The Ministry of Defense modernizes the heavy flame-throwing systems "Buratino" and "Solntsepёk"

The Ministry of Defense plans to modernize the TOS-1 and TOS-1A heavy flame-throwing systems. Reported by "News" with reference to the military department.

According to the newspaper, a fundamental decision to modernize TOS-1 "Buratino" and TOS-1A "Solntsepek" has already been made. First of all, the newly released vehicles will be modernized, and the equipment already supplied to the troops will be updated during the repair process.

As explained in the military department, the modernization of flamethrower systems was required due to the change in tasks for the TOS and the growing range. The modernized vehicles will receive modern digital communication facilities, as well as equipment for a closed data transmission segment, which will allow them to be integrated into automatic control systems (ACS) of the tactical level. In addition, long-range ammunition from TOS-1 (Tosochka) will be adapted for TOS-1 and TOS-2A, thereby increasing the range of TOS to 15 km instead of the currently available 6 km.

At present, the RChBZ is armed with about a hundred heavy flamethrower systems of two modifications: TOS-1 "Buratino" based on tank T-72 and improved TOS-1A "Solntsepek" on the T-90 chassis. All existing vehicles will be upgraded.

Earlier, the Ministry of Defense said that by 2025 in the Southern Military District all TOS-1 and TOS-1A on a tracked chassis will be replaced with a wheeled TOS-2 "Tosochka". TPS on caterpillar tracks will remain in service with the RHBZ troops in other regions where the use of wheeled vehicles is impractical.

Comments

[Roman 57 rus]

As I asked, they increased the firing range.))

[Dodikson]

what for ? thermobaric ammunition is available both under the Hail and under the Tornado with the Hurricane.
there, the range in general can reach hundreds of kilometers.

[K-612-O]

Thermobaric ammunition only for the Tornado, which is 300mm, TOS 220mm

[Dodikson]

truth ?
but do not tell me, but what then is 9M51?

[Alex777]

Thermobaric ammunition only for the Tornado, which is 300mm, TOS 220mm

And the issue price matters. Both in the cost of one shell, and in the cost of the Tornado itself.
Accurate aiming at a distance of 100 km is an expensive task.
As a result, the troops will have significantly more flamethrower systems than Tornadoes.

[KCA]

The mass of the warhead is a little, an order of magnitude, different

[Bad_gr]

Quote: KCA

The mass of the warhead is a little, an order of magnitude, different

Everything is logical: the length of the projectile is limited, so with a large warhead there is less space for the rocket engine, hence the short range. And vice versa.
By the way, baric ammunition is also quite compact. For example, to grenade launchers.
TBG-7V

And even to the GM-94 grenade launcher

[faiver]

can we pass our requests through you? We have a lot of them

[Nikolaevich I]

The range is not clear! Yes, there were "talks" about increasing the firing range for new systems ... But it was ... up to 10 km! If you believe "at the word" and in 15 km, then such a "picture" (!) ...: the mentioned range of up to 15 km can be achieved due to a "sharp" (!) Increase in the engine and decrease in the "mass" of the warhead ! And then the question arises: Is the "game worth the candle"? New rates for "power" (area of ​​damage) will not differ for the "better" from the corresponding rates of MLRS "Uragan"! The only "plus" may be that the ammunition for TPSs will be less weight (shorter) and thus the logistics will be somewhat easier ... (more ammunition can be loaded onto the "truck" ...).

[Piramidon]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

The only "plus" can be that the ammunition for TPSs will be less weight (shorter) and thus the logistics will be somewhat easier

And for the price?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Piramidon

And for the price?

With or without kickbacks?)

[KCA]

THOSE. We do not consider fuel efficiency for rocket engines at all? In vain, progress in this segment is taking very long strides, on Sary-Shagan every six months they are clearly shown, and even more often they are not shown

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: KCA

we do not consider fuel efficiency for rocket engines at all

But not by the same "leaps and bounds" steps! At first, about 4 km ... we pulled ourselves up, barely gave 6 km ... then they began to promise up to 10 km (!) ... namely, up to ...., that is, one could say 8-10 km ! It is known how the engine power can be increased within the previous limits of mass and dimensions, but in Russia there are significant problems in terms of the production possibilities of creating such a fuel and engine!

[KCA]

There were problems, there was a case, but in 20 years the problems with TTD were not solved, and they were not brought to greater productivity, do you doubt? I don’t, the grass doesn’t have time to grow on the landfills and the puddles are covered with ice, they fuck several times a week

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: KCA

do you doubt Me not

Well. well ... blessed is he who believes! It is easy for him to live! And I have to doubt when you read how the "plans-promises" for the "armament-re-armament" of the RF Armed Forces are thwarted! When in the next they explain this by the same thing: there is no funding (not enough)! ...

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

And I have to doubt when you read how the "plans-promises" for the "armament-re-armament" of the RF Armed Forces are thwarted! When in the next they explain this by the same thing: there is no funding (not enough)

Colleague, you are doing the right thing to doubt. the thing is that the Soviet modernization reserve is practically exhausted, and even if engineers invent something breakthrough, the backward technological base will not allow the plan to be implemented. All our technologies and tactics of application remained at the level of the Afghan war.

[Cympak]

MLRS is artillery, and TOS is RChBZ. That's all the reasons ...

[infantryman2020]

Correct answer! RHBZ-shniki lobbied.

[Maz]

Interestingly, the one who wrote the title understands that it is impossible to modernize Buratino, they are not released. Long time ago.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Maz

Pinocchio cannot be modernized, they are not released. Long time ago.

If my memory does not change, Papa Carlo did only one thing. Indeed, it was a long time ago, perhaps, and all technologies are lost.

[wow]

Oh-oh-very good Buratina! We need more of them!

[Victor_B]

Quote: yo-mine

Oh-oh-chen good Buratina!

Evil Buratina!

[Kart]

It depends on whom to use - to change the name. Burachuk, Burdogan, Burobalt.
It depends on who puffs out their cheeks.
Just a little - please, the new Buratyan systems have entered service. Or Buraliev.

[Alex777]

And you got ethnic strife ...

[Victor_B]

But I would not like to sit in it at the moment of hitting the simplest shot from any grenade launcher into a tube with a rocket ...

[Alex777]

So they increased the range. No grenade launcher will hit.

[voyaka uh]

Buratino's crew - death row.
And the grenade launcher is not needed. Harop buzzes from 200 km - and from above ...
They must be given stars of Heroes in advance, before hostilities

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: voyaka uh

... Harop buzzes

And why only Buratina's crew?
What, all the other crews are immortal? In tanks, armored personnel carriers, just in trucks?
Why are there crews, all soldiers in the war are suicide bombers.
Even the drone operator can fly in another drone, or the Poseidon will sail to the extreme.

[Maz]

Quote: voyaka uh

Buratino's crew - death row.
And the grenade launcher is not needed. Harop buzzes from 200 km - and from above ...
They must be given stars of Heroes in advance, before hostilities

Go, warrior uh, turn over your Merkava tank at the beginning, which yesterday at the base were turned over by brilliant Jewish tankers: the Tevets base in the Jordan Valley, the exercises of the 7029th battalion of the 179th reserve tank brigade.

תיעוד התהפכות הטנק בבקעה pic.twitter.com/6D7jtjasrh

- Or Heller אור הלר (@OrHeller) November 22, 2020

[Center]
You have to hum and hum there.

[KCA]

You know very little about our RChBZ troops, we have such devices, but we will not tell you about them ...

[svp67]

Earlier, the Ministry of Defense said that by 2025 in the Southern Military District all TOS-1 and TOS-1A on a tracked chassis will be replaced with a wheeled TOS-2 "Tosochka". TPS on caterpillar tracks will remain in service with the RHBZ troops in other regions where the use of wheeled vehicles is impractical.

So in the West they can be safely changed to "Tosochka" road network, this allows

[voyaka uh]

And how are they going to protect them from drones and kamikaze drones? In Karabakh, the Tornadoes burned to the ground, not to mention the Grads.
Each Pinocchio must have its own Thor and Carapace.

[Azimuth]

There is no other way. And cover the Iskander drone control headquarters. Here's a new expensive war.

[Alex777]

And cover the Iskander drone control headquarters.

Iskander is not enough.
Art will be enough.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: voyaka uh

And how are they going to protect them from drones and kamikaze drones? In Karabakh, the Tornadoes burned to the ground, not to mention the Grads.

"Wherever they say -
All one will reduce to women! "

[Dym71]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

No matter what they say -
All one will reduce to women!

Full, dove, do not sin
Take away your verses, -
He's not ethno for money,
He's an ethno for the soul!

[Dym71]

Quote: voyaka uh

Each Pinocchio must have its own Thor and Carapace.

Calls Antires
And such isho cut:
Attach both Thor and Carapace -
On a goose ali without?

[serg.shishkov2015]

The eternal verses of Leonid Filatov Can be remade for anything!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Dym71

Calls Antires
And such isho cut:
Attach both Thor and Carapace -
On a goose ali without?

Yes!

[Alex777]

And how are they going to protect them from drones and kamikaze drones?

Are kamikaze drones immortal / endless?
Are they not afraid of anything, can you bring them down? Derivation?

[voyaka uh]

The main difference between drones and manned vehicles is that drones -
absolutely, totally fearless. All of them are heroes.
But the complexes or single air defense systems are controlled by people.
Specialists, professionals. In humans, nerves are not iron. And they are not at all ready to die.
Therefore, in the duel between people and drones, people are obviously the losers.
This is not yet very realized. The psychology of human heroism has taken root firmly in their heads.
Only drones can defeat drones. Or air defense robots.

[Alex777]

The main difference between drones and manned vehicles is that drones are absolutely, totally fearless. All of them are heroes.

Theoretically, it’s a mare, but practically, I don’t carry it ...
In addition to Derivation, there is electronic warfare, there is a microwave oven, etc., etc.
And still much is decided by the range.
In the video, the drones saw from 6 km how the Tornado was firing, but could not interfere in any way. They flew, flew after the Tornado that had shot back until he led them to another one and stood next to them. The drones still flew up (up to 2 km) and then of course they showed themselves in all their glory. But this only happens in Karabakh. IMHO.

[voyaka uh]

"flew after the Tornado that had shot back until it led them to another" ///
----
You see, you yourself explained why you did not immediately destroy the first one.
They also needed a second, hidden one.

"But this only happens in Karabakh" ///
----
Karabakh is just the beginning. It will be so everywhere.
There will be tens of times more drones.
And dinosaurs from MLRS: all sorts of Tornadoes and Buratino will die out.

[Alex777]

Karabakh is just the beginning. It will be so everywhere.
There will be tens of times more drones.
And dinosaurs from MLRS: all sorts of Tornadoes and Buratino will die out.

Colleague!
You are a respected conversation partner.
Sober, reasonable, knowledgeable.
And I, over 30 years, began to understand a little information systems.
And in what pitfalls there are in artificial intelligence systems and why there is not so much of this intelligence around.
There are many restrictions both in terms of the number of personnel, for controlling drones, and for communication channels, etc., etc.
Wunderwaffe tried to come up with a long time.
But something tells me that drones won't become one either.
PS The Yankees are the main ones in the topic of unmanned pilots. Develop artillery. MLRS and RSMD. And they absolutely do not worry about their impending demise.
Again, lasers are on the way.

[voyaka uh]

I'm afraid you have a poor idea of ​​how rapidly developing
information systems in Israel, for example. Dozens of startups,
where 80% of young people work after universities.
For two or three years, they develop devices and applications that were once sawed
for 10-15 years. Including AI, hardware and software.
Drones will not become wunderwaffe for the only reason - they will be created against
other drones. As in manned aircraft: bombers, fighters
and bomber interceptors.
But for this you need to seriously get into this military industry,
and not consider it amusing and secondary, "against the Papuans."

[Alex777]

I'm afraid you have a poor idea of ​​how rapidly information systems are developing in Israel, for example.

I'm not retired yet. And I have access to the highest level of expertise.

For two to three years, devices and applications are being developed, which were once sawed for 10-15 years.

Well yes. It all started in the 90s when, for example, the SAS Institute appeared and thanks to its tools it became possible to support complex models in real time.
Now, of course, approaches have changed a lot.
But what is most important in a complex information system?
Not development speed - I assure you.

[poquello]

Quote: voyaka uh

There will be tens of times more drones.
And dinosaurs from MLRS: all sorts of Tornadoes and Buratino will die out.

tornadoes will pass through the squares and you will release drones from kanashka hatches;

[Galleon]

Alas, Alexei, "generals are always preparing for the last war." If I could make decisions, I would add an EW complex to each battery. For drones, some time would be enough.

[serg.shishkov2015]

I never thought that such a powerful weapon would be named after my favorite book hero! And * Buratino's * nose is getting longer! Good news!

[Jacket in stock]

And I still did not understand the deep plan of attributing these "Buratins" to the chemical defense troops.
This is a normal melee MLRS.

[Vitaly161]

judging from the declared range, and it is 2 times lower than that of the same Togrnad-G, here the ammunition is much more powerful, and in the SAR they seemed to be good at aiming, the Syrians were satisfied

[serg.shishkov2015]

Officially considered a flamethrower! Yes, jet, self-propelled, armored, but a flamethrower! And flamethrowers are RHBZ, since the days of ROKS and FOGs

[Lt. Air Force stock]

To burn out infected areas. Therefore, they were assigned to the RCBZ.

[APASUS]

In fact, it requires the modernization of all MLRS for these requirements, and also the unification of charges for MLRS and TOS.

[garri-lin]

Why ammunition unification? CBT is not RSPO. No range needed. In principle, for the TOS, the range of the enemy's anti-tank defense of the company level multiplied by 1,5 is sufficient. So they didn't get it out of the trench with direct fire. This limitation allows ammunition to be made more powerful and less expensive. Range and accuracy are important for MLRS. For TOC, the power of the ammunition is important.

[Alexey RA]

As explained in the military department, the modernization of flamethrower systems was required due to the change in tasks for the TOS and the growing range. The modernized vehicles will receive modern digital communication facilities, as well as equipment for a closed data transmission segment, which will allow them to be integrated into automatic control systems (ACS) of the tactical level. In addition, long-range ammunition from TOS-1 (Tosochka) will be adapted for TOS-1 and TOS-2A, thereby increasing the range of TOS to 15 km instead of the currently available 6 km.

The next step will be to take the TOSs from the RChBZ and finally give them to the artillerymen. In order not to produce duplicate structures in non-core troops - "rocket artillery RChBZ"with all the harness of the type of control, artillery reconnaissance, topographic reference, data generation for shooting, etc., necessary for firing at 10-15 km.

[poquello]

Quote: Alexey RA

The next step will be to take the TOSs away from the RChBZ and finally give them to the gunners.

and RHBZ distribute nets and jars for catching insects)))))))))))))))))))))

[Cympak]

Quote: Alexey RA

The next step will be to take the TOSs from the RChBZ and finally give them to the artillerymen. In order not to produce duplicate structures in non-core troops - "rocket artillery RChBZ"with all the harness of the type of control, artillery reconnaissance, topographic reference, data generation for shooting, etc., necessary for firing at 10-15 km.

That would be a sensible decision. Another would be to transfer the flamethrowers from the RChBZ to the engineering and assault units.