Military Review

Discussion of the S-400 air defense system: the United States called the condition for Turkey's return to the F-35 program

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The United States commented on Turkey's proposal to resolve the situation around the S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems acquired by Ankara from Russia. In Turkey, they proposed "to resolve the issue at the technical level", intending to return to the program for the creation of 5th generation F-35 fighters.


According to news agency TASS, the settlement of the issue between Washington and Ankara on the situation with the S-400 Triumph air defense system did not happen.

The representative of the United States said that in Washington no one denies the need for Turkey to build its own air defense, but at the same time, the United States has repeatedly turned to Ankara with statements about the inadmissibility of deploying Russian-made air defense systems.

Recall that earlier in the United States noted the impossibility of integrating the complex into the NATO air defense system. To this, Turkey noted that the deployment by Greece of the Russian S-300 air defense system did not in any way interfere with this kind of integration.

The US representative, Assistant Secretary of State Clark Cooper, stressed that in order to return Turkey to the F-35 program, it must fulfill the condition: to abandon the deployment of a Russian-made anti-aircraft missile system.

This once again makes it clear that the United States fears the capabilities of the S-400 Triumph against its fifth generation fighters.

The S-400 air defense system in the Sinop region conducted the first combat training in Turkey a few weeks ago. Shots of the transfer of complexes in the Black Sea region:

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  1. figwam
    figwam 29 October 2020 06: 15
    -6
    Turkish F-16s are already bombing Stepanakert.
    1. Fungus
      Fungus 29 October 2020 06: 19
      -3
      Shoot down a couple of f 16
      1. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 29 October 2020 06: 34
        +2
        Turkey offered to "solve the issue at the technical level", intending return to the F-5 35th generation fighter program.


        In the program CREATION F-35, mind you, not PRODUCTION ...

        A question to the United States - what then flies, is put into service, and what is more, is being sold - an "underdeveloped prototype"?
        1. Polite Moose
          Polite Moose 29 October 2020 07: 05
          +1
          Quote: BDRM 667
          In the program of CREATING F-35,

          Obviously, the subtleties of translation. Although, what are the Turks trusting to create in the design of the F-35? Painting some bracket.
          1. BDRM 667
            BDRM 667 29 October 2020 07: 10
            +6
            Quote: Polite Elk
            Obviously, the subtleties of translation. Although, what are the Turks trusting to create in the design of the F-35? Painting some bracket.

            Yes, there was information that the Turks are supplying something for production penguin.
            There was a Turkish infographic, indicating what and where on it is of Turkish origin.
            1. Polite Moose
              Polite Moose 29 October 2020 07: 30
              +1
              Quote: BDRM 667
              Yes, there was information that the Turks are supplying something for the production of the penguin.

              Maybe the Turks consider this to be a full-fledged participation in production, but they are unlikely to do something that could not be quickly established in other partner countries. In Estonia, for example. Or in Albania.
              1. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 10: 16
                0
                Quote: Polite Elk
                they are unlikely to be doing something that cannot be quickly established in other partner countries.

                The head of Lockheed thinks differently, replacing Turkey in the production of the F35 is not quick and not cheap. Here's what they do:
                1. Polite Moose
                  Polite Moose 29 October 2020 10: 26
                  0
                  Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                  replacing Turkey in the production of the F35 is not quick and not cheap

                  Then the threats of the n-owls to excommunicate Turkey from production are incomprehensible. They would press on some other corn.
                  1. OgnennyiKotik
                    OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 10: 39
                    +1
                    It is relatively painless and effective. All these exclamations are aimed at voters in the United States and at publicity in the world. Typical window dressing.
              2. ZEMCH
                ZEMCH 29 October 2020 14: 38
                +1
                Quote: Polite Elk
                Maybe the Turks consider this to be a full-fledged participation in production, but they are unlikely to do something that could not be quickly established in other partner countries. In Estonia, for example. Or in Albania.


                Turkey currently produces about 1000 different components for the F-35. Including the central part of the fuselage. Lockheed Martin estimates it will take more than a year to replace Turkey in the production chain
          2. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 29 October 2020 08: 35
            +2
            Quote: Polite Moose
            Quote: BDRM 667
            In the program of CREATING F-35,

            Obviously, the subtleties of translation. Although, what are the Turks trusting to create in the design of the F-35? Painting some bracket.


            Turkey's defense industry (MIC) enterprises are partners in a $ 35 billion F-400 project that was supposed to earn about $ 10 billion by producing about 900 aircraft parts, including critical components such as landing gear, cockpit and fuselage parts.
          3. Pravodel
            Pravodel 29 October 2020 08: 45
            -3
            Painting some bracket

            You what? Who will entrust them with painting the bracket, because it is very simple. Painting wheels, especially repainting after landing the F-35, is a very difficult, difficult and extremely necessary job that must be done in the F-35 production program.
        2. hydrox
          hydrox 29 October 2020 07: 50
          +2
          And no one bothers: at one time we very well charged Armenia with "three hundred" complexes But it seems to me that the work of fushek in Stepanakert is a fake, otherwise there would have been a video and a case of a photo ...
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 29 October 2020 07: 19
        +1
        Quote: Fungus
        Shoot down a couple of f 16

        So why did it become, go for it. Straight from your battle couch.
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 29 October 2020 06: 18
    +5

    This once again makes it clear that the United States fears the capabilities of the S-400 Triumph against its fifth generation fighters.
    Merikatos senses with his skin that the S-400 will get the penguin. Without a doubt.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 29 October 2020 06: 24
      +2
      Merikatos senses with his skin that the S-400 will get the penguin. Beyond any doubt
      .

      the pot-bellied ones are not in service with any of Erdagan's potential opponents. Of the closest - Israel, but the Jews do not meddle in the affairs of the Sultan, and in part even support him
      1. borberd
        borberd 29 October 2020 08: 26
        +1
        Israel does not support the demoniac Turk at all. Israel supports Azerbaijan due to good relations between the countries. An undersultan, when he is crushed and the doctor is far away, sometimes attacks Israel.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 29 October 2020 08: 41
          0
          I do not say completely yes but partly supports. Because, in fact, in the Middle East, Jews and Turks have almost common opponents - Assad, Egypt, etc. Israel is happy to supply the Turkish military industry with both components and ready-made weapons. So you don't need to think that there are no Kipot behind the fez wink
          1. borberd
            borberd 29 October 2020 09: 13
            +1
            Everything has changed a long time ago. As Sisi the Egyptian is not quite a friend to us, but not an enemy either. In the case of Assad, the saying does not work - "The enemy of my enemy is a friend." Military cooperation with the Turks ended about 8 years ago, when the warranty support of our drones delivered to the Turks ended. We are not supplying them with anything now. And we have nothing to do with Erdogan. How can you talk to an aggressive madman? belay
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 29 October 2020 08: 16
      -1
      Quote: aszzz888
      Merikatos senses with his skin that the S-400 will get the penguin. Without a doubt.

      TOR and BUK and even Verba will get it ... the question is, were these F-16s over Stepanokert?
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 29 October 2020 10: 16
        -1

        NEXUS (Andrey)
        Today, 08: 16
        NEW

        0
        Quote: aszzz888
        Merikatos senses with his skin that the S-400 will get the penguin. Without a doubt.

        TOR and BUK and even Verba will get it ... the question is, were these F-16s over Stepanokert?
        The article is about the 35's.
        This once again makes it clear that the United States fears the capabilities of the S-400 Triumph against their fifth generation fighters.
        And my post on the penguin is F-35.
    3. vVvAD
      vVvAD 29 October 2020 09: 36
      0
      Quote: aszzz888
      Merikatos senses with his skin that the S-400 will get the penguin. Without a doubt.

      Well, the weapon lobby has not gone anywhere. They drive themselves into a dead end:
      "If we retreat at least once ..." - they forgot how to negotiate honestly and without aplomb.
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 29 October 2020 10: 17
        0
        vVvAD
        Today, 09: 36
        NEW

        0
        Quote: aszzz888
        Merikatos senses with his skin that the S-400 will get the penguin. Without a doubt.

        Well, the weapon lobby has not gone anywhere. They drive themselves into a dead end:
        "If we retreat at least once ..." - have forgotten how to negotiate honestly and without aplomb.
        And when did the Merikatos "negotiate honestly and without aplomb"? request
  3. Same lech
    Same lech 29 October 2020 06: 25
    +2
    Here's the deal ... what NATO member persuades another NATO member to abandon the Russian S-400 ... from the outside it looks funny.
  4. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 29 October 2020 06: 26
    +3
    in Washington no one denies the need Turkey building its own air defense
    But they must buy American air defense systems. And the fear of the United States about the autopsy of the not quite "invisibility" of the F-35 is of course understandable, tk. then the whole marketing project about the miracle of the plane down the drain.
    1. vVvAD
      vVvAD 29 October 2020 09: 43
      0
      No, not so: it is necessary to comply with NATO technical standards (but from the technical point of view, they are not going to decide on the integration of the S-400 into NATO under any conditions), accordingly, the equipment should be produced by NATO countries, but the United States can make such an offer to Turkey and potential competitors (point to a place near the toilet, sorry, in Zimbabwe laughing), which they cannot refuse.
  5. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 29 October 2020 07: 06
    +2
    It's too late to drink Barjomi. The kidneys fell off.
    F-35 destined for Turkey go to Greece.
    Part of the production of components manufactured by the Turks has already been transferred to other countries. The process will be over by spring-summer 2021.
    1. novel66
      novel66 29 October 2020 07: 37
      +4
      and the S-300 Greeks do not interfere with this?
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 29 October 2020 08: 00
        +3
        The systems are very similar, only the S-300 TTX, of course, is worse and there is no missile defense function.
        But, apparently, I am a miser for the Zodiac, and I feel sorry for every S-400 car that goes "over the hill" to anyone, especially if they fall into the hands, growing "out of there" and are controlled by heads that should only drive donkeys - it hurts they create bad karma for our designers and gunsmiths.
        1. novel66
          novel66 29 October 2020 08: 01
          +1
          economy ... in order for two systems to take over duty with us, one must be driven to the side ..
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 29 October 2020 08: 16
            +1
            Yes, in our network they do not conflict - as it is clear that the replacement for "super-duper" is also needed and calms down only one thing: if we take good enough money for a used one, and we will be sided with how and against whom use them by Greeks, Jordanians and whoever ...
            And the fact that such our trade is shaking the Mirians - do it better - and you will have a queue! laughing
    2. Polite Moose
      Polite Moose 29 October 2020 07: 49
      +3
      Quote: A. Privalov
      It's too late to drink Barjomi. The kidneys fell off.
      F-35 destined for Turkey go to Greece.

      Can it be for the best? God himself ordered the Turks to work on the S-400 radar on the Greek "penguins". Especially from side views. Moreover, they will not have any remorse about "NATO - not - NATO". And they can spoil the penguin's karma. And let them tell later that all the Greek 35s fly with corner reflectors, all sorts of lenses and transponders turned on.
      1. Avior
        Avior 29 October 2020 09: 18
        +4
        The Americans fear not that the F-35 will fly in the area of ​​operation of the S-400, this is inevitable, but that tests and statistics are being collected based on the test results, with a possible leakage of their results to Russia.
        1. Polite Moose
          Polite Moose 29 October 2020 09: 55
          0
          Quote: Avior
          The Americans fear not that the F-35 will fly in the area of ​​operation of the S-400, this is inevitable, but that tests and statistics are being collected based on the test results, with a possible leakage of their results to Russia.

          Duc and I are about the same. And if as a result it turns out (officially, with the attachment of screenshots, etc.) that this Joe is not so elusive, then there will be a significant drop in demand for the F-35 and an increase in the queue for the S-400. Oto Turks and pull with the deployment. Bargaining, probably, with p-themselves is not childish.
          1. Avior
            Avior 29 October 2020 10: 55
            +2
            It will definitely turn out. Moreover, it will be reciprocal.
            If you have both an airplane and a radar station, you can catch all the nuances of the work of both.
            By itself, it is not capable of increasing the demand for either one or the other - to the right - to the left, such information is not shared.
            I think the Turks will receive the F-35 later than others, when some of these subtleties will be revealed without these tests, purely due to the fact that a large number will go into operation. It will be logical.
    3. aszzz888
      aszzz888 29 October 2020 10: 22
      -2

      A. Privalov (Alexander Privalov)
      Today, 07: 06
      NEW
      +1
      It's too late to drink Barjomi. The kidneys fell off.
      F-35 destined for Turkey go to Greece.
      Part of the production of components manufactured by the Turks has already been transferred to other countries.

      laughing lol laughing
      Turkey continues to participate in the American F-35 fighter program asserted in a letter to the head of the Pentagon, Mark Esper, authored by Republican Senators James Lankford and Tom Tillis.

      They sent a letter to the head of the US military in early July, along with their colleagues Gene Shahin and Chris Van Hollen from the Democratic camp.

      “The law passed by Congress and signed by President Trump sent a clear diplomatic signal to Turkey about the implications of advancing Russian defense systems and technologies. Unfortunately, this strong message is undermined by repeated delays in withdrawing Turkey from the supply chain, ”the message says.

      Turkish manufacturers are still manufacturing and supplying key elements of the fighter jet, senators note. although their participation in the program was due to expire in 2020.
  6. deniso
    deniso 29 October 2020 07: 43
    0
    The C-400 has already hit its target and has chipped off NATO.
  7. raki-uzo
    raki-uzo 29 October 2020 07: 44
    -2
    F35 is a prison. The pilot can lose control at any time and the computer will take him anywhere (in our case, to Israel or Greece). Would you like the dark faces to know about your task? Would you like to hear you on the task? Would you like those dark faces to explore in detail the territories, military structures and elements as you fly over it? Everyone will know everything about the trajectory of the aircraft, about the tasks, about the successes and failures ... I would not want to. Moreover, it is not clear whether we will receive spare parts tomorrow, if necessary. We do not need such a US captivity. Small loss.
  8. Thrifty
    Thrifty 29 October 2020 08: 05
    -1
    The Turks have almost created their own tank, they have the capacity, let them speed up the program of creating their own fighter, which they seem to have, too, as the 5th generation! Such a step will have an effect on the USA like a tub of cold water, the Turks themselves will begin to persuade them to stay in the program for the purchase of aviarahit, and not to create their own 5th generation fighter.
    1. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 29 October 2020 14: 45
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      The Turks have almost created their own tank, they have the capacity, let them speed up the program of creating their own fighter, which they seem to have, too, as the 5th generation! Such a step will have an effect on the USA like a tub of cold water, the Turks themselves will begin to persuade them to stay in the program for the purchase of aviarahit, and not to create their own 5th generation fighter.

      They will not create, there is no engine, and production technologies will not be transferred to them)))
  9. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 29 October 2020 09: 04
    -1
    Americans know how to play long. How many Erdogan have already been kept under the Domokles sword because of the C 400. But he is a strong guy, the EU has not accepted the EU for how many years, but how he snapped at Europe, Macron has not been heard for a long time, crying on his old shoulder ?