Military Review

First world empire clothing

284
First world empire clothing
Persepolis. Bas-relief depicting the "Immortals" - the bodyguards of the Persian kings. (Photo Aneta Ribarska)


“In the first year of Cyrus, king of Persia, in fulfillment of the word of the Lord from the mouth of Jeremiah, the Lord aroused the spirit of Cyrus, king of Persia, and he commanded to declare throughout his kingdom, verbally and in writing: thus says Cyrus, king of Persia: all the kingdoms of the earth he gave me The Lord God is heavenly, and He commanded me to build Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judea "
(First Book of Ezra, 1: 1, 1: 2)

Culture of clothes. Among thematic cycles of VO история clothing is quite popular, especially among our lovely women, who are not so many on the site, but who, nevertheless, are there and, it happens, remind me to continue writing articles on this topic. Well - why not, especially since any clothing in a certain sense is always in one way or another associated with military uniform, and military uniform is, of course, a topic for the military. Today we will get acquainted with the mods of the ancient Persian empire - almost the first empire on the territory of Eurasia, created by Tsar Cyrus, who received the honorary nickname of the Great for this.

The first empire, the first "multicultural melting pot"


It was the greatest kingdom that Western Asia has ever known, and spread over the entire territory of former Assyria, the lands of Asia Minor, Egypt, southern Central Asia, as well as the territories of modern Pakistan, Afghanistan and northern India. It is clear that the unification of such a huge number of peoples in its mass could not but lead to an intensive cultural exchange and interpenetration of different cultures, including such an area as the culture of clothing. Although the actual Persian clothing culture was formed in the area of ​​Mesopotamia. Herodotus also testifies to the fact of the multiculturalism of the Persian civilization, who wrote that no nation was so susceptible to the influence of other people's mores and customs as the Persians. Moreover, the Persian state has absorbed the cultures of very ancient countries, which have been formed over many millennia. Therefore, it is not surprising that the clothes of the Persians intertwined in the most bizarre way the clothes of the Babylonians, Assyrians, Phrygians, Lydians, Scythians, Sarmatians and even Indians.


The Persians loved gold jewelry. For example, there are gold plaques that they sewed on clothes. VI-V centuries. BC. The era of the Achaemenids. (0.1 x 4.2 cm). (Brooklyn Museum)

Silk clothes as an indicator of social status


We know about the ancient Persian costume thanks to the monuments of Pasargadae, the first capital of the Achaemenid empire, which have survived to our time, and Persepolis, the later capital of the Persian state, founded in 521 BC. King Darius I. It consisted primarily of long wide trousers, soft shoes with leather ties and a caftan with an oblique collar. The Babylonians borrow a long, spacious shirt with wide sleeves, belted at the waist, but widening downward. Under Cyrus, at court, the fashion for Median clothing, primarily made of silk, spread. Silk is so prized that clothing made from it is rewarded for service, while commoners are prohibited from wearing it. However, their clothes are also improving: for example, leather clothes, traditional for the common people, are replaced by woolen ones, and tight-fitting leather pants (the Persians called them anaxarids, and they were originally sewn with fur inside) are replaced by woolen trousers.


Persians in wide (left) and narrow (right) pants and with hoods on their head. The dagger on the thigh of the Persian on the right has a "winged scabbard" characteristic of the Scythian culture, supported in the required position by two straps. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

The Tsar's caftan was trimmed in front in full length with a wide white stripe, which was a symbol of royal power, the bottom of the caftan was decorated with a precious border. The golden decoration of the royal costume contained images of birds - symbols of the highest deity of Ormuzd - hawks and falcons. Precious bracelets and necklaces complemented the luxurious royal look.

The outer clothing of the Persian nobility was made of thin silk or woolen fabrics, mainly of dark red color, and consisted of a long-length caftan, pants and a cape. The sleeves of the caftan were so wide that they showed off their contrasting color lining. A long silk undershirt with a beautiful finish was always worn under the caftan.


Persian decoration. Gold Plaque with Horned Griffons (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

But it was simply impossible to portray women!


On ancient Persian bas-reliefs, there are no images of women, since there was a strict ban on their appearance outside the house, as well as on the image of female figures. Therefore, how Persian women's clothing looked like, we can only judge by analogy with a men's suit. She also presumably wore features of Median and earlier Assyrian clothing. That is, the underwear was a shirt with long and narrow sleeves, which were trimmed with a border. The outer garment was a man's caftan. Most likely, veils and capes, traditional in the East, embroidered with patterns were widespread. It was known about the wives of the kings that they wore rich purple robes, all embroidered with gold.

Headdresses were felt hats in the form of a cap, and often with headphones and a back piece. Nobles used headbands, but only the king could wear a tiara - a headdress in the form of a cylinder, expanding upward and decorated with gold and precious stones. By the way, this is exactly the kind of dress that Shah Kavus wears on his head in the film "The Tale of Rustam" (1971), although there they cost only gold. Moreover, it is interesting that the Persian kings borrowed the tiara from the Assyrians, and their own headdress was a tiara on the contrary - in the form of a truncated cone with a golden symbol of the sun in front. Another dress - kidaris, is interesting in that it had the shape of a common people's cap, but was entwined either with a red-white or white-blue ribbon, which were symbols of royal power.


Battle of Alexander the Great with the Persian king Darius III. Pompeian fresco. It is interesting that the head of Darius, standing on a chariot, is wrapped in some kind of burnous, but under it there is clearly a conical tiara. (Naples Archaeological Museum)

No beard - no man!


The beard played a special role in the appearance of the Persian man. The king was simply obliged to have a long beard, decorated with curls, and his courtiers - beards not so significant, which also had to be carefully trimmed and curled. Those who were deprived of this decoration by nature, wore false beards. A Persian king without a beard, bald, and even with a ring in his nose, as I happened to see in the video of some "historical film" - the same nonsense as a primitive man wearing a baseball cap and jeans!

It should be noted that during the Sassanid era (224-651 AD), the Persian costume remained practically unchanged, but became extremely rich and vibrant. The patterns on clothes at this time become extremely diverse, depict flowers, animals, and all this is intertwined with each other in a completely fantastic way. Gold-woven brocade is widely used, clothes are trimmed with pearls, since the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea, where it was then mined, are very close.


Greek crater (bowl for mixing wine and water), approx. 450 BC e. Depicts the Amazonomachy (battle between Greeks and Amazons). The ancient Greeks almost never depicted modern or historical events in art. And although they understood the scale of their victory in the Greco-Persian wars, nevertheless, their artists did not seek to depict their events directly. Instead, they painted their vessels with images of the great mythological battles between Greeks and Eastern peoples, especially the Amazons. The Amazons were a mythical race of female warriors whose homeland lay far to the east and north. However, they portrayed the same Amazons, dressed exactly like the Persians. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

The main feature is armor made of metal scales ...


As for the military clothing of the Persians, it is known both from the wall bas-reliefs and from the images on Greek ceramic dishes. The king's bodyguards are the so-called "immortals", because there were always ten thousand of them, they wear tiaras similar to the king's, and long-length caftans, and they are armed with spears and bows with arrows, which they carry in closed quivers.


Persian heavily armed horseman in scaled armor IV century. BC e. Figure: from the book: V. Vuksic, Z. Grbasic. Cavalry. The history of fighting elite 650BC - AD1914. L .: Cassell, 1994. P.43

All ancient authors unanimously claim that the Persians were strong in their cavalry, which was both light - horse arrows from a bow, and heavy, armed with long spears. Heavily armed riders had shells made of metal plates, including over the trousers, or their horses were covered with the same shells, and their head was protected by metal foreheads. Solid forged armor like the Greek was not used. On the other hand, armor made of copper, bronze and iron scales sewn onto a leather base was very widely used - a type of armor that is characteristic, first of all, for equestrian archers! The swords were straight but short. They were worn either tucked into a belt or in a sheath on the thigh, secured with straps. Shields - woven from twigs and reinforced with leather. Helmets, most often leather, or of intersecting metal stripes, did not cover the face, since the archer needed a good view. In general, the equipment of the Persian warriors was thoughtful and convenient, but designed for ranged combat. In close combat, the same Greeks in their closed helmets, breastplates-thoraxes and with shields-hoplons had a clear advantage over them.


Persian king on the hunt. OK. 420th century AD e. The images on this plate represent the earliest known image of a well-known episode from the history of Bahram Gur or Bahram V (reigns 438-XNUMX), recorded by Firdausi in the Shahnama or Book of Kings at the beginning of the XNUMXth century AD, that is, centuries later after this plate was made. A large number of gold and silver vessels have survived from the Sassanid rule in Iran and Mesopotamia, which shows an ancient Middle Eastern tradition that spread westward during the Hellenistic and Roman periods, when vessels of precious metals became symbols of power and prestige. Presumably, these were official state products, which were presented as royal gifts to influential persons both in Sassanian Iran itself and abroad. In this case, it is also valuable in that the tsar's outfit is visible in detail on it. The dish is made of silver and gilded on the basis of mercury amalgam. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

PS To see how the Persians of the era of the Greco-Persian wars dressed, it is best to watch the movie Three Hundred Spartans (1962). Something, but the clothes of the Persians are reproduced in it extremely authentically ...
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  1. Van 16
    Van 16 29 November 2020 05: 52
    +18
    "The Persian king without a beard, bald, and even with a ring in his nose, as I happened to see in the video of some" historical film "

    Not hinting at the "300 Spartans" of the latest version? Yes, the film is really "historical".
    Thanks for the article, unexpected and interesting! Will there be a continuation?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 02
      +11
      Quote: Van 16
      "300 Spartans"

      Good morning Ivan! To him, to him. * 300 Spartans. The flourishing of the empire. *
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 29 November 2020 07: 09
        +7
        Hello, Sergey! Where did you get this face? wassat
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 10
          +8
          Greetings Konstantin! I am innocent! She is in the * film * like that! laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 29 November 2020 07: 21
            +6
            Seryozha, don't look at this kind of crap anymore, don't ruin your soul! fellow
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 29
              +7
              Quote: Sea Cat
              do not ruin your soul!

              Sorry, amigo! Here's a shot that you like better, I hope. laughing

              Eva Green from the mentioned movie.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 29 November 2020 07: 38
                +10
                I prefer girls without "locksmith tools" in their hands.
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 29 November 2020 18: 53
                  +3
                  Kostya, greetings. The address of this "baby"! I'll go and caress: she shrank like a little kitten.
                  PS. If I were Sergei, I would be careful: FIG knows where she will shoot an arrow. Painfully she looks decisive, and I'm afraid of tik ladies. Health is not superfluous
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 29 November 2020 19: 04
                    +3
                    Exactly! Not herself, but with someone's help.

                    Glory, hello! drinks
                    1. vladcub
                      vladcub 29 November 2020 19: 20
                      +4
                      Here you are right. They can turn such that .... a complete ambit. My Odnoklassnik in the 90s was engaged in European renovation, somewhere he got along with such a decisive one, he began to do repairs together. She dripped something into his glass and he was grunting from the ladder. And his "girlfriend" went home, packed her things, money, valuables and left. It's good that the owner came to check the work and called an ambulance, otherwise .. "instantly into the sea"
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 29 November 2020 19: 25
                        +3
                        Well, this is already beyond. Do you remember like Bulgakov's - "Never talk to strangers."
                2. Grim Reaper
                  Grim Reaper 29 November 2020 21: 45
                  +1
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  I prefer girls without "locksmith tools" in their hands.


                  yes you are a gourmet. ;)
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 29 November 2020 21: 57
                    +1
                    I'm just for the natural development of relationships. smile
                    1. Grim Reaper
                      Grim Reaper 29 November 2020 22: 34
                      +1
                      Alas, alas, I'm too old, very old, superstar;)
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 30 November 2020 15: 29
                        +1
                        The wisdom and experience of a man cover all the disadvantages of age, as one of my close friends said. wink
              2. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 29 November 2020 17: 37
                +3
                Hello Sergey. I also like her better: at least I won't be scared if I dream
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 29 November 2020 18: 11
                  +3
                  Quote: Astra wild2
                  I will not be scared if I dream

                  Hail Vera! What are you talking about, beautiful woman! Filmed with Tim Burton * Dark Shadows *, with Robert Rodriguez * Sin City-2 *. And of course in * Kingdom of Heaven * by Ridley Scott. It's so superficial. hi
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 29 November 2020 18: 28
                    +2
                    Greetings, Sergey! hi Eva Green - yes, Vamp woman))
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 29 November 2020 18: 50
                      +3
                      Hi Albert!
                      Charming, just charming. good
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 29 November 2020 18: 59
                        +3
                        Type - Mistress laughing
                  2. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 29 November 2020 20: 26
                    0
                    The facial features are good
      2. Van 16
        Van 16 29 November 2020 07: 10
        +7
        Good! Well, I would rather attribute it to the fantasy genre, and not to the historical cinema))
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 19
          +7
          And nevertheless. By the way, the film of 2007 was filmed in the same way. What did not go to their advantage Like, EXACTLY! Historical cinema!
          What is the difference between Hollywood films shot before. For example, the same * Cleopatra *.
          1. depressant
            depressant 29 November 2020 07: 49
            +12
            According to eyewitnesses, Cleopatra just did not differ in beauty. But charisma ... The status of the ruler of Egypt gave an unprecedented self-confidence, and even the presence of intelligence, knowledge of languages ​​and Greek blood, equivalent to an increased level of vital energy, Eastern cunning. This combination can make any woman beautiful in the eyes of a man.
            I once had a Greek neighbor. The whole street spun, no one could pass by - she stopped to talk, she knew everything about everyone, energy is akin to an atomic bomb. I wondered how she was not bored by this.
            Hmmm ...
            Then these Greeks left for Greece.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 59
              +8
              Quote: depressant
              According to eyewitnesses, Cleopatra just did not differ in beauty.

              Good morning Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
              Well, how can you shoot a plain woman in a Hollywood movie? In the lead role? However, the film is excellent! Both Burton and Taylor are convincing and beautiful in their roles! hi
              1. depressant
                depressant 29 November 2020 10: 05
                +2
                Good morning, Seryozha!)))
                I agree with the assessment of the film. With a discount on Taylor's nose job. If not for this circumstance, she would probably be more like Cleopatra)))
            2. BAI
              BAI 29 November 2020 15: 55
              +6
              According to eyewitnesses, Cleopatra just did not differ in beauty.

              Witness testimonies differ. But it is really difficult to call her a beauty.



              1. Statue of Queen Cleopatra. 104,7st century BC. Ancient Egypt. The Ptolemaic dynasty. Material: basalt. Height 1929 cm. Received in XNUMX. Transferred from the palace at Peterhof. Hermitage.
              2. Portraits of Cleopatara VII on various coins minted during her reign
              in Alexandria and Tripolis (Syria). XNUMXst century BC e.
              3. Sculptural portrait of Cleopatra from Berlin. 30-40 years. BC. / Marblebust of Cleopatra VII of Egypt form 30-40 BC. Altes Museum Berlin / Berliner Museumsinsel.
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 29 November 2020 20: 33
                0
                Good evening, colleague BAI. I like the sculptural portrait of Cleopatra
            3. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 29 November 2020 21: 00
              +3
              Lyudmila Yakovlevna, it seems to me that Cleopatra's main charisma was that she was a queen. Even if she doesn't have any charisma, one title will act like a magnet.
              1. depressant
                depressant 29 November 2020 21: 31
                +1
                I believe that in this case, only Egypt itself would act as a magnet)))
      3. figwam
        figwam 29 November 2020 10: 50
        +8
        Why no one pays attention to the growth of the king, he is the size of a camel, and an ordinary person is up to his waist.




        1. BAI
          BAI 29 November 2020 15: 57
          +6
          the height of the king, he is the size of a camel, and an ordinary person is up to his waist.

          To immediately see who the king is, emphasize greatness. So it was.
          1. figwam
            figwam 29 November 2020 16: 47
            +3
            Quote: BAI
            To immediately see who the king is, emphasize greatness. So it was.

            A 5th grade teacher told me the same thing.
            Judging by the lion's fur on the belly, this is a Berber lion, exterminated by a person at the moment, weight under 300 kg, the length of his body was more than 3 meters, standing on his paws under 4 meters, the height of this person is the same, and for an ordinary person such the lion cannot be defeated.

            There are many other images of no longer kings but very tall people.

            And then people climbed the trees to be at the same height as the giants
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 29 November 2020 21: 56
              +1
              Judging by the lion's fur on the belly, this is a Berber lion, exterminated by man at the moment,

              So Hercules, when he nailed the Nemean lion in order to make a cape for himself, also poached - the Nemean lion was a cave lion that did not live up to our era at all. Hercules blocked one exit for the lion, and stood up with a club at the other, and destroyed the relic seal.
              1. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
                Andrey Krasnoyarsky 30 November 2020 12: 44
                +1
                Now this Hercules would have been so fined that my mother did not grieve. And even in general, I would have received a term for killing an animal in the Red Book.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 30 November 2020 14: 16
                  0
                  Well, if the local prosecutor had been with him, nothing would have happened to him. Here, in my native Orenburg, the judge built a huge cottage in the city. Evil tongues say that "for vacation" money.
                  1. zenion
                    zenion 30 November 2020 19: 41
                    0
                    Not vacation money, but for the thirteenth salary, it was gone under the Savetsky government. He was then the senior pioneer at school. The teachers and high school students were pleased. Collected imu's thirteenth salary and a golden phalos, as a cancer man.
    2. kalibr
      29 November 2020 08: 00
      +10
      There is a cycle about clothes. There were Egyptians, Jews, Greeks, Rome, kimonos of the Japanese ... here the hands of the Persians came. I will not open who will be next.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 29 November 2020 09: 04
        +8
        Quote: kalibr
        I will not open who will be next.

        Good morning Vyacheslav Olegovich!
        Really ...? wink

        About them? wink
        1. kalibr
          29 November 2020 09: 22
          +6
          Don't even try to guess!
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 29 November 2020 09: 33
            +4
            Quote: kalibr
            Don't even try to guess!

            ++++++++++ for you! hi wink
      2. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 29 November 2020 09: 14
        +6
        Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich! hi Thanks, as always, for the interesting article and great Photos. What interested me ... We obviously do not know everything about the trade routes that existed at that time and the volume of trade between nations. Silk, which was present in the clothes of the nobility not only of the Persians, but also of the ancient Egyptians, Romans, this is how long it “traveled” from the country of the manufacturer (China) ??? Moreover, let's digress from the clothes, I read that traces of cocaine were found in the mummies of the pharaohs (coca grows only in South America), so when was America discovered? There are a lot of white spots in the history of mankind !!!
        We look forward to continuing! good
        1. kalibr
          29 November 2020 09: 23
          +9
          Quote: Hunter 2
          Silk

          Well, the silk supplier was China. Caravans went day and night ... But traces of coca ... yes, one of the archaeologists "dabbled" and spilled ...
        2. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 11: 42
          +8
          traces of cocaine found in the mummies of the pharaohs
          It is quite possible that then in those places the now extinct grew (from an excess of collectors laughing ) plants containing cocaine. The now extinct subspecies of elephants lived in North Africa, which differed from modern African elephants in tameness (because of this, the extinct sad )
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 29 November 2020 18: 38
            +2
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            traces of cocaine found in the mummies of the pharaohs
            It is quite possible that then in those places the now extinct grew (from an excess of collectors laughing ) plants containing cocaine. The now extinct subspecies of elephants lived in North Africa, which differed from modern African elephants in tameness (because of this, the extinct sad )

            Did you work a lot with your trunk, did you sleep a little? ))
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 18: 57
              +3
              Did you work a lot with your trunk, did you sleep a little?
              And incessantly argued about politics laughing
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 29 November 2020 19: 21
                +2
                In quick long phrases lol
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 19: 29
                  +2
                  And they were stirring up behind the bus station in Tel Aviv wink
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 29 November 2020 19: 31
                    +2
                    In no case lol There they will muddy you - with paracetamol and a quick one, made in Jaffa. ))
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 19: 36
                      +2
                      This place refutes all the laws of physics - even the speed is measured in grams. laughing
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 29 November 2020 19: 41
                        +2
                        Yes. And the priestesses of love strictly fulfill their purpose - only for free. You look at them - you will immediately lose heart, and without money)).
                      2. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 19: 46
                        +2
                        Yes, there the postulates of economics are thrown into the trash, and textbooks on physiology generally go to waste. laughing Specific place yes
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 29 November 2020 19: 51
                        +2
                        Very, very. The last time I drove through it was in 2016. When you turn from Staraya Tahana to Novaya, there is such an area with a lawn on your left. And there were about 300 Sudanese or Eritreans on this site, or it is not clear who. But not pale-faced. ))
                      4. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 20: 23
                        +2
                        It's like my wife and I in Copenhagen were looking for a free Christiania laughing Just following the proud son of Nubia down the street. As we approached this location, the Saracens with the janissaries were clearly seen lagging behind their own, and then we went in homing mode to the characteristic smell of smoke smile
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 29 November 2020 20: 25
                        +1
                        There will not be treated)).
                      6. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 20: 30
                        +1
                        But they are cheap yes For some reason, the residents of this quasi-state entity at the sight of us are clearly and strongly addicted to paranoia. I think this combination of my accent, landing boots and shaved head worked so hard on them. fellow
  • Bar1
    Bar1 29 November 2020 10: 37
    +4
    and how is it known that this image of Macedonian and Darius is exactly Macedonian and Darius, how and who established it?
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 06: 04
    +10
    Good morning and have a nice day everyone! smile
    Vyacheslav, thanks for the cure for boredom. good drinks
    Here are some Persians from the movie "Three Hundred Spartans" (1962), I remember running to look at the movie "Mir" in a wide format - it was impressive.



    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 15
      +5
      Not a single movie about the Spartans came across. Maybe it’s true, look into 1962.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 29 November 2020 07: 24
        +11
        Hello, Sergey! hi
        I have, in general, youthful impressions, but then in Hollywood they knew how to make films, so I think it's worth watching.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 30
          +8
          I also have the feeling that I can spend my educational program on the cinema of this time.

          I started a new "Robin Hood" here. Not enough for 10 minutes. When a hero with a bow runs like a modern special forces. And the combination of a crossbow with a machine gun.

          Was it a parody? But definitely not my genre.

          Good morning, Constantine!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 29 November 2020 07: 34
            +12
            I didn't even try - in fig. Once I saw a poster of a remake of The Magnificent Seven with a black man in the lead role, and I realized - that's it, you can't watch Hollywood anymore, it's harmful for the mental state.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 37
              +5
              Relatively recently I looked at the variants of the "Magnificent Seven". And I got to the "Seven Samurai". To be honest, I didn't watch it to the end.

              But I respect it. Maybe I'll return to the open space.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 29 November 2020 07: 47
                +8
                I meant the "XNUMX" with Yule Brynner and Steve McQueen.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 54
                  +5
                  Yes. Got it. Looked at the classic "Seven". And before that, there was also a version of Taras Bulba with him.

                  There is something to complain about. But ours, from the Far East.

                  "From ours, from the Poles, from the Slavs" (c).
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 29 November 2020 08: 34
                    +6
                    He is a German, but I have not seen "Taras", my hand does not rise, somehow I do not associate Brynner with anyone else after "Seven".

                    "Colt has a rope tied up with a trunk, and his hat was devoured by an insatiable donkey." E-e-eee ... "(c)
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 29 November 2020 08: 47
                      +8
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      From the Germans he

                      But this is a monument to Yul, and ... a family mansion in Vladivostok.
                    2. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 03
                      +4
                      Probably.
                      Pictures of the film are beautiful. But he will not transfer someone else's.
                      A duel with jumps across the canyon is beyond our comprehension.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 29 November 2020 09: 05
                        +5
                        Cowboys, damn it ... smile Where are the canyons in the Ukrainian steppes?
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 23
                        +6
                        As far as I remember, there was still a party there under the "Kalinka-Malinka".
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 29 November 2020 09: 42
                        +5
                        Yeah, under the spreading cranberries and vodka they blew from the samovar. laughing
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 48
                        +3
                        For some reason, most of the stories are based on "brand stereotypes."
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 29 November 2020 09: 52
                        +8
                        So it is, in America, for example, some Cowboys, Gangsters and Kukluksklanovtsy. request
                      6. Sergey M. Karasev
                        Sergey M. Karasev 29 November 2020 13: 14
                        +2
                        I don't remember a single movie about the Ku Klux Klan. request
                      7. Phil77
                        Phil77 29 November 2020 16: 52
                        +4
                        Quote: Sergey Mikhailovich Karasev
                        I don't remember a single movie about the Ku Klux Klan.

                        * Mississippi on fire *, 1988. It stars Gene Hackman, William Dafoe. He is certainly not really a * clan *, but very close.
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 29 November 2020 17: 43
                        +4
                        There was one more, old and black and white, there a guy joined the Clan, the whole rite is shown, and then he had problems with the nationality of his wife, as far as I remember. In general, these films are enough, I got a whole list on request.
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 29 November 2020 16: 22
                    +5
                    Other characters can be like John Nash and Hannibal Lecter.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 29 November 2020 07: 36
    +9
    Quote: Korsar4
    I started a new "Robin Hood" here. Not enough for 10 minutes. When a hero with a bow runs like a modern special forces. And the combination of a crossbow with a machine gun.

    Well, at least not an Afro-Englishman, since they watched for 10 minutes.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 39
      +6
      The face is quite normal.
      But it's better to listen to Vysotsky's song from our film again:
      "If they are prowling for your rebellious head."
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 46
        +10
        Quote: Korsar4
        If they are prowling for your unruly head. "

        Ours! Robin Hood!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 52
          +5
          “- And how much is left in this keg?
          - About half "(c).
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 29 November 2020 08: 04
            +8
            Quote: Korsar4
            “- And how much is left in this keg?
            - About half "(c).

            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 29 November 2020 08: 15
              +6
              Miracles of Saint Dunstan.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 29 November 2020 08: 26
                +8
                And in 1982 he appeared at the box office * The Ballad of the Valiant Knight Ivanhoe *. Like a continuation.
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 29 November 2020 08: 52
                +7
                I couldn't resist now. I listened to the ballads.
              3. Phil77
                Phil77 29 November 2020 08: 57
                +6
                Did you know, Sergei, that Vysotsky was tried for the role of the jester Clem / Yuri Kamenny / but ... it didn't work. hi
                Perhaps for the best?
              4. Korsar4
                Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 01
                +6
                Can.
                The first thing that I systematically listened to in my teens was Vysotsky's songs.

                What could I have read about him in the late 80s - early 90s.
              5. Phil77
                Phil77 29 November 2020 13: 54
                +4
                Quote: Phil77
                Chamber

                Oh !!! Well, I gave it! Of course, a typo. Kamorny. Yuri Kamorny.
                Sorry, sorry. hi hi hi
          2. cheap trick
            cheap trick 21 January 2021 14: 38
            0
            and the whole movie is wearing a helmet ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 29 November 2020 08: 51
      +6
      "At the same rocks, stone, found a barrel of vodka ..." (c)
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 29 November 2020 08: 55
        +4
        "I confess constantly,
        I pray for sobriety, yes, yes ”(c).
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 29 November 2020 09: 18
          +5
          "Shown not to drink to someone - maybe ...
          Another - with whom, when and how many bowls to share ...
          When the four are all met,
          Reasonable men, of course, will drink. "(C)
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 25
          +4
          And another translation option:

          “Subject to all four conditions
          All sensible people are allowed wine "(c).
        3. Catfish
          Catfish 29 November 2020 09: 43
          +4
          "The sum does not change from the change of places of the terms!" (from) drinks
        4. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 54
          +4
          "The clock struck three, baron two" (c).
        5. Catfish
          Catfish 29 November 2020 10: 19
          +5
          "Baron Pampa don Bau was cheerful, completely sober and ready to continue the fun - he just could no longer stand on his feet.
          “The sun is setting,” he announced, looking at the tapestry depicting the sunrise. - Our bed is the blanket of a war horse!
          With these words, he tore off the unfortunate tapestry from the wall, wrapped his head in it and collapsed with a crash into the corner under the lamp. "(C)
        6. depressant
          depressant 29 November 2020 10: 58
          +5
          By the way, about the culture of drinking among the Persians.
          With considerable surprise, Herodotus talks about the Persians' methods of making important decisions. They discussed important matters, drinking wine, to which they were very partial. Having sober up in the morning, they made decisions based on the conclusions made during yesterday's feast.
          And if it turned out that decisions had to be made during the day, on a sober head, then the final conclusion was postponed until the next morning - for a period of hangover after an evening drink. This did not prevent the scattered tribes from uniting into a powerful nation, which we now call the Persians, and then the Persians from creating an empire that occupied the territory of almost all of Asia.
          Such are the things)))
        7. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 11: 26
          +9
          Quote: depressant
          With considerable surprise, Herodotus talks about the Persians' methods of making important decisions. They discussed important matters, drinking wine, to which they were very partial.

          Oh well! Symposium as far as I remember the Roman word derived from the Greek. Initially it meant - "feast" !!! So someone who, but apparently in ancient Hellas did not lag behind the Persians !!! The only exception is probably Sparta, where the death penalty was assumed. Although apparently, too, at one time they took decisions from a hangover and banned from sinning for the future !!! wink
        8. depressant
          depressant 29 November 2020 11: 39
          +3
          Well, where is the sober Sparta now? And there is no that Sparta! I mean, the terrain is there, but those Spartans with their indestructible military spirit are not there.
        9. Catfish
          Catfish 29 November 2020 12: 38
          +4
          Yes ... there were times ... "Sic transit gloria mundi"
        10. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 29 November 2020 17: 10
          +2
          Konstantin, good evening. "This is how the earthly Glory passes," I know, but who said that?
        11. Catfish
          Catfish 29 November 2020 17: 30
          +2
          It was me today. wink
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 29 November 2020 11: 41
    +5
    The symposium is not only a booze, it is a drunken orgy, that is, the cultural part (the Marlezon ballet) is also present.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 16: 52
    +4
    Sergei, I did not put pressure on the sore callus of our professors. Modern symposia events are rather boring and their participants sometimes start savoring the events of the days gone from smoking rooms!
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 29 November 2020 18: 42
    +4
    Modern symposia events are rather boring

    They are boring only at a distance, but every conference is accompanied by a final banquet and a cultural program (tecnical tour). A conference at a distance is like a non-alcoholic beer. There is an even less decent definition of this.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 16: 32
    +4
    "The white tablecloth is covered with wine" (c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 18: 07
    +5
    This is not about us.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 18: 15
    +5
    "Where to get the missing ruble,
    And who will then run for vodka ”(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 18: 18
    +5
    "We took" Zhigulevsky "and" Dubnyak "
    The third invited the stoker
    Accepted, added one more time,
    Then the stoker opened our eyes ... "(c)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 18: 27
    +4
    "That's really really: everything is relative" (c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 18: 56
    +5
    Everything-everything-everything-everything ...
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 19: 19
    +3
    "Vologda - off his feet
    And - Head first ”(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 19: 30
    +2
    "And yesterday their son was in the kitchen
    Head fell at our door
    And he broke my decanter on purpose,
    I am a triple bill for my mother ... "(c)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 20: 29
    +2
    "And the counter - silk and click, - but it doesn't matter
    At the end of the journey you will have to pay off "(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 21: 12
    +2
    "Paper with signature, seal
    Throwing in a shiver in all ages -
    The result of the fight against the mice,
    Click of the cocked hammer. "(C)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 21: 46
    +3
    "Grisha, is there a stamp?" (from).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 22: 04
    +3
    "I asked the electrician Petrov,
    Why is there a wire around your neck?
    Petrov does not answer,
    Only hangs and shakes bots. "(C) request
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 22: 08
    +3
    "Well, the king ordered me to be hanged" (c).
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 19: 13
    +4
    The sun was hiding in the fog
    The reeds rustled
    Graceful as a doe
    We walked along the field of drunks .. "(c)
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 19: 28
    +4
    Great son, I see you again
    With lipstick on my face
    How much I taught you not to leave
    Pants on the couch in the hallway
    Are you 18 and she is 45? Only 32! Congratulations!
    Better listen to your father's story
    You hardly know about this
    We built BAM, Urengoy and KAMAZ
    We read Lenin and Marx
    I read "Little Earth" 8 times
    She is 9 times "Rebirth"
    And in these creations we scooped up with her
    Sources for enjoyment
    We walked along the Leninist course together
    Quoting the classics boldly
    As soon as I finished the twelfth volume
    She flew from me ...
    When you were born son
    I took Marx to the trash heap
    Remember sonny batin lesson
    Do not get involved in sex perestroika .. "(C)
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 19: 31
    +3
    Already touched right for the soul. smile drinks
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 19: 32
    +2
    The charm of samizdat drinks
  • depressant
    depressant 29 November 2020 20: 32
    +2
    And the long-silenced strings rang in the body. I don't know where they are located, but something rattled in the silence crying wassat )))
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 21: 07
    +3
    "Ringing bottles like an alarm clock
    Woke up from a dream
    My refrigerator is empty again
    And there is not a penny in your pocket. "(C) request drinks
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 29 November 2020 22: 03
    +2
    And the long-silenced strings rang in the body. I don't know where they are located, but something rattled in the silence

    good Not otherwise than pipidastra. Do not think why, these are the kind of brooms that cheerleaders wave in between sports performances. Painfully, the name is sonorous, but in fact - brushes with which dust is swept from furniture.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 16: 10
    +2
    Quote: Aviator_
    pipidastra

    Beautiful thing!

    But the title .... just a disaster! laughing
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 November 2020 18: 03
    +1
    But the title .... just a disaster!

    Nice title. Immediately old Freud comes to mind.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 30 November 2020 19: 30
    +1
    This is a competition: who is the best to put things in order at home?
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 19: 32
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    This is a competition: who is the best to put things in order at home?

    Hi Sergey! The name of the subject has attracted attention. So we are discussing, on the sly. wink
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 30 November 2020 19: 37
    +1
    But James Bond or some Jackie Chan could have been used off-label.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 19: 40
    +1
    Pompom? Pompom?
    I don't remember, perhaps. winked
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 30 November 2020 20: 06
    +1
    "That walks in someone's skin,
    He sleeps in an ashtray ”(c).
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 20: 14
    +2
    Quote: Korsar4
    He sleeps in an ashtray "(c)

    * A lark hovers in the sky,
    floods, sings.
    Ven'kin alcohol is tolerantly drunk.
    Venka doesn't lend us! *
    All the same Prusakov.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 30 November 2020 20: 19
    +1
    “Inside him - if a man,
    If not, grind ”(c).
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 20: 22
    +2
    Quote: Korsar4
    Inside him

    And finally.
    * It's not at home, on the couch.
    Here nature is the breadth of the soul!
    Graceful as a doe
    drunks sleep in a ditch. * laughing
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 30 November 2020 20: 31
    +1
    “To live in kilometers,
    And not by square meters "(c).
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 16: 26
    0
    Quote: Aviator_
    which cheerleaders wave in between sports performances. Painfully, the name is sonorous, but in fact - brushes with which dust is swept from furniture.

    Sorry, but if you mean it.

    Then these * balls * have a name-Pom-pom. Yes, they look like panicles, but from afar.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 November 2020 18: 07
    +1
    I think that "Pom-pom" was invented by the Russian speakers so that unnecessary associations do not arise.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 18: 15
    0
    Still, I insist on the name-Pom-pom. Pomp, this is specifically a furniture duster. hi
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 November 2020 18: 17
    +1
    Well, there are plenty of pom-poms, for example, the so-called 40-mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns. But "pipidastre" - it sounds proudly!
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 18: 30
    +1
    Quote: Aviator_
    pipidastr "- it sounds proudly!

    Playful. Sounds like * pipifax *! wink
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 30 November 2020 18: 58
    +1
    No, the Americans call them that.
  • depressant
    depressant 29 November 2020 20: 27
    +3
    Masterpiece!!! Bravissimo !!! wassat
    The main thing is sheer surprise. In the evening - it's nice)))
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 20: 35
    +2
    utter surprise
    So after all, everything is like in life fellow
  • Phil77
    Phil77 30 November 2020 18: 55
    +1
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    We walked along the field of drunks .. "(c)

    * Friend by friend, chain.
    Slightly noticeable path
    also doe in the forest
    mince to drink.
    Their faces were stern
    and a serious dull look.
    There is a task to hangover
    they have no way back! *
    Roman Prussakov.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 29 November 2020 20: 54
    +1
    I remember this from school. Seems to be grade 1
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 November 2020 21: 02
    +2
    I can’t say anything, I don’t remember the first grade at all. In general, I was sitting at the last row.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 29 November 2020 10: 15
    +5
    "A hundred castles will fall and a hundred shackles will fall,
    And a hundred sweats will go away from a whole pile of centuries, -
    And legends from hundreds of verses will pour
    About tournaments, sieges, about free shooters. "

    At one time, our "Robin Hood" was very impressed. First of all, probably because of the wonderful actors. And the topic is grateful. About the fact that the original film was released without songs, you probably know.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 11: 45
    +3
    at least not Afro-English
    Yes, these are trifles compared to Mannerheim-Somali afrophinous wassat
  • Phil77
    Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 31
    +7
    Quote: Korsar4
    1962 year.

    Hi Sergey, I agree with Konstantin! Historical films of that time are wonderful! Without irony. hi
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 35
      +5
      Told here: the second film that I saw in the cinema was "The Adventures of Odyssey". Still impressed.

      Hi, Seryozha.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 29 November 2020 09: 14
        +5
        Until now, the scene is farther: burning Troy, cursing Cassandra in red, and Odysseus grinning in laughter.
        This is a film with Kirk Douglas.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 26
          +4
          So many episodes in memory. But I would start with the cave of Polyphemus.
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 29 November 2020 09: 27
          +7
          Quote: Sea Cat
          This is a film with Kirk Douglas.

          And I remember * Spartacus *, with Kirk Douglas! Damn! The face is as if made of stone, courageous, smart and beautiful! The son is certainly not bad as an actor, but ... the father is still more avantage.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 29 November 2020 09: 50
            +6
            And I liked Mark Licinius Crassus brilliantly performed by Laurence Olivier in “Spartacus”.

      2. kalibr
        29 November 2020 09: 26
        +6
        Quote: Korsar4
        "The Adventures of Odyssey". Still impressed.

        And the exploits of HERCULES?
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 November 2020 09: 31
          +4
          No. Passed by me. And in general, the Trojan War and the Argonauts are somehow more vividly perceived. Although in the second case, it was not without Hercules.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 24
    +7
    Quote: Sea Cat
    from the film "Three hundred Spartans" (1962), I remember running to watch the movie "Mir" in a wide format - it was impressive.

    And I already watched this film in the early seventies. Re-screening? Probably. Our group of yard boys went to the c / t * Elbrus *.
    1. depressant
      depressant 29 November 2020 07: 58
      +3
      Seryozha, good morning! )))
      But what about Zach Snyder's film "300" with Gerard Butler? Didn't you look? ))
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 29 November 2020 08: 13
        +4
        Quote: depressant
        Didn't you look?

        Well ... not that. '62 is much stronger, and the characters are more like people than comic book characters. hi
  • Phil77
    Phil77 29 November 2020 09: 20
    +4
    Quote: Sea Cat
    1962g

    And these are the Spartans.


  • Oleg
    Oleg 29 November 2020 20: 06
    +1
    And the c / t "Mir" in what city was he?
  • Far B
    Far B 29 November 2020 06: 09
    +5
    depictions of women are absent, since there was a strict ban on their appearance outside the home, as well as on the depiction of female figures. Therefore, we can only judge how Persian women's clothing looked like by analogy with a men's suit.
    Duc, if they stayed at home all the time, then what for do they generally wear? A woman without clothes will delight the eyes, and for the wallet there is a continuous savings. Although about the gaze, I got a little excited: you never know what was there behind Gulchatay hiding under a veil. But about the wallet - it's true!
    1. depressant
      depressant 29 November 2020 06: 24
      +7
      Good morning, colleagues! )))
      Dalniy V, and you tried to do household chores without clothes - washing, washing, cooking, etc. And even without doing anything? Given the not particularly comfortable bacteriological and climatic conditions?
      1. Far B
        Far B 29 November 2020 06: 30
        +7
        I am a good dad and a bad dancer, you know what interferes with my household chores. And women, as a rule, dance well, especially in the east - I saw it myself in kin. Belly dance!
        And, then, you have assigned a lot of responsibilities to the women there. How did Gulchatay (who was still correct, not Abdullah) bent her fingers? "One wife is cooking, one is washing the floors, one is looking after the children." Middle East, however.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 29 November 2020 06: 43
          +8
          Misha, do you remember by any chance in which century AD Muslim customs came to the region called Persia, I mean polygamy and the burqa.
          1. Far B
            Far B 29 November 2020 06: 53
            +8
            Well, the turn of the 7-8 centuries, but inaccurate - I was very podshofe then, so you understand, the memories are vague ...
            In general, it seems, they have polygamy not from Islam, but from much more ancient traditions. And the burqa means that not everything that hides under it is capable of pleasing the eye, this does not directly apply to the Old Persian kingdom.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 29 November 2020 12: 21
              +10
              Mikhail, you described everything so vividly that the illustration was found right there.
          2. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 11: 53
            +7
            burqa.
            It seems that they began to wear Assyrians of noble birth, so that the commoners could not defame them with lustful glances.
            I somehow got out for a drink in East London in the morning ... Black garbage bags are left on the street by the collectors' houses, and now I am not in the best state of health walking along the well-known road, but from around the corner a garbage bag meets me coming !! I later realized that it was a native of London lol , but at first the squirrel was frightened notably sad I took soda instead of beer. yes
        2. depressant
          depressant 29 November 2020 06: 43
          +7
          Colleague, you should be joking)))
          Middle East, skin diseases ...
          1. Far B
            Far B 29 November 2020 06: 56
            +6
            skin diseases ...
            As the Armenian Radio used to say, "It's better to die as a man than ..."
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 16
      +9
      If it is cold, it will gradually begin to grow wool. Why is there a second cat at home?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 08: 09
        +9
        Quote: Korsar4
        If it is cold, it will gradually begin to grow wool. Why is there a second cat at home?

        Uh-huh. On her collar !!!


        You can conduct a scientific experiment at the bottom and turn off the gas! In 100 years we will get a furry man, or tomorrow a revolution. laughing
        And in general, pants are our everything !!!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 November 2020 08: 19
          +5
          This was convincingly proved by A.K. Tolstoy:
          "Counselor Popov had a strange dream."
          1. depressant
            depressant 29 November 2020 10: 18
            +3
            Kote Pan Kohanka, but 100 years will not be needed. Hairy ones will survive and give hairy offspring, and a hairless person will turn blue from the cold, he will not be up to reproduction and therefore will die out very quickly)))
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 11: 16
              +4
              Quote: depressant
              Kote Pan Kohanka, but 100 years will not be needed. Hairy ones will survive and give hairy offspring, and a hairless person will turn blue from the cold, he will not be up to reproduction and therefore will die out very quickly)))

              All khana came to me bald !!! good
              I'll go look for a steel helmet so that my ears don't fall off !!! soldier
              1. depressant
                depressant 29 November 2020 11: 27
                +4
                Ushanka will probably be better. Not from a cat! )))
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 29 November 2020 11: 46
                  +5
                  Ushanka will probably be better. Not from a cat! )))

                  Estessno, not from a cat. As the postman Pechkin said - "There are three people like you for a hat!"
            2. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 19: 16
              +2
              hairless man
              Will let hairy people into his fur coat and survive comfortably good
        2. BAI
          BAI 29 November 2020 16: 01
          +5
          On her collar !!!

          On insoles in boots. There will be a puss in boots.
          In 100 years we will get a furry man, or tomorrow a revolution.

          I've heard this story. The man went on a business trip abroad, not very long - for a couple of years. And he had a marble mastiff. Well, naturally, it is impossible to export it abroad, it is easier to take out a nuclear reactor there than an animal. So he asks a friend to keep the dog in his private house, no problem. The friend agreed. The owner arrives - "Where is the dog"? "And running over there in the yard." And there a Great Dane is running around, all overgrown with wool several centimeters long. The owner came to his tailbone in surprise - "What's wrong with him?" But it turns out that the friend, like the owner hooted, drove (released) the dog into the yard, fed, but did not let him into the house. In winter, the cold is not an aunt. To survive, the Great Dane instantly became covered with fur. And it didn't take 100 years
    3. Fat
      Fat 29 November 2020 12: 11
      +5
      Quote: Far In
      depictions of women are absent, since there was a strict ban on their appearance outside the home, as well as on the depiction of female figures. Therefore, we can only judge how Persian women's clothing looked like by analogy with a men's suit.
      Duc, if they stayed at home all the time, then what for do they generally wear? A woman without clothes will delight the eyes, and for the wallet there is a continuous savings. Although about the gaze, I got a little excited: you never know what was there behind Gulchatay hiding under a veil. But about the wallet - it's true!

      She appeared visible, good Ardvi-Sura,
      A beautiful young maiden, powerful and slender ...
      In a dress with sleeves, embroidered, gold ...
      And she pulled her waist so that her chest seemed
      Tall and tight.
      The good Ardvi-Sura put on the diadem,
      One hundred-star, golden, like a chariot,
      Decorated with ribbons with a beautiful headband.
      Ardvi-Sura wore a beaver cape
      Three hundred beaver skins ...
      So made to make the beholder seem
      It is plated with gold and full of silver.
      Avesta. Yasht V.30.126-129

      Silver and gilded vessel depicting Aredvi Sura Anahita. IV-VI centuries.
      1. depressant
        depressant 29 November 2020 14: 40
        +5
        In general, it is even strange to see an image of a naked woman on a Persian vessel. Maybe the censorship of that time did not work or gave relief, because Ardvisura Anahita is the goddess of water and fertility. It would be strange to see the goddess of water, wrapped in wet clothes)))
        According to Plutarch, the Persians were incredibly jealous. They were jealous of every pillar, not only of wives, but I must say that they had polygamy, but even of concubines and slaves. The entire female part of the inhabitants of the house sat at home, not daring to go out into the street. If you had to leave the house, then only in closed carriages. What it was connected with is not clear.
        And isn't this the strange custom of marrying your own sisters and nieces on occasion? Probably because you could see those even in their short childhood and make sure that they were not scary.
        1. Fat
          Fat 29 November 2020 15: 33
          +3
          It's funny that you saw Anahita naked. In my opinion it looks more like a silk embellished shirt than a tattoo))) Anahita means "spotless". Vase in the photo 4-6 century A.D. Sassanid Empire. Plutarch can no longer be a witness here.
          Under the Sassanids, such vases were usually given by the Persians to the rulers of neighboring states ...
          By the way, Alexander withdrew avesta from circulation, drowning the books in the sea. The Seleucids began to collect the Avesta from surviving fragments and oral traditions. So Yasht 5 is also not really a testimony to myself.
          1. depressant
            depressant 29 November 2020 15: 37
            +4
            Well, wet pants on her can really be seen, but wet silk on the rest of the body did not work)))
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 13
    +8
    That's right: no beard - no king.

    Surely there is research on the role of the beard in history. Here False Dmitry shaved - the stay in Moscow did not end with anything good.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 29 November 2020 07: 39
      +8
      Quote: Korsar4
      research on the role of the beard in history.

      But in the USSR, the hairy ruler replaced the bald one. laughingAnd in * post-Soviet * Russia, too.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 42
        +5
        Yes. This is an eternal periodicity.

        I looked at myself a month ago. Something is missing. But this summer you can afford to overgrow. And this year the summer has dragged on.
      2. depressant
        depressant 29 November 2020 20: 37
        0
        What if a woman? So what will it be? Hairy or bald? laughing
    2. kalibr
      29 November 2020 07: 54
      +6
      Quote: Korsar4
      Here False Dmitry shaved - the stay in Moscow did not end with anything good.

      He didn’t like the bath yet, but he loved steamed veal. This was generally a shameful thing in Russia.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 29 November 2020 07: 57
        +4
        “Otherwise we don't like it.
        And so, one night,
        We asked them pepper,
        And they drove everyone away ”(c).
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 08: 03
      +8
      Peter I - Sergei also shaved, however, like his older brother Fyodor Alekseevich.
      Nicholas II wore a "beard", and the country fell apart! I am afraid in Russia such comparisons "do not roll." So we are waiting for British scientists !!!
      All the best cheers !!!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 29 November 2020 08: 14
        +5
        He shaved his beards and taxed them.
        And the image was always created, even if they did not think about it.

        Good morning Vladislav!
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 29 November 2020 11: 53
        +4
        In the XNUMXth century, something became bad with shaving accessories - Marx, Engels, Jules Verne, Roentgen, Mendeleev, Saltykov-Shchedrin, Darwin, Maxwell ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • depressant
    depressant 29 November 2020 09: 52
    +5
    And after all, none of you, colleagues, paid attention to the red-figured Greek crater vase shown by Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    First, why did the Greeks mix wine with water? Because they brought the grapes to that degree of ripeness, when it dried up right on the vine and turned almost into raisins, that is, it gained maximum sweetness. The wine from such grapes turned out to be very strong, in fact it was port. In a hot climate on stuffy evenings, and feasts were held in the evening, almost until the morning, drinking such wine was fraught with health consequences. So they diluted it. By the way, even now the Greeks are not very inclined to be active during the day, if by activity we mean rest.

    Second, with regard to the depiction of the Amazons in Persian clothing. This is how the Greeks showed their disdain for the Persians - by dressing women in Persian men's clothes. Like, the Persians are women! It was an element of humiliation for the Persian warriors. The Greeks considered Persia an oriental despotism, and the Persians believed that they, the Persians, as a cultured nation, the beacon of freedom and reason, in the person of the Greeks, especially the Spartans, opposed proto-fascism. And since the West is opposed to Iran, the point of view of the Greeks as courageous fighters against despotism is accepted. And although the Spartans themselves were still a despotism, the director in the film "300 Spartans" took into account the demand for the generally accepted version. Therefore, King Xerxes is shown as a madman who imagines himself to be a god and, as a result, does not want to look like everyone else. And piercing among the Persians, by the way, was practiced.
    And make allowances for the fact that this movie is a comic. And, like all comics, he brings the idea to an absurd visibility, and like a blockbuster all over the world it promotes the American idea of ​​the Persians, and therefore of the current Iranians. And you know why.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 29 November 2020 10: 44
      +1
      Quote: depressant
      The wine from such grapes turned out to be very strong, in fact it was port

      port is a FORTIFIED wine i.e. in wine -6-8 degrees. add alcohol to 13 degrees. And if you add water to the wine, then you get not a drink, but slops.
      In Russia before revolutionary: vodka or moonshine was called wine - a very strong drink, and it is moonshine that can already be diluted with water.
      1. CastroRuiz
        CastroRuiz 29 November 2020 15: 54
        +3
        Portveynu primer preslovutie "3 topora". :)
      2. ANB
        ANB 29 November 2020 23: 02
        +1
        ... port is a FORTIFIED wine i.e. in wine -6-8 degrees. add alcohol up to 13 degrees

        Until 18,19.
        ... if you add water to the wine, you get not a drink, but slops.

        Right now I’m drinking diluted red. Quite tasty and not drunk. The Greeks drank diluted wine as a drink, they did not have compote and tea.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 30 November 2020 07: 07
          +2
          Quote: ANB
          Right now I'm drinking diluted red. Quite tasty and not drunk.

          so are you Greek?
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 29 November 2020 11: 57
      +8
      I disagree about ancient Greek grape wine. As you know, diluted dry wine quenches thirst well, and diluted port is still a swill. Again, you have to get to the technology of fortified wines, it is not a fact that the ancient Greeks did it, and young dry wine is made much easier.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 29 November 2020 12: 55
        +1
        diluting wine with water is only the Greeks who did this, and the ancients, no one else diluted wine with water.
    3. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 11: 58
      +6
      The wine from such grapes turned out to be very strong
      Reaching a strength of about 14%, the wine turns sour - the yeast can no longer live with such a strength and is already processing alcohol into acetic acid. Therefore, for those who love stronger, an apparatus to help drinks
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 29 November 2020 13: 59
        +4
        The device was invented by alchemists a little later than the ancient Greeks. However, there is an opinion that even during the digging of the Black Sea, the foremost workers were awarded a quarter of a vodka and a rolling zhovtno-blakytny shovel.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 29 November 2020 14: 08
          +5
          And klaptik fat-only to the management belay ?
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 29 November 2020 15: 31
            +2
            And klaptik fat-only to the belay management?

            Well, where is there without a leading, guiding and the only true one?
    4. Engineer
      Engineer 29 November 2020 13: 44
      +6
      First, why did the Greeks mix wine with water?

      Because drunkenness was considered a grave vice peculiar to barbarians, the same Thracians, but not decent to a free Hellen.
      Because they brought the grapes to that degree of ripeness, when it dried up right on the vine and turned almost into raisins, that is, it gained maximum sweetness

      Sweet wines made from dried grapes are not necessarily strong. And there is no evidence that the Greeks were dominated by such
      This is how the Greeks showed their disdain for the Persians - by dressing women in Persian men's clothes. Like, the Persians are women!

      It's simple, the master did not see the Amazons and dressed them in the clothes of male barbarians familiar to him. Comparison with the Amazons would rather be a compliment, since they fought with the epic ancestors of the Greeks. But as already written, the artist just got out of the situation. According to the canon, women must be dressed. Women from barbarian lands who imitate male culture are dressed as barbarian men.
      The Persians believed that they, the Persians, as a cultured nation, the beacon of freedom and reason, in the person of the Greeks, especially the Spartans, opposed proto-fascism.

      Write too much homosexuality. The problem is that the Persian point of view is not known to us at all.
      1. depressant
        depressant 29 November 2020 15: 20
        +2
        The topic of such a relationship is unpleasant, and it can not be developed. But since we touched on ... Since the Persians allowed incest - they married their own sisters, cousins, nieces, I would not be surprised at the presence of homosexuality as a form of relationship between an adult and a teenager. This always happens when women are not available. Or the climate allows it. And if in the ancient world in the Middle East and in the Mediterranean basin it is a ubiquitous custom since ancient times, then I have no doubt about the presence of a phenomenon in Persian society, where a woman was taken care of as a thing, and she was in short supply.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 29 November 2020 15: 37
          +3
          Oh,
          In fact, it was about the Greeks, since we were talking about proto-fascism)))
          And then gays, people mingled in heaps
          With incest among the Persians, nothing is known outside the upper class.
          You can learn about the attitude to homosexuality among the Persians from the "Avesta"
          O Creator of the material world, O Holy One!
          If a person commits the sin of sodomy willingly.
          What is the punishment that he must bear?
          What is the atonement for him?
          How to get rid of it? "
          Ahura Mazda answered:
          “There is no punishment that can be borne,
          there is nothing that can atone for this crime.
          there is nothing to cleanse of it;
          for it is a sin for which there is no forgiveness forever and ever. "


          The Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus, meeting with the Persians of the Sassanian era, who revived Zoroastrianism, confirms. "Sodomy is not familiar to Persians"
          1. depressant
            depressant 29 November 2020 16: 29
            +3
            I will not argue))
            Moreover, the ancient Persians are usually extolled. Their whole life was permeated with poetry, even their attitude to food and the process of eating. Such were the romantic people. I admit it. Due to the fact that she did not live then. But there lived those who noted this, and the witnesses are such that they can be trusted. With the amendment "according to the Persians"))
            The strict upbringing of boys is noted. Up to 5 years - in the female half, the father did not see the child, so as not to become attached, because the infant mortality rate was high. And then - you are already a warrior and therefore you must learn to shoot from a bow so that the flying arrow looks like your finger to you, pointing to the heart of the enemy. Taking into account the flight trajectory of the arrow, which deviates from the aiming point during flight, not only vertically, but also in a top view, that is, in a horizontal plane, this is very difficult. And he must ride a horse so that he looks like a Greek centaur, that is, as a whole with her. And he remembered that in the future he should produce many children, with all his might, as much as possible - for the glory and in the name of strengthening the empire.
            Yes, I like this image of the ancient Persians more - poets and warriors))))
          2. Liam
            Liam 29 November 2020 19: 52
            -2
            Quote: Engineer
            Sodomy is not familiar to Persians "

            Come on ... Plato and Plutarch say something else-Andrew Davison, Border Thinking on the Edges of the West: Crossing Over the Hellespont
            Sesto Empirico too-David F. Greenberg, The Construction of Homosexuality
            And the adoption of Islam, these customs did not particularly affect-Importance of Vendidad in the Zarathushti Religion: by Ervad Behramshah Hormusji Bharda
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 29 November 2020 20: 42
              +1
              There is also such a point of view.
              The testimony of Marcellinus refers to the New Persian state. And not to the era of classical Greece. I personally consider his testimony to be valuable because he came into contact with the middle stratum - the service landowners. And not with a depraved and jaded top.
              Islam has practically no effect on pederasty, if only in the first couple of generations. Then everything blossomed in lush color. Islam is hypocritical in this regard, like all fundamentalist religions.
              1. Liam
                Liam 29 November 2020 20: 56
                -2
                Quote: Engineer
                The testimony of Marcellinus

                Marcellinus hardly climbed into the bed of the Persians to see what and with whom they were doing there. He could only find out if it was condemned or not.
                No religion can deceive nature and biology. This phenomenon is a natural phenomenon and not a social one, observed in both humans and animals,% is quite stable among all peoples in all eras. Only the attitude to the phenomenon in different epochs among different peoples changes.
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 29 November 2020 21: 01
                  +1
                  Plutarch and Herodotus did not drop in either. There they were more negatively disposed towards the Persians and they would not want them to look more worthy than the Greeks.
                  This phenomenon is a natural phenomenon and not a social one, observed in both humans and animals,% is quite stable among all peoples in all eras.

                  Both biological and social.
                  Ancient Greece and Medieval Japan are classic examples of a predominantly social context in homosexuality.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 29 November 2020 21: 04
                    -3
                    Quote: Engineer
                    Plutarch and Herodotus also did not drop in

                    But their claims are supported by science, which says that they could not be
                    1. Engineer
                      Engineer 29 November 2020 21: 08
                      +2
                      If society is categorically hostile to this topic up to executions, then the social aspect simply does not arise - it is not encouraged, and the biological one is partially realized - the majority lives with suppressed homosexuality. 100% purity, of course, is impossible anywhere else. It would never occur to me to say that
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 29 November 2020 21: 13
                        -2
                        Quote: Engineer
                        If society is categorically hostile to this topic, up to executions

                        In words, he may be hostile, in reality, in all epochs, with all religions, he "flourished"
                        Quote: Engineer
                        100% pure

                        Dangerous thesis)
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 29 November 2020 21: 16
                        +1
                        I'm talking about society, not about the individual. laughing
                        PS Well, how flourished. In the Roman legions of the Republic era, they were stoned by their tentmates for this. Therefore, such people sat on the code.
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 29 November 2020 21: 30
                        -2
                        Quote: Engineer
                        In the Roman legions

                        It is a common mistake to judge other eras using our mentality and our worldview. In fact, everything is more complicated naturally. They thought a little differently. Suffice it to say that the Romans did not have a word for gay. Just as there was no word for hetero). They did not share people into these familiar categories.

                        https://www.altaterradilavoro.com/la-sessualita-nellantica-roma/#:~:text=Nelle%20legioni%2C%20l'atto%20di,%2C%20(bastonatura%20a%20morte).
                      4. Engineer
                        Engineer 29 November 2020 21: 34
                        +1
                        Who can argue? And also the Roman era is centuries during which everything changed.
                        But the approach in the era of Polybius speaks for itself exhaustively.
                      5. Liam
                        Liam 29 November 2020 21: 46
                        -2
                        )))

                        The source that I threw off to you describes a lot of cases in the legions, so Polybius could write anything, but the phenomenon was widespread there as well.
                        The watershed for the Romans was not between a man vs a man or a man vs a woman, but between a free man vs a slave and an asset or liability.
                        With slaves, a Roman could do anything at all, as he liked and with anyone, and this was not considered a deviation in any case. The same actions between free people were condemned.
                        Well, about the asset / liability, the Romans were guided by the same concepts as in the Zon subculture. One role is shameful and unacceptable, the other strengthens authority. Although, technically, both commit homoact)
            2. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 29 November 2020 21: 38
              +2
              Quote: Liam
              their claims are supported by science

              Oh recourse senor raider pilot and your statements are confirmed by you or lie easily, you get off the pedestal then
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              25.11.2020
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Did you find the carcass? Or, as always, "merge"?
              You either present or do as it should
    5. depressant
      depressant 29 November 2020 20: 43
      +1
      That's right, a colleague of Liam, agreed that boys can be. I didn’t begin to say - all of a sudden we have someone here who is religiously preoccupied, and we here lit Charlie Hebdo)))
  • Bar1
    Bar1 29 November 2020 16: 45
    +5
    Quote: depressant
    I would not be surprised at the presence of homosexuality as a form of relationship between an adult and a teenager. T

    you guessed it, but you did not know Asian customs. There was earlier in Asia such a thing as bacha is a boy,
    which pleased wealthy customers, he sang, danced and something else. After the revolution, the Soviet government fought against Bachism and, of course, won. And this was due to the fact that women in Muslim countries were unavailable, although this is certainly a perversion.
    - "... when Bacha sings songs to them"
    Mister Creed.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 17: 27
    +5
    Quote: Engineer
    Write too much homosexuality.

    Greetings! And not only, after the second Punic War, the so-called "Greek wahanalia" began to be practiced in Rome! Realizing that this is a "gift" the Senate of Rome began a real war with the Greek remnant of "worship of pagan gods" !!! So homosexuality in ancient Hellas is still a flower! Considering that in each policy, legal customs developed in their own way. Corinthian - leggings and Thessalian - hoplites, in fact, this is the tip of the iceberg we know.

    First, why did the Greeks mix wine with water?


    Because drunkenness was considered a grave vice peculiar to barbarians, the same Thracians, but not decent to a free Hellen.

    There are a few more pitfalls here! There are two ways to strengthen wine. The first distillation, but before the moonshine still a few centuries. The second is freezing, but the Mediterranean, this is not Scandinavia! And the technology of wine production was far from perfect, like wild grapes. In fact, after fermentation, the Greeks received a viscous concentrate, which had to be diluted with water.


    It's simple, the master did not see the Amazons and dressed them in the clothes of male barbarians familiar to him.


    He still did not know how to read Greek, otherwise the girl would have had a burnt chest !!!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 29 November 2020 10: 47
    +6
    Battle of Alexander the Great with the Persian king Darius III. Pompeian fresco. It is interesting that the head of Darius, standing on a chariot, is wrapped in some kind of burnous, but under it there is clearly a conical tiara.

    Why would he wrap his head in clothes, Vyacheslav Olegovich? Burnus is a hooded garment for people in the Middle East and North Africa.
    Headdresses were felt hats in the form of a cap, and often with headphones and a back piece. Nobles used headbands, but only the king could wear a tiara - a headdress in the form of a cylinder, expanding upward and decorated with gold and precious stones. By the way, this is exactly the kind of dress that Shah Kavus wears on his head in the film "The Tale of Rustam" (1971), although there they cost only gold. Moreover, it is interesting that the Persian kings borrowed the tiara from the Assyrians, and their own headdress was a tiara on the contrary - in the form of a truncated cone with a golden symbol of the sun in front. Another dress - kidaris, is interesting in that it had the shape of a common people's cap, but was entwined either with a red-white or white-blue ribbon, which were symbols of royal power.
    The Persian tiara and the kidaris are one and the same headdress. Herodotus is considered the only ancient author who "owned the question" among historians.
    "The following peoples took part in the campaign: first of all, the Persians, who were dressed and armed like this. On their heads they had the so-called tiaras (soft [felt] hats)."
    The specific type - the straight tiara - is often referred to as a special symbol of the great king; no one else was allowed to wear it. Aristophanes mentions it under the name "direct kirbasia".
    The dispute about whether the Kirbasia is identical to the tiara was positively resolved by historians back in the nineteenth century.
    Therefore, on the head of Darius III the tiara "straight" "royal", and the Persian from the Sidonian sarcophagus - the usual, "common people".

    Sources.
    CLOTHING. In the Median and Achaemenid periods (Encyclopædia Iranica).
    William Smith. Dictionary of Greek and Roman biography and mythology
    Herodotus. HISTORY. BOOK VII. Polyhymnia.
  • Alex013
    Alex013 29 November 2020 12: 19
    +5
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, many thanks for the article! At least something without propaganda ... Will be interesting material about the clothing of the early Slavs, Khazars, Bulgars?
    1. kalibr
      29 November 2020 16: 34
      +3
      Quote: Alex013
      Will you be interested in the material about the clothes of the early Slavs, Khazars, Bulgars?

      The idea should be, why are they worse than the Persians and Jews?
      1. Alex013
        Alex013 30 November 2020 00: 32
        0
        The Bulgars, according to Ibn Fadlan, are definitely not worse ... For the rest, we are waiting for the material)
  • Termit1309
    Termit1309 29 November 2020 13: 20
    +2
    Solid forged armor like the Greek was not used.
    Is it possible, well, at least with one eye to look at this one-piece forged branded Greek lat? Precisely for solid forged?
    1. kalibr
      29 November 2020 16: 33
      +3
      Google to help you - dial thorax.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 29 November 2020 13: 33
    +8
    Quote: Bar1
    port is a FORTIFIED wine i.e. in wine -6-8 degrees. add alcohol to 13 degrees. And if you add water to the wine, then you get not a drink, but slops.
    In Russia before revolutionary: vodka or moonshine was called wine - a very strong drink, and it is moonshine that can already be diluted with water.

    With aplomb, but, as always, utterly ignorant.
    The finished port has a strength of 17-23%. Greek wines could reach 15-16% ABV. This is what Lyudmila Yakovlevna Kuznetsova had in mind, giving an example.
    The dilution of wine with water in the wine-growing countries of the Old World is still practiced today. You just need to be able to do it right.
    Diluted wine will quench your thirst better. That is, if you do not have a goal of exclusively getting drunk, you just want to cool yourself with good wine on a hot summer evening, then diluted wine will cope with this task as well as possible.
    The proportions should be as follows: 1 third of white wine and 3-4 parts of water.
    If you are a lover of sweet wines and come across not just sweet, but sugary wine, then water can fix it. The wine will become much easier to drink, and overall the drink will be pleasant.
    When diluting wine with water, the following rules must be observed.
    There should be more water than wine.
    Water is added to wine, not wine to water.
    Dilute wine only with clean, distilled water suitable for drinking.
    According to tradition, red wines are diluted with hot water and whites with cold water.
    Do not dilute fortified wines with water - they lose their taste.
    The Greeks diluted wine with water not only out of a desire to reduce its intoxicating properties, but also because some Greek wines were very sweet, aromatic and thick, they were difficult to drink in their pure form.
    As for what was called bread wine in Russia, it is best to read the book "History of Russian Strong Drinks".
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 29 November 2020 13: 54
      -4
      Quote: Undecim
      The finished port has a strength of 17-23%. Greek wines could reach 15-16% ABV.

      oh, about wine, you are an expert here, it's just guilt, everything is clear according to Wikipedia, it's a pity that you can't tell it from history.
      Quote: Undecim
      Diluted wine will quench your thirst better.

      Well, yes, according to your history this is so, but in fact, in order to quench your thirst, it is better to drink tea in Asia, and hot, or, as in Russia, to drink kvass, fruit drink, compote.
      And, so that everything would fall into place, the quote from the Master and Margarita is such an understanding for you and the rest of the oishniks who believe that alcoholic drinks can "quench your thirst"

      Do not drink anything except water, otherwise you will crush and it will be difficult for you, "Woland said

      it is right.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 29 November 2020 14: 03
        +11
        Bar, not by Wikipedia, but by H. Johnson Vintage: The Story of Wine. If Wikipedia copied from there, that's its problem.
        Then your indistinct bleating went. I did not describe which drink quenches thirst better, I wrote that diluted wine quenches thirst better than undiluted wine. If you can refute it, try it.
        The quote from Bulgakov is completely out of place, since at the very beginning I wrote that if you want not to get drunk, but to quench your thirst, then add wine to the water
        Your timid attempt to refute your ignorance is not credited ..
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 17: 38
          +2
          Best of all, kvass quenches thirst !!! But here for an amateur. hi
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 29 November 2020 17: 49
            +8
            It's not about preference. An easy walk in the summer is one thing, the metallurgical shop is another, also in the summer. In our span, during casting into molds, it happened even 100 degrees. To imagine, warm up the sauna, put on a cloth, and try to move vigorously.
            In such conditions, kvass does not help at all. Or salted soda or sugar-free tea.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 19: 28
              +3
              Quote: Undecim
              It's not about preference. An easy walk in the summer is one thing, the metallurgical shop is another, also in the summer. In our span, during casting into molds, it happened even 100 degrees. To imagine, warm up the sauna, put on a cloth, and try to move vigorously.
              In such conditions, kvass does not help at all. Or salted soda or sugar-free tea.

              VikNik we called it a hodgepodge. As a child, they ran to drink it at a metallurgical plant!
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 29 November 2020 19: 36
                +5
                By the way, we also offered kvass, but it was not in demand, except that the one that remained since Friday. On Monday morning, some individuals were using.
            2. Liam
              Liam 29 November 2020 19: 59
              -2
              Water is the best thirst quencher)
              What you describe is "home-made" integrators. The body loses salts, sugars, etc. during dehydration, and it is necessary to replenish them.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 29 November 2020 20: 15
                +5
                Salted water is not a homemade integrator, it is just a way to replenish losses.
                1. Liam
                  Liam 29 November 2020 20: 27
                  -2
                  Integration is the replenishment of losses. I meant that there are special integrators. Athletes, for example, use the same cyclists during many hours of races. Salt water is a scientifically proven method to combat dehydration in industry, because the body begins to "cheat "and require less water than he really needs
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 29 November 2020 20: 33
                    +5
                    Unfortunately, we were not provided with isotonic NUTREND Unisport.
                    On the other hand, at the Orava Ferroalloy Plants in Slovakia, up to four cans of beer were allowed per shift.
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 20: 42
                      +2
                      In the 80s of the NMMZ in all the shops there were drinking taps and which you could drink at your choice (salt water mineral water (Nizhneserginskaya minimum water), water, tea and kvass). After swimming in the pond, we walked through the factory and did not deny ourselves the opportunity to quench our thirst. However, they did not drive us.
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 29 November 2020 20: 56
                        +1
                        In those distant times, access control at many enterprises was a conditional concept.
                    2. Liam
                      Liam 29 November 2020 20: 47
                      -3
                      Quote: Undecim
                      up to four cans of beer per shift.

                      Well settled down. But if one breaks away from science, this or another drink quenches thirst better / worse, a purely subjective perception. The same metallurgist loses up to 10 liters of liquid per shift. And drinking 10 liters of water to compensate is not so and just purely receptor. He starts to feel sick from the taste of water. And in order to trick the receptors and make the process more pleasant, it is better to change the taste of the drink.
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 29 November 2020 20: 54
                        +6
                        There was once in the USSR Research Institute of Occupational Hygiene and Occupational Diseases, they set the rate of 4-5 liters of water per shift.
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 29 November 2020 21: 01
                        -2
                        sweat water loss over an 8-hour shift ranged from 3,8 to 11,6 kg (average 8,6 kg).
                        Velichkovsky B.T., Vlasova V.N. Silicosis and its prophylaxis in workers employed in silicon electric smelting // Issues of occupational hygiene, occupational pathology and industrial toxicology / Mikhailov V.A. - Sverdlovsk: Sverdlovsk Research Institute of Occupational Hygiene and Occupational Pathology, 1958. - T. III Part 1. - P. 155-166. - 202 p.
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 30 November 2020 16: 53
                        -2
                        I look in the section, too, there were figures to minus all the posts in a row as news and analytics ... and these are not generals' akki..eshkin cat)
              2. Grim Reaper
                Grim Reaper 29 November 2020 22: 44
                +1
                Quote: Undecim
                Salted water is not a homemade integrator, it is just a way to replenish losses.

                uh huh. In hot shops there is salted water in vending machines with soda.
  • BAI
    BAI 29 November 2020 16: 22
    +3
    1 third of white wine and 3-4 parts of water.

    This is more than one in total. It can not be. If everything is clear with 1/3, then 3-4 parts for 1/3 is how much?
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 29 November 2020 17: 27
      +4
      This is more than one in total
      Ну и что?
      1. BAI
        BAI 29 November 2020 18: 34
        +1
        I will not explain arithmetic, they do it in elementary school. If on the fingers - your expression is equivalent to a probability greater than one.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 29 November 2020 18: 46
          +5
          So what, what is more? You have one liter of wine. The third part is about 330 ml. You mix 330 ml of wine and 990 or 1320 ml of water. You get 1320 or 1550 ml of a low alcohol tonic drink.
          Shall we go to elementary school?
          1. BAI
            BAI 30 November 2020 09: 21
            0
            Someone should definitely go.
            You mix 330 ml of wine and 990 or 1320 ml of water.

            1/3 of wine - this means the whole is divided into THREE parts. Only TWO parts of wine can be added to get the whole.
            If the amount of water is different, you will NEVER have ONE THIRD wine in the resulting substance. Whatever verbiage not to engage in.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 30 November 2020 10: 06
              +4
              Someone should definitely go.
              Yes, do not delay, the earlier you go, the more chances for healing, from rudeness, by the way, too.
              The challenge is not worth getting (WHOLE) !!! Can you abstract from one !? The challenge is not to get a certain percentage of alcohol !!!
              The task is to add wine to the water to get a low-alcohol tonic drink. Therefore, one part (liter, bucket, tank) can be mixed with three (liters, buckets, tanks), it is possible with four (liters, buckets, tanks), as a result of which we get four or five liters, buckets, tanks of wine solution in water, which quenches well the thirst. Only in the first case will the alcohol concentration be higher.
              You did not serve as an ensign in the army?
              1. BAI
                BAI 30 November 2020 12: 31
                -2
                Don't back down or give up. Disgrace yourself to the end.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 30 November 2020 12: 37
                  +4
                  Reading your comments, I remember an anecdote:
                  - Comrade Warrant Officer, stop the train.
                  - Train, stop! One, two!
                  All the best, Comrade Warrant Officer.
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 30 November 2020 13: 17
                    +1
                    I have not heard such an anecdote
  • vladcub
    vladcub 29 November 2020 19: 42
    +3
    V. N, good evening. In my opinion, the Bar repeats our "beloved" Samsonov, I remember he was crucified on the topic of alcohol
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 29 November 2020 19: 50
      +6
      Where is Samsonov also alcohol? He carries such a blizzard even without alcohol that the fur coat wraps up.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 29 November 2020 19: 59
        +3
        Probably, he uses fly agarics. Amanita has a hallucinogenic effect. Once upon a time, shamans used such drugs or gave them to their fellow tribesmen.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 29 November 2020 20: 17
          +4
          He probably uses fly agarics
          Yeah, and haloperidol instead of spices.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 30 November 2020 13: 15
            +1
            Everything can be
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 29 November 2020 15: 46
    +3
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you for keeping your word. Now I read it myself, and tomorrow there will be a collective reading.
    "There was a strict ban on their appearance outside the home" and so this is where Islamic dogma comes from that a woman should wear a burqa? I was just about to ask Vyacheslav Olegovich why there were such dogmas in Islam? And now I will ask in a different way: what was their religion, perhaps it is the predecessor of Islam?
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 29 November 2020 15: 57
      +6
      The earliest documentary evidence of the need for a woman to wear a burqa is found in the code of laws of Central Assyria dating from 1400-1100. before. AD, moreover, it was clearly painted who was to wear and who was not. Prostitutes and slaves were strictly forbidden to wear a burqa.
    2. kalibr
      29 November 2020 16: 30
      +5
      Quote: Astra wild2
      what was their religion

      Polytheism. The supreme god Marduk, the goddess Ishtar, the mass of demons who had to be appeased ... Doesn't feel like "foreword" in any way.
      1. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 29 November 2020 21: 57
        +1
        Well Marduk ..... Ishtar, how interesting. Can you write about the Sumerians, and Vyacheslav Olegovich? No jokes.
        1. kalibr
          30 November 2020 16: 26
          +1
          Need to think...
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 29 November 2020 15: 59
    +2
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Quote: depressant
    Kote Pan Kohanka, but 100 years will not be needed. Hairy ones will survive and give hairy offspring, and a hairless person will turn blue from the cold, he will not be up to reproduction and therefore will die out very quickly)))

    All khana came to me bald !!! good
    I'll go look for a steel helmet so that my ears don't fall off !!! soldier

    Vladislav, if you hadn’t said that he’s bald, no one would have known, but so ...
    Now everyone will know and what to call?
    Do not be offended by the joke
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 November 2020 17: 41
      +3
      Duc, what's wrong with that! Bald and bald !!! laughing
      I have a hairy cat !!! I was tortured for her to suck her wool!
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 29 November 2020 16: 43
    +1
    Quote: Undecim
    dogmas

    So the veil is a status clothing?
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 29 November 2020 17: 32
      +3
      With regard to Assyria, Persia, Greece - yes. And she also protected from the evil eye.
      1. depressant
        depressant 29 November 2020 19: 35
        +5
        Sun, colleague sun!
        The lack of adaptation of this people to the effects of solar radiation and, as a result, concomitant diseases. Men did not have time to taste the result of irradiation, for the most part they lost their lives due to the incompatibility of the body with flat forged metal, women lived longer and got sick. Take the Australians, for example, oncology is an almost inevitable circumstance in their lives. But the Persians are not Negroes or even Arabs, they are Aryans!
        Yesterday I came across a certain map. If I knew that there would be such a topic today, I would have made a bookmark. And I didn't even remember the site.
        So that's it. On the map were the faces of men by country. The robot takes photographs of 100 male faces from any country and averages them. It turns out the face of an average inhabitant of a given country. Resident of Turkey - laughed a lot! - it turned out very similar to an Armenian, an Armenian is a typical Armenian, a Georgian is a typical Georgian, a resident of Finland is a blond Tatar, and so on.
        An Iranian as a descendant of the Persians is a beautiful Aryan, handsome with unusually regular facial features, only a brunette. Of all the faces on the map, the face of the Iranian turned out to be the most beautiful and noble. But the sun harms them, so they take care of their women with the help of a veil.
        Indians are also Aryans, so it is not known how many of them gave their lives, adapting to the sun. The Persians did not adapt, they preferred to defend themselves.
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 29 November 2020 20: 44
          +3
          Lyudmila Yakovlevna, good evening. In many ways, I agree with you, but the Aryans strain me. Very sad associations that come to mind.
          I almost put a minus.
          1. depressant
            depressant 29 November 2020 21: 22
            +4
            Vera, good evening! )))
            Because the Aryans have strained you, they will not cease to be studied material for a large number of researchers, right? We are now not talking about those who have declared the ancient roots common to many peoples as personal property and, as a result, a factor of superiority over other national entities. No, we are talking about these roots as a community of origin of many peoples of the world. That's all)))
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 30 November 2020 16: 52
              0
              Monopolization of human history or power is extreme. When they ran and measured their skulls with a compass, everyone raised their hand in greeting, decorating everything and everyone with a swistika is already prohibitive
              But I was brought up in a SOVIET SCHOOL, and there such concepts were not held in high esteem
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 30 November 2020 18: 38
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              That's all)))

              + + + + + + + + + + laughing !!!!!!!!!! hi
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 29 November 2020 17: 47
    +3
    "originally sewn with fur inside" presented such a man in such pants: taking into account the climate, the aramat will be deadly
  • vladcub
    vladcub 29 November 2020 19: 35
    +2
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Well, this is already beyond. Do you remember like Bulgakov's - "Never talk to strangers."

    It is forbidden of course, but it has to be. Do you remember: "The Adventures of Prince Florizel", as the wife of a hubby's worth of tyutu? People are such women that it is lousy without them, and with them too. And it's hard to say which is worse
    1. kalibr
      29 November 2020 20: 05
      +2
      Svyatoslav! Read about the love affairs of H.G. Wells - for sure, without them anywhere, but also lousy. He gulped everything!
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 29 November 2020 20: 36
    +2
    Quote: Krasnodar
    In no case lol There they will muddy you - with paracetamol and a quick one, made in Jaffa. ))

    And I'm afraid it won't improve my health
  • Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 29 November 2020 21: 42
    +1
    IN. Thanks for the tip. Sales and did not know. This is how it happens. I ran to download the movie. 1962. Nunado ... I don't even have any plans then ...
  • Termit1309
    Termit1309 29 November 2020 21: 50
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    Google to help you - dial thorax.

    I typed. There are no solid-forged steel thoraxes in Google. Cast bronze come across.
    1. kalibr
      30 November 2020 16: 24
      +2
      Quote: Termit1309
      steel solid forged thorax

      So they never happened! The first known iron shell belonged to the father of Alexander the Great and was made in the manner of a linen thorax. And copper and bronze thorax cuirasses were often forged from a single piece of metal. I don't understand what is wrong?
  • faterdom
    faterdom 29 November 2020 23: 00
    +2
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, as always interesting.
    But maybe I missed something, but it would be nice to preface this material with the Assyrians.
    Why?
    Because they were the first nations known to us to introduce the standardization of uniforms and weapons, that is, the progenitors of military uniforms, as such.
    And, since this fact is evidence of someone's organizational talent, this also affected the result: they began to defeat everyone around whom they reached. True, using the results of victories is rather stupid: killing and destroying as much as possible, at best imposing an exorbitant tribute.
    The slave economy was built by others: the Babylonians and the Egyptians.
    So, if anything, I am simply justifying the importance of such a topic: the world's first "uniforms", standard equipment, and weapons on the example of the Assyrians.
    1. kalibr
      30 November 2020 16: 25
      +2
      Here were my articles about the weapons of the Sumerians and Assyrians. And there is not enough material for an article on clothing!