The truth about Katyn: a conference of Russian historians outraged Polish diplomats

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The Polish Embassy in Moscow made another, very sharp, demarche against our country. The Russophobic attacks of the Warsaw diplomats, alas, have long been no surprise to anyone, since they have become practically the norm. However, this time the target of attack was not domestic politicians, or, say, the military, but historians. Their conference angered the diplomatic circles of neighboring Poland. What is the reason?

The official statement made by representatives of the diplomatic mission said about the "amazement" they experienced when they learned that at a conference devoted to the problems of Russian-Polish relations, instead of meekly repeating the version imposed on our country by Western "researchers" about involvement in the death of Polish officers in 1939-1941, the "executioners from the NKVD", dared not only express, but also argued to defend alternative points of view.



For a more accurate understanding of the essence of the issue, you just need to carefully familiarize yourself with the resolution adopted at the end of the scientific and practical conference held on November 16-18 this year on the territory of the Nilo-Stolobenskaya Pustyn Monastery, located in the Tver region. During this event, which was attended not only by professional historians, political scientists, but also public figures, politicians from Russia, Poland, and the United States, considerable attention was paid to the difficult and controversial moments of the past. The Katyn affair was considered only one of them.

Apparently, the gentlemen from the embassy were deeply outraged by the fact that the conference participants directly pointed out that the current practice of covering and interpreting the tragic events associated with Katyn is in no way scientifically grounded, but exclusively politicized.

Instead of an objective search for truth, in this case there are attempts to create and at any cost to support another anti-Soviet and Russophobic myth, which is part of something even greater. Namely, the course adopted from a certain point in the West to belittle the decisive role of the USSR in the victory over Nazism in the Great Patriotic War.

The resolution also mentions that the emergence and consolidation in the public consciousness of both Russian and Polish citizens of the version of the Katyn tragedy, which is very far from the truth, was also facilitated, to put it mildly, by its ill-considered assessments made by the leaders of the USSR and Russia in the 80s - 90s of the last century. Specialists in the field stories they were definitely not. However, no one would have dared to call the then political figures involved in the destruction of the USSR patriots.



In order to please their "Western partners" and take the next step in "exposing Stalinism", they did not hesitate to use any kind of manipulation and use of extremely dubious "evidence" and "materials." Unfortunately, the decree of the Russian State Duma of November 26, 2010, which, again, is a purely political document, also made its bitter contribution to distorting the truth. The conference participants in their resolution stressed that all these negative moments in no way contribute to an objective and impartial study of the contradictory and tragic events of 1939-1940. The fate of Polish officers who ended up in the USSR - including.

Departing from the materials of the conference, let me remind myself that the beginning of political speculations around the Katyn affair was laid by the propaganda machine of the Third Reich. To our great regret, some modern Polish politicians, who have forgotten about the number of Red Army soldiers who laid down their heads when liberating their country from the Nazi yoke, stubbornly continue to consider the fabrications of the department of Joseph Goebbels "the ultimate truth". Or do they prefer to consider - proceeding from the prevailing Russophobic conjuncture in the West?

By the way, as one of the organizers of the conference, the head of the scientific department of the Russian Military Historical Society, Oleg Nikiforov, said, an invitation was kindly sent to the representatives of the Polish embassy to this event, where, if they wanted, they could publicly and openly express their point of view on all discussed questions. Pans diplomats simply ignored this gesture of goodwill. Obviously, it is preferable for them to "conduct discussions" after the fact - in the usual format of scandalous demarches.

Without a doubt, those who in Warsaw intend to continue building their political and state careers on Russophobia are in no way disadvantageous to the calls made at the conference for specialists from both countries to work together to eliminate the numerous and deep contradictions in everything related to “ Katyn tragedy ". And a completely unpleasant moment for them is the mention of the mass destruction of Soviet prisoners of war in Polish concentration camps after the war of 1919-1921 voiced there. So after all, not long before the destruction of the image of Poland as an "eternal victim" ...

It is difficult to imagine a history that is more complex, dramatic and filled with mutual resentment than Russian-Polish and Soviet-Polish relations. Reproaches, accusations and claims can sound endlessly from both sides. Nevertheless, in Warsaw, for some reason, they believe that they have a monopoly on their presentation. It is not for nothing that Dmitry Peskov, speaking out about the next attack that sounded from there, called it "a deplorable denial of reality."
238 comments
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  1. +49
    26 November 2020 07: 20
    dared not only to express, but also to defend reasonably alternative points of view.
    With the Poles, everything is clear and predictable. But it was necessary to express and reasonably prove alternative points of view much earlier. And then at first they themselves repented and apologized, taking the blame solely on themselves, and now they realized it. For a long time to come, Russia will have to clean up the mess of the Gorbachev-Yeltsin period.
    1. +28
      26 November 2020 07: 28
      ... the decree of the State Duma of Russia of November 26, 2010, which, again, is a purely political document, made its bitter contribution to distorting the truth.
      This is no longer EBN. It was crowing, and there at least don't dawn. That's why it was done ??? Then some "activist" will repent of the occupation of California ... so what? We will pay and repent for the rest. And yet, the conference of historians is in no way a political step on a national scale. But the note of the embassy from the "jackals of europe" is just such a step. And ours again expressed "concern".
      1. +26
        26 November 2020 07: 37
        Quote: rotmistr60
        it was necessary to express and reasonably prove alternative points of view much earlier

        And first, to voice the figure, how many Red Army prisoners of war the Poles rotted to death and shot in their concentration camps
        1. +18
          26 November 2020 09: 08
          ... the emergence and consolidation in the public consciousness of both Russian and Polish citizens of a very far from the truth version of the Katyn tragedy, among other things, was facilitated by, to put it mildly, its ill-considered assessments, made by the leaders of the USSR and Russia in the 80s - 90s last century.

          That was the past and everything is clear with him. Well, now what? Have the current leaders somehow rectified the situation or support it with their silence? I remember Putin even went to Katyn with the Poles ... The "innocent" Polish victims mourned and Stalin was scolded.

          An amazing situation has developed in Russia in which nothing can tarnish the president in the eyes of Russians. Whatever he does, he always comes out with dryness from the most murky water.

          The situation is so surreal that it seems that the Guarantor is no longer just a person, but an infallible deity. Divine! True, they don't call it that yet, but the effect is the same.
          1. -1
            26 November 2020 09: 50
            The situation is so surreal that it seems that the Guarantor is no longer just a person, but an infallible deity. Divine! True, they don't call it that yet, but the effect is the same.

            The deity has a rating of 10 to 15% true. But of course, this is a consequence of the "wise" domestic policy. Unfortunately, people do not pay much attention to such pearls .. but the refrigerator works flawlessly, although it's all in one connection. Hait the USSR and is promoting its achievements, this is schizophrenia.
            So today's leaders are busy eating pickles of milk ..
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +9
              26 November 2020 11: 39
              Enough of the leadership of the Russian Federation being irresponsible to their people to continue playing giveaway with Poland on the Katyn affair! Namely.

              The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg (ECHR) examined the complaint No. 29520/09 “Volk-Ezerskaya and Others v. Russia”. Relatives of Polish officers who were allegedly shot in the Katyn forest in 1940 filed a complaint against Russia.
              On June 18, 2010, Viktor Ilyukhin, Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Security Committee, demanded a parliamentary investigation into the authenticity of the Katyn documents found in "closed package No. 1" allegedly kept in the top secret archive of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee.
              For this Ilyukhin had all the documentary grounds in the form of fake drafts of Katyn documents, top-secret folder No. 29 with fake documents from 1940, fake seals and stamps. Ilyukhin demonstrated all this to the deputies.
              It turned out that the documents were falsified by a group of specialists under the leadership of A. N. Yakovlev during "perestroika" at the whim of Gorbachev's "new thinking".
              However, the deputies of the State Duma adopted a previously adopted falsified version of the Katyn case.

              The topic of the "Katyn case" came to light because of the Poles' complaint against Russia to the ECHR, which was filed by relatives of Polish officers who were allegedly shot in the Katyn forest in 1940.
              It must be remembered that the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the ECHR.
              As a result, the State Duma's response to Katyn impressed the judges of the ECHR so much that they included it in the text of their judgment of April 16, 2012 and unsubstantiatedly, the pre-war Soviet leadership was found responsible for the execution of Polish officers in 1940.
              And as a result, the POSITIVE number of Poles shot in Katyn was overestimated 12 times - from 1 803 to 21 857 with 22 bodies of identified Poles!

              Victor Ilyukhin The truth about Katyn !. Feb 3 2014
              1. +7
                26 November 2020 11: 50
                In the Tver region, 30 kilometers from Tver, there is a memorial complex "Mednoe". Visitors to Mednoye are assured that the remains of more than six thousand Polish prisoners of war who were shot by the Soviet authorities in the spring of 1940 in Kalinin are buried in this place. There is a similar memorial in the Smolensk region (Katyn).

                There were NO mass executions of Poles in 1940 by the authorities of the USSR.
                In the Smolensk region in the fall of 1941, Polish prisoners of war were shot in the Katyn forest by Nazi invaders.

                In the period from 1941 to 1943, several hospitals were located in the vicinity of the village of Mednoye. The Soviet soldiers of the 29th Army, who died in wounded medical battalions, were also buried there. And in the place where the Polish memorial is now located, there was a collection point for the bodies of the Red Army soldiers who died in battles, whose memory has not yet been immortalized. In 2006, representatives of the “Union of Soviet Officers” erected a marble slab on the territory of the Mednovsky Memorial in memory of the Soviet soldiers of the 29th Army who fell in battle. But soon the stove mysteriously disappeared.

                Myths of Copper. • 25 jul. 2015
                1. +4
                  26 November 2020 18: 59
                  Visitors to Medny are assured that the remains of more than six thousand Polish prisoners of war
                  Moreover, in the 90s only 243 bodies were found, and for some reason the excavation was stopped.
              2. +7
                26 November 2020 12: 12
                Quote: Tatiana
                It must be remembered that RF is the legal successor of the ECHR.

                I forgive everyone's forgiveness! Too late I discovered a TYPE!
                To correct the text, the comment box has already been closed.

                SHOULD read:
                RF is the legal successor THE USSR.
              3. -2
                27 November 2020 18: 23
                "It turned out that the documents were falsified by a group of specialists led by A. Yakovlev during the" perestroika "at the whim of Gorbachev's" new thinking. "
                - Where was it found out and who proved it? Otherwise - blah blah blah ... Everyone knows ... in one word.
          2. +4
            26 November 2020 15: 46
            Will it be easier for you if Navalny or Sobchak does the same? It's not about a specific person, it's about the system and ideology.
            By the way, the only party that names the real perpetrators of the execution of the Poles - the Nazis - is the Communist Party of the Russian Federation.
        2. +14
          26 November 2020 09: 16
          And first, to voice the figure, how many Red Army prisoners of war the Poles rotted to death and shot in their concentration camps
          And not only to voice, but also to present !!! Including for payment, even if the relatives of the victims.
          At the same time, it is possible for the Tribalts - how many of ours did they kill in the concentration camps in the First World War? They call the numbers 100-150 thousand.
          Here Israel presents for its own and does not hesitate. And we all repent, we bow down, we crawl backwards into all sorts of European courts on all fours !!!
        3. +13
          26 November 2020 09: 22
          Quote: Shurik70
          Quote: rotmistr60
          it was necessary to express and reasonably prove alternative points of view much earlier

          And first, to voice the figure, how many Red Army prisoners of war the Poles rotted to death and shot in their concentration camps

          Oh, I would break a huge park in Katyn opposite the Polish monument and put a huge monument to the Soviet victims of Polish repressions there, so that the Polish monument looks like a pea in a field against its background
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. +2
          27 November 2020 16: 36
          Shurik70 (Alexander) One thing has nothing to do with the other. When the Germans gathered specialists and journalists to show the victims, everything went according to plan. But, when a doctor from Italy, who was on the commission, was surprised that the cartridges that were found at the site of the execution of the Poles were made in Germany in August 1941. When did the Russians manage to buy German cartridges for execution and why, if they do not fit weapons made in the USSR. Not only did he write this report for the authorities, he also sent the report to the newspaper and it was printed. A week after the report appeared in the newspaper, he was hit on the sidewalk by a car that could not be found later.
      2. -1
        26 November 2020 09: 06
        Quote: NDR-791
        This is no longer EBN. It was crowing, and there at least don't dawn. That's why it was done ???

        Those who tried to destroy the USSR from within, those who survived after the "uprooting" of the NKVD in the 30s. This is the "Prometheus" created by Pilsudski at the General Staff.
        1. +11
          26 November 2020 09: 21
          Who is this who tried to destroy the USSR from within I REPEAT LOUD November 26, 2010 !!!!!!
          Unfortunately, you were a little delayed in time with the definition of our native Russian scoundrels. They are here and now, and they are not at all the same people who destroyed the USSR. The current (after the collapse of the Union) the second generation has already grown
          1. +1
            26 November 2020 10: 09
            Quote: NDR-791
            This is who it was trying to destroy the USSR from within I REPEAT LOUD November 26, 2010 !!!

            And I will repeat quietly, quietly, "Ozetites and Prometheans".
          2. +1
            26 November 2020 10: 13
            Quote: NDR-791
            They are here and now, and they are not at all the same people who destroyed the USSR.

            Those who and who brought down Syuz and who are now trying to destroy Russia. Look at the minus of your comments, and occasionally TV.
          3. +3
            26 November 2020 13: 21
            This is not the second generation, but the very first. Today, we can see very well with specific examples how the United States is destroying and robbing countries it likes. The technology of all these color revolutions has three components, which were repeated in the USSR, Libya, and recently in Belarus: 1. People are being told that they are not “cool”, but “cool” in America. A complex of national inferiority is instilled. Local authorities' crimes are being "exposed".
            2. Organized cells (circles for economic interests, like the "circle" of Chubais in St. Petersburg, various volunteer organizations that for the time being are engaged in some purely peaceful matter, like in Ukraine or Belarus, but at the decisive moment become the mainstay of the protest and form new power structures); 3. High-ranking security officials are bribed in the structures that must fight such "circles" and can dig them in ahead of time. Such corrupt security officials should disguise these cells from reasonable suspicions of an impending coup. And now attention, the question: who in the destroyed USSR was such a purchased, recruited security official who had for the time being to cover from the watchful eye of the KGB "a completely peaceful and innocent circle of economic interests" that had formed in St.
      3. +2
        26 November 2020 09: 46
        Especially, I looked at the composition of the government commission that examined the remains of Polish prisoners of war in the Katyn forest. There is NOT a single representative of Poland on the commission. Surprising and weird. Therefore, there may be doubts about the reliability and objectivity of the commission's conclusions. I can understand the dissatisfaction of the Polish side. But with the impudence and rudeness with which the Polish side tries every time, tries to challenge the conclusions of the commission, there can be no question of a normal dialogue between us. To begin with, the Poles need to calm down, cool down, change their tone in relation to our country, and only after that, they MAY have reasons to REQUEST a re-conduct of the study and receive answers to all their questions.
        1. +2
          26 November 2020 19: 14
          "looked at the composition of the government commission examining the remains of Polish prisoners of war in the Katyn forest."
          ===
          And where could they get them?
          And who would have believed them, after Anders' army deserted almost at full strength?
          1. +1
            26 November 2020 23: 15
            Yes, I understand! But all the weaves need to come up with something, let the Poles climb through the graves, in the presence of ours, of course. But ..... only if the Poles drop their Russophobia and begin to build normal relations with our country.
            1. -1
              28 November 2020 02: 03
              Learn history and geopolitics. Russia-Russia-USSR-RF relations with Poland have been going on for over 1000 years. And these 1000 years are 1000 years of enmity, conflicts, wars, Russophobia and betrayal. This is 1000 years of hatred and envy, fueled by inferiority complexes. If the state and the people inhabiting it for 1000 years hates us and is hostile to us, then this will NEVER change! Our great-Orthodox ancestors had a saying: Be friends with the bear, but hold on to the ax! Poland is certainly not a bear, but a jackal can bite the heel with rotten teeth.
    2. +21
      26 November 2020 07: 29
      It was not Gorbachev or Yeltsin who officially admitted guilt for the deaths of Polish prisoners of war ...
      1. +17
        26 November 2020 07: 36
        Quote: faiver
        It was not Gorbachev or Yeltsin who officially admitted guilt for the deaths of Polish prisoners of war ...

        In 2010, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin arrived on a one-day working trip to Smolensk, where he also invited his Polish counterpart Donald Tusk. The program of the meeting of the two prime ministers is quite extensive, but the key point is a joint visit to the Katyn memorial, opened at the site of the mass grave of Polish officers killed in the 1940s, and Soviet citizens - victims of Stalin's political repression.

        During his visit to the memorial, Putin said that there could be no justification for Stalin's repression, without mentioning, however, the name of Stalin himself. Later, he did it at a press conference after talks with Tusk. "There can be no justification for these crimes, our country has given a clear political, legal, moral assessment of the atrocities of the totalitarian regime," Putin said. "And such an assessment is not subject to any revisions," he stressed.
        1. +15
          26 November 2020 09: 14
          Quote: RUSS
          During his visit to the memorial, Putin said that there can be no justification for Stalin's repression

          Well, what to talk about when the government itself admitted a fact that did not exist. What can be done now, when their rulers themselves have destroyed their country, and now they have also surrendered and fouled their history. I lived in the village of Krasny Bor near Katyn and from the old people (at that time young) I knew my villagers more than our rulers.
          1. +3
            26 November 2020 22: 27
            The Katysk case is very confusing and ambiguous, and initially, first the Germans, then the USSR, and now the Poles are using it for their political and propogandistic purposes, and no arguments, at the moment, will convince the Poles that this is all simply contrary to elementary logic. They are unwilling to listen to anything other than repentance. Why did Putin act as this question was addressed to him and his entourage? It was he who repented, not the peoples of Russia.
            My opinion is simple - let Russian historians, based on all available documents and evidence, write a work (book) and publish it. And no longer officially enter into polemics with anyone and refer all attacks to collective labor.
            Interesting documents on the site "istmat"
            http://istmat.info/taxonomy/term/469
            All this modern orgy began under Kachinsky and he should be asked who initiated this.
            1. +1
              28 November 2020 02: 09
              There are comprehensive books: Mukhin's "Katyn Detective" and Prudnikova 2020. In them, everything is considered in detail, permeated, all the facts are considered and absolutely unambiguous conclusions are made. Nothing else on this topic is likely to be done. And the proposal "not to enter into polemics on this issue with anyone" is absolutely correct and should become the Law. As well as, for example, in relation to the claims of the Japanese to the "northern territories".
            2. IC
              0
              28 November 2020 04: 17
              Until all the archives of that period are declassified, your implementation of your proposal will not dot all the I.
        2. -3
          26 November 2020 19: 15
          "Putin said that there can be no justification for Stalin's repression"
          ===
          Is there any justification for Putin's genocide against his people?
          Under Stalin, afterburner was preparing for a defensive war against all of Europe.
          And against whom under Putin?
    3. -5
      26 November 2020 07: 41
      Well, it's better later than never.
    4. +16
      26 November 2020 08: 12
      But it was necessary to express and reasonably prove alternative points of view much earlier.

      Well, I just live in Tver and did a bit of this business. Pieces of newspapers in the pockets of the killed officers explain everything. This is not the work of our hands. Or were the Chekists fools?
      1. +2
        26 November 2020 08: 28
        Well, I just live in Tver and did a bit of this business. Pieces of newspapers in the pockets of the killed officers explain everything. This is not the work of our hands. Or were the Chekists fools?

        What kind of newspapers?
        1. +9
          26 November 2020 09: 20
          Quote: Arzt
          What kind of newspapers?

          Just a date that does not coincide with the version of the Poles and the State Duma and some others.
        2. +9
          26 November 2020 09: 26
          What kind of newspapers?

          Newspapers were released later than the Poles were tidied up according to the Germans.
          1. +4
            26 November 2020 09: 41
            Yes, if only newspapers .... There are so many jambs that do not fit into the accepted official version, which is no longer disgusting, but simply ridiculous. But after all, we always have political expediency, don't we?)) Therefore, purely IMHO, they will not seriously dig up this story for a long time ...
          2. +4
            26 November 2020 13: 04
            Quote: Kerensky
            Newspapers were released later than the Poles were tidied up according to the Germans.

            Not only newspapers, but also letters with dates according to the time when the Nazis were already at Moscow.
            Like this.
      2. +9
        26 November 2020 08: 47
        Several years ago I heard the recollections of an NKVD veteran. Among them, he firmly said that there was a strict order - there should not be anything identifying a person on the body and in the clothes of those being shot. The order was respected even when retreating and surrounded. Here - on each of the bodies on them are not only letters, but - passports, diplomas, there is even a personal dagger.
        1. +1
          26 November 2020 10: 07
          I won't give exact references as a souvenir, but there are buttons that were not in the Polish army and leatherette belts (which we simply could not have left, and the Poles did not have such belts) and large-caliber pistol belts ... .. and much more....
        2. IC
          0
          28 November 2020 04: 20
          Valuable expert veteran of the NKVD.
          1. 0
            17 December 2020 12: 50
            Any contemporary of the events in question is more valuable than those who learned about it from the perestroika newspapers.
    5. +9
      26 November 2020 08: 14
      Quote: rotmistr60
      And then at first they themselves repented and apologized, taking the blame solely on themselves, and now they realized it.

      I am glad that the "Katyn affair" has not been forgotten and the scientific and historical community is trying to understand it from the point of view of real facts. I think that the conference should have, by its decision, sent to the State Duma of the Russian Federation a proposal to disavow all statements previously made by this body, which were not supported by relevant documents and irrefutable facts. Correcting mistakes is not a sin, it is a sin to repeat over and over again.
      1. +9
        26 November 2020 09: 20
        No, not forgotten. Despite the murder of the main exposer of the Goebbels-Polish lie - Ilyukhin.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI-sEhX4ygQ
    6. +4
      26 November 2020 08: 20
      "These were obligations of another administration ..." (c) hail on the hill
    7. +1
      26 November 2020 09: 01
      Quote: rotmistr60
      But it was necessary to express and reasonably prove alternative points of view much earlier.

      AFTER the liberation of the Smolensk region, it was argued, and everyone agreed, but ...
      repeat imposed on our country by Western "researchers" version of the involvement in the death of Polish officers in 1939-1941 "executioners from the NKVD", they dared not only express

      Here all the Poles themselves said "Imposed by Western researchers."
    8. +5
      26 November 2020 09: 26
      Quote: rotmistr60
      And then at first they themselves repented and apologized, taking the blame solely on themselves

      They did not repent, there was nothing to repent of, but simply betrayed the memory of their fathers, grandfathers and brothers, vile double-dealing, the same as those who "licked the pots of the Germans."
    9. +6
      26 November 2020 09: 35
      Very true noticed.
      Only you haven't made the obvious conclusion.
      More precisely, the first step.
      Recognize citizen Gorbachev and citizen Yeltsin guilty of falsifying the history of their country.
      And then, how lucky.
      To bring to responsibility for the committed act of a living person or simply to demolish this center in Sverdlovsk to hell.
      The verbal battles of scientists are a necessary but not sufficient step.
      Someone should be punished for all these freaks that have brought and will bring harm to my Motherland in the future? At least in one form or another.
      1. +2
        26 November 2020 19: 20
        "Recognize citizen Gorbachev and citizen Yeltsin guilty of falsifying the history of their country.
        And then, how lucky "
        ===
        And also all the members of the State Duma of the Russian Federation, sample 2010, who voted FOR THE RECOGNITION OF THE USSR WINE!
        And ALL members of the government of the Russian Federation, who also admitted this guilt, imputed to them by the Goebbels-Hitlerites.
        Oh, they should all spit in the face! ...
    10. +2
      26 November 2020 12: 47
      But it was necessary to express and reasonably prove alternative points of view much earlier.

      Unfortunately, the decree of the Russian State Duma of November 26, 2010, which, again, is a purely political document, also made its bitter contribution to distorting the truth.

      Earlier it was impossible in any way and it can be called politics very remotely. Grandma, money - this is the reason for the current authorities lisping with pshekami. It was necessary, at the cost of lies and mockery of the souls of our soldiers who died during the Second World War, to appease the Poles by refusing the truth. It was necessary to obtain their consent for the construction of the gas pipeline. So they cajoled the enemies. I think this is pure betrayal.
    11. 0
      26 November 2020 23: 07
      Quote: rotmistr60
      For a long time to come, Russia will have to clean up the mess of the Gorbachev-Yeltsin period.

      And this gentleman probably collected a detachment in Katyn. lol
  2. +4
    26 November 2020 07: 22
    We did not draw conclusions from the history of the confrontation between Russia and the Polyakhia! It is impossible to leave this Russophobic quasi-state, to divide it between neighboring countries, otherwise they even bit the Ukrainian people en masse, infecting them with Russophobia as well!
  3. +5
    26 November 2020 07: 24
    Their indignation is understandable. Still, our historians were able to independently express their point of view on this problem. When all the archives are opened, the Poles will have nothing to say.
    1. +3
      26 November 2020 07: 29
      nikvic46-And they will not say anything-they will also lie and spit in the direction of Russia! Polyakhia, this political diagnosis is a form of chronic Russophobia at the gene level!
      1. +1
        26 November 2020 09: 31
        Quote: Thrifty
        And they will not say anything, they will also lie and spit in the direction of Russia!

        Just as they yell and lie about the TU-134, where the whole world can see their lies.
    2. -15
      26 November 2020 07: 39
      It looks like you didn't bother to get acquainted with the very essence of the problem. The documents (their copies) were transferred to the Polish side by Yeltsin. At the official level, both the current president and Medvedev acknowledged the fact of the shooting and condemned the Stalinist regime. Documents of "folder No. 1" are posted on the Rosarkhiv website. What alternative versions can we talk about? De facto a political order to annoy the "pshek". Denying the obvious is not good for our state in the foreign policy arena.
      1. +8
        26 November 2020 08: 15
        Folder N1 and its contents are forgeries fabricated by traitors and rebuilders headed by Yakovlev. Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to simply conduct an examination and officially announce this. For then all documents from our archives will be called into question. And there are many equally interesting things.
        1. +1
          26 November 2020 09: 34
          Quote: Pavel73
          Folder N1 and its contents are forgeries fabricated by traitors and rebuilders headed by Yakovlev.

          Yakovlev, who worked for "Prometheus" still existing in Canada.
      2. +7
        26 November 2020 08: 57
        Quote: Desperado
        Documents of "folder No. 1" are posted on the Rosarkhiv website.

        Have you seen these documents yourself? And the materials of the Burdenko commission? Or maybe there are some decisions of at least the district court? There are copies from copies of something unknown. Frankly speaking, there is not much faith in what was presented in this super-duper "folder number 1". Not only for me (I am not a historian), but for people who have this professional activity. Therefore, it is very frivolous to speak of these copies as "the essence of the problem". The history of the transfer of this folder from Gorbachev to Yeltsin is very, to put it mildly, murky. And people around this story are circling with a "difficult" reputation. In any case, you need to form your own opinion on the basis of something more durable than this folder. For example, on a court decision. And he is not ...
        But in principle, this is not the problem in Russia-Poland relations. How many Germans were cut by the French and vice versa, we never dreamed of. With what enthusiasm the British and the Spaniards, and the French, too, have been slaughtering each other for many centuries ... There are hundreds of thousands of victims on each side. But somehow today they manage to live in one union, and scandals about spilled blood during the Thirty Years' War are somehow not heard. Somehow the Europeans managed to build mutually beneficial relations on these seas of mutually shed blood. What can we say about ancient times, when the Germans were evicted from the territories that were taken over by the Poles and Czechs in 1945-46, according to various estimates, from 500 to 000 Germans were exterminated, not military, but everyone in a row. And this story is not exaggerated, like Katyn, neither by the Germans, nor by the Poles, nor by the Czechs. Apparently the Poles (Polish gentry) are sick with Russophobia, clinically sick ...
        1. +1
          26 November 2020 19: 08
          Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania are outposts against Russia. Accordingly, they are engaged in anti-Russian propaganda. The British are not going to fight the French, so there are no articles in the English / French press about the atrocities of the French / British.
      3. +2
        26 November 2020 19: 22
        "To deny the obvious is not good for our state in the foreign policy arena."
        ===
        What is the obviousness?
        The fact that even the European court in 2012 DID NOT FORMULATE THE LEGAL ACCOUNT OF THE USSR for the Katyn crime?
  4. +12
    26 November 2020 07: 30
    The Poles would have to repent for participating in the partition of Czechoslovakia together with Hitler after the Munich Agreement in 1938, it was then that Hitler got a taste of seizing foreign territories ... one might say Poland itself had a hand in organizing the Second World War ... repent, repent the Poles for this is.
    We will always remember how Poland refused to let the Red Army through its territory to stop Hitler and the blame for the deaths of millions of people in WWII also lies with Poland at that time.
    1. +6
      26 November 2020 08: 43
      To hell with her, with Czechoslovakia. It's not a pity, these were their games and Czechoslovakia was not very different from Poland at that time. Thief at the thief. The Czechs have not yet responded for the atrocities and art of the Czech corps in Russia. But Poland must answer for the cynical and cruel murder of captured Red Army soldiers. And I do not understand why this issue is not being raised.
    2. +4
      26 November 2020 09: 12
      And besides, we must not forget that the Poles fought against us on the side of the Third Reich. Soviet historiography is generously silent about this, and there were hundreds of thousands of them. And they committed crimes on our territory, and fell into captivity (tens of thousands). For me, it was a revelation when, 20 years ago, I accidentally overheard a conversation on a bus of an intelligent old woman who had been in the occupation during the war. She said that among the invaders were not only Germans, but also Finns, and even ... Poles! So if there are Polish citizens in Mednoe, we still need to figure out how and when they got there. And how many are there actually.
    3. +2
      26 November 2020 09: 36
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Poland itself had a hand in organizing the Second World War ... repent, repent of the Poles for this.

      And killed 80 Red Army soldiers in Polish concentration camps in 000.
  5. +5
    26 November 2020 07: 30
    Reproaches, accusations and claims can sound indefinitely from both sides.

    Nevertheless, the truth is the same, and it is that there would be no Poland and Poles as a nation in general, if not for the USSR ...
  6. -3
    26 November 2020 07: 33
    And the Poles seem to expect that we will cry and repent for what we have done?
    And I will say this to the Poles, if a Stella is erected at the Katyn cemetery with the inscription "We can repeat!" - then all of Russia will applaud this event standing!
    1. +6
      26 November 2020 07: 36
      Yes, our Poles were not shot and there are a lot of inconsistencies, but when an order comes in, you can prove anything.
    2. -3
      26 November 2020 07: 43
      Quote: Dmitry Makarov
      We can repeat

      Hurray patriot, and who will repeat that? Are you going on your couch on a new Polish campaign?
      1. +3
        26 November 2020 07: 49
        Are you like staying on the couch? Well then, they will come to you from the military police, and according to the laws of Wartime, they will be slapped under the fence for refusing to draft.
        1. +3
          26 November 2020 08: 27
          You are funny urashki, by God. What a nafig call when Vova himself repents and bends, repents and bends. About the policemen spanking under the fence, according to the laws of wartime, have you watched new-model films? Here you are not there in 41st ,, For the Soviet Motherland and Comrade Stalin ,,
  7. +11
    26 November 2020 07: 33
    And why be surprised at the reaction of the Poles, if our leadership itself admitted that the Poles in Katyn were shot by the Soviet Chekists? The same Medvedev, for example, openly said in an interview that the Stalinist regime was "criminal."
    1. +4
      26 November 2020 19: 26
      "The same Medvedev, for example, openly said in an interview that the Stalinist regime was" criminal. "
      ===
      And the most important "crime" of the Stalinist regime is the defeat of Hitlerite Germany!
      1. -2
        27 November 2020 00: 13
        Quote: Yuri Kabaev
        And the most important "crime" of the Stalinist regime is the defeat of Hitlerite Germany!

        This is what the West will never forgive the Russians and Russia, and Stalin in particular. After all, Hitler was raised specifically for the destruction of the USSR, so much money and effort was invested in it, and the USSR, under the leadership of Stalin, won and after the war became even stronger.
  8. +8
    26 November 2020 07: 36
    The USSR has nothing to do with the shooting of the Poles in Katyn, and only the traitor Gorbachev managed to organize a fake investigation, and the investigators who falsified the case do not even have the conscience to recognize the work on order.
    1. +2
      26 November 2020 07: 41
      I absolutely agree with you, the very fact that they were not shot with our weapons speaks volumes ...
      1. +1
        26 November 2020 07: 49
        It seems like they even found newspaper clippings of 1943 in their pockets, but the investigators who were given the order stupidly ignored everything. There was simply no real proof.
        1. -6
          26 November 2020 10: 08
          In total, 3.184 documents were found in Katyn (letters, postcards, diaries, scraps of newspapers); all of them had dates no later than May 6, 1940, Wikipedia says, and nothing about 43 years old ...
          1. +4
            26 November 2020 19: 38
            Wikipedia is certainly cool, believe it and continue. They try to keep silent about the 1943 newspaper, but the truth tends to break through.
            By the way, do you believe that before shooting the NKVD, replacing the weapon with German, did not think about ropes and newspaper clippings? But most importantly: in 1940 did the NKVD know that the Germans would reach Smolensk?
          2. +1
            26 November 2020 19: 45
            By the way, the falsification of the case by Soviet investigators is no longer a secret. Even in the part of the place of execution (prison), the witness gave evidence on purpose, lying, there are a lot of programs about it. Inconsistencies on inconsistencies. By the way, it seems like the troupes got money there, which was going around after the execution. Read: https://amarok-man.livejournal.com/189244.html and believe me it's more interesting than Wikipedia.
          3. 0
            27 November 2020 00: 34
            and you did not know that they write Wikipedia to the CIA?
      2. -2
        26 November 2020 07: 53
        Not talking about anything
        1. +1
          26 November 2020 08: 00
          What was the standard weapon of the NKVD in 1940?
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            26 November 2020 09: 50
            What was the standard weapon of the NKVD in 1940?

            TT probably. And what follows from this?
            1. +2
              26 November 2020 09: 55
              TT and Nagant.
              And what follows from this?
              - what if the NKVDs were shot, most would be shot from this particular weapon with a caliber of 7,62mm
              1. 0
                26 November 2020 11: 06
                - what if the NKVDs were shot, most would be shot from this particular weapon with a caliber of 7,62mm

                Logical.
                And if the Germans were shot?
                1. +1
                  26 November 2020 11: 11
                  the caliber of the pistols among the Germans was very diverse - 6,35mm, 7,65mm, 9mm
                  1. 0
                    26 November 2020 11: 15
                    the caliber of the pistols among the Germans was very diverse - 6,35mm, 7,65mm, 9mm

                    But would the weapon be German anyway? Is it logical?
                    1. 0
                      26 November 2020 11: 18
                      if we're talking about shooting with a pistol, then yes
                      1. +1
                        26 November 2020 11: 55
                        if we're talking about shooting with a pistol, then yes

                        And if the Germans were shot, but so that it would look like the NKVD?

                        Goebbels and Himmler decided to pull off a provocation, summoned Gersdorf and Butz, instructed them to find several thousand Poles, shoot them and bury them near Smolensk.
                        But to arrange things in such a way that the NKVD would think.

                        That is, a German hoax, as stated.

                        What shells would then be found in the pit?
                      2. +1
                        26 November 2020 12: 18
                        And if the Germans were shot, but so that it would look like the NKVD?
                        - why should they do it? if we take as a basis that the Germans shot the Poles in 41, then the Germans went to Moscow at full speed and they did not need such provocations, they are one step away from victory, and the winners are not judged, and the Poles are untermensch. And they carry out their "investigation" in 43, after Stalingrad, when their status of "winners" was called into question.
                        Now let's consider the question if the Polish prisoners of war were shot by the NKVD officers - why shoot the Poles with foreign weapons? Or did the evil geniuses Beria and Stalin know that the Germans would reach Moscow? well, this is absurd ...
                        find several thousand Poles, shoot them and bury them near Smolensk.
                        - no need to look for anyone, ours did not have time to take out the Polish prisoners of war from the camps, and the Germans just took the watch, so to speak
                      3. -5
                        26 November 2020 13: 04
                        this is a long-chewed topic.
                        the NKVD was armed with German pistols.
                        Walters, Mauser and Browning chambered for 6,35 and 7,65 cartridges had a significant distribution, including in the NKVD, German cartridges were purchased, and their own were produced



                        Then there was no such monotony in the weapons of the NKVD, which everyone was accustomed to seeing during the mass production of PM.
                        Weapons were purchased differently and were also used, the USSR's production range was limited.
                        By itself, the caliber and type of cartridges and bullets does not prove anything - neither that the Germans shot, nor that ours.
                        The 6.35 cartridge during the Second World War in the Wehrmacht was also not the most common, which is obvious.
                      4. 0
                        26 November 2020 13: 19
                        the NKVD was armed with German pistols.
                        - this is true, but foreign pistols as a standard were the "second" weapon, in addition to revolvers and TT, either from the authorities, or from operatives or especially distinguished workers. It is logical that the NKVD officer will not carry out mass executions with such a pistol ... it is better not to remember about "Korovin" - clearly not a firing weapon ... hi
                      5. -2
                        26 November 2020 13: 28
                        here there is the second photo - a list of employees and their weapons.
                        one for each.
                        shoot from TT in large quantities - the brush will hurt for a month.
                        Walter's recoil is much softer.
                        what kind of argument you like, and choose this.
                        but in reality it is very simple, in itself this is not a proof.
                        there were weapons and cartridges on both sides.
                        but not a single document confirming that the Poles were alive before the arrival of the Germans is much more serious.
                      6. -1
                        26 November 2020 14: 00
                        but not a single document confirming that the Poles were alive before the arrival of the Germans
                        - as well as those who confirm that they were not alive almost no and they are very doubtful, or maybe we do not see documents confirming that the Poles were alive when the Germans arrived, for the sake of the "official" version?
                      7. +1
                        26 November 2020 19: 29
                        "to shoot from TT in large quantities, the brush will hurt for a month.
                        Walter's recoil is much softer. "
                        ===
                        So what?
                      8. 0
                        28 November 2020 02: 37
                        For the sake of a couple of hundred pocket Mauser or Browning in the hands of NKVD operatives, NOBODY will start ammunition production. Easier to buy. Because The consumption is scanty. And for the mass executions, as the Poles say, many thousands of chal-k, dozens of pistols are needed (due to failures and breakdowns) and many thousands of cartridges. And ask yourself the question: Why waste the currency, which at all times was not easy to get on other people's cartridges, if you have your own service weapon? And they did not find a single shell case from Soviet pistols and revolvers in the pits. If you think with your head, and not with the opposite place, then everything is clear and understandable - the Germans shot their enemies, the Poles, and then used it for political purposes. And there is nothing more to talk about, except for the very strange and anti-state behavior of the State Duma of the Russian Federation in this matter and many others.
                      9. -1
                        26 November 2020 13: 56
                        Cartridge 6.35 during the Second World War in the Wehrmacht was also not the most common
                        - What does the Wehrmacht have to do with it? 6,35mm pistols are not military weapons
                      10. +1
                        26 November 2020 16: 11
                        In the execution in Katyn at the tribunal, the Soviet side accused one of the engineering army units of the Germans, which at that moment was stationed in this place
                      11. -1
                        27 November 2020 08: 54
                        Well, yes, only our accusation turned out to be incompetent, the commander of this unit was summoned from the German side, but he proved that he took office after the events described, and the previous commander died. And there was some kind of connected part.
                      12. 0
                        26 November 2020 19: 28
                        "Walters, Mauser and Browning chambered for 6,35 and 7,65 had significant distribution, including in the NKVD,"
                        ===
                        So what?
                      13. 0
                        26 November 2020 13: 17
                        Now let's consider the question if the Polish prisoners of war were shot by the NKVD officers - why shoot the Poles with foreign weapons? Or did the evil geniuses Beria and Stalin know that the Germans would reach Moscow? well, this is absurd ...

                        And why do they now drive Gelenvagens and not Ladakhs? wink

                        High-quality weapons, I liked it, according to the report card again it is necessary:



                        Not according to the report card too laughing

                        On the results of the search at Yezhov's

                        "To the head of the 3rd special department of the NKVD
                        Colonel Comrade Panyushkin
                        // __ REPORT __ //

                        I am reporting on some facts that were discovered during the search in the apartment of Nikolai Ivanovich Yezhov, arrested on warrant 2950 of April 10, 1939, in the Kremlin.
                        ...
                        2. During the search, I seized pistols "Walter" No. 623573, caliber 6,35; "Browning" caliber 6,35 # 104799 - were hidden behind books in bookcases in different places. In my writing desk, in my office, I found a Walter pistol of 7,65 caliber, No. 777615, loaded, with a broken striker striker.
                        ...
                        Pom. Head of the 3rd Special Section of the NKVD Captain of State Security
                        Shchepilov.
                        11 April 1939 of the Year. "
                      14. 0
                        26 November 2020 13: 24
                        High-quality weapons, I liked it, according to the report card again it is necessary:
                        - as a second pistol, shooting hundreds of people from what will you shoot? from a standard revolver to which cartridges were heaps or from a Browning - an indicator that you are a difficult NKVD officer?
                      15. -2
                        26 November 2020 13: 33
                        as a second pistol, shooting hundreds of people from what will you shoot? from a standard revolver to which cartridges were heaps or from a Browning - an indicator that you are a difficult NKVD officer?

                        High quality.
                        Which has a minimum of misfires, delays, and barrel overheating.
                        You can save money on training, but you need to go to an event with a reliable barrel.

                        And what is there to save - a few thousand rounds?
                        For a serious office, this is not money. bully
                      16. -1
                        26 November 2020 13: 49
                        Everyone has their own opinion...
                      17. 0
                        26 November 2020 14: 02
                        Everyone has their own opinion...

                        Well, it hasn't changed among professionals over the decades.

                      18. -1
                        26 November 2020 14: 08
                        where does special forces and modern realities have to do with it? The USSR in the 30s and 40s is a completely different picture
                      19. -1
                        26 November 2020 19: 33
                        Two pros in the firing squad agreed.
                      20. 0
                        27 November 2020 06: 24
                        Anonymous Instagram blog? FSB officer? Laughed heartily.
                      21. 0
                        27 November 2020 08: 16
                        Anonymous Instagram blog? FSB officer? Laughed heartily.

                        Yes, there is nothing terrible in this.
                        Even arms America is not shy about purchasing an Italian or Swiss pistol with a service pistol.
                      22. 0
                        27 November 2020 11: 50
                        Anonymous Instagram blog? FSB officer? Laughed heartily.

                        Running with the Glocks and the rest, just on the way. laughing

                        From the 9th minute.

                      23. -1
                        27 November 2020 08: 56
                        What kind of professionals? Those who have Stalin the villain? I am afraid that there are questions regarding Stalin, but the Nazis in the Smolensk region alone killed more than 500 thousand people. That is, the question of the motives of the Germans is simply not worth it, they soaked people in batches, for any reason.
                      24. +1
                        27 November 2020 11: 53
                        What kind of professionals?

                        Modern. Under the cut, read.

                        If you are lazy, a short summary:

                        The colonel of the TsSN FSB explained why the special forces "Alpha" use foreign weapons.
                        ...
                        The current colonel of the FSB TsSN, leading the popular anonymous Instagram blog, told about why this is happening.
                        The officer's answer turned out to be very laconic - "if they use it, then it is better."


                        Don't believe the lyrics above the video. wink
                      25. 0
                        27 November 2020 13: 06
                        Sorry, but a typical NKVD officer is not a professional pistol at all. That was not his task. As for the Katyn corpses, they are all with German bullets fired according to German methods. The Katyn provocation itself is just one of the many attempts by the fascists to pass off the mass executions of Soviet citizens for the crimes of the NKVD, which caused everyone in the world, if not a smile, then disgust. It's just that the Polish degenerates in London raised a howl, although there is no reason to believe that the Poles are somehow special and the Germans could not kill them in the same way as Soviet citizens.
                      26. 0
                        27 November 2020 14: 24
                        Sorry, but a typical NKVD officer is not a professional pistol at all.

                        I agree. The typical officer is not.
                        But again, this is the main tool for a firing squad employee.
                        Like an ax for a carpenter, a guitar for a musician, a hockey stick.

                        Of course, here you have to choose the best.
                      27. 0
                        27 November 2020 14: 33
                        It's just that Polish degenerates in London raised a howl, although there is no reason to believe that the Poles are somehow special and the Germans could not kill them in the same way as Soviet citizens.

                        Why would the Poles blame the USSR? If the Germans are to blame, blame everything on them to the heap and all the cases.

                        They just knew the truth from the very beginning. Bullets and casings are nonsense.
                        The corpses themselves are the best witnesses.
                        The fact is that more than 2 thousand bodies could be identified.
                        The Germans invited relatives for identification, who knew perfectly well that their soldiers were in SOVIET captivity.

                        How did the brigadier generals Mechislav Smoravinsky and Bronislav Bogatyrevich get into the pit?
                        Did Skorzeny and his assistants steal from the Soviet camp?

                        PS Just don't need these tales again, like they didn't have time to evacuate, such things were done in the first place, and before the capture of Smolensk it was more than a month.
                      28. -1
                        27 November 2020 06: 20
                        You are either clinical or simply Russophobe. The TT was one of the most reliable pistols in WWII.
                      29. 0
                        27 November 2020 12: 05
                        You are either clinical or simply Russophobe. The TT was one of the most reliable pistols in WWII.

                        I have no doubt that Browning made reliable pistols. laughing
                        https://topwar.ru/29323-vse-li-nam-rasskazali-o-pistolete-tt.html

                        The question is, were the first models comfortable? winked
                      30. +1
                        27 November 2020 08: 59
                        Do you even know how the execution is carried out, and who does it? There are specially selected people for this job. No high-ranking NKVD officers will shoot anyone, especially on the territory of their own sanatorium, which was Katyn. In general, this is a very crowded place, in which there could be no mass executions and burials.
                      31. -2
                        27 November 2020 11: 56
                        Do you even know how the execution is carried out, and who does it? There are specially selected people for this job.

                        This is now common knowledge. Commandant's office. Commandant's assistant Anikushkin from The Moment of Truth would do this in his life.

                        The most famous and the main one is also well known. Blokhin, commandant of the Moscow Kremlin. He was in charge of Katyn too.
                      32. -2
                        27 November 2020 12: 02
                        especially on the territory of their own sanatorium, which was Katyn

                        Just the opposite. Everything was done in fenced-in special areas. Where else?

                        On the Butovo training ground (the famous Kommunarka) there are holes 100 meters from the sanatorium.

                        In the equally famous Kolpashevo, right on the territory of the district department of the NKVD. They really didn’t calculate, they equipped it close to the coast. wink
                      33. 0
                        27 November 2020 13: 16
                        And it never occurred to you that in 1940, the sanatorium was there, and no one would have allowed burials there, and in 1941 it was not there, there were buildings in which the German part was located, which had everything don't give a damn? Simple obvious thing.

                        The special territory can be perfectly done in places where there will be no witnesses. In Russia, there are no problems with this at all, even in the European part.

                        But if your commandant of the Kremlin is engaged in executions, then I don't even know. The police only had to receive / change a passport.

                        And once again, the Germans were engaged in genocide on Soviet territory, no evidence or motives are required to kill the Poles by them. The Poles are generally an insignificant incident in the big picture, and I am disgusted that there is more screeching around the several thousand cowards who ran to surrender than there is talk of Soviet citizens.

                        But why the USSR should shoot them is completely incomprehensible.
                      34. 0
                        27 November 2020 13: 53
                        But if your commandant of the Kremlin is engaged in executions, then I don't even know. The police only had to receive / change a passport.

                        I was wrong, I admit. On the "machine" wrote.
                        Head of the commandant department of the AHFU (administrative and economic financial management) of the NKGB of the USSR. That was the correct title of his position.
                      35. +1
                        27 November 2020 14: 17
                        The Poles are generally an insignificant incident in the big picture, and I am disgusted that there is more screeching around the several thousand cowards who ran to surrender than there is talk of Soviet citizens.

                        This is not the point. For me, too, secular people are 1000 times more important than Poles.

                        The whole reason for the screeching is that the shooting of prisoners of war is a military crime.
                        And someone should be responsible for it.
                      36. 0
                        27 November 2020 18: 28
                        Moreover, having formed Anders' army a little later ...
                      37. 0
                        28 November 2020 02: 47
                        And when was the sanatorium equipped there? Maybe much later, not knowing what lies in the ground? Also, have you been to cemeteries? Probably noticed the smell. But this is from single graves and bodies lying in coffins. And with mass burial in pits, everything is much worse. The smell will last for at least six months, and most likely much longer. And what - they are such lovers of sniffing the stench of the corpse and at the same time teaching their children to it - after all, the pioneer camp is also nearby, hundreds of meters from the pits.
                      38. 0
                        26 November 2020 13: 38
                        there were also plenty of cartridges for Browning.
                        and he was not the second pistol.
                        not to mention the fact that several thousand people could have been handed over from storage separately for execution - there are several thousand people there, you can't do it quickly anyway, and then the service life is very worn out, the reliability drops.
                        By the way, judging by the testimony, they did so.
                      39. -1
                        26 November 2020 13: 48
                        could be issued separately from storage
                        - could, but why give out foreign women when the revolvers were heaps?
                      40. 0
                        26 November 2020 14: 03
                        who cares?
                        a revolver is inconvenient for shooting, for example. it is inconvenient to recharge.
                        resource is less. recoil more. personal preferences. a thousand reasons.
                        Well I write, explanations for one or the other option, you can easily find explanations for all cases.
                        the very fact that both sides had such weapons in sufficient quantity does not allow the use of weapons as proof of something in itself
                      41. -1
                        26 November 2020 14: 20
                        does not allow the presence of a weapon to be used as proof of something in itself
                        - I agree not a proof, but an argument ...
                      42. 0
                        26 November 2020 15: 48
                        It is almost the same as now to believe that if the criminals left in a BMW, then they are Germans.
                        We need confirmation that the Poles were alive after the occupation of the territory by the Germans - this will be proof.
                      43. 0
                        27 November 2020 09: 54
                        That is, the USSR must justify itself, but the Germans, who killed the Slavs in millions, no? Well, you can immediately see who you are drowning for.
                      44. 0
                        27 November 2020 10: 55
                        The Germans were tried for this murder at the Nuremberg Tribunal, if you don't know.
                        I advise you to inquire about the verdict.
                      45. 0
                        27 November 2020 13: 25
                        For what murder? No one was condemned specifically for Katyn, since the possible executor died, and the commander who took his place was able to prove in court that he could not participate in the events described, since he received the post later.

                        And for the rest, well, yes, the main ones were punished, but why some German regiment should be separately condemned for shooting the Poles, and another German regiment who led the camp for Soviet prisoners of war, that is, also carried out genocide, most likely, no one I was looking for, I am not talking about lieutenants and hauptmans from the sonder teams, those who were not caught and hanged even in wartime, it was simply pointless to catch them by name. But, apparently, the Poles are special.
                      46. 0
                        27 November 2020 15: 56
                        Judged and condemned are different terms.
                      47. +4
                        26 November 2020 19: 34
                        "The revolver is inconvenient for shooting, for example, it is inconvenient to reload.
                        the resource is less. recoil more. personal preferences. a thousand reasons. "
                        ===
                        We understand, we understand: the pros are the pros!
                        It's hard to argue.
                      48. +2
                        27 November 2020 06: 26
                        a revolver is inconvenient for shooting, for example. it is inconvenient to recharge. And as an executioner, will you be in a hurry during the execution?
                      49. The comment was deleted.
                      50. 0
                        27 November 2020 13: 19
                        For what executions? In law enforcement agencies, as a rule, one is shot; accordingly, all formalities are observed in relation to him, the sentence is carried out. 1 A bullet in the back of the head is required, in case of a misfire, spin the drum.
                      51. 0
                        27 November 2020 14: 51
                        For what executions? In law enforcement agencies, as a rule, one is shot; accordingly, all formalities are observed in relation to him, the sentence is carried out. 1 A bullet in the back of the head is required, in case of a misfire, spin the drum.

                        In modern times, too, a pistol. In Belarus, for example PB 6P9. But this is because at night in the forest.

                        https://mignews.com.ua/avtor/intervyu/1084782.html

                        http://knigosite.org/library/read/63791
                      52. 0
                        28 November 2020 02: 53
                        The revolver is just a very reliable revolver. If this were not the case, it would not have been in service for more than 60 years. But the pre-war pocket pistols already had significant wear and tear and had low destructive power. Pathologists have repeatedly noted that bullets with a caliber of 6,35 and 7,65 mm from pocket pistols, including those from Browning, often ricocheted off the bones of the skull without causing a fatal wound.
                      53. 0
                        26 November 2020 14: 18
                        - could, but why give out foreign women when the revolvers were heaps?

                        And why do they buy shtatovskie ankle boots now, when they have heaps of their own?

                        For an ordinary officer, a pistol is needed twice a year for shooting. And to them it was the same tool as a hammer to a carpenter. And it should be comfortable and reliable.

                        Now the shops are full of pneumatic copies of the pistols. Just for fun, hold the TT and Colt 1911 in your hands.
                        Not to mention Walter. wink
                      54. -1
                        26 November 2020 14: 21
                        go back to the 30s and 40s in the USSR
                        I talked to TT, I didn't have a chance with Colt, Walter is almost a toy ... bully
                      55. -1
                        26 November 2020 14: 39
                        go back to the 30s and 40s in the USSR
                        I talked to TT, I didn't have a chance with Colt, Walter is almost a toy ... bully

                        I also compare the pistols of those times.

                        TT is a perversion of weapons.
                        No ergonomics. The handle is short, the little finger hangs, the angle between the barrel and the handle is almost straight, when firing, the joint twists, narrow, unbalanced in weight ...

                        For a one-time job, a killer will do, for a mass execution - the worst of what happened.
                      56. +1
                        26 November 2020 19: 35
                        "For a one-time job of a killer, it will do, for mass execution - the worst of what happened."
                        ===
                        Yes!
                        We understand your professional difficulties!
                      57. 0
                        26 November 2020 19: 45
                        For a one-time job of a killer it will do, for mass execution - the worst of what happened. "
                        ===
                        Yes!
                        We understand your professional difficulties!

                        There is an opinion that the killers of the 90s loved TT.
                        Some may conclude that because of its convenience and combat properties.

                        In fact, due to the large amount produced, not all of the barrels were brought into the cartridge case.
                      58. 0
                        27 November 2020 06: 31
                        Just all were brought in, there were many decommissioned, but not utilized, which walked in the Czech Republic in the 90s.
                      59. 0
                        28 November 2020 02: 59
                        I had to not only hold the combat ones, but also shoot them. So, despite the smaller caliber and recoil from Walter PPK and other similar pocket Mauser, CHZET, Astr, PM, etc. it is more convenient to shoot from large army pistols Colt, TT, Beretta 92, Stechkin. They are heavier and the recoil does not hit the hand as well, and the grip is more comfortable.
                      60. +2
                        26 November 2020 19: 31
                        "to shoot from TT in large quantities, the brush will hurt for a month.
                        Walter's recoil is much softer. "
                        ===
                        Well, the executioner recommends Walter!
                      61. -5
                        27 November 2020 15: 20
                        Quote: faiver
                        from a standard revolver to which cartridges were heaps or from a Browning - an indicator that you are a difficult NKVD officer?

                        The NKVDeshniks also had Thomson's submachine guns, according to the logic of the jingoistic patriots in Katyn the Poles were shot by the Americans.
                      62. 0
                        26 November 2020 19: 30
                        "as a result of a search at Yezhov's"
                        ==
                        So, did Yezhov himself shoot?
                      63. 0
                        26 November 2020 19: 38
                        "as a result of a search at Yezhov's"
                        ==
                        So, did Yezhov himself shoot?

                        It's about whether the employees could have had foreign weapons.
                        As you can see, we could and loved. TT Yezhov didn't keep anything at home.
                      64. +2
                        26 November 2020 19: 48
                        "- why should they do this? If we take as a basis that the Germans shot the Poles in 41, then the Germans went full steam to Moscow and they did not need such provocations, they are one step away from victory, and they do not judge the winners, and the Poles are Untermensch, and they carry out their "investigation" in 43, after Stalingrad, when their status of "winners" was called into question.
                        Now let's consider the question if the Polish prisoners of war were shot by the NKVD officers - why shoot the Poles with foreign weapons? Or did the evil geniuses Beria and Stalin know that the Germans would reach Moscow? well, this is absurd ... "
                        Are you talking absurd? And why should the USSR shoot Poles with German weapons near Smolensk in 1940 if we were preparing to fight on foreign territory? Do you have any logic at all?
                        The Poles were shot, and in 1943 they decided to promote this story, because they had already begun to lose.
                      65. -1
                        26 November 2020 20: 30
                        Who are you talking to?
                      66. -1
                        27 November 2020 09: 58
                        Poles, most likely, were shot because they were building a secret command post of an army group, which was right next door. The Germans did this on a regular basis during the construction of secret facilities. You never know, the prisoner will run away, tell that in the forest some kind of concrete fortress was built. Unacceptable, so everyone is at an expense upon completion.
                      67. 0
                        28 November 2020 02: 26
                        By the way, having seized Warsaw, the Germans carried out a mopping-up of humanitarian intelligentsia, writers, poets, journalists, politicians, etc. and Polish officials, having shot more than 20000 of these "masters of thought" in a suburban forest. Their plan was to cleanse the territory of Poland by 1952 from the Poles. And here the officers are potential partisans, carriers of the idea of ​​"Greater Poland from Mozha to Mozha." Of course they were cleared out. And then someone in Germany came up with the idea to use these corpses as a wedge to split the allies in the anti-Hitler coalition. Burdenko's commission investigated everything and made unambiguous and correct conclusions. And do not assent to the enemies of Russia and the liberals, repeating enemy nonsense.
    2. -8
      26 November 2020 07: 47
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      The USSR has nothing to do with the shooting of Poles in Katyn

      The official website of Rosarkhiv has published documents from a special folder in the archive of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee concerning the Katyn tragedy.

      According to the head of Rosarkhiv, Andrei Artizov, the official publication on the Rosarkhiv website of documents from the archive of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee concerning the Katyn tragedy indicates that Russia is demonstrating absolute openness in the issue of the execution of Polish servicemen in 1940 in the USSR.
      1. +8
        26 November 2020 08: 00
        The official website of Rosarkhiv has published documents from a special folder in the archive of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee concerning the Katyn tragedy.

        It is believed that some of the important documents were falsified (cleaned up) by Mr.-Comrade Aleksandr Nikolayevich Yakovlev ... not without reason he was at one time the head of the propaganda department of the CPSU Central Committee. hi
        Since October 1988 - Chairman of the Commission of the Politburo of the Central Committee for additional study of materials related to the repressions of the 1930-1940s and early 1950s.
      2. +2
        26 November 2020 19: 35
        "The official website of Rosarkhiv has published documents from a special folder in the archive of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee concerning the Katyn tragedy."
        ===
        Everything would be fine, only there is a lot of falsification.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  9. +14
    26 November 2020 07: 39
    The Poles don’t repent for the killed prisoners of war, and they didn’t even allow them to just erect a memorial cross, but we allow them to erect an entire memorial. to build a memorial in memory of the Red Army soldiers killed in Polish concentration camps.
  10. The comment was deleted.
    1. +10
      26 November 2020 08: 12
      The grandchildren of Jozef Pilsudski and Chamberlain are russophobic better than their ancestors, presenting more and more new demands to Russia ... why should I satisfy them at the expense of my taxes ... and they would not have gone in the direction of Hitler's resting place. hi
      1. -1
        27 November 2020 09: 59
        The funny thing is that no one pays for Katyn, and will not, because in reality they will not give money away, they will not understand this at all in Russia, and you can also recall full of claims.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. 0
    26 November 2020 08: 02
    Russophobia in Poland has always been and will always be, just like in Ukraine, there is nothing to pay attention to, let them crow further))
  13. +6
    26 November 2020 08: 03
    History is the science of fine tuning. More from medicine. So to speak, the overall health of the body is important. We do not have everything "ice". According to the principle "tell the fool to pray to God, he will break his forehead", in defense of the real feat of the people in the Second World War, we can reach the point that our history of war will begin like a film by Ozerov, from Stalingrad. The rest can be easily summed up as "belittling". What was going on in Katyn not only needs, but requires an investigation with all thoroughness. In this situation, it is the most powerful anti-Soviet and anti-Russian bogey, since Russia, the USSR, the Russian Empire, both for us and in the "west" are a single whole. Poles will "deny and blame". There is no way out because the historical debate is the British judicial system - the essence of the precedent. Having defeated once and taken away the Sverdream (1612), we forever became their enemies. Neither their behavior, nor our steps are important ... Everything is past-war. Having once admitted our guilt in the Katyn tragedy, we are soiled forever. And they are perfectly woven into the picture of the "cannibal empire". For no matter how much you go to church, you will kick one kitten and the Antichrist. But ... don't we care about their opinion? Well, let's be honest. Only what we believe in and with which we agree is of value. We are not the Baltics to "podmahivat" in full. We are not Poland, we do not have a "defeatist" complex and an evil urge to take revenge. And what do they think? So they built their booth for a lot of money, so that it shone beautifully.
  14. 0
    26 November 2020 08: 03
    Well, expel these Poles, let the normal ones be sent, if they are, of course.
  15. +10
    26 November 2020 08: 05
    Somewhat "touches" is some shielding of the current political figures who took part in the "exposure of the regime"
    All dogs are hanged only on a marked and drunk. As if the current ones have nothing to do with it.
    1. +1
      26 November 2020 09: 28
      Quote: The Siberian Barber
      All dogs are hanged only on a marked and drunk. As if the current ones have nothing to do with it.

      so even here, on VO, for some, everything that was done before 2014 is not OH, this is Eltsin!, some of 95 are attributed to the USSR ...
  16. +7
    26 November 2020 08: 17
    The sad thing is that the Third Reich has been destroyed for 75 years and their ideas and propaganda have been living in gifted minds until now. And everyone is trying to accuse the USSR or Russia of some kind of crime. I think they deliberately do all this to hide their crimes (for example, the Anglo-Polish pact of holding a certain country that would threaten the Baltic interests of Poland, or how the British gave Czechoslovakia to the Germans and Poland treacherously tore off their piece from there, or how Britain set Japan against the United States. ..)
  17. +2
    26 November 2020 08: 19
    Though I am glad that they have finally begun to think without regard to European opinion.
  18. +4
    26 November 2020 08: 22
    Not being criminals, we call ourselves criminals, we repent, then we get.
  19. +12
    26 November 2020 08: 24
    But I don’t understand what is it if the NKVD even shot these Poles?
    They were officers of the enemy army. Moreover, they were guilty of the destruction of our citizens, including prisoners of war in their camps. We acted according to the established custom of that time.
    What were the "democratic" states doing in their colonies, for example? Generally genocide. Why are there colonies, what did they do to our people during the intervention!
    But we cannot answer them even half.
    Of course, we are subhuman, where can we be.
    1. +2
      26 November 2020 09: 21
      ... But I don’t understand what’s it if even the NKVD shot these Poles?

      The fact is that at that time there were international conventions, the Geneva on the rules for the treatment of prisoners of war, and the Hague on the laws and customs of war, both of them interpret the shooting of prisoners of war as a war crime.
      hi
      1. -1
        26 November 2020 09: 57
        So the USSR did not sign these conventions ...
        1. +4
          26 November 2020 10: 15
          Irrelevant
          According to the decision of the Nuremberg Tribunal, the implementation of these conventions was mandatory for all participants in hostilities, as part of the laws generally accepted in the world.
          Moreover, the effect of the conventions extends not only to interstate, but also to other conflicts, in which no one signed anything at all.
          All modern courts in such cases, by the way, also directly refer to this decision of the tribunal.
          1. 0
            26 November 2020 14: 08
            Quote: Avior
            According to the decision of the Nuremberg Tribunal, the implementation of these conventions was binding on all

            Well, like, the tribunal was in 1947, and the execution was presumably in 1940. Then about this tribunal was not known even in Nuremberg.
            1. +4
              26 November 2020 16: 08
              The Tribunal decided that at that time it was also a generally accepted international rule.
              After all, the fascists were tried for crimes by these decisions long before 1947.
              The decisions of the tribunal in the world are recognized quite legally, no one disputes them.
        2. 0
          27 November 2020 18: 04
          Declaration.
          The undersigned People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs of the USSR hereby declares that the USSR accedes to the Convention on Ameliorating the Fate of Prisoners of War, Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, concluded in Geneva on July 27.07.1929, XNUMX
          In witness whereof, the People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs, duly authorized for this, signed this Declaration of Accession.
          According to the decree of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR dated 18.05.1930/XNUMX/XNUMX, this accession is final and does not need further ratification.
          Done in Moscow on 25.08.1931. Signature: Litvinov.
          TsGAOR USSR, fund 9501, inventory 5, storage unit 7, sheet 22.
    2. -1
      26 November 2020 10: 04
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      But I don’t understand what is it if the NKVD even shot these Poles?

      Everything is correct. These were not just "Polish officers", they were officers who committed actions (crimes) against the USSR. But...
      Why take on what you didn't do?
    3. 0
      26 November 2020 19: 43
      “But I don’t understand, what is it if even the NKVD shot these Poles?
      They were officers of the enemy army. Moreover, they were guilty of the destruction of our citizens, including the prisoners of war in their camps. "
      ===
      About 4 thousand Poles were shot, who:
      1. They committed war crimes during the military aggression of Poland against the Soviet Republic in 1919-20. They had fun there to the fullest. It is a pity that Tukhachevsky turned out to be a complete military mediocrity and did not manage to defeat the then Polish army and did not punish these Polish war criminals.
      2. Destroyed Red Army prisoners in numerous concentration camps in Poland.
      3. The Poles who distinguished themselves in punitive campaigns against the population of the occupied territories of Western Belarus and Western Ukraine.
      4. Organized numerous terrorist acts of the White Guards and their own terrorists in the border territories of the USSR.
  20. 0
    26 November 2020 08: 37
    Kiso was offended ...
  21. +6
    26 November 2020 08: 43
    And a completely unpleasant moment for them is the mention of the mass destruction of Soviet prisoners of war in Polish concentration camps after the war of 1919-1921 voiced there. So after all, not long before the destruction of the image of Poland as an "eternal victim" ...


    We need to make this widely publicized with documentary evidence and put it on the web ...
  22. +3
    26 November 2020 08: 53
    There are still enough questions about the Katyn case, but ................ when our people admitted their participation, it seemed to the Poles a little, they want to squeeze an apology out of this situation every year. To receive moral and material benefits millennium.
  23. +3
    26 November 2020 08: 57
    We need to remind them of 1612 more ... In Russian-Polish history there are a lot of grievances, but too little disinterested friendship ..
  24. +4
    26 November 2020 09: 03
    The destruction of the Poles in Katyn by the USSR has yet to be proven!
    But the content and destruction of captured Red Army soldiers in concentration camps in Poland in the twenties is already a historical fact !!! am am
    And for some reason, there is no desire of Poles to repent for this. angry
    Churchill's one word is true: Poles are the hyenas of Europe! am am
  25. +4
    26 November 2020 09: 05
    as far as I know, 9 and 7,65-mm casings were found there, and the hands of the killed Poles were tied with twine, which was not produced in the USSR at that time
    1. +5
      26 November 2020 09: 23
      there were found casings of caliber 9 and 7,65 mm
      - in the bodies, as it were, there were bullets, 6,35mm were also
    2. +2
      26 November 2020 11: 59
      with a twine, the story is incomprehensible
      in the report of the NKVD commission we are talking about paper twine, in the report of the Burdenko commission - about a twisted cord.
      What kind of cord, by whom it was produced, where did it come from that in the USSR this was not produced and was not purchased, who researched no details anywhere.
      samples of twine - there are no ropes in the case either.
  26. -3
    26 November 2020 09: 08
    Quote: Pavel73
    Folder N1 and its contents are forgeries fabricated by traitors and rebuilders headed by Yakovlev. Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to simply conduct an examination and officially announce this. For then all documents from our archives will be called into question. And there are many equally interesting things.


    Denying the obvious is the trend these days. ))) Ie original documents are not enough? However ... http://katyn.ru/index.php?go=Pages&in=view&id=42
    1. +1
      26 November 2020 19: 44
      "Ie the original documents are not enough?"
      ==
      Are these originals or fakes?
  27. +4
    26 November 2020 09: 08
    "Polish diplomats" is already nonsense. Therefore, what kind of "indignation" can there be among those who live with hatred and thirst for revenge (it is not clear just why) towards the people of the host country? Why cover the "activities" of the so-called "diplomatic missions" of such territorial entities at all? It is enough to have an embassy of the European Union in Russia, and finally free the buildings and premises in Moscow from the representations of the countries that belong to it.
  28. kig
    +4
    26 November 2020 09: 17
    the object of attack was not domestic politicians, or, say, the military, but historians
    And which ones, and what kind of conference is this in the monastery? It turns out that this is the Russian military-historical society, whose task it is...consolidation of the forces of the state and society in the study of the military-historical past of Russia, assistance in the study of Russian military history and counteraction to attempts to distort it, ensuring the popularization of the achievements of military-historical science, fostering patriotism and raising the prestige of military service. Among the scientific council and honorary members, I counted only 4 people related to historical
  29. +2
    26 November 2020 09: 20
    1) Once upon a time there was a Russian-Polish commission of historians on this case.
    And from the beginning we would have to deal with this commission. And with a thought.
    Re-publish their expertise and findings.

    2) publish new examinations. Compare.
    The main thing is not from "Uncle Vanya", but from real centers.

    3) Cross out all obvious fakes, so as not to waste time on them.

    Then figure it out. Historians.

    And to the ambassadors to send an invitation to no purpose. These are not historians, politicians. On the contrary, it is negative if you think about it.

    “professional historians, political scientists, but also public figures, politicians from Russia, Poland, the United States were given the difficult and controversial moments of the past. The Katyn affair was considered only one of them.” - that is, a political event of a certain orientation.
    1. +1
      26 November 2020 10: 52
      There was a lady from Poland, from the States, a well-known professor, a specialist in Old English literature, an amateur historian, who exposed the slanderers of Stalin.
      Both spoke via video link.
      They write that the monks were not allowed into the monastery itself for the conference.
  30. +2
    26 November 2020 09: 27
    The Poles have two "pressing problems". First, who shot the Polish officers in Katyn. The second is who planted the government board in the Smolensk forest. More problems, no and never will. If the Poles are so proud and intelligent people, why can't you see Poland on the map? ..
  31. +1
    26 November 2020 09: 29
    Politics for the sake of rich Buratins ... it's a murky business and now it's difficult to get out of that quagmire.
    Until that reservoir was drained to the bottom, all the large fish were in sight, there would be no sense.
    Just expect something like that is hard to believe, AT ALL!
  32. +1
    26 November 2020 09: 34
    Hello everyone!
    To be honest, the reaction to the yelping of the Polish mongrel towards RUSSIA is still surprising.
    Compatriots, if somewhere on the street a small "sweaty pinscher" yaps, do you react nervously to this or simply ignore this "background" sound?
    I - I do not react in any way to the blathering of pshek - and I recommend that you do so.
    All - health!
  33. +2
    26 November 2020 09: 46
    The Poles are especially concerned with the participation of State Duma deputy Alexei Chepa and his statements in the conference.
    ... It is also surprising that this event was approved by the official representatives of the Russian Duma who participated in the conference.

    https://www.gov.pl/web/rossija/------------5
    I don't know if a State Duma deputy can be called an official representative (unless he really had some direction from the State Duma to participate, which may also be).
    The deputy has already backed slightly, judging by the press, saying that the Poles
    ... make some false conclusions from scraps of publications or something else.

    stating that they were invited to the conference.
  34. +1
    26 November 2020 09: 47
    Russia will become a strong state when it defends its citizens! First, let's FULLY investigate the destruction of Soviet prisoners in the 20s in Poland, and only after that we will consider Katyn! And in ANY way! Why is the United States arresting and imprisoning Russian citizens all over the world, but Putin doesn't care! Why don't we put US citizens in jail? Why does a US employee run over our citizen in a car, making him disabled and calmly leaves home with a smile! And if a Russian embassy employee had run over a US citizen in a car, he would have been immediately unscrewed clockwise!
    1. -2
      26 November 2020 12: 35
      Quote: maiman61
      First, let's FULLY investigate the destruction of Soviet prisoners in the 20s in Poland

      Come on! Let us also remember the year 1612! And earlier.
      Listen, on the death of our prisoners of war in Poland in the 20s, the issue is closed, and ours closed it, in Soviet times for a long period the fate of the Red Army in Polish captivity was not investigated, and after 1945 it was hushed up for politically motivated reasons, since the Polish People's Republic was ally of the USSR. Now, again, there are some attempts on our part, and then only by the number of victims.
      1. +1
        26 November 2020 13: 32
        Russia is a weakling in such matters! Here in the West they can ...

      2. 0
        26 November 2020 15: 20
        So let the psheki shut up with their Katyn! It was and passed! Amen! And in Katyn, the nature should be restored, the ugly buildings removed, the ecology must be protected!
        1. -3
          26 November 2020 16: 11
          Quote: maiman61
          So let the psheki shut up with their Katyn! It was and passed! Amen! And in Katyn, the nature should be restored, the ugly buildings removed, the ecology must be protected!

          In Katyn, significantly more Soviet citizens were killed than Polish ones. Aide to the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Medinsky announced this live on the Echo of Moscow radio station.

          “Traditionally, Katyn was perceived as the place where Polish officers were killed. The number of these officers who were shot there or nearby is fairly well established. We have created a museum of the history of Soviet and Russian-Polish relations there. A lot of our prisoners were killed there during the years of repression and more than Poles were buried there, in Katyn. Essentially, nothing was said about it. We are just expanding and complementing this story, making it true, as it really was, ”he said.

          Medinsky added that lately Russia has been paying more attention to Katyn than “partners”.

          “As for Katyn, we have been paying much more attention to this than our partners over the past two years. This is also a branch of the Museum of Contemporary History of Russia. A comprehensive reconstruction was carried out there, a memorial was erected, excavations and burials were carried out of many who died in Katyn and were destroyed there, ”he said.
          1. +2
            26 November 2020 19: 47
            "In Katyn, significantly more Soviet citizens were killed than Polish citizens. This was announced live on the radio station" Echo of Moscow "by the aide to the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Medinsky."
            ===

            It was under the leadership of Medinsky that a memorial plaque was erected to Mannerheim in St. Petersburg!
            Ki from "Echo of Moscow" and members of our government got together. Merged in ecstasy!
            After all, "Zuleikha" was filmed by Medinsky's order!
          2. 0
            26 November 2020 20: 20
            Who is Medina? They have spread like fleas!
            1. -3
              27 November 2020 15: 11
              Quote: maiman61
              Who is Medina?

              Former Minister of Culture of the Russian Federation, now an adviser to the President.
  35. -1
    26 November 2020 09: 50
    among other things, contributed to and, to put it mildly, its ill-considered estimates made by the leaders of the USSR
    This is perhaps the most important thing, the myth itself, if it exists, is safe and does not carry anything anti-Soviet and even more so Russophobic. The circumstances were as follows ...
  36. +2
    26 November 2020 09: 50
    = To our great regret, some modern Polish politicians, who have forgotten about the number of Red Army soldiers who laid down their heads when liberating their country from the Nazi yoke, =
    And this has to do with it? I think this is superfluous in the scientific and historical study of the issue.
    In my opinion, Yu.I. Mukhin figured out this issue most fully and thoroughly in his books "The Katyn Detective" and "Anti-Russian Meanness". It would be useful for gentlemen historians, and not only Polish ones, as well as gentlemen from the State Duma, to carefully study the contents of these books.
    The insolence of the Poles stems from the betrayal of Gorbachev and Yeltsin of the interests of their country. Because, no matter how unscrupulous "historians", on the wave of spitting on JV Stalin and the NKVD, blamed the USSR for the Katyn execution, this is nothing compared to the statements of the leaders of the state.
    In the current situation, only the statement of the President of Russia can "legitimize" the truth - the POLYAKS were shot by the GERMANS!
    1. 0
      26 November 2020 10: 40
      From only non-Poles ..... At least, in the mentioned place. To be precise, there are Poles there and they are not "ours", and they were buried later .... The stump is clear, only the version)))
  37. -2
    26 November 2020 10: 24
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    = To our great regret, some modern Polish politicians, who have forgotten about the number of Red Army soldiers who laid down their heads when liberating their country from the Nazi yoke, =
    And this has to do with it? I think this is superfluous in the scientific and historical study of the issue.
    In my opinion, Yu.I. Mukhin figured out this issue most fully and thoroughly in his books "The Katyn Detective" and "Anti-Russian Meanness". It would be useful for gentlemen historians, and not only Polish ones, as well as gentlemen from the State Duma, to carefully study the contents of these books.
    The insolence of the Poles stems from the betrayal of Gorbachev and Yeltsin of the interests of their country. Because, no matter how unscrupulous "historians", on the wave of spitting on JV Stalin and the NKVD, blamed the USSR for the Katyn execution, this is nothing compared to the statements of the leaders of the state.
    In the current situation, only the statement of the President of Russia can "legitimize" the truth - the POLYAKS were shot by the GERMANS!


    What kind of nonsense are you writing? Or is it the specifics of your work, work according to training manuals? What does the loss of the USSR have to do with the liberation of Poland and the execution at Katyn? What is the causal relationship? Have you read the text of the article at all? Read the materials about the conference, read the statement of the Polish embassy in the Russian Federation. Yes, relations between the two countries are complicated, but this is not a reason to try to rewrite history.
    1. +1
      26 November 2020 12: 20
      Quote: Desperado
      What kind of nonsense are you writing?

      For you who have carefully read the article, I give a full quote -
      = Departing from the materials of the conference, let me remind myself that the beginning of political speculations around the Katyn affair was laid by the propaganda machine of the Third Reich. To our great regret, some modern Polish politicians, who have forgotten about the number of Red Army soldiers who laid down their heads when liberating their country from the Nazi yoke, stubbornly continue to consider the fabrications of the department of Joseph Goebbels "the ultimate truth". Or do they prefer to consider - proceeding from the prevailing Russophobic conjuncture in the West? =
      What "fabrications of the Goebbels department" does the author mean? Namely "Katyn Deed".
      And when it comes to the "Katyn affair", i.e. RESEARCH, who actually shot the Poles, then the mention of the price paid by the USSR for the liberation of Poland from the Germans is simply inappropriate. That's all I wanted to say.
    2. +1
      26 November 2020 18: 53
      "The insolence of the Poles comes from the betrayal of Gorbachev, Yeltsin, the interests of their country."
      ===
      And Putin and our State Duma too!
      They also betrayed in 2010, and before the USSR betrayed the interests of the country and from their people.
    3. 0
      26 November 2020 19: 48
      "Yes, relations between the two countries are complicated, but this is not a reason to try to rewrite history."
      ===
      Those. do you fully support Goebbels?
  38. +4
    26 November 2020 11: 04
    Poles, Poles, Poles ... The Russian Tsars, when they realized that after the Golden Horde was defeated, the greatest danger to Russia was a hybrid state consisting of the Grand Duchy
    Lithuanian and Kingdom of Poland. And the Tsars took every effort to tear apart the nest of the Commonwealth, hostile to Russia. It was after this that Russia quickly grew from a small Moscow Kingdom into the strongest and largest Empire. and from the large state of Rzeczpospolita, only scraps remained. But precisely, as soon as Russia forgot about these unfinished crumbs, they immediately began to spew Russophobia and aggression not only against Russia but also against Europe, for which even the ardent Russophobe Churchill called the Poles the hyena of Europe. And in the other part, consisting of these scraps, Lithuanians and Soviet people who shot Jews and Lithuanian forest brothers raged. And in another part of these scraps, the Bandera members raged, who shot everyone except those who were loyal to Hitler. So, now those scraps, in the person of Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine, have united in an unconditional danger for Russia and Russia, it is necessary to accept the wrong lessons of history that it is trying to impose these united lumps, and Russia will be worth remembering those actions and lessons of its own History, after which and as a result of which from the small Moscow Kingdom Russia
    grew into a mighty and great Russian Empire precisely because it took action and correctly understood then what kind of danger Russia posed by the then Poland, which united around itself
    and the lands of today's Lithuania and Ukraine. And oh, how I do not want to attribute here the land of today
    Belarus. Although, when a couple of months ago Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine created the Lublin Triangle, in their minds they already had the Lublin Square with Belarus in it. So, Russia, wake up and learn your own story from the experience of your History, and not the story that is imposed on you. your enemies from outside and your own fifth column inside Russia.
  39. 0
    26 November 2020 11: 59
    In fact, Poland (the Polish leadership) is waging an aggressive war against the Russian Federation.
    The reasons for the deaths of Polish citizens in Katyn is a purely historical question, and historians must decide.
    Note that the issue of the genocide of Soviet citizens is not being raised.
  40. 0
    26 November 2020 12: 04
    Yes, if there was even microscopic evidence of the guilt of the USSR, then all the courts of the world would be inundated with claims from the pshek, the vilest nation of Europe ..
    1. 0
      26 November 2020 12: 32
      This is how they achieve it ...
  41. +1
    26 November 2020 13: 17
    Gentlemen, everything is as usual. Nothing new.

    They were aiming for communism, but ended up in Russia. The well-known anti-Soviet Zinoviev said ...

    Earlier, except for the Germans, no one had ever admitted their war crimes. And Yeltsin's / Gorbachev's Russia wanted to show off before LGBT politicians in the West, wanted European standards, wanted their cookies. They even repented of what they did not do ...

    1. +1
      26 November 2020 13: 21
      Quote: Timofey Charuta
      They were aiming for communism, but ended up in Russia.

      Where they were targeting, they got there.
      The famous philosopher Zinoviev said that they study the USSR like a hunter studies an elephant in order to kill for sure with one shot.
      The elephant did not hurt. He doesn't even realize he is killed.
  42. 0
    26 November 2020 13: 25
    Quote: iouris
    Where they were targeting, they got there.

    I agree, this is even more accurate. Thanks for the correction.
  43. +2
    26 November 2020 14: 03
    The Russophobia of the Poles is centuries old. Unfortunately, for many years, Russian foreign policy, or rather its absence, only fueled it.
  44. 0
    26 November 2020 15: 50
    It is useful to convene a scientific and practical conference on history, which is dedicated to indisputable evidence of the illegality and inexpediency of the existence of modern Poland.
    1. +4
      26 November 2020 18: 49
      Heaven itself has already sent them a completely unequivocal warning, having destroyed the Polish government delegation by the hands of high-ranking Polish statesmen themselves, who intended to arrange a vile Sabbath in Katyn together with our statesmen.
  45. 0
    26 November 2020 16: 39
    Those. the order of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks dated 05.03.1940/03.03.1959/632 and a handwritten note of the KGB chairman Shelepin dated XNUMX No. XNUMX-Sh - is this all a fake?
    1. +2
      26 November 2020 18: 47
      The fake is man-made.
      Even then, the Khrushchevites were ready for the sake of pouring crap on Stalin to make any falsified, if only against the USSR and Stalin.
    2. +2
      27 November 2020 00: 21
      the order of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks was falsified from various documents (the beginning was printed on one typewriter and the end on another), the order is meaningless, in fact, it has no logic at all and a clear solution, it is not suitable for execution, because it was fabricated from other orders and approved with the seal of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (in 1940 the Communist Party of the Soviet Union did not exist), and a handwritten note of the 5th grade student, in block letters, proving that the MGB did not have enough typewriters even for the leadership ..... nothing is proved by these fakes, except that they are fakes and fabricated by AN Yakovlev. And they were fabricated by people under compulsion who hate their lies.
  46. +3
    26 November 2020 18: 45
    I wish all the government kamas who bowed in front of the pshek and kneeled in front of them would spit in the face!
    After all, it has long been known that Goebbels cannot be trusted.
    No, our ki BELIEVED GEBBELS, not the conclusion of the Burdenko commission.
    The anti-Sovietism once again sprinkled the shit with which they tried to pour over the USSR, themselves.
    Yes, so delicious!
    And as soon as they will be washed?
    They already got to Mannerheim, who closed the blockade of Leningrad from the north, HAVE DELIVERED A MEMORIAL BOARD IN PETERSBURG!
    OUR GOVERNMENT!
    And with the Poles in 2010 they decided to arrange an anti-Soviet Sabbath in Katyn!
    TWO GOVERNMENTS: OUR AND POLISH!
    Even the sky could not stand such blasphemy, and destroyed the main blasphemers, POLES!
    Only ours were spared for some reason.
    Well, okay, our people are still waiting for the judgment of history and people.
  47. +2
    26 November 2020 21: 49
    It has long been necessary to destroy this monument in Katyn! The Poles, as they were ladies of easy virtue, remained. Someone always had Poland. Either the Russian Empire, Austria-Hungary, or Prussia, the USSR, now America. In short, it is up to everyone who pays the most. So that's right - I'm sorry .......
  48. +2
    26 November 2020 23: 12
    Poland is once again ... divided.
  49. +1
    27 November 2020 00: 13
    it is clear that the spiritual descendants of Goebbels = Polish corrupt liars, throwing mud at our victory for 30 pieces of silver and falling into total Russophobia, are trying to prove the unprovable, take it impudently, using the corrupt media, traitors in the Russian leadership. This desecration of the victims of the Nazis, both Poles and Russians, desecration of the dead is a great sin, even God did not allow Kaczynski to outrage the dead, he crashed intimidating his pilot and died. It is clear that the NKVD could not shoot the Poles, it did not have the means and strength to shoot such a number of people at the same time, and in the conditions of the hasty flight of the Soviet army, there was no one to do it at all, which means they were shot by the order of the Nazis by the Ukrainian Bendera, known for their Polonophobia. By the way, they not only shot massively Polish officers, but also a lot of peaceful Poles and Jews, which is an obvious fact. Burdenko's commission proved everything in hot pursuit, there is nothing more to talk about.
  50. -1
    27 November 2020 08: 47
    It's just that the Poles are afraid to go to the German masters and demand money for the execution, which is obvious to the whole world, in the fall of 41, the Polish prisoners from the Soviet camp gathered around the district. The guards, most likely, received an order to pick up those who wanted, and these people emerge in different places later, but the bulk of the Polish prisoners resisted, and the guards were not given the order to shoot, and it would be dangerous. The Poles fled, sometimes contacted the locals (records were preserved), the Germans raked them in, took them away to build a secret command post of Army Group Center, in my opinion, and then, as they always did, they shot them.

    Well, for our prisoners of the Soviet-Polish war, epically merged by the "brilliant" Tukhachevsky, it is high time to ask the Poles, otherwise Hitler is not, and the Poles have performed no worse.
  51. 0
    27 November 2020 08: 54
    to support at any cost another anti-Soviet and Russophobic myth, which is part of something even larger. Namely, the course adopted from a certain point in the West to diminish the decisive role of the USSR in the victory over Nazism in the Great Patriotic War.

    The demolition of monuments to liberators throughout Europe is already belittling the role of the USSR. And part of something bigger is a return to the policies of the 3rd Reich. This is the glorification of Nazism. The gentlemen rely on the conclusions of the Goebbels commission. Since he was right here, it means everything else that he said and what they did under his speech was true.
  52. +1
    27 November 2020 08: 58
    Yes, our people were shot, the documents were declassified! How long can you continue to flog this nonsense?




    1. 0
      27 November 2020 16: 00
      “Yes, our people were shot, the documents were declassified! How long can we continue to flog this nonsense?”
      ===
      It has already been proven that the document is fake and was made in the late 80s.
      1. 0
        27 November 2020 16: 15
        Who proved it? How did this document get into the archive - RGASPI F. 17 op. 166 case 621 sheet 130 ?
  53. 0
    27 November 2020 10: 27
    It’s high time to respond asymmetrically to every Pshek “vyak” regarding Katyn. They blathered once, to plow up a piece of this Katyn... They blathered again - to cut off another piece. The more they blather, the less of this Katyn will be left and in the end it will be completely plowed up. It certainly won't make things any worse for us. There's simply nowhere else to go.
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  56. +1
    27 November 2020 17: 39
    Let the Poles clearly explain where the USSR got 15 officers for the three Polish armies. In the Great Patriotic War, there was one officer for every 000 soldiers and sergeants. Anders' Army, 10, 1941 military personnel and 50 members of their families (where did these come from?), the first army of the Polish Army under the command of Berling in 000 - 58 people, the second army of the Polish Army under the command of Swierczewski in 000 - 1943 people. All three armies were armed, dressed, shod, and received monetary and clothing allowances from the USSR. Moreover, Anders’ army did not want to fight as part of the Red Army and went to Iran to join the British.
  57. 0
    27 November 2020 18: 01
    The Poles demolished 420 (!) monuments to Soviet soldiers who liberated Poland and their commanders.

    https://iz.ru/911057/dmitrii-laru/snos-pamiati-polsha-demontirovala-bolee-420-sovetskikh-monumentov

    Russia is humbly awaiting million-dollar claims from the relatives of the gendarmes, jailers and police officers who were shot by unknown people in Katyn. .

    1. 0
      28 November 2020 00: 31
      It’s true, it’s too early to cover your head with ashes. The Russians also have something to show the Poles...
  58. 0
    27 November 2020 21: 41
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    Poles in Katyn were shot by Soviet security officers

    I wonder if near the village of Mednoye, did the Germans really try too? So someone killed more Poles, but who?
  59. The comment was deleted.
  60. 0
    28 November 2020 00: 45
    THERE was shot by the NKVD quite rightly - only a small part of the Polish scum, spies and saboteurs. Those who killed and tortured Ukrainian and Belarusian peasants, organized riots on the border, engaged in terror, sabotage - the police, Polish army intelligence, constables (retired officers who had the right to execute peasants without trial and did so). What was recorded during the return of the lands of Ukraine and Belarus. The rest are all debatable. According to the law of war, the most stubborn Polish Nazis were probably slapped when the Germans advanced - this is what both the British and the Americans did, everyone. This is the law of war. But there are few of them -0 these are Polish officers, gendarmes, convinced Pilsudians (Hitler’s allies, deceived - how can we leave such people? 400 thousand Poles served in the Wehrmacht and so on). THE REST - DURING the meat cutting under Rzhev, the rest of the Poles lay in fighting poses, mixed with our nurses and the wounded - that the NKVD shot their hospital for greater persuasiveness? The investigation needs to be conducted again.