Military Review

Armenian Prime Minister candidate: Defeat could have been avoided

81

Armenia continues to actively discuss what happened during the 44 days of the war in Nagorno-Karabakh.


At the same time, many discussions of such a plan look rather strange - if only because история does not tolerate the subjunctive mood.

One of those who nevertheless decided to reflect on another scenario for the development of events in Karabakh is a person who is being considered as a candidate for the prime minister of Armenia. This is Vazgen Manukyan, representing the political forces with the loud name “Movement to Save the Motherland”.

According to Manukyan, "defeat could have been avoided."

Vazgen Manukyan:

This is a truly bitter defeat. Both war and defeat could have been avoided with the right policy. But the authorities dragged the country into this war.

Manukyan states that the current government paid no attention to the army for over 2 years:

If they paid attention to the army, then there would be no defeat. Now there is an agreement with Azerbaijan, which we cannot violate.

The Armenian politician stressed that Pashinyan announced the signing of an agreement allegedly between Artsakh and Azerbaijan.

Vazgen Manukyan:

Then it is generally not clear what the territory of Armenia has to do with the issues of the Meghri road.

We are talking about the so-called Meghri corridor (in the south of Armenia) of communication between the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic and the rest of Azerbaijan. On the basis of the agreement, Azerbaijani citizens will be able to freely carry out transit along such a corridor, which causes rejection of many Armenian politicians.
Photos used:
Facebook / NKR Ministry of Defense
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  1. svp67
    svp67 14 December 2020 16: 05
    +5
    Armenian Prime Minister candidate: Defeat could have been avoided
    Without condition, but now we need to draw the right conclusions from this defeat, including Russia
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. ultra
        ultra 14 December 2020 16: 26
        +3
        What is this for?
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 14 December 2020 16: 40
          +6
          Quote: ultra
          What is this for?

          I don't catch up either, everything is with the guy, "the FSB, the Armenians in Karabakh, and" Lyokha Novichek "are the nephew of Zhenya's grandmother, nicknamed" God's dandelion ".
          1. Vladimir Mashkov
            Vladimir Mashkov 14 December 2020 18: 30
            +1
            Manukyan absolutely right: both war and defeat could have been avoided. But neither paying due attention to the army and means, nor preparing good defensive lines, nor good combat training are a guarantee against one-on-one defeat with Azerbaijan in the absence of a policy. And Pashinyan's policy from the very beginning was exactly this: he cheated, played tricks, flirted with Russia, enticing preferences from this cooperation, and he himself was oriented toward the West, collaborated with Soros, waiting for a convenient moment for a dash to the West. Naturally, Russia was rather cool about all this. And Pashinyan got carried away with his cunning game, launched the army. In addition, he behaved insolently with Azerbaijan and provoked it. And Azerbaijan was always preparing for victorious war, carefully watching Pashinyan. At the right moment he hit - and won!
            Both Pashinyan and his entire cunning policy are remarkably characterized by the words once said by the Duke of La Rochefoucauld: "There is no more stupid people than those who consider themselves smarter than everyone."
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 14 December 2020 20: 40
              +1
              Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
              And Pashinyan got carried away with his cunning game, launched the army. In addition, he behaved insolently with Azerbaijan and provoked it.

              He just strictly followed the points of the "checklist" issued by the owner. And at the owner's "you will not play clever games", quickly as a mangy cat, they will be thrown out for the shkiryatnik.
            2. Leeds
              Leeds 15 December 2020 01: 21
              0
              If grandma had
            3. Alex Justice
              Alex Justice 15 December 2020 07: 35
              +1
              Reconnaissance among the Armenians below the belt. They missed the preparation for war.
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 16 December 2020 08: 27
                +2
                Pashinyan fulfilled his plan - he removed from the road the Karabakh clan standing across his program of action (perhaps inspired by Soros). What actually happened? Yerevan is in place, Pashinyan is in place and steers, Putin has acquired another headache (or has acquired another foreign policy toy). Aliyev and the Sultan are the winners. Everyone is happy. Only the Karabakh Armenians and the Russian budget suck.
      3. Cron
        Cron 14 December 2020 16: 46
        +5
        In Russia, Navalny's investigation came out

        Not Navalny's investigation, but his curators, who are preparing everything for him. This string-bearer is only able to lay out ducks on the table and make faces of his young audience
        1. Avior
          Avior 14 December 2020 17: 25
          +2
          I also think that it was not he who conducted the investigation - it looks too professional, this is impossible for a non-professional. The fact that the billing of negotiations received - and then the question is how.
          And all the connections were to be traced between the negotiators, trips by different types of transport and compared - a large group of professionals worked.
          Let's see which of this is refuted, there the majority is refuted by documentary evidence, if something is invented.
          1. Imobile
            Imobile 14 December 2020 17: 43
            -3
            received billing bills - and then the question is how.
            Yarovaya's law to help. They also used this database in previous investigations.
          2. Alex777
            Alex777 14 December 2020 19: 30
            +1
            Soloviev claimed that the dad of Navalny's wife is an FSB general.
            But I don't understand what the Armenians and Navalny's "investigation" have to do with it.
            1. Avior
              Avior 14 December 2020 20: 03
              +1
              Google does not find any mention of FSB General Boris Abrosimov.
              And Soloviev, you yourself understand what source.
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 14 December 2020 20: 10
                +1
                What I don't find in Google, I search in Yandex and often find.
                For example, mirrors of your favorite movie sites. wink
                He doesn't have to have that last name.
                But this would explain why Navalny is low-sink.
                I'm not at all interested in Navalny.
                Therefore, I did not check Solovyov's information in this part. hi
                Lurie's investigations did not raise any questions in my mind before.
                PS Boris Borisovich Abrosimov is his name. Sobchak claims to be from the KGB. On the first page, Google came across.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 14 December 2020 20: 46
                  +3
                  Sobchak said that her father was from a family of KGB officers.
                  "Come from a family of hereditary KGB agents"

                  Sobchak, of course, may have such information, I admit, but she did not say anything about the FSB. and she is the only source that can be taken into account.
                  The FSB general and "a native of a family of hereditary KGB agents" are far from the same thing, you must agree
                  and the information is so-so. and no more, just gossip and fantasies to the best of the imagination of the authors. As in the link you gave, these are the usual fantasies of the writer.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 14 December 2020 20: 48
                    +1
                    Navalny is not stupid to me. Sorry. hi
                2. Avior
                  Avior 14 December 2020 20: 59
                  +2
                  And where did they get the idea that Boris Borisovich?
                  Navalny himself says that he is Boris Alexandrovich.

                  this is at least some kind of document.
                  and everything else on the Internet is just fantasy. and the phrase Sobchak, which can be understood in different ways.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 14 December 2020 21: 08
                    +2
                    https://www.kleo.ru/items/bomond/biografiya-yulii-navalnoy.shtml
                    For personal reasons, I know what the absence of a biography means. wink
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 14 December 2020 21: 20
                      +1
                      Key phrase from this link
                      This is anecdotal evidence, perhaps just rumors: ...

                      I think there is no point in discussing this topic, except for rumors about it there is still nothing.
                      smile
                      1. Alex777
                        Alex777 14 December 2020 22: 14
                        +2
                        And that's true. The general personally heard the word from Solovyov on the radio. smile
              2. Alex777
                Alex777 14 December 2020 20: 23
                +1
                Here, especially for you. It’s very strange that you didn’t find it.
                There is enough of this.
                https://19rus.info/index.php/mir-v-pautine/item/135944-israel-shamir-o-nesmertelnykh-yadakh-putina-i-navalnom-kak-agente-fsb
          3. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 14 December 2020 21: 35
            +1
            Quote: Avior
            I also think that it was not he who conducted the investigation - it looks too professional, this is impossible for a non-professional.

            True, what kind of experts are there, and even low-profile politicians, and, frankly, from a country equal to the Smolensk or Tver regions.
            And who is the expert - David Edgarovich Tonoyan, b. December 27, 1967, Ust-Kamenogorsk) - Armenian statesman and politician. Former Minister of Defense of Armenia (from May 10, 2018 to November 20, 2020)
            Passed military service ranks in the Soviet army from 1986 to 1988.
            Next - the commander of the Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army, Lieutenant General Mikael Arzumanyan - an outstanding personality. In 1991-1992, he served as a volunteer in the company of the legendary Ashot Gulyan ("The Shard"). 1992-1995 was at first deputy company commander, battalion commander, battalion commander, regiment commander. In 1995-1999 he commanded a separate reconnaissance battalion.
            He had no military education. And suddenly he became a student of the Military Academy of the Russian Ministry of Defense, and then a general. Specialists, experts, generals, but who will fight and win.
            But with Azerbaijan is a completely different story.
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 14 December 2020 20: 45
          +1
          Quote: Cron
          Not Navalny's investigation, but his curators, who are preparing everything for him.

          Although the article is not about Lyotsik (comment deleted), the owner's "Checklist" is the same for Lyokha Novichk, Pashinyan, Tikhanovskaya and Sandu. Failure to comply with any point is severely punished.
      4. Vadim Golubkov
        Vadim Golubkov 14 December 2020 17: 13
        +5
        Aren't you funny yourself? They poisoned Navalny with a chemical warfare agent, but he has nothing to do with it, what kind of toxic agent is this and even a military one? This is what happened to a man who only swallowed a little bit of Novichok vapor ... In May 1987, chemist Andrei Zheleznyakov was poisoned when an active substance leaked into the air during tests of substance A-232 (Novichok at GosNIIOChT in Moscow. Zheleznyakov was injected with an antidote, after which the chief told him to go home. On the way home his condition began to deteriorate, he began to have vivid hallucinations. After that he lost consciousness and was taken to the Sklifosovsky Institute. The KGB officers who arrived there took from the doctor of the emergency department a non-disclosure and said that Zheleznyakov “ate bad sausages.” Doctors injected Zheleznyakov with atropine, which saved his life.

        Zheleznyakov regained consciousness only ten days later and lay in intensive care for eight days after that. Despite treatment, he developed toxic hepatitis, which later developed into cirrhosis of the liver, he began to lose the ability to walk, developed weak hands, inability to read and concentrate, epilepsy, and depression. After a few months, his condition improved, but overall he was never able to recover: liver disease, weakness, epileptic seizures and trigeminal neuritis continued to haunt him. He died of a stroke in 1993.
        1. Avior
          Avior 14 December 2020 17: 28
          0
          Anything can happen. Read about the poisoning with military poisonous sarin in the Tokyo subway in 1995 - how many were poisoned and how many died.
          1. Vadim Golubkov
            Vadim Golubkov 14 December 2020 21: 01
            +2
            The chemical warfare agent is designed to incapacitate not one person on the battlefield, but a large number of soldiers, in Tokyo this happened, mass poisoning of varying severity and with a lethal outcome. A newcomer like from the same galaxy. And to eliminate one person there are other ways and other poisons, individual so to speak.
            1. Avior
              Avior 14 December 2020 21: 13
              +1
              in Tokyo, several thousand people were poisoned, only three dozen of them died.
              so that different lethality happens.
              1. Vadim Golubkov
                Vadim Golubkov 15 December 2020 04: 06
                +2
                That's right, Zorin is a weapon of mass destruction, like the Novice, so if you poison one person with a weapon of mass destruction, then you will definitely poison others. In the case of Navalny, many more people should have been poisoned, however, as with the Skripals.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 15 December 2020 09: 01
                  +1
                  It all depends on the dose received
                  1. Vadim Golubkov
                    Vadim Golubkov 15 December 2020 11: 04
                    +1
                    And besides weapons of mass destruction, there are no other substances and methods in the bins, and what is this dose that does not kill? How to select and calculate this dose from chemical weapons of mass destruction for one person in order to kill him and so that others do not poison themselves? Of course, I am an amateur, but it seems to me quite difficult, it is easier to stage an attack by hooligans, "an umbrella injection with some kind of medicine" from which a person dies within a short time of minutes, such was the case in Moscow ... for apartments "... The day before, the Moscow Investigative Committee announced the initiation of a criminal case into the murder of a woman in Moscow with an injection of an unknown drug. The pensioner was attacked in her entrance by two unknown persons, one of whom was wearing a mask with a false mustache and glasses. They injected an unknown drug into the woman's thigh and then fled. The woman managed to inform her neighbor about this, but soon died.
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 15 December 2020 13: 28
                      +2
                      I think I wrote to you about the lethality of chemical warfare agents. I hope you agree, we have clarified this issue.
                      Why one or another poison is chosen in case of poisoning is a separate question. there are many different factors.
                      hi
        2. Imobile
          Imobile 14 December 2020 17: 44
          -13%
          So the video has all the answers. It's all about Putin, for whom everything falls apart and nothing in the country works even to the dose.
        3. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 14 December 2020 20: 56
          +2
          Quote: Vadim Golubkov
          They poisoned Navalny with a combat poisonous substance, and he has nothing to do with it, what kind of poisonous substance is this, and even a military one?

          I won't say much. Tried Newbie three times. The sensations and expert opinion are as follows - "Better than our moonshine from sugar, but worse than from potatoes." Trust me people!

          Conclusion - Lyokh cannot hold a glass, not our person, ours do not fall into coma from a liter, and even more so they do not end up in German hospitals. Here a neighbor blew 1,5 and then a week later oklemalsya (half a bottle of it took, the toad is still pressing).
          1. Avior
            Avior 14 December 2020 21: 22
            +1
            Have you watched this new video?
            There are many things that can be checked.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 14 December 2020 21: 45
              0
              Quote: Avior
              Have you watched this new video?
              There are many things that can be checked.

              Of course I can check it, but it's boring to watch videos, and everyone in YouTube only makes money, but they drive "bullshit" - I don't look, I read books of smart people better. (Yes, I'll take a glass, as now, after righteous labors).
        4. The comment was deleted.
      5. svp67
        svp67 14 December 2020 17: 20
        +1
        Quote: Imobile
        In Russia, Navalny's investigation came out,

        That's not written correctly. Another OPUS written
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 14 December 2020 16: 24
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Armenian Prime Minister candidate: Defeat could have been avoided
      Without condition, but now we need to draw the right conclusions from this defeat, including Russia

      And I believe that it was not defeat that could have been avoided, but war.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 14 December 2020 20: 59
        -1
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        And I believe that it was not defeat that could have been avoided, but war.

        There is no war of no one, one of the two "Either on a shield or under a shield."
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 14 December 2020 21: 03
          0
          Quote: tihonmarine

          There is no war of no one, one of the two "Either on a shield or under a shield."

          Do you understand what you said?
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 14 December 2020 21: 05
            -1
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Do you understand what you said?

            And what is incomprehensible, Azerbaijan is "on the shield" and Armenia is "under the shield".
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 14 December 2020 21: 13
              0
              Quote: tihonmarine

              And what is incomprehensible, Azerbaijan is "on the shield" and Armenia is "under the shield".

              And how does this compare with my post to which you answered -
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              And I believe that it was not defeat that could have been avoided, but war.
              ?
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 14 December 2020 21: 57
                -1
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                And I believe that it was not defeat that could have been avoided, but war.

                Yes, it's elementary just "The war can not be avoided." The first war "Armenia on the shield", euphoria. But Azerbaijanis are stubborn, hardworking people, gained strength, while Armenians rested on their laurels. Blow-throw, and 7 districts moved to Azerbaijan. And now I ask the Question "Who escaped what?" The war was inevitable, it came unexpectedly. And what do you think, she taught the Armenians something? But the Azerbaijanis are YES. They will no longer give up their conquered territories. (Like a Russian in the Baltic, I have both friends, since we are all Russian-speaking, and I'm not on one of the two sides, because here we are together.)
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 14 December 2020 22: 57
                  0
                  Quote: tihonmarine

                  Yes, just elementary, "War can not be avoided." The first war "Armenia on the shield", euphoria. But Azerbaijanis are stubborn, hardworking people, gained strength, while Armenians rested on their laurels. Blow-throw, and 7 districts moved to Azerbaijan. And now I ask

                  Hmmm, baby talk.
              2. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 14 December 2020 22: 40
                -1
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                And how does this compare with my post to which you answered -
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                And I believe that it was not defeat that could have been avoided, but war.

                It was possible to avoid defeat, but it was necessary to give up part of the territory of Karabakh, which the Armenians seized in the 90s, but in a peaceful way.
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 14 December 2020 22: 59
                  0
                  Quote: tihonmarine

                  It was possible to avoid defeat, but it was necessary to give up part of the territory of Karabakh, which the Armenians seized in the 90s, but in a peaceful way.

                  Well, it started to come. So I wrote about this a little earlier, although the post is below.
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 14 December 2020 23: 27
                    -1
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Well, it started to come. So I wrote about this a little earlier, although the post is below.

                    But the Azerbaijanis would not have done it, and would not have done it themselves. They have support - Turkey.
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 15 December 2020 09: 54
                      -1
                      Quote: tihonmarine

                      But the Azerbaijanis would not have done it, and would not have done it themselves. They have support - Turkey.

                      What does the Turks have to do with if the Armenians undertake to return 7 regions without a war? And the NK status is proposed to be discussed at the negotiations.
                      Do not think that Aliyev is so bloodthirsty that he would not negotiate in such conditions.
                      It was the Armenians who fluffed their tail and, as a result, lost everything.
                      Therefore, I assume that the war could have been avoided if it was the brains of the Pashinyans.
                      1. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 15 December 2020 10: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Do not think that Aliyev is so bloodthirsty that he would not negotiate in such conditions.
                        It was the Armenians who fluffed their tail and, as a result, lost everything.

                        Aliyev is a smart politician, and he would have decided peacefully, but Pashinyan did not understand that Aliyev was supported by Turkey, and the Turks would help Azerbaijan in a military clash. Which is what happened. Here comes the question "Where was Pashinyan soaring that he did not notice this?"
                      2. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 15 December 2020 12: 04
                        -1
                        Quote: tihonmarine
                        Aliyev is a smart politician, and would decide peacefully

                        Did you agree that with the correct position of Armenia, the war could have been avoided?
                      3. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 15 December 2020 12: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Did you agree that with the correct position of Armenia, the war could have been avoided?

                        Of course, war could have been avoided even in the early 90s, let alone the 2000s. But for this it was necessary to drop all ambitions, turn on the brain and solve everything peacefully. But there was no one to do this, the temporary workers were busy with others. And now, what happened, you can't bring it back.
                      4. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 15 December 2020 12: 43
                        -1
                        Quote: tihonmarine
                        Of course the war could have been avoided

                        Quote: tihonmarine

                        Yes, just elementary, "War can not be avoided." The first war "Armenia on the Shield", euphoria. But Azerbaijanis are stubborn, hardworking people, gained strength, while Armenians rested on their laurels. Blow-throw, and 7 regions passed to Azerbaijan. And now I ask the Question "Who escaped what?" The war was inevitable, she

                        Your words? Think, analyze when you were right, when not.
                      5. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 15 December 2020 13: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Think, analyze when you were right, when not.

                        Here's a simple analysis, the war started, and I described the whole alignment based on the situation at the moment when war is inevitable.
                        And the war could no longer be avoided when "the horses are harnessed, the machine guns are loaded."
                        But it could have been avoided, only before Pashinyan came to power, and Pashinyan is not the person with whom you can decide something, he led Armenia to war, he himself pushed Aliyev.
                        What could be wrong, or you, that Pashinyan would have done everything according to his mind.
                      6. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 15 December 2020 20: 27
                        -2
                        Quote: tihonmarine

                        What could be wrong, or you, that Pashinyan would have done everything according to his mind.

                        You write intricately. Yulite is like in a frying pan. The question was simple - could the war be avoided? My answer - it was POSSIBLE! Everything else is from the evil one.
                      7. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 15 December 2020 23: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        My answer - it was POSSIBLE! Everything else is from the evil one.

                        Since you do not need from the evil one, then it was possible, no problem. After the first shot, raise your hands up and write the act of surrender of Armenia and Karabakh.
                      8. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 09: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: tihonmarine
                        After the first shot, put your hands up and pee the act

                        And you don't have enough brains for "before the shot"?
                      9. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 16 December 2020 09: 29
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        And you don't have enough brains for "before the shot"?

                        So you ask Pashinyan about this, I was not the first to cover it.
                      10. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 09: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: tihonmarine


                        So you ask Pashinyan about this, I was not the first to cover it.

                        Forgive me, but what does Pashinyan of all stripes and ranks have to do with it? We discussed the question of whether, in principle, it was possible to avoid war. I said yes. You are engaged in outright demagoguery. Are you like that in life or you just have nothing to do?
                      11. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 16 December 2020 11: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        I said yes. You are engaged in outright demagoguery. Are you like that in life or you just have nothing to do?

                        And here is demagoguery. It's easier, you wanted to know if the war could have been avoided. You can, but you had to think earlier, and if you had already bitten the bit, then nothing would have stopped the war. Aliyev clearly decided to return Karabakh, for which he prepared the army, knowing that he would win.
                      12. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 13: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: tihonmarine

                        And here is demagoguery. It's easier, you wanted to know if the war could have been avoided. You can, but you had to think before,

                        Am I talking about avoiding it when it started? Are you out of your mind? Are you engaged in demagoguery again?
                      13. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 16 December 2020 13: 12
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Am I talking about avoiding it when it started? Are you out of your mind? Are you engaged in demagoguery again?

                        Well, it means that this war had to be ended before the Armenians captured 7 regions of Azerbaijan. And after the 90s, the war did not stop, but smoldered. And who could stop her, WHO ???
                      14. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 14: 18
                        -1
                        Quote: tihonmarine
                        WHO ???

                        Armenians !!! By agreeing to the voluntary return of 7 captured regions and, on the basis of this voluntariness, to beg for autonomy from Baku for Karabakh.
                        All. Empty chatter is boring. I wish you well.
                      15. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 16 December 2020 15: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Empty chatter is boring. I wish you well.

                        Praying late, Karabakh bye-bye. And if you are bored, then I wish you good health. And I have before 9 pm, too, hello at work.
  • Xenofont
    Xenofont 14 December 2020 22: 37
    +1
    On the shield, the ancient Greeks carried dead fighters, hence the steady expression: "... il on a shield il with a shield". Like, pan or lost.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 December 2020 13: 10
      0
      Quote: Xenofont
      Like, pan or miss.

      And when you start a war in which you cannot win from the beginning, it is clear that "you will already be under the shield" and without respect. For Pashinyan, it worked "Pan or disappear", but he did not know such a saying. Although "disappeared" was already a foregone conclusion.
  • SSR
    SSR 14 December 2020 21: 54
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Armenian Prime Minister candidate: Defeat could have been avoided
    Without condition, but now we need to draw the right conclusions from this defeat, including Russia

    There are no words.
    Dear Strategist, the Russian press, very little "covered" this conflict, because even before you, everything was a foregone conclusion.
    Everyone is worthy of his "tariff plan", someone received a tariff - finished.
  • Avior
    Avior 14 December 2020 16: 30
    +14
    The defeat could have been avoided.
    For this, twenty or fifteen years ago, when it became obvious that Armenia in financial terms could not resist Azerbaijan in terms of its capabilities, it was necessary not to wait for Baku to realize its military capabilities, but to agree on virtually the same conditions as after war agreed. Only the Armenians puffed out their cheeks.
    And the fact that they were given 5 billion for the same thing, and they refused the importance, is generally an epic failure.
    There would be no war, we received the money with honor, and the impetus to the Armenian economy would be very strong - they gave two annual budgets.
    But the Armenians dumped everything. And they persist.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 14 December 2020 17: 51
      +2
      I agree completely. Nothing would help them. The army and defense must be built purposefully, bit by bit. With their then capabilities - decades. No, they preferred internal squabbles and quarrels with Russia.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 14 December 2020 18: 49
        +3
        Quote: 210ox
        I agree completely. Nothing would help them. The army and defense must be built purposefully, bit by bit. With their then capabilities - decades. No, they preferred internal squabbles and quarrels with Russia.

        With such a terrain, during such a period of time, even with small budgets, they could build an impregnable mountain fortification. It's just that no one was doing this, and the Azerbaijanis were not considered as people, not seeing them as an enemy.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 14 December 2020 21: 10
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar

          With such a terrain, during such a period of time, even with small budgets, they could build an impregnable mountain fortification.

          Sir, listen to smart ones, not me - there are no impregnable fortresses.
          Mannerheim Line, Maginot Line, Atlantic Wall to help you.
          The Armenians had to sit down at the negotiating table and, with the help of concessions (to return the captured regions), to achieve, at least, the autonomy of Karabakh, and as a maximum, its independence.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 December 2020 21: 53
            -1
            This is understandable and I agree with that. I just write that if you want to save something by force, you need to prepare for it properly. hi
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 15 December 2020 13: 13
        0
        Quote: 210ox
        Nothing would help them.

        Only one thing would help, after the first shot to raise "hands up the hill" and surrender at the mercy of the winner. Then the children would remain alive on both sides.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 14 December 2020 16: 30
    +2
    How not to remember the axiom that victory has a thousand fathers, and defeat is a round orphan. ...
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 December 2020 17: 00
      +4
      Pashinyan is drawn to paternity, according to the principle - who is the last, he and dad smile
  • APASUS
    APASUS 14 December 2020 16: 53
    +3
    We are talking about the so-called Meghri corridor (in the south of Armenia) of communication between the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic and the rest of Azerbaijan. On the basis of the agreement, Azerbaijani citizens will be able to freely carry out transit along such a corridor, which causes rejection of many Armenian politicians.

    Seeing new politicians in Armenia are also pulling the country into war?
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 December 2020 13: 20
      +1
      Quote: APASUS
      Seeing new politicians in Armenia are also pulling the country into war?

      Forgotten the history of the early 20th century. And forgetfulness, oh, how it takes revenge.
  • svoit
    svoit 14 December 2020 16: 53
    0
    Well, these politicians, who are against it, I can go to Karabakh, leaving my teeth on a shelf in Yerevan, anyway they won't have to eat anything as soon as the Lachin corridor is closed
  • Dmitry Makarov
    Dmitry Makarov 14 December 2020 17: 06
    +4
    And the chest opened simply:
    Ukrainians began to pursue an Anti-Russian policy, and Crimea returned to the Native Harbor.
    the Armenians began to pursue an Anti-Russian policy, and Karabakh returned to the Native Harbor.
    Now, both those and others, whining, they say, this could have been avoided, and gush with delusional speculation.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 14 December 2020 17: 11
    0
    Soviet joke.

    - Comrade Warrant Officer, can you stop the tank?

    - Yes, I can, Comrade General!

    - Well, stop.

     - Tank, stop! One-two ... laughing
  • Andrey Stavropolsky
    Andrey Stavropolsky 14 December 2020 18: 02
    +3
    In the first Karabakh they fought with weapons and ammunition from the Soviet garrisons, fuels and lubricants and spare parts from the same place. Those. it was all for free. And now all this has to be bought for the money that the Armenian diaspora has but the state of Armenia does not have. And the Azeris have it, so they won.
  • iouris
    iouris 14 December 2020 18: 23
    0
    Pashinyan's owners needed a defeat in Karabakh. Complete.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 15 December 2020 18: 27
    -1
    At the same time, many discussions of such a plan look rather strange - if only because history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood.

    Why were they so up against him? In your opinion, everything is a foregone conclusion from the moment a person appeared? What a dogmatism.