"The service life of the AI-222 engine is half as much": the Brazilian press explained the advantages of the M-346FA

AI-222-25

Russian products were again overboard in a tender for the supply of combat training aircraft. This time we are talking about the possible transfer of six machines of this profile to the Uruguayan Air Force (with an option for 6 units).

Italian long-liver

The country's Ministry of Defense intends to acquire a light jet fighter to replace the fleet of decommissioned American Cessna A-37 Dragonfly attack aircraft. The Italian M-346FA, the Chinese L-15B, the South Korean FA-50 and the Swedish Gripen C are considered as candidates. One of the key requirements is the placement of the radar on board. As the Blog Before Flight explains, the M-346 has every chance of winning:

Montevideo prefers the M-346FA due to the advanced technologies required in the aircraft, the low cost of a flight hour, and the long life cycle of the airframe and engine.

As explained, the service life of the fuselage is estimated at about 8 flight hours, the power plant at 000 hours with overhaul every 4 hours. This means that the operation of the machine will last 000 years if only one engine is replaced during the entire service life (with the calculation annual flight time of 2-000 hours).

AI-222 in outsiders

For comparison, the Brazilian edition of Cavok points to the operational characteristics of a Chinese aircraft developed with the assistance of Yakovlev's OBK:

L-15, for example, has an insufficient life cycle of no more than 4000 hours. And that's not counting the fact that it is equipped with AI-222 engines from [Ukrainian developer] Ivchenko-Progress with a confirmed service life of no more than 1500 hours and overhaul every 700-800 hours. This means that the service life of this engine is half that of the M-346.

Cavok points out that it is possible to extend the operation of the L-15 by adding 2 to 3 overtime hours, "but that would mean substantial additional costs, not to mention five engine replacements over the life of the aircraft."

For our part, we note that the AI-222 is equipped with the Russian UBS Yak-130. Accordingly, this machine may also have the disadvantages of the L-15. The Russian media previously voiced hints about a simple significant part of the fleet of these aircraft, which are in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces. An indirect confirmation of the problems with the power plant is the constant work carried out by the UEC to modernize the power plant.

As explained on December 1 in Rostec, the engine is being improved at the site of the Salut complex (Moscow). Moreover, the corresponding work began immediately after the start of the serial production of the unit in 2009. To date, a modification of the engine has been created, which is 4 times higher than in 2009 (it is at the stage of approval by the Ministry of Defense). Moreover, according to Rostec, since 2015, AI-222-25 has been completely manufactured from Russian components.

Comments

[Jacket in stock]

Well, yes, buying a good thing once for a high price can be cheaper than many times cheaper but bad ones.

[Orange bigg]

So this is an insufficient life cycle for Ukrainian engines. We will be better with this business.

Rostec increased the resource of the AI-222-25 engine for the Yak-130 by four times

December 1, 2020, AviaStat.ru - The United Engine Corporation of Rostec has applied new materials and modern technologies to increase the engine resource of the Yak-130 combat trainer. Thanks to this, since 2016, the resource of the unit, which is assembled at the Salyut production complex, has doubled, and since the start of its serial production in 2009, it has quadrupled.

An increase in the resource of the AI-222-25 engine will make it possible to maintain aircraft flight readiness without major repairs for much longer, to reduce costs and reduce labor costs for maintenance.

“This engine is reliable and in demand both in Russia and abroad, for example, in the countries of Asia, Africa and Latin America. The Ministry of Defense of Russia and foreign customers have more than 400 such units in operation as part of the Yak-130. The introduced improvements made it possible to increase the resource of the current engine modification by 2 times, and if compared with 2009, when the unit began to be mass-produced, by 4 times. At the moment, we are working on the issues of further improving the efficiency and reliability of this engine, its deep modernization, ”said Anatoly Serdyukov, industrial director of the aviation cluster of Rostec State Corporation.

https://www.aex.ru/news/2020/12/1/220058/

[Constanty]

We will be better with this case

It will or won't. Future will tell. In the meantime, we compare the actual parameters of the M-346 engine with the STATED parameters of the updated engine, the parameters that WILL be the same. And not that they were so present.

I am a little surprised because Russia has all the technology, trained personnel and resources to produce the best engines in the world.

[VO3A]

The author of the article is a provocateur! The Russian plane did not participate in the tender of the Uruguayan Air Force! This time. What side is the Yak-130?
The author did not indicate the cost of the aircraft and the engine when compared with the Russian aircraft and in general ... Maybe the engine and the aircraft are much cheaper and even an additional replacement of the engine will retain this advantage. It's two! The cost of the M-346 is about $ 35 million, the Yak-130 - 15, the Chinese can sell for 10, depending on the configuration ...
And thirdly, the engine does not always work out a full cycle before repair, especially on a military aircraft and from field airfields ... Premature engine removal is a common phenomenon ... And additional repairs are more expensive for Italians ...
But most importantly: who will give Uruguay to buy Chinese and even more so Russian planes, in our time !!!

[Bersaglieri]

The "side" is that the M-346 is, in fact, the same Yak-130 (in terms of the airframe), but with a different "stuffing". The project started in the 90s as a joint Russian-Italian project. But then the "effective menagers" on our part lost everything (as usual, "having mastered the means" but not delivering the products on time), and the Italians further vowed to work with them.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/attack/m346.html

[Bersaglieri]

Again "pots-idiots" "minus"? Oh well :)

[TermNachTer]

Where did the author of the article get the data from? A good thing is twice as expensive))) it turns out that a bad thing with all repairs will cost less than an expensive one. And if you have to change engines, then an expensive thing will become prohibitively expensive. Not to mention that the engines are mattress there, and this is a very dangerous partner.

[Reserve buildbat]

Is the AI-222 of Ukrainian design? Not Soviet? Just wondering. Here now they are shouting fiercely about everything, whatever they hit, that these are Soviet developments, and Russia can do nothing. So can skakuasiya?

[Eugene-Eugene]

No, it’s Ukrainian. In the 2000s, they could still create.

[Reserve buildbat]

Thanks. Let's see))) By the way, now we need to call AI-222-25 Ukrainian or can we call Russian?)))

[Eugene-Eugene]

They will call AI-222-25R, no one gets used to it. Moreover, judging by the fourfold increase in the resource, this is no longer a Ukrainian product.

[figwam]

Quote: Stroibat stock

By the way, now we need to call the AI-222-25 Ukrainian, or can we call it Russian?)))

AI-225 was made from AI-22, which was created jointly by Russia and Ukraine.

[Equalized]

Ukrainian. Of course, Soviet technologies and developments are taken as a basis. In addition to the Motor Sich engine manufacturer's plant, Ukraine also has a design bureau for engine design, therefore, during the time of independence, several types of purely Ukrainian engines were created that were not produced in the USSR.

[Martian]

Come on? Maybe it is in Ukraine which is on Mars?

[TermNachTer]

Soviet, in Ukraine it was slightly updated - now AI - 322.

[Eug]

AI-222-25 - developed on the basis of the Soviet AI-25, which was originally on the Yak-40.

[NEOZ]

The country's Defense Ministry intends to acquire a light jet fighter

I wonder which fighter is from the M-346?

[donavi49]

Well, in that version, it's quite enough. AFAR Grifo from Leonardo + 4 V-V AIM-9 missiles or European Iris (as much as 25 km).

He can also carry CD and RCC.

So it's quite a sort of LMFI. True, it will come out a little expensive if it is used only for educational purposes.

Here is a brochure in Russian
https://www.leonardocompany.com/documents/20142/3151814/Aermacchi+M-346+FA_datasheet_RUSSIAN.pdf

[NEOZ]

Quote: donavi49

So it's quite a sort of LMFI.

Flight characteristics of the M-346
Maximum speed: 1060 km / h
Practical range:
with 100% of fuel: 2000 km
with 3 PTB: 2700 km
Ceiling: 13 700 m
Rate of climb: 112 m / s (6705 m / min)
Wing loading: 285 kg / m²
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 0,84
Length of takeoff: 420 m
path length: 550 m
Maximum operating overload: -3 / + 8 g

for comparison, the flight characteristics of the MiG21bis (3rd generation fighter)
Flight characteristics
Maximum speed at height: 2230 km / h
Maximum speed at the ground: 1300 km / h
Cruising speed: 1000 km / h
Distance flight:
without PTB: 1225 km
from PTB: 1470 km
Ceiling: 19 000 m
Rate of climb: m / s 235
Maximum operating overload: + 8,5 g

PS
on such a fighter, you can only shoot down corn workers ...

[donavi49]

But now it's not the 30s, where everyone was crazy about speed. Now everyone is obsessed with the filling. Probably MiG-21Bis will not even understand how it was shot down. For now only people can be made laugh with Sapphire. Whereas the 346 has a wide field AFAR. That is, in the front hemisphere, the 346 will light up the MiG in advance and choose the best tactics for use. Whereas the MiG will be able to find 346 only by chance (if it falls into a narrow radar field) or by guidance from the ground.

Well, in general, such aircraft are usually taken either in addition to the MFI, or as a replacement for outdated fighters, for solving basic tasks. Well, for example, escort a passenger plane, squeeze out the offender, force the drug plane to land / shoot down, perhaps even counteract any primitive UAVs from Alishka that drug dealers have also mastered. It is expensive to keep some F-16s or MiGs for this.

[NEOZ]

Quote: donavi49

everyone was crazy about speed.

everyone is obsessed with completing the task!
speed is a tool for solving the problem!

[donavi49]

Well, now until the 5M + planes do it, speed is important, but not critical. Especially for such a range of tasks where you don't need to chase super-sonics. But the filling is critical. At the speed level in the 30s. To achieve task completion.

[NEOZ]

Quote: donavi49

Especially for such a range of tasks where you don't need to chase super sonics. But the filling is critical. At the speed level in the 30s. To achieve task completion.

if we imagine a hypothetical military conflict of Uruguay with 12 M-346 against Uruguay with 12 Mig21-93 .... then, I think, the first Uruguay has no chances, after a while the MiG21 will dominate the sky.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

after some time MiGs will beat themselves against the firmament of the earth, meetings with 346 are not necessary for this.

[Eug]

You don't even need 12 to 12 - take at the cost of 12 Macaques (Aermacki) the equivalent in the MiG-21-93 with the Spear or its further modifications minus a couple of MiGs for training a large number of pilots .. in battles - I am sure that MiGs will be better, but here in peacetime, the cost of operating the M-346 will be much less. Once again, the truth is confirmed - it is more pleasant (perhaps cheaper) to dress up in peacetime on bourgeois technology, but in reality it is better to fight on Soviet technology (if, of course, the l / s is prepared) ...

[Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich]

For our part, we note that the AI-222 is equipped with the Russian UBS Yak-130. Accordingly, this machine may also have the disadvantages of the L-15. The Russian media previously voiced hints about a simple significant part of the fleet of these aircraft, which are in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces. An indirect confirmation of the problems with the power plant is the constant work carried out by the UEC to modernize the power plant.

As explained on December 1 at Rostec, the engine is being improved at the site of the Salyut complex (Moscow). Moreover, the corresponding work began immediately after the start of serial production of the unit in 2009. To date, a modification of the engine has been created, which is 4 times higher than in 2009 (it is at the stage of approval by the Ministry of Defense).

In other words, in 2009, a "raw" engine was launched into the series, the characteristics of which left much to be desired, but by now, i.e. TEN YEARS LATER, they did "torment" ...

[molyr]

The United Engine Corporation Rostec has applied new materials and modern technologies to increase the engine life of the Yak-130 combat trainer. Thanks to this, since 2016, the resource of the unit, which is assembled at the Salyut production complex, has doubled, and since the start of its serial production in 2009, it has quadrupled.

something like

[iouris]

This is called life cycle cost (LCV).
It turns out that you will have to pay not only for the device itself, but also for maintenance, overhaul, personnel training, fuel, negative consequences of use, ..., disposal. In addition, during a downtime in a faulty state (for obvious reasons), the device is not able to realize high maneuverability, cannot be on alert ...

[Zaurbek]

Modern leasing allows long-term leases ... and higher costs are no longer important. The planes are not yours. You pay rent with or without purchase and expenses. Another thing is that this requires complete political and economic loyalty to the EU or the United States. What is especially tested in military technology.

[prior]

"Everyone chooses for himself - a woman, a religion, a road ..."

Brazilians want to fly on "eternal" Italians - nikhai, their right.
We also have the right, whose bananas to eat ...

[Zaurbek]

One of the key requirements is the placement of the radar on the board


On the Yak130 it is not ...

[Constanty]

It's just a matter of decision - an example of an M-346 that has a glider, let's call it "Yak-related," and could be squeezed into a radar on board. That is, on the Yak it was also possible

[donavi49]

No, on the Yak there is just the same Grifo. Perhaps still small Elta can be shoved. But there it will be much sadder out of the box.

There are no compact aircraft radars in Russia yet, as well as the need for them. And not very compact either. You can recall the MiG-35 - which in the first order comes with a slotted beetle, straight from the tube 80s. More or less starts with the size and power of the Su30.

[Zaurbek]

To do this, you need to have a serial production of AFAR ... or rather, the production of PPM, in order to collect the antenna of the desired shape from them. And this is not yet. Although for helicopters Mi and Ka some kind of AFAR presented and threatened to put on the NM and M version

[iouris]

As a certain Satanovsky puts it: "Shove in the unpushable."

[dima314]

The UEC happily reports that the resource has been increased by 4 times, but ... I have not found how many hours it is). Quite suspicious though. And if you take into account the cost of buying a training aircraft and the fact that it will be broken and beaten all the time, maybe it is not very good to have an expensive and durable resin? The cadet bangs him against the firmament and ... the resource is gone)

[mark1]

Quote: dima314

but ... I couldn't find how many hours it is).

Between overhauls 3000, assigned 6000
Before that in 2009 600/1200, in 2017 1500/3000

[nov_tech.vrn]

40 barrels of salted prisoners. Chinese plane, with Ukrainian engines, and this is a glitch in Russian weapons?

[Pavel57]

The article is pure provocation. The L-15 and its engine have nothing to do with the Russian aviation industry.

[Basarev]

Even in miserable Uruguay they see that our engines are full of seams. We did not buy into the victorious reports on television, which most people in Russia so easily believe.

[mark1]

Arseniy, everything is in order with the engines; 1500/3000 hours became 3000/6000. And this is 4 times compared to the start of production in Russia in 2009.

[Pavel57]

Quote: NEOZ

Quote: donavi49

everyone was crazy about speed.

everyone is obsessed with completing the task!
speed is a tool for solving the problem!

There are few examples when many of the requirements of TK, including the speed, were forgotten as a result. For example, the Su-24.

[Constanty]

A bit next to the topic - for how much in Russia can you buy an RD-33 2nd series engine for MiG-29 aircraft? Both new and used after renovation.

Because the Polish army just bought 3 refurbished ones, about $ 3 million each.

I wonder if this is the real price, or, as usual, strange brokers have made several times during this time?