Military Review

Pentagon: Decision to increase production of F-35 fighters postponed indefinitely

132
Pentagon: Decision to increase production of F-35 fighters postponed indefinitely

The American media reported a statement by Pentagon representatives about the postponed decision on the start of full-scale production of F-35 fighters.


At first glance, the information looks very strange, because to date, more than 600 such fifth-generation fighters have already been produced, and some of them have been delivered to different countries of the world, including Norway, Japan, Israel, etc. What was this, if not serial production?

However, in this case, we are talking about a truly large-scale program, involving the production of more than 3,2 thousand F-35s of various modifications. That is, it implies a variant of increasing the volume of aircraft production at times.

US Deputy Secretary of Defense Ellen Lord notes that "the decision on full-scale serial production of fighters, increasing production of the F-35 has been postponed indefinitely."

US press with reference to the Pentagon:

The corresponding decision will be made by the future administration (the administration of Joe Biden - approx. "VO").

It is noted that such a postponement "for an indefinite period" is due to the fact that the so-called operational tests of F-35 fighters have not yet been completed in the United States and other countries. The complex of these tests is designated as IOT & E.

Only after the end of these operational tests, as noted, should the fighters comply with all technical requirements.

In fact, this is an unprecedented event in the world of the military industry: to create hundreds of aircraft and carry out this entire production process (together with the export process) as part of tests. It turns out that the Pentagon itself confirms the purchase of "raw" aircraft from the Air Force, the Navy and the US Marine Corps.
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  1. RealPilot
    RealPilot 1 January 2021 13: 44
    +2
    Q.E.D!
    But there are no i-d-i-o-t-s, which is also confirmed ...
    1. RealPilot
      RealPilot 1 January 2021 13: 49
      0
      By and large, the Penguin did not live up to expectations. It's true.

      Wherein:
      create hundreds of aircraft and carry out this entire production process (together with the export process) as part of tests


      The production process can be implemented in another machine. There would be a plant with a certain level of equipment, a set of technologies.

      Add a second engine, modify the fuselage to about a Raptor. Consider the experience of Russia and China. Work on bugs.
      And the avionics there is good, who would doubt it.
      1. bar
        bar 1 January 2021 14: 25
        +20
        Quote: RealPilot
        Add a second engine, modify the fuselage to about a Raptor. Consider the experience of Russia and China. Work on bugs.

        Well, yes, all you have to do is start and finish, "there would be a plant with a certain level of equipment." laughing
        A fair wind to their hunchbacked back.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 1 January 2021 15: 38
          -7
          Pentagon: Decision to increase production of F-35 fighters postponed indefinitely

          Quote: bar
          A fair wind to their hunchbacked back.

          Postponed, not postponed - the main thing is NOT CANCELED!
          However, what do we have in Russia? If Rusal Deribaska for the production of aluminum in Russia has actually passed into full external foreign American-British management and in fact full ownership of the United States?
          Russians from this longing takes!

          The United States took Rusal and En + Group away from Deripaska. Liquidation of the aluminum industry in the Russian Federation. E Fedorov Part1. Jan 29. Dec 2019
          1. Tatyana
            Tatyana 1 January 2021 16: 06
            -2
            As for Russian aluminum, which is needed by the Russian military-industrial complex and the Russian industry, we have a very unpleasant following.

            The same story with Deripaska is very revealing. It helps to understand why the US started a sanctions war with the Russian Federation and other countries.
            Loyal to Putin oligarch Oleg Deripaska essentially transferred all his assets under the control of the US Treasury. Half a year of his life under sanctions - and he capitulated. The move was probably agreed in the Kremlin, where they understood: either they will have to save Deripaska's aluminum business until the end of the century, or quietly and quietly place the company under US control. Nationalization would not have solved the problem. Russia, under US sanctions, would not be able to sell such an amount of aluminum and would have to close factories and fire workers.

            Here is such a sad and instructive story both for the patriotic statesmen and for the oligarch-liberal “market people” in Russia itself.
            And it remains for us to discuss in the abstract the plans for the expanded production of American aircraft, not noticing our most important national and geopolitical problems.

            Deripaska donated aluminum to the US • Dec 20. 2018
            1. frog
              frog 1 January 2021 16: 16
              +5
              Commercials you will start to be interested in other things, colleague)) What do we have with the production of oxygen, for example ... I just keep quiet about electronics ... And much more, finances, for example, here are repeatedly remembered and so on ... not at all like New Year's wink
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 1 January 2021 16: 26
                +1
                Quote: frog
                Well, that's not at all New Year's

                But what can I say there!
                A new year has begun, but all the problems in Russia and the world are more than OLD!
                We are now living in a very troubling time!
                1. frog
                  frog 1 January 2021 16: 44
                  0
                  "Times do not choose, they live and die" Alas, not me .....
                  Come on, it has always been and always no conclusions ... I'm not talking about ... the upper ones, these conclusions are made, for themselves, essno .... And the others ..... And there - something about the sheriff and ..... "Native Americans" .....
                2. Alf
                  Alf 1 January 2021 20: 16
                  0
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  and the problems are all in Russia ... more than OLD remained!

                  And what do you want from the OLD government and the UNCOMMENDED course?
            2. da Vinci
              da Vinci 1 January 2021 16: 48
              +3
              There is a way out: to create a new JSC for the production of aluminum with 51%. in the hands of the state for critical sectors of the economy, incl. and defense (even if 49 percent is invested by Dermipaska and co.), redirect the best raw materials to them, and work. Let the new owners of the Rusal do whatever they want, but it grew. production will be with its own aluminum. But, again, to force Deripaskoff to invest in full in new factories, and not in new yachts.
              1. Alf
                Alf 1 January 2021 20: 18
                +2
                Quote: da Vinci
                There is a way out: to create a new JSC for the production of aluminum with 51%. in the hands of the state for critical sectors of the economy, incl. and defense (even if 49 percent is invested by dermipaska and co.), redirect the best raw materials to them, and work.

                WHO will do it? Those who still call them PARTNERS after everything that happened?
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 1 January 2021 20: 46
                  +8
                  Quote: da Vinci
                  There is a way out: to create a new JSC for the production of aluminum with 51%. in the hands of the state for critical sectors of the economy, incl. and defense (even if 49 percent is invested by Dermipaska and co.), redirect the best raw materials to them, and work. Let the new owners of the Rusal do whatever they want, but it grew. production will be with its own aluminum. But, again, to force Deripaskoff to invest in full in new factories, and not in new yachts.
                  Unfortunately, nothing will come of it!

                  Firstly, Russian aluminum enterprises are already owned by the United States and are controlled by the Lord from Great Britain. The sanctions were lifted from them, but the US did not lift the sanctions from Deripaska himself, although the Americans promised Deripaska this. And he dreamed of settling for permanent residence in the United States. Therefore, the United States twists ropes from Deripaska.

                  Secondly. Deripaska is already building a new aluminum plant, not in Russia, but in the United States itself, in which he will own 40% of the shares. It will be easy for Washington to take them away from him later. Part of the products from this enterprise will be sold by the United States to the Russian Federation - naturally, at its American quantitative and price discretion. But the raw materials will be Russian.
                  Naturally, there is no question of any national Russian sovereignty in this case, and cannot go!

                  Moreover, back in 2002, Putin warned Russian oligarchs about such things, however, it was then about offshore:
                  "I remember a simple Russian wisdom - friendship is friendship, and tobacco apart. We have good relations with many of our partners. But Western economies, which now have these resources of Russian origin, are not interested in their withdrawal. There is every reason to believe that the regimes for the use of funds placed in offshore zones will continue to tighten. I am not saying that tomorrow they will be frozen, but if a decision of this kind is made, I apologize for the simplicity of expression, you will be tormented to swallow dust, running around the courts in an attempt to unfreeze these funds. "
                  Well, how can you not remember Stalin ?!

                  Putin: "You are tortured to swallow dust!" 2002 year
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 1 January 2021 21: 01
                    -1
                    Quote: Tatiana
                    Well, how can you not remember Stalin ?!

                    But Putin is far from Stalin, but rather his antipode.
                  2. KCA
                    KCA 2 January 2021 03: 20
                    +1
                    Where and what kind of aluminum plant is Deripaska building in the USA? Will he carry clay there? To smelt aluminum, you need a power plant with a capacity like the St. Petersburg hydroelectric power station, are there such in the USA? And it is possible to stamp from ingots even in central Africa, even in the Sahara, mining and smelting of aluminum can be completely transferred to the state property in 5 minutes, and Deripaska will go as the governor of Chukotka or somewhere else, and then, if there is no mind, to London
                    1. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 2 January 2021 11: 19
                      +1
                      Quote: KCA
                      Where and what kind of aluminum plant is Deripaska building in the USA?

                      Oleg Deripaska's Rusal is building the largest plant in depressed Kentucky.

                      In 2018, they announced the construction of an aluminum metallurgical plant in Kentucky. He was supposed to save the region from a prolonged depression
                      Ashland, Kentucky, 20, has suffered from economic depression and unemployment for years: local businesses, including a large steel mill, were closed and thousands of people were laid off. In addition, the region suffers greatly from the epidemic of opioid addiction that swept the United States in the 2000s.
                      The $ 1,7 billion plant is supposed to produce aluminum for the consumer market - from cars and planes to soda cans. And Deripaska's Rusal became its largest investor.

                      The history of oligarch Oleg Deripaska, who has lost a lot of weight, has become another, practically laboratory, example of the “globalization of the economy” and the “honesty” of the Western liberal system. Namely.
                      US authorities deprived Deripaska of 81% of his fortune on a far-fetched pretext of "interference in elections", and in 2018 his fortune, according to Forbes magazine, amounted to nearly 6 billion 700 million dollars. I.e, thanks to a purely raider seizure, the AMERICAN "partners" acquired assets for free in the amount of about 5 billion 427 million dollars.

                      And if the raider-political feint conceived by Hillary Clinton with allegedly "interference in the elections" succeeds, then everyone who took the money to London will follow Deripaska.
            3. sustav75
              sustav75 2 January 2021 06: 05
              -1
              Anyone capitulates with you! But not Putin! The trouble is that Putin is addicted! Only in words he is fighting American imperialism, but in fact he himself and his aligarhs are enemies for our Motherland!
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 2 January 2021 11: 32
                0
                Quote: sustav75
                Anyone capitulates with you! But not Putin! The trouble is that Putin is addicted! Only in words he fights against American imperialism, but in fact he himself and his henchmen oligarchs are enemies for our Motherland!

                Do not tell me here the secrets of Openness under capitalism!
                Better tell us exactly what you are proposing constructive for our country ?! Where, why and how?
          2. VO3A
            VO3A 1 January 2021 22: 52
            +5
            There are very general comments! The F35 is not a multipurpose aircraft! It is designed more for covert reconnaissance and target designation! It is simply not needed in the stated quantities! This is where all the squats and the resumption of production of 4th generation aircraft come from! It was clear from the start! An even more disastrous concept of a single aircraft in 3 modifications ... It just happened what should have happened !!!
            1. eklmn
              eklmn 1 January 2021 23: 05
              -1
              "It just happened what should have happened !!!"
              Andrey, your optimism is off scale! Find the original and translate, otherwise none of your ears will be enough to hold such a number of noodles! The delay due to the unavailability of the simulator, on which you can simulate the air defense systems of Russia and China, that's all.
              1. VO3A
                VO3A 2 January 2021 01: 41
                +1
                I'm not going to change my mind! I clearly understand the purpose and capabilities of the F35!
                This is an aircraft for covert reconnaissance and target designation in the US network-centric system! Nobody needs it anymore, because without an information system it is of no value at all! He is tailored for it! A scam with allies is clearly visible in the example of Israel, which changes its systems, rebuilds, reprograms its brains for its systems !!! They are good at it! But they get this plane virtually free of charge and are constantly fighting. Nobody else will do this, and will they be able to ...
                1. Sistemnik
                  Sistemnik 3 January 2021 20: 19
                  -2
                  This is an aircraft for covert reconnaissance and target designation in the US network-centric system!

                  Gospad, how has this USE already bored ... smile
                  Well why build thousands Pepelatsev "for covert reconnaissance and target designation"?
                  Did they build more U2 than F15 before?
                  From such a PR "cover" you become even funnier. Level for the sky drug young man.
                  1. VO3A
                    VO3A 3 January 2021 20: 48
                    -1
                    It is simply not needed in the stated quantities

                    Wipe your glasses or use droplets, drug starper !! And you'd better go to the doctor for a little boredom ... Fuck you our ...
              2. KCA
                KCA 2 January 2021 03: 37
                +3
                Long-range radar detection works for 2000 km or more, stealth, not stealth monopenisual, the takeoff of one aircraft detects, the takeoff of tens / hundreds will immediately cause the full combat readiness of all air defense systems, long-range detection missiles will not be able to direct missiles, but it will be able to withdraw fighters up to visual contact, I do not say even about OLS, all other means of destruction will also be in full readiness, which simulators? Meaning?
                1. eklmn
                  eklmn 2 January 2021 17: 57
                  -1
                  "Long-range radar detection works at 2000 km or more, ... takeoff of tens / hundreds will immediately cause the full combat readiness of all air defense systems."
                  Quite right - both "distant" ones will see and "call up combat readiness", everything is correct, but only in peacetime. If a military attack, war, then the attackers will not raise "tens / hundreds" of aircraft without first destroying the enemy's air defense. It is clear that it will not be possible to destroy 100%, but then what will remain, and will be "discovered from afar" and "will call forth readiness" ...
                  This happened in Iraq twice - first, the air defense was destroyed, then the planes took off. And this is the ABC of strategy.
                  1. max702
                    max702 3 January 2021 09: 15
                    0
                    Did Iraq have similar air defense threats? Yes, and it was 30 years ago .. But of course nothing has changed in the world, even more so in one country with an economy torn to shreds ...
                  2. Sistemnik
                    Sistemnik 3 January 2021 20: 20
                    +1
                    It happened in Iraq twice

                    Were they afraid that the Papuans would knock them down with beads? lol
          3. Captain45
            Captain45 2 January 2021 17: 29
            +1
            Quote: Tatiana
            The United States wrested Rusal and En + Group from Deripaska.

            I beg your pardon, but tell me when the aluminum plants were dismantled and transported to the USA from Sayanogorsk and Krasnoyarsk?
            1. max702
              max702 3 January 2021 09: 18
              +1
              I beg your pardon, but tell me when the aluminum plants were dismantled and transported to the USA from Sayanogorsk and Krasnoyarsk?
              But somehow it turned out not convenient ..
            2. Tatyana
              Tatyana 3 January 2021 14: 04
              +1
              Quote: Captain45
              Quote: Tatiana
              The United States wrested Rusal and En + Group from Deripaska.

              I beg your pardon, but tell me when the aluminum plants were dismantled and transported to the USA from Sayanogorsk and Krasnoyarsk?

              And why did you decide that the change of the Russian owner of the largest plant in Russia to a foreign one necessarily presupposes the physical movement of the plant from place to place - overseas to the United States, like some kind of furniture?
              What is this strange naivety you have ?!
              Yes, the plant is worth it and is in Russia, making a profit for new - foreign - owners, until they bankrupt this plant on Russian soil!
              1. Sistemnik
                Sistemnik 3 January 2021 20: 22
                +1
                Yes, the plant is worth it and is in Russia, making a profit for new - foreign - owners, until they bankrupt this plant on Russian soil!

                Until they are thrown out of here, like Hermitage.
          4. bar
            bar 3 January 2021 13: 38
            0
            Quote: Tatiana
            However, what do we have in Russia?

            I tell you about the technical aspect of the question, which the striped ones themselves doubted, and you about politics? No need for sad things ...
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak 3 January 2021 13: 22
          0
          Quote: ............
          an unprecedented event in the world of the military industry: to create hundreds of aircraft and carry out this entire production process (together with the export process) as part of tests.

          Tu - 4 was also immediately adopted, and tested along the way, and with 22 the same story.
      2. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 1 January 2021 15: 46
        +2
        Quote: RealPilot
        Add a second engine, modify the fuselage to roughly the Raptor.

        Business bullshit! Cope with it in a couple of months!
        1. Titus_2
          Titus_2 2 January 2021 01: 11
          +1
          And of course it's not expensive at all.
      3. Incvizitor
        Incvizitor 1 January 2021 17: 50
        +1
        It depends on what was supposed to justify ... many Chinese consumer goods fall apart in a day, but they buy it, and if the goal is to drive this garbage and earn money, then it justifies.
        1. raw174
          raw174 1 January 2021 18: 30
          0
          Quote: Incvizitor
          if the goal is to drive this garbage and make money, then it justifies

          Famously you ... The most perfect of the mass aircraft, call it rubbish
      4. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 1 January 2021 19: 41
        -2
        "Add a second engine, modify the fuselage to approximately the Raptor. Take into account the experience of Russia and China." ////
        -----
        Such an aircraft has already been created in a prototype.
        But it will replace the F-22 and F-15 as a long-range fighter
        to gain air supremacy.
        And the F-35 will continue to be produced as planned.
        The prototype was created by "Skunki works" - a secret
        a subsidiary of Lockheed.
        From the F-35, he will borrow electronics and, probably, developments in
        stealth.
        1. Alf
          Alf 1 January 2021 20: 20
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          secret
          a subsidiary of Lockheed.

          If the firm is secret, how do you know? And if you know, what is it secret?
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Such an aircraft has already been created in a prototype.

          Can I have a model?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 1 January 2021 21: 04
            -1
            Some of them have managed to create in the past:
            Skunk Works is an official pseudonym for Lockheed Martin's Advanced Development Programs (ADP), .. Skunk works engineers subsequently developed the U-2, the SR-71 Blackbird, the F-117 Nighthawk, F-22 Raptor ...
            Let's see what happens this time. recourse
            1. Alf
              Alf 1 January 2021 21: 10
              +1
              You claim that
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Such an aircraft has already been created in a prototype.

              Once again I will ask the question - name the model, in the quote you quoted someone once did something, but there is still no answer to my question. I wonder why ? Maybe because you took the information about the DONE prototype from the ceiling?
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 1 January 2021 21: 26
                -2
                You just have to watch the press. smile
                By the way, VO also had an article about this. Don't miss important
                articles on this site! fellow drinks
                Happy New Year!

                US Air Force Has Secretly Flown Full-Scale Prototype of Its Future Fighter Jet
                ----
                The US Secretary of State for Defense Procurement has officially stated this:
                The existence of the new demonstrator aircraft was revealed by Will Roper, the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics. According to Roper, the demonstrator is part of the Air Force's Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) project.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 1 January 2021 21: 30
                  -2
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  You just have to watch the press.

                  I have nothing else to do but watch out for the "enemy voices" laughing.
                  Someone else has to work .. fellow
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 1 January 2021 21: 32
                    +4
                    Then trust me - I browse the English-language press quickly
                    and regularly. Always happy to help hi good
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 1 January 2021 21: 35
                      +1
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      Then trust me

                      On the one hand, you can.
                      On the other hand, as grandfather Mueller used to say, "you can't trust people, you can do me." laughing
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 1 January 2021 21: 43
                        +4
                        I would not recommend taking Müller as
                        a role model in life. smile
                        Look up to Stirlitz: he trusted the ideologically dubious
                        Professor Pleischner and Pastor Schlag.
                        And he defeated Muller.
                      2. Alf
                        Alf 1 January 2021 21: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        I would not recommend taking Müller as
                        a role model in life.

                        There is something to be learned from the enemy.
                2. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 1 January 2021 21: 51
                  +2
                  Quote: Alf
                  there is nothing but to keep an eye on the "enemy voices".
                  Someone else has to work ..

                  1. Alf
                    Alf 1 January 2021 22: 01
                    +1
                    Two immortal military marches - Farewell of a Slav and Alte kameraden. From the first soul trembles, and from the second leg they begin to march.
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 1 January 2021 22: 12
                      +1
                      Quote: Alf
                      Two immortal military marches

                      Remember Normal ?! Here he drove the immortal marshik!
                    2. Alf
                      Alf 1 January 2021 22: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      Remember Normal ?! Here he drove the immortal marshik!

                      I haven't heard it for a long time ... It's time to translate it into Russian and start using it.
                    3. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 1 January 2021 22: 20
                      +4
                      Quote: Alf
                      I haven't heard it for a long time ... It's time to translate it into Russian and start using it.

                      Of course it's time! And you look at the faces of the workers, it's power!
                    4. Alf
                      Alf 1 January 2021 22: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      And you look at the faces of the workers, it's power!

                      That’s why the power of strong leaders is afraid to shit.
                    5. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 1 January 2021 22: 29
                      +2
                      Quote: Alf
                      That’s why the power of strong leaders is afraid to shit.

                      Comrade, Friend and Brother! It is impossible to kill and break us all !!! soldier
                3. bk0010
                  bk0010 2 January 2021 17: 21
                  0
                  Duc, at school they also taught singing:
                  And since we are all human beings,
                  We must - sorry! - there is something.
                  They want to feed us with empty chatter -
                  To hell! Thanks for the honor!

                  March left! Two! Three!
                  March left! Two! Three!
                  Join the ranks, comrade, to us!
                  You will enter our united working front
                  Because you yourself are a worker!

                  And since we are all human beings,
                  Then we need shoes without patches,
                  And the crackle of speeches won't warm us
                  Under the drum roll.

                  March left! Two! Three!
                  March left! Two! Three!
                  Join the ranks, comrade, to us!
                  You will enter our united working front
                  Because you yourself are a worker!

                  And since we are all human beings,
                  Do not let us hit our face with a boot.
                  No one will lift the whip on others
                  And he himself will not be a slave!

                  March left! Two! Three!
                  March left! Two! Three!
                  Join the ranks, comrade, to us!
                  You will enter our united working front
                  Because you yourself are a worker!

                  And since you are a worker,
                  Then do not expect another to help us:
                  We will gain freedom in battle
                  With your working hand!

                  March left! Two! Three!
                  March left! Two! Three!
                  Join the ranks, comrade, to us!
                  You will enter our united working front
                  Because you yourself are a worker!

                  March left! Two! Three!
                  March left! Two! Three!
                  Join the ranks, comrade, to us!
                  You will enter our united working front
                  Because you yourself are a worker!
  2. sabakina
    sabakina 2 January 2021 11: 36
    -2
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Let's see what happens this time. recourse

    I blinded him from what was,
    And then what happened, then I fell in love ... wink
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 1 January 2021 21: 11
    0
    If the firm is secret, how do you know? And if you know, what is it secret?


    Skunk Works is not a secret company, but deals with all new and secret projects - Lockheed Martin's Advanced Development Programs (ADP). They've been around since 1939 and have designed everything from the U2, SR 71, F22, F35 and more flying. Probably a colleague meant this.

    And now they are assembling a sixth generation model. We'll probably see him in a year or two.
  • dauria
    dauria 1 January 2021 19: 43
    -3
    Add a second engine, modify the fuselage to about a Raptor. Consider the experience of Russia and China. Work on bugs.


    Oh how! laughing Consider the experience of Russia and China .... Which themselves are in the tail with a lag of 15 years trying to catch up with the Americans. Yes, they took into account their own mistakes with the Raptor. Front-line aviation is needed not only to shoot down strangers left and right. 60% sorties to support your infantry. Air training and support for both defense and offensive. And a second engine and elephant dimensions are not always needed for this. This "Penguin" is a well-thought-out machine, jump out of your pants with anger. Airplane soldier.
  • Alf
    Alf 1 January 2021 20: 13
    +2
    Quote: RealPilot
    Add a second engine, modify the fuselage to about a Raptor. Consider the experience of Russia and China. Work on bugs.

    That is, create a new plane. Have you worked in production at least a day?
  • Cosm22
    Cosm22 1 January 2021 20: 42
    +1
    The experience of Russia, perhaps, should have been taken into account if it were able to produce at least one tenth of the cars of this class of the number already made in the USA.
    So far, the experience of the only Russian aircraft delivered to the troops and immediately crashed is hardly worth equal to.
  • VO3A
    VO3A 1 January 2021 22: 51
    -2
    There are very general comments! The F35 is not a multipurpose aircraft! It is designed more for covert reconnaissance and target designation! It is simply not needed in the stated quantities! This is where all the squats and the resumption of production of 4th generation aircraft come from! It was clear from the start! An even more disastrous concept of a single aircraft in 3 modifications ... It just happened what should have happened !!!
  • raw174
    raw174 1 January 2021 14: 23
    -1
    or not, only we have nothing to oppose their armads ... Fortunately, Russia has a strategic nuclear forces, otherwise we would also bow to the negroes ...
    1. Ilya-spb
      Ilya-spb 1 January 2021 15: 15
      0
      600 aircraft have already been produced. This is how much money they have mastered and earned?
      1. raw174
        raw174 1 January 2021 16: 40
        +1
        Obolon budget of the USA is 10 times bigger than ours ... They can afford it. We do not need to chase them and build up an army of the same scale until the United States can neutralize our nuclear weapons with 100% certainty, we are in relative military safety.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 1 January 2021 20: 22
          +1
          We don't need to chase them and build up an army of the same size.

          The states themselves waste this budget.
          We need to go our own way without their rake.
    2. Alf
      Alf 1 January 2021 20: 22
      -5
      Quote: raw174
      Fortunately, Russia has strategic nuclear forces, otherwise we would also bow to blacks ...

      Have they squeezed the aluminum industry away from Russia? Did the strategic nuclear forces help a lot?
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 1 January 2021 20: 50
        +4
        Squeezed the aluminum industry from Russia

        Nothing was squeezed from Russia. Don't talk nonsense.
        As there were factories in the Russian Federation, they are here.
        As they paid taxes to the budget, they still pay.
        And the fact that the profit goes not to the EBN Family, but to someone else, so this someone else now has something to lose. wink
        1. Alf
          Alf 1 January 2021 21: 04
          -4
          Quote: Alex777
          And the fact that the profit goes not to the EBN Family, but to someone else, so this someone else now has something to lose.

          And all my life I believed that the profit of an enterprise located on the territory of Russia should go to the treasury of Russia ..
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 1 January 2021 21: 09
            +4
            And all my life I believed that the profit of an enterprise located on the territory of Russia should go to the treasury of Russia ..

            You tell Boris Yeltsin, secretary of the CPSU. Under him, the profit went to Deripaska, instead of the "treasury of Russia" ...
            "They squeezed out" is your statement. So do you feel sorry for Deripaska? Has his profit decreased?
            1. Alf
              Alf 1 January 2021 21: 14
              +1
              Quote: Alex777
              So do you feel sorry for Deripaska? Has his profit decreased?

              There is no need to cast a shadow over the fence. I believed, believe and will believe that strategic sectors should belong only to the state and, accordingly, all profits should go to the treasury. And I don't give a damn about Deripaska, anyway the money he earned in Russia does not remain.
              And, by the way, now it is the Americans who will decide what, how much and how much they will sell to Russia.
              1. raw174
                raw174 2 January 2021 08: 08
                +3
                Quote: Alf
                ... I believed, believe and will believe that strategic industries should belong only to the state

                So they went on ... It is not always good for an enterprise to belong to the state ... I will not say about aluminum, but by the end of the existence of the USSR, which is relatively close to me, MMK had a rather depressing appearance due to the lack of modernization, as one told me an experienced factory worker, a director appointed by the state, does not need modernization, since this process is associated with risks, and he needs to sit out as calmly as possible until retirement ...
                1. max702
                  max702 3 January 2021 09: 27
                  0
                  Duc for this reason, in the USSR, nothing of what was being developed was not implemented .. Nafig is for the red directors, they have a plan, and when introducing something new, you can do it, while no new nishtyaks get equalization, she is like that .. So they came where you came to ..
      2. raw174
        raw174 2 January 2021 07: 59
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        Have they squeezed the aluminum industry away from Russia? Did the strategic nuclear forces help a lot?

        Well, firstly, the owner has changed, this is the norm, under the market and capitalism, and secondly, the question is: during the hostilities, was it squeezed out? It is not by chance that I focused on security in the MILITARY plan, because the presence of tens of thousands of the latest aircraft will not save you from sale, deception or betrayal ...
  • Zoldat_A
    Zoldat_A 1 January 2021 20: 03
    +2
    Quote: RealPilot
    Q.E.D!
    But there are no i-d-i-o-t-s, which is also confirmed ...

    I-d-i-o-t-s, only they know how to count money. Therefore, they realized that these F-35s can only be used by albes for export, but for themselves - an expensive and stupid toy.
  • max702
    max702 3 January 2021 09: 36
    0
    SchA will howl start in swamps such as skoko Armat, su-57 and other things in the troops? And the fact that the situation with the f-35 is exactly the same as they do not want to admit, because
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 1 January 2021 13: 47
    +1
    It even dawned on the mattress toppers that "the skin is not worth it"))))
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 1 January 2021 13: 52
    +1
    Suddenly ... I remember the story with "Spitfire" ... It's amazing that these stories do not teach anyone anything ...
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 1 January 2021 15: 49
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It's amazing that these stories don't teach anyone anything ...

      Oh, is it? Sawmakers and eyewitchers were very much taught how to act ...
    2. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 1 January 2021 20: 06
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      I remember the story with "Spitfire" ... It's amazing that these stories do not teach anyone anything ...

      Do you think, Evgeny, there are few of their own Serdyukovs in America? In my opinion, many times more than even here ...
    3. Alf
      Alf 1 January 2021 20: 24
      +1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      I remember the story with "Spitfire".

      And what was wrong with Spit?
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 1 January 2021 23: 39
        0
        He probably wanted to remind about the Hurricane.
        1. Alf
          Alf 2 January 2021 19: 56
          0
          Quote: sharp-lad
          He probably wanted to remind about the Hurricane.

          What's wrong with the Hurricane?
          1. sharp-lad
            sharp-lad 3 January 2021 16: 07
            0
            By the beginning of the war, he no longer met the requirements and was losing to German aircraft. hi
            1. Alf
              Alf 3 January 2021 22: 23
              0
              Quote: sharp-lad
              By the beginning of the war, he no longer met the requirements and was losing to German aircraft. hi

              But by the end of the French campaign and the Battle of Britain, it was the Hurricanes who shot down 2/3 of the Hans. The plane, of course, was not the first freshness, but it was possible to fight on it, and in the 42nd and later, yes, it was completely outdated.
              1. sharp-lad
                sharp-lad 4 January 2021 20: 18
                0
                Well, in 1941 both I 15 and I 16 were no longer the first freshness, but they were pulled out by knocking down the Nazis. Unfortunately, the lack of origin does not increase the flight characteristics of the weapon and only leads to unnecessary deaths of brave, good people. hi
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 1 January 2021 13: 52
    +2
    In what "media" are such horrors described? Please share.

    On December 28, Lockheed Martin announced the delivery of 2020 F-35 Lightning II fighters to customers in 123.
    The last F-35 this year was created at the final assembly plants in the Italian city of Cameri, which will receive the Italian Air Force (this plant builds aircraft for Italy and partly for the Netherlands). Upon completion of deliveries, this facility will become the largest service and logistics center for the program in continental Europe.
    According to the plans of the Lockheed Martin company, in 2020 the delivery of 141 aircraft, assembled on three lines (in the USA, Japan and Italy) should be carried out. The COVID-19 pandemic has triggered restrictions that have forced plans to change.
    Of the 123 fighters, 74 entered the US Armed Forces, the rest were received by export customers (94 F-35A, 20 F-35B and nine F-35C).
    So far, Lockheed Martin has produced over 600 production F-35 Lightning IIs, which fly from 26 land bases and warships around the world. The global flight time has exceeded 350 thousand hours. More than 1200 pilots and over 10 thousand technicians and logisticians have been trained. Six countries used aircraft in hostilities, nine announced the achievement of initial operational readiness.
    The development of the design, including the implementation of the new ODIN (Operational Data Integrated Network) logistics support system, has increased global operational availability to over 70% (13% more than in 2019). At the same time, it was possible to reduce operating costs by 40% compared to 2015.
    Casualties - On May 19, a US Air Force F-35A crashed near Eglin, Florida, due to pilot error while ejecting, and on September 29, an mid-air collision occurred between an F-35B and a KC-130J Super Hercules.
    Among the success of marketing should be called the signing of two contracts with new customers - Poland (32 in the F-35A version) and Singapore (four with an option for eight F-35B). In addition, the US Department of State has authorized the sale of 50 F-35A to the United Arab Emirates.





    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 1 January 2021 14: 02
      +2
      The question is a lack of understanding of the terms and features of the US bureaucracy. The final modulation of the mass use of these fighters must go through, after which the status of a mass fighter is issued. These tests cannot be carried out by the Pentagon itself, a matter of requirements and technical implementation. But this status does not affect anything. It is simply harmful to produce more than 140-160 aircraft per year. Iron orders until 2027, agreed until 2035.
      1. eklmn
        eklmn 1 January 2021 17: 35
        +2
        The delay is connected with the manufacture of a simulator on which it is possible to simulate air defense systems of Russia and China, that's all.

        The translated texts of the VO edition should be read between the lines, but it is best to find the original. option. And the texts will have, as they say in Odessa, two big or four small differences.
        Here orig. article
        (lane google)
        https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/22028435/lockheedmartin-f35s-full-rate-production-to-be-delayed-up-to-13-months-longer#:~:text=The%20Pentagon%20is%20delaying%20a,the%20military%27s%20chief%20weapons%20buyer.
        “The Pentagon is postponing the decision to launch the F-35 Lockheed Martin Corp. (IW500 / 24) for another 13 months due to the late start of simulation tests against the most advanced air defense threats emanating from Russia and China, according to the main purchaser of weapons by the military.
        A full-scale production decision was scheduled for December, but this week the F-35 program office decided, with the consent of Ellen Lord, Undersecretary of Defense for Procurement, that it takes more time to start the intense simulator tests that have yet to begin.
        This is just the latest in a string of delays: the decision to full-scale production - the most profitable phase for the contractor - was originally planned for 2012 when Lockheed won the fighter contract in late 2001.
        Despite the fact that the most thorough combat tests have not been completed, as of this month, more than 435 of the planned fleet of more than 3000 F-35s have already been delivered to the United States and its allies. The Marine Corps and the Air Force have flown aircraft on sorties against Middle Eastern targets, but only those that pose little or no air-to-air or air defense threat.
        Full production will mark the Department of Defense's approval for taxpayers that the $ 428 billion program has been fully tested, found to be effective against the highest level threats, and can be effectively implemented. Lockheed, headquartered in Bethesda, Maryland, is currently under contract 11.
        “I need to study the whole set of facts and work with the team,” before making a decision, which is likely to be made before Christmas, about the extent of the delay, Lord said in an interview after the Pentagon press conference. She said she wants to "also brief Congress" and "talk to them."
        Although the aircraft has conducted hundreds of aerial drills during the current combat tests, it must also be simulated for the most challenging threats that cannot be replicated in flight.
        The F-35 pilot will fly in a "fully functional 360-degree view simulator" that displays air and ground threats and also includes Allied aircraft, the F-35 program office said in a statement. The flight training data is being used to prepare and certify the simulator, which has yet to be completed, the office said.
  • kill the fascist
    kill the fascist 1 January 2021 13: 53
    +4
    The cream has been removed from the program, it's time to come up with a new program
  • anjey
    anjey 1 January 2021 13: 55
    +1
    In fact, this is an unprecedented event in the world of the military industry: to create hundreds of aircraft and carry out this entire production process (together with the export process) as part of tests. It turns out that the Pentagon itself confirms the purchase of "raw" aircraft from the Air Force, the Navy and the US Marine Corps.
    The F-35 for the Yankees and potential customers is an obsessive advertising, developed, international marketing, sales all over the World, in a word - Big Business, but as a real and effective weapon - apparently they also have a Big Question laughing ..
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 1 January 2021 13: 59
    +5
    Actually, this is news from 27.10.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX. The news is published here promptly)))
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 14: 09
      +3
      No, it's different, dated December 31st. Just as usual there is no link to the source.
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 13: 59
    +5
    In fact, this is an unprecedented event in the world of the military industry: to create hundreds of aircraft and carry out this entire production process (together with the export process) as part of tests.


    Is it? There was a fighter in the USSR (I don't remember exactly the model), which was mass-produced, was in parts, but it was not officially adopted for service.
    1. Alf
      Alf 1 January 2021 20: 30
      +1
      Quote: Eye of the Crying
      In fact, this is an unprecedented event in the world of the military industry: to create hundreds of aircraft and carry out this entire production process (together with the export process) as part of tests.


      Is it? There was a fighter in the USSR (I don't remember exactly the model), which was mass-produced, was in parts, but it was not officially adopted for service.

      YAK-28.
  • askort154
    askort154 1 January 2021 14: 03
    +3
    The largest public relations company in the USA in the 20th century. She will certainly go down in the history of management, how to promote your product. Not separate "companies" were divorced, but dozens of states were brazenly divorced.
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 14: 05
    +3
    It is noted that such a postponement "for an indefinite period" is due to the fact that the so-called operational tests of F-35 fighters have not yet been completed in the United States and other countries. The complex of these tests is designated as IOT & E.


    Is there a link to the application? Bloomberg writes (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-31/pentagon-keeps-398-billion-f-35-s-full-rate-production-on-hold) that the point is not in "operational tests", but in a simulator on which you can simulate battles with Russian and Chinese fighters.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 1 January 2021 16: 08
      +2
      "but in a simulator where you can simulate battles with Russian and Chinese" ///
      ----
      Right. This imitator was supposed to be made for the Pentagon by an independent firm - not Lockheed.
      And she failed the task. The task turned out to be too difficult technically.
      But the Pentagon has pledged to Congress. And without this simulator, the F-35 formally cannot
      get the status of "full combat readiness".
      1. Do not care
        Do not care 1 January 2021 16: 41
        +5
        On my own I will add that you should not comment on VO articles without reading the original news. One small but very important detail was missed here: full-scale production was postponed not for an "indefinite period" but for an indefinite date in 2021, that is, for less than a year.
        Such distortions turn the article from informative to propaganda material.
      2. lucul
        lucul 1 January 2021 21: 09
        -2
        But the Pentagon has pledged to Congress. And without this simulator, the F-35 formally cannot
        get the status of "full combat readiness".

        Why do you need a simulator ?? Our repeatedly offered amers to conduct training battles, so to speak, to check in action, and not on a simulator))))
        They always refuse ...
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 22: 12
          0
          Quote: lucul
          Why do you need a simulator ??


          Yes, like everyone else (you, for example) - to conduct training battles cheaply, often and in large quantities.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 1 January 2021 14: 12
    0
    3500 pieces declared for production are not enough! You need at least 9000, otherwise someone will not take part in the program for sawing hundreds of billions of dollars, nothing will stick to his or their hands crying lol
  • Avior
    Avior 1 January 2021 14: 21
    +3
    According to the results of operation, improvements are always made, hidden defects and unsuccessful design solutions are caught, which appear only with experience of mass operation.
    There is an option to refine it in parts - but it is more logical to make changes during mass production.
    1. boris epstein
      boris epstein 1 January 2021 17: 20
      +1
      And at the same time, so that hidden defects and unsuccessful design solutions were caught and risked not by American pilots, but by allies. Something reminds me of "Operation Y". "Go and practice on cats."
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 17: 26
        0
        Americans have more F-35s than anyone else, so their pilots are at greater risk.
        1. boris epstein
          boris epstein 1 January 2021 17: 30
          -1
          Read below the comment of user voyaka uh. "... 600 aircraft in 10 countries."
          "Until 2028, the Pentagon should receive 1000 F-35s of all types." Just have to get it!
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 17: 32
            +2
            Please read my comment carefully and name a country that has more F-35s than the United States. Then we can talk about whether the United States has more F-35s than all other countries combined.
            1. boris epstein
              boris epstein 1 January 2021 17: 34
              -1
              Name pliz figure. There is no figure in your comment. There is nothing to compare with.
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 17: 40
                +2
                Quote: boris epstein
                Name pliz figure.


                375 by mid-2020. Then: "The service accounts for nearly half of all the F-35s of all variants delivered worldwide, so far" ("the service" is USAF).

                Quote: Boris Epstein
                There is no figure in your comment. There is nothing to compare with.


                Nevertheless, you began to argue.
                1. boris epstein
                  boris epstein 1 January 2021 17: 50
                  -5
                  Anyone who has studied mathematics for at least a threefold will tell you that 600 is significantly more than 375. Moreover, the Canadians have already tried to abandon the supply of the F-35. It didn't grow together, they were tilted. And below is my comment on the PLANNED F-35 deliveries to the Air Force and the United States Marine Corps. But not before the US catches "hidden defects and unsuccessful design solutions" on cats.
                  1. The eye of the crying
                    The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 18: 03
                    +4
                    Quote: Boris Epstein
                    Anyone who has studied mathematics at least a threefold will tell you that 600 is significantly more than 375.


                    Isn't Russian native to you? I said that the United States has more F-35s than any other country. And anyone who knows arithmetic (not even mathematics) at least threefold understands that 375 out of 600 means that the United States has more F-35s than the rest of the world. And the risk for American pilots is greater than for all others combined.
              2. boris epstein
                boris epstein 1 January 2021 17: 41
                -3
                Production
                Country F-35A F-35B
                USA 1763 340
                Air Force 1763
                Navy
                KMP 340
                This is PRODUCTION, that is, purchase contracts.
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 17: 52
                  +2
                  Contracts for the purchase of non-produced aircraft are not of interest. Name a country that has more F-35s than the United States. Real flying planes.
                  1. boris epstein
                    boris epstein 1 January 2021 18: 01
                    -6
                    So out of 375 cars in the United States, half are flightless. The test pilots refuse. Oxygen equipment is lousy, the temperature in the cabins is high, helmet-mounted display equipment is failing. They were returned to the factory for revision.
                    1. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 18: 06
                      +2
                      Yeah, all 375 repeat
      2. Avior
        Avior 1 January 2021 18: 09
        +1
        Any serious flaws are corrected at a much earlier individual stage.
        Now emerge those that appear randomly or with a group application.
        Most go to the States, and analyze there, the rest are supplied with a minimum number of Aircraft for training and personnel training. The staff will be ready for mass production.
  • Sergei 23
    Sergei 23 1 January 2021 14: 57
    -2
    The C400 bought by Turkey changed the approach to the 5th generation. This is my personal subjective opinion.
  • CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 1 January 2021 14: 58
    +3
    Over time, the F-35 will be the main fighter in NATO, the countries of the British Commonwealth, many countries of the Asia-Pacific region, primarily India, and above all, as an excellent commercial project will oust all competitors in this area of ​​weapons systems, only the Chinese can compete with the Americans due to the low cost, in the long term we are likely to lose our traditional customers of our Su and Mig in foreign countries, our main customers are the countries of the former USSR, and countries in confrontation with the United States, there we need to work very seriously with service and logistics
  • Shahno
    Shahno 1 January 2021 15: 07
    +1
    // In fact, this is an unprecedented event in the world of the military industry: to create hundreds of aircraft and this entire production process (together with the export process) to be carried out as part of tests. It turns out that the Pentagon itself confirms the purchase of "raw" aircraft from the Air Force, Navy and the US Marine Corps.
    Well, yes, the product is also unprecedented. There were no cases of large-scale production of next generation fighters. "Raw" in the understanding of previous experience.
    Ps. No question, if someone misunderstands the development process, please. Within the limits of what can be communicated.
  • Shahno
    Shahno 1 January 2021 15: 22
    -3
    The penguin did not live up to expectations. 123 cars were pulled out with a constant change in delivery schedules ... due to coronavirus hysteria.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 1 January 2021 16: 02
    +3
    Israel needs one hundred of these "raw"
    airplanes. smile
    And the Air Force can be considered re-armed.
    100 F-35 are equivalent to approximately 200-250 F-16.
    ---
    2020 new F-123s were produced in 35.
    This is less than planned (the covid "took" about
    20-25 aircraft).
    But the total number in operation in 10 countries has exceeded 600 aircraft.
    Until 2028, the Pentagon should receive 1000 F-35s of all types.
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 1 January 2021 16: 18
    -1
    3 F-200s are powerful, of course.

    3 * 200 million dollars = 80 billion dollars.

    The F-35 is a serious fighter-bomber and the US and NATO will have a lot of them.
  • Petr Vladimirovich
    Petr Vladimirovich 1 January 2021 16: 47
    +2
    For jokes. 1976, the Union presented the NRK with the MiG17 squadron. Support - for the division. They collected it, our pilot moved from Angola, shot there, bombed the Yuarians from the heart. I have mastered the base of joint deployment, everything is working, I went so low over Brazzaville. The people in the bazaar were hiding under the counters, they thought Zaire attacked ... All from NG !!!
  • fa2998
    fa2998 1 January 2021 18: 23
    +2
    Quote: RealPilot
    Q.E.D!
    But there are no i-d-i-o-t-s, which is also confirmed ...

    Quote: RealPilot
    By and large, the Penguin did not live up to expectations. It's true.

    What to prove, what hopes? It is already produced well. We should surpass at least a quarter of their production (150 fighters a year). Su-57 for so many years 1 (one) delivered, and not in the troops of the testers. hi
  • faterdom
    faterdom 1 January 2021 18: 38
    0
    It is necessary to inform them that if he does not urgently rivet 3200 pieces, we will brazenly laugh at them, and at any convenient moment, of course, we will attack the Balts and Poles. Because we are bored and we are very aggressive - we only have a child, we are already preparing to attack someone ...
    Especially if a Pole or Romanian is staring at him with round eyes! Well, yes, say that he is Bulgarian? What's the difference?
  • zwlad
    zwlad 1 January 2021 18: 50
    -1
    How unexpected is that. Evolution cannot be fooled. Penguins do not fly!
  • APASUS
    APASUS 1 January 2021 19: 29
    +1
    In fact, this is an unprecedented event in the world of the military industry: to create hundreds of aircraft and carry out this entire production process (together with the export process) as part of tests. It turns out that the Pentagon itself confirms the purchase of "raw" aircraft from the Air Force, the Navy and the US Marine Corps.

    1 This gives the Pentagon time and additional funding to "complete" the program!
    2 Relieves the operator of any responsibility, because in fact it is a prototype being tested
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 1 January 2021 21: 28
    +2
    ... Pentagon: Decision to increase production of F-35 fighters postponed indefinitely
    The American media reported a statement by Pentagon representatives about the postponed decision on the start of full-scale production of F-35 fighters.

    Well, poor Britons, to build two aircraft carriers for an aircraft that did not live up to their hopes ... And also the Japanese ...
    The Turks can be said to be lucky that they did not have time to buy ...
  • indy424
    indy424 1 January 2021 23: 02
    +1
    I wonder if any of the commentators bothered to find the original link to the "us press"? because in English it seems to be similar, but to put it mildly, not the same
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 23: 05
      +1
      Quote: indy424
      I wonder if any of the commentators bothered to find the original link to the "us press"?


      At least two, and the links are different winked
      1. indy424
        indy424 1 January 2021 23: 08
        +1
        so I just saw. true. but does this really completely change the meaning of the article?
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 1 January 2021 23: 11
          +1
          Yes of course. As noted above, the material that could be informative turned out to be propaganda.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • GRANATE-19
    GRANATE-19 2 January 2021 11: 57
    -2
    Where is liberation !?
  • Turist1996
    Turist1996 2 January 2021 18: 47
    -1
    Well, let's face it, MiG-19s have long been in the air defense regiments, not yet in service - a long known fact ..
    But, in what I agree, the international situation then and now was sharply different.
  • The comment was deleted.