Military Review

"The development of capitalism in Russia" and above all in the countryside

342

Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "Village". He is rightfully called the painter of the Russian countryside. And everything is drawn from nature. In fact, these are photographs ...


"The great chain broke
Torn - jumped
One end on the master,
Another peasant! ..
(Who lives well in Russia. N. A. Nekrasov)

The beginning and end of the peasant civilization. The topic of peasant civilization on the planet Earth and its particularity - the peasantry in Russia, aroused a clear interest among the VO readership. Now she has the third material on this topic in front of her, and here, finally (I think it's time!), She will also be presented with literature for independent reading, so that those who will be interested can deepen their knowledge of this subject. However, one book, I think, should be read by everyone, any literate citizen of our Fatherland. And I am very surprised that it has not yet been introduced into the school curriculum as an obligatory source. Maybe because there are words like "bitch" and "prolapse of the uterus", but at least in the tenth grade children should not be shocked.

"The development of capitalism in Russia" and above all in the countryside
Book of Semyonova-Tyan-Shanskaya O. P. "Life of" Ivan "

This wonderful book is called “The Life of“ Ivan ”[1], and it was written by Olga Petrovna Semyonova-Tyan-Shanskaya, the daughter of a famous traveler, Russian geographer and academician. The book is valuable as a source because it describes everything that was before her eyes. You can learn a lot from it: for example, that an average-income peasant had a very decent farm, he had three horses, fifteen sheep and other cattle; there are prices for goods and products and the family budget, and about how they got married and ... cohabited before marriage; when they got married and got married, and also ... how often did the husband beat his wife, and what happened to him if she died from the beatings; how women "in the peasantry" carried and gave birth to children, and what kind of upbringing they had; what did they eat and what they drank, what clothes they wore; about their diseases and methods of treatment; about work and fun ... And about many, many other things, it is not for nothing that the book is called "The Life of Ivan". True, there are no generalizations in it. Everything described was related to the village of Gremyachka, Ryazan province, but it's like a drop of water in which the entire ocean is reflected!


Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "Rural landscape"

There is also a very interesting dissertation on the peasantry of my beloved Penza province "Peasant economy of the Penza province in the second half of the 07.00.02th century" (topic of the dissertation and abstract on the HAC RF XNUMX, candidate historical sciences Ulyanov, Anton Evgenievich, 2004, Penza) [2]. True, there are a lot of such dissertations in all regions of Russia, and if desired, anyone who wants to can easily find a job in their region. But ... I just read this work "from and to" and I can say that "the product is good." Moreover, the abstract is read for free, but for the text of the dissertation downloaded from the Internet, alas, you have to pay. And who only came up with this ...


Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "Village Church" 1888

Well, now let us pass on to the actual position of the post-reform peasantry. And ... there is no point in describing the hardships of his position. But it makes sense to refer to the very interesting work of V. I. Lenin "The Development of Capitalism in Russia", written by him in 1896-1899, published in Tsarist Russia quite legally at the end of March 1899 by the publishing house of M. I. Vodovozova in St. Petersburg in the number of 2,4 thousand copies. In 2012, R.G. Pikhoi (Soviet and Russian historian, Doctor of Historical Sciences (1987), Professor (1989)) gave her the following assessment:

It is an almost exemplary work in the field of economic history, testifying to the author's extraordinary intelligence. Once in prison, and then in exile, he reworked a huge layer of statistics - the work contains links to more than 500 sources. The most interesting passage in Razvitiya ... is what Lenin wrote about the Russian countryside, about the inevitability of the destruction of the peasant community ... Even today, a doctoral degree would be immediately awarded for work of this level.

So the work is worthwhile, isn't it? And what did Lenin write about the peasantry there?

And he wrote something that our Slavophils and Socialist-Revolutionaries did not like very much, who dreamed of joining socialism through the peasant community. He wrote that it exists ... de jure, because with its help it is convenient for the government to collect taxes, but de facto, economically, it has long been stratified. That in the Russian post-reform village three social strata have already formed: the poor, the middle peasants and the kulaks. The first were poor not because of the lack of land, they had no "tax", the second had both land and tax, but ... they could not get out of poverty, because they lived "like everyone else", the communal psychology pressed on them, but the kulaks ... these just, disdaining this very communal psychology, lived by usury, robbing their fellow villagers and holding them in their fists on time with unpaid debts.

All this is confirmed by modern research. So, in the Middle Volga region and land shortage (and it was, of course), and an excess of free time in winter, as well as the availability of various sources of natural raw materials helped such peasant trades as weaving, down-spinning, leather and pottery, woodworking. A popular occupation was also otkhodniki - going to work in cities and temporary employment in factories and plants.


Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "Village"

And although each of this stratum lived with the psychology of "Ivan", being gradually changed the consciousness of the peasants. The goals of all these groups gradually diverged more and more, albeit very slowly. And from these same peasants, yesterday's serfs, raised by yesterday's slaves and "metressa" from the landowners' harems, our Russian proletariat was also formed. Hereditary workers were few. There were “winter roads” - those who worked at the plant in winter and peasants in the summer, there were those who “came yesterday” and hoped to return to the peasantry, there were those who broke up with them forever, but wiped the snot with their sleeve, as before, and someone has already learned how to use a handkerchief ...

And now let's turn to the modern "theory of generations" by Strauss and Howe, according to which a generation is a collection of people born in an interval of time equal to 20 years, or as one phase of human life, consisting of childhood, youth, middle age and old age. Representatives of the same generation usually belong to the same historical era: they are faced with the same historical events, they are worried about the same social phenomena. Therefore, they have one culture, common beliefs and behavioral patterns. Finally, members of the same generation share a sense of belonging to that generation with others.


Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "Moonlight night". Actually, it would be more interesting to call this picture "The Fence Fell"

And now let's count a little: between 1917 and 1861, it turns out to be 56 years old, which at that time was already old age. This means that the revolution was made by the children and grandchildren of yesterday's serfs, raised by yesterday's slaves, people with a petty-bourgeois psychology, adhering to patriarchal views on life, with a morality permeated with a communal worldview. Undoubtedly, the city changed their outlook on life, the same, say, the newspaper Iskra, but no newspaper is able to shake the deep foundations of self-consciousness. Everything comes from childhood, and nobody described the childhood of these people better than Nekrasov. Personally, I would not wish an evil enemy to find myself in that childhood - see, again, “The Life of“ Ivan ”.

But it is obvious that the peasantry from the countryside in post-reform Russia simply ... poured into the cities! In his work, Lenin emphasizes that in 1890 71,1% of the total number of factory workers in the country worked in large enterprises (where there were 100 or more workers). In 1894-1895. they accounted for 10,1% of all plants and factories, and 74% of all factory workers worked there. In 1903, large factories, where there were more than 100 workers, in European Russia accounted for 17% of the total number of industries, and they employed 76,6% of the total number of factory workers in the empire. And Lenin especially noted that our large factories were larger than those in Germany.


Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "The road to the village"

It is interesting that the arrival of a new way of life was accompanied by such a phenomenon as an increase in the number of the mentally ill. The Russian historian Y. Mironov in his article "Lessons from the 1917 revolution or who lives in Russia is bad" (magazine "Rodina" 2011-2012, №№ 12,1,2) provides data that from 1886 to 1913 the number such patients increased 5,2 times (this despite the fact that in Russia, according to tradition, such clinics were used only in the most extreme cases!), and from 1896 to 1914 the number of patients per 100 thousand inhabitants increased from 39 to 72 people. That is, the "new life" had a very hard effect on many! But this does not include those who were treated in private clinics, and who needed to be treated, but were afraid that he would be nicknamed "psycho". That is, the demolition of the old society was painful in all respects. However, for the most part, among the peasants, and among the workers from the peasants, and even among the most hereditary workers, the consciousness remained largely peasant, patriarchal, and ... petty-bourgeois, with a tremendous mass of vestiges of the past worldview. After all, there was such a world around them, and they did not know anything else. But the peasants ... of course, one cannot say that they were complete "savages" then. But how else can one characterize this case ... And it so happened that in 1888 the artist Levitan went for impressions, and this is what came of it:

We tried to stay in the village of Chulkovo, but didn't get along there for a long time. The population, who had never seen their "masters", reacted very wildly to us. They followed us in a crowd and looked at us like some kind of Aztecs, felt our clothes and things ... When we started to sketch, the village was seriously alarmed. - Why do gentlemen write off our houses, ravines and fields? Wouldn't that be a bad thing?
They gathered a gathering, for some reason they even began to call us: dashing gentlemen. All this got on our nerves, and we hastened to leave. [4]


Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "Plyos" - this is where the "dashing gentlemen" moved to paint their pictures ... An illustrative case, isn't it? But, unfortunately, it is far from the only one that demonstrates an extremely low level of culture in the "lower classes"


1. O. P. Semyonova-Tyan-Shanskaya. “The Life of“ Ivan ”. Essays from the life of peasants in one of the black earth provinces
2. "Peasant economy of the Penza province in the second half of the XIX century." The topic of the dissertation and abstract of the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Candidate of Historical Sciences Ulyanov, Anton Evgenievich, 2004, Penza
3. E. Permyak "The Humpbacked Bear" (the life and customs of the patriarchal Russian peasantry and peasant workers of the Perm Territory are very well shown)
4. E. V. Pervushina. “The estates and dachas of the Russian intelligentsia. Owners, guests, country life ”. SPb., "Parity", 217, p. 320


To be continued ...
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342 comments
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  1. apro
    apro 26 December 2020 04: 43
    +2
    A weak beginning ... but we'll see ... and the book Ivan's life is certainly worth your attention ... in some places it feels like a description of the Neolithic ...
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 06: 18
      +10
      You should, Oleg, also compare with this: "The peasant economy of the Penza province in the second half of the XIX century" and then the picture will be complete. That is to say, scientific fiction + pure science.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 26 December 2020 14: 22
        -1
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are a brilliant author: who knows how to "hook", but yours: "Penza province" is already boring.
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 14: 49
          +6
          Quote: Astra wild2
          but yours: "Penza province" is already boring.

          Look for your province ... Who's in the way? There are a lot of dissertations on the Web. I just read this one and know its content. But ... once again I am convinced of the fairness of the saying: "In caring for your neighbor, the main thing is not to overdo it!"
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 06
            +6
            Quote: kalibr
            In caring for your neighbor, the main thing is not to overdo it! "

            +++++++! And most importantly, observe revolutionary restraint! laughing wink laughing
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 04
          +8
          Quote: Astra wild2
          Yours: "Penza province" is already boring

          Who? You? Well, how would you define it? In addition, the author's right to decide what and how to write to him. As well as your inalienable right to criticize. But ... in the case and according to the rules of the Russian language. wink
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 26 December 2020 19: 55
            +3
            Quote: Phil77
            Russian language.
            It is important!!!
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 26 December 2020 19: 58
            +6
            Quote: Phil77
            Russian language.

            Teach Vera! Teach! I am drunk, it happens, but you !!!! ¡It is necessary! ¡¡
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 December 2020 01: 10
              +6
              "And then, in a drunken state, he obscenely molested women ..." (c) laughing
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 27 December 2020 07: 53
                +4
                Quote: Sea Cat

                +2
                "And then, in a drunken state, he obscenely molested women ..." (c)

                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 27 December 2020 08: 30
                  +5
                  laughing And this is you ask the district police officer today, "our eagle, Don Raba." drinks
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 27 December 2020 09: 08
                    +2
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    And this is you ask the district police officer today, "our eagle, Don Raba."

                    Yes, I have it for years, many !!!! ¡How have not seen it !!!!
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 27 December 2020 09: 21
                      +3
                      Died out?

                      Yeah, how ... dozhessi ... Yscho and gendarmes were invented on our heads. And you - "extinct", rather we ourselves will die out. drinks
          3. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 26 December 2020 20: 24
            0
            Sergey, have I ever criticized for: "sports interest"? Some colleagues rush to criticize the place and out of place, but I did that.?
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 26 December 2020 20: 30
              +4
              Quote: Astra wild2

              Astra wild2
              Today, 20: 24

              0
              Sergey, have I ever criticized for: "sports interest"? Some colleagues rush to

              Again! Let's think and ... think.
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 26 December 2020 20: 51
              +4
              Faith! Think! Always think! This is very important! ¡¡¡!
            3. Phil77
              Phil77 27 December 2020 08: 00
              +3
              Quote: Astra wild2
              , and I at least once criticized for: "sports interest"?

              Re-read your own comments. Sorry ... for the harshness.
              Happy New Year!
        3. Proxima
          Proxima 26 December 2020 17: 37
          +9
          Quote: Astra wild2
          Vyacheslav Vasha: "Penza province" is already boring.

          And what was the Penza province "guilty" of before you? It is quite typical for the then Russia. Take literacy rates, for example. It is quite comparable with other provinces and, moreover, there were a number of provinces and worse. So, the level of illiteracy of the population in the above province in 1890 was 88% !!! fellow It should be noted that these statistics did not include children under 9 years old. As a result, we have a general gamotlessness of the peasant population! We all know perfectly well that the state is doomed if social elevators do not work normally. And what kind of elevators can you talk about with such illiteracy ?! So we got what we should get - 1917!
          1. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 27 December 2020 10: 18
            +1
            And according to the 1897 census, the literacy rate in the Voronezh and Orel provinces in the villages is 16,3 and 14,6%.
            In cities, literacy is higher than 44,4% and 45,2%, respectively.
        4. Catfish
          Catfish 27 December 2020 01: 06
          +2
          Vera, write about yours, you can't, so don't "roll the barrel at the author." Sorry, but you deserve a minus. hi
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 06: 31
      +9
      Dear Apro, why such torment? Write your article "strong"!
      1. apro
        apro 26 December 2020 06: 32
        +6
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Dear Apro, why such torment? Write your article "strong"!

        My writing does not fit into the policy of the site ...
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 08: 00
          +17
          I have a desire to draw the attention of members of the forum to another aspect.
          Holiday work was also a popular occupation - going to work in cities and temporary employment in factories and factories.

          In the Urals, everything was exactly the opposite. To feed themselves and their families, the workers had a strong peasant farm. And so strong that it made it possible to live without a salary at the factory.
          For example, in the 40s of the last century Serginskiye factories stood up for a decade. The working people have gone through a dashing decade with their vegetable gardens. This situation was repeated at the beginning of the last century at the Atigsky plant, subsistence farming again helped out the working people.
          By the way, during the harvest all the Ural factories got up with a stake. Working people, from the last zhigar to the first manager, went to harvest hay for the domestic cows.

          In fact, there was only one social lift in this situation of Russia's development - literacy.
          My distant great-grandfather in the middle of the century before last rose from factory peasants to the manager of Serginskiz and Verkhny-Ufaleisk factories due to his ability to read and write (he graduated from the Gornozavodsk Yekaterinburg School). However, this was not enough for his children and grandchildren, although they did not go down below the craftsmen and dams. But at the beginning of the last century, education should have been higher.
          My maternal grandfather was born in 1920. He told me that he started working with his father in felling and charcoal wood from the age of 10. At school, he was resting, as there were no chainsaws. Sawed by hand. The contracts were carried out in artels. Coal supply - money in the house. In his words, the school was a rest.
          At the age of 14, when the open-hearth furnace switched to coal, he was sent to his uncle. There he was given to a hairdresser as an apprentice. Profession - money. As he said it was brought to the people - the army!
          So there is nothing surprising that grandparents gave their daughter the opportunity to get an education.
          Well, somewhere like that!
          Good day to all.
          1. kalibr
            26 December 2020 08: 20
            +8
            It is precisely about the specifics of the Urals that is very well written in "The Humpbacked Bear"!
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 08: 31
              +8
              I read it when I was sick, and on your advice. I did not regret it, definitely.
            2. Undecim
              Undecim 26 December 2020 11: 13
              +9
              The specificity of the Urals is very well given by V. I. Lenin in your work "Development of Capitalism in Russia" cited above: "the most direct remnants of the pre-reform order, the strong development of labor services, the attachment of workers, low labor productivity, backwardness of technology, low wages, primitive and predatory-primitive exploitation of the natural resources of the region, monopoly, restriction of competition, isolation and isolation from the general commercial and industrial movement of time , - this is the general picture of the Urals ".
              1. kalibr
                26 December 2020 11: 29
                +5
                Quote: Undecim
                this is the general picture of the Urals ".

                It is more interesting to read "Humpbacked" ... And in general a wonderful book!
          2. kalibr
            26 December 2020 08: 27
            +7
            My great-grandfather from the artisans rose to the level of the master of locomotive workshops of the Penza railway. node. 5 children survived, but I knew 3, including my grandfather. The last ... all before him graduated from high schools and universities !!! His brother Peter taught mathematics at the gymnasium, his sister Olga taught French. Grandfather is a black sheep, but strong beyond his years, he worked in workshops as a hammer for three years, but earned a hernia, so he did not get to the First World War. He graduated from high school as an external student, then a teacher's college, and became an inspector of public schools. But he received a Soviet higher education only in 1940.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 08: 34
              +9
              Conclusion?
              Education is the key to development.
              Continuing for you. Your grandfather's daughter, a university teacher, defended her dissertation, your grandson (you) is a professor, etc.
              But with each generation, the requirements for education, or rather for competence, are becoming more stringent.
              1. kalibr
                26 December 2020 08: 39
                +8
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                But with each generation, the requirements for education, or rather for competence, are becoming more stringent.

                Yes, and the conditions of "well-being" are changing. The granddaughter is not studying to be a historian, but to be an accountant and is already considering how many companies and individual entrepreneurs she can work at the same time (!)! And the funniest thing is that I was taught to hold a knife in my right hand and a fork in my left. I didn't have to teach my daughter, I almost collapsed when in a restaurant in the Swallow's Nest, she probably began to eat like this at the age of 7 without my reminders. Granddaughter ... makes it like she was born with these skills! Although the textbook on cultural studies says: culture is not transmitted. Aha!
                1. sergo1914
                  sergo1914 26 December 2020 10: 06
                  +3
                  Quote: kalibr
                  The granddaughter is not studying to be a historian, but to be an accountant and is already considering how many firms and individual entrepreneurs she can work at the same time (!)!


                  Normal situation. Now the labor costs have been reduced. Less good software and less reporting. Young girls take 5-7 firms for themselves. With each 30-ke. Fine. You can live. And they are not particularly exhausting. If a date - spat, took another firm. The beauty.
                  1. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 26 December 2020 15: 30
                    +4
                    "You can live. And not really written out" I understand with my mind that this should be so, but with my heart I am for one job: like my parents and most people of that period. It was honorable when in the labor record 2: "hired" "dismissed due to retirement."
                    Now there is no "labor" as such. Actually, it is, but many already have it "electronic". Probably 70% of the girls I work with no longer have paper
                  2. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 27 December 2020 00: 23
                    +2
                    Quote: sergo1914


                    Normal situation. Now the labor costs have been reduced. Less good software and less reporting. Young girls take 5-7 firms for themselves. With each 30-ke. Fine. You can live. And they are not particularly exhausting. If a date - spat, took another firm. The beauty.

                    Young girls in Moscow take 7 firms at a maximum of 10, 30K pay experienced women. For the liquidation of a company, the average price for MSK is 20-25K hi
                    1. Svarog
                      Svarog 27 December 2020 22: 23
                      +2
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Quote: sergo1914


                      Normal situation. Now the labor costs have been reduced. Less good software and less reporting. Young girls take 5-7 firms for themselves. With each 30-ke. Fine. You can live. And they are not particularly exhausting. If a date - spat, took another firm. The beauty.

                      Young girls in Moscow take 7 firms at a maximum of 10, 30K pay experienced women. For the liquidation of a company, the average price for MSK is 20-25K hi

                      Everything seems to be fine .. only accountants now have a different responsibility and 10 firms, especially considering the specifics of domestic business .. it is not easy, and sometimes dangerous .. a criminal article looms and there is a risk of losing everything that you have earned ..
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 28 December 2020 08: 39
                        +2
                        Everything is done as follows:
                        LE is taken with a small turnover;
                        The chief accountant writes the founder;
                        With the growth of turnover, the pay of the accountant increases.
                2. ee2100
                  ee2100 26 December 2020 11: 44
                  +6
                  Knowing how to use cutlery is not a sign of culture.
                  1. kalibr
                    26 December 2020 14: 53
                    +1
                    Quote: ee2100
                    Knowing how to use cutlery is not a sign of culture.

                    Sign, and what a sign! In V.P. Belyaev's novel "The Old Fortress" one hero says very well about this: They try to turn the world over, but they don't know how to hold the fork in their hands! "This is an indicator of good manners, environment, intelligence. And Peter the First wrote about this: Don't chomp over food and don't scratch your head, for the peasants do this. " So it's also an indicator of class ...
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 26 December 2020 15: 05
                      +6
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And Peter the Great wrote about this: Don't slurp over food and don't scratch your heads, because the peasants do this. "So this is also an indicator of class affiliation ...

                      And a hundred grams with pickled cucumber - a sign of aristocracy?
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 26 December 2020 15: 23
                        +5
                        Probably yes! But this is not very intelligent laughing
                      2. Fat
                        Fat 26 December 2020 20: 51
                        +5
                        Quite intelligently laughing
                        "Man is an intermediate link in evolution, necessary to create the crown of the creation of nature - a glass of cognac and a lemon wedge ..."(c) Strugatsky" Monday starts on Saturday "
                      3. ee2100
                        ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 06
                        +3
                        Cognac with lemon is intelligent, but vodka with pickles is not comme il faut
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 13: 30
                        +2
                        Cognac with lemon - intelligently

                        and if you sprinkle a slice of lemon with coffee and sugar, it will turn out super-aristocratic, because this snack was called "nikolashka" - like, the last bearded family man-ampirer loved to eat cognac like that. wink drinks
                        but vodka with pickles is not comme il faut

                        Very comme il faut! yes but, by the way, with tomato juice it never "comes in" with me! request
                      5. ee2100
                        ee2100 28 December 2020 14: 00
                        +1
                        You "dropped out" a little from the context of the discussion, and he is the culture of the intelligentsia. And what I wrote about cognac and vodka is, in a sense, mocking.
                        I read somewhere that the last Russian tsar was taught this fun, to eat cognac with lemon, by officers, and officers can teach even not that.
                        I used to enjoy eating lemon vodka. Recommend.
                      6. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 14: 06
                        +1
                        and the officers can teach even not that.

                        This is for sure, especially if one of them resembles Lieutenant Rzhevsky ... laughing
                        I used to enjoy eating lemon vodka. Recommend.

                        We will try! yes Thank you sincerely, Alexander! drinks
                      7. ee2100
                        ee2100 28 December 2020 14: 09
                        +2
                        And all the best to you! This orgy with the covid would have ended as soon as possible, otherwise the 20th year is down the drain!
                        The main thing is health, and then we will break through!
                      8. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 14: 11
                        +2
                        This orgy with the covid would have ended as soon as possible, otherwise the 20th year is down the drain!

                        I completely agree with you - the year was the most dumb in all directions. No.
                        The main thing is health, and then we will break through!

                        Will live! drinks
                      9. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 December 2020 19: 05
                        0
                        Quote: ee2100
                        And all the best to you! This orgy with the covid would have ended as soon as possible, otherwise the 20th year is down the drain!
                        The main thing is health, and then we will break through!

                        Why touch the cat! Down the drain !!! wink
                      10. ee2100
                        ee2100 28 December 2020 20: 32
                        0
                        Yes, you are an expert! Wherever you want to go and send this disastrous year!
      2. Hantengri
        Hantengri 26 December 2020 21: 18
        +5
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        And a hundred grams with pickled cucumber - a sign of aristocracy?

        "Only landowners who have not been cut by the Bolsheviks eat cold snacks and soup. A person who respects himself in the slightest degree operates with hot snacks." (from)
      3. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 13: 32
        +2
        A person who respects himself in the slightest degree operates with hot snacks.

        "And the vodka should be forty degrees!" wink it's a pity that Boris Plotnikov (Dr. Bormental) recently died ...
  2. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 15: 22
    +8
    The opinion of a typical intiligent, but you have written correctly, the ability to use cutlery is an indicator of the cash register and intiligent as well. Those. God forbid others will think that we are from the plebeians!
    Plov is a cultural heritage among Asian countries. Do you think culturally it is eaten with a knife and a fork.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 26 December 2020 15: 28
      +4
      Quote: ee2100
      Do you think culturally it is eaten with a knife and a fork.

      No, to roll lumps of pilaf with your hands from a common vessel - only wild people are capable of this. crying
    2. kalibr
      26 December 2020 15: 38
      +2
      In Italy, risotto is essentially the same pilaf, and not only in Italy, they eat with a fork and no one died from it!
    3. ee2100
      ee2100 26 December 2020 15: 58
      +7
      How to eat pizza properly?
      Uzbekistan belongs to one cultural environment, Italy to another. And what is decent in one cultural environment is considered unacceptable in another.
    4. Korsar4
      Korsar4 26 December 2020 21: 35
      +2
      “What they dream of in York,
      Prose of everyday life in Mallorca ”(c).
  3. Undecim
    Undecim 26 December 2020 20: 38
    +7
    And cultured people eat risotto with a spoon.
  4. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 15: 58
    +12
    Plov is a cultural heritage among Asian countries. Do you think culturally it is eaten with a knife and a fork.
    Heinlein has a good phrase on this topic: "The pie should be eaten the way the lady of the house eats it."
  5. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 16: 03
    +4
    Gold words! But the question that has been discussed not for the first time is: is the ability to use a knife and fork a sign of culture? According to the author, the ability to use cutlery is a sign of culture, which differs an intiligrant and an aristocrat from the plebs!
  6. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 16: 18
    +5
    But a question that has not been discussed for the first time
    Exactly! And in my opinion, you shouldn't exaggerate it. You, on the other hand, are fooled every time.
  7. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 16: 32
    +4
    It seems to me that everything is exactly the opposite. Shpakovsky promotes the liberal idea that all educated people are intelligentsia.
  8. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 16: 51
    +4
    Oh, I still beg you! In my opinion, Shpakovsky promotes the idea that education provides an opportunity to raise the level of culture. How each individual individual uses this opportunity is another question.
  9. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 16: 56
    +2
    So be it. I have nothing to argue with you. Good evening!
  10. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 17: 23
    +6
    Bravo! You know how to send gracefully! good laughing
    And all the best to you! drinks
  11. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 32
    +6
    * Swords in the scabbard, gentlemen! Swords in the scabbard! *
    Hi Anton, but I still agree with Alexander. In this matter, dear V.O., slightly / yes probably not slightly laughing / - overdoes. Culture, it still depends more on a particular person. It's me about whether a particular person has a desire to be considered a * cultured and educated person *.
    * Of course we did not graduate from high schools, but we have our own opinion. * hi wink
  12. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 49
    +6
    Quote: Phil77
    gymnasiums

    Yes, I will add. Self-education has not been canceled. Of course, it will not give a diploma, but .... This is more for myself, my dear. No? hi
  13. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 18: 00
    +3
    Good evening Sergey!
    Thanks for your support! Shpakovsky's article is so-so. About 10 years ago, there was a series of articles on the topic of the XNUMXth century. Naturally I don’t remember the author, but he positioned himself as a specialist in the XNUMXth century of Russia.
    It was very interesting to read when he argued with figures why the commoners, read the liberals, were for the revolution and it was they who introduced the word "intiligent" into circulation.
  14. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 18: 12
    +5
    Quote: ee2100
    Good evening Sergey!

    Good evening, Alexander!
    You see, both your opinion and the opinion of the esteemed Anton are interesting to me. Interesting because I, apart from the usual Soviet * ten years *, and half a course TVVPSU / thank God I realized that such an * anarchist * as I am * indestructible and legendary has nothing to do !! !!!! / I never completed anything! All my knowledge, the result of reading, and .... education! Parents. Not nobles and intellectuals. That is, that is. hi
  15. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 18: 22
    +4
    I know quite a few people with higher education, but poor knowledge and little interest in life. Family, life and, at best, a summer residence.
    It is not education that determines intelligence, but the desire for knowledge.
  16. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 18: 25
    +3
    Today is another anniversary of the Decembrist uprising, but somehow the site is quiet about this.
    And the topic is very interesting.
  17. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 18: 37
    +4
    Quote: ee2100
    another anniversary of the uprising

    Oh !!!! And they gave us an advance! And you about the Decembrists. Apart from the banal that they were terribly far from the people, I will not give anything away. No, seriously, where is Prince Trubetskoy and his conditional serf-Sokolov ?????? ? Different galaxies.
  18. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 18: 45
    +2
    I'm also more of a reader. I could have burst into an article from local gurus am
  19. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 18: 49
    +4
    Quote: ee2100
    get excited

    Come on! And Alexander? Waiting! Pen and Internet in good luck! I have already seen in the uniform of the national team! hi
  20. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 18: 55
    +2
    Not my topic. I tried writing, but unpublished. Spelling is rather weak!
  21. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 18: 59
    +5
    Why is there interesting? The last surge of feudalism. The barons resented the centralization of power for the last time.
  22. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 19: 02
    +2
    There are many interpretations of these events, so it would be interesting to read everything in one place.
    That's why I'm hanging out here!
  23. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 19: 27
    +4
    read everything in one place.
    I think not during our lifetime, Alexander. Historians argue about the reasons for the uprising of Spartacus, and you want an adequate analysis of yesterday's events.
  24. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 26 December 2020 19: 42
    +4
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Historians argue about the reasons for the uprising of Spartacus,

    People say that Zenith is a champion. belay
  25. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 19: 50
    +3
    Quote: Stroporez
    The people say that like Zenith is a champion

    Fucked up ??? ¡Man.
  26. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 26 December 2020 20: 03
    +7
    Quote: Phil77
    Fucked up ??? ¡Man.

    What is there to do? Think "meat"? laughing
  27. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 19: 56
    +4
    My respect, comrade!
    When Zenith beats some Anchorage Penguins, I'll be glad. In this case, the Neva seals defeated the Moscow seals.
  28. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 26 December 2020 20: 00
    +4
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    defeated the Moscow seals.

    They defeated the piglets.
  29. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 20: 15
    +4
    Volodya, I don't care who beat whom in this game of "mothers and daughters for money"! For all these "balletuns" the command "everything is possible" was the departure of Arshavin.
  30. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 20: 02
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Anchorage penguins

    Who is this? Shutka, huh ?? ¿
  31. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 20: 23
    +1
    No! The Icelanders have proven it in practice!
  32. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 20: 55
    0
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Icelanders have proven it

    Russian is not an authority! Why did I get drunk?
  33. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 20: 59
    0
    Because you support the wrong sports
  34. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 26 December 2020 20: 07
    +8
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    My respect, comrade!

    And I bow to you hi The other day it was no fucking thing to do, the younger had chickenpox, I had to become a householder, watched all the USSR-Canada series and realized that the current, like, sport is simply not interesting.
  35. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 20: 30
    +3
    I here unexpectedly looked at the record of the '87 youth team. These passions were raging!
  36. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 26 December 2020 20: 55
    +6
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    I here unexpectedly looked at the record of the '87 youth team. These passions were raging!

    Are you talking about this, Kamrad?
    Then all the future NHL stars played for our youth team ...
  37. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 21: 03
    +1
    Aha, such a normal buhurt!
  38. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 26 December 2020 22: 25
    +6
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Aha, such a normal buhurt!

    Solid adrenaline!)) good
  39. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 21: 04
    +1
    Well, you gouge! 72 years old do you remember ?????
  40. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 20: 03
    +3
    Quote: Stroporez
    Zenith

    Yes, not in life, huh?!? !!
  41. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 20: 56
    +2
    Don't worry like that! Well, “Ligovka” won against “Samoteka” ... But not against “Manchester United”?
  42. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 26 December 2020 20: 58
    +3
    Quote: Phil77
    Yes, not in life, huh?!? !!

    Estimate, in my youth I was rooting for Torpedo, and in hockey for Wings of the Soviets. And now there are no traditions.
  43. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 21: 09
    +2
    Quote: Stroporez
    of youth for Torpedo was sick, and in hockey for "Wings of the Soviets

    What are you with Setuni? ¿
  44. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 26 December 2020 22: 28
    +6
    Quote: Phil77
    What are you with Setuni? ¿

    just in that life, they wooed me in "Wings", and Dad was rooting for them, but something went wrong ((
  45. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 21: 14
    +1
    Quote: Stroporez
    Wings of Soviets

    Not !!!!!
  46. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 12
    +1
    Not Spartacus, but Lazio from Rome. Still for the champion 1: 1
  47. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 00
    +1
    Even if not with ours, but it's so exciting. I prefer the debt relief version. Look for money as they say.
  48. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 21: 13
    +1
    Sasha, Sasha, Sasha; Your participation in the Estonian national team is forever!
  49. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 16
    +1
    The joke has gone !!!!!!!
  50. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 20
    +1
    Watching the match! Country RF - USA (U29) 4: 1
  51. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 21
    +1
    U20 litter, put my finger in the wrong place
  52. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 13: 53
    +1
    Why is there interesting? The last surge of feudalism. The barons resented the centralization of power for the last time.

    The most interesting and undisclosed is just how human, romantic ideas about freedom and other goodies found their development in a bloodthirsty desire to raise a riot and kill the emperor (after all, I think, the future Alexander II would also have his neck twisted like a chicken). what And the events on Senatskaya Street are chaos on both sides, hellish chaos, when no one knew what to do. Let's start with the collection. Everyone gathered in who had time to wear what. Someone in greatcoats. others in uniforms. Horse Guards, EMNIP, appeared in tunics, without greatcoats, cuirasses and pistols! The sea crew (a part of it raised by the conspirators) came ... without flints in their guns! These are particular examples to emphasize general nervousness.
    Again, we are missing why, nevertheless, grapeshot fire was opened. There was a fear that with the onset of darkness, the excitement would be transmitted to the commoners, who had gathered around a great crowd. At least from the side of the construction site of St. Isaac's Cathedral, people have already started throwing logs from behind the fence. Then everything would have been different!
    By the way, Nikolay gave the order to use buckshot either from the third or fourth time ...
  53. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 18: 26
    +6
    Quote: ee2100
    It is not education that determines intelligence, but the desire for knowledge.

    Yes! Thirst for knowledge! No, too loud! Desire.
  54. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 18: 30
    +5
    Okay, need to learn something new!
    On many things, I, as I hope many of those present here, have developed my own opinion. And I often defend it.
    And so I try to live together
  55. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 19: 39
    +5
    Sergei, and no one quarreled!
  56. Phil77
    Phil77 27 December 2020 07: 44
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    quarreled

    It seemed. belay
  57. Phil77
    Phil77 27 December 2020 07: 47
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    It seemed

  58. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 18: 51
    +5
    I know quite a few people with higher education, but poor knowledge and little interest in life. Family, life and, at best, a summer residence.
    It is not education that determines intelligence, but the desire for knowledge.

    This is what I meant, and you culturally "sent me".
  59. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 18: 58
    +4
    Now you are wishful thinking! And in my thoughts there was no one, let alone send you somewhere.
  60. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 19: 04
    +4
    Sorry, Alexander!
    I'm a jester, and I'm used to dividing each interjection "by two"
    You are a worthy conversationalist! My regards! hi
  61. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 19: 12
    +3
    Yes, everything is fine, I agree with many of your comments.
    There are a lot of decent people here. All the best.
    The wife is almost ready, let's go for a walk.
  62. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 19: 30
    +3
    Have a nice evening walk! hi
  63. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 03
    +2
    Have returned. Everything is in place. laughing
  64. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 21: 07
    +3
    Seems to me you have a dog?
  65. ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 15
    +3
    Not anymore. We just try to walk for an hour or more in the evening. Fortunately, the center is nearby.
  66. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 21: 23
    +6
    1. Words are not needed here
    2. I try not to envy
  67. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 26 December 2020 18: 17
    +6
    What's the matter, Sergei? I have more than once advertised my rejection of some of Shpakovsky's moral and ethical imperatives, including, and above all, to him personally. Perhaps Alexander did not see them, but this is not my headache.
  68. Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 18: 30
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    What's the matter, Sergei?

    Anton! Yes, the norm, that's it.
  69. hohol95
    hohol95 26 December 2020 22: 55
    +4
    "
    The pie should be eaten as the lady of the house eats it. "

    Especially if this is a feast on the occasion of moving to a new home and it is not clear where the cutlery is packed.
  • FahrerLKW
    FahrerLKW 26 December 2020 15: 35
    0
    And the Germans can still play so well at the table, especially those aged and nothing, you can't say that the Germans are an uncultured nation ...
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 15: 56
      +5
      Quote: FahrerLKW
      And the Germans can still play so well at the table, especially those aged and nothing, you can't say that the Germans are an uncultured nation ...

      I didn't eat with the Germans, unlike you, I can't say. I ate with the Poles, Spaniards, French. I was surprised how German and Polish youth ate in Spain. Buffet. The food is plentiful and delicious. And so instead of choosing a different yummy, little by little ... They stupidly piled a plate of fried potatoes, poured ketchup and ate with their hands, dipping potatoes in the sauce. And we sat side by side and you had to see with what eyes they looked at us and my granddaughter. We already had a real still life on our plates and we drank red wine to the red meat ...
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 26 December 2020 16: 00
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      we had a real still life on our plates

      Lunches?
      Quote: kalibr
      drinking red wine ...

      Opivki?
    3. Undecim
      Undecim 26 December 2020 20: 47
      +7
      and we drank red wine to the red meat ...
      Cultured people choose wine not for the color of the meat, but for the method of its preparation.
    4. kalibr
      26 December 2020 20: 58
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      Cultured people choose wine not for the color of meat, but for the method of its preparation

      And the color just depends on the cooking method!
    5. Liam
      Liam 26 December 2020 21: 08
      +3
      Come on. Chicken meat will not turn red no matter how you cook it. Just like beef will not turn white.
    6. Undecim
      Undecim 26 December 2020 21: 28
      +6
      Here you are completely mistaken. In this case, everything is decided by the content of myoglobin. Therefore, pork in the form of a barbecue and steamed is red meat. And turkey, no matter how you cook it, is white meat.
    7. Liam
      Liam 26 December 2020 22: 08
      +2
      In addition to the cooking method, the age of the animal (especially for beef), the season also play a role (in summer, white wines are preferable than in winter)
  • ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 21: 36
    +2
    Not in terms of arguing, but in terms of "cultured people". If I like to re-fry whiskey, do cultured people allow it?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 26 December 2020 22: 30
    +3
    And who is "reproasted"? My associations are not with food.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 27 December 2020 07: 19
    +2
    The taste and color .....
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 26 December 2020 15: 56
    +3
    Quote: FahrerLKW
    And the Germans can still play so good at the table,

    Some other Roman emperor allowed to grunt at the table with rolls.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 19: 01
    +3
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    grunt with buns

    Yes, yes! There were women there ... their ... German. What about ... exhaust ... like men. What happened, that happened.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 18: 44
    +4
    Quote: FahrerLKW
    bang

    True! It was! There were evenings of friendship with * Volksarmee *. And ...? Well, shame on you ??????
  • hohol95
    hohol95 26 December 2020 22: 53
    +4
    And the funniest thing is that I was taught to hold a knife in my right hand and a fork in my left. I didn't have to teach my daughter, I almost collapsed when in a restaurant in the Swallow's Nest, she probably began to eat like this at the age of 7 without my reminders.

    And the possession of chopsticks at the table is ranked as a high level of intelligence?
    Moreover, if an Asian hostess cooked, then she wants to hear the champing and kanye of people who are happy with her food.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 26 December 2020 11: 07
    +5
    when martin switched to coal
    Hello Vladislav.
    And what plant did the open-hearth furnaces switch to coal?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 13: 15
      +8
      Nizhneserginsky Metallurgical Plant. My grandfather said that until the mid-30s, coal was burned. Then, the demand disappeared. Zhigarey became a handyman. The plus was that they began to pay wages. Previously, the work was piecework for the artel. More precisely, the family in the broad sense of the word (cousins, second cousins, uncles and nephews). Everyone in the artel received a share from this. So tribesmen were taught to work from 10-11 years old.
      According to family legends, even earlier, the grandfather's family was engaged in mining, but the Eremeevsky mine under Dolgaya Gora became scarce and in the middle of the century before last it was necessary to retrain into coal burners.
      The formation of the shares of the artel was interesting. The chief received - three shares, the senior above the pit - two, the worker - one, the assistant (mostly nephews) - half a share. "Adaptation", the box and the horse walked along the share. Boat - 2 shares. The ax should be your own, and the saws were bought in a club.
      So my ancestors organized a small ecological disaster. The plot was located on a mountain with the self-explanatory name bald. Already overgrown with a century-old forest.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 26 December 2020 14: 02
        +5
        Nizhneserginsky Metallurgical Plant.
        Against the background of the metallurgical plants of the Southern Urals of that time, it was a rather progressive enterprise.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 14: 33
          +6
          Quote: Undecim
          Nizhneserginsky Metallurgical Plant.
          Against the background of the metallurgical plants of the Southern Urals of that time, it was a rather progressive enterprise.

          Thank you for the praise, Viktor Nikolaevich.
          One of the first hydroelectric power plants in the Urals, open-hearth production.
          Today, not everything is so rosy, but the pipes are smoking - the plant is working - the city is alive!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 26 December 2020 14: 52
            +7
            This is not thanks to me, this is thanks to the German Meyer and the Jew Gunzburg. Therefore, at the Nizhne-Serginsky plant, hot blast, which was not available at most of the Ural plants in 1913, was introduced in 1886.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 28 December 2020 18: 45
    0
    In 2003 I met a friend from F. Otd - the head of the OK plywood mill left - "in the summer you won't lure anyone even for 10 pipes. And in the winter they come to the minimum wage (3 t rubles)."
    300 km from Moscow. 21 century. Everyone has a cell phone. They have already started flying to Turkey every year (not all)
  • Victor Red
    Victor Red 26 December 2020 12: 59
    +1
    Weak beginning ... but we'll see ...

    Here I am rather inclined to agree with the apro for now, read the sequel, understand what the author wanted to say by this, we will make the final conclusion. Still a star.
    Well, and a comment to Olgovich, who draws some bukaline pictures: it is worth looking at the statistics of the percentage ratio of a wooden plow and a steel dirov plow in peasant farms of that time. A very typical example.
  • bondrostov
    bondrostov 27 December 2020 16: 32
    0
    I read Ivan's Life on the advice of the author. Abomination, but not people were already taking anger! It is hard to believe that our ancestors ... The landowners treated them correctly as cattle !! The Soviets pulled them out of the mud and made them a great people !!
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 26 December 2020 04: 56
    +6
    What has changed so much that V. Shpakovsky writes almost programmatic articles in defense of the Bolsheviks.
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 06: 13
      +8
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      What has changed so much that V. Shpakovsky writes almost programmatic articles in defense of the Bolsheviks.

      History is an objective thing ... There will also be about the Bolsheviks ...
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 06: 29
        +11
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        What has changed so much that V. Shpakovsky writes almost programmatic articles in defense of the Bolsheviks.

        History is an objective thing ... There will also be about the Bolsheviks ...

        Vyacheslav Olegovich disagree. History is objective only in terms of events, the rest of the subject is subjective, sometimes to the point of disgrace. Especially in terms of conclusions.
        Thanks for the article
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 06: 50
          +7
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          History is objective only by events

          This is what I meant. The task of the researcher with all his subjectivity is to get as close as possible to reality. Although - yes - it is 100% impossible in principle. Even an eyewitness to the event!
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 26 December 2020 19: 41
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            Even an eyewitness to the event!

            First of all, an eyewitness to the event, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Trust me as a specialist in this matter. smile
            "Approaching reality", that is, as accurately as possible to reconstruct the causes, course and consequences of an event can only be those who are not affected by these events. Eyewitnesses and, especially, participants will always, I stress, always, will distort information, often doing it even consciously.
            Therefore, the larger the event, the more time must pass in order to be able to assess it objectively.
            And by the way, since I "took up the pen" (now I will beat my wife, I promised to help her in the kitchen repeat ), I will say one more thing. In your text:
            the revolution was made by the children and grandchildren of yesterday's serfs, raised by yesterday's slaves,

            In my understanding, the revolution (all revolutions) was "made" by the intelligentsia. The proletariat, which, as I understand it, you had in mind, on its own, without someone organizing, directing and giving a command, could not only replace the current political power, could not even influence the simplest improvement of economic working conditions. It was the intelligentsia who discerned the beginnings of revolutionary tendencies, found a theoretical basis for them, trained, organized and directed the proletariat, leading it, to overthrow the government. These "children and grandchildren of yesterday's serfs" themselves were certainly incapable of doing this.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 26 December 2020 08: 29
        -4
        Quote: kalibr
        history is an objective thing ..

        The story is rather the object manipulation by various subjects.

        being, little by little, the consciousness of the peasants changed

        Russia developed rapidly along the capitalist path - not only the number of workers grew, but the peasantry became "capitalist".

        The Stolypin reform was the answer. With its implementation, according to the same Ulyanov, the revolution would have been impossible, so he was in a hurry.

        The village learned literacy, management, organization: 40% of the population was covered by various forms of cooperation.

        it is interesting that the arrival of a new way of life was accompanied by such a phenomenon as an increase in the number of the mentally ill.

        To be sure, the VOR has led to a dramatic increase in the number of the mentally ill: twice already in 1918 (according to Osipov).

        In general, the number of tebils in schools from 1925 to 1990 increased 11 times

        to Ilyich Levitan. "Village"

        After 30 years, the village has changed:

        S. M. Prokudin-Gorsky. Peasant hut in the village "Martyanovoy". The Chusovaya River. 1912 year

        As a result of the "development" of the country under the next government, this village (as well as from 100 thousand other Russian villages), naturally, no trace remained.

        Article plus, we look forward to continuing hi
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 26 December 2020 08: 49
          +5
          The Stolypin reform was the answer

          One thing I don't understand is to take the land from the community in favor of a part of the peasants - where will the rest go?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 26 December 2020 08: 58
            -6
            Quote: strannik1985
            I don't understand one thing - pick up the community has land in favor of a part of the peasants - where will the rest go?

            Tell us about the essence of the reform, why they carried out huge land management work and what is a cut
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 26 December 2020 09: 06
              +5
              Didn't you assert that revolution is impossible with reform? Part of the land is taken from the community for private use, i.e. land from the majority of peasants less - the rest, what to do?
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 26 December 2020 09: 27
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          Stolypin reform. With its implementation, according to the same Ulyanov, the revolution would have been impossible, so he was in a hurry.

          Ulyanov said that with the implementation (which is unlikely) of the Stolypin reform, revolution is inevitable. And he called on "Messrs. Stolypin and Romanov" to "continue."
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 26 December 2020 10: 46
            -3
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Ulyanov said that with the implementation (which is unlikely) of the Stolypin reform, the revolution is inevitable

            Again, idle chatter: ....
            Ulyanov literally - PSS, v. 17, p. 32:
            "Further. What, ifdespite the struggle of the masses, Stolypin's policy will last long enough for the success of the "Prussian" path? then the agrarian system of Russia will become completely bourgeois, the large peasants will take almost all the allotment land for themselves, agriculture will become capitalist and no, neither radical nor non-radical, "solution" of the agrarian question under capitalism will become impossible.. The workers are now calling you to the social revolution of the proletariat, ibBut after the "solution" of the agrarian question in the Stolypin spirit, there can be no other revolution capable of seriously changing the economic conditions of the peasant masses.»
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 26 December 2020 11: 49
              +6
              And again a stupid lie ... on your part.
              "Why can Stolypin's agrarian policy enjoy" relative success "? Because in our peasantry, hostile classes of the peasant bourgeoisie and the peasant proletariat have long been created by capitalist development. Is the complete success of Stolypin's agrarian policy possible and what does that mean?
              It is possible if the circumstances are extremely favorable for Stolypin, and it means a "solution" of the agrarian question in bourgeois Russia in the sense of the final (before the proletarian revolution) strengthening of private property on all land, both landlord and peasant ....
              In fact, the agrarian question now stands in Russia as follows: for the success of Stolypin's policy, many years of violent suppression and extermination of the mass of peasants who do not want to die of hunger and be evicted from their villages are needed. There have been examples of the success of such a policy in history. It would be empty and stupid democratic phraseology if we said that in Russia the success of such a policy is "impossible." Available! But our business is to clearly show the people at what price this success is bought, and to fight with all our might for a different, shorter and faster path of capitalist agrarian development through the peasant revolution. The peasant revolution under the leadership of the proletariat in a capitalist country is difficult, very difficult, but it is possible, and one must fight for it. Three years of revolution taught us and the entire people not only that we must fight for it, but also how to fight. ...
              Further. What if, in spite of the struggle of the masses, Stolypin's policy lasts long enough for the "Prussian" path to succeed? Then the agrarian system of Russia will become completely bourgeois, the large peasants will take away almost all of the allotment land, agriculture will become capitalist, and no radical or non-radical “solution” of the agrarian question will become impossible under CAPITALISM. ...
              The workers are now calling you to the social revolution of the proletariat, because AFTER the "solution" of the agrarian question in the Stolypin spirit, THERE CANNOT BE ANY OTHER revolution capable of seriously changing the economic conditions of the peasant masses. "
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 26 December 2020 14: 25
                -5
                Quote: Sahar Medovich
                The workers are now calling you to the social revolution of the proletariat, because AFTER the "solution" of the agrarian question in the Stolypin spirit, THERE CANNOT BE ANY OTHER revolution capable of seriously changing the economic conditions of the peasant masses. "

                Name is NOW (learn. what it means), UIS minute to the revolution, for AFTER (learn the meaning) implementation of the Stolypin reforms, for the changes in agriculture necessary for Lenin - it is possible Only she, but there will be NO conditions for it: the changes that have occurred as a result of the reforms will not work.

                Got it, no?

                You make a Turak out of Ulyanov: why should he call / yell / experience NOW to a revolution, this minute, if after the reforms the revolution (in your opinion) ESPECIALLY, provided? belay

                Those. call NOW, because it is ... inevitable THEN. fool lol

                So he fussed, he was afraid that peasant Russia would become the OWNER and send him to.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 26 December 2020 16: 43
                  +6
                  You are funny. As in the case if you really do not understand the content of the text, and if you hope that others do not understand it.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  what should he call / yell / experience NOW to a revolution, this very minute, if after the reforms the revolution (in your opinion) IS MORE guaranteed?

                  And why ask a person to undergo a course of treatment now if he will have a complication afterwards and a complicated operation and a longer treatment with less hope of a positive result are inevitable? Logic, like history, is not yours.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  for AFTER (learn the meaning) of the implementation of the Stolypin reforms, only it is possible for Lenin's necessary changes in agriculture, but there will be NO conditions for it: the changes that have occurred as a result of the reforms will not give.

                  Read the text: if the "Stolypin agrarian policy" succeeds, there can be no conditions for any other revolution than the "social revolution of the proletariat." Today (the end of the 1900s) there are no such conditions in full. Russia, of course, is "pregnant" with a revolution, but things have not yet reached the point of bifurcation.
                  And we need a revolution NOW, because without it there will be "many years of violent suppression and extermination of the masses of peasants who do not want to die of hunger and be evicted from their villages" and then the situation of the MOST peasants (large - minority) will become much worse than the current one and it CANNOT be change by any reforms, in no other way, except, again, the social proletarian revolution. Those. the whole system will have to be changed. Whether Stolypin succeeds in his plan or not, the end result will be the same - revolution. Only - in direct proportion to the duration - with fewer or more human casualties. Got it, didn't it?
                  That is why Lenin called NOW, because then peasant Russia (or rather, what is left of it) will become a SLAVE, having nothing but hands. Correct understanding and forecasting of the situation and real, not fake, humanism.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 26 December 2020 17: 18
                    -5
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    You are funny. As in the case if you really do not understand the content of the text, and if you hope that others do not understand it.

                    You are entertaining. lol And this is in both cases. This is, performing in between numbers (usually while cleaning or spreading the carpet in the arena).
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    And why ask a person to undergo a course of treatment now if he will have a complication afterwards and a complex operation and a longer treatment with less hope of a positive result are inevitable?
                    Logic, like history, is not yours.

                    The murder of the state (which happened) you call ... treatment fool

                    ... And he calls for his murder right now, because later, after the reforms, the citizens will not allow him to do this.

                    Who needs an opinion from No one? lol And who were interested in the assessments of the ridiculous bankrupts who profiled EVERYTHING? belay lol
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Read the text: \ o.

                    ONCE AGAIN: They are calling NOW, THIS minute to the revolution, because AFTER the implementation of the Stolypin reforms, for the changes Lenin needs in the agricultural sector, Only she, but there will be NO conditions for it: the changes that have occurred as a result of the reforms will not bring about.

                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Correct understanding and forecasting of the situation and real, not fake, humanism.

                    The dumbest understanding of the situation, complete detachment from reality, cynical. misanthropic sadism.
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 26 December 2020 17: 32
                      +3
                      Come on ... They caught you for a lie - and you are no stranger to it and no one will be surprised here. laughing laughing laughing Go on, you are really funny!
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 December 2020 19: 03
                        -3
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Come on ... They caught you for a lie - and you are no stranger to it and no one will be surprised here.

                        You caught yourself, as always, for, yes. lol

                        The assessments of the ridiculous, disheveled, shrill clowns, who have lost to the fluff and the collapse of the clowns - there, yes! yes
                      2. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 26 December 2020 19: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The assessments of the ridiculous, disheveled, shrill clowns, who have lost to the fluff and the collapse of the clowns - there, yes!

                        A commendable example of self-criticism! good Get started! drinks
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 December 2020 19: 54
                        -1
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Commendable!


                        Now not about that ...:

                        How did it go? wink
                      4. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 27 December 2020 06: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        How did it go?

                        I think it's not a bad thing - it's not the first time for you. You must be used to it laughing laughing laughing
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 December 2020 09: 12
                        -2
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        How did it go?

                        I guess not bad


                        Can't you feel yourself already? belay As developed for you, yes ... request yes lol
                      6. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 27 December 2020 09: 22
                        0
                        They didn't even approach me. But here you are constantly ... being processed. But how! laughing good bully
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 December 2020 14: 17
                        +1
                        [
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        They didn't come close to me

                        As a rule, people avoid blown losers (disdain) yes

                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But here you are constantly ... being processed.

                        Hallucination (novolat. Hallucinatio <-lat. Alucinatio - nonsense, illusion) is a deceptive sensory perception of the world that arises under the influence of chemicals, in an altered state of consciousness, different from the usual. Hallucinations arise when drinking alcohol, some psychotropic substances.

                        Take care of yourself! yes
                      8. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 27 December 2020 16: 09
                        -1
                        And then! That is why I am not in danger of your ... torment. laughing tongue
                      9. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 December 2020 17: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That is why I am not in danger of your ... torment.

                        You were tortured long ago and in everything. lol

                        So take care of yourself! yes
                      10. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 28 December 2020 06: 11
                        -1
                        Torment me - the little hands are short. And here you are the eternal ... whipping boy. laughing
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 26 December 2020 12: 50
    +13
    Quote: Olgovich
    Again, idle chatter: ....
    Ulyanov literally - PSS, v. 17, p. 32 ...

    Olgovich, if you try to perceive what is written with the help of the brain, and not the part of your body with which you usually do it, you will undoubtedly understand that the phrase: "and none, neither radical nor non-radical, "Solution" of the agrarian question under capitalism will become impossible..." says only about the impossibility of solving the agrarian question, and not about the impossibility of revolution.
    And the words: "The workers are now calling you to social revolution of the proletariat, because after the "solution" of the agrarian question in the Stolypin spirit no other revolution capable of seriously changing the economic conditions of the peasant masses, it cannot be. "point exactly to the possibility of a revolution, and precisely a proletarian one, if Stolypin's reforms are successful, and not vice versa.
  • kalibr
    26 December 2020 10: 07
    +4
    Again, a photo is a photo, but ... there is always a BUT. There is a photo of houses in the village of Tarkhany in our region in the 30s. The roofs are straw and complete squalor. And my son-in-law (he is 45) told me that as a child he lived with his grandfather and grandmother in a village near Voronezh in a hut with ... an earthen floor! Why should I lie to him? So it was like this ...
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 26 December 2020 11: 07
      -5
      Quote: kalibr
      There is a photo of houses in the village of Tarkhany in our region in the 30s years. The roofs are straw and complete squalor. And I have a son-in-law (he 45) said that as a child he lived with his grandfather and grandmother in a village near Voronezh in a hut with ... an earthen floor!
      и

      With a son-in-law, we are talking about 1980s.

      This is the result of a completely different power

      By their end, not only huts with an earthen floor, but half the villages themselves did not exist.

      Here is an example of the colossal "development" of the above-mentioned village of Martyanovskaya under the new government:
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 15: 31
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich

        Here is an example of the colossal "development" of the above-mentioned village of Martyanovskaya under the new government:


        Olegovich, I do not like it when they start to ride on the ears.
        Modern photographs of the village of Martyanovskaya (the Chusovaya river near the Sabachi Rebra roll).



        In pre-revolutionary times, the village existed at the expense of two piers, a workshop for the construction of kolomenki and a platinum prisk. Nearby there was still a portage along which boardwalkers and kolomenki were dragged.
        The village was killed not by the "new regime", but by the railway. Refusal of the Nevyansk plant to float its products along the Chusovaya river. There has never been a small agricultural settlement.
        So today it is a typical suburban village of 120 yards.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 December 2020 17: 41
          -2
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Olegovich, I don't like it when they start pride on your ears.

          What's the tone, Kohanka? belay

          The modern village of Martyanovskaya:

          The village is small and rather deaf. Many abandoned houses.

          (written down from V.Z. Mezenin, November 1909, XNUMXR.).

          "Before there were only two surnames: the Oshurkovs, the Mezenins, and the Turlanov came later, a woman took him to his house, so the Turlanovs also went. And the Mezenins and Oshurkovs did not live here, but above, four kilometers from here, by the Martyanikha river, and then went down here, and they liked it here.

          Village was more than 300 yarda.

          And on the ears: tell us about others "survivors" deaths 60 thousand villages of the Non-Black Earth Region out of 180 thousand by 1985

          The PS pictures presented above are a photo of Prokudin Gorsky and the same place a hundred years later: NO at home, emptiness.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 20: 30
            +4
            Olegovich, the peasantry of this village was not the backbone of its existence.
            It was banal cast-iron caravans, there was a village. There are no trade relations on the river. Chusovoy, the village returned to its state at the beginning of the 18th century.
            But unlike your post, there is a village and people live in it. By the way, the peak of their development is considered not the Russian Empire, which is dear to you, but the years of Soviet power.
            However, the first photo taken from the place of the pier and the beginning of the drag. The drag is no longer like a century, why a house?
            For the rest, I do not want to be a prophet, but the future of the village as a tourist center and summer cottage settlement. The land there is not black earth, farms are concentrated upstream of the river in Kaurovka.
            There are quite a few new houses in the village; a church was even built.
            Olegovich's example is unfortunate, that's why I swear at you, why kill something that hasn't been killed yet?
            By the way, if you wish, I will choose the time to slide into a couple of dead Ural villages. Where one or two hermits really live. You can upload them.
            And lastly, do you personally live in the village?
            Best regards, I am the Cat Pan, not Pan Kohanka!
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 26 December 2020 21: 16
              -2
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              Olegovich, the peasantry of this village was not the backbone of its existence.

              I have somewhere else?
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              But unlike your post, there is a village and people live in it. By the way, the peak of their development is considered not the Russian Empire, which is dear to you, but the years of Soviet power.

              So well preserved? belay Can they compare?

              My post was about HUNDRED THOUSANDS (and there is a figure even higher, see below) of the dead villages of Russia. Can you refute?

              With the half-dead Martyanovka, based on the pictures of the same place 100 years ago and today, yes, I was half-wrong, but how does this change the essence?
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              The drag is no longer like a century, why a house?

              Indeed, why do houses exist? Can't live in them?

              More business, of course, except for the drag in the village "cannot" exist
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              By the way, if you wish, I will choose the time to slide into a couple of dead Ural villages. Where one or two hermits really live. You can upload them.

              Don't, this "good" POLRussia:
              during the period 1959-1979 years the number of rural settlements in the RSFSR atdecreased to 177,1 thousand - by 60,2%.Kovalev D. V. "Unpromising villages" // Great Russian Encyclopedia. Volume 22. - M., 2013. - P. 470-471.


              In total, over the unfortunate 20 years of the very "heyday" of the so-called POLRussia - like a cow in language .... [center] [thumb] https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2020-12/1609006374_martyanovo-
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              And lastly, do you personally live in the village?

              No.
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              Best regards, I am the Cat Pan, not Pan Kohanka!

              Respectfully also, - that's why she cut it "riding on the ears"(even if it turned out to be inaccurate).

              hi
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 26 December 2020 22: 09
                +3
                Olegovich, urbanization and the intramigration process of resettlement of people on the territory of the modern Sverdlovsk region was inevitable. Primarily due to the concentration of industry in specific centers: Sverdlovsk, Nizhny Tagil, Pervouralsk, Kamensk-Uralsky, etc.
                Along Chusovaya, Vishera, Ufa, there were dozens of villages that provided the rafting of barges, kolomnoks, boardwalkers. With the advent of the railway, they became extinct even before the revolution. The rest have lost their meaning. A similar situation has become with many settlements at the mines. The mine is depleted and the settlement dies.
                This is the lot of many monocities of the Urals, which are tied to one, at best, two factories. The plant, the mine is alive and the city or settlement. In fact, unlike other cities, the settlements of the Stone Belt are tied to ponds. Black earth is a rare and pleasant bonus that has not been paid attention to. Main dam, water hammer, resource base. Where to develop agriculture. My hometown is located on the slope of Mount Sholum, surrounded by four more mountains. The drop is under one and a half hundred meters. And these are still flowers. Chrysostom - sweat drop of five hundred meters. The factories' satellite villages have lost their significance. People are moving to megacities where there is work and prospects.
                At the same time, dying towns are being wasted. One abandoned house has two new ones. But already as estates and dachas. How do you like a summer house under 200 sq. M! And this is the norm.
                Such and such, with a formal decrease in the number of residents, cities and towns are expanding.
                Paradox, but true. An example is my neighborhood. One abandoned house. Three new ones from scratch. Plus one is being rebuilt based on the old one. Movton is simple in the city - an apartment in a small homeland of a summer residence
                I am also writing to you from home in the "village", as I am on vacation, and my family is in an "apartment" in the city. Well, somewhere like that. Let's argue about industrialization on another article by Vyacheslav.
                And no longer scare me with dead villages, I really shuddered that in three years Martyanovka died out.
                Good night, Vlad!
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 27 December 2020 08: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                  Olegovich, urbanization and the intramigration process of resettlement of people on the territory of the modern Sverdlovsk region was inevitable.

                  Good morning Vlad!

                  This is not about the Sverdlovsk region, but about Russia as a whole, in which from the 1959 census to the 1989 census HALF of rural settlements in Russia disappeared- [b] minus 150 thousand. Depopulated (this is the official term) run wild. territories inhabited by Russians over the centuries- a third of the population of Russia in 1990 lived in conditions of extinction.

                  In the Second World War, 70 thousand people suffered.

                  As for urbanization, this is the process of increasing the NUMBER of cities, i.e. villages should turn into cities, not disappear.

                  But the number of GT cities and towns is also falling.
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 26 December 2020 11: 43
    +11
    Quote: Olgovich
    Rather, history is subject to manipulation by various actors.

    You are right Olgovich. That's exactly how it is.
    Here is a vivid example of such manipulations:
    Quote: Olgovich
    The Stolypin reform was the answer. With its implementation, according to the same Ulyanov, the revolution would have been impossible, so he was in a hurry.

    One such "subject", M. Nazarov, wrote in his article "To the Leader of the Third Rome": "Lenin admitted that with the success of the Stolypin reforms, revolution would be impossible." And even gave a link to: VIL, Poln. collection op. T. 12.C. 193. which leads us ... (Tadam !!!) ... to materials on the 2nd Petersburg conference of the RSDLP 1906, held in late February - early March 1906.
    At it, a conversation about the Stolypin reforms was impossible in principle, since the Saratov governor P.A. Stolypin was appointed minister of the interior in April 1906, and chairman of the Council of Ministers in July of the same year.
    Another "subject" known on VO under the nickname "Olgovich" happily shoves this fake into his comments.
    VIL, on the other hand, had something to do with Stolypin's reform:
    "Further. What if, in spite of the struggle of the masses, the Stolypin policy holds out long enough for the success of the" Prussian "path? Then the agrarian system of Russia will become completely bourgeois, the large peasants will take away almost all of the allotment land, agriculture will become capitalist and none, not radical, nor a non-radical, "solution" of the agrarian question under capitalism will become impossible.Then conscientious Marxists will directly and openly throw out any "agrarian program" at all and tell the masses: the workers have done everything they could to ensure Russia is not Junker, but American capitalism. The workers are now calling you to the social revolution of the proletariat, for after the "solution" of the agrarian question in the Stolypin spirit, there can be no other revolution capable of seriously changing the economic conditions of the peasant masses."
    VIL. PSS, t 17, p 32.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 26 December 2020 20: 04
      +1
      Bravo, Igor!
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 26 December 2020 06: 19
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    What has changed so much that V. Shpakovsky writes almost programmatic articles in defense of the Bolsheviks.

    Well, your hands remember.
  • Crowe
    Crowe 26 December 2020 05: 06
    +21
    but the kulaks ... these just, despising this very communal psychology, lived by usury, robbing their fellow villagers and holding them in a fist on time unpaid debts.

    And here is another reason why the bulk of the people followed the Bolsheviks: social injustice. This is my passage to Olgovich & K, who sincerely wonder why their adored white movement ended up in Paris and not on the throne.
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 06: 24
      +18
      Quote: Crowe
      white movement in Paris turned out, not on the throne

      Well, then the white movement could not win in any way. Even the symbols they chose were wrong. The Soviets have a hammer and sickle (plow), they have a skull with bones and a crown of thorns. The red symbols of labor, and the whites - continuous death and suffering. Who cares for? Reds have red, whites have black and red, and black dominates over red, and also white and green (Siberia), and also the slogan of non-determination, you know, I would not go to fight for such ... You have to fight for the smart !
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 26 December 2020 06: 17
    +2
    More than a hundred years have passed, and everything in the Russian countryside has returned to normal ...
    Three kilometers from the village where my mother lives, there is a village ... She meets visitors with the same Levitanian landscapes: an overgrown skeleton of a school burned down forty years ago, rickety huts. Then, it seems, life returned on three parallel streets (but only for the summer - summer residents), and everything ends with the ruins of an old church on the other side ...
    Education and religion never returned. What for? In winter, they live there ... Three families of retirees!
    So, Vyacheslav Olegovich, nothing has changed! ...
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 06: 52
      +3
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      So, Vyacheslav Olegovich, nothing has changed! ...

      Nazarius! But in the village where I worked in 1977-80. on the contrary, a lot has changed. I'll tell you more about this sometime. The village cannot be recognized ...
  • bober1982
    bober1982 26 December 2020 06: 47
    -5
    The Ulyanov family in 1889. acquired a small estate in the Samara province, on the Alakayevka farm, Maria Alexandrovna wanted to somehow distract Volodya.
    But it was the Samara period that formed Lenin as a Marxist - he joined the local Marxist circle, read Marx a lot, wrote essays.
    And, it was in Alakayevka that, in 1893, one of the first Leninist articles was written, under the title - New economic movements in peasant life. In order not to tire with the retelling of the entire Leninist article ... the poor, kulaks, proletarians and semi-proletarians, the bourgeois way of life with a feudal bias, and the like, it is necessary to clarify that the young Volodya Ulyanov himself, like the whole family, were very enterprising, in the sense extraction of economic benefits, up to deception. Here Marxist theory diverged from practical activity.
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 06: 54
      +5
      Thanks for the addition. I completely forgot about this article ...
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 26 December 2020 07: 15
        -3
        There are many interesting things, but even more interesting about the very period of Lenin's stay ... in exile, as they said in Soviet times.
        What we can agree with Lenin is his criticism of the populists, who, as you know, urged ... ... to go to the people, to the countryside, young Ulyanov criticized them for this.
        Although the local Alakayevsky farmers did not disdain to engage in theft, including stolen a certain number of horses and cows from the Ulyanov family.
        Young Ulyanov harbored a grudge against them, in general against the peasantry. I don't say so, there is an opinion.
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 07: 41
          +2
          Quote: bober1982
          Young Ulyanov harbored a grudge against them, in general, against the peasantry.

          And Marx wrote about the idiocy of village life ...
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 26 December 2020 08: 17
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            And Marx wrote about the idiocy of village life ...

            So after all, young Ulyanov saw enough of this idiocy in practice, why he criticized the populists, discouraged impressionable young ladies from going into the village masses.
            1. kalibr
              26 December 2020 08: 17
              +3
              Quote: bober1982
              young Ulyanov saw enough of this idiocy in practice

              And I...
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 26 December 2020 08: 37
      -6
      Quote: bober1982
      Volodya Ulyanov, like the whole family, was very enterprising, in the sense of extracting economic benefits, up to deception. Here Marxist theory diverged from practical activity.

      Let us recall that these BAREs exploited not only other people's labor, but also CHILDREN'S labor: at the resort in Shushenskoye, a 13-year-old girl did all the hard housework.
    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 26 December 2020 16: 16
      -1
      "Marxist theory diverged from practical activity" quite naturally: Marx was a practitioner, and VI Lenin, relying on Marx's theory, made a revolution in practice.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 26 December 2020 16: 55
        +3
        Quote: Astra wild2
        : Marx was a practitioner

        Marx practitioner ?????? Did you write exactly what you thought? wink
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 26 December 2020 16: 58
        +2
        Quote: Astra wild2
        Marx

        Faith! Why do you need this Marxism, right?
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 26 December 2020 17: 36
          +5
          Phil77
          Today

          In what year - count
          In what land - guess
          On the highway
          Seven peasants came together:
          Seven temporarily liable,
          A smart province,
          Terpigoreva county,
          Empty-voiced volost,
          From adjacent villages:
          Zablatova, Dyryaeva,
          Razutov, Znobishin,
          Gorelova, Neelova -
          Failure identity,
          We got together and argued:
          Who lives happily,
          Freely in Russia? (C)
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 56
            +5
            Quote: bubalik
            Freely in Russia? (C)

            Seryozha, hello! Well, Nekrasov, and what? The question remains: When was the peasant / under what government was it good?
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 58
              +2
              Quote: Phil77
              Seryozha, hello!

              Here you love to appear suddenly and disappear ... suddenly. laughing
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 27 December 2020 01: 30
                +3
                What do you mean?
            2. bubalik
              bubalik 26 December 2020 18: 17
              +3
              What time period do we take?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 27 December 2020 01: 31
                +4
                Between the first and the second. drinks laughing
                Hello, Sergey.
            3. Catfish
              Catfish 27 December 2020 01: 24
              +4
              "Where can the peasants go?" How is it where, and for whom does the inn exist ?!
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 14: 21
                +1
                "Where can the peasants go?" How is it where, and for whom does the inn exist ?!

                You know, Uncle Kostya, I think the film "Athos" is very revealing in this case.
  • Deniska999
    Deniska999 26 December 2020 06: 56
    +12
    I'll add a couple of touches from my notes:

    The collapse in the countryside that broke out during the Civil War had more complex reasons than simply the "war communism" of the Reds. The First World War literally changed the village in 2-3 years. In short: even before October 1917, its sharp primitivization began.
    The historian Barynkin in the Bulletin of the Bryansk State University, 2013, who deeply studied the villages of the Non-Black Earth Region in the first third of the twentieth century, saw figures on the primitivization of agricultural implements (and the economy as a whole).

    “The crisis in agricultural engineering has been growing irreversibly since the beginning of the war. This branch of production did not receive the status of "working for defense" and the corresponding preferences. By the beginning of the spring field work in 1917, agricultural machines and implements in the country had produced 2% of the pre-war level, from the warehouses of private firms they were sold at speculative prices. Disruptions in income, price imbalances, and speculation by intermediaries led the countryside to an even weaker technical equipment of farms. The lack of raw materials (metal), the mobilization of artisans led to a decline in handicraft production, ”writes Barynkin.

    If we recall that before WWI, up to 70% of even simple agricultural tools (sickles, scythes, pitchforks, shovels, etc.) were exported mainly from Austria and Germany, and with the beginning of the war this export stopped, then we will see a picture of almost complete cessation of the technical equipment of the village.

    Further - the requisition of livestock for the needs of the front. Historians of the "white direction" generally believe that there was no particular tragedy in the loss of first Poland and then the Baltic states. Only these were the most developed economic regions of the Republic of Ingushetia. A simple example: Poland and the Baltic states accounted for up to 70% of the production of heavy horses in Russia. The very ones that carried artillery and carts.
    When these horses were gone, the military pulled their hands to the peasant horses. They were undersized, weak animals. Where the cannon was pulled by 2 heavy trucks, 8 peasant horses had to be harnessed. The Russian non-chernozem village, already experiencing a shortage of horses (up to 25% of farms were horseless, another 40% were one-horse), simply lost draft animals by the fall of 1917.

    By the sowing season of 1917 (i.e., in April-May 1917), horseless villages switched from growing grain to potatoes. It was logical. To feed a peasant family with grain (not to mention deliveries to the market), 2-2,5 hectares were needed, and they must be plowed with a horse (albeit a wooden plow). And potatoes for feeding the same family are enough 20-30 acres, and they can be dug up with a shovel.

    The requisition of cows for the front also led to the loss of animal husbandry in the village. Front-line buyers on average gave 1916 rubles per cow in 87 at a market price of 180-195 rubles. But the cow was not allowed to go to market. And therefore the peasants cut it - only so as not to give it to the front for a song - and took meat to the market (or made corned beef for themselves). By the fall of 1917, up to 60% of the dairy herd had been lost in the Smolensk, Bryansk and Oryol regions.
    In general, by the winter of 1917/18, the village came to be heavily archaized, which had switched over to subsistence farming.
  • Deniska999
    Deniska999 26 December 2020 06: 57
    +13
    The American economic historian Seymour Becker, one of the best researchers of agrarian Russia, gives a simple example of why in the late RI the nobility almost never switched to industrial capitalism.
    During the first decade after the liberation of the peasants, the price of land rose sharply and reached in 1868-1872. up to 20 rubles per tithe. In 1893-1897. the cost of tithes rose to 47 rubles. A further increase in prices over the next decade brought the price of a tithe of land to 93 rubles in 1902-1905. - growth of 615% over half a century, or an average of 12-13% per year. And this is with inflation less than 1% per year.
    A significant increase in land prices was in no way associated with an increase in the profitability of Russian agriculture - labor productivity remained low, and in the last third of the 2th century. grain prices were falling. The reason for the rise in land prices was a significant and continuously growing demand from peasants who wanted to increase their land holdings. The number of peasants has doubled in half a century, while per capita land ownership has only declined.

    Low-profit agriculture suddenly became a gold mine for landlords. They preferred not to sell it (why? The price of land is growing every year - and we must wait for the peak in prices), but to lease it to peasants.
    By 1887/88, short-term, usually annual leases (a typical form of land lease at that time) provided landlords with an annual income (relative to the market value of land) of 13,7% in 23 provinces of the Chernozem region and 25,2% in 20 provinces of the Non-Chernozem region (and this is where in some years agriculture was even unprofitable!)
    At that time, 13-25% of profitability per year was not given either by government loans, or investments in railways, or, in the vast majority, by industry. Only trade and real estate could compete with the income from leasing land to poor peasants.
    In an extreme case, the land could be mortgaged to the bank at 6-7% and get a big jackpot, and in this case the landowner won - the value of the land grew by 12-13% per year, it was impossible to go bankrupt.

    The rental economy also killed consumer demand - the peasants, instead of buying manufactured goods, gave the rent money to the landlord - the backwardness of the countryside was preserved. Rent by landlords was mainly consumed (including in excess consumption abroad) or invested in trade / real estate. And the Russian industry experienced a severe shortage of money - it was covered only by foreign loans, and then - by the transfer of the most important industries to foreign ownership.
    In the end, this landlord rent parasitism brought the country to cataclysms.
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 07: 11
      +4
      Quote: Deniska999
      In the end, this landlord rent parasitism brought the country to cataclysms.

      A very nice addition. Thank you!
    2. strannik1985
      strannik1985 26 December 2020 07: 23
      +4
      Neither subtract nor add. In principle, briefly on the topic of the article in one comment good
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 26 December 2020 12: 00
      -10%
      Quote: Deniska999
      The American economic historian Seymour Becker, one of the best researchers of agrarian Russia, gives a simple example of why in the late RI the nobility almost never switched to industrial capitalism.
      During the first decade after the liberation of the peasants, the price of land rose sharply and reached in 1868-1872. up to 20 rubles per tithe. In 1893-1897. the cost of tithes rose to 47 rubles. A further increase in prices over the next decade brought the price of a tithe of land to 93 rubles in 1902-1905. - growth of 615% over half a century, or an average of 12-13% per year. And this is with inflation less than 1% per year.
      A significant increase in land prices was in no way associated with an increase in the profitability of Russian agriculture - labor productivity remained low, and in the last third of the 2th century. grain prices were falling. The reason for the rise in land prices was a significant and continuously growing demand from peasants who wanted to increase their land holdings. The number of peasants has doubled in half a century, while per capita land ownership has only declined.

      Low-profit agriculture suddenly became a gold mine for landlords. They preferred not to sell it (why? The price of land is growing every year - and we must wait for the peak in prices), but to lease it to peasants.
      By 1887/88, short-term, usually annual leases (a typical form of land lease at that time) provided landlords with an annual income (relative to the market value of land) of 13,7% in 23 provinces of the Chernozem region and 25,2% in 20 provinces of the Non-Chernozem region (and this is where in some years agriculture was even unprofitable!)
      At that time, 13-25% of profitability per year was not given either by government loans, or investments in railways, or, in the vast majority, by industry. Only trade and real estate could compete with the income from leasing land to poor peasants.
      In an extreme case, the land could be mortgaged to the bank at 6-7% and get a big jackpot, and in this case the landowner won - the value of the land grew by 12-13% per year, it was impossible to go bankrupt.

      The rental economy also killed consumer demand - the peasants, instead of buying manufactured goods, gave the rent money to the landlord - the backwardness of the countryside was preserved. Rent by landlords was mainly consumed (including in excess consumption abroad) or invested in trade / real estate. And the Russian industry experienced a severe shortage of money - it was covered only by foreign loans, and then - by the transfer of the most important industries to foreign ownership.
      In the end, this landlord rent parasitism brought the country to cataclysms.

      Those. Russia was dying out, dying, crisis, guard ...

      Meanwhile, grain production in Russia by 1913 exceeded by one third the volume of cereal production in the USA, Canada and Argentina combined... Export of grain from Russia in 1912 fromput 15 million tons per year... Oil was exported to England in an amount twice the cost of the entire annual gold production in Siberia.

      And it was not peasant farms that produced marketable grain, etc., namely landlord estates, where there was a high labor productivity, and technology and equipment.

      And yes, the yield of "backward" Russia in 1913 was achieved by the "progressive" government only after FORTY YEARS! But even after there were years with lower yields. And then completely ... they began to buy grain abroad for foreign currency.

      PS Grain production in Russia, "dying" from the absence of sickles, fell by 7% during the war, in Germany (provided with sickles) by 15%, and in France by 30%
      1. Deniska999
        Deniska999 26 December 2020 12: 42
        +6
        Did I write the word "perishing" somewhere? I pointed out the problems. You just defend the empire as a country of jelly shores downright. I am absolutely indifferent to both her and the Soviet system. These are stages in the development of our country and our task is to identify the whole complex of reasons why everything happened the way it happened. Emotions are meaningless here, and it surprises me that you are so outraged by everything that casts a shadow over the empire.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 December 2020 14: 51
          -6
          Quote: Deniska999
          Did I write the word "perishing" somewhere? I pointed out the problems.

          Of course, they wrote: do you have at least a word in two huge texts about POSITIVE in agriculture in Russia? No?

          So how do you order to read, since you have only "crises" there, parasites, beggars, lack of money, hopelessness?

          Although Russia is the ONLY warring country of WWI, where there was NO famine of the West
          Quote: Deniska999
          You just defend the empire as a country of jelly shores downright.

          Not an empire, but Russia. And the jelly shores were there only in comparison with
          the bare "shores" of subsequent power.

          It was hard, bad, dreary, but there was hope and perspective. Then it got much worse and without prospects.

          As a matter of fact, you cannot object to anything?
          1. Deniska999
            Deniska999 26 December 2020 15: 09
            0
            In fact, you were objected below.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 26 December 2020 15: 34
              -3
              Quote: Deniska999
              In fact, you were objected below.

              No.
              Quote: Deniska999
              And again you react emotionally, I write that there were systemic problems. This does not mean that all parasites, idlers, etc.

              Where did you see the "emotions"?

              I had problems all, always and for everyone - systemic.
            2. AllXVahhaB
              AllXVahhaB 27 December 2020 14: 19
              0
              Quote: Deniska999
              In fact, you were objected below.

              Useless, this is Klim Chugunkin ...
          2. Deniska999
            Deniska999 26 December 2020 15: 14
            +1
            And again you react emotionally, I write that there were systemic problems. This does not mean that all parasites, idlers, etc.
        2. AllXVahhaB
          AllXVahhaB 27 December 2020 14: 17
          0
          This is because, dear, that you will not feel the highly spiritual crunch of a French roll)))
      2. tasha
        tasha 26 December 2020 14: 31
        +5
        Meanwhile, grain production in Russia by 1913 exceeded grain production in the United States, Canada and Argentina by one third. Grain exports from Russia in 1912 amounted to 15 million tons per year.

        With all due respect, Olgovich.
        The population of Russia in 1913 is 166-175 million. man
        USA - 100 million, Canada - 7-8 million, Argentina - 8 million. In total - about 120 mln. man. Why be surprised? Production is higher because there are more consumers.

        You are right, 83% of the marketable grain was produced on landlord and kulak farms, and for the entire huge mass of other peasants - only 17%. And what is the result? "In 1913, Russia harvested 30,3 poods of grain per capita. In the United States, 64,3 poods, Argentina, 87,4 poods, and Canada, 121 poods. Thus, in terms of grain harvest per capita, the United States ahead of tsarist Russia by two, Argentina - three, and Canada - four times. "

        Grain exports from Russia in 1912 amounted to 15 million tons per year. "We will not eat, but we will take it out" ...
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 December 2020 15: 16
          -4
          Quote: tasha
          The population of Russia in 1913 is 166-175 million. man
          USA - 100 million, Canada - 7-8 million, Argentina - 8 million. In total - about 120 mln. man. Why be surprised?

          The fact that just 50 years later, the "developed" economy of the same territory has already IMPORTED grain
          Quote: tasha
          Thus, in terms of grain harvest per capita, the United States was ahead of Tsarist Russia by two,

          The collection of pomeshiks was in no way inferior to the USA and Argentina. The capitalist Stolypin cross-farms also went to them.

          The yield grew, new technologies were introduced. Everything went wrong
          Quote: tasha
          "We'll be undernourished, but we'll take it out" ...

          This is especially about 1930-1947.

          And in Russia, the minister did NOT say this - this is a fake, launched AFTER his death
          1. tasha
            tasha 26 December 2020 16: 24
            +3
            Andrey, what happened 50 years later is a separate topic. We once talked about this.

            The main idea of ​​my commentary: information that "grain production in Russia by 1913 exceeded by one third the volume of grain production in the USA, Canada and Argentina combined" does not give anything and cannot be an example of the development of agriculture in Russia ...

            "The collection of pomeshiks was in no way inferior to the USA and Argentina. Easy. But at the same time, the peasants owned 80% of the land, and the landowners - 20 ... The question is - whose grain was exported abroad and what did 90 million peasants eat?

            "And in Russia, the minister did NOT declare such a fake, launched AFTER his death." I know. But this phrase just fits very well at that time. Chronic malnutrition, but not hunger.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 26 December 2020 16: 47
              -5
              Quote: tasha
              The main idea of ​​my commentary: information that "grain production in Russia by 1913 exceeded by one third the volume of grain production in the USA, Canada and Argentina combined" does not give anything and cannot be an example of the development of agriculture in Russia ...

              Gives an understanding of what Russia was producing enough bread not only for themselves, but also for export.
              The farm was both developed and not very well developed, but in general = see paragraph 1
              Quote: tasha
              The question is - whose grain was exported abroad and what did the 90 million peasants eat?

              A strange question: marketable grain is mainly landlord, but they ate (and dressed) much better than the 1920s, 30,40,50e, which means they were not bad.
              Quote: tasha
              ... But this phrase just fits very well at that time. Chronic malnutrition, but not hunger.

              In addition, no sideways: 3000 kcal / person in 1913 and 2880 kcal / person in 1955.
              Moreover, there were MUCH more children in Russia than adults and than in the USSR
              1. tasha
                tasha 26 December 2020 17: 05
                +1
                Russia produced enough grain not only for itself, but also for export.
                This conclusion is not correct. It should be looked at and compared with consumption in the same US in the same period. What do you mean enough? What is the point then to speak, for example, about the famine of 1947? With this approach ("bread was taken out, so it was enough" ..) I can declare that there was no hunger .. But you and I know that there was ...
                ate (and dressed) much better than the 1920s, 30,40,50, XNUMX, XNUMX, which means not bad.

                And there was no electricity, no public medicine, no education, and so on ...
                In addition, no sideways: 3000 kcal / person in 1913 and 2880 kcal / person in 1955.
                I can remind you of another 400 kcal per day .. Need?

                Olgovich, my position when discussing this or that historical period of our country is as follows - if possible, I do not try to compare with some other period (better / worse). If you compare, then with other countries at the same time, do you understand? There were problems - there were. There were achievements - there were. I am against myth-making ...
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 26 December 2020 19: 46
                  -3
                  Quote: tasha
                  This conclusion is not correct. It should be looked at and compared with consumption in the same US in the same period. What do you mean enough? What is the point then to speak, for example, about the famine of 1947? With this approach ("bread was exported, so it was enough. ".) I can declare that there was no hunger .. But you and I know that there was ...

                  I do not have a conclusion on export as a sign of sufficiency. But in Russia there was enough of it both for him and for consumption. Unlike 47g and others

                  Sufficiency means the ability to restore the energy expended on production work and body activity. By this criterion, no one in Russia died.
                  Quote: tasha
                  And there was no electricity, no public medicine, no education, and so on.

                  There was no wealth in 1913 in food and clothing - they caught up with him only after 40 years.

                  For electricity, 1970 - 25% of the settlements of state farms in Russia - WITHOUT electricity. 70% of rural Pskov region - without electricity, etc.

                  1989 g -10% from schools Russia - WITHOUT electricity. 75% without water and 90% without sewage. Most emergency

                  You can also go over rural medicine.

                  By the way, where is the sufficiency of food?
                  Quote: tasha
                  I can remind you of another 400 kcal per day .. Need?

                  It is necessary, because it is interesting
                  Quote: tasha
                  Olgovich, my position when discussing this or that historical period of our country is as follows - if possible, I do not try to compare with some other period (better / worse).

                  I understand but disagree
                  Quote: tasha
                  If you compare, then with other countries at the same time, do you understand?

                  It is possible, but one does not exclude the other.
                  Quote: tasha
                  There were problems - there were. There were achievements - there were. I am against myth-making ..

                  Here I agree completely.
                  1. tasha
                    tasha 26 December 2020 20: 21
                    +1
                    I have no conclusion on export as a sign of sufficiency
                    So why are you writing something? - "They give an understanding that Russia produced enough grain not only for itself, but also for export." ...
                    1989 -10% from Russian schools - WITHOUT electricity. 75% without water and 90% without sewage.
                    That's about without electricity - I'm not sure if you can give me a source of information? Without sewerage - I agree. He himself moved to a new three-story building of a rural school with a sewage system in 1983. And before that there was a log building built in 1938. And the convenience is yes, outside. In Siberia ... How many schools were there? What kind of education are you for? Elite schools for the elite or log schools for everyone? It is sad that at the same time, somewhere in ... another country, for political reasons, this school was built by our builders and from our materials ...

                    So, again, that's not the point. That 3000kcal / person in 1913, that 2880kcal / person in 1955. - provide a person with "the opportunity to restore the energy expended on production work and the activity of the body." But in 1913 they did not know about electricity, and in 1955 they heard something out of the way ...
                    400 kcal. It is necessary, because it is interesting
                    Uh-huh. December 1941. City of Leningrad. Compared with the diet of the peasants in 1913 ... This is the question of comparing historical periods ...
                    I understand but disagree
                    ... Just don’t tell me that for you the ideal of village life is picturesque peizans with braids and shepherdesses .. A tractor appeared in the village, and even more than one, you don’t have to go for a plow from morning to evening - is that good? The question is the price, what was paid for this tractor .. And there is also electricity ..

                    History is already turned pages.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 26 December 2020 22: 01
                      -3
                      Quote: tasha
                      So why are you writing something? - "They give an understanding that Russia produced enough grain not only for itself, but also for export.

                      For example, it is clear to me: in Russia no one dies / does not fall from hunger, at the same time it exports, which means it produces quite enough.
                      Do you have other criteria for sufficiency?
                      Quote: tasha
                      That's about without electricity - I'm not sure if you can give me a source of information?

                      More 4 thousand schools in Russia-without him, and this is in 1989! Total rural There are 40 thousand schools left. More than 20 thousand schools have been closed in 42 years!
                      Monograph Denisova "Disappearing village of Russia".
                      Quote: tasha
                      It is sad that at the same time, somewhere in ... another country, for political reasons, this school was built by our builders and from our materials ...

                      No, not like that: it was built in other REPUBLICS, but for Russian money, yes. Russia, according to the very residual principle, will do just that ...
                      Three, five, ten times more was invested in agriculture and villages in Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Kazakhstan than in Russia - read there, this is some kind of unimaginable horror.

                      In small Moldova, for example, more 800 large enterprises for 20 years after the war, energy, cities, roads, theaters, schools, recreation centers, DCs. At whose expense, considering that in 30 years of independence, not a single one?

                      Quote: tasha
                      Uh-huh. December 1941. City of Leningrad. Compared with the diet of the peasants in 1913 ... This is the question of comparing historical periods ..

                      Yes, I didn’t realize it ..
                      Quote: tasha
                      Just don’t tell me that for you the ideal of village life is picturesque peizans with braids and shepherdesses .. A tractor appeared in the village, and even more than one, you don’t have to go for a plow from morning to evening - is that good? The question is in the price, what was paid for this tractor .. And there is also electricity

                      Yes, even if there was a robot: the main thing is that people live there and be HAPPY - from work, prosperity, family, health.

                      And this did not happen: only in 20 years 1965 -1985 44% of the rural population of the Non-Black Earth Region RANGE from his small homeland wherever they look, from the hopeless free hard labor, poverty, disorder, hopelessness ...
                      The cities "sagged" from such a load on the social sector ...

                      SOMEONE began to process many millions of hectares arable land, meadows, work on farms and estates - abandoned and overgrown with forest ...
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 27 December 2020 05: 39
                        +1
                        Denisova's monograph "The Vanishing Village of Russia".
                        Thank you. Let's see, read. From the same place: "1913 ... Many provinces did not provide themselves with bread and other types of food. Thus, 100-130 thousand tons of flour and grain were imported to Smolensk and Kaluga provinces annually ..."
                        "In the Kaluga province in 1908 there were about 205 thousand otkhodniki, in the Vyatka province 250-300 thousand ...".
                        No, not like that: it was built in other REPUBLICS, but for Russian money, yes. Russia, according to the very residual principle, will do just that ...
                        I don't even want to answer this. There was a single country and all industries were built according to uniform plans, taking into account human, material, raw materials, transport accessibility and, yes, the need to develop regions. And, including (I do not exclude) dilute the Russian population, assimilate as much as possible. The process went on ... Another 50 years, and my people, for example, would calmly dissolve ...
                        And this was not the case: only in 20 years 1965 -1985 44% of the rural population of the Non-Black Earth Region RANGE from their small homeland
                        These half a million migrant workers would have run away in the same way, as the industry grew. Urbanization...
                      2. tasha
                        tasha 27 December 2020 06: 12
                        +1
                        I'll add more. In the 1960s, many families of collective farmers moved to us from the Non-Black Earth Region. The recruiters went there in an on-board car, provided lifting equipment, loaded things and went to conquer the Siberian virgin lands. Whole villages have been built ...
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 December 2020 09: 37
                        0
                        Quote: tasha
                        From the same place: "1913 ... Many provinces did not provide themselves with bread and other types of food. Thus, 100-130 thousand tons of flour and grain were imported to Smolensk and Kaluga provinces annually ..."
                        "In the Kaluga province in 1908 there were about 205 thousand migrant workers, in the Vyatka province 250-300 thousand ..."

                        There were problems, yes.
                        But they decided and, most importantly, the population grew at a fantastic pace.
                        Quote: tasha
                        I don't even want to answer this. There was a single country and all industries were built according to uniform plans, taking into account human, material, raw materials, transport accessibility and, yes, the need to develop regions.

                        This is complete, excuse me, stupidity: why is the village near Smolensk WITHOUT electricity, and in Moldova, a long time ago, everything is with it?
                        I will repeat the FACTS again:
                        Three, five, ten times more was invested in agriculture and villages in Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Kazakhstan than in Russia - read there, this is some kind of unimaginable horror.

                        Now tell us why agricultural Russia needed less tractors, money, specialists, fertilizers, agricultural roads in the Baltic states, Belarus, Kazastan.
                        Quote: tasha
                        They would run away in the same way. Urbanization...

                        For 20 years ?!
                        This is out of ignorance: read the experts.
                        The country's leadership itself recognized the disaster, but did not know WHAT to do. It rushed back and forth, but only worsened the situation ...
                        Deserted, run wild, overgrown with forests huge territories of the Russian regions, which the Russians have lived for centuries.

                        HALF of settlements in Russia GONE from the face of the earth in 30 years since 1959

                        Deputy Prime Minister of Russia Zaverukha:
                        "The center of Russia is ruined ..
                        I will take the liberty of saying that the Russian village no longer EXISTS


                        Urbanization-increase quantities cities turning villages into them, not their extinction

                        I'll add more. In the 1960s, many families of collective farmers moved to us from the Non-Black Earth Region. The recruiters went there in an on-board car, provided lifting equipment, loaded things and went to conquer the Siberian virgin lands. Whole villages have been built ...

                        In-in: GW, collectivization, repression, war, construction projects in Siberia, the north, virgin lands, land reclamation and ... no native Russia.
                      4. tasha
                        tasha 27 December 2020 10: 38
                        +2
                        From the memorandum of the Deputy Head of the Statistical Department of the RSFSR dated 04.51: "The decline in the number of the rural population is explained by the planned resettlement, organized recruitment of labor force for work in industrial enterprises, construction, the call of young people to the schools of the FZO, trade and railway schools. disorganized, mostly for study ... "
                        I think you should read more carefully Denisova's monograph. It seems like everything is laid out on the shelves, as I can judge from a cursory reading ..

                        I can assume that the Russians were becoming a nation of scientists, engineers, military men, and so on. Due to the decrease in the number of workers on the ground ... Again, the climate ...
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 December 2020 14: 31
                        0
                        Quote: tasha
                        Everything seems to be laid out on the shelves, as I can judge when fluent reading ..


                        Just about, when you have thoughtfully read all 218 pages, then we'll talk. And about the energy fund-to-weight ratio, and about 90% of depleted arable land, forests burned by chemistry, blunt reclamation, resettlement, etc.

                        Until then I see no point
                        Quote: tasha
                        I think you should read more carefully Denisova's monograph.

                        belay lol
                        Quote: tasha
                        I can assume that the Russians were becoming a nation of scientists, engineers, military men, and so on. Due to the decrease in the number of workers on the ground ...

                        The Russians became an endangered, drunken, lost nation and lost its roots and foundation, with a depopulated, catastrophic state of the territory, forced to buy even food abroad
                      6. tasha
                        tasha 27 December 2020 15: 16
                        0
                        Indeed, otherwise it throws us from side to side.

                        So far, I have only one conclusion - under any government, effective agriculture in the areas of the so-called. The non-black earth region requires huge investments of money and labor resources ...
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 December 2020 18: 09
                        -1
                        Quote: tasha
                        So far, I have only one conclusion - under any government, effective agriculture in the areas of the so-called. The non-black earth region requires huge investments of money and labor resources ...

                        Under the RI, almost nothing was needed except for teaching new technologies (which went on), land management. And was main resource-PEOPLE

                        People themselves cooperated, created, worked.

                        Now, after the ruthless and barbaric exhaustion of this most valuable resource of Russia already before the 1980s, no money will help and there are NO people.

                        Do you know how they called the Non-Black Earth Region owls. leaders, when it came to them in part, WHAT did they do?

                        "Second TSELINA"! Recognizing that they have brought the region to a state of uninhabitedness.

                        Only now there was no longer any strength for the second virgin soil: they left the Non-Black Earth Region for the first.
                      8. tasha
                        tasha 28 December 2020 06: 34
                        +1
                        Under the RI, almost nothing was needed except for teaching new technologies (which went on), land management. And there was the main resource - PEOPLE
                        Yes, and 100-130 thousand tons of grain and flour every year for two provinces. People? "In the Kaluga province in 1908 there were about 205 thousand migrant workers, in the Vyatka province 250-300 thousand ...". Just imagine that you have been given the task of solving the problem of 205 thousand migrant workers in Kaluga province. What will you do with them?
                      9. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 28 December 2020 07: 52
                        -2
                        Quote: tasha
                        Yes, and 100-130 thousand tons of grain and flour every year for two provinces.

                        1. For this, they studied - to produce more on small areas and the technology was - the manor houses worked at the level of the West.

                        Quote: tasha
                        Just imagine that you have been given the task of solving the problem of 205 thousand migrant workers in Kaluga province. What will you do with them?

                        So they are already taken:
                        The occupations of those leaving for work, as well as the places of departure, are diverse: most of them leave for factories and plants, then those who enter the service follow, mainly in St. Petersburg. and Moscow. Carpenters from the districts of Dorogobuzh, Gzhatsky and Vyazemsky go to the nearest provinces; the masons and stonecutters of the Porechsky district and the well-known everywhere grabbers, excavators and wells of the Yukhnovsky district are recruited by local contractors, who often send them to remote areas of Russia. Timber felling, rafting, procurement of shingles, shingles for roofs and timber, construction of ships for rafting to Riga, rafting of rafts with timber within the province each year occupy a lot of hands in the Belskoe and Porechsky counties. In the same districts, as well as in Dukhovshchinsky and Roslavlsky, tar is being driven and coal is being burned. Hemp screeching is common around the years. Roslavl and Krasny. Winter carriage brings considerable earnings to some volosts (s).

                        Russia then - a country of great opportunities - factories grew rapidly, there was a relocation to Siberia and the Far East, the Caucasus and Wed. Asia
                      10. tasha
                        tasha 28 December 2020 07: 59
                        0
                        Russia then - a country of great opportunities - factories grew rapidly, there was a relocation to Siberia and the Far East, the Caucasus and Wed. Asia
                        As a result, all the peasants will abandon their villages and scatter / move, and the landowners' estates (the leading collective farms) will remain. The soils are poor, without fertilizers and reclamation in any way .. Indigenous Russia has disappeared .. wink
                      11. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 28 December 2020 09: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: tasha
                        As a result, all the peasants will abandon their villages and scatter / move, and the landowners' estates (the leading collective farms) will remain. The soils are poor, without fertilizers and reclamation in any way .. Aboriginal Russia has disappeared

                        There was a surplus rural population in RI 40 million people.

                        So it was enough for EVERYTHING and the heart of Russia to preserve and equip the outskirts with RUSSIAN people.

                        The next regime quickly gobbled up both this reserve and the very basis - 10 million victims of GW, 2-5 million emigrants, millions of victims of famines of the 30-40s, the demographic catastrophe of the 1930s, etc.
                        Quote: tasha
                        The soils are poor, without fertilizers and reclamation in any way .. Aboriginal Russia has disappeared.

                        It's without a brain, in any way (1917 after). And on the same soils, the field of Europe thrives: Necheronzeye is an excellent animal husbandry (huge meadows-lump base), this is a miracle-flax, this is wonderful buckwheat, and grain, etc.
                      12. tasha
                        tasha 28 December 2020 09: 46
                        +1
                        In RI there was a surplus rural population of 40 million people.
                        Forty million (!). So they settled throughout the empire .. Because I want to eat, but there is nowhere to earn money .. And the peasants do not have land. There are no factories. Where to get land, where to build factories? In Moldavia?
                        So it was enough for EVERYTHING and the heart of Russia to preserve and equip the outskirts with RUSSIAN people.
                        And with whom did they settle down?
                      13. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 28 December 2020 09: 55
                        -1
                        Quote: tasha
                        Forty million (!). So they settled throughout the empire ..

                        They just BEGAN to settle.
                        Then the regime ate up the reserve and so ... "solved" the land issue.
                        Quote: tasha
                        And with whom did they settle down?

                        The center has become depopulated.
                      14. tasha
                        tasha 28 December 2020 10: 00
                        +1
                        The center has become depopulated.
                        So he would be depopulated anyway. And in the same way someone wrote about thousands of deserted villages in the Non-Black Earth Region. In any mode ...
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 27 December 2020 06: 55
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    But in Russia there was enough of it both for him and for consumption.

    Quote: Olgovich
    Sufficiency means the ability to restore the energy expended on production work and body activity. By this criterion, no one in Russia died.

    But contemporaries said:
    "We advise you to try bread with hemp seed, flax chaff, rotten wood (they take a rotten log, dry it, crush it and add it to flour), maybe it will also seem tasty. And how would our credit ruble rise if people ate rotten wood, and rye all could be sent abroad for sale!
    Who is not happy that bread at high prices goes abroad a lot? The peasant is only not happy, but does he, the greedy man, understand anything about the important economic issues of import and export, the restoration of the value of the credit ruble, etc. He only needs to eat everything and so that bread is cheap.
    Wheat, good clean rye, we send abroad, to the Germans who will not eat any rubbish. We burn the best, pure rye for wine, and the worst rye, with fluff, fire, sivets and all the waste obtained when cleaning rye for distilleries - that's what a man eats. But not only does the peasant eat the worst bread, he is still malnourished. If there is enough bread in the villages, they eat three times; it has become derogatory in bread, the breads are short - they eat twice, they lean more on vernal, potatoes, hemp seeds are added to bread. Of course, the stomach is full, but bad food makes people lose weight, get sick, the guys grow tighter, just like it happens with bad-fed cattle.
    Yes, they are malnourished. Yes, we do not sell excess, but what is needed. All this is true.
    Children eat worse than the calves of the owner with good livestock. The mortality rate of children is much MORE than the mortality rate of calves (-S.M.).
    If mothers ate better, if our wheat, which the German eats, remained at home, then the children would grow better and there would be no such mortality, all these typhus, scarlet fever, diphtheria would not rage. By selling our wheat to a German, we are selling our blood, that is, peasant children. (Engelhardt)
    "Russian sugar - 2 kopecks a pound - was used to feed pigs in England (and then sold to Russia, but already worth its weight in gold, Yorkshire ham). At the same time, in Russia, sugar cost 10-15 kopecks per pound. For the vast majority of Russians It was an inaccessible luxury for children, and children grew up rickets. ”Excellent beer was brewed in Munich from Russian grain bought for a pittance, but the Volga region was swollen with hunger (for example, in 1911-1912) (Kersnovsky).
    Needless to say, not the USSR, in which bread was bought in a store to feed PIGS.
    The expended energy was restored, yeah. "By this criterion, no one in Russia died." Did you die by other criteria?
    "Of the seasons, the highest mortality rate in most Western European states (in France, England, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece) is winter", and "In Russia, mortality is most severe in summer, during a mild working season" ( Brockhaus and Efron). More precisely in July and August. And besides these months - in January-March. Presumably, in winter, "expended energy was restored" so that in summer, during the harvest, mortality was the highest in a year.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 27 December 2020 09: 57
      -1
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Children feed worse than the calves of the owner with good livestock. Child mortality is much MORE than calf mortality

      letters 1880 r the same place where you always yourself

      Here's how they ate in 1933:.
      D *** remained after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers, ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of hunger.

      In the 3rd brigade, S *** drags the corpses of children from the cemetery and eats them.


      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Needless to say, not the USSR, in which bread was bought in a store to feed PIGS.

      Because some pigs did not have enough brains to provide pigs with feed
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      And besides these months - in January-March.

      Yes, we are looking at the next system:
      VOLODARSKY DISTRICT. In the village of Rudoye, having absolutely no food, by agreement with his older sister, a 9-year-old boy killed a 3-year-old girl (sister), after which they cut off her head and ate the meat of the corpse raw.
      CHERNYAKHOVSKY DISTRICT. In the village of Andreev, poor Zh *** died due to malnutrition. 11-year-old boy - with a knife he opened the belly of the deceased father, took out the insides and prepared them to cook.

      Give me more "facts" I will answer each. There is something to answer-THOUSANDS such documents.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 27 December 2020 10: 37
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        letters from 1880 to the same place where you always yourself

        Those. to the stand. Yes, right. So that every liar and ignoramus would hurt his eyes.
        To my facts (FACTS), you did not answer anything on the topic: "there was enough for both export and consumption." You have nothing to say, as always? Facts are stubborn things, but sometimes the truth is not honey and not a down jacket! yes laughing bully
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 27 December 2020 14: 39
        -1
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        Those. to the stand. Yes, right. So that every liar and ignoramus would hurt his eyes.

        Correctly, into a tube. And in the "stand" to the liar Marmeladov lol
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        To my facts (FACTS), you did not answer anything on the topic: "there was enough for both export and consumption." You have nothing to say, as always? Facts are stubborn things, but sometimes the truth is not honey and not a down jacket!

        You have NO "facts", as always, only empty fiction before last fool centuries in letters are not facts. Bring the sixteenth century, clownery.

        My facts are given (and these are not letters from a psychopathic landowner, but from the NKVD).

        And in Russia, people did NOT die of hunger, as in your presence they were dying in MILLIONS of cannibalism - this is YOUR "sufficiency." And this is a FACT.

        Got it, no?
      3. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 27 December 2020 16: 19
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Correctly, into a tube.

        You can't go into a tube - this way you won't be able to read and won't know the truth. It is necessary to multiply it and hang it above the table, above the bed, and also to sound it and set it as a signal on the phone. For your good! yes
        I have facts and correct conclusions from them. If you have facts, then you constantly misinterpret them.
        In Russia, people were constantly dying of hunger; in general, before the collective farms, the hungry existence of peasants was, so to speak, the norm. And it stopped only after and only because of the organization of collective farms. Remember this FACT and do not say any more nonsense. fool
      4. Olgovich
        Olgovich 27 December 2020 18: 23
        +1
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        You can't go into a tube - this way you won't be able to read and won't learn the truth.

        We must continue along the route "there" lol
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        I have facts and correct conclusions from them. If you have facts, then you constantly misinterpret them.

        You have NO facts, and only your "conclusions" are there again.

        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        In Russia, people were constantly dying of hunger; in general, before the collective farms, the hungry existence of peasants was, so to speak, the norm.

        People in Russia began to die of hunger in MILLIONS precisely at the collective farms since 1918, with cannibalism, corpse-eating and eating fell.

        Before you, Russia did not know this
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        And it stopped only after and only because of the organization of collective farms. Remember this FACT and do not say any more nonsense.

        After the organization of collective farms, all the people starved constantly for another 35 yearswith swelling, millions of deaths from hunger, murders in the daily queues for bread, without meat and milk: tie yourself a knot lol or hack it on your forehead
      5. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 28 December 2020 06: 07
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich
        We must continue along the route "there"

        Need, Need. I am ignorant under my breath.
        Quote: Olgovich
        You have no facts

        I have only reliable facts against which you are powerless in your deceitful anger. negative
        Quote: Olgovich
        After the organization of collective farms, the entire people starved constantly for another 35 years

        But at the same time, the "old regime" recalled it as a nightmare and prayed for the portraits of Lenin for the fact that he delivered the people from him. good
      6. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 December 2020 07: 31
        0
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        Need, Need. under the nose.

        And your nose is "there" yes
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        I have only reliable facts against which you are powerless in your deceitful anger.

        Empty chatter with you. And the facts are as follows - in Russia there is NO starvation mortality since 1891, with you, in the middle of the TWENTY century - a wild multimillion-dollar mortality unprecedented in Russia and the world
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        But at the same time, the "old regime" recalled it as a nightmare and prayed for the portraits of Lenin for the fact that he delivered the people of him

        «No bread, we are starvingand we are forced to build unrealizable socialism. Rather, war, we red partisans, nhaving received rifles, they would have seen who to fight and who to protect».

        Ayrtavsky district. “This is what the Soviet regime brought us to. We, collective farmers, eat quinoa and eat all sorts of surrogates. At the present time, everyone is against the Soviet government. The war will begin, all the red partisans, as one, will go against the deceiving Bolsheviks, because we all learned what the power of the Soviets is - in robbery and violence. ”1932
        etc.

        There are thousands of such estimates.

        And this is true, and not so-called false through and through. "newspapers" and speeches of the so-called. "LEADER": statement of the terrible day of February 1932: "The collective farmers have become wealthy people "
        On this day, more than ten thousand "wealthy" people died of HUNGER, as on other days 1932-33.

        The marmalade has no shame, no conscience
      7. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 28 December 2020 14: 26
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        And your nose is "there"

        Yours and yours alone. As required.

        Quote: Olgovich
        And the facts are as follows - in Russia there has been NO hunger mortality since 1891,

        A stupid invention of our time. The facts are that starvation mortality in Russia is a systematic phenomenon, both before and after 1891. The rest of the time is a hungry existence.
        Quote: Olgovich
        There are thousands of such estimates.

        United by rejection of the "old regime". Overall. Therefore - claims to him with marmalade, and against the red partisans. And to the whites too. They had a rare unanimity in their hatred of him.
      8. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 December 2020 15: 40
        0
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        Yours and yours alone.

        Your long there lol
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        A stupid invention of our time. The facts are that starvation mortality in Russia is a systematic phenomenon, both before and after 1891. The rest of the time is a hungry existence.

        This is a stupid lie: even Soviet "scientists" did NOT stutter about starvation after 1891.

        Got it?

        The facts are such that starvation mortality in the USSR is a systematic phenomenon 1922,23,24,25,28,31,32,33,36,37,39,46,47 years. The rest of the time - hungry existence until the 1960s ...



        Do you see how deep you sat (sat)? Compare Russia and the year of "built" socialism 1937 with the massive HUNGRY DEATH and swelling.

        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        United by rejection of the "old regime". Overall. Therefore - claims to him with marmalade, and against the red partisans. And to the whites too. They had a rare unanimity in their hatred of him.

        Unanimous hatred for the new deceitful government:
        former red partisan:
        Now everyone is against the sovereign power... The war will begin, all red partisans, as one, ngo against deceiving Bolshevikssince we all learned in what is the power of the Soviets - in robbery and violence».

        Tie yourself in a knot. For memory. lol
      9. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 28 December 2020 16: 40
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Your long there

        Mine will never be there. Yours sat down and do not let anyone in. laughing
        Quote: Olgovich
        The war will begin, all the red partisans, as one, will go against the deceiving Bolsheviks, because we all learned what the power of the Soviets is - in robbery and violence. "

        Only did not specify: WHOM will they go for. And is it important!
        Quote: Olgovich
        Unanimous hatred for the new deceitful government

        Exactly. It was on this that the White émigrés, Finns, and Germans built their calculations. Everything turned out exactly the opposite. tongue
  • AllXVahhaB
    AllXVahhaB 27 December 2020 14: 26
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    In addition, no sideways: 3000 kcal / person in 1913 and 2880 kcal / person in 1955.

    Give the source. Neither Whitcroft, nor Allen, nor Cape have such numbers ...
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 27 December 2020 06: 35
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    the "developed" economy of the same territory has already IMPORTED grain

    And grain imports - an indicator of what economy?
    "Among the countries importing P (shenitsa), Great Britain is in the first place. France is second after it ...
    ... some states, with the development of factory production in them, began to need imported bread.
    .... a new country of consumption was discovered, strenuously asking for Russian bread - this is Germany, which, being not so long ago a country of EXPORT of grain, now, thanks to the DEVELOPMENT OF ITS INDUSTRY, the development of its industry, is joining the ranks of the countries of IMPORTATION. "(Brockhaus and Efron. me - S.M.)
    The question is: who, how and why brought the German economy to the import of grain?
  • samosad
    samosad 26 December 2020 08: 52
    +3
    It does not hurt to add to what is worth reading MI Pokrovskaya "In the basements, attics and corner apartments of St. Petersburg". About the life of St. Petersburg workers. Interesting reading ..., will greatly complement our knowledge of the life of peasants.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 26 December 2020 09: 40
    +4
    The post of the author is good. He is good because it suggests the idea of ​​"extra people." After all, why did the peasants run to the cap. countries to cities? Not because someone wanted it. Marx warned 150 years ago that the progress of machines would create a problem for a person who is out of work. He listened to an interesting story of our professor. About Davos. About the fact that they do not know how to solve this problem. "But this is with them .. And with us." And then the conversation about the Russian world, about the Russian soul, about the mentality. And he backed up all this with his deeds, and I must say, impressive. But even a small percentage of unemployment can be viewed as the first sign, and the mentality is melting. Until an ordinary person feels an improvement in his life, he will consider all great construction projects nothing more than a beautiful advertisement.
  • sniperino
    sniperino 26 December 2020 10: 10
    +6
    from 1886 to 1913, the number of such patients increased 5,2 times (this despite the fact that in Russia, by tradition, such clinics were used only in the most extreme cases!), and from 1896 to 1914 the number of patients per 100 thousand inhabitants increased from 39 to 72 people. That is, the "new life" had a very hard effect on many!
    The author here does not take into account that it was at this time that both psychiatry and the tradition of referring to "similar clinics" were changing. History of psychiatry in Ingushetia in the middle of the 19th century. passed from the "monastic" period to the "psychiatric" period (1864-1917). Earlier, except for the possessed, the holy fools and the blessed, there were no other "psychos". Until the middle of the 19th century. mental illness was not even distinguished by nosological principle. After the works of Korsakov, Morel, Frese and others, even alcoholics began to be classified as "psychos", and the department's contingent for the charity and treatment of the insane expanded significantly. And in 1895, Charcot arrived in Paris and the fashion for psychiatry began in Europe: in some places it became even prestigious to be a "psycho". Our people tried to keep up. A delicate and vulnerable mental organization became something of a sign of aristocracy: hysterics went to be treated with jambs. After the Zemsky reform, the treatment of the insane was transferred to local self-government bodies, which significantly affected the increase in the number of patients from rural areas.
    Think, if there are fewer covid patients in Ukraine, this does not mean that there are actually fewer patients there, there is more discipline, or the virus is dying from lard and onions.
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 10: 54
      +1
      Quote: sniperino
      sometimes it has even become prestigious to be a "psycho".

      Not in Russia! And just not among the peasants!
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 26 December 2020 11: 04
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Not in Russia!
        And in Russia, where educated and not so aristocrats were familiar with Lombroso ("Genius and Insanity"), who equated geniuses with madmen. Newton and other greats were considered psychos. And the desire for greatness is not to be occupied by us. Perhaps because Rurik is closest to Odin in the genealogy of European monarchs.
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 11: 30
          +1
          We are talking about peasants, what aristocrats ...
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 26 December 2020 11: 32
            +2
            Have you brought statistics (5,2 times) on men? The tastes and views of the upper layers easily go down. Of the three ancient types of "psycho" only demoniacs can be tied to shame. The morality of the peasants did not resist the manifestations of foolishness and bliss, but raised them to God.
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 26 December 2020 11: 51
              +1
              Quote: sniperino
              The morale of the peasants did not resist
              PS And zemstvo doctors made diagnoses, the statistics of which you cite as proof that life was getting harder.
            2. kalibr
              26 December 2020 12: 47
              +2
              Quote: sniperino
              Have you brought statistics (5,2 times) on men? The tastes and views of the upper layers easily go down.

              That, yes, in any case Morozov does not highlight any layer ... Here I can not say anything. No information at hand.
      2. sniperino
        sniperino 26 December 2020 12: 37
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Not in Russia!
        Levitan's illustrations are imbued with love and pity, and the diagnosis of a zemstvo doctor is an attempt to apply European patterns to the life of the Russian village (or recent immigrants from it). B. Grebenshchikov's Eurocentric view sees the following
        A crowd of peyzans, picking up their skirts,
        They grab Fedya the idiot
        And fearfully tugging at the member.
        And he stands and does not blow his mustache -
        Only drool drips from the big mouth.
        Can this be cited in a historical opus to illustrate rural life?
  • ee2100
    ee2100 26 December 2020 11: 39
    +5
    The author in the form of illustrations brought the paintings of Issak Levitan and actually ranked them as photographs. OK! He is the author, he sees it that way. But he chose certain works, where devastation and dirt, but there are other works of Levitan much more famous, and what paintings he wrote traveling around Italy and France! Was it difficult to find a fisherman's shack there and capture it on canvas? But really the great Russian artists of the XNUMXth and early XNUMXth centuries "saw it this way." It was a general trend.
    When visiting the Russian Museum, this trend attracts attention. Russia in the paintings in "dull" colors, dirt all around, ruins and beautiful landscapes of Italy and France, Paris in particular. And there is nothing to say about paints.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 26 December 2020 12: 40
    +6
    You can learn a lot from it: for example, that an average-income peasant had a very decent economy, he had three horses, fifteen sheep and other cattle;

    I am tormented by vague doubts: I very much doubt that a peasant of average income would have three horses. I suppose - one, in rare cases - two. Three horses is already a kulak theme.
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 12: 44
      +4
      Quote: Mihaylov
      I am tormented by vague doubts: I very much doubt that a peasant of average income would have three horses. I suppose - one, in rare cases - two. Three horses is already a kulak theme.

      So that they do not torment you - the sources are indicated. We watch, read and find out ... We post our impressions of what we read later.
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 26 December 2020 13: 11
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        So that they do not torment you - the sources are indicated. We watch, read and find out ... We post our impressions of what we read later.

        And why are there three or more horses on a peasant farm? hi
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 15: 06
          +1
          Arable strong horse. Two draft - carts with hay to carry. Light treadmill - to harness the cart to the mowing and go to the station, draft and arable must be taken care of. And the eldest son's horse. Also arable. Two are more convenient. So not three, but even five is just right!
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 26 December 2020 15: 29
            +7
            Quote: kalibr
            Arable strong horse. Two draft - carts with hay to carry. Light treadmill - to harness the cart to the mowing and go to the station, draft and arable must be taken care of. And the eldest son's horse. Also arable. Two are more convenient. So not three, but even five is just right!

            Perhaps such "exemplary" farms were and even probably were in some small percentage of the total number of the peasantry.
            Most of the peasantry, in conditions of land scarcity, as a rule, could not support more than 1 horse.
            For the normal functioning of the peasant economy (according to the level of development of agriculture in the 19th century), 15-20 dessiatines per farm were required, in reality, most of the farms in the second half of the 19th century had 5-7 dessiatines per farm and were reduced to 3-5 dessiatines, that is at the level of survival. I can be wrong in numbers, I write from memory.
            The maintenance of 1 horse requires 1,5-2 tons of oats and 4-5 tons of hay per year (well, approximately), do not forget about the expensive salt then - about 12 kg / year.
            All this is not only required to grow and mow (hay) with an oblique molding, etc. etc. but above all, pastures and meadows are needed: land scarcity also extends to this "industry".
            To buy - this requires funds, as a rule, most of the peasantry do not have them.
            Therefore, keeping even a second horse in these conditions is an impermissible luxury.
            Hence, one of the types of kulak business - leasing horses (or lending money) to those who have problems with a horse during the hardship (died, got sick, limped - it doesn't matter), naturally at hellish interest.
            I may be wrong in something, I write from memory, but somehow so. hi
            1. kalibr
              26 December 2020 15: 31
              +1
              Yes everything is correct. But read "Ivan's Life" ...
              1. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 26 December 2020 15: 40
                +3
                Quote: kalibr
                Yes everything is correct. But read "Ivan's Life"

                Yes, I will definitely look. hi
                I am now reading "Manors and Dachas of the Russian Intelligentsia" and somehow unpleasantly struck one moment (this is the question of the peasantry): even such "respected people" and lovers of the peasantry as Nekrasov, for example, often behaved quite lordly and behaved quite lordly. For example, Nekrasov put his beloved dog at the dinner table, she was entitled to a special footman who served her. Etc. Didn't know this before. drinks
                1. kalibr
                  26 December 2020 15: 49
                  +4
                  Quote: Mihaylov
                  I am now reading "Manors and Dachas of the Russian Intelligentsia" and somehow unpleasantly struck one moment (this is the question of the peasantry): even such "respected people" and lovers of the peasantry as Nekrasov, for example, often behaved quite lordly and behaved quite lordly. For example, Nekrasov put his beloved dog at the dinner table, she was entitled to a special footman who served her. Etc. Didn't know this before.

                  Yes, it surprised me too. However, that's why I recommended this book. And how did "poor Chekhov" live, what dachas did he buy, how much did he build? They all lived in a lordly manner, for their pleasure they roamed with servants, played Monte Carlo, drank from the heart. But it was fashionable to say that the people are suffering - so they said. To the same Nekrasov, who would have said that his descendants could hardly have put a dog at the table and kept a servant ... He would have ... reduced his zeal in protecting the disadvantaged!
                2. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 14: 42
                  +1
                  For example, Nekrasov put his beloved dog at the dinner table, she was entitled to a special footman who served her.

                  But what rhymes he wrote ... about people's happiness ...
                  Vanya (in a coachman's jacket): Daddy! who built this road?
                  Dad (in a coat with a red lining): Count Pyotr Andreevich Kleinmichel, darling!
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 28 December 2020 14: 59
                    +2
                    Good afternoon Nikolai,
                    But what rhymes he wrote ... about people's happiness ...

                    And Turgenev wrote off the barinsha in Mumu from his mother, "freak" is not the right word.
                    Quote: Pane Kohanku
                    Vanya (in a coachman's jacket): Daddy! who built this road?
                    Dad (in a coat with a red lining): Count Pyotr Andreevich Kleinmichel, darling!

                    And I always liked another joke:
                    the case in Soviet times: on the bridge over the Fontanka a man is pissing, a policeman is catching him and begins to draw up a protocol. The peasant is indignant and asks the policeman: "Do we have a workers 'and peasants' state?"
                    - Workers 'and peasants'!
                    - Then why are all barons allowed, but not the worker?
                    Shows the sign: "Cast Baron Klodt". hi
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 15: 19
                      +1
                      Shows the sign: "Cast Baron Klodt".

                      Well, well, at least it was casting, but nothing else! laughing
                      There today Mr. Samsonov "another children's matinee gave out with pathos about the special path of Russia" - about the Decembrists. So, Count Alexei Orlov (who twice led the horse guard on the rebels on the Senate) had an estate in Strelna. And there were two horses made by Klodt - copies of those that he cast on the Anichkov Bridge. Disappeared in 1941.
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 28 December 2020 15: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Disappeared in 1941.

                        The Germans flooded, because the "cultured" nation.
                        There today, Mr. Samsonov "another children's matinee gave out with pathos about the special path of Russia" - about the Decembrists

                        I didn’t go, it’s better as the character said in the old film “Call me into the bright distance” - I’ll go, I’ll watch a production on TV. drinks
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 15: 39
                        +1
                        The Germans flooded, because the "cultured" nation.

                        Not, it seems, ours were removed somewhere else before the arrival of the Germans.
                        I'll go, what kind of production I'll watch on TV

                        Sergei, we started to re-watch Dead Souls with mine, with Kalyagin and other wonderful artists. good So, about the details. At the end of the first episode, Manilov (Yuri Bogatyrev) invites Chichikov to his office. And, speaking about tobacco, he recalls that in his regiment some officer is there ... - points to a picture on the wall! wink
                        This picture .. made of two!
                        From this one, which depicts the Pavlovsky Life Guards regiment - characteristic grenadiers:

                        and from this one, where, exactly, at some officer (sitting on the left below) and Manilov is pointing. Shown here is the bivouac of the Life Guards Grenadier Regiment.

                        Both paintings belong to the famous realist Fedotov.
                        Details? Yes! But they are just gorgeous! drinks
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 28 December 2020 15: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Sergei, we started to re-watch Dead Souls with mine, with Kalyagin and other wonderful artists.

                        They knew how to stage classics before, but now what:

                        We also reviewed the classics yesterday: my wife wanted "Notes of a Young Doctor" 2012 - English with Harry Potter (what's his name - Redcliffe?) drinks
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 28 December 2020 15: 58
                        +2
                        We also reviewed the classics yesterday: my wife wanted "Notes of a Young Doctor" 2012 - English with Harry Potter (what's his name - Redcliffe?)

                        Aha! I, however, with him the only thing that looked, besides Potter - is "The Woman in Black". I must say, I love horror movies. and this one - "came in"! yes
                        It ought to be "pride and prejudice", or something, to watch ... I'm talking about the series. Purely so, for self-development. drinks
                        A! I looked about the "Empty Crown" about Richard II - after Shakespeare. I like it.
                      5. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 28 December 2020 16: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        It ought to be "pride and prejudice", or something, to see ... I'm talking about the series. Purely so. for self-development

                        I shouldn't have looked, although recently we looked from the English classics "Love and Friendship" 2016. It seems to D. Austin. In general, I am indifferent to such films, but here I enjoyed it: good English actors (including K. Beckinsale and Stephen Fry), directing, costumes - everything is on the level.
                        The empty crown "looked about Richard II - according to Shakespeare.

                        Recently, it seems on "Culture" there was some series about Richard III, partially watched. hi
                      6. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 28 December 2020 16: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Aha! I, really, with him the only thing that looked, besides Potter

                        In general, I was surprised that he turned out to be a big fan of Bulgakov, I did not think that Bulgakov was popular in England.
      2. bondrostov
        bondrostov 27 December 2020 22: 19
        0
        I read a terrible and disgusting impression, first of all, from the mores of people !! And the Soviet government taught them and humanized them, first of all, made them people, not animals!
        And so, yes, there were 2 and 3 horses.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 26 December 2020 15: 19
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    So that they do not torment you - the sources are indicated. We watch, read and find out ...

    Do you have any idea how much hay you need to mow for three horses and fifteen rams for the winter? Not even including the other bastard?
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 15: 32
      0
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      sources are indicated.

      And I don’t want to understand, I don’t need it, I don’t eat hay! I am giving a source of information which is hard for you to look into.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 26 December 2020 15: 53
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        I don’t need it, I don’t eat hay!

        And even as a teacher in a rural school, you did not delve into this issue, but wondered why the villagers do not have any meat delicacies, at a time when you personally rode on the seaside on vacation. My grandfather had only 3-5 goats with a horned husband, so the whole family hesitated to mow hay with him.
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 15: 59
          -1
          Yes, Vladimir, I still don’t think about where the rabbits come from in our market. I just buy and eat them!
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 26 December 2020 17: 46
            +5
            "I still don't think about where the rabbits come from in the market" Does Kio take them out of his hat or are they growing on a tree? Joke
            1. kalibr
              26 December 2020 20: 19
              0
              Quote: Astra wild2
              Joke

              Today they were lying on the table with one man.
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 26 December 2020 21: 33
                +2
                Did he pick them from the tree?
  • ANB
    ANB 26 December 2020 13: 59
    +2
    What's so little? Just settled and that's it, "to be continued" at the most interesting place.
    We'll have to look for the book.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 26 December 2020 20: 03
      +4
      So V.O. is a "specialist" and does
    2. Normal ok
      Normal ok 27 December 2020 00: 34
      +1
      Quote: ANB
      What's so little? Just settled and that's it, "to be continued" at the most interesting place.
      We'll have to look for the book.

      A book is always more needed than a ready-made thought. Even despite the authority of Caliber))
      1. ANB
        ANB 27 December 2020 16: 50
        0
        ... A book is always more needed than a ready-made thought. Even despite the authority of Caliber))

        Downloaded. I am reading. Interesting.
  • Operator
    Operator 26 December 2020 14: 27
    +4
    The author is clearly confused in the terminology - he has post-reform peasants simultaneously bearers of both patriarchal and petty-bourgeois ideology. For this in Soviet times in a Moscow university, he would have immediately received a failure in the "History of the KPSS" laughing

    As for the Russian slaves, about which the author so often writes, as of the middle of the 19th century, half of the Russian peasants were state, i.e. was assigned to the Ministry of Appanages of the Republic of Ingushetia, therefore it was not put up for auction. A quarter of the peasants were assigned to monasteries. The position of the last quarter was very variegated - a significant part of them performed quitrent duties, i.e. economically corresponded to tenants, corvee (in-kind duties) was borne by about 1/10 of the peasantry.

    The facts that the author pedals (noble harems, sale of peasants without land, public flogging), in the overwhelming number of cases, concerned the domestic servants of the landowners, whose number did not even reach 1/100 of the peasant class.

    PS Generations are counted on a 25-year scale, not on a 20-year scale.
    Despite the author's personal enmity towards the Russian people, it was this people ("wild and uncultured" according to the article) from the middle of the 19th century to the present time overtaken in its development the "civilized" West (which developed in the same direction for 400 years), which is socially and technically degrading right before our eyes (in missile, nuclear and biological technologies).
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 15: 07
      0
      Quote: Operator
      patriarchal and petty-bourgeois ideology.

      It is the same.
      1. Operator
        Operator 26 December 2020 17: 44
        -5
        You have a solid "bad" from the point of view of the Soviet capital's university: patriarchal - communal, petty-bourgeois - individual.

        Now I understand why the USSR collapsed - because of the level of teaching "History of the CPSU" in provincial universities laughing
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 20: 15
          +2
          Any merchant is a petty bourgeois. The peasants were producers of small consignments of marketable grain. Both of these ideologies prioritize the indisputable authority of the father - hence the paternalism, that is, "fatherhood"! Is this accessible to your understanding?
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 26 December 2020 20: 25
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            paternalism, that is, "fatherhood"! This is available to your understanding

            Cease, friend, what is the authority of a sheep!
            1. kalibr
              26 December 2020 20: 38
              +1
              Quote: Phil77
              Cease, friend, what is the authority of a sheep!

              Indisputable, Sergey! Or with reins across the back. There is a very interesting book by Bestuzhev Lada "The Story of Your Parents". It is on the web and it is thin. You read ...
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 27 December 2020 11: 12
                +1
                ... and it's thin.

                It is most important. laughing Killed on the spot, Olegych. drinks
          2. Operator
            Operator 26 December 2020 20: 44
            0
            You are trying to argue with the capital's diploma student - essno, and on the "History of the KPSS".

            The rural community is the common land of the inhabitants of one village with the division of allotments by food (a typical situation in post-reform Russia), and the rural bourgeoisie is the private ownership of a family land plot (a typical situation in pre-war Russia before WWI). Patriarchy as applied to social relations in agriculture is synonymous with communality.

            Am I presenting it for your educational level? laughing
            1. kalibr
              27 December 2020 12: 05
              0
              And you are trying to argue with a person who taught all this and defended his thesis on the party leadership of university science.
              Quote: Operator
              Patriarchy as applied to social relations in agriculture is synonymous with communality.
              Patriarchy in Russia, as applied to social relations in society, is also synonymous with petty-bourgeoisness, since all this communality took place in a certain historical period and was a collection of small traders ... grain, paws, bast, spoons, tues, boxes, dried mushrooms, bacon, flax, wax .... All the peasants traded, who what ... Did it come to the diploma student? And somehow I don't care about your capital. Capital is not a symbol of the excellent!
              1. Operator
                Operator 27 December 2020 13: 01
                +2
                The key word is in the province.

                You yourself are pedaling on the cultural lag of our country, in the provinces this lag was maximum - see your theses on the needy laughing
                1. kalibr
                  27 December 2020 15: 16
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  in the provinces, this lag was maximum

                  It depends on what. You cannot look at the phenomena so narrowly. It was in the province that many famous people of Russia worked, including in the Penza province. And the "men" - in Moscow, they knocked out snot with their fingers on the pavement.
    2. kalibr
      26 December 2020 15: 08
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      Generations are counted on a 25-year scale, not a 20-year scale.

      See named authors
    3. kalibr
      26 December 2020 15: 14
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      in missile,

      Fascist Germany has overtaken everyone in rocket technology and in many other ways, but its culture can in no way be considered a role model. And what kind of degradation are we talking about? What is it in? Is it that the Vanguard flies here or were we the first to make the vaccine? But in our villages they still walk into a hole, and this is a more important indicator in the field of culture than all the avant-gardes and Poseidons combined. Even in 1991, we had more missiles and nuclear submarines than all NATO countries put together. Did this help preserve the USSR with its rich culture and the most reading population? No! They say here on VO, they bought it for beautiful promises ...
      1. Operator
        Operator 26 December 2020 17: 39
        -2
        Why are you so offended by the rural outhouse? This type of structure is abundant in the countryside of Europe and America, and before WWII it prevailed there.

        Well, essno, as soon as we do something first, it is absolutely unnecessary for anyone and is not scientific and technological revolution laughing
        So you do not get vaccinated with a non-kosher Russian vaccine, but use a super-allergic American vaccine - after all, its developers do not go into a hole.
        1. kalibr
          26 December 2020 20: 13
          +3
          Quote: Operator
          So you do not get vaccinated with a non-kosher Russian vaccine, but use a super-allergic American vaccine - after all, its developers do not go into a hole.

          So I can't, and it won't be possible for a long time ...
          1. Operator
            Operator 26 December 2020 20: 32
            -2
            Then graft on the Pfizer laughing

            Watch for self-education the American film "Green Book" (2018) about the performances of an African-American pianist in the American outback of the 1960s - there is an episode when, during a performance in a private estate, he was impatient, and the owners pointed him out to the courtyard where he stood on the lawn (suddenly) a typical Russian-Soviet outhouse.

            You just continue to think in the old Hollywood clichés, where you have never shown the prose of American rural life and you think that walking into a hole is a feature of exclusively Russian life. laughing
            1. kalibr
              26 December 2020 20: 34
              +2
              So such devices were right in the middle of American cities. I even posted a photo of such a city toilet in my article about immigrants to the United States. Should I not know this ... And about the 60s ... why not. But now is 2020 ...
              1. Operator
                Operator 26 December 2020 20: 46
                +2
                Likewise, the needy in rural America are the most alive today. laughing
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 26 December 2020 20: 57
          +1
          Actually, Vyacheslav Olegovich recently fell ill, which means he must have immunity.
          I have a friend, she in April, somewhere "caught" the crown and more than 10 days was seriously ill. Now she says: "I'm NOT AFRAID of ANYTHING: the worst is behind
          1. Operator
            Operator 26 December 2020 21: 22
            0
            Immunity to coronavirus, as well as to the influenza virus, occurs only to a specific strain, the coronavirus is already mutating - there will be new strains.
        3. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 26 December 2020 21: 21
          +2
          In fact, Vyacheslav Olegovich has recently been ill and should have immunity. If a person has immunity, then he does not need a vaccine.
          I have no immunity and I am afraid. There are many who are afraid to get infected, but not everyone says
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 27 December 2020 08: 49
            +1
            Quote: Astra wild2
            There are many who are afraid to get infected, but not everyone says

            Faith !!!!! Yes, you will come to the idea that the devil is not so * terrible as he is painted *, eh? I am afraid that with an ordinary cold you will be tortured - to be tested, to stand in line to the doctor, and prove that you are camel.Kovid19? Yes, the advertised flu! Mutated, I agree, but allowed someone to make a very good loot !!!
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 27 December 2020 13: 09
              +1
              Good day. I agree with you that COVID-19 is a flu mutation. But Rospotrebnadzor does not deny that it is 90% ARVI. True aggressive mutation
              "make a very good loot" as long as mankind exists, so many people exist who benefit from everything. Do you agree?
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 27 December 2020 14: 40
                0
                Quote: Astra wild2
                COVID-19 is a flu mutation.

                Here, Vera! Not a bad conclusion Rospotrebnadzor? No, no, are you serious? Who is she, this Mrs. Popova? Her business is to check the products from the store that go to our table. !!!!!!! Hello, move on! Popova-sabyanin. Doctors-virologists! You yourself are not funny, huh?
                1. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 27 December 2020 16: 26
                  +1
                  I don't care about your Sobyanin. We have our own "heroes" ..
                  It's not entirely clear to me myself: with what fright Rospotrebnadzor is also engaged in virology. In order to figure it out, you need to read the duties of the Federal Service for Supervision of Consumer Rights Protection and Human Welfare and departments, and they are as pleasant to me as a stick to a dog.
                  R.
                  S
                  Consumer or obscene, but this mutation of ARVI, one of the most sticky of all. How it began with: "Spanish women" are still rolling: "bird", "pork" and what else were there, and "crown" is a cousin of the flu
  • Phil77
    Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 01
    +1
    Quote: Astra wild2
    Now there is no "labor" as such.

    There is. There is an electronic version and a nostalgic paper version. bully
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 26 December 2020 21: 30
      +1
      I have a paper one. I should have written that the "Trudovy" ", in the form we are accustomed to, are falling out of use.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 26 December 2020 17: 33
    +2
    Colleagues, no matter how you treat Vyacheslav Olegovich, you cannot take away his diligence.
    For today's work, Vyacheslav Olegovich needed: pick up illustrations, pick up links. Without solid references, he is guaranteed the stigma "liar". And this requires painstaking
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 26 December 2020 17: 34
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: kalibr
    In caring for your neighbor, the main thing is not to overdo it! "

    +++++++! And most importantly, observe revolutionary restraint! laughing wink laughing

    Agree with you
  • alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 26 December 2020 18: 37
    -5
    Why would it. The author joined the Communist Party.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 26 December 2020 19: 58
    +6
    I am not an enthusiastic young lady to express my love, but I respect our brands: "Caliber" and "ViR"
    I don't always agree with us, but they force them to be read carefully. And I don’t see such "firms" anymore
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 26 December 2020 20: 06
    +1
    Ambiguous ..., but a step in the right direction, there are many other sources about the peasantry and its difficult role in the life of the country ... Collectivization was - absolutely the right step, but its execution was so sabotage-mediocre-stupid that absolutely rightly blamed on the communists. And the strength of the peasant community was very great, and with the receipt of land after the Revolution ..., a very serious political opponent of Bolshevism ... everything is very - not easy ... let the author try to write something else, the style and depth of analysis leave much to be desired ...
    1. kalibr
      26 December 2020 20: 10
      +1
      Quote: Iskazi
      the depth of analysis is poor.

      What an audience, such a depth!
      1. Iskazi
        Iskazi 26 December 2020 20: 15
        +1
        if from these positions, then everything is correct, the audience is very ambiguous, like the peasant community ..
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 26 December 2020 20: 18
        +2
        Quote: kalibr

        What an audience, such a depth!

        This is how we are. Yes!
        1. Iskazi
          Iskazi 26 December 2020 21: 26
          0
          And this is the same right ..., in the communal, in the peasant way, so it is, look how, here ...
  • Kostya Lavinyukov
    Kostya Lavinyukov 26 December 2020 20: 31
    +1
    The material and topic are interesting, but it's hard to formulate thoughts.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 26 December 2020 20: 40
    +3
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: Phil77
    Russian language.

    Teach Vera! Teach! I am drunk, it happens, but you !!!! ¡It is necessary! ¡¡

    Suddenly, looking at you, I drank too much? Each has an individual threshold of intoxication.
    For example, you have 2 bottles, and another 350 grams.
    R.
    S
    Remember "Moonshiners"? Vitsin, to get drunk, was enough to smell the moonshine.
    Suddenly, and I "smell" and start to change grammar.?
  • Jünger
    Jünger 26 December 2020 21: 52
    +1
    True, there are no generalizations in it. Everything described was related to the village of Gremyachka, Ryazan province, but this is like a drop of water in which the entire ocean is reflected!

    I think that nothing is displayed in it. In the Ryazan province there were some customs, in the black earth Voronezh province - the second, in the Don and Kuban - the third, in the Old Believer villages - the fourth, in the Ukraine ..., Arkhangelsk ... etc. and so on
    Life, as they say, determines consciousness. And he was different everywhere. Globalization did not work then and therefore the life and appearance of the chicken, for example, differed from those of the Vyatich.
    There is an excellent book by Mamin-Sibiryak "Three Ends", which shows the differences in the life of three groups of the population.
    So this "Ivan's Life" is interesting, but some conclusions can be drawn on it, as in the newspaper "Sobesednik".
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 26 December 2020 23: 19
    +4
    Quote: Operator
    You have a solid "bad" from the point of view of the Soviet capital's university: patriarchal - communal, petty-bourgeois - individual.

    From the point of view of a pre-Soviet capital university, the picture is much more complicated, in a Soviet capital university it was greatly simplified.
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok 26 December 2020 23: 50
    +6
    From personal: talked with a historian from the United States. - old grandfather. the first generation of "Americans". Dad and his parents emigrated from Odessa in 1905, after the pogroms. He showed his dad's certificate. from a real school. Well done guys: they left after the eldest son received his certificate. Conclusion: you can get out of the country all the "not like", but who will then be left? Ideologically verified?
    Road to nowhere.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 27 December 2020 01: 14
    +6

    Isaac Ilyich Levitan. "The road to the village"

    Our roads to some villages look exactly the same.
    Vyacheslav, hello and thank you! smile
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 27 December 2020 11: 03
      +2
      Much worse. trucks break such a primer at a time, unlike a cart with a horse.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 27 December 2020 11: 06
        +4
        Trucks are no longer driving - there is nothing to transport. request
        1. Ua3qhp
          Ua3qhp 27 December 2020 16: 56
          +2
          Where how. They drive with might and main. Even in the city, not all roads are paved and not on the outskirts.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 27 December 2020 22: 14
    0
    An interesting start .. remembering your "presentation", this series of articles .. began to read. It is interesting and so far everything is very objective .. I wanted to find fault that most of the factories were conditionally ours and belonged to the Western bourgeoisie, but even here you noted this moment.
    The psychology of a villager is described very accurately.
    Why do gentlemen write off our houses, ravines and fields? Wouldn't that be a bad thing?

    In general, an interesting and intriguing beginning. When is the sequel, so as not to miss?
    1. kalibr
      28 December 2020 09: 41
      0
      Quote: Svarog
      In general, an interesting and intriguing beginning. When is the sequel, so as not to miss?

      Vladimir! I write regularly and post it regularly for moderation, after about 2 articles to the third. But it does not depend on me how they will be posted on the site!
  • Sneaky Urus
    Sneaky Urus 29 December 2020 21: 55
    0
    It is not the first time that pseudoscientific articles on history "delight" the reader on VO. Not sophisticated. The authors have obvious problems with education.
  • Vladimir Maximov
    Vladimir Maximov 17 February 2021 23: 15
    -1
    And besides shit, do you have anything in your head?
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 11: 36
    +1
    "Abraham begat Isaac; Isaac begat Jacob; Jacob begat Judas and his brothers
    So, it was not in vain that I said that these reflections, by their nature, are very deep. "

    Isaac Ilyich Levitan / Years of life
    August 30, 1860 - August 4, 1900
    An interesting movie, on the roof of a rural hut -

    And it so happened that in 1888 the artist Levitan went for impressions, and this is what came of it:
    We tried to stay in the village of Chulkovo, but didn't get along there for a long time. The population, who had never seen their "masters", reacted very wildly to us.

    In 1888, they were already "gentlemen". Like this.
    Author
    Vyacheslav Shpakovsky

    did not go far.