Military Review

The death of the Romanovs - did the emperor and his family have a chance of salvation?

401

Before starting a conversation about the tragedy of the Romanov family (let's call things by their proper names - after the abdication of Nicholas II it became not entirely correct to call it imperial), it is worth mentioning that absolute, one hundred percent and 100% confirmed confidence that in the basement “ Ipatiev House ”, it was its members who were killed, today they are not. This, however, is a topic for a completely different conversation, but we will still try to find out if there were alternatives to the scenario that ended in the fatal basement.


The All-Russian autocrat, Nicholas II Romanov, abdicated the throne himself, de jure, voluntarily and being in his right mind and firm memory. In any case, no "revolutionary sailors" and similar menacing characters with Mauser or Nagans behind him loomed. The emperor's abdication was made both for himself and for his own son in favor of the Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich. He again, of his own free will, and not in the torture basements, transferred all power to the Provisional Government.

That's all. The autocracy in Russia ended as such. In any case, none of the Romanov family could claim her throne anymore. Did those who took power both in February and later and in October 1917 know about this? They knew perfectly well - people were completely intelligent and very educated. Talking about the danger of Nicholas as the "banner of the White movement" was not worth and is not worth a damn. What a banner there ... So why shoot ?! The thing is that no one was going to kill either the former emperor, much less his children and household members. But to save - even more so.

Judge for yourself - Nicholas abdicated on March 15 and was left to himself for five days. The "arrest of the royal family", carried out by General Kornilov on March 20, was by and large a pure fiction and served, according to the general himself, primarily to protect the former crowned persons from the soldiers of the Tsarskoye Selo garrison who had lost fear. Could Nicholas, with the desire, will, and courage, leave the easy captivity in the Tsarskoye Selo Alexander Palace, in which he and his relatives spent almost six months? Easily.

Order of the Provisional Government? Do not be ridiculous ... The orders of this, excuse the expression, of the "authority" were carried out not even through one - much less often. There were a lot of officers and generals around, including "specialists" from the intelligence of other, very specific structures, who were able to cope with the sparse security without much straining. Such a mess was going on in the country that not only the former emperor, but anyone in general could get lost and dissolve in it. So why did it become?

First of all, Nicholas has neither will, nor character, nor ability to make really important decisions, let us be frank, there was no way of life. Swam with the flow - that sailed. In addition, it must be admitted that among the enormous number of Russian officers, and even just nobles, there was not a single one wishing to save their own "supreme sovereign"! And it's not about cowardice, unwillingness to risk their lives - the same people then desperately fought on the fronts of the Civilian, perfectly understanding all its hopelessness. Nobody just wanted to save Nikolai. I didn't consider it worthy ... That is the tragedy.

And the royal family had nowhere to run. All the talk that one of the "interim" ministers, Pavel Milyukov, allegedly got London's consent to accept the Romanov couple "for permanent residence" and was going to float the prisoners there out of harm's way, but "changed circumstances" in Britain itself interfered - most likely, nothing more than another fairy tale. Neither the German Kaiser Wilhelm II, nor the British King George V, even though Nicholas was a direct and blood relative to them, and not just a "colleague" in wearing the crown, categorically did not want to see him. Why did it happen?

Well, with the Germans, let's say, everything is clear - the enemies, after all. And the British? The answer here almost certainly lies in such a banal and mundane thing as money. Rather, a lot of money. The amount of "royal gold" that was irretrievably and without a trace "lost" in Foggy Albion is still hotly debated by researchers. Some call the colossal amount of 400 tons that went there as collateral for loans for the war, and even add to this 5 tons of the "personal" gold of the emperor, who also did not know where to go in England.

Yes, for the sake of such money, many will not regret their own mother, not like a cousin. And the Anglo-Saxon sirs - and even more so. By the way, with the United States, where, again, according to rumors, they were supposedly going to transport the Romanovs from Tobolsk, история exactly the same. During the First World War, a lot of Russian gold also flowed over the ocean - and they ordered cartridges there, and rifles, and much more. And these are only known deals. The Americans, which is typical, did not return a single chervonchik, and even the produced weapon with ammunition was flatly refused to be transferred to the Russians - either red or white. And they certainly did not need a former emperor who could make very specific material claims - in any form and status.

White movement? "Gentlemen, officers, blue princes ..." who fought with the Bolsheviks like "for the faith, the Tsar and the Fatherland"? So after all, they, who had many chances and absolutely every opportunity to take Yekaterinburg and save the prisoners of the Ipatiev House, did not need the Romanovs either! The city was captured - for some reason, 8 days after the execution, and almost the last of all those taken by the Kolchakites in the Urals in the spring and summer of 1918. According to the memoirs of contemporaries, the ridiculous "garrison" of Yekaterinburg, which did not reach up to a hundred people, with rusty "Berdanks" could, if desired, disperse a company of Cossacks. But there was no desire, as well as no order.

Maybe the whole point is that to Admiral Kolchak, who had declared himself by that time the “Supreme Ruler of Russia” without false modesty, some kind of Romanov with his family was not only useless, but in fact, dangerous? In no case should one blame their deaths on the "bloodthirsty Bolsheviks" alone. To consider this tragedy is rather an inevitability, to which all the events preceding it and the ruthless logic of history led.
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Photo from Wikipedia Nicholas II after abdication
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  1. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 13 December 2020 05: 00
    +46
    George Cross in the photo, for what did you get it? the first question and the second question: - why were you ranked among the saints? what did the saint do for Vera? Passion-bearers, the term was invented ... of course I feel sorry for the children. But how many millions of Russian soldiers died and families suffered?
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 13 December 2020 05: 09
      +32
      Quote: aybolyt678
      George Cross in the photo, for what did you get it?

      was on the southwestern front in 15, a few kilometers from the front-line, the whole "feat" to the penny.
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Why were you ranked among the saints?

      what times, such and "saints" ....
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 13 December 2020 05: 23
        +3
        Quote: Aerodrome
        was on the southwestern front in 15, a few kilometers from the front-line, the whole "feat" to the penny.

        but was George given for the actions that led to the victory?
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 13 December 2020 05: 32
          +25
          Quote: aybolyt678
          Quote: Aerodrome
          was on the southwestern front in 15, a few kilometers from the front-line, the whole "feat" to the penny.

          but was George given for the actions that led to the victory?

          as well as "Hero" ... now they also give ... strange. request
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 13 December 2020 08: 49
            +11
            as well as "Hero" ... now they also give ... strange. request

            I have a suspicion that Kindersurprise similarly became a Hero
            1. qQQQ
              qQQQ 13 December 2020 09: 54
              +11
              Quote: Aviator_
              I have a suspicion that Kindersurprise similarly became a Hero

              That's about Kindersurprise, you're in vain. Probably the only one who works, our nuclear industry is quite advanced, but he himself does not shine anywhere, does not flicker on screens, no one has dug anything about his millions and billions, in general, I personally like him as a specialist.
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 13 December 2020 11: 27
                +5
                no one has dug up anything about his millions and billions, in general, I personally like him as a specialist.

                And in what way did he prove himself as a specialist? Maybe MEPhI graduated and worked in the nuclear industry later? However, no - he graduated from the shipbuilding faculty of the Gorky Institute of Water Transport Engineers (1984) and the Academy of National Economy under the Government of the Russian Federation with a degree in finance and banking (1993). As for the fact that he does not have "millions and billions" - so the well-known "nyasha" N. Poklonskaya not so long ago in the income statement also indicated that she has only a khrushchev-kopeck piece in Crimea, and she is a single mother. And Kindersurprise, probably, does not interfere too much with work, but he accumulated enough funds during the default.
                1. Egor53
                  Egor53 13 December 2020 11: 47
                  +16
                  Rosatom works great for us. Despite the activities of Kindersurprise, or because of her - I do not know.
                  The fact that Kiriyenko's (Ezraeli's) education is not specialized should not worry anyone.
                  It was not Kurchatov and Khariton who did the most to create our nuclear weapons, but Beria Lavrenty Pavlovich - also not a nuclear scientist by education.
                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 13 December 2020 11: 58
                    +19
                    Well, perhaps you shouldn't equate Lavrenty Pavlovich with Kindersurprise. Lavrenty, even before his appointment to the Atomic Project, proved to be a good organizer, and what made Kindersurprise famous before that?
                    1. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 13 December 2020 12: 13
                      +3
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      What was Kindersurprise famous for before?

                      kinder, he took a hit for an unpopular measure - he made the dollar 4 times more expensive! as a result, a year later we got Russian chicken.
                      1. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 13 December 2020 13: 16
                        +11
                        made the dollar 4 times more expensive!

                        At the same time, those of our producers, whose funds were in rubles, went bankrupt, and those who had them in dollars were enriched. I have a vague suspicion that Kindersurprise did not remain at the expense of this. As for chicken, this is a political decision, again, I'm not very sure that chicken feed is not imported.
                      2. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 December 2020 18: 26
                        -1
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        At the same time, those of our producers, whose funds were in rubles, went bankrupt, and those who had them in dollars were enriched.

                        Why did it happen? the merchants who had dollars at that moment got rich, yes. Whoever had the means of production won everything.
                      3. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 13 December 2020 19: 52
                        +6
                        Whoever had the means of production won everything.

                        It looks like you are a theoretical businessman. Do you seriously think that the default has become a blessing for a fisherman in the Kuril Islands, which works in a ruble environment? The winners were only those fishers (apart from foreign ones) that had joint ventures and, accordingly, had capital in foreign currency.
                      4. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 December 2020 20: 58
                        +5
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        It looks like you are a theoretical merchant

                        I confess to you love I am an entrepreneur with 31 years of experience. He completed his postgraduate studies without interruption and defended himself. Let me remind you that whoever had rubles at the time of default, everyone lost. Those who managed to turn them into goods or dollars, or stayed with their own. There was a poultry farm not far from me, slowly dying, She is still alive. And then she was transformed. You see, the cheaper the ruble, the more expensive the imports, and it is easier for producers to compete in the part in which production is their own. Your fisherman, in the Kuril Islands, had a boat, this boat remained with him, fish in the sea too, refrigeration and cutting equipment remained. Those enterprises that had sales abroad had currency. They were in a better position. I repeat, during the default it was impossible to have rubles. Only goods and means of production.
                      5. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 13 December 2020 21: 46
                        +2
                        during the default it was impossible to have rubles.

                        Estessno. Did they announce the default in advance? And yet - in general, is the default of 1998 for our Russia good or bad?
                      6. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 December 2020 21: 57
                        0
                        I think it's good. In addition to chicken, agriculture immediately became profitable. After all, then even potatoes were imported to Russia with eggs. Without default, it was more profitable to hand over a Soviet drill for scrap. And so she became in demand. The default was not announced in advance, but in a week it was already clear that something was wrong. The smart ones just temporarily closed themselves and at a wild pace tried to exchange rubles for dollars.
                      7. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 13 December 2020 22: 02
                        +4
                        The smart ones just temporarily closed themselves and at a wild pace tried to exchange rubles for dollars.

                        These are not smart ones who shut themselves up, they are knowledgeable ones. And so - the weeding was strong, they thinned out notably.
                      8. Jager
                        Jager 18 December 2020 12: 22
                        +1
                        As a result, without having ANY industry of our own, we now, while maintaining the level of wages and even slightly increasing them, are destitute. Our entire economy is tied to the dollar.
                2. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 13 December 2020 21: 23
                  +5
                  The default reoriented the fleet in which I worked for Russia. I never thought that blue whiting could be a money fish, herring and mackerel, this is understandable. Moodzunds were modernized in Klaipeda, productivity increased three times. Four years later they reached the level of salaries before the default, when they received a salary in dollars. Then it began to grow in rubles. We worked in Kaliningrad and Leningrad and a little to Murmansk. The fish went to Russia in tens of thousands of tons. During the voyage they froze on our steamer 9 12 thousand tons, converted many times more. The salary grew before retirement they received good money.
                3. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 13 December 2020 21: 45
                  +4
                  Happy for you. And my relative in the Kuril Islands had a joint production with South Koreans, and after the default got rid of all the competitors who worked with rubles.
                4. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 13 December 2020 22: 15
                  +3
                  Koreans and Japanese are such gourmets. The last graduation of perch is 6000 dollars a ton. The worst is 600 dollars. But there is an observer from their company on the bart, sticking his nose everywhere. But for that kind of money, you can be patient. Erminger Sea Iceland.
                5. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 13 December 2020 22: 26
                  -1
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  and after the default got rid of all competitors who worked with rubles.

                  exactly. And with the help of the "strong" ruble, Abroad gets rid of our producers in general. What makes it more profitable to buy it there, sell it here, the ruble is "strong" ... There would be no default, not only your relative's competitors would go bankrupt, and he would too.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 13 December 2020 16: 12
      +11
      Actually, that Lavrenty Pavlovich is a good organizer, we learned only recently and thanks to the works of: Kremlev and Martirosyan, and before that, what have we read? Beria personally tortures, Beria is a sexy giant and other scary
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 13 December 2020 16: 46
        +9
        Actually, that Lavrenty Pavlovich is a good organizer, we learned only recently and thanks to the works of: Kremlev and Martirosyan, and before that, what have we read? Beria personally tortures, Beria is a sexy giant and other scary

        Well, you can write about any person that he is a maniac, and that in the morning he eats one-year-old babies. Khrushch Kukuruzny did just that. And for some reason there are still no materials from the trial over Beria. And about Lawrence in nuclear cities (Arzamas-16, Chelyabinsk-70 ...) there was never a single bad word, even in the rampant of the so-called "thaw". Probably because there were no six-mens there - after all, people worked there, and did not flutter their tongues. As for him, Beria, Chertok also has abilities in his historical three-volume book about our missile program.
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 14 December 2020 12: 05
        0
        Quote: vladcub
        Actually, that Lavrenty Pavlovich is a good organizer, we learned only recently and thanks to the works of: Kremlev and Martirosyan, and before that, what have we read? Beria personally tortures, Beria is a sexy giant and other scary

        Nevertheless, Beria was denied rehabilitation.
      3. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 14 December 2020 14: 09
        +7
        Nevertheless, Beria was denied rehabilitation.

        Well, yes, there are no case materials, on the basis of what to rehabilitate? There is only Khrushchev's report that women were brought to him for dinner, whom he ate after use.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. RUSS
        RUSS 14 December 2020 14: 47
        -5
        Quote: Aviator_
        Nevertheless, Beria was denied rehabilitation.

        Well, yes, there are no case materials, on the basis of what to rehabilitate? There is only Khrushchev's report that women were brought to him for dinner, whom he ate after use.


        an extract from the minutes No. 14 of the meeting of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the CPSU dated May 7, 1956. - The trial fully confirmed the materials of the preliminary investigation. All the defendants at the trial admitted the facts of crimes imputed to them, denying only their counter-revolutionary intent. The guilt of the defendants, who committed mass terrorist massacres of innocent Soviet people and other grave crimes of the state, was proven both by documentary evidence and by the testimony of numerous witnesses, including victims of crimes, now rehabilitated. The testimony of the witnesses who exposed the criminals, the speech of the public prosecutor and the court verdict drew unanimous approval from those present in the courtroom.
        At first, Beria denied everything, but when he was presented with the facts of the executions in 1941, he admitted that this was a gross violation of Soviet laws. When he was shown materials about Mairanovsky's laboratory for testing poisons on humans, he, too, could not deny that this was a direct crime. But his answer to everything was the same: it was Stalin's instructions.
        From the memoirs of Georgy Zhukov: “After the trial, Beria was shot by those who guarded him. During the execution, Beria behaved very badly, like the very last coward, he cried hysterically, knelt down and finally got all stained. In a word, he lived disgustingly and died even more disgustingly.
      6. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 14 December 2020 15: 20
        +6
        This is an excerpt from the minutes of the meeting dated May 7, 1956, this is not the case itself. And these are the memories of G.K. Zhukov, who, to put it mildly, are very biased, and are not a court document and are written at the level of eating babies in the morning. Where is the case itself? And, if it is, then why is it still secret?
      7. RUSS
        RUSS 14 December 2020 15: 50
        +2
        Quote: Aviator_
        Where is the case itself? And, if it is, then why is it still secret?

        A question for the president, as well as the question of why Vladimir Putin extended the secrecy regime for data on the Great Patriotic War until 2040.
      8. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 14 December 2020 16: 24
        +5
        Question to the president,

        Well, not so long ago, this politician, in order to appease the Poles, even announced the execution of the Poles in Katyn as the work of the Stalinist NKVD. However, none of such confessions at any level explain the presence of German shell casings at the place of execution and paper twine, which bound the hands of the Poles.
  • zenion
    zenion 16 February 2021 19: 05
    0
    Aviator_ (Sergey). Beria was a supplier for scientists. He asked what was needed and pulled it out with his teeth or fear. If not for his assertiveness in the extraction of everything that is needed, then the bomb would not have been built so quickly.
  • qQQQ
    qQQQ 13 December 2020 13: 52
    +2
    Quote: Aviator_
    And Kindersurprise, probably, does not interfere too much with work, but he accumulated enough funds during the default.

    I don’t want to defend the current government, but in this case, do you have any claims against Rosatom, and specifically against its leadership? About the accumulated funds, I would like to know more, although the fact that Kiriyenko is not poor agrees, and who is there among the beggars?
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 13 December 2020 14: 15
      +7
      In order to voice claims against such a department, half of whose activities are classified as "OV", one must have such an admission and voice claims elsewhere. I have the same complaints about management like Kindersurprise, as about Rogozin, a journalist by education, Serdyukov, a furniture maker, and other "top managers" who, without proper education, do not even know how their department should work.
      1. qQQQ
        qQQQ 13 December 2020 20: 47
        0
        Quote: Aviator_
        without proper education, they do not even know how their department should work.

        The claims to the listed ones are clear and fair, but Rosatom is working quite efficiently, and I still don't understand what the complaint is against Kiriyenko, except for the wrong diploma.
        1. Tamer
          Tamer 14 December 2020 13: 54
          +1
          Personally, I did not understand how Kiriyenko survived, closing the breakthrough of the top-secret reactor circuit with his body)) Since it is not allowed to give a Hero of the Russian Federation (not a Hero of Labor) hi
        2. qQQQ
          qQQQ 14 December 2020 14: 29
          +1
          Quote: Tamer
          Since a Hero of the Russian Federation (not a Hero of Labor) is not supposed to be given for the "sufficiently effective" work of Rosatom

          It has already been written above that the activities of Rosatom are practically all classified, so we are unlikely to find out who was there and what closed with our body, but you did not succeed in challenging the effectiveness of Rosatom.
        3. Tamer
          Tamer 15 December 2020 10: 41
          0
          I did not dispute the effectiveness of Rosatom)) How to reasonably challenge it if this activity
          Quote: qqqq
          almost everything is classified
          .
  • astepanov
    astepanov 16 December 2020 18: 17
    0
    Quote: qqqq
    That's about Kindersurprise, you're in vain.

    What's in vain? This comrade noted that, being the head of the oil refining industry, he surrounded himself with a whole staff of psychics - "to increase the yield of light fractions." It was then that he probably got hooked on the management of science-intensive enterprises. And if you wish, you can find a couple of patents registered with Rospatent in the name of Kindersurprise. They are called the same: "Method of organizing lotteries." In general, the same berry field with Rogozin.
    As for the king, isn't it a lot of honor to groan over this citizen? So many people died in the war in which he got involved, and in the revolution and civil war, which happened, among other things, because of his incompetent management. It is for those people that one must grieve, and not for the mediocre citizen Romanov.
    Finally, he was not canonized, this is a mistake. He is a passion-bearer, i.e. victim allegedly for the faith. This is not the same as a saint.
  • Rostislav Prokopenko
    Rostislav Prokopenko 14 December 2020 12: 01
    0
    Well, Rosatom still became a size under him. Here, in aggregate, plus the closed part of the order ... There are fewer complaints here laughing
    But George, like the Order of Glory, was given for personal courage, and not for length of service.
    1. Tamer
      Tamer 14 December 2020 14: 01
      +1
      Law of the Russian Federation of March 20, 1992 N 2553-I "On the establishment of the title of Hero of the Russian Federation and the establishment of a badge of special distinction - the Gold Star medal"
      "1. To establish the title of Hero of the Russian Federation for the award for services to the state and people associated with the performance heroic deed."

      Well, what other claims can there be. It's good that at least not for the anniversary of the default laughing
  • Fat
    Fat 13 December 2020 10: 32
    +3
    Quote: Aerodrome
    as well as "Hero" ... now they also give ... strange.

    And the Brezhnev Order of Victory is not strange? All the same "for great contribution and outstanding service" wassat
    1. sibiryouk
      sibiryouk 13 December 2020 13: 35
      +3
      Brezhnev also became Marshal of the Soviet Union, and was awarded the Order of the October Revolution, although at that time there was still a child.
      1. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 13 December 2020 21: 12
        -1
        ..aha and also with the Mother Heroine Order and the Honorary Donor badge !!!
  • Squelcher
    Squelcher 18 December 2020 13: 36
    0
    And Brezhnev was given a star of the hero for his birthday, and?
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 13 December 2020 05: 47
    +3
    Quote: aybolyt678
    but was George given for the actions that led to the victory?

    Then not at all.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 13 December 2020 10: 25
    +9
    On October 13, 1915, Nicholas II and his son conducted an inspection trip of units of the Southwestern Front and conducted an inspection of the Pechersk Infantry Regiment near the village of Plotycha. It was about seven miles from the place of the review to the front line. A few days before the review, the regiment's location was fired upon by long-range German artillery.
    The command of the Southwestern Front promptly "reacted" to the "feat" of Nicholas II, who found himself in the zone of "effective" fire of the Austrian artillery, at a distance of 6-7 versts from their positions. As a result of the petition of Adjutant General N.I. Ivanov On October 17, 1915, Tsarevich Alexei received the St. George medal of the IV degree "In memory of the visit to the armies of the South-Western Front near combat positions."
    In turn, the Georgievsk Duma of the Southwestern Front unanimously acknowledged that "the presence of the Sovereign Emperor at the forefront inspired the troops to new heroic deeds and gave them great fortitude, that by expressing a desire to visit a military unit located on the battle line and carrying it out, His Imperial Majesty showed an example of true military valor and selflessness, that while staying in places repeatedly fired by enemy artillery, the Sovereign Emperor clearly endangered his precious life and neglected the danger, in a magnanimous desire to express personally to the troops his royal gratitude, greetings and wishes for further military glory. "
    On October 25, 1915, at the request of the St. George Duma, Nicholas II entrusted himself with the Order of St. George, 4th degree.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 13 December 2020 11: 13
      +2
      But it was still Soldier George, not to award the Officer's mind was still enough.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 13 December 2020 11: 21
        +3
        Quote: Sea Cat
        But it was still Soldier George, not to award the Officer's mind was still enough.

        There, according to the statute, no one is allowed ... although all thoughts are the same.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 13 December 2020 12: 23
        +8
        But it was still Soldier George
        You're wrong.
      3. Errr
        Errr 13 December 2020 18: 12
        +2
        Quote: Sea Cat
        But it was still Soldier George, not to award the Officer's mind was still enough.
        Alas and ah!
        Quote: Undecim
        On October 25, 1915, at the request of the Georgievsk Duma, Nicholas II entrusted Order of St. George, 4th degree.
        It was not the 4th degree of St. George's Cross, but the 4th degree Order of St. George.
  • unknown
    unknown 13 December 2020 05: 31
    -47%
    When they buried "the so-called Lenin" ("so-called" because the researchers identify at least four people in the photo and film materials who played this role), the winter was very cold. Damaged the sewer. In the spring, it all thawed out, and flooded what was buried. The patriarch said to this: "According to the saint, and oil."
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 13 December 2020 05: 35
      +29
      Quote: ignoto
      The patriarch said to this: "According to the saint, and oil."

      He who said, is not worth oil ... what has he done for the people? for the country? Did you eat your belly?
      1. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 13 December 2020 21: 14
        +5
        shot the N-th number of crows, cats and dogs .. which certainly improved the sanitary epidemiology of the Russian Empire .. to some extent the forerunner of Sharikov !!!
    2. Captain45
      Captain45 13 December 2020 11: 13
      +8
      Quote: ignoto
      When they buried "the so-called Lenin" ("so-called" because the researchers identify at least four people in the photo and film materials who played this role), the winter was very cold. Damaged the sewer. In the spring, it all thawed out, and flooded what was buried. The patriarch said to this: "According to the saint, and oil."

      And why is this statement, what is the relation to the topic of the article recourse request
    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 13 December 2020 16: 34
      +4
      "researchers identify four" please name these "researchers". Perhaps this is Solzhenitsyn?
      It can be argued with equal success that Nicholas 2 had twins
    4. Titus_2
      Titus_2 19 December 2020 06: 07
      0
      By the relics ...
  • Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 13 December 2020 05: 35
    -2
    Quote: Aerodrome
    was on the southwestern front in 15, a few kilometers from the front-line, the whole "feat" to the penny.
    Yes, that's understandable. At the same time, no one said that he personally was the initiator of this award.
    On October 21, 1915, the Georgievsk Duma of the Southwestern Front unanimously decided to award the emperor an order in connection with the visit by him and the heir to the armies of the front on October 12 and 13 (the decision was made on the day the emperor ascended the throne). The rationale for the decision was as follows:
    ... The Georgievsk Duma saw that the presence of the Sovereign Emperor at the forefront inspired the troops to new heroic deeds and gave them great fortitude, that by expressing a desire to visit a military unit located on the battle line, and carrying it out, His Imperial Majesty set an example true military valor and selflessness, that, being in places repeatedly fired by enemy artillery, the Sovereign Emperor clearly endangered his precious life and neglected the danger, in a generous desire to express personally to the troops his royal gratitude, greetings and wishes for further military glory. On the basis of the foregoing, the Georgievsk Duma of the Southwestern Front unanimously decides: to throw, through the oldest Knight of St. George, Adjutant General Ivanov, to the feet of the Sovereign Emperor, an all-subject request: to show the troops adoring the Sovereign Leader great mercy and joy, deigning to entrust the Fourth-Bearer of the Order of Victory to himself the Order of Victory. degree, on the basis of Art. 7th.
    In our post-revolutionary history, we remember more infamous awards. One L.I. Brezhnev, what was it worth.
    But his "holiness" is already nonsense of today. But, we have a church, as it were, separated from the state.
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 13 December 2020 09: 09
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir61
      But his "holiness" is already nonsense of today. But, we have a church, as it were, separated from the state.

      I believe that Stalin was the most effective successor to the cause of Jesus Christ. Man is friend to man, comrade and brother ... Isn't that what Jesus bequeathed? The Church, like the Communist Party, is carried away by rituals and dogmas, speculate on the fear of death and open new branches of their business
    2. sanja.grw
      sanja.grw 13 December 2020 09: 35
      +20
      One L.I. Brezhnev, what was it worth.

      Well L.I. Brezhnev, even though he fought, it was then that he was awarded licking on anniversaries
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 13 December 2020 14: 01
        -25%
        Strictly speaking, Brezhnev is a conditional front-line soldier. Read Drabkin, about political commissars, and the front-line soldiers knew the truth better
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 14 December 2020 11: 51
          +3
          Quote: vladcub
          Strictly speaking, Brezhnev is a conditional front-line soldier. Read Drabkin, about political commissars, and the front-line soldiers knew the truth better

          Zampo zampo strife. Pomnitsa, on Malaya Zemlya dear Leonid Ilyich got right up to the machine gun positions (on one of them he physical impact motivated the calculation of the machine gun to resume fire on the advancing Germans). smile
    3. qQQQ
      qQQQ 13 December 2020 09: 58
      -4
      Quote: Vladimir61
      But his "holiness" is already nonsense of today.

      The question is that when the issue of uniting our LC and the Foreign LC was discussed, one of the main requirements of the ZOC was the recognition of Nicholas 2 as saints. And here the question is, what is more valuable for unity and holiness or a principle? In general, here all the same the initiative did not come from our HRC.
    4. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 13 December 2020 13: 25
      +13
      In our post-revolutionary history, we remember more infamous awards. One L.I. Brezhnev, what was it worth.

      Brezhnev fought for more than six months on Malaya Zemlya, which was a solid front line. And he could well claim one Gold Star. The rest - I agree, too much.
    5. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 13 December 2020 14: 40
      +35
      Vladimir61 (Vladimir)
      In our post-revolutionary history, we remember more infamous awards. One L.I. Brezhnev, what was it worth.
      What do you say? Brezhnev, in contrast to the "holy martyr," actually fought! And he has done immeasurably more useful things for the country, it is not for nothing that now his "stagnation" is remembered with nostalgia. The most golden time for the people was in our entire history.
      With the Order of Victory and the stars of the Hero of the USSR, this is certainly too much, but in all other respects the worthless nikolashka did not lie next to Leonid Ilyich!
  • Egor53
    Egor53 13 December 2020 11: 38
    +3
    Nikolai Alexandrovich was ranked among the saints at the request of the Russian Church Abroad. This requirement was put forward as mandatory for unification with the Church of the Moscow Patriarchate.
    The Moscow Patriarchate decided that this was an acceptable price to pay for the unification of churches.
    Whether it was the right decision or not, the Lord is the judge.
    For me personally, an Orthodox and a believer, to see the "icons" of such a "saint" is insulting.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 13 December 2020 13: 54
    -6
    And the Order of Victory at the Romanian King Mihai? And what about Brezhnev?
  • Bessik
    Bessik 18 December 2020 12: 45
    0
    Well, yes, Leonid with his begging
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 13 December 2020 09: 16
    +24
    Why were you ranked among the saints?
    This is just an anti-Soviet gesture ..
    Paul 1 was also killed, besides, he was the acting king, but no one remembers, they declared a fool, and this is not a pity.
    For example, Alexander 2, who suffered from the bomb of the People's Will, did not die immediately and suffered for a long time, but he is not worthy of being a passion-bearer, for not from the communists.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 13 December 2020 16: 39
      +6
      Quote: Gardamir
      Why were you ranked among the saints?
      This is just an anti-Soviet gesture ..
      Paul 1 was also killed, besides, he was the acting king, but no one remembers, they declared a fool, and this is not a pity.
      For example, Alexander 2, who suffered from the bomb of the People's Will, did not die immediately and suffered for a long time, but he is not worthy of being a passion-bearer, for not from the communists.

      hi aha! I just saw your comment, and recently I wrote on the same topic below. Want to add. Paul I was the Grand Master of the Order of Malta. For his sake, they even changed the charter of the order. . Now there is a possibility of legal marriage, provided that the wife becomes a Cavalier lady. Would go for it for a jerk. Eidelmann supposes that the murder was a consequence of his communication with Napoleon I and plans for the division of the World between the two Emperors. Their first plans were about India and the island of Malta. The Angles, of course, did not want to allow this. RUSSIA has always been an obstacle for them.
  • qQQQ
    qQQQ 13 December 2020 09: 50
    +9
    Quote: aybolyt678
    But how many millions of Russian soldiers died and families suffered?

    Moreover, it was the fault of Nicholas 2.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 13 December 2020 10: 29
    +1
    Regarding the assignment to the canon of saints, or how correctly, I do not know, to the Most Holy Council.
    Contact your dean to tell them how they are counted.
    Our father (enjoys authority among the old people) said that they have a very complex system of canonization
  • sibiryouk
    sibiryouk 13 December 2020 13: 32
    0
    Nicholas was offered several times to be awarded the Order of St. George (General Alekseev proposed in 1915 for an offensive operation on the North-Western Front, etc.), but the tsar categorically refused. The cross that in the photo was given to him by the Duma of the Georgievsky Cavaliers.
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 13 December 2020 14: 51
    +4
    of course sorry for the children

    Exactly. Only them, perhaps, and sorry - fell under the "distribution" in full.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 18 December 2020 09: 53
    0
    Quote: aybolyt678
    George Cross in the photo, for what did you get it? the first question and the second question: - why were you ranked among the saints? what did the saint do for Vera? Passion-bearers, the term was invented ... of course I feel sorry for the children. But how many millions of Russian soldiers died and families suffered?

    For leadership of the operation as part of the front, like Leonid Ilyich, and others
  • zenion
    zenion 18 December 2020 18: 59
    0
    aybolyt678. Who needed a former emperor without Russia ?! He dragged misfortune with him to all the places where he got.
  • Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 13 December 2020 05: 04
    +7
    5 tons of "personal" gold of the emperor, who also did not know where to go in England.
    a good motive to "dig in" the owner with the heirs (family), history shows that the Anglo-Saxons are not capable of such things when it comes to gold.
  • Nazar
    Nazar 13 December 2020 05: 12
    +13
    What are the "chances" to survive - you know, the crown is almost always removed with the head.
    This leader ruined the country, eventually betrayed "his" people, and renunciation during the war is a direct betrayal and as a result he was made a saint for all his "merits"? Does the Russian Orthodox Church encourage betrayal in this way? It seems like betraying is "sacred" - so what?
    1. unknown
      unknown 13 December 2020 05: 43
      -37%
      The crown is not removed with the head. The murder of a representative of the royal family is a very serious crime. The stories about the murder of the English and French kings are fairy tales.
      The real history can only be traced back to the so-called "nineteenth century".
      Everything that, according to the historian, happened before is fiction, the section of unscientific fiction.
      Besides, the execution of the king, no matter which one, is a rehash of one story. I witnessed a very funny episode when an excellent student on the exam very easily and naturally confused the events of two “revolutions, the so-called“ English ”and the so-called“ French. ”And she did it in one sentence, stating that the sessions of the English parliament were held in the hall for playing ball.
      Nicholas II, or rather, his prototype - George the Fifth, together with his family, were evacuated from the Crimea, on the English battleship "Marlborough" 11.04.1919/XNUMX/XNUMX.
      George the Fifth continued to rule Great Britain, his daughters also settled well.
      1. Nazar
        Nazar 13 December 2020 06: 23
        +25
        ignoto - Countryman or what? - Such a backyard grass grows only near Kyakhta. wassat
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 13 December 2020 07: 29
          +15
          Quote: Nazar
          ignoto - Countryman or what? - Such a backyard grass grows only near Kyakhta. wassat

          No, it seems, from birth, this: either he synthesizes something in the body, or he dropped his head sometime. This is not the first time this has been issued. Not every day he sits under a stump ...
      2. nickname7
        nickname7 13 December 2020 07: 49
        +3
        For half a year, sitting in Tsarskoye Selo, Nikolai could use the residual influence, as well as money, easily equip one of his yachts and sail with his family to the states as a private person. Moreover, the "procedure" of renunciation was carried out carelessly,
        Nicholas had to write off assets in favor of the state, which was not done. He had plenty of opportunities, he had to take the initiative.
        The tsar could become a simple rich man in a country where capitalists are respected, he would invest in capital, he would live happily ever after.
        By the way, English Edward VIII, 1936 abdicated and went to the states. He wanted to marry an American woman, which was unacceptable, since she is a commoner and a resident of the former colony, he was shown either the crown or his wife, Edward chose the latter and lived luxury in the best hotels.
      3. nickname7
        nickname7 13 December 2020 08: 41
        +8
        ... .Killing a member of the royal family is a very serious crime


        Do you understand the meaning of the phrase - "Mutiny cannot end in luck. Otherwise, his name is different."
        ... Stories about the murder of the English and French kings - fairy tales

        And where did Marie Antoinette go if her head was not cut off? Or did it not exist?
        And the subsequent events were documented and recorded in literature and memoirs independently on all continents, are they fairy tales?
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 13 December 2020 09: 12
          +9
          Quote: nickname7
          And the subsequent events were documented and recorded in literature and memoirs independently on all continents, are they fairy tales?

          And they chopped Louis' heads off to Louis ... laughing
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 13 December 2020 07: 02
      +12
      ... ROC what ....
      Yes, I always had this question, could the anointed of God, as it was believed, deny for himself and his son? How does it compare? "I'm not your father anymore!"
      When the Provisional Government came to power, the hierarchs of the church sent congratulations and blessings, expressed their joy. What is in the Archives and research.
      1. Nazar
        Nazar 13 December 2020 07: 27
        +12
        Reptiloid (Dmitry) - Colleague, the same "hierarchs" of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Nazis in Pskov met with a procession. The predecessor of the current patriarch, Rediger (Alexy II), a hereditary clergyman, in his youth helped to send services to his father ... and that daddy was during the war the main confessor of the Estonian fascists, punishers.
        These people have their own "value series", which does not at all coincide with our values, apparently in that series there is just a place for such a "saint".
        It's not for me to judge, but in my opinion it is unacceptable to unite in the host of saints, for example, Alexander Nevsky, or Sergius of Radonezh, and this ... body. sad
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 13 December 2020 08: 39
          +7
          Greetings Nazar hi , Mikhail Anatolyevich Babkin did a lot of research work in the Archives and wrote books and articles. They are on the net, but now it's inconvenient for me to watch everything, I often used to quote quotes from congratulations. What a joy at the abdication of the tsar, that is, the Anointed of God and under the leadership of the Provisional Government. As they now write --- all the members of which were Masons.
        2. igordok
          igordok 13 December 2020 10: 48
          +2
          Quote: Nazar
          Colleague, the same "hierarchs" of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Nazis in Pskov met with a procession.

          You can get more details. Somehow I have not heard about this.
          During the occupation, the "Pskov Orthodox Mission" got carried away - yes.
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 13 December 2020 13: 19
            +5
            igordok - That's right, Colleague, I wrote about this - the Pskov Orthodox Mission consisted of the priests of the Russian Orthodox Church who acted under the wing of the occupiers, there were prayers for the victory of the Nazis and the processions of God - there was a full set. There is even a photo on Wiki.
            1. igordok
              igordok 13 December 2020 14: 13
              +2
              I agree with you. I am your words "Pskov met with the procession"I perceived it as an event on July 9, 1941, during the capture of Pskov by the Germans.
        3. Sergey M. Karasev
          Sergey M. Karasev 13 December 2020 13: 32
          +1
          The predecessor of the current patriarch, Rediger (Alexy II), a hereditary clergyman, in his youth helped to send services to his father ... and that daddy was during the war the main confessor of the Estonian fascists, punishers.

          Were Estonian fascists and punishers Orthodox? Surely not Lutherans? Or was his father a Lutheran?
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 13 December 2020 15: 36
            +3
            Sergei Mikhailovich Karasev (Sergei) - Colleague, there were two Orthodox churches in Estonia at once, as now in Ukraine - the Moscow Patriarchate and the Constantinople - they were united before the war, during the occupation they again dispersed, when the Nazis were overtaken - they were again united with the ROC. So there are quite a few Orthodox Christians among the Estonians, at least there were quite a few during the war.
        4. bober1982
          bober1982 13 December 2020 15: 00
          -4
          Quote: Nazar
          The predecessor of the current patriarch - Rediger (Alexy 2nd)

          Quote: Nazar
          and that daddy was during the war the main confessor of the Estonian fascists, punishers.

          Not, Rediger, but Ridiger, it is still ugly to distort the surname.
          About dad, the main confessor of the Estonian fascists, it's some of your fantasies, where they picked up, it's not clear.
          Archpriest Mikhail Alexandrovich Ridiger, the father of the future Patriarch, after the war was the rector of the church and secretary of the diocesan administration of the Tallinn diocese.
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 13 December 2020 15: 39
            +3
            bober1982 (vladimir) - about the distortion of the surname - my fault, I was in a hurry, copied part of the text and did not check the spelling of the surname.
            The key word is "after the war" - and during the war?
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 13 December 2020 16: 46
              0
              Quote: Nazar
              The key word is "after the war" - and during the war?

              Quote: Nazar
              The key word is "after the war" - and during the war?

              After the war, all Nazi accomplices were justly sent to the camps (the key word), and not appointed secretaries to the diocesan administration.
              1. Nazar
                Nazar 13 December 2020 18: 03
                -1
                bober1982 - priests who even collaborated with the Nazis might not have been punished - after 1943. The Russian Orthodox Church tried not to infringe especially, and in 1944. Immediately after the liberation of Estonia, the parishes of the EAOC were returned to the ROC and Ridiger turned out to be a minister of a different church.
                That's interesting. You see the text, you read ... but you don’t understand the meaning of what is written, or are you pretending? Again -
                Ridiger the elder was promoted to presbyter by Metropolitan of the EAOC Alexander - a protege of the Nazis, and the whole EAOC, this is a structure created by the Nazis. At the same time, the structure of the Russian Orthodox Church was operating in Estonia, the Germans did not forbid it, Ridiger had a choice - and he made it. Well, his work in concentration camps - is there something that needs to be explained? How do you imagine it - philanthropic Estonian Nazis, in order to alleviate the suffering of the prisoners, invited a good priest from the side and launched him by a thorn?
                If you want to believe it is your right, I will not bother you. hi
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 13 December 2020 18: 12
                  0
                  And, my respect for you.
          2. Nazar
            Nazar 13 December 2020 15: 52
            +2
            bober1982 - A colleague even in Wiki writes the following: "In 1942 he was ordained a presbyter in the Kazan Church of Tallinn by Metropolitan Alexander (Paulus), the first hierarch of the EAOC.
            During World War II, he nursed prisoners in camps in Estonia. "
            The EAOC - the "autocephalous" church near Constantinople - separated from the ROC with the arrival of the Nazis. When the fascists were overtaken, the EAOC again entered the ROC, and Metropolitan Alexander, the Nazi protege, left with them.
            Ridiger "served" in concentration camps, where the secret police consisted mainly of Estonian fascists, so they were "nourished" by the father of the future patriarch.
      2. Reviews
        Reviews 13 December 2020 07: 32
        0
        Quote: Reptiloid
        could the anointed of God, as it was believed, deny for himself and his son? How does it compare? "I'm not your father anymore!"

        From an everyday point of view - a minor child, while the father makes decisions for him. Is not it? And Lyoshyk didn’t come to the "anointed one" at all.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 13 December 2020 08: 44
          +7
          And yourself? Could it? Is it correct??? Doesn't this look like a parent who has given up parental rights voluntarily ?
          1. Reviews
            Reviews 13 December 2020 16: 43
            +1
            Quote: Reptiloid
            And yourself? Could it?

            And what could stop him? Well, if we forget about the infantile chatter of monarchists about the "anointed of God." In the end, that's what the absolute monarchy is for - "whatever I want, I turn it over." However, even in the constitutional process: in the 1930s, the British king abdicated the throne. Moreover, on a more ridiculous occasion.
            Is it correct???

            Right. Legally - has the right. And morally - in general must... He brought the country to the handle.
            Doesn't this look like a parent who has given up parental rights voluntarily ?

            I don't see why it should be like that.
      3. nickname7
        nickname7 13 December 2020 08: 56
        +2
        ... could the anointed of God, as it was believed, deny for himself and his son?

        Easy, do not forget that the tsar is the sovereign, has the power, using which Nicholas abdicated. But his son or brother could not give a damn about the order, since the subject of power is no longer after the abdication and declare himself king, and promise lands and titles to sworn nobles, this is a common practice under feudalism.
        The anointing itself cannot be smeared on the bread; it is a ritual, the main thing is the rule of law.
        Church opportunists, they serve any authority.
        1. Grim Reaper
          Grim Reaper 13 December 2020 17: 11
          0
          Quote: nickname7
          ... could the anointed of God, as it was believed, deny for himself and his son?


          Church opportunists, they serve any authority.

          Just don't forget the Dominicans and Torquemada. All the same, the influence of the church on power in Russia and in Europe, in times it differs slightly.
    3. apro
      apro 13 December 2020 08: 21
      0
      Quote: Nazar
      Does the Russian Orthodox Church encourage betrayal in this way?

      In Russia, people are used to changing their heads ... but not the system.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 13 December 2020 05: 38
    +10
    Playing as a defender of faith and the fatherland, a protracted war to a victorious end, impoverishment of the people, lack of reforms.
    Something familiar...
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 13 December 2020 06: 11
      +3
      The people love the current anointed one as well as Nicholas, but they will present this with their friends.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 13 December 2020 07: 08
      +7
      It's amazing how absolutely everyone he managed to turn against himself. After all, no one rose to his defense, neither from relatives, nor from his inner circle, nor from convictions. And he trusted General Alekseev and believed that he would not advise bad things.
  • Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 13 December 2020 05: 50
    +3
    There is a version of Nikolai Starikov, similar to the truth, that the execution of the royal family was initiated by the British, since the legal and only contender for the Russian throne was Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov. After killing him and his sisters and their parents, a power vacuum formed in Russia. In addition, the shooting of the royal family suspiciously coincided with the SR revolt in Petrograd. The Social Revolutionaries were supposed to remove the Bolsheviks from power and turn Russia into a colony of England, the USA and France.
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 05: 59
      +6
      The legitimate (under the law of succession to the throne) applicants after Alexei was Mikhail, and after him - the whole bunch of Romanovs. After the death of Nicholas II and his family, a power vacuum could not form in principle. If formally.
    2. Obliterator
      Obliterator 13 December 2020 12: 58
      -8
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      There is a version of Nikolai Starikov, similar to the truth, that the execution of the royal family was initiated by the British, since the legal and only contender for the Russian throne was Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov. After killing him and his sisters and their parents, a power vacuum formed in Russia. In addition, the shooting of the royal family suspiciously coincided with the SR revolt in Petrograd. The Social Revolutionaries were supposed to remove the Bolsheviks from power and turn Russia into a colony of England, the USA and France.

      Nothing more than conspiracy theories. The Bolsheviks do not care about the opinion of the British, they themselves really wanted to kill him. Yes, they had no other choice in that situation.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 13 December 2020 06: 22
    +14
    It's a pity for the children, Nikolai himself is not. As a person, maybe not bad, but as a king - absolutely worthless. To me, too, "Master of the Russian Land" ...
    "Surrendered the great empire as command of a squadron." (from)
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 December 2020 06: 58
      +7
      I fully support!
      On my own I will add.
      The "arrest of the royal family" carried out by General Kornilov on March 20 was by and large a pure fiction and served, according to the general himself, primarily to protect the former crowned persons from the soldiers of the Tsarskoye Selo garrison who had lost fear.

      Both "arrest" audiences with Kornilov were held with citizen Romanova! And which of the Emperor's couple is then a man and a master?
  • andrewkor
    andrewkor 13 December 2020 07: 07
    -3
    Dear author was interested in alternative options for the life of the royal family. Personally, I liked the version in the novel "USSR Corporation" The Bolsheviks left citizen Romanov and his family alive, turned the operation to evacuate them to Britain, where they became outcasts!
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 13 December 2020 07: 50
    -3
    I don't understand the dubious alternative execution stories. Before being canonized, the Russian Orthodox Church demanded confirmation of the found remains. DNA and other studies have confirmed the identity of the Romanov family. Isn't that true?
    1. Fat
      Fat 13 December 2020 11: 35
      +1
      Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko
      I don't understand the dubious alternative execution stories. Before being canonized, the Russian Orthodox Church demanded confirmation of the found remains. DNA and other studies have confirmed the identity of the Romanov family. Isn't that true?

      And who knows something? The main DNA tests in Britain were carried out in the Pentagon laboratory request
      1. Konstantin Shevchenko
        Konstantin Shevchenko 13 December 2020 14: 48
        +3
        In the DNA was determined hemophilia disease in Alekseevich. Poyus examined the teeth for dental intervention. The alternatives must first refute something here.
        1. Fat
          Fat 13 December 2020 16: 44
          +3
          The last examination of the Yekaterinburg remains was carried out in 2007 by Professor Rogachev. It seems that that's all. Bastrykin reported - no doubt about it. However, on July 14, 2018, at a special meeting, the Holy Synod did not make a decision on recognizing the Yekaterinburg remains as tsarist ... Who is the alternative? Nothing is clear.
  • svp67
    svp67 13 December 2020 07: 57
    +5
    Nicholas II and his family members and close relatives had NO chance to survive in revolutionary Russia in that REALITY. The Bolsheviks seized power and did not tolerate any competitors. As for their armed opponents, they did not spare their allies, with whom there were even slightest ideological differences, and with their own, who showed instability in any issues, they dealt with them in the same way.
    But the author is not quite right, attempts to release citizen Romanov from arrest were already made, since there were still monarchist-minded people in Russia who organized themselves into some kind of close-knit groups, but here the main "illness" of that so-called "elite of society" ", which was very bold and decisive in words, but was waiting for action from someone else, in this case, the overwhelming majority of these people expected help in this matter from the Germans. What illusions these people lived, we probably will never know
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 13 December 2020 09: 20
      +2
      I will try to read about such attempts at liberation.
      It is known that in the 70s of the last century, interest in these events of the past began to increase. Therefore, in 1977, the dismantling of the old brick house began. However, a series of explosions were required. Then Yeltsin was in the party leadership of Orenburg. It should be added that the ZRPC just in the 70s canonized Nicholas II. And already in this century, the ROC merged with the ZRPC. Here and "holiness" ".
      1. qQQQ
        qQQQ 13 December 2020 10: 05
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        And already in this century, the ROC merged with the ZRPC. Here and "holiness" ".

        I also read that holiness is the price of the unification of the ROC and the ZRPC.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 13 December 2020 10: 44
          0
          It seems to me that not only this, alas No.
      2. bober1982
        bober1982 13 December 2020 18: 25
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        Therefore, in 1977, the dismantling of the old brick house began. However, a series of explosions were required. Then Yeltsin was in the party leadership of Orenburg.

        Dima, what are you composing?
        Ipatiev's house was destroyed by a secret decision of the Politburo, Yeltsin was the First Secretary of the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee, and you sent him somewhere to Orenburg.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 13 December 2020 18: 41
          -1
          what hi wink hello Vladimir! Yes, you were probably quite an adult then, but I am a preschooler, and Google is an enemy agent.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 13 December 2020 18: 46
            +1
            By the way, a very interesting question is how and on whose initiative the question of the destruction of the Ipatiev house was raised at the Politburo
            There were those who opposed it, and this is among the top Soviet leadership.
      3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 December 2020 18: 48
        +4
        Quote: Reptiloid
        I will try to read about such attempts at liberation.
        It is known that in the 70s of the last century, interest in these events of the past began to increase. Therefore, in 1977, the dismantling of the old brick house began. However, a series of explosions were required. Then Yeltsin was in the party leadership of Orenburg. It should be added that the ZRPC just in the 70s canonized Nicholas II. And already in this century, the ROC merged with the ZRPC. Here and "holiness" ".

        There are almost a thousand kilometers between Yekaterinburg and Orenburg!
        By the way, Yekaterinburg was called Sverdlovsk in those years! Here is the executive committee of the Sverdlovsk region and headed by Yeltsin.
        The building where the family of the last emperor was shot was named “House of Engineer Ipatiev”. Today the Church of the Savior on Spilled Blood has been erected in that place. By the way, part of the basements of the Ipatev house has been preserved and is fashionable to see when visiting the temple. Near the place where the remains of the royal family were found, the monastery "Ganina Yama" appeared. Interesting to visit. But no less interesting is the rock over the place - the monastery burned at least five times, three of them seriously !!!
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 13 December 2020 18: 59
          +3
          Think about it ---- why did the monastery burn? No one will understand for anything. Yes, anything can happen.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 December 2020 19: 07
            +2
            If officially. In the first cases, loss of skills to use stove heating, the latter due to electrical wiring.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 13 December 2020 19: 18
              +1
              It's very strange all the same. All the more stove. Until I was 6 years old I lived with stove heating in a wooden house and in a beam. ...... Only drinkers had fires. And the indigenous people. And visitors from cities, oddly enough, have not lost these skills.
  • apro
    apro 13 December 2020 08: 12
    +10
    Reading the comments on the article ... such a feeling that Mr. Polonskaya is crying somewhere ...
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 13 December 2020 09: 10
      0
      This is a false feeling, Mrs. Poklonskaya publicly repented of her monarchical feelings.
      1. apro
        apro 13 December 2020 09: 14
        +6
        Quote: bober1982
        This is a false feeling, Mrs. Poklonskaya publicly repented of her monarchical feelings.

        And how she suffered ...
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 13 December 2020 18: 53
        +2
        [quote = bober1982] This is a false feeling, Mrs. Poklonskaya publicly repented of her monarchical feelings. [/ quotе]
        What are you talking about, Vladimir! A-ha-ha-ha-ha !!! I will try to search about it. But how could she ... She was also against "Matilda" "was. I thought it was her love ♡♡♡ before coffin!
        The minus is not mine.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 13 December 2020 18: 59
          0
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Ah ha ha ha ha !!!

          Yes, Dima, really - ha ha ha ...
          You have lagged behind life.
          Natalya Vladimirovna, currently advertises - "Comics. Save Tsarevich Alexei", ​​that's the name of the book, some hustlers have composed.
          Hahaha.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 13 December 2020 19: 20
            -1
            I'm glad that you are laughing wink lol lol ,
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 13 December 2020 11: 35
      +11
      Quote: apro
      Reading the comments on the article ... such a feeling that Mr. Polonskaya is crying somewhere ...

      she streams myrrh! laughing
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 13 December 2020 12: 00
        0
        she is streaming myrrh

        Then they wrote that the icon was specially delivered from somewhere for this occasion. It was also as if marriage with Dmitry Romanov was possible. recourse negative
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 13 December 2020 12: 03
          +8
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Then they wrote that the icon was specially delivered from somewhere for this occasion. It was also as if marriage with Dmitry Romanov was possible.

          Colleague, please specify, please, who is married to whom.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 13 December 2020 12: 35
            +4
            Then there were talks about marriage with an heir. This is the year 2015, approximately. Was online. Now I was looking for --- I did not find it! Then there was just a fuss. Maria Hohenzollern, a descendant of Kirill Vladimirovich Romanov, just gave the icon to our people, where her father is above all in German uniform. Ours accepted, all the higher officials were present
            Kirill Vladimirovich Romanov is the grandson of Alexander II, cousin of Nicholas II.
            Nicholas II forbade him to marry a cousin. because of the Orthodox canons. Cyril disobeyed. For which all Kirillovichs were deprived of the right to inherit the Russian throne, as the Decree is about. ...
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 13 December 2020 08: 13
    +4
    The All-Russian autocrat, Nicholas II Romanov, abdicated the throne himself, de jure, voluntarily and being in his right mind and firm memory. In any case, no "revolutionary sailors" and similar menacing characters with Mauser or Nagans behind him loomed.
    The author is not aware of the fact that conspirators-generals loomed behind the king's back, one of whom actually arrested him.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 December 2020 18: 52
      +1
      The role of Kornilov is interesting and incomprehensible, perhaps mysterious and futuristic at the same time. Believing his words during the "Bolokhov sitting" is rash.
      Although the royal couple trusted him.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 13 December 2020 20: 07
        0
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        The role of Kornilov is interesting and incomprehensible

        I'm not talking about Kornilov, but about N.V. Ruzsky.
        On October 18, 1918, this hero was killed by the Bolsheviks, so he received his reward for betrayal (and there is no other name for the conspiratorial generals).
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 December 2020 20: 24
          +2
          Kornilov also died mythically. From a grenade in a hut in which there were a lot of people, but only he died.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 13 December 2020 21: 26
            +1
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            From a grenade in a hut in which there were a lot of people, but only he died.

            Or maybe "snuff boxes".
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 13 December 2020 08: 23
    -22%
    The article is full, alas, of gossip and rumors, minus her.

    (let's call things by their proper names - after the abdication of Nicholas II, it became not entirely correct to call it imperial),

    The current The Empress Maria Fedorovna Romanova, Nikolai's mother, lived a long life and after Thief. Like his own sisters, the Grand Duchesses Xenia and Olga, as well as everything huge imperial family Romanovs.
    that there is no absolute, one hundred percent and 100% confirmed certainty that its members were killed in the basement of the Ipatiev House.


    Note the conclusion of the Government Commission based on genetic testing: "The remains found in Yekaterinburg are the remains of Nicholas II, members of his family and close people."... She also found that the children of the Emperor were chopped to pieces by the beasts with acid and fire. ...

    And yes: the so-called "nar.vlast" is cowardly for a long time lied and DENIED her murder of the children and Alexandra, and only when she was pinned against the wall by investigators Sokolova admitted.

    in favor of the Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich. He again, of his own free will, and not in the torture basements, transferred all power to the Provisional Government.

    Only BEFORE the Constituent Assembly conveyed, no lie
    So it was Emperor Michael, a front-line soldier and order bearer, who was executed by non-humans.
    First of all, Nicholas has neither the will, nor the character, nor the ability to make really important decisions. frank, never was born.

    The emperor gave Russia the first Constitution and freedom, stopped the most terrible invasion of foreigners in the history of Russia and ensured victory over them, which was recognized in Versailles in 1919.
    ... It was Nikolai who organized the world's FIRST Assemblies of Nations of the World in 1899, 1907, whose decisions are almost word for word in the UN Charter and in all the main provisions of international law on the crime of war, humanism, weapons of mass destruction, etc.

    Nikolay's Russia this is the country of FREEDOM- elections, parties, words, thoughts, processions, movement, work, entrepreneurship and initiative, the standards of which the subsequent regime did not reach never.
    And to eat and dress, as in 1913 our people were lucky enough after 40 years of endless struggle for "harvests"
    among the huge number of Russian officers, and just no nobles were not found

    Not true: not the main, but a significant part of the White movement are monarchists, for example, the famous General Drozdovsky and his entourage, etc., etc.

    And he could become a banner, against the background of the ever more revealing true inhuman so-called. "faces" of his killers: V.O. Shpakovsky quoted a letter from peasants to a newspaper in the mid-20s: "When will the Tsar be returned ?!"
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 13 December 2020 09: 44
      +8
      On the pages of VO there was once an article, which cited the conversations of the pre-revolutionary peasants that "the tsar is not real." One positive development took place during the reign of Nicholas II. This is the only population census in RI. From it it became known that the average life expectancy is 30 years, with small pluses and minuses for men and women. In European countries it was higher.
      In the painting by Repin "" The ceremonial meeting of the State Council on May 7, 1901 ... "" you can see quite old elders, also the mother of the tsar lived> 80 years! If the average age is 30, how many others lived! Here it is, the division on the basis of property. Only under the Bolsheviks did life expectancy gradually begin to increase.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 13 December 2020 10: 41
        -28%
        Quote: Reptiloid
        Only under the Bolsheviks did life expectancy gradually begin to increase.

        Lying. Grew up to a thief. After the thief-failure. In the 1920s and 1930s, male life expectancy was 1900-1913 level (in 1940, the peak for men was about 35 years old, at the level of 1913.

        And yes, in 1933 in PEACE, life expectancy and infant mortality are higher than in Russia during the years of the WORLD WAR.

        Do not forget that the data after Russia is deliberately false and embellished
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 13 December 2020 11: 03
          +6
          ..... data after Russia ...
          so you did not bring them. Not mentioned request
          We have already discussed this topic. Well, that's not the statistics of the USSR, with which you never agree, but modern Wikipedia reports that in 1926-1927 life expectancy reached 42 years. But after all passed RYAV, WW1, Civil, Intervention
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 13 December 2020 11: 41
            -20%
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Well, that's not the statistics of the USSR, with which you never agree, but modern Wikipedia reports,

            She has no other statistical data, except for the Soviet one.



            Open "Desoscope" on this topic, there is a complete a, a pit for those years.
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Civil, Intervention

            There was no need to arrange them - before the thief they were not even in sight.
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 13 December 2020 14: 15
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              There was no need to arrange them - before the thief they were not even in sight.
              The Chinese then overthrew the monarchy (Sun Yatsen, remember?), But there was no socialist revolution (there was a February revolution, and there was no October revolution, if it was with our money). However, they had a civil war, and an intervention, until 1950, blood shed without interruption. Without the Bolsheviks, we would have the same thing.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 13 December 2020 14: 49
                -17%
                Quote: bk0010
                However, they had a civil war, and an intervention, until 1950, blood shed without interruption. Without the Bolsheviks, we would have the same thing.

                would not cost ANYTHING.

                the interim government is recognized by ALL. There was no talk of any intervention (as against the traitors to the Bolsheviks later), just as there was no civil war - WHY?
                After all, there was a recognized and chosen US!

                HOW is the situation in almost colonial China similar to Russia?

                yes, nothing!
                1. bk0010
                  bk0010 13 December 2020 15: 06
                  +6
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  the interim government is recognized by ALL
                  So what?
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  WHAT FOR?
                  For dismemberment and seizure of the country, while there is a possibility.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  HOW is the situation in almost colonial China similar to Russia?
                  1. China is a predominantly peasant country. Russia is a predominantly peasant country.
                  2. China lost the war to the Japanese. Russia lost the war to the Japanese and the Germans.
                  3. China overthrew the monarchy in 1912. Russia overthrew the monarchy in 1917.
                  4. China is shaken by uprisings (1901, boxing uprising). Russia is shaken by uprisings (1905, first revolution).
                  5. China is full of secret anti-government societies. Russia is full of secret anti-government societies.
                  6. In China, there is terror against government officials. In Russia, there is terror against government officials.
                  7. In China, troops play a vital role in overthrowing the monarchy. In Russia, the most important role in the overthrow of the monarchy is played by the troops.
                  8. In China, the revolutionaries receive help from abroad. In Russia, revolutionaries receive help from abroad.
                  I wrote offhand, I probably did not remember everything.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 13 December 2020 15: 27
                    -22%
                    Quote: bk0010
                    So what?

                    TO
                    Quote: bk0010
                    For dismemberment and seizure of the country, while there is a possibility.

                    I'm about the civil war. WHO needs it if the DC decides EVERYTHING?
                    Quote: bk0010
                    1. China is a predominantly peasant country. Russia is a predominantly peasant country.

                    hundreds of countries of peasants - and no war
                    Quote: bk0010
                    ... China lost the war to the Japanese. Russia lost the war to the Japanese and the Germans.

                    The Germans have won the war, teach History, Versailles 1919.
                    Blolsheviks - no one to call in any way, represent no one - they lost
                    Quote: bk0010
                    3. China overthrew the monarchy in 1912. Russia overthrew the monarchy in 1917.

                    belay lol And?
                    Quote: bk0010
                    4. China is shaken by uprisings (1901, boxing uprising). Russia is shaken by uprisings (1905, first revolution).

                    Carrots and horseradish are different things
                    Quote: bk0010
                    5. China is full of secret anti-government societies. Russia is full of secret anti-government societies.
                    6. In China, there is terror against government officials. In Russia, there is terror against government officials.
                    etc.


                    So what?

                    China-semi-colonial dependent country, Torn apart long before 1912

                    Was there a DC? Was there an election?

                    And the communists-there-was, by the way.
                    1. bk0010
                      bk0010 13 December 2020 15: 44
                      +7
                      TO
                      Not an argument. Saddam Hussein was also recognized by everyone. And they hanged him.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      I'm about the civil war. WHO needs it if the DC decides EVERYTHING?
                      The civil war was needed by the opponents of the current government, the enemies of the Bolsheviks, but what?
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      hundreds of countries of peasants - and no war
                      Hundreds? In 1917? Really? List. But the main thing is an indication that the interests of the majority of the population coincided.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The nessists won wars, teach History, Versailles 1919.
                      Blolsheviks - no one to call in any way, represent no one - they lost
                      Remind you where the Germans were on the eastern front in February 1917? And in 1919, RI was no longer there, the liberals destroyed it. And they spread the army (remind about the first order)?
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      belay lol And?
                      Another correlation.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Carrots and horseradish are different things
                      Rebellions are rebellions, vegetables are not in business here.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      So what?
                      And the fact that in both countries there were similar processes with similar results.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      China is a semi-colonial dependent country, Torn apart long before 1912
                      Soyuznichki Russia would also like to do this. And they would.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Was there a DC? Was there an election?
                      These are insignificant little things.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      And the communists-there-was, by the way.
                      And there was no socialist revolution. And as it happened, the civil war ended. And she went for 40 years. The occupation ended earlier, and intervention was not allowed, although regular Chinese warnings were issued regularly.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 13 December 2020 21: 30
                        -17%
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Not an argument.

                        You
                        Quote: bk0010
                        The civil war was needed by the opponents of the current government, the enemies of the Bolsheviks, but what?

                        What kind of "acting" government?
                        What's wrong with you? This "power" NOBODY, NEVER EVER elected.

                        Therefore, the civil war was unleashed precisely by her, when this minority, which had been blown up at the elections, seized power by force.
                        With what fright the people, who have chosen a different government in the elections, should recognize the criminals?
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Hundreds? In 1917? Really? List. But the main thing is an indication that the interests of the majority of the population coincided.

                        Take a list and find: almost all countries are PEASANT
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Remind you where the Germans were on the eastern front in February 1917?

                        Yes, you yourself would have to see, otherwise you will say that in 1942 on the Volga, a completely lost war, according to your logic.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        And in 1919 RI was no longer there, the liberals destroyed it. And they spread the army (remind about the first order)?

                        The country was called the Russian state.
                        You can remember not only about the order published exclusively by the BOLSHEVIKS and the original of which is NOT, but also about the cretins who, with their decrees, denounced one-man management, titles, introduced electivity, and other crimes
                        Quote: bk0010
                        And the fact that in both countries there were similar processes with similar results.

                        There is NOTHING in common, I say again: morkrvka is not horseradish, although it is similar.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Soyuz girls also wanted Russia would to do this. And did would.

                        From "would" to the site of alternative history.

                        Documents on the table! Your idle chatter is not interesting.

                        Just REMEMBER - before the thief, no one has any detailed plans did not arise.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        These are insignificant little things.

                        The CA resolved ALL issues of countries WITHOUT GV. No US - there is a war unleashed by the Bolsheviks
                        Quote: bk0010
                        And there was no socialist revolution. And as it happened, the civil war ended. And she went for 40 years. The occupation ended earlier, and intervention was not allowed, although regular Chinese warnings were issued regularly.

                        there were different "revolutions of everyone and everything seethed constantly, there was an intervention and some other,
                        : In 1912 after the monarchy-Republic. In 1915, Chinese princes vote to establish in China monarchy with Yuan Shikai on the imperial throne. Parliament is dissolved. The establishment of the Chinese Empire is announced. This triggered a series of uprisings in the provinces of China. The provinces of Yunnan, Guizhou and Guangxi declare independence from Beijing. Then Guangdong, Zhejiang, Sichuan and Hunan are separated.

                        22 March 1916 year republic has been restored. Yuan Shikai was forced to relinquish the title

                        WHERE is it like that in Russia, what kind of nonsense are you pulling on?
                      2. bk0010
                        bk0010 14 December 2020 00: 06
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You
                        Everyone except you.
                        What kind of "acting" government?
                        What's wrong with you? This "power" NOBODY, NEVER EVER elected.
                        Googling "the triumphal march of Soviet power."
                        Therefore, the civil war was unleashed precisely by her, when this minority, which had been blown up at the elections, seized power by force.
                        With what fright the people, who have chosen a different government in the elections, should recognize the criminals?
                        Why should the Bolsheviks unleash a civil war when they already have power? The fact that a bunch of crooks were able to push more of their representatives onto the US does not mean that the people were for them. But victory in the civil war means.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Take a list and find: almost all countries are PEASANT
                        Damn, you just do not understand what this is about: in Europe there are several empires, all except Russia, industrial (there are more workers than peasants), in North America - USA, industrial, China, Turkey - peasant. And that's all. The rest (European trifle, South American countries, African and Asian colonies) are not players, local processes do not play a role.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yes, you yourself would have to see, otherwise you will say that in 1942 on the Volga, a completely lost war, according to your logic.
                        If the USSR collapsed at that moment, it would certainly be.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Just REMEMBER - before the thief, no one had any detailed plans.
                        Yeah, Bukonen was just joking, the "Ministry of Trust" is just cute jokes.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The CA resolved ALL issues of countries WITHOUT GV. No US - there is a war unleashed by the Bolsheviks
                        Yes, schazzz ... How many divisions did the US have? Who was going to implement his decisions?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHERE is it like that in Russia, what kind of nonsense are you pulling on?
                        All over Russia after February 1917.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        but also about cretins, who, by their decrees, have denied the one-man command, titles, introduced electivity, etc.
                        These are not the Bolsheviks, the liberals did it. In February. Google Order No. 1 of the Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 December 2020 10: 48
                        -6
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Everyone except you.

                        Has anyone authorized you to speak for everyone? No?

                        So what?
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Googling "the triumphal march of Soviet power."

                        Roll it up and yes, that lying nonsense!
                        This so-called "power" was sent to the Ukraine, the Don, Moscow, Kaluga, the Terek, the Volga, Orenburg, Wed Asia, Siberia, etc.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Why should the Bolsheviks unleash a civil war when they already have power? The fact that a bunch of crooks were able to push more of their representatives onto the US does not mean that the people were for them. But victory in the civil war means.

                        Even simple things don't get through?

                        The minority obsessed in the world's first general, equal, free elections, violation of the will of the peopleHe provoked the war of this people for his CHOICE, against the bandits who seized power by force and deception.

                        With what fright to obey the losers, who seized power by FORCE?

                        When the bandit in the alley turns your cheekbone, remember that he is right, tk. turned out to be stronger.

                        Quote: bk0010
                        Damn, you just don't understand what this is about: there are several empires in Europe, all except Russia are industrial (there are more workers than peasants)

                        Hack the knot: the industrial proletariat in Germany is 8,5 million (1907), in France 3,4 million (1906), in Italy 2,9 million (1901), in Austria-Hungary 2,3 million. ... (1900).
                        Quote: bk0010
                        If the USSR collapsed at that moment, then it would certainly

                        According to your logic, completely died more than once, tk. retreated a thousand kilometers east of RI.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Yeah, Bukonen was just joking, the "Ministry of Trust" is just cute jokes.

                        Once again, your chatter is never interested in visions: you announced plans for the collapse of Russia by the allies BEFORE the THIEF-present them on the table, otherwise it is clear, yes
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Yes, schazzz ... How many divisions did the US have? Who was going to implement his decisions?

                        The people who elected him commissioned and longed for it.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        All over Russia after February 1917

                        Twice restored monarchy, thrice-republic, ... WHAT are you talking about?
                        Quote: bk0010
                        These are not the Bolsheviks, the liberals did it. In February. Google Order No. 1 of the Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies.

                        Into his tube and - on the course!

                        ON THE TABLE original orders! NOBODY saw him.
                        And the BOLSHEVIKS released him, hack it on the forehead.
                      4. bk0010
                        bk0010 14 December 2020 21: 25
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Has anyone authorized you to speak for everyone? No?
                        So what?
                        Such that the topic is read by many people, and only you have objections.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Roll it up and yes, that lying nonsense!
                        This so-called "power" was sent to the Ukraine, the Don, Moscow, Kaluga, the Terek, the Volga, Orenburg, Wed Asia, Siberia, etc.
                        That is, the rest of the country does not count for you? Yes, there were problems for Ukraine, the Don, the North Caucasus, the South Urals, but the rest of the country took Soviet power. The fact that this does not suit you is your problem.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        According to your logic, completely died more than once, tk. retreated a thousand kilometers east of RI.
                        No, this is your logic. According to my logic, the USSR did not cease to exist and continued the struggle, but the empire disappeared, and the army began to scatter.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Once again, your chatter is never interested in visions: you announced plans for the collapse of Russia by the allies BEFORE the THIEF-present them on the table, otherwise it is clear, yes
                        I'm not your servant that I gave you google, look for yourself, understand, right?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The people who elected him commissioned and longed for it.
                        Yes seriously? And who fought in the civil war under the slogan "All power to the constituent assembly"?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Twice restored monarchy, thrice-republic, ... WHAT are you talking about?
                        The truth.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ON THE TABLE the original order! NOBODY saw him.
                        And the BOLSHEVIKS released him, hack it on the forehead.
                        Look for yourself, I'm not your servant (there is even a photo in the net). The Bolsheviks at the time of its release were still nothing, it was the liberals who tried.
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 15 December 2020 11: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Such that the topic is read by many people, and only you have objections.

                        Didn’t get it?
                        Once again: has someone authorized you to speak for everyone?
                        No?
                        Don't say so!
                        Quote: bk0010
                        That is, the rest of the country does not count for you? Yes, there were problems for Ukraine, the Don, the North Caucasus, the South Urals, but the rest of the country took Soviet power.

                        you forgot, and In Siberia, in the Volga region, Wed. Asia. And what do you have left?

                        Nobody accepted - show me an honest free general election, where yours, after their crimes of the thief and the dispersal of the US, were chosen What again you can't ... can you?
                        So do not then about "triumph"

                        Bandits-deserters and deviators from the front came, but with rifles and dispersed the legitimate SELECTED government-Duma and even councils where there were no Bolsheviks
                        Quote: bk0010
                        No, this is your logic.

                        You lie, and even rudely: this nonsense, like "defeat" in the war, who wrote:
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Remind you where the Germans were on the eastern front in February 1917?
                        ?
                        I'll teach you once again: Russia in 1917 stood on TWO THOUSAND WESTthan the USSR in 1943.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        eh, seriously? And who fought in the civil war under the slogan "All power to the constituent assembly"?

                        All of Russia was at war: you could KNOW such things!

                        This was the MAIN goal The Russian state, at war with the occupying usurpers in the east, south, north and azpad
                        Quote: bk0010
                        The truth.

                        Owl on the globe - nothing to do
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Look for yourself, I'm not your servant (there is even a photo in the net).

                        That is, you confessed to an empty talking shop, without documents and facts.

                        Rt
                      6. bk0010
                        bk0010 15 December 2020 21: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Once again: has someone authorized you to speak for everyone?
                        Yes, I have empowered myself.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you forgot, and In Siberia, in the Volga region, Wed. Asia. And what do you have left?
                        For Central Asia I will not say, but Siberia - for Soviet power, there Kolchak was already so agitated ..., everyone was imbued.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Nobody accepted - show me an honest free general election, where yours, after their crimes of the thief and the dispersal of the US, were chosen What again you can't ... can you? So do not then about "triumph"
                        The whole process took from October 17 to February 18, if everyone, as you say, were against, then nothing would have happened so quickly. Elections case 10, now there are elections, has it become easier? And what are they mine? The Bolsheviks are on their own, I am on my own, separately. But I will go your way: show me the original document stating that there was no triumphant march of Soviet power. You can not? So it was a triumph. By the way, pay attention to what they turned the front-line heroes into deserters. Where do the dodgers' rifles come from?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I will teach you once again: Russia in 1917 stood TWO THOUSAND WEST than the USSR in 1943.
                        Once again for the most gifted: after February, the Russian Empire no longer stood. And the troops of the new Russia skied home without the influence of the Germans, the Germans marched almost without encountering resistance.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        All of Russia was at war: you could KNOW such things!
                        It was the MAIN goal of the Russian state, fighting against the occupying usurpers in the east, south, north and azpad
                        Again, show me the original document, which says that all of Russia fought for the constituent assembly.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Owl on the globe - nothing to do
                        These are facts. The fact that you don't like them does not cancel their existence.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That is, you confessed to an empty talking shop, without documents and facts.
                        You don't know how to search at all? Okay, here's what you don't want to see:

                        Now it's your turn to show your documents.
                      7. lucul
                        lucul 15 December 2020 21: 17
                        -2
                        show me the original document stating that there was no triumphal march of Soviet power. You can not? So it was a triumph.

                        What a triumph ...... words are not enough, do you consider a civil war (genocide in fact) a triumph? The civil war of 1917-1922 is a terrible tragedy for the Russian people, millions of Russians died. ...
                        If this is a triumph for you, then you are not Russian either by blood or mentally.
                      8. bk0010
                        bk0010 15 December 2020 21: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: lucul
                        What a triumph ...... words are not enough, do you consider a civil war (genocide in fact) a triumph?
                        Damn, if you didn't go to school, you would at least google it before writing. The civil war and the triumphant march of Soviet power are two different processes. The triumphal procession of Soviet power ended in February 18 and was bloodless (well, perhaps anemic), the civil war ended in October 1922 and millions of people died in it.
                      9. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 15 December 2020 23: 03
                        0
                        Quote: bk0010
                        The triumphal march of Soviet power ended in February 18 and was bloodless (well, perhaps anemic), the civil war ended in October 1922 and millions of people died in it

                        And how did the GW start, if there was a triumphal procession before that?
                      10. bk0010
                        bk0010 16 December 2020 21: 13
                        -1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And how did the GW start, if there was a triumphal procession before that?
                        Everything is complicated there. Civil war is not only white against red, it is all against everyone. There were whites who went to fight the Bolsheviks as German agents (for the unity of Russia), there were those who wanted to overthrow the power of the Bolsheviks (not Soviet power, this is different: at one time the slogan "For Soviets without Communists" was relevant), there were more options. Many front-line soldiers who returned home found that while they were fighting, their families were thrown with the land (peasant communities made a redistribution of land every few years and 1917 was just the year of redistribution, which is why the army disappeared so quickly: the men from the front rushed to control the division of the land) ... And they have guns, and they have learned to kill without trembling in soul. In the cities, too, began to remember grievances. Nationalists arose, hoping to become "kings" on the remnants of the empire. All sorts of ideological began to embody their ideas, regardless of the victims. The bandits, taking advantage of the anarchy, have amassed huge gangs. And many more. And then gradually everyone began to fight. Until November 1918, the situation was only brewing, there was still no big blood. And then it started spinning. By the summer of 1920, the Bolsheviks had almost finished off the whites, but the civil war continued until the end of 1922. In principle, the Bolsheviks had very little chance of winning, since everyone was fighting against everyone, but everyone was fighting against the Bolsheviks as the current government. But they got out.
                      11. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 16 December 2020 21: 51
                        0
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Everything is complicated there. Civil war is not only white against red, it is all against everyone.

                        I know what the GW is that swept over Russia, but how does this cancel out the fact that the words "triumphal march" are a very strong exaggeration? If it were so, then there would not be this bloody chaos, or it would have been, but there would have been an order of magnitude less victims.
                      12. bk0010
                        bk0010 16 December 2020 22: 21
                        0
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        that the words "triumphal procession" is a very strong exaggeration
                        This is the official name for this process. I agree that it is ponteous, but that's how they taught at school.
                      13. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 17 December 2020 19: 28
                        0
                        Quote: bk0010
                        This is the official name for this process.

                        Well, in this sense, everyone is trying to come up with loud and pretentious slogans, there is nothing new in this, but in the context of the discussion we are talking about the actual state of affairs.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 16 December 2020 09: 30
            +1
            Quote: bk0010
            Yes, I have empowered myself.

            And you .... who?
            belay
            Quote: bk0010
            I will not say for Central Asia, but Siberia for Soviet power,

            WHERE .. "triumphant" in 1917?
            And they shot people-counterrevolutionaries, by the way, two decadesmore
            Quote: bk0010
            The whole process took from October 17 to February 18,

            Go to school, yeah
            Quote: bk0010
            Elections case 10, now there are elections, has it become easier?

            A club on the head is YOUR "election".

            And yes, it's easier, freer and HUMANLY, and not like yours, wild hypocrisy, lies, stupidity and contempt for people
            Quote: bk0010
            But I will go your way: show me the original document stating that there was no triumphant march of Soviet power. You can not? So it was a triumph.

            FACTS are given above
            Quote: bk0010
            By the way, pay attention to what they turned the front-line heroes into deserters. Where do the dodgers' rifles come from?

            It's not about the front-line soldiers (they are at the front), but about the garrison rats evading the front. Not front-line soldiers in Petrograd made a coup, but rear storerooms
            Quote: bk0010
            Again, show me the original document, which says that all of Russia fought for the constituent assembly.

            FACTS - see. Russian Civil War
            Quote: bk0010
            These are facts. The fact that you do not like them does not cancel their existence.

            With Russia, there is NOTHING in common: go to restore the monarchy in Russia, as in China.
            Again ... can't you? lol
            Quote: bk0010
            You don't know how to search at all? Okay, here's what you don't want to see:

            I will see that it doesn't reach you THREE times:

            AGAIN: NO original Order, does not exist in nature, this order is printed exclusively by BOLSHEVIKS.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Olgovich
            Olgovich 16 December 2020 22: 36
            +1
            Quote: bk0010
            I am the best representative of the people, very modest. So what?

            Now it's nothing: I told you-Nobody
            Quote: bk0010
            wikipedia.

            I don't read Vicky. This is for iiiots
            Quote: bk0010
            And the fact that someone was shot is not an argument at all:

            They shot, if you still don't know, ENEMIES of the authorities (see the so-called "courts"
            Quote: bk0010
            I haven’t come across the memories of my contemporaries about how cool these elections were. The fact that the CA was properly dispersed was met, but about the elections to the CA - no. Will there be proofs about this goodness?

            "You touch me" (c).

            Is this an educational program?

            Nowhere else has there been such general, equal, secret, direct, competitive elections!

            Even the bald dwarf about Russia, VP, admitted:
            Russia is the most FREE country in the world!
            "She spent them
            Quote: bk0010
            then, after February 1917?

            This is a THIEF.
            Quote: bk0010
            Are you talking about?

            On the history of China, you are given the fact of the restoration of the monarchy, see. above
            Quote: bk0010
            Once again: the order was issued on March 14, when the main Bolsheviks had not yet returned from across the hill.

            it was they who were the main criminals of DISCUSSION in the council, but WHAT was adopted specifically - no one knows the original NO!

            Your false leaflet was printed by BOLSHEVIKS.

            These are just FACTS. ...
          5. Deniska999
            Deniska999 17 December 2020 08: 36
            +1
            Well, suppose Wikipedia is not for idiots, a number of topics are very well covered there. I personally know many authors and I myself am one of them, and we really spend (I spent before, now there is almost no time left) a lot of time to write quality content. For example, to write an article about Claudius of Gotha, the Roman emperor, I had to shovel through a set of sources in English, German and French. And if you don't like something, you can always fix it. Anything is more useful than arguing on VO)
          6. Olgovich
            Olgovich 17 December 2020 10: 32
            +1
            Quote: Deniska999
            Well, suppose Wikipedia is not for idiots, a number of topics are very well covered there.

            Especially Ukrainian yes
            And if you don't like something, you can always fix it.
            Apparently, therefore, sometimes one paragraph of the article is diametrically opposite in meaning to the previous one.
            Quote: Deniska999
            Anything is more useful than arguing on VO)

            It's all useless: well, for fun ...
          7. Deniska999
            Deniska999 17 December 2020 10: 35
            +1
            Especially Ukrainian

            Who hurts.
          8. Olgovich
            Olgovich 17 December 2020 11: 43
            0
            Quote: Deniska999
            Especially Ukrainian

            Who hurts.

            The level of publications is "sick".

            And not only in Ukrainian, but in Russian too
    2. bk0010
      bk0010 17 December 2020 23: 16
      -1
      Quote: Olgovich
      Now it's nothing: I said, Nobody
      Don't judge others by yourself. If you are nobody, it does not mean that everyone is also nobody.
      Quote: Olgovich
      I don't read Vicky. This is for iiiots
      So go to the second line of the search engine. This is not difficult.
      Quote: Olgovich
      They shot, if you still don't know, ENEMIES of the authorities (see the so-called "courts"
      Yes? Whom did the whites shoot then? Remember: then everyone and anyone was shooting, it was a civil war. Moreover, the innocent suffered most of all: the guilty dumped, without waiting for the execution.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Nowhere else has there been such general, equal, secret, direct, competitive elections!
      Yes? And do the Americans know that they have not been leaders in elections for a long time (sarcasm)? Why do you think so? Will there be proofs?
      Quote: Olgovich
      Even the bald dwarf about Russia, VP, admitted:
      Wow, he is now in your authority ?!
      Quote: Olgovich
      This is a THIEF.
      No-no-no: by October, the remnants of the tsarist army had practically ceased to exist, only relics such as Latvian riflemen remained. The Bolsheviks had to create a Red Guard. So these were no longer logisticians, but simply individuals in greatcoats. Now, if you ran into the sailors, then I would agree with you: the fleet decomposed, but did not scatter.
      Quote: Olgovich
      On the history of China, you are given the fact of the restoration of the monarchy, see. above
      Once again: Manchukuo is not a Chinese monarchy, this is a Japanese intelligence operation, there was an emperor, but he did not rule over anything. He was not even shot after the end of the occupation, so nothing depended on him.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Your false leaflet was printed by BOLSHEVIKS.
      These are just FACTS. ...
      Yeah. But everyone did it. You have a mismatch in terms (the main Bolsheviks have not arrived yet, the April theses - remember? Then (after April) you can begin to blame them) and according to the results: did the soldiers' committees really appear, or will you deny it too? So what facts are you talking about? How can an order that has been executed be false?
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 18 December 2020 08: 18
      0
      Quote: bk0010
      Do not judge others by yourself. If you nobody, this does not mean that everyone is also nobody.

      Am I ... talking to myself? WITH YOU!
      Quote: bk0010
      Yes? Whom did the whites shoot then?

      Yeah. Whites fired only at the Civil War (much less than Reds), yours fired for TEN YEARS!
      Quote: bk0010
      Yes? And do the Americans know that they have not been leaders in elections for a long time (sarcasm)? Why do you think so? Will there be proofs?

      They know, unlike the ignorant, tie-in a knot
      The Nineteenth Amendment (Amendment XIX) to the United States Constitution was adopted by Congress on August 18 1920 of the year. This amendment introduced active suffrage for women.
      Quote: bk0010
      Wow, he is now in your authority ?!

      He is YOUR authority. You listen to him, don't you?
      Quote: bk0010
      No-no-no: by October, the remnants of the tsarist army had practically ceased to exist, only relics such as Latvian riflemen remained.

      Do not be nonsense: the German army has practically not diminished in the East Frostn.
      But after yours, how!
      Quote: bk0010
      The Bolsheviks had to create the Red Guard. So these were no longer logisticians, but simply individuals in greatcoats.

      Voluntary recruitment in the so-called guard in 01.1918 - FULLY failed
      Quote: bk0010
      Once again: Manchukuo is not a Chinese monarchy, this is a Japanese intelligence operation, there was an emperor, but he ruled nothing

      Go to school, huh?
      Quote: bk0010
      You discrepancy on time (the main Bolsheviks have not arrived yet, the April theses - remember?

      To school!
      Quote: bk0010
      soldiers' committees actually appeared

      ... As well as the decree on the same COMMITTEES, electivity, abolition of ranks after the thief.
      Quote: bk0010
      How can an order that has been executed be false?

      And what does not reach?
    4. bk0010
      bk0010 19 December 2020 12: 56
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      Am I ... talking to myself? WITH YOU!
      You are talking to me, but judge, apparently, by yourself.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Yeah. Whites fired only at the Civil War (much less than Reds), yours fired for TEN YEARS!
      It's only because they were defeated. If they had won, they would have also fired for decades (see China).
      Quote: Olgovich
      Do not be nonsense: the German army has practically not diminished in the East Frostn.
      But after yours, how!
      And what does the German army have to do with it (by the way, after February the regular troops were replaced with ladver)? They talked about the desertion of the Russian army. After the February Revolution, the number of deserters increased fivefold. Things got to the point that by October there were no troops left between the Germans and Petrograd.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Voluntary recruitment in the so-called guard in 01.1918 - FULLY failed
      So what?
      Quote: Olgovich
      Go to school, huh?

      Quote: Olgovich
      To school!
      Drain counted
      Quote: Olgovich
      ... As well as the decree on the same COMMITTEES, electivity, abolition of ranks after the thief.
      Not an argument.
      Quote: Olgovich
      And what does not reach?
      The order has been executed, but it is false ... But it has been fulfilled ... No, it does not reach.
    5. Olgovich
      Olgovich 19 December 2020 13: 41
      -2
      Quote: bk0010
      You are talking to me, but judge, apparently, by yourself.

      Those. it is impossible to judge you by these conversations? lol
      Read about yourself, you said
      Quote: bk0010
      It's only because they were defeated. If they won, they would also shoot for decades.

      Nope: white is Russia BEFORE you.

      And there they killed less in a CENTURY than yours in one DAY 37 g.

      So this is purely YOUR many decades against the people.
      Quote: bk0010
      And here the German army

      Don't get it? She is DEATH as needed in the WEST. But no ...
      Quote: bk0010
      Things got to the point that by October there were no troops left between the Germans and Petrograd.

      It has come to your complete ignorance, talk nonsense.
      Quote: bk0010
      So what?

      The people do not need power "nagoda".
      Quote: bk0010
      Quote: Olgovich
      To school!
      Drain counted

      Once again, the restoration of the monarchy in Russia (as it was in China) was NOT, as well as three republics.
      To school!
      Quote: bk0010
      Not an argument.

      he, he: it was this GAME that finished off the army. There are reports from the front commanders for the militia: the front was still standing before the VOR. But after ...
      Quote: bk0010
      The rikaz is fulfilled, but it is a lie ... But it is fulfilled ... No, it does not reach.

      Learn what this word means -sl Ozhegova.
    6. bk0010
      bk0010 19 December 2020 14: 09
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      Those. it is impossible to judge you by these conversations?
      Absolutely.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Nope: white is Russia BEFORE you.
      And there they killed less in a CENTURY than yours in one DAY 37 g.
      So this is purely YOUR many decades against the people
      Don't be confused: Whites appeared after the October Revolution. There were no whites under the king. Whites, for the most part, are the same enemies of tsarism as the Bolsheviks. And they poured blood in cisterns, without any reflections, so that about the fact that they killed in less than a day in a century, this is not about them.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Don't get it? She is DEATH as needed in the WEST. But no ...
      This is yes. Therefore, after February, the Germans replaced the regular units with the Landwehr.
      Quote: Olgovich
      The people do not need power "nagoda".
      No, not needed, but fought. We thought they had fought.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Once again, the restoration of the monarchy in Russia (as it was in China) was NOT, as well as three republics. To school!
      In China, there was also no restoration of the monarchy. And the republics in Russia arose a breakthrough, that is not the chieftain, then the republic. I'm not talking about the UPR, the Far Eastern Republic and others.
      Quote: Olgovich
      he, he: it was this GAME that finished off the army. There are reports from the front commanders for the militia: the front was still standing before the VOR. But after ..
      And why did this game not finish off the army after February, and immediately finish it off after October?
    7. Olgovich
      Olgovich 19 December 2020 15: 27
      -2
      Quote: bk0010
      Absolutely.

      People are judged by their actions. Your posts are actions.
      Quote: bk0010
      Don't be confused: white appeared after the October revolution. There were no whites under the king. Whites, for the most part, are the same enemies of tsarism as the Bolsheviks.

      From ... Mars?
      The leaders of the Russian state were high-ranking officials in Ingushetia.
      AND- NO blood
      Quote: bk0010
      And they poured blood in tanks, without any reflections, so that about the fact that they killed in less than a day in a century, this is not about them.

      About them: unlike the Reds, who shot for decades, the Whites after the GW nowhere did not shoot
      Quote: bk0010
      This is yes. Therefore, after February, the Germans replaced the regular units with the Landwehr.

      And he was there until February. Don't know again
      Quote: bk0010
      No, not needed, but fought. We thought they had fought.

      Need not. And they sent her. Further, only by blackmail, force, executions, hostages, hunger and deceit
      Quote: bk0010
      In China, there was also no restoration of the monarchy.

      You're lying. AGAIN:
      В
      1912 post-monarchy-Republic... In 1915, Chinese princes vote to establish a monarchy in China with Yuan Shikai on the imperial throne. Parliament is dissolved. The establishment of the Chinese Empire is announced.

      22 March 1916 year the republic was restored. Yuan Shikai was forced to relinquish the title

      Memorize at last!
      M in Russia this was NOT!
      Quote: bk0010
      And why did this game not finish off the army after February, and immediately finish it off after October?

      The school will help you!

      Decrees on COMMITTEES, ELECTION of commanders, abolition of UNITY, telegrams ...soldiers fool ... about fraternization and truce, ... demobilization during ... WAR-disintegrated in an instant.

      Read the aerial sources, I say again, it is described there day after day
    8. bk0010
      bk0010 19 December 2020 16: 01
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      Your posts are actions.
      You have confused reality and virtuality. It may be dangerous.
      Quote: Olgovich

      From ... Mars?
      The leaders of the Russian state were high-ranking officials in Ingushetia.
      AND- NO blood
      Really? As far as I remember, the interim government is a handful of Duma deputies, no more.
      Quote: Olgovich
      About them: unlike the Reds, who shot for decades, the Whites did not shoot anywhere after the GV
      Who would let them? They lost and went into exile.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Need not. And they sent her. Further, only by blackmail, force, executions, hostages, hunger and deceit
      Yeah, not needed. White power did not want, did not fight for it. The Red authorities did not want, did not fight for it. And green too. And millions of armed people in the red army fought to the death only because of blackmail. Yes, that's how it was.
      Quote: Olgovich
      In 1915, Chinese princes vote to establish a monarchy in China with Yuan Shikai on the imperial throne.
      But what are you talking about! I didn't even remember that. Accepted. In Russia, they loved the Tsar-Father so much that it never occurred to anyone to restore his power even temporarily.
      Quote: Olgovich
      spread out instantly
      Yes, not in an instant, everything was already rolling on the roll: from February to October 3 million soldiers from the front rushed.
    9. Olgovich
      Olgovich 19 December 2020 20: 09
      0
      Quote: bk0010
      You have confused reality and virtuality. It may be dangerous

      You confirm my conclusion, Nobody
      Quote: bk0010
      Really? As far as I remember, the interim government is a handful of Duma deputies, no more.

      1.The Russian state is not an EaP
      2. And here you don't know: four are not the State Duma deputies, including the Chairman of Lvov, but Kerensky entered as representative of Petrosovet.
      3. And yes, the future leaders are white, being leaders and before the VOR, they did not shed blood before the GW.
      The vis-a-vis, having seized power, flooded it.
      Quote: bk0010
      Who would let them? They lost and got lost to emigration.

      They have not disappeared. But they didn't spill it ANYWHERE.
      Quote: bk0010
      Yeah, not needed.

      The people are great. power is not needed. Therefore, the mobilization of volunteers failed with the TRACK
      Quote: bk0010
      But what are you talking about! I didn't even remember that. Accepted. In Russia, they loved the Tsar-Father so much that it never occurred to anyone to restore his power even temporarily.

      I draw your attention to the fact that the above has reached you only from the 4th time: see above.

      so, Russia is NOT China.
      Quote: bk0010
      Yes, not in an instant, everything was already rolling on the roll: from February to October 3 million soldiers from the front rushed.

      the front stood up to your traitors
    10. bk0010
      bk0010 19 December 2020 20: 26
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      You confirm my conclusion, Nobody
      You are nobody. And you don't even seem to realize it.
      Quote: Olgovich
      The vis-a-vis, having seized power, flooded it.
      Those who profiled the government would also have flooded the country with blood, simply did not have time.
      Quote: Olgovich
      They have not disappeared. But they didn't spill it ANYWHERE.
      Who would have let them.
      Quote: Olgovich
      The people are great. power is not needed. Therefore, the mobilization of volunteers failed with the TRACK
      But, nevertheless, later most of the people were on the side of the Bolsheviks. Let me remind you that it was they who won the civil war.
      Quote: Olgovich
      so, Russia is NOT China.
      Russia is not China. But the situation after the overthrow of the monarchy is similar there and there. The fluctuation with the temporary restoration of the monarchy in China has no fundamental effect on anything.
      Quote: Olgovich
      the front stood up to your traitors
      Whom did the Bolsheviks betray (in this case, not in general)? They explicitly stated that they would end the war (the peace decree - remember?). And the front did not stand, the front was dumping home.
  • kamakama
    kamakama 14 December 2020 11: 06
    +1
    oh bullshit this graph. During the Great Depression, US statistics did not provide average population and life expectancy, this is an official fact. There cannot be such hesitation. For what reasons is another question. Concealment of defarming or increased mortality for economic reasons or why else
  • bubalik
    bubalik 13 December 2020 13: 14
    +7
    in 1933 in PEACE, life expectancy and infant mortality are higher than in Russia during the years of the WORLD WAR.
    ,,, infant mortality has always been lower than in RI.
    RGAE F.1562, Op. 329, D. 256, L. 119-139
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 13 December 2020 15: 13
      -8
      Quote: bubalik
      infant mortality has always been lower than in RI
      RGAE F.1562, Op.329, D. 256, L. 119-139.

      what ... TWENTY sheets You pointed out where they are. about what? You have one.

      Name a specific DOCUMENT. who made it, who released it and where officially published in the USSR - collection Nar khoz, No., etc. ...

      And now the truth:

      compiled on the basis of published documents of the USSR http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0125/analit02.php

      1933 Peaceful year -300 deaths, in Russia, even in a WAR-LESS by 70!

      and yes: Russia exceeded France n ml mortality less in% and 1913 than the USSR exceeded France in the 1980s
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 09: 51
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    Nikolai's Russia is a country of FREEDOM

    And why did contemporaries hate "this" country so much? Mystery of the century.
    Quote: Olgovich
    not the main, but a significant part of the White movement-monarchists

    "Some dumbass" (YA Slashchev).
    Quote: Olgovich
    And he could become a banner

    However, he did not! And none of the Romanovs did! Even in 1920-21. The peasants who rebelled against the communists stopped the uprisings on suspicion that the tsar might return. His killers were better in their eyes!
    1. lucul
      lucul 13 December 2020 10: 19
      -10%
      And why did contemporaries hate "this" country so much? Mystery of the century.

      Yeah, they "hated" so directly that the people fought to the death for her, for 5 years, during the civil war of 1917-1922, and the people loved the Soviet government so much, well, they loved so much that in 1991 no one went out to defend their beloved Soviet power.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 10: 52
        +9
        Quote: lucul
        people fought to the death for her, for 5 years

        This fact has not been recorded in history.
        1. lucul
          lucul 13 December 2020 10: 54
          -8
          This fact has not been recorded in history.

          God's dew?
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 10: 57
            +9
            Truth. True.
            1. lucul
              lucul 13 December 2020 11: 00
              -5
              Truth. True.

              This is a turn, maybe there was no civil war, no? ))))
              1. Sugar Honeyovich
                Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 11: 03
                +7
                There was a civil war. And great.
                1. lucul
                  lucul 13 December 2020 11: 04
                  -6
                  There was a civil war. And great.

                  And her reasons? )))
                  1. Sugar Honeyovich
                    Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 11: 06
                    +9
                    The main one is age-old social strife.
                    1. lucul
                      lucul 13 December 2020 11: 07
                      -10%
                      The main one is age-old social strife.

                      What do you mean, and what was it? )))
                    2. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 11: 10
                      +9
                      In the fact that there were gentlemen and there were those whom the gentlemen called "people." Or "men". The Lord oppressed people. Many years. And in humans, patience is not unlimited. This is common knowledge.
                    3. lucul
                      lucul 13 December 2020 11: 14
                      -9
                      In the fact that there were gentlemen and there were those whom the gentlemen called "people." Or "men". The Lord oppressed people. Many years. And in humans, patience is not unlimited. This is common knowledge.

                      Remove propaganda from your ears))))
                      If it were as you say, then only one nobility would fight against the Bolsheviks, which had something to lose.
                      But in the civil war, both workers and peasants fought on the side of the whites, and not one or two, but half of the country, and for 5 years.
                      And now compare how many people came out to defend the Soviet regime in 1991?
                    4. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 11: 25
                      +8
                      Quote: lucul
                      Take propaganda off your ears

                      Submit your ears, I'll take it off. laughing
                      Quote: lucul
                      both workers and peasants fought on the side of the whites, and not one or two, but half of the country

                      About half of the country - you turned it down, of course. And the fact that for the last half century before 1917 there were many noblemen and few peasants among the revolutionaries, what does it mean? If in Russia it was not as I say, then how was it? In your? And get rid of the old myth - as if the whites were completely at war for the old system or for the monarchy in general. The same Izhevsk and Votkinskites fought in the Whites for Soviet power and for nothing else.
                    5. lucul
                      lucul 13 December 2020 11: 28
                      -10%
                      And get rid of the old myth - as if the whites were completely at war for the old system or for the monarchy in general

                      This is the number, and for what they then fought for 5 years? )))
                      Ie I have been fighting for 5 years and I cannot understand why, so what? )))
                    6. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 12: 19
                      +7
                      Quote: lucul
                      and for what they then fought for 5 years? )))

                      Whites themselves say this:
                      “I often had to think about the reasons for the failures of our white movement, and I always came to the conclusion that one of the main reasons for this was the absence of firmly and clearly expressed goals of the struggle” (V. A. Kislitsyn).

                      "Even we, senior bosses, could not now answer the question: what is the reality of the Dobrarmia program, even in its basic features? What could we say about the details of this program, as, for example, in response to a question that was often asked to me by the miners of Donetsk Basin: what are the views of the leaders of the Good Army on the labor issue? It's funny to say, but one had to look for volunteer ideology in the table speeches and speeches made by General Denikin on one occasion or another; a simple comparison of two or three such "sources" convinced the author of the instability of the political worldview of their author and in the fact that later skepticism and caution gradually canceled the original promises "(A.G. Shkuro).

                      "Then I hardly believed in anything. If they ask me what I fought for and what my mood was, I will honestly answer that I do not know ...
                      I will not hide the fact that sometimes the thought flashed in my mind that perhaps the majority of the Russian people were on the side of the Bolsheviks - after all, it is impossible that they are still triumphant thanks only to the Germans, Chinese, etc., and whether we have betrayed our homeland allies. But I somehow cowardly drove away from myself and opposed them with rumors of uprisings within Russia, etc.
                      It was a terrible time when I could not say firmly and directly to my subordinates what I am fighting for. "(Ya.A. Slashchev).

                      Quote: lucul
                      Ie I have been fighting for 5 years and I cannot understand why, so what? )))

                      It turns out ... so! lol
                    7. lucul
                      lucul 13 December 2020 12: 37
                      -9
                      It turns out ... so!

                      Laughter - I will tell you the reason for the defeat of the whites. The Reds promised the peasants - all the land to the peasants, that is, after the victory, EVERY peasant will receive as much land as he can cultivate. The Reds promised the workers - the factories to the workers, that is, after the victory, the factory will become the property of the workers, that is, they will not become hired workers in their factory, but full co-owners, with an evenly distributed profit (dividends) after receiving the added value of the product. And people believed it, and died for it in the civil war.
                      And how did the Soviet government act as a reward for the victory? Gave the land to the peasants, and the factories to the workers as personal property? ))))
                    8. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 12: 44
                      +6
                      Did the Reds promise to give something to OWNERSHIP? Earth too? Something new! Can you give examples?
                      And the first question we had was: the reasons for the civil war? What's your version?
                    9. lucul
                      lucul 13 December 2020 13: 00
                      -10%
                      Did the Reds promise to give something to OWNERSHIP? Earth too? Something new! Can you give examples?

                      The slogan is land for the peasants, and factories for the workers, how will you decipher? )))
                      Opportunity to work for peasants on collective farm land for workdays?
                      Or workers to work as employees in a factory for workdays?
                      And the first question we had was: the reasons for the civil war? What's your version?

                      Taking away EVERYTHING personally acquired into public property.
                    10. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 13: 34
                      +7
                      Quote: lucul
                      The slogan is land for the peasants and factories for the workers, how will you decipher?

                      Well, you give. You need to know the topic before talking about it.
                      How will I decode? Since they were deciphered and implemented:
                      "The right to private ownership of land is canceled forever;
                      land can neither be sold, nor bought, nor leased to
                      the lease is either pledged or in any other way alienated.
                      All land: state, specific, cabinet, monastery,
                      church, sessional, majorate, private ownership,
                      public and peasant, etc., is alienated free of charge,
                      turns into the public domain and passes into the use of all
                      working on it.
                      For victims of a property coup,
                      only the right to public support for the time necessary to
                      adaptation to new conditions of existence "(08.11.1917)

                      "Declare the property of the Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic of the following industrial and commercial enterprises located within the Soviet Republic with all their capital and property, whatever they may be:" (28.06.1918/XNUMX/XNUMX).

                      Quote: lucul
                      Taking away EVERYTHING personally acquired into public property.

                      This fact did not take place. At the state level at least. And how does this compare with your explanation of the Red victory? They took away EVERYTHING they had personally acquired, but promised something to own and ... won by this? You won't get bored with you! laughing lol
                    11. lucul
                      lucul 13 December 2020 20: 04
                      -4
                      How will I decode? Since they were deciphered and implemented:
                      "The right to private ownership of land is canceled forever;
                      land can neither be sold, nor bought, nor leased to
                      the lease is either pledged or in any other way alienated.
                      All land: state, specific, cabinet, monastery,
                      church, sessional, majorate, private ownership,
                      public and peasant, etc., is alienated free of charge,
                      turns into the public domain and passes into the use of all
                      working on it.

                      Do you really believe that these legal subtleties could be brought to the consciousness of illiterate peasants? )))) I beg you, the commissars promised them land to the peasants and the factories to the workers, literally, otherwise the people would not have followed them.
                      Here is a fresh example for you to understand the picture - Ukraine in 2014 and the signing of Eurointegration (analogous to your "The right to private ownership of land is canceled forever"). Did any of the people read that Eurointegration clearly? No, the people followed those out into the street who promised that there would be wages like in Germany (land for peasants) and pensions like in Germany (factories for workers), that's it, period! And this is already with the people who are 99% able to read and write.
                      Do you understand? And after a little time, people begin to ask - how they were so deceived, they promised one thing, but it turned out completely different? Then there is an answer to this in advance - read the document of European integration, there is nothing about salaries and pensions, as in Germany - your notorious:
                      All land: state, specific, cabinet, monastery,
                      church, sessional, majorate, private ownership,
                      public and peasant, etc., is alienated free of charge,
                      turns into the public domain and passes into the use of all
                      working on it.

                      And in the future, the descendants will be told that no one promised anything to the people, they say, read the European integration, everything is there, everything is like yours.
                      Taking away EVERYTHING personally acquired into public property.

                      Such a fact did not take place

                      Well, how did it not take place? The land was taken away? Was it taken away (from the peasants who bought it), Was it taken away from the cattle? They took it away. Has the money accumulated been reset to zero? Zeroed out. In total, a person entered the brave new Bolshevik world - naked like a falcon, and worked for at least 10 years for workdays. And only later, when in 1945 ours entered Germany and had the opportunity to compare the standard of living, they realized where they had lived for the last 30 years.
                    12. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 13 December 2020 21: 30
                      +1
                      Quote: lucul
                      Do you really believe that these legal subtleties could be brought to the consciousness of illiterate peasants

                      This moment always surprises me.
                    13. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 13 December 2020 21: 51
                      +3
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      This moment always surprises me.

                      peasants are 70% of the population of the then Russia. At a critical moment, it was promises that played a key role and united society. There was no experience of building a society. Everything was built on voluntary compulsion. Read the story about the introduction of the Fordson Putilovets tractor. It was given only to collectives; it was not sold to private hands. If, in your opinion, reds are bad, then was it good in a hungry country to tear up 3 skins for a piece of bread for a fist?
                    14. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 14 December 2020 06: 18
                      0
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      If, in your opinion, reds are bad, then was it good in a hungry country to tear up 3 skins for a piece of bread to a fist?

                      Well, firstly, the kulak is also a peasant, and secondly, we are talking about what exactly they were promised. As Lucul (Vitaly) correctly noted
                      Quote: lucul
                      Do you really believe that these legal subtleties could be brought to the consciousness of illiterate peasants? )))) I beg you, the commissars promised them land to the peasants and the factories to the workers, literally, otherwise the people would not have followed them.
                    15. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 14 December 2020 07: 08
                      -1
                      there were no legal subtleties then, there was war, politics, comrade Mauser, the task of surviving, Marx's theory, faith in science and the desire to live in peace
                    16. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 14 December 2020 19: 15
                      -1
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      there were no legal subtleties then, there was war, politics, comrade Mauser,

                      That is, as you have already been told
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Do you really believe that these legal subtleties could be brought to the consciousness of illiterate peasants? )))) I beg you, the commissars promised them land to the peasants and the factories to the workers, literally, otherwise the people would not have followed them.
            2. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 13 December 2020 21: 45
              +2
              Quote: lucul
              And only later, when in 1945 ours entered Germany and had the opportunity to compare the standard of living, they realized where they had lived for the last 30 years.

              we even entered Berlin under communism, but what is better than 30 years of capitalism?
            3. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 14 December 2020 15: 01
              +2
              Quote: lucul
              Do you really believe that these legal subtleties could be brought to the consciousness of illiterate peasants?

              "The right to private ownership of land is canceled forever" - in your opinion, a legal subtlety accessible to the consciousness of a few? Don't think people are stupider than yourself. No, I do not believe that these "subtleties could have been brought to the consciousness of illiterate peasants." I KNOW that all these "subtleties" were demanded by the peasants themselves in instructions to the deputies of the State Duma. And in the summer and autumn of 1917, these illiterate peasants quite competently carried out the "black redistribution" of the land, which the Bolsheviks only legalized.
              As for European integration, it has been known for so long that education (especially "education") does not guarantee intelligence and the ability to think sensibly. Likewise, illiteracy does not mean a lack of common sense and real knowledge of life.
              Quote: lucul
              The land was taken away? Taken away (from the peasants who bought it)

              Yes, they did. Peasants from the landlords. With your power, without waiting for permission from above. With livestock and equipment. And from the peasants they could take away from the kulaks - and again the peasants took it away. Both literate and not.
              And you did not answer - why did the Reds get the support of the peasants - because they took everything from them, and then promised something? laughing
              Quote: lucul
              And only later, when in 1945 ours entered Germany and had the opportunity to compare the standard of living, they realized where they had lived for the last 30 years.

              That's for sure! Especially those who lived (and not just visited) in Europe as a prisoner or ostarbeiter.
              “Most of those who previously treated the Soviet government negatively and scolded it for nothing, now became ardent supporters and recalled life in the Soviet Union with a kind word. Later, finding myself in a foreign land, I noticed that many, willingly or unwillingly, comparing life for abroad with life in the Soviet Union, become propagandists of the ideas of socialism, praising (sometimes sinning against the truth) the laws, orders, life itself existing in the Soviet Union, raising the prestige of our country in the eyes of foreigners. And I have sinned a lot: I often praised the fact that did not deserve praise. However, some of what we saw abroad was worse than ours, and we simply did not have some of the bad things there "(A. Gulin)
            4. lucul
              lucul 14 December 2020 16: 23
              -2
              Yes, they did. Peasants from the landlords. By his power, not waiting for permission from above. With cattle and equipment. And from the peasants they could take away from the kulaks - and again the peasants took away... Both literate and not.

              Which fists? Fists appeared during the Soviet era. They took it away from the peasants, who were still able to ransom from the landlord and buy their own allotment of land and lived in abundance. And they were already decently from 1863 to 1917. After all, according to yours:
              I KNOW that all these "subtleties" were demanded by the peasants themselves in the instructions to the deputies of the State Duma. And in the summer and autumn of 1917, these illiterate peasants quite competently carried out the "black redistribution" of the land, which the Bolsheviks only legalized.

              And now I am translating from your language into Russian - black redistribution - this is called robbing the loot, there is no need to know any legal subtleties here - the peasants just understand the slogan - rob the gentlemen in any country.
              And you did not answer - why did the Reds get the support of the peasants - because they took everything from them, and then promised something?

              Are you doing sophistry with me? It was at first that they promised - and then they took everything away, didn't they?
            5. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 14 December 2020 19: 26
              +2
              Quote: lucul
              the peasants understand simply the slogan-robbing gentlemen in any country.

              in 1926, peasants in Russia lived exclusively on subsistence farming. Barefoot and in bast shoes is the norm. Devastation, famine ... in 1933 electrification was carried out in the country, there is heavy industry, construction projects all over the country. Not a single photo is older than 1933, except for the military, there are no barefoot and bast shoes !!! only thanks to the transition to public ownership was such a speed of development possible. I think this is justified. The interests of society are above personal.
            6. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 05: 48
              +1
              Quote: lucul
              Which fists? Fists appeared during the Soviet era.

              Yeah, but Dal, Engelgardt, Semenova Tyan-Shanskaya and others collaborated in Soviet agitprop. IGNORANCE!
              Quote: lucul
              just a slogan - peasants understand the robbery of gentlemen in any country

              And "The right to private ownership of land is canceled forever" beyond their understanding? fool And they carried out the "black redistribution" how - did they take the land for themselves as PRIVATE property or in some other way?
              Quote: lucul
              It was at first that they promised - and then they took everything away, didn't they?

              In your words, the cause of the civil war is "Taking away EVERYTHING personally acquired into public property", "Was the land taken away? Was it taken away (from the peasants who bought it), Was it taken away from the cattle?"
              And the Reds allegedly won because they promised "the property". So what happened first and then what? Tangled up in lies?
            7. lucul
              lucul 15 December 2020 12: 50
              -4
              In your words, the cause of the civil war is "Taking away EVERYTHING personally acquired into public property", "Was the land taken away? Was it taken away (from the peasants who bought it), Was it taken away from the cattle?"
              And the Reds allegedly won because they promised "the property". So what happened first and then what?

              I generally cannot understand how an adult does not understand the obvious things))))
              On your fingers, if it's so difficult for you - whites (aristocrats and peasants / workers) fought for their property, their material values, which were taken from them by the red ones ..
              Red peasants / workers fought for the land and factories that the commissars had promised them after the victory over the whites.
              What can be incomprehensible here ????????????
              And a simple question, if in your opinion

              "The right to private ownership of land is canceled forever;
              land can neither be sold, nor bought, nor leased to
              the lease is either pledged or in any other way alienated.
              All land: state, specific, cabinet, monastery,
              church, sessional, majorate, private ownership,
              public and peasant, etc., is alienated free of charge,
              turns into the public domain and passes into the use of all
              working on it.

              Where he was, in this place saw the peasant / worker. All property went to the state, and where is its place? Spent on the state as on a landowner? What notorious freedoms did the peasant receive after the revolution? In what year did they start issuing passports to peasants? In 1974? It was especially beautiful in 1991, when all labor savings on savings books were simply reset to zero.
            8. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 15: 21
              +1
              Quote: lucul
              I can't understand at all how an adult doesn't understand the obvious things

              It is even less clear why an adult is confused about his own statements. Now about Thomas, now about Eremu.
              Quote: lucul
              whites (aristocrats and peasants / workers) fought for their property, their material values, which were taken from them by the reds ..
              Red peasants / workers fought for the land and factories that the commissars had promised them after the victory over the whites.
              What can be incomprehensible here ????????????

              The most important thing that is clear here is that this is nonsense. Did the red peasants / workers take from whom - from themselves? Hoping that later the commissioners will give them something. And those whites who fought for Soviet power and socialism, who DO NOT allow private ownership of the same land - they fought for mate. values. Rave!
              Why the peasants ended up supporting the Reds was explained by a participant in the events:
              "The communists beat us clean, they didn't leave a grain. All the work is like a cow with the tongue. They just put me in a unit with the officers, and that night, I heard one prayer from them, to the people of the whip until subjugation. I escaped from the volunteers, entered the bandits . Yes, painfully tired of the will, I can't wait: at the crossroads to meet comrades again "(S. 3. Fedorchenko). This is where the peasant "saw himself."
              Quote: lucul
              What notorious freedoms did the peasant receive after the revolution?

              Specific peasants say this:
              “Maybe not everything turned out the way the Bolsheviks intended before the revolution, and after 1917 - the Soviet government of V. I. Lenin, but in the 20s and 30s Russia was transformed beyond recognition for the better.
              Now I think: how would the fate of the pupils and subsequent heirs of this family have developed without the October Revolution and Soviet power? Yes, so everyone would have lived in Shchelkanovo, splitting up the parental arable land, cattle, inventory and obtaining food by unhumanly hard efforts. Our whole life would be determined by one question: how to feed ourselves from harvest to harvest?
              Only under Soviet rule did we feel independent from the land allotment, from the vagaries of the weather, from the endurance of a horse, from the age of a cow, from the compliance of a forester when preparing firewood, from a lack of money for taxes to the royal treasury "(http://www.proza.ru / 2014/11/30/760)
              There are statements by other peasants who have become big and very big bosses thanks to the revolution.
              Quote: lucul
              In what year did they start issuing passports to peasants? In 1974?

              Probably. Those who lived in the villages. And millions of those who had previously left for the city (thanks to collectivization) received their passports earlier.
              And 1991 is already capitalism. In all its glory.
            9. lucul
              lucul 15 December 2020 15: 37
              -4
              The most important thing that is clear here is that this is nonsense. Did the red peasants / workers take from whom - from themselves?

              How long can you walk in a circle?
              They took away from white workers and peasants. I see in your head the simple idea that the workers and peasants also fought against the Reds does not fit at all. That's what the civil war is for.
              Hoping that later the commissioners will give them something

              Read the Land Decree
              And those whites who fought for Soviet power and socialism, who DO NOT allow private ownership of the same land - they fought for mate. values. Rave!

              Of course, nonsense - because those whites who went over to the side of the Reds - were already fighting for the country of Russia / USSR, and not for their property, which they themselves said.
            10. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 15: 51
              0
              Quote: lucul
              How long can you walk in a circle?

              I don't know why you are doing this.
              Quote: lucul
              Taken from white workers and peasants

              More news! Either people went white because they were taken away from them, now they were taken away from them because they are white. You will determine what was the cause and what was the effect. laughing Whites, by the way, robbed people much more, incl. took away the LAND from the peasants. Therefore, these latter have made their choice.
              Quote: lucul
              the simple idea that the workers and peasants also fought against the

              Look, but you don't see. I can tell you a lot about this.
              Quote: lucul
              because those whites who went over to the side of the reds were already fighting for Russia, and not for their property

              Who went to the red - this is one thing, I'm talking about fighting for socialism in the ranks of the whites. Do you know what happened and what?
            11. lucul
              lucul 15 December 2020 17: 48
              -4
              More news! Either people went white because they were taken away from them, now they were taken away from them because they are white. You will determine what was the cause and what was the effect.

              Water, water ... so what about the land decree, what did he promise the peasants? )))
            12. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 16 December 2020 03: 52
              +2
              It is known that it was created according to the requirements of the peasants. And immediately brought to life.
            13. lucul
              lucul 16 December 2020 07: 05
              -3
              It is known that it was created according to the requirements of the peasants. And immediately brought to life.

              And what does it say about the land to the peasants? ))))
            14. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 16 December 2020 07: 18
              +1
              That she gives herself to them. More precisely - to those who process it.
            15. lucul
              lucul 16 December 2020 07: 20
              -3
              That she gives herself to them. More precisely - to those who process it.

              And what do you legally mean by the term "given"?
              Under feudalism, the land was also "given" to the vassal.
            16. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 16 December 2020 13: 06
              0
              Quote: lucul
              what do you legally mean by the term "is given

              The same as what the peasants themselves meant when they sought the land. With the prohibition of private ownership of it.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 16: 34
    +1
    Evaluate the conclusion of a competent contemporary: "" Most of our nobles are a bunch of degenerates who, apart from their personal interests and the satisfaction of personal lusts, do not recognize anything, and therefore direct all their efforts to obtain certain favors at the expense of the people's money exacted from the impoverished of the Russian people for the public good, and not for the personal interests of these degenerate nobles ...
    At the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century, it is impossible to pursue a policy of the Middle Ages, when the people become, at least in part, conscious, it is impossible to pursue a policy of unfair promotion of a privileged minority at the expense of the majority.
    The rulers who do not understand this are preparing a revolution, which explodes at the first opportunity.
    Our entire revolution occurred because the rulers did not understand and do not understand the truth that society, the people move. The government is obliged to regulate this movement and keep it on the banks, and if it does not do this, but directly rudely blocks the path, then a revolutionary deluge occurs ... ”(S.Yu. Witte).
  • www3
    www3 22 February 2021 23: 42
    0
    The civil war in Russia lasted from November 1917 to March 1918 !!!!!
    And what began after and lasted until 1922 is called INTERVENTION !!!!
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 13 December 2020 11: 08
    -23%
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    And why did contemporaries hate "this" country so much?

    They loved her passionately - after meeting a real murl next, yes.

    here is the opinion red partisan. 1932 year
    Verkhneudinsky region. "Would rather be a war, Would go to the partisan, just not the way we did the partisans, but to the OTHER side. They strangled the peasants ”(Rakov, former partisan, middle peasant).

    “They tell us to go to fight, nowadays there are no fools to defend the sovereignty... The war would rather start, and then we will see who we are with ”(Markov Innokenty, former partisan).

    ", well, fuck them with sovereign power, again we need to take rifles and oppose the government, already tired of enduring, it has become unbearable ”(former Red Guerrilla Popov, b / p, middle peasant).

    Akbulak district. “There is no bread, we are starving, and we are forced to build unrealizable socialism. Rather, war, we red partisans, nhaving received rifles, they would have seen with whom to fight and whom to protect. "

    Ayrtavsky district. “This is what the Soviet regime brought us to. We, collective farmers, eat quinoa and eat all sorts of surrogates. Currently everyone is against the sovereign power... The war will start, all the red partisans, as one, will go against the deceiving Bolsheviks, because we all learned what the power of the Soviets is - in robbery and violence "
    USSR

    Voznesensky district. Many villagers are starving, people are hostile to the Soviet government, in case of war I, like a red partisan, will not go to the defense of the soviet power. "


    Zyryanovskiy district “It is enough that once we have won on our own neck; now we sit naked and hungry. If only the war began, the Bolsheviks will no longer have to go out on our necks. "


    “This is what the communists have sunk to, boasting about their achievements, but in fact there is nothing, there is no bread, here I am - partisans are sitting without bread hungry, but they do not pay attention to me, and such, like me, a lot, at least take your picks and start fighting again " (statement of the former partisan Kolodchikov, b / p, middle peasant, at a meeting with [spruce] - with [council]).

    VSC

    Nizhneudinsky region. “The question is, why did we conquer sovereignty ?! We have to go partisan again - earlier against Kolchak, and now we must go against the communists " (Myachnikov Miney, former partisan).

    North [ero] -Baikalsky region. we will avenge the Soviet government for this " (Alekseev, former partisan).

    )
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    "Individual dumbass"

    Dumb. incl. Slashew, turned out to be and admitted to this by others (see above)
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    However, he did not!

    therefore hastily and committed a heinous hasty night murder. like cowardly killers. so as not to
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 11: 42
      +7
      And here is the Siberian uprising (my big print):
      ““ Decided: “To declare widely to the population that the ongoing struggle is being waged only against communism, and not against Soviet power” (From the minutes of the meeting of the provisional Kolyvan district executive committee. July 8, 1920);
      “The officers from the very first days of the uprising dressed up in shoulder straps, and the uprising itself proceeded under the white flag (red flags were torn), which in a SIGNIFICANT DEGREE CUT OFF our middle peasants and the poor” (“The Case of the Revolution” Novonikolaevsk July 16, 1920)
      “Being purely monarchist in its composition, the officer organization DO NOT DROP THE CERTAIN SLOGONS UNTIL REBELLING, conducting general corrupting work ... At the beginning of the uprising, the slogan“ Beat the Communists, the Jews ”was thrown. White flags were thrown. Among the intelligentsia ... and the kulak part of the village, campaigning was still underway on July 6 under the slogan "For Tsar Mikhail, for a united Russia led by the monarch." Subsequently (July 8), taking into account the mood of the rebellious peasant masses, resulting in a clear hostility as to a white flag, as well as to conversations about Michael, the rebel core ... widely cast the slogan "For Soviet power without communists." Attempts, by the way unsuccessful, are characteristic, both in kulak groups and in the masses to popularize the slogan “For the Constituent Assembly, for the buffer from sea to sea.
      The middle peasants, dissatisfied with the breakdown (and) of labor service, in their mass, thanks to the skillful agitation of the kulaks and the White Guards, at first willingly went to the uprising with their slogans - to beat the communists, to restore Soviet power. But as soon as they came into contact with the core of the rebels in large numbers, they got acquainted with their secret plans, as soon as the red flags were removed, the white flags were thrown out, the peasants tore off the white flags in some places and hung out the red ones, declaring that they only needed Soviet power ... When we attack Kolyvan red flags fluttered in the trenches of the peasants, as it later turned out to be a protest against the white flags of the leaders.
      Both the White Guard monarchist and the Socialist-Revolutionary slogans enjoyed absolutely no success and popularity. The reaction among the insurgents came on the second or third day of the uprising, in some places reaching the level of active actions against the leaders of the uprising "(From the report of the administration department of the Novonikolaevsky district executive committee on August 11, 1920)"
      So are these red partisans. Conversations are conversations, but it would come to the point - in a stroke, Soviet power would be better than any other ... Checked!
      Quote: Olgovich
      Dumb. incl. slashew, turned out to be and admitted it to others

      Yes, there really were a lot of them in whites.
      Quote: Olgovich
      therefore hastily and committed a heinous hasty night murder. like cowardly killers. so as not to

      The killed could become even more likely than the living. But he didn't! On the anniversary of his death in Omsk, only a few came to the memorial service for him ...
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 13 December 2020 14: 31
        -19%
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        6 July 1920)

        if it didn’t come from the first try, then I will repeat the statements of the red partisans made by them after it came to them that they had fought on their own heads by 1932:

        ", well, fuck them with sovereign power, again we need to take rifles and oppose the government, already tired of enduring, it has become unbearable ”(former red [asny] partisan Popov, b / p, middle peasant).

        nowadays there are no fools to defend the sovereign power. The war would rather start

        If only the war starts the Bolsheviks will no longer have to leave on our neck. ”

        Would rather war, go partisan, just not the way we partisan, but in the OTHER direction.
        look at the communist Ismat, there are many DOCUMENTS

        .
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        there were indeed a suspiciously many of them in whites.



        Stupid people brought the country to the collapse of 1991, wild ruin and the Russian Cross, to coupons for cowards, first places in the world for alcoholics, tebils, divorces, abortions and suicides

        This was not the case with White.
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        The killed could become even more likely than the living.

        no.
        and we are already honored by the people more than the barren unfortunate Karl
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 15: 20
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          by 1932:

          I saw it. And he said about it. A few years later they probably changed their tone, but in the 1940s it turned out that no one could be better than a native party ... good
          Quote: Olgovich
          This was not the case with White.

          Yes. It was incomparably worse with White.
          Quote: Olgovich
          no.

          Yes.
          Quote: Olgovich
          and we are already honored by the people more than the barren unfortunate Karl

          No.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 13 December 2020 21: 35
            -8
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            I saw it. And he said about it. A few years later they probably changed their tone, but in the 1940s it turned out that no one could be better than a native party ...

            they changed not the tone, but the light, for another and not without the help of the narvlast
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Yes. It was incomparably worse with white

            the number of alcoholics, abortions, tebils (increased 11 times, hacked to death), divorces, suicides are all yours first place
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 14 December 2020 14: 16
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              they changed not the tone, but the light, for another and not without the help of the narvlast

              Most have changed their tone, some light and not without the help of their neighbors. The people of the same.
              Quote: Olgovich
              the number of alcoholics, abortions, tebils (increased 11 times, hack to death), divorces, suicides are all your first place

              And YOUR first place is the number of the dead.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 14 December 2020 15: 30
                -5
                Quote: Sahar Medovich
                And YOUR first place is the number of the dead.


                With the first places in the number of alcoholics, abortions, tebils (increased 11 times), divorces, suicides-you-nothing to object. That's it.

                With those hundreds of millions of dead from incl. hunger (over 10 million), abortion (200), wars, alcohol, so-called. "politicians", etc. "economies" with "demographics" are not comparable to China.

                And yes, in Russia the life expectancy today is such that your "power" never dreamed of EVER. Only in drunken dreams.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 14 December 2020 16: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  nothing to argue

                  Objections are unnecessary for notoriously unprovable.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  hundreds of millions of dead

                  Why not hundreds of thousands of millions? Surpass Petrov! fool
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  incl. hunger (over 10 million)

                  Those. more than half of those killed in the war? Do you even know what a million is? fool fool
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Only in drunken dreams.

                  More precisely in drunken nightmares. Only in them in the USSR could today's life be dreamed of.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 14 December 2020 16: 11
                    -3
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Why not hundreds of thousands of millions?

                    Only abortions -200 million! only in the 1930s - minus 18 million - Stalin's readings and the census of 37, etc.

                    too large numbers for a weak substance? And scary, yes ..
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Those. more than half of those killed in the war? Do you even know what a million is?

                    Yes, such a WAR swept through our country in the peaceful 1921,22, 24,25, 28,29,31,32,33,36,37,39,45,47, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX. Scary? Still would!
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Only in them in the USSR could today's life be imagined.

                    Yes, any of the wildest Africa seemed like a paradise compared to the national government in 1932-33 and many other years ...
                  2. Sugar Honeyovich
                    Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 05: 51
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    too large numbers for a weak substance? And scary, yes.

                    And to assign zeros to the right - it will be even more.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    any of the wildest Africa seemed like paradise compared to the national rule in 1932-33 and many other years ...

                    As for any Africa - who knows, but the USSR turned out to be a paradise in comparison with the Republic of Ingushetia, and now - in comparison with the Russian Federation. What are they? Compared to Africa ... laughing
                  3. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 15 December 2020 11: 28
                    -3
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    And to assign zeros to the right - it will be even more.

                    Zeros are documented.
                    You have zero for the soul.
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    As for any Africa - who knows, but the USSR turned out to be a paradise in comparison with the Republic of Ingushetia,

                    It is a pity that you did not get to this "paradise" in the peaceful, but with starvation deaths 1921,22, 24,25, 28,29,31,32,33,36,37,39,45,47, 1951,52,53, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX g, yes and in XNUMX hungry years
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    now - in comparison with the RF.

                    Up to RF standards for life expectancy, infant mortality, the provision of housing (10m2 more per person) with goods, freedom and the past, just cry from powerlessness ...
                  4. Sugar Honeyovich
                    Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 14: 49
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Zeros are documented.

                    Which are often themselves - zeros. Or below.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    It is a pity that you did not get to this "paradise"

                    Yes, it is a pity. But what a blessing that I didn't get there in 1913 and before him!
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Before the standards of the Russian Federation for life expectancy, infant mortality, for the provision of housing (10m2 more per person) with goods, for freedom and the past, only cry from impotence.

                    That's it. Because of the loss of the USSR - a lost paradise.
                  5. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 15 December 2020 15: 49
                    0
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Which are often themselves - zeros.


                    Only ZEROs
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Yes, it is a pity. But what a blessing that I didn't get there in 1913 and before him!

                    It would have been necessary, first in 1933, to the Ukraine, with little human flesh, and then to the pies with meat and fish in 1913. Although no, they did not deserve it: in the 33rd-forever
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    That's it. Because of the loss of the USSR - a lost paradise.

                    Didn't get it, as always?
                    I repeat: Up to the standards of the Russian Federation in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality, the provision of housing (10m2 more per person) with goods, for freedom and so on, you just cry from powerlessness ...
                  6. Sugar Honeyovich
                    Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 16: 04
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Only ZEROs

                    Exactly.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    at 33m - forever

                    No, constancy is tiring. Then - in 1934, 35, etc. But 1913 ... there it, there it!
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Didn't get it, as always?
                    I repeat: Up to the standards of the Russian Federation in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality, the provision of housing (10m2 more per person) with goods, for freedom and so on, you just cry from powerlessness ...

                    I realized that it didn't reach you. I repeat - yes, NOW all that remains is to cry. Like Adam and Eve after. yes
        2. Jünger
          Jünger 14 December 2020 19: 49
          -3
          Mr. Olgovich expounds everything correctly. You have nothing to cover, comrade wink
          Place of the Reds in the dustbin of history.
        3. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 05: 52
          0
          Expresses - yes, right. Only he lies a lot.
  • lucul
    lucul 15 December 2020 15: 44
    -3
    At the beginning of the uprising, the slogan "Beat the Communists, Jews" was thrown. White flags were thrown.

    So why were there so many of them among the communists?
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 15 December 2020 15: 57
      +2
      Who are "them"?
      1. lucul
        lucul 15 December 2020 17: 50
        -4
        Who are "them"?

        Who is there ? ))))
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 13 December 2020 10: 05
    +16
    Quote: Olgovich
    The Emperor gave Russia the first Constitution and freedom,

    You call this the Manifesto of October 17, 1905 the Constitution? lol Olgovich, tell me (even if I forgot) he himself gave this "Constitution", out of great love for freedom and democracy, or who helped him? For example, crowds of revolutionaries dissatisfied with something, running around the squares and streets of the Republic of Ingushetia.
    Quote: Olgovich
    stopped the most terrible invasion of foreigners in the history of Russia

    The Tsar was very talented and heroic! And what a commander! Straight Hanibal and Julius Caesar, in one bottle! First he tore the cunning Japs, then he repelled the terrible Germans ... Talent!
    Quote: Olgovich
    and ensured the victory over them, which is recognized at Versailles 1919.

    What a fine fellow! Not only every former monarch with a bullet in his head can win a war. Few can do this ... No wonder he was appointed saints!
    Quote: Olgovich
    Nikolai's Russia is a country of FREEDOM - elections, parties, words, thoughts, processions, movement, work, entrepreneurship and initiative,

    You forgot to include the homeland of elephants on this glorious list. hi
    1. lucul
      lucul 13 December 2020 10: 25
      -9
      For example, crowds of revolutionaries dissatisfied with something running around the squares and streets of the Republic of Ingushetia.

      Aha, but only Russians attempted to assassinate Stolypin, as well as Lenin?
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 13 December 2020 10: 36
        +9
        Quote: lucul
        Aha, and Stolypin, as well as Lenin, were exclusively Russians attempted to kill?

        Both were attacked by members of the Socialist-Revolutionary Party. And you, naively, thought that this was the work of the Bund?
        1. lucul
          lucul 13 December 2020 10: 45
          -12%
          Both were attacked by members of the Socialist-Revolutionary Party.

          Oh, how streamlined)))) And who were they by nationality?
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 13 December 2020 11: 29
            +6
            And what are you so persistently interested in for nationality? Is there a constant lack of water in your tap? And against this background, you are irresistibly drawn to "beat and save"?
            1. lucul
              lucul 13 December 2020 11: 32
              -10%
              And what are you so persistently interested in for nationality? Do you have a constant lack of water in the tap? And against this background you are irresistibly drawn to "beat and sapasat"?

              Just for comparison - if in the Ottoman Empire in 1911, the Armenians would shoot first the Grand Vizier, and then the Sultan himself, then what would the Turks do with them?
              And here in Russia, right away:
              And what are you so persistently interested in for nationality? Do you have a constant lack of water in the tap? And against this background you are irresistibly drawn to "beat and sapasat"?
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 13 December 2020 12: 57
                +6
                Quote: lucul
                Just for comparison - if in the Ottoman Empire in 1911, the Armenians would shoot first the Grand Vizier, and then the Sultan himself, then what would the Turks do with them?

                The analogy would be true if the Bund was behind the attacks. And the Socialist-Revolutionaries, unlike the Bund, were a multinational party and had a goal not at all to fight for the freedom of the Jewish people from Russian tyranny. Therefore, in this case, it would be more correct to ask the question: "If in the Ottoman, suddenly, a party started up, which, with the help of openly terrorist methods, fights against" damned sultanism ", for the happiness of the entire Turkish people in general and Turkish peasants, in particular , what would the Turks do with them? "
                As for the ethnic composition of the terrorists, the picture, in general terms, would be as follows: First, the Turks counterfeited the Minister of Internal Affairs, then the Turks, the officer planned to kill the Sultan's teacher, but it did not work out. Further: three Turks and an Armenian kill another Minister of Internal Affairs, then two Turks kill Sultan's uncle, then a Greek throws a bomb at the Anatolian mayor, then three Turks blow up the house of the Grand Vizier and only, some time later, an Amyan finally kills this vizier ...
                I wonder: what the Sultan, in this situation, should have done with the Armenians? I would very much like, dear Luculus, to know your meie.
                1. lucul
                  lucul 13 December 2020 20: 22
                  -3
                  I wonder: what the Sultan, in this situation, should have done with the Armenians? I would very much like, dear Luculus, to know your meie.

                  I will say that I come across sophistry all the time, and I try to look at the facts. And the facts are as follows - in 1905, during the failed revolution in Minsk, during the dispersal of the demonstration, the gendarmes used firearms, as a result of which 102 people died, of which only 2 people were Belarusians, the rest were all God's chosen ones.
                  That's why they didn't sit at home then, eh? Russia gave them shelter, gave them the opportunity to live fearlessly when they were expelled from all European countries. And they repaid with what?
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 13 December 2020 21: 46
                    +3
                    Quote: lucul
                    I will say that I come across sophistry all the time

                    And where is sophistry? You yourself suggested, as an analogy:
                    Quote: lucul
                    Just for comparison - if in the Ottoman Empire in 1911, the Armenians would shoot first the Grand Vizier, and then the Sultan himself, then what would the Turks do with them?

                    So I tried, as best I could, to transfer the "exploits" of the Fighting Organization of the Socialists of the Revolutionaries and the "exploits" of the Socialist Revolutionaries of the maximalists, including the ethnicity of the direct performers, to Turkish soil.
                    But you, apparently, are so wrapped up in "beat and save" that thoughts are more difficult than: "[God's chosen] are to blame for everything!" no longer penetrate your brain.
                    For this I take my leave, because communication with the Nazis (no matter whether German, Ukrainian, Jewish, or even Russian), personally to me, does not give any pleasure, because of their fanaticism and hopeless stupidity. hi

                    Shl. I want to warn you: If you, on the screen, suddenly water appears ... Do not try to drink! This is a setup! laughing
                    1. lucul
                      lucul 14 December 2020 11: 40
                      -5
                      Shl. I want to warn you: If you, on the screen, suddenly water appears ... Do not try to drink! This is a setup

                      Instead of a thousand words - the famous call from Kolomoisky to Tsarev.

                  2. kamakama
                    kamakama 14 December 2020 11: 30
                    +1
                    So, let's go:
                    0) Jews ended up in Ingushetia against their will in the bulk, but as part of the population of divided Poland. Nobody let them in or invited them on purpose, with very rare exceptions.
                    1) Minsk is a city within the Pale of Settlement. That is, in the rest of the empire east of Minsk, there were simply stupidly fewer Jews (up to 0 in rural areas, in cities, merchants, doctors, jewelers and other workshop professions were allowed), by law. Most of the poorly educated Jewish youth lived within the Pale
                    2) The Jews, according to the law on the Pale of Settlement, were also prohibited or limited a lot of things - to own land, study at the university, serve in the army. There were not so many prospects in life, and for many, the solution was hired labor in those very factories in the Pale of Settlement. Thus, we have the fact that among the EMPLOYED WORKERS in Minsk and to the west, the proportion of Jews was higher than other nationalities simply as a result of state policy
                    3) It is logical that in a conflict for professional (and not ethnic or religious) rights, WORKERS had to speak out. And what their ethnic composition was is a secondary matter.
                    1. lucul
                      lucul 14 December 2020 11: 44
                      -5
                      Jews, according to the law on the Pale of Settlement, were also prohibited or limited to many things.

                      Laughter - just look at their numbers in 1792 and 1991 - they were so oppressed, so oppressed, that even the Chinese have increased their numbers less (in percentage terms) during this time.
                      Jews ended up in Ingushetia against their will in the bulk, but as part of the population of divided Poland. Nobody let them in or invited them on purpose, with very rare exceptions.

                      But after all, they could have not been allowed into the country at all when Poland was annexed - but they did.
                    2. kamakama
                      kamakama 14 December 2020 11: 58
                      +2
                      1) Read carefully the Law of Settlement (at different times there were different boundaries and requirements, as well as additional decrees). Everything is detailed there. No one forbade fertility and reproduction, contraception was then so-so. But the ownership of land (one of the main means of production) was limited. Whoever had money - he went to study (there were also problems with this, but relatively solvable) or to trade (there was also a property qualification for different guilds), who did not have - hello, native plant. A Belarusian peasant could calmly continue to cultivate the land of his fathers or leave for Siberia for a "Stolypin hectare" or go to a factory. The Jews (the poor) simply did not have such a choice
                      2) How so - "not to start up"? They already exist, they already live there, together with Lithuanians, Poles, Belarusians and Ukrainians. Arrange the world's first genocide centuries earlier than the 20th century?
                    3. lucul
                      lucul 14 December 2020 14: 16
                      -3
                      How so - "not to start up"? They already exist, they already live there, together with Lithuanians, Poles, Belarusians and Ukrainians. Arrange the world's first genocide centuries earlier than the 20th century?

                      Do not be ridiculous - how they were physically expelled from many countries of Europe / the world for centuries, what was that?
                      A Belarusian peasant could calmly continue to cultivate the land of his fathers or leave for Siberia for a "Stolypin hectare" or go to a factory. The Jews (the poor) simply did not have such a choice

                      The Belarusian peasant could not move anywhere at all until the abolition of serfdom, and after the abolition - more or less only in the 20th century. Jews, from 1792, could ANYWHERE and ANYWHERE to move within the Pale of Settlement. The size of the Pale of Settlement is from the borders of Germany (western Poland) and up to Vitebsk, and this is almost 1 km in a straight line and this is only from West to East, and from North to South even more, that is, this territory was so small, so it is not enough for them to be poor, that they were just suffocating in it. Yes, half of the countries of the world did not have such dimensions of habitation boundaries, but only dreamed about them, and did not groan about oppression.
                      No one forbade fertility and reproduction, contraception was then so-so.

                      If the people in the country are oppressed (occupation / yoke), they reproduce very little, reproduction is the first sign of the well-being of the population.
                    4. kamakama
                      kamakama 14 December 2020 15: 14
                      +2
                      1) To begin with, check out how and why they formed in such quantities within the borders of the Commonwealth a little earlier. Everything is somewhat more complicated than "how they were physically expelled from many countries of Europe / the world for centuries, what was that?"
                      2) The peasants had land and the right to cultivate it, even in serfdom. The Jews did not have it. The land at that time was valued as much higher than personal freedom. The earth could feed, and freedom was more of a burden. Yes, the Jews could move, BUT then what? It's like Ukraine now - visa-free travel has been granted, but you can't work legally. And what's the point of this?
                      3) Something refugees with Arabs are all on benefits while sitting, and bless you in the EU. We have all of Central Asia, but at least they work
                    5. lucul
                      lucul 14 December 2020 16: 37
                      -4
                      Yes, the Jews could move, BUT then what?

                      If everything was so bad, according to you, why didn't you immigrate to another country?
                      then what? It's like Ukraine now - visa-free travel has been granted, but you can't work legally.

                      And what prevented you from WORKING? To work exactly? The peasants cultivated the land, what prevented the Jews from doing handicrafts in the cities? Indeed, in Western Belarus it was so - Belarusians peasants lived in villages, and in many towns, the number of Jews reached 80% of the population. Why is such a life bad? After all, you lived in a foreign country for you, you were under the protection of the Russian Empire, no one threatened you - live in peace. But no - your religion puts you above all other peoples, and you did not want to live in peace. You wanted power and money, and for this they began to kill one king after another, until they came to power in 1917.
                      Warmed the snake on your chest.
                    6. kamakama
                      kamakama 14 December 2020 17: 28
                      +1
                      1) "But no - your religion puts you above all other nations, and you did not want to live in peace" - Who is this for you?
                      2) Immigrated, and it was. Usually within the framework of the World Zionist Congress to Palestine, but there were also immigrants to the United States and other countries. But this business is long, troublesome and, again, requires money, which not everyone has. The funny thing is that it was easier to travel outside the country than inside it.
                      3) Well, that's where they started - hired workers worked in factories and plants. In 1905, there were labor unrest throughout the country, and not only in Minsk. In other cities, the ethnic composition was different
                      4) I'm tired of explaining the specifics of the legislation of the Republic of Ingushetia. Read what craft workshops, townships, merchant guilds are. At least here https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditch_Neighborhood
      2. Jünger
        Jünger 14 December 2020 19: 50
        -3
        The SRs were multinational Jews, like the Bolsheviks.
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 14 December 2020 19: 58
          +1
          ABOUT! Another Russian Nazi drew! lol
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 14 December 2020 20: 02
            -5
            Well, obviously not national like you love
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 December 2020 11: 10
    +3
    ...... attempted by members of the Socialist Party. ....
    There were 11 attempts on Stolypin's life. I wonder if they are the only ones, or who else? Then I'm going to see
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 13 December 2020 11: 21
    -21%
    Quote: HanTengri
    anife

    for the tenth time I tell you: I DO NOT communicate with a lover of mat and other dirt. I DO NOT read you.

    For now, don't publicly apologize.

    do not bother how many times to repeat?
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 13 December 2020 10: 08
    +5
    What kind of banner would he become? -There is the same independence and a parade of sovereignties as in the 90s began, each field commander imagined himself to be supreme and everyone wished to seize and hold richer districts for themselves. Until the forester came and dispersed everyone.
  • BAI
    BAI 13 December 2020 19: 56
    +5
    Note the conclusion of the Government Commission on the basis of a genetic examination: "The remains found in Yekaterinburg are the remains of Nicholas II, members of his family and close people."

    Sheer nonsense. What was it compared to? There are 2 generally recognized sources of the Romanov genetic material. British royal family name and blood on a shirt in a museum in Japan. The British refused to submit their materials for examination. Only the Japanese remained. Where is the comparison with the Japanese shirt? They are not and never will be. Because when the wave of recognition of the found remains arose, of course, they compared it with Japan (they sent the samples there, the examination was done there). And what did the Japanese say? "The materials presented have nothing to do with biological marks on the shirt." They did not want to sacrifice their samurai honor and lie, but they could have squeezed out the Kurils for this. Therefore, with all the cries about genetic tests, nowhere are there references to the Japanese shirt, and the ROC, for all its duplicity and venality, did not recognize the remains of the Romanovskys found. And the so-called
    conclusion of the Government Commission
    - the opinion of political prostitutes has never been taken into account in science.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 14 December 2020 16: 32
    0
    And to eat and dress like our people in 1913
    My great-grandfather Ivan, even though I was little, told me how they "ate and dressed" in his years in grain Rostov. I threw out a hump of chickens, so he gave me such a reprimand ...
    1. Jünger
      Jünger 14 December 2020 19: 52
      -3
      Listen to how people lived in Leningrad in the early forties. You will not throw away the potato peelings either.
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 14 December 2020 19: 54
        0
        Again, he said that under the Union, ordinary people began to live better.
        1. Jünger
          Jünger 14 December 2020 19: 58
          -5
          It was non-Russian because. Non-Russians lived better under the Soviets. Or he didn't like to work.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 14 December 2020 20: 04
            +1
            From the village on the banks of the Don. He worked like (if he didn't have to go to war, he had time for the First, and the civil one, and he survived the Second, with a wound). After the war, the collective farms restored so many explosives in the fields that the tractor drivers went to plowing like an attack. Didn't seem to wear Paces yes He called himself Russian. Although, you know better good
            1. Jünger
              Jünger 14 December 2020 22: 25
              -5
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              Worked like

              That's exactly what it seems. He would work normally, he would have money and property. If I had them, I would not have joined the hicks and thieves. So, according to the laws of logic, it did not work.
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              Although, you know better

              Naturally, one of my grandfathers was a beggar - he loved to walk and drink. The Bolsheviks made him chairman. Another hard-working grandfather and a hero of the two worlds became a beggar collective farmer, who had to hand over all the cattle and real estate to a common boiler.
              So I know who the support of the Soviet workers' deputies is and who lived with them well. smile Either the nationalities or the bums.
              And then you choose yourself hi
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 14 December 2020 23: 44
                +2
                Would work fine
                Bla-arody, drove a tractor through a minefield? Have you suffered from anything other than sperm toxicosis laughing ? Have you ever wondered that it is precisely such under-white officers like you who discredit Russian nationalism?
                1. Jünger
                  Jünger 15 December 2020 08: 19
                  -7
                  Here, if he had not sold Rasey to Jews and Caucasians, he would have traveled on the autobahns in the latest model Russo-Balt. And traitors are only allowed into the minefield.
                  You, comrade, it seems to me, according to family custom, you often sip too much and write here in this state. This is not very correct.
                  1. Bolt cutter
                    Bolt cutter 15 December 2020 12: 15
                    0
                    Your blah-arody, Russo-Balt was founded by non-Russians.
                    would drive on the autobahns on the latest model Russo-Balt.
                    often sip too much and in this state write here
                    You are clearly in the image and likeness of your white-officer idols under the Colombian local anesthetic.
  • Deniska999
    Deniska999 13 December 2020 08: 27
    +2
    What to regret now. A whole century has passed, we live in a different world. Therefore, all the arguments are not worth a damn.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 13 December 2020 10: 05
      0
      The Naglo-Saxons are either silent about their skeletons, or they speak sooooo quietly and carefully and very rarely. What by the way does not corrode society as a whole is that only our ponies run around in circles on old themes endlessly and without results, but the circus with horses turns out to be fun and, in general, contributes to the separation of the nation into specks of dust. It's a pity that there is no one to put an end to this.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 13 December 2020 09: 00
    -1
    The article is not that illiterate, but a frankly stupid article.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 13 December 2020 09: 11
    +10
    We would like to save, we saved ... We would like to shelter, we would shelter ... It turned out that Nicholas II and his family turned out to be of no use to anyone, from the word at all ...
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 13 December 2020 09: 15
      -5
      Around treason, cowardice and deceit.
    2. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 11: 02
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      We would like to save, we saved

      "In 1951, Nikolai Vladimirovich Voronovich came to New York from Germany. Voronovich is a military man with a colorful biography. In the past, he was a chamber-page widow of Empress Maria Feodorovna ...
      And somehow, on 113th Street in New York, N.V. told me a story that I didn't really believe at first. Voronovich said that when the sovereign and his family were sent from Tsarskoe to Tobolsk, a group of officers was formed in Petrograd, setting the task of organizing the escape of the royal family from Tobolsk. Voronovich had a connection with this group. And he told me that in order to prepare the escape of the sovereign with his family, he (Voronovich) transferred to this group of officers two million rubles, which he (Voronovich) received from AF Kerensky from “secret funds”.
      Somewhat stunned by the story, I asked Nikolai Vladimirovich: "Well, why did this attempt fail?" - “Why? Because the officers stole the money and drank it off. ” (R.B. Gul).
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 13 December 2020 09: 13
    -8
    The author is not ashamed to write this? And it turns out that almost Nikolai shot himself. There are specific names, surnames and orders. The shooting of a family and minor children looks like ordinary revenge and is a crime of the Soviet regime. Nikolai accomplished a lot. But to determine the degree of his guilt and punishment for this, there is a court.
    1. apro
      apro 13 December 2020 09: 26
      +6
      Quote: Moskovit
      is a crime of the Soviet regime.

      How is this confirmed ???
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 13 December 2020 10: 00
        -7
        And then the Central Executive Committee. Do you think it's not a crime to shoot women and children without trial?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 13 December 2020 10: 30
          +9
          In July 1918, the Ural Bolsheviks tried to get the center's sanction to shoot the family, but they were refused: “In mid-July 1918, Philip Goloshchekin returned from Moscow: he could not get a sanction for the execution of the Romanovs. The All-Russian Central Executive Committee intended, saving the life of the former tsar, to arrange an open nation-wide court. "
          In connection with the threat of the capture of Yekaterinburg by the forces of Kolchak and the White Czechs, the Uralsovet, "despite Goloshchekin's report on the invariability of Lenin's intentions in relation to the Romanovs," adopted a closed decision to execute the entire royal family.
    2. evgen1221
      evgen1221 13 December 2020 10: 00
      +2
      In the name of the revolution and in connection with the aggravating situation around the city of Yekaterinburg, I decree the city's garrison, and further ..... bring the order to execution and report. He was too burdensome in the city to continue to tinker with him, in the city for sure (this is inaccurate) few people knew about their place of imprisonment, when they left there was a lot of fuss with them and there were no resources for them and it was troublesome. And further, he is already a suitcase without a handle, well, they would have transported him somewhere else, and what would he be more useful from this? So they slapped, it became less. It was impossible to use it as a family of one figs, and to retrain for something too.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 13 December 2020 10: 05
        +3
        The main thing is that he was not a king. I quit. All. Citizen.
        The archives are still not open about this.
    3. parusnik
      parusnik 13 December 2020 10: 25
      +6
      A big political mistake of the local Council, which, by the way, was heterogeneous - Bolsheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries. It was necessary to leave Nikolai, Kolchak. The civil war ended faster in Siberia. And Nicholas would have been killed anyway.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 13 December 2020 11: 14
        +1
        Quote: parusnik
        A big political mistake of the local Council, which, by the way, was heterogeneous - Bolsheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries. It was necessary to leave Nikolai, Kolchak. The civil war ended faster in Siberia. And Nicholas would have been killed anyway.

        The other is seen at a distance. request it's like that.
    4. lucul
      lucul 13 December 2020 10: 26
      -8
      The author is not ashamed to write this? And it turns out that almost Nikolai shot himself. There are specific names, surnames and orders.

      Yeah, and under the article just a census of Russophobes, like kites flocked.
    5. bk0010
      bk0010 13 December 2020 14: 25
      +1
      Quote: Moskovit
      and is a crime of the Soviet regime.
      This is a private initiative. Lenin tried to sell the tsar to someone (he needed currency), but no one wanted to take him for free. Sverdlov received an order from the USA for the tsar (revenge for the non-admission of some Jewish banking house from the states to Baku oil, I don’t remember exactly which one), he gave an order to his people, and the tsar and his family were resolved. Lenin found out about this and said that to hell with him.
    6. BAI
      BAI 13 December 2020 20: 03
      0
      The shooting of a family and minor children looks like ordinary revenge and is a crime of the Soviet regime.

      This is not revenge, nor is it a crime. This is the inevitable logic of events. Always and everywhere, the overthrown monarchs and their relatives were physically destroyed so that they would not become the banner of a civil war aimed at overthrowing the new government. This is a historical inevitability and necessity. He called himself a monarch - prepare for the physical destruction of both your own and your family, in case of loss of power. Nicholas II was simply not smart enough to understand this, otherwise he would have held on to power to the last - after all, die anyway.
      1. tasha
        tasha 13 December 2020 20: 29
        +2
        Always and everywhere overthrown monarchs and their relatives were physically destroyed

        After the First World War, 4 empires collapsed - Russian, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman and German. But for some reason, only the Romanov dynasty was physically exterminated ...
        The author of this article convincingly, in my opinion, writes that Nicholas II as a banner and symbol was not interesting to anyone.

        "European history, in addition to the murder of the royal family, knows two more murders of monarchs that occurred as a result of the revolutions - the execution of Charles I in 1649 and Louis XVI in 1793. Both executed monarchs were deprived of their lives by court order"
        1. kamakama
          kamakama 14 December 2020 12: 21
          +1
          I think that had it not been for the Civil War, the Romanovs (only Nicholas or the whole family - a question) would have also been put on trial. Well, so - just out of luck. There is a very close ideologically moment in the history of our country - the murder by the guards of John Antonovich of Barunschweig (aka Ivan VI) in the Shliselburg fortress while trying to liberate him. And here and there:
          1) Very imaginary real rights to the throne. But the main thing is to play it safe
          2) Murder with a real threat of release from prison. Moreover, it is not a fact that the prisoners themselves had a motivated desire to flee or to lead something there. The motives of the "liberators" are also vague and unclear.

          In general, this is such a tradition. By the way, as it was indicated here in one of the articles - not only ours, but also the Turkish one - to kill other applicants for supremacy in the state, even formal ones who do not want to - in order to avoid civil strife. The execution of Kolchak in this context looked even more correct than the death of the Romanovs. But alas, just out of luck
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 13 December 2020 09: 49
    +2
    In general, all the paths and alignments after the abdication led Nicholas to the grave on the territory of his country. Yes, and he would get lost with his family was a problem - they did not know how to do anything themselves, and there was no place to live as such a landowner.
  • tasha
    tasha 13 December 2020 09: 58
    -2
    In no case should one blame their deaths on the "bloodthirsty Bolsheviks" alone.

    I think it's worth it. At the beginning of the article, the author himself writes that the abdicated monarch, especially such as Nicholas I, was not particularly needed by any of the opponents of the new government. Are there any known cases when someone went on the attack shouting "For Romanov!"?

    "To consider this tragedy is more likely to be an inevitability, to which all the events preceding it and the ruthless logic of history led."
    Yes, you can't argue against such a position. So all atrocities, violence and murder can be attributed to inevitability and logic ..
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 December 2020 10: 20
      0
      Quote: tasha
      So all atrocities, violence and murder can be attributed to inevitability and logic ..

      Are you talking about January 9, 1905?
      1. tasha
        tasha 13 December 2020 10: 31
        +1
        Explain your thought, please.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 13 December 2020 10: 34
          +5
          Quote: tasha
          Explain your thought, please.

          By what "logic" did Nikolay reward the punishers for atrocities, murders and violence? Have you read the Petition? What is criminal there?
          1. tasha
            tasha 13 December 2020 10: 48
            -1
            Have you watched the film "The Wrong Turn"?

            "To consider this tragedy is more likely to be an inevitability, to which all the events preceding it and the ruthless logic of history led." - if we accept this position of the author, then any atrocity, any crime can be attributed to the inevitability and ruthless logic of history. For example: on August 6, 1945, the Americans dropped an atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima. It was inevitable. The war was going on, the Americans created a bomb and it was logical to drop it on the city, in which, in addition to civilians, there were military enterprises ... Is that clearer?
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 13 December 2020 10: 51
              +1
              Quote: tasha
              The war was going on, the Americans created a bomb and it was logical to drop it on the city, in which, in addition to civilians, there were military enterprises ...

              And by what logic do you justify some "atrocities" and condemn others?
              1. tasha
                tasha 13 December 2020 10: 52
                +1
                Please be clearer.
                What atrocities do I condone and what do I condemn?
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 13 December 2020 10: 58
                  +3
                  Quote: tasha
                  Please be clearer.
                  What atrocities do I condone and what do I condemn?

                  The shooting of the Romanovs according to your logic is atrocity without excuse
                  Quote: tasha
                  "To consider this tragedy is more likely to be an inevitability, to which all the events preceding it and the ruthless logic of history led."
                  Yes, you can't argue against such a position. So all atrocities, violence and murder can be attributed to inevitability and logic ..

                  And the shooting of hundreds of civilians is already stretching towards "inevitability". That everyone is equal, but there is more equal?
                  1. tasha
                    tasha 13 December 2020 11: 24
                    +3
                    I'll try to explain it to you again. The author of the article writes: "To consider this tragedy is more likely to be an inevitability, to which all the events preceding it and the ruthless logic of history led."
                    So I think that, citing the inevitability and ruthless logic of history, you can justify ANY atrocity. And I cannot support this point of view of the author.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 13 December 2020 11: 28
                      0
                      Quote: tasha
                      So I think that, citing the inevitability and ruthless logic of history, you can justify ANY atrocity.

                      It follows from your logic that the crime and the punishment for it are the essence of one and the same atrocity. And the rulers always die the death that they themselves prepared.
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 13 December 2020 11: 32
                        +2
                        This does not follow from my logic, it is water that gurgles in your reasoning. You try again to understand the meaning of my comments, and then think about what I decided there, whom I justified, and in general WHAT I am writing about ...
                      2. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 13 December 2020 11: 39
                        +2
                        well then
                        Quote: tasha
                        Please be clearer.

                        What is the secret meaning in the commentary:
                        Quote: tasha
                        "To consider this tragedy is more likely to be an inevitability, to which all the events preceding it and the ruthless logic of history led."
                        Yes, you can't argue against such a position. So all atrocities, violence and murder can be attributed to inevitability and logic ..

                        The author sees it - he turned the whole country against himself, get it. And what did you mean?
                      3. tasha
                        tasha 13 December 2020 11: 45
                        0
                        "To consider this tragedy is more likely to be an inevitability, to which all the events preceding it and the ruthless logic of history led."

                        I believe that such a phrase can end an article about any atrocity, crime and violence. ANYONE. And I do not approve of this conclusion of the author about the reasons for the murder of the family of Nicholas II ... But the author has no other.
                      4. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 13 December 2020 11: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: tasha
                        And I do not approve of this conclusion of the author about the reasons for the murder of the family of Nicholas II ..

                        Well then, what were your reasons?
                      5. tasha
                        tasha 13 December 2020 11: 54
                        +1
                        Matvey, I will probably refrain. Because it took me 6 comments to try to explain to you what I thought of the article. Obviously, I will not be a writer, I am not able to convey an idea to the interlocutor. Maybe next time.
                      6. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 13 December 2020 12: 14
                        -2
                        Quote: tasha
                        Obviously, I won't make a writer out of me, I don't know how to convey an idea to my interlocutor.

                        Can't blame the Bolsheviks alone for the execution?
                      7. tasha
                        tasha 13 December 2020 12: 28
                        0
                        Once again, you are wrong. This is not the point. But thank you.
                      8. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 13 December 2020 12: 29
                        0
                        Quote: tasha
                        Once again, you are wrong.

                        How mysterious you are ..))))
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 13 December 2020 12: 58
      -20%
      Quote: mat-vey
      And the shooting of hundreds of peaceful people

      What "hundreds". what a mossy rotten lie and nonsense?

      The troops did NOT attack the processions. but they themselves were attacked by the crowd from which they fired.

      The slaughter, beatings and murders from machine guns the workers were exposed precisely by the bandits on the day of the dispersal of the Constituent Assembly.

      And that was just the beginning.

      Then the bandits shot at them and the peasants regularly for another
      more than a dozen years.

      you need to go to Astrakhan, in 1919, where on the second anniversary of the February revolution The "workers' and peasants' government" drowned workers' Astrakhan in blood.

      Even against the background of the Russian communist terror, ostensibly directed against the class enemies of labor, but which hit mainly workers and peasants, this is a massacre unparalleled in its scope in the history of the labor movement.
      “On March 10, 1919, at ten o'clock in the morning, the workers of the factories“ Vulkan ”,“ Etna ”,“ Caucasus and Mercury ”stopped work on an alarm bell and began a meeting. The workers refused the demand of the representatives of the authorities to disperse and continued to hold meetings.

      The XNUMX-strong rally of workers who were peacefully discussing their difficult financial situation was surrounded by machine gunners, sailors and grenade launchers. After the workers refused to disperse, a volley from rifles was fired. Then machine guns crackled, aimed at the dense mass of the protesters, and hand grenades began to explode with a deafening crash.

      The meeting wavered, lay down and fell terribly quiet. Behind the machine-gun chatter, neither the groan of the wounded, nor the dying cries of those killed to death could be heard ...

      Suddenly, the mass breaks loose and in an instant, with a swift onslaught of horrified forces, breaks through the deadly cordon of government troops. And he runs, runs, without looking back, in all directions, looking for salvation from the bullets of the machine guns that have started working again. They shoot at the running. The survivors are driven into the premises and shot at point-blank range. Many corpses remained at the site of a peaceful rally

      The news of the execution instantly spreads around the city.

      They ran from everywhere. They shouted one panicky "shoot, shoot"!

      A large crowd of workers gathered around the church.

      A distant gun shot. A rattling, strange volley in the air. Suddenly there was a thump behind this buzz. Buzzing again. The dome of the church collapses with a crash. Thump and thumping sounds again. The shell explodes. Other. More. More. The crowd instantly turns into a maddened herd. They run wherever they look. And the Outpost shoots and shoots. From somewhere they adjust the shooting and the shells hit the running.

      The city became depopulated. Quiet. Some ran, some hid. At least two thousand victims were snatched from the workers' ranks.

      This was the end of the first part of the terrible Astrakhan tragedy.

      The second - even more terrible - began on March 12... Some of the workers were taken prisoner by the "victors" and placed in six commandant's offices, on barges and steamers. Among the latter, the steamer "Gogol" stood out for its horrors... Telegrams about the "uprising" were sent to the center.

      Chairman Rev. Military. Sov. Republic L. Trotsky responded with a laconic telegram: "to deal mercilessly." And the fate of the unfortunate captive workers was decided... A bloody madness reigned on land and water.

      In the basements of the emergency commandant's offices and simply in the courtyards, they were shot. From steamers and barges they threw directly into the Volga. Some unfortunate people had stones tied around their necks. Some were tied with arms and legs and thrown with bomouth. One of the workers, who had gone unnoticed in the hold, somewhere near the car and survived, said that about one hundred and eighty (180) people were dropped from the Gogol steamer in one night. And in the city in the emergency commandant's offices there were so many executed that they barely had time to be taken to the cemetery at night, where they piled up in heaps under the guise of "typhoid".


      The investigation of the tragedy of 1905 was carried out by the authorities, p = society, everything is open and transparent.

      The BATTLE in Astrakhan is still little known: the punishers carefully covered their tracks.

      This is the difference between the PEOPLE'S Rule of 1905 and the ANTI-People's Power of 1919
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 13 December 2020 13: 08
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        that you are talking mossy rotten lies and nonsense?

        Once again I will repeat - where am I to you.
      2. Hantengri
        Hantengri 13 December 2020 14: 41
        +5
        Quote: Olgovich
        Even against the background of the Russian communist terror, ostensibly directed against the class enemies of labor, but which hit mainly workers and peasants, this is a massacre unparalleled in its scope in the history of the labor movement .............

        Olgovich, did you invent it yourself? If not, where is the indication of the name of the author and the title of this, judging by the style, work of art?
      3. BAI
        BAI 13 December 2020 20: 10
        +3
        What "hundreds". what a mossy rotten lie and nonsense?

        How much can you rave?
        Lena shot - tragic events on April 4 (17), 1912 at the mines of the Lena gold mining partnership, located in the area of ​​the city of Bodaibo on the Lena tributary, the Vitime and Olekma rivers. As a result of the conflict of shareholders [1], a strike and the shooting of a crowd of three thousand striking by government troops, 372 people were injured, of which 170 died from the received wounds.

        This is an isolated case. And how much has accumulated throughout the country during the reign?
        More than 100 people died at Ochakov. Including Schmidt with his 16-year-old son. Nobody blames the king for killing a child.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 13 December 2020 21: 33
          -1
          Quote: BAI
          the shooting of a crowd of three thousand strikers by government troops

          A small detail - they were not just on strike, but were going to crush the police department, so if the soldiers did not start shooting, it would be the same as what happened to the Berkut in our time.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 13 December 2020 21: 53
          -11%
          Quote: BAI
          of which 170 died from the received wounds.

          Stop raving - find out about wild slaughter of workers the same mine in 1938, when it was tortured and executed SEVERAL TIMES more workers than in 1912 at the same Lena mine. Thousands more disappeared in the camps

          And if the first execution was a spontaneous attempt to stop the crowd and riots, then the second Lena shot was carried out in the form of a purposeful multi-day terror unleashed against the workers and peasants.

          From the memoranda:
          "Only today is March 10th received a solution for 157 people. We dug 4 holes. I had to do blasting work, due to permafrost. I allocated 6 people for the upcoming operation. I will carry out the execution of sentences myself. I will not trust anyone and cannot. Due to the lack of roads, it can be carried on small 3 - 4-seater sleighs. I chose 6 sledges. We will shoot ourselves, carry them ourselves, and so on. We'll have to make 7-8 flights. It will take a lot of time, but I don't risk allocating more people. So far, everything is quiet. I will report on the results. "
          Whatever the typists read, I do not write to you in print. The operation on Troika's decisions was carried out only for 115 people, since the pits are adapted for no more than 100 people "... "The operation was carried out with tremendous difficulties. With a personal report, I will tell you in more detail. So far, everything is quiet and the prison does not even know. It is explained by the fact that before the operation, I carried out a number of measures to secure the operation. I will also report on them with a personal report."

          Such is the everyday routine work in the unsuitable slaughter pits.

          Read the FSB Archive for the Irkutsk Region, Case 7912 - the hair stands on end.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 13 December 2020 11: 22
    -1
    [quote = mat-vey] [quote = taskha] Explain your thought, please. [/ quote]
    By what "logic" did Nikolay reward the punishers for atrocities, murders and violence? Have you read the "Petition"? What's criminal? [/ Quote]
    dear Matvey hi you may not have read that the very fact of filing a petition under those laws was unacceptable. Everyone knew that. That's why the gapon tried to persuade.
    Therefore, later in the words of the king it was like ---- "I forgave you ....." search engine to help you if you are interested. ...
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 December 2020 11: 25
      0
      Quote: Reptiloid
      You have not read that the very fact of filing a petition under those laws was unacceptable.

      I "read" everything ... that's why there are "revolutions" and riots. And whoever does not understand this and is not able to live with the changes taking place in the world in the basement or on the scaffold ends.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 13 December 2020 12: 52
        +2
        ........ I "read" everything
        this is what they are talking about, whatever they ask in this Petition, whatever they write about ------, the result would be the same. Bloody bodies in the snow.
        "He was covered with a harsh canvas bloody snow at the beginning of January"
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 13 December 2020 12: 55
          +1
          Quote: Reptiloid
          the result would be the same. Bloody bodies in the snow.

          Which led to the bloody bodies in the basement.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 13 December 2020 15: 45
            +1
            Quote: mat-vey
            .... Which led to the bloody bodies in the basement.
            even if nothing was written there.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 13 December 2020 15: 47
              0
              Quote: Reptiloid
              even if nothing was written there.

              Are you talking about workers?
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 13 December 2020 10: 21
    0
    I remember that while still in school, I was unpleasantly struck by this story with the execution. Although I was entirely on the side of the Soviet regime. And now there are plenty of fellows who cheerfully justify this step.
    1. apro
      apro 13 December 2020 10: 34
      +2
      Quote: Moskovit
      And now there are plenty of fellows who cheerfully justify this step.

      At that time, there was a crisis in the country, a war of everyone with everyone, ruin in heads and deeds ... and this must be stopped. Yes, not all decisions were competent, not all were correct, but there was no other choice to overcome this.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 13 December 2020 10: 41
        +1
        Quote: apro
        At that time, there was a crisis in the country, a war of all against all

        And when was it different? Or again about the fantastic "20 years" of the world? Well then ...
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 December 2020 10: 36
      +5
      Quote: Moskovit
      And now there are plenty of fellows who cheerfully justify this step.

      And interestingly, if the whole family with the kids is forced to work 12-14 hours 6 days a week for a minimum wage - when their opinion will change ..
    3. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 13 December 2020 15: 58
      +2
      And the torture, mockery of whites over the population and the Bolsheviks did not impress you Moscovite in any way?
      Over time, as well as the possibilities of the Internet, more information appears about the white terror.
      For example, I was struck by the congratulations of the hierarchs of the Church for the Provisional Government. And she must support power and not participate in worldly strife
      Nobody is having fun here. And why are there no such sorrows about the other Russian Monarchs killed? Anniversaries of murders are passing, and no processions of the cross, no sobs. Doesn't happen ......
      Is it really just because some of the kings were killed by courtiers? So the Tsar-Liberator was killed by the bombers, but no one even remembers .......
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 13 December 2020 19: 09
        -2
        What does the white have to do with it? Nicholas II called to kill the Bolsheviks? Shooting their children and then mocking the corpses?
        I repeat, it was necessary to judge the king. A fair and open court. It is clear that he would have been sentenced to death. But then how do reds differ from whites, if this is done with those who are not to blame? Fight to replace one arbitrariness with another.
        There is no need to tell me about the atrocities of whites. All Siberians are well aware of this.
  • north 2
    north 2 13 December 2020 10: 43
    +3
    the first.
    If Admiral Kolchak understood the affairs of the fleet, then as some kind of builder of the state he was worthless. If you do not call Kolchak a criminal, as he called himself the Supreme Ruler of Russia and ask questions, where did the gold reserve of Russia, which Kolchak owned, and the Czech interventionists arrested Kolchak and handed over to the Bolsheviks as an unnecessary witness just after part of the trains with the Czech interventionists safely left Russia and just after that a boom in the construction of the military industry began in the Czech Republic. Is it not on the gold of Kolchak, or rather, on the gold of the Tsar
    Russia, taken out by the Czech interventionists, rose up the Czech military complexes and then flourished until the Second World War and even Hitler was supplied with weapons.
    the second.
    It turns out that when Yusupov reported to the mother of Nicholas II that Rasputin had been killed, Maria Feodorovna lamented that it would be better to kill her, that is, the wife of Nicholas II, Alexandra Feodorovna. The mother of Nicholas II was the last to worry about the moral qualities of the Tsar's wife, and first of all she worried about the influence of Alexandra Fedorovna as an agent of Germany's influence on the Russian Tsar. By the way, the second such family in the last hundred years in the highest power in Russia was the Gorbachev family ...
    the third.
    Belief in healers and seers and in all sorts of sorcerers, false teachers and heretics is a very great sin, according to the teachings of Christianity. So what can be a conversation about the recognition by the Russian Orthodox Church of Saints Nicholas II and Alexandra Feodorovna, if they lay before the charlatan-sorcerer Rasputin as if before God. According to Dante, such, together with the false teacher and heretic Rasputin, should burn in the Sixth Circle of Hell, and not be declared Saints ..
  • Unknown
    Unknown 13 December 2020 10: 47
    +2
    Poor fellow Nikolai, was doomed as soon as he took the throne after his father. He did not have all the qualities, like his father Alexander, to rule the state. As they correctly noted in the comments, he swam with the flow, indulged the numerous Romanov clan of Grand Dukes, and most importantly was henpecked. And for Russia, the reign of henpecked people always ended in failure. It's one thing when the empress rules, the other is the emperor's wife, whether it's Alex, or at a later time, Raisa. If you can rule your husband, this does not mean that you can rule the country. All unpopular decisions were made under the influence of wives. But Nicholas still read about the revolution in France, and he had to understand where he led Louis through the measured influence of his wife, and led her to the same place. Unfortunately in Russia they learn only from their mistakes, and not on strangers. Under the influence of his wife, who could not stand Wilhelm, he entered into an alliance with France and England, who also had no sympathy for Russia, and even less for the tsar. At that time, Russia had nothing to share with Germany, not in Europe, and even more so in the world. War had to be avoided, but he poked his head at breakneck speed and for what? Not the Serbs, not the French do not feel gratitude to us. The author puts forward such a semi-criminal version inspired by watching a good Soviet film, Cases of Bygone Days, about supposedly tsarist gold hidden in Western banks, but alas, this is just fiction. The tsar has been ordered to enter Britain ... Despite the war, the image of the king was formed .......
    b There could be no other opinion about the monarchy in Russia. The position of the Russian Orthodox Church towards Nikolai is very strange. First, “Many a murmur rises in their souls against the Church that the Church did not intercede for the tsar, that she stopped remembering him in her prayers ... Crazy words are heard: since there is no tsar, then there is no God either. This confusion of the spirit is exploited by selfish, corrupt people. The Church performed its services for the kings in order to convert them to the service of God and the people. And if the kings have forgotten their duty, Scripture tells us through the examples of many kings in history, how God takes away their thrones from them
    https://newdaynews.ru/revolution-1917/596538.html
    here is such a segment ..., well then the Holy One. Here's how it goes. It’s a pity about the shooting of the family and the children, but such was the time, human life was not worth anything. The Bourbons, the French, too, have wore out. that's why it is a revolution.
    1. Obliterator
      Obliterator 13 December 2020 13: 17
      -4
      Quote: Unknown
      Under the influence of his wife, who could not stand Wilhelm, he entered into an alliance with France and England, who also had no sympathy for Russia, and even less for the tsar. At that time, Russia had nothing to share with Germany, not in Europe, and even more so in the world. War had to be avoided, but he poked his head headlong and for what? Not Serbs, not Frenchmen are not grateful to us.

      Some kind of pro-German point of view, to be honest. Are you German?
      1. Unknown
        Unknown 13 December 2020 17: 38
        +2
        The point of view is sane, and he is a hare himself, but I give the Germans their due. What do not you say, they should not be treated with disdain. What benefits would R.I. have, even having not an ally in the person of Germany, but a trading partner. Well, what did France give R.I.? Credit, and a commitment, in any world aggravation, to follow the French policy. But the French themselves categorically refused any obligations. A striking example is the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05, when Russia remained isolated. And in general, if you read the ambassadors of the Entente, Buchanan and Palaeologus, they only thought how to remove Nicholas from power, and put any of V.K. who danced to their tune, and then the war to the last Russian soldier, in the name of the British and French capital.
        1. Obliterator
          Obliterator 13 December 2020 22: 23
          -1
          Quote: Unknown
          The point of view is sane, and he is a hare himself, but I give the Germans their due. What do not you say, they should not be treated with disdain. What benefits would R.I. have, even having not an ally in the person of Germany, but a trading partner. Well, what did France give R.I.?

          First of all, it should be borne in mind that the strengthening of friendship and military cooperation between Russia and France was a response to the emergence of the Triple Alliance. The Germans were then more interested in friendship with the Austrians, who were opponents of Russia. And it was also in German interests to plant the Russians, slow down their economic growth, wrest part of their territories from them. Well, in general, was it a mistake in friendship with the French? Or was it better to stay with the nemchur one on one and scramble from them all the way to the Volga, how did it happen after 25?
          1. Unknown
            Unknown 13 December 2020 23: 35
            +2
            Friendship and military cooperation with France was lobbied by Count Witte, who, playing on the queen's dislike for Wilhelm, tried to put pressure on Nicholas. Also some V.K. also did not treat the Kaiser very well. And all this was abundantly "smeared" with French capital. And when the king buried the lucrative Treaty of Bjork, Wilhelm stopped trusting Nikki's cousin. Trust between the cousins ​​was gone. Only Britain and France have benefited from this .......
            Quote: Obliterator
            Or was it better to stay with the nemchur one on one and scramble from them all the way to the Volga, how did it happen after 25?
            Somewhat earlier, France remained with Britain together, against the Third Reich, successfully skidded and surrendered the capital Paris, and actually ceased to exist as a state, while the British draped, and leaving everything they could, preferred to sit out on their island until better times. Well, we had to fight alone for two long years, not only with the Germans, well, with their friends, in order to start beating them, and in another two, to take all the capitals of Eastern Europe.
            1. Obliterator
              Obliterator 14 December 2020 00: 53
              -1
              Quote: Unknown
              Friendship and military cooperation with France was lobbied by Count Witte, who, playing on the queen's dislike for Wilhelm, tried to put pressure on Nicholas. Also some V.K. also did not treat the Kaiser very well. And all this was abundantly "smeared" with French capital. And when the king buried the lucrative Treaty of Bjork, Wilhelm stopped trusting Nikki's cousin. Trust between the cousins ​​was gone. Only Britain and France have benefited from this .......

              This is all well and good, but Russia itself was not looking for a war with Germany.
              Quote: Unknown
              Somewhat earlier, France remained with Britain together, against the Third Reich, successfully skidded and surrendered the capital Paris, and actually ceased to exist as a state, while the British draped, and leaving everything they could, preferred to sit out on their island until better times. Well, we had to fight alone for two long years, not only with the Germans, well, with their friends, in order to start beating them, and in another two, to take all the capitals of Eastern Europe.

              Which is what I meant. Something similar the Germans were planning even then according to Moltke's plan, in order to "dine in Paris and dine in St. Petersburg." However, it was possible to take European capitals in WWI, but the failed internal policy did not allow it.
              1. Unknown
                Unknown 14 December 2020 08: 04
                +2
                [quote = Obliterator]
                This is of course all good, but Russia itself was not looking for a war with Germany. [/ Quote] What I was talking about. But other people in the empire wanted it. For example V.K. Nikolai Nikolaevich, at that time the commander-in-chief and his party at court, Guchkov and Rodzianko and their Duma wing, all of them were closely associated with British French capital. But even in the German Empire, despite a number of persons who had sympathy for Russia, the Russophobic party won, but this is a separate conversation.

                Which is what I meant. Something similar the Germans were planning even then according to Moltke's plan, in order to "dine in Paris and dine in St. Petersburg." However, it was possible to take European capitals in WWI, but the failed domestic policy did not allow it. , she did not have a hydroelectric power station or a state district power station to provide the country and industry with the required amount of electricity, there was no industry itself, since there was not enough engineers and technicians. To compete with the German Empire, which for almost 1914 years had a compulsory primary education, and 1941 years after the unification made an industrial breakthrough, R.I could not speak at all. Only the USSR could, having carried out an educational program and the first five-year plans, and most importantly, JV STALIN was already leading the country, and he is not Nikolai at all, he is a leader with a capital letter.
                PYROSTO COULD NOT
                1. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 14 December 2020 15: 13
                  -2
                  Quote: Unknown
                  There is no need to equate between 1914 and 1941. In WWI, Russia was a backward agrarian country, with 85 percent illiteracy of the population, it did not have a hydroelectric power station or a state district power station to provide the country and industry with the required amount of electricity, and there was no industry itself. as there were not enough engineers and technicians. To compete with the German Empire, which for almost 200 years had a compulsory primary education, and 20 years after the unification made an industrial breakthrough, R.I could not speak at all. Only the USSR could, having spent an educational program and the first five-year plans, and most importantly, JV STALIN was already in charge of the country, and he is not Nikolai at all, he is a leader with a capital letter.
                  PYROSTO COULD NOT

                  The Russian imperial army, although it did not achieve much success, did not disappear in hundreds of thousands in boilers like the Red Army, abandoning gigantic territories. The Germans could not completely defeat it and withdraw it from the war, no matter how hard they tried. At the same time, they themselves were blown away at 17 and even more so in 18, and they could not boast of an offensive potential at all. So R.I.A. in the capitals not so much because of the "strength" of the Germans, but because of the traitors in the rear, purposefully destroying the army.
                  1. Unknown
                    Unknown 14 December 2020 20: 39
                    +1
                    There were enough prisoners in WWI, but the soldiers of R.I. were not eager to die for the Faith, the Tsar and the Fatherland ......... The number of prisoners of war in the First World War was unprecedented compared to the wars of previous eras. In the Russian army, prisoner losses from August 1914 to December 31, 1917 amounted to more than 3,4 million people, that is, 74,9% of all combat losses, or 21,1% of the total mobilized [2]. Of these, 42,14% were kept in Germany, 59,9% in Austria-Hungary, less than 1% in Bulgaria and Turkey [3]. (Source of information - portal History.RF, https://histrf.ru/biblioteka/pamyatniki-geroyam-pervoy-mirovoy/b/polozhieniie-russkikh-voiennopliennykh-v-ghody-piervoi-mirovoi-voiny-ochierk-povsiednievno -nosti) Yes, and there were enough boilers for that time, the same East Prussia, the battle at Tannenberg, the surrender of the Novogeorgievskaya fortress ........
                    also in 1915 the failures were over the roof. There is no need to idealize the army of R.I. The tsarist generals were also not up to par, and the territory of the empire, such as the Kingdom of Poland, was left, Lithuania, Latvia, part of the Estland province, almost all of Belarus.
                    Quote: Obliterator
                    The Russian imperial army, although it did not achieve much success, did not disappear in hundreds of thousands in boilers like the Red Army, abandoning gigantic territories. The Germans could not destroy it and withdraw it from the war completely, no matter how hard they tried
                    So the Red Army, no matter how hard they tried, could not destroy, not in 41-42, but in 44-45, the RKKA was in Berlin, as well as Vienna, Budapest, Bucharest, Warsaw and Prague. That's the difference.
                    1. Obliterator
                      Obliterator 14 December 2020 21: 08
                      -1
                      Quote: Unknown
                      So the Red Army, no matter how hard they tried, could not destroy, not in 41-42, but in 44-45, the RKKA was in Berlin, as well as Vienna, Budapest, Bucharest, Warsaw and Prague. That's the difference.

                      I never belittle the merits of the Red Army. The Red Army had a reliable rear, at least politically, while R.I.A. had trouble in the rear, so the outcome of the wars was different.
                      Quote: Unknown
                      There were enough prisoners in WWI, but the soldiers of R.I. were not eager to die for the Faith, the Tsar and the Fatherland ......... The number of prisoners of war in the First World War was unprecedented compared to the wars of previous eras. In the Russian army, prisoner losses from August 1914 to December 31, 1917 amounted to more than 3,4 million people, that is, 74,9% of all combat losses

                      In the Great Patriotic War, so much for about the first year just got captured, so that way you can get to the point that they didn't really want to die for their Motherland (not to mention communism).
                      1. Unknown
                        Unknown 14 December 2020 21: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        In the Great Patriotic War, so much about the first year just got captured, so that way you can get to the point that they didn't really want to die for their Motherland (not to mention communism)
                        It is not necessary to compare WWII with WWII, and even more so WWII, these are other wars, different weapons and, accordingly, other losses. As for the prisoners of the Red Army, there was already an article on V.O. take an interest, go to the archive of the site, there is a lot of interesting material, and everything is laid out on the shelves, it makes no sense to return to the topic covered. ...... However, one should take into account the fact that in violation of the Hague and Geneva Conventions, the German authorities included in the prisoners of war not only soldiers and officers of the Red Army, but also party officials, partisans, underground fighters, as well as the entire male population from 16 to 55 years old, retreating with Soviet troops. According to the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the loss of prisoners in the Second World War amounted to 4 million 559 thousand people, and the commission of the Ministry of Defense, chaired by M. A. Gareev, announced about 4 million.

                        Source: How many soldiers of the Red Army were captured in the Great Patriotic War
                        © Russian Seven russian7.
                      2. Obliterator
                        Obliterator 14 December 2020 22: 03
                        0
                        Quote: Unknown
                        There is no need to compare WWII with WWII, and even more so WWII, these are other wars, different weapons and, accordingly, other losses.

                        Yes, yes, and in terms of the diplomatic situation on the eve they are very different.
                2. strannik1985
                  strannik1985 14 December 2020 21: 00
                  +1
                  The Russian imperial army, although it did not achieve much success

                  Because in WWI units of the same mobility fought - infantry, similarly to the armies of France and England, they performed normally in the First World War, but merged on land in the Second.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 13 December 2020 11: 02
    +6
    Another fable from the propagandist Kharaluzhny, who collected in his article all the fables of the yellow press about the "gold of the Romanovs". It is strange that the US Federal Reserve did not put in here, where, according to the stories of modern "historians", in 1913, Nicholas II, one of its founders, contributed no less (attention) 48 600 tons of gold (forty eight thousand six hundred tons). This is despite the fact that mankind has mined approximately 200 tons of gold throughout its history. And today this gold lies in the safes of the evil Rothschilds. And this "duck" is launched not by some blogger, but by Doctor of Historical Sciences Fortunatov. Maybe Kharaluzhny Fortunatov didn't read?
  • ee2100
    ee2100 13 December 2020 11: 39
    +1
    A little more than 100 years have passed and everything seems to be there, but it is extremely difficult to assess the correctness of actions, both on the one hand and on the other. To the author's question "did Nicholas II have a chance to escape?" unequivocally yes. But why he did not do it, I think 100% no one will answer. To try to answer it correctly, it was necessary to be a contemporary of Nicholas and feel the atmosphere of that time.
    100 years will pass and our descendants will also argue about why the Union collapsed, why Yeltsin won the elections, why some songs were sung about Putin at the beginning, and then others.
    We, as contemporaries of this time, can more or less explain these paradoxes. So it is with Nikolai - some speculation.
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 13 December 2020 11: 46
    0
    It is your will, but not everything is in order with Nikolai's abdication. Signed in pencil, and, not the fact that the emperor, also certified in pencil, then the certification signature is circled in ink. Was there no inkwell with a feather on the tsar's train?
    Most likely, Nicholas was presented with a fact, they say, your renunciation was announced, then as you wish .... on the other hand, now it does not change anything.
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 13 December 2020 12: 18
      +4
      So speculation rushed "Most likely, Nicholas was presented with a fact," (c) And he is poor with anyone and did not share for a year that he signed a renunciation with a revolver at his temple!
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 13 December 2020 12: 47
        +1
        Well, what are the speculations here. About a pencil - a fact. Well, here's a photo for you. Moreover, this is not the only signature in pencil for 23 years of reign. Another such moment. Shulgin and several other "eyewitnesses" claimed that the abdication manifesto was printed on quarters of telegraph forms ... as you can see, nothing of the kind. For some reason, the Minister of the Court, Count Fredricks, flatly refused to confirm his signature. Say, did not assure and that's it!
        In general, I repeat, something does not agree with the official version.
        And what he did not share ... and you, excuse me, how to know? Just one of those with whom he talked "throughout the year." very few survived.
        Quote: ee2100
        signed a renunciation with a revolver at the temple!

        But this is really speculation :)
    2. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 13 December 2020 12: 52
      +1
      Nikolai very often signed or endorsed documents with a pencil. Preferred it to ink. “… I sent a telegram to the palace commandant, Adjutant General VA Dedyulin, asking him to cast my boundless gratitude and readiness to serve His Majesty at the feet of the Emperor, as I served for 35 years to His sovereign father and grandfather.
      Two days later, the palace commandant sent me with his letter my telegram, on which it was written in pencil by the Emperor's hand:
      “Thank you. I never doubted the loyalty of General Kurlov's service. " (Kurlov).
      So this fact in itself does not mean anything.
  • Timofey Charuta
    Timofey Charuta 13 December 2020 12: 18
    +3
    Escape abroad of such a well-known personality impromptu is unlikely. And preparation is a risky business. How carefully the flight of Louis 17 was prepared from revolutionary France, but it was punctured by an absurd accident. The consequences of an unsuccessful escape were dire ...

    Apparently, the king was at a loss and did not want to risk his family, children, incl. There was also a mess in France, but the revolutionaries did not lose their vigilance. The fugitive king was noticed by an ordinary innkeeper, turned out to be conscious and raised a kipesh. It all ended with judgment and execution.

    Most likely, it seemed to the tsar that it was safer to sit quietly in the palace, especially since at first they were not touched, they forgot about them. And so on the road, revolutionary sailors, the usual rebellious mob, will recognize you or your family and create a popular massacre of the tyrant and his offspring.

    The only chance - to run away, and even with a large family (some 4 children) - had to be prepared in advance, even when everything was relatively quiet. To look after the country - there were a lot of august relatives everywhere. Why not Denmark, for example. The mother of the king is from there ...

    I think that Germany would just receive the former commander-in-chief of the Russian army with enormous pleasure. German intelligence could probably try to arrange an escape. They say that it was so, but Nikolai Romanov did not want to ...

    I also believe that it is incorrect to consider the Forsaken Emperor as a bat card. You can always announce to the people that the conspirators forced to sign a renunciation, threatened with death, kill children, etc. etc.
    In extreme cases, declare the act of abdication a fake. In the midst of the Civil War, to find out what and how it really happened ... The Bolsheviks understood this and, as a result, the execution.

    Although, to be honest, in the place of the Bolsheviks in advance, at the first opportunity, I would have transported the august family to Moscow, to the Kremlin and would have kept them with me as hostages.

    1. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 13 December 2020 13: 22
      0
      Everything is correct. There is nothing to add.
    2. Obliterator
      Obliterator 13 December 2020 13: 28
      -1
      Quote: Timofey Charuta
      The only chance - to run away, and even with a large family (some 4 children) - had to be prepared in advance, even when everything was relatively quiet. To look after the country - there were a lot of august relatives everywhere. Why not Denmark, for example. The mother of the king is from there ...

      I think that Germany would just receive the former commander-in-chief of the Russian army with enormous pleasure. German intelligence could probably try to arrange an escape. They say that it was so, but Nikolai Romanov did not want to ...

      The internal factor should not be ruled out. The Petrograd Soviet would never have allowed the Romanovs to leave the country. Second, running is very difficult. You can't go to Germany, since she is the enemy. The North Sea to England is too risky, as submarines rampage. In the south - the Ottomans.
      1. Timofey Charuta
        Timofey Charuta 13 December 2020 22: 35
        0
        The internal factor is just mentioned by me at the very beginning, and in the top photo it is clearly visible (a frame from a feature film). I do not understand why you are unhappy ...
        1. Obliterator
          Obliterator 13 December 2020 23: 02
          -2
          Quote: Timofey Charuta
          The internal factor is just mentioned by me at the very beginning, and in the top photo it is clearly visible (a frame from a feature film). I do not understand why you are unhappy ...

          Not that I'm not happy, but rather an addition.
          Quote: Timofey Charuta
          Most likely, it seemed to the tsar that it was safer to sit quietly in the palace, especially since at first they were not touched, they forgot about them.

          He's never an adventurer, and he clearly did not think that the respectable Democrats from the State. Duma's power will be taken away by radicals, for whom to kill a person who does not fit into their utopia is like blowing your nose.
    3. bober1982
      bober1982 13 December 2020 17: 39
      -2
      Quote: Timofey Charuta
      Get away, and even with a large family (some children 4 pieces)

      Are you confused in pieces? In quantity?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Timofey Charuta
        Timofey Charuta 13 December 2020 22: 24
        0
        Sorry, you're right, thanks for the fix. Indeed 4 daughters + son.
        Do not say, but there are many children, a large family. how to protect everyone ...

        1. bober1982
          bober1982 14 December 2020 04: 35
          0
          Quote: Timofey Charuta
          Sorry

          Bonjuor, Timofey
  • prior
    prior 13 December 2020 12: 19
    +4
    For what the Romanovs did to Russia in the 20th century, they should all be exhumed and shot again. So that even now such a disagreement was not to anyone.
    I won't talk about the church.
    Even the pioneers of the USSR brought more benefits to the country than all the priests put together.
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 13 December 2020 12: 22
    +4
    Quote: aybolyt678
    George Cross in the photo, for what did you get it? the first question and the second question: - why were you ranked among the saints? what did the saint do for Vera? Passion-bearers, the term was invented ... of course I feel sorry for the children. But how many millions of Russian soldiers died and families suffered?


    But I have another question, when I asked the priests an intelligible answer did not receive. The question is: "Nicholas II and his family were canonized. I don't understand why, but ... okay, let's assume. However, Nicholas II, the Empress and their children are not the only ones who were shot in the basement of the Ipatiev house! Why Church refused / evaded the canonization of Doctor Botkin - the Tsarevich's doctor, the sailor - the nanny for the Tsarevich, the emperor's servant ??? Pay attention, these people voluntarily went to death together with the royal family! look differently at the need to shoot the emperor and his family members, but ... wasn’t the death of a doctor, a sailor-nanny and a servant a feat that really deserved canonization? So why is the Russian Orthodox Church shyly silent about this feat? ... or is it not appropriate canonize the rabble together with the Emperor? "
    1. Obliterator
      Obliterator 13 December 2020 13: 45
      0
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      So why is the Russian Orthodox Church bashfully silent about this feat? ... or shouldn't the rabble be canonized with the Emperor? "

      She is not silent. Even on Vicky it says: "As noted by a member of the Synodal Commission for the Canonization of Saints Archpriest George Mitrofanov," the rank of martyrs has been used since antiquity only in relation to representatives of the grand-ducal and royal families. "
    2. Olddetractor
      Olddetractor 13 December 2020 18: 04
      0
      The uncle of the Tsarevich, Klimenty Nagorny, was canonized among the servants of the royal family, killed by the Soviet regime, at the ROCOR Council of Bishops on November 14, 1981. Perhaps you are writing about another sailor uncle, Khokhla Derevenko, but this is a completely different story
  • nnz226
    nnz226 13 December 2020 12: 55
    +5
    Because of the mediocrity of the "Tsarskoye Selo gopher" Russia plunged into a bloody bacchanalia of revolutions and the Civil War. My grandmother had 12 children in her grandfather, five died of hunger, disease, deprivation during the above-mentioned turmoil! Question: why are my uncles and aunts who have not grown up worse, degenerate children from a family of half-wit and hemophiliacs? And why the latter are painted with halos, but not the grandmother's dead children ???
    1. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 13 December 2020 13: 36
      +6
      Because they are from different backgrounds.
      The misery of the "rabble" is not interesting to the masters.
  • grumbler
    grumbler 13 December 2020 13: 30
    -7
    They were not ranked as saints; the ROC ranked them among the martyrs (https://foma.ru/za-chto-kanonizirovan-imperator-nikolaj-ii.html). The terrible death of his entire family is a symbol of the split and barbaric brutality of the Civil War and the Red Terror, which was established in Russia for 3 decades - from 1920 to 1953.
    How many were later resettled and tortured first by the Reds, White, Interventions, Makhnovtsy, Petliurists, etc. And then the Bolsheviks continued to "nightmare" Russia and its neighbors Georgia, Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltic ...

    Judging by the literature, the "citizens of the Romanovs" had few chances. The pro-monarchist part of the White Movement needed them as living symbols of autocracy, and the Reds were dangerous for the same reason.

    Why weren't the English cousins ​​rescued? - the question is of course open. Considering the size of repayable military aid from the Entente countries to Russia, I do not think that they needed "tsarist gold". But geopolitics could play a role: if Russia had been preserved as a monarchy, if it had emerged from the WWI among the winners, it would not have allowed France and Britain to impose on Germany and Austria-Hungary the terms of surrender so humiliating and devastating. And the goal of France and Britain in WWI was precisely to trample Germany as a dangerous competitor. And Russia, with its projects on the Bosphorus and state Pan-Slavism (which dragged us into WWI), was also not to the liking of the British. It must be remembered that by that time the time of Queen Victoria had passed and England was ruled by the Prime Minister, Government and Parliament, and the Monarchy was moving in the direction of "reigning but not ruling" (which is clearly seen in the memoirs of Buchanan and Paleologus).

    What to find fault with "crosses" - then all the monarchs were showered with awards, that your Christmas tree. In ordinary life, the monarch tried to "be closer to the people" (maybe a somewhat odious example, but A. Hitler also wore his soldier's cross, though as a native of the common people, he really visited the WWI trenches).
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 13 December 2020 14: 50
    +2
    The author, who gave the order for the physical elimination of the Romanovs? Why did you omit an important factor?
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 13 December 2020 15: 12
    +2
    Quote: Obliterator
    She is not silent. Even on Vicky it says: "As noted by a member of the Synodal Commission for the Canonization of Saints Archpriest George Mitrofanov," the rank of martyrs has been used since antiquity only in relation to representatives of the grand-ducal and royal families. "


    The fact is that the "rank of martyrs" is not the only one for canonization, there are other ranks ...
    This is, in my opinion, the cynicism and duplicity of our Orthodox Church.

    In this regard, remember the Russian Soldier Evgeny Aleksandrovich Rodionov - the Chechens cut off his head when he refused to take off his pectoral cross and convert to Islam.
    As the same Wikipedia points out, "At the end of 2003, proposals for the canonization of Yevgeny Rodionov began to sound. One of the initiators of the glorification of Eugene was the chairman of the committee "For the moral revival of the Fatherland", the rector of the church of St. Nicholas in Pyzhy, Archpriest Alexander Shargunov. Mother Eugene was invited to the Synodal Commission for the Canonization of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC), where she was heard. The commission made the following conclusions about the death of Yevgeny and his possible canonization: reports of the martyrdom of Yevgeny Rodionov were recorded only from the words of the mother, who did not see the death of her son. She also cannot confirm with certainty that her son was forced to deny Christ. The mother saw Evgeny's alleged killer - Ruslan Khaikhoroev - only once in her life, for 7 minutes, during this meeting Ruslan Khaikhoroev, according to his mother, did not tell anything about the circumstances of Evgeny Rodionov's death. There are no witnesses or testimonies of the martyr's death, except for Rodionov's mother. In early 2004, the Synodal Commission for Canonization refused to be canonized due to the lack of reliable information about a martyr's death in the church sense and that Rodionov led a conscious church life "
    Note: "Yevgeny Rodionov is a locally revered saint in Serbia.

    In May 2011, he was included as a "new martyr Eugene the Warrior" in the military funeral service, recommended Orthodox chaplains of the United States Army to commemorate the dead soldiers on the feast of the Beheading of John the Baptist and Dimitrievskaya Saturday
    ".

    It turns out strange, for the Serbs and the American army the feat of Yevgeny Voin has been proven and he is worthy of canonization, but for our Russian Orthodox Church ... alas ... alas ... alas ...

    .
    1. grumbler
      grumbler 13 December 2020 16: 14
      0
      To curtail the conflict in Chechnya, the Russian leadership was forced to take unprecedented measures: from transferring Chechnya to the control of former field commanders, colossal cash infusions and even restricting federal laws in the rebellious territories and replacing them with Sharia and local communal institutions. Before ideological concessions, such as defamation of Budanov, "Kadyrov's bridge" in St. Petersburg (which was even popularly called "Budanov's bridge"). In this regard, the example you cite with the Christian feat of E.A. Rodinov - if he was canonized, this could lead to the growth of Russian Orthodox nationalism (that is, to the strengthening of national identity) and the aggravation of inter-religious strife, which was very dangerous at that time. Here, I think, politicians and "categorically recommended" the ROC not to make "sudden movements." This is a direct consequence of the fact that the ROC is more a "ministry of religious propaganda" than a church.
      In other words, always and everywhere the "official church" - be it the Aztec or Egyptian priests, cardinals and patriarchs, or the ideologists of Marxism-Leninism or National Socialism - with rare exceptions (like Metropolitan Philip II) served the current regime.
      1. Timofey Charuta
        Timofey Charuta 14 December 2020 11: 41
        0
        There is an elder in the garden, and in the comments about the tsar's salvation - Kadyrov and Budanov and how bad it is to serve the current regime ...

        1. grumbler
          grumbler 15 December 2020 20: 19
          -1
          Those. They mastered the picture to stick, but to rewind a couple of comments above "did not shmogla"? Well, let me remind you that in the thread there is a discussion not only of the original article, but also of the comments to it. And often they are even more interesting than the article that generated the thread - this is the meaning of the forum. I can only advise learning to read not only "diagonally" and "between the lines", but also simply from left to right, it can also be useful. If you have to explain this, then I don't even know who should do "shh ..." to himself.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 13 December 2020 15: 19
    -1
    Do not forget about the terms of the US Federal Reserve's debt to Russia, which financed its creation and, which the states are not going to return, like Alaska. But in order to demand the return of the debt, the signatures of the Emperor of Russia and two more members of the imperial family are needed. By the way, in Russia the treaty disappeared, they say it burned down during the revolutionary time, and maybe in the "holy" 90s, who knows. Well, the fact that the English queen is now wearing the tiara of the murdered empress is also from there. No one was going to save Nicholas II, but very, very many were interested in his death. The Bolsheviks did not need the emperor's death. After all, they were going to organize a trial over him and planned to transfer him to Moscow with his family. During the process, they planned to receive and voice incriminating evidence against those in power in the world, which
    use for the cause of the world revolution. But in the Bolshevik party, in addition to Lenin, Stalin, Dzerzhinsky, there were also Trotsky and Sverdlov, who had connections in America and England, etc. So they were most likely interested in this. In general, all the Romanovs were doomed.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 December 2020 16: 45
    0
    In no case should one blame their deaths on the "bloodthirsty Bolsheviks" alone.

    Well, yes, of course, Yurovsky soaked the Romanovs in the basement, but let's smear this murder with a thin layer on all the defendants of the Russian turmoil known at that time? What nonsense?
    the ruthless logic of history.

    by the same "ruthless logic" the Kaiser, for example, managed to calmly live to old age in Holland. Although the measure of his guilt will almost be greater than that of Nikolai.
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 13 December 2020 16: 54
    0
    Quote: grumbler
    if he was canonized, this could lead to the growth of Russian Orthodox nationalism (that is, to the strengthening of national self-awareness) and an exacerbation of interreligious strife, which was very dangerous at that time.


    Perhaps I am wrong, but more and more often I come to the conclusion that after the October coup up to the present moment inclusive and, probably for the foreseeable future in the future, it is the RUSSIAN NATIONAL SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS that is the worst nightmare of the authorities. Even for the Bolsheviks / Communists with their "new man" and internationalism, even for the current democratic government, swindlers and thieves ...
    1. grumbler
      grumbler 13 December 2020 17: 23
      +1
      on Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich Today, 16:54
      I think yes. In addition to the objective need to sacrifice some figures in a big political game, I think the strengthening of the national self-consciousness of Russians is not included in the plans of the current Cheka-ist leadership. First, the Orthodox new martyrs, the growth of national self-esteem, so, you look, and demand a constitution, freedom of assembly, elections and other "liberal perversions." No, you can't.

      And in such an ethnically and religiously heterogeneous country like Russia, with such a low level of political culture (bow to the earthly kings and Bolsheviks), the highest level of radicalism and aggression, the risks are very high - it will begin with the glorification of heroes, "round dances and embroidered shirts", and may end civil war.

      But I will not tire of repeating: there is no "democratic power of crooks and thieves." If we had democracy, we would have changed the president and the parliamentary majority several times.
      Where do you see real elections, parties? - I don't see, some imitations (they even came up with a name for this - "imitation democracy", lovely!)

      On the paragraph Epitafievich Y. Today, 16:45
      So with the "comrades" and "partagenos" it is always like that - "the ruthless logic of history", "demands of the moment", all around "class enemies" and "subhumans." If you need more executions or camps? - so this is the "requirements of the moment".
  • vladcub
    vladcub 13 December 2020 19: 33
    0
    "Did the emperor and his family have a chance for salvation" similar is true they say that everyone is destined to have what he will be? And Nikolay2 knew that Fate was not kind to him.
    Judge for yourself.
    If Pyotr Arkadyevich Stolypin had remained alive after Bogrov's shot, he would have preserved the empire. He had: mind and will. Zdanovich rules out a conspiracy against P.A. He believes that there was an ordinary Bardak + there are always craftsmen: "to fish in troubled waters."
    Shulgin is confident that in February 1917 the monarchy could have been saved. Denikin thought so too.
    I do not like alternatives, but sometimes I want: "if yes, if only".
    Purely theoretically. Alekseev did not "squeeze" the telegram about the transfer of the throne to the Tsarevich. The Regency Council is formed, probably V.K. Nikolay Nikolaevich chairman. He was popular among the army. This reduces the temperature of discontent. Germany would most likely capitulate November-December 1917, general euphoria. The Tsarevich could hardly manage the state and the throne passes to Mikhail2. "Responsible government" formed and steam released
    There were several options for resolving the "land issue", which is a separate issue.
    Samsonov in 2017? wrote that the king could be saved by any strong-willed officer. With a command to the soldiers, and Nikolai's security was from the Georgievsky Knights, put things in order and EVERYTHING would have stopped
    But what happened and happened.
  • BAI
    BAI 13 December 2020 19: 39
    0
    The death of the Romanovs - did the emperor and his family have a chance of salvation?

    Was. When the tsar's guards appointed by the Provisional Government were not paid salaries. And they raised money for the ransom. And handed over to the Russian Orthodox Church. And the ROC squeezed them. Where did they (the money) go - there is a great secret. But there was a real opportunity to outbid the guards and take out the king. But the ROC tore everything down, and now it hypocritically ranks the tsar and his family among the great martyrs (or intercessors, or prayers, or whatever else, but not saints).
  • Selevc
    Selevc 13 December 2020 23: 42
    0
    And why consider a chance for salvation for a person guilty of the deaths of millions of his fellow citizens ???

    The abdication of Nicholas II is an act of betrayal from the country's top leadership directed at the back of millions of its citizens who are fighting on the fronts of the 2st World War !!! It was difficult for Russia during this war - but the people somehow held on, held on both in the rear and on the front line, both soldiers and officers held out - the tsar could not hold out !!! Russia would have withstood all the hardships of the world war - but in 1917, by his abdication, Nikolai launched the processes of destruction of the vertical of power in the country and the immersion of Russia into chaos !!!

    The tsar's abdication opened a certain Pandora's box that brought Russia defeat, chaos and a catastrophe of a universal scale. Brought both revolutions and civil and intervention and famine and homeless people and epidemics, waves of emigration and external isolation ...

    The weak link turned out to be the family of a person, which in the world was second only to the British crown in wealth !!! They were as rich as Croesus - the Hermitage is full of their wealth, its storerooms, it was hidden in hiding places from the Reds, it was taken out by the Whites, it was then sold to the USSR and collected by all the world's collectors for the last 100 years !!! And as for, for example, Faberge eggs - this is an elite luxury, even by royal measures !!!

    And in this country there were not enough guns for the soldiers and they went on the attack according to the principle - one gun for three !!! And in this country did not have enough shells, cannons and machine guns ??? Nikolaev Russia is just a universal evil, chaos and chaos, and the shameful finish of all this "Great Tsarist Feast during the Plague !!!"
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 14 December 2020 06: 23
      0
      Quote: Selevc
      The abdication of Nicholas II is an act of betrayal from the country's top leadership directed at the back of millions of its citizens who are fighting on the fronts of the 2st World War !!! It was difficult for Russia during this war - but the people somehow held on, held on both in the rear and on the front line, both soldiers and officers held out - the tsar could not hold out !!!

      Quote: Dart2027
      The author is not aware of the fact that conspirators-generals loomed behind the king's back, one of whom actually arrested him.

      Quote: Selevc
      And in this country there were not enough guns for the soldiers and they went on the attack according to the principle - one gun for three !!!

      I heard something similar about the Second World War.
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 14 December 2020 10: 42
        +1
        Quote: Dart2027
        I heard something similar about the Second World War.

        In the Second World War, the situation is exactly the opposite - at the helm of the country is not a hereditary monarch, but a leader who has risen from the very bottom. The Second World War, like the First World War, begins with a series of defeats and the enemy moves deep into Soviet territory - but despite the fact that the Germans are already at the gates of Moscow, Stalin does not give up, but conducts a parade on Red Square !!! So in WWII everything happens exactly the opposite !!!

        And Leningrad does not surrender despite the complete blockade and the terrible situation in the city and Stalingrad does not surrender despite the fact that the Germans occupied 95% of the city and Sevastopol did not surrender despite the six-month siege !!! Thanks to the heroic defense, the Soviet troops gained psychological superiority over the enemy - and large German citadels in 1945 were already falling like ripe nuts - and Konigsberg and Poznan and Berlin and others !!!

        And we won !!! We won in spite of terrible losses and hardships !!! And before it was rightly said that the victory of the USSR in the Second World War is the merit of the Soviet people and personally Comrade Stalin !!! This is also true because the country was lucky with the leadership in such a difficult period of history !!! And it is completely unknown how the fate of the USSR would have developed if a person with a huge organizational talent and also a talent of a leader were not at the helm of the country !!!
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 14 December 2020 19: 19
          0
          Quote: Selevc
          In the Second World War, the situation is exactly the opposite - at the helm of the country is not a hereditary monarch, but a leader who has risen from the very bottom.

          And how does it change that the same propaganda cliches are used both there and there?
      2. Selevc
        Selevc 14 December 2020 10: 53
        -1
        Quote: Dart2027
        The author is not aware of the fact that conspirators-generals loomed behind the king's back, one of whom actually arrested him.

        Why was Nikolai so hastily to abdicate the throne ??? What such an urgent need for this arose in the 17th year ??? History knows cases when kings, kings and other such persons did not abdicate the throne even while standing on the scaffold !!!
        Why was it impossible for Nicholas to solemnly promise to abdicate the throne after the victory and to promise deep reforms in Russia after the victory? This single act of the tsar would have reduced the intensity of political passions in Russian society. !!! And it would not have cost Nikolai anything at all - on the contrary, it even slightly improved his image .. But no !!! The tsar was apparently almost feeble-minded, or that most likely a completely weak-willed person and was not even capable of such a thing !!!

        I think Nicholas through some clever intrigue led to the idea of ​​renunciation !!! Who benefits from the rapid fall of Russia ??? Naturally to the Germans !!! The entire period of the 1st World War (especially the initial stage) indicates the presence of a powerful German espionage network in the top Russian leadership !!! All major Russian offensive operations were known to the Germans, and none came as a surprise. And the abdication of the tsar was a kind of triumph for German intelligence.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 14 December 2020 19: 24
          -1
          Quote: Selevc
          Why was Nikolai so hastily to abdicate the throne ??? What such an urgent need for this arose in the 17th year ??? History knows cases when kings, kings and other such persons did not abdicate the throne even while standing on the scaffold !!!

          Is the fact that he was in the hands of the conspirators again disregarded? And those who did not renounce knew perfectly well that they would be killed anyway.
          Quote: Selevc
          Why was it impossible for Nicholas to solemnly promise to abdicate the throne after the victory and to promise deep reforms in Russia after the victory?

          Probably because those who tried to get hold of power wanted this power, and not some kind of reforms. A revolutionary wants a revolution and is almost always a waste of time to negotiate with him.
          Quote: Selevc
          I think Nicholas by some clever intrigue led to the idea of ​​renunciation !!

          In a way, it is. He was simply confronted with the fact that all the elites of the country acted as participants in the conspiracy and he simply had no one to rely on.
        2. samosad
          samosad 15 December 2020 05: 25
          +1
          Well ... when you are asked to abdicate by five generals, it is understandable that in case of refusal, an accident can occur ...
  • Romanov
    Romanov 14 December 2020 12: 16
    0
    "... that to Admiral Kolchak, who had declared himself by that time the" Supreme Ruler of Russia "without false modesty, some kind of Romanov with his family was not only useless, but in fact, dangerous?"

    The quality of the "content" is getting worse ... (((((Was it possible not to skip at least such an illiterate elementary thing? Conclusions are also being drawn))) Kolchak became the supreme ruler in November 1918, no Kolchakites captured Yekaterinburg, they were White Czechs and other anti-Bolshevik detachments ... Kolchak was in general in China at that time, he commanded troops in the alienation zone of the CER.
  • Azamat Ramazanov
    Azamat Ramazanov 14 December 2020 12: 30
    +3
    The tsar kept his money in London and considerable. danced
    1. Jünger
      Jünger 14 December 2020 16: 40
      -3
      Quote: Azamat Ramazanov
      And so the grandmother went to George. The tsar was still a thief. His country was washed away by shell hunger during the war, and he fattened and danced at feasts

      Azamat, you are such Azamat ...
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 14 December 2020 12: 46
    0
    Quote: Olddetractor
    The uncle of the Tsarevich, Klimenty Nagorny, was canonized among the servants of the royal family, killed by the Soviet regime, at the ROCOR Council of Bishops on November 14, 1981. Perhaps you are writing about another sailor uncle, Khokhla Derevenko, but this is a completely different story


    Well, you yourself write: "at the Bishops' Council ROCOR November 14 1981 years", ie the Russian Orthodox Church ABROAD... Agree, the ROCOR and the ROC are not exactly the same ... Our dear Russian Orthodox Church - alas, alas, alas ...
  • Altona
    Altona 14 December 2020 23: 34
    0
    did the emperor and his family have a chance of salvation?
    ---------------------------------
    Isn't it "citizen Romanov"? Too shy to ask. After the abdication, he is no emperor.
  • samosad
    samosad 15 December 2020 05: 22
    -1
    I treat Nicholas as a tsar negatively ..., as they say, I got what I deserved. But for the sake of truth, it should be noted that he renounced "at gunpoint" five, if memory serves, Naganov. So, there is no need to talk about voluntary renunciation.
    1. Tamer
      Tamer 15 December 2020 11: 08
      0
      yes, there were 5 revolvers, and they also asked for "machine guns, more grenades, and one mine" (c), to be sure
  • Sychev Vitalii
    Sychev Vitalii 16 December 2020 09: 48
    0
    They didn't get a chance. They were practically of no use to anyone (neither the broad masses, nor the European monarchs, including the British, nor the Whites, nor the Socialist-Revolutionaries, nor, even more so, the Reds), with the exception, perhaps, of a small handful of possessed monarchists. The Bolsheviks took upon themselves the heavy burden of liquidation ...
  • Sneaky Urus
    Sneaky Urus 17 December 2020 23: 37
    0
    What kind of Kolchakites in the summer of 1918? !!! smile The author urgently needs to learn the materiel. The article is weak, pseudo-historical
  • Alanart
    Alanart 19 December 2020 01: 54
    0
    Let's call a spade a spade - the descendants of Karl Peter Ulrich von Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp and Sophia Augusta Frederika von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg and the Romanovs is not entirely correct to call them;)
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 19 December 2020 08: 44
    0
    There is a conversation about the tsar's father, and the elderly gentlemen on the site again began an eternal dispute about the 58-year-old "boy" Kirienko. Why was the Hero given? Yes for the development of the nuclear industry. That is, when Rogozin is famous for his songs and songs, and Musk somehow cannot wipe his nose, then the current government is to blame and Rogozin and Chubais personally are to blame, but Angara was launched, so here is the merit of these elderly gentlemen. Where is the logic
  • Yuri Gagarin
    Yuri Gagarin 19 December 2020 10: 39
    0
    Author, I certainly apologize, but the word "renounce" was not in the emperor's letter. There was a condition on the transfer of power under certain conditions that were not met. If conditions are not met, there is no transfer of power.
  • Forever so
    Forever so 23 December 2020 20: 38
    0
    After 80% of the liberalizing king provided the American FRS with finances, he was no longer needed. Again, the Rothschild HATED the Romanov family, and since the Russian Empire, according to the Rothschild and other Morgan plan, was to disappear, the Romanov family should have disappeared too. So if we could get access to the archives of the Jewish clans of America, we would obviously be able to find out exactly who, how, and where.
  • Ham
    Ham 23 January 2021 22: 28
    -1
    the tsar was a weakling ... and, having fallen into the hands of whites, he could well have become the "banner" of the monarchists ... again because of his weakness and weakness!
    having direct relatives in the British royal house, he could well have called on his relatives to fight in Russia ... they really got it right, but after the death of Nicholas it was no longer a disguised intervention ...
    I must say that the bourgeois leaders who replaced Nicholas were even more mediocre and puppet
    and therefore, after the "color revolution" of February, the proletarian October revolution burst out because the Bolsheviks were much more resolutely alert than the bourgeois-liberal mumbles and knew exactly what they wanted ...
    whatever one may say, the majority of the population of Russia supported the Bolsheviks - whose slogans were close and understandable to them, in contrast to the blizzard carried by the leadership of the "whites", whose main slogan was: "we will defeat the communists and then we will figure it out"
  • fif21
    fif21 16 February 2021 18: 39
    0
    Dog - dog death! hi