, simply by destroying the enemy's factories - the range of Caliber allows this)))

[evgen1221]

And the range of the tamogavka allows you to buy from factories that rivet calibers too, but the caliber will not reach the USA. Since then it will be, again, with the development of cheap and mass components of optics and electromechanics, uav is cheaper and in the house of pioneers (pensioners) it is possible to make. But the caliber cannot be made there. I'm just laughing at your logic.

[lucul]

And the range of the tamogavka allows you to buy from factories that rivet calibers too, but the caliber will not reach the USA

Tomahawks then go astray (the destroyer could not destroy 1 airfield), but there is no Caliber)))

[Konnick]

Quote: nnm

As I can see, do you like to answer a question with a question? Ok, I’ll answer. Yes, I did. And you ?
Otherwise, you talk so confidently about poking your fingers at cards, banquets ...
Probably, you have passed more than one KSHU, since you see it that way, right?

Yeah, I have such a VUS. Serve banquets 261 385

[nnm]

I remember how your "cadets" - lawyers, prosecutors near Dmitrov, were driven on agricultural work so that you closed on your floor at night)))
And then they also ran for alcohol to us. So, your VUS is fine.

[Konnick]

Quote: evgen1221

Right. The UAV today and the barrage of ammunition are the shock core of the attack and it is necessary to work out its rebound

It is not necessary to work out in the headquarters, but in the design bureau to create a new technique for detecting and targeting unobtrusive targets, and it will be possible to shoot down without headquarters exercises. And so, as usual, the Armenians also conducted such exercises, we will soon hear - The exercises have been successfully completed, the UAVs of the simulated enemy have been destroyed ...

[XXXIII]

Quote: Konnick

Quote: evgen1221

Right. The UAV today and the barrage of ammunition are the shock core of the attack and it is necessary to work out its rebound

It is not necessary to work out in the headquarters, but in the design bureau to create a new technique for detecting and targeting unobtrusive targets, and it will be possible to shoot down without headquarters exercises. And so, as usual, the Armenians also conducted such exercises, we will soon hear - The exercises have been successfully completed, the UAVs of the simulated enemy have been destroyed ...

Tasks are set, but this is not a priority, since this is a counteraction in local wars. For the Russian Federation, long-arm missiles are now important, to cover any base, headquarters, at a distance. Israel's experience is closer to the Russian Federation, covering collection points or cells before they get out of the UAV. Although Israel is bombing there, they know.))
And this task could be undertaken by the allies in the CSTO, but they only count money there. And so the Design Bureau of the Russian Federation is already loaded with strategic projects, but nobody writes off the BLPA. Development is underway in this direction, but no one will show them just like that, for the sake of beautiful cartoons. Yes, and arming the Russian allies who lie on the stove and save their chairs by unleashing wars, is also not going to. Joint exercises also pass, but as we see in vain, there is zero sense.

[Shahno]

// Israel's experience is closer to the Russian Federation, to cover collection points or cells before they get out from the UAV. Although Israel is bombing there, they know.)) //
It is known that. Any suspicious complex not included in the list. Seen as a threat. And in the process (if there is no feedback) it is subject to attack.
What actually happens. Someone may not have understood.

[XXXIII]

Quote: Shahno

// Israel's experience is closer to the Russian Federation, to cover collection points or cells before they get out from the UAV. Although Israel is bombing there, they know.)) //
It is known that. Any suspicious complex not included in the list. Seen as a threat. And in the process (if there is no feedback) it is subject to attack.
What actually happens. Someone may not have understood.

Got it, I hope this is accurate information.))

[Shahno]

Accurate To date. There are, as it were, few secrets. Normal work.

[XXXIII]

Quote: Shahno

Accurate To date. There are, as it were, few secrets. Normal work.

So they bought in Israel "Forpost-R" - "Russified" modification of the UAV "Forpost", a licensed copy of the Israeli UAV Searcher MkII (English searcher - "searcher"). Russia, like Israel or Israel, like Russia, prioritizes intelligence first, and then weapons of destruction. It is cheaper, otherwise if you create a weapon and then look for it, you won't have any budget. And this is what barbarians usually do with gas cylinders. Are they catching Hezbollah scouts or other candidates for victory over Israel in Israel? As I have not heard, to be honest, I heard a lot about the destruction of bases. Local compatriots - readers to the last patron tell the details of attacks on Iranian cells.))

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: XXXIII

Are they catching Hezbollah scouts or other candidates for victory over Israel in Israel? To be honest, I haven't heard

They catch it periodically.
The GSS investigation revealed that this is how Hezbollah is working in Lebanon to recruit Israeli citizens. Balal Bizari and Beirut Hamud recruited Israelis in Turkey to spy on Israel.

The interrogation of two Israeli citizens from Majdal Krum, who were arrested for interrogation, revealed how Hezbollah in Lebanon is working to recruit Israeli citizens to work for it in Israel, as well as the names of Hezbollah's websites and recruiters.
The General Security Service will continue to work vigorously to monitor and interdict any terrorist or espionage activity by Hezbollah.

[yfast]

Conditionally reflect the conditional unmanned equipment of the conditional enemy. There will be no more useless exercises.
Purchase heels of bayraktar and teach air defense to detect and shoot them down. There should just be enough money
not spent on exercises.

[XXXIII]

Quote: yfast

Conditionally reflect the conditional unmanned equipment of the conditional enemy. There will be no more useless exercises.
Purchase heels of bayraktar and teach air defense to detect and shoot them down. There should just be enough money
not spent on exercises.

Why buy, make a layout and go. And what is easier to detect, a small rocket with a higher speed and lower speed, or a Turkish UAV?

[huntsman650]

The drones sowed panic among the NKR defenders !!! And that's it!

[XXXIII]

Quote: huntsman650

The drones sowed panic among the NKR defenders !!! And that's it!

Hurry up Azerbaijan's reaction to the conflict. The NKR-Armenians did not think that Azerbaijan would be demolished immediately, but it would take a long time to decide at what time to attack, before lunch or after.)) But seeing the determination, the NKR-militia realized that there was no chance one could cope, they waited for the Armenian troops, but there was panic.

[Bez 310]

Another theatrical performance at
a military-patriotic theme?
To be honest, I don't imagine a "strategic"
drills to repel a UAV attack. But who am I
to tell the generals how best to spend
people's money?

[vladcub]

"the fight against cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles" UAVs are becoming a real danger. Armenians had 60% of losses from unmanned vehicles.
I foresee that these UAVs will become cheaper and become "favorite toys" of various terrorist organizations.
Already now, without much difficulty, Aliexpress can buy radio-controlled aircraft models, and attach 2-3 sensible checkers to it and a combat drone is ready

[Konnick]

Quote: XXXIII

For the Russian Federation, long-arm missiles are now important, to cover any base, headquarters, at a distance.

I agree, but in order to cover you need to know where to cover, for this you need information. Azerbaijan had information about the location of control points, which can be obtained even using the so-called satellite maps on the Internet, and on the Wikimapia website you can find out the names of the air defense system. But for more accurate aiming, a more accurate infa with a video sequence is also needed, such as an enemy reconnaissance group on satellite images, you will not see it, you need to watch it in real time.
It is possible to direct a long-arm missile at stationary objects, but at mobile missile systems it is already more difficult and this is not the task of the UAV.
Even with intercontinental weapons, and someone said we will throw calibers, who will indicate the target, in the same America. Spy satellites only.

But we must not forget about close combat, and this is already becoming the prerogative of using UAVs to obtain target designation.

[XXXIII]

Quote: Konnick

But we must not forget about close combat, and this is already becoming the prerogative of using UAVs to obtain target designation.

This is true, but a swarm of UAVs cannot be used for a long time, and how long it is. The conflict in the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic is an example of how it is impossible to do, there, in fact, the UAV launch points were at a shot range with impunity, there was no reconnaissance. A competent army should not allow such a competent army, even if the MLRS comes within the range of a shot, then they cover it if the reconnaissance worked on time.
Here's an example of low intensity melee combat, with minimal calculation.

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: XXXIII

This is true, but a swarm of UAVs cannot be used for a long time, and how long it is.

You are not entirely right, this pack in which you can control only one, and he controls the whole pack, destruction from soldier to equipment.

[XXXIII]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

Quote: XXXIII

This is true, but a swarm of UAVs cannot be used for a long time, and how long it is.

You are not entirely right, this pack in which you can control only one, and he controls the whole pack, destruction from soldier to equipment.

How and on what will you invisibly deliver such a number of drones? Here is reconnaissance and target designation, pinpoint strikes, while they will be in perspective. And the swarm is still primitive. You must understand that the swarm is an analogue of artillery, which they try not to admit to the radius of the shot, otherwise a full one is waiting on the line of fire. And the swarm of drones, in fact, the same as the MLRS becomes, the circle is closed. If reconnaissance is carried out and target designation is given to the launcher of the MLRS, then there will be the same swarm, only from cluster missiles.
Here is an example, when a MLRS (a swarm of UAVs) was admitted to the radius of the shot.

ps. cons are not mine.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Special attention

The main theme and special attention are different things.

[vladcub]

Quote: huntsman650

I will support this comment, there are still not enough new air defense and electronic warfare systems in the army. But there is a lot of window dressing)))

And where was there no show? Show-off, carelessness and shapkozakidstvo these are three troubles of ANY army

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

only converted civilians.

By the way, these alterations and homemade products had quite an insignificant RCS, and due to the minimum speed, they were quite consistent with the parameters of the birds. So don't underestimate them clearly.

[rruvim]

From extreme to extreme. After Karabakh and Idlib, they impose on us a "fight" with drones, the emphasis of future exercises is also shifting to this struggle, and hence the resources of the defense industry. Those. against small, low-flying and slow-flying targets. But in reality, there will be a struggle with classic supersonic aircraft flying at ultra-low altitudes, or in the stratosphere at a cruising supersonic speed. Why are we being told horror and the problem with the UAV of a potential enemy? When there are more real threats to air defense and missile defense.

[agond]

On both VIDIOs, the drones do not go astray at once, you have to shoot in long bursts (if there were not 2-3 drones, but let's say 5-6, then some of them would have flown to the target,) there is a reason for this, it is called - at a given shooting distance the dispersion diameter of the projectiles is significantly larger than the target. This is difficult to fix neither now nor in the future, since the UAV can be made even smaller and, most importantly, faster. This begs the question of the suitability of machine guns and automatic cannons to combat such targets.

[TOR2]

The main topic of the Zapad-2021 strategic command-and-staff exercise will be the fight against drones and cruise missiles. This was reported by the press service of the Western Military District.

It depends on what we cover. If the object is located at a distance from the enemy, then there, then there the range of weapons is one, if the front edge, then another. An object in the depths of its own territory will be attacked by either CD or heavy UAVs. The cost of these gizmos is either comparable or higher than the cost of an anti-aircraft missile. The discussions mainly concern the defense of the leading edge, which means that these are small-sized and inexpensive UAVs to manufacture. One of the books devoted to the development of the BM-13 told about an interesting episode. A group of military men examines the BM-13 at the training ground. One of the eminent gunners notices with indignation. I'm used to shooting and hitting the target, what kind of cannon it is from which it is impossible to hit the target from the first shot. Very little time passed and a new technology for those times showed its fiery grin near Orsha. In the case of a UAV, it will be more effective to cover the whole sector at once, only instead of antenna launchers .. It will not matter how many there are. Such a "shot" is cheaper than a UAV. If you go down to an infantry unit, then this small-sized portable installation with an optics detector will be able to work both in the sky and on the ground, but practice will tell you how to destroy the detected UAV.

[stankow]

Quote: MrFox

I remember when I served in the urgent division headquarters I was mobilized for the command post. It took more than an hour to withdraw from the place of permanent deployment and line up in a column.
As I understand, missiles have already covered us, we could not continue

And we understand that your division earned "bad" money to withdraw from the area. But not all divisions are at this level. By the way, when was that? In the dashing 90s? :)

[stankow]

Quote: Konnick

pozhzhuzhat, fingers in cards, sorry, cards, poke, well, the banquet at the end. Pay attention to how the technique is put on the exercises, according to the Armenian model, in the correct caponiers, dug even under the king of peas, no, rather, with the secretary-maize, and even in an even row, for the convenience of the enemy and ostentatious disregard for death. Ugh, disgusting. And we do not have such drones that can be used as targets, there are targets, but these are just mini-helicopters.

Eh, look at you, how to "pozhzhzhite" 5 days without sleep, maximum 2 hours in the afternoon, then you will refuse the banquet!
How the technique was put - noticed. It was with this that the Armenians had order. Perfectly opened shelters for equipment, in "full height", can be seen tore off by a bulldozer. The day before, the sides were reinforced. Not a single grass has grown yet, the soil is fresh. They had trouble with disguise, that's for sure!
And the battery is placed in an "even row" for the convenience of the SOB, to make it easier to build a fan of the battery. The enemy does not care, he saw one gun, and see others, a distance of 10-20 meters does not solve anything.
Drones for targets in Russia are a whole industry. Maybe a dozen models. For each air defense system. There are even supersonic ones.

[stankow]

Quote: lucul

Well, let's - estimate the costs of destroying an infantry division (fortified) with some UAVs. Moreover, the division will be covered by aviation and air defense.

In general, the entrenched division not only with UAV toys, but the entire artillery and aviation of the army, and even with the involvement of the RGK, cannot be destroyed. Tenacious infantry, buried in mother earth. You can destroy at most one battalion stronghold and enter a tank regiment into the gap. Consumption - 2 tactical ammunition, 20 kT each, air detonation. Well, according to the combat regulations. Otherwise, you will gouge for days, and development is zero. This is if we are talking about destruction. Suppressing fire resources and displacing them in the front sector is another matter. Complete destruction (50% and more losses) is impossible and unnecessary.

[stankow]

Quote: huntsman650

The drones sowed panic among the NKR defenders !!! And that's it!

I did not see panic. Rather, on the contrary - carelessness. Poor camouflage, no observation, lack of training in drugs for the command "air", poor dispersal. But it heals quickly. There would be a military leadership in place.

[stankow]

Quote: vladcub

Armenians had 60% of losses from unmanned vehicles.

And the remaining 70% of the losses were in the propaganda war: D: D

[lopvlad]

Quote: kytx

but what to do with the bloom of a swarm of small ones, apparently, no one knows

this is no longer a problem, the little thing is perfectly burned out with the help of REB.