Rokossovsky's mistake

Our border is on the Kursk Bulge!

In this year of the 75th anniversary of the Victory, when we again and again remember every single episode of the Great Patriotic War, I would like to once again turn to the summer of 1943. Kursk Bulge. 18 border guards of a platoon under the command of Lieutenant Alexander Romanovsky are ordered to occupy a strategically important height and hold it until reinforcements arrive.

They didn't even have time to dig in, when enemy infantry appeared with the support of armored personnel carriers and lungs tanks... The border guards took a long battle, destroyed many of the Nazis, knocked out several enemy vehicles, and when there was no ammunition left, they fought the enemy hand-to-hand. All eighteen, along with their commander, were killed.

The command of the notorious 70th Army, formed from the NKVD troops, in which the border guards and servicemen of the internal troops fought, presented all the dead for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union.

The 70th Army, which was sometimes called that - the army of the NKVD troops, was formed by the beginning of 1943 far in the rear - from Tashkent to Khabarovsk, and immediately equated in rights with guards units and formations. First, the 70 was sent to the reserve rate, and then to the Central Front. Towards Rokossovsky, near Ponyri, on the northern flank of the Kursk salient.

It is here that an excerpt from one award sheet must be cited. It was signed by the commander of the 224th Pamir Rifle Regiment, Colonel Surzhenkov, to Junior Sergeant Ilyas Arslangereev:

“At the height of the July offensive battles, when the enemy tried to break through to Kursk at any cost, the regiment had the task of occupying a height near the village of Teploye. The platoon of Lieutenant Romanovsky was ordered to block the right flank to regroup the 1st rifle battalion with its exit to the village. Self-styling.

The Germans, taking advantage of the small number of our cover, pulled up to 18 submachine gunners against a platoon of 200 men and, taking advantage of an advantageous position, hiding in the rye, gradually surrounded our platoon. Having guessed the enemy's plan, Lieutenant Romanovsky entered into an unequal battle. Each soldier firmly went to rapprochement with the enemy, burst into the trenches, shot at point-blank range, struck with a bayonet, hit with a shovel.

The Germans backed away, tried to dig in, but the heroes continued to overtake and destroy them. The ranks of the Nazis were thinning. At the site of this intense fire and hand-to-hand combat, 84 German soldiers were killed. Romanovsky and all 18 heroic fighters were killed, but they did not retreat a single step. The command order was carried out. Junior Sergeant IA Arslangereev is worthy of posthumously conferring the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. "

General did not sign

However, the commander of the Central Front, Army General Konstantin Rokossovsky then postponed the signing of the award lists. Only a few months later, he returned to reviewing the feat of the soldiers of the Romanovsky platoon. The general of the army must have thought for a long time, as if remembering what he had experienced in the dungeons of the NKVD in Leningrad and Moscow.

No, Konstantin Konstantinovich has not forgotten anything - neither broken ribs, nor knocked out teeth. And he remembered all his torturers by sight. Being at the front and accidentally catching the eyes of the commander, they were terribly afraid that they would remember the atrocities they had committed.

But Rokossovsky was not like that. Every time he met former flayers in combat conditions, he suppressed his boiling anger. But on that very day, most likely, without understanding in detail the feat of the border guards of the Romanovsky platoon, the general crossed out everything previously proposed by his subordinates.

Who will now say why Rokossovsky decided in his own way that they were all worthy of being awarded ... only with the Orders of the Patriotic War of the XNUMXst degree. In those days, perhaps it was a very worthy reward for the fallen. But many years later, when everyone who fought or even just stayed in battle formations were awarded the same orders, the significance of this award, alas, was seriously depreciated.

By the way, it is worth mentioning that none of the officers and fighters of the 70th Army who fought with the enemy at that time was never nominated by Rokossovsky for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. Officially, it is believed that the 78th heroes were still awarded the Golden Stars, but they were awarded at a time when the 70th Army was not part of the front under the command of Rokossovsky.

Most likely, it happened in the spring of 1944 in the 2nd Belorussian Front with Colonel-General PA Kurochkin, who was replaced by General IE Petrov, who was glorified by the writer Karpov “The Commander” during the reorganization of the front.

But the 70th Army, which did not have a chance to become the Guards, went a path no less glorious than that of most other armies in that war. After the Kursk Bulge, she had both Polesskaya and Belorussian, as well as the liberation of Poland, East Prussian, East Pomeranian and Berlin operations.

War Memorial Cemetery in Warsaw, where soldiers of the 70th Army are buried along with others

And the years fly by, our years are like birds ...

Years passed, and we began to forget about those who fought with the enemy. We do not remember the heroes of the Soviet Union, let alone those who were awarded other awards. Everything somehow merges in memory.

For a long time, the border guard officer from Kursk Vladimir Korolev and the relatives of the victims have been trying in vain to remind that the feat of the soldiers of the Romanovsky platoon should be evaluated differently. In vain: all their efforts are in vain.

Hardly anyone would dare to admit that commander Konstantin Konstantinovich Rokossovsky then, in the difficult forties for the country, made a mistake. Many are thinking about this, but for some reason no one will say: "Yes, he was wrong, and all these heroes, starting with Alexander Romanovsky (pictured), should receive the title of Hero of the Soviet Union."

All of them died in that battle near the Kursk Bulge and were buried in one grave. For the whole history During the Great Patriotic War, three cases are known when the Stars of Heroes were received by the soldiers of one of the units as a whole.

The border guards of the Romanovsky platoon could well have become the fourth. But that did not happen. Why? And let someone say that everything is over, and there is no need to return to this. No, it's worth it. This requires only will and courage, you need to knock on doors and receptions of various instances.

In the meantime, sadly, no one wants to deal with the awards of the dead border guards of the international platoon: Russians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Tartars, Chechens and Zaporozhye Cossacks. And they don't remember them anymore ...

Those killed on July 16, 1943 in a battle near the village of Samodurovka (now the village of Igishevo, Ponyrovsky district, Kursk region):

1. Lieutenant Romanovsky Alexander Demyanovich, Kazakh SSR
2. Art. Sergeant Gaidamatchenko Grigory Dorofeevich, Ukrainian SSR
3. Sergeant Voevodin Ivan Antonovich, Oryol region
4. Sergeant Pikalov Vasily Danilovich, Ukrainian SSR
5. Jr. Sergeant Ivanov Stepan Alexandrovich, Orenburg region
6. Junior Sergeant Arslangereev Ilyas Akbulatovich, Dagestan ASSR
7. Corporal Emelyanov Vasily Alekseevich, Orenburg region
8. Private Rafikov Rakhman Ofetakovich, Orenburg region
9. Private Amelchukov Grigory Alekseevich, Altai Territory
10. Private Patrikhin Petr Pavlovich, Ukrainian SSR
11. Private Enin Anatoly Fedotovich, Oryol region
12. Private soldier Zolotukhin Semyon Yegorovich, Kursk region
13. Private Voskoboev Mikhail Ulyanovich, Oryol region
14. Private Novoselov Nikolay Afanasevich, Chelyabinsk Region
15. Private Kokashkin Ivan Nikolaevich, Orenburg region
16. Private Senderov Timofey Afanasyevich, Novosibirsk region
17. Private Durnakov Mikhail Nikolaevich, Oryol region
18. Private Zhurgenov Ordalbai, Kazakh SSR
All of them were posthumously awarded the Order of the Patriotic War of the 1st degree.

Comments

[Far B]

The army general must have thought for a long time, as if remembering what he had to endure in the dungeons of the NKVD in Leningrad and Moscow.

Rokossovsky's revenge? Is that straight no more, no less? In general, some kind of sur. Rokossovsky and Khrushchev refused to pour mud on Stalin, and in his memoirs he bluntly said that he simply did not want to remember the period of his imprisonment. And then he suddenly took - and so despicably, petty revenge on the fallen soldiers (why exactly them? And what, would he feel much better from this?). In general, a far-fetched version. Rokossovsky was generally a man of great spirit and great soul, so to ascribe to him a - just don't respect his memory, IMHO.
And now we can only guess about the reasons. During the war, many were worthy of the title of Hero, and many were refused. For different reasons.

[Alexander Suvorov]

I agree completely! I was especially moved by this passage from the author:

No, Konstantin Konstantinovich has not forgotten anything - neither broken ribs, nor knocked out teeth. And he remembered all his torturers by sight. Being at the front and accidentally catching the eyes of the commander, they were terribly afraid that they would remember the atrocities they had committed.

But Rokossovsky was not like that. Every time he met former flayers in combat conditions, he suppressed his boiling anger.

Forgive the author, what is all your nonsense based on? Maybe Konstantin Konstantinovich himself told you about this?

Your conclusions are just the fruit of your own imagination and something tells me that this has nothing to do with reality! Personally, I strongly doubt that Rokossovsky would meet any of the investigators in his case in combat conditions. And then even if he did, what could he show them? They are just performers and did their job, and they did it as any others in their place would do. The time was like that, and what does the time have to do with it, this is a specificity, torture is still used in the United States and is not shy about it. Here, claims should be made not to the performers, but to Stalin, Rokossovsky had no claims at all from the word at all. He is one of the few who refused to throw mud at Stalin.

[Proxima]

I once read about an episode that Rokossovsky called one sergeant and asked him a question: "Don't you remember me?" After that, the former serviceman from the places of detention was greatly effaced. Then Konstantin Konstantinovich examined the sergeant's "iconostasis" and said that you do not only know how to supervise and fight. That, in fact, is the whole "revenge".

[The leader of the Redskins]

I completely agree with you. Many generals and commanders visited the dungeons of the NKVD, and if at least every second would settle scores with representatives of this kind of troops, then ...
Most likely, he was still playing a complex of indecision, what is considered a feat and what is not. This is stated in the documentary mini-series "Hero of the Soviet Union". It provides statistics and indicates that in 1941-1942 the title was awarded very rarely. Starfall began after the Battle of Kursk.
That, probably, Rokossovsky and hesitated, especially since the exploits on the arc were everywhere.
Thanks to the author.
To the border guards eternal human memory and bow to the earth.

[Eug]

Many believe that the first mass awarding took place during the crossing of the Dnieper.

[210ox]

It should be like this. The author-you are unfair to those people Rokossovsky is an intelligent and fair person. Revenge on who, border guards? Well, they were in the NKVD, but they were not guardian investigators.

[vladcub]

"These are not investigators - guardians" Suvorov, you have a mistake: the investigator and the "guard" are two different things: "guard" the sentry on the tower and he could not be an investigator
And so everything is true.

[210ox]

Yes, I know who is hu. This refers to the workers of the investigation and execution of punishment.

[Okolotochny]

You don't know a fig. Look who defended Rostov-on-Don? The convoy regiment of the NKVD, stood to death. "Guards" ... did you sit by chance? Where does the prisoner's jargon come from?

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

In the past I served. So, the word guard has not been used for a long time. Probably fifty years, if not more.

[Catfish]

Dear Mikhail, you are absolutely right in everything. Konstantin Konstantinovich was not the right person to stoop to this and take revenge on people completely unfamiliar to him, to take revenge only for the fact that they were in parts of the NKVD.
I happened to work with one retired colonel-general staff officer, he went through the whole war, working in the headquarters of different armies, with different commanders. So, he put Rokossovsky above everyone else, in any situation, no matter how tense and difficult it was, Rokossovsky did not even raise his voice, and even more so he did not break into a shout, during the entire time of his work at his headquarters, my friend never heard not a single swear word from him, which, by the way, was not neglected by many of our generals. Well, such a person could not suffer petty vengeance and do what the author is trying to reproach him with.
Many historians, and not only ours, generally consider K.K. Rokossovsky the best commander of the Second World War and I completely agree with them.

[AK1972]

You are absolutely right, Constantine. During the war, my grandfather served in the NKVD, SMERSH SZMOR. He spoke of Rokossovsky as a very competent, self-possessed person. But he was silent about Zhukov. I recently learned from my mother that my grandfather took part in the events about which the film "Liquidation" was made and did not really approve of Zhukov's actions.

[Catfish]

Alexey Rokossovsky at one time (there was a case) called Zhukov a boor and refused to continue the conversation with him.
By the way, my maternal uncle was also an officer of SMERSH, although he was mainly engaged in the "forest brothers" in Lithuania, and the Fritzes-encircled. But he said almost nothing, alas.

[AK1972]

My grandfather didn't tell me anything either. When he died I was 7 years old. I know about his service from the words of my mother and grandmother, who, incidentally, fought with him, was a telegraph operator - a foreman of the 2nd class, they got married during the war. Mother was born in post-war Odessa. When our family moved to another city, I found my grandfather's workbook in a box with transcripts of interrogations of Romanian prisoners. The grandfather wore a naval uniform with the epaulettes of a lieutenant captain. But my grandmother said that she never knew in what form he would come home - either an infantry captain, or an artilleryman, or even dressed as Odessa Zhorik.

[vladcub]

Dalny, I did not always agree with you, we have some ideological differences, but here I agree. Unfortunately I can put only one +, and the rest are +++++.
"Being at the front and accidentally catching the commander's eyes" why did the NKVD investigators find themselves on the front line?
The author wanted to kick Rokossovsky or the Stavka: "by the beginning of 1943, they formed far in the rear, from Tashkent to Khabarovsk, and immediately EQUALIZED in RIGHTS with the GUARDIAN." Rokossovsky. He's not good. " Or Stavka:, caved in front of Byaka Beria

[rollton]

I am sure that Marshal Rokossovsky, unlike the author of the article, perfectly understood the difference between border guards and units of the internal service and convoy troops.
Here, rather, the problem is in the presentation, mediocre and boastfully written and therefore requiring verification, after which it was signed.

[skipper83]

In his memoirs, Konstantin Konstantinovich recalled that the 70th Army made its debut "not very well", and this is how I understood it in a soft wording. Most likely this is the reason

[svp67]

Eternal memory and glory to the heroes who gave their lives for us.
And you shouldn't be so strict about Rokossovsky, it's easy for us now to judge and reason, but then there were different standards.

[Sakmagon]

Bullshit. Everything from extreme to extreme - either "bloody gebnya" or "innocently slandered". Read personally about Rokossovsky and about how they were presented for awards in general, and how they claimed. The writers got it ...

[Olgovich]

The author has no right to say what Rokossovsky "thought" if the marshal himself did not speak about it.

And heroism then, in the Battle of Kursk, was shown by hundreds of thousands and what - to give a Hero to everyone?

The platoon complied with the order, as did the thousands of other platoons that remained completely unnamed and unwarranted.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Absolutely.

[Serg koma]

Quote: Olgovich

And heroism then, in the Battle of Kursk, was shown by hundreds of thousands and what - to give a Hero to everyone?

The author contradicts himself in the article -

In those days, maybe it was a very worthy reward for the fallen... But many years later, when everyone who fought or even just stayed in battle formations were awarded the same orders, the value of this award, alas, has been seriously depreciated.

those. if the Heroes were "hung" according to the first performance regiment commander(see reward), it would be just right to introduce awards like "Hero of such a regiment"; "The hero of such a division," then the Hero's star would have a "value" as "Patriotic War II." after 85.
In terms of the scale of the regiment (in particular the regiment commander), the feat is worthy of the title of Hero - but on the scale of the front, when thousands of soldiers fulfilled their soldier duty to the end at the cost of their own lives?
Honor and praise go to the border guards of the 224 joint venture for the feat they accomplished.
From the statute of the order-

The Order of the Patriotic War is awarded to soldiers and commanders of the Red Army, the Navy, the NKVD troops and partisan detachments who have shown courage, fortitude and courage in the battles for the Soviet Motherland, as well as servicemen who, by their actions, contributed to the success of the combat operations of our troops.

Order of the Patriotic War I degree

Who, fighting against the superior forces of the enemy, did not surrender an inch of their positions and inflicted great damage on the enemy;

Rokossovsky awarded in accordance with the statute, period.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

And in the battle for Moscow, too, thousands died, but did not leave their positions. So - and then all of them had to be found and awarded by assigning a Hero of the Soviet Union?
I have no doubt, colleagues, that if we were in their place, we would all have done the same. Therefore, our people won, not Germany. Eternal glory and eternal memory to all who defended our Motherland then!

[sibiryouk]

There may be a mistake by the command, the commander of the regiment or division - people were simply left to perish! (each feat is at the same time someone's mistake or even a crime) Heroes often save someone's stupidity or meanness with their heroism. Rokossovsky could therefore not approve the idea that he realized that people were ruined in vain! They are heroes, of course, but what could they do - just follow the order and die!

[parusnik]

No, Konstantin Konstantinovich has not forgotten anything - neither broken ribs, nor knocked out teeth. And he remembered all his torturers by sight. Being at the front and accidentally catching the eyes of the commander, they were terribly afraid that they would remember the atrocities they had committed.

... Along the way, in the 70th Army, torturers of Rokossovsky served .. The author probably knows that Khabarovsk, Chita, Novosibirsk, Chelyabinsk and Tashkent became the "small homeland" of the divisions of the 70th Army. The 70th Army consisted of border guards, soldiers of the internal troops (convoy units), military personnel of the troops for the protection of railways. them was a torturer? I will note that Rokossovsky was arrested in Leningrad and spent two years and a half in "Kresty", from where he was released. Why did he have to take revenge on the soldiers from the Far East and from Central Asia? ... The reserve colonel took the kvach and daubed it.

[ccsr]

Quote: parusnik

The reserve colonel took the quach and daubed it.

The reserve colonel should have known that there were no BORDER GUARDS in the 70th Army, because there are active border guards who could be part of the NKVD units for protecting the rear for some time in the zone of the active army, and those who served in this army were called up from the mob reserve as ordinary soldiers of infantry units of the ground forces according to the mob plans of the General Staff. So it wouldn’t hurt to immediately dot the "I" for a start, so as not to mislead people about the "border guards" who fought in the 70th Army.

Quote: parusnik

The 70th Army consisted of border guards, soldiers of the internal troops (convoy units), servicemen of the troops for the protection of railways. And which of them was the torturer?

Moreover, those civilians who were convicted of minor crimes for up to 70 years, and had the right to choose a penal company instead of serving sentences in camps or prison, also fell into the 5th Army. After the trial, they could be sent from prison to, for example, 183 oshr of the 70 Army.
As for Rokossovsky's actions, these are just insinuations, because the author apparently has no idea what kind of social circle the military commander has of such magnitude, and therefore his conclusions regarding this famous marshal cannot be trusted - he simply did not have time to delve into the essence of the exploits of ordinary soldiers and he signed submissions most likely automatically after they passed all the lower levels. Another thing is if, at the stage of document verification, doubts arose about the authenticity of what was described, then he really could have rejected the application by his decision, realizing that he would be hacked to death in Moscow and returned back, and even with an unpleasant accompaniment. So, Rokossovsky didn't have anything personal, it's just that ordinary ameian reality is much simpler than someone would like to imagine.

[Captain45]

Ml. Sergeant Ivanov Stepan Alexandrovich, Orenburg region
Lance corporal Emelyanov Vasily Alekseevich, Orenburg region
Private Rafikov Rakhman Ofetakovich, Orenburg region
Private soldier Kokashkin Ivan Nikolaevich, Orenburg region
Heroes are earthlings. Eternal memory and glory!

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Senile graphomania is a funny thing. Broken ribs, broken teeth, vengeful Rokossovsky, geriatric pathos ... Grandfather sucked the plot for his empty from an arthritic finger.

[Lewww]

This is how the story is falsified, hmm ...

However, the commander of the Central Front, Army General Konstantin Rokossovsky then postponed the signing of the award lists. Only a few months later, he again returned to the consideration of the feat of the soldiers of the Romanovsky platoon.

And why suddenly the author decided that Rokossovsky postponed the signing of the award lists for several months ?????

The award for Romanovsky was signed by Army Commander Sharapov on November 12, 1943.
The award order was issued on December 21 - a perfectly normal time for the document to pass.

But on that very day, most likely, without understanding in detail the feat of the border guards of the Romanovsky platoon, the general crossed out everything previously proposed subordinates.

Question to the author: on what basis was it concluded that "the general crossed out everything previously proposed"?
What documents confirm this?

signed by the commander of the 224th Pamir Rifle Regiment, Colonel Surzhenkov

Surname of the commander of the 224th joint venture Surzhenko, not Surzhenkov - does not bow

[Andrey VOV]

And then Rokossovsky did not understand who tortured him and who the border guards were. The version is far-fetched,

[Lynx2000]

The best reward for a hero is the memory of the people and relatives.

The question is that in the war and post-war period the family of the deceased with a posthumous
the title of hero of the Soviet Union was supposed to be paid. Certificates, food cards, parcels, sometimes, helped
the family of the front-line soldier to survive in the rear ...

Regarding the 70th Army of the NKVD troops:
"From the encyclopedia" The Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. " (M., 1985) 2: “The 1942th Army, formed in October 1943 - February 15 from the personnel of the border and internal troops of the NKVD and directly subordinate to the Supreme Command Headquarters. Since February 1943, 1, it is included in the Central Front, having in its composition (as of March 102) 106nd, 140th, 162th, 175nd. 181th and XNUMXst rifle divisions, a number of tank, artillery and other units. Participated in the Battle of Kursk ... ""

"In his memoirs" Soldier's Duty ", Marshal of the Soviet Union and Marshal of the Polish People's Republic K.K. Rokossovsky wrote: In the zone of defense of this army from 70 to 5 July 12 (for 1943 days), the enemy lost up to 8 thousand.
soldiers and officers, 572 enemy tanks were hit and burned, 60 of them were "tigers", 70 aircraft were shot down. These facts speak eloquently about the courage and courage of the border guards, soldiers of the internal troops ""

"Together with the 140th rifle division, the gunners of the 3rd anti-tank artillery brigade under the command of Colonel V.N.Rukosuev fought.
The main attack of the tanks was taken over by the artillery battery of Captain G.I. Igishev, only on July 9, 1943, she destroyed 19 enemy tanks. The brigade headquarters received a message from senior sergeant Sklyarov: “Captain Igishev and senior lieutenant Kartuzov died a heroic death. Destroyed 17 enemy tanks. There is only one gun left in the battery, its wheel is broken. I set up the box and continue to fight. " For this feat, Captain Georgy Ivanovich Igishev was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union (posthumously) on August 7, 1943 "

“The artillerymen of other units acted heroically. Thus, an artillery battery of 76-mm guns under the command of Senior Lieutenant A.P. Voloshin from the 181st Order of Lenin of the Stalingrad Division (the former 10th Infantry Division of the NKVD troops) knocked out 2 tanks during the enemy counterattack. combat operations by rolling two guns each, the gunners ran into an enemy tank ambush. 2 guns were knocked out immediately, then the third gun was also disabled.
With the remaining cannon and a rifle company arriving in time, the artillerymen took up a perimeter defense. When a German tank left an ambush, they knocked it out, and then, together with the infantry, repulsed three enemy attacks. For this battle A.P. Voloshin was awarded the Order of the Red Banner.
In subsequent battles, his battery destroyed 15 enemy tanks. On October 16, 1943, Senior Lieutenant Alexei Prokhorovich Voloshin was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union for courage and heroism. "
The dead 18 border guards are not forgotten. Earlier, in the units of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, solemn events were held in memory of veterans.

Thus, the front commander noted the fighting qualities of the NKVD troops and the awards found heroes. This is always the case with performances and real awards.

To the author: Please, do not mix everything together! If the NKVD, then it means "master's back affairs". However, such "masters" (investigators) who interrogated Rokossovsky have nothing to do with the combat units of the NKVD (border and internal troops). What could they do on the Kursk Bulge, even within the front headquarters ???

[Jager]

It is interesting that during the war the NKPS practically "merged" with the NKVD. And what, every railroad worker will now be presented as a bloody executioner?

[mat-vey]

Quote: Jager

It is interesting that during the war the NKPS practically "merged" with the NKVD. And what, every railroad worker will now be presented as a bloody executioner?

And as firefighters ... it's generally scary to imagine them with axes in helmets ...

[Pane Kohanku]

I set the box and continue to fight. " For this feat, Captain Georgy Ivanovich Igishev was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union on August 7, 1943 (posthumously) "

Even as a child, I read about Igishev in the collection of stories about the war "Feat". Remember how we came out like that?

To the author: Please, do not mix everything together!

I will fully subscribe. the argument about the investigators and its connection with the awarding has been sucked out of thin air, with all due respect.

[Doctor Evil]

As if I had returned thirty years ago, I read an article from Ogonyok by editor-in-chief Korotich.

[Undecim]

Just some kind of a sabbath of obscurantism on the site today. Okay, Samsonov Russoariev paints, but using the memory of those who died in the Great Patriotic War to create such writings is already blasphemy, even taking into account the possible dementia of the writer.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Undecim

even taking into account the possible dementia of the writer.

I think not 'possible', but 'obvious'

[astra wild2]

“taking into account possible dementia,” Viktor Nikolaevich, bravo is very well said. Politely but accurately diagnosed.

[Catfish]

... enemy infantry appeared with the support of armored personnel carriers and light tanks.

By 1943, light tanks (T-I, T-II, Pz.35 (t), Pz.38 (t) were used only in reconnaissance units and did not take part in offensive operations.

[astra wild2]

Konstantin, in that case the author DOES NOT HAVE ANY INFORMATION AT ALL ?!
Poor site: CATASTROPHICALLY FEW INTERESTING AUTHORS

[Catfish]

Good evening, Vera ... The point is not even whether the author owns the information or not, the point is that this figure tried to do something that should not have been done - he tried to cast a shadow on the name of the person who did everything, and possibly more, for our victory in this most difficult from wars. But look how amicably everyone who took the trouble to read this article rebuffed him. Moreover, in the "united ranks" there were those who, for other reasons, mercilessly verbally "beat" each other and "fought" until they turned blue. But this is really very nice, no matter how different we are, no matter what ideals we defend, we will not let anyone shit on the sacred in our history. And this is the main thing here.

[3x3zsave]

everyone who took the trouble to read this article.
I've read the title and that's enough for me. I see no point in commenting on frank schizophrenia.

[Catfish]

And I wondered what this talented person could be wrong about, because we all have ever made mistakes. In addition, the Kursk Bulge, and Rokossovsky was the only one of our commanders who accurately guessed the place at which the Germans would strike on this face.

[3x3zsave]

Uncle Kostya, remind me of the rank and position of the senior commander mentioned in the article. Eternal memory to all of them!

[Catfish]

So there is a complete list, see above.

[3x3zsave]

What for? Further in PM.

[ccsr]

Quote: Sea Cat

In addition, the Kursk Bulge, and Rokossovsky was the only one of our commanders who accurately guessed the place at which the Germans would strike on this face.

You should not create a mythology about this outstanding commander in terms of the fact that he is personally

guessed the place at which the Germans would strike on this face.

Everything was much simpler and more commonplace, because radio intelligence detected in a few days the appearance of a large medical hospital in this area, which was stationed near Berlin and specialized in burn injuries, and which had never appeared on the Eastern Front before. After that, all radio networks went into radio silence, and the front intelligence chief ordered an immediate report on any activity in the German radio networks. After analyzing the entire situation, the intelligence chief, a few days before the expected main attack, told Rokossovsky that it was in this sector that the Germans would be advancing. And when, in three hours, a check of the radio networks of the Germans began before the offensive, Rokossovsky was immediately reported about this and, on his command, an artillery strike was launched on the deploying formations in two hours.
This is all described in Soviet military textbooks on radio intelligence, and all the fantasies about foresight or about an alleged map that was seized from a downed pilot, or about a defector, are just front-line legends, which often suffer from the memoirs of even famous people.

[Catfish]

In that case, what prevented Vatutin from doing what Rokossovsky did on his own in his sector of defense?

[ccsr]

Quote: Sea Cat

In that case, what prevented Vatutin from doing what Rokossovsky did on his own in his sector of defense?

Maybe his intelligence chief reported to him about this, but the commander makes the decision himself, and it is possible that he did not have enough data to make a final decision. However, this is just my guess, apparently the answer must be sought in his memoirs and the archives of the GRU General Staff and the Ministry of Defense.

[Catfish]

This is the difference between a talented general and an ordinary mediocrity. In general, thank you, you just confirmed what I wrote about Rokossovsky.

[Korsar4]

You guys did a PR article.
Since the position is closer to Anton, I will refrain from reading for the moment.
Better what to read in the specialty.

[3x3zsave]

That's it! And I mean the same.

[Undecim]

the fact is that this figure tried to do what should not have been done - he tried to cast a shadow on the name of the person who did everything, and possibly more, for our victory in this most difficult of wars.
There is one more thing - this article is stolen, copy-paste.

[Catfish]

It turns out that one is worth the other, the article is shit anyway, stolen or not.

[Undecim]

It's just that the article was published by Podymov, although some "lieutenant colonel" is designated as the author. I became interested. It turns out that the "idea" that Rokossovsky interfered with the awarding belongs to the head of the "Border Guard" club in the town of Shchigry, Kursk region, VF Korolev, I do not know the motives of this comrade.
And the article was copied from here - https://www.diary.ru/~15061981/p217185841.htm?oam, only diluted with rantings. Therefore, I strongly doubted the existence of the lieutenant colonel - the author.
By the way, while looking through the "origins", I found a curious moment, an article where the same event is described somewhat differently and where Rokossovsky's meeting with one of his guards is described, I don't know how reliable, but you can see - https://nvo.ng .ru / history / 2013-08-02 / 12_kurskaya.html.

[Catfish]

Thank you, Victor, I will definitely take a look. Yes, I think everyone will be interested.

[astra wild2]

The boys beat me severely for this. It's a shame we can't do it now.

[Pane Kohanku]

Pz. 35 (t)

Uncle Kostya, EMNIP, the last Pz. 35 (t) in the German army (in front-line units) on the Eastern Front were lost in the winter of 41-42. In the 43rd year, their counterparts could remain with the Romanians - R-2. Pz.38 (t) was practically gone by that time, I think.

[Catfish]

Kolya, hi! I specifically looked at the composition of the Germans on the Kursk Bulge, there were light tanks there, for sure. I myself believed that all this tank shelling by 43 was knocked out under a clean one, but no, it turns out.

[alexey alexeyev_2]

Rokossovsky was not like that. So take and take revenge on the dead. Don't write crap ..

[BAI]

the notorious 70th army, formed from the NKVD troops, in which border guards and servicemen of the internal troops fought

Being at the front and accidentally falling into the eyes of the commander, they were terribly afraid that they would remember the atrocities they had committed.
But Rokossovsky was not like that. Whenever we meet former flayers in combat conditions,

Here it is impossible according to the rules of the site, figs with them, you will have to call things by their proper names, namely - the author k.o.ze. and the moral ur.d, albeit a colonel.
1. What do border guards have to do with the camps?
2. Divisions and armies of the NKVD to the NKVD, in the overwhelming majority of cases, were related only by name and ordinary recruits were called up there.
3. My father fought in the 259th rifle division. "Division of the NKVD". Father is an ordinary conscript, who has nothing to do with the NKVD. And he got into this division after:

On the 1 1942 June years old 755 command personnel, 825 junior command personnel and 3813 privates.

During the operation to withdraw from the encirclement of the 2nd shock army 24 1942 June years the remnants of the division, numbering 156 soldiers and commanders, were able to get out of the environment.

And here he miraculously survived:

on the night of September 29-30, 1942, by order, the remnants of the division left the encirclement, having in their composition only about 150 active bayonets (in total, from 356 to 659 people from the division's composition after the Sinyavino operation, according to various sources

And after that, in October 1942, the division was replenished by whom? Correctly. Contingent from forced labor camps. My father (he commanded a mortar platoon) in the platoon had a ratio of 50 to 50 - regular personnel and convicts.

This is how the author, in passing, cheated tens of thousands of front-line soldiers who honestly fought for their homeland.

By the way, here is another example of a "flayer" for the author.
Lieutenant Colonel of State Security Orlovsky Kirill Prokofievich.
From his letter to Stalin:

In this battle, I was seriously wounded and contused, as a result of which my right arm was amputated along the shoulder, on the left - 4 fingers and the auditory nerve was damaged by 50-60%. In the same place, in the forests of the Baranovichi region, I was physically fit and in August 1943 I was called to Moscow with a radiogram.

The party of Lenin-Stalin brought me up to work hard for the benefit of my beloved Motherland; my physical disabilities (loss of hands and deafness) do not allow me to work at my previous job, but the question arises: did I give everything for the Motherland and the party of Lenin-Stalin?

If the Government of the USSR had released a loan in the amount of 2.175 thousand rubles in commodity terms and 125 thousand rubles in monetary terms, then I would have achieved the following indicators:

data

I must say that the gross income of the Krasny Partizan collective farm in the Kirov district of the Mogilev region in 1940 was only 167 thousand rubles.

According to my calculations, this same collective farm in 1950 can achieve a gross income of at least three million rubles.

Stalin granted the lieutenant colonel's request.
He handed over to the state the apartment he had received in Moscow and left for the ruined Belarusian village. Kirill Prokofievich fulfilled his obligations - his collective farm "Rassvet" was the first collective farm in the USSR that received a millionth profit after the war. After 10 years, the name of the Chairman became known throughout Belarus, and then the USSR.
In 1958, Mr. Kirill Prokofievich Orlovsky was awarded the title Hero of Socialist Labor with the award of the Order of Lenin. For military and labor achievements, 5 was awarded the Order of Lenin, the Order of the Red Banner, and many medals. He was elected deputy of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of the third and seventh convocations.
And that's all - Kirill Prokofievich Orlovsky is a Chekist, a professional saboteur-"liquidator", that is, exactly the "NKVD-shny executioner" in the truest sense of the word, and as those who still like to trump pseudo-obscene vocabulary would say - "camp guard" (completely not understanding meaning of the word and to whom it referred). Yes, that's right - a year (1936) before volunteering for Spain, Kirill Prokofievich Orlovsky was the head of a section of the GULAG system at the construction of the Moscow-Volga canal.

[Alexander Suvorov]

I do not like this system of pros and cons, but your comment would be added to endlessness!
Zadolbali already these pseudo-historians with pseudo-colonels. If you are a real colonel, you should know what an order is and how soldiers die on this order. And they die not for orders and not for glory, but for something completely different, but this idiot author cannot understand this. The article is rotten, like the author himself! A sort of wheelchair, but like in colonel's shoulder straps, which I personally doubt very much.

[sergevl]

The real Colonel Budanov is the hero of Russia! He knew what an order was and who to put in the pit.
He fought with rot, with carrion, but pseudo-investigators pseudo-put him in a pseudo-prison.
And he taught his stoker what a REAL order of a REAL colonel is. And he knew that he had to die for his commander, but not let him be offended.
The stoker turned out to be an informer, like all his soldiers, stinking rot.
A real soldier was supposed to shoot the prosecutor's rot, and then shoot himself for the glory of REAL COLONELS !!!!!!!

[Oleg Kievlyanin]

Something doesn't add up, I don't believe in the author's version

[Alexander Greene]

I read only before K.K. Rokossovsky boiled in his chest at the sight of the NKVD-shnikov. I couldn't read this dregs further - it's disgusting ... You cannot invent any nonsense for historical figures, this is not fiction.

[2я19]

So I see a cheap rat under the name of Valentin Malyutin ...

[astra wild2]

Colleagues, I read the material and at the first moment was indignant at the act of Rokossovsky, but then I thought, unfortunately, some colleagues completely forget to need a head: indeed Rokossovsky got into the millstones of the NKVD and miraculously escaped, but it was not the border guards who knocked his teeth out of his teeth and he has no reason to take revenge on the border guards and even more so for those who perished.
The author contradicts himself: "he turned everything over (in the presence of the author, the case was)) and further:" Konstantin Rokossovsky postponed the signing of the award sheets "cross out and postpone the big difference.
Why did Rokossovsky postpone? There are a lot of reasons for this: he could be called to the phone, there were a lot of more important things, because 1943 is not 1945 and any trick could be expected from the enemy. In the end he is terribly tired
R.
S
I read somewhere that after the battles at Stalingrad, Rokossovsky was awarded a government award. Congratulatory telegrams were sent to him. One of them was from the head of the camp where he used to be. Rokossovsky replied to him "I am glad to try the citizen chief." Perhaps it was not so, I cannot say.

[faterdom]

It is a mistake to evaluate awards of any era and any commander / naval commander / sovereign.
For this matter is not amenable to either accounting or standardization and is highly dependent on the attendant circumstances, including the weather, mood and the general situation at the front.
It, maybe the Germans in some places behaved quite fearlessly and competently, inflicting great damage on us and dying in 45, but only who had to reward them, especially after April 30?
So there is a dual impression from the article: on the one hand, it is not a superfluous reminder of the feat of the ancestors, including the fact that the NKVD and not only in the rear, but with their troops at the front made a significant contribution to the Victory, they fought well, without question. By the way, they played a significant role near Leningrad, which is why the Germans did not manage to solve the problem of taking it.
On the other hand, to give some non-obvious assessments of Rokossovsky, who is just known for his human attitude towards subordinates - this ... I will not even assess such an act - he is beyond morality and logic.

[astra wild2]

"was arrested in Leningrad and spent two and a half years in" Kresty "I read and remembered my recent conversation with a colleague Lexus, he argued that traitors were periodically identified and everything was fine.
My personal opinion: in the state security of the civil war, there were scum enemies of the revolution (the shooting of Dumenko is an example of this), but during the life of F. E Dzerzhinsky they quietly shit. But in the 30s they "distinguished themselves" by one villain, two innocent. Okay, Tukhachevsky, Blucher, Dybenko or Peters, the "stocks" had enough, but why are they to blame: Tukhachevsky's wife and daughter, Blucher's first wife, Sorge's wife and son? Rokossovsky, Gorbatov? BUT REAL ENEMIES DID NOT SEE. General Pavlovsky and his headquarters, and the death of Stalin? Then one of your colleagues asked if it was possible to provoke a stroke.? As someone involved in medicine, I say: this is possible. It is known that Vasily, when Stalin died, immediately said: "Father was killed," and he could see better from the inside. I am somewhat skeptical of Stalin, but I admit his mind (the receivers have a worse mind). Even if Stalin was not killed, but death was provoked. This is a betrayal and all subsequent steps are a logical continuation of the long-standing betrayal. FIG knows, maybe the traitors from the Central Committee and the NKVD deliberately committed lawlessness?

[Kwas]

Here's another moment. Investigators and other "particularly distinguished" in 1937-1938, Beria, becoming the head of the NKVD, whom he removed, whom he imprisoned, whom he shot. Not all, of course, but many. And spreading sins to a new generation of NKVDs is unfair.

[Ascold1901]

The author "gives out" !!! It turns out that Rokossovsky did not know and did not understand that the PVs have nothing to do with the "torture chambers of the NKVD" ??? Well, yes, Konstantin Konstantinovich was stupid (according to the author)!
An interesting passage - "... Being at the front and accidentally getting into the eyes of the commander, they were terribly afraid that they would remember the atrocities they had committed." (how did our wonderful author find out). Rokossovsky, it turns out he was also color blind! For the author, I will explain that the Border Guards had and still have GREEN caps!
“On July 2, 1941, all border units, which were under the operational control of the combined-arms command on the Soviet-German front, switched to performing new service and combat missions. Having joined the ranks of the Red Army, together with it, the border guards bore the whole brunt of the struggle against the German invaders, fought against the agents of his intelligence, reliably protected the rear of the fronts and armies from saboteur attacks, destroyed the breakthrough groups and the remnants of the encircled enemy groupings, showing heroism and chekist ingenuity everywhere , fortitude, courage and selfless devotion to the Motherland.

The border troops (about 70%) constituted the bulk of the rear guard troops. To increase the effectiveness of the leadership of the troops for the protection of the rear, by order of the NKVD of the USSR of April 22, 1942, a special department was created. From the GUPV to it were transferred: troop directorates for the protection of the rear of 10 fronts and 2 armies, 37 border regiments, 66 border detachments, 3 separate rifle battalions, 5 separate border commandant's offices. In May 1943, this directorate was transformed into the Main Directorate of the NKVD Troops for the Protection of the Rear of the Red Army. The Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) demanded that the troops strengthen the protection of the rear, in particular against subversive actions of the enemy, increase their vigilance, decisively destroy enemy spies, saboteurs and parachutists, wage a merciless struggle against alarmists, cowards, deserters, and provocateurs.

The service and combat activities of the rear guard troops were highly appreciated. 21 border regiments were awarded orders of the USSR, including: Order of Lenin - 1, Red Banner - 12 (and the 112th separate Carpathian maneuvering group), Suvorov - 2, Kutuzov - 4, Alexander Nevsky - 5, Bogdan Khmelnitsky - 5, Red Star - 7 regiments. For the difference in the battles with the Nazi invaders in breaking through the Germans' defenses, capturing cities, crossing the rivers, 25 border regiments were given honorary names. 20 frontier regiments were commended by the Supreme Commander for successful military operations (including 7 of them twice). 17 border guards of troops for the protection of the rear of the active army were awarded orders and medals, incl. 350 officers. 4 border guards from among these troops were awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. "

[Alexfly]

And how many fighters in other places, perishing, performed their assigned task without even having the right to burial, remaining rotting in forests and swamps ... And only the NKVD fighters should be heroes? Straight superheroes, 18 versus 84? Something is hard to believe ... Although Heroes are sometimes given to just anyone ...

[tolancop]

Another garbage at VO. Paphos - above the roof. And at the same time, and notions about what Rokossovsky was thinking .... Well, and without the executioners of the NKVD, of course, you can't do without, well, how can we do without them?
The front commander did not approve the award lists for the GSS and, apparently, had reasons (yeah, 18 people, an incomplete platoon, were sent to take the STRATEGIC height ...). And now, 75 years after the Victory, someone saw and came to the conclusion about "Rokossovsky's mistake." I think it's time to tie up with modern awards for exploits in THAT war. I think that for all the REALLY worthy, like Marinesco, justice has already been restored. As for the rest ... The dead don't care. And their relatives too, because they have already died. IT IS NECESSARY TO REMEMBER !!! And to educate young people on examples of heroism, and not necessarily only in the Second World War - too. What do we have now? And we have on posters for the 75th anniversary of the Great Victory fragments of photographs glorifying the enemy and images of enemy equipment. Even the emblem of the 75th anniversary managed to be spoiled with arrows in the direction to the east. A diagram of the German STG-44 was stuck on the monument to Kalashnikov. Examples are endless. Well, who was responsible for that? Something I have not heard about the landings for these ideological sabotage. This is our patriotic upbringing ... There is a lot of cod, but things are much worse.

[tolancop]

Quote: Serg Koma

... ..... Rokossovsky awarded in accordance with the statute, period.

One more point. Not a specialist, but, as far as I know, although the awards were made on behalf of the Supreme Council, the documents were approved on the scale of the army / front. And the signing by the front commander of the Patriotic War award guaranteed that the award would take place. But "Lenin" and the GSS were already approved in Moscow and it is not a fact that this approval will take place. And it seems to me that for too generous presentation to the higher orders, one could get a fair stick.
And the GSS was not always received by those who should have received it in all cases. One of the famous examples is the attack pilot Gulyaev ("The Diamond Hand", "Spring on the Street across the River") - more than 60 sorties. For attack aircraft, the GSS relied on a much smaller number of sorties, but ... did not receive it. There may be a lot of reasons, but ... did not receive.

[Peaceful man]

I had no idea that so many trolls had dug in here. What epithets, what comparisons were found. The author expressed his point of view, to which he has the right, like everyone present here. And those present have surpassed themselves! How can you write: not everyone was worthy, well, they died and died, not everyone deserved it, how many were there at the Kursk Bulge, etc. ?! And the transition to personalities is not at all worthy, but it gives an idea of ​​those who wrote.

By coincidence, a film on OTR was shown yesterday:
https://otr-online.ru/kino/obyknovennyy-podvig-4029.html
For those who read only headlines without bothering themselves, I advise you to look from the 27th minute. But it would be better at first, maybe after that it will be a shame to write about those who are worthy and who are not.

[Cure72]

AUTHOR:
Valentin Malyutin,

reserve colonel

Was there a boy?

[Maks1995]

Biased. Highly. (if not tougher)
Was it a mistake? just the same
"" And all these heroes, starting with Alexander Romanovsky (pictured), should receive the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. "
all 18 have to become heroes? at once?
Is it okay that 1) have they already been awarded for this feat?
2) is there a schedule of achievements for getting the Hero? Shoot down 15 enemy aircraft, for example?

And is Rokosovsky's vindictiveness to blame for everything? Didn't give 18 heroes?

[WILL]

A very unpleasant "aftertaste" after reading the article! Konstantin Konstantinovich was certainly not a vengeful person! He knew how to forgive and take care of the Soldier, was Fair, in fact, for this they loved Rokossovsky and proudly called themselves - Rokosovtsy!
It is a pity that it is impossible to put the article Minus.

[Aviator_]

I completely agree. Article place in the "Ogonyok" perestroika time.

[Aviator_]

glorified by the writer Karpov "General".

It would be better if Karpov did not write this bestseller. Ivan Fedorovich is not at all the canonized image that he portrayed.

[Motorhead]

The giraffe is big, he knows better!

[Petro_tut]

Left article, all died, but a description of the battle of 18 people with sapper blades against 200 machine gunners has survived ...

[Molot1979]

Actually, the document states that help has arrived. True, there was already no one to save. However, the picture of the battle was, the killed Germans were counted. And some of the Germans were probably taken prisoner. The picture of battle through the eyes of the enemy is no worse than from the words of our own. But even if there were no prisoners, it is all the same, after all, it is clear that at first rtstroyivais, they burned the equipment. Then we went to work. There are no pvtrones-grenades - it means they went into hand-to-hand combat due to the exhaustion of ammunition.

[Molot1979]

It seems that the author does not know who the NKVD troops were at the front.

[Ivan Hangoverov]

Lies. Disgusting filthy lie. The greatest commander of the Second World War, Konstantin Rokossovsky, did not make any conscious mistakes. It's just that modern would-be researchers figured out how to spit at it from scratch. They try to hurt and slander retroactively.
Dislike can be put in Yandex Zen. I urge everyone to do so.

[Bashibuzuk1]

Everything, as always, is to revise and alter.
Based on that site owner. As I understand it, a citizen of Israel, there is nothing to be surprised at. The revision of the history of the Russian Empire and the USSR continues. Descendants should not know about the exploits of their ancestors, so it is easier to manage them.
It is not for us to judge the decision taken by Rokossovsky - perhaps. such feats were not isolated in the course of major battles.
The opinion and conclusions of the author ..... leave it on his conscience.

[Vladimir Volk]

From the very beginning, Iosif Dzhugashvili is to blame for everything.