Military Review

The cost of victory: what are the losses of Baku and Yerevan in the war for Nagorno-Karabakh

121

The data on the losses in manpower of both sides of the Armenian-Azerbaijani confrontation that ended on November 10 with a truce remain one of the most controversial and uncertain moments in assessing the real results of the rather fleeting, but extremely fierce hostilities that unfolded this year in the Caucasus. Apparently, we will not expect objective and complete figures either from Baku or Yerevan.


It should be noted that all-round concealment of one's own losses and protrusion, or even deliberate exaggeration of the number of destroyed and disabled enemy fighters has long become an integral part of the information war that invariably accompanies all modern armed conflicts. The clash over Nagorno-Karabakh was no exception to this rule.

Baku immediately flatly refused to announce the number of killed and wounded servicemen "until the end of the active phase of hostilities", while interpreting the enemy's losses quite freely. Yerevan did not hesitate to manipulate statistics, constantly trying to convince everyone that Azerbaijanis pay ten of their soldiers for each dead NKR army fighter or Armenian volunteer. At the same time, the names of the victims were published more or less regularly in NKR and Armenia. How reliable they are is another question.

Speaking at the Valdai Forum, Russian President Vladimir Putin made some clarity, at the end of last month who estimated the losses of both sides in the killed at 5 people. Presumably, Putin didn’t take this figure from the ceiling, his sources of information inspire confidence unambiguously. However, this statement does not answer the question - who did lose more? In order to understand this, one will have to make a number of assumptions, and also try to carry out calculations based on indirect signs.

First of all, in the official list published on the website of the NKR Ministry of Defense, as of November 9, there were about 1200 names of the victims. This roughly coincides with the figures announced in Yerevan. Ilham Aliyev said at the end of October that the enemy had lost about 5 thousand people killed. In response, Nikol Pashinyan began to claim that at least 10 Azerbaijanis had been killed. The NKR announced the figure of more than 3 thousand killed Azerbaijani soldiers at the beginning of the same month. Tellingly, such an estimate coincides with the number of deaths, named in Azerbaijani social networks by local residents.

Domestic military experts did not stay away from the discussion of such a burning topic. Some of them are inclined to estimate the number of those killed on both sides at 3 - 3,5 thousand people. At the same time, recalling that during the previous Armenian-Azerbaijani side, the irrecoverable losses of Yerevan (about 6 thousand people) were half, or even three times less than those officially recognized by Baku (from 21 to 15 thousand killed), many believe that that roughly the same ratio could be maintained in the current conflict. Especially considering that the attacking side always loses more personnel than the defending side.

If we talk about general sanitary losses (wounded, sick, shell-shocked, traumatized), then they, as a rule, in conditions of modern hostilities exceed the number of those killed by 2-3 times. Therefore, it can be assumed here that for each of the parties they amount to approximately 10-15 thousand people.

In general, we are talking about such losses in a month and a half of fighting, which are quite comparable with the losses of Soviet troops in Afghanistan for 10 years of war.

Be that as it may, there are very strong doubts that accurate and objective data will become public - at least in the near foreseeable future. The Armenian authorities now need to conceal the scale and bitterness of the defeat suffered as much as possible (namely, the Azerbaijani authorities speak about the defeat of Armenia), and the Azerbaijani side has absolutely no need to inform its own citizens about the price paid for taking control of several regions adjacent to Nagorno-Karabakh and parts of its territory.

As you know, no war can be considered over until the last one killed is buried. Based on this postulate, the end of the current stage of the Karabakh war will have to wait for a very long time.
Author:
Photos used:
Photo from Wikipedia: Ilham Aliyev at a meeting with wounded soldiers
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 11 November 2020 11: 11
    11
    I understand, people are all .. And they became hostages of politics. But the main thing is that our guys do not die there.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 11 November 2020 11: 26
      12
      Dmitriy hi,
      to avoid this, you need to react inevitably harshly to shooting "in the back".
      1. Magadan
        Magadan 12 November 2020 03: 17
        +9
        Quote: lexus
        to avoid this, you need to react inevitably harshly to shooting "in the back".


        you expect inevitability and rigidity from Putin? laughing
        Even after our helicopter was shot down with impunity?
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 12 November 2020 08: 36
          0
          Whom do you propose to punish for this?
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 12 November 2020 09: 14
            +4
            Quote: EvilLion
            Whom do you propose to punish for this?

            Fire strike at the launch site not?
            1. bk316
              bk316 12 November 2020 13: 00
              +5
              Fire strike at the launch site not?

              This should have been done immediately.
              And now it will punish those who are not involved ...

              And for the future, you need to know what mandate the peacekeepers have, I'm afraid they don't have the right to respond with a fire strike at the launch site.
              1. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 16 November 2020 10: 14
                +1
                Quote: bk316
                Fire strike at the launch site not?

                This should have been done immediately.
                And now it will punish those who are not involved ...

                And for the future, you need to know what mandate the peacekeepers have, I'm afraid they don't have the right to respond with a fire strike at the launch site.

                Forgive me, but why did they bring so much equipment then? And at that time they were not peacekeepers, but a column of troops with all that it implies.
            2. kenig1
              kenig1 12 November 2020 23: 17
              0
              They will wait for the launch, right?
        2. oprovergatel
          oprovergatel 15 November 2020 04: 26
          +2
          And you, plush kite, I watch everything you are eager to fight? What is the generic name? Jos pepper? Or a Harsh Warrior?
    2. Reviews
      Reviews 11 November 2020 12: 07
      +7
      Quote: 210ox
      I understand, people are all .. And they became hostages of politics. But the main thing is that our guys do not die there.

      Duc, already: Mi-24.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 11 November 2020 14: 57
        +6
        Well, these turkogads killed our people in Syria too. A question for the reaction of our drivers.
  2. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 11: 23
    -1
    Confirmed losses of equipment:

    Armenia / Republic of Artsakh

    Tanks (185, of which destroyed: 115, damaged: 4, captured: 66)

    Armored fighting vehicles (44, of which destroyed: 24, captured: 20)

    Infantry fighting vehicles (43, of which destroyed: 21, captured: 22)

    Surface-to-air missile systems (26, of which destroyed: 26)
    3 9K35 Strela-10: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed)
    14 9K33 Osa:
    2 2K12 Kub: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed by loitering munition)
    5 5P85S
    1 S-300 component: (1, destroyed)
    1 Tor-M2KM: (1, destroyed by loitering munition)

    Jammers and Deception systems (2, of which destroyed: 2)
    1 R-330P Piramida-I: (1, destroyed)
    1 Repellent-1: (1, destroyed)

    Aircraft (1, of which destroyed: 1)
    1 Su-25K (1, crashed)

    Azerbaijan

    Tanks (30, of which destroyed: 19, damaged: 7, abandoned: 1, captured: 2, captured but later lost: 1)

    Armored fighting vehicles (13, of which damaged: 1, abandoned: 4, captured: 8)

    Infantry fighting vehicles (31, of which destroyed: 16, damaged: 2, abandoned: 4, captured: 9)

    Aircraft and Helicopters (12, of which destroyed: 12)
    11 An-2
    1 Mi-8/17 (Loss admitted by Azerbaijan)

    Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (25, of which destroyed: 22, captured: 3)
    1 Aerostar surveillance UAV: ​​(1, crashed)
    11 IAI Harop loitering munition:
    1 SkyStriker loitering munition:
    1 Orbiter 1K loitering munition: (1, crashed and captured)
    2 Bayraktar TB2 UCAV: (1, crashed) (2, destroyed)
    8 Unknown UAV:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html#comment-form
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 12: 21
      +6
      Interestingly, the number of confirmed lost Azerbaijani tanks, BMPs, armored personnel carriers is less than the captured Armenian ones. In addition, the damaged equipment remained in the liberated territory, so it can be restored.
      As a result of the war on armored vehicles, Azerbaijan remained in a good plus.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 November 2020 17: 43
      +3
      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
      Armenia / Republic of Artsakh

      Tanks (185, of which destroyed: 115, damaged: 4, captured: 66)
      Armored fighting vehicles (44, of which destroyed: 24, captured: 20)
      Infantry fighting vehicles (43, of which destroyed: 21, captured: 22)

      Hmmm ... the Armenians have a sad ratio of destroyed and captured (that is, abandoned) armored vehicles. Especially for light armored vehicles.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 17: 54
        +1
        The most hell in the number of destroyed and captured trucks and cars:

        Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (451, of which destroyed: 198, damaged: 14, captured: 220)

        9 GAZ-66:
        30 GAZ-3308:
        1 9T217 transloader (for 9K33 Osa):
        45 KamAZ:
        31 ZiL-131:
        5 Ural-375:
        94 Ural-4320:
        41 Ural-43206:
        16 UAZ-452:
        28 UAZ-469:
        2 UAZ Patriot:
        9 UAZ-23602-130:
        9 UAZ-23632:
        84 Unknown truck:
        42 Van or jeep:
        1 Bus (carrying reinforcements):
        1 Trailer: (1, destroyed)
        1 Tank trailer: (1, destroyed)
        1 S-300 trailer: (1, destroyed)


        The joke that Armenia is the # 1 supplier of weapons for the Azerbaijani army does not seem like a joke.
      2. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 22: 16
        +2
        Found a normal translation.

        Losses of Armenia:

        1) Tanks - 185 units. (of which 66 units were captured as trophies):

        52 units - T-72A
        2 units - T-72AK
        16 units - T-72AV
        35 units - T-72B
        80 units - T-72 of unidentified modifications

        2) Armored combat vehicles - 44 units. (of which 20 units were captured as trophies):

        20 units - MTLB with memory Zastava M55
        4 units - MTLB with ZU-23
        2 units - MTLB with S-60
        6 units - MTLB
        2 units - ZSU-23-4 "Shilka"
        1 unit - BRM-1K
        2 units - BRDM-2
        1 unit - BTR-70
        4 units - BTS-4
        2 units - unidentified armored vehicles

        3) Infantry fighting vehicles - 43 units. (of which 22 were captured as trophies):

        21 units - BMP-1
        19 units - BMP-2
        3 units - unidentified infantry fighting vehicles

        4) Self-propelled anti-tank systems - 3 units. (of which 2 were captured as trophies):

        2 units - 9П148 "Competition"
        1 unit - 1P149 "Shturm-S"

        5) Towed artillery - 147 units. (of which 27 were captured as trophies):

        2 units - 85 mm gun D-44
        2 units - 100 mm MT-12 "Rapier"
        5 units - 100-mm anti-aircraft gun KS-19
        1 unit - 122 mm howitzer M-30
        65 units - 122 mm howitzer D-30
        12 units - 152 mm howitzer D-1 (model 1943)
        52 units - 152 mm howitzer D-20
        8 units - 152-mm gun "Hyacinth-B"

        6) Self-propelled artillery - 19 units. (of which 2 were captured as trophies):

        15 units - 122 mm 2S1 "Carnation"
        4 units - 152-mm 2S3 "Acacia"

        7) Multiple launch rocket systems - 72 units. :

        64 units - 122 mm BM-21 "Grad"
        2 units - 273 mm WM-80 (Chinese MLRS)
        1 unit - 220 mm TOS-1A "Solntsepek"
        4 units - 300 mm BM-30 "Smerch"
        1 unit - Unidentified MLRS

        8) OTRK - 1 unit. - P-17 "Scud-B"

        9) Mortars - 16 units.

        10) ATGM - 52 units. captured as trophies incl. 8 TPK and optical devices.

        11) MANPADS - 2 units. Igla-S captured as trophies

        12) Anti-aircraft missile systems - 26 units. :

        3 units - 9K35 "Strela-10"
        14 units - "Wasp" ("Wasp-AKM")
        2 units - 2K12 "Cube"
        5 units PU S-300PS
        1 unit - a machine from the S-300 complex
        1 unit - Tor-M2KM

        13) radar - 12 units. :

        2 units - P-18 / M
        4 units - 36D6 (for S-300)
        1 unit - SNR-125 (for S-125)
        2 units - 5N63S (for S-300)
        1 unit - 19Ж6 (for S-300)
        1 unit - 1S32 (for 2K11 "Circle")
        1 unit - 1S91 (for 2K12 "Cube")

        14) Electronic warfare / REP machines - 2 units. :

        1 unit - R-330P "Pyramid-1"
        1 unit - Repellent-1

        15) Aviation - 1 unit. - Su-25K

        16) UAV - 4 units.

        17) Automotive equipment (Kamaz, Ural, etc.) - 451 (of which 230 were captured as trophies)

        18) False targets - 2 units. (Wasps)

        Losses of Azerbaijan:

        1) Tanks - 30 units. (of which 3 were captured as trophies and later 1 returned to service and 7 damaged):

        1 unit - T-72 "Ural"
        3 units - T-72A
        7 units T-72AV / Aslan
        15 units - unidentified T-72
        3 units - T-90S (2 captured and 1 damaged / hit)

        2) Armored combat vehicles - 21 units. :

        8 unit - BTR-70
        8 units - BTR-82A
        4 units - unidentified armored vehicles
        1 unit - IMR-2 (damaged)

        3) Infantry fighting vehicles - 23 units:

        2 units - BMP-1
        16 units - BMP-2
        1 unit - BMP-2K
        1 units - BMP-3
        3 units - unidentified infantry fighting vehicles

        4) Mortars - 1 units.

        5) Aviation - 1 unit. - Mi-8/17, loss recognized by Azerbaijan

        6) UAV - 36 units.

        11 units - AN-2 (used to open air defense)
        11 units - IAI Harop (UAV-kamikaze)
        2 units - SkyStriker (uav-kamikaze)
        1 unit - Orbiter 1K (uav-kamikaze)
        2 units - Bayraktar TB2 (percussion)
        8 units - unidentified UAVs

        7) Wheeled vehicles, MRAP, transport vehicles - 30 units, of which:

        4 units - Marauder MRAP - (1 damaged, 1 damaged and thrown, 2 thrown)
        4 units - Matador MRAP (3 damaged and 1 thrown)
        7 units - Plasan SandCat
        1. Dreamboat
          Dreamboat 12 November 2020 00: 14
          +2
          The ratio of losses in equipment (as it was according to the videos published) says that there is no ratio of 1: 3 in people in favor of Armenia and never was.
          Let's wait, the information leaked anyway and +/- we will reliably find out.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 00: 24
            0
            There are likely to be approximately equal losses. Azerbaijan at the very beginning and at the end suffered losses, Armenia in the middle of the conflict.
          2. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 00: 40
            +1
            I'm not sure though. Maybe 1 to 2 is. For 1 killed Azerbaijani soldier, 2 killed Armenians. In the next few months it will be seen.
            Today we posted it for example: https://t.me/voenacher/402
        2. Glory1974
          Glory1974 12 November 2020 09: 52
          +2
          11 units - AN-2 (used to open air defense)
          11 units - IAI Harop (UAV-kamikaze)
          2 units - SkyStriker (uav-kamikaze)
          1 unit - Orbiter 1K (uav-kamikaze)

          I think this technique should not be included in casualties, but rather applied ammunition.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 09: 55
            -1
            Yeah, like an ATGM.
        3. Leeds
          Leeds 12 November 2020 10: 56
          +5
          5 units PU S-300PS. Is it 5? I thought there was only one Machine hit.
          The most interesting thing is that Kitty is minus, and these are losses, confirmed by video and photos. It's just the numbers of the plachia and in the campaign game, video is made.

          And the worst thing, even if you miss the point, almost all Armenian on the lists was cut by shock drones, of which we now have zero in service. I hope this will spur the military-industrial complex. We lost AZ well 10, well 40 drones and NOBODY seems to be steaming, people did not die. They will sell oil, buy new ones and even more.
          This is much less painful than those few units lost in Georgia.
          Yes, many years have passed, but we cannot yet carry out such an operation without risking the lives of the pilots. I hope this is a solvable issue.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 11: 01
            0
            Nigeria is already purchasing drone UAVs, and we continue to bury pilots.
            1. Trigger-Happy
              Trigger-Happy 12 November 2020 15: 49
              +1
              Quote: OgnennyiKotik
              and we continue to bury the pilots.

              and we will continue until the capitalists are in power, who regard people as their food base, nothing changes !!!!
            2. nickname7
              nickname7 13 November 2020 12: 28
              +1
              Already Nigeria is purchasing drone UAVs

              The UAV is not only the glider itself, but also control points and a subdivision of operators, in general it is a separate branch of the military.
        4. nobody75
          nobody75 12 November 2020 18: 05
          -2
          Found a normal translation

          In Turkish academies, English is not studied ???
        5. vlad106
          vlad106 13 November 2020 17: 41
          +1
          The Armenians abandoned technicians worth 2,7 billion dollars on the battlefield and ran like hares - feet in front of ears.
          So imagine such allies if something happens.
          But they are good at killing our citizens in Russia. Recent Volgograd case.
          And also to beat pregnant Russian women in the stomach. I remember a case when a migrant Sos Khachikyan, a few years ago, in a mobile phone salon, playing a tote with a psycho, hit a girl with a stomach, later she had a miscarriage.
    3. Dron_sk
      Dron_sk 13 November 2020 12: 09
      -2
      Bayraktar only 2 pieces destroyed during the entire conflict? Despite the fact that it was these UAVs that were the main striking force, according to local articles. This is a complete fiasco.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 13 November 2020 12: 21
        -1
        Well, it's confirmed. Maybe more, but not essential. In general, 26 downed Bayraktars are known for Syria, Libya and Karabakh. Provided that only Turkey ordered 151 pieces (this is information 2-3 years ago) and the price for its army is 2-3 million dollars for 1 plane without a ground station.
  3. SaLaR
    SaLaR 11 November 2020 11: 25
    -4
    Meli Emelya is your week .......... I do not think that we will find out the truth how many died ... and how many more will die.
  4. g1v2
    g1v2 11 November 2020 11: 30
    22
    The issue of loss is a matter of perception. 15 thousand people who died in 10 years in Afghanistan were a shock for the late USSR. And during the Second World War, so many people died sometimes in a day and these losses did not break the country. request
    The main question is who won. For Azeri, this is an acceptable price to pay for victory. 10-15 thousand killed and wounded for a country of 10 million is not catastrophic.
    For Armenia, against the backdrop of defeat, even smaller losses than those of the Azeri will be a national shock. All and sundry will speculate on them. Pashinyan will be asked - why did they die if Armenia capitulated?
    At the same time, if Azerbaijan simply did not voice its losses, closing social networks and introducing censorship, then Armenia lied about its own. Many Armenians were convinced that their losses were meager and victory was near. In general, all and sundry will begin to speculate on this topic inside the country.
    1. Mar.Tirah
      Mar.Tirah 11 November 2020 13: 21
      0
      Quote: g1v2
      Azerbaijan simply did not voice its losses, shutting down social networks and introducing censorship,

      And because he knows that the participation of militants from Turkey will sooner or later manifest itself, including in the form of corpses and wounded, and Putin most likely warned Aliyev and the Sultan that he would not allow their further presence in Karabakh.
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 11 November 2020 15: 05
        +9
        Mercenaries from Syria - were open secret and nobody really worried. There were no jihadists among them. Simply because the Azeri are Shiites and for the same nusrachs they are disgusting than cats. The "moderate opposition" in Syria has consistently offered to kill all Shiites and their Alawite friends, whom the Shiites have recognized as their own. To fight for the Shia ideological jihadists? belay Only members of the pro-Turkish green sleep and groups of Turkomans went to the Azerbaijani border service for a contract. And there were not many of them. Unfortunately, hardly more than 2 thousand. It is better, of course, that more of them went there. The more they close their eyes in NKR, Libya, etc., the easier it will be for us during the next operation in Idlib. And should there be at least some benefit from the Armenian "allies"? Otherwise, they are ready to go to Iraq, Afghanistan and Mali at the call of NATO, but not to Syria. Well, the war came to them with home delivery. request
        1. Igor Semenov
          Igor Semenov 12 November 2020 20: 55
          +3
          nastier than cats
          Muslim cats are not nasty. It is allowed to find cats in living quarters and even mosques. Dirty animals are dogs. Otherwise I agree wink
    2. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 11 November 2020 17: 32
      +1
      15 thousand people who died in 10 years in Afghanistan were a shock for the late USSR. And during the Second World War, so many people died sometimes in a day and these losses did not break the country.

      The difference in perceptions of losses in these wars is quite interrelated.
      After the unprecedented bloody massacre of the Russian population in World War II, losses in the "15 thousand per day" format can no longer be perceived by the Russians as something acceptable. In principle, the same thing happened as with the French after the First World War. Even the rhetoric and actions are similar ("if only there was no war"). In addition, by 1979, Russians had become mostly urban populations with a completely different type of reproduction - peasant families with 10-15 children were a thing of the past, routine infant mortality, too, and average life expectancy increased (there were more elderly people).
      In short, the usual processes characteristic of the European peoples of the 20th century. Only with some delay.
  5. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 11 November 2020 11: 33
    +7
    The wars in the Caucasus never ended, only peaceful periods ended ..
  6. Leshy1975
    Leshy1975 11 November 2020 11: 39
    -9
    Especially for gentlemen, admirers of "talents" of Mr. Putin V.V. Who gave a grudge yesterday that there could be no Turkish peacekeepers, because Masha Zakharova herself said so. And Putin and the Russian Foreign Ministry never lie, everyone already knows that. Well, Azerbaijan was a little offended that he was a liar and published a little. Watch video from 4 min
    Have a good day, gentlemen zaputintsy. lol
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 11: 46
      -8
      The shooters painted everything perfectly. From 2 to 25 minutes.
    2. mister-red
      mister-red 11 November 2020 11: 49
      11
      I didn't quite understand the passage. Both Putin and Aliyev can say whatever they want, but there is a document.
      Show me where the Turkish peacekeepers are registered there.
      PS As a matter of fact, Aliyev's speech is more quickly directed at the internal audience.
      1. mister-red
        mister-red 11 November 2020 11: 51
        +6
        So that you don't waste your precious time, here is the text itself. Find something about Turkey there
        A complete ceasefire and all hostilities in the zone of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict are announced from 00:00 Moscow time on November 10, 2020. The Republic of Azerbaijan and the Republic of Armenia, hereinafter referred to as the Parties, stop at their positions.
        The Aghdam region is returned to the Republic of Azerbaijan until November 20, 2020.
        Along the contact line in Nagorno-Karabakh and along the Lachin corridor, a peacekeeping contingent of the Russian Federation is deployed in the amount of 1960 military personnel with small arms, 90 armored personnel carriers, 380 units of automobile and special equipment.
        The peacekeeping contingent of the Russian Federation is being deployed in parallel with the withdrawal of the Armenian armed forces. The duration of the stay of the peacekeeping contingent of the Russian Federation is 5 years, with automatic extension for the next 5-year periods, if none of the Parties declares 6 months before the expiration of the period of intention to terminate the application of this provision.
        In order to increase the effectiveness of control over the implementation of the agreements by the Parties to the conflict, a peacekeeping center is being deployed to control the ceasefire.
        The Republic of Armenia will return the Kelbajar region to the Republic of Azerbaijan by November 15, 2020, and the Lachin region by December 1, 2020. The Lachin corridor (5 km wide), which will ensure the connection of Nagorno-Karabakh with Armenia and at the same time will not affect the city of Shusha, remains under the control of the peacekeeping contingent of the Russian Federation. By agreement of the Parties, in the next three years, a plan for the construction of a new route along the Lachin corridor will be determined, providing communication between Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia, with the subsequent redeployment of the Russian peacekeeping contingent to protect this route. The Republic of Azerbaijan guarantees the safety of traffic along the Lachin corridor of citizens, vehicles and goods in both directions.
        Internally displaced persons and refugees are returning to the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh and adjacent areas under the control of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
        There is an exchange of prisoners of war, hostages and other detained persons and bodies of the dead.
        All economic and transport links in the region are unblocked. The Republic of Armenia guarantees the safety of transport links between the western regions of the Republic of Azerbaijan and the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic in order to organize the unimpeded movement of citizens, vehicles and goods in both directions. Control over transport communication is carried out by the bodies of the Border Guard Service of the FSB of Russia.
        1. vlad106
          vlad106 13 November 2020 18: 15
          0
          A peacekeeping contingent of the Russian Federation in the amount of 1960 troops with small arms is deployed along the contact line in Nagorno-Karabakh and along the Lachin corridor, 90
          Quote: mister-red
          guarantees the safety of traffic along the Lachin corridor of citizens, vehicles and goods in both directions.
          Internally displaced persons and refugees are returning to the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh and adjacent areas under the control of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.



          watched the columns of those leaving Karabakh ...
          oh, and weapons will go to Armenia in trucks and cars along with junk.
          for example, in the truck of one Karabakh Armenian carrying in the back, including hives with bees, dozens of small arms and a couple of hundred of TNT can be hidden.
          and then it will flow from Armenia to Russia.
          It is necessary to close any direction towards Russia.
          And those trying to penetrate need to be shocked to the fullest, since the cunning asses will go to all kinds of tricks: hide under the hem of pregnant women, babies in strollers ...
          We all remember a series of terrorist attacks staged by Armenian Dashnaks in the Moscow Metro and shops in the 77th
      2. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 11 November 2020 12: 14
        -7
        Quote: mister-red
        I didn't quite understand the passage. Both Putin and Aliyev can say whatever they want, but there is a document.
        Show me where the Turkish peacekeepers are registered there.
        PS As a matter of fact, Aliyev's speech is more quickly directed at the internal audience.

        I show:
        paragraph 5. In order to improve the effectiveness of control over the implementation by the Parties to the conflict of the agreements, ceasefire peacekeeping center.

        source Izvestia from 10.11.2020: The parties can agree on the implementation of individual elements of the operation with Turkey, since its presence in Azerbaijan cannot be ignored.

        TASS source from 10.11.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX: Turkey's role is limited by the the Russian-Turkish ceasefire control center and is not directly related to the peacekeeping operation. It is being created on the Azerbaijani territory, not adjacent to Nagorno-Karabakh. It is assumed that from this center the Russian military, together with their Turkish colleagues, will monitor compliance with the ceasefire using the technical means at their disposal.

        PS So in the document, the joint control centers with the Turks are also not spelled out. But proceeding from point 5 (see above) and taking into account the actual implementation of this point, namely the direct participation of the Turkish military in the work of such a peacekeeping center, then Turkey is exactly a participant in the peacekeeping process. And for this it is not at all necessary for the Turkish military to beat their boots in joint exits with our military. Although who can forbid them if something happens.
        And everything else is just idle chatter of representatives of the authorities of the Russian Federation. When the desired is passed off as valid (again see paragraph 5 of the agreement). hi
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 12: 31
          -4
          It is enough for the Turks to settle in Shusha to control the entire necessary territory. The main thing is that they are not responsible for anything. They can send 2 soldiers, they can 2000, they can 20000, they want to use armored vehicles, they want tanks with MLRS and air defense. Complete freedom of action. Moreover, in any case, their flag is on this territory.
          1. Skarpzd
            Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 02
            0
            damn pancake ... I'm far from a supporter of GDP, but what for is the shadow on the fence? there will be no Turkish peacekeepers. as I understand it, there will be something reminiscent of the OSCE. well, there will be Turkish representatives. on agreement of the parties. So what????
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 12: 04
              +1
              Quote: Skarpzd
              there will be no Turkish peacekeepers

              Yes, there will be no Turkish peacekeepers. There will be a Turkish Army. This is many times worse.
              1. Skarpzd
                Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 07
                +1
                on the territory of Azerbaijan? so they have been there for a long time. and personally I do not know what we (RF) can do about it at the moment.
    3. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 11 November 2020 11: 57
      14
      you sometimes start to understand what they are talking about and what they are talking about. I understand that your hatred for Putin is already pathological. but damn it is possible to perceive information as normal? just read carefully and end the chapito - there is no connection between the peacekeeping mission in Nagorno-Karabakh and the Turkish-Russian center located in Azerbaijan. Turkey's actions are limited to the formation of a department to ensure that both sides adhere to the ceasefire. Ankara has nothing to do with the peacekeeping forces, which are located on the line of contact, as the center will be installed far from Karabakh. THERE WILL NOT BE THERE TURKISH PEACEKEEPERS ON THE LINE OF LIMITATION! comprende ?! no one else said or stated anything else! only RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS will be in Karabakh!
      1. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 11 November 2020 12: 22
        -11 qualifying.
        Quote: carstorm 11
        you sometimes start to understand what they are talking about and what they are talking about. I understand that your hatred for Putin is already pathological. but damn it is possible to perceive information as normal? just read carefully and end the chapito - there is no connection between the peacekeeping mission in Nagorno-Karabakh and the Turkish-Russian center located in Azerbaijan. Turkey's actions are limited to the formation of a department to ensure that both sides adhere to the ceasefire. Ankara has nothing to do with the peacekeeping forces, which are located on the line of contact, as the center will be installed far from Karabakh. THERE WILL NOT BE THERE TURKISH PEACEKEEPERS ON THE LINE OF LIMITATION! comprende ?! no one else said or stated anything else! only RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS will be in Karabakh!

        Only after you, when you begin to understand what you yourself are trying to explain to others. lol There may not be permanent Turkish military on the line of demarcation (and that is not a fact, the future will show). And in the status of peacekeepers, as employees of the peacekeeping center to control the ceasefire, they will definitely be.
        It is quite possible that they will also leave from time to time to monitor compliance with the ceasefire.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 11 November 2020 12: 45
          +8
          Oh Lord ... in my opinion you cannot hear yourself. center on the territory of Azerbaijan. far from Karabakh. what sadness do you have who is sitting there? no Turkish contingent on the contact line will be peacekeeping. for some reason you argue with that. Zakharova said exactly that. As the others. nothing else was said. we have the same center with Ukraine. does not decide anything, does not affect anything.
          1. Leshy1975
            Leshy1975 11 November 2020 13: 27
            -12 qualifying.
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Oh Lord ... in my opinion you cannot hear yourself. center on the territory of Azerbaijan. far from Karabakh. what sadness do you have who is sitting there? no Turkish contingent on the contact line will be peacekeeping. for some reason you argue with that. Zakharova said exactly that. As the others. nothing else was said. we have the same center with Ukraine. does not decide anything, does not affect anything.


            1) I have not written anywhere that the Turks are obliged to be on the line of demarcation all the time.
            2) I initially wrote about the Turks in the status of peacekeepers in Karabakh, which Masha Zakharova denied yesterday, emphasizing exclusively on the line of demarcation.
            source Lenta, ru:
            As stated in the Russian Foreign Ministry, Ankara's role in peacekeeping activities in Nagorno-Karabakh is limited to the creation of a Russian-Turkish center to control the ceasefire and is not directly related to the peacekeeping operation.
            Here you need to clearly understand what we are talking about no longer about peacekeeping effortsthat are described in the statement, but a completely different mission, another part of a joint effort. We need to separate this, these are different things, ”said Maria Zakharova on the air of the Russia 24 TV channel.

            Zakharova herself understands what she is talking about? If in one sentence he talks about the role of Ankara in peacekeeping activities in NK, and in the other he immediately says that this is not about peacekeeping efforts. The fact that you personally understood it is understandable, but just not clear how. If she contradicts herself. lol

            3) With Ukraine, we have no peacekeeping format at all, none at all. Therefore, what does this example have to do with it, well, maybe you understand yourself, I don't have you.
            4) Created in accordance with clause 5 of the agreement: peacekeeping ceasefire control center.
            Note, it is peacemaking, and not just observant, entertainment, leisure or whatever.
            5) from this center Russian military together with Turkish colleagues will monitor compliance with the truce.
            Notice together. And the Turks are not there as pool cleaners, waiters or some other service staff.
            6) The Turks in this center will have the same status as the Russian military. Peacekeepers operating remotely. But it does not at all follow from this that the Turks will not leave for control on the ground in NK, incl. and to the line of contact.
            7) And this remote location of the peacekeeping center does not affect their status in any way. So Mr. Aliyev did not lie, unlike Kalinka, the Turks will already have the status of peacekeepers. And it was the Kremlin that gave them this opportunity when it agreed to such a joint format with such formulations - a peacekeeping center.

            PS Well, where else in the Caucasus (and is it only in the Caucasus, with Ukraine that the Turks are planning to jointly produce drones) Erdogan wants to prove himself as a "peacemaker", I cannot know that. But I can say that there is a beginning, Turkey has already succeeded. And Putin did not object to Aliyev against such a situation, no matter what Masha Z.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 11 November 2020 14: 00
              +6
              she said exactly what normal people understood quite well. that a peacekeeping operation is one thing and the center is located do not understand where it is different. that the peacekeeping mission is on the Russian military. and the joint center will have a ceasefire tracking function. ours can besiege Armenian Turkish hotheads besiege Azerbaijani. it is the sphere of influence on the parties to the conflict. ... and I ask you again, what sadness do you have, what will several dozen officers do on the territory of Azerbaijan? there are Turkish officers and so the crowd of figs knows how many years. the demarcation zone is completely different functions and specificity. their task is to stand between the two sides of the conflict. and the Turks won't be there. all your speculations and so on, leave it to yourself. I rely on facts. you don’t understand at all what it means to go to the conflict zone and even how it happens. there are clear schedules and actions for this. they may be denied or allowed. a joint center with Ukraine is doing the same-NOTHING! just 75 officers are on business trips for three months. then change the composition.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 11 November 2020 14: 51
                +4
                just turn on the MO briefing there it says it all clearly. who runs the mission who coordinates. management special center MO. coordination of the special headquarters of the Ministry of Defense. there are no Turks there.
            2. Skarpzd
              Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 04
              +2
              strange. there is only one text, but you understand it somehow in your own way .. you learned to read from the Ukrainians?
    4. January
      January 11 November 2020 12: 20
      0
      Messrs. Zaputins saw how Aliyev crammed a curtsey to the Turks into his speech. But they did not understand where in the treaty what they say about "Turkish peacekeepers". Well, we understood whom "Leshy1975" does not like much :)))
    5. Kapany3
      Kapany3 11 November 2020 12: 21
      +3
      And what is it that we did not know he published? Initially it was SPEAKED about it. Only the quantitative and qualitative composition of the Turkish mission is nowhere to be found. And they did not sign the agreement. So have a good day and you, sir, all wasted.
      1. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 11 November 2020 12: 32
        -9
        Quote: Kapany3
        And what is it that we did not know he published? Initially it was SPEAKED about it. Only the quantitative and qualitative composition of the Turkish mission is nowhere to be found. And they did not sign the agreement. So have a good day and you, sir, all wasted.

        And where did I write that everything was lost? After all, you wrote it. And I just showed how the authorities of the Russian Federation tell a little untruth and constantly wishful thinking. Am I laughing at you, her admirers, in that case? Sure. laughing As in all other cases, he also laughed, for example here: Before the adoption of the so-called pension reform, Anton Siluanov said in all seriousness that today's pensioners will live much richer, therefore will be able to afford to travel around the world and help their grandchildren. laughing

        PS Although I know it's a sin to laugh ... ... hi
      2. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 11 November 2020 12: 48
        +3
        not a mission, but employees of the control center. these are several officers.
    6. CSKA
      CSKA 11 November 2020 12: 39
      +3
      Quote: Leshy1975
      Especially for gentlemen, admirers of "talents" of Mr. Putin V.V.

      For whiners who can't read, read the document.
      Quote: Leshy1975
      Have a nice day, gentlemen zaputintsy

      ))))) So they are so successful with us, in contrast to you. If you had good ones, they would not whine on the forums in every article.))))))
      1. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 11 November 2020 12: 50
        -9
        Quote: CSKA
        Quote: Leshy1975
        Especially for gentlemen, admirers of "talents" of Mr. Putin V.V.

        For whiners who can't read, read the document.
        Quote: Leshy1975
        Have a nice day, gentlemen zaputintsy

        ))))) So they are so successful with us, in contrast to you. If you had good ones, they would not whine on the forums in every article.))))))

        And then, you can even raise a toast to the successes of Turkish weapons. Once such luck fell out. hi
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 11 November 2020 13: 10
          +6
          Quote: Leshy1975
          And then, you can even raise a toast to the successes of Turkish weapons. Once such luck fell

          I'd rather raise a glass for our diplomacy, which has once again settled a very complex conflict.
    7. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 14: 36
      +3
      I will note that a joint peacekeeping center will be created and Turkish troops will be deployed, not peacekeepers. This is many times worse. Peacekeepers are limited in their rights, the army is not. It is enough for the Turks to place troops in 2 points (in principle, just Shushi is enough) to control the whole situation. Maps for clarity.

      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 11 November 2020 14: 51
        +1
        there will be no Turks in Karabakh. it was said quite specifically.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 14: 54
          +3
          Quote: carstorm 11
          there will be no Turks in Karabakh

          I agree to 140% They will be on the sovereign Azerbaijani territory.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 11 November 2020 14: 54
            0
            they have been there for a very long time)
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 15: 00
              +1
              Only now the residents of Stepanakert, looking to the south, will see the flags of Azerbaijan and Turkey. And Turkish soldiers and officers viewed Stepanakert and our peacekeepers in the scope of their sights.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 11 November 2020 15: 04
                +3
                Well, what can you do about it?) this is the world now. they are on us we are on them. Azerbaijan has long been completely pro-Turkish and their military has great influence there. As for the residents of Stepanakert, let Pashinyan scold their own. like their other leaders.
                1. Skarpzd
                  Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 13
                  0
                  agree with you. the situation is curious. in fact: on the territory of "sovereign" Azerbaijan there are the armed forces of the NATO member country Turkey and the CSTO member country Russia. and "independent" President Aliyev will not be able to do anything about it for at least 5 years. we'll see)))
          2. Azimuth
            Azimuth 12 November 2020 03: 45
            +1
            So Turks are at home in Azerbaijan, they need it ...
    8. g1v2
      g1v2 11 November 2020 15: 09
      +1
      And you do not have to be ill. Azerbaijan will host 2 Russian paratroopers and motorized riflemen and 3 Turkish crippled observers with binoculars. Maybe even with a drone, that is, high-tech binoculars. Personally, it suits me. But you can protest the Sexual Reform League. Well, or somewhere else, but we live in a free country. wink
    9. Hypertension
      Hypertension 11 November 2020 16: 18
      +4
      What about Putin's diction? Or it seemed to me?
      1. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 11 November 2020 17: 01
        -3
        Quote: Hyperion
        What about Putin's diction? Or it seemed to me?

        I also paid attention to this. Well, old already. It is possible that indeed Parkinson's disease or some other disease, at his age, one can assume anything.
      2. Skarpzd
        Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 15
        0
        what about diction? did not notice. breakdowns for speech so they are always present ..
        1. Hypertension
          Hypertension 12 November 2020 13: 47
          -2
          Lisps and lips twitch between words. I had never noticed this with him before. It seems as if new teeth have been made to him, and he has not yet got used to them.
    10. Rubina
      Rubina 12 November 2020 00: 21
      0
      And I don't have to take my words back about the Turkish peacekeepers.
      1. Skarpzd
        Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 17
        0
        please don’t take it. just announce the number, tasks, deadlines. the location of the center. part numbers do not ask. do not understand yet))
    11. Dron_sk
      Dron_sk 13 November 2020 12: 33
      -1
      Putin is a bit soft. Aliyev looks more cheerful against his background and speaks Russian much more clearly ... Putin seems to be ... mumbling ... Yes, even the much older Biden looks more cheerful against his background.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Timofey Charuta
    Timofey Charuta 11 November 2020 12: 54
    +1
    I understand that the losses of Azerbaijan are considerable (comparable or even more than those of the Armenians), since they agreed to a truce and an end to the offensive. And they agreed suspiciously quickly. Well, they took Shusha and would advance further. The Azerbaijani flag over Stepanakert is worth a lot!

    The experience of previous wars shows that in the event of a crushing defeat of the enemy, it is practically impossible to stop. Only in case of direct threats from a strong third player (like Russia).
    Only in this way did the USSR stop Israel before.

    I don't believe in direct Russian threats to Azerbaijanis, which means that their losses are too great, and therefore they calmed down so quickly. Storming the mountains - big blood
    no matter what Armenians are militarily backward. It seems this is called the critical loss level ...

    If someone knows more - do not hide, tell the truth ...
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 13: 06
      +6
      Several points.
      1. Depletion of resources. Primarily in aviation and guided weapons. Human losses in Azerbaijan are insignificant in quantity, but qualitatively high. Special forces, DRG, mountain troops fought. They need to be protected a little. A further offensive would lead to a multiple increase in losses in the elite units.
      2. International reaction, pressure on the Turkish-Azerbaijani coalition began to be stronger. A little more and real sanctions would begin.
      3. The position of Moscow, the complete liberation of Karabakh is not beneficial to us. This would mean the loss of Armenia and Azerbaijan. Their entry into NATO, in one form or another. Now we have blocked it, and Armenia does not rock anywhere at all, if the Turks simply tear it apart, they understand this.
      4. No victory in Karabakh would give a corridor to Nakhichevan, and then to Turkey. This is what Erdogan needs for further expansion into Central Asia and both countries for economic development.
      1. CSKA
        CSKA 11 November 2020 13: 13
        -3
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        1. Depletion of resources. Primarily in aviation and guided weapons. Human losses in Azerbaijan are insignificant in quantity, but qualitatively high. Special forces, DRG, mountain troops fought. They need to be protected a little. A further offensive would lead to a multiple increase in losses in the elite units.
        2. International reaction, pressure on the Turkish-Azerbaijani coalition began to be stronger. A little more and real sanctions would begin.
        3. The position of Moscow, the complete liberation of Karabakh is not beneficial to us. This would mean the loss of Armenia and Azerbaijan. Their entry into NATO, in one form or another. Now we have blocked it, and Armenia does not rock anywhere at all, if the Turks simply tear it apart, they understand this.
        4. No victory in Karabakh would give a corridor to Nakhichevan, and then to Turkey. This is what Erdogan needs for further expansion into Central Asia and both countries for economic development.

        I almost completely agree with you. just try to explain it here to some whiners who already in every article whine about the type of another failure of Russian policy. For me, this is a victory for our diplomacy.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 13: 19
          -6
          Quote: CSKA
          another failure of Russian policy. For me, this is a victory for our diplomacy.

          I'm on a specific situation. With the fact that this is a failure of the foreign policy of the Putin government as a whole, I completely agree. This type of contract in the current situation is the best of the worst.
          In my opinion, Russia should not have allowed this war in principle or stopped it before October 10. Forcing peace economically and in limited military ways. The same calibers at the airfields of Azerbaijan would have cooled them. And military advisers with the latest weapons did not interfere with the Armenians.
          1. CSKA
            CSKA 11 November 2020 13: 50
            +4
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            With the fact that this is a failure of the foreign policy of the Putin government as a whole, I completely agree.

            Well, then let’s give an example of how this conflict could be resolved from the beginning?
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            In my opinion, Russia should not have allowed this war in principle or stopped it before October 10. Forcing peace economically

            How would you economically compel Azerbaijan?
            \
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            Forcing peace economically and in limited military ways. The same calibers at the airfields of Azerbaijan would have cooled them

            Well yes. And so we would have lost Azerbaijan as a friendly state and economic partner for very many years.
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            And military advisers with the latest weapons did not interfere with the Armenians.

            Yeah, but the advisers won't make a combat unit out of a backward army in a week. And of course it would be possible to put S-400, Pantsiri, Torah, but our guys would have to work in them and do you think the Azerbaijanis would not notice it? The Armenians had Iskander OTRK and Su-30SM, why didn't they use them?
            This conflict is very complicated because we cannot lose both countries here. And what you propose is to take one of the sides and automatically lose the other.
            And at the moment, how it happened. We have not lost either side. Besides, Pashinyan and his Soros are likely to be removed. And the conflict is over. neither the United States nor France could do this.
          2. Skarpzd
            Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 30
            +2
            calibers is it on what basis ?? How did military advisers and the latest weapons help the Armenians? well, just how do you imagine it? Karabakh is not recognized by anyone. even by the Armenians themselves. the armed forces of armenia were not used. the government of armenia declared war on azerbaijan ??? and on the basis of all this, you propose to iron Azerbaijan (which, whatever you say, is fighting for its own)? I personally do not see any reason to get involved in the war on the side of Armenia, especially since the politicians of Armenia are extremely anti-Russian.
        2. Rubina
          Rubina 12 November 2020 00: 25
          +3
          Whiners live by the realities of the past - the Turks are enemies; the current realities - Turks and Persians - if not allies, then partners against the West. This is exactly what Armenia missed and Azerbaijan understood.
          1. Skarpzd
            Skarpzd 12 November 2020 12: 34
            0
            Well, what about the fact that the Turks are partners ..... I just immediately remembered Assad. they are such partners with Erdogan, but what is there - they were friends with families !!! do you know further? to believe the Turks is suicide
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 13 November 2020 20: 55
              +1
              Quote: Skarpzd
              to believe the Turks is suicide

              believe? belay and who do you suggest to believe? maybe the Germans? laughing won Yanukovych believed wink
              1. Skarpzd
                Skarpzd 14 November 2020 02: 37
                +2
                as usual - to nobody. situational companions can be. but only.
      2. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 11 November 2020 13: 38
        -4
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        Several points.
        1. Depletion of resources. Primarily in aviation and guided weapons. Human losses in Azerbaijan are insignificant in quantity, but qualitatively high. Special forces, DRG, mountain troops fought. They need to be protected a little. A further offensive would lead to a multiple increase in losses in the elite units.
        2. International reaction, pressure on the Turkish-Azerbaijani coalition began to be stronger. A little more and real sanctions would begin.
        3. The position of Moscow, the complete liberation of Karabakh is not beneficial to us. This would mean the loss of Armenia and Azerbaijan. Their entry into NATO, in one form or another. Now we have blocked it, and Armenia does not rock anywhere at all, if the Turks simply tear it apart, they understand this.
        4. No victory in Karabakh would give a corridor to Nakhichevan, and then to Turkey. This is what Erdogan needs for further expansion into Central Asia and both countries for economic development.

        good I agree 100% with your vision of the situation. And I completely agree that the Russian Federation was forced to choose from the worst options that were imposed on it. This analytics is really interesting for me to read. hi
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 13: 56
          -7
          Thank you.
          But in the long run it is a big loss. In the Caucasus and Asia (and throughout the world) the right of the strong is valid. Turkey has shown its strength, received a corridor to Central Asia, its flag on the territory of Karabakh. Anger against Russia will grow in Armenia, for her we have taken the side of Azerbaijan and are performing the tasks necessary for her. Integration of Turkey with Azerbaijan will grow, right up to the union state. The Turkish fleet in the Caspian ... I expect that Biden and Erdogan will reconcile the countries and conclude a cooperation agreement. England, the United States and Turkey have common interests.
          Russia in a short time stopped the integration of Armenia with the West, created points of instability, but you have to pay for this. Armenia is poor, we take it in tow. Plus 2000 soldiers look more like hostages than real force. The Turks can destroy this entire group in a matter of hours.
          In general, you can steer out of the situation, but I'm afraid that not under the current government.
          1. Dmitry Makarov
            Dmitry Makarov 11 November 2020 18: 39
            +1
            Friend, why all these fantasies?
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 11 November 2020 18: 48
              -1
              It's a shame for the state.
          2. CSKA
            CSKA 12 November 2020 14: 05
            +1
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            Turkey showed its strength, got a corridor to Central Asia

            Where did you see this corridor?
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            own flag on the territory of Karabakh.

            He is not there, as well as a military base, unlike us.
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            Anger against Russia will grow in Armenia, for her we sided with Azerbaijan

            And if you sided with Armenia as you wanted, you would lose Azerbaijan.
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            Integration of Turkey with Azerbaijan will grow, right up to the union state.

            And before that they were not allies?))))) And what kind of integration are you talking about? One state? Aliyev will not give up power.
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            Turkish fleet in the Caspian

            )))) Well it started. If Azerbaijan would have wanted another 5-10 years ago, it could have given a base in the Caspian Sea, if Turkey wanted, but why is it there? Aby bulo. The sea is closed. Will they carry the frigate there by air?
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            I expect Biden and Erdogan to reconcile countries and conclude a cooperation agreement

            You have probably forgotten that they wanted to remove Erdogan under the Democrats and Vice President Biden. And just because Biden became president of the S-400, will he forgive Turkey?
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            England, the United States and Turkey have common interests.

            In Libya, offshore Greece and Cyprus? Definitely not.
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            created points of instability

            We created?))))) What are you talking about?
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            Armenia is poor, we take it in tow

            You are already just braiding everything. Why do we take her in tow? By the fact that we are deploying peacekeepers in Karabakh?
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            Plus 2000 soldiers look more like hostages than a real force. The Turks can destroy this entire group in a matter of hours.

            First of all, why would the Turks want to destroy this group? Secondly, why didn't they destroy the Armenian army in Karabakh in a matter of hours?
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            In general, you can steer out of the situation, but I'm afraid that not under the current government.

            ))))) Here is the logical finish of all this your writing. Everything turns out to be bad and turns out to be due to power. But everything is far-fetched. And the most interesting thing. Turkey will suddenly, for no reason at all, suddenly attack our peacekeepers, and at the same time you write above advice that it was necessary to calm down the Azerbaijanis with calibers, while in Armenia we also have a base on which Turkey could strike for Azerbaijan.
            At least you yourself understand that you have a complete lack of logic for solving the problem in the Transcaucasus. All of your passages are made just to try and paint power in a bad color.
  9. Thompson
    Thompson 11 November 2020 15: 02
    +3
    How easy it is to be smart at the keyboard, let alone a politician, strategist and tactician ... only the Suvorovs and Kutuzovs.
  10. Old tanker
    Old tanker 11 November 2020 17: 41
    0
    The author has obvious problems with arithmetic. And with logic. Compare the sanitary losses of the parties to the Karabakh conflict with those irrecoverable in Afghanistan.
  11. Dmitry Makarov
    Dmitry Makarov 11 November 2020 18: 31
    +1
    Thanks to the Russians, they finally stopped this fratricidal war.
  12. Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets 11 November 2020 23: 04
    +2
    Quote: Leshy1975
    Quote: carstorm 11
    you sometimes start to understand what they are talking about and what they are talking about. I understand that your hatred for Putin is already pathological. but damn it is possible to perceive information as normal? just read carefully and end the chapito - there is no connection between the peacekeeping mission in Nagorno-Karabakh and the Turkish-Russian center located in Azerbaijan. Turkey's actions are limited to the formation of a department to ensure that both sides adhere to the ceasefire. Ankara has nothing to do with the peacekeeping forces, which are located on the line of contact, as the center will be installed far from Karabakh. THERE WILL NOT BE THERE TURKISH PEACEKEEPERS ON THE LINE OF LIMITATION! comprende ?! no one else said or stated anything else! only RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS will be in Karabakh!

    Only after you, when you begin to understand what you yourself are trying to explain to others. lol There may not be permanent Turkish military on the line of demarcation (and that is not a fact, the future will show). And in the status of peacekeepers, as employees of the peacekeeping center to control the ceasefire, they will definitely be.
    It is quite possible that they will also leave from time to time to monitor compliance with the ceasefire.

    and it is very important in what status of the Turks in Azerbaijan? And in fact they have been there for a long time. What will change? What will they mean? Didn't you have it before?
  13. Vladimir Volk
    Vladimir Volk 11 November 2020 23: 20
    +1
    Again, the Armenians deceived them again .... They killed 10 times more. defended themselves, realized that now they would be surrounded and already they would lose 10 times more, immediately capitulated and hid behind the backs of the Russian peacekeepers ..
  14. The comment was deleted.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 12 November 2020 09: 41
      +1
      The list contains 7770 names of missing citizens whose fate remains unknown due to the conflicts in the North Caucasus.

      Have you read this list yourself?
      for some reason, there are no Russian-speaking people who disappeared in the 90s, including on the territory of Chechnya, but there are a lot
      of those who can be identified as participating in gangs. There is also no information about 2500 unidentified corpses buried in the early 2000s due to lack of funds for identification. In general, some kind of one-sided search.
      1. Aibolit
        Aibolit 19 November 2020 00: 01
        0
        Quote: glory1974
        Have you read this list yourself?
        for some reason, there are no Russian-speaking people who disappeared in the 90s, including on the territory of Chechnya, but there are a lot
        of those who can be identified as participating in gangs. There is also no information about 2500 unidentified corpses buried in the early 2000s due to lack of funds for identification. In general, some kind of one-sided search.


        slavik ... why fart in vain?
        1.I read
        2. Well, bring YOUR LIST (righteous)!
        What is your problem Slavik?
  15. HaByxoDaBHocep
    HaByxoDaBHocep 12 November 2020 02: 05
    +3
    Azerbaijan won, Armenia lost, this is understandable, Putin won what kind of victory here? Why are his admirers happy?
    1. Asad
      Asad 12 November 2020 05: 42
      0
      It seems to me that Azerbaijan was not strong and wanted to advance further, they occupied important points. And the closer to the border with Armenia, the greater the opportunity to bomb something on their territory.
  16. plohoy
    plohoy 12 November 2020 08: 07
    0
    [media = https: //vk.com/video237889048_456239024] All politics in one video, especially about Armenia. https://vk.com/video237889048_456239024
  17. certero
    certero 12 November 2020 08: 43
    +1
    actually, right now, sanitary losses in the same percentage are wrong. Thus, medicine and care have become much better.
    1. Azimuth
      Azimuth 12 November 2020 10: 21
      -2
      The Armenians had a problem with logistics and beds. The Turks helped the Azerbaijanis, some of the wounded were taken to Ganja and from there either to Baku or to Turkey.
      I don’t think that the Armenians had the same ability and someone was accepted, for example, by our Burdenko.

      By the way, for the absence of such assistance, for example, if it was not there, if they applied and did not receive it, the Armenians have the right to be offended, but not because we did not fight on their side outside their borders.
  18. Anton Yu
    Anton Yu 12 November 2020 09: 05
    0
    I think neither side will write down mercenaries and foreign volunteers in their losses. This will also affect the counting difference.
  19. Glory1974
    Glory1974 12 November 2020 09: 46
    +1
    If we talk about general sanitary losses (wounded, sick, shell-shocked, traumatized), then they, as a rule, in conditions of modern hostilities exceed the number of those killed by 2-3 times.

    I disagree. Experience shows that in modern conditions, thanks to the use of personal body armor, the ratio of the killed to the wounded becomes 4-5 to 1, and with a good level of field medicine, even more.
    the attackers do not always suffer greater losses than the defenders. here military art and technical equipment play an important role.
    Therefore, to estimate without real information is the floor, finger, ceiling. request
  20. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 12 November 2020 10: 12
    +2
    It is clear that Armenia has lost five times more military personnel than Azerbaijan. The military defeat of Armenia was complete.
    Probably, in the last week of the war, when they were making their way to Shushi, Azerbaijan suffered more losses than in the entire previous month + plus.
  21. APASUS
    APASUS 12 November 2020 10: 19
    0
    As a rule, the losses of the attacking side are always greater, but there are still many questions: to consider, for example, the Syrians killed for Azerbaijan, or to consider only the locals?
  22. Azimuth
    Azimuth 12 November 2020 10: 24
    +1
    Quote: Anton Yu
    I think neither side will write down mercenaries and foreign volunteers in their losses. This will also affect the counting difference.

    There were no mercenaries there, both sides were playing the info war. Azerbaijan's borders were closed, even Azerbaijanis citizens of Azerbaijan could not enter. Azerbaijan does not particularly hide information on the identities of the victims; independent sources are also counting on social networks, etc. And I think they will.
    Ethnic Armenians from different countries entered Armenia, formally they did not have the right to participate in the war, in fact and there was no sense from them, and could not be in such a war, we know about the dead. They will announce as soon as all provisions and obligations on the withdrawal of their troops are fulfilled, now it is tantamount to a bomb.
  23. Cotton Colorado
    Cotton Colorado 12 November 2020 14: 56
    -1
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Confirmed losses of equipment:

    Armenia / Republic of Artsakh

    Tanks (185, of which destroyed: 115, damaged: 4, captured: 66)

    Armored fighting vehicles (44, of which destroyed: 24, captured: 20)

    Infantry fighting vehicles (43, of which destroyed: 21, captured: 22)

    Surface-to-air missile systems (26, of which destroyed: 26)
    3 9K35 Strela-10: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed)
    14 9K33 Osa:
    2 2K12 Kub: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed by loitering munition)
    5 5P85S
    1 S-300 component: (1, destroyed)
    1 Tor-M2KM: (1, destroyed by loitering munition)

    Jammers and Deception systems (2, of which destroyed: 2)
    1 R-330P Piramida-I: (1, destroyed)
    1 Repellent-1: (1, destroyed)

    Aircraft (1, of which destroyed: 1)
    1 Su-25K (1, crashed)

    Azerbaijan

    Tanks (30, of which destroyed: 19, damaged: 7, abandoned: 1, captured: 2, captured but later lost: 1)

    Armored fighting vehicles (13, of which damaged: 1, abandoned: 4, captured: 8)

    Infantry fighting vehicles (31, of which destroyed: 16, damaged: 2, abandoned: 4, captured: 9)

    Aircraft and Helicopters (12, of which destroyed: 12)
    11 An-2
    1 Mi-8/17 (Loss admitted by Azerbaijan)

    Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (25, of which destroyed: 22, captured: 3)
    1 Aerostar surveillance UAV: ​​(1, crashed)
    11 IAI Harop loitering munition:
    1 SkyStriker loitering munition:
    1 Orbiter 1K loitering munition: (1, crashed and captured)
    2 Bayraktar TB2 UCAV: (1, crashed) (2, destroyed)
    8 Unknown UAV:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html#comment-form

    Forgot to mention about YARS
  24. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 12 November 2020 16: 46
    0
    I wonder where in the end the Armenians thrashed with Iskander?
  25. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 12 November 2020 17: 08
    0
    Especially considering that the attacking side always loses more personnel than the defending side.
    far from always, if, with complete air supremacy, the attacking side first destroys everything that can be destroyed from the air, then the losses during the attack are reduced several times, which we observed
  26. Azimuth
    Azimuth 12 November 2020 18: 51
    +1
    Quote: Incvizitor
    I wonder where in the end the Armenians thrashed with Iskander?

    Where the hands-ons tried to get it only God knows. The side of the Khirdalan - Pumping strip flew. For example here:
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3271747.html
    They shot down missiles in the air, the explosion was strong, judging by the VC, the floor of Baku woke up.
    1. Homeland
      Homeland 13 November 2020 10: 39
      0
      I myself personally heard the sound of an explosion.
  27. certero
    certero 12 November 2020 20: 00
    0
    Quote: Azimuth
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3271747.html
    shot down missiles in the air, the explosion was strong, judging by the VC, the floor of Baku woke up

    How did they shoot down Iskander?
    1. Azimuth
      Azimuth 13 November 2020 15: 22
      -1
      Why did you decide that you were beating Iskander-E OTRK? I do not think that the Armenians were ready to risk this OTRK, and the Azerbaijani UAVs apparently almost constantly herded them. Well, plus then there is no way to get away with it, from the word completely and to untie the hands of Azerbaijan.
  28. Darkspy
    Darkspy 12 November 2020 21: 24
    0
    А
    The loss of Azerbaijan is certainly greater, miracles do not happen. Azeirbatsjan was the attacking side.
    1. Azimuth
      Azimuth 13 November 2020 15: 24
      -1
      Let's see what at least the Armenians will publish, this will determine the level of losses.
  29. Homeland
    Homeland 13 November 2020 10: 37
    0
    Part of the military equipment captured by Azerbaijan will be demonstrated during a military parade in Baku. The date of the parade has not yet been specified.
  30. Azimuth
    Azimuth 14 November 2020 13: 02
    0
    Quote: Homeland
    Part of the military equipment captured by Azerbaijan will be demonstrated during a military parade in Baku. The date of the parade has not yet been specified.

    Postrelated your media, nothing about the parade.

    Preliminary data, the loss of the killed, as I was explained by the speech about the upper planks, may be slightly lower after the completion of the exchange of bodies, prisoners and clarification of the fate of the missing:
    - Armenia 6000 people;
    - Azerbaijan 7300 people.

    In some settlements, 10-20 bodies of the dead began to be issued at once, so the account there is really large and it's good that both sides overcame temptations and fears and stopped. The scale of the number of retired people, taking into account sanitary losses, is easy to imagine, apparently already fought and the second wave on each side.
  31. Azimuth
    Azimuth 17 November 2020 02: 18
    0

    There was a video showing the losses of the Azerbaijani special forces.
  32. Sergey79
    Sergey79 17 November 2020 17: 41
    0
    ... does not carry any information in itself.