Military Review

US Navy: Destroyer John McCain challenges Vietnam's excessive claims to waters south of Ho Chi Minh City

88

The US military disputes Vietnam's rights to a part of the South China Sea around the resort island. Therefore, on Thursday, the US Navy destroyer "John McCain" carried out an operation in the area to ensure freedom of navigation.


The press service of the 7th fleet United States Navy.

US guided missile destroyer John McCain challenged Vietnam's "excessive claims" over the South China Sea about 150 miles south of Ho Chi Minh City, where the Con Dao archipelago is located.

It consists of 16 islands, most of which are uninhabited. The main island of the Kon Son archipelago is home to several beach resorts and fishing villages.

The ship conducted routine operations in Vietnam's declared territorial waters to challenge its excessive maritime claims and maintain access and freedom of navigation in accordance with international law.

- said in the message of the press service of the 7th Fleet of the US Navy.

Vietnam claims that its maritime domain extends to Kon Dao. But a 1983 US State Department report said the islands were "not close enough to mainland Vietnam" to be considered the baseline of its territorial waters.

As you can see, in this case, too, the United States is trying to position itself in the role of the world gendarme - and even where no one asks for "assistance" at all.
Photos used:
Facebook / USS John S. McCain
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  1. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 28 December 2020 13: 50
    -2
    Anticipating numerous comments about the name of EM URO - these are not the McCains you are looking for. smile
    EM is named after the senator's grandfather and father. The first fought in WWII and WWII, the second in WWII and during the Vietnam War.
    1. vkl.47
      vkl.47 28 December 2020 13: 57
      +13
      McCain's father was an admiral, so he felt fine in captivity. In the photo when he was released, he was with casts and an exhausted face. The next day he was already bawling without casts. As if there was nothing.
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 28 December 2020 17: 18
        +5
        As you can see, in this case too The United States is trying to position itself as the world's gendarme - and even where no one asks for "assistance" at all.

        Familiar position of Americans from Washington / Pentagon, especially since the advent of the UNIPOLAR world after the collapse of the USSR.

        1. cormorant
          cormorant 28 December 2020 20: 14
          +1
          Mattress toppers are up to challenge until the Vietnamese themselves invite us to Cam Ranh.
      2. Grits
        Grits 29 December 2020 10: 38
        0
        Quote: vkl.47
        and the next day he was already bawling without casseroles, as if nothing had happened.

        As if painlessly pulled the watch from a safe place
    2. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 28 December 2020 14: 18
      +1
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Anticipating numerous comments

      The question is not which McCain. The question is what kind of Vietnam. Cho, have you forgotten how you fled from Saigon like rats? A generation of non-combatant generals has grown up? Do you want to wave your hands? Well, try it, wave it. Are you not enough plastics from Iraq and Libya? There are already more losses in Afghanistan than we had in 10 years. Now plastics will also come from Vietnam - and this is significant for America. Let them try Vietnam - we stock up on popcorn and don't laugh until the last batch.
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 28 December 2020 14: 47
        +13
        What plastic, from what Vietnam?
        Without the USSR, no one will voluntarily trample against the United States alone.
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 28 December 2020 14: 54
          -6
          Quote: Alex777
          What plastic, from what Vietnam?

          I'm talking about that.
          .

          The generals who did not fight want - they will receive ...
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 28 December 2020 15: 14
            +4
            tlauicol (Ivan) Today, 15:07
            Zoldat A lied a little. Speaking of plastic, there is no one in the coffins in the photo - this is a protest in Carolina
            1. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A 28 December 2020 15: 47
              -6
              Quote: Alex777
              tlauicol (Ivan) Today, 15:07
              Zoldat A lied a little. Speaking of plastic, there is no one in the coffins in the photo - this is a protest in Carolina

              Will we find fault? The first thing I found was that I poured it out. For the sake of a negative comment, did I have to dig up half of the Internet? You think too highly of the importance of your person. And they saw better, they drank vodka with the governors ...
        2. jovanni
          jovanni 28 December 2020 17: 06
          +2
          Quote: Alex777
          What plastic, from what Vietnam?
          Without the USSR, no one will voluntarily trample against the United States alone

          And Vietnam is not the same. They almost forgot about the USSR, and about help, respectively. Like everything by yourself ...
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 28 December 2020 17: 09
            +4
            Vietnam and Cuba are not the same. We missed them ourselves.
            They say that one cannot enter the same water twice.
            But the States can still get everyone and help us. bully
        3. Grits
          Grits 29 December 2020 10: 40
          +1
          Quote: Alex777
          What plastic, from what Vietnam?
          Without the USSR, no one will voluntarily trample against the United States alone

          Plus, China will only fuel the desire of the United States to attack and will clearly not be on the side of Vietnam.
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 29 December 2020 12: 31
            +2
            Yes. China is no longer an assistant to Vietnam.
            Previously, all aid to the USSR went through him. hi
        4. Evil Booth
          Evil Booth 29 December 2020 10: 59
          0
          the slides are of high quality, and not aka Putin knocks down a Boeing Iranian missile strike. The footage shows that several objects on the territory of the base have been destroyed.
          then 60 wounded were recognized on the footage of more than visible demolished buildings with an MTO a few meters from the aircraft.
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 28 December 2020 14: 50
        +6
        In Afghanistan and Africa, less than 2500 Americans died in the 21st century
        1. kot423
          kot423 28 December 2020 14: 57
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          less than 2500 Americans in 21th century

          And they started "carrying crap" at 21? You count from the moment of their 1st attempt, and it's not a fact that of. mattress statistics reflect reality.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 28 December 2020 15: 07
            -2
            Well, you can count from the 18th century, divide by time and find out that the losses are minimal, and Zoldat A lied a little. Speaking of plastic, there is no one in the coffins in the photo - this is a protest in Carolina
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 16: 00
            -1
            There were definitely no different Blackwaters.
        2. poquello
          poquello 28 December 2020 23: 11
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          In Afghanistan and Africa, less than 2500 Americans died in the 21st century

          what
          US military casualties are estimated at more than 2400 dead and 20 wounded by mid-000. This does not take into account the losses of private military companies, among whose fighters there were also many American citizens. The IRGC of Iran announced the number of 2019 dead American soldiers, noting that the official data did not include US military personnel with foreign citizenship, which are not so few.

          https://topwar.ru/170956-bolshie-poteri-i-gromkie-porazhenija-ssha-v-afganistane.html
        3. Evil Booth
          Evil Booth 29 December 2020 11: 00
          0
          in a battle on a building with citizenship, but half of those campaigners did not have citizenship))) and not in a battle on the back but on a mine? and PMC?
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 29 December 2020 11: 57
            0
            including mine explosions and IEDs, of course. This is the main reason for losses. Are you now trying to confirm Zoldat's words that their losses are already higher than Soviet ones? Well, press with arguments, not fairy tales
            1. Evil Booth
              Evil Booth 29 December 2020 15: 32
              0
              wai wai! the morning forest began with fog)) do you still have a link to quint at least and what they consider to be a loss of current with civilization and half of the warriors do not have it? zamaetes)) the whole world fiercely hates those who arranged the Maidans and bombed them, and the presidents were killed by sanctions and so on, all sorts of things there))
        4. Igor Kobernik
          Igor Kobernik 29 December 2020 11: 03
          0
          Sometimes it's better to remain silent .... This is -You ... What does the 21st century have to do with it? The Americans have been sitting there since the 90s of the last century ... And the total losses are much higher ...
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 29 December 2020 12: 00
            0
            Quote: Igor Kobernik
            Sometimes it's better to remain silent .... This is -You ... What does the 21st century have to do with it? The Americans have been sitting there since the 90s of the last century ... And the total losses are much higher ...

            much higher than what? do you agree with ZoldatA? so he just lied on the blue eye.
    3. credo
      credo 28 December 2020 14: 35
      +2
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Anticipating numerous comments about the name of EM URO - these are not the McCains you are looking for. smile
      EM is named after the senator's grandfather and father. The first fought in WWII and WWII, the second in WWII and during the Vietnam War.

      And what, this somehow justifies the gendarme manners of the United States?
      It is common knowledge to all sane people that no one authorized the United States to intervene in the resolution of interstate disputes far from their shores.
      So yankee go home.
    4. halpat
      halpat 28 December 2020 22: 02
      +3
      Shaw ?? right in the Gulf of Tonkin ?? Again? smile
    5. Lionnvrsk
      Lionnvrsk 28 December 2020 22: 30
      +3
      Quote: Alexey RA
      these are not the McCains

      Yes, they are all smeared with one world! Type-heads! This USS John S. McCain DDG-56 at first tried to show off with us, but quickly retreated when Vinogradov moved on to him. Then the Chinese shooed him out of their waters. Now they decided to show off in front of the Vietnamese. No.
  2. Captan78
    Captan78 28 December 2020 13: 51
    +23
    But apparently, these territories are very close to the states .... Fabulous ..... why were they only released from the hospital?
    1. Serpet
      Serpet 28 December 2020 13: 58
      +34
      Quote: Captan78
      these territories are very close to the states

      Vietnam is already close to the United States. Just like Russia to NATO ...
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 28 December 2020 14: 10
        +9
        Quote: Serpet
        Vietnam is already close to the United States. Just like Russia to NATO ...

        Well, if they wanted to send the 2nd American Fleet to the shores of Belarus, then Vietnam too, is next to the states.
    2. URAL72
      URAL72 28 December 2020 14: 08
      +8
      Can they build 6 more submarines of pr. 636.3? Su-30mkv already exists, it's time to sell 2-3 Su-35 regiments. The money is there. And necessarily an echeloned air defense system.
      1. Evil Booth
        Evil Booth 29 December 2020 11: 01
        0
        or one hundred zirconia at half price
    3. Eldorado
      Eldorado 28 December 2020 14: 25
      +4
      Never mind, Vietnamese corvettes of our construction and "Varshavyanka" will heal every McCain's head!
    4. DIM (a)
      DIM (a) 28 December 2020 14: 42
      +7
      Aha! California's borders stretch to the coast of Vietnam! )
  3. Falx
    Falx 28 December 2020 14: 00
    +11
    they care about everything. recently in the Gulf of Peter the Great something was disputed ...
  4. Sergey-8848
    Sergey-8848 28 December 2020 14: 00
    +10
    EM "McCain" is not the first time acting in the old cavalry traditions - galloped, shit and galloped away. The task of the press services is to clothe the atrocities of the US Navy in a fine form so that many are led to songs about democracy, freedom of navigation and other blizzards thousands of miles from the Americas
  5. Wedmak
    Wedmak 28 December 2020 14: 02
    +13
    The impression is that this ship is specially sent to run up and arrange provocations.
    Additional operations .. one day you can accidentally stumble upon a World War II mine ...
    1. Orange bigg
      Orange bigg 28 December 2020 14: 22
      +7
      Possibly. By the way, in Vietnam, our X-35 anti-ship missiles are produced under license, but there is some other Vietnamese name. I don't remember now. But I don’t think it will come to application. The Americans will bother a little and calm down. They act like street gopniks. And in fact, already with everyone who comes to hand. Uncle Sam's roof has gone completely.
    2. Grits
      Grits 29 December 2020 10: 47
      0
      Quote: Wedmak
      It seems that this ship is specially sent to run up and arrange provocations

      However, no matter how offensive it may be, one must admit that this ship really manages to go everywhere. And in the Sea of ​​Japan and in the South China and in the Mediterranean and in the Black. Our ships never dreamed of such agility.
  6. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 28 December 2020 14: 06
    +1
    operation to ensure freedom of navigation belay Somali pirates showed up?laughing
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 28 December 2020 14: 08
    +2
    What is that?
    No Vasya with anyone except subordinates?
    1. cniza
      cniza 28 December 2020 14: 24
      +6
      This is ostentatious bravado and it will not bring to good ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 28 December 2020 14: 35
        +1
        They walk back and forth, exchanging notes-concerns.
        Business then.
        1. cniza
          cniza 28 December 2020 16: 31
          +3
          No, the United States arranges provocations ... they need tension in this region ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 28 December 2020 16: 33
            +1
            Yes there and so there is no peace for a long time and thoroughly.
            Everyone is trying to hold back, not to go over the edge.
            1. cniza
              cniza 28 December 2020 16: 38
              +2
              So the United States is stirring up there, then against China, then Vietnam ...
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 28 December 2020 16: 40
                +2
                For minke whales, this is "normal" ... and the locals are not very friendly anyway, they cannot divide the islands.
                1. cniza
                  cniza 28 December 2020 16: 44
                  +3
                  Yes, there, in my opinion, Japan and Taiwan are still claiming, the knot is still the same ...
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 28 December 2020 16: 47
                    +1
                    Well, yes, warm lands are in a hurry to turn into hot ones ...
                    1. cniza
                      cniza 28 December 2020 16: 50
                      +3
                      This is exactly what the United States is trying to achieve, they need local conflicts ...
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 28 December 2020 16: 59
                        +3
                        Striped arsonists are famous, worthy disciples of the arrogant from the islands.
                      2. cniza
                        cniza 28 December 2020 17: 09
                        +3
                        This is their business, they make good money on it ...
                      3. rocket757
                        rocket757 28 December 2020 18: 19
                        +2
                        "firemen" are much, much harder.
  • Orkraider
    Orkraider 28 December 2020 14: 11
    +3
    Interesting))
    And I don’t remember that the Con Dao archipelago was disputed in Vietnam, it seems that it is not included in the disputed zone:
    disputed territories in the East China and South China Seas. Several states claim to separate groups of islands. Thus, China and Vietnam dispute the ownership of the Paracel Islands; the Spratly archipelago - Vietnam, China, Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei; Scarborough Reef - Philippines and China.



    Maybe that's why the Americans intervene because they liked the island from a historical point of view:
    The main (and only inhabited) island of Konson was once a French prison for Vietnamese members of the independence movement.
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 28 December 2020 14: 14
    0
    "Daddy" carried out another "operation to ensure freedom of navigation" .. I am sure that during this action the Moremans are serving in diapers, life jackets and with rations in the bite with a whistle in the mouth ... Just in case ... For they are still alive among the people, the circumstances of the "Tonkin incident".
  • cniza
    cniza 28 December 2020 14: 23
    +2
    The US military disputes Vietnam's rights to a part of the South China Sea around the resort island. Therefore, on Thursday, the US Navy destroyer "John McCain" carried out an operation in the area to ensure freedom of navigation.


    Here it is, everyone begs ...
  • Guru
    Guru 28 December 2020 14: 24
    +1
    Slap Vietnam, I wonder what this is?
    1. the most important
      the most important 28 December 2020 16: 12
      +2
      Quote: Guru
      Slap Vietnam, I wonder what this is?

      This is Trump's hi to Biden. Biden doesn’t run across countries solving conflicts. It's good for us too. Vietnam's memory was refreshed.
      1. Grits
        Grits 29 December 2020 10: 54
        +1
        Quote: the most important
        It's good for us too. Vietnam's memory was refreshed.

        well yes. And then something that recently he too zealously began to flirt with his former enemies and occupiers
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 28 December 2020 14: 28
    +5
    It seems to me that the Yankees got very excited. For there is a regime of free passage for ANY ships and peaceful passage of warships. And all this is from the 1982 Geneva Conference.
    During the straight archipelagic lines additional geographic conditions must be met:
    - the baselines should include major islands and an area in which the ratio of water surface area to land area, including atolls, is between 1: 1 and 9: 1;
    - the length of the baselines must not exceed 100 nautical miles, except that up to 3% of the total number of baselines enclosing any archipelago, can be up to 125 nautical miles long.
    Waters within straight archipelagic baselines are considered archipelagic waters. Ships of all countries enjoy the right of innocent passage through these waters. However, archipelagic states may establish sea and air lanes with a special archipelagic passage regime provided for in Article 53 of the 1982 Convention.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 28 December 2020 14: 43
      +3
      They didn't get excited rather, but showed their "coolness" and once again showed off their "operation". In my opinion, they no longer know where to put their hundreds of ships, where to attach them. For their direct use, there is not much where to use them without big problems and a little shame, so they roam the oceans, "operations" are carried out ...
    2. Crimean partisan 1974
      Crimean partisan 1974 28 December 2020 16: 22
      0
      The US military disputes the rights of Vietnam to a part of the South China Sea around the resort island. .... great ... why did not (McCain) look into the Spratly archipelago ... see glasses
  • Alien From
    Alien From 28 December 2020 14: 40
    0
    Ponty next from the mattresses, not interesting.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 28 December 2020 14: 51
    +1
    Are there not many Pedrov in Brazil? Are there few McCains in Vietnam?
  • Dmitry Makarov
    Dmitry Makarov 28 December 2020 14: 54
    +2
    The Vietnamese had already shot down one McCain with a Soviet missile, now another one has appeared.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 28 December 2020 15: 07
    +6
    In Vietnam, gritting their teeth, they do business with the United States, they just understand that it is impossible without them! And then there is such an incident, with a violation of the border. Why is it to the Americans? Check for answer
  • Outsider
    Outsider 28 December 2020 15: 11
    -12%
    Quote: kot423
    Quote: Tlauicol
    less than 2500 Americans in 21th century

    And they started "carrying crap" at 21? You count from the moment of their 1st attempt, and it's not a fact that of. mattress statistics reflect reality.

    - Democracy was carried to Afghanistan by Soviet servicemen at the behest of Lenka Brezhnev ...
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 16: 06
      +1
      Michael, you are in a puddle as usual. Democracy in our country is carried by the Omerigans, with bombs, napalm and chemistry. And in terms of civilian little people tortured, beaten and crippled after the Second World War, we definitely cannot compare with them. They are ahead of the rest of the world in killing a peaceful man.
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 28 December 2020 15: 12
    +2
    Quote: Wedmak
    showed their "coolness" and once again showed off their "operation".

    Probably just showing their "determination" to defend the "freedom" of navigation, on which no one encroached. It could be a hint to whales, as well as training around the Paracel Islands. But there are whales ... and they will not be silent ... Besides, they have something to oppose to "lonely McCain" ...
    The "wild carousel" might be spinning soon.
    IMHO.
  • Gato
    Gato 28 December 2020 15: 48
    0
    Yeah, now, according to the laws of the genre and the cyclical nature of history, Vietnamese torpedo boats should appear somewhere nearby. Or missile. Who will cynically humiliate the American destroyer. About the Tonkin incident - no, not heard.
    1. Ryaruav
      Ryaruav 28 December 2020 16: 13
      +1
      Sergei they don't have enough money for the next Tonkin incident
    2. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 28 December 2020 19: 20
      0
      You can run into "your" mine, they once seeded the sea around Vietnam very densely in order to annoy our steamers.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 28 December 2020 16: 02
    0
    How strange the United States behaves. Yes, we and I. For freedom of navigation. Yes, you go with your freedom of navigation! Who has not sent them already. Masochists. Maybe they like it?
  • Pereira
    Pereira 28 December 2020 16: 06
    0
    Has he filed a lawsuit?
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 28 December 2020 16: 11
    +1
    it's easy for the Americans, it's not about butting with the Chinese Navy
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 28 December 2020 16: 12
    -2
    Do the striped ones want to go in the second circle, did they really not have enough luli in the sixties? request
  • Yaro Polk
    Yaro Polk 28 December 2020 16: 30
    0
    Do these star-striped Amerzes, in general, have such a human feeling, like CONSCIENCE, or is it completely absent from their birth? what
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 28 December 2020 17: 30
    +2
    And Vietnam is for sho?
    They are friends now, the Americans even give them their ships, which they fired at them not so long ago.
    And the Vietnamese themselves remember with greater pleasure about all kinds of Rimbaud than about the pilot "Li-si-tsyn".
    And here such a slap in the face ?!
    Why, what did they want?
  • eklmn
    eklmn 28 December 2020 17: 42
    -3
    “As you can see, in this case, too, the United States is trying to position itself in the role of the world gendarme - and even where no one asks for“ assistance ”at all.”
    Now what's in the press release:
    https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/2454462/uss-john-s-mccain-conducts-freedom-of-navigation-operation-in-south-china-sea/
    “The United States disputes excessive maritime claims worldwide, regardless of the identity of the claimant. International maritime law, reflected in the 1982 Convention on the Law of the Sea, provides certain rights and freedoms, as well as other legal uses of the sea, for all countries. No member of the international community should be intimidated or coerced into giving up their rights and freedoms. ”
    “China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines all claim sovereignty over some or all of the Spratly Islands. China, Vietnam and Taiwan require either a permit or prior notification before a foreign warship makes "innocent passage" through the territorial sea. According to international law, as reflected in the Convention on the Law of the Sea, ships of all states, including their warships, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea. The unilateral imposition of any permission or prior notification requirements for innocent passage is not permitted under international law, therefore, the United States contested these claims. ”

    In general, the Editorial Board should remember Lenin's behest, who said:
    "Learn English - the source of knowledge." And after a pause, he added: "And money too." In the context of the press release, it is clearly stated, why the Americans entered these waters - to prove the freedom of navigation.
    Russia does not have the funds for the passage of the fleet in permitted waters, not to mention the passage in the disputed seas. Besides, butting with China, Vietnam, the Philippines - for what? Here Russia does not pry there - it is great, but it is not going to tease its druzhbanov, tk. itself declares part of the neutral waters its territory. Spit, so to speak, on the rules when it is profitable ...
    1. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 30 December 2020 13: 30
      0
      "According to international law, reflected in the Convention on the Law of the Sea" - the one that they don't sign? No, their position, as in every barrel of the plug, is understandable. But this does not mean that everyone should approve of such missions, on the contrary. The more states suppress such American idiot missions, the sooner the Americans themselves will eventually abandon them.
  • Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 28 December 2020 18: 03
    0
    Was he caught from the lake and put in a hole? Otherwise, do not rub ... But seriously: you Americans will overstrain the whole world to control. You have neither mind nor imagination for that. There may have been a hundred years ago, but those days are over.
  • Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 28 December 2020 18: 06
    0
    By the way, did these ukakalschikov adopt the name Ho Chi Minh on their maps? Ltd...
  • Arctic
    Arctic 29 December 2020 09: 48
    0
    They haven't driven out mattresses yet :)
  • Anachoret
    Anachoret 29 December 2020 18: 12
    0
    Anything called "McCain" is always aiming for Vietnamese cesspools.

    After all, the story about his father's gold watch from "Pulp Fiction" is clearly from there)
  • d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 30 December 2020 13: 23
    0
    Another mission of "American idiot".
  • Outsider
    Outsider 30 December 2020 19: 30
    0
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Michael, you are in a puddle as usual. Democracy in our country is carried by the Omerigans, with bombs, napalm and chemistry. And in terms of civilian little people tortured, beaten and crippled after the Second World War, we definitely cannot compare with them. They are ahead of the rest of the world in killing a peaceful man.

    - In Afghanistan, out of 20 million inhabitants of that time, Soviet soldiers killed ~ 1 million people, crippled ~ 3.5 million. And for about the same time, the Americans in Vietnam have very similar numbers of civilians killed and wounded! You just don't know.
    You can also clarify how many humane Russian troops killed people in Chechnya (just don't think that I "love" Chechens very much ...) - according to various sources, from 60 thousand (minimum) to 120 thousand (maximum).
  • Outsider
    Outsider 28 January 2021 13: 05
    -1
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Michael, you are in a puddle as usual. Democracy in our country is carried by the Omerigans, with bombs, napalm and chemistry. And in terms of civilian little people tortured, beaten and crippled after the Second World War, we definitely cannot compare with them. They are ahead of the rest of the world in killing a peaceful man.

    Here is just an approximate parity: the Americans killed about 1 million people in Vietnam - and Soviet soldiers killed ~ 1 million people in Afghanistan, and made 3.5 crippled - out of 20 million who lived there at the beginning of 1980 ...