UAV "Hunter" can be used as a "destroyer" of shock drones "Bayraktar"

Not so long ago, there were reports of regular tests of the Russian heavy strike drone "Hunter", developed under the project S-70. At the same time, it was indicated that the drone was tested, among other things, as an unmanned interceptor. It is this characteristic of the promising Russian UAV Okhotnik that caused a special discussion among experts and ordinary readers interested in air force topics. The topic is also discussed in the foreign expert community.

In particular, one of the areas for discussion is related to the possible use of the "Okhotnik" in the Russian Aerospace Forces as a means of destroying attack drones. At the same time, it must be stated that today only a few states of the world possess self-developed strike UAVs, in the full sense of the word. Among them are the USA, Turkey, Israel, China. Taking into account the fact that in the past few months the Turkish attack UAVs Bayraktar-TB2 have been actively used in hostilities, it is assumed that the "Hunter" can be tested as a means of destroying just such drones.

Here it should be noted a certain probability that Russian specialists have Turkish Bayraktar UAVs at their disposal. Such Drones were shot down by one means or another of the Libyan National Army of Marshal Khalifa Haftar in Libya, by the Armenian air defense systems of Nagorno-Karabakh. These facts give reason to say that technologies, including those that reveal the functionality of data exchange, could at least theoretically be studied by Russian specialists.

Taking this into account, the use of the Hunter as a "destroyer" of Bayraktar attack drones - as one of the manifestations of direct air interception - is not something incredible. For such operations, the Hunter can act autonomously. And its very appearance in the sky over a particular combat zone where attack UAVs are used can become a decisive factor for these UAVs to cease to be used there ... Here one should also take into account the clear advantage of the Hunter in altitude and speed. Open sources indicate that its practical ceiling is about 18 thousand meters (the ceiling of "Bayraktar" is about 8 km), and the speed in high-altitude echelons is about 1 thousand km / h. This a priori provides the ability to perform combat missions to "accelerate" or directly destroy the Bayraktar-class attack UAVs in virtually any conditions.

Comments

[Reserve buildbat]

Yeah. And an electron microscope can hammer in nails.

[Ross xnumx]

UAV "Hunter" can be used as a "destroyer" of shock drones "Bayraktar"

We are more interested in its real capabilities (results of practical application), rather than theory and scientific assumptions.

[Alex777]

I came across information that the Su-57 can simultaneously control 12 Hunters.
It will be interesting to get confirmation from other sources.

[Sergey Valov]

Su-57 may be, but will its pilot cope with it?

[Alex777]

The two-seat Su-57 was discussed recently.

[Sergey Valov]

And where is he? Forum discussion and the realities of life are different universes.

[Alex777]

Do you want everything at once? I see...

[Sergey Valov]

Even if I want to, I don't believe in it, I'm a realist and a pessimist in one bottle.

[Maikcg]

Well, he's not controlling them with a joystick. Say let's say to his followers:

And the pack of Hunters will already figure it out on their own. In computer games with aviation, something does not bother anyone too much to manage a pack of subordinate artificial idiots. And the computer puffs more over visualization than over the calculation of the actions of bots.

[Sergey Valov]

Real military equipment and computer games are different worlds.

[Rome]

There was information that the pilot in the Su57 was not actually engaged in piloting, but was fighting, and if necessary, the plane could fly by itself while the pilot was busy with other tasks. And on the VO there was once a note that the Chinese believe that the Su57 is actually not an airplane, but the first combat robot!
Therefore, what can the Su57 do and what the pilot is actually doing in it, this is still an interesting question !?

[Basalt]

Probably, AI will already work here - to issue target designations and form flight missions for the "Hunters". Not so long ago I read that the Americans conducted about a thousand battles of pilots against AI on flight simulators. Man has not won a single one, so the new era of scientific advances, instead of making life easier for people, is more frightening.

[Sergey Valov]

Everything that is now called AI is essentially a computer program of varying degrees of complexity and is written on the basis of acquired experience. However, in real life it very often happens as Bismarck said - the Russians responded to our military cunning with unpredictable stupidity.

[VO3A]

Yes, that's all nonsense! The Su-57 should be able to fly the S-70 at the lowest level for backup in case of emergency! The main control and collection of information is at a higher level ... At this level, the Su-57 is the same element of the global system as the S-70 ... But the global system is tight, even if the concept will be given ... And since there is no common combat information system, its simplest bundles are given as the highest achievement. This is the lowest level, so to speak, from hopelessness, there is no universality, there is no possibility of interaction, everything is unique at a primitive level ... Just like the SAS fighters, instead of a UAV in Syria, from complete hopelessness, they become heroes posthumously ... Yes and no. so far nothing, not only the S-70 with its invented capabilities, but also the Su-57!

[tikhonov66]

"...
Like the SAS fighters, instead of a UAV in Syria, from complete hopelessness, they become heroes posthumously ...
..."
- there you go - again you are lying ...
8 - ((
-The fact is, "Unrespected", that about those SAS fighters who became heroes "not posthumously" - you CANNOT KNOW ...
8-)))

- well, like they ask the hero of Russia (working in the GRU) - And what were you awarded for?
- Yes, I don't know ... - he answers
8-))

[VO3A]

you DO NOT KNOW ...

See a doctor, maybe they will help, or maybe they will put it on record ... I will not talk about Alexander Prokhorenko!
Here is another example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2XTDJHhooo&t=3s

[Nychego]

Quote: Alex777

It will be interesting to get confirmation from other sources.

Only a real conflict with a clash of these and other weapons systems will be able to show what and what is worth.

[qwertyui]

so real so far nothing seems to be

[bk316]

And an electron microscope can hammer in nails.

What does the microscope have to do with it?
It is known that large attack UAVs are easier (and cheaper) to shoot down with fighters.
The hunter is in every way cheaper than drying, so it is even more suitable for this.
Here the question is in technical capabilities, that is, in the sighting system and weapons for hitting air targets.

[Reserve buildbat]

For bayraktars and others, the simplest propeller (turboprop) UAVs are enough. The S-70 is an apparatus designed to solve many times more complex tasks than knocking down dead crows.

[bk316]

For bayraktars and others, the simplest propeller (turboprop) UAVs are enough.

Have you seen somewhere (not necessarily here) a "simple propeller-driven" UAV capable of detecting, pursuing and destroying air targets at an altitude of 8 km. Let at least not in the series but in the prototype. If you have seen, please share the link (thanks in advance), if you have not seen, do not do it.

[Reserve buildbat]

Don't you think that the characteristics and capabilities of the S-70 are unnecessary for the destruction of bayraktars? It is easier and cheaper to bring something like Altair than to pave with gold

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Stroibat stock

Easier and cheaper to bring something like Altair

Hey.
You see what's the matter. Altair against Bayraktar, this is the same as Bayraktar against Altair, do you understand? Approximately equal.
And therefore, the result is not predictable.
And when you start a conflict, you need to be sure that the result suits you.
Therefore, of course, the Hunter in this case is certainly the best option from the nearest cash.

[Reserve buildbat]

Good evening. If Altair is used as a carrier of "Needle" missiles, then speed and maneuverability are not important. And there is room for equipment.
"Hunter" is designed to destroy many times more complex targets, respectively, it carries much more effective means of observation and aiming and is designed to use much more powerful means of destruction from it. Its capabilities are simply redundant.

[KCA]

Do you think there is an IR seeker for missiles like "Needles" capable of aiming at ICEs or electric motors of drones? And the use of a radar seeker will increase the missile to the size and weight applicable only to heavy UAVs, thereby returning to the "Okhotnik"

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Stroibat stock

If you use Altair

Here the whole point is that Bayraktar versus Altair, or vice versa, is the same as hunting roe deer for roe deer. Those. the result is not 100%.
They and Bayraktaru can suspend missiles with IR seeker.
And the Hunter against Bayraktar is already a cheetah against a roe deer. And in this fight, the roe deer have no chance at all ..
Do you understand?

[MstislavHrabr]

Now, if a hunter could give target designation for Altair, then it would be another matter ...

[Rome]

What's so hard, a bunch of UAVs is a bunch of bobbles! One Yak52 with an outboard machine gun and a DOSAAF cadet are the cheapest means to combat UAVs over their territory! The main thing is that the enemy does not fly into the air defense zone! Strange as it may seem, but a sports plane is, in my opinion, an order of magnitude or orders of magnitude cheaper than an uav and only one person in control, and the UAV has a whole team

[OgnennyiKotik]

Isn't it a pity to send a man to death? If you take Turkov Bayraktar and Anka, these are the first signs. They have Aksungur in the series went, Akinchi will go next year. They will already have AFAR and air-to-air missiles. Until 2023, jet unmanned UAVs Mius and Goksungur will go into production (they say that this one will be supersonic). Which will be in a fighter configuration.
The attack on Bayraktar and Anki will unmask the attacker and will be shot down by the older UAV models.
We need a full-fledged UAV fighter, like Boeing's Loyal Wingman. More precisely, a whole family on a single platform.

[Rome]

Naturally, there is no need to send a human to drones with explosives! Although the question of tactics, probably, the UAV with its AFAR should look behind the protected object so as not to miss an attack on it! And who will look after the UAV with AFAR? First you attack him, and then you take off the drummers. Then what will the UAV, the propeller-driven aircraft attack? They like IR seeker are poorly guided, and if they are, what prevents them from hanging the same on their hawk? All the same, the pilot of the aircraft has a better orientation in space than the UAV team, and he is still in the position of a hunter, which means he has initiative, and even over his territory. True, such a pilot is no longer a DOSAAF cadet, but at least a "green" fighter pilot, he will just fill his hand.

[Smooth]

You see what's the matter. Altair against Bayraktar, this is the same as Bayraktar against Altair, do you understand? Approximately equal.
And therefore, the result is not predictable.

Let me disagree with you, dear colleague. Meeting in the air Ju-87 and, for example, La-5, during the Great Patriotic War, was quite predictable. Perhaps even predetermined. Specialization is specialization, on the one hand.
On the other hand, our economy is growing at full growth. "Bayraktar" is incommensurably cheaper than "Hunter". What does it mean? It's very simple. There is no way to provide the required number of "Hunters" to neutralize all possible uses of "Bayraktars".
And what you need? And what is needed is a SPECIALIZED UAV interceptor commensurate in cost, preferably loitering (with a short response time to a threat) and, most importantly, at the disposal of platoon-company commanders.
Further. I read the comments here. For some reason, most colleagues believe that the interceptor must necessarily have on board the means of detecting enemy UAVs. What for? Nobody canceled the possibility of targeting from the ground. The interceptor is left with cheap equipment for communication with the command post and cheap equipment (IR or TV) for direct weapon guidance. In general, the scheme is the same as for the interceptors of the 50s, such as the MiG-17, MiG-19 or MiG-21. They, too, did not have a full-fledged radar station, but a radio sight.
Now about the fantasy. Namely - about the means of destruction. In order not to "pinch" a hunting shotgun to the UAV, it is quite possible (and quite quickly) to create a specialized shotgun or a small-caliber NAR, sharpened to combat the UAV. Moreover, the NAR block is preferable, since it is recoilless (no recoil) and simple, like a drum stick, which means it is cheap. Whether it is necessary to design specialized guided missiles to intercept UAVs like Bayraktar is a big question. For me personally, this need is not obvious.
Something like that...

[bk316]

Don't you think that the characteristics and capabilities of the S-70 are unnecessary for the destruction of bayraktars?

Superfluous, well, the su-57 is superfluous for the F-15, and the su-35 for the F-16. This is what is called superiority fighters. They should be superfluous in order to calmly solve their problems without feats.

It is easier and cheaper to bring something like Altair than to pave with gold

We have nothing like that. And Altair is not there either. Moreover, no one said that Altair would be able to work on air targets. Perhaps it will be necessary to change the radar. In addition, Altair is not suitable in terms of speed, it is practically equal to a biker.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Stroibat stock

Don't you think that the characteristics and capabilities of the S-70 are unnecessary for the destruction of bayraktars? It is easier and cheaper to bring something like Altair than to pave with gold

Well done, Vanya! So their "all sorts"! I agree with you that the "Hunter" is "redundant" for the fight against Bayraktars TV2! A smaller and simpler drone is sufficient for this! It is a pity that some tovarischi do not understand this, but only "crumble a loaf"!

[aleks26]

Quote: Stroibat stock

Don't you think that the characteristics and capabilities of the S-70 are unnecessary for the destruction of bayraktars?

And what, apart from bayraktars in the world, our "partners" have no more drones? And more high-rise, and faster and much more expensive than bayraktars.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: bk316

Have you seen somewhere (not necessarily here) a "simple propeller-driven" UAV capable of detecting, pursuing and destroying air targets at an altitude of 8 km. Let at least not in the series but in the prototype. If you have seen, please share the link (thanks in advance), if you have not seen, do not do it.

So it's not over yet. But from a cannon to sparrows, too, somehow not very good.

[venik]

Quote: bk316

Have you seen somewhere (not necessarily here) a "simple propeller-driven" UAV capable of detecting, pursuing and destroying air targets at an altitude of 8 km.

========
We saw, we saw !!! And with us! Pli-and-from:

UAV interceptor, designed at the Student Design Bureau of Aviation Modeling (SKB-AM) of the Moscow Aviation Institute by order of JSC Concern VKO Almaz-Antey. It is armed with a 12-gauge Vepr 12 Hammer smoothbore carbine with an electronic escapement and a 10-round box magazine. On trials Beat down in "air combat" actively maneuvering small UAV target (though from the third approach ) and not at an altitude of 8 km, but somewhat .... lower .... BUT - Beat down! ("Down and Out trouble started"!). By the way - takes off and sits down - VERTICAL!
Sources:
https://rossaprimavera.ru/news/49c82931;
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3583656.html?page=2;
https://lenta.ru/news/2019/04/01/nightmare/
and more

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: venik

An interceptor UAV designed at the Student Design Bureau of Aviation Modeling (SKB-AM) of the Moscow Aviation Institute by order of Concern VKO Almaz-Antey. It is armed with a 12-gauge Vepr 12 Hammer smoothbore carbine with an electronic trigger and a 10-round box magazine.

I have already posted this "interceptor" in one of the comments (even a video ...) ... But the point is that this is a concept (!) ... an experimental sample! This sample is not intended for adoption! It is meant to test some crazy ideas! On the basis of this concept, it is possible to develop a more perfect "advanced" version! But Voz-Mozh-Na!

[venik]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

This sample is not intended for adoption!

=========
Duc and I, what serial called him? The pepper is clear - the guys took the model, installed the radio control, screwed on the shotgun ..... And - voila! Flies and even Knocks down! means - CAN?!

[Thorvlobnor IV]

http://www.wing.com.ua/content/view/27723/36/
the Ukrainians are clearly trying to adapt ultralight aircraft to shoot down low-speed UAVs. They will put a machine gun on Aeroprakt - and forward, as in the 1st World War.

[tikhonov66]

"...
They will put a machine gun on Aeroprakt - and forward, as in the 1st World War.
..."
- That machine gun will give a burst - and "Aeroprakt" will STOP ... You understand, nobody canceled the recoil ... Well, then - "into a tailspin"!
- pay attention - the "student model" shown to the tower - shoots SINGLE !!

[loki565]

Probably you can hang a couple of MANPADS and an optical station, the question is in speed and carrying capacity.

[bk316]

Probably you can hang a couple of MANPADS and an optical station, the question is in speed and carrying capacity.

Hang? Have you ever designed? Well, something quite simple.
Have you tried to put xenon on a vaz or for example a Rhine marin on a boat fireworks?

[venik]

Quote: bk316

Have you ever designed? Well, something quite simple.
Have you tried to put xenon on a vaz or for example a Rhine marin on a boat fireworks?

=======
Aha! AND more difficult - also!!!
And you???

[bk316]

And you???

There was a case.
Well, explain how you are going to pair the optical station (by the way, which one) with the MANPADS (which by the way) and why specifically MANPADS and not a V-V missile? Where will you feed all this joy, how in the end will you secure this MANPADS with clamps for the tube? By the way, I have not yet seen a MANPADS working without preliminary target acquisition, how does a baykatar actually get into a MANPADS sight? And the rocket will not destroy the UAV with a jet stream?
Is the UAV fuselage generally designed for such loads? Answer these questions, everything is simple ...

[venik]

Quote: bk316

Well, explain how you are going to pair the optical station (which by the way) with the MANPADS (which by the way) and why exactly MANPADS, and not the V-V missile?

=========
Well, about MANPADS, then the respected "loki565" obviously meant missiles like "Igla" / "Verba", as the most small-sized и homing, and therefore the most suitable for such tasks. By the way, they are used, incl. and as a weapon of air combat:
Igla MANPADS on the Mi-28 pylon:

------

Quote: bk316

Where will you feed all this joy

==========
From the same place where all the UAV electronics are powered - from the on-board network!
-------

Quote: bk316

how in the end will you fix this MANPADS with clamps for the tube?

==========
Approximately the way it was attached to the Mi-28 helicopter (they are also attached to our other machines: Mi-24 and Ka-52). You can use lightweight suspension units - one "tube" for each pylon. Structurally, this do not eat a big problem.
--------

Quote: bk316

By the way, I have not yet seen MANPADS working without prior target acquisition.

===========
And this should mean that they DO NOT EXIST?
By the way - I haven't seen either, but nevertheless - they ARE !:

MANPADS "Blowpipe". GOS is absent. Radio command guidance. Britain 1972

MANPADS RBS-70, Sweden, 1977. GOS does not have, it is guided by a laser beam (more precisely, it flies "in the beam".

MANPADS "Javelin", "Britain, 1984. GOS has no, radio command control.

--------------

Quote: bk316

how does the baikatar actually get into the sight of MANPADS?

=========
And HOW does it (target) get into the sight of the MANPADS gunner? In this case, obviously, not without the help of an optical location station (OLS), similar to those that are installed on all domestic fighters.

-------

Quote: bk316

And the rocket will not destroy the UAV with a jet stream?
Is the UAV fuselage generally designed for such loads? Answer these questions, everything is simple ...

=========
First, it won't destroy. And that's for sure! Checked (experimentally ) 45 years ago, when our "smart" children (or rather teenage) heads came up with a "grandiose" idea to launch a model of a rocket from a radio-controlled aerobatic model of an aircraft. Fortunately, the rocket modeling circle at our Station of young technicians was located "door to door" with our aircraft modeling ...... I went like a mother! Only the airplane swayed noticeably at the moment of launch ..... And then the wing had to be tinted ..... But the sight was GREAT!
You can, of course, use the "catapult" method (this is how CDs are launched from the internal suspension of bombers).
So everything is simple .... Unless of course "turn on the brains"
That is WHY the UAV itself should be destroyed when the rocket is launched - this is completely UNCLEAR! What are these destructive forces should act on him? Moreover, there are quite small in weight and dimensions IMPACT UAVs (the same "Bayraktar"), using missiles!

[tikhonov66]

"...
And the rocket will not destroy the UAV with a jet stream?
..."
- Dear "developer", - You surprise me ...
The overwhelming majority of powerful "rockets" - FIRST UNHOOT from the aircraft suspension - and begin to free fall, And only after that they turn on the main accelerating engine.
- Look, for example, a video with the launch of the "dagger" ...
8-)))

[tikhonov66]

", ..
Hang? Have you ever designed?
..."
- nuuuu - vascheto a video camera with "gimble" -suspension - can be installed on any UAV - ELEMENTARY ...
This is the same functionally complete unit - together with built-in accelerometers, camera position drives and even its own video transmitter ..
- I ordered a kit with instructions in China, received it by mail - attached it to the UAV - and everything works!
- and this is the materiel!

[Anar]

Well, dead crows in Syria and Libya and Karabakh made a fuss. And until now, no one has stopped the dead crows, I emphasize absolutely no one .... Conclusion, one should not underestimate the enemy.

[tikhonov66]

"...
And until now, no one has stopped the dead crows, I emphasize absolutely not who ...
..."
- and again you are lying ... 8 - ((
If, “no one stopped the dead crows, I emphasize absolutely no one,” then our base in Syria would no longer exist ...
- learn materiel!

[onstar9]

Quote: bk316

What does the microscope have to do with it?
It is known that large attack UAVs are easier (and cheaper) to shoot down with fighters.
The hunter is in every way cheaper than drying, so it is even more suitable for this.
Here the question is in technical capabilities, that is, in the sighting system and weapons for hitting air targets.

It's a good idea to chase mosquitoes .... There are drones and 200 kg. The main thing is not to hit them under the belly of some small unnoticed drone ...

[Runoway]

With the word

CAN

every day you can rivet so much news
Up to the point that it MAY IN THE FUTURE SHUTDOWN SATELLITES AND MAKE INTERSTELLAR FLIGHTS

[businessv]

Quote: Stroibat stock

And an electron microscope can hammer in nails.

But I definitely cannot agree with this, colleague! Have you seen him personally? Electron microscope! Bulky and heavy contraption.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: businessv

Have you seen him personally? Electron microscope! Bulky and heavy contraption.

And you? Or only Russian-made?
Pliz:

[Reserve buildbat]

This is not a microscope, but a toy. I have 3 of them in my warehouse. Not sold in 7 years. So please don’t confuse a scientific instrument with children's entertainment.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Stroibat stock

This is not a microscope, but a toy. I have 3 of them in my warehouse. Not sold in 7 years. So please don’t confuse a scientific instrument with children's entertainment.

Young man! You are like in that famous movie:

[bk316]

And you? Or only Russian-made?

Yuri Balabolych, how is it possible, is it really not a shame?
An electron microscope is a bandura with half a room

Yes, you can't even put it in an ordinary house, it must have special grounding.
And you are a picture of a DIGITAL microscope, which cunning sellers sell blondes like an electronic one (it connects to a computer!)

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: bk316

Yuri Balabolych, how is it possible, is it really not a shame?

If you were not sent to your mother, this does not mean that you are a good son. My middle name is Vasilievich. Do you distinguish between the principles of magnification (optical and digital)? There are digital cameras, digital devices, digital microscopes and your anachronism in this area and knowledge, except for laughter, causes nothing ... Are you trying to insult me? Read here:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Электронный_микроскоп

Major world manufacturers of electron microscopes
Carl Zeiss NTS GmbH - Germany
FEI Company - USA (merged with Philips Electron Optics)
Hitachi - Japan
JEOL - Japan (Japan Electron Optics Laboratory)
Tescan from Czech Republic
Delong Group - Czech Republic
KYKY - China
Nion Company - USA
FOCUS GmbH - Germany
Coxem from Korea

Description
Electronic portable USB microscope with the ability to capture video and photos. The microscope is a fully functional instrument that, when connected to a computer, allows you to see an enlarged image of objects up to 500 times. In addition to this, you can record a video clip or take photos for storage and later viewing.
Matrix - 2 MegaPixel
Resolution - 640x480 and 1600x1200
LED backlight
Powered by computer

And you, not only have rested (stared), as a representative of the artiodactyl family from the bovine family, at the new gate, and even pull up some "sang along" to the discussion. You will learn to acknowledge existing facts, rather than be guided by your self-conceit ...
Facts in the studio or "Hände hoch" (hands up) ...

[bk316]

Facts in the studio or "Hände hoch" (hands up) ...

Please

Will you admit you're wrong?
Or spit the dew in the eyes?

And on occasion he sang along, these are just people who have mastered the course of the Soviet secondary school (where they told how the electron microscope differs from the optical one), which is apparently not given to you.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: bk316

Will you admit you're wrong?

To admit that the dumbass didn't even bother to read the definition of an electronic device?

Electronic device - an electronic device / device created from electronic components (the principle of operation of which is based on the interaction of charged particles with electromagnetic fields), used to convert electromagnetic energy (for example, to transmit, process and store information).

It is because of such stubborn scientists and various Ph.D. we lag behind the manufacturers of electronic devices, because we cannot find a ground electrode at home ...

 Show / Hide text

Once again I will read the insulting nickname - we will understand at the level of the moderator, if you have not been taught the rules of good manners in public.

[businessv]

Quote: ROSS 42

And you? Or only Russian-made?

I, of course, saw, that's why I say! And you did not use the word "portable"! Be more precise, colleague!

[Vitaly Pogrebnyak]

This microscope is just a piece of lewdness.

[venik]

Quote: ROSS 42

Quote: businessv

Have you seen him personally? Electron microscope! Bulky and heavy contraption.

And you? Or only Russian-made?
Pliz:

=========
My friend, do you at least understand the DIFFERENCE between a "digital" toy and an "ELECTRONIC MICROSCOPE" ??? Then take a look at at least "Wikipedia" !!!
".....an electron microscope is a device that allows you to image objects with maximum magnification up to 10⁶ times, thanks to the use, unlike an optical microscope, instead of a light flux, electron beam with energies of 200 eV - 400 keV and more...... "
Translucent electron microscope JEOL JEM-ARM200F

PS Learn materiel and you will be happy ...

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: venik

My friend, do you at least understand the DIFFERENCE between a "digital" toy and an "ELECTRONIC MICROSCOPE" ??? Then take a look at at least "Wikipedia" !!!
"..... an electron microscope is a device that allows you to image objects with a maximum magnification of up to 10⁶ times, thanks to the use, unlike an optical microscope, instead of a light flux, an electron beam with energies of 200 eV - 400 keV and more ... .. "

I have a feeling that I am talking to the madmen in a well-known institution (Kanatchikova dacha)

An electron microscope (EM) is a device that allows one to obtain an image of objects with a maximum magnification of up to 10⁶ times, due to the use, in contrast to an optical microscope, instead of a light flux, an electron beam with energies of 200 eV - 400 keV or more (for example, transmission electron microscopes of high resolution with an accelerating voltage of 1 MV).

Watch your hands:

allowing you to image objects at maximum magnification up to 10⁶ times

UP TO 10⁶ times !!!
Remember the annoying ad there:
"From twenty ... from twenty"
So, "up to 500 times" is included in the interval "from 0 to 10⁶"
The main difference between an electron microscope (in the general concept of a device) is the principle of magnification !!!
NOT THROUGH LENSES, BUT ELECTRONIC ELEMENTS ...

[venik]

Quote: ROSS 42

I have a feeling that I am talking to the madmen in a well-known institution (Kanatchikova dacha)

=========
Me too! And not just crazy, but also not educated ("3 classes of the parish school"), decisively unable to understand the difference между photons forming an image in an optical microscope (regardless of whether a lens system or a semiconductor photosensitive matrix is ​​used as an eyepiece) and electrons, forming an image in the "eponymous" microscope!
-------------

Quote: ROSS 42

The main difference between an electron microscope (in the general concept of a device) is the principle of magnification !!! NOT THROUGH LENS BUT ELECTRONIC ELEMENTS ...

===========
Those. do you think that there are NO lenses in an electron microscope ??? Are you serious??? Hard case!
I must tell you (a big secret of course!) That they are there - ARE! (only t-s-s-s! This is a big secret!) .... Just the role of lenses (focusing and defocusing) in an electron microscope is performed by electromagnetic field certain configuration. Which is understandable, given that
The devices that create it are called "electromagnetic lenses"
Short educational program (device and principle of operation of an electron microscope):

In an electron microscope, a stream of electrons (1) is created by a heated tungsten cathode (2) of an electron gun (3) and is focused by the upper (4) and lower (5) electromagnetic lenses. Then the electrons pass through the annular hole (6) and the scanning coil (7) and are finally focused by the projector lens (8) on the sample under study (9). The whole process takes place in a vacuum, air is removed by a pump (10). The work of the scanning coil, which directs the beam so that it passes over the entire object, is controlled by a computer. The sample is placed in the air chamber (11) and manually set to the desired position (12). The image of the object under study appears due to the fixation of electrons reflected from the object (13). The movement of these electrons is correlated with the shape of the object's surface; they are detected when they hit the fluorescent target (15) of the detector (14). The resulting image is displayed on the computer display (16).
And what you have deigned to demonstrate to the public in the photo is nothing more than an ordinary OPTICAL microseop (because the image is formed by PHOTONS visible spectrum where eyepiece replaced by a light-sensitive semiconductor matrix and display! AND NO MORE!
This is of course more convenient, but resolution microscope DOES NOT HAVE any influence! The name "electron" for such microscopes was invented absolutely illiterate "sales managers"!
PS There is a saying: "Of the two disputing - one fool (for they do not know, but argues), the other is a swindler (because he knows, but supports the dispute) ".
PPS Since by virtue of my specialty and profession I had to work a lot on electron microscopes, the question: "who is who" is up to you! (This is for you "kanatchikova dacha")!
Sincerely ( ), Vladimir, (Ph.D. 01.04.07) solid state physics).

[bk316]

NOT THROUGH LENSES, BUT ELECTRONIC ELEMENTS ...

But no, NOT WITH THE HELP OF ELECTRONIC ELEMENTS, BUT WITH THE HELP OF A BEAM OF ELECTRONS.
You see, not photons, but electrons.
What you are writing about is a digital optical microscope.
Energy of 400eV will simply burst this toy.

[tikhonov66]

"...
Have you seen him personally? Electron microscope! Bulky and heavy contraption.

And you? Or only Russian-made?
Pliz:
..."
- Are you Joking? !!
This "never" is not an ELECTRONIC microscope - it is an ELECTRIC (!!) - feel the difference.
Bo ELECTRONIC microscope is one in which the image is built not by LIGHT WAVES, but by the method of CAPTURING THE FLOW OF ELECTRONS SCATTERED by the object of study It is used when studying objects with dimensions LESS THAN THE LENGTH OF THE LIGHT WAVE - i.e. with linear dimensions - LESS than 300 nanometers (3exp-7 meters = 3exp-3 millimeters = 0.001 millimeters). It is not necessary, I think, to say - that the electron beam (which scans the object) - can propagate ONLY IN HIGH VACUUM (which implies the presence in the column of the microscope that forms the electron beam and the studied object itself IN HIGH (!!!) VACUUM - i.e. the presence of at least a fore-vacuum and diffusion vacuum pumps under the "microscope") and the formation of an electron beam is performed, usually with an overclocking voltage of at least 100000 (one hundred thousand) volts and subsequent "MAGNETIC lenses" - and all this is by no means COMPACT. In a word - nature - you WILL NOT REMEMBER it ...

see for example MODERN German ELECTRONIC microscopes
https://www.veld.kz/index.html?id=4150

- and this is MATCH!

[Reserve buildbat]

The one I saw was impossible to lift. It was on a concrete base, weighing several tons itself, and occupied half a room.

[bk316]

it was impossible to lift

Uh-huh, I posted a photo of one of the most compact (Japanese). How can they hammer a nail in my mind?

[Reserve buildbat]

About this "Japanese" Chinese production, I have already answered
Don't confuse toys with scientific equipment

[poquello]

Quote: bk316

it was impossible to lift

Uh-huh, I posted a photo of one of the most compact (Japanese). How can they hammer a nail in my mind?

well, it's elementary, take apart the microscope, find a suitable part, hammer a nail in it, assemble the microscope

[halpat]

Quote: stock buildbat

The one I saw was impossible to lift. It was on a concrete base, weighing several tons itself, and occupied half a room.

lamp:))
and they called it "electronic" because electrons run around in the wires, transmit current.

[Reserve buildbat]

transistor)))) An excellent unit, which is already about 50 years old, but the image quality is still better than that of the "new fashionable"

[Mavrikiy]

For such operations, the Hunter can act autonomously. And its very appearance in the skies over a particular combat zone where attack UAVs are used can become a decisive factor for these UAVs to cease to be used there ...

Will be able to shoot down successfully, what doubts, but ..... front width for one "Hunter"? Rather, it is not a "destroyer" of the Bayraktar shock drones, but a guaranteed "umbrella".

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Stroibat stock

Yeah. And an electron microscope can drive nails

Have you seen the electron microscope live? It is very difficult for them to "score" anything ... Optical - you can ... well, not everyone.

[loki565]

The question is how he will detect them, what kind of radar is there, what missiles, while everything is very blurry.

[venik]

Quote: stock buildbat

Yeah. And an electron microscope can hammer in nails.

=========
Can! And very effective! ..... If, of course raise (electron microscope)!....

[Reserve buildbat]

I'll raise it. By crane. After several hours of preparatory work. And with due care I will even hammer in a nail

[My doctor]

Quote: Stroibat stock

Yeah. And an electron microscope can hammer in nails.

At your leisure, see what an electron microscope looks like.

[Reserve buildbat]

Read the comments at your leisure. So as not to look like a giraffe.

[poquello]

Quote: stock buildbat

Yeah. And an electron microscope can hammer in nails.

here is the first thought is the same right away, they would modify the flying Kalash for these purposes, although also why - the difficulty is to detect bayaktars in time

[Hermit21]

Hospade, went crazy with their "Bayraktars". Soon the Xperds' shiza will become so aggravated that the S-500 will be called a means of dealing with them.

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: Hermit21

Hospade, went crazy with their "Bayraktars"

To the point. The Turkish apparatus is certainly interesting. But there is a more serious adversary with its technologies. The USA, Israel, for example, "X-47B" .. If the HUNTER can handle them, then I think the turret will not be a problem.

[Andre___86]

Maybe he can't. If he can, we'll talk.
Now let them say better with the nozzle solved the problem? Flying wing implies the concept of "stealth", which is canceled out by the circular engine nozzle.

[Land defence]

Quote: Andre___86

Flying wing implies the concept of "invisibility", which is canceled out by a circular engine nozzle

This copy is for flight tests. There will be a flat nozzle in the series.

[Andre___86]

Have you seen him? The engine of the 2nd stage for the 57 was not finished, the civil pd14 was sawed for a decade, taking into account the backlog of the Soviet.
Oh no Cradle. He was an outstanding designer.

[Reserve buildbat]

Have seen. The S-70 flat nozzle is being successfully tested. It's just that for guidance and communication systems, for example, it doesn't matter which nozzle. At least a six-pointed star. And the issues of visibility, controllability, etc. tested on a prototype with a flat nozzle.

[Andre___86]

There were only layouts. The flight was not. In flight there is no engine. Finish, in 5 years)))

[iouris]

Why does he need the Su-57?

[businessv]

This a priori provides the ability to perform combat missions to "accelerate" or directly destroy the Bayraktar-class attack UAVs in virtually any conditions.

For me personally, a person who does not understand the intricacies of air battles and aviation in general, everything written sounds very attractive, and the name "Hunter" is appropriate! I look forward to comments from the pros!

[Nasrat]

Quote: businessv

.. Waiting for comments from the pros!

You are late, my friend, the pros fled from this site about 7-8 years ago ... that's why such articles began to appear ... in order to spoil the fragile minds and hang noodles for them ... now there are pros from political propagandists ...

[businessv]

Quote: Nasr

now there are pros from political propagandists.

Bad!

[Starover_Z]

And that, quite a normal application. Put 1-2 machine guns on the "Hunter", normal ammunition, and with its help, having the advantage in speed and height, enter the sent UAV flocks and beat them from above from behind! It will be cheaper than knocking down from "Shell" or "Buk", I think so.

[Konnick]

A massive apparatus with a jet engine, leaving a good mark on the air defense systems' radars, will be shot down before it reaches the target. And the point is to direct it if the air defense system could shoot down the UAV themselves. I don't see the point ... maybe, it can't, first you need to learn how to just shoot down the UAV.

[Nasrat]

Quote: Konnick

, first you need to learn how to just shoot down the UAV.

Hrenase, and in Khmeimim they don't even know that first you just need to learn how to shoot down the UAV ...

[lopvlad]

Quote: Konnick

A massive apparatus with a jet engine, leaving a good mark on the air defense systems' radars, will be shot down before it reaches the target.

Why is it so negative about the F-35, the Americans did, tried and you immediately shoot down.

[Bez 310]

Who is the author of this nonsense?
Yes, this is practically the "author of the year"!

[El Chuvachino]

A rare occurrence, but I agree.

[u-345]

If you take a sober look at the situation, then it is extremely ineffective to deal with UAVs using traditional methods - aimed fire.
Of course, you can catch cockroaches one at a time, you just get tortured, or you can dichlorvos.
I imagine that something like a "brain burner" is needed here, a powerful electromagnetic pulse. Something like an EM bomb.

[ximkim]

Like the one and the second UAVs, they are designed to deliver payloads to targets on the ground, rather than targets in the air.

[lopvlad]

then the use of the "Hunter" as a "destroyer" of the Bayraktar attack drones - as one of the manifestations of direct air interception - is not something incredible.

the question is not the likelihood but the stupidity of this decision, because it is tantamount to using the SU-57 to hunt for "corncrackers." in MANPADS "Verba".

[bk316]

For hunting bayraktars, it is advisable to use

Wow sofa generals are replaced by sofa general designers

[lopvlad]

Quote: bk316

Whoa couch generals are replaced

hinting at yourself?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

We need an UAV AWACS like this -

And strike UAVs, including those capable of using air-to-air missiles and made using low-visibility technology, and reactive ones, to quickly intercept targets and turboprop, to stay in the air for a long time, patrolling the desired area and attacking targets if they appear.

[bk316]

Everyone needs one.

[certero]

Quote: bk316

What does the microscope have to do with it?

Given that each tool must be used for its intended purpose. A heavy unmanned vehicle weighing ten tons with supersonic speed can be used to shoot down rattles with the characteristics of school radio-controlled models. It is precisely to misuse the tool

[bk316]

A heavy unmanned vehicle weighing ten tons with supersonic speed to use to shoot down tarahtels with the characteristics of school radio-controlled models

Are you insane? We are talking about a bike with a wingspan of 12 m, takeoff more than half a ton ...
Cost 10 MILLION DOLLARS TEN MILLION CARL !!!
This is where you can see a school model for 10 green lemons?

[Naughty]

Erdogan praised his BYTRACTORS all over the world And in fact it is an elementary simple drone And then we break spears How to shoot him down? With the Armenians, he is undoubtedly good because there is nothing to bring him down. Against the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, I think the thing is completely useless. It's easier to turn it back to where it started from. Let it be unloaded there.

[bk316]

But in fact, this is an elementary simple drone. And then we break spears. How to shoot it down?

Well, not the simplest one - a classmate of our Orion, even the engine is the same.
Only baykatar in series a orion is not clear.
And the simplest is some kind of room 421 ...

[MstislavHrabr]

I'm waiting for information that the Hunter gives target designation for Altair, then it's another matter ...

[rocket757]

Is that in order to check systems, training ... that's just where they can meet, who will tell you?

[Alexey from Perm]

if only ... no specifics.

[Mavrikiy]

Taking this into account, the use of the Hunter as a "destroyer" of Bayraktar attack drones - as one of the manifestations of direct air interception - is not something incredible.

The "hunter" is not a "destroyer" but an "umbrella". But, if the Bayraktars are smeared along the front, then the Hunters must also be smeared along the front. Will their cost and quantity be comparable? Even if for 1 "Hunter" - 3 "Bayraktar".

[bk316]

Will their cost and quantity be comparable?

And you count - a bayraktar is worth 10 Lyams the hunter promised for 20 Lyams.
So it's okay.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bk316

bayraktar costs 10 lyamov the hunter promised for 20 lyamas.

The price of Bayraktar TB2 is $ 2-3 million per plane. The most expensive thing is the wescam optoelectronic system in the region of $ 500, everything else is not expensive, for example, an engine ~ $ 000

[bk316]

The price of Bayraktar TB2 is $ 2-3 million per plane.

Why does everyone buy it for 10?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Nobody buys for this amount. Ukrainians region for 5 bought

[Lex_is]

Nobody buys for this amount. Ukrainians region for 5 bought

Wrong.

the Ukrainian side signed a contract worth 69 million dollars for the purchase of two systems of reconnaissance and attack unmanned aerial vehicles Bayraktar TB2. The delivery will include six Bayraktar TB2 UAVs, two ground control stations and 200 guided missiles. The price also includes a set of spare parts, service support and training of personnel.

The Tunisian government has signed a contract with Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) for the supply of six Anka-S unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and three control stations. The contract also includes technology transfer. The total value of the contract is $ 240 million.

[OgnennyiKotik]

I’m not mistaken.
Ukraine bought 6 planes, 3 ground stations, 200 guided bombs, service maintenance, etc.
The planes themselves are in the 30 million region The rest 39 are for bombs, ground stations, service, etc. Besides, we do not know what exactly is included in the contract.
The Tunisian contract for 240 million did not materialize. They recently signed a new contract. Anka is a class higher than Bayraktar, naturally more expensive, so they will rise to 10k.
Aircraft in any contract account for 40-60% of the total. In the case of UAVs, ground stations are much more expensive than aircraft.

The Tunisian Ministry of Defense has signed a contract with the military technology company TUSAŞ to purchase 3 ANKA-S UAVs from Turkey, for $ 80 million, and 3 ground control stations.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: bk316

Will their cost and quantity be comparable?

And you count - a bayraktar is worth 10 Lyams the hunter promised for 20 Lyams.
So it's okay.

Fine? Hunter - 20 tons, bayraktar - 600 kg. From a gun on sparrows.

[certero]

Quote: bk316

Are you crazy?

I suggest you watch the words.

[bk316]

I suggest you watch the words.

I suggest you admit that they wrote nonsense about school models, then I will consider your proposal.

[certero]

Quote: bk316

The cost is 10 MILLION DOLLARS TEN MILLION CARL !!!
This is where you can see a school model for 10 green lemons?

Most of this is optics and weapons. Moreover, one device costs around 800k bucks and there are no 10m there

[bk316]

Moreover, one device costs around 800k bucks and there are no 10m there

Nude Nude keep writing nonsense ...
Anyone can look at open contracts.
10 UAVs and 3 control stations 70 lamas are at a discount for brothers in faith.

[migsu]

The speed of the "Hunter" is 1400 km / h.

[Alexey G]

Strange assumption in the article! Many have a desire to find some kind of remedy for the UAV and therefore the fantasy plays brightly! Like the fact that like needs to be dealt with like! However, the problem of countering UAVs is not that they are remotely controlled or fully automated, so remotely controlled or automated weapons must be used against them.
The problem of fighting UAVs is that these objects are hardly noticeable and neither on the ground nor in the sky are there sufficient means of detecting them. What are the advantages of "Hunter" in this? Does it have any special airspace tracking sensors? To hunt for UAVs you need to see better than them, but the Hunter has no such advantage!
Hi's fast? So what? It will quickly consume fuel and fly back ...
Perhaps the problem now is that radar is in crisis, as it is no longer able to make the territory safe from air attacks! Ultimately, how do we protect the radar from attack by a swarm of dragonfly-sized UAVs?
It seems to me that we need to create new opportunities for air location! Based on different principles! Air reconnaissance must take a new step forward!
Now, if we had such UAVs as Harpy, to circle for a long time in a given area, but which could determine the position of the Bayrakter by the noise emitted by the Rotax engine and attack him with an air ram, then I would say WOW! And so ... nothing smart ...

[certero]

Quote: bk316

Anyone can look at open contracts.

Well, show me these contracts.

[bk316]

Yes please
https://www.defensenews.com/unmanned/2019/01/14/turkish-firm-to-sell-drones-to-ukraine-in-69-million-deal/

and google yourself in any way?

[certero]

Quote: bk316

Yes please

Have you read what you are referring to? The amount of the contract is indicated there. But point your finger where is the quantity? The only thing that is written there is that the complex includes 6 pieces, two point control stations. But this does not mean that only such a quantity will be supplied under this contract.
And such a device cannot cost 10 million, as you say. There's just nothing worth that much

[bk316]

But this does not mean that only that amount will be supplied under this contract.

What are you stubborn. It means exactly.
Please see the ENDED CONTRACT with Qatar. There is a different number of stations and this allows you to estimate the cost of the UAV.
Of course, to the contract, spare parts and so on, but this is 10-20% of the contract value, so it turns out that the UAV itself costs from 7 to 10 lamas.

There is another proof - please go to the studio.

[Jvm54]

Are you familiar with pricing in the defense industry ???

[ua1osm]

Too expensive to take risks and shoot down plastic geese. This is a reconnaissance vehicle with the ability to deliver accurate strikes, that is, an appointment like a traitor. Another means is needed to fight the Turks.

[Evgeny Seleznev]

A lot of fog and bravura rhetoric. Can be used. A lot of text and no result.

[Maxim Z.]

News from the category "If the grandmother had the primary sexual characteristics of a man, she COULD become a grandfather"

[kgm]

Editor, what went into a binge? Who missed this nonsense ...

[Vanyusha]

Before the launch of the Hunter, special forces and partisans throw more vodka with a snack on the enemy's air defense positions. Those fill their eyes - and the Hunter calmly flies and knocks down Bayraktars. And well, no one sees him.

[Jvm54]

I believe that the performance characteristics of new military equipment are classified information. Therefore, heated debates about the real capabilities of the Hunter and others are an empty idea ...