Military Review

PJSC "Zvezda" begins serial production of gearboxes for frigates of project 22350

149
PJSC "Zvezda" begins serial production of gearboxes for frigates of project 22350

Russia begins its own serial production of PO55 gearboxes, previously produced in Ukraine. According to the press service of PJSC "Zvezda", the gearboxes for the first domestic power plant of the Project 22350 frigate have been successfully tested and found ready for serial production.


As explained, the new gearbox was tested as part of a diesel-gas turbine unit, the designer and manufacturer of which is NPO Saturn (UEC-Saturn). The press service clarified that a large-scale project to master the production of a new type of PO55 gearboxes began in 2017.

By order of the President of the Russian Federation, the plant was given the task to master the production of new heavy gearboxes in the shortest possible time, including for the 22350 project. Previously, gearboxes of such power were never produced in the Russian Federation. This is the first and very difficult project. We managed to cope with it, and now we can meet the needs of the Russian fleet in gears of this type

- said development director of PJSC "Zvezda" Alexander Zinoviev.

The reducer provides full forward power when the gas turbine engine is running 27200 hp, when the diesel engine is running - 5069 hp; its weight is about 40 tons. The design uses only domestic components.

The next step will be the installation of the power plant on the ship under construction at Severnaya Verf, while PJSC Zvezda is manufacturing two more products for the next frigate

- said in a statement.

According to the bmpd blog, the first set of fully Russian-made PO55 gears for the DGTA-M55R diesel-gas turbine unit will be installed on the fourth frigate of Project 22350 "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Isakov", which is being built at Severnaya Verf. The next set will be made for the third frigate of project 22350 "Admiral Golovko". This is due to the peculiarity of the renewal of contracts for the production of gearboxes at PJSC "Zvezda" after the 2014 Ukrainian crisis.

It should be reminded that earlier the PO55 gear drives for Russian frigates of Project 22350 were supplied by the Ukrainian enterprise Zorya - Mashproekt (Nikolaev). Ukrainian gearboxes are installed on frigates Admiral Gorshkov and Admiral Kasatonov.
Photos used:
PJSC "Zvezda"
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  1. Maki maki
    Maki maki 26 October 2020 10: 25 New
    59
    Yes, the day before yesterday it was on the news - finally it was fixed good Well done!
    1. seti
      seti 26 October 2020 10: 44 New
      19
      Yeah. And now the desperate cry of the proto-criminals anal pain is heard even in Washington good
      Very good news indeed.
      1. Nasrat
        Nasrat 26 October 2020 10: 59 New
        -5
        1.
        By order of the President of the Russian Federation, the plant was tasked with mastering the production of new heavy gearboxes as soon as possible, including for project 22350 ... .....


        2.
        Quote: seti
        And now a desperate cry
        .

        The groan of the "fighters against the regime" has not yet been heard - the very regime that stole everything .... yes
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 October 2020 11: 11 New
          24
          Quote: Nasr
          The groan of the "fighters against the regime" has not yet been heard - the very regime that stole everything ....

          Why moan, you ask? That our would-be leaders could not figure out that building a fleet without our own, domestic engine-building is utter folly? That according to Putin's cunning plan, the fleet was supposed to run on Ukrainian and German energy?
          Now you can only rejoice that life more or less in time knocked them on the head and even though they took up their minds in this matter
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 26 October 2020 11: 26 New
            -12 qualifying.
            How fast you are ... you would have everything at once ... especially against the background of how combat-ready units were assembled throughout the country (this is when the barmaley were flooded to Dagestan) .. then of course it was necessary to worry about energy for the fleet ... ..
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 26 October 2020 11: 37 New
              19
              Quote: Nasr
              How fast you are ... you would have everything at once ... especially against the background of how combat-ready units were assembled throughout the country (this is when the barmaley were poured into Dagestan) .. here of course it was necessary to worry about energy for the fleet ...

              And for the next 14 years, what prevented you from taking care of this? "Saturn" proposed to start localizing the production of ship-borne gas turbine engines in 2009, EMNIP. But no, we waited for the pecks of a roasted rooster - and only after that we began to courageously overcome the difficulties we ourselves had created.

              Moreover, an example of the early localization of production before our eyes is the VK-2500 KB "Klimova". However, even there they were late for a couple of years - it's also good that for Boguslaev money does not smell.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 26 October 2020 12: 22 New
                    -3
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets

                    And they didn't build anything?

                    Not about that! And the fact that if there is an opportunity to use the old resources (in this case, old suppliers-factories) they will be used to the end (and rightly so!). And when access to them is cut off, new enterprises are being built - that's all!
                    Not every state can afford double costs (and to pay the former supplier, so as not to stop the construction of ships, and build their own).
                    1. aleksejkabanets
                      aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 12: 28 New
                      -4
                      Quote: Nasr
                      And when access to them is cut off ...

                      Didn't the current "leaders" take the great country away to their holes?
                      1. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 26 October 2020 12: 34 New
                        -6
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Quote: Nasr
                        And when access to them is cut off ...

                        Didn't the current "leaders" take the great country away to their holes?

                        The current ones are the previous Soviet leaders ... Every single member of the CPSU / Komsomol ..
                        The main thing is to know - the people allowed it, including you! Buzzing in the net is not a civic position, but ratism.
                      2. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 12: 50 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Nasr
                        The current ones are the previous Soviet leaders ... Every single member of the CPSU / Komsomol ..

                        Every single one who betrayed the CPSU / Komsomol, including V.V. Putin.
                        Quote: Nasr
                        The main thing is to know - the people allowed it,

                        It was easy to deceive the people then, today it is becoming more and more difficult.
                        Quote: Nasr
                        Buzzing in the net is not a civic position, but ratism.

                        Express your thoughts, which are different from the general line of Solntselikiy, according to your ratism? What then is the civic position? And ratism can be called taking away the heritage of a great country into your pockets, all the current government is soiled in this.
                      3. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 26 October 2020 14: 16 New
                        -8
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets

                        Every single one who betrayed the CPSU / Komsomol, including V.V. Putin.

                        An unprecedented number of traitors in the history of Russia, including 20 million ordinary commies !! Why think about it?

                        Quote: aleksejkabanets

                        It was easy to deceive the people then, today it is becoming more and more difficult.

                        Would you like to say that the commies were growing "vegetables", but now they can't cheat?

                        Quote: aleksejkabanets

                        Express your thoughts, which are different from the general line of Solntselikiy, according to your ratism? ...

                        Expressing your thoughts anonymously is ratism! Previously, in the kitchens, there were also booze, and when they came to work, they went to party meetings .. - here is the answer to the number of traitors ...

                        Quote: aleksejkabanets

                        What then is the civic position?

                        Openly express your opinion at officially registered rallies .. And what would it not be Uncle Zyu burukhtanil for "tick", and you personally made your way to the podium ... Better to personally organize a rally and hold it, put forward demands, claims - because you have them ... - have you tried it? Moreover, no one is interested in your opinion in the net !!!

                        Quote: aleksejkabanets

                        And ratism can be called ratting the heritage of a great country into your pockets, all the current government is soiled in this.


                        You'd better remember the revolutionary years - in the same way, everyone took everything to their pockets, even moved to the Kremlin with their families ... Then the Georgian Uncle, mustachioed, shot everyone, but the age is not the same ... But people are the same !!. ..
                2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 October 2020 16: 08 New
                  13
                  Quote: Nasr
                  Not about that! And the fact that if there is an opportunity to use old resources (in this case - old suppliers-factories) they will be used to the end (and rightly so!).

                  M-dya. Even our brilliant leadership, life still taught us something. You are not. It is already OBVIOUS that the refusal to develop its own engine building in favor of a foreign one was an MISTAKE, which thwarted the plans to create a fleet, and which then had to be overcome in a short time by creating a power plant of its own production.
                  Even now you cannot understand this
                  1. Lex_is
                    Lex_is 26 October 2020 16: 23 New
                    +5
                    So.
                    Instead of financing, in parallel, our own R&D projects for gearboxes and engines in 2009-2010, and by 2014 to receive a production ready for release, they drove money to Ukraine to the last.
                    OJSC NW Severnaya Verf, OJSC Severnoye PKB VOAO NPO Saturn, OJSC ZVEZDA puzzled the problem of import substitution only in 2014.
                  2. hydrox
                    hydrox 26 October 2020 21: 18 New
                    +4
                    Andrey, do not throw pearls in front of him, he is not able to understand this, just as he is not able to understand that the "global division of labor" is an excellent, perfectly stretched out in time, neo-globalist swindle over the ruins of the Union - yes, they grabbed it great ...
                    And the miracle is that we did realize it!
                  3. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 27 October 2020 02: 53 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Even our brilliant leadership, life still taught us something.

                    Not really taught. The fact is that we are in such a position (and have always been in it) that we, like no other country, need to have EVERYTHING and produce our own. And I'm not just talking about gearboxes. Precisely because this does not reach our helmsmen in full, we are always in the role of catch-up. Import substitution, which is advertised with such fervor by our management, is not able to quickly solve the problem of the lack of not even the parts themselves, but even the development and design technologies for the future. This problem is solved in one way - the systematic development of the industry, and the identification at an early stage of problems that may arise in the future. That is, the fleet should have started to occupy tightly 20 years ago, and then work began on the same gearboxes and not only on them.
                    Why didn't you teach me? ... Well, let's say we are developing the Zircon anti-ship missile system. With such pomp to the whole world, they said that the tests were successful, the launch video, etc. ... but for some reason our helmsmen modestly kept silent that we simply did not have a marine reconnaissance and target designation complex, so that this Zircon would fly thousands of kilometers away. Lyra hung in the air, about the Killer Whale, too, is a murky question. Now we don't even have an anti-submarine aircraft with an analogue of the Success-U complex for target designation.
                    So what about the account taught, at you got excited, namesake.
              2. Zoer
                Zoer 26 October 2020 12: 33 New
                +6
                What are the commies? The tsarist fleet is still in use. Cruiser Aurora ship # 1.
                And so cool to imagine how, for example, Marinesko torpedoes on the royal submarine "Gustlov".
                Well, google, what kind of modernization the battleships of the "Sevastopol" type have undergone, by those same commies. There, by the way, the power plant was also redesigned. yes
                1. Nasrat
                  Nasrat 26 October 2020 12: 37 New
                  -5
                  Quote: Zoer
                  What are the commies? The tsarist fleet is still in use. Cruiser Aurora ship # 1.
                  And so cool to imagine how, for example, Marinesko torpedoes on the royal submarine "Gustlov".
                  Well, google, what kind of modernization the battleships "Sevastopol" underwent by those same commies. There, by the way, the power plant was also redesigned. yes

                  My friend, is there a fact of the use of the tsarist fleet? There is! And everything that you write further, I answered the brow above, read ...
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 26 October 2020 15: 21 New
              +8
              Quote: Nasr
              The communies used the tsarist fleet until 57, what prevented them from taking care of them earlier?

              The communies, in parallel with the tsarist fleet, made their own. And they did not use exclusively the royal inheritance until the last, after which they ran along the walls, feverishly trying to build a new fleet to replace the suddenly decommissioned one. smile
              So your analogy:
              Quote: Nasr
              Not about that! And the fact that if there is an opportunity to use the old resources (in this case, old suppliers-factories) they will be used to the end (and rightly so!). And when access to them is cut off, new enterprises are being built - that's all!

              not applicable here. In parallel with the use of old ships to the end, the commies built their new ones.
              What prevented the Russian Federation, in parallel with the order of the gas turbine engine in Ukraine, to build production at home? Moreover, half of the components of the gas turbine engine for "Zori-Mashproekt" were still made in the Russian Federation.
              1. DrEng527
                DrEng527 28 October 2020 12: 51 New
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The communies, in parallel with the tsarist fleet, made their own.

                However, they did not hesitate to buy over the hill both projects that became the basis for submarines of type C, EM 7, KR pr. 26, and units - for example, turbines for 7bis ... request Yes, and whole ships were bought before the war: Tashkent, Petropavlovsk ...
                Quote: Alexey RA
                frantically trying to build a new fleet to replace the suddenly decommissioned one.

                so it was - see the laying before the war of the LK pr. 23 request
                Quote: Alexey RA
                What prevented the Russian Federation, in parallel with the order of the gas turbine engine in Ukraine, to build production at home?

                It is well known that one admiral has a son-in-law in the management of the plant ... bully
        2. 210ox
          210ox 26 October 2020 14: 08 New
          +8
          When were the parts collected? 1999-2000? How many years have passed? Remind me how many years industrialization was carried out in the USSR, and after a terrible war, a giant leap in development? Today's successes in comparison with the successes of that Great Civilization look like petty attempts.
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 26 October 2020 14: 32 New
            -3
            Quote: 210ox
            How many years have passed? ...

            20 years later ..
            Quote: 210ox
            Recall how many years industrialization was carried out in the USSR.

            And what kind of industrialization is going on now - the scale is no less ...

            Quote: 210ox
            after a terrible war, a giant leap in development? ...

            Every big war is a giant leap in development - and so throughout the entire history of man !!!
            Quote: 210ox
            Today's successes in comparison with the successes of that Great Civilization look like petty attempts. ...

            Perhaps, I am sure - you do not see the whole picture ... but you undertake to reason !!

            1. Lex_is
              Lex_is 26 October 2020 14: 45 New
              +4
              And what kind of industrialization is going on now - the scale is no less ...


              Can you tell us more about the unprecedented pace of industrialization now?
              Very interesting.
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 October 2020 16: 03 New
              14
              Quote: Nasr
              20 years later ..

              You're lying. The civil war in the USSR ended in 1922, and the beginning of industrialization is the first five-year plan, that is, 1928.
              Quote: Nasr
              And what kind of industrialization is going on now - the scale is no less ...

              You lie without blushing. During the first 13 years of industrialization, the USSR built about 9 production facilities, while a number of new industries appeared that were not in tsarist Russia. There is nothing close and similar in the Russian Federation.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 26 October 2020 23: 59 New
                +2
                Andrei hi
                It is still unknown how these gearboxes will go ... Well, if not for themselves.
              2. DrEng527
                DrEng527 28 October 2020 13: 06 New
                -2
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                The civil war in the USSR ended in 1922

                controversial ... in Central Asia it continued, and collectivization can be considered as part of the Civil War ... request
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                which were not in tsarist Russia

                so many years have passed - maybe they appeared in the Republic of Ingushetia without such stress ... the first 4 automobile plants were founded back in 1916. hi
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                There is nothing close and similar in the Russian Federation.

                You are mistaken ... request
                since 2000 built in the Russian Federation:
                1) Ports in the Baltic with a capacity of almost 200 million tons.
                2) Oil and gas pipelines of great productivity and range, which the USSR never dreamed of in the 80s ... request Moreover, DB pipes are made in our company and from our rolled products.
                3) Shipyard with a dock for 0.5 km in the Far East
                4) The number of paved roads has been doubled, and many bridges have been built.
                5) Oil refineries were reconstructed, the depth of oil refining, which was ridiculous in the USSR, was sharply increased. request
                6) Reconstructed metallurgical plants
                7) ZapSibNeftekhim was built and the problem of processing associated petroleum gas and gas condensate was solved, which was not done in the USSR request
                proceed? much is being done in the country, I would like more, but it is not reasonable to deny the obvious ... hi
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 October 2020 14: 29 New
                  +2
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  so many years have passed - maybe they appeared in RI without such stress ...

                  No, in a natural way, everything would have trudged along the knurled one. Actually, large-scale industrialization like the USSR needed masses of workers, which in an agrarian country with a predominance of the rural population could be obtained only through the mechanization of agriculture, and it would not come by itself in any way
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  You are mistaken ...

                  Alas, emoticons do not add weight to your judgment.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  since 2000 built in the Russian Federation:
                  1) Ports in the Baltic with a capacity of almost 200 million tons.

                  So what? Is that a lot?
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Oil and gas pipelines of great productivity and range, which the USSR never dreamed of in the 80s ...

                  Isn't it funny yourself? In 1990, we had 212 thousand km of trunk pipelines. In 2012 - 250 thousand km. In 2015, the figures were already called "about 250 thousand km" - the pipelines are aging, fail.
                  Have you forgotten about the epic fiasco of The Power of Siberia? The pipeline was built ...
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  3) Shipyard with a dock for 0.5 km in the Far East

                  Minor in comparison with the achievements of the USSR
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  4) The number of paved roads has been doubled, and many bridges have been built.

                  This is construction, not industrialization.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Oil refineries were reconstructed, the depth of oil refining, which was ridiculous in the USSR, was sharply increased.

                  This is yes. the factories are really reconstructed. But the amount of primary refined oil is below the 1992 level
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  6) Reconstructed metallurgical plants

                  And for smelting steel to us until 1991, as before China on all fours
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  ZapSibNeftekhim was built and the problem of processing associated petroleum gas and gas condensate was solved, which was not done in the USSR

                  Yes, nothing has been decided there. One enterprise for the whole of Russia.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  continue?

                  Better not - it doesn't work for you. And no one would have succeeded
                  1. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 28 October 2020 14: 37 New
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Actually, large-scale industrialization like the USSR needed masses of workers, which in an agrarian country with a predominance of the rural population could be obtained only through the mechanization of agriculture, and it would not come by itself in any way

                    1) Industrialization was going on in Ingushetia, just look at the growth of industry in 1909-13, the pace is higher than in 1 five-year plan and without Soviet postscripts. request The hands of workers went to the city due to the ruin of the peasants after the reforms of Stolypin.
                    2) Mechanization of agriculture went on in the Republic of Ingushetia through the use of machines driven by horses. then the tractors would have gone.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Alas, emoticons do not add weight to your judgment.

                    do you have a problem with emoticons? I sympathize... hi
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    So what? Is that a lot?

                    More than it was in the USSR in the Baltic.

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    It’s not funny for yourself?

                    funny your desire to deny the obvious ... request
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Minor in comparison with the achievements of the USSR

                    name such a dock in the USSR ...
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    But the amount of primary refined oil is below the 1992 level

                    in the RSFSR or the USSR? bully and a depth of 83% versus 64 about nothing? hi
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    And for steel smelting to us until 1991

                    do you need it? to drive St3sp?

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    ... One enterprise for the whole of Russia.

                    by no means, but I am too lazy to write further request
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    does not work for you. And no one would have succeeded

                    maybe in the mirror? hi
                  2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 October 2020 14: 53 New
                    +1
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Industrialization took place in Ingushetia, just look at the growth of industry in 1909-13, the pace is higher than in 1 five-year plan and without Soviet postscripts.

                    You don't need to watch the rates, you need to watch the volumes. There was 1 enterprise, another 1 was built - an increase of 100%, there were 50 built another 50 - an increase of 100%
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Agricultural mechanization was carried out in the Republic of Ingushetia through the use of horse-driven machines. then the tractors would have gone.

                    Yeah. Later. And Russia would have lagged 5th in line among the technical powers.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    do you have a problem with emoticons? I sympathize...

                    What kind? It's not me who put the smiley in place and out of place, after each word. So the problems are not mine.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    More than it was in the USSR in the Baltic.

                    This is, to put it mildly, not true.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    funny your desire to deny the obvious ...

                    Laugh if you can't figure it out. Laughter for no reason ...
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    name such a dock in the USSR ...

                    In the USSR, for example, Sevmash was built, up to which the current Far East attempts are 7 versts and everything is forest ... Industrialization in shipbuilding, dear people, is not measured by the length of the dock, but by the number of ships and vessels built.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    in the RSFSR or the USSR? bully and depth of 83% versus 64 about nothing?

                    RSFSR. Why - about nothing, about anything. But we process less oil
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    do you need it? to drive St3sp?

                    You at least figure out the basics to begin with, so that such epic gems do not give out. wassat
                    Industrialization is production. And if you don't make enough steel, then you make less products from it - fewer ships, machine tools, tractors, etc. If you are doing less than before, then you do not have industrialization.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    maybe in the mirror?

                    I leave it to you - I prefer statistical reference books.
                  3. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 28 October 2020 16: 33 New
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    You don't need to watch the rates, you need to watch the volumes.

                    misconception - RI was the 4-5 economy in the world! The 5% growth of heavy industry in 180 years is cool!
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Later. And Russia would have lagged 5th in line among the technical powers.

                    and something has changed under the USSR? In some ways they began to lag behind, the peak was 1950-70 ...
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    It's not me who put the smiley in place and out of place, after each word. So the problems are not mine.

                    Contact the site administration - let them clean up! bully Though nerves are better request
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    This is, to put it mildly, not true.

                    By no means, you just do not know, but you have a judgment... "The Soviet Union had 70 seaports with a cargo turnover of more than 360 million tons. The ports of the Southern Basin handled 121 million tons of export-import cargo, including 64 million tons of liquid and 57 million tons of dry cargo ships, in the ports of the North-West - 89 million tons, including 40 million tons of liquid and 49 million tons of dry cargo..... In the North-West of Russia, 37 million tons of general, bulk and bulk cargoes were handled, and not a single ton of bulk cargo. Moreover, the design capacities of the port facilities were used by 98-102% (according to world standards, they are simply colossal figures). " hi https://expert.ru/northwest/2002/01/01no-tema_52678/
                    Let me remind you that now only Ust-Luga is more than 100 million tons, St. Petersburg - 60 million tons, Vysotsk - 19 million. t. crying

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Smash if you can't figure it out. Laughter for no reason ...

                    see above ... tongue
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    In the USSR, for example, Sevmash was built

                    and in RI there are shipyards in St. Petersburg and what? Remember only what you want and is different at every moment?
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    but the number of ships and vessels built.

                    Surprise, but the Russian Federation is on the 2nd place in shipbuilding in the world ... request
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    But we process less oil

                    that's why it is less because the depth is higher ... in the Russian Federation there are 35 million cars and there is no problem with gasoline, but in the USSR there were ... oil production in the USSR in 1987 - 640 million tons, and the Russian Federation now - 560, processing is comparable , but we are already exporting oil and oil products roughly 50/50
                    .
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    You at least figure out the basics to begin with, so that such epic gems do not give out.

                    from your point of view, no more ... I will note that the Russian Federation not only provided itself, but also drives steel for export ... and then you have technically illiterate nonsense with the concepts of 40 years ago wink
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    You do less - fewer boats, machines, tractors, etc. If you are doing less than before, then you do not have industrialization.

                    Seriously? maybe you haven't got out of the scoop yet, when you counted hundreds of thousands of tractors and combines produced, and bought grain ... bully Modern industry does not consume much steel, but special alloys, etc. And instead of million tons of pipes, plastic is now being used in construction ...

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    I leave it to you - I prefer statistical reference books.

                    you don't seem to know how to understand them ... hi
                  4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 October 2020 20: 58 New
                    +2
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    you don't seem to know how to understand them ...

                    Well, let's see who can do what.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    misconception - RI was the 4-5 economy in the world!

                    What they wrote to you
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Russia would have lagged 5th in line among the tech powers.

                    Are you having trouble understanding plain text? I'm not surprised. Actually, the inability to express your feelings in words (for this you need tons of smilies) hints at this quite clearly
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    The 5% growth of heavy industry in 180 years is cool!

                    This is NOT cool, given the scantiness of the heavy industry of the Russian Empire.
                    Simply put, RI, showing such "fantastic" rates, was miserably inferior in industrial production to the United States, England, Germany and France. Or even Italy, but I can't vouch for it.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    and something has changed under the USSR?

                    In total, they became the second largest economy in the world. Otherwise, nothing.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    In some ways, they began to lag behind, the peak was 1950-70.

                    Ale, garage, we are discussing industrialization. Forgotten again? What kind of industrialization do you want after 1970?
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    "The Soviet Union had 70 seaports with a cargo turnover of over 360 million tons.

                    At the peak of development, the cargo turnover of the seaports of the USSR in 1984 amounted to 456,0 million tons. And yes, you are right, now more. But measuring industrialization by the capacity of ports is nonsense. The greater productivity of ports is evidence of greater imports, which does not at all indicate an increase in domestic production. The growth of the port economy is evidence of the raw material orientation of our economy, alas.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    and in RI there are shipyards in St. Petersburg and what? Remember only what you want and is different at every moment?

                    My dear, I have already given you an answer to this. The Russian Empire, with its industrialization, at best, was trailing behind the five strongest industrial powers in the world. And the USSR was the second. This is the true value and power of industrialization of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR. And "growth rates of 180%" and so on - this is exactly your desire to gloss over data that is inconvenient for you.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Surprise, but the Russian Federation is on the 2nd place in shipbuilding in the world ..

                    laughing fool
                    Another victim of propaganda. In the first half of the year, the total volume of shipbuilding in China amounted to 3,51 million CGT or 145 ships, South Korea - 1,18 million CGT (37 ships), Japan - 570 thousand CGT (36 ships). We are not in the top three, that is, we made less than 570 thousand tons.We made 3 thousand tons in the 860rd quarter, this is more than China's, but since the beginning of the year, China has made 4,34 million tons, we - at most 1,44 , XNUMX million tons
                    Second place, yeah.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    I will note that the Russian Federation not only provided itself, but also drives steel for export ... and then you have a technically illiterate nonsense with the concepts of 40 years ago

                    Well, what can you say? "And you, in the presence of a person with a higher economic education, allow yourself with absolutely unbearable swagger to give some advice of a cosmic scale and cosmic stupidity ..."
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Seriously? maybe you haven't even got out of the scoop when you counted hundreds of thousands of tractors and combines produced, and bought grain

                    Well, but you got out of it. If we take the Soviet standards for the production of flour and bread, then now in Russia, according to representatives of the milling industry, the deficit of class A group A milling wheat, necessary to obtain bakery flour, is 3 million tons. The rye deficit is 12%, out of the required 50 million tons, produce 5.
                    Roughly speaking, the Russian Federation has really reached the total grain production of the level of the USSR (which is ridiculous - with greatly changed technologies, the RSFSR would have been a long time ahead), but at the same time you are eating such crappy bread, which was not even close in the USSR. And you are happy.
                    Generation next, yeah.
                  5. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 29 October 2020 15: 10 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Actually, the inability to express your feelings in words (for this you need tons of emoticons)

                    Eka you are drawn to personality - then bully Drink bromine ... crying
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Simply put, RI, showing such "fantastic" rates, was miserably inferior in industrial production to the United States, England, Germany and France. Or even Italy, but I can't vouch for it.

                    the problem is that you don't know the numbers and, in fact, internally Russophobe - they re-studied Marxism request
                    statistics on http://militera.lib.ru/research/shigalin_gi/05.html
                    Smelting of pig iron (in thousand tons on average per month in 1913):
                    Russia Germany France England Italy
                    363 1074 434 869 36
                    well, yes, with a bang we concede to Italy bully
                    also on steel:
                    Russia Germany France England Italy
                    350 1276 368 649 78
                    Well, yes, we are "terribly" inferior to France - as much as 5% ... hi
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    In total, they became the second largest economy in the world. And so - nothing

                    in theory, but in reality they bought grain and transferred resources to the trash, and the people lived in poverty ... request
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    But measuring industrialization by the capacity of ports is nonsense.

                    It's clear - logistics is stupid for you ... bully
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    The growth of the port economy is evidence of the raw material orientation of our economy, alas.

                    Seriously? so, at your leisure, read about US port facilities ... bully
                    I would like to note that transit also goes through our ports, which is not a bad thing.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    What kind of industrialization do you want after 1970?

                    you don't even know that? bully listen - I'm too lazy to teach you - they don't pay for it ... I have already shown the level of failure of your knowledge on a couple of examples - on steel in the Republic of Ingushetia and ports in the Russian Federation ... how much is possible? It was after 1970 that more or less modern chemistry, electronics, etc. appeared in the USSR. I will give a generalized indicator - electricity generation in 1970 - 771 billion kWh, and in 1987 - 1 665 ...

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    And "growth rates of 180%" and so on - this is exactly your desire to gloss over data that is inconvenient for you.

                    What nonsense you have in your head ... I recommend ... http://istmat.info/node/166
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Another victim of propaganda.

                    it's you about yourself, even from the figures you quoted, funny conclusions follow ... hi

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    "And you are in the presence of a person with

                    alas, against my background you are a banal ignoramus who allows himself to speak for a professor ... I will refrain ... repeat
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Well, but you got out of it.

                    went to plagiarism? and to answers like - and there they hang blacks? bully

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    now in Russia, according to representatives of the milling industry, there is a shortage of food wheat of group A of the 3rd class,

                    "At the end of 2019, specialists from the Center for Grain Quality Assessment examined 47,7 million tons of grain crops (soft and hard wheat, barley, brewing barley, rye and corn) in 7 federal districts, in 51 constituent entities of the Russian Federation.
                    According to the data of laboratory studies of the grain of the new harvest, we can talk about the very good quality of Russian grain in comparison with previous years.
                    The increase in the share of milling wheat to 79% was due to a significant increase in grade 3 wheat from 23% to 33%, the share of grade 5 wheat decreased to 21%. "Did they lie again? Http://zerno.ru/node/8371 bully
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    but at the same time you eat so crappy bread, which was not even close in the USSR. And you are happy.

                    Again on the person ... I eat normal bread, I ate it in almost all EU countries, the USA, Japan and Korea - we have normal bread ...
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Roughly speaking, the Russian Federation has really reached the total grain production of the level of the USSR (which is ridiculous - with greatly changed technologies, the RSFSR would have been ahead a long time ago),

                    The RSFSR had 1,5 times lower yields and for 70 years could not refuse grain purchases, despite the Food Program ... Yes, you are a Marxist, a Russophobe ... request
                  6. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2020 20: 34 New
                    0
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Eka you are drawn to personality - then

                    And where is the personality to which I am, in your opinion, drawn?
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Drink bromine ...

                    Whenever I need your advice, I will ask you
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    the problem is that you don't know the numbers

                    So prove it, what's the question?
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    well, yes, with a bang we concede to Italy

                    As I said above, you have obvious problems reading plain text. I wrote
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    And even Italy, but I can't vouch for it.

                    Which of these words is not clear to you? I wrote to you in Russian and in white that the Russian Empire with all its "industrializations" occupied at most 5th place in the world, but I don't remember about Italy. Did you find the numbers that Russia was ahead of Italy and ... what? Where did it become a victory for you? :)
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Well, yes, we are "terribly" inferior to France - as much as 5% ...

                    In 1913, French industry accounted for 6,4% of world industrial production. The Russian empire - as much as 5,5%. USA - 35,8%, Germany - 15,7%, England - 14%.
                    This is the price of your "industrialization".
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    in theory, but in reality they bought grain and transferred resources to the trash, and the people lived in poverty ...

                    Don't talk nonsense, it hurts. Just during the period of industrialization, the growth rate of the population's well-being grew dramatically. The deterioration in welfare began to be noticed already during the period of stagnation.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    It's clear - logistics is stupid for you ...

                    Logistics is not stupid for me. But you don't know what logistics is.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Seriously? so, at your leisure, read about US port facilities ...

                    So, at your leisure, look at the structure of US exports and imports in the first half of the 20th century. Then, perhaps, it will come to you that in this era the United States traded in finished products, that is, its ports ensured the sale of high-value products manufactured in the United States. The fact that American ports have developed and contributed to American industrial development is just as true as it is true that today we transport gas and oil abroad through our ports and acquire sophisticated equipment with this money, that is, for us, ports are the development of trade resources, and nothing more.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    you don't even know that? bully listen - I'm too lazy to teach you - they don't pay for this ...

                    Osspad, where should you teach me? :))))
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    I have already shown the level of failure of your knowledge on a couple of examples - on steel in the Republic of Ingushetia and ports in the Russian Federation ... how much is possible?

                    On the steel in RI you failed miserably - not being able to challenge my statements about the 5th place in RI, you began to refute what I did not claim. And on the ports of the Russian Federation - yes, I have not checked the data. Alas, I am not infallible, only, unlike you, I can admit my mistakes, and this mistake of mine does not in any way indicate the triumph of your point of view, which was explained to you. Objections "in essence" you have - a kindergarten. "But in America ...." Well, yes, it's America that drives raw materials for sale all its life ...
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    It was after 1970 that more or less modern chemistry, electronics, etc. appeared in the USSR.

                    Do you understand the difference between INDUSTRIALIZATION and INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT? "Teacher" was found ...
                    Industrialization is a process of accelerated socio-economic transition from the traditional stage of development to the industrial one, with the predominance of industrial production in the economy. That is, industrialization is a transition to an industrial society.
                    Industrial development is the development of this (industrial) society. So the USSR had an excellent industrialization (there is something to argue about, but it ended roughly in the 50-60s of the last century), but, alas, it did not master the subsequent development. So the 70s is industrial development, but not industrialization.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    What nonsense you have in your head ... I recommend ... http://istmat.info/node/166

                    Have you read your own link? http://istmat.info/node/181 last table
                    Production of pig iron and steel per capita in Russia and some Western countries in 1913 (in poods)
                    USA - 20,0;
                    Germany - 15,9;
                    Belgium - 15,9;
                    United Kingdom - 9,1;
                    France - 6,3;
                    Sweden - 5,6;
                    Austria-Hungary - 3,2;
                    Russia - 1,4
                    Here is the result of tsarist industrialization. Eat, do not crap
                  7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2020 20: 34 New
                    +1
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    went to plagiarism? and to answers like - and there they hang blacks?

                    Can you clarify the purpose of this stream of consciousness?
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    alas, against my background you are a banal ignoramus who allows himself to speak for a professor ...

                    You first learn how to read your own links, "teacher" :)))))))
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    on the results of 2019 by specialists of the FGBU

                    No, don't learn.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    According to the data of laboratory studies of the grain of the new harvest, we can talk about the very good quality of Russian grain in comparison with previous years.

                    Sure. Alas, previous years in our case are a very bad starting point.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    The increase in the share of milling wheat to 79% was due to a significant increase in grade 3 wheat from 23% to 33%

                    And here is what was said in 2016 https://newsland.com/community/4765/content/v-rossii-nachinaetsia-defitsit-khlebopekarnoi-pshenitsy/5854633
                    As the head of the industry association clarified, the share of 3rd class wheat in the gross harvest of wheat in 2012 was 48,2%, in 2013 it decreased to 38,5%, in 2014 - to 34,2%, in 2015 - up to 33,2%.

                    In this case,
                    The Russian Grain Union has warned before that many producers are already using feed wheat, which is grown for livestock feed, for baking bread.

                    Well, what are you talking about here about 33%? Yes, this is a big fall, after the failures of 17-18 years, when the production of this wheat dropped to 18-23%. But this is minuscule, we did not provide the required quality of bread even at 40% or more.
                    When will you start to think at least a little that you are copying and pasting?
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    lied again?

                    Alas, what you think is a lie stems solely from your absolute inability to work with sources. You look in the book, but you see ... not at all what it says.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Again on the person ... I eat normal bread,

                    :)))) You just don't know what normal bread is
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    I ate it in almost all EU countries, the USA, Japan and Korea - we have normal bread ...

                    And who told you that he is good there? :))) Are you not aware that the USSR generally set much higher standards for food than the EU?
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    The RSFSR had 1,5 times lower yields and for 70 years could not refuse grain purchases, despite the Food Program ..

                    In fact, it's not hard for me to point out the next 5 mistakes in one of your sentences, but what's the point? Try to understand one thing - the USSR bought grain precisely because it cared about what people eat.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    So yes - you are a Marxist - a Russophobe ...

                    Yes, even a reptilian Keynesian :))))
                    "My dear Ripat!" Said Rumata arrogantly, turning to walk. "You forget that from the height of my origin you cannot see any difference even between the king and you. Goodbye." (from)
                  8. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 30 October 2020 11: 53 New
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Can you clarify the purpose of this stream of consciousness?

                    a polite response to your rudeness ... request
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    You first learn to read your own links, "teacher":

                    Unlike you, I give links, so my statements can be verified ... hi

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Alas, previous years in our case are a very bad starting point.

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    that now in Russia, according to representatives of the milling industry,

                    Now, in my understanding, this is the situation in 2020, i.e. this applies to the 2019 harvest, as harvest 2020 is still in the process of harvesting, and grain is being consumed in 2019 ... Therefore, you were caught in another lie ... request Then came the convulsions of the Amazon ... wink
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    When will you start to think at least a little that you are copying and pasting?

                    pay it to yourself ...
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    And who told you that he is good there? :)

                    but I don't have to speak, I have a sense of smell and touch and see the world with my own eyes ... hi
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Are you not aware that the USSR generally set much higher food standards than the EU?

                    you are funny ... "Soviet means the best" bully
                    1) it was only in the USSR that all by-products were taken into account in the reports in the production of meat ...
                    2) "The European Union was created by the Maastricht Treaty of 1992, which entered into force on November 1, 1993," Let me remind you that the USSR flag was lowered on December 31, 1991 bully
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Try to understand one thing - the USSR bought grain precisely because it cared about what people eat.

                    I burst into tears ... crying Did they live in the USSR? Have you poured sour cream into a jar? Did you drink 2% milk? Did you buy bread that was not mixed? Or did you get old and everything was fine in your youth? hi

                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    It's easy for me to point out the next 5 errors

                    am I waiting or in the bushes with otmazon - not in the horse feed? bully
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    You forget that from the height of my origin, there is no difference, even between the king and you

                    You definitely have a syndrome of denial of your personality - which is typical for a graduate of the economics department of a provincial university ... bully well, and a commoner who throws phrases either professors or nobles ... fool
                2. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 30 October 2020 11: 30 New
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  And where is the personality to which I am, in your opinion, drawn?

                  you definitely have an inferiority complex - either the emoticons strain, then write the sheets with a non-personality answer request
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  but about Italy - I don't remember.

                  then why did you mention it? At the same time, they forgot AB ...
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  This is the price of your "industrialization".

                  This is not my industrialization, but my Motherland, which was then called RI ... however, it is difficult for the scoops to understand, although the history and mathematics should have taught a specific historical approach ... bully Since the era of IA3, RI has confidently developed industrially, despite all the obstacles. Alas, IE2 was not smart enough not to get involved in wars, like his father ...
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Just during the period of industrialization, the growth rate of the population's well-being grew dramatically.

                  you again switched to juggling with dates - it seems that earlier you understood industrialization as five-year plans BEFORE the war ... and so during the first five-year period, the level of consumption fell from 70 to 40% ... I hope you understand what this means? I will note that in 1909-13 it did not fall below 69%. As for the standard of living in the USSR, it began to noticeably grow only with LIB!

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  how true is it that today we are transporting gas and oil abroad through our ports, and
                  Surprise, the USA does this too:
                  "On March 8, 2019, the export of liquefied gas to the EU countries from the United States increased to 7,9 billion cubic meters. And for the period from July 25, 2018 to early March 2019, there was an increase of 181% compared to the same period in 2018."
                  Your 2nd standards amuse ... I note that we "drive" over the hill through ports and oil refining products, fertilizers, steel, grain ...
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  On steel in RI you failed with a crash

                  if not a secret in what? that I showed that RI was only 5% behind France? bully
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Well, yes, it's America that has been driving raw materials for sale all its life ...

                  Drives and does not consider it shameful when it is profitable ... hi And even bends over his allies in order to buy the gas of freedom ...
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  but it ended roughly in the 50-60s of the last century)

                  Earlier you wrote about 13 years before the Second World War - quote or remember? bully By the way, switching to terms means draining, as teenagers say ... request
                  Let me enlighten you - the share of the urban population in the country can be considered a generalized criterion of industrialization "According to the results of the 1959 census, the total population of the USSR was 208,8 million people. The share of the urban population is 48%." Only in 1970 it became - 56% ...
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Iron and steel production per capita population in

                  the classic of rigging has gone!
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Eat, do not crap

                  Internal culture is always visible during discussion ... bully
                3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 October 2020 17: 20 New
                  +1
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  a polite response to your rudeness ...

                  That is, when you write to me
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  maybe you haven't crawled out of the scoop yet

                  This is courtesy. And when I answer you
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Well, but you got out of it.

                  That is, of course, unthinkable rudeness. Double standards, they are so double :)))
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Now, in my understanding, this is the situation in 2020, i.e. this applies to the 2019 harvest, as the harvest of 2020 is still in the process of harvesting, and the grain is being consumed in 2019 ... Therefore, you were caught in another lie

                  fool Sorry, you are really SO limited in your ability to analyze the numbers presented, or you have simply closed your eyes and shouted "take it!" for lack of sane argumentation? :)))
                  You were shown in Russian on white the fall in the production of food wheat during 2012 - 2017. (from 48,2 to 18%) All that you were able to do was to find a piece, according to which we did not reach the level of 2019 in 2016, most likely, the year (33%). If you were a person, you would admit your mistake, but where is it - you still manage to accuse me of lying! :)
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  I have a sense of smell and touch and see the world with my own eyes ...

                  Well, ask someone to explain to you exactly what you see and feel. You have obvious problems with interpretation.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  you are funny ... "Soviet means the best"

                  In foodstuffs - just like that. And the fact that you do not know this very well shows the level of your knowledge. Tell me, do you ever see the sun? Or does the skirting cover?
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  1) it was only in the USSR that all by-products were taken into account in the reports in the production of meat ...

                  Yes, we did. These are the features of statistics that you need to know when comparing it with foreign ones. Only now your attempts to prove the unprovable have taken on a completely ugly character.
                  The quality of food is determined not by how statistics take it into account, but by recipes of preparation and growing methods, as well as by the requirements for the content of certain substances in the finished product. You, at every step accuse me of lying, substitute one concept for another.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  "The European Union was created by the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, which entered into force on November 1, 1993,"

                  Yes, and I called the EU - you are so inadequate that you did not understand what I mean by the European countries that subsequently joined it?
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  I burst into tears ... crying did you live in the USSR? Have you poured sour cream into a jar?

                  They poured :))) And I will reveal to you a military secret. In the production of sour cream by the industrial method, sour cream made from 100% milk MUST flow :))))) Thick sour cream can be obtained only at home. Industrial is liquid by definition.
                  But the thesis has taken root in everyone's mind that if it is liquid, then it is diluted. And so, in order to meet the requirements of consumers who
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  I have a sense of smell and touch and see the world with my own eyes ...

                  But alas, they do not see beyond their own nose, vegetable fats have been added to sour cream everywhere, which give the effect of thickening (but make sour cream much less useful for health). As a person who once worked in the dairy industry, I am telling you this.
                  Eat, do not crap. You see with your own eyes - a natural product! fool
                  It is said about you: "they seeing do not see, and hearing do not hear, and do not understand;"
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  waiting or in the bushes with otmazon

                  Yes, no question, answer with steel, answer with a grain of at least something sane (more precisely, admit that you are wrong for a clear loss) - and we will continue.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  you definitely have a syndrome of denial of your identity

                  Will the painters still diagnose me here? :)
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  then why did you mention it?

                  Because I did not remember the attitude of the Italian industry towards RI - and wrote it.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  This is not my industrialization, but my Motherland, which was then called RI ... however, it is difficult for the scoops to understand

                  No, it's hard for you to understand :)))) I, you see, do not divide my ancestors and fellow citizens into "tsarist", "soviet" and so on - this is all my Motherland and my history. But dividing it into periods, with the contemptuous "scoops" or "crustaceans" - this is not a big deal. However, you will not understand this.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Since the era of IA3, RI has confidently developed industrially, despite all the obstacles.

                  And it developed right up to the 5th place in the world.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  you again switched to juggling dates - it seems that earlier you understood industrialization as five-year plans BEFORE the war ...

                  Quote where I said it.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  So during the first five-year plan, the level of consumption fell from 70 to 40% ... I hope you understand what this means? I will note that in 1909-13 it did not fall below 69%. As for the standard of living in the USSR, it began to noticeably grow only with LIB!

                  Sit down, deuce. https://istmat.info/node/18419. This is not to mention the mass of consumer products that, before the USSR, were either completely inaccessible, or were expensive, or it was plainly impossible to use them - such as medicine and education, for example.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Surprise, the USA does this too:

                  Go crazy :))) And now, having found 2 figures that seem to be clear to him, Sergey, giggling happily, rushed to copy-paste what he could not understand.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  On March 8, 2019, the export of liquefied gas to the EU countries from the United States increased to 7,9 billion cubic meters. And for the period from July 25, 2018 to early March 2019, there was an increase of 181% compared to the same period in 2018. "

                  What was told to you? See STRUCTURE OF EXPORT AND IMPORT. Moreover, in the FIRST HALF OF THE PAST CENTURY. You are sculpting me an increase in LNG in 2019. How else can I tell you so that you understand?
                4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 October 2020 17: 20 New
                  +2
                  US export structure in 2019
                  Oil and petroleum products - 194 billion
                  Chemical products - 118 billion (of which plastics - 37 billion, organic chemistry - 29 billion, fertilizers - 9 billion)
                  Food industry - 131 billion
                  Metals - 82 billion
                  Industrial equipment - 416 billion (electric generators for 56 billion, oilfield equipment for 20 billion, motors and pumps for 25 billion, semiconductors for 50 billion, telecom equipment for 35 billion, computers and peripherals - for 49 billion, measuring instruments for 25 billion)
                  Civil aircraft and parts for them - 125 billion (44 - aircraft, 82 - parts)
                  Cars, buses, trucks, engines and parts - 162 billion
                  Durable goods - 108 billion
                  Consumer goods - 98 billion
                  That is, the Americans only sell wheeled vehicles almost as much as oil.
                  Show our export statistics?

                  Mineral products (TN VED codes 25-27) - 63,33% of the total volume of Russian exports (in 2018 - 64,79%);
                  Metals and metal products (TN VED codes 72-83) - 8,87% of the total volume of Russian exports (in 2018 - 9,88%);
                  Chemical industry products (TN VED codes 28-40) - 6,39% of the total volume of Russian exports (in 2018 - 6,09%);
                  Food products and agricultural raw materials (TN VED codes 01-24) - 5,85% of the total volume of Russian exports (in 2018 - 5,53%);
                  Machinery, equipment and vehicles (TN VED codes 84-90) - 5,32% of the total volume of Russian exports (in 2018 - 5,13%);
                  Precious metals and stones (TN VED code 71) - 3,61% of the total volume of Russian exports (in 2018 - 2,24%);
                  Wood and pulp and paper products (TN VED codes 44-49) - 3,02% of the total volume of Russian exports (in 2018 - 3,10%).

                  Sergey, I'm tired of it, honestly. Either you are lying to your face, or you do not know at all the subject about which you undertake to discuss.

                  Quote: DrEng527
                  that I showed that RI was only 5% behind France?

                  You didn't show it. You showed that RI was 5% behind in the production of steel, and you cringe that in general, RI was inferior in industry by 5%. In reality, more than 16% (Russia 1913. Statistical and documentary reference book. Publishing house "Russian-Baltic Information Center" BLITZ ", St. Petersburg 1995. and Modern History Sourcebook: Tables Illustrating the Spread of Industrialization.)
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Earlier you wrote about 13 years before the Second World War - quote or remember?

                  You better read it. When you find where it says that industrialization ended before the war - bring it :))) See how kind I am? I am pouring straws for you into the next puddle into which you are striving so.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Let me enlighten you - the share of the urban population in the country can be considered a generalized criterion for industrialization.

                  Sit down, deuce. Not the share of the urban population, but the share of workers and employees and the peasantry. So in 1959, with a population of 208 million people. workers and employees were 142,7 million, collective farmers and individual farmers - 66,1 million.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  By the way, going to terms means draining

                  And the name "Sergei" means an automatic victory in any discussion, right? I'm sorry, but your criteria ... well, how would it be polite ... Generally not interesting. And you need to know the terminology at least a little.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  the classic of rigging has gone!

                  Super :))) That is, when I take YOUR link and poke you into the figures for comparing the achievements of the Republic of Ingushetia and other countries - is this a classic of rigging?
                  Okay. If someone reads this correspondence, I think he already understood everything.
                5. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 2 November 2020 14: 39 New
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Sergey, I'm tired of it, honestly.

                  then don't run in circles ...
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  That is, the Americans only sell wheeled vehicles almost as much as oil.

                  in other words, do you admit that they are selling oil abroad? hi
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  You showed that RI lost 5% in steel production, and

                  moreover, before WW1 ... during the war in France, the decline in production was stronger and in RI they began to produce MORE steel than in France ... request
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  and you twist

                  these are your conjectures, no more - I have it written for sure ...

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  So in 1959, with a population of 208 million people. workers and employees were 142,7 million, collective farmers and individual farmers - 66,1 million.

                  you are funny bully those. Have you ever had children? pensioners? Are the employees teachers and doctors? and how do they relate to production? bully
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  And you need to know the terminology at least a little.

                  pay it to yourself ... bully
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Not the share of the urban population, but the share of workers and employees and the peasantry

                  if not a secret, master instructor - where does the postulate come from? bully and where do you write down the workers of the state farms? bully
              3. DrEng527
                DrEng527 2 November 2020 14: 07 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                This is courtesy. And when I answer you

                re-read the thread - you started to be rude and get personal ... request
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                You were shown in Russian and white falling production of food wheat during 2012 - 2017 (from 48,2 to 18%

                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                As the head of the industry association specified, the share of wheat 3rd class in the gross harvest of wheat in 2012 amounted to 48,2%, in 2013 it decreased to 38,5%, in 2014 - to 34,2%, in 2015 - to 33,2%.

                You directly point out your Russophobic lie, but you continue to lie ... request
                what for? See above - quotes from you! I'll chew for you - grade 3 and milling wheat is DIFFERENT! Bread is baked from 3-5 grade wheat ... hi
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And the fact that you do not know this very well shows the level of your knowledge.

                By no means - against my background, you are illiterate request And I showed it to you several times.
                I will tell you again about the Soviet ... http://docs.cntd.ru/document/1200016992
                We read GOST 23670-79 Cooked sausages. Most interesting are the notes:
                to table 1
                "3. In sausages, separate, separate lamb, pork, canteen, Moscow, tea it is allowed to replace 2 kg of beef or pork with 2 kg of potato starch or wheat flour."
                to table 4
                "It is allowed instead of beef, pork, lamb, joint use of a protein stabilizer, mass of beef or pork or lamb, food plasma (serum) of blood, starch or wheat flour."
                "trimmed buffalo meat, yak meat instead of trimmed beef of the corresponding grade in the production of premium sausage products up to 50%, first and second grades up to 100%;"
                "a hemoglobin preparation or food blood in an amount of 0,5-1% by weight of raw materials;

                extracts of spices and garlic instead of natural ones;

                trimmed beef trimmed in an amount of up to 10% - for beef wieners and wieners of the first grade and up to 30% - for tea sausage, beef bread to the mass of trimmed beef of the second grade, provided for by the recipes, instead of its corresponding amount;

                trimmed pork meat trimmed in an amount of up to 10% - for boiled sausages, meat loaves, first grade wieners and up to 20% - for boiled sausages, meat loaves of the second grade to the mass of trimmed semi-fat pork provided for in the recipes, instead of its corresponding amount. Joint use of trimmed meat beef trimmed and trimmed meat pork trimmed is not allowed;

                a protein stabilizer to the mass of raw materials in an amount of up to 5% - for boiled sausages, small sausages and meat loaves of the first grade and up to 6% - for boiled sausages and meat loaves of the second grade; "
                to. tab. five
                "7. When using starch or wheat flour instead of meat, their mass fraction in the finished product should not exceed 2% in Moscow sausages, separate, separate lamb, pork, canteen, tea."
                Enough? I'll chew it - if it is allowed in the GOST, then you can put different substitutes instead of meat! Soviet means the best? hi
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Are you so inadequate that you did not understand what I mean by the European countries that subsequently entered it?

                just learn to express your thoughts in an accessible form so that you don't have to think out for you ... and not blame the mirror ...
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Yes, not a question, answer

                those. again in the bushes from the specifics?
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Industrial is liquid by definition.
                But the thesis has taken root in everyone's mind that if it is liquid, then it is diluted.

                the funniest thing is that you judge what you do not know at all ... modern sour cream is thick ... I will say more when I ate it in 1991 in Belarus in the canteen of a funny organization - so there she was thick and ate it with a spoon! But I drank it from the BNPP canteen ...

                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Will the painters still diagnose me here? :)

                you are funny, I will not answer your vulgarities - it is humiliating ...
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And it developed right up to the 5th place in the world.

                and what's wrong with that? In 1913, LK, KR and EM were built in RI according to their own projects, 20 years later they were bought in the USSR.
              4. DrEng527
                DrEng527 2 November 2020 14: 24 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Sit down, deuce.

                you, like an economist ... bully I wrote about the share of consumption in GDP

                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                This is not to mention the mass of consumer products that were either not available before the USSR

                look at your table ... 1913/1937
                meat and bacon (with skins) 28/18
                fish 6,7 / 5.6
                milk 154/138
                eggs 48/43
                do you have a self-prop bully
  • Fmax
    Fmax 26 October 2020 23: 15 New
    +4
    And what is there to argue? In all the immense, with a huge number of amateur fishermen, there is not a single engine for motor boats and boats of Russian production. We even buy imported bait. And you mean the success of the fleet%)
    1. Grits
      Grits 27 October 2020 05: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: FMax
      And what is there to argue? In all the immense, with a huge number of amateur fishermen, there is not a single engine for motor boats and boats of Russian production.

      So there are no engines not only for ships and boats. No engines for aircraft and helicopters, no engines for UAVs. No engines for trucks and cars. There are no engines, forgive me, Lord, even for a simple walk-behind tractor or moped.
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 October 2020 15: 54 New
    11
    Quote: Nasr
    especially against the background of how combat-ready units were assembled throughout the country (this is when the barmaley were flooded to Dagestan) .. here, of course, it was necessary to worry about energy for the fleet ..

    wassat fool
    And what is Dagestan with the Barmaley? Let's get it straight - the Tatar-Mongol yoke is to blame. In everything. And VVPutin is inconceivably courageous overcoming grave consequences ...
    And you would at least turn on your head sometimes. I understand that the supporters of the GDP have dried up this body as unnecessary, but still. The country, under the leadership of our great GDP, was going to build dozens of frigates and corvettes, not counting other warships. That is, there were resources for this case, and your argument is meaningless. And if it were not - then why were they going to build?
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 28 October 2020 13: 12 New
      -1
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      And if it were not - then why were they going to build?

      ask the same question to the IVS about its shipbuilding programs, both before the war and after ... request This has been living in our country for a long time - since the construction program of the EBR in 1881 wink
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 October 2020 14: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: DrEng527
        ask the same question to the IVS about its shipbuilding programs, both before the war and after ..

        Vissarionych gave an excellent answer to this question - after the deployment of the construction of the Navy, before the war, he received a lot of warships.
        By the beginning of World War II, the ship structure of the USSR Navy consisted of 3 battleships, 7 cruisers, 59 leaders and destroyers, 218 submarines, 269 torpedo boats, 22 patrol ships, 88 minesweepers, 77 submarine hunters and a number of other ships and boats. as well as auxiliary vessels. Most of these ships were built in the USSR (some were completed, battleships were modernized)
        I generally keep quiet about the post-war
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 28 October 2020 16: 52 New
          -1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Vissarionich gave an excellent answer to this question -

          what a substitution of concepts ... bully the question is how much they planned to build ...
          for example:
          53 sevens were laid ... 28 were completed, converted into 7bis - 18 ... EM, to put it mildly, not very much in terms of range and seaworthiness ... request
          4 LK project 23 was laid ... completed - 0 ...
          laid 5 KR pr. 68 ... commissioned 5, but in 1950 ...
          as for the submarine, then 100 submarines of type M are ballast ... hi
          "During the war, not a single" Baby "of series VI and VIbis had success. Of all the boats, only the Black Sea M-55 managed to use weapons twice and both times to no avail. That is, 50 boats of these series could not make any contribution to the defeat of the enemy.
          Unlike their predecessors, the XII series submarines turned out to be quite successful and competitive in comparison with the older ships. The northern "Malyutki" sank four enemy transports and three warships, and damaged another transport. Black Sea - seven transports were sunk, three more and one warship was damaged. Plus a transport sunk by a 45mm cannon. In the Baltic, the "Malyutki" did not manage to sink a single vessel. Total on the account of the "Malyutok" series XII fifteen sunk and five damaged transports and warships, according to reliable data confirmed by both sides.
          The result of the combat activity of the series XV boats was the sinking of one warship. "
          12 series were built 46 pcs. 14 during the war - 4 pcs.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 October 2020 21: 04 New
            +3
            Quote: DrEng527
            what a substitution of concepts ... bully question how much they planned to build ...

            For you - a question. Everything is obvious to me.
            Quote: DrEng527
            53 sevens were added ... 28 were completed, converted into 7bis - 18 ... EM, to put it mildly, not very in range and seaworthiness ... request
            4 LK project 23 was laid ... completed - 0 ...
            laid 5 KR pr. 68 ... commissioned 5, but in 1950 ...

            Yeah. But there is a nuance. Stalin was prevented from completing the said ships by the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR. But at the same time, literally in ten years we received a very decent fleet in terms of number.
            What prevented Putin?
            Quote: DrEng527
            During the war years, not a single "Baby" series VI and VIbis had success.

            Look at what submarines the Germans built before the war. 50 submarines type II.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 29 October 2020 15: 27 New
              0
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Stalin was prevented from completing these ships by the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR

              which speaks only of his poor analysis of the situation, no more ... building 4 LK and forming 29MK is a conceptual insanity ... request

              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              50 submarines type II.

              So what? The Germans had the restrictions of Versailles! At the same time, they launched good sevens into a giant series, and ours drove a series of modernized babies after the war ...
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2020 19: 28 New
              0
              Quote: DrEng527
              which speaks only of his poor analysis of the situation, nothing more ...

              Rather, about your ignorance of history and lack of understanding of the logic of the development of political processes and the armed forces.
              Quote: DrEng527
              to build 4 LK and form 29MK is a conceptual insanity ...

              Insanity is making categorical statements without having at least a minimal knowledge of the subject you are trying to judge. Just 4 LK and 29 MK were perfectly conceptually substantiated. Yes, in retrospect it can be argued that this was a mistake, but at the time, based on the data available to the ITT, it did not look like that.
              Quote: DrEng527
              So what? The Germans had the restrictions of Versailles!

              Listen, let us, before you blurt out something like this, study the issue, at least minimally. Submarines were banned by Germany under Versailles. They began to be put into operation after Hitler unilaterally annulled Versailles. And after that, no restrictions were in effect, nevertheless, in the period 1935-41, the Germans built fifty of their own "babies"
              Quote: DrEng527
              and ours drove a series of modernized babies after the war ...

              Uh-huh. Quite a decent XV series. And yes, all the same TYPES of submarines were chosen by sailors, not IVS.
            3. DrEng527
              DrEng527 30 October 2020 10: 58 New
              -2
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Rather, about your ignorance of history and lack of understanding of the logic of the development of political processes and the armed forces.

              blah blah blah... wink It is impossible to be strong everywhere - this is the basics of strategy ... therefore either tanks or the fleet!
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              but at the time, based on the data available to the ITT, it did not look like that.

              Seriously? It is necessary either to prepare for a war with Hitler. then the linear fleet a priori is not needed, or in alliance with Hitler to prepare for war with England - but then 29 MK is unnecessary! Getting ready to fight Hitler and England is a fantastic stupidity, however, like the war with England, behind which the United States stands! However, most of the strategic decisions of the IVS were not far-sighted, both before the Second World War and after ... except for one area - the struggle for personal power ... bully although there he was outplayed and removed ... request
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              study the question, at least minimally.

              and you will learn to read and understand the text - where did I write that the Germans were building type 2 before 1935 in Germany? It was due to the restrictions that the Germans were designing submarines abroad, therefore they did not build what they wanted after 1935, but what they could!
            4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 October 2020 17: 27 New
              +2
              Quote: DrEng527
              You can't be strong everywhere - this is the basics of strategy ... therefore, either tanks or the fleet!

              Gods, what nonsense ...
              Quote: DrEng527
              It is necessary either to prepare for a war with Hitler. then the linear fleet a priori is not needed, or in alliance with Hitler to prepare for war with England - but then 29 MK is unnecessary!

              Sergei I will not even comment on THIS, because you absolutely do not understand what you are writing about, and it is unnecessary to waste my time on you.
              If anyone reading this correspondence is wondering where my opponent is wrong, write me a comment and I will answer.
              Quote: DrEng527
              and you will learn to read and understand the text - where I wrote that the Germans were building type 2 before 1935

              Do not spin the snake in the pan. You told me in your blue eye that
              Quote: DrEng527
              The Germans had the restrictions of Versailles!

              I reminded you that the Germans abandoned Versailles in 1935 and that the Versailles restrictions did not regulate the size of submarines - they forbade them to be built AT ALL.
              Sergei, gather your courage and admit your own mistake at least once. At least - to myself
            5. DrEng527
              DrEng527 2 November 2020 14: 42 New
              0
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Gods, what nonsense ...

              only for you...
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Sergey I will not even comment on THIS, because you have absolutely no idea what you are writing about

              went vulgar otmazons, instead of specifics ... bully
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Do not spin the snake in the pan.

              this is your path! precisely because of the limitations of Versailles, the Germans did not build normal submarines - it is corny that there were no projects of medium and large submarines!
  • musorg
    musorg 26 October 2020 11: 50 New
    +2
    Where have you been before?
  • peter rusin_2
    peter rusin_2 26 October 2020 17: 32 New
    0
    Here you are a clairvoyant and lacked! That he was silent, fiddling about the Maidan, Belarus and Karabakh ??
  • Fmax
    Fmax 26 October 2020 23: 12 New
    0
    by the way on the same rake came in due time RI.
  • Civil
    Civil 26 October 2020 19: 35 New
    +2
    1. It is certainly joyful.
    2. But it's too late, the country is broke ...
  • donavi49
    donavi49 26 October 2020 11: 09 New
    +3
    Why?

    The second pair (under construction in India) 11356 has already gone to work and money.


    As Visahapam type, active work, each destroyer has 4 turbines and 2 gearboxes.


    Well, the Chinese conveyor will feed for sure. So far, each QC-280 is based on a Zorevsky kit. Yes, only individual sites are loaded, not a full cycle, but still, volumes for hundreds of turbines.

    1. bayard
      bayard 26 October 2020 12: 06 New
      +6
      But everything could have been much better, and even more fun, if the right decision had been made in 2014 and the "Ukrainian question" had been resolved ... And there would have been no problems with marine engine building from the word at all, and in service for a long time there would be not 2 frigates 22350, but at least four, and a series of Black Sea frigates would have been completed long ago and in service (6 frigates 11356) and many other projects would have been successfully implemented today ... all (!) available in both (!) countries "Ruslan" ... and the Be-200 would have been serially built for a long time ... and there would be no headache in military transport aviation, problems with the Il-112 and Il-114 ... even with remotorization "Superjets", with helicopter and turboprop engines, aircraft engines in general ... with turbines for nuclear icebreakers and nuclear power plants (and delays in the commissioning of a series of new generation nuclear icebreakers) ... and many other problems.
      Because Russia is not the Russian Federation within its present borders.
      Because the crimes of the Belovezhsky conspiracy have not been condemned and the consequences have not been comprehended from the legal, legal, national, economic and social aspects ...
      There was a chance to fix everything ...
      And now ...
      We are glad that after more than six years of heroic efforts we managed to assemble the gearbox ... but a year ago they promised to install it on the third frigate of the series by the end of this year and test it on the move ... Now they put it on the 4th and it is not known when sea ​​trials ... Apparently, it was not possible to install a power plant on the launched hull of the 3rd frigate of the series ...
      ... It is, of course, good ... but as in that saying: "Good, good, but not very good" ... Timing habitually and confidently crawls to the right ...
      Who builds like this?
      Who is planning this?
      Who is responsible for this? ...
      In the fight against common sense, he confidently wins ...
      ... But at least they began to sculpt the second set ...
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 26 October 2020 12: 34 New
        12
        Solve the Ukrainian issue in 2014? That is, before the eyes of the whole world, to conduct a war of conquest, to defeat and occupy the second largest country in Europe, which did not attack Russia and, without any legal justification, seize several regions from it? belay Are you sure that even China would have swallowed this? Is this what you mean? belay And how long would it have to occupy? 10 years old, 20, 30? What forces, after all, the National Guard did not exist then? Suppress riots and uprisings with what? AND ON WHAT BASIS? How would the flow of coffins, both ours and others', be justified? And how would ordinary people react after the introduction of not Western sanctions, but UN sanctions with a drop in living standards 2 times? Are you sure that in the next elections they would not vote for the one who would promise to return everything back? After the drop in living standards by 10 percent after the Crimea, the townsfolk already squealed, hanging all the dogs on a bear cub, and if only by 50 percent? request It is clear that all problems in 10 years would have been solved, but are you sure that our citizens would have given hands-woo these 10 years? Look, we have planned the import substitution of Ukrainian names for the military-industrial complex until the age of 23, but if we were to cut off serious imports at all then? How many decades would it have been replaced, and for how many years would our industry be thrown back without imports? request
        To make it clear, I believe that the state of Ukraine should not be in any form, and the Russian lands should return to a single country. But Wishlist is one thing, and reality is another. For such things, you need a "window of opportunity". Resources and funds. And most importantly, you need serious financial, technological, food and economic independence. Since the age of 14, we have made great progress in this respect, but the work is still for years, and maybe for decades. hi
        1. bayard
          bayard 26 October 2020 14: 31 New
          12
          Quote: g1v2
          Solve the Ukrainian issue in 2014? That is, before the eyes of the whole world, to conduct a war of conquest, to defeat and occupy the second largest country in Europe, which did not attack Russia and, without any legal justification, seize several regions from it?

          Why conquer?
          Didn't the legitimate president of Ukraine, Yanukovych, ask for the same?
          About assistance in suppressing an anti-state armed fascist rebellion?
          Russia's actions, had they been undertaken then, would have been absolutely legal and legitimate. And no war would have happened. It's just that the rebellion in the eastern regions would have died out (and it was not there) by itself and with popular jubilation, and an anti-terrorist operation would have been carried out in the western regions, and mainly by the power structures of Ukraine itself (!).
          Only generals and a small part of officers were overbought in power structures. Neither the army nor the Ministry of Internal Affairs would have rendered any resistance, let alone the LEGAL power of their state. I know this as an eyewitness and participant in those events. It was this behavior of Russia that both people and security officials expected. And at least as a part of Russia, at least in the Eurasian Union with the formation of a military-political union, the majority of the population would have accepted it AS MUST, because this was the aspiration of the majority of the population.
          And the uprisings throughout the Southeast rose not just in support of Crimea, but also as a condition and external background for precisely such - the RIGHT actions of Russia.
          And I am writing to you from Donetsk, but at the time of the beginning of all the events I lived a little ... to the west ... in the neighboring region of Donetsk.
          You can't even imagine what the movement and upsurge was in anticipation of Russia's intervention in the bedlam arranged in the country.
          THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITIES WAS THEN.
          But Russia and its leadership were NOT READY for this.
          Olympics, misinformation from the Russian embassy in Ukraine and those responsible for monitoring the situation ...
          It was the misinformation about the real moods with society and law enforcement agencies that tied the hands and thoughts of the Russian leadership.
          They listened to the wrong ones.
          Therefore, when we rose to fight ... they did not understand us, they did not expect this ...
          And they began to negotiate with the ENEMY.
          But in the hands was the "golden share of Ukraine" - the legitimate president of the country Yanukovych. Had he appeared with Russian support, no one from the siloviki would have dared to look towards the conspirators.
          I know this personally.
          And all the zaprodants had already been identified and would have been rendered harmless as soon as possible. And suppression of the Bandera underground would not take as long as you think now. They would have been overfished and bandaged just on the spot. Their neighbors.

          About sanctions.
          Russia has already received them in full, and there has never been any reason to find "partners". THEY ARE PLANNED SO.
          But in those conditions Russia would not have had a conflict on its borders, would not have severed the cooperative ties of its industry, would not have thwarted a mass of defense and economic programs.
          Food security ?
          Is it for Russia together with Ukraine?
          Russia has dealt with this problem alone, and together!
          And no bypass pipelines with American, Polish-Danish, Turkish and other intrigues ... would be required.
          How many billions have already been burned on these empty pipes?
          How many fines were paid?
          And do not count!
          And the Russian aviation industry would now shine with success, and not bashfully squeeze articles on import substitution sometime ... then ... when the crayfish whistle ...
          Remember Crimea in 2014
          This could have happened in ALL Ukraine.
          What sanctions would be terrible for such a country?
          When Clinton said that without Ukraine, Russia would never be able to become an Empire in its former strength and glory, she knew what she was talking about.
          And they have done and are doing everything to prevent the reunification of the wreckage of Genuine Russia.
          The lived 6,5 years prove the validity of their statements and plans. Russia has not restored the full range of competences in industry, and the "Ukrainian factor" put an end to the integration processes in the Eurasian space, where the initiative is confidently seized by China ...
          Russia is weakening.
          This is very inconvenient to admit, but unfortunately it is a fact.
          And this is seen by both enemies and potential allies.
          And respect, and trust it ... does not add.
          They now regard Russia as a "temporary geopolitical factor" ... And they do not see the future behind it.
          Russia missed its "Window of Opportunities".
          Quote: g1v2
          Look, we have planned the import substitution of Ukrainian names for the military-industrial complex until the age of 23, but if we were to cut off serious imports at all then? How many decades would it have been replaced, and for how many years would our industry be thrown back without imports?

          So you can see it ...
          But this might not have happened.
          Everything that is now inaccessible would be its own. Russia lacks Ukrainian enterprises, ports, market, transit ...
          And if we didn’t miss Ukraine then (even though we realized it at the Belarusian events, it’s okay), what reasons for sanctions would Europe have?
          Think about it yourself.
          Russia would become much stronger and more stable on the external circuit, stronger and more self-sufficient in the economy and more attractive for international unions and coalitions.
          People would be drawn to her ...
          And now ...
          ... "just a pitiful babble of excuses" from the government that missed its chance for integrity and greatness ...
          Alas ...
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 16: 21 New
            +4
            Quote: bayard
            Therefore, when we rose to fight ... they did not understand us, they did not expect this ...
            And they began to negotiate with the ENEMY.

            This is called the power of the comprador bourgeoisie.
            1. bayard
              bayard 26 October 2020 17: 30 New
              +3
              Alas. That is why and precisely then Russia missed its historic chance.
          2. g1v2
            g1v2 26 October 2020 18: 37 New
            +5
            Great post. And obviously about the painful. I will try to carefully insert my 5 cents. First of all. Yanukovych and the Party of Regions have never been pro-Russian. Just like the communist Voronin in Moldova. There were less than a dozen people behind all the parties and political forces in Ukrainian. They simply created their own political force for each electorate. The same people were behind the "pro-Russian" and pro-Western forces. They are still standing. request PM for the fact that the Maydauns overthrew and destroyed the Party of Regions, I personally am very grateful to them. Simply because they are the same enemies, but fooling the pro-Russian electorate with pro-Russian rhetoric. Weren't you surprised, for example, that Dobkin or Muraev were on our sanctions list? They just have the same owners as the Natsiks. It was the "pro-Russian eastern oligarchs" who crushed any sprouts of pro-Russian political forces. And here you propose to return Yanyk? And how to control it? Okay. Suppose we leave his son-dentist hostage in the Russian Federation or push a grenade into the anus and put a man with a rope tied to a check next to him. And then what? In 15, the vegetable was guaranteed to lose the election. Almost everyone hated him. So, what is next? Here rabbit Senya won the elections and what next? Withdraw troops? Or cancel the totals and introduce direct occupation? And to return Crimea or what? request
            I deeply do not care about the legitimacy of power in ukre. Ukraine has been an enemy since 92, and I don't care what kind of power is there. There are historical processes. which brought Ukraine to 14. This was clear back in the early 90s to the extreme left Limonov and the extreme right Zhirik and even the liberal Sobchak. They all talked about where Ukraine is going and where it will come. Nothing unexpected happened.
            Ukrainization took place under all the hetmans. It was just that the frog was cooked slowly, and therefore the silly Russian Ukrainians thought that everything was fine with them. Maidan simply radically accelerated this process and the frog suddenly realized what was being done to it. Jump out of the pan or not depends on it. If he tries, we will help. It will not be - it means that there is strength and truth behind the Banderlog, and they have the right to build what they see fit. In any case, an open enemy, in my opinion, is much better than a pretending one. request
            Yes, and I am pleased with what is happening now in Ukraine. This gives a chance that these lands will return to us sooner or later. At least the destruction of the Ukrainian statehood and economy does not slow down. For which thanks to all the maydauns and greenbots. hi
            And by the way, I also have a different opinion about our economy, but that's another topic. hi
            1. bayard
              bayard 26 October 2020 20: 10 New
              +3
              Yes, it’s not in Ukraine, and not even in the personality of Yanukovych at that time, and not in the number of subjects standing behind the politics of this territorial entity, but the fact that then, in the spring and summer of 2014, Russia had a chance to reunite its territories.
              And Russia was not ready for this.
              Therefore, Russia now does not have an aircraft industry (God forbid, to come to life), marine engine building and many of the above and not included in the list. And so instead of the profit of the population, the might of the army and the borders pushed to the west, there is an unstable aggressive Russophobic territory that brings problems and losses MUCH more than Russia would have costs for its return to a single state.
              Yanukovych was only a pretext, a symbol and a means for solving these issues. And I would gladly / willingly do whatever was necessary for this. And the population of the former Ukraine, after the coup, bedlam and the first (even then, a little) blood shed by criminals, in one breath would accept a new state of affairs, if only the mess would stop.
              Once again - in the Kremlin they listened to NOT THOSE "watching" and "monitors", singing that "Russia will not be accepted", "will be called an aggressor" ...
              People were waiting for the correct actions of Russia.
              The army of the former Ukraine was waiting for the correct actions of Russia, the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Security Service of Ukraine ... were also waiting for this. For them, Russia was their own, but Bandera - NO.
              But the Kremlin hastened to come to an agreement with those "less than a dozen" and disperse to "squeeze the Crimea" ... but Donbass flared up. It flashed earlier and wider, only the Donbass became the assembly point ...
              And what was beginning to gather there, they tried to immediately make out.
              And they took it apart.
              Quote: g1v2
              In 15, the vegetable was guaranteed to lose the election. Almost everyone hated him. So, what is next?

              This would be if it were not for the coup, but if he returned and put things in order, and at the same time brought Ukraine into the Eurasian Union, the military-political Union, got even with those "less than a dozen" who organized the coup (and the reason is such that return the death penalty) ... Yes, they would be lifted up on their hands for a second term and said: "If it went like this, then - for life. For I deserve it by the reunification of the One State."
              And even a grenade would not have to be inserted into the anus, although I liked the idea.
              And everything would be just ... great.
              Get out - Lukashenka!
              How hardened he is, Russophobe and self-styled, khataskraynik and double-dealing ... And as he burned out, he immediately "grew wiser" and became negotiable.
              It would be easier with Yanyk.
              And I would do everything for the joy of people.

              Why did not Solntseliky rejoice that karma descended on Luka?
              Didn't you quit as revealingly?
              Apparently something has already begun to reach ...
              But Yanyk in power had not yet matured ... did not grow together like Luke with the throne.
              What is going on in Belarus now can turn out to be worse ... Tell the Kremlin the same as you do now.
              what moment of truth has come for you?
              That "power" are puppets, and the puppeteers hold the threads of all parties?
              So it is in Russia exactly the same.
              And the "siloviks" on whom there was hope ... broke down.
              And they also want to ... "just agree."

              It won't work.

              If Russia wants to do something with Ukraine today, it will turn out worse, more difficult and more expensive in all respects.
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 26 October 2020 21: 06 New
                +1
                Sorry, but this is an illusion.
                About the aviation industry. Well, we can talk about the military aviation industry for a long time - we are now producing everything ourselves. There are still some areas such as engines for mi26, which are still under development, but we will solve it in the next 5-10 years. We are persistent people. There is a lot of work in civil aircraft construction, but the same surzhik is already in 4th place in terms of the number of passenger aircraft produced in the history of the Russian Federation and the USSR, and it is still being produced. I think that in 5 years will come out on the 2nd place. Mc21 did not depend on the Ukrainian aircraft industry at all, and this is the largest piece of the market. But I agree 50 billion to replace Ukrainian products, we spent and this money would not be superfluous. request
                About 14 years old. I am just writing that there was no window of opportunity then. In Ukraine, simplifying 30 percent of the pro-Western and pro-Russian electorate. And 40 percent are just ordinary people who want to live well. In 14, they were promised a European fairy tale, salaries of 5 thousand dollars and lace panties. It was they who painted the railings and trash bins in a chew-blakite color for the whole 14 year. It is clear that they were lied to, but it is impossible to fight a fairy tale with the truth. Could we promise them the same? No. And for any bun from us, they would be sure that the West would give more and only evil Muscovites took away this European dream from them. Paradise was already on the doorstep, and then the Muscovites ruined everything out of envy and meanness. Even the pro-Russian electorate would be against us in the event of the occupation of Ukraine. He also believed in a fairy tale. In that it is only necessary to defeat the evil Bandera and it will be possible to live independently of Russia, but at its expense. The majority did not want any unification. Remember the famous photo14 of the year "300 Cossacks", where the guys with the guards' ribbons are surrounded by the crowd throwing them? Do you know what is the main thing in this photo? That they are inside and not outside the ring. And this is a Russian city of the southeast. request The fact that in 14 year there was a window of opportunity is an illusion. request
                ON MY LOOK THE WINDOW WILL BE EARLY OR LATER. The main thing is that now these 40 percent of the khataskrains are looking around and do not see the burghers and American oil workers who are throwing at them bundles of dollars and euros. They did everything that was required of them, and instead of billions of dollars, freebies only rob them. belay Tariffs, deforestation, fraud with quotas, the death of industry and the reorientation of even cx to cheap crops are visible to everyone. Now there is the sale of land and the rewriting of the labor code in favor of employers. Even the pro-Western electorate is losing its illusions. In my opinion, the local elections are indicative. Almost everywhere the local owners of the regions won, while the all-Ukrainian projects are losing. That is, Ukraine is split into separate farms. In principle, Gena Korban, who crushed Dnipropetrovsk, spoke about this back in 14 year. Ukraine is turning into a country of individual farms. And such a country is much more difficult for the states to control or manage. And for us there is gradually an opportunity to talk with the local elites of each region separately. Separately from Kharkov or Odessa, separately from central types of Vinnytsia and so on. Ukraine is spreading, turning into a federation of regions that are loosely connected with each other. I doubt that someone in Ukraine will be able to stop this. request
                Luke is even easier. This is the first act of the series "whipping of private Lukashenko". Did not notice who initially helped the Maidan flare up? The Komsomol member was the banner of protests in the first days, along with the Polish next. Solovyov watered daddy no worse than zmagars. Until dad understood everything and rushed to call Uncle Vova. And then, after a couple of days, the rhetoric changed, and a landing of our specialists from the Republic of Tatarstan went to the Belarusian TV. request
                By the way, now there is a second series. "Spanking Private Pashinyan". Apparently he is still trying to play a multi-vector approach, but most likely, sooner or later, reality will knock him on the coupol too. Well, if not, then he is himself an evil Pinocchio. We will then huddle Aliyev. The son of a KGB general and a graduate of MGIMO is, in my opinion, more promising material. request
                1. bayard
                  bayard 26 October 2020 23: 51 New
                  +6
                  Quote: g1v2
                  About the aviation industry. Well, we can talk about the military aviation industry for a long time - we are now producing everything ourselves. There are still some areas such as engines for mi26, which are still in the process of development, but in the next 5-10 years we will solve. We are persistent people.

                  I should really ... probably even very disappoint you. Russia is simply a complete failure with the aviation industry.
                  Even the situation with the construction of combat fighters is not as rosy as "Military Acceptance" thunders with fanfare. Especially with the Su-57. It will be a long song. And it's not about the engines at all - it would be quite good on the first stage engines. Airborne radar, avionics, software ... The coefficient of novelty is too high ... so even after being adopted by its sores, it did not seem to overshadow the ever-memorable F-35.
                  But still 4 + \ ++ brings the picture to life.
                  But only they.
                  Where are the AWACS planes?
                  I'm not even talking about the unfortunate A-100, which is no longer mentioned.
                  Where are the modernized A-50Us?
                  How many of the 12 (!!!) years of the modernization project's existence have you managed to modernize?
                  5!
                  Well, with a head, maybe 6.
                  All . request
                  Of the twenty available still Soviet construction, this flawed modernization (with a rise in characteristics by 25%) was never pulled out.
                  Why
                  Sabotage.
                  There is no other reasonable cause in nature.
                  But this plane is critically important for the country's defense.
                  IL-76MD90A.
                  The series was never launched. There are wretched picking and an indistinct whisper of excuses. And the plane is critically needed.
                  Remotorization of An-124 was disrupted.
                  Almost all An-12s have been decommissioned, there is no replacement of the medium transporter EVEN IN THE ROC! Au Il-276 and Tu-330 ...
                  The launch program for the Il-112 and Il-114 series was successfully disrupted. And not only because of the sloppiness and curvature of designers and production workers ... for them it is corny that there are no normal engines. Those that exist are abnormal, cheese and are not suitable for installation. They are put on, but they refuse even on takeoff.
                  Il-96-400 - two fuselages are still being assembled in Voronezh ... Slowly, hesitantly, reports from the assembly site have practically stopped - there is nothing to boast about either.
                  Tu-214 for specialized reconnaissance aircraft and other special needs ... Also weak, slowly ...
                  L-410 - they bought the plant, licenses from the Czechs, took out and assembled equipment at their place and ... not a single aircraft was assembled. NO ENGINES! The same ones are expected to go to the Ka-62.
                  "SS-100" - 70% imported aircraft, almost screwdriver assembly at its facilities. Monstrous problems with maintenance and logistics of delivering spare parts to operators. Therefore, more and more companies refuse to operate it. They dream of import substitution, but hopes for resolving these issues even in the next 10 years are extremely illusory.
                  The MS-21 is a potentially good aircraft, but ... up to 50% of the components are imported. Even our own carbon (a wing made of it has not even been tested at the stands, and is there in nature ...) and resins, our PD-14 engine will not solve the problem - the suppliers of all other components LOUDLY REFUSED us.
                  Next in turn is the refusal of suppliers of the radio-electronic component base ...
                  Serial production has been disrupted for a LONG time.
                  Move on .
                  Tu-160 is a strategic bomber, the decision to resume production of which was made in the spring of 2015.
                  And ?!
                  The issue of welding the titanium center section has not yet been resolved.
                  DOES NOT WORK .
                  Have forgotten how.
                  There are also serious problems with the NK-32M engines, but they seem to be brought to mind.
                  Repair and modernization of the Tu-22M3 is also not easy and at the wrong pace, as is necessary for defense capability.
                  You said yourself about the engines for the Mi-26. But there are no engines for the Be-200 either. Those three sets for the Mi-26 and for three for the Be-200, which were secretly delivered from Zaporozhye at the beginning of the year, caused a huge scandal in the formerly fraternal country. It will hardly be possible to repeat it now.
                  What else ?
                  The Ka-62 is still without engines.
                  But the funny thing is that due to the lack of engines it is not possible to resume construction or simply remotorize the An-2 !!!
                  We can't even build this plane!
                  1. g1v2
                    g1v2 27 October 2020 12: 33 New
                    +1
                    This is not a failure, but a working moment. You have not surprised me with anything. You yourself have listed how much is done at the same time. Each of these tasks requires resources, time and people, and they are all solved simultaneously. But they do. Slowly but surely, like the loading bar on the screen, but moving. I will not argue about the superjet, although in my opinion it was he who returned us to the number of civil aviation manufacturers. Of these 65 percent of supposedly imports, 34-38 are engines. Which are generally joint. To be honest, consider them half imported. But it is not important. PD7, aka PD 8 is being developed in any case. It will work for the be200. In 5-6 years there will be a new superjet. From the list of work on import substitution, it is already clear that it will consist of at least 80 percent of our systems. Although for me the aircraft designed by Russian designers of the Russian design bureau, built by Russian workers, is already quite Russian at the Russian plant of the Russian corporation, but this is not the same dispute. request
                    Su30SM, SU35, SU34 are built in large batches, with su30 and su35 being exported. The fact that su57 is not yet produced by such batches is also understandable. I am an engineer and I don't need to explain. that a small batch is one thing, and the deployment of a serial production is quite another. But again, if not for the accident, then the delivery of the first serial SU57 would have begun already last year. Accordingly, the accident seriously shifted the schedule. But the contract has been signed and will be implemented. There is no doubt about that. request
                    Work on a100 is still going on. About a50, but how many of them do you need now? This is not a top priority.
                    IL-76MD90A. Work was underway to install and fine-tune the automatic assembly line. Plus, negotiations were underway to recalculate the contract. It was concluded even before the crises and did not stupidly fight for new money. Now it has been re-connected. As far as I remember, the first silts have already gone along it.
                    Remotorization of Ruslans is by no means a priority task now. How many of them are involved then? A significant part is idle.
                    IL276 is not in the first place in the list of priorities either. Silt has a lot of projects going on at the same time. IL 276 is studied on a leftover basis.
                    Il 114 is being finished. Again, the automatic assembly line is deployed. Further, there will be a long certification and testing, including certification according to European standards. I personally do not know how to speed up this process. request
                    About IL112 long-known story with the relief of the plane. Although in my opinion this is wrong, but it is necessary to modernize TV7-117ST. But the Klimovites say that they squeezed out of them everything they could, most likely they will have to ease further. And by the way, my IMHO. that if the residents of Ilyushin were engaged in more business, and did not drain Rogozin, the younger, then the work would have been more cheerful. But in any case, the plane will go into production. There is already an order for it.
                    IL 96-400, in my opinion, is simply not needed. I don’t know who, except government agencies, will buy it. request In my opinion, it is better to speed up work on a joint plane with the Chinese, and then import substitution of the Chinese part.
                    The MC21 is being imported simultaneously with the Superjet. There will be unification in terms of systems. Of course, the deadline was disrupted, but there is one but. We have a market for this aircraft - the capacity is approximately 450-500 aircraft. Plus the military. There is a sales market, and this is the main thing for a passenger aircraft. The composites were replaced. There, the problem was that the strength of our composite is less than that of the foreign one, but due to the hairiness it adheres better. In any case, all this must be certified and tested. A couple of three years are still needed, but there are already starting customers. request
                    The deployment of the Tu160m2 project was initially a mega-difficult task. This is the crown of the aviation technologies of the union, which the whole country plowed for. As far as I remember, the titanium center section welding technology has already been restored. But there is a lot of work without him. It just won't be, but we'll finish it in 6-7 years.
                    On mi26 will go pd12v. Until the deployment of the Prospect Island 14 is completed, work on it will be secondary. They are unlikely to pass before the age of 25. I think that pd7 for superjet and be200 will be earlier - by 23-24 year.
                    The biggest problem is actually with engines for small aircraft. But again, work is underway. Plus, the Klimovites are sawing engines for helicopters.
                    In general, think for yourself how much you have listed and in how many areas are being carried out at the same time. The scale is enormous. But for each of these projects you need money (a lot), specialists, a place to work and huge work on the deployment of a serial production. Gradually, one by one, the work will come to the finish line. And each such project will free up people and resources for others. request
                  2. bayard
                    bayard 27 October 2020 16: 24 New
                    +2
                    Quote: g1v2
                    in 6-7 years we will finish.

                    Are you sure that Russia has these 6-7 years?
                    And what will happen in these 6 - 7 years? Will the first image take off? Will his trials begin?
                    And second ?
                    How much per year?
                    The USSR got no more than 5 pieces. in year .
                    And it's the same with everything else. In civil aviation, we were denied the supply of components, instruments and equipment, and at the next stage, a complete refusal was announced in the radio component base - ALL SPECTRA.
                    But there is no one of our own.
                    Nothing.
                    Everything that was was rotted away, dismantled and sold.
                    Complete liquidation.
                    Will we be able to do everything from scratch and in 3 years?
                    How much can we take?
                    For 10?
                    With the modern level of education, surely we can?
                    Responsible and irresponsible persons have done EVERYTHING to prevent the Russian aviation industry from reviving on its own production base. The launch of the MC-21 series was disrupted for ... a very long time. We do not produce anything of the necessary and have not even tried for the last 20 - 25 years, and even the vaunted PD-14 engines are known to the public only by their name. The first board with such may (!) Will be assembled this year and will take off for the first time before the new year ... But this will only begin testing the engines on the prototype airframe.
                    No more .
                    All the loud statements with fanfare turned out to be pure PR. request
                    Now go back to my first posts and re-read carefully - all these problems simply would not exist if the Russian leadership had solved the Ukrainian issue in 2014.
                    All of the above aircraft would have been serially built for a long time, there would be no shortage of aircraft engines, their range and quality would completely cover the needs of the aviation industry. And instead of clumsy attempts with the Il-112 and Il-114, their more successful counterparts, the Antonov Design Bureau, would have long been built in Russia, which were contracted and licenses were purchased before the start of the tragic events.
                    The Malaysian Boeing would not have been shot down by the villains, there would be no reason for sanctions in Europe, there would be no problems with transit gas pumping there and the need for bypass pipelines, warships would be built and saturate the Fleet, new icebreakers would already plow the Arctic, and a Russian-Ukrainian grain consortium would be a monopoly on the world market. Russia would not have lost many hundreds of billions of dollars over these 6,5 years ... So much blood would not have been shed, integration processes in the Eurasian space would not have been disrupted.
                    Russia would not be considered a weak, patient country ...
                    And now they do.
                    Just look at how many projects the UAC is simultaneously pulling ...
                    And - it does not cope.
                    With almost nothing!
                    Because he chased not even two hares, but a whole flock of them!
                    After so many years of inactivity and timelessness!
                    Having lost qualified engineering personnel and personnel of qualified lower-level specialists!
                    And did not bring up new ones ...
                    Russia is simply torn apart by a multitude of projects that are not backed up by human and technical resources. And industry science also sagged a lot. Maybe she could have pulled two or three projects ... but there are many more than a dozen projects !!! For which just NOTHING is enough.
                    And once again the question - "does Russia have these 10 years to restore the competencies, capacities and personnel that were lost before?" ...
                    And you yourself will understand that no one will give us this time.

                    Have you doubted the urgent, extreme (!!!) necessity for the Air Force / Aerospace Forces of AWACS aircraft ?!
                    This is due to ignorance of the specifics of modern wars and combat control of aviation operations. Without such aircraft, a war with a more or less serious rival is impossible in principle, the war in the air will be lost - aviation will be left without combat control of air operations, there will be nothing to detect cruise missiles flying along a low-altitude profile. This is what I am telling you as an officer of the combat directorate of an air defense formation (in the past). Disruption of the A-50 modernization program to the A-50U level, disruption of the launch program for the A-100 series ... made our aviation blind and ineffective.
                    Combat fighter aircraft.
                    And aviation in general.
                    Failure of these programs is not just diversion and sabotage ... It is much worse.
                    How many such planes do you need?
                    According to the plans, 50 pieces are needed. such aircraft. That is how much A-100 was planned in the MO order. But even if we just modernized those 20 pieces. A-50 that we got from the Union (and there was such an order for modernization too) the problem would not be so acute. But in 12 years since 2008, they have been modernized ONLY (!!!) 6 pcs. , including the head one, which was presented to the commission and adopted by it in 2008.
                    It is IMPOSSIBLE not to understand the importance of these aircraft for the country's defense capability by the leading personnel of the Defense Ministry and the state.
                    This means that the authorities simply don’t need this (DEFENSE). Otherwise, we would see a completely different picture.
                    And if you carefully analyze the other programs and the nature of their disruptions, it becomes obvious that all the fanfare about "getting up from your knees" is nothing more than PR for the plebs. In reality there are completely different games.
                    Do you think this is paranoia?
                    Believe me, if someone said that the authorities of the USSR were preparing the surrender of the Union and the entire Socialist camp to the West into slavery ... he would simply be considered insane.
                    But the Union was handed over!
                    And it is the leadership.
                    By entering into a criminal conspiracy.
                    ... But of course you can't even think of this about the modern leadership of the Russian Federation ...
                  3. g1v2
                    g1v2 27 October 2020 17: 38 New
                    0
                    Pancake. How many emotions. Calmer. Our own is being developed and there is a lot, which is not - we will do it. Work is underway in all directions. There is time. Nothing will happen tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Education supplies fit youth. Here the average level is not enough, because Soviet education died along with the country and in the 90s with zero there was a serious failure. So young people will have to learn a lot from the older generation in the process. But the same superjet was developed by a quite young team. Moreover, with the introduction of digital design and modeling, a computer began to consider a lot for a designer, and it became easier for designers to work. The main thing for growth is to have orders. Learn. Young people have much better conditions than they had in the 30s. I'm not talking about the production base. Then they coped and now they are coping. I repeat - all these are working moments, not reasons for hysteria. angry
                    About disruption of ALL foreign deliveries. To begin with, this is not the case. The same prat and whitney still supply engines and struggle to supply them for il114. I think that il114 will go for export with them. Much is localized in our l410 turbojet type. There, the Urals simply bought the entire company and transferred the production to the Russian Federation. Gradually, we will replace everything that is needed. Again, these are difficulties, but no more. request
                    The Antonov Design Bureau is the design bureau of a hostile country. The only option that made it possible to avoid replacing it was the forcible seizure of a sovereign country. I already wrote that this is not a real option. In any case, it would be necessary to substitute import substitution. request
                    Drlo aircraft are of course needed. Nobody canceled plans for purchases of a100. But the priority of the a50 modernization program with a relatively small increase in characteristics is not very great. There is no such thing as hair back and throwing all the strength into their modernization. Moreover, ground-based radar complexes are being built and produced. The same Container, for example. Voronezh again. request
                    About delivery. Yes, if suddenly our modern hands wanted to surrender, then he simply did not have to do anything. We were drowning, accelerating every day. To make it clear, by 95, 54 percent of the industry of the RSFSR had died. Half of the rest died in the next 5 years. We came out of this shit, which is just scary. All our current problems, compared to where we were pulled from, are a pimple on the ass of a person who has been cured of end-stage cancer. It hurts, offensive, sometimes even humiliating, but not life threatening. request I repeat, watch the video "St. Petersburg. It was, now."
                    Yes, there are a lot of projects, and all at the same time there is not enough people, resources and production base. But the rearmament of the army is going on actively. Even here, news constantly appears. Some projects such as Vanguards, frigates 22350, calibers are already in service and are arriving. Some types of su 57, orions or c350s are just starting to ship. Some types of zircons or with 500 in the last stages of testing. The industry continues to grow. As the head coach said in one of the videos, 75 percent of industrial products are produced on modern equipment.
                    I will repeat myself. There are many works and many problems and new ones will constantly appear, but nothing insurmountable is visible in the foreseeable future. You just need systematic work year after year. And she goes.
                    Well, what about suffered. These are complexes. South Ossetia 2008, Crimea 2014, Syria, Libya. I read a lot of foreign press. Nobody considers us to be a torpor - neither the West, nor the Chinese. And before they did. On the contrary, they are considered aggressive and relatively inadequate. But at the same time, many consider it an example in terms of ideology. There are enough supporters there too.
                    Well, again, you should never buy on the weak. You need to do exactly what you need, and not what you are being pushed to. request
                    Okay. The argument is interesting, but I'm on the night shift. Money is not earned by itself. hi
            2. bayard
              bayard 27 October 2020 00: 43 New
              +4
              Now about what happened in Ukraine in 2014, you still were not there. And I lived, worked, did business and communicated a lot. And the alignment of forces and attitudes was not at all the same as Solovyov and Co. proclaimed.
              You mentioned 300 Cossacks. And they decided that they were all the active people of the city. This is not true . These people gathered at that place every day to demonstrate their position, and there were many more. But it was on that day that many did not come (work, family affairs, etc.), but Banderas brought militants and football fans from all over Ukraine. They also came to Odessa in this crowd ... So they created a local advantage in strength in one specific place and suppressed resistance one by one. If you look at the alignment of local forces in all the cities of the South-East and the Center, then the Maidanites everywhere were in the overwhelming minority and went out only for money - that was their job.
              And they were beaten.
              In Odessa - more than once and in large quantities.
              In Kharkov more than once and MASSOVO. Under the cameras.
              And so in many other cities.
              Rallies for unity with Russia gathered many times more supporters. And people didn't come for money. And in order to prevent a break with Russia and NATO membership.
              It is not clear what his delegates reported to the Kremlin, but they reported an outright LIE, and after that many were punished for this (this information reached us).
              But these "Kremlin informants" did their job - the Kremlin kept silent and wiped off.
              My friends took an active part in the Crimean events, and hoped for a similar scenario in the future. Russian intervention then inspired many ...
              But the Crimea was enough for the Kremlin.
              "We do not abandon our own" - meant some other of ours ... and apparently not at all Russian.
              And those "300 Cossacks" left for Donbass the next day and joined the militia. Many of them have already died.
              And you have seriously confused the interest with the supporters of the opponents of Russia. For the EU and NATO, there were no more than 25%, together with plankton (lace panties), and this has been repeatedly shown by polls. Of these, 3 - 5% are active.
              On our side, there were much more active people - at times. But the enemy was better organized, paid for and acted according to a plan drawn up and worked out long ago. Organizationally, we were losing.
              Because the West from the late 80s - early 90s through its NGOs and other structures forged and put into power its cadres. Massively, without hesitation.
              Russia WAS INACTIVE and did not provide ANY assistance to pro-Russian organizations, associations and unions. Even purely organizational. She did not have a clear connection with them, did not form her own lobby and did not educate her own personnel in the power of Ukraine.
              And she constantly negotiated with American assets in Ukraine.
              That which was suppressed and poisoned with such zeal by both the Ukrainian and Russian authorities did not have the resources to lead the broad masses ... And the masses rushed about in search of leaders.
              And they found.
              And they found it.
              But it really turned out to defend their rights only in the Donbass.
              We forbade our comrades to raise uprisings in the rear, during the battles of 2014 and 2015. , for we would have suppressed them extremely cruelly, and we would not have been able to help them ... And people gritting their teeth endured and waited.
              They were waiting for Russia to rise on the opposite side.
              I have already said that no special efforts would have been required in 2014. All the activists of the Maidan and their patrons would have been caught locally - they were well known to everyone. The Ministry of Internal Affairs and honest employees of the SBU would take up their direct responsibilities in the fight against terrorism. They were ready for this and also waited.
              I know this for sure from personal communication.
              But Russia has shown weakness.
              And shortsightedness.
              And the weak are beaten.
              Before Solntselikiy liked to talk about this ...
              So they began to beat Russia, which had shown its weakness. Brazenly, frankly, cynically, with the utmost humiliation.
              The humiliation of the Olympics alone was worth what ...
              And sanctions.
              And the collapse of the ruble.
              And the collapse of the economy.
              This has been very serious since the beginning of 2015. And painful.
              But if shame was chosen between the war (which could not have happened - not with Ukraine) and shame ... Then it was chosen voluntarily. There will be shame and war.
              If we now add up all the losses of Russia over the years from the wrong choice ... ALL THE LOSSES ... IN MONEY ... these will be such astronomical figures that the withdrawal of capital by oligarchs will seem like a childish prank against a bank robbery.
              And what numbers are still ahead ...
              If in Russia capitalism and everything comes only through money ...
              And the flogging of Lukashenka and the flogging of Pashinyan ... when the situation is running SO deep ... the flogging may not help.
              Russia does not have a clear development goal, no firm goal-setting. This is a vectorless movement ... with the rejection of its own ideology. And a society without an idea ... a bright idea understandable to everyone ... cannot survive.

              I am writing this not so much to you, namesake, as to those who have not yet decided whether he has an ideology, or he is a herd of cattle, which is sheared and slaughtered for the holidays.
              The shepherds are cutting.
              One ram was afraid of a wolf all its short life, and a shepherd ate it.
              The society of people should not be a herd.
              But this should be a completely different society.
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 27 October 2020 13: 19 New
                +1
                Again, this is an illusion. The problem of the modern world is that people in it are divided into groups of like-minded people. Therefore, it seems that as you think everyone around. And then it turns out that this is far from the case. I had a lot of friends in Ukraine. I regularly watched Ukrainian channels. In 15, I taught about 30 trainees from Kiev in St. Petersburg. Plus, several of my subordinates came from Donbass. Pm the mentality of a significant part of the population of Ukraine, I imagine I think even better than you. Just because I look at the whole picture from the outside, and you are surrounded by like-minded people, it seems that everyone is like you. But you certainly did not have any superiority in quantity. You just thought so. Anyway. request
                Soloviev is a craftsman. This is a serious pro. However, he broadcasts what he is paid for. Kolomoisky once said. that he could be on his channel. And then Soloviev would have smashed the Kremlin's hand and so on. This is his job. request About the Kremlin's awareness. There is the SVR, the FSB and many other sources of information. I don’t think I or you have more information. AND THERE IS NOT THE WHOLE PICTURE IN GENERAL. request
                Bandera do not start up by themselves. There is money behind them. The same right sector worked for the same Kolomoisky throughout 14 and 15 years. Well, overfished the Natsik and what? They are not of any interest. request I will repeat myself. The problem is not the Nazis and Bandera, but the very state of Ukraine and its elite. Ukrainian elites use Natsiks as street infantry - no more. There is no difference between the type of pro-Russian and the type of pro-Western Ukrainian politicians. The most pro-Russian politician at the time of the Maidan was Poroshenko. He has the same ambassador Zurabov, his best friend, and they were doing a joint business. Well, how does Petya's piglet position itself now?
                Again, Russia did not have any digestible options. No window of opportunity, no resources, no financial independence, no power on which to rely on in Ukraine. Excuse me - not power in any way. request
                Donbass rose due to the mistake of the local oligarchic clan. The same LPR was created by Efremov. Bolotov was his man. My subordinate came to enroll in the LPR militia, but when he saw who was gathering him and who would be his commander in Krasnodon, he turned around, gathered his family and left. The Vostok battalion in the DPR was created by the man of Akhmetov Khodakovsky. And then it was they who guarded Akhmetov's property on the territory of the DPR, and Azov guarded his property in Mariupol. When Benya went to squeeze out his property, Donetsk and Luhansk oligarchs began to raise people up. But hardly anyone voluntarily went to protect their property, so the campaign was carried out under pro-Russian slogans. And then the Donetsk oligarchs caused a wave. which they could not control. Then came the Russian type of patriotic opposition in the person of the same Strelkov, Kurginyanovites, Limonovites, etc., and it started. The Kremlin doesn't act like that. He prepares his operations for a long time. The same return of the Crimea, by the fact that I can judge, was being prepared since 10 years. Therefore, it passed without a hitch. But when, someone is engaged in amateur performances, it turns out to be a mess.
                Well, about the beat and so on. Me that way. which is Russia and its economy suits. To understand a little, watch a fresh video on the Internet "St. Petersburg. It was-now". Then you will understand a little. I lived in that St. Petersburg and I can clearly see the difference.
                About weakness. Fools are always poorly caught. Personally, I did not buy poorly even as a child. So far, we are actively promoting our interests. If you read the foreign press, then it is just the opposite opinion. Politicians and the media in the West are yelling that Russia is advancing, and their governments cannot do anything. As for sports, of course, it is humiliating and insulting, but since they go down to this, then more effective measures are coming to an end. Why Trump's advisor said last week that they had already introduced everything they could. In fact, the threat of sanctions is much more dangerous than themselves. But they didn't get it.
                About finance. Russia now has perhaps the best financial position in history. Gold reserves significantly exceed external debt. The standard of living has dipped compared to 13, but in any case, people did not live better than with GDP in Russia. Union I remember, so how cool it was then do not tell. THIS SPEAKING SOFTLY WAS NOT SO.
                In any case, you listed the ongoing work in the previous post only on aviation. Well, now in most industries there is a similar movement. And she will give her result. Already gives. For 15 years, as well as for the Maidan, many thanks to the states. They cleared the brains of many. request
                Pancake . I ran the page again. I will add. The company where I work during the reign of VVP in St. Petersburg and the Leningrad region has built 3 factories. The company is Russian. Around the same new production. Clear. that Peter and the same Tuva is a big difference, but sooner or later it will reach there too. You just have to go to the goal. and not rush and beat in hysterics. hi
              2. Dante Alighieri
                Dante Alighieri 28 October 2020 09: 55 New
                0
                ... There is the SVR, the FSB and many other sources of information. I don’t think I or you have more information. AND THERE IS NOT THE WHOLE PICTURE IN GENERAL.

                In the modern world, it is not difficult for an ordinary person to have knowledge no less than the "profile" structures indicated by you, it is enough to have eyes, ears and be able to use them. It is not for nothing that the Book of Books says: “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock, and it will be opened for you; for everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. " And under the lying stone and water does not flow.

                The Kremlin doesn't act like that. He prepares his operations for a long time. The same return of Crimea, by the fact that I can judge, was prepared from 10 years ago. Therefore, it passed without a hitch.

                Well, if, in your opinion, this is a flawless operation, then I really get scared. No, tactically and organizationally, everything was executed correctly, which, in fact, in the presence of a functioning and full-fledged military base is not so difficult, but strategically it was a complete failure. Crimea, as Boyard already explained to you, it was advisable to return either together with the whole of Ukraine, or at least with its eastern part, otherwise it is just a temporary solution, which in the long term will bring many more negative consequences, both economic and political. plan.

                you are surrounded by like-minded people, it seems that everyone is like you. But you certainly did not have any superiority in quantity.

                So Bandera also did not have a numerical superiority. I will tell you a big secret: most people are generally passive by nature and a priori will submit to any decision that a small but active minority may come up with. We could observe this in Petrograd in 1917, in Belovezhskaya Pushcha in 1990, in Kiev in 2014, and many other places. Therefore, no matter how many of you there will be - the main thing is how motivated you will be, and the latter among the pro-Russian public in Ukraine was no less than the fascist Westerners.

                Politicians and the media in the West are yelling that Russia is advancing, and their governments cannot do anything.

                Although not a religious person, he is again forced to turn to the Bible, yet there are many wise words and sayings. For example: "By their fruits (works) you will recognize them." Yet the words, albeit spoken in public, are completely different from real actions. Do you really think that if everything that happens would not suit the West, they would not be able to pull off anything similar to the Crimean campaign of 1853-1855? Just please, don't remind me about nuclear weapons now. At that time, Crimea was still legally Ukrainian territory, which means that nothing prevented the collective West from organizing a military operation to prevent its migration towards Russia without an immediate threat to the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation, which is the only possible reason for Moscow to use nuclear weapons. Moreover, for the sake of such a worthy mission, the overwhelming majority of NATO member states would have been involved in this process, including Turkey, which is directly interested in weakening Russia in the Black Sea region and formally friendly to us. But that did not happen. This means that the West was completely satisfied with the scenario that your beloved bunker grandfather realized. Just like how you are satisfied with the Russian economy and the way the country is going. So the reports of politicians in Europe and the United States about their fictitious impotence are nothing more than a terrible tale for an internal consumer, not heavily burdened with unnecessary knowledge. If they wanted, they would have done it, and we would have washed ourselves with blood and retreated to our former borders, just as it was in 1856 following the results of the Paris Peace.

                Russia now has perhaps the best financial position in history. Gold reserves significantly exceed external debt.

                Only the majority of what amounts Gref and Kudrin have in their pots are neither cold nor hot. At the same time, let me remind you that these figures themselves have long and frankly stated that there is no money from the people, but there is a budget, to which the people have nothing to do.

                The standard of living has dipped compared to 13, but in any case, people did not live better than with GDP in Russia.

                And in 13, you might think everyone was swimming in chocolate. Some may have swam, but obviously not all. In the regions, as people survived, and survive, and the situation from year to year only gets worse. More or less, only the capitals live, having direct access to thereby not people's, but budgetary funds. So people really did not live better than with GDP. There is only a small clarification - some people. About 10 percent. The overwhelming majority also knew the brighter periods, which clearly shows the birth rate, especially in the context of the "indigenous", "titular" nation.

                I agree on one thing - the Ukrainian politicians are blood from the blood of the brothers of Russian politicians - no better and no worse. And their personal interests for them are higher than the interests of some kind of society and state, no matter how the latter is called: Ukraine or Russia.
              3. g1v2
                g1v2 29 October 2020 20: 48 New
                +2
                To use little - you need to be able to handle information and structure it. Plus, as a rule, in the shaft of information on the internet, a really interesting one is stupidly lost. Services primarily know how to handle information.
                It’s not scary, but the Crimean operation was made with a plus. In all senses, and primarily in the legal sense. Therefore, the issue of Crimea is not raised at any negotiations. The same Merkel has said about this more than once that this issue is not being discussed. It is clear that they do not recognize, but this is a matter of purely relations. The Baltic states were also not recognized, but this did not bother anyone.
                Bandera and Natsiks do not need numerical superiority. Behind them are quite a Russian-speaking Ukrainian elite who support them. The same right sector worked for Benya all 14 and 15 years and squeezed enterprises for him. Azov generally worked for everyone. Freedom turned out to be less entrepreneurial, therefore, outside Galicia and is extremely weak.
                Could not. Stupid because the west is weakening. He has no previous resources. Industry and money are flowing into southeast asia. Various yellow vests, social cuts, degradation of armies are a consequence of this. And Russia, thanks to the bunker grandfather, is constantly strengthening. Again, the main enemy for the West now is China. And many in the West just consider the conflict with the Russian Federation a mistake, because it pushes us into an alliance with China. request
                Damn, you are so small. You have a red rag in the shape of Gref and Kudrin there, and you are praying for it. Will they remove them and what, will something change for you? And Gref, by the way, runs a very good Savings Bank. Just before our eyes, various methods of non-cash payments have been introduced, most people in the country have Sberbank cards. Plus savings are constantly evolving. I don't like Gref, but he is quite in his place. According to Kudrin, he is not interesting to me at all. A figure inflated artificially by various internet fighters. request
                Most people care about this. Primarily because, due to the fact that the state has a lot of money, it can at least keep taxes low. Otherwise it would have introduced at least 23-25 ​​percent as in France. Secondly, for this money there are permanent construction projects throughout the country. I will repeat myself. Watch the video "St. Petersburg. It was and now" and stupid questions where the state money goes will stop tormenting you. I have lived here for decades and all this happened before my eyes.
                In 13, it was precisely that the whole country was wasting money as if not into itself. Especially large cities. At the same time, without even paying attention to it. Now they have finally started to handle money more carefully. It is clear that apart from large cities there is also Tuva and Ingushetia, where there is serious unemployment, or Karelia with the Pskov region. Well, such a huge country is never the same. Here, much depends on the local authorities and their ability to lobby the interests of the region and attract business. Especially large.
                Ukrainian politicians are just puppets of Ukrainian oligarchs. Less than 10 people - this is Ukraine. Nazis, communists, pro-Western and pro-Eastern politicians - they all work for these people. It's just that for each piece of the electorate its own political forces have been created.
  • unknown
    unknown 26 October 2020 14: 38 New
    -3
    According to the most literate astrologer today, who does not consider himself an astrologer, Ukraine will return to Russia in 2029.
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 15: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: ignoto
      According to the most literate astrologer today, who does not consider himself an astrologer, Ukraine will return to Russia in 2029.

      You better spread it out on the cards, or tell fortunes on coffee.
  • Grits
    Grits 27 October 2020 05: 53 New
    +4
    Quote: bayard
    There was a chance to fix everything ...

    To do this, all of it had to be - not to stop the Donbass militia, not to slow down the Russian Spring and throw "firewood" to Kharkov, Odessa and Zaporozhye with Kherson. It would be much cheaper and more efficient. And for many years to come.
    1. bayard
      bayard 27 October 2020 16: 41 New
      +3
      Quite right. But the Kremlin decided to come to an agreement with the enemy ...
      With the ensuing consequences.
  • D16
    D16 26 October 2020 19: 19 New
    -1
    Well, the Chinese conveyor will feed for sure. So far, each QC-280 is based on a Zorevsky kit. Yes, only individual sites are loaded, not a full cycle, but still, volumes for hundreds of turbines.

    At Zora they probably don't know where to put Chinese money laughing ... I have already given you links to the fact that China has a full cycle of production of ship turbines. A long time ago they bought 10 sets. Since then, if they bought anything, then on little things. Now localization is over 95 percent. And it's not a fact that the remaining 5% goes to Ukraine. So only the second pair of Indian 11356.
  • smart ass
    smart ass 26 October 2020 11: 15 New
    -5
    There will be no screaming, they have developed anals)
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 26 October 2020 11: 20 New
    +8
    Quote: seti
    And now the desperate cry of the proto-criminals anal pain is heard even in Washington

    Washington needed to remove Ukraine from the shipbuilding line. Now Ukraine has completely disappeared from the lists of shipbuilders.
    1. Rubi0
      Rubi0 26 October 2020 11: 34 New
      0
      Which is good news))), ideally, along the perimeter of the Russian Federation there should be states at the level of Mexico, cheap slave power and cheap hotels in the Caribbean
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 12: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: Rubi0
        Which is good news))), ideally, along the perimeter of the Russian Federation there should be states at the level of Mexico, cheap slave power and cheap hotels in the Caribbean

        Do you have any relatives in the near abroad? Or do you wish them such a fate?
        1. Rubi0
          Rubi0 26 October 2020 14: 05 New
          0
          What kind? Do you need high-tech production facilities on the territory of neighboring unfriendly countries? Yes, in fact, they themselves do not need it. Nikolaev, or rather Mikolaev, is officially a tourist city on the wave, and not this is your city of shipbuilders and machine builders with ChSZ and Zarya Mashproekt. Shipyards and their pre-construction embankments are perfectly converted for grain handling, and their former recreation centers in Koblevo for hotels and cottages, I advise Vital Park and Valen Park in July, September, in August there are too many jellyfish.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 14: 14 New
            +3
            Quote: Rubi0
            on the territory of neighboring unfriendly countries?

            Whose "wise" foreign policy made these countries unfriendly?
            Quote: Rubi0
            Nikolaev, or rather Mikolaev, is officially a tourist city on the wave, and not this is your city of shipbuilders and machine builders with ChSZ and Zarya Mashproekt. Shipbuilding yards and their pre-construction embankments are perfectly converted for grain handling, and their former recreation centers in Koblevo for hotels and cottages

            Somewhere to a greater extent, somewhere to a lesser extent, the same is happening in our country. And not only in shipbuilding. Closed and plundered former Soviet enterprises in the Russian Federation, the same carriage and a small cart, and their restoration does not smell.
            1. Rubi0
              Rubi0 26 October 2020 14: 51 New
              -3
              Even I lost the thread in what you want to convey, especially in terms of why you want to support high-tech production in neighboring countries when not everything is going smoothly in the Russian Federation and it is necessary to destroy competitors in the market
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 15: 03 New
                +2
                Quote: Rubi0
                Even I lost the thread in what you want to convey, especially in terms of why you want to support high-tech production in neighboring countries when not everything is going smoothly in the Russian Federation and it is necessary to destroy competitors in the market

                Today it is called "lack of conceptual thinking", earlier it was called the inability to build cause-and-effect relationships. Read more, better classical literature.
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 26 October 2020 23: 51 New
                  +1
                  Alexey hi, You expect the impossible from some.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 27 October 2020 00: 36 New
                    +2
                    hi
                    Quote: lexus
                    You expect the impossible from some.

                    Something a bit too much here such "some" have become. I can’t understand what is more important, the optimization of education or the optimization of psychiatric institutions.
                  2. Lexus
                    Lexus 27 October 2020 00: 38 New
                    +2
                    The high cost of abortion.
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 26 October 2020 12: 42 New
      +5
      Mexico is a fairly developed state.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 26 October 2020 14: 18 New
        +2
        Quote: Sergej1972
        Mexico is a fairly developed state.

        Well, yes, well, yes, we will soon overtake it and shout it louder. The USSR was a developed state, that's what we should strive for.
  • denis obuckov
    denis obuckov 26 October 2020 12: 41 New
    +5
    and the Ukrainian brothers never returned the advance payment for the engines for the destroyer frigates?
  • Nemchinov Vl
    Nemchinov Vl 26 October 2020 19: 33 New
    +3
    Quote: seti
    Yeah. And now the desperate cry of the proto-criminals anal pain is heard even in Washington
    Very good news indeed.
    I'm wonderingwhen you think /call -
    Quote: seti
    ... the desperate cry of the proto-bloods' anal pain ...
    born in the USSR (?!), you do not think about the fact that "unwittingly waving" to those and who and so, to a sufficiently deep extent, divided our empire (USSR), and unfortunately quite successfully (!).... We are in Ukraine in general "drank it in full", (https://youtu.be/NhmIRLDajkg) .... now people in Karabakh are suffering "live" (!), a little earlier, in Transnistria and Moldavia; ... in South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Georgia (!); .... How much more do children and grandchildren need "Imperials of the USSR", stopped looking at each other - "in sight", but on the contrary, like their fathers and grandfathers, were ready "drag the wounded"(as in 1941-1945 or 1979-1989 in Afghanistan), not on a national basis, but as ONE IMPERTS (or, if you like, the glorious grandchildren of Great Tartary) ?!? !!!.... How many times do you need to kill each other to understandthat THIS CANNOT BE DONE on YOUR LAND, to please/for joy external forces ?! ? !!!....
    Are you okay ?!.... this is, -
    Quote: seti
    Really very good news
    ....
    For example, I'm glad for the shipbuilding of the Russian Federation, but I DON'T LIKE that it slips, due to the loss of capacity of the Nikolaev "Zorya-Mashproekt", which now, idiots like Zelensky, are ready to sell Turkey out of poverty (!) .... But it was created in the USSR, and worked for it more than SUCCESSFULLY (!), allowing ships with VI 7500 tons (type BOD 1155) to build and transfer to the fleet in 1,5-2,7 years (!!!) .
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 28 October 2020 12: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Vl Nemchinov
      you do not think about the fact that you "unwittingly waving" to those and who, and so, to a sufficiently deep extent, divided our empire ...

      I'm afraid they "podmahivaet" meaningfully. The principle of divide and rule is very convenient for ours and yours, as well as for any other comprador bourgeoisie. And colossal money is earned on interethnic strife and interethnic conflicts. There are enough such "podmahivalschik" on any site and I really don't know if it's just stupidity or meaningful service of someone's interests.
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 26 October 2020 10: 26 New
    +3
    Step by step.
    Already happy.

    "Step by step, barefoot on the water,
    The times that are released to us
    Sun on holiday, salt in trouble,
    Souls were cut in half.

    By mistake, of course not,
    Reward with the hearts of birds
    Those who remember the way up
    And seeks to throw himself down.

    We were led by the guide clouds,
    Behind a step, a step, like a bridge over an abyss,
    Sometimes we were thrown to the bottom
    Sometimes it raised to the stars.
  • wasps
    wasps 26 October 2020 10: 26 New
    +4
    Yeah ... better late than never!
  • Kurare
    Kurare 26 October 2020 10: 29 New
    +7
    Without belittling the achievement of "Zvezda" - well done, there is nothing to say - can anyone tell me whether the gearbox of the original design or a copy / improved design of the Zori?
    1. svp67
      svp67 26 October 2020 10: 36 New
      10
      Quote: Kurare
      Can anyone tell me whether the gearbox is of the original design or a copy / improved design of "Zori"?

      Anyway, the gearbox "Zoryu ...." is still a Soviet groundwork, so that we can use this legacy to the full. Considering how many parts and assemblies were manufactured at the enterprises of Russia and supplied to "Zorya ..." But it is also clear that it will not be one-on-one with that ...
    2. Orange bigg
      Orange bigg 26 October 2020 10: 38 New
      10
      Most likely an improved design, since the technical documentation was being finalized. I think this suggests an analogy with the VK-2500, which replaced the Ukrainian TV3-117. Replacement with improved performance characteristics of the product.
      The specialists of PJSC "ZVEZDA" completed the revision of the technical documentation and performed a large amount of work on preparation of production, manufacturing of parts and assembly units, assembly and testing, including the creation of a unique test bench.


      The entire scope of design and technological preparation was carried out by the enterprise independently, without external consultations. It was required not only to make changes to the design, but also to modify the test bench directly during the tests.

      The work was carried out in conditions of the workload of its own technological equipment with a significant volume of orders and the emergence of "narrow" production areas, as well as the absence of a developed market for interfactory cooperation companies of the required profile.

      Despite this, all difficulties were successfully overcome, and now PJSC "ZVEZDA" can serially produce such transmissions.

      http://www.zvezda.spb.ru/?utm_referrer=korabel.ru%2Fnews%2Fcomments%2Freduktory_dlya_silovoy_ustanovki_fregata_proekta_22350_uspeshno_proshli_ispytaniya.html
      1. Kurare
        Kurare 26 October 2020 11: 14 New
        +6
        Quote: OrangeBigg
        Most likely an improved design, since the technical documentation was being finalized.

        Thank you! hi
      2. venik
        venik 26 October 2020 11: 27 New
        13
        Quote: OrangeBigg
        I think this suggests an analogy with the VK-2500, which replaced the Ukrainian TV3-117

        ========
        Funny example! Especially when you consider that TV3-117 were developed in St. Petersburg in KB named after Klimov!!! Later they were transferred to Zaporozhbe, where they were "finalized" in KB im. Ivchenko... So, the VK-2500 is a further development of the "Klimovsk" engines! laughing
  • Galleon
    Galleon 26 October 2020 10: 40 New
    10
    Well the week starts. Protect these personnel: designers, workers, technologists. Protect and develop. This reducer is only the first sign - the fleet needs development and new ships.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 26 October 2020 14: 41 New
      +2
      These cadres, grown with great difficulty, are cherished and developed. Only the state has a very distant relationship to this.
      1. Galleon
        Galleon 26 October 2020 15: 41 New
        +3
        When the concepts of "state" and "state interest" are separated from each other, you don't even know whether to be happy or upset. Probably, nevertheless, to rejoice, because the second, which exists among individuals, compensates for the lack of the first.
        1. Lex_is
          Lex_is 26 October 2020 15: 58 New
          -1
          Of course to rejoice, without such people everything would be sad.
          For example, after the imposition of sanctions, PJSC Zvezda, JSC ZRTO Almaz-Antey, JSC PO SEVMASH, JSC Admiralty Shipyards, JSC Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center would be left without a design tool, since on the drawing boards nowadays they do not draw, and they do not have the ability to use imported software in the current conditions, and the creation of an average machine-building CAD is at least 10-12 years of work.
          1. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 27 October 2020 11: 22 New
            0
            Quote: Lex_is
            and they do not have the ability to use imported software under current conditions, and the creation of an average machine-building CAD is at least 10-12 years of work.

            Compass 3D won't work?
            I wonder if the imported software was officially purchased, or as usual?
            1. Lex_is
              Lex_is 27 October 2020 12: 04 New
              -1
              They use Compass 3D and use, as well as Pilot, Gulf Stream, etc. they even manage to use the construction Pilot ICE for designing icebreakers.

              But, firstly, this is an average MCAD, and secondly, this CAD has been developed exclusively with private funds since 1989.
              It was very lucky that there were enthusiastic people who were able to create it and develop it for so many years, having overcome all crises, otherwise they would have had to return to drawing boards.
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 26 October 2020 10: 40 New
    +6
    Russia begins its own serial production of PO55 gearboxes, previously produced in Ukraine.
    So one more point was thrown unnecessary. good This is a significant and necessary business for our Navy!
    1. Soko
      Soko 26 October 2020 11: 52 New
      18
      Quote: aszzz888
      So, one more item was thrown unnecessary

      Of course it was stupid on their part. Such a sales market was thrown away ...
    2. bayard
      bayard 26 October 2020 12: 30 New
      0
      Quote: aszzz888
      So, one more item was thrown unnecessary

      Are you sure what exactly we threw?
      And today ?
      And not them, and in 2014?
      When did ALL military shipbuilding programs start in Russia?
      When not only frigates 22350, but also three corps 11356 in Kaliningrad, hung without a power plant. And they (the Black Sea) had to be offered to India ... after long negotiations ... after the Indians bought out our power plants in Ukraine ...
      And "Zorya" is now on a Chinese contract, providing their shipbuilding printer with components.
      But in 2014 they could have returned everything of their own, not limited to Crimea alone ... And they would not have had any problems with anything at all.
      Sanctions would have been like that. but Russia would have its own "Ukrainian" aircraft and marine engine-building plants, turbines for icebreakers and nuclear power plants, ports, shipyards, Yuzhmash, a huge market and a monopoly on grain trade in the world (1st + 3rd place in the world) .. ...
      And now we are glad that we have also repeated the Soviet gearbox?
      And Ukraine is definitely no worse off from this - it has already had nothing from Russia in this regard for the seventh year already ... and it seems that it is not going to.
      But he is intensively cooperating with Turkey, China, etc., merging Soviet technologies with everyone, but at the same time - to spite Russia ...
      Having the choice to regain EVERYTHING or to give EVERYTHING to the enemy ... the Kremlin chose ... to help the enemy ...
      And now, from the former brothers - the same Russian people, they are preparing a strong one for us (this is not a joke or hyperbole - they are the same Russians, with the same qualities), an evil, vengeful and stubborn ENEMY.
      This is the price of choosing 2014.

      And since then Russia has unresolved problems ... in EVERYTHING.
      But gearboxes, albeit later than promised, are still good.
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 27 October 2020 02: 22 New
        -2

        bayard
        Yesterday, 12: 30
        NEW

        -1
        Quote: aszzz888
        So, one more item was thrown unnecessary

        Are you sure what exactly we threw? ...
        Quite !!! Look at the GDP unnecessary and ours. Look at the ratio of the unnecessary aircraft and our aircraft, etc. The obvious on the surface, you just need to look closely.
        1. bayard
          bayard 27 October 2020 03: 24 New
          +2
          Quote: aszzz888
          Quite !!! Look at the GDP unnecessary and ours. Look at the ratio of the unnecessary aircraft and our aircraft, etc. The obvious on the surface, you just need to look closely.

          What you wrote does not mean anything on the topic of the article and what I said.
          And yet, what you read in this article is misleading and hides the meaning of what happened. Here's what happened. Exactly a year ago, PJSC "Zvezda" handed over to the St. Petersburg shipyard the first manufactured and tested set of power plant for frigate 22350 of a completely domestic assembly for installation on the third frigate of the series, which had just been launched for completion without a power plant. They promised to install this power plant before the end of this year and bring it to the first sea trials by the end of 3. In the middle of summer, an amendment to the plans was announced - the frigate will be released for sea trials in the spring of 2020 ...
          And now, to the fanfare of the honest public, it was announced that this power plant will not be installed on frigate number 3, but will be installed on frigate number 4.
          Next year .
          And yet (!) In a year, it (the frigate) may go on sea trials.
          What does all this mean ?
          Initially, representatives of the domestic shipbuilding industry expressed the opinion that a propulsion system of such complexity had never been installed afloat - in a finished hull, afloat ... And there may be problems.
          And they seem to have happened.
          It was not possible to solve them during this year, and it was decided not to torture more shipbuilders, but to install the power plant on frigate number 4, which is still on the slipway.
          All .
          Lost a year.
          Installation on another ship will take at least another year.
          The ship will go to sea not earlier than 2022.
          Commissioned no earlier than 2023 - 2024
          And it is not yet known how the new power plant will show itself in operation ...
          Are you now at least starting to understand who threw whom?
          Who bears the loss?
          From whom the new ships cannot get their propulsion systems?
          Whose defenses are affected?
          A marine gearbox is a very difficult and capricious thing to master. Despite the fact that it has a mixed character - diesel-gas turbine ... It is not yet known how many tricks they will get from it in operation and refinement ...
          This is a whole engineering school, in which you cannot jump from the third grade to the academy.
          I was really looking forward to the end of this year and the first sea trials of this power plant ... but I heard that once again ... I didn’t do it.
          And I am quite sincerely upset, because this means again a delay in the delivery of the ships that are so necessary to the fleet.

          What did you call "unnecessary", young man?
          Nikolaev plant "Zorya-Mashproekt"?
          Zaporozhye aircraft engine plant - the flagship of the Soviet aircraft engine building?
          Dnepropetrovsk Yuzhmash - the flagship of the Soviet rocketry?
          Who are you to give such characteristics to the pearls of the Soviet military-industrial complex?
          What have you done in your life to talk like that about the people who created the world's leading engineering schools?
          And who are you to squander the property of the previously united people and State?
          I said above that over 6,5 years in all of the above areas, Russia has not been able to create analogues of these unique industries. And no one knows when he will be able to do it.
          And whether he can fully.
          What was created by the mighty Soviet science and economy for many years and with enormous efforts to repeat in modern conditions is very, very difficult. And the people are not the same, and the authorities are not the same - they are not the ones who set goals.
          And she (power) is not united in her decisions and efforts.
          All these issues could be resolved in 2014, show the power of the Russian Federation will and mind.
          This did not happen .
          The losses from this shown short-sightedness and weakness today are difficult to quantify in money ... these are simply colossal numbers. This is a terrible blow to the economy, defense capability, finances, social consequences and Russia's authority in the world.
          And all today's failures and failures in a huge number of programs in the economy and the defense industry are the consequences of the mistakes made in 2014.
          It's easy for me to show and reveal this, but it will be just ... a rout ...
          Russia rolled back in its development and began to fade economically ... And the reason is not sanctions, low prices for hydrocarbons and the "coronavirus" ... everything is much deeper and more serious.
          The reason is the lack of state will and a clear, understandable for everyone and accepted by everyone (the whole society) of a single goal and idea.

          And a person who considers his neighbors unnecessary ... himself ultimately turns out to be useless to anyone. Sooner or later, karma descends on him - responsibility and punishment for the displayed arrogance and pride.
          Try to understand everything I said and draw the right conclusions.
    3. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 26 October 2020 19: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: aszzz888
      So one more point was thrown unnecessary.
      what's wrong with you ?!... The empire cannot have UNNECESSARY COMPONENTS !!!, and if today you are ready to take for granted "the breakaway of one facet of the empire, then tomorrow, do not notice how from you, they split off its second edge " !!!... If you yourself and out loud, let us talk about Ukraine (Abkhazia / Belarus / Moldova with Transnistria), as unnecessary, or about "buffer zones", then what kind of attitude towards YOURSELF with THIS can you provoke ?!... How that little schoolgirl, did not know the history of her land, but who wrote the verse, - "we will never be brothers ...." ?! ... Maybe someone is just waiting for this, (!!!) ... and applauds, hearing such statements ?!.... Want to play along with them ? !!!!..... Out of bewilderment, or out of malice ?!
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 27 October 2020 02: 19 New
        -3
        Nemchinov Vl (Vladimir)
        Yesterday, 19: 44
        NEW .... what is wrong with you? !!! ... The empire cannot have NOT THE NECESSARY COMPONENTS !!!, and if today you are ready to accept "the breakaway of one facet of the empire, then tomorrow, not notice how from you, they split off its second edge "!!! ... If you yourself and out loud, you allow to talk about Ukraine (Abkhazia / Belarus / Moldavia with Transnistria), as unnecessary, or about" buffer zones ", then what attitude to YOURSELF with THIS can you provoke? !!! ... Like that little schoolgirl who did not know the history of her land, but wrote a poem - "we will never be brothers ...."? !!! ... Maybe someone is just waiting for this, (!!!) ... and applauds, hearing such statements? !!! .... Do you want to play along with them? !!!! ..... By bewilderment, or from malicious intent? !!!
        From all this huge set of words, I will express a wish - separate flies from cutlets, and do not sculpt soft and wet into a heap. hi
  • Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 26 October 2020 10: 43 New
    +3
    By order of the President of the Russian Federation, the plant was tasked with mastering the production of new heavy gearboxes as soon as possible.

    But what about the "invisible hand of the market", which in the 90s was our banner? Oh, wrong?
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 26 October 2020 11: 22 New
      10
      Quote: Angelo Provolone
      "invisible hand of the market"

      She, this hand, brought so much harm that you need to chop it off to the very tonsils! hi
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 27 October 2020 00: 01 New
        +1
        Then for the most "bunker".
    2. unknown
      unknown 26 October 2020 14: 42 New
      +3
      The "invisible hand of the market" exists only in the fevered brains of the teachers of the Higher School of Colonial Economics.
      The West has long been a planned economy. And state capitalism.
  • BLADFROST
    BLADFROST 26 October 2020 10: 43 New
    -2
    Lokhlov is gradually being driven into the Stone Age. Skakuas are so familiar. While Lokhlandia is affected by the Banderovirus, they live on reservations controlled by PiNDostan
    1. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 26 October 2020 19: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: BLADFROST
      Lokhlov is gradually being driven into the Stone Age.
      aren't you already ?! .
      Quote: BLADFROST
      ... Skakuas are so familiar. While Lokhlandia is afflicted with Banderovirus,
      when uv. Vladislav, you state so categorically, for the whole country of neighbors ?!you probably feel YOURSELF absolutely NOT AFFECTED (!) my guess is correct ?!... but try to see "how your statement looks from the outside", with a claim to SUPER SIGNIFICANCE (?!)unfortunately not strong (!!)...
      Quote: BLADFROST
      ... they live on reservations controlled by PiNDostan
      ... well, this ... we are trying to change it as much as possible without bloodshed in the future (!)Through (Portnova, Lukash, Shariytsev, etc.)... but Are you sure that do not sleep (!).. ?! What's with Chubais (?!)and why is he still "afloat" ....? !! Who is Furgal ? !! Why was Lev Rokhlin gone ? !! ... and so on ... ?!. Things are good ?!! It does not matter ?!! ..
  • Alexander X
    Alexander X 26 October 2020 10: 52 New
    +7
    Everything that goes for the defense of Russia must be produced in Russia. Well done for starting to produce their own gearboxes!
    1. Orange bigg
      Orange bigg 26 October 2020 11: 06 New
      +8
      Thanks to the sanctions. As they say, there would be no happiness, but misfortune helped.
    2. bayard
      bayard 27 October 2020 03: 48 New
      +1
      Well done, well done, but only these GEM were tested and transferred to the CVD a year ago. And by the end of this they promised to bring frigate number 3 to the first sea trials. And instead of testing, we are told that the frigate number 3 will not receive the power plant yet (it was not possible to install such a complex power plant afloat. Therefore, it will be placed on the frigate number 4, which is still on the slipway.
      That is, a year has already been lost, and about another year will be lost for installation on another ship, launching it into the water, completing it at the wall ... before the first exit to the factory sea trials. Those. not earlier than the end of 2022
      And only then (!!!) we will know whether this propulsion system has turned out and whether modern Russia has its own marine propulsion technology.
      And its tests at the stand ended more than a year ago.
      And it was a year ago that we were all amicably happy that “finally, our new frigates had a completely domestic power plant ... How many enthusiasm and plans there were ... I myself was glowing with optimism ...
      but everything turned out as always.
      And as with everything lately.
      And you were given a failure for another victory.
      And all thanks to the play on words about "the beginning of mass production".
      But in fact, they were just waiting for a report on the first running test of the installation ... But now they decided to just start production as it is and eliminate the shortcomings on the finished products ...
      Not the best, but a forced decision - there are already a bunch of buildings on the stocks in different degrees of readiness ...
  • Al Asad
    Al Asad 26 October 2020 11: 03 New
    +5
    What was a very heated debate 4-5 years ago is being brought to life. And the gearboxes were replaced and the engines are slowly starting to make our own.
    And many had very serious doubts about this.
    1. bayard
      bayard 27 October 2020 03: 53 New
      +1
      Until the first ship goes on sea trials with the domestic power plant, and passes them successfully, it is too early to say that we have succeeded.
      Only exploitation will show the maturity and quality of a given product.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 26 October 2020 11: 15 New
    +6
    Sawed "Russian Diesel" and in one gear shop, and now we have what we have!
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 October 2020 11: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: APASUS
      Sawed "Russian Diesel" and in one gear shop, and now we have what we have!

      We will destroy the whole world to the core, and then ... We will start all over again.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 October 2020 11: 58 New
      +4
      Even in the USSR, modern marine diesel engines of high power were not mastered even by foreign localization - but Russia, destroyed and plundered, could.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 26 October 2020 12: 01 New
        +9
        Quote: Vadim237
        Even in the USSR, modern marine diesel engines of high power were not mastered even by foreign localization - but Russia, destroyed and plundered, could.

        Under the USSR, the most modern plant in Europe, LDZ, was built, but they could not start it. The US State Department asked Chernomyrdin to remove this enterprise from the lists of strategic enterprises, in short, after privatization it no longer exists.
        1. Kart
          Kart 26 October 2020 12: 19 New
          -1
          Quote: APASUS
          Under the USSR, the most modern plant in Europe, LDZ, was built, but they could not start it.

          "The engine was very similar to the real one, but it didn't work" (Ilf and Petrov, "12 chairs")
  • Soko
    Soko 26 October 2020 11: 46 New
    22
    Finally, we embroider the bottlenecks. Congratulations to all involved drinks good
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 26 October 2020 11: 55 New
    +1
    Is serial production a lope?
    1 piece per year?
    1. bayard
      bayard 27 October 2020 03: 54 New
      0
      Less so far.
  • rubin6286
    rubin6286 26 October 2020 12: 04 New
    -9
    Why so long? The whole production association has been making this gearbox for 4 years. In 1944, an IL-23 rolled out of the aircraft factories in Kuibyshev every 2 minutes and a brand new La-30 rolled out every 5 minutes. There was a war, women and teenagers worked around the clock in the shops, and now it is peacetime, an 8-hour working day and some kind of gearbox for the ship, which was made a little more than a destroyer in 4 years. The management of the software should be imprisoned, the designers who allowed the "tiddiness" to be fired and to recruit new people from the graduates of specialized universities. Shame and shame, to which they have brought the country.
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 26 October 2020 12: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: rubin6286
      designers who allowed the "toughness" to fire and recruit new people from graduates of specialized universities


      Do the graduates agree?
      1. unknown
        unknown 26 October 2020 14: 44 New
        +1
        And the graduates are not "victims of the exam"?
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 26 October 2020 13: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: rubin6286
      designers who allowed the "toughness" to fire and recruit new people from graduates of specialized universities

      Funny.
      The head of the Design Bureau named after V.I. Ilyushin.
      Even a good graduate needs to work on a live project of 3-4 years to become a small-small real designer. And considering who is now going to technical universities (those who did not have enough points) and how they study there ...
    3. seregin-s1
      seregin-s1 26 October 2020 13: 57 New
      +1
      You had to help the project, then everything would be on time!
    4. Lex_is
      Lex_is 26 October 2020 14: 26 New
      -1
      A whole production association is a private organization that survived, invested enormous efforts in the development of engineering personnel, the purchase and implementation of modern PLM systems (which were also created by a private domestic enterprise, and in which the state did not invest a dime).

      They did a tremendous job, and without this work of people who are passionate about their work, there would be simply no one to carry out the assignments of someone who suddenly became concerned about the problem.
  • bald
    bald 26 October 2020 12: 20 New
    +3
    Ours, only ours and, if possible, in all sectors, for this we have everything. And finish off the underdogs who put sticks in the wheels (stealing from projects, the same applies).
  • denis obuckov
    denis obuckov 26 October 2020 12: 36 New
    -4
    Well, finally, a tangible exhaust, not empty words.
  • alexmach
    alexmach 26 October 2020 13: 37 New
    +2
    According to the press service of PJSC "Zvezda", the gearboxes for the first domestic power plant of the Project 22350 frigate have been successfully tested and found ready for serial production.

    And here is the confirmation that "Admiral Golovko" was launched without a power plant, or at least without a gearbox.
    1. bayard
      bayard 27 October 2020 04: 05 New
      +1
      They tried to install this power plant on Admiral Golovko already afloat ... throughout the whole year ... A year ago, they promised to bring the frigate to the first sea trials at the end of 2020 ... Then - in the middle of the year they called the date of sea trials - the beginning 2021 ... And now we are told that the power plant will not be installed on it at all, but will be placed on frigate No. 4, which is still on the slipway.
      Lost a year.
      And the first sea trials will happen no earlier than 2022.
      Everything is as always in the country of victorious capitalism.
      The USC, as always, shines with its "efficiency", "punctuality" and impunity.
  • bukhach
    bukhach 26 October 2020 14: 36 New
    0
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    It was easy to deceive the people then, today it is becoming more and more difficult.

    Are you kidding, perhaps? There are countless reverse examples, ranging from financial pyramids and all sorts of gurus and ending with the election promises of political figures around the globe, and even with modern technology, even more so!
  • 123456789
    123456789 26 October 2020 15: 46 New
    0
    Letter from Peter the Great to Menshikov

    I am sending one hundred rubles
    To build ships
    How do you get, give an answer
    Started to build or not

    Response to the letter

    Ninety three rubles
    Raked and drunk
    How do you get, give an answer
    Build on or not

    Letter from Peter the Great to Menshikov

    My king's will
    I don't know anything
    Where did you drink who rowed
    But so that there were ships
    Pikabu
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 26 October 2020 23: 17 New
    0
    Good news for the Navy!
    It justifies the popular saying "Russians harness for a long time, but they go fast!"
  • Bootstrap
    Bootstrap 27 October 2020 10: 42 New
    0
    bayard
    Good afternoon. It seems to me that fatigue and the accumulated resentment over these almost 7 years of uncertainty speaks in you. After all, quite recently you yourself clearly understood and explained why Russia could not do in 2014 what it didn’t do .. Maybe in fact Russia was being dragged into this conflict by the ears? Maybe our "partners" really had a plan for exactly this development of the situation? After all, there was mining of all hydraulic structures throughout the Dnieper? (From your words). Indeed, we were not ready then for a direct collision. Themselves wrote that they could have missed the blow.
    I agree that in a single (and even in a union) state, there would be innumerable more bonuses. But the choice has been made by the management. And I can assume that the choice was not easy. So we are working on.
  • senima56
    senima56 27 October 2020 16: 18 New
    0
    This is very good and very long awaited news! good Well done! drinks
  • seregatara1969
    seregatara1969 29 October 2020 14: 54 New
    0
    This is not a meat grinder for you to assemble. A big piece of iron turned out.