Military Review

Polemics: Does Moscow Need All Ukraine?

296

Source: UP9 - Own work made in 3D. Wikimedia Commons


About differently rebels


In Crimea, which “got up correctly”, having stood for two days with sticks at checkpoints (medals are still being handed out), and then transferred all responsibility to “polite people,” the referendum was greeted with folk festivities and general delight. Then the Crimeans received passports together and rejoiced at the high salaries. Then, when salaries were lowered, correlating with the Krasnodar Territory, and the population, accustomed to Ukrainian lawlessness, discovered the need to pay taxes and honor the labor and land codes, enthusiasm diminished. As a result, having tasted a new life, some residents of the peninsula began to recall with nostalgia the times before the referendum, when it was possible to seize land, build without permission, pay in an envelope and settle dozens of “nephews” and “nieces” in a guest house in the summer. And many even kept their Ukrainian passports in order to regularly travel to Ukraine. Like, for example, the deputy of the Yevpatoriya city council, Sergei Osminin, who was arrested in early April 2018 in Ukraine, who, apparently, was never able to say goodbye to the "nenka".

In Donbass, a referendum was held on its own and was greeted with no less enthusiasm, even if the clause on reunification with the Russian Federation was cleared from there. The best of the best have been dying here for the seventh year, the population is a thousand times more worthy of Russian passports, even though it “got up wrong”. Moreover, full certification, and not 200 thousand documents per year, which implies the end of the process in 15-20 years. So: in Donbass, too, not everything is so simple. And it's not about the secret and obvious supporters of Ukraine, who periodically try to hold an Evening of Ukrainian Rock in the center of Donetsk (it really happened) or quietly sabotage the work of government agencies. The point is in the rudiments of the Ukrainian mentality, which does not imply such concepts as "law", "responsibility", "honesty" or "the good of society." A mentality that turns any good deeds, undertakings or resources into personal gain, and blows the rest to the whistle.

Are pensions and wages raised? Local manufacturers and retailers, including those working with the government, immediately run to raise prices to loud applause from the regulatory authorities. Is money allocated for the development of civil society and youth? They are sawed, and for a little bit, walking flagpoles are voluntarily and forcibly summoned and then walk in formation and sing patriotic songs! Do you have money for culture? There is a billiard tournament with a budget of 10 million and a beauty contest in which someone's middle-aged woman wins. But what is there - it is enough to remember how in 2014-2015 humanitarian aid and stew intended for soldiers were provided in stores and pharmacies ... Years go by, and some qualitative changes have not been and are not expected. And if the LDNR failed to build something advantageously different from Ukraine (in economic and social aspects), it is not so much the fault of the “curators”, but primarily of the local functionaries.

Anatomy of a protest


And this, mind you, is the most Russian of the Russian-speaking population living in the territory of the former Ukraine. Orthodox, patriarchal, oriented with every fiber of their soul to Russia. But - distorted by living in Ukraine to such an extent that now, in the atmosphere of relative legality that has been established in the Russian Federation in the last decade, they feel like strangers and everywhere try to "cut corners", cheat, etc. What can we say about those who are in In 2014, with oxen calmness looked at the ongoing coup d'etat, and then at the genocide of the population of Donbass, and calmly looks at it to this day? How many percent of the population protested in the Southeast? In Zaporozhye and Kherson, several thousand people attended rallies. In Odessa and Nikolaev - 10-20 thousand. In Kharkov - up to fifty, perhaps. Moreover, no one was seriously ready to fight, but everyone was desperately fighting for a microphone and some fictitious titles, hoping for Russian help, funding and future benefits. In fairness, it should be said that this circus even in Donetsk took place almost until July 2014, and in a sense it is still happening today.

How Russian are the Russian-speaking residents of Ukraine today, after six years of furious propaganda and a submissive transfer of one and a half percent of their salaries for military needs (i.e., the murder of former compatriots)? How Russian are their children? How many of these children are ready-made Red Guards who will quite realistically engage in sabotage, subversion, etc. And what to do with the fanatical representatives of the Ukrainian-speaking minority (in Ukraine, in reality, Ukrainian, as a native language, has always been used by the minority)? What to do with these people who have been aggressive towards Russia for more than one generation?

Isn't it easier to save from this den of all those who are ready to assimilate in Russia and become a part of it than, without having dealt with the mass of internal problems and contradictions, take on the allowance of millions of people who can speak Russian, but who do not consider themselves Russian or ready to somehow defend their belonging to the Russian World? It might be worth saving some part, but which one? The question is polemical, on the verge of a foul, but it is relevant, and not only for Ukraine.

For the ruble


The economic factor is equally important. Russia is huge, poorly studied and unsettled - gas supply in the vicinity of many cities is an unattainable miracle of civilization. The country has just begun to crawl out of the hole, and there is still a lot of work (as well as the risks of falling back). Are the Russian people ready to take on the balance sheet a poverty-stricken state without infrastructure, agriculture and industry, with land depleted by technical cultures and a population that is old and corrupted? Will it overstrain? And most importantly: why does anyone need this today? Except, of course, the Ukrainians themselves, who, although they will be eternally unhappy, in fact, would be very happy if someone suddenly took them for allowance.

You can try to establish order in Ukraine remotely. You can neatly “make friends” with those who come after putting things in order. You can even somehow interact with the current dog-heads. But why do we need all this dubious "jackpot" in its entirety? Resources, black soil, territory - Russia has more of all this than it is still able to master. Let them settle in these territories loyal to Moscow immigrants from Ukraine - there are special programs for this, and they are more effective and efficient every year. So why shed the blood of a Russian soldier (and pluck taxpayers), freeing the Russian-speaking population of the conditional Lutsk, which is in no hurry to liberate itself, and, moreover, does not feel itself in the occupation? Are the potential benefits of a military-strategic nature really so important if socio-cultural and economic circumstances (the same sanctions) can deal a crushing blow to Russia?

This topic is complex, multi-layered and requires comprehensive reflection. It is important and necessary to talk about it, and not only in articles and blogs, but much more broadly. Moreover, to speak, distancing ourselves from the cloth nationalism, which offers to immediately collect all the lands of the USSR, so that later you don’t know what to do with them next, and from chauvinist statements about “not enough Russians”. However, so far Moscow's actions are even overly restrained. And there, who knows, maybe, having become better acquainted with the manifestations of the original Ukrainian mentality in Crimea and Donbass, Moscow will draw some conclusions and finally develop a harmonious and comprehensive position, giving answers to all questions.
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 7 December 2020 12: 07
    -6
    All of course, but why then did our ancestors watered this land with blood to give it away?
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 7 December 2020 12: 11
      +30
      Quote: Pessimist22
      All of course, but why then did our ancestors watered this land with blood to give it away?

      We don't need Zapadentsev. This is a "black sheep" - which spoils the whole flock.
      Let the Poles cut them out ... we'll see whose Lvov.
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 7 December 2020 12: 17
        +4
        Poles ...... on a collar and not Lvov! Let them go to Poland, our territories.
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 7 December 2020 12: 52
          +29
          Fuck that Lvov. there are basically no Russians there. There are already so mutated minds that it is to take a rattlesnake in your bosom. Let's be honest, Lviv entered the USSR only after the Second World War. So trying to re-educate Westerners is a stupid thing. The same can be said about Frankivsk, Uzhgorod, perhaps even about Chernivtsi. It will be good to draw the western border somewhere. True, the Vinitsa region is also "lost". Kiev definitely needs to be taken. but the question is correct: after taking a bite, shall we choke?
          1. dorz
            dorz 7 December 2020 13: 06
            +17
            This topic is complex, multi-layered and requires comprehensive reflection ...

            While we will "comprehend" and "harness", it will be too late. The famous filmmaker said on this occasion: "It's time for Russia to decide whether it is an Empire or a trading company that lays pipes and sells goods to everyone?"
            1. silver_roman
              silver_roman 7 December 2020 13: 10
              +6
              this is understandable, just biting off "shit", you can sleep with the poisoning. and then the jackals will tear apart in parts. There are claims to the Russian Federation from all sides. In the Far East, Japan is just waiting for the moment ...
              1. Sergey Medvedev
                Sergey Medvedev 7 December 2020 14: 16
                +6
                Quote: silver_roman
                biting off "shit"

                Neither Poland, nor the United States, nor Germany and Hungary, Ukraine is not shit, and Lvov is not shit. And only we got divorced "gourmets" who turn up their snouts from the Russian people living on the Russian land, watered with Russian blood. Where do you come from? Lovers to distribute the Kemsky volosts from right to left.
                1. silver_roman
                  silver_roman 7 December 2020 14: 25
                  +15
                  how harsh you are in terms, clever "blood-shedder" .... where have you seen the Russian people in Lvov? have you ever been to Lviv? nerd damn .... heard about Kraivka? A cafe where you can't speak Russian, where portraits of all sorts of Banderas are hung ... and the saddest thing is, where do you get such that you can't stand the lessons from history? Do you want to take Lviv? then go and clean it up, drive it through the Carpathians, spill even more blood, so that ten years later again the holes in the back will be filled with knives from the citizens of your country. if you want Lviv, let it be lions in vassal form, as you want to call it, but taking it within your borders AGAIN is idiocy.
                  Just last week I talked to one of Lviv. do you know what he told me? That we-Russians have stolen Orthodoxy from them. I answered him: "Lviv is a former Polish city in the overwhelming majority of Catholics." But he apparently turned out to be Orthodox. Apparently, the ancestors moved there and preserved the Russian faith, but it did not work out to grow up a tanned son normal. And it's not some guy in the pub that told me that, it's a respected lawyer. Think about it.
                  1. Sergey Medvedev
                    Sergey Medvedev 7 December 2020 14: 40
                    -3
                    Quote: silver_roman
                    then go and clean

                    Chechnya already had to be cleaned out. Now Kadyrov is Putin's infantryman. Evaluate the result. And Lviv can and should be cleaned. Zelensky will rename Bandera Avenue to Putin Avenue.
                    And you, the proponent of the destruction of Russia, go prepare arguments for the surrender of the Kuril Islands to Japan.
                    1. Mikle2000
                      Mikle2000 7 December 2020 15: 01
                      +15
                      Only for some reason after this cleansing there were no Russians left in Chechnya. Are you ready to get behind the wheel of a car, put your wife on the right, your 15-year-old daughter in the back seat and take a ride for a week through the cities of Chechnya, like Russian cities? And I'm not ready.
                      1. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 7 December 2020 15: 49
                        +4
                        Quote: Mikle2000
                        Are you ready to get behind the wheel of a car, put your wife on the right, your 15-year-old daughter in the back seat and take a ride for a week through the cities of Chechnya, like Russian cities? And I'm not ready.

                        in vain ... it is safer in Chechnya than in most (if not all) regions of the Russian Federation.
                      2. Victorio
                        Victorio 7 December 2020 17: 43
                        +4
                        Quote: Mikle2000
                        The point is in the rudiments of the Ukrainian mentality, which does not imply such concepts as "law", "responsibility", "honesty" or "the good of society."

                        ===
                        it is you in vain. You can find bandits on the roads everywhere. and secondly, the Chechens at home are not quite the same Chechens as in Moscow and other large cities of Russia.
                    2. silver_roman
                      silver_roman 7 December 2020 15: 40
                      +1
                      They answered you from below about the mopping-up operations, but I didn't understand whether you personally were in Chechnya or are you generalizing? That and Lvov are not Chechnya. Not to be confused.
                      And everyone remembers the horror of Chechnya. Few people want this and it is not clear whether it is necessary.
                      And again, what does the Kuril Islands have to do with it? I don’t remember that the Kurils were inhabited by traitors, scum and fascists, and they didn’t complain much about the collapse of the USSR. So do not confuse such different things. The difference is that I am not a complete liberalist, but really think about the best.
                      Well, where should I go, I'll figure it out myself.
                      1. Sergey Medvedev
                        Sergey Medvedev 8 December 2020 09: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: silver_roman
                        have you personally been to Chechnya or are you generalizing

                        Yes, he was. And you go prepare a justification for the surrender of Kaliningrad to Germany.
                      2. silver_roman
                        silver_roman 8 December 2020 12: 08
                        0
                        here you like to send. Considering what you write, I see no reason to explain anything to you. In any case, thank you for your service, as long as you don’t break.
                      3. Sergey Medvedev
                        Sergey Medvedev 8 December 2020 12: 23
                        +3
                        Quote: silver_roman
                        here you like to send.

                        And you are the same. He sent all of Ukraine, smeared the Galicians with shit. And then we wonder why Ukraine is still not Russia. Bandera are pulling them, some Russians are sending them. Where do the Ukrainians go?
                        And then you come up with reasons that Ukraine is not needed. Well, like that grape, that same fox.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                  1. sleeve
                    sleeve 8 December 2020 05: 12
                    +1
                    We are afraid. And there is nothing to do. Here only time heals. Moreover, in the case of this territory, twice, or even three times longer ...
                3. Yuri Kabaev
                  Yuri Kabaev 14 December 2020 14: 13
                  0
                  "Now Kadyrov is Putin's infantryman. Assess the result."
                  ===
                  Appreciated. It turned out to be a huge amount of money. It turned out to pay tribute to the Chechens. NO RUSSIANS RETURNED TO Chechnya! They also appreciated the "achievements" of the Chechens. It was easier to give them complete independence, but to destroy all the Wahhabis.
                  1. Sergey Medvedev
                    Sergey Medvedev 14 December 2020 22: 50
                    +1
                    I did not work in the Kremlin and did not pour money into Chechnya. On this topic, claims are not for me.
                  2. Yuri Kabaev
                    Yuri Kabaev 15 December 2020 12: 21
                    0
                    So you asked, "rate."
                    I appreciated it.
                    We pay tribute to the Chechens.
                    Russians won't live there.
                    A hundred more years.
                  3. Sergey Medvedev
                    Sergey Medvedev 15 December 2020 21: 51
                    0
                    Quote: Yuri Kabaev
                    I appreciated it.

                    Present your assessments of the Kremlin's actions to Putin. I haven't worked in the Kremlin yet.
          2. Andrey Nenakhov
            Andrey Nenakhov 9 December 2020 12: 07
            +2
            And he does not know about the Poles in Lviv because the MOST of the population of western Ukraine and not "zapadentsy" at all, but resettled from 1939 to the present !!! Ordinary Russians, Ukrainians, Jews and other peoples !!! but "zapadentsy" and Russophobes made them propaganda and inculcation of hatred towards all dissidents!
          3. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
            tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 9 December 2020 13: 02
            +1
            I was in that cry in 2014, in May. He spoke Russian. Of course it was disgusting. He brought the same newspapers, for "long memory", and to his friends who organized this tour for me, he said - you shouldn't be joking with this, this memory will shoot at you. They DIDN'T Hear. I called on the phone (there is one in the niche - pre-war) GDP, asked for "fire on myself" or at least a couple of grenades. A joke, of course. Sad. But not everything is so simple and clear with Westerners.
        2. Overlock
          Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 38
          +41
          Quote: Sergei Medvedev
          And only we got divorced "gourmets" who turn up their snouts from the Russian people living on the Russian land, watered with Russian blood.

          how much Russian blood has been shed in Bulgaria? Can we take Bulgaria away from .. Bulgarians?
          1. 16329
            16329 8 December 2020 17: 37
            0
            At one time, if they could, they took it, unfortunately they could not
        3. Yuri Kabaev
          Yuri Kabaev 14 December 2020 13: 47
          -1
          "" gourmets "who turn up their snouts from the Russian people living on Russian soil, watered with Russian blood. Where do you come from? Those who like to distribute the Kemsky volosts from right to left."
          ===
          Those. first it is necessary to carry out a purge in Galicia and destroy half of the so-called. "Russian people", with a Bandera worldview, and then those who remain to join?
          1. Sergey Medvedev
            Sergey Medvedev 14 December 2020 22: 51
            0
            Quote: Yuri Kabaev
            Those. first it is necessary to carry out a purge in Galicia and destroy half of the so-called. "Russian people", with a Bandera worldview, and then those who remain to join?

            Whose plan is this?
            1. Yuri Kabaev
              Yuri Kabaev 15 December 2020 12: 23
              0
              Yes, those who, without understanding, declare that Galicia is a Russian land.
              Here you are, for example.
              Or do you want to attach the source of gangrene to Russia ?.
              So even Pyotr Durnovo warned her, Galicia, to join.
              1. Sergey Medvedev
                Sergey Medvedev 15 December 2020 21: 49
                0
                Quote: Yuri Kabaev
                Here you are, for example.

                I didn't suggest that. Don't hang your dogs on me.
                Quote: Yuri Kabaev
                Those. first it is necessary to carry out a purge in Galicia and destroy half of the so-called. "Russian people", with a Bandera worldview, and then those who remain to join?

                Your words!
                And gangrene is everywhere. There are people in St. Petersburg who installed a memorial plaque for Mannerheim. Go prepare a plan for Peter's surrender to the Finns. Or the Swedes. Well, you’ll figure out how to deal with gangrene.
      2. Cuba
        Cuba 8 December 2020 07: 46
        -1
        We didn't have enough French ones yet !!
        ... Let, as before, the farm laborers!
    2. NEOZ
      NEOZ 7 December 2020 14: 02
      +7
      Quote: dorz
      It's time for Russia to decide whether it is an Empire or a trading company that lays pipes and sells goods to everyone?

      however, Britain became an empire only through world trade and control ...
      1. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 7 December 2020 16: 44
        +3
        Quote: NEOZ
        Britain became an empire only thanks to world trade and control over it ...
        India, Pakistan, China, from reading this, in quiet shock.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 7 December 2020 17: 10
          +2
          Quote: Egor-dis
          India, Pakistan, China, from reading this, in quiet shock.

          Why?
          1. 16329
            16329 8 December 2020 17: 39
            +1
            Because they were subdued by military means and then received trade preferences, and not vice versa
      2. 16329
        16329 8 December 2020 17: 41
        +1
        It is necessary to change places, in the first place control over trade routes after the defeat of Spain, Holland and the French Revolution, which ditched the sea power of France
    3. Vladimir Mashkov
      Vladimir Mashkov 8 December 2020 21: 44
      +3
      Quote: dorz
      While we will "comprehend" and "harness", it will be too late. A well-known film director said in this regard: "It is time for Russia to decide, is it an Empire or a trading company that lays pipes and sells goods to everyone?"

      As for whether or not it is necessary to annex Ukraine and other limitrophes (a buzzword today) - necessary! In what form and quality is the second question, but attach necessarily need! And not for the sake of the people living there (doubtful from the point of view of some), but for Russia! There are many reasons for it, but the simplest one is just look at the map with a non-complex gaze and think carefully! Yes, there will be problems. But Russia has always successfully solved them and strengthened itself!

      Anticipating the objections of selfish critics, I address them recently spoken words by someone, a question not of a famous director, but of another person: "Gentlemen, are you for the Empire or for your stingy goon petty selfish bookkeeping and pocket?"
  2. New Year day
    New Year day 7 December 2020 13: 40
    +7
    Quote: silver_roman
    The same can be said about Frankivsk, Uzhgorod, perhaps even about Chernivtsi. It will be good to draw the western border somewhere. True, the Vinitsa region is also "lost". Kiev definitely needs to be taken. ..

    I already once wrote that out of 36-37 ATO battalions in Central and Eastern Ukraine, an overwhelming majority - more than 30 - were formed.
    Here is an illustration of the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces by regions

    As you can see, these regions of Ukraine account for the overwhelming number of deaths. Therefore, the question
    Quote: silver_roman
    and after taking a bite, shall we choke?

    very relevant, like another question, do they want to go to Russia?
    We reason in territories, and there live people who already think differently.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 December 2020 14: 03
      +2
      Quote: Silvestr
      very relevant, like another question, do they want to go to Russia?
      We reason in territories, and there live people who already think differently.

      It is necessary to recall and evaluate the experience that the USSR received after the annexation of the western territories and the Baltic States in 1939-1940, with a population of 15 million. And this was before the beginning of the Second World War. Many people know what happened with the outbreak of the war, but many can guess.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 7 December 2020 14: 07
        +1
        Quote: tihonmarine
        It is necessary to recall and evaluate the experience that the USSR received after the annexation of the western territories and the Baltic States in 1939-1940, with a population of 15 million. And this was before the beginning of the Second World War.

        and remember how the Bandera movement ended
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 7 December 2020 14: 10
          +8
          Quote: Silvestr
          and remember how the Bandera movement ended

          And it never ended.
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 8 December 2020 21: 16
          +2
          Quote: Silvestr
          and remember how the Bandera movement ended

          Another bad thing is that many people (very much) do not understand the fullness of the tragedy that occurred in 1941, and which was facilitated to a large extent by these 15 million, which the NKVD did not have time to go through before the war began.
          The Germans knew the location of even hidden airfields, warehouses, the location of tank and artillery formations, and the movement of troops. Almost all wire communications were destroyed, not by the forces of Brandenburg, but by these "elements" of 15 million bandit formations, etc. And after the war, they continued to harm, and then their children and grandchildren.
          So before attaching something, you need to think, "What will happen next?"
      2. garik77
        garik77 8 December 2020 18: 20
        +3
        We also need to look at the statistics of the evasion from mobilization by region and then everything will become clear.
        The second important factor here is the preferences of the Western officers, who basically decided who to throw into the minefields in the bayonet, and who to save for looting the civilians.
    2. NEOZ
      NEOZ 7 December 2020 14: 03
      -7
      Quote: Silvestr
      We reason in territories, and there live people who already think differently.

      clean up ...
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 7 December 2020 14: 07
        +12
        Quote: NEOZ
        clean up ..

        half of the population? request
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 7 December 2020 14: 42
          -3
          Quote: Silvestr
          half of the population?

          10% of 50% (half of the population), the remaining 40% of fear will not even be able to think about anything (this was the case during the formation of the USSR), and their children will already be their own (ours) mentally.
          ps
          the cancer is excised, isn't it, doc?
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Dmitriy66
        Dmitriy66 7 December 2020 19: 12
        +2
        I wonder what does comrade NEOZ put into the word “clean up”?
        And how many associates does he have, well, so as not to fall under a stray bullet ..
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 8 December 2020 12: 43
          +2
          Quote: Dmitriy66
          I wonder what does comrade NEOZ put into the word “clean up”?

          10% of 50% (half of the population), the remaining 40% of fear will not even be able to think about anything (this was the case during the formation of the USSR), and their children will already be their own (ours) mentally.
          cleansing is either a prison or a grave ... you can send into exile in regions with extremely low Maidan thoughts.
    3. Alekseev
      Alekseev 7 December 2020 14: 43
      +9
      Quote: Silvestr
      We reason in territories, and there live people who already think differently.

      That's right!
      But, however, "not everyone thinks differently, in Ukraine, for example, the dictatorship of an aggressive minority, or rather the West, which uses this minority. So it is necessary to separate the" wheat from the chaff ", sometimes, perhaps, together with the territories. But, far from always, the main thing, of course, is the desire of people.
      It is necessary, first of all, to develop our state, order in it, and "people will reach out to us." The territories do not have to be included in the Russian Federation (and maintained at its expense). There the USA and Canada and other Western countries are not one state, but many of them listen to Uncle Sam like trained dogs.
      Changes in the borders of states are not at all nonsense, this is the norm after the collapse of the empire. But this is a complex process, sometimes with a military component, but mainly with a cultural and economic component.
    4. Egor-dis
      Egor-dis 7 December 2020 16: 59
      +3
      Quote: Silvestr
      As you can see, these regions of Ukraine account for the overwhelming number of deaths.
      The death toll does not necessarily correlate with the number of those called up. And the number of those called up (even if it correlates with the number of those killed) indicates rather a mobilization potential than the stubbornness of the local population. Farms in Western Ukraine simply do not have so many recruits.
  3. qQQQ
    qQQQ 7 December 2020 14: 44
    +9
    Quote: silver_roman
    Kiev definitely needs to be taken. but the question is correct: after taking a bite, shall we choke?

    There is no need to take it, since 91 it’s been hammered into our brains that if it weren’t for Russia, everyone would have healed to envy, and if you take it, then this tale will remain in our brains and our "partners" will periodically work out this idea. They should fall on their own and realizing that without Russia they are nobody, crawl to us, like Khmelnitsky, and then options are possible.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 8 December 2020 12: 12
      +1
      During the time of their independence, they have already been so full that people (not those media creatures, but the ordinary Ukrainian people), in general, do not attribute themselves to anything. They don't care, if only to feed the children, they themselves will not die of hunger.
      1. qQQQ
        qQQQ 8 December 2020 15: 20
        +3
        Quote: silver_roman
        people (not those media creatures, but ordinary Ukrainian people), in general, do not refer to themselves to anything

        In this case, you are wrong, it is clearly in everyone's head that the Russians are ashamed, and if we carry out any political events through voting, then we have practically no support there. For us, there are two options: to wait for themselves and crawl (very long, but surely), or a forceful and eternal tale in their heads about a better life, which they were again deprived of.
        1. Icarus
          Icarus 10 December 2020 19: 28
          0
          There are two options for us, to wait for them to crawl (very long, but surely)
          .
          This is unlikely. There won't be anything for sure. Already now children have been brainwashed in schools that Russians are their enemies and that they are different - non-Russians. And when they grow up (many have already grown up), we will finally become with them, at best, strangers, and most likely - enemies. Given the aggressive propaganda in dill, time is not on our side. Therefore, the power option is not the worst (if you think for the long term), but it cannot be postponed for a long time until generations have changed.
          1. qQQQ
            qQQQ 10 December 2020 22: 01
            0
            Quote: Icarus
            from this it is unlikely. There won't be anything for sure. Already now children have been brainwashed in schools that Russians are their enemies and that they are different - non-Russians.

            It's true, but hunger (I'm thickening the colors a little) knocks the crap out of my head very well, remember the USSR how they worked on ideology there and still took their own way of life, that's why I write that the first option is very long, but they will still leave Bandera and come to Khmelnitsky.
  4. Machito
    Machito 7 December 2020 15: 34
    +2
    Quote: silver_roman
    Fuck that Lvov. there are basically no Russians there. There are already so mutated minds that it is to take a rattlesnake in your bosom. Let's be honest, Lviv entered the USSR only after the Second World War. So trying to re-educate Westerners is a stupid thing. The same can be said about Frankivsk, Uzhgorod, perhaps even about Chernivtsi. It will be good to draw the western border somewhere. True, the Vinitsa region is also "lost". Kiev definitely needs to be taken. but the question is correct: after taking a bite, shall we choke?

    We need the territories of Little Russia: Lviv, Uzhgorod, and Chernivtsi. All these lands are abundantly watered with Russian blood. But we don't need a pot-headed population: let them go back to their Poland, it’s uncomfortable for slaves to live without Panov.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 8 December 2020 12: 14
      +1
      So how do you get them out? everyone has already acquired their own house, a vegetable garden ... and the psheki, so as not to lose theirs, they will swear in love to you until the grave, and the hard hour will be stuck in the back. In short, the question is difficult.
  5. Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 7 December 2020 16: 06
    +6
    Quote: silver_roman
    Let's be honest, Lviv entered the USSR only after the Second World War

    On November 14, November 1939, the third Extraordinary Session of the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR decided: "To accept Western Ukraine into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic and thereby reunite the Ukrainian people in a single Ukrainian state."
    The decision to submit petitions was stipulated in the Declaration "On the entry of Western Ukraine into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic", adopted by the People's Assembly of Western Ukraine in Lvov on October 27, 1939.
    Before the Second World War, another 2 years.
    Well, Tehran, Yalta and Potsdam only consolidated this decision for the leading powers and the whole world.
    Poland recognized in 1945.
  6. 210ox
    210ox 8 December 2020 05: 28
    0
    What is there Lev. In Crimea, damn it, I heard and read in VK that the ears wither. Kerch, the construction of the railway station and "Tavrida" is underway .. Constant whining, not building there, give me money .... It's not like that. So take it and build it yourself. Yes, now there are a lot of dissatisfied people (by the way, with Ukrainian passports - locals). In Yalta, near the Bristol hotel, there are cars with ukronomers, asked the security guards, do they come a lot? Yes, it's local, the hotel staff says. We have to go to our relatives, it’s easier over the hill. So they walk around with two passports and numbers of a foreign country.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 8 December 2020 08: 55
      +2
      Ha, was in this hotel. The wonderful honey cake there tasted. By the way, in the Russian Federation, dual citizenship is allowed, in contrast to Ukraine.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 8 December 2020 15: 45
        +1
        I believe that dual citizenship is evil for our country
      2. Niel-le-Calais
        Niel-le-Calais 9 December 2020 00: 24
        0
        Quote: silver_roman
        By the way, in the Russian Federation, dual citizenship is allowed, in contrast to Ukraine.

        It is not prohibited.
        The principle of uniform citizenship is affirmed in the Constitution and in Articles 2 and 19 of the Citizenship Law. According to them, Ukraine has a single citizenship, and provided that the Ukrainian has received one more - Ukrainian citizenship is lost.
        At the same time, there are no laws that in any way punish for dual citizenship - Ukraine simply does not recognize the fact of second citizenship.

        just the priority of the Ukrainian passport on the territory of Ukraine. And they don't care about the rest of the passports. Everything in the world. The recent case with the Crimeans on Nord (they have a Russian passport, but they are holders of Ukrainian citizenship - and they were responsible before the court as Ukrainians, not Russians).
        About a quarter of the population of the border regions have several passports.
        If there were laws that at least somehow punished for double, triple and other citizenship, then Ukraine would not have a quarter of the population that lives with two or more passports on its territory and a chance to Crimea (Russian passports were distributed there, but they are still Ukrainians according to the priority of a passport on the territory of Ukraine)
        It is very difficult to leave Ukrainian citizenship.
  • hydroy
    hydroy 8 December 2020 16: 02
    0
    fuck this Lviv, let the Poles get it!
  • Shadow041
    Shadow041 9 December 2020 15: 17
    +3
    Well, maybe to annex the territory, and deport all patients with Russophobia, like the Germans from Kaliningrad. It is troublesome, and if you leave the pro-Russian regions further within Ukraine, then in a few generations the Bandera will partly cut out and partly assimilate Donbass, Kharkov, Odessa, and then we will get new purely Bandera regions hostile to the Russian Federation.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 7 December 2020 12: 19
    +4
    IMHO - all the eastern lands, donated by the tsars and the Bolsheviks - to take back. The rest - let him live as he wants, there is still nothing useful and necessary. Only it is imperative to carry out a cleaning - send all the Westerners who have come in large numbers back. As well as active Banderlog. All contacts with the remnants of Tsegabonia should be terminated, the borders should be closed, and generally a strict quarantine should be declared.
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 7 December 2020 12: 37
      +8
      Quote: paul3390
      send all the Westerners who have come in large numbers back.

    2. 113262a
      113262a 7 December 2020 12: 37
      +10
      Well, the Bandera people who have come in large numbers NOT ON THEIR WILL and in Lugansk-a whole Banderka! The territory around 1DSK-Tsimlyanskaya and adjacent territories-In the early 60s they were taken to atone for their sins at construction sites in Donbass, to mines and mines, and then to chemistry, at construction sites. They were settled right there. Half of my class are children of these parents! There were specific kids! Little FRANCYUVATI, as they put it! There were definitely no excellent students among them ... Not that they were completely stupid, but the priorities in education were definitely different!
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 7 December 2020 14: 08
        +4
        Quote: 113262
        Half of my class are children of these parents! There were specific kids!

        What can we say about Lugansk, if there were such parents and their children in Transbaikalia. More than the "seven-year" no one further studied.
      2. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 7 December 2020 17: 06
        +2
        What school did you go to, if not a secret? There were acquaintances and classmates from Tsimlyanka. I would not say that there are many Westerners. Basically, the international is complete. Although specific inadequacies came across with Zapadensky surnames. But, however, not only from Tsimlyanka.
        1. 113262a
          113262a 7 December 2020 21: 35
          0
          All Tsimlyanka was assigned to school 38. As well as square. Shevchenko.
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 7 December 2020 14: 06
      +5
      Quote: paul3390
      IMHO - all the eastern lands, donated by the tsars and the Bolsheviks - to take back.

      by force? - There is no other way. Then the last opinion poll, for you:
      18 / 10 / 2020.
      Urgent readiness for war in Ukraine: opinion poll showed how many citizens are ready to take up arms on orders
      It turned out that 59% of citizens are ready to take part in real hostilities for the sake of their country.
      It is worth noting that the militancy of the Ukrainian people seems to grow every year. In 2019, a similar forecast showed a figure of 56%, in 2017 it was 54%, and back in 2012, only 33% of citizens expressed their readiness to take up arms.
      The survey was conducted by representatives of the Rating group.
      It is noteworthy that according to the poll, 85% of Ukrainians consider themselves patriots, and 12% of Ukrainians openly declare that they have no patriotic feelings towards Ukraine.
      https://nbnews.com.ua/obshchestvo/2020/10/18/srochnaya-gotovnost-k-voine-v-ukraine-sotsopros-pokazal-skolko-grazhdan-gotovy-vzyatsya-za-oruzhie-po-prikazu/
      It turns out that for the sake of conquering territories, you are ready to lay down the lives of our guys and get in return the Bandera movement in the rear? It should be recalled that the USSR did not succeed in crushing this hydra and we now see the results of this.
      And yet, blood only generates blood.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 7 December 2020 14: 12
        +5
        blood only generates blood.

        As life shows, inaction generates much more blood .. Where it would be possible to get by with a broken nose, everyone is cut out. So ..

        And about the readiness of ukrov to fight ...

        1. Overlock
          Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 42
          +36
          Quote: paul3390
          And about the readiness of ukrov to fight ...

          And who is fighting in the ATO now? Black people?
        2. 210ox
          210ox 8 December 2020 05: 34
          +1
          The fact that they did not dare in 2014, now there is nothing to count on.
      2. Egoza
        Egoza 7 December 2020 14: 55
        +3
        Quote: Silvestr
        It turned out that 59% of citizens are ready to take part in real hostilities for the sake of their country.

        All these polls ..... would try to answer differently in Ukraine!
      3. NEOZ
        NEOZ 7 December 2020 15: 37
        0
        Quote: Silvestr
        It should be recalled that the USSR did not succeed in crushing this hydra and we now see the results of this.

        how Bandera's people showed themselves from 60s to 89s. remind me, I don’t remember something ...
      4. NEOZ
        NEOZ 7 December 2020 15: 45
        0
        Quote: Silvestr
        It turned out that 59% of citizens are ready to take part in real hostilities for the sake of their country.

        hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        Well, where is the result of this readiness ???
        Well, maybe they have already taken the Donbass? or won the Crimea?
        ps
        The conclusion from this survey is that 59% of the population answer in the affirmative to the question "are you ready to take up arms" !!!!
        PPP
        well, in principle, but who prevents them from saying that they are ready .......
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 8 December 2020 08: 56
          0
          The question had to be posed differently: are you ready to receive a bullet for the sake of the country?
      5. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 7 December 2020 17: 14
        +6
        Quote: Silvestr
        59% of citizens are ready to take part in real hostilities for the sake of their country.
        And where were these 54-56-59% when they took Ilovaisk? And in Debaltseve, the percentage was even higher. And this entire percentage fled, leaving so many weapons and military equipment that we still use. It is more believed that the "Rating" group has revealed the number of Ukrainian players in counter and strikeball.
      6. Niel-le-Calais
        Niel-le-Calais 12 December 2020 21: 38
        0
        Quote: Silvestr
        It turns out that for the sake of conquering territories, you are ready to lay down the lives of our guys and get in return the Bandera movement in the rear?

        the poll was about weapons and patriotism. There were no questions about Bandera.
        Judging by the quote from the poll, you also have no answers, that all who are ready to fight must be Bandera and all the patriots of Bandera.
        They are Russians and Ukrainians of the country of Ukraine. It is logical that they will not defend Russia.
        The USSR offered the UNR nationalists an idea. And he hired many specialists, patriots of the UPR and the Directory. And everyone has equal rights and obligations.
        Someone after that began to fight for decades for the UPR? No. The Ukrainians fought for the USSR all the time of the Ukrainian SSR. Apart from the new territories in the memory. Except for the collaborators that every republic had, but that was the USSR. Everything was different there.
        The capitalist method is soft power. Not expensive, affordable, high quality and useful, but you need intelligence, not strength.
        Quote: Egor-dis
        And where were these 54-56-59% when they took Ilovaisk? And in Debaltsevo, the percentage was even higher.

        then half of the country in general was drowned for the Russian Federation, and for Ukraine, few people needed it in that chaos.
        And all this percentage fled, leaving so many weapons and military equipment that we still use
        .
        exactly. They threw tanks, fuel, shells for 7 years (even more) .. Even pumping from the "mines" is not necessary. At the same time, they throw $ 2 billion every year, but that is. by hidden articles.
  • fiberboard
    fiberboard 7 December 2020 15: 29
    +3
    But why? In Siberia, there are many descendants of Bandera, who were exiled here after the war. Now they are the same Russians. If you spread them from the Urals to Vladivostok, it will do.
  • Civil
    Civil 7 December 2020 12: 43
    +1
    Yes sir! I write down "It was ordered that Ukraine not want to go to Russia."
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 7 December 2020 13: 11
    -3
    blood has ALREADY been shed, but the likelihood that you will have to shed more blood and be left with an empty wallet is very high ... Ukrainians will still look "how is it in Europe? We want it the same way!" .. For me, we need a repatriation program , when Russians from all countries can return to Russia, get documents here, at least some housing and work. This will really increase the country's population and strengthen the economy
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok 7 December 2020 16: 13
      0
      Quote: Boris Chernikov
      For me, the repatriation program is so necessary, when Russians from all countries can return to Russia, get documents here, at least some housing and work.

      This program has been working for 12-13 years. And how many people wanted to move to Russia?
      1. Victorio
        Victorio 7 December 2020 18: 25
        +4
        Quote: Normal ok
        This program has been working for 12-13 years. And how many people wanted to move to Russia?

        ===
        it is clear that you should stretch your legs by the clothes, and you cannot compare with the German or Israeli. but here it is more likely what the program is, how it "works"
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 7 December 2020 18: 49
          -1
          therefore, it is necessary to carry out an explanatory policy with a clear formed program and interaction ... so that a person can write to the electronic reception / call the hotline and they will explain to him what documents need to have ... in fact, I think that any document confirming the right to Russian citizenship is sufficient, here is the only important one the moment you need a clear and quick check for participation in ter.organizations ... After the contract is drawn up ... the person chooses an approximate region where he wants to live and what he can do ... according to the most stringent option, we build a village from prefabricated houses and move a family of compatriots there and arrange him to work on the list .. and then either let him work at work or work and look for a new job ..
          1. Victorio
            Victorio 8 December 2020 12: 11
            +1
            Quote: Boris Chernikov
            therefore, it is necessary to carry out an explanatory policy with a clear formed program and interaction ... so that a person can write to the electronic reception / call the hotline and they will explain to him what documents need to have ... in fact, I think that any document confirming the right to Russian citizenship is sufficient, here is the only important one the moment you need a clear and quick check for participation in ter.organizations ... After the contract is drawn up ... the person chooses an approximate region where he wants to live and what he can do ... according to the most stringent option, we build a village from prefabricated houses and move a family of compatriots there and arrange him to work on the list .. and then either let him work at work or work and look for a new job ..

            ===
            if for me, it's easier convenient credit, lifting, informational support. and then the migrant himself decides according to his means and prospects. for the Germans it was like this: a region to choose from, a social apartment, lifting for the purchase of what is needed in it, an allowance for what time, courses, arrangement.
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 8 December 2020 12: 35
              0
              people will be ready to move if they are confident that: they will quickly receive documents, housing, children will go to school and they themselves will go to work ... this is what you need to strive for
              1. Victorio
                Victorio 8 December 2020 12: 40
                0
                Quote: Boris Chernikov
                people will be ready to move if they are confident that: they will quickly receive documents, housing, children will go to school and they themselves will go to work ... this is what you need to strive for

                ===
                you list things that are already available, to a greater or lesser extent, in the regions. documents are done before moving, the rest is already in place. But it is the migrants who need money, this is the main snag. funds cannot be given to local officials, for there will be extortion, theft.
                1. Boris Chernikov
                  Boris Chernikov 8 December 2020 12: 49
                  -1
                  that's the joke, the officials will give out money, but people are exactly what they are afraid of .. I think "well, in Russia, as always, carelessness" ... a clear scheme is needed
                  1. Victorio
                    Victorio 8 December 2020 12: 52
                    0
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    that's funnyofficials will give out money,but people are exactly what they are afraid of .. I think "well, in Russia, as always, carelessness" ... a clear scheme is needed

                    ===
                    the money is given by the state, then you decide where to go and what to do. on the ground provide assistance, information, accounting and other
                    1. Boris Chernikov
                      Boris Chernikov 8 December 2020 12: 58
                      -1
                      nope ... no one will agree to this ... because you need to buy tickets, draw up documents, prepare places for living ... so that people come to ready-made everything ... the problem with housing can, for example, be solved by creating prefabricated container-type houses
                    2. Victorio
                      Victorio 8 December 2020 23: 20
                      0
                      Quote: Boris Chernikov
                      by creating prefabricated container houses

                      ===
                      the picture is decent, just exemplary. in fact it is often not so. I remember in Kaliningrad for this program, in one of the villages, one of the Prussian barracks was repaired / restored - a hotel-type housing.
                    3. Boris Chernikov
                      Boris Chernikov 9 December 2020 14: 10
                      -2
                      and this is a question of supervision already..or do you think that making the officials of Ukraine work will be easier than ours?
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 7 December 2020 18: 44
    -1
    the problem is bad organization
  • Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 12 December 2020 21: 44
    0
    Quote: Normal ok
    This program has been working for 12-13 years. And how many people wanted to move to Russia?

    in the Odessa consulate it seems to have been closed for a long time or suspended.
  • Egor-dis
    Egor-dis 7 December 2020 18: 06
    +1
    Quote: Boris Chernikov
    For me, the repatriation program is so necessary, when Russians from all countries can return to Russia, get documents here, at least some housing and work.
    Inefficient and very, very costly. Do you have a family, children, your own house / apartment, do you have a good job? What do you need to give up all this and leave with your family 3-5 thousand km away, to places where there is "some kind of housing" and "some kind of work"? This will take off with young people who have neither a stake nor a yard, who are easy-going, and who, in principle, do not care about where to earn and build their lives. And the majority of Russians and Little Russians in Ukraine (aged 35 and above) strive for maximum settled life. You can only pick them off if you turn the terrain into a lunar landscape. Or, to manage to create conditions in the new place so that they are much better than in the old place. In any case (organization of relocation, public procurement of real estate, creation profile jobs, etc.) it will be very costly. It will be several times cheaper to grab the territory to reformat the local population in their habitats.
    1. Victorio
      Victorio 8 December 2020 12: 19
      +1
      Quote: Egor-dis
      It will be several times cheaper to grab the territory to reformat the local population in their habitats.

      ====
      it is impossible, now the West has more opportunities and enticements. and modern youth think down to earth. and those who think for the future are a minority. but the option with a national project, where money is invested in the region with the development of the entire infrastructure and the prospects for comprehensive development will be interesting. first to invite young specialists, workers, and then the rest will be pulled.
      1. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 8 December 2020 22: 01
        +1
        Quote: Victorio
        it is impossible, now the West has more opportunities and enticements. and modern youth think down to earth. and those who think for the future are a minority.
        Well, like this. For this, systematic work is needed to reformat thinking. The key word is systemic. Starting from school, MinObra and MnCult. There would be a desire.
        Well, national projects with regions are a must.
    2. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 8 December 2020 14: 03
      -2
      1) not everyone is doing well, especially taking into account the local peoples to the oppression of Russians. 2) if you give sooo good conditions, then our citizens will already start to play in the style of "why don't they give me this ?!" 3) ... which is simpler: to create conditions in Russia or to seize a small country, rake a bunch of corpses with periodic terrorist attacks, trillions of dollars in spending, a bunch of sanctions with a theoretical return in 20 years? "
      1. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 8 December 2020 21: 52
        0
        Quote: Boris Chernikov
        apparently you do not know how to count since you have it "several times cheaper"

        I can. Moreover, I think better than you, because I started counting long before it became mainstream. Because these racial orc raters started back in 2008-10. And then I was still thinking about moving. Therefore, I know what to count and how.
        Just for example. Do you offer prefabricated buildings? Suppose that everyone (whom you were able to catch, stuff into teplushki and take to new places of residence) agreed to live in them. Take the calculator in hand, find the price tag for them and calculate how much will be placed in them, well, at least, Lyamov 5-6 population (Donetsk and Luhansk regions) And they need not only be settled. They still need to be provided with lifting ones, so that they do not die of hunger at least in the first month, to find jobs so that they are not just parasites. Moreover, it is desirable to find a job according to the profile (because it would be cheaper to admit the same number of Tajiks, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, etc. to non-core work). And much more, without which the exported people will feel themselves not as migrants but as exiles. After all the calculations, the euro / American sanctions will seem like a trifle on ice cream.
        But even if you can reduce all financial and reputation losses to zero. What will remain in the place where the Russians were taken from? There will remain a territory with a hostile population, and after a while, NATO bases.
        Unlike you, Putin knows how to count, so the topic of the great migration of peoples is not raised in principle. And that is precisely why it was announced that the whole of Ukraine is needed. Not all at once, but at least in pieces.
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 9 December 2020 14: 08
          -3
          1) Let's start with the fact that it is unlikely that all 5-6 million will agree to move, most likely 5-6 million will leave in total from the entire former USSR .. 2) How much will it cost? a family of 4 people, a house costs 1 million + soputka, let's say 2 million rubles or 500 thousand for 1 person ... for 6 million it comes out 3 trillion rubles ... is this a lot? To understand, in the Crimea, subsidies are allocated under 150 billion rubles ... Then half of these 6 million will work ... we count 3 million with, say, a salary of 25 rubles per month ... how many taxes? That's 000 billion in taxes per year ... while those 117 trillion rubles will remain in the economy, and these 3 million citizens will work and pay taxes, and not take money out of the country every year ... not to mention the fact that since it will be in Russia, there will be no problems with "how to make officials work" ... And how much money we will need, say, half of Ukraine? right, at least 3-1 trillion rubles per YEAR ... not in 2 years, but every year with an incomprehensible result ...
          1. Egor-dis
            Egor-dis 10 December 2020 00: 14
            0
            A genius is a person who, skillfully avoiding minor mistakes, moves towards a global error. A joke of humor. wink And on the topic. You stubbornly refuse to introduce one fundamental component into your calculations - you consider Ukraine and the Russians inhabiting it as a separate state. It is enough to introduce it (not all, but only that part where the Russian, pro-Russian and Russian-speaking population lives, i.e. everything on the left bank of the Dnieper) into Russia, as well as Crimea, all the minus that you have drawn will become a plus ... Moreover, a much greater plus than the minus was. Because, along the way, the issue of water supply to the Crimea and overland communication with it will be resolved, the water area of ​​the Azov Sea will become the internal water area of ​​Russia, well, and there are many more nishtyaks. It was not for nothing that it was said aloud that ukraine became a subject of geopolitics.
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 10 December 2020 11: 10
              -4
              here is an important point .. Crimea .. it was introduced into the composition in 2014 and alas, still Svidomo has not been completely cleaned out .. And here, for a conditional 10-15 million population, there will be 1 million officials, police, doctors and military .. with brainwashed people who are used to sticking around and living "like in Ukraine" ... yes, in the future, the return in theory will be greater, but even for 15 years, if you look, then the return is higher if you lure people to yourself ..
              1. Egor-dis
                Egor-dis 10 December 2020 17: 25
                0
                Did someone clean them in Crimea? Well, they drove a little Mejlis, caught especially stubborn Natsiks. Everything. Nobody conducts specific work with the population. Nobody cleans the brains. From here, that climbs out. For some reason, in the age of capitalism and high technologies (including political technologies), many are still confident that patriotism and convictions arise by themselves. This is not true. Ukraine is a living example of this. There, "work with the population" does not stop for a second.
                And they love to "prick" everywhere. It is enough to watch Russian TV channels - there are a lot of examples. From Vladivostok to Murmansk. Also, probably Ukrainians are sitting everywhere? wink And it is better to be treated for this "pricking" together, on a single territory, and not in turn.
                1. Boris Chernikov
                  Boris Chernikov 10 December 2020 18: 35
                  -6
                  cleaned .. they are still cleaning from the authorities .. about "does not lead" .. how do you imagine a job for 15-20 million people? you only have to do this job will take more than a dozen billion rubles .. and yes .. in comparison with the Ukrainians, our angels are in the flesh .. in fact, the management in Russia is debugged, there is control, and the military will have to do everything anew .. it will take a lot of years, not to mention massive sanctions .. oh yes .. up to a heap. .the public debt of Ukraine is 51 billion dollars or 3,7 trillion rubles .. only this amount is more than the estimated costs of attracting Russian speakers to Russia ..
                  1. Egor-dis
                    Egor-dis 11 December 2020 20: 54
                    -1
                    Oh how everything is running!
                    At first I thought to give you a detailed answer for each thesis. And then I realized - it's useless. This is not from ignorance. It's just an irrational fear of Ukraine. Someone scared you to such an extent that you are ready to believe in any nonsense, just to prevent unification even in thoughts. Okay. We remain each with his own opinion.
                  2. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 11 December 2020 22: 01
                    -2
                    if for you "to look at things objectively" is tantamount to "fear of Ukraine", then call it fear .. sitting comfortably on the couch talking about "it is necessary to seize Ukraine and invest 15 trillion rubles in it." into the Russian economy with a return for the citizens of Russia, than to get first at least a couple of hundred coffins of our soldiers, a bunch of sanctions, hang on the debts of Ukraine, a non-working state for 15 million citizens and pump trillions of rubles every year to make the VNA work, think about starting production new processors and memory for domestic computers need 15 billion rubles ... it is better to give them to the Ukrainians ... think Roscosmos needs 800 billion rubles for the Lunar program, we will give this money to the Ukrainians ... oh yes, but what to do with our enterprises, which replace the Ukrainian products? Probably need to force them to make room .. but it is better to close altogether .. because everything is for the sake of "fraternal peoples" ..
                  3. Egor-dis
                    Egor-dis 11 December 2020 22: 53
                    -1
                    This is not objectivity. This is a hysteria from irrational fear. Do you have nightmares at night, about how evil "brotherly peoples" on the full moon climb to you through the window, eat food from your refrigerator and steal money from your stash? wink
                  4. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 12 December 2020 09: 59
                    -3
                    these are simple questions .. what is better to spend a lot of money on "capturing and educating people who will still spit in their backs" or on the proposal that those who want to move and invest in their economy .. I gave you the calculations of how much money will go on the repatriation project and indicated that 700 billion more would be spent only to pay off Ukraine's debts, which, after "liberation", would be automatically hanged on us .. + do not forget about the increase in sanctions .. if we go to Ukraine, then we can put an end to SP-2 volume with a guarantee, and this is another 400 billion rubles .. And yes .. what should we do with the enterprises? and what to do with the bypass railway lines, what have they built? and what to do with the bridge to Crimea? You answer after the fact, and do not move on concomitance
                  5. Egor-dis
                    Egor-dis 12 December 2020 17: 08
                    -1
                    It is possible and in fact.
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    what is better to spend a lot of money on - on "capturing and educating people who will still spit in the back" or on an offer for those who want to move and invest in their economy.
                    Definitely to join and educate. Because, for a very large number of reasons, the topic of relocation, in the required volume, will not take off in the near future. Key words volume and time.
                    But, even if it took off. The question "what will remain and what to do with it" is in the air. I'm waiting for an answer.
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    I gave you the calculations of how much money will go to the repatriation project
                    You gave the numbers and not the calculations, as I suspect, the average ceiling. I'm waiting for proofs for calculations, or at least for official analytics.
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    and indicated that 700 billion more would be spent only on paying off Ukraine's debts
                    Did I miss something. What part of Ukraine's official debt did Russia take upon itself by annexing Crimea?
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    do not forget about the increase in sanctions.
                    Only primary school students still believe that sanctions are imposed on the Russian Federation for real (including political) reasons. While all educated people have long understood that a (sanctions-) economic war is simply being waged against Russia in order to eliminate a competitor in the international arena.
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    then you can put an end to the SP-2 with the same guarantee
                    SP-2 will be completed. Even now, when the United States is thrusting European Union faberge into a meat grinder, it is looking (and finding) ways to continue construction. Nothing personal, just money.
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    And yes .. what should we do with the enterprises? And what to do with the bypass railway tracks, what have they built? And what to do with the bridge to the Crimea?

                    Questions about the level of children from the Navalny sect. What do you mean "what to do"? Enjoy. Or do you really think that these paths and this bridge are enough to meet 100% of the needs?

                    I look forward to specific answers to specific questions posed.
                  6. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 12 December 2020 19: 26
                    -3
                    those. in fact, this is "oh, I don't believe you" .. so why then try to portray a constructive dialogue? is it real?) and yes "definitely joining and re-education" .. and then you can see the analyst, or again "me from the couch know better "? I gave the cost of prefabricated housing, family expenses, taxes on families and the level of return .. about" I missed something "- you missed common sense, because immediately started about" we need to attach them ".. okay, we think -we attach half of Ukraine through the seizure..what does the other half do? rightly, hangs up debts through the international court, shouting about "these damned maskali are to blame" and it will burn out for them, because US support is provided to them .. about "schoolchildren and sanctions." .well, yes .. it is always easier to blame an opponent than to think with your head, here the main party is the EU, which is engaged in the same SP-2, but if it is that the introduction of troops, then this is not a weak trump card for the United States in the sanctions policy, in fact, it will be direct trump card to "the Russians captured Ukraine" .. Construction methods are sought because K the ring was returned with minimal but grounds .. but "the seizure of 15-20 million Ukrainians with territories" will not work ... And yes .. I did not hear any answers except "fi, yes, these are not questions" .. answer with sofa, what should we do with our enterprises, which have already replaced the products of Ukraine, what should we do with the railway bypassing Ukraine ... About "or do you really think" is not the answer ... this is wagging the tail so as not to start counting, exactly what enterprises are now filling their needs, or is it better for us to have 2 identical enterprises that will be on starvation rations? about "these ways" .. the catch is that either these railway tracks work and beat off investments, or we need to return to the piece of iron through Ukraine, which automatically means that either we need to maintain a losing line, or pay for two branches again, which again costs a pretty penny. Although some answers are from you .. you can't even answer simple questions, you merge from the topic .. because for you the main idea is "we need to return Ukraine, then how will we live" ... And the simplest thing is that they do not sit in the Kremlin stupid people, and if "the return of Ukraine is the salvation of Russia", the troops would have been brought in back in 2014, since there were more than enough of them on the border ... but there was no smell of profit there even then and it doesn't smell all the more so now .. The products that came from Ukraine have been successfully replaced by our manufacturers, and no one will get into the swamp called "Ukraine" - the costs will immediately amount to trillions of rubles every year, and the return is real only after dozens of years, and that is in theory ... So extra money it is better to spend on projects within Russia and debug the repatriation project - when people see that life in Russia is many times better than in Ukraine and they can move without any problems, then after filtering, "welkam" ..
                  7. Egor-dis
                    Egor-dis 12 December 2020 20: 33
                    -1
                    Nasty so you got bombed. I tried to read this graphomaniac nonsense. Niasilil, vision is weak. Spelling, punctuation, paragraphs, text design - no, I have not heard. The presence of mnogabukf - does not mean "a detailed answer". Moreover, I regard this verbiage as an attempt to avoid a concrete answer. Therefore, I repeat the questions:

                    1. What will happen to the territory that was not annexed, but from which the Russian population was "lured"?

                    2. I am waiting for calculations (and not bare numbers) proving that full-fledged repatriation (so that the repatriated "see that in Russia is many times better than in Ukraine") will come out cheaper than the annexation of territories. An attempt to demand to prove otherwise will be regarded as a drain on this issue. This is your thesis, and therefore prove to you.

                    3. Do you consider the number of enterprises, roads, bridges, which you are so worried about, sufficient for the normal functioning of the Crimean peninsula and Russia as a whole? Do they completely cover needs?

                    4. And one more question in pursuit. How is it that you, like a Russian from Russia, offer Russians from Ukraine the same thing that Ukrainian nationalists want from them, i.e. "suitcase-station-Russia"?

                    If you have nothing to answer, don't answer. If you answer, make it readable. The points. Paragraphs. Less emotions, more specifics.
                  8. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 12 December 2020 22: 02
                    -3
                    and I just gave a few examples, those that lie immediately on the surface ... but even this was difficult to master for a sofa expert, but an expert ...
                    1) is there not enough land for you?
                    2) Will I wait for the calculations, how much will the maintenance of Ukraine cost? Or will they pretend to me that “Ukraine will support itself?” I then gave the cost of housing, 3 trillion rubles at the rate of 500 per person. Let's assume that they will go under the program “refugees” , which means we assign them fin. assistance in the amount of 000 rubles per person is another 15 billion rubles. We add there the costs of paperwork and soputku, so as not to get worn out, round everything up to 000 trillion rubles - from the important - this money should not be allocated at once, but allocated to the aid fund, and it is unlikely that everyone will rush to Russia on the move that repatriation will be gradual. The rest of the actions are already providing work, taking into account that we have from 540 to 4,5 million only official guest workers to provide them with work will not be as big of a problem as it seems, and if we remember that foreign workers take out on average 7 -10 billion dollars or up to 8 billion rubles, then repatriation looks even more attractive. There remains a technical question of finding the jobs themselves, but this question is completely solved for ourselves.
                    3) About "do you count the number of enterprises" .. how would other people consider them, for example, from odk-saturn, who launched the production of engines for ships instead of Ukrainian ones .. invested "only" 10 billion rubles for the development and launch of a series of engines already ... Or will we put Ukrainian ships on half of the ships and ours on half? The Ministry of Defense will say "thank you" to you, but they will send you on a long journey on foot with such "innovation" .. And will we do the same with helicopter engines? and about the bridge ... it turns out, it was necessary to invest more than 220 billion rubles ... to then invest more than a dozen, but rather a hundred billion rubles already in the restoration of the Ukrainian infrastructure ..
                    4) and I have to offer "Russians from Ukraine" as an option .. war? They allowed Ge that came to power, so if they are not satisfied with what they received, then if they are not noticed in anti-Russian activities, they can come to live in Russia, are you suggesting what? We need to "save" them and capture Ukraine in order to hang ourselves on the neck of an indistinct asset with huge expenses and zero return ..

                    And now I'm waiting for your great plan for "we need to do how with the Crimea and everything will be chiki-chiki" .. come on, only with numbers and with justification. not your verbiage about how wrong I am
                  9. Egor-dis
                    Egor-dis 13 December 2020 17: 31
                    -1
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    1) is there not enough land for you?
                    Is that all you could think of? Those. you have no answer.

                    2) The level of calculations - middle school student. The older ones already give the concepts of economics and sociology. You have zero with that, absolute. And this is yours: "There remains the technical question of finding the jobs themselves," - generally enchanting. You don’t even understand that planning of the repatriation program should begin with this question. Try to show your calculations to any city administration. Let them laugh too. Although, no, don't show it. There is a chance that their psyche will not stand it and they will simply kill you.

                    3) God of couch analytics! You didn't even understand the question. Why are you writing to me who is producing what? The question was "Do these enterprises cover the needs of the state in full"? Can you tell the difference between availability and need?

                    4) In fact, you are proposing a war on Russian territory. Especially as described by you. First civil, then external. But you don't even realize it.

                    Stop scribbling comments on VO and sit down for lessons.
                  10. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 22: 59
                    -3
                    those. as I thought .. apart from silly phrases about "we definitely need to seize Ukraine" you have nothing, and an attempt to drive in the style of "yes I don't like your calculations" looks very funny considering that after that you did not write anything .. sofa expert, there is nothing more to say, even your statements are not drawn to the "expert") you do not even try to portray the answers to the questions posed, including the regime of the pocket Jew and trying to translate the arrows with questions .. By the way, since you blurted out about "you propose war", so be a man, at least answer for these words .. or again shamefully merge? laughing
  • Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 12 December 2020 21: 47
    -1
    Quote: Egor-dis
    This will take off with young people who have neither a stake nor a yard, who are easy-going, and who, in principle, don't care about where to earn and build their lives.

    I read that for resettlement from abroad to the Murmansk region, they give a lump sum of just over 600 rubles.
    And in that topic, they showed the ration of an unemployed person registered in the United States .. for 2 weeks .. not comparable.
  • iouris
    iouris 7 December 2020 13: 46
    0
    Quote: Pessimist22
    Why then did our ancestors watered this land with blood in order to give it away?

    To put it in the bank.
  • zloybond
    zloybond 7 December 2020 20: 41
    +1
    fellow Come on, come on fool ... Ukraine must exist wassat , BUT, within the framework of the Kiev district, drive the entire Svidomo elite into a heap, and then let them do it yourself ... stop
    1. Egor-dis
      Egor-dis 11 December 2020 20: 56
      0
      Quote: zloybond
      Ukraine is obliged to exist wassat, BUT, within the framework of the Kiev district, to drive into a heap all the Svidomo elite

      the place of the Svidomo elite is in the Bandershtats.
  • vasilkovichi
    vasilkovichi 9 December 2020 19: 21
    +1
    Until they themselves return, on our conditions. Don't figs they do in RF. This is the price of betrayal.
  • Dmitry Simakin
    Dmitry Simakin 11 December 2020 20: 32
    0
    But really, why?
  • Nikolay Ivanov_5
    Nikolay Ivanov_5 7 December 2020 12: 09
    +3
    Maidan activists should be banned from leaving Ukraine for 10 years. Let them live in the country they created.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 7 December 2020 12: 18
      +7
      Activists and Natsiks, as terrorists, are methodically caught and imprisoned for the state revolution.
    2. Terenin
      Terenin 7 December 2020 12: 29
      +6
      Quote: Nikolay Ivanov_5
      Let them live in the country they created

      For me, "created" must be replaced with "destroyed".
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 7 December 2020 12: 10
    +24
    As always ... When there is nothing to write about, we write how bad everything is in Ukroin (Europe, America - choose what you need).
    Even me, who has relatives and acquaintances there, is already tired of reading articles of the same type with the difference only in percentage terms, how bad everything is there.
    I want it HERE in Russia to be good.
    1. Dym71
      Dym71 7 December 2020 12: 55
      +5
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      I want it HERE in Russia to be good.

      And Yegor Makhov wants him to feel good IN DONBASS, why can you, but he can't?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 7 December 2020 13: 49
        +6
        Makhov's writings have nothing to do with caring for the residents of Donbass. They don't care for him. All his "publications" serve Russia's urgent desire to float Donbass to Ukraine in the form of a Trojan horse. Hence all the stories about the "wrong" and "not enough Russian Russians", and "Russians spoiled by Ukraine", and other bullshit, that Donbass could have been taken to Russia, but Ukraine has spoiled it so much that now it is only gray the zone is good. Until it gets better.
        Russian propaganda has driven itself into a corner. First, the hamsters were taught that Donbass is a struggle between the light elves and the evil Mordor, and now the hamsters need to explain why the elves are not worthy of a pass to the elven forest, but must return to Mordor. And the goblin Makhov is trying to "explain" it.
        1. Dym71
          Dym71 7 December 2020 15: 52
          +2
          Quote: Undecim
          Hence all the stories about "wrong" and "not enough Russian Russians" and "Russians spoiled by Ukraine"

          Are you setting out on the topic of this article?
          This is what I see:
          In Donbass, a referendum was held on its own and was greeted with no less enthusiasm, even if the clause on reunification with the Russian Federation was cleared from there. Here the best of the best perish for the seventh year, the population is a thousand times more worthy of Russian passports, though "got up wrong."

          The above quote about "wrong" and "not enough Russians"? belay
          Quote: Undecim
          Russian propaganda has driven itself into a corner.

          Yes figs with her, if so, I do not follow.
          Quote: Undecim
          and now the hamsters must be explained why the elves are not worthy of a pass to the elven forest, but must return to Mordor.

          Light elves - West, Mordor you and I are called ukroagitprop. hi
        2. Niel-le-Calais
          Niel-le-Calais 7 December 2020 16: 24
          +5
          Quote: Undecim
          First, the hamsters were taught that Donbass is a struggle between light elves and evil Mordor, and now the hamsters need to explain why elves are not worthy of a pass to the elven forest, but must return to Mordor

          Well, with such success, you can bomb Voronezh.
          After all, the words that "the wrong people got it" are also heard in the Russian Federation about their own people.
          Poor Voronezh ... request
          What a new excuse for explaining failure. In Crimea, "Ukrainian heritage" is to blame. Passports, attitude, officials ... Ukraine ruined everything. This is in the autonomy, where they have always emphasized their ethnicity ..
          In ORDLO, in general, the wrong people went.
          It can reveal a terrible secret that people are the same everywhere. But the conditions are different. And in order to survive, people strain exactly what is needed at the moment to survive in these conditions.
          Need to steal, not create? So they will steal. Need to disobey the law to survive? Yes please. You have to disobey the law to do business - you have to. Otherwise ruin.
          Hardworking Germans and Japanese also did not have Ordung right away. And quality (the Made in Germani quality mark is a mark of a second-rate product in the United States after English, similar to Japanese)
          Order
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 7 December 2020 14: 36
        0
        I do not follow the Donbass mass media, but further from the thought that people there, also regularly, are shown the problems of Russia.
        So why should I read how bad they are?
        1. Dym71
          Dym71 7 December 2020 15: 55
          0
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          So why should I read how bad they are?

          So pass by the article, you are not being pulled here by force. yes
  • Ravik
    Ravik 7 December 2020 12: 11
    -1
    Again Bandera from the caches to smoke?
    Is it worth it, with the current propaganda of the Ukrainian authorities?
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 7 December 2020 12: 11
    +11
    Great article. I hope we will all finally understand that we do not need Ukraine. Do not remake the three young generations who grew up during the period of nEzalEzhnost. Do not eradicate habits and thinking. If earlier, Bandera ideas were widespread on the territory of western Ukraine, now they are everywhere. With rare exceptions, of course. And the most important thing in the article was, “Are we ready to take a poor and plundered country?” I would add, “Are we ready to support a poor country at the expense of our taxpayers?” We have become strangers, both spiritually and economically. it is necessary to think well and understand.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 7 December 2020 12: 25
      +7
      We are enemies by definition. For the phantom simulacrum of Ukrainians will not survive in a collision with the Russian world. Well, who needs MOV, Bandera and Oseledets in normal reality? All Movnyuki will inevitably switch to either Russian or Polish, education in Ukrainian does not make sense from the word at all. Like literature, music, and any culture in general ..

      Because - they rat at us, they have no other choice. Russia is the inevitable death of Ukrainians .. However, just like Poland .. Because Ukrainians are not even necessary for themselves, let alone those around them ..
      1. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 7 December 2020 12: 33
        0
        I agree. I will supplement your conclusions, if I may.
        They ate themselves, themselves. No outside help.
      2. silver_roman
        silver_roman 7 December 2020 13: 03
        +5
        In fact, the Ukrainian language is a mixture of Russian and Polish. Still, you forget about the merits of the Ukrainians. Firstly, your main mistake is that you separate them from the Russian world. They separated for political reasons and on the basis of the stupidity of the same Khrushchev and his policies. We must admit the fact that we are losing a piece of the Russian world because of the weakness of this very Russian world. A piece of "meat, flesh" is simply ripped out of us. Note that the Saxons are already ruling Ukraine, and the entire elite are Polish immigrants who live in the same Lviv. And the Riots in Belarus were largely supported by the same Poland. Maybe it would be worth working in the direction of Poland, and not raising a howl over Ukraine? Maybe the Poles should be put in their place?
        1. Alexey Sommer
          Alexey Sommer 7 December 2020 14: 01
          +4
          Quote: silver_roman
          Maybe it would be worth working in the direction of Poland, and not raising a howl over Ukraine? Maybe the Poles should be put in their place?

          A hundred times yes!
          You cannot win by defending yourself.
          It is necessary to create such problems for the Poles that they themselves would be busy and there was no time to even think about Ukraine.
        2. TAMBU
          TAMBU 7 December 2020 15: 26
          +1
          In fact, the Ukrainian language is a mixture of Russian and Polish

          no...
          for clarifications to philologists ...
          1. Victorio
            Victorio 7 December 2020 18: 33
            +1
            Quote: TAMBU
            In fact, the Ukrainian language is a mixture of Russian and Polish

            no...
            for clarifications to philologists ...

            ===
            ? rather yes ...
            for clarifications to philologists
  • sniperino
    sniperino 7 December 2020 12: 13
    -7
    The question can be reformulated: does Moscow need a fascist Ukraine? Once organized groups of Nazis are legalized by state power, they become fascists.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 7 December 2020 13: 12
      +2
      Yes, in Crimea 6 years later, and even then not everyone has been caught ..
  • Trapp1st
    Trapp1st 7 December 2020 12: 15
    +6
    Polemics: Does Moscow Need All Ukraine?
    After the B 52 flights with simulated strikes on Russia, the Ukraine issue must be closed in any way and urgently.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 7 December 2020 13: 06
      +3
      But not just any. It won't work in any way. The article correctly raises the question: how to divide Ukraine? It is pointless to take it entirely, because again in the rear we will get traitors who have not yet been finished off in the Carpathians in the 50s, those who were Gauleiters in the special. battalions of fascists. This is the biggest evil spirits, devils from hell. They just need to be exterminated to the last. Because the enemy is the enemy. The Germans came with a clear purpose as an enemy. But these were the same traitors who lived among us, drank, ate, excuse me, shit, and then killed children, old people and women, bowing to the enemy.
      I left the thought ...
      In general, it is necessary to understand which part needs to be taken, and having understood this, already now form the correct views of the population. In short, the question is not quick and difficult enough, but the time will come. How the same Azerbaijanis waited hard, preparing, and as the time came, they used it very successfully.
  • prior
    prior 7 December 2020 12: 15
    +5
    The principle - "Divide and conquer" has not been canceled.
    We do not need someone else, but we must return ours.
    Why does Russia need pro-Polish "hemorrhoids" ?! Let Poland toil with him.
    And for those who are dissatisfied on the pro-Russian side there will be where to run .... Cattle for Poland were-cattle and will remain.
    Does Russia need Ukraine?
    A country that does not want to grow in territories and population is doomed.
    1. sniperino
      sniperino 7 December 2020 15: 16
      0
      Quote: prior
      Let Poland toil with him
      The Banderaites will be re-educated there faster than in the Kolyma camps.
  • saigon
    saigon 7 December 2020 12: 16
    +2
    If you take Ukraine, then only the whole, leaving no stubs.
    Any remnant of Ukraine will be hostile to Russia, and it will take a brutal eradication of all the crap that was there, knock out Russophobia from the brain without sentimentality.
    And here at once the question is whether modern Russia is capable of any consistent actions, not rigidity in execution, or again there will be throwing, dreaming. ease of thought and how effective managers will do it without a headache.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 7 December 2020 13: 13
      +1
      yeah, that's what my grandfather told me that when he was young he went to Western Ukraine and there they officially drank to Bandera at feasts ...
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 7 December 2020 12: 20
    0
    Personally, I don't need ... repeat Well, I don't know about Moscow. request
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 7 December 2020 12: 20
    +1
    ..does Moscow need all of Ukraine?

    Moscow - no.
    And Russia needs it, because this part of Russia, which was treacherously torn off ...
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 7 December 2020 14: 01
      +1
      Quote: Doccor18
      for this part of Russia, which was treacherously torn off ...

      who tore it off?
      1. Overlock
        Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 44
        +29
        Quote: Silvestr
        who tore it off?

        Population of Ukraine after the independence referendum. Russia recognized the results of the referendum, as it itself sought to break out of the USSR
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 7 December 2020 16: 52
        +2
        Shushkevich, Yeltsin, Kravchuk ...
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 7 December 2020 12: 21
    +9
    "In the old fortress, Abdullah had to be taken through the pipe!"
    In 14, Yanukovych had to be put on a tank and sent to Kiev, as president and commander-in-chief. Well, a little help. And now it's too late to drink Borjomi - Ukraine is a cut-off slice.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 7 December 2020 12: 29
      -1
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      And now it's too late to drink Borjomi - Ukraine is a cut-off slice.

      And the cut off slice must be eaten! No residue! However, the crumbs can be thrown off by Western partners. Let them pick them up! And immediately all objections from the EU will be lifted.
      1. HAM
        HAM 7 December 2020 13: 46
        +2
        Elena, personally it seems to me that after a while the "Western partners" will try to shove "worries" about the "cut off slice" on Russia .... that's just the further the more unnecessary this "slice" ... choke now, easily ...
      2. sniperino
        sniperino 7 December 2020 13: 57
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        However, the crumbs can be thrown off by Western partners.
        Now it is the Poles and the Hungarians who are under pressure, they do not want to accept "European values".
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 7 December 2020 12: 47
      0
      never say never .... and in one direction and the other ... everything costs money and blood.
    3. Dimide
      Dimide 7 December 2020 13: 20
      +6
      I agree. The right thought comes after.
      Now, after the granting of visa-free travel, having traveled around Europe and compared with the Russian Federation, in Ukraine there are absolutely different moods
  • Linxs
    Linxs 7 December 2020 12: 26
    +6
    Quote: sniperino
    The question can be reformulated: does Moscow need a fascist Ukraine?

    Horses, people mixed ...

    Fascism is based on the totalitarian power of the state and the complete subordination of the individual to it. Fascism is characterized by the cult of the personality of the ruler, the one-party system of government and the superiority of the titular nation over other peoples.


    Where did you find the ruler's personality cult in Ukraine?
    1. sniperino
      sniperino 7 December 2020 14: 15
      +2
      Quote: LinxS
      Where did you find the ruler's personality cult in Ukraine?
      Neither in Italy nor in Japan did fascism eliminate the monarchy, which devalues ​​your arguments. I suppose they are aiming to label Stalin and the USSR as a fascist.
    2. TAMBU
      TAMBU 7 December 2020 15: 29
      +2
      Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, most imperialist elements of financial capital ...

      Is there a terrorist dictatorship? there is
      the most reactionary - yes
      the most chauvinistic - yes
      elements of financial capital - yes
      open - yes
      imperialist - not yet ...
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 7 December 2020 15: 51
        +1
        Quote: TAMBU
        imperialist - not yet
        Already yes, if you look at the protectorate. The United States is still happy with this. And they had nothing to do with the condemnation of Nazism.
        1. TAMBU
          TAMBU 7 December 2020 17: 16
          +2
          well, with the canoe, they probably activate ...
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 7 December 2020 17: 29
            +2
            Quote: TAMBU
            well, with the canoe, they probably activate ...
            while they are getting richer with a dumkoy about baida, and the one who rubbed this baida with them is already rich
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 7 December 2020 12: 26
    +10
    Are the Russian people ready to take on the balance sheet a poverty-stricken state without infrastructure, agriculture and industry, with land depleted by technical cultures and a population that is old and corrupted? Will it overstrain?
    ... There is no need to confuse the Russian people here, they themselves have nothing on their balance sheet. And the Russian oligarchs will not care if there is no benefit. Everything should pay off and generate income.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 7 December 2020 13: 14
      0
      In fact, Ukraine will not give profit for the next 20 years, but it will devour a lot of resources.
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 7 December 2020 13: 43
        +4
        Do our capitalists need it? I think no..
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 7 December 2020 18: 42
          0
          our capitalists, if not strangely, listen to the Kremlin, and the Kremlin has learned to count money ... a simple question ... suppose we invade Ukraine tomorrow and seize / liberate all of central and eastern Ukraine, what benefits will we get? Really, I have nothing but the passage to the PMR I don't see from the word at all
  • ccsr
    ccsr 7 December 2020 12: 28
    +3
    Polemics: Does Moscow Need All Ukraine?

    We do not need it in parts, because the cancer of Ukrainian nationalism has struck not only young people, but also the older generation, and we will never remove it. That is why it is high time to come to terms with the fact that this is a "cut off piece", and only with regard to Donbass to negotiate about granting them independence at the current stage of events, postponing for later the question of these territories joining Russia. And then it is still unknown how the story with Donbass will end when they recognize their independence - they can throw Russia, feeling how good it is to live on European or Chinese grants, and at the same time be not obliged to us for our help. We have already seen this with our former "brothers" more than once - even Lukashenka tried to blow his own tune until he realized that he was waiting for the fate of Gaddafi.
  • Efgen
    Efgen 7 December 2020 12: 39
    +3
    There is such a book. "School", A. Gaidar.
    There is an episode in it when a Bolshevik at a rally explains why Russia does not need to fight the Germans.
    "- Peace after victory? - Baskakov said. - Well, it's a good thing. We'll conquer Constantinople. Well, just like we need this Constantinople to the bone! And we'll also conquer Berlin. I ask you," Baskakov pointed his finger at the pockmarked peasant with with a bridle, who made his way to the podium, - I ask: what do you have a German or a Turk on loan, or what, they took it and did not give it back? Well, tell me, dear man, what business can you have in Constantinople? What are you, potatoes there? will you carry to the market to sell? Why are you silent?
    The pockmarked peasant blushed, blinked, and, spreading his arms, answered in a high, indignant voice:
    - Yes, I do not need him at all ... But why did he give up to me? "

    So the position of the author is not even new.
    1. t-12
      t-12 11 December 2020 21: 24
      0
      what business might you have in Constantinople? What, are you going to take potatoes to the market there? Why are you silent?
      The peasant is silent. But the peasant does not know that almost all foreign trade in Russia at that time went through the Black Sea straits.
  • sniperino
    sniperino 7 December 2020 12: 40
    +8
    The point is in the rudiments of the Ukrainian mentality, which does not imply such concepts as "law", "responsibility", "honesty" or "the good of society." A mentality that turns any good deeds, undertakings or resources into personal benefit, and blows the rest
    Was everything good in the Russian Federation in the 90s with legality and honest labor for the good of society? Maybe today everything is great in this regard? Or is it "the rudiments of the Soviet / Russian mentality, which does not imply such concepts"? They write what they want.
  • Kronos
    Kronos 7 December 2020 12: 43
    +8
    Again, the author does not have such almost subhuman Ukrainians, as opposed to such legitimate Russians.
  • Avior
    Avior 7 December 2020 12: 44
    +11
    I will write, although, of course, someone will not like it, the minusers will trample, but sometimes you need to make an effort on yourself and soberly assess the situation.
    In fact, a turning point in consciousness in Ukraine occurred somewhere in 2017-18.
    In 2014-15, there were quite a few supporting the republics, against the background of the fall in the hryvnia exchange rate and the rise in prices in Ukraine, the ideas of the people's republics enjoyed noticeable support.
    But then it became apparent that the economy and people in the republics were in a much deeper operative than in Ukraine, although they were in the same place or not far from it.
    In Ukraine, a more or less stable exchange rate of the hryvnia to the dollar was established, salaries began to grow steadily and noticeably. In Russia, however, growth has gradually slowed down, there is nothing to say about the republics at all, no one believes in their future, it is deaf there. It got to the point that the minimum wage in Ukraine and in Russia was equal, in my opinion, this has never happened. Prices rose, of course, but salaries were clearly ahead. Russia began to lose its attractiveness as a country with a relatively high standard of living, which Ukraine had had since the 90s.
    Economic demands have gradually disappeared from the protests in Ukraine, this issue has faded into the background.
    Compared to Germany, some in Ukraine, of course, is poor, but everything, as you know, is known in comparison with what it was, especially since a certain increase in incomes was preserved under Zelensky, which, I am sure, his merit is not even close ...
    Then there was a second incentive - getting a visa-free visa.
    Its receipt, although formally it did not give the right to work in Europe, led to the fact that it became much easier for many to find quite civilized work in Europe, many began to go to earn money in Europe, and Russia as a profitable employer, as it was for a long time , began to leave the agenda, now it is not a big problem for a Ukrainian to find a legal job in his specialty in Europe, the time of the 90s, a wild illegal at work is leaving before our eyes, new ones simply do not go to such conditions. The departure of workers from Ukraine forces to raise salaries and local employers - less labor force - you have to pay more, the law of the market.
    Otyez brought the real incomes of many into the shadows - since the family remained in Ukraine, and they earn money in Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary or Italy - for a part of Ukraine it is nearby.
    A situation has developed when the country has less money, while the population has relatively more.
    Why am I writing all this?
    Judging by what you can read, many remained in the performances for 2014-15, and the situation has changed markedly, both in the republics and in Ukraine.
    And this must be taken into account, and not closed eyes
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 12: 50
      -1
      find a legal job in your specialty in Europe
      Are Ukrainian diplomas recognized in Europe?
      1. Avior
        Avior 7 December 2020 13: 10
        +5
        Differently.
        For example, in Poland.
        As a rule, you need to go through the nostrification procedure, it is not very difficult.
        This does not apply to some specialties - doctors, for example, differently there.
        In practice, young people applying for work with higher education in Europe often do this - they finish four courses of a university in Ukraine, and then finish their studies for a year or two in Europe, and receive a full-fledged European diploma.
        Ukraine is a member of the Hague Convention on the Simplified Procedure for the Legalization of Documents, as well as the Lisbon Convention on the Recognition of Higher Education Qualifications in the European Region, but there are all sorts of nuances depending on the specialty, country and others.
        As far as I know, there are usually no problems with working diplomas.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 13: 15
          +2
          As far as I know, there are usually no problems with working diplomas.
          In England and Ireland, even a plumbing diploma (not to mention doctors and engineers) is not suitable. I doubt it is different in other countries.
          1. Avior
            Avior 7 December 2020 13: 21
            +4
            I have a friend in Ireland, she is a doctor, she studied at one time in Ukraine.
            He says that the requirements for qualifying exams are very strict.
            I admit that this is the problem of England or Ireland.
            They practically don't go there from Ukraine, from Ukraine it is inconvenient.
            And a visa is needed. There are simpler options.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 13: 25
              -1
              I admit that this is the problem of England or Ireland.
              I doubt that in the Czech Republic or Sweden they do it differently (in France, exactly the same as in England).
              1. Avior
                Avior 7 December 2020 13: 58
                +1
                Common options from Ukraine are Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Italy, Czech Republic, Germany.
                Many in "walking" accessibility - got on the car, in the evening in Ukraine.
                Of course, they are primarily working workers.
                Any builders, finishers, mechanics - I know many cases, no problems.
                With a university it is a little more difficult, but also not very difficult.
                For example, here's how it happens in the Czech Republic
                https://news.eurabota.ua/ru/czech/education/nostrifikaciya-diploma-v-chehii/
                In the overwhelming majority of cases, it is not necessary to take an exam, especially in technical specialties, although there are exceptions, such as doctors and lawyers.
                but often young people finish their studies in Europe for a year and receive a diploma from a local university.
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 14: 08
                  0
                  Such optimistic stories will do for the inhabitants of the Taishet region - I have been living in this very Europe since the age of 18. But each one will remain with his own opinion yes
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 7 December 2020 14: 23
                    +4
                    maybe since your 18 years there have been problems, now it has become much easier, this is a million examples.
                    Once it was, maybe in France or Ireland and still exists, but in the Czech Republic, Poland, there are no problems for a long time and close for Ukrainians.
                    There are, of course, nuances, but if you have a goal to confirm your diploma, then this is not a problem for a long time. No exams are needed for a long time
                    https://www.gostudy.cz/blog/nostrifikatsiya-diploma-v-chehii
                    https://www.educationcenter.cz/blog/nostrifikace/
                    It is even easier if with training. In Ukraine, there is an active advertisement of Polish, Czech and Slovak universities. And this is not an elite expensive education - the expectation that a student can provide it with a part-time job. Then no problem at all.
            2. New Year day
              New Year day 7 December 2020 13: 57
              +4
              Quote: Avior
              There are simpler options.

              Poland! Many doctors have left for Poland and are working in their specialty
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 14: 02
                -2
                Poland!
                And what about Romania and Bulgaria wassat ?
            3. sniperino
              sniperino 7 December 2020 14: 42
              -2
              Quote: Avior
              Of Ukraine practically does not go there, с This is inconvenient for Ukraine.
              "From - to", "from - to". You will decide ...
              1. Avior
                Avior 7 December 2020 14: 50
                +1
                do you think it is so important in this case? I don't see a problem
                Do you know how the Foreign Ministry gets around this problem in a similar case, with the names of countries consisting of one word, like Ukraine?
                in turn uses the Embassy in Jamaica, then IN Jamaica.
                http://www.rejamaica.ru/
                Why am I worse? smile
                1. Niel-le-Calais
                  Niel-le-Calais 9 December 2020 00: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: Avior
                  Do you know how the Foreign Ministry gets around this problem in a similar case, with the names of countries consisting of one word, like Ukraine?
                  in turn uses the Embassy in Jamaica, then IN Jamaica.

                  in cases with Ukraine, I gave an example
                  They wrote "to Ukraine"
                  DECREE
                  OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
                  On the appointment of V.S. Chernomyrdin
                  Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation
                  in Ukraine
                  To appoint Viktor Chernomyrdin as Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation to Ukraine.

                  but an example, to Ukraine
                  Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated December 05.08.2009, 937 No. XNUMX
                  On the appointment of M.Yu. Zurabov Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation to Ukraine

                  In general, they send as they want ...
                  So why bother us all ... everyone has a choice. Or are we worse than the Russian Foreign Ministry and the president?
          2. Normal ok
            Normal ok 7 December 2020 16: 26
            -4
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            As far as I know, there are usually no problems with working diplomas.
            In England and Ireland, even a plumbing diploma (not to mention doctors and engineers) is not suitable. I doubt it is different in other countries.

            In different countries it is different. For example Germany. Previously, there were very high requirements for qualification confirmation. Not anymore. Just go to Deutsche Welle. There is a lot of writing about the study / work of foreigners in Germany. So, over the past 2 years, even Germany has been softening legislation in order to attract qualified personnel. From the latest decisions: if there is an invitation from the employer, then you can come and work. The employer will confirm the qualifications later.
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 7 December 2020 17: 48
              -2
              Quote: Normal ok
              over the past 2 years, even Germany has been softening legislation in order to attract qualified personnel.
              There is either tolerance or fertility. Germany "chose" the first: no way without migrants.
              1. Avior
                Avior 7 December 2020 20: 20
                +2
                It seems that after the massive arrival of Syrians and other people from the East and Africa, the Germans came to the conclusion that Belarusians and Ukrainians are better, and began noticeable indulgences at work
                1. Niel-le-Calais
                  Niel-le-Calais 9 December 2020 00: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: Avior
                  the Germans came to the conclusion that Belarusians and Ukrainians are better, and began to noticeable indulgences at work

                  there is a shortage of white skilled labor in the world. And this is the most endangered species - the white man.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 7 December 2020 13: 56
        +3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        Are Ukrainian diplomas recognized in Europe?

        recognized after certification.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 14: 01
          -1
          after certification.
          In England, France, Ireland, I know for sure - "certification" is practically a retraining, and on the move aggressor of the respective country. Not just at least.
          1. Avior
            Avior 7 December 2020 14: 10
            +2
            on doctors and some humanities specifically, but still the most common are techies.
            In Poland, the Czech Republic, for example, confirmation of a diploma that a technical specialty of a university, that of a secondary institution is in the overwhelming majority of cases an inexpensive formal procedure, no retraining or additional exams are required.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 14: 12
              -1
              Britain, Ireland, France, not at all. I know for sure. I don't know, I didn't live with the Poles.
          2. Overlock
            Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 49
            +31
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            In England, France, Ireland I know for sure - "certification" is practically a retraining

            The largest center in Prague. You come, study a language, take an exam in a language, a specialty and go to the open spaces of the EU. You don't have to work in the Czech Republic. After naturalization, in any country in Europe.
            How to get Czech citizenship in 2020?
            https://www.provizu.ru/chehija/grazhdanstvo-chehii/
            Top 5 countries for moving doctors and confirming a diploma
            https://gradstudyabroad.ru/educational-resources/top-5-countries-for-doctors-abroad
            1. Avior
              Avior 7 December 2020 17: 22
              +1
              Exam is a must for doctors
              Techie have options without exam
      3. Egoza
        Egoza 7 December 2020 15: 03
        +5
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        Are Ukrainian diplomas recognized in Europe?

        A number of Ukrainian universities have concluded agreements with European institutions and, accordingly, the Ukrainian university issues two diplomas - Ukrainian and European. And an internship (6 months or 1 year), students can take place in a foreign university, but they are given a scholarship and a half-day job (Germany). Of course, they were eager to go there.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 7 December 2020 15: 52
          0
          Quote: Egoza
          A number of Ukrainian universities have concluded agreements with European institutions and, accordingly, the Ukrainian university issues two diplomas - Ukrainian and European.

          what universities are these?
          what are the quotas for students?
          1. Avior
            Avior 7 December 2020 17: 19
            +2
            https://www.kpi.kharkov.ua/rus/2020/03/16/hpi-ovgu/
            https://kpi.ua/ru/faculty/sfm
            It looks like that.
    2. Kronos
      Kronos 7 December 2020 12: 54
      0
      This is true, just do not forget what, for example, they are doing with medicine when they are engaged in cutting, gas prices are only growing, people who have gone bankrupt in a pandemic, debts that go to pay off a noticeable part of the budget, while constantly taking new loans.
    3. sevryuk
      sevryuk 7 December 2020 13: 33
      -3
      When will the "European standards" work? Well, is there a pension of 2000 euros, a salary of 5000? Otherwise, what was the muydan jumping for? Or will they be limited to the cost of a communal apartment (15 times growth)?
    4. TAMBU
      TAMBU 7 December 2020 15: 32
      -1
      Economic demands have gradually disappeared from the protests in Ukraine, this issue has faded into the background.

      I do not agree - Fopovites held a meeting a week ago ... doctors in the summer ... etc. etc....
      1. Avior
        Avior 7 December 2020 15: 41
        +2
        The Fopovites did not have economic demands, they demanded that the cash register be canceled
    5. Overlock
      Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 46
      +33
      Quote: Avior
      I will write, although, of course, someone will not like it,

      Speak all right. Nobody likes the truth, it is prickly and differs from the one served by Skabeeva and Co.
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 7 December 2020 12: 51
    +3
    Well, yes .. we are still not enough of that land. what is..))
  • svp67
    svp67 7 December 2020 12: 55
    +2
    Moscow. Why Moscow? It is Russia that needs Ukraine, but for this it would be necessary that Ukraine also needs Russia. And we did not solve this issue for three decades, since we had to solve it.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 7 December 2020 12: 59
    +14
    We scared away the potentially loyal Ukrainian part of the population with the frank schizo of our propaganda, the frank incompleteness of our actions in the SE. A stake on some kind of murky, uncharismatic and motley forces in the Ukrainian politicians of today. Finally - with these regular, juicy and colorful funerals of the Ukrainian economy, these endless mockery of the activities of the Ukrainian state and the Armed Forces - we also scared away some part of the forces on which we could rely.
    You see, since Soviet times, we (and in Ukraine) have a very specific form of patriotism - it is popular patriotism, divorced from reality and the practical plane - for a number of people it is enough to meditate on some epic leafy canvas to be in ecstasy, regardless of the objective state and dynamics surrounding reality. If such a person lives in Ukraine, walks the Ukrainian streets, reads Ukrainian newspapers, goes to the Ukrainian elections and receives a salary in Ukrainian hryvnias, he probably will not really like that somewhere there is a state that has been arranging trash-tent around for many years his country, mixed with some mossy "healthy" speeches about the former brotherhood and abundance of 30-40 years ago. Our information policy in the coverage of Ukrainian "affairs" for years was fundamentally wrong, destructive, should cause a growing rejection of forces somehow connected with the well-being of the Ukrainian state "on the other side of the border". And we have achieved such a rejection - yes, these people still mostly speak Russian, yes, they read our segment of the Internet, yes, they can come to earn money in the Russian Federation - but do not indulge in illusions, Ukraine is no longer "ours" and will be ours - we have become much further from Ukraine than we were in 2014.
    1. sniperino
      sniperino 7 December 2020 14: 50
      -1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      a person lives in Ukraine, walks along Ukrainian streets ... he probably will not really like that somewhere there is a state that has been arranging trash-tent around his country for many years, mixed with some mossy "healthy" speeches about the old brotherhood
      On a hike, a person is not walking, but flying, if he does not notice what the big top is going on in his country, and how this big top speaks about Russia and the Russians, prohibiting all "healthy" speech.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 7 December 2020 15: 16
        +11
        Since 2014, I have heard a lot of forecasts and gray-haired "kind of analytical" heads constantly slapped with mousetraps on the topic of the imminent collapse of Ukraine, the imminent civil war, the collapse of its economy, etc., and so on ... The media were also expecting this.
        But the years passed, and these processes did not exist. NO. And we still, like some kind of defective organ, hammer and hammer everything the same, like a mantra, endlessly stuck in 2014-2015. I do not understand for whom all this is broadcasting - if for work "in Ukraine", then this is an openly mediocre strategy, when the predictor repeatedly fails, predicting the end of the world, they stop believing him. If this is to work for us, in order to play on the contrast "there is a mess and here is stability" - then a critical trim has not yet arisen - neither Ukraine has fallen into the abyss, nor in the Russian Federation has there been a festival "harvest" on the date "2020").
        We do not cut a bun for Belarus, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kyrgyzstan - everything has been pouring into Ukraine for many years now. And who else really believes that it will add sympathy to us there? Among the elites, among the population, in the intellectual, business, working environment? Yes, their agitprop often works just as low and vulgar - sometimes even lower and more vulgar, but to go down to this level and so organically stay on it is below our dignity, below the dignity of the "Superpower" super mega plans. What's the plan? At the right time to fill up some Medvedchuk / Rabinovich with dough, which is less and less, so that these people hastily riveted on their knees sewn with white threads "real truth" and the eternal friendship of peoples?
        Our arguments about "how and whether" we should return Ukraine are torn from the agenda - first we need to drive out our own propagandists with these same rags and change the disc, because now we are playing along well with those forces that want to turn Ukraine against us.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 7 December 2020 16: 05
          -4
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          Since 2014, I have heard a lot of forecasts and gray-haired "kind of analytical" heads constantly slapped with mousetraps on the topic of the imminent collapse of Ukraine, the imminent civil war, the collapse of its economy, etc., and so on ... The media were also expecting this.
          But the years passed, and these processes did not exist. NO.

          what do you want from "collapse"? - Somalia, Yemen are within their borders ... but this does not mean that they are not ruined !!!!
          What kind of war is there in Donbass? isn't it civilian?
          Ukraine is the poorest state in Europe, more than 33% of the population is below the poverty line, a complete degradation of industry is not an economic collapse?
          all predictions came true / come true !!!!!!
          more than 25 local residents hanged themselves in the deputy's private forest in Ukraine !!!
          it is in Ukraine you can kill a person on the air and not go to jail !!!
          isn't this the collapse of state institutions?
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          then the critical trim has not yet occurred

          and what trim would suit you? - A 20-year-old foreign car is the ultimate dream of a 40-year-old Ukrainian !!!!, In Russia it is 2-3 salaries !!!! - WHAT DIFFERENT DO YOU NEED ???? !!!!!
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 7 December 2020 18: 53
            +3
            In Russia, the authorities have the same impunity.
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ 8 December 2020 12: 46
              0
              Quote: Kronos
              In Russia, the authorities have the same impunity.

              give examples
        2. sniperino
          sniperino 7 December 2020 16: 31
          -1
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          gray-haired "kakby analytical" heads constantly slapped with mousetraps on the theme of the imminent collapse of Ukraine, the imminent civil war, the collapse of its economy, etc., etc.
          And in Donbass, what is not a civilian in the truce stage? Is the economy not under a drip on IMF loans? I haven't died yet ...
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 7 December 2020 16: 41
            +6
            Comparing a frostbitten conflict with a civil war is incorrect and not serious. You are practically assimilating in such comparisons to some zealous Ukrainian "experts" who believe that they are at war with the Russian Federation.
            If we talk like that, then in our country, too, from 1994 to 2009, there was a civil war over what was happening in the Chechen Republic.
            Well, as for loans, I don't even know which is better - to take muddy loans around the world or to distribute muddy loans around the world? I think some Ukrainian experts can also make fun of our irrevocable tranches both to their country and to the "developing" countries of Africa / Asia and Latin America.
            And if we have delved into finance, it would be worth taking a closer look at what is happening around the owners of our own resource-extracting companies. For example, recently the United States in an open ultimatum changed the leadership of RusAl to a profitable one. And this is far from an isolated example of how foreign financial circles are turning us around in exactly the same way as Ukraine.
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 7 December 2020 22: 03
              0
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              they twist us in exactly the same way as Ukraine.
              Are you exaggerating anything?
            2. NEOZ
              NEOZ 8 December 2020 12: 49
              0
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              also from 1994 to 2009 there was a civil war

              why 2009?
              Quote: Knell Wardenheart
              There was a civil war over what was happening in the Chechen Republic.

              of course civil! what questions can there be?
              1. Knell wardenheart
                Knell wardenheart 8 December 2020 13: 36
                0
                Date of official the end of the "WHO".
                Official Russian historiography will disagree with your interpretation.
    2. Overlock
      Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 53
      +36
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      And we have achieved such a rejection - yes, these people still mostly speak Russian, yes, they read our segment of the Internet, yes, they can come to earn money in the Russian Federation - but do not indulge in illusions, Ukraine is no longer "ours" and will be ours - we have become much further from Ukraine than we were in 2014.

      Here are the right words! Some people want to solve the issue
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ 8 December 2020 12: 50
        0
        Quote: Overlock
        they want to solve the issue

        and decide ...
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 7 December 2020 18: 04
      +1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      .Our information policy in the coverage of Ukrainian "affairs" for years has been fundamentally wrong, destructive, should cause a growing rejection of the forces at least somehow connected with the well-being of the Ukrainian state "on the other side of the border".

      This is a lie, if only because all the years of independence I have been to Ukraine for at least a month every year, sometimes more than once, and saw with my own eyes everything that happened there. Moreover, since I studied the Ukrainian language at school for nine years, I not only understood their speech, but also read their articles in Ukrainian in the Russian-language media. Do you even know that half of the texts in "MK" or "Komsomolskaya Pravda" were in Ukrainian? And what they wrote about Russia and Russians, our media would never have thought to write about Ukrainians - there was such a negative that many do not know about.
      So leave alone our "information policy", which only in recent years has ceased to curry favor with Svidomo, and began to show what they really are. There are practically no forces in Ukraine that would dream of living in one state with Russia, and those who want this, do not represent anything at all due to their small numbers and age. That is why the illusion that it is possible to agree on something with the Ukrainians is absurd - they only see one option for themselves, in which we must support them for free. And they could see this already in the nineties, when they did not hide their claims that Russia allegedly appropriated all the wealth of the USSR and for this it should forever feed the Ukrainians.
      Sucks you know that audience, and your desire to sprinkle ashes on your head only testifies to the fact that you don't know Ukrainian society from the inside at all, and about which I have a completely different idea.
    4. t-12
      t-12 11 December 2020 21: 42
      0
      Our information policy in the coverage of Ukrainian "affairs" for years has been fundamentally wrong, destructive, and should cause growing rejection
      The Russian elite is not interested in Ukraine, except as a gas transit country (but this is a forced interest). Hence the "rejecting" propaganda in the media. The Ukrainian elite is behaving the same way.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 11 December 2020 23: 32
        0
        Behind all these reflections that one or another elite needs, in my opinion, the phenomenon of "sediment" is much more important. Now, in an era when everything is pretty thoroughly documented and has been on the Internet for decades, one loud and smelly "POK!" will repeatedly resonate in the future for a very long time. It's much easier to ruin a relationship than it is to mend it. So we have to learn to look ahead if we want to be a really great power.
        1. t-12
          t-12 11 December 2020 23: 48
          0
          everything is pretty well documented

          ... and quite quickly rewrites, invented and forgotten. And what is "incorrectly" documented is declared enemy propaganda.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 7 December 2020 13: 07
    +1
    And suddenly, the country had just started to crawl out of the hole. How to shout toasts to the Kremlin, so the cars in the yards, how to return the Russian land, so the land is not ours and there is no money.
  • igorra
    igorra 7 December 2020 13: 11
    -4
    The most important thing is to accurately divide into Russians and Svidomo. And then the grandmother of the daughter-in-law let slip that she was half Ukrainian, or rather said her mother was from Little Russia. This is how Ukrainians climbed into my family without soap.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 7 December 2020 13: 58
      +3
      Quote: igorra
      The most important thing is to accurately divide into Russians and Svidomo.

      what is the recipe?
      1. TAMBU
        TAMBU 7 December 2020 15: 35
        +1
        the methods are probably the same as before - qang caliper, etc.
      2. NEOZ
        NEOZ 7 December 2020 16: 07
        -1
        Quote: Silvestr
        what is the recipe?

        I wrote to you above ...
  • Camrad
    Camrad 7 December 2020 13: 13
    +5
    In the spring of 2014, after the reunification of Russia and Crimea, Sevastopol residents began to observe the following picture: all the city's roads were clogged with expensive foreign cars with Donetsk and Luhansk license plates, in which it was not women and disabled people who were driving, but quite healthy, and even hefty men. New buildings in the city (sometimes as whole high-rise buildings) began to be urgently bought by them, plus the local authorities settled "refugees" in boarding houses and recreation centers. Residents of the city began collecting help for them, although even then many "refugees" were dissatisfied - either they did not bring sun cream, or they moved away from the sea (this is not a metaphor, literally). And at this time, stupid Sevastopol participants in the Russian spring, well, those who "... after standing for two days with sticks at the checkpoints (medals are still being handed out), and then handing over all responsibility to" polite people "", went to recapture Donbass from the junta. We arrived in the Donetsk region, and there they were not welcome at all, like we were fine in Ukraine. Ours pushed around there for half a year, received wounds and terrible impressions, and even got back to their place, to the Crimea, as the command from above passed "Since the people of Donbass did not support, there is nothing to torment them ..." And if so, the question is, do we really need this part of Ukraine at all?
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 7 December 2020 14: 50
      -3
      Oga, again, the khatoskrainiks did not want to get under the bullets, here are the scoundrels.
      1. Camrad
        Camrad 7 December 2020 14: 57
        +2
        Yes exactly. By chance at sea, I overheard a conversation of a Donetsk resident on the phone: "I ??? ... fight ??? Putin started this war, so let him fight."
    2. t-12
      t-12 11 December 2020 21: 49
      +1
      expensive foreign cars with Donetsk and Luhansk license plates
      They are everywhere like that. What's in Kiev, what's in Donetsk, what's in Moscow. They do not like to risk their lives. I remember how a friend of mine in 2014 also rushed to Crimea to buy real estate (with the expectation that in a couple of years it will rise in price).
  • Vadim Golubkov
    Vadim Golubkov 7 December 2020 13: 16
    +2
    What is the difference between Russian from Belgorod. Kaliningrad from the Russian from Vladivostok, Arkhangelsk, Moscow, Novgorod, from the Russians in Kiev? Nothing, when we arrived at the exit guard, at first part of Ivano-Frankivsk while they were standing at the Station until the part of the grandfather came on a bicycle, we have a lot of food, they drove him a can there of 3 liters and another half of 1.5 for 20 rubles for two bubbles ... 2 carriages that guarded us, they said we were taking some parts, It was also interesting, we ran out of water, at the station near Frankfurt on the Main, with Doler we go to the water station to take, with machine guns with combat cartridges, we say Water Water to the Germans, they are afraid to see really they are looking at the machines, we do not understand why they are scared, we are kind, they show them ... Then we came to Kiev, we scooped up a year, at the train station in Kiev we were given to drink by the men, they drank on the sly, (they handed over their weapons to the commandant's office in Kiev, slept in the fire department) because we have a Major, but he was kind, too, he closed his eyes, though he scolded me ,, in general, you walk along Khreshchatyk, and we are in Afghans, I, Kolya Trifonov, Doler Tajik, we are honored by the soldiers, we did not get it, then the soldier tells us we take you for officers, the uniform, we say we are such soldiers, in general we drank , Cinema Tsoi Vitya badges, the sellers just gave us, in general, from Kiev, positive memories, pardon the many words, I have drunk now, we are Russians, and in Ukraine and they, Maidan people, are crazy. Galicians are crazy of course not. And so the Left Bank and there are 500 km, Galicia and Lvov, let them be more than theirs :) And let the Maidanovites not forget that the Russian language is a part of the Russian World from which they want to detach themselves from being mankurt, but the freaks do not succeed.
  • Vadim Golubkov
    Vadim Golubkov 7 December 2020 13: 18
    +1
    Army Fat. P.S.
  • sevryuk
    sevryuk 7 December 2020 13: 25
    0
    "Let the people loyal to Moscow settle in these territories of Ukraine "
    The cotton was burned after all ...
    in theory, one should say, "... people loyal to Moscow from Kuev and Lutsk ..."
    Feudalism, it is such feudalism!
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 7 December 2020 13: 28
    -3
    All Banderlog in the Galician garbage and let them jump on their heads. And the Russian lands must be returned from Kharkov to Odessa.
  • cdrt
    cdrt 7 December 2020 13: 37
    -2
    Nafig are not needed. They can work only out of hand, the authorities will placate them, placing them in positions of responsibility, where they will steal as they used to. This can be clearly seen in Crimea. 30 years to nurture a new generation accustomed to abiding by the laws
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 7 December 2020 13: 44
    +1
    This topic is complex, multi-layered and requires comprehensive reflection.

    That's it!
    Polemics: Does Moscow Need All Ukraine?

    According to the presumptive section:

    It only requires a decision from the Ukrainian people, who must ask themselves:
    "Is the Russian people so fiercely hated by them (that I cannot eat) and the Russian language (that the language gets stuck when pronouncing a word in Russian) that they prefer to be a colony of the West?"
    hi
    1. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 7 December 2020 14: 21
      +4
      Quote: ROSS 42
      "Is the Russian people so fiercely hated by them (that I cannot eat) and the Russian language (that the language gets stuck when pronouncing a word in Russian) that they prefer to be a colony of the West?"

      And why did you decide that you yourself are not living in a colony?
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 7 December 2020 15: 02
        +1
        Quote: Alexey Sommer
        And why did you decide that you yourself are not living in a colony?

        I could tell you honestly what is the name of the way of life in which we live. So ... In a few sentences ... Only the moderators will not miss. I will make only one remark. Yesterday NTV showed the program:
        [media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = BpYJMrLNANE]
        I advise you to look, and you will understand which guys and girls and with what "pimply conscience" raked the assets of the USSR, how they did it and what could have stopped them. And then think about what will happen if such (like them) people fall into power. The 2018 pension reform will be compared to this Christmas present.
        Quote: iouris
        Does Moscow need subsidized regions?

        The question should be posed differently: "Who needs Russian (Russian-speaking) people today, with a stroke of the pen of three criminals who found themselves in divided states?"
        Russia did not stand alone, stands and will stand.
  • iouris
    iouris 7 December 2020 13: 47
    -2
    Does Moscow need subsidized regions?
  • Svarog
    Svarog 7 December 2020 13: 47
    +3
    Of course you need .. here without question, the Westerners only to send to the Poles.
    1. iouris
      iouris 8 December 2020 18: 27
      -1
      Are the Westerners not people?
  • Dimide
    Dimide 7 December 2020 13: 51
    -1
    The question is: - Will the people of Ukraine agree to voluntarily go "under the arm of Moscow"? !!
    According to the latest polls, no.
    The independence of Ukraine is supported by 85% of the population
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 7 December 2020 14: 18
      +1
      Entrust the poll to VTsIOM and you will get exactly the opposite number .. laughing
      1. Dimide
        Dimide 7 December 2020 14: 34
        0
        I rely on the data of Rating and KIIS as the least biased and having a business reputation.
        VTsIOM is a committed organization
      2. Overlock
        Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 56
        +34
        Quote: paul3390
        Entrust the poll to VTsIOM and you will get exactly the opposite number ..

        As Pamfilova thinks, everyone knows. If you believe VTsIOM, the Russians themselves asked to raise the retirement age. So don't roll this resource
    2. NEOZ
      NEOZ 7 December 2020 16: 10
      -3
      Quote: Dimid
      The independence of Ukraine is supported by 85% of the population

      30 years ago it was less than 5% ..... this is a reversible process .....
  • BAI
    BAI 7 December 2020 13: 57
    +3
    Are pensions and wages raised? Local manufacturers and retailers, including those working with the government, immediately run to raise prices to loud applause from the regulatory authorities.

    Well this is still godly. In Russia, power will only promise to raise and announces the advance date like a trade immediately raises prices.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 7 December 2020 14: 16
    -1
    Quote: Silvestr
    It turns out that for the sake of conquering territories, you are ready to lay down the lives of our guys and get in return the Bandera movement in the rear? It should be recalled that the USSR did not succeed in crushing this hydra and we now see the results of this.

    Do we have a way out? We will not come to them - sooner or later the Banderlog will come to us .. The owners will force .. As for the rear, nobody offers to take the Banderlog regions. And the Russians - to clean them out. The USSR - they even managed to crush the Bandera, and if it were not for Khrushch, who sent them home - now they would not have heard of them .. The main thing here is not to suffer from liberal pseudo-humanism .. For our enemies - they will definitely not suffer in relation to us ...
  • svoit
    svoit 7 December 2020 14: 23
    +1
    Quote: Dimid
    According to the latest polls, no.
    The independence of Ukraine is supported by 75% of the population

    We must work with this, so that at least in Novorossiya the ratio would be the opposite. But for this Russia must be an enviable neighbor, not a pathetic traitor. When the Ukrainian special forces smashed the Kharkiv administration, the Russian one is not at all clear what was doing
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 7 December 2020 15: 58
      +34
      Quote: svoit
      This is what you need to work with

      who was in the way when the door was opened? Now the window is also covered
      Quote: svoit
      at least in Novorossia, the ratio would be the opposite

      according to polls in the LDNR, 30% are for Russia, 30% for Ukraine, the rest are undecided.
  • g1v2
    g1v2 7 December 2020 14: 53
    +2
    Personally, I perceive today's situation as simply a new feudal fragmentation. There is no independent Ukraine or Belarus. There are the Kiev and Minsk principalities, which broke away from a single country. The established state is an organism. If you chop off an arm or a leg, then it will continue to live, but it will definitely not become healthier. request In this case, our breakaway principalities will definitely be used against us by our competitors. This is their favorite method - Taiwan - PRC, South Korea - DPRK, Pakistan - India, now Ukraine - Russia. Do we really want to be in a cold-hot war with our former provinces for decades? Who was the GUAM bloc against? And if it will ride with Ukraine and Belarus, then why can't it ride in the Caucasus or Siberia, or in Voronezh, the Krasnodar Territory, or even in St. Petersburg? In the 90s we wrote "Ingermanlandia" at the doorways, and there were a lot of silly people telling us that "we are real Europe, and Moscow is a big Asian village". request
    About the population. Yes, in fact, it does not differ from ours. We ourselves had Maidans and under the west we lay the same way. All these "we are not like that" for people with selective memory. The population is programmed. How it is molded - so it will in fact be. It is clear that everything has limits, but exactly the same Russian people live on dill and in the Republic of Belarus, overwhelmingly speaking Russian and belonging to our culture and civilization. What who wants there now is absolutely not important. It is only important what we and our state want. angry
    At the same time, you do not need to immediately run somewhere and grab onto something. Any action requires a window of opportunity, resources, funds and manpower. Yes, and without this, there are enough cases. At the same time, the state is conducting dozens of major projects. But why should we give up part of our people and historical lands, and not the outskirts and colonies, but a piece of the metropolis?
    1. t-12
      t-12 11 December 2020 22: 04
      -1
      But why give up part of your people and historical lands, and not the outskirts and colonies, but a piece of the metropolis, why?
      Then, that the Russian feudal lords have oil and gas fields and pipes, as well as other raw material enterprises, where you can quickly and easily "raise the loot." Everything else is not interesting to the Russian feudal lords. What can we say about Ukraine if even the Russian regions (Siberia, Far East) are bent, and the people are bringing down to Moscow (the capital of the feudal principality)?
  • Linxs
    Linxs 7 December 2020 14: 54
    +1
    Quote: sniperino
    I suppose they are aiming to label Stalin and the USSR as a fascist.

    If you believe something, then please with evidence, facts, quotes.

    And please do not pass off your conjectures and fantasies as someone else's words and answers.
    Themselves invented a conjecture, they themselves voiced it. You live interesting and fun.

    How Stalin and the USSR sided with fascism in the context of Ukraine in 2020 is difficult to understand ...
  • awdrgy
    awdrgy 7 December 2020 15: 13
    +2
    It all depends on what banners are in Russia With the current ones, this is not possible With some others, everything is possible (at least part of it entirely) People are accustomed that they are Ukrainians, they will get used to that Russians Ninety percent of people live depending on what conditions they are put in And this is purely technical question no more
  • TAMBU
    TAMBU 7 December 2020 15: 21
    +4
    Ukrainian mentality, which does not imply such concepts as "law", "responsibility", "honesty" or "the good of society"

    everything is clear ... ziganul even before publication?
  • Egor-dis
    Egor-dis 7 December 2020 15: 59
    +1
    Egorka Makhov's campaign was bitten by Bandera.
  • Cool but not Igor
    Cool but not Igor 7 December 2020 16: 34
    +2
    Orthodox, patriarchal, oriented with every fiber of their soul to Russia. But - warped by living in Ukraine

    Take off your glasses! Do you think people in Russia are not like that? Yes, exactly the same and the point is not in the warped brains of Ukraine! But in the human being as such. How many Russian South Kuril residents do you say sold their homeland, calling themselves Japanese for the sake of the Green Card?
  • wow
    wow 7 December 2020 17: 43
    +1
    A couple of days ago I met such a "hungweiping" in Odessa. This body screamed and jumped in the market, on the topic - we will return the Crimea, we will cut the Donbass and Lugansk and so on. The people (and I, including), who came out of the fund, just gave him p ... It is unlikely that the ambulance helped him already.
    1. Cool but not Igor
      Cool but not Igor 7 December 2020 20: 10
      0
      Oh, the contingent of this site came out of the bazaar fund! Our people still have no hopes and prospects, it's good that I dumped
  • Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 7 December 2020 17: 48
    +1
    Moscow and, figuratively, do not need problem areas in the Russian Federation.
    The remnants of imperial ambitions were realized in the Crimea and require a lot of money. And they are not.
    So demand a forceful capture-
    1-Expensive
    2-look at the first.
    So it is possible to show off in front of partners and verbally. By the way, the partners approve of the military budget without a "threat." Citizens will ask uncomfortable questions.
    Therefore, it is beneficial.
    Second, what is being realized in the world. This is not a seizure, not a force, but a peaceful, commercial, soft power, cultural and economic expansion .... and then a failure. Well, the image is not attractive.
    During the period of ultra-high oil prices, the Russian Federation was a very attractive place and image for Russian-speaking and post-Soviet in general.
    It was necessary to transform surplus profits into loyalty, cultural, economic and trade components in loyal territories, but this was not done. They preferred their own, special way. Sawing, joint cutting of carbohydrates. It's easier.
    Someone invested in their image, economy and soft power. Someone is not. And "Bandera" and not such people got caught is an excuse. Ambition led to Crimea, and a crisis in relations. The rest of the loyalty was sold in exchange for geopolitical games with partners.
    Therefore, we explain that they all were and will be byaks and Bandera. Therefore, nothing will work out.
    Very strange. Won Vietnam fought with the United States. It is tough. And nothing. Relationships are normal now.
    Japan has even been attacked by atomic bombs. And nothing. The American cult rules there.
    The United States has a normal relationship with England, but they are the "separatists" they have. Separated as a result of the war. And Canada is normal with the former mistress. And Australia.
    So what's stopping you from acting like everyone else? Softly, culturally, trade-economic interest?
    Do you need ambitions without money - to divide, take away, force, shoot dissenters, filter out dissidents?
    For the 21st century, an unviable idea that causes rejection and struggle against it.
    1. t-12
      t-12 11 December 2020 22: 16
      0
      Softly, culturally, trade-economic interest?
      With economic interest, Russia tried to act until 2014, proposed the Customs Union. The Ukrainian oligarchy decided that the Americans would pay more, removed Yanukovych and began to trade in anti-Russian politics.

      And in general, economically with Russia was connected East Ukraine. AND west Ukraine received nothing from trade with Russia. Well, apart from money for gas transit. Those. there is also an internal Ukrainian disassembly.
      1. Niel-le-Calais
        Niel-le-Calais 12 December 2020 22: 21
        -1
        Quote: t-12
        With economic interest, Russia tried to act until 2014, proposed the Customs Union

        I note that the discussion of the CU or the EU was hot. It was clear that a lot was inclined towards the vehicle and such cooperation. You can safely say that half of the country and business. (Wait a stammer and you won't get 1%)
        The Moscow agreements were pretty good on paper (the second part of Ukraine could also be part of the purchase)
        Quote: t-12
        The Ukrainian oligarchy decided that the Americans would pay more, removed Yanukovych and began trading anti-Russian policies.

        Well, there is a recent example of 2004, such an attempt. Traded and returned. The positions of the Russian Federation have strengthened, and Ukraine has become more and more owned by Russian capital.
        The whole secret was that there was no Krymnash and Moscow patiently waited for the power to change. Only one term. No sanctions on the Russian Federation, no spending there. They themselves came and offered them themselves.
        That's the whole secret. Business only. Wait one time, bring your own (well, almost your own) and you can again cut the National Treasure.
        By the way, Yanukovych bargained for the same anti-Russian rhetoric (but this is economic more than cultural)
        any president sat on three chairs. (EU US / RF / China) Example RB.
        But money from the Russian Federation sawed better than other money.
        In general, it was banal that it was not necessary to touch this Ukraine after Maidan 2. The same as with the first.
        And everything would be good for the Russian Federation. At least it's not like it is now. Just wait would have already brought "the second Yanukovich" and sold the other half to Russian structures.
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 7 December 2020 18: 12
    0
    To begin with, recognize the LPR and DPR as states and begin full-fledged diplomatic relations with them, and within the administrative boundaries of Donetsk and Lugansk regions. The United States does not recognize Crimea as the territory of the Russian Federation, but this does not hinder Russia. Little by little, Western firms are starting to work in Crimea. Crimean mentality? Yes, a problem, but a solvable one. Not immediately, because for almost 50 years the Crimea was part of the Ukrainian SSR-Ukraine. Two generations have grown over the years. Russia will strengthen, everything will settle down with the Crimea. Issuance of Russian passports in the LDNR-half measure. Letting everyone from Ukraine into Russia, I'm against it. Only through a polygraph.
  • AAK
    AAK 7 December 2020 18: 41
    +2
    In my opinion, proceeding from the preamble of this opus, the author followed the events in Crimea exclusively through the plots of Ukrainian television, or he was terribly offended that he did not get "medals", they bypassed the disease, did not appreciate, but he waved the flag so beautifully and loudly "hurray "shouted at the rally" KRYMNASH "on Russian territory ...
    Who, with what and how many "at checkpoints" stood, what happened before and what after - it is not for him to judge, there is no knowledge of the realities, the word is absolutely, completely ridiculous - about very high salaries in Crimea, especially at the current exchange rates (for your information, until now, a "mainland" business trip on an equal position receives at least a third, or even one and a half to two times more than a "correctly rebelled one") and Moscow-Petersburg prices due to Crimea being in the logistic appendix .. . that before the seizures of land - it used to be for the Tatars, and now for the new Gauleiters, especially in this regard, the two previous Sevastopol administrations distinguished themselves, browse the Internet, you will learn a lot ... also the absolute majority of Crimean health resorts and hotels on the South Coast have new owners appeared from the mainland ... to take the same Gref, who has savings in the Crimea "like he is afraid to work because of possible sanctions", but at the same time (however, cleverly, through a pad, "Mriya" owns the best hotel in Crimea and all spring and summer, don't see squad for the crown, once a week or two spent a weekend there, arriving on a charter with a team of "snacks").
    And as for the "need" of territories - this is where the argumentation is lame, the very last thing that the Russian leadership will pay attention to in this matter is what they think about this in Kiev, in Lvov, in Donetsk ... it is necessary to exclude the possibility of a blockade or military operations in Transnistria, as well as to ensure the internal Russian status of the Sea of ​​Azov and prevent the creation of a NATO naval base in Odessa, Nikolaev or Kherson regions - a corridor from Mariupol to Izmail (with a border in the north through Zaporozhye and Dnepropetrovsk) is formed in one and a half -two months ... And what a pretext for this will be - compulsion to peace, a humanitarian operation, the elimination of terrorists who seized the South Ukrainian nuclear power plant or aid to the rebellious Odessa - the Russian leadership will decide without such "iksperds" ...
  • Egor-dis
    Egor-dis 7 December 2020 18: 55
    +2
    I read Yegor Makhov and the suspicion arises that he either suffers from a split personality, or works in tandem with some kind of banderlog. Because any first part of any of his articles is usually diametrically opposite (or generally in a different plane) to the conclusions he makes in the second part. With such a level of analytics, it can be argued that the days are shorter in winter and longer in summer because in winter they shrink from the cold and in summer they lengthen from the heat.
    Anyway. He threw it over the fan notably.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 7 December 2020 20: 56
    -1
    Moscow, except for oil and gas hacienda, does not need anything at all.