"If Algeria has a Su-57 fighter jet earlier, it will be a lesson for our authorities" - reaction of experts in India

The exaggeration in the media space of the topic that Algeria is allegedly ready to buy Russian fifth generation Su-57 fighters has caused a considerable stir in India. The main direction for discussion is related to the fact that the Indian military and political leadership several years ago decided to withdraw from the FGFA program joint with the Russian Federation.

Then in India they announced that the technical parameters and characteristics of the aircraft being created did not suit them. It was pointed out that the Su-57, then designated PAK FA T-50, did not have an effective stealth coating and did not have sufficient thrust engines. Other "shortcomings", "problems" and "shortcomings" were also pointed out, which the Indian side refused to level and overcome together.

Now, the Indian expert community notes that a situation that is paradoxical for India may develop. It consists in the fact that the country does not have promising orders for fifth-generation fighters from foreign countries (and there can be only two such options for India: Russia or the United States), and there is no own program for creating a fifth-generation fighter that would make it possible to obtain a fighter within 4-5 next years. There is an AMCA program, but even if it is implemented, the Indian Air Force will receive the first aircraft of the fifth generation only by 2032 (at best).

New critical comments about the country's leadership appear in the Indian press. It is pointed out that if the Algerian Air Force has fifth generation fighters several years earlier than the Indian Air Force, then "the Indian government should resign in full force."

Expert response in India:

If we expect our fighter jet by 2032, it is difficult to imagine how we are going to counter with the Chinese Air Force. We are already a few steps behind him.

If Algeria has a Su-57 fighter earlier, it will be a lesson to our authorities

Comments

[Runoway]

The bear is in the forest, and they divide the skin

[Civil]

The elephants are acting restlessly again ...

[Thrall]

It will be a shame for the Indians if the Algerians find themselves "dancing"

[krot]

Indians in their role. As always, they rush about and try to sit on all the chairs at once. They were in the program for the development of an aircraft based on the SU-57, an export version. But no, they regretted the money) Did you think it was a cheap pleasure to conduct development?)

[Runoway]

They were in the program for the development of an aircraft based on the SU-57, an export version. But no, they regretted the money

This is how the site likes to think and speak in a formulaic way, without even trying to "make out all the possible versions."
Yes, the Indians, in fact, have nowhere else to take the fifth generation and their corruption is not a mess, BUT!
Did you not think that, being a direct participant in the project, the Indians saw firsthand the "Russian carelessness" (sorry to use obscenities) and realized the futility of investments, that if there is a result, it will not be very soon, and their own air force needs to be strengthened yesterday? ! And the fact that the SU-57 was promised in service back in 2010, and now it is already 2020 and only 12 prototypes. (No need to sing a song about improvements, take the facts)
And, excuse me, patriots, I will aim at the sacred, what the SU-57 is and what it can do, we only know from commercials, and what really is there, in addition to the new glider, some developers know

[Reviews]

Quote: Runoway

in vogue "carelessness

Well, you can only use foul language. And speak, and, more importantly, think. Although, you are not capable of thinking.

[Temples]

Quote: Runoway

... the Indians saw votchu "Russian frivolity" (sorry you can't swear) ...

You go out into the street. Come up to people and tell them in their eyes that you are a hero and you are slovens around. There (on the street) and obscenities you can speak. There you will get your happiness.

[Reviews]

Quote: Temples

Quote: Runoway

... the Indians saw votchu "Russian frivolity" (sorry you can't swear) ...

You go out into the street. Come up to people and tell them in their eyes that you are a hero and you are slovens around. There (on the street) and obscenities you can speak. There you will get your happiness.

Not understood...

[krot]

This is how the site likes to think and speak in a formulaic way, without even trying to "make out all the possible versions."

Yes, stereotyped, but only for this I got an aircraft engineer and I know what I am talking about, unlike some who just speak stereotyped, "everything is lost"!
And by the way, you also know about the F-22 or F-35 from the commercials.
And the fact that in Syria there were combat missions for the SU-57 you don't need to know.
Better go to your Sumerians and type letters ..

[Runoway]

I would very much like to hear from a professional reasoned opinion from a certified engineer, and not, again, the stereotyped accusation "Everything is lost" "5th column" "Navalny" and so on, and by the way, where in my comments about "everything is lost" ????
I just reasonably (!) Voiced one of the possible versions of the reasons for India's refusal from the modern project. Because I got tired of reading some screams of local generals on the topic of India, "We danced," "they wanted technology, they used a cookie" well, really under every post.
This is a serious contract, and all the points in it are clearly spelled out, what nonsense? Who from the Indian side did not read, see or notice the point "without technology transfer" when they signed it ?! Or maybe someone on the Russian side was cunning that there will be an additional agreement in the future ???
Only one person made the argument that the Indians jumped off in view of our rejection of the two-seater version.

And by the way, you also know about the F-22 or F-35 from the commercials. laughing

F-22 in service ~ 180pcs without export option
This is an argument that God forbid Russia will reach by 2050. And if the F-35 can be called (suppose) a dummy, on which the allies were "voluntarily forcibly" planted, then the F-22 secret technologies, only for the hegemon's air supremacy
It is also not an advertising argument in favor of the purchase of the F-35 by Israel (+ its own software, the guarantor of the independence of combat vehicles from the manufacturer), the Jews are far from stupid people and they are not under the yoke of the United States like any Japan, they are constantly at the stage of war with their neighbors and mistakes are unforgivable for them.
I'm waiting for a reasoned answer from an engineer, not templates about the Sumerians and liberals

[waitknait]

We had a case at the factory recently. One young and very sly early. shop decided to fool the military acceptance. Aha now works for a completely different organization. I flew out of my post, very quickly. Where the military is in charge, there is usually a strict order.

[free_flier]

)))) .... "votchuyu" Russian frivolousness "(sorry to use obscenities) and understood" ...
So this hohlik wrote ... 7 mistakes in 4 words ...
I suspect that he also has a checkmate with even more errors))).

[qpeqop]

No, mate is sacred. You can't spoil there. Friends will not understand and will not refill with the next spill. And then they will be put out for the state (fourth).

[Alex777]

Did you not think that, being a direct participant in the project, the Indians saw firsthand the "Russian sloppiness" (sorry to use obscenities) and understood the futility of investments that if there is a result, it will not be very soon, and their own air force needs to be strengthened yesterday? !

Tell the facts?
We have a plane on the way. And they have Rafali for big money and no 5th generation will have another 10-12 years at least. Unless they completely fall under the States.
And to lie under the States (in addition to political costs) - it will cost them so much money (building duplicate logistics and retraining half of the personnel) that it would be better for them to buy Su-57.

And the fact that the SU-57 was promised in service back in 2010, and now it is already 2020 and only 12 prototypes.

Don't you think that the Indians' withdrawal from financing has greatly delayed the resolution of issues on the creation of the T-50? This was one of the main goals of the States. Considering the Indian corruption that you admit.

And, excuse me, patriots, I will aim at the sacred, what the SU-57 is and what it can do, we only know from commercials, and what really is there, in addition to the new glider, some developers know

I have not read the characteristics, but I condemn the plane!
Yes, you are my friend, the most important of the patriots.

[Runoway]

Don't you think that the Indians' withdrawal from financing has greatly delayed the resolution of issues on the creation of the T-50? This was one of the main goals of the States. Given the Indian corruption you admit

And I think that our country can afford the creation of such an aircraft with its own funds and we do not need any partners (China was helped at one time, and now they have lost many sales markets), the same shame in the joint development of a long-range aircraft together with the PRC and much more. Investments are needed in their developments, and not in American papers, Turkish nuclear power plants and other people's debts.

I have not read the characteristics, but I condemn the plane!

Do not write nonsense !!!! I did not condemn the plane
- we know its characteristics only from the MO advertising, which in fact is not known, a dark horse (at least in terms of avionics, with which we have no trouble, but grief)

[Rubi0]

And the navel will not loosen all by itself? Even if you don't get loose, you need a sales market, and for this you need a monetary ally, or better an alliance like NATO, to shove them products according to standards

[Runoway]

Tell the facts? bully
We have a plane on the way

Where is he on the way ???? Since 2010, the Darkest has promised to be armed, and things are still there, it's called rashness! In Russia they say DON'T SPEAK GOP ... ©
When will the first complete conveyor belt with second stage motors be available? Tell me the year? When will they collect the required amount for their own videoconferencing and even more so for export? The capacities of the factories are known. Now think about when would India get its planes in 2040 ???? And the planes are needed yesterday, which is why it is better to buy today 4+ planes with AFAR and long-range explosive missiles than to wait, it is not known what is not known when

[Sergei Sovetkin]

Exactly! In Russia, they are not able to create a modern passenger aircraft with an adequate engine, but then the snot was lit up that our Fifth Generation imperfection is better than the Raptor, which has been completely out of production for twenty years. And the Indians did not succeed in milking the Indians after the deployment with our aircraft carrier. So shit started pouring on them.

[sgrabik]

Before writing your ridiculous nonsense here, you first at least thoroughly study the topic, the last F-22 left the stocks of the plant in 2011, from 1987 to 2011 only 187 aircraft were built, the cost of each aircraft is about $ 150 million, the Indians demanded We have not just an assembly line, but production technologies for all the most important components of the aircraft, no one will provide them with this and will not sell it for any money, and they themselves are absolutely not capable of creating such equipment even by 2035 !!!

[Runoway]

the Indians demanded from us not just an assembly line, but production technologies for all the most important aircraft components

Did you read this in the media?
Answer one question
"IF THE INDIVIDUALS TOLD AT ONCE THAT THEY WILL NOT RECEIVE ANY TECHNOLOGY", and their interest was primarily in this, then
- WHY DID THEY START AT ALL?

[sgrabik]

The Hindus were promised to organize the assembly of aircraft in India from kits supplied from Russia, to assemble in India under the "Made in India" program from Russian components and components - this is one thing, and to transfer to the Hindus the technologies for the production of all these components and components, including the 2- stage, AFAR, avionics and other critical units and components, this is completely different !!!

[bayard]

Quote: Runoway

Since 2010, the Darkest has promised to be armed,

In 2010, Putin promised to show (!), To show.
First time .
Aircraft of the 5th generation.
This is usually how the prototype is shown. But he showed it a little later.
And India's withdrawal from the project really dragged out the deadlines, because funding was complicated / reduced.
And the refusal of the partner, who was planning to purchase about 200 of these aircraft, sharply reduced the prospects for the financial success of the program. Therefore, they pulled.
In addition, India wanted and insisted on a two-seater cabin.
And we answered - we will make first a single, and only then a double version. Here an error occurred - it was necessary to immediately design a glider for a two-seater cockpit, because it is extremely difficult for one pilot to control the situation from all-aspect radar canvases, simultaneously with piloting, in air combat and using weapons ... it is extremely difficult.
On the MiG-35, a two-seater cabin was designed immediately, but also a version with a single + additional. tank, also implemented - in one standard glider. It was necessary to do the same on the T-50, the Indians would not have jumped. They really thought that they would wait a very long time for their two-seater version, because the glider would have to be completely redesigned for it.
And now they have a good incentive.
Not even with Algeria.
With the threat of a possible conflict with China.
And Pakistan at the same time.
What about

Quote: Runoway

And planes are needed yesterday, that's why it's better to buy today

At the very time when the Indians refused to participate in the PAK FA, they were actively purchasing vehicle kits for our Su-30s and assembling them at home. Expanding the original order several times.
And now they are asking them to upgrade their engines, avionics and weapons to the level of the Su-35.
The fact that they are ready to deliver the Su-57 to Algeria indicates that the production line is ready, and the aircraft has been completed. So the Indian press has become more active.
And I think they will buy it.
And asked to do a two-seater version.
And ours will.
For we ourselves need this.

[TulaTokarev]

We have this plane on the way for 20 years, and silly Frenchmen rivet and sell Rafali, Airbuses, ships of all directions and ranks all over the world, from military aircraft carriers to sailing yachts for civilians, cars, electronics, etc. P.

[A.K.]

Dear, the point here is not in raving and not in terms and not in stealth and not even in the engine. And the fact is that the Indians wanted not just an aircraft, but also the key production technologies of this aircraft and, most importantly, its second stage engine, product 30. But no one sells such technologies. So they freaked out. And by the way about stealth coating, this is all nonsense coverage if it is far from the main thing, the main airframe, engine and avionics, and different coatings are far from the main thing, it does not give many advantages at all. If it were the main thing, then with the same success it can be applied to any aircraft and it would become inconspicuous for those who argue about this coating. Somehow so good to everyone.

[Alex777]

But no one sells such technologies. So they freaked out.

I believe that it was blackmail (and what, what if?), In addition, financed by the States.
Free Indians do not "freak out", IMHO.

[A.K.]

Everything is possible! But I think the blackmail was for the purpose of bargaining for the necessary conditions, but they miscalculated here because now is not the 90s and we will somehow bring the plane to the finish line without them. And they are not alone in this world.

[voyaka uh]

The Hindus did not like the fact that they demanded money in advance,
cash. 2 billion, I think.
And when they asked: "What exactly will they be spent on?"
in Russia began to darken: "they say, new technologies, secret, we
we cannot give details. "
In translation: "you fools, pay and do not argue much."
Knowing about the Russian kickback system and the "dynamo", the Indians from such
they refused to cooperate.
Then there was still no talk about the second stage engine, etc.

[Runoway]

And the fact is that the Indians wanted not just an airplane, but also key technologies

Wishlist is one thing, but the protection of their own territory is another, and then the nerves do not decide! Where will they get the 5th generation aircraft? They will not create it themselves, the Americans will not sell, and if they do, it will be done under such conditions that it would be better not to sell. China is the enemy, only Europeans (second US) or Korea (third US) remain
There must be weighty reasons for refusal (no one country will share technologies around the world), all the fools in the mirror, in fact, are left with nothing.
Although as an option to endure on 4+ planes, and then, when the Russians succeed, then ask them, Russia is a kind, generous merciful soul

[A.K.]

Let them ask us not to refuse at a reasonable price without technology. Have you ever read what I wrote about? And Europeans and Koreans have no fifth generation of aircraft either.

[Kuroneko]

Quote: Runoway

Did you not think that, being a direct participant in the project, the Indians saw firsthand the "Russian sloppiness" (sorry to use obscenities) and understood the futility of investments that if there is a result, it will not be very soon, and their own air force needs to be strengthened yesterday? !

No I do not think so. The delay in the development of the Su-57 was caused by the fact that the Indians threw us, leaving the program (they mainly provided the financial side, and by no means R&D). And they came out because they made it clear that they would not receive critical technologies from Russia on the ball. Hence the instant hysteria in the Indian press, and tons of critical articles about why we have a bad, unusable fighter. Now let them think for themselves. If you have something.

[sgrabik]

Everything has been known and understood for a long time, the Su-57 program continues to develop and by the end of the decade our Aerospace Forces will receive at least a hundred aircraft, the engine of the second stage is almost ready, now work has begun on organizing the serial production of the new engine, in terms of its characteristics the Su-57 is noticeably superior the F-35 promoted by the Americans, a direct competitor to the Su-57, rather the F-22.

[Actor]

Did the Indians in 2010 have another option to get a 5th generation fighter? f35? Chinese?
and in 2020, has something changed for the Indians?
Is there a reasonable time limit when the Indians at least stand in line, let alone get f35? at 30? at 40?

[peter rusin_2]

Well, you must be how sighted and enlightened you are. I immediately noticed that the SU-57 is a handcrafted creation and not the BEST fighter in the world! You probably also put on special contact lenses. yeah, you're not a GOOD))

[vVvAD]

Quote: Runoway

and our own air force needs to be strengthened yesterday ?!

And to throw a corruption scandal with Raphael, so that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow ...
When they entered FGFA, they understood perfectly well that this was not a purchase of finished products.

Their business: they went out, so that later, if Russia succeeds in everything, perhaps, buy a finished product.

Quote: krot

But no, they regretted the money)

Nonsense - they don't save like that. Russia, like the United States, will include the development cost in the amortization of external orders. And the cost will be different. Absolutely. And in India they could not help but understand this. Perhaps they took a wait-and-see attitude in order to temporarily relieve themselves of US pressure and determine the best option, when the F-35 and Su-57 will be in a more refined and combat-ready form - they did not want to buy the F-35 in its current form, and even invest in paid patches for him to bring to a combat readiness state. In the case of the Su-57, they did not want to share the risks with Russia. Well, see how your own program is progressing.

PS: The picture is attached to the wrong comment

[Runoway]

Perhaps they took a wait-and-see attitude to temporarily relieve themselves of US pressure and determine the best option, when the F-35 and Su-57 will be in a more refined and combat-ready form - they did not want to buy the F-35 in its current form,

Given the presence of the S-400, the F-35 will not be sold to them in any form

[Alexey from Perm]

Well, something is known to us, those who follow the topic ... Yes, there is no smell of stealth, although there is progress in comparison with su 27. It does not hold up to the demonstration of American aircraft, it is maneuverable. How is the development of sensors and radars, yes they know it ... but based on the general state of our economy, then it smells of pessimism .. I'm afraid they will sell an unprepared aircraft to Algeria, there will only be unnecessary problems in terms of reputation.

[Amin_vivec]

Didn't you think that the Indians left the project precisely because of the pressure of "soft power" on the elite of India from one of the "partner" countries? And all their screams and dances about the backwardness of Russian technologies (by the way, to which they like to China through the Himalayas) are just an attempt to hide this interference.

[Alex777]

They entered the FGFA project hoping to get all the technology.
When they realized that no one would give everything, they left.
It’s not only and not so much about money.
Well, the Americans did their best.
Now, in general, they made a half-Indian woman vice-president.
IMHO, the US on an alliance with India against China, much more forces will be thrown in the near future.
The main complaint against us is that we will not fight on the side of India against China if the Indians need it.
And we won't - we don't need it.

[EnGenius]

When they were shown a dummy with technology transfer, they quite reasonably decided why invest billions in the export version, if Russia will do it anyway. And unlike the Su-30MK, this basic model of the Su-57 will be ensured by the rapid integration of third-party weapons, and India is famous for its love of various weapons and missiles. In addition, the technology of the Su-57 airframe, I think, will be difficult to copy, since the Indians have more or less mastered the basic technologies for the design and production of metal skin, and with composite they will have to master everything anew. Yes, and India has a huge gap in the "medium" fighter, to replace the MiG-27 and Mirage 2000. Rafali is expensive, and their Tejas produce few Koine. Therefore, India is rushing about, and the project of the "fifth" generation is easier to build on the technologies of the F-35 airframe. Therefore, there is a high probability that India will buy several dozen F-35s for its military equipment zoo.

[Alexey from Perm]

how did you decide about composite cladding? there everything is usually kk, duralumin and titanium

[Sibguest]

So how not to get nervous - the Indian belly dance around the Su-57 is increasingly reminiscent of the throwing of an Indian elephant in its own china shop ..

[Vol4ara]

They are worn as if written by you with this su57, there is no it, not even the country of the developer. And when it is, it will be raw and polished for many years.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Vol4ara

not even the country of the developer.

Open your eyes and wipe the glasses

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: Vol4ara

not even the country of the developer.

Open your eyes and wipe the glasses

What parts of the photo are these from? Where does he serve

[Cyril G ...]

OU! Did you change your shoes in a jump? In a post earlier you stated that even the country of the developer does not.

Quote: Vol4ara

not even the country of the developer.

And now we are talking about the part where he flies. Progress, cho!

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Cyril G ...

OU! Did you change your shoes in a jump? In a post earlier you stated that even the country of the developer does not.

Quote: Vol4ara

not even the country of the developer.

And now we are talking about the part where he flies. Progress, cho!

So from which parts of the photo? But please do not crap and do not merge, I really want to know where this plane serves? MB in Lipetsk?

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Vol4ara

Just please, do not crap and do not merge,

Have you changed diapers or what? And what is so much ambition? You have previously stated in your posts that they don't exist at all, and immediately changing shoes in a jump and pulling up heavy diapers tryndite something about HF.
Do you by any chance torment Klava from Ukraine?

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: Vol4ara

Just please, do not crap and do not merge,

Have you changed diapers or what? And what is so much ambition? You have previously stated in your posts that they don't exist at all, and immediately changing shoes in a jump and pulling up heavy diapers tryndite something about HF.
Do you by any chance torment Klava from Ukraine?

If they are, then indicate where are they in service? :) sat in a puddle right? We have them in service, I understood correctly, so name it, don't pull the cat

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Vol4ara

sat in a puddle right?

Once again I remind you of one sitting in puddles, your initial thesis was that there are none at all, forgotten go? And you don't have to puff up your eyes like a naughty cat, and change your shoes on the fly.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: Vol4ara

sat in a puddle right?

Once again I remind you of one sitting in puddles, your initial thesis was that there are none at all, forgotten go? And you don't have to puff up your eyes like a naughty cat, and change your shoes on the fly.

There is no intelligence in some head. And the plane is. But it is not in service with the Russian Federation, which I wrote about. And when you did it and sat in a puddle, you began to back away like a cancer, turn on the fool and write about what I said - well, in general, that in general, well, there are simply no planes at all. It should be shameful at this age to write such nonsense that is checked in 2 clicks, and if you cheated, then admit your mistake, maybe then there will be no such Spanish shame for you

[Cyril G ...]

You wrote the disrespectful verbatim the following

Quote: Vol4ara

su57, it does not exist, not even the country of the developer

Literally disrespectful - he is not. Dot. The rest of your ridiculous antics, howls, pulling the pan over your head and changing your shoes in a jump look just wild.

[Sergei Sovetkin]

Top ten! And if suddenly they can accidentally bring at least approximately to the requirements for the fifth generation, then the production of the sixth generation will already be discontinued in the United States.

[Cyril G ...]

Well, because the F-35 does not meet the requirements formulated by the Americans themselves for the 5th generation. So pull the saucepan deeper, it suits you.

[Incvizitor]

When the fsha characteristics of m 50 catch up, they will have 6e.

[Graz]

well, who are you doctor, if you have Anglo-Saxon agents of influence and lobbyists in the military and political elite, they are saw-cutters and corrupt officials who act against the interests of their country, have spared several hundred million dollars, now, at best, spend billions on a discount-free purchase

[Incvizitor]

They will also be completely forced to sponsor the creation of doubles with their grandmothers.

[Reviews]

Yeah. China, over there, did not show off. And he bought from us to copy, and he "sculpts" something there. This is where the lesson is for Indians, not Algeria.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Checked completely with this "stealth coating". US marketing is an effective weapon, everyone has been brainwashed and who has not been oiled.

And in fact, on the Su-57, about 80% of the surface consists of a radio-transparent composite + the shape of the body that excludes right angles. All this gives a decrease in the aircraft's signature.

It would be effective to have some kind of coating that would make the object invisible to radars, this would have long been used for example in the navy - covering the ship with a layer of such material and immediately invisible. But for some reason they do not do this, but use the same radio-transparent materials for the superstructure and specifically change the head start of the hull and only in this way reduce the visibility for the radar.

[Reviews]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

about 80% of the surface consists of a radio-transparent composite (...) this gives a decrease in the visibility of the aircraft.

Nu-nu ... The beam passes through the radio-transparent material and ... abuts a steel engine, semiconductor avionics, steel chassis, pipelines and weapons ...

[Volodin]

Quote: Avis

Nu-nu ... The beam passes through the radio-transparent material and ... abuts a steel engine, semiconductor avionics, steel chassis, pipelines and weapons ...

And on the F-35, excuse me, and the radio-transparent engine and pipelines, and weapons?

[ender]

And the F-35 uses not radio-transparent, but radio-absorbing materials. unexpected, huh? )

[Volodin]

Quote: ender

And the F-35 uses not radio-transparent, but radio-absorbing materials. unexpected, huh? )

Nobody argues with this kagbe. But who officially said that the materials on the Su-57 are purely radio-transparent and by no means radio-absorbing?

[ender]

I answered your question about the F-35. and about the Su-57, please contact Ratmir_Ryazan. there, obviously a great specialist is sitting)

[Herman 4223]

The cone where the radar is, it is radio-transparent, and behind it is a flat antenna array. Here is an ambush.

[ender]

and occupies "80% of the surface"))

[Herman 4223]

Not 80%, but there is a pancake with a diameter of 0.8 m. The diameter of the cone is correspondingly slightly larger.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

And the F-35 uses not radio-transparent, but radio-absorbing materials. unexpected, huh? )

If such materials really exist and they directly significantly affect the visibility and they were used on the F-35, then why then did the Americans build a Samvolt, for example, eliminating right angles, making the superstructure of radio-transparent material? They should have covered Arleigh Burke with radio-absorbent material - here's a stealth destroyer for you.

What is the reason why the ships are not covered with the same material as the F-35?

Maybe because it is not possible ?!))

I heard somewhere that in order for the coating to become radio-absorbing, it must be thicker than the length of the radio wave. Here I can be wrong, of course, but facts are stubborn things. The visibility of the aircraft / missile / ship is not reduced by the coating, but by the special shape of the hull and the use of radio-transparent materials.

[Reviews]

Quote: Volodin

Quote: Avis

Nu-nu ... The beam passes through the radio-transparent material and ... abuts a steel engine, semiconductor avionics, steel chassis, pipelines and weapons ...

And on the F-35, excuse me, and the radio-transparent engine and pipelines, and weapons?

Will not forgive. Militant dilettantism is unforgivable.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Nu-nu ... The beam passes through the radio-transparent material and ... abuts a steel engine, semiconductor avionics, steel chassis, pipelines and weapons ...

This is the case, therefore, 5th generation fighters are hardly noticeable, and are invisible to the radar at all. The RCS of a fighter with an aluminum airframe is several times larger than that of a composite one.

In a simple way, if the same F-16 or MiG-29 radar of another fighter detects conditionally from 200 km, then steles from 100 km, and missiles with a range of 120 km allow stealth to attack this fighter from a distance at which it is invisible to him, and not invisible at all.

[Reviews]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Nu-nu ... The beam passes through the radio-transparent material and ... abuts a steel engine, semiconductor avionics, steel chassis, pipelines and weapons ...

This is the case, therefore, 5th generation fighters are hardly noticeable, and are invisible to the radar at all. The RCS of a fighter with an aluminum airframe is several times larger than that of a composite one.

In a simple way, if the same F-16 or MiG-29 radar of another fighter detects conditionally from 200 km, then steles from 100 km, and missiles with a range of 120 km allow stealth to attack this fighter from a distance at which it is invisible to him, and not invisible at all.

A set of words. Memorize the primer first. It's too early for you to get into technology.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

You don't have to write nonsense about letters, I wrote in the car on the go. And you perfectly understood the essence, even in spite of typos and errors.

In fact, object if you can, but if you like checking errors, do this in a separate comment, and not instead of an argument.

[Reviews]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

You don't have to write nonsense about letters, I wrote in the car on the go. And you perfectly understood the essence, even in spite of typos and errors.

In fact, object if you can, but if you like checking errors, do this in a separate comment, and not instead of an argument.

You didn't even understand what you are delirious about. Well, okay...
All sorts of things.

[Errr]

There are not radio-transparent, but radio-absorbing materials and coatings. To begin with, as always, a little "wiki": https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Радиопоглощающие_материалы_и_покрытия

[Reviews]

Quote: Herrr

There are not radio-transparent, but radio-absorbing materials and coatings. To begin with, as always, a little "wiki": https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Радиопоглощающие_материалы_и_покрытия

Why are you addressing this to me, "wiki-eksperd"?

[Errr]

Oh! "Vicky-sperdnul" in the wrong direction. A thousand apologies...

[Reviews]

Quote: Herrr

Oh! "Vicky-sperdnul" in the wrong direction. A thousand apologies...

Hmm ...

[Errr]

Now it is quite serious to put an end to this misunderstanding. Your irony in relation to the "radio transparency" of the stealth fighter, I appreciated a plus. I added a link to "Wiki" out of the habit of immediately confirming my statements that belong to the category more difficult than "2 x 2 = 4". For the thousand-first time, I apologize to you.

[Reviews]

Thanks. Exhausted.

[Errr]

Exhausted and emptied!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Have you read yourself what is there on the Wiki under your link?

There are general concepts and illustrations in the form of angular structures of various fragments of different weapons systems. And what more affects low visibility is not clear at all.

For you, a simple question: "If there is a radio-absorbing coating and it is really effective, why is it not used on all other military equipment? Why hasn't the old F-16/15/18 and all ships been covered with it yet and have not been made all stealthy?

Do you have an answer to this question? You can have a look at Wiki.

[Errr]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Have you read yourself what is there on the Wiki under your link?

Was reading.

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

There are general concepts and illustrations in the form of angular structures of various fragments of different weapons systems. And what more affects low visibility is not clear at all.

I have never noticed a stupidity about the fact that the shape of the body is not important for reducing the RCS. Everything is clear in the Wikipedia article I have proposed for reading. We are talking there about the absorption and scattering of radio waves by materials and coatings of a certain structure and a certain composition.

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

For you, a simple question: "If there is a radio-absorbing coating and it is really effective, why is it not used on all other military equipment? Why hasn't the old F-16/15/18 and all ships been covered with it yet and have not been made all stealthy?

Well, here I am, with your permission, just to quote a small snippet of the aforementioned Wiki article:

In the United States, the use of RPMs in conventional aircraft designs began in the late 1950s. Such materials were used on the Lockheed U-2 high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft.... The purpose of using RPM is twofold - to reduce the RCS of the aircraft in a specific frequency range of the radar, and to isolate the operation of numerous onboard antenna devices in order to avoid mutual interference.
— reconnaissance aircraft "Lockheed" SR-71 Blackbird - specified above
— attack aircraft A-10 in the construction of the aircraft, radio-absorbing materials are used. They occupy 20 percent of the wing area (probably the lower surface at the fuselage interface).

Are RPMs used on other types of aircraft? Alas, I don’t know that. Here you have to stubbornly dig in the net.
In conclusion, a little about radio-transparent composites. The Su-57 glider has those in its design. These are fiberglass, covering the antennas of all radars and, obviously, active elements of the electronic warfare equipment of this fighter. In the photo below, these details of the unpainted airframe (they are yellow) are clearly visible.The exceptions here are, perhaps, the almost completely fiberglass keels of our latest fighter. You are right here. The vertical (conditionally) tail of the Su-57 is, indeed, almost completely (except for the tips) radio transparent.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Such materials were used on the Lockheed U-2 high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft.

In my opinion, this just proves that this coating is not effective, although it looks impressive, since these materials did not help him much to remain unnoticed, like Blackbird with A-10, even for old radars, but there is nothing to say about modern ones.

All these planes were discovered, intercepted as in the case of the fast Blackbird and shot down as in the case of the U-2 and over the USSR and over Cuba.

Well, on composite materials Su-57 -

According to the chief designer A. Davidenko, by weight, composite materials make up 25% of the weight of an empty aircraft, and by surface area - 70%. He also noted that, in comparison with the Su-27, the Su-57 airframe has four times less details. This allows you to reduce labor intensity and shorten production time, which affects the cost of the machine.

[Errr]

CFRPs, used in large quantities in the design of the Su-57 airframe, as well as all CFRP composites in general, due to the presence of carbon in their composition, are not radio-transparent materials. Their task is to reduce the weight of the aircraft while maintaining structural strength. True, here, probably, there is also the effect of absorption and scattering of radio waves of certain lengths and, as a consequence, a decrease in the EPR of the glider in some parts of the radio spectrum.
As for the radio-absorbing coatings, I can only say that the Americans, with all the capriciousness of these coatings and, as a result, the heap of problems that arise (for limiting flight speed, for keeping aircraft, for regularly updating coatings), stubbornly continue to use them even on the newest F -35. So there is a rational grain in this, not otherwise. I think so.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Checked completely with this "stealth coating". US marketing is an effective weapon, everyone has been brainwashed and who has not been oiled.

And in fact, on the Su-57, about 80% of the surface consists of a radio-transparent composite + the shape of the body that excludes right angles. All this gives a decrease in the aircraft's signature.

It would be effective to have some kind of coating that would make the object invisible to radars, this would have long been used for example in the navy - covering the ship with a layer of such material and immediately invisible. But for some reason they do not do this, but use the same radio-transparent materials for the superstructure and specifically change the head start of the hull and only in this way reduce the visibility for the radar.

Why did you decide that the coating makes the plane invisible? Someone from the developers once stated this? The opinion of the crowd and journalists may not even try to pass off as the opinion of engineers

[Herman 4223]

The coating can further reduce the aircraft's signature. But to make it not noticeable it is hardly.

[igor36]

I will tell you a SCARY secret: most (not all !!!) of the composite materials used in the construction of a modern airplane's airframe are not radio-transparent !!! They contain carbon fiber. The function of composite materials in aircraft construction is primarily weight saving.

[Incvizitor]

This coating could be applied to other aircraft as well.

[EnGenius]

CFRP is not radio transparent. Most likely, several layers of plastic of a specially selected thickness are molded on top of the carbon fiber, which ensures the attenuation of the reflected wave, by analogy with stealth coatings in US fighters. Otherwise, we would have seen the "black wing" and, in principle, would not have been painted from above.

[APASUS]

I bet that the Su-57 will appear in 2-3 more countries before the Indians hand over back.

[NDR-791]

I bet that the Su-57 will appear in 2-3 more countries, before the Indians hand over back
Maybe we will have it first? In the required quantity and the stated configurations.

[Deniso]

Sophisticated Indians. WHEN they praise what they need to buy in every way and then, in order to bring down the price, they will obgovnyuk but buy.

[Deniso]

I saw the ritual of shooting a cannon among the Indians ... in the circus it's already funny

[Antifreeze]

It is not excluded that the contract between Russia and India will be re-concluded. Only for the purchase.

[A. Privalov]

For 7 years I have been keeping a fifty-year-old bottle of Jean Fillioux cognac which I received directly from the hands of the manufacturers for some 2500 euros.
I'm going to open it when the Su-57 begins to enter the troops in full complement. How I look forward to this event!
As soon as I see a picture of the Su-57 on the VO, I start to salivate heavily. So I have been suffering for years ...

[The Siberian barber]

If Algeria has a Su-57 fighter earlier, this will be a lesson to our authorities

Absolutely agree!

[Dmitry Makarov]

Do the Indians have at least one successful weapon system of their own design? There are plenty of unsuccessful ones, but everything produced by the Indian military-industrial complex is substandard. It is not clear what these people are counting on, maybe the Americans?

[ender]

in general, funny topics on VO. Who can say - what exactly is the lesson to the Indian authorities from the hypothetical acquisition of Su-57 by Algeria? Algeria will take over India? or will Algeria buy up all the Su-57s and there will be no others? ))

[Pandiurin]

Quote: ender

in general, funny topics on VO. Who can say - what exactly is the lesson to the Indian authorities from the hypothetical acquisition of Su-57 by Algeria? Algeria will take over India? or will Algeria buy up all the Su-57s and there will be no others? ))

If not for all the previous gestures of the Indians about the fifth generation.
China has this toy, India does not.
Why? If India has been ventilating this important issue from different sides for a long time (they hysterical, developed jointly, developed themselves, quarreled with everyone, twitched back and forth, etc.). And they are bypassed by Algeria, a country that is thinner compared to India and which stealth is not so strong and needed, without any preliminary twitching and dancing, the time has come and just bought.

Will it really be strange?

[ender]

Quote: Pandiurin

And they are bypassed by Algeria, a country that is thinner compared to India and which stealth is not so strong and needed, without any preliminary twitching and dancing, the time has come and just bought.

Did you buy it for sure? or are they still going? So India can acquire the Su-57 at any time. Will they really refuse? )) and dancing is a tradition. good old tradition
ps Algeria has already bought MiGs once. loud story was ..

[rotmistr60]

a paradoxical situation for India may develop

In such situations, India drives itself into eternal "dancing" when concluding contracts and "dancing with songs" when dealing with the United States.

[sav]

Something late, the Indians realized

[123456789]

Quote: Civil

The elephants are acting restlessly again ...

Elephants are puffing

"If Algeria has a Su-57 fighter jet earlier, it will be a lesson for our authorities."

An even greater lesson will be the emergence of a 5th generation fighter from Pakistan, and China already has one.

Hindus do not want to pay for the fifth generation plane and come up with all sorts of excuses. And, in fact, they demand: you transfer the technologies of the fifth generation to us, and we will make them ourselves at our factories. That is, they want to get the most ultra-modern equipment and technologies for broken pittance. Hence all the claims. There is nothing to worry about. You just need to ignore these statements. This is India. They never just agree on anything, they always need something. "

The money allocated for the FGFA went to the S-400

Only a few countries today possess the technologies and scientific schools necessary for the development and production of all the most modern systems and complexes of air defense. Russia is a leader in this area. For the Indian army, which has been armed with Russian air defense systems for half a century, it is important that the Indian skies are covered with the most modern and most reliable systems in the world. "

https://tsargrad.tv/articles/bez-paniki-rynok-est-rynok-a-indusy-indusy_127354

[Maks1995]

Plny, complete bullshit.
Perhaps even in .. (malicious misleading)
1) Anonymous article.
2) None of the expert on name was named.
3) instead of them - anonymous comments, probably from social networks.
4) Inadequate conclusions, supposedly the media.
For example, - Why would the Indian government resign because of a certain plane ??? a long-term developer, whom Russia itself makes a little bit ?? And what Alzhir will get is not clear at all. The technique is kind of secret, we need it ourselves ...

IMHO, the quality of articles has fallen.

[ficus2003]

Quote: Runoway

SU-57 was promised in service back in 2010

What do these words mean to you? What they promised that in 2010 they will already be in service then this is nonsense - where are the proofs?

[ficus2003]

Quote: Max1995

Plny, complete bullshit.
Perhaps even in .. (malicious misleading)
1) Anonymous article.
2) None of the expert on name was named.
3) instead of them - anonymous comments, probably from social networks.
4) Inadequate conclusions, supposedly the media.

This site often feeds its users with such slop, people hawala, the standard trick of second-rate sites when there is nothing to write.

[zwlad]

And a beautiful plane turned out, and not like a striped one - a penguin.

[123456789]

Quote: ender

And the F-35 uses not radio-transparent, but radio-absorbing materials. unexpected, huh? )

The F-22 and F-35 fighters use a polymer coating with ferromagnetic particles several millimeters thick, which absorbs radio waves mainly in the centimeter range. The coating adheres to the surface of the aircraft and breaks / peels off when heated during flight at transonic and supersonic speeds, as well as at low altitudes by dust. Therefore, in the places where the F-22 and F-35 are based, stationary hangars are required to remove the destroyed / peeled coating and apply a new one. Those. American stealth technology is focused only on use from base airfields or aircraft carriers.

Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/novoe-radiopogloshayushee-pokrytie-rpm-sa-n.html
naukatehnika.com

[123456789]

Quote: Avis

China, over there, did not show off. And he bought from us to copy, and he "sculpts" something there.

Recently, the Chinese edition Sohu wrote about the new Chinese metamaterial Metasurface, which is capable of providing low radar visibility for J-20 fighters. A new mathematical model describes the behavior of electromagnetic waves in contact with the surface of a metal covered with microscopic patterns. Experts believe that the Chinese solution is not suitable for airborne vehicles, since the engraving on the metal surface will be subject to dust erosion.

Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/novoe-radiopogloshayushee-pokrytie-rpm-sa-n.html
naukatehnika.com

[detox597]

Why are we looking for any "gypsy" as our allies? The same smart-ass Indians, who have not yet come to their senses after their fucking by the British, then some other naked-ass? What ... to throw beads in front of pigs? Remember the same rotten Ebipet (a vivid example) from where they got the fuck up ... and other examples are known ... Are you rushing about ?! - well, let's go .......!

[Vdi73]

It will be a lesson for India if they now want to buy SU57, but they are refused and sold to Pakistan, they should be taught like kittens, so that they wag their pelvis and neck less.