Russian aircraft engine PD-8: the timing of the start of tests of the gas generator announced

The tests of the gas generator demonstrator for the new PD-8 mid-class engine are scheduled for early spring 2021. The managing director of "UEC-Saturn" Victor Polyakov told about it.

According to Polyakov, the first tests of the PD-8 gas generator are planned for March next year.

We carry out development work on a promising engine, but we do it in cooperation with UEC enterprises. We plan to assemble a demonstrator of a gas generator and conduct the first tests in March 2021

- he said.

As previously explained by the deputy head of the state corporation "Rostec" Vladimir Artyakov in an interview with TASS, the promising Russian engine PD-8 is being created for the SSJ 100 aircraft and the Be-200 amphibious aircraft. The PD-8 type certificate should be received in 2023.

In 2019, the deputy head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, Oleg Bocharov, announced that a new PD-8 middle-class engine was being created in Russia, the development was proceeding on the basis of technical solutions implemented in the PD-14. The engine is being created to replace the French SaM146.

At the same time, Bocharov clarified that only the "hot" part is being developed for the PD-8, everything else is already there.

We know what to do. Of course, this is a new gas generator, processes, calculations, but it is important that we are not starting from scratch. We already have a certified PD-14 engine, so we will have our own PD-8 medium engine quite calmly.

- he added.

Comments

[Antifreeze]

The engine was needed yesterday. Look forward to. Good luck to the developers.

[Civil]

Rather promising aircraft

[iouris]

Quote: Antifreeze

The engine was needed yesterday.

It's not even funny anymore. How many decades do you think there are in a day?

[Zaurbek]

Would write a good article about PD-14, 8, 35 .... What is ours, what is not ours and what are the prospects. I would love to read it. And then a bunch of vzyakoi information and a mess in my head.

[Orange bigg]

There can be nothing not ours. Sanctions.

[g1v2]

Пд14 made in a quantity of 16 pieces. Tested since ms21. MS21 certification with him seems to be at the end of next year, but that's how it goes. When ms21 goes into production, it will be supplied first with pratt and whitney engines, then gradually it will be delivered with 14 mph. They will be exported at the request of the customer.
Pd 8 or 7 - (as you count), they were engaged initially on the residual principle, throwing all their forces on pd14. Now the work has been accelerated. The engine is primarily made for the import-substituted superjet new. BE200 - already in the second stage. PD8 is a modification of PD14 with reduced thrust. Most of them are the same as on pd14. Pt work related. Ours there seems to be like everyone else. By time pd 8 will be in the year 23-24. We'll see how it goes.
There is another option for PD 14, which is badly needed - PD12V. This is the engine for the mi26 helicopter. So far, those piece turntables that were built were with Ukrainian engines. But there is still a long time. For the time being, the mi26 will be produced with Ukrainian engines from the warehouse.
PD35 of them all is a new engine, not a modification of PD14. Development is underway, but until the more priority projects are dealt with, it is unlikely to accelerate. The last thing I remember was that new blades were developed for him. In principle, its main consumer is a joint wide-body aircraft with the Chinese. But apparently the bulk of these aircraft will be with engines from GE. When we make an option for ourselves, we will remotorize. But all this will not be very soon, PD 35 is not a priority yet. Moreover, there is still friction with the Chinese. They need technology from us, we need from them access to their market and, to a lesser extent, coverage of development costs. Both sides try to give less and receive more.

[Zaurbek]

On PD35, the main difference is the composite fan blades ... due to their size and weight.

[U-58]

What does Saturn have to do with it?
Is the complex of the "younger brother" in relation to the Perm Aviadvigatel still not obsolete?
All the time I want to cling to the glory of the Perm engine builders.
Moreover, there is an administrative resource for this ..

[Orange bigg]

PD-8 is made by enterprises that are part of the UEC, including Rybinsk Saturn and Perm Aviadvigatel.

RYBINSK, November 30. / TASS /. The first tests of the gas generator demonstrator for the new PD-8 medium-class engine are planned for March 2021. The managing director of UEC-Saturn (part of the United Engine Corporation of the Rostec State Corporation) Viktor Polyakov told TASS about this.

"We are carrying out development work on a promising engine, but we are doing this in cooperation with UEC enterprises. We plan to assemble a demonstrator of the gas generator and conduct the first tests in March 2021," he said.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10125887

[Svetlana]

Explain to the old man what a demonstrator is. I understand the model, I understand the prototype, the demonstrator does not.
Or is it some kind of experimental sample?
Why is the demonstrator tested and not the gasifier itself? What is the meaning of this action?

[Guru]

Svetlan (Sergey)
A demonstrator is a bench unit where the declared (calculated) characteristics are checked.

[Svetlana]

Well thank you

[Errr]

The article is, apparently, about a technology demonstrator.

A technology demonstrator is a physical or virtual model that is used to evaluate the technical or manufacturing feasibility, as well as the feasibility and usefulness of the operational application of a particular technology, process, concept of a product under development or an end system. The technology demonstrator reflects the external form, internal connections, is made in the appropriate scale and contains the main functional elements of the demonstrated technology.
In fact, a technology demonstrator is the key result of developments carried out with the aim of creating a scientific and technical reserve (hereinafter - NTZ). Thus, solutions that are ready for implementation are transferred to the industry.

More details on the creation of a demonstrator of aircraft technology can be found at http://trudymai.ru/upload/iblock/6fa/Sypalo_Medvedskiy_Babichev_Kazarinov_Kan_rus.pdf

[U-58]

The demonstrator demonstrates the parameters. Well, technology .... along the way))))

[Nazar]

As they say - God forbid - maybe the truth at least this time will do everything in the announced time frame, rightly he said "we are not starting from scratch."
And from PD I would like to see the serial production of PD14, albeit in a small batch, but precisely in a series and not individual samples, as is done now.

[Zaurbek]

the development is based on the technical solutions implemented in the PD-14. The engine is being created to replace the French SaM146.


As a result, will it be "mini" PD-14 or SaM146 - localized with the domestic hot part?

[Stas157]

Quote: Zaurbek

As a result, will it be "mini" PD-14 or SaM146 - localized with the domestic hot part?

"Mini" PD-14. CaM146 is already an outdated generation. But I would like the new engine to have a higher by-pass ratio and already have composite blades.

[Zaurbek]

Above is a fan with a large radius .... it will not fit on a WLS wing.

[Guru]

The tests of the gas generator demonstrator for the new PD-8 mid-class engine are scheduled for early spring 2021.

The PD-8 type certificate should be received in 2023.

This is a realistic time frame, otherwise it was developed for six years for diesel-gas turbine units for frigates of project 22350. The members of the forum here, foaming at the mouth, said that it was sooooo fast, minusers damn it.

[Fungus]

We are slowly reviving engine building

[Brother]

Funny ... hmm ... "slowly" it will be yesterday!
How the "damned, backward, totalitarian" Soviets did with a reserve for "today" ... the current AVIA flies on the Soviet reserve!
hmm ... let's die slowly!

[Fungus]

And many countries in the world can make engines for aircraft, tell me boy?

[Brother]

"boy" - Russia can !? ... hmm .. to give birth to 20 years. How much NEW! born in 30 years?
NOT converted from SSSR?
This is ... the USSR simply - MOG and DID
Hmm ... and the current menagers vasherashi can only saw the balos (a good example, the cosmodrome ... "VOSTOCHNY" was built, they must hand over, they did not surrender a little sat down ... we are building again ...
After the USSR, almost 30 years ... over the years, they "degenerated" and only COULD have rolled out, not finished! the only TU-160 ...
Soviet there are 40 of them! a year 40 years ago on those ancient technologies - THEY! COULD.
the current ones are impotent.

[dimasik-nl]

PD14 has problems, 95% is Russian, and 5% is imported, which includes the supply of bearings from Sweden, and they seem to be supplied. There is no production of such bearings in Russia

[Fungus]

There are no problems there.

[dimasik-nl]

Somewhere else on the forums I read that both the hydraulic pump and the electric generator on the PD14 are also imported, from France.

[U-58]

After the collapse of 95% of bearing factories and the most severe "fall", metallurgy with bearings, we are in direct trouble, both in aviation and in astronautics.
Believe it or not, they order and make almost 5-7 pieces.
And the price from them - you can buy an elephant. For meat))))

[K-36]

U-58 " with bearings we have direct trouble, in aviation, in astronautics".

But I've been wondering for a long time: is it too much for the 3-D technologies to produce bearings that are promoted in "Made with us"? After all, what is easier, it would seem. Ideal (in size and chemical composition) balls / needles, outer and inner shell. Take it and assemble it into a finished bearing ... Or is it too tough for a 3-D bearing?

[U-58]

Do we have money for testing such bearings?
It is necessary to drive about 10 aircraft engines on the stand to exhaustion in order to confirm their reliability.
How many rocket engines need to be burned to prove reliability? Good or bad, but the Soviet government and the power of the CPSU found funds for this. Who will find them now?

[faiver]

Let's hope that everything goes without shifts to the right ...

[Orange bigg]

We will, but there is a lot of work.

The goal of R&D is to implement a project to replace imported components in systems and materials in the units of the MC-21 aircraft with domestic counterparts in the period from 2019 to 2024, the document says.

The cost of work under the contract will amount to 12 billion 76 million 300 thousand rubles, including 8 billion 463 million rubles in 2020.

As noted in the procurement documentation, the contractor must develop design documentation for the airframe units of the aircraft, as well as issue design documentation for the installation of Russian components and assemblies of aircraft systems. In addition, the contract provides for the preparation of a bench base for testing units and systems and the manufacture of prototypes and their bench tests. A prototype of the MS-21 aircraft No. 0012 with the main propulsion unit PD-14 will be modified to ensure the development of domestic components and systems. The work should be completed by conducting ground and flight certification tests of a prototype aircraft.

Among the key changes in the aircraft design is the use of domestic composite materials, including UMT 49S, UMT 42S and UMT 290 carbon fibers based on the domestic PAN precursor produced by UMATEX (part of the Rosatom corporation). In addition, it is planned to use binder tape ACM BE-C180UD manufactured by Prepreg-SCM, a portfolio company of RUSNANO, and Robolen 200 tape manufactured by UNIHIMTEK. Domestic materials will be used in the construction of wing consoles, elevators and rudders, aircraft mechanization units.

The agreement also contains a list of elements and aggregates of systems subject to import substitution, including 54 items.

https://www.aviaport.ru/news/2020/05/06/637371.html

[comradChe]

We haven’t figured out the PD-14 until the end, but are they already making crafts on the PD-8 that has already been developed? Wonderful. On the other hand, “the main thing is not the result, but the participation”.

[Orange bigg]

How did you not figure it out with PD-14? The first serial PD-14s were installed on the MS-21-310.

[comradChe]

Do not count your chickens before they are hatched.

[Orange bigg]

Why did you say this? Do you not like what we are doing PD-14? What are the benefits for you personally? Anti-fan PD-14.

[U-58]

Comrade is not in the subject. The engine is "dealt with" throughout its life cycle.
So the "old" PS-90 is still in a state of "trial", which served him and the entire aviation enormously.

[Zaurbek]

By the way, they put it on a flying one, in place of American motors

[Orange bigg]

Well, the first flight of MS-21-310 with PD-14 is expected only in December 2020.

[Zaurbek]

I mean, there are no new boards yet ... Apparently, they are mastering composites for the wing, domestic.

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Zaurbek

I mean, there are no new boards yet ... Apparently, they are mastering composites for the wing, domestic.

We have already mastered composites. Read the article at the link below.

UAC had a serious technological backlog, which made it possible to quickly establish the supply of domestic carbon fiber for assembling the wings of the MS-21. The liner manufacturer, Irkut corporation (part of the UAC), has been developing composite materials - imported analogues for five years.

The liner was designed as the first aircraft of its class, the wing of which is completely made of carbon fiber. This made the liner not only lighter, but also more economical and safer. Refusal to use composite materials deprived the MS-21 project of its uniqueness and, accordingly, meaning.

https://nplus1.ru/material/2020/10/12/composite-everything

[Zaurbek]

There is no new plane with these wings yet. And what is, is collected from the reserve. But we are waiting.

[lopuhan2006]

The main advantage of the new engine is the possibility of purchasing the Superjet and the Be-200 for our military-industrial complex. Here there is a possibility and options for PLO and AWACS and electronic warfare. We are waiting for news about new modifications of these aircraft in 1-2 years.

[senima56]

"The PD-8 type certificate should be received in 2023." - "Are they waiting for the promised three years?" And then, as usual, "time adjustments" will begin for another couple of years ?! But they themselves say "... we are not starting from scratch. We already have a certified PD-14 engine ..."