Military Review

"Only a decision is needed": MIT announced its readiness to resume work on the Barguzin BZHRK

125
"Only a decision is needed": MIT announced its readiness to resume work on the Barguzin BZHRK

The Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering (MIT) is ready to resume work on the creation of the Barguzin combat railway missile system (BZHRK). This was told by the General Designer of MIT, Academician of the RAS Yuri Solomonov.


In an interview with the TASS agency, Solomonov said that the institute was ready to resume the suspended work on the creation of the Barguzin railroad missile complex, all the developments were preserved. To start work, only the appropriate decision of the authorities and the military is required.

We are ready for this work. It was suspended at a certain time. If a decision is made to resume work, we are ready to continue them.

- he stressed.

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced the start of work on the project of the Barguzin combat railway missile system (BZHRK) in 2012, in 2014 the Yars missile was selected for it, and at the end of 2017 it was reported that the project was closed. According to Russian media reports, the development was postponed "indefinitely."

At the same time, it was known that development work had been fully carried out on the project, and throw tests of missiles for the complex had also been successfully carried out. Later, information appeared that the resumption of work on it is possible with a change in the military-political situation.

The development of the new BZHRK was carried out by the Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering, taking into account the experience of creating its predecessor, the BZHRK with the Molodets missile (RT-23 UTTH, according to NATO classification - SS-24 Scalpel).

During the Soviet era, there were three divisions in the Strategic Missile Forces, each comprising four Good Forces combat missiles. Thus, twelve "nuclear trains" carried 36 missiles, each of which carried 10 warheads. BZHRK utilization took place in 2003-2006.
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  1. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 2 November 2020 12: 03
    +6
    As soon as the majors go to study as train drivers in the specialized technical schools of Russian Railways, it means that the matter with rocket trains has moved off the ground. Baltun is a godsend for a spien! repeat
    1. Ilya-spb
      Ilya-spb 2 November 2020 12: 07
      11
      Hey Barguzin, move the shaft!
      Well done swim not far off! (from)

      Great news! I wish Barguzin to appear in the hardware as soon as possible!
    2. Machito
      Machito 2 November 2020 12: 09
      11
      BZHRK will seriously complicate the delivery of a disarming first strike for the United States. Finding the Barguzins will not be so easy. And a very good response can come from them, promising unacceptable losses for sworn partners.
      1. Terrible_L.
        Terrible_L. 2 November 2020 12: 12
        0
        Just not to the detriment of other types of weapons
      2. bessmertniy
        bessmertniy 2 November 2020 12: 16
        -16 qualifying.
        If you want to track - not a problem. This is probably the vulnerability of the system and the fact that it was left behind. hi
        1. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 2 November 2020 12: 30
          20
          Quote: bessmertniy
          tracking is not a problem.

          laughing Some tovarischi have already tried. As a result of the attempts, they rushed to urgently include the BZHRK "Molodets" in the list under a reduction agreement. yes And, in fact, "Molodets" really differed somewhat from the usual railway trains. "Barguzin" is no longer different.
          1. Sauron80
            Sauron80 2 November 2020 14: 08
            +1
            Even by the number of wheelsets?
            1. Grits
              Grits 2 November 2020 15: 14
              +5
              Quote: Sauron80
              Even by the number of wheelsets?

              Yes. It has become lighter.
              By the way, somewhere infa flashed that it was not "Yars" that could be loaded into it, but "Rubezh". Which "on the shelves" is gathering dust. Dot is even easier.
              1. bayard
                bayard 3 November 2020 03: 15
                0
                I have not heard such information, tests were carried out for Yars. "Rubezh" gathered under the guise of trucks on the roads to drive.
                ... But on the roads there is a risk of accidents and traffic jams ...
        2. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 2 November 2020 12: 32
          18
          Quote: bessmertniy
          If you want to track - not a problem. This is probably the vulnerability of the system and the fact that it was left behind. hi

          Do you seriously think tracking him is not a problem? request This is with the length of the railway in Russia 124 thousand km? With the largest number of railway tunnels in the world?
          BZHRK (with Yars) - will completely change the Strategic alignment of forces, apparently this is why the decision was made to suspend the project (Apparently, observing some agreements about which we simply do not know).
          1. bessmertniy
            bessmertniy 2 November 2020 12: 36
            -12 qualifying.
            For several satellites, it may just be one of the applied tasks - to see where our "Barguzins" are.
            1. KCA
              KCA 2 November 2020 14: 23
              +6
              All satellites are numbered, all their orbits are known, the time of flight is known, the satellites are not able to cover the entire territory of Russia by observation, it is only in the movies that they flutter in orbits like butterflies from flower to flower, the slightest correction of the orbit is carefully calculated and made as rarely as possible, fuel supply is very limited
            2. Grits
              Grits 2 November 2020 15: 15
              +2
              Quote: bessmertniy
              For several satellites, it may just be one of the applied tasks - to see where our "Barguzins" are.

              It will be too expensive to contain such a number of satellites that will constantly "hang" over the entire railway system of the country.
          2. faiver
            faiver 2 November 2020 12: 45
            -17 qualifying.
            when was it? now, with the presence of the Internet and cameras in each phone, this is not a problem, and no satellites are needed, BZHRK cars differ from standard carriages in car bogies
            1. K-612-O
              K-612-O 2 November 2020 13: 03
              12
              Barguzin will no longer be different, Yars is not a Scalpel, it weighs 42 tons, not under a hundred. And the rocket itself is more compact.
              1. faiver
                faiver 2 November 2020 13: 06
                -7
                The question is not in the weight of the rocket, but in its launch ...
                1. K-612-O
                  K-612-O 2 November 2020 13: 11
                  +9
                  At the start, there is practically no load on the bogies, just as at the PGRK the car is put on "paws", and the start is mortar.
                  1. faiver
                    faiver 2 November 2020 13: 14
                    -5
                    There is practically no load on the carts at the start
                    - quite the opposite, it was precisely because of the load that double wheeled bogies stood not only on cars with missiles, but also on all other cars of the BZHRK, to distribute the load ...
                    1. K-612-O
                      K-612-O 2 November 2020 13: 18
                      14
                      Whoa yo belay, you at least watch a movie about the Good fellow. It is because of the rocket's weight of almost 90 tons. Why, then, do we have tanks with double carts driving around, also starting somewhere?
                      1. faiver
                        faiver 2 November 2020 13: 40
                        -1
                        due to the weight of the rocket
                        - then why are double wheeled carts not only on the rocket car, but also on the rest?
                      2. kapitan92
                        kapitan92 2 November 2020 21: 01
                        +2
                        Quote: K-612-O
                        Whoa yo belay, you at least watch a movie about the Good fellow. It is because of the rocket's weight of almost 90 tons. Why, then, do we have tanks with double carts driving around, also starting somewhere?

                        hi good
                    2. Siberianwolf
                      Siberianwolf 2 November 2020 19: 13
                      +1
                      Not true. I saw in due time (since 1989) BZHRK on the march. There were 8 axles only under the "refrigerators" with missiles. The rest are 4 axles.
                      1. faiver
                        faiver 3 November 2020 07: 02
                        0
                        look at the photo above
                      2. Siberianwolf
                        Siberianwolf 3 November 2020 21: 34
                        0
                        I see. As I said. Under refs 8. The train still has a whole bunch of cars. Made for postage or baggage. Four-axis. When starting, there is no load at all on the wheels. The cars are hung on jacks. Like Poplar now. Yes, and all my life, in fact ... In the train that I saw, there were just three such Refs, seven pieces of postage and baggage and ahead, behind two locomotives, a 4-axle tank. Yes, there were problems with the complex, of course it was possible to distinguish. But at that time there were no such means of communication as now, do not forget. For his time, it was very good ... By the way, he unmasked the composition that I saw, a frostbitten warrant officer with dark blue shoulder straps))) He blocked the crossing at the Khurba station with his UAZ and did not let anyone in 15 minutes before travel. Otherwise, I would not have paid any attention to the train ...
              2. Grits
                Grits 2 November 2020 15: 16
                +4
                Quote: faiver
                The question is not in the weight of the rocket, but in its launch ...

                After its start, many will no longer be at all interested in where it started from. It will be more interesting where she finishes.
              3. VORON538
                VORON538 2 November 2020 15: 48
                +1
                And after the launch of the rockets, there will be no one to send photos of the cars, because no one will need them! soldier And the start is carried out not in densely populated areas, but somewhere in the vast expanses of Russia east of the Urals hi
          3. Paranoid50
            Paranoid50 2 November 2020 17: 32
            -1
            Quote: faiver
            with the presence of the Internet and cameras in each phone, this is not a problem,

            laughing laughing laughing
          4. kapitan92
            kapitan92 2 November 2020 21: 09
            +1
            Quote: faiver
            BZHRK cars differ from standard carriages by car bogies

            With the weight and overall characteristics of the "yars", it is possible to "pack" in railway tank wagons 120 tons. (photo above).
        3. SVD68
          SVD68 2 November 2020 12: 57
          +4
          Quote: Hunter 2
          Do you seriously think tracking him is not a problem? This is with the length of the railway in Russia 124 thousand km? With the largest number of railway tunnels in the world?

          And their movement will not be reflected in the movement charts of Russian Railways?
        4. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 2 November 2020 13: 00
          +4
          If thirty years ago the cars could only be tracked by the road they were on. Since 2000, there is one tracking system not only for trains, but also for each car. That is, being in the Far East, I can track any carriage that is located in the European part of Russia.
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 2 November 2020 13: 37
            +6
            Civilians are monitored by civilian services, and the BZHRK is kept under special control and civilians will not know its location.
            1. _Sergei_
              _Sergei_ 2 November 2020 13: 40
              +3
              There is a tight train schedule and the inclusion of any unit in it will be immediately noticeable. Today, military personnel are being tracked. Each train is assigned a number.
              1. KCA
                KCA 2 November 2020 14: 26
                +1
                Do you know the concept of "letter train" and how does it move? OUTSIDE of all schedules, for the sake of it they can stop Sapsan for an hour, if necessary
                1. _Sergei_
                  _Sergei_ 2 November 2020 14: 37
                  +2
                  The peregrine falcon will not be stopped, they will simply be wedged into the schedule
              2. krops777
                krops777 2 November 2020 14: 27
                +1
                Today, military personnel are being tracked.


                I wonder how? It goes under the cargo number, and that they are taking it, you can write anything. I don’t think everyone knows DNTs.
                1. _Sergei_
                  _Sergei_ 2 November 2020 14: 36
                  +2
                  Both the letter and the cargo military go under their numbers. And in the computers of Russian Railways there is also a train route.
                  1. krops777
                    krops777 2 November 2020 14: 40
                    +2
                    Both the letter and the cargo military go under their numbers. And in the computers of Russian Railways there is also a train route.


                    Give an example, if you are a specialist, at least at work I will sort it out, so to speak, eliminate my illiteracy. And under the letter any train of high importance can be hidden.
          2. krops777
            krops777 2 November 2020 14: 30
            +1
            If thirty years ago the cars could only be tracked by the road they were on. Since 2000, there is one tracking system not only for trains, but also for each car. That is, being in the Far East, I can track any carriage that is located in the European part of Russia.



            Yeah, a diagram came out (railway workers will understand) from station A to station B and understand what it is.
            1. _Sergei_
              _Sergei_ 2 November 2020 14: 43
              +3
              Previously, they knew about the arrival of the BRZhK at the station 12 hours in advance. During this time, the instructor driver was preparing, who was in the cabin of the locomotive on our haul
              from station A to station B
              ... And a stall for locomotive maintenance.
              1. krops777
                krops777 2 November 2020 14: 47
                0
                Previously, they knew about the arrival of the BRZhK at the station 12 hours in advance. During this time, the instructor driver was preparing, who was in the cabin of the locomotive on our haul


                In modern realities, this is not necessary, many processes are automated, the locomotive at the station changes in 20 minutes.
                1. _Sergei_
                  _Sergei_ 2 November 2020 15: 01
                  +2
                  They had their own locomotive, but we had it serviced
        5. Sandor Clegane
          Sandor Clegane 2 November 2020 13: 13
          +2
          Quote: Hunter 2
          BZHRK (with Yars) - will completely change the Strategic balance of power

          Will Poseidon change? I'm just interested in your opinion, although the article is about something else
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 2 November 2020 13: 41
            +5
            Quote: Sandor Clegane

            Will Poseidon change? I'm just interested in your opinion, although the article is about something else

            I don’t understand why they slapped you a minus? request
            According to Poseidon, there is not much information in the public domain, I think that will change. Even Academician Sakharov proposed to blow up deep-water nuclear weapons under a hundred megatons in order to completely destroy the US coast.
            1. Sandor Clegane
              Sandor Clegane 2 November 2020 14: 00
              +4
              Quote: Hunter 2
              I don’t understand why they slapped you a minus?

              it doesn't matter))
              Quote: Hunter 2
              According to Poseidon, there is not much information in the public domain, I think that will change.

              so I think so, but the situation is the same for a steam locomotive, and I'm sure that in 5 years it will appear on our open spaces
        6. bayard
          bayard 3 November 2020 03: 22
          +1
          Quote: Hunter 2
          BZHRK (with Yars) - will completely change the Strategic alignment of forces, apparently this is why the decision was made to suspend the project (Apparently, observing some agreements about which we simply do not know).

          Yes, just according to the existing treaties, Russia did not have the right to deploy an additional number of carriers and warheads on them. Soon the strategic arms treaty kirdyk and Russia will have their hands free.
          Perhaps they will return to the "Frontier" theme, and not in the "intercontinental" one, but in the version of the new "Pioneer" - the maximum average range, but with an enhanced warhead or an increase in their number.
      3. Machito
        Machito 2 November 2020 12: 33
        +4
        It is not so easy to track them down, which is why they were drank to please the partners. Satellite reconnaissance will give nothing. For the work of the route workers, a large agent network with operational communication channels will be required, which sooner or later will be lit up. What remains is agents in the Ministry of Defense and Russian Railways, which, again, must promptly transmit target designation. During the threatened period, the Barguzins will not gather dust in the depot, but will enter our vast routes. So it will be more difficult to cover them than Yarsy and Poplar.
      4. KCA
        KCA 2 November 2020 12: 36
        -4
        Yeah, attach the GPS tracker, provided that they will not jam
        1. K-612-O
          K-612-O 2 November 2020 13: 12
          0
          GPS, like GLONASS, will be closed immediately at the beginning of the mess.
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 2 November 2020 13: 39
            +6
            How are the enemies going to solve the problems of targeting the moving train? After all, there was recently an article here about target designation, what have you not read?
    3. Maki maki
      Maki maki 2 November 2020 12: 53
      18
      Quote: Bearded
      BZHRK will seriously complicate for the United States to deliver a disarming first strike

      In my opinion, the work on the RS-26 "Rubezh" has been unfairly slowed down. With an intercontinental range, this complex is cheaper than analogues. And after the end of the INF Treaty, it also replaces the RSD. Let me remind you: China has a lot of RSD, we have 0.
      In general, it is a universal weapon.
    4. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 2 November 2020 13: 01
      +2
      Quote: Bearded
      BZHRK will seriously complicate the delivery of a disarming first strike for the United States. Finding the Barguzins will not be so easy. And a very good response can come from them, promising unacceptable losses for sworn partners.

      I wonder if it is much easier to track it than the Premier League?
      1. Grits
        Grits 2 November 2020 15: 20
        +4
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        I wonder if it is much easier to track it than the Premier League?

        In any case, the enemy "armored train" will not drive up to the torpedo launch range.
    5. Pavel57
      Pavel57 2 November 2020 21: 42
      +1
      The train is now being found through the analysis of the movement of all Russian Railways.
      1. Skarpzd
        Skarpzd 3 November 2020 02: 04
        +2
        change the on-board sensors KBD-2 at least on each stretch and analyze it zadolbaeshsya. you can programmatically exclude polling of a couple of hundreds of sensors from the system and the effect is the same. with a properly functioning AIS Palma system, the cars are lost, and if you take special care of this ...
  2. svp67
    svp67 2 November 2020 12: 39
    +2
    Quote: tralflot1832
    As soon as the majors go to study as train drivers in the specialized technical schools of Russian Railways, it means that the matter with rocket trains has moved off the ground. Baltun is a godsend for a spien!

    The times are not the same ... It seems to me that in the current realities the position of the machinist will be for the GP, which means that the staff can be trained from a young age, we will look after the military registration and enlistment offices and the FSB
  3. Eug
    Eug 3 November 2020 07: 17
    0
    There will be contracted train drivers with non-disclosure subscriptions. But there are a lot of organizational issues, especially for the repair of the chassis of special wagons.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 2 November 2020 12: 07
    +2
    MIT, of course, is ready ... to offer a rocket ... and to master the budget in the project (well, not without this colleague) ... but conceptually ... it is necessary to decide what place in the general concept of using strategic nuclear forces these complexes will take ... and are they really needed now ... it's a matter of development strategy and the use of the Strategic Missile Forces ...
    but from the point of view of liking or not liking ... the idea is good ... but the infrastructure for this type of weapon is quite cumbersome and specific (I mean the entire range of equipment for equipping and basing ... ..
    1. Terrible_L.
      Terrible_L. 2 November 2020 12: 10
      0
      So I also think. To have BZHRK in service would be desirable, no doubt. But is it worth spraying money? There is, after all, where to spend them without rocket trains ...
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 2 November 2020 12: 13
        +1
        On the Petrel for example? hi
        1. Terrible_L.
          Terrible_L. 2 November 2020 12: 18
          -1
          Petrel is certainly tempting, but very exotic winked
          There are more familiar types of weapons, the same Armata, the same Su-57, the same 22350M. Maybe first put them in the troops, and then think about Burevsetniki with BZHRK?
          PS Minus is not mine
          1. KCA
            KCA 2 November 2020 12: 39
            +2
            It seems to me that the financing of the ground forces, the Aerospace Forces, the Navy and the Strategic Missile Forces are completely different budget items of the Ministry of Defense and it is impossible to transfer money from one kind of troops to another.
            1. Terrible_L.
              Terrible_L. 2 November 2020 12: 46
              0
              It seems to me that the financing of the ground forces, the Aerospace Forces, the Navy and the Strategic Missile Forces are completely different budget items of the Ministry of Defense and it is impossible to transfer money from one kind of troops to another.

              Okay, "Sarmat", for example.
              1. bk316
                bk316 2 November 2020 12: 56
                +4
                Okay, "Sarmat", for example.

                As I understand it, the issue is resolved with the Sarmatians and there will be money for anyone.
                The BRZhK should be COMPLETELY in standard wagons and standard bogies, so that it would be impossible to distinguish either from the satellite or from the camera at the railway embankment.
                Then yes, then the place in the triad is understandable. This is practically an SSBN, only much cheaper and no AUG will get it.
          2. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 2 November 2020 12: 52
            +1
            Sorry, I already thought about retirement! I apologize for my stupid thoughts. We think in the right direction !!! And it pleases! hi drinks
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 2 November 2020 13: 22
        +3
        Quote: Scary_L.
        But is it worth spraying money? There is, after all, where to spend them without rocket trains ...

        The stake, I think, should be placed on the weapons, the knowledge of which is a deterrent. This means that the strategic nuclear forces should be a priority in terms of financing. But if you put your hand on your heart, in addition to the BZHRK, I would connect the program of the "grounded" Caliber "in a container version. on ships of sea and river transport. Having a radius of destruction for 2 600 km, it is possible to cover Europe from Bryansk to London. Given that the necessary force in the area of ​​our western borders, if desired, can be created within a day and a half, if its because of the Urals (as an option) And it's no secret that the Britons have always been the main generators of two world wars and the confrontation of the West against Russia in the last 500 years.
        1. Grits
          Grits 2 November 2020 15: 24
          +3
          Quote: Hagen
          I would, in addition to the BZHRK, connect the "grounded" Caliber "program in container design. In a threatened period, they could be assembled both on the railway base and on the truck chassis of mobilized transport, and, if necessary, can be installed on ships of sea and river transport. With a radius of destruction for 2 km, it is possible to cover Europe from Bryansk to London.Although the necessary power group in the area of ​​our western borders, if desired, can be created within a day and a half, if it is put forward from behind the Urals (as option).

          Here I completely agree with you. Such a rocket armored train, loaded with hundreds of "Caliber", plying across the vastness of the country would be a threat to the foe no less than "Barguzin"
          1. not main
            not main 2 November 2020 21: 01
            +2
            Quote: Gritsa
            Here I completely agree with you. Such a rocket armored train, loaded with hundreds of "Caliber", plying across the vastness of the country would be a threat to the foe no less than "Barguzin"

            I agree, but with a reservation! "Calibers" are against Europe and the Britons, but "Barguzin" is already against "sworn friends"! Why did they bent down the "marked" one, that he gave both the "Well done" and the Tu-160 in Priluki and "Osu" and much more!
        2. Eug
          Eug 3 November 2020 07: 20
          0
          A standard container with anything and on a railway platform is perfectly installed ...
    2. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 2 November 2020 12: 26
      +2
      And what are the problems with issuing orders for railway platforms? Wasn't there before and suddenly drew?
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 2 November 2020 13: 46
        -4
        What are you talking about? And simple - there is no money. And given that they find money for all sorts of nonsense, then there is no brain. Here are two main problems: no money and no brains.
        1. bk316
          bk316 2 November 2020 15: 19
          -1
          Here are two main problems: no money and no brains.

          Blah blah blah. What about the essence of the question?
  • iouris
    iouris 2 November 2020 12: 15
    -1
    We missed it too late. The construction of the pipes had to begin with putting on duty at least two divisions of the BZHRK.
  • Gunther
    Gunther 2 November 2020 12: 18
    0
    Quote: Author
    .... resumption of work on it is possible when the military-political situation changes.

    I was always amazed at the warm hope of the Kremlin elite that they are expected in the West, but they are needed like a condom, no more, all the seats are occupied and criminal garbage from the post-Soviet space is not needed there.
    It is necessary to present them as a lobster in Vienna, so that this simple truth reaches them, it is time to understand that only the YARS ICBM for a railway base can protect them from a fair trial in The Hague. yes
    1. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
      tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 2 November 2020 12: 45
      +2
      only the most humane Basmanny Court of Moscow can protect them from a fair trial in The Hague ...
    2. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 2 November 2020 12: 57
      0
      Everything rests on the inheritance from the USSR. USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Tractor in a field of holes, holes, holes! We are for peace, we are for peace! The Ukrainians are your poet wrote! We alone are really for peace, without any conditions. hi
      1. Kushka
        Kushka 2 November 2020 15: 00
        +1
        A bit wrong, this is not Pavlo Tychyna, this is a folk
        a parody of his poetry, humor. More from the same series:
        On Maidani, Kolo Baths, to sleep Tychin in Chamaidani.
        (and at the time of Khrushchev, the word maidan, otherwise
        meaning, except for the direct - the area, place of execution, did not)
  • Strashila
    Strashila 2 November 2020 12: 19
    +1
    The question is not about the missile and the complex, as such, all the sites where these complexes are based have been destroyed. It is practically impossible to make bases, design and build them from scratch in today's conditions.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 2 November 2020 13: 49
      -1
      What is unrealistic to set up sheds, where to drive these trains? What is there to design?
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 2 November 2020 12: 22
    0
    At the same time, it was known that development work had been fully carried out on the project, and throw tests of missiles for the complex had also been successfully carried out.

    Money sawed, 5 years have passed .. you can start anew ..
    Our song is good ..
  • Graz
    Graz 2 November 2020 12: 27
    0
    such trains with hypersonic missiles will be the very thing, at least a dozen trains
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 2 November 2020 12: 34
    +1
    Humpback sold everything, even the BZHRK,
  • svp67
    svp67 2 November 2020 12: 41
    +3
    "Barguzin" is of course a deadly and global thing, but is it not worth developing similar trains with medium-range missiles, given our development of railways, this would allow to dramatically increase their number in threatened directions
    1. bk316
      bk316 2 November 2020 15: 23
      0
      but is it not worth developing similar trains but with medium-range missiles,

      Again. Anything that fits into a standard, indistinguishable from an ordinary carriage can and probably should be built.
      A medium-range system is easier to build, so it's probably YES.
      However, a medium-range missile must climb into a sea container, which opens up unprecedented horizons. laughing
  • Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 2 November 2020 12: 43
    0
    We have railway tunnels near Sevastopol, the Crimean bridge functions ... And to attach to the train, in addition to three ICBMs and three cars with MRBMs - as a subtle hint to the Gay Europeans about fat circumstances !!!
  • Dikson
    Dikson 2 November 2020 12: 45
    -4
    With such a proliferation of cell phones among the population, no spy satellites will be needed to track such trains .. any curious individual near the railroad will be able to upload interesting pictures to the network with automatic linking to the area ..- that's all the disguise will end .. (( Or you have to keep them in the tunnels all the time .. ..
    1. Stepan S
      Stepan S 2 November 2020 13: 15
      -1
      And by what characteristics will curious citizens distinguish the composition on the fly? He will not drive like a dump truck with a raised rocket. The usual train with refrigerated wagons. The number of bogies in the new complex (if any) is the same as in a conventional car.
      1. Wilderness
        Wilderness 2 November 2020 14: 10
        +2
        By marking on wagons and locomotives. On the trail of repair and maintenance. For the layman, all the cars are the same. By cordoning around the train during planned and forced stops. Add the necessary, when transporting explosive, radioactive materials, secret documents, weapons and military units, approvals with local agencies of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, Ministry of Internal Affairs, FSB, Ministry of Health, etc. (there, along the route, everything will have to be adjusted and coordinated). Consider the presence of a heap of private CCTV cameras of all sorts of firms, firms, warehouses at stations and along the piece of iron. And it all works over the Internet. It will be like a traveling circus procession with gypsies and barking dogs ...
        In short, stealth can only be maintained if you build a ring track in the taiga and drive in a circle.
        1. bk316
          bk316 2 November 2020 15: 27
          -1
          And it never occurred to you that you can build 5 hundreds of ABSOLUTELY the same cars and drive them along the railway. Among them there are a hundred real ones. No ICBMs will be enough to suppress them.

          You have to think a little. Well, literally one step forward.
          1. Wilderness
            Wilderness 2 November 2020 15: 35
            +3
            Yes, you can. It is possible and 10 hundred. But where to get finances? And the exploitation of "dummies" will be equal to the exploitation of real trains, otherwise it will be an unmasking factor.
            1. bk316
              bk316 2 November 2020 17: 11
              -1
              But where to get finances?

              Well, you understand that the construction of pacifiers costs practically nothing. What are 500 real super duper cars but without missiles in comparison with one SSBN? Ask how much one refrigerated wagon costs, and this basically costs equipment and not a body.
              As for the operation, yes, you will have to accompany them, just not with a real crew, but with a minimum calculation - it is not visible from the outside. The rest of the operation of the pacifiers is the same as for conventional wagons. The country will pull 500 carriages.
              1. Wilderness
                Wilderness 2 November 2020 19: 20
                +3
                500 wagons + a pair of locomotives for each train (each has a serial number) + fuel for them. The cars will be loaded to the maximum (to simulate the weight), because the empty one is easy to distinguish by sound and pressure. Plus several regiments of personnel (in the officer rank). All this is not cheap. And this I do not take into account the appetites of Russian Railways for running this economy ...
                1. sifgame
                  sifgame 3 November 2020 21: 47
                  0
                  Stop already, right here is the picture in your head, they stand near the paths with mobile phones, they shoot videos, they write sound, with the coordinates everything is sent to the CIA server at once. Through the Internet, after all, the main thing is that the secret train can be tracked by the sound of the wheels, but the Internet seems to be impossible to control, and of course no one sees those who are filming and takes no action. Well, the train again stands still, waiting for the CIA to process data from dudes with mobile phones along the route of the train. Well, you can close the Barguzin program before opening.
      2. BISMARCK94
        BISMARCK94 2 November 2020 17: 06
        +1
        Regular train with refrigerated wagons

        These refs will end their service life in 2021-2022, and new ones are not being built. Gotta dive under something else
      3. Dikson
        Dikson 2 November 2020 21: 01
        0
        It will definitely be different .. firstly, it will be clearly shorter - there will be fewer cars than in a regular freight car .. and there will be two diesel locomotives .. carriages from a distance are similar, and if a person works on the railway or lives nearby, he will see the difference. People are curious. Someone will notice that people in uniform come out of a strange refrigerator .. Yes, a lot of options .. - at a car crossing, the car registrar will remove it, the driver will put a strange train on the Internet ..))) the country is big and you can't keep track of everything .. Why are there so few minuses did they give me?
  • faiver
    faiver 2 November 2020 12: 47
    -1
    This is a useless waste of money, in today's reality, the BZHRK will not be able to quietly move around the country
    1. Roman070280
      Roman070280 2 November 2020 12: 54
      -3
      And there was no talk about usefulness ..
      The main thing is to spend !!
  • Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 2 November 2020 12: 58
    +2
    This was told by the General Designer of MIT, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences Yuri Solomonov.
    Has the Hosh already passed on the nautical theme? Now the academician is targeting trains?
  • Alien From
    Alien From 2 November 2020 13: 17
    0
    It is high time to develop this topic, an extra firebrand for NATO will not hurt us!)
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 2 November 2020 13: 53
    -2
    Iran would have to fit such, so the same Israel will attack them and he has such an unexpected mushroom.
  • fif21
    fif21 2 November 2020 14: 11
    0
    The ideal is a rocket that fits into a Euro container, and then at least on a dry cargo ship, at least on a railway platform. Such a "little thing" will definitely not be found. And it will be possible to unload it in any mattress port. hi
  • Old26
    Old26 2 November 2020 14: 55
    +8
    Quote: Paranoid50
    "Barguzin" is no longer different.

    Nobody knows that. In addition, creating this complex now means spending billions on creating a very controversial complex. The USSR planned to deploy 7 divisions - deployed 3. Russia plans to deploy ONE division. consisting of 5 regiments (trains). Each train has 6 launchers.
    We will have to work from scratch to create the division's PPD, equip dozens, if not hundreds of field positions, and completely create residential infrastructure. At the same time, one should not forget that the deployment areas of the BZHRK were then built in such a way as to form, if possible, a single chain of zones. And that didn't work. Now the adversary will have to monitor one zone, not three. To make this zone the length of the whole of Russia will not work out technically and physiologically. The BZHRK had a rather low autonomy in time.
    In addition, do not forget 2 more things.
    1. The capabilities of reconnaissance satellites have grown exponentially
    2. Railways are now computerized. And to enter their network to obtain the necessary information about the timetable of such BZHRK will not be an insoluble task.

    IMHO it is easier, cheaper and most importantly more efficient to deploy 5 PGRK regiments instead of 4 BZHRK regiments. This is even more missiles and warheads than all trains. But in which case the enemy can damage only one installation, and not immediately the entire regiment (6 launchers). It is all the more easier to deploy another additional regiment in the PGRK divisions, where there is already infrastructure, than to fence a vegetable garden in an "open field"

    Quote: Hunter 2
    Do you seriously think tracking him is not a problem? request With the length of the railway in Russia 124 thousand km? With the largest number of railway tunnels in the world?

    Well, firstly, trim the sturgeon. According to open data, the length of Russian railways is 1 km (according to others - 85600 km)
    Secondly. Do you seriously think that if the division was based in Kostroma (or Perm), then the compositions roamed to Vladivostok? The radius of the patrol zone was about 2 km and most often consisted of a cross located in the “north-south_ and“ west-east ”directions. The eastern Krasnoyarsk division had its own difficulties in patrolling, including with the speed of passage trains on the Transsib. There are not so many tunnels in the European part. This is not Siberia and the Far East.
    AT 3. The range of the route was determined incl. the radio communication range and autonomy of the train itself (the autonomy of EMNIP was 21-28 days, there were never more than 14 patrols)

    Quote: Hunter 2
    BZHRK (with Yars) - will completely change the Strategic alignment of forces, apparently this is why the decision was made to suspend the project (Apparently, observing some agreements about which we simply do not know).

    If 3 divisions, having a total of 36 missiles and 360 warheads, did not change the strategic alignment of forces, then one division with 30 missiles and 120 (maximum 180 warheads will change ?? It’s not funny at all ?? The Strategic Missile Forces - almost 4 hundred carriers and suddenly 30 pieces will change the strategic alignment of forces? Don't tell my sneakers.

    Quote: Graz
    such trains with hypersonic missiles will be the very thing, at least a dozen trains

    I'm embarrassed to ask, are the Yars subsonic? Or is it necessary to stick the term "hypersonic" when and when not necessary? A dozen trains, you say. The USSR with its potential was able to deploy 12, and you want "at least a dozen" ???
    1. bk316
      bk316 2 November 2020 15: 31
      0
      In addition, do not forget 2 more things.

      And you go there too. The concept is OTHER.
      You make 500 wagons, of which 400 are blanks (yes, you can have the same weight and size) and 100 real ones.
      And what is the foe to do?
      1. BISMARCK94
        BISMARCK94 2 November 2020 17: 12
        +1
        And at whose expense will these pacifiers be chased and serviced ??
        1. bk316
          bk316 2 November 2020 17: 16
          0
          Chasing at the expense of Russian Railways, of course. Thank God this is still a state company. Compensated from the MO budget.
          Serve naturally the Strategic Missile Forces, again, at the expense of the MO budget.
          You do not seem to understand the insignificance of 500 wagons in the size of a country.
          Get up at some station near Moscow and count the cars for 2 hours for just 500 and will pass by.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 2 November 2020 16: 34
    +2
    "Only a decision is needed": MIT announced its readiness to resume work on the Barguzin BZHRK
    Just? What a trifle! lol wassat
    But seriously, most modern projects do not have such a solution, and why this happens is also understandable. sad
    1. agond
      agond 2 November 2020 16: 57
      -1
      The rocket can be made on liquid fuel, more precisely kerosene and oxygen, which is refueled immediately before the start, so a smaller rocket will fly farther, and the separate storage of liquid oxygen in a protected tank of a neighboring carriage will increase safety in the event of a train accident, and then oxygen, unlike heptyl, if necessary, is easier to drain and obtain from the air if the train has an expander.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 2 November 2020 17: 36
        +2
        Quote: agond
        The rocket can be made on liquid fuel, more precisely kerosene and oxygen, which can be refueled immediately before the start, so a smaller rocket will fly farther, and a separate storage of liquid oxygen in a protected tank of a neighboring wagon will increase safety in the event of a train accident

        An excellent rationalization proposal - in the style:
        You are my lantern! Hang the lantern on your forehead! So that I can mow at night!

        Indeed, why not complicate the launch procedure by adding liquid oxygen to the rocket? And the preparation time will increase, and the calculation and materiel minus 183 degrees Celsius in liquid form will always benefit. And how the probability of a successful launch will increase after the introduction of additional operations into the preparation cycle! smile
  • Old26
    Old26 2 November 2020 17: 01
    +3
    Quote: Incvizitor
    Iran would have to fit such, so the same Israel will attack them and he has such an unexpected mushroom.

    Or will they think that Israel is far away, and here the infidels are nearby, in the North, across the Caspian Sea ??? How inadequate is it to offer Iran to transfer strategic weapons? They probably forgot that they called America Big Satan and us Little Satan. So no. So they want to give them something. For a surprise? How will you react if a surprise from Iran in the form of a nuclear mushroom grows in your hometown? Basically, if you really want to, take a couple of "Voevod" loans from Kaupite. which are going to be written off and give them to Iran. But you don't want to spend your money. Now, if the state would fulfill your wet fantasies, then it would be another matter

    Quote: bk316
    And it never occurred to you that you can build 5 hundreds of ABSOLUTELY the same cars and drive them along the railway. Among them there are a hundred real ones. No ICBMs will be enough to suppress them.
    You have to think a little. Well, literally one step forward.

    And it never occurred to you that by violating this strategic treaty we were giving our adversary an unkillable trump card. Instead of 450 mines (which they have available), they will take and build a couple of thousand more mines. unpretentious, so that only from a satellite they look like mines. And will we know where they will have these missiles? You have to think, namesake, before proposing anything. And then, after all, a reply oh how can it hit us

    Quote: fif21
    The ideal is a rocket that fits into a Euro container, and then at least on a dry cargo ship, at least on a railway platform. Such a "little thing" will definitely not be found. And it will be possible to unload it in any mattress port. hi

    Ballistic missile in Eurocontainer? Isn't it funny yourself to suggest this? And remote control of radioactive materials - what to do with it? Or ask the Americans to turn them off at the time of the cargo ship's arrival ??

    Quote: bk316
    In addition, do not forget 2 more things.

    And you go there too. The concept is OTHER.
    You make 500 wagons, of which 400 are blanks (yes, you can have the same weight and size) and 100 real ones.
    And what is the foe to do?

    Wrote above. Before you write, you need to learn the hardware, that is, the contract. And then we allow ourselves to virtually violate any agreements, but the adversary ... He can bring a lot of trouble to our intelligence, in parallel violating other provisions. How do you look at the fact if the Americans in the seas washing our territory will place several hundred underwater containers? And outside the tervod. Such a pleasure will be for us when instead of 15-30 minutes to our main missile bases they will fly 3-4 minutes ??? How? What will we do then ??
    1. bk316
      bk316 2 November 2020 17: 23
      +2
      while violating the strategic treaty, we are giving our adversary an unkillable trump card


      Forget YOU about these contracts ALL BOBIK IS DIED. The United States has ceased to be negotiable.

      And will we know where they will have these missiles?

      We don't need that. We will retaliate against cities and decision-making centers. AND NOT BY EMPTY POSITIONS. This is the meaning of the BRZD as a weapon of retaliation and not a first strike.
    2. bk316
      bk316 2 November 2020 17: 45
      -1
      What will we do then ??

      That's when BRZD will be needed.
      I am surprised at you, on the one hand, you hold on to the old, as if with all these agreements already did not wipe. On the other hand, you are going to survive in a global nuclear conflict. I don't care how many times they kill me and in how many minutes. But I really want my killers to die guaranteed.
      It is necessary that the enemy was GUARANTEED destroyed, that's all. Then they themselves will be asked to the negotiating table. And now there is no one to talk about.
      Therefore, it is necessary to develop the strategic nuclear forces on the basis that the first blow will be struck at us, no matter what treaties there are, which means that they must be modernized in such a way that a retaliatory strike would be on anyone. It is necessary for this to place weapons on the rails - that means on the rails, under water - means under water in space - means in space.

      And yes, I understand that this increases the likelihood of an accidental war, but I am ABSOLUTELY sure that if this is not done, then there will be war. It will no longer be accidental that they will strike the first blow as soon as they decide that they can do it with impunity (with acceptable damage).
  • U-58
    U-58 2 November 2020 18: 17
    +1
    At a time when financing of whatever is a very difficult task for the state, such a statement by the MIT can be considered a kind of "political" saber-rattling. Like, we are not asleep, always on the lookout.
    Although conceptually, the presence of a BZHRK seems to be more preferable in relation to any "Sarmat" due to its greater potential stability when the enemy delivers a first strike and a high potential for repeated use during the period of nuclear weapons.
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 2 November 2020 19: 42
    +2
    During the Soviet era, there were three divisions in the Strategic Missile Forces, each comprising four Good Forces combat missiles. Thus, twelve "nuclear trains" carried 36 missiles, each of which carried 10 warheads. BZHRK utilization took place in 2003-2006.

    Yes, disposed of at the mercy of partners.
    The Russian Defense Ministry announced in 2012, in 2014 the Yars missile was chosen for it, and at the end of 2017 it was reported that the project was closed.

    Here the will of the commander-in-chief is more needed to resume this project.
  • Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 2 November 2020 20: 58
    0
    Weight, pairs, spies, satellites .... The time of arrival of the signal of a missile attack to the center of the Strategic Missile Forces and the adoption of an appropriate decision should also be taken into account. Today, this stage is several times greater than 80-90 years and makes it possible not only to shoot, but also to get out of the area of ​​deployment (sludge), and on the march, the complex will shove aside at least 30 kilometers.
  • Old26
    Old26 2 November 2020 21: 08
    +4
    Quote: agond
    The rocket can be made on liquid fuel, more precisely kerosene and oxygen, which is refueled immediately before the start, so a smaller rocket will fly farther, and the separate storage of liquid oxygen in a protected tank of a neighboring carriage will increase safety in the event of a train accident, and then oxygen, unlike heptyl, if necessary, is easier to drain and obtain from the air if the train has an expander.

    You can at least imagine how long it takes for this. How much liquid oxygen is needed to flood a rocket. Refueling a rocket in an enclosed space of a carriage - and where will you dump the oxygen vapor that evaporates during refueling? Safety in the event of an accident? what happens if the oxygen tank is damaged?
    And you can find out, but where does GEPTIL, when all BZHRK were solid fuel ???

    Quote: bk316
    Forget YOU about these contracts ALL BOBIK IS DIED. The United States has ceased to be negotiable.

    The strategic is not dead yet. In addition, even if the treaty was not ratified with the United States, both sides adhered to the main provisions, namely
    1. Ban on false launchers
    2. Ban on increasing mine PU by more than 32%
    3. Prohibition of increasing the starting weight by more than the agreed figure
    4. Prohibition of increasing BG in MIRV
    5. A ban on the deployment of missiles with a range of more than 600 km on watercraft, for
    excluding submarines
    6. A ban on the placement of BR or KR in launchers at the bottom or in the underwater
    the position of the container in the ocean
    If we violate these provisions, we will receive a response. And it's so nice with our small fleet to have several hundred containers of ballistic missiles. We won't have time to count up to two hundred before we get a nuclear charge on our heads ...
    Or the Americans will take and place the maximum ALCM on their bombers. And not 37, but all that are - and this is about 130-160. A very good response will come to us because of the stupidest proposal to set up 500 false BZHRK cars ...

    Quote: bk316
    We don't need that. We will retaliate against cities and decision-making centers. AND NOT BY EMPTY POSITIONS. This is the meaning of the BRZD as a weapon of retaliation and not a first strike.

    That is, you don't even know about the "strike at the appointed time". And with such a blow, the main target will be precisely the carriers

    Quote: bk316
    I am surprised at you, on the one hand, you are holding on to the old, as if all these agreements have not been erased. On the other hand, you are going to survive in a global nuclear conflict. I don't care how many times they kill me and in how many minutes. But I really want my killers to die guaranteed.
    It is necessary that the enemy was GUARANTEED destroyed, that's all. Then they themselves will be asked to the negotiating table. And now there is no one to talk about.
    Therefore, it is necessary to develop the strategic nuclear forces on the basis that the first blow will be struck at us, no matter what treaties there are, which means that they must be modernized in such a way that a retaliatory strike would be on anyone. It is necessary for this to place weapons on the rails - that means on the rails, under water - means under water in space - means in space.

    And yes, I understand that this increases the likelihood of an accidental war, but I am ABSOLUTELY sure that if this is not done, then there will be war. It will no longer be accidental that they will strike the first blow as soon as they decide that they can do it with impunity (with acceptable damage).

    You will be surprised, but NONE of the SALT-START treaties have been confirmed by the Americans. They came out, quite officially, from two contracts.

    That's just to guarantee that your murderers will die with such violations, we can not. I gave you an example. It is enough to place containers with ballistic missiles in the seas surrounding Russia. And there is a very high probability that not only a retaliatory strike, but also a retaliatory strike, we may fail. Just if you want your murderers to die, you should not go all out, violating the provisions of treaties

    The existing means of the Russian strategic nuclear forces are sufficient to ensure that the enemy is destroyed. We are modernizing and so. But placing "weapons on the rails" is nonsense. Stupid enough option

    Quote: Lesorub
    Here the will of the commander-in-chief is more needed to resume this project.

    What for? BZHRK is tied to the railroad. Deploying one division is a waste of money. It is easier, faster and more economical to deploy the same 3 or 4 PGRK regiments in existing divisions. The stability of the system is much higher than that of the BZHRK. In addition, these 4 additional regiments can be deployed in different parts of the country. BZHRK will be tied to the PPD and the size of the patrol zone will be small.
    And to deploy such a division would require huge sums ... In general, stupidity. Solomonov either talks about the BZHRK as a dead end, then says that they are ready to release it. It will be necessary to create anew rolling stock, build PPD, residential towns, etc.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 2 November 2020 22: 38
      +3
      Vladimir hi ,
      thanks for the objective comments! You are absolutely right.
    2. bk316
      bk316 3 November 2020 16: 19
      0
      You will be surprised, but NONE of the SALT-START treaties have been confirmed by the Americans.

      You can wipe yourself in different ways. You can just break it in silence, or you can leave at the first need.
      You may not know, but in this sense, the United States is a country of legalists (well, it was). Let everything be crazy, but according to the law. Hence the laws, to put it mildly, are so wonderful. BUT IT'S on paper, but in reality, AT THE FIRST NECESSITY OF THE CONTRACT BREAKING.
      See for yourself:
      START-3 will end in 3 months and it has already been announced that they will not extend it.
      Intermediate-range and shorter-range missile elimination treaty - US withdrawn. Unilaterally
      The US-PRO system limitation treaty was unilaterally issued
      Open Skies Treaty - USA unilaterally withdrawn
      The Treaty on the Destruction of Chemical Weapons - but this really did the US just wipe it

      WHAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO AGREE WITH THEM. REMEMBER
  • TOR2
    TOR2 2 November 2020 21: 35
    -2
    If we are already aiming at the BZHRK project, then it will be necessary to create a whole class of weapons on a railway carrier. In addition to cruise missiles, these can be mobile elements of missile defense, air defense or electronic warfare that have a fairly high energy consumption. Visually, such trains will not differ, which means that tracking the BZHRK will turn into a game of thimbles for the enemy.
  • Old26
    Old26 2 November 2020 22: 14
    +2
    Quote: TOR2
    If we are already aiming at the BZHRK project, then it will be necessary to create a whole class of weapons on a railway carrier. In addition to cruise missiles, these can be mobile elements of missile defense, air defense or electronic warfare that have a fairly high energy consumption. Visually, such trains will not differ, which means that tracking the BZHRK will turn into a game of thimbles for the enemy.

    Cruise missiles can still be placed in the BZHRK. And how, how and, most importantly, why are air defense and missile defense systems on railway platforms needed? Indeed, in addition to missiles, radars of rather decent size are also needed. Where will you hide them? In addition, the very location of air defense-missile defense systems implies a circular arrangement of these systems around protected objects? And do you know a lot of cities that have ring railways?
    And you guys don't count one. If we start playing thimbles with them, they will start with us. And no one knows who will be worse from this
    1. TOR2
      TOR2 3 November 2020 23: 34
      0
      Quote: Old26
      And how, how and, most importantly, why do we need air defense and missile defense systems on railway platforms

  • Lexus
    Lexus 2 November 2020 22: 40
    +3
    "From empty to empty". (FROM)
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 3 November 2020 07: 38
    0
    The West conducted an operation to search for Molodtsy with the help of containers. The container was loaded from the ship to the railway platform and from Vladivostok, across all of Russia to collect information. All the joke that our people knew about it. Gorby offered to drive the Molodtsy to the bases and install "corner reflectors" on them Gorby agreed. The United States was very afraid of Molodtsev because of the inability to track them. Initially, they planned to place their Peacekeepers on the railway platform too; they didn’t get lost. The private railways probably didn’t fit into the axle load. If you look at VO, they were discussed. Variants with Yars and Rubezh. The Rubezh already had documentation for production. It was too impudent on our part at that time to start production. Now the time has come, the throw-in is designed to put pressure on the United States under START 3. My personal opinion. hi
  • Old26
    Old26 3 November 2020 13: 26
    +1
    Quote: Gritsa
    It will be too expensive to contain such a number of satellites that will constantly "hang" over the entire railway system of the country.

    And why over the entire system. Deployment of 1 division is planned. The radius of the patrol zone is approximately 1000-1500 km

    Quote: Gritsa
    Yes. It has become lighter.
    By the way, somewhere infa flashed that it was not "Yars" that could be loaded into it, but "Rubezh". Which "on the shelves" is gathering dust. Dot is even easier.

    What's the point of downloading "Rubezh". which showed a range of 6500 km versus 1100 for "Yars"?

    Quote: bayard
    I have not heard such information, tests were carried out for Yars. "Rubezh" gathered under the guise of trucks on the roads to drive.
    ... But on the roads there is a risk of accidents and traffic jams ...

    The tests were carried out not for Yars, but for a rocket created on the basis of the solutions used in Yars. They even have different indexes.
    And in Furah they planned to drive "Courier", but not "Rubezh"

    Quote: K-612-O
    Barguzin will no longer be different, Yars is not a Scalpel, it weighs 42 tons, not under a hundred. And the rocket itself is more compact.

    Nobody knows this yet. The structure of the complex is NOT CLEAR. Yars weighs 46,5 tons, not 42. The missile in the TPK is actually more compact. "Molodets" was 6 meters long in TPK, "Yars" - 22,6 meters. 22 cm more compact

    Quote: K-612-O
    At the start, there is practically no load on the bogies, just as at the PGRK the car is put on "paws", and the start is mortar.

    BZHRK is not placed on its paws. The launch module, consisting of three cars with 4-axle bogies, takes the load on itself, distributing it to 3 cars or 6 four-axle bogies. This is the only way to achieve the permitted axle load of 23 tons.

    Quote: faiver
    on the contrary, it was precisely because of the load that double wheeled bogies stood not only on the cars with missiles, but also on all the other cars of the BZHRK, to distribute the load ...

    Not everyone else. Only on the cars of the launch module

    Quote: K-612-O
    Whoa yo belay, you at least watch a movie about the Good fellow. It is because of the rocket's weight of almost 90 tons. Why, then, do we have tanks with double carts driving around, also starting somewhere?

    Actually, the weight of the "Molodets" is 104,5 tons. The wagon also weighs 135 tons together with the rocket.
    Plus "kickback" at start.

    Quote: Siberianwolf
    Not true. I saw in due time (since 1989) BZHRK on the march. There were 8 axles only under the "refrigerators" with missiles. The rest are 4 axles.

    This is called, Andrei, do not believe your eyes. Above your post in the photo is a museum exhibit - BZHRK. In the foreground is the so-called. wagon of technological equipment. Count how many axles on the cart ...

    Quote: kapitan92
    With the weight and overall characteristics of the "yars", it is possible to "pack" in railway tank wagons 120 tons. (photo above).

    The lifting mechanism of the TPK will also be packed into the tank ??? Oh well. You have to understand then you drive the construction battalion and they manually put the tank "on the priest"?

    Quote: SVD68
    And their movement will not be reflected in the movement charts of Russian Railways?

    Of course they will. especially considering computerization ..

    Quote: Fan-Fan
    Civilians are monitored by civilian services, and the BZHRK is kept under special control and civilians will not know its location.

    And the dispatchers will not know that there will be a "letter" train between the passenger train # 165 and the freight train # 455. And the passage of the letter will not be consistent with the schedule of other trains? Blessed is he who believes

    Quote: VORON538
    And the start is carried out not in densely populated areas, but somewhere in the vast expanses of Russia east of the Urals

    The start will take place from the nearest field position. And where it will be - maybe 45 km from Moscow, and maybe 10 km from Rostov the Great (or Rostov-on-Don). In any case, this launch will be carried out from a field position in the division's deployment area, and not from beyond the Urals.

    Quote: KCA
    Do you know the concept of "letter train" and how does it move? OUTSIDE of all schedules, for the sake of it they can stop Sapsan for an hour, if necessary

    They can, comrade, they can. And at the same time it will be nothing more than an unmasking sign. More precisely, the letter will go out of the timetable for trains, but it will be on the timetable. The problems in the Krasnoyarsk division of the BZHRK EMNIP were due to the fact that the speed of the BZHRK was lower than the speed of the train on Transib and it broke the entire schedule.
  • Old26
    Old26 3 November 2020 13: 26
    +3
    Quote: Paranoid50
    Quote: faiver
    with the presence of the Internet and cameras in each phone, this is not a problem,

    laughing laughing laughing

    This, Alexander, is really not a problem. Photographing is carried out both professionally, in the interests of the railways, and by various bloggers. Here's an example. A photo of a certain composition in the Voronezh region (more precisely, a video). The video (photo) shows a very specific train consisting of 11 carriages, a two-system electric locomotive EP-20 (operates both on direct and alternating current) and three diesel locomotives TEP-70BS. The cars are very specific. Some have antenna skirts visible.




    Quote: Lesorub
    Yes, disposed of at the mercy of partners.

    They were disposed of already in the early 2000s due to the fact that all the garters were out. And the rocket was made in Ukraine and they would hardly prolong its operation for us

    Quote: tralflot1832
    The West conducted an operation to search for Molodtsy with the help of containers. The container was loaded from the ship to the railway platform and from Vladivostok, across all of Russia to collect information. All the joke that our people knew about it. Gorby offered to drive the Molodtsy to the bases and install "corner reflectors" on them Gorby agreed. The United States was very afraid of Molodtsev because of the inability to track them. Initially, they planned to place their Peacekeepers on the railway platform too; they didn’t get lost. The private railways probably didn’t fit into the axle load. If you look at VO, they were discussed. Variants with Yars and Rubezh. The Rubezh already had documentation for production. It was too impudent on our part at that time to start production. Now the time has come, the throw-in is designed to put pressure on the United States under START 3. My personal opinion. hi

    Maybe the Americans planned that, but it would be a one-time operation. Could they drive the container back and forth along the entire length of the Vladivostok-Moscow highway. In addition, only part of the route of the Krasnoyarsk division ran along the Transib. And in Perm and Kostroma, the BZHRK did not go to this main route.
    Even with those parameters of satellites that were in the 80s (this is "keyhole-8" with a resolution of 4 meters), they could track. Immediately after leaving the factory, under the contract, the rocket train entered a special parking lot, where it stood for several days with the roofs of the launchers open for satellites fixation. So they had satellite photos of this BZHRK. The composition was too specific - 17 cars with three diesel locomotives. They knew the base, which means they just had to find these trains in those regions in the deployment areas. So this is another bike.

    They did not put the "peacekeepers" on the rails because it turned out to be very expensive. Where they wanted to deploy them on the railways (private, by the way) there was a very busy schedule. It was very expensive to build an "Additional" road network for "Peacemaker". They fit into the axle load. Do not forget that their "Peacemaker" is 17 tons lighter than our "Molodets"
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 3 November 2020 18: 58
    0
    Do not talk, but do and do in silence! In the USSR, not fools ran the defense industry.
  • Mustachioed Georgian
    Mustachioed Georgian 4 November 2020 09: 51
    0
    It is a pity that the armored trains were not put on the side track, but cut