The capture of Zangilan: the Azerbaijani army was able to reach the borders of Armenia in the southeast

The Azerbaijani army continues to advance in areas adjacent to the territory of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. To date, such settlements as Horadiz, Jebrail, Fizuli, Hadrut, Zangilan in the southern direction of hostilities, as well as Talish, Murovdag, Sugovushan in the northern one, have passed under the control of Azerbaijani troops.

With the capture of Zangilan by Azerbaijani troops, the situation in the southern territories, which are still held by the Armenian side, seriously complicated.

If the Azerbaijani troops succeed in breaking through the defense line southwest of the aforementioned city, then the Armenian troops will face the danger of losing control over the territories directly adjacent to the territory of the Republic of Armenia.

Rasul Hasan Map

In particular, Azerbaijani troops may be in the direction of such settlements of Armenia as Nerkin Ande and Shikaogh in the coming days.

The exit to the southeastern borders of Armenia for the Azerbaijani army in the short term can give little. However, this is both a matter of prestige and a question of the effectiveness of an offensive operation. Moreover, in case of an intensification of the offensive in the north, the Azerbaijani side may try to cut off the territory of the NKR (Artsakh) from the territorial "communication corridors" with Armenia. This, apparently, is the main strategy of the Azerbaijani operation.

If the Armenian side does not take actions that could stop the offensive, then in the end there may be a danger of losing the main line of communication with Artsakh: the direction of Goris - Tekh - Lachin - Stepanakert.

Just a few minutes ago, the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan announced the destruction of drone Armenian troops. It is alleged that he was moving in the direction of the city of Ganja.

Comments

[Krasnodar]

And Shoshana writes about the Armenian victory in the south and the retreat of the Azerbaijanis.

[Livonetc]

Wow, these fairy tales.
Oh, these storytellers.

[Shurik70]

Yes, there is a massacre on all sides.
https://www.facebook.com/taron.shahbazyan.9/videos/2186299554839195

[genisis]

Today near Goris

[Krasnodar]

Russia takes Armenia under its protection, protecting the borders of the Motherland of Marshals and Generals from tomato traders.

[genisis]

All three Armenian marshals were born on the territory of the NKR. The photo was taken near the city of Goris in the Republic of Armenia. Have you studied geography in Israel?
Or have you decided to prepare your homework for evening humor courses?

[Krasnodar]

1) In Israel, unfortunately, we did not study the geography of Armenia, as well as the biography of its outstanding sons
2) NKR is not Armenia? What are you fighting for?
3) I have humor courses around the clock - but there are no homework
4) It is necessary to make a proposal to the Israeli Ministry of Education - to include the geography of Armenia and the NKR in the curriculum, including a detailed study of the history of each settlement, its famous natives, population and economic indicators.
5) Duplicate the program in universities in the USA, UK, Russia and China

[genisis]

And if you have not studied geography, why do you undertake to comment on the issues related to the location of settlements on the territory of a particular state?
NKR is the former NKAO.
And NKAO is a land inhabited by Armenians, after the collapse of the Russian Empire, included in Azerbaijan.
It is for the opportunity to live, work and raise children on this land now and the Armenians are fighting in Artsakh.

[Krasnodar]

I explain that the national hearth of the Armenian people is in the RA. The same Armenians live in NKR (I know, they are divided into Yerevan, Karabakh, etc., but nevertheless). Therefore, I am correcting myself - Russian troops are defending the national hearth of Marshals and Generals from tomato traders.

[NTD]

Quote: genisis

And NKAO is a land inhabited by Armenians, after the collapse of the Russian Empire, included in Azerbaijan.

Listen to you, it feels like before the collapse of the Russian Empire there was a country called Armenia, which included Karabakh and the poor Armenians were taken away and given to Azerbaijanis.

Can you stop lying?

Quote: genisis

It is for the opportunity to live, work and raise children on this land now and the Armenians are fighting in Artsakh.

until the 88th year did not live well? You don't really live in your country, but you want Karabakh. Georgia has Javakheti. Turkey has Kars. Not too much?

Have you heard the saying that greed has ruined the frayer? This is the case my dear.

[KARAKURT777]

Stop nursing your brains about the lands "included in Azerbaijan". Aren't you ashamed to keep people for an ignoramus? What are your lands, what are you talking about at all ??? RI moved you there. Be quiet too ...

[Hello from Baku]

You are wrong, the village of Chardakhlu is located in the Shamkir region of Azerbaijan.

[Krasnodar]

Yes, not the point - before the first Karabakh war it was an Armenian village or a village with a significant number of Armenian population.

[Rubina]

The error came out. Open the Armenian Wiki. Mikoyan and Babajanyan were born in the village of Chardakhli, Shamkir region of Azerbaijan (this is near Ganja). This village is not included either in Karabakh or in the 7 occupied regions. The third marshal, I don't know who you mean.

[Nagaibak]

Rubina "Third Marshal, I don't know who you mean."
Mikoyan was not a marshal. But Baghramyan was. Chardakhly is a famous village.
"In the village of Chardakhlu, 2 marshals were born, 12 generals, 57 colonels, 199 people became officers and 7 Heroes of the Soviet Union. 853 natives of Chardakhlu were awarded Soviet orders and medals. During the Great Patriotic War, 1250 people went to the front from Chardakhlu, of which 452 died the death of the brave. More than 250 people out of 1250 inhabitants of Chardakhlu, that is, every fifth of those who participated in the Great Patriotic War, took high command positions in the Soviet Army. So, let's call all the Chardakhla generals. Marshals: Ivan Baghramyan - Marshal of the Soviet Union, Hamazasp Babajanyan - Chief Marshal of the Armored Forces Generals: Arzas Tergukasov (Arshak Ter-Ghukasyan) - Tsarist Lieutenant General, Jagan Margaryan - Tsarist Major General, Sargis Manasyan - Minister of Internal Affairs of the First Republic of Armenia, Smbat Danielyan - General, Aleksan Martirosyan - General, Gurgen Manasyan - Major General, Yuri Martirosyan - Major General, Ilya Baghramyan - Major General, Leonid Martirosyan - Major General, GareginGabrielyan is a major general, Rafael Hovhannisyan is a major general and finally Grigory Karagezyan is a colonel general who, in the opinion of the Chardakhlins, just fell short of becoming their third marshal. "

[Ren]

Quote: Krasnodar

Russia takes Armenia under its protection, protecting the borders of the Motherland of Marshals and Generals from tomato traders.

Why should the Russian Federation interfere and side with the de facto Nazi Armenian regime.
At the head of Armenia is the grandson of a Nazi, an active member of the "Armenian SS Legion".
A monument was erected to the leader of the "Armenian SS Legion" in the center of Yerevan. Among the political parties there are direct followers of the charter and names of ethnic Armenian terrorist organizations.
At the head of Azerbaijan is the son of a Chekist who fought against the Nazis of the "Armenian SS Legion".
The "Armenian SS Legion" was engaged in ethnic cleansing in Transcaucasia, destroying the entire non-Armenian population (Russians, Azerbaijanis, Turks, Ukrainians, Tatars, Dagestanis, Jews, Ossetians, etc.) in the hope of creating a "Great Armenia" from sea to sea (no one else reminds?).
After the Second World War, up to the 2000s, ethnic Armenian terrorist organizations such as ASALA, NOP carried out terrorist attacks all over the world, including the terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro in 1977.
Does anyone know or have heard of Azerbaijani terrorist organizations or SS-sheep?
Why should the Russian Federation interfere and take the side of the de facto Nazi Armenian regime until they fulfill at least:
1. To demolish the monument to Nzhdeh. Behind the neck with a crane.
2. Clauses 50 on language, criminal cases, money, channels, a kick in the ass of Pashinyan on air at the border.
3. Reducing the number of employees of the US Embassy to 5 employees.
4. Prayer on knees in front of the Russian Embassy.
After that we will think ...

[Vladimir Kurenkov]

Why does Russia need a war for pro-Western Armenia? The Russian language was banned, Russian channels were also banned, entrepreneurs were expelled from Russia, and the youth were taught that Armenia would be better without Russia. A monument to Garegin Nzhdeh, Hitler's accomplice, was erected. Pashinyan's grandfather, by the way, also served in the Armenian SS legion, and Pashinyan himself announced Armenia's intention to join NATO without leaving the CSTO! Does he think we are fools? I have been communicating with the Armenians at forums for a long time, even before the conflict in Karabakh, they all declare that Russia owes them everything. The audience is extremely arrogant. Armenia is a Caucasian Ukraine, which will bring us many more problems. I think Russia should stand on the sidelines and wait for Azerbaijan to return its territories so that the Armenians understand who they really are. Let them come to their senses.

[Krasnodar]

I totally agree.

[Odysseus]

They write cut off the advanced units near Zangelan. Actually, it is not very clear why they went there at all, and did not immediately turn north at Akery. Provide a flank, maybe. But it doesn't really matter.
With the enemy dominating the air on the plain, the Armenians have no chances, they can beat them up a little, cut off the groups that are too advanced, but nothing more.
For the Armenians, the main thing is to keep the Aker valley and climb from there to the mountains to the north.

[Krasnodar]

They do not want to create panic among the NKR population, most likely

[SSR]

Quote: Krasnodar

They do not want to create panic among the NKR population, most likely

If locals are cut out, then there is no panic, you just have to run or they will cut out.
I looked at the map and felt sad. Events are only gaining momentum, the Turks will seemingly soon make nagibayko. This is my imha. Well, I don't believe that Europeans will allow Turkey to strengthen more than necessary, otherwise the Mediterranean will have problems.

[Krasnodar]

Let's see - Aliyev agreed to meet with Pashinyan

[Vladimir Kurenkov]

Aliyev needs surrender - he does not want to increase losses.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Odyssey

They write cut off the advanced units near Zangelan.

It looks like it was cut off like that. Without air control, any offensive operation is just the slaughter of your soldiers.
Ps Did you rate the disguise?

[Yalquzaq]

The Azerbaijani army is already hitting Gubadli !!! this is after Zangelan district.
Wet fantasies of Shushan, Azerbaijani troops are still under Hadrut and Fizuli are in the cauldron

[Yalquzaq]

a little more encirclement in Armenian

[Yalquzaq]

let's continue the theme of boilers

[Yalquzaq]

a bit more

[Pechkin]

All these videos are horror, of course, complete powerlessness. Even the infantry in a line or in the trenches is tin, helpless. Suicide bombers, victory depends on the amount of ammunition the enemy has. I don’t want to see such videos with Russian soldiers. -to insert a torch into the train ... it's high time. For the emergence of effective means of countering shock drones, we need our own. To work out their capabilities and understand the effectiveness of countermeasures in exercises. All the same, the armor-2M will be called or TOP-2abra kadabra, as But the military air defense must be able to deal with this threat.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Pechkin

All these videos are horror, of course, complete powerlessness. Even the infantry in a line or in the trenches is tin, helpless. Suicide bombers, victory depends on the amount of ammunition the enemy has. I don’t want to see such videos with Russian soldiers. -to insert a torch into the train ... it's high time. For the emergence of effective means of countering shock drones, we need our own. To work out their capabilities and understand the effectiveness of countermeasures in exercises. All the same, the armor-2M will be called or TOP-2abra kadabra, as But the military air defense must be able to deal with this threat.

Air defense is excellent at fighting this threat. The trouble is in the training and discipline of the operators of the "allies". When I looked at the footage from Syria, where they beat on the switched off Shells, or here, looking at the radar station in the other direction, the Osam, I have only one question for the command of the air defense of the "allies" - why do you hate your own soldiers so much that you drive a bolt into multilevel air defense, for PERMANENT combat duty, for sectors that intersect and support each other, for banal CONTINUOUS sky tracking, for aviation, as one of the most important elements of air defense, for electronic warfare systems, and most importantly, for training its crews. You already got equipment for free, for which others pay more money than your whole country costs. And you expose yourself, and destroy the technique and the guys who hoped for you on earth. How many soldiers were killed and equipment burned by bayraktars? Dofiga and a little more. Why NOT ONE !!! Armenian fighter plane hasn't taken off since the beginning of the war! It's bad * when your own Air Force officers are so shaking at their bottom that they are afraid to fly and shoot down this rubbish. In my opinion, this is not a question of air defense. How there - it was not a bobbin ...

[Gnefredov]

Gorgeous. Like a roller skating rink.
* - but on the cons, spit. Someone clearly burns out :)

[genisis]

The Defense Army of Artsakh does not have its own aviation. As well as techniques for multilevel air defense. And they didn't get the equipment for free. Is that a trophy. And they don't have Iskander either.
And the army of the Republic of Armenia cannot take part in hostilities with its SU-30s, for example, because then the war will begin between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

[Krasnodar]

The Armenian Armed Forces have a scanty annual plaque. It makes no sense to launch the S-30 against the MiG-29 AZ, because those are training over the Caspian Sea.

[genisis]

If my memory serves me, and it serves me right, then the Russian Aerospace Forces has several pilots of Armenian nationality with a flying time certainly no less than that of the great and terrible MiG-29 Az over the Caspian Sea.
The issue of their presence at the helm of the SU-30SM of the Armenian Air Force is as close to reality as the direct clashes between the Armenian Armed Forces and the Azerbaijan Armed Forces.

[Krasnodar]

This already needs to be negotiated with the Russian Federation)).

[genisis]

Doubt that they will agree?

[Krasnodar]

I don't care - but I think that you will have to pay for this, not necessarily with money)). At the same time, the number of the Azerbaijani Air Force is slightly more, EMNIP

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

The Armenian Armed Forces have a scanty annual plaque. It makes no sense to launch the S-30 against the MiG-29 AZ, because those are training over the Caspian Sea.

The trouble. The enemies are stronger. We must then surrender and that's it. Strange approach. Even if Armenia loses ALL of its planes and pilots, and this is not easy to arrange, because there is no need to stick out of its space, then with 8 lives they will save thousands who would have been killed from those UAVs. Isn't that the job of a military man?

[Krasnodar]

Yes, the fighter is ineffective against the UAV! The Israelis are working against them by helicopters - at low altitude, at high altitude - Patriot air defense system. An attempt to shoot down an F-16 scout failed, and the Patriot also managed to shoot down after "bringing to mind"))

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

Yes, the fighter is ineffective against the UAV! The Israelis are working against them by helicopters - at low altitude, at high - Patriot air defense system. An attempt to shoot down an F-16 scout failed, and the Patriot also managed to shoot down after "bringing to mind"))

When using the term UAV, everyone always confuses flies with cutlets. Your reasoning is correct for a small tactical reconnaissance company level, somewhere, somehow, it is also true for loitering ammunition. But the main losses there are for one reason - bayraktars. And this healthy, high-flying bird, an excellent target for air defense.

[Krasnodar]

For air defense - yes, I agree
As for the main losses, it is not clear who they are from. Azerbaijan produces the so-called. Zerbe - Sky Strikers. Also a kamikaze, But there is a reconnaissance and strike Zerbe - 5 (Heron-TP) 14 meters long - this one is also quite vulnerable to air defense, possibly to fighters too

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

As for the main losses, it is not clear who they are from.

Even in the worst-case scenario, exchanging one tank / BMP / infantryman for one drone is better than one missile from a bayraktar. It's still lousy, but I don't believe in Azerbaijan's 500-1000 drones. But 5 thousand missiles for bayraktars are quite hard to believe. If we were fighting at least with large scouts and shock drones, there would have been some chances. And they just throw the guys to the slaughter. Have you seen yesterday's "counterattack"? Infantry! Without technology! Straight lines! Under fire from the air and from MLRS. What for?

[Krasnodar]

But they have no way out - they need to organize a front in the south, cover the Lachin corridor and Shusha. Therefore, I am delaying the Azerbaijanis as much as I can, gaining time.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

But they have no way out - they need to organize a front in the south, cover the Lachin corridor and Shusha. Therefore, I am delaying the Azerbaijanis as much as I can, gaining time.

Time for what? Are some normal fortifications being built? It seems not. And without them, with the total superiority of the enemy in the air, there is nothing to talk about. Gathering a shock group of 30 thousand for a counterattack? It seems not. Is there a chance for outside forces to intervene who need a couple of weeks to get ready? It seems not. There are certainly good chances that something is done from the above, but we just do not know, although in our age of the widespread distribution of such a natural phenomenon as a "woodpecker with a smartphone" it is hard to believe in this. Already the construction of two or three lines of serious bunkers, and the transportation for such thousands of tons of concrete and metal would be caught on camera. However, there is nothing like that, there are only meetings of politicians in Yerevan with each other and talks about a meeting between Aliyev and Pashinyan in Moscow. Taking into account the operational situation, the meaning of all this, as I understand it, is to be able to surrender in such a way that your own people will not be torn, and preferably not kicked out of the chair. And in my opinion, this is precisely why they are now purposefully destroying the army with infantry counterattacks. So that after the war there was no one to present claims to the gentlemen leaders.

[Krasnodar]

I don't think so))
In the mountains, aviation is less effective, easier to camouflage, etc. It's just that this defense still needs to be organized - bring people, distribute them according to positions, etc.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

I don't think so))
In the mountains, aviation is less effective, easier to camouflage, etc. It's just that this defense still needs to be organized - bring people, distribute them according to positions, etc.

Wait and see. I don't think this will last longer than 2 weeks. As for the effectiveness of aviation in the mountains - well, the artillery in the mountains is very much tied to prepared positions. Where on a plain a destroyed weapon can replace a neighboring one, in the mountains the fire pattern is strongly tied to the position, more than 50 meters to the left or right, and the protected pass / valley / height is not shot through due to the folds of the terrain. So the decrease in the effectiveness of aviation will be proportional to the decrease in the effectiveness of artillery and MLRS. I don’t think that something will change dramatically, and the direction to Stepanokert / Shusha remains, and there are not really mountains there.

[Krasnodar]

It will be more difficult to reach with your feet
Technique to use
The ATGM case will go
Machine guns
They lure into the gorges

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

It will be more difficult to reach with your feet
Technique to use
The ATGM case will go
Machine guns
They lure into the gorges

So yes, in Chechnya they drank a lot of blood from us with this tactic. But this is if there are commanders who are capable and, most importantly, who are willing to organize such a defense. Because there are practically no prospects anyway, and there is an option to escape to Armenia / Russia. I do not think that they will stand there to the end. But we will definitely see within the next week - two.

[Krasnodar]

I think there are, and the Armenians, though arrogant towards the enemy people, but the warriors are good and desperate. Even during the Second World War, the losses among the servicemen of Armenian nationality were very high - reckless people. Therefore, Azerbaijanis need to exhaust them to the maximum right now.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

I think there are, and the Armenians, though arrogant towards the enemy people, but the warriors are good and desperate. Even during the Second World War, the losses among the servicemen of Armenian nationality were very high - reckless people. Therefore, Azerbaijanis need to exhaust them to the maximum right now.

If Stepanokert / Shusha are distant, then most likely yes, in the south they will try to plug the hole and level the front, and it will even work out with the tactics you described. But if they surrender, then I think the whole front will crumble. There will be nothing and nothing to hold on to.

[Krasnodar]

And Stepanakert is not included in Aliyev's program at all. The main thing for him is Shusha. Then yes - during the negotiations they can give a special status to Stepanakert and a couple of surrounding villages.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Krasnodar

And Stepanakert is not included in Aliyev's program at all. The main thing for him is Shusha. Then yes - during the negotiations they can give a special status to Stepanakert and a couple of surrounding villages.

There is a distance of 2 kilometers. Who will leave the enemy at his side. Not, if they can, they will knock out Armenians from all large centers, and then maybe they will talk about some kind of autonomy already purely for show ... From an operational point of view, they need to take Stepanokert, and very much. And the loss of the capital is a powerful demoralizing factor.

[Krasnodar]

If it reaches Shushi, there will be no peaceful people there - not in a single city or village.
No - this is Shusha. There, Armenians and Azerbaijanis were hacked to death 100 years ago. Then Khojaly - now the village of Ivanyan. There, in the last war, many Azerbaijani civilians died during the fighting. Stepanakert - insofar as

[SSR]

Quote: Krasnodar

It will be more difficult to reach with your feet
Technique to use
The ATGM case will go
Machine guns
They lure into the gorges

Will they study the experience of the Taliban?
I'm not mocking.

[Krasnodar]

Talibs, Chechens, Hezbollah, some of their own developments

[t-12]

Time for what? Are some normal fortifications being built?

The Armenians had 30 years to build fortifications. It was possible to dig underground cities. And now, under the bombing - how much can you build?

[Vladimir Kurenkov]

Genghis Khan said: if you see that the battle is lost, you should not continue it.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: genisis

The Defense Army of Artsakh does not have its own aviation. As well as techniques for multilevel air defense. And they didn't get the equipment for free. Is that a trophy. And they don't have Iskander either.
And the army of the Republic of Armenia cannot take part in hostilities with its SU-30s, for example, because then the war will begin between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

That is, the infantry of Armenia can, the armored vehicles of Armenia can, the Ministry of Defense of Armenia can OFFICIALLY lead all this and speak out, but they cannot provide air defense. And that's why there are a bunch of videos where he was burned. Off and unmasked as usual.

[genisis]

I wonder how you distinguish a soldier of the Army of the Defense of Artsakh from a soldier of the army of the Republic of Armenia? Both are Armenians, both speak Armenian and both have an Artsakh passport. There are no troops of the Republic of Armenia on the territory of Artsakh. And there is no technology either. It's just that the Defense Army has the same BM-21, D-30, D-20, T-72, BMP and armored personnel carriers, which are used by the army of the Republic of Armenia. Therefore, it is not surprising that they can be confused.
But the Defense Army has no SU-30SM, it was not, and there is no place to appear yet.
As for the air defense of the Republic of Armenia, you may be forgetting, but they have to defend the sky of the Republic of Armenia as well.
Therefore, unfortunately, they did not manage to create a strong anti-aircraft defense in Artsakh.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: genisis

I wonder how you distinguish a soldier of the Army of the Defense of Artsakh from a soldier of the army of the Republic of Armenia? Both are Armenians, both speak Armenian and both have an Artsakh passport. There are no troops of the Republic of Armenia on the territory of Artsakh. And there is no technology either. It's just that the Defense Army has the same BM-21, D-30, D-20, T-72, BMP and armored personnel carriers, which are used by the army of the Republic of Armenia. Therefore, it is not surprising that they can be confused.
But the Defense Army has no SU-30SM, it was not, and there is no place to appear yet.
As for the air defense of the Republic of Armenia, you may be forgetting, but they have to defend the sky of the Republic of Armenia as well.
Therefore, unfortunately, they did not manage to create a strong anti-aircraft defense in Artsakh.

I'll tell you very easily. The Armenian Defense Ministry does not report on the successes and failures of the Artsakh fighter. It does not declare that the enemy has been knocked out of somewhere, or, on the contrary, has come somewhere. It does not publish lists of losses of the Armenian Armed Forces if they are not true? Everyone understands everything, so why kill SO MANY people for the sake of a legal hook? As for me, Armenia simply does not have air defense specialists. As for the last guess, they do not need to defend their heaven, it is enough to officially ask us about it. All the same, without us all their air defense is against Turkey for 15 minutes. But apparently the owners do not allow ...

[genisis]

it's enough to officially ask us about it

In December 2015, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and his Armenian counterpart Seyran Ohanyan signed an agreement to form "United Air Defense System" in the Caucasus. Within the framework of this agreement, it is envisaged that the Russian and Armenian air defense and airspace control means will operate under a single leadership and exchange information in real time.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: genisis

it's enough to officially ask us about it

In December 2015, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and his Armenian counterpart Seyran Ohanyan signed an agreement to form "United Air Defense System" in the Caucasus. Within the framework of this agreement, it is envisaged that the Russian and Armenian air defense and airspace control means will operate under a single leadership and exchange information in real time.

Better. So why then fear for your airspace so much that you don't use your own air defense systems to saturate the front-line zone?

[uranium]

Well, they didn't have Otrk Elbrus either. But they were applied.

[Odysseus]

Quote: oleg123219307

Air defense is excellent at fighting this threat.

They know how, but not great. And in general, now the sword is stronger than the shield in the air.
And what you wrote next is more of a theory. Alas, far from practice. Countries with such an air defense system as you described are only 2-RF and China. And the fight with them is very difficult even for them.
As for Armenia, for example, they have no fighters at all. How will they shoot down? Su-25? We have just received 4 Su-30s, but there is no known readiness and it’s just madness to send their only planes to this meat grinder. Walking, by the way, outside the borders of Armenia.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Odyssey

They know how, but not great. And in general, now the sword is stronger than the shield in the air.

Explain the thought please. I honestly compared the performance characteristics of these "immobile" drones in the expression of some drones with typical missile launchers, the defeat of which has long been worked out, and the UAV is simpler in all respects.

Quote: Odyssey

We have just received 4 Su-30s, but there is no known readiness and it’s just madness to send their only planes to this meat grinder. Walking, by the way, outside the borders of Armenia.

Either I do not understand the term "war" well, or I don’t know the performance characteristics of the Su-30 missiles and radars that allow working from the depths of Armenia, or it’s not Armenian boys who are dying on the ground, but I cannot understand your idea. 4 Su-30 is more than enough to clip the wings of a UAV. And the Turks will turn in, and our base is. And so they saved 4 cars and 8 pilots. At the cost of a couple of three thousand infantrymen. Well, who does not happen ...

[Odysseus]

Quote: oleg123219307

Explain the thought please. I honestly compared the performance characteristics of these "immobile" drones in the expression of some drones with typical missile launchers, the defeat of which has long been worked out, and the UAV is simpler in all respects.

And the CD is a difficult target for fighters. A training ground is one thing, a real war is another. But those UAVs that are used are much more complicated. They run at ultra-low altitudes, the RCS is small. You can shoot down, but you need to know where the target is, when to fly out ... you will not hang in the air for 20 hours like a drone. And there are many drones.
Actually, here you can look at the experience of Syria. With great difficulty they provided the air defense of one base, and then the drones-a la Ali-express (the militants did not use anything else) strained it a lot. The technicians of the Syrian army burned the Bayraktars enough. And no air defense helped. And the fighters did not shoot down anything at all. In Libya, MiG-29 SMTs were able to shoot down a couple. Here are all the successes of the fighters.

Quote: oleg123219307

4 Su-30 is more than enough to clip the wings of a UAV. And the Turks will turn in, and our base is. And so they saved 4 cars and 8 pilots

1) The war is going on in the territory of Azerbaijan (even Armenia did not recognize Karabakh), they cannot just fly there.
2) They received the planes recently. It's not a fact that they have pilots and navigators on them at all.
3) Azerbaijan has quite normal air defense. The chance of loss is very high.
4) 4 Su-30s are absolutely insufficient for the air defense of the area. Armenia uses everything it can. And Needles (of which they have a lot), and Wasps and Shilku with Tunguska and S-300, and even a meager number of Torov. 4 Su-30s would be like an elephant.
5) Armenians are former Soviet citizens as well as Russians. They are no more stupid or worse. And if they fail with air defense, then this is certainly not because they are "not like that".

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Odyssey

And the CD is a difficult target for fighters. A training ground is one thing, a real war is another. But those UAVs that are used are much more complicated. They run at ultra-low altitudes, the RCS is small. You can shoot down, but you need to know where the target is, when to fly out ... you will not hang in the air for 20 hours like a drone. And there are many drones.
Actually, here you can look at the experience of Syria. With great difficulty they provided the air defense of one base, and then the drones-a la Ali-express (the militants did not use anything else) strained it a lot. The technicians of the Syrian army burned the Bayraktars enough. And no air defense helped. And the fighters did not shoot down anything at all. In Libya, MiG-29 SMTs were able to shoot down a couple. Here are all the successes of the fighters.

The biggest damage is anki and bayraktars. There are few of them, they are expensive, they don't fly low, EPR is like a helicopter. Isn't it a goal? Yes, for little things like kamikaze you need a high-quality air defense system and I have already described which one in this discussion. But even if we put it out of our minds and assume that the sky was cleaned at least of large stones, then if you spend 1 UAV on one tank, it's still not the same as what's going on there now. Azerbaijan is not the United States; they will not have enough money for such a quantity of high-precision weapons even with Turkish help.

Quote: Odyssey

1) The war is going on in the territory of Azerbaijan (even Armenia did not recognize Karabakh), they cannot just fly there.
2) They received the planes recently. It's not a fact that they have pilots and navigators on them at all.
3) Azerbaijan has quite normal air defense. The chance of loss is very high.
4) 4 Su-30s are absolutely insufficient for the air defense of the area. Armenia uses everything it can. And Needles (of which they have a lot), and Wasps and Shilku with Tunguska and S-300, and even a meager number of Torov. 4 Su-30s would be like an elephant.
5) Armenians are former Soviet citizens as well as Russians. They are no more stupid or worse. And if they fail with air defense, then this is certainly not because they are "not like that".

1) Why is there? Fly at home, the Su-30 has missiles that hit more than 150 km away. And the non-recognition of the rest of the Armenian army does not interfere with being there.
2) Perhaps.
3) And so 100% loss of hundreds of people every day. Or are some people really much more expensive than others?
4) Against what? Against the little things? Yes. Against expensive and rare bayraktars - quite. About
C300 I didn't understand why they were brought there. The range allows working from Armenia, and the radars are not designed at all for objects with EPR like a fly, there are other systems for this. They have framed it, and for no one knows why.
5) For the last 30 years, there has been no system for preparing the military to work with modern high-precision weapons. They did not see the point, apparently hoping for peace, friendship, chewing gum, our specialists and 102 base. In recent years, of course, they have cooled down with us in relations, but in a year or two you cannot train several thousand air defense specialists. Especially if there was no task. And judging by the "defense", "camouflage" and "combat duty" when you are killed from a UAV flying DIRECT ABOVE, and you don't even scratch a man with binoculars, you can't dig a trench in a straight line, and don't gather in herds under fire, just in case, I personally understand everything about the level of training ...

[Odysseus]

Quote: oleg123219307

1) Why is there? Fly at home, the Su-30 has missiles that hit more than 150 km away. And the non-recognition of the rest of the Armenian army does not interfere with being there.

The Su-30 does not have missiles that hit 150 km. And even on drones. The R-37 is integrated only on the MiG-31BM. And now on the Su-35. And they and the Russian Federation are extremely few. And the rocket under the UAV, and even against the background of the earth, was not sharpened at all. And 4 sides are extremely small for constant duty. Not to mention how he would even see these UAVs against the background of mountains and greenery at such a distance. This is not a B-52.

Quote: oleg123219307

And judging by the "defense", "camouflage" and "combat duty" when you are killed from a UAV flying DIRECT ABOVE, and you do not even scratch a man with binoculars, dig a trench in a straight line, and do not gather in herds under fire, just in case, I personally understand everything about the level of training ...

If you mean me, then I am Russian. From Russia
If in general, then yes, the preparation does not shine (which is only yesterday's epic attack on foot, a la PMA is worth it), but considering that for Armenia this is a "general war" (with the involvement of all who can be), then in general nothing else can be expected do not have to. Somewhere the rules are in place, somewhere not very.
In Russia, in general, now the average training of a reservist and a conscript after a year is no better, and if we simulate a similar land war, in defense against a numerical and technically superior enemy, namely the PRC, we will see the same thing. In terms of air defense, the same Wasps and the first Buki with Tunguska (maximum Tor) under a flurry of UAV attacks. Only there are aircraft and helicopters and the scale is 30 times larger.
As for 4 Su-30s, the General Staff of Armenia does not send them into battle. You can, of course, assume that they are all completely ignorant, but I still don't think so ...

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Odyssey

The Su-30 does not have missiles that hit 150 km. And even on drones. The R-37 is integrated only on the MiG-31BM. And now on the Su-35. And they and the Russian Federation are extremely few. And the rocket under the UAV, and even against the background of the earth, was not sharpened at all. And 4 sides are extremely small for constant duty. Not to mention how he would even see these UAVs against the background of mountains and greenery at such a distance. This is not a B-52.

About the R-37 - why is it so rude? Did I say something about 300 km? The R-27 and R-77 have launch ranges of just over 100 km according to official data. Thus, for which calibers of 300 km were listed for many years. Why is that against the background of the earth? If the vaunted bayraktar or anka descends below 5-6 km, its wasps will be removed. And since this is not the case, he flies at 7-8. And there it is very good to see him, there is no question of any background of the earth. Whether he is unmanned there or not, EPR is not sickly there. Well, I don’t call on company-level scouts to remove from the Su-30, or loitering ammunition the size of a toy. But the main problem is long-flying reconnaissance and strike drones - healthy and high flying due to their performance characteristics - an excellent target. As for 4 planes, which are not enough for constant duty - well, they saved a resource, well done. How many boys killed from the bayraktar would have been alive, if in a month of battles these dryers had taken at least a dozen?

Quote: Odyssey

If you mean me, then I am Russian. From Russia

No, not about you. Just a figurative expression about woodpeckers in the Armenian General Staff.

Quote: Odyssey

If in general, then yes, the preparation does not shine (which is only yesterday's epic attack on foot, a la PMA is worth it), but considering that for Armenia this is a "general war" (with the involvement of everyone who can be) then in general nothing else can be expected do not have to.

Are there reservist recruits engaged in air defense? Hard to believe.

Quote: Odyssey

In Russia, in general, now the average training of a reservist and a conscript after a year is no better, and if we simulate a similar land war, in defense against a numerical and technically superior enemy, namely the PRC, we will see the same thing.

The level of training of the officers is much higher. Personally, I know many, and looking at what is happening they talk a lot and abusively about the tactics, strategy and training of the Armenian junior and middle officers. As for the war with the PRC, I really can't imagine why the Chinese should commit suicide SO extravagantly. Well, who will fight with a million-strong army according to knightly rules with 15 million?

Quote: Odyssey

In terms of air defense, the same Wasps and the first Buki with Tunguska (maximum Tor) under a flurry of UAV attacks.

UAVs, at least of the bayraktar level, will not be used at all in a serious conflict. These are just dumps thrown out. Because Buki, because electronic warfare, which, as we know, allows even vaunted American drones to land, because they have their own aircraft, because militarily normal states have more reliable intelligence systems, for example, satellite. No, drones are purely anti-poser weapons. It is too easy to negate its advantages for an air defense system designed for low-signature missile launchers.

Quote: Odyssey

As for 4 Su-30s, the General Staff of Armenia does not send them into battle. You can, of course, assume that they are all completely ignorant, but I still don't think so ...

No, not ignorant. A more accurate term is traitors. They were issued a directive - to lose. Slowly and bloody, so that Russia either climbed without having rights, because Karabakh was forbidden to recognize it, and received another sanctions just for the elections in which the "red plague" is needed like air, or crap as an ally, which will be further discussed in the information war and used as an excuse to spoil our relations with allies. And the successful work of air defense, as well as some kind of protracted equal conflict, does not fit into this strategy.

[dauria]

Why NO ONE !!! Armenian fighter plane hasn't taken off since the beginning of the war!

You are funny ... Armenia is not at war, this time.
In fact, it is a police operation that bears a faint resemblance even to the military operations of the Second World War on the eastern front. One side has neither aviation, nor air defense, nor even decent artillery. And the second is tied to the fact that in fact he is putting things in order in his house and cannot swing a club, chasing a mosquito in his apartment.
Hence the expanse of all toy devices of the Farman level of the beginning of the century. It is surprising that Budyonny's cavalry carts are not yet available.
In general, you need to take them all by the collar. They will never stop themselves. Once divided into nationalities - this is war forever. Sometimes it will simply subside from powerlessness.

[Gnefredov]

In the beginning, I wanted to smack you intelligently (there is a reason). But you are the only one on TopWar who correctly wrote the name of Semyon Mikhailovich Budyonny (Commander). That's right; two letters НН and Ё.
—
And then they write below the following: Budyonny, Budenlv, Budennkov, Budeny (from Kueva), Budenkov?
—

[Pomeranian]

Quote: oleg123219307

Why NO ONE !!! Armenian fighter plane hasn't taken off since the beginning of the war!

Because de jure Armenia is not at war. The NKR is at war.

[the Saint]

Quote: oleg123219307

Air defense is excellent at fighting this threat.

Quote: oleg123219307

Air defense is excellent at fighting this threat.

Russia really liked to advertise and sell its S-300 and S-400 air defense systems, while claiming the superiority of these systems over their Western counterparts and the best price-quality ratio. Therefore, Moscow is afraid of a scenario in which these systems will show their shortcomings in a combat situation.
In the recent military clashes in Nagorno-Karabakh between Azerbaijan and Armenia, the Armenian S-300 failed to neutralize the destructive attacks of Azerbaijani drones. Israeli-made Harop loitering ammunition strikes Armenian rocket launchers with impunity.

Russia delivered its S-300s to Syria at the end of 2018. And the Russian military still operate these air defense systems. This means that Syria cannot use them to prevent ongoing Israeli strikes. Russia is simply afraid of losing its S-300 systems if activated, justifiably fearing Israeli aviation. Thus, demonstrating to the whole world the complete technological superiority of Israel and the West.

Losses or even significant shortcomings of vaunted Russian systems in combat are bound to negatively impact Russian arms sales, especially when combined with the risk of US sanctions imposed on Russian arms buyers.

[Gnefredov]

Well, you are a very sick person. So swung ...
I'll be short in a way that makes you vomit.
Are you ready?
—
Mortar shelling. Afghan and I am in Grac :)
—
You, sir, are quoting some phrases pulled from the net, and I will tell you:
AN-124 is a handsome man :) This is my plane. My:)
But okay. To the point.
—
Russia delivered its S-300s to Syria at the end of 2018. And the Russian military still operate these air defense systems. This means that Syria cannot use them to prevent
—
What the hell bothers you?

And Armenia * I don't know about the dam and gas pipelines of Azerbaijan.
Capitalism, comrades.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: el Santo

Quote: oleg123219307

Air defense is excellent at fighting this threat.

Quote: oleg123219307

Air defense is excellent at fighting this threat.

Russia really liked to advertise and sell its S-300 and S-400 air defense systems, while claiming the superiority of these systems over their Western counterparts and the best price-quality ratio. Therefore, Moscow is afraid of a scenario in which these systems will show their shortcomings in a combat situation.
In the recent military clashes in Nagorno-Karabakh between Azerbaijan and Armenia, the Armenian S-300 failed to neutralize the destructive attacks of Azerbaijani drones. Israeli-made Harop loitering ammunition strikes Armenian rocket launchers with impunity.

Russia delivered its S-300s to Syria at the end of 2018. And the Russian military still operate these air defense systems. This means that Syria cannot use them to prevent ongoing Israeli strikes. Russia is simply afraid of losing its S-300 systems if activated, justifiably fearing Israeli aviation. Thus, demonstrating to the whole world the complete technological superiority of Israel and the West.

Losses or even significant shortcomings of vaunted Russian systems in combat are bound to negatively impact Russian arms sales, especially when combined with the risk of US sanctions imposed on Russian arms buyers.

Uh-huh. С300 - full G. Especially against UAVs. Do not care that the UAV should not fly up to the STRATEGIC air defense for 100 km! that for this there is a whole complex of things, Buki at the middle distance, Torah and Armor at the near one, Tunguska at the mid-range, and all this works together, with multiple overlapping zones. And then the C300 will do its job - fighters, bombers, OTRK missiles and avaks. Buki of their own - by attack aircraft, large UAVs thrusting into the zone with fighters, Torah - by small and medium-sized UAVs, helicopters thrusting by attack aircraft, Shells / Wasps - by all UAVs in the zone, MLRS shells, loitering ammunition, etc., and Tunguska can plug holes if few. This is how it should look, and this is how it is done here. And there they play with toys and grab them themselves and destroy the equipment. Blaming the C300 for a defeat from a small UAV is the same as calling a tank shit if the crew escaped leaving it on the battlefield.

[76rtbr]

I myself am in ..., yes, you will put 5-6 km along the perimeter at the heights of the military-grade missile, at least so, MANPADS in ambush on the approach !!! mouth .....

[Odysseus]

Quote: Pechkin

All these videos are horror, of course, complete powerlessness. Even the infantry in the line or in the trenches is tin, helpless

Yes, just a massacre. I'm sorry for the guys. And if you are on the defensive and in general you have less strength, then it's generally hard.

Quote: Pechkin

If for the appearance of shock drones in Russia, someone needs to insert a torch into the well ... then it's high time

Yes, now they ran around as if they were on the lookout. And not only on the topic of drones ...
Well, the problem here is that this is a relatively new topic. You can't leave the Soviet legacy here ... But with electronics, a production base, let's say, not very ... And the current "market" motivation of people does not contribute to achieving real results.

[SSR]

Quote: Pechkin

.I don't want to see such videos with Russian soldiers. If for the appearance of drone drones in Russia, someone needs to insert a torch into the apartment.

First, insert yourself.
Stick in and cluck as much as you like.
Ps.
Have the prosralopolymers lured that UAVs have just appeared? In Afghanistan, who bombed the aborigines?
Why didn't you break your little hands then? NKR not recognized by Armenians and whining about pro-salipolymers in the Russian Federation ... Insanity

[cmax]

Quote from S.S.R.

Quote: Pechkin

.I don't want to see such videos with Russian soldiers. If for the appearance of drone drones in Russia, someone needs to insert a torch into the apartment.

First, insert yourself.
Stick in and cluck as much as you like.
Ps.
Have the prosralopolymers lured that UAVs have just appeared? In Afghanistan, who bombed the aborigines?
Why didn't you break your little hands then? NKR not recognized by Armenians and whining about pro-salipolymers in the Russian Federation ... Insanity

Can you tell me "unparalleled" drone drones and barge RF ammunition. People like you, up to 41 years old, also sang, with little blood on a foreign land we will defeat everyone. The Finnish War showed what it means to be unprepared, and 41 years backed up this claim. Now it's better to perebzdet than to be underdog Correctly people wrote about the torch. Let the army build fewer churches and fewer gold monograms on the lapels of the Defense Ministry leadership on the new parade uniform. And if you are not afraid of anything, bring them down to Karabakh, send them to run around with a target or send your children. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes, fools ...

[SSR]

Quote: cmax

And if you are not afraid of anything, bring down to Karabakh,

Am I an Azerbaijani or an Armenian? Send yourself.
The point is that not only "fools" are sitting in the Defense Ministry and they see and analyze the use of UAVs in different regions. Does Iran periodically "drop" different drones? Or were the Israelis trying to intercept the invader?
If you read the materials over the past 10 years, it becomes clear that ours have a way of countering drones and our delay with drones is just to level this "loophole".
What for to make a clone drone with known bugs?

[SSR]

Quote: cmax

People like you sang until 41,

With the same success, I can declare that you are singing - shte died and did not disappear.
Join commentators of the same level.

Reader Comments:

007: And we'll hit them, no problem.

Wanted: Before you put this system into service, we will improve our attack UAVs so you won't be able to see them at all. We will not stop and will continue to go forward and undermine the image of your weapons.

David: Because of us, Russia is no longer able to sell weapons, we have to develop them.

KYA: UAVs and attack UAVs probably have protection against this kind of systems, especially those that are produced only for the Turkish Armed Forces, so there are no problems, besides, the missile range on our UAVs reaches 14 kilometers, so we have all the advantages ...

MRT: We'll be sending rockets out of space soon, don't worry.

salih: Russia, you cannot hit UAVs that leave no traces on the radar, don't strain yourself in vain.

Turkey: God forbid, soon we will sell weapons to Russia.

Scorpio: There is a counter move for every turn, and we will do it.

O¹k⁴k⁵e³sh: And until they work out, Karabakh will join Azerbaijan. The rest is ours. Let the Russians produce, and the Turks beat.

Citizen: The Russians, thanks to the Turks, will sell weapons. They will say to Armenians and others: "Here is a remedy for drone drone." Thanks to us, they will have bread.

maho: It looks like after the "Shell" we will shoot "Flexible".

Yasin: The Koral (Turkish electronic warfare system) will be used, the system will be blinded and it will not be able to do anything.

Hajivat: Turkey needs to create nuclear weapons, threats come from nuclear powers.

[Andrew 40]

We can say that if we were attacked today, in the trenches in the same way enemy drones would mix our guys with the ground. Since we also don't have shock drones. Although our air defense is the best in the world, it will not withstand the massive use of drones. A gross miscalculation of the command on the face. So the torch needs to be sent to the Supreme today, so that tomorrow we won't have this terrible dream.

[dragy52rus]

How do the shock drones we don't have help against enemy drones?

[modun]

Hmm. It's just beating babies

[KARAKURT777]

What Gubatly ?!)) Gubatly taken from the night. Azerbaijanis hit Lachin. Barrel artillery and MLRS ramming everything around.

[Odysseus]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

It looks like it was cut off like that. Without air control, any offensive operation is just the slaughter of your soldiers.

Well, theoretically, if you have a lot of strength, you can attack. Then you will have time to complete the combat mission before you run out of tanks. But this is clearly not the case ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Odyssey

Well, theoretically, if you have a lot of strength, you can attack.

In practice, they have repeatedly washed themselves in blood for such a "theory."

[Rubina]

This is Shushan from Yerevan who writes, and Harutyunyan from Karabakh writes that Zangelan has been surrendered. They don't read each other. So lie that they themselves got confused

[Civil]

Well, in general, the defeat of Russia's ally in the CSTO Armenia in Karabakh is inevitable. Karabakh falls into the Turkish zone of influence. The Armenians will naturally blame Russia for everything. 1941 is straight for Yerevan, Baku has complete air superiority.

[APASUS]

Quote: Civil

Well, in general, the defeat of Russia's ally in the CSTO Armenia in Karabakh is inevitable. Karabakh falls into the Turkish zone of influence.

There is one point here, not everyone in Europe benefits from the strengthening of Turkey. Then France began to stir, the Greeks tensed very seriously

[cmax]

Quote: Civil

Well, in general, the defeat of Russia's ally in the CSTO Armenia in Karabakh is inevitable. Karabakh falls into the Turkish zone of influence. The Armenians will naturally blame Russia for everything. 1941 is straight for Yerevan, Baku has complete air superiority.

You are right, Russia will be blamed anyway. Sample Bulgaria, Poland. How many of ours have formed a head, a quarter of Poland, the former German lands transferred to them by the USSR, do not even remember, they just bark.

[g1v2]

This is her job. If he starts talking about the real situation without embellishment, then desertion will go, the fighting spirit of the reservists will fall below the plinth. So he is broadcasting about boilers and pemogs.
In fact, on the way, the Armenians withdrew the main forces from the south to defend the Lachin corridor and cover the roads to Stepanakert and Shusha. Tch Azeri fell into the operational void and occupy territories and NP, which are covered only by mobile groups.
But in fact, everything is still bad for the Armenians. To change the situation, they need to bring in large forces of troops from Armenia itself. Well, develop counterstrikes. Defense alone will not win them for sure.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: g1v2

In fact, on the way, the Armenians withdrew the main forces from the south to defend the Lachin corridor and cover the roads to Stepanakert and Shusha.

Azerbaijanis imposed border battles on the Armenians (on the border of NKR and Azerbaijan), knocking out a large number of tanks and air defense of Armenians, no troops left anywhere, the troops of the first echelon of Armenians disintegrated and in disarray retreated to the troops of the second echelon, thereby strengthening the latter (everything is like 41st) ...

Tch Azeri fell into the operational void and occupy territories and NP, which are covered only by mobile groups.

The first map shows that their directions of strikes are straightforward and everywhere they occupied territories from the settlement of the settlement. and roads, not steppes and mountain ranges ...
In the North (first map) 3-4 "boilers" may appear from parts of the NKR, so the latter will either leave for Armenia, or leave under UAV attacks deep into the occupied territories ...

But in fact, everything is still bad for the Armenians.

That's for sure. There are no "trump cards" for negotiations, Armenians do not need an occupied territory without a settlement. and the population, having occupied the latter, the Azerbaijanis will create a configuration of troops already against Armenia itself ... cutting off the border of Armenia from Iran and access to the largest source of fresh water in Armenia ...

To change the situation, they need to bring in large forces of troops from Armenia itself. Well, develop counterstrikes. Defense alone will not win them for sure.

The NKR Armed Forces are not capable of this, especially after the NKR was cut off from Armenia, in the event that the Armenian Armed Forces are involved in the occupied territories, the latter may receive blows from Nakhichevan and from the bridgehead from the South (first map) ...
After the end of the conflict, Turkey's WBs will appear in Nakhichevan, incl. in order to neutralize the threat of the 102nd WB of the RF Armed Forces, and Azerbaijan will keep its Armed Forces near the borders of Armenia in the North and South ...
Armenia is now not capable of delivering a military blow to Azerbaijan, only an economic one, hitting the oil fields of Azerbaijan and pipelines passing through it ...
The 102nd WB of the Russian Federation is already an "armed prisoner of war camp", and after the end the situation will only get worse for us ...

[genisis]

Well, to the fullness you blow the alarm.
Let's take a better look at a more informative map.

If the southern regions: Jebrail, Fizuli, Zangelan are not a steppe, then what is it?
Now let's look at the "successes" of Azerbaijanis in the north and east of the NKR.
They are equal to zero. That is, in 3 weeks the village of Talysh was taken in the north. On 28/09/2020 Azerbaijanis proudly reported our Omar pass, our Murovsky ridge, we have fire control over the Vardenis-Karvachar-Stepanakert road. Maybe this will be news to you, but besides the Goris-Lachin-Stepanakert road, there is also the “South Gate” in Artsakh. So today there are no Azerbaijani Armed Forces in the Mravsky Mountains. The south gate is fully operational. But winter is approaching. In January 1994, 701 brigades of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces tried to overcome the Omar Pass. There is a user here from Azerbaijan named Alibek. Ask him how many thousands of soldiers entered and whether at least a couple of hundred came out? To pull up the rear at such heights at subzero temperatures, and through the narrow neck of the Omar pass, is not a pleasant pleasure.
Now let's discuss Azerbaijan's progress along the Martakert-Martuni line. How many millimeters did the Azerbaijani Armed Forces penetrate in the central direction?
And, finally, a map of the distance that the Azerbaijani Armed Forces will need to cover along the Akari River in order to get from Zangelan to Berdzor (Lachin).
If you look at it carefully, you will notice that shortly before Berdzor the road will pass a few centimeters from the state border of the Republic of Armenia

Therefore, I would not rush with your forecast on Azerbaijan's attack on the Armenian Zangezur and the exit to the largest source of fresh water.
The Askars made their way for 30 km across the steppe for a month. With all their Bayraktars and other wunderwalks.
Let's see how long they will try to climb the mountains.
The weather will deteriorate, the heights will rise, the drones will fly at the heights available to Arrows and Eagles. You know why in the 1991-1994 war. have stopped using aviation in the conflict? Because it fell often.
International pressure on Azerbaijan and Turkey will only grow.
Further advancement of the Azerbaijanis will be associated with a direct clash of infantry units.
I think that the Russian proverb will once again prove the depth of folk wisdom: "It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines."

[modun]

And they will not climb mountains. An encirclement and unpunished expulsion from the air are being prepared until the complete surrender of the encircled and with subsequent admission (without weapons) along the corridor to Armenia

[g1v2]

No Turkish base will appear in Azerbaijan. If it were possible, it would have already appeared. Nobody will let her go there. And Aliyev himself hardly intends to lie under the Turks. His image as a Turkish puppet is propaganda. He has his own interests. He needs to become the leader who won back the lands lost by his predecessors. It can - and his authority and power will become unshakable for a long time. Even if not, then the already repulsed will be enough for some time for victorious reports.
I disagree about the defeated Armenian troops. They suffered serious losses in equipment and were defeated in the south, but so far they are combat-ready. There was no escape. And it should be understood that the Azeri army is fighting primarily against the army of Armenia, although not against its main forces. And the main forces have not yet entered the battle. It's too early to wave your caps. The main thing is yet to come.
Aliyev is not even considering the option of attacking Armenia itself. He is extremely careful. No wonder he constantly gives interviews to the Russian media and promotes the thesis that he is fighting against the Soros puppet and against the pro-Western government of Armenia. Plus, his good Russian language also looks advantageous against the background of Pashinyan. Plus - he is still the son of his father, who was part of the Soviet imperial elite. In general, he is not a stranger and his connections in Moscow are much cooler than those of Pashinyans.
My opinion is that he will be allowed to defeat the Armenians and recapture the NKR. Simply because this conflict hinders us and the Azeri in our relationship. Plus, Erdogan needs something so that he can call a peremogy and extinguish passions at home a little. And we do not want the Sultan to be overthrown at all. Against this background, the Turks are evacuating 4 of their defenders on the surrounded part of Idlib. I would not be surprised if soon after Karabakh the offensive of the Syrian army begins in Idlib with the aim of recapturing M4. The Sultan needs something to shut up the electorate.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: g1v2

No Turkish base will appear in Azerbaijan. If it were possible, it would have already appeared. Nobody will let her go there.

Who won't let you in? Residents of Nakhichevan or Georgia? Turkey has a common border with Azerbaijan, unlike the Russian Federation with Armenia ...

[g1v2]

Russia and Azerbaijan will not be allowed. Neither one nor the other needs it there. Aliyev badly needs Turkish help to reconquer Karabakh, but then the Turks will only interfere with him. Turks tried not only to put Azeris under themselves. They tried to pull it off in almost all the republics of the SA. And everyone took money from them, smiled, but they were in no hurry to bend under them.
The idea of ​​Pan-Turkism is similar to our old idea of ​​Pan-Slavism. We promoted it without realizing that the rest of the Slavic peoples did not smile at all under us. But taking money and protection, paying with ostentatious love and flattery, is always welcome. The Turks have the same situation with the Turkic peoples.

[Rubina]

How tired I am! "Azerbaijan's blitzkrieg failed"; "Askers made their way for 30 km in a month." Let's take a look at the numbers. In less than a month, the Azerbaijani army in the mountainous area conquered about 15% of the territory of Karabakh and the adjacent 7 regions. Remember the number? fifteen%.
On November 19, 1942, the Nazis occupied the maximum territory of the USSR - 1 thousand square kilometers. On November 795, 7, all territories were liberated. In total, very roughly over 1944 months on average, the Soviet army liberated 23% of its occupied territory. And, for the most part, flat terrain. Once again -4.5% per month.
Question: is the Azerbaijani army fighting badly?

[g1v2]

Do you want to be honest? Blitzkrieg, of course, was not planned. The fortification in the mountains, which was built for 25 years, cannot be opened in a couple of weeks. Kobani's example in Syria is indicative. Stories about the disrupted blitzkrieg are Armenian propaganda. There is a planned offensive. Quite normal.
In general, according to the database, you can say a thing that will offend you. My IMHO. Azerbaijani soldiers are much worse than Armenian ones and fight weakly on their own, but the Azerbaijani General Staff fights competently, unlike the Armenian. That is, all attempts to counterattack and cut off are calculated and stopped. Maybe they themselves move their brains, maybe there are advisers.
Well, and most importantly - ALIEV PREPARED WELL FOR WAR. And at all levels. He waited for a window of opportunity, prepared the ground diplomatically. The mere fact that the Azerbaijani army was simultaneously pumped up with equipment by its competitors - Turkey, Israel and Russia, says a lot; it was well stocked with weapons and prepared technologically. His general staff drew up a plan for a new generation of war. I have established coordination with the Turks. Knowing the fighting qualities of the Azerbaijani infantry, through the Turks he scored Syrian cannon fodder in order to reduce the losses of his own soldiers in the first most difficult stages of the war. Again, he competently conducts propaganda work. In general, if a miracle does not happen, then if not all, then most of the NKR he will win back.

[Artavazdych]

But even here the source of the photo is the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan and a certain Rasul Hasan. Here the question is, who likes what more.
I don’t believe that this is the situation in the north, I have a different picture. In the south, yes, it seems. Which confirms my today's comments about the breakthrough to Nakhichevan

[Oquzyurd]

The Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan presented a photo and video of another military equipment left by the enemy on the battlefield while fleeing, as well as destroyed by units of the Azerbaijani army.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udo2btoa-W0&feature=emb_logo

[Babermetis]

The goals of the war are clear!
Azerbaijan seeks to move its Security Forces to the state border established by international law.
Armenia and its security forces are trying to prevent this.

Both sides could compromise and establish a new state border themselves. Young people are dying for the sake of by no means densely populated territories, and not entirely economically profitable, instead of simply settling and populating these lands with self-sufficient people.

Sucks is shorter.

[Machito]

The war is dragging on, losses are growing. Azerbaijan wants to take revenge and return its lands. Armenia does not want to give back what has been wrung out How will it end? Who knows. Truce does not work, opponents want victory. Want is not harmful. As long as the conflict is limited, the parties do not cross the red lines, but everything can change. In case of further success, the conflict could escalate into a full-scale war with strikes on cities and villages, the Armenian nuclear power plant, Azerbaijani oil and gas pipelines and dams. Then the civilian casualties will be in the tens of thousands. And then, having washed in blood, the opponents will conclude a truce and will be preparing for a new war. Only the Russian Empire and the USSR managed to untie this knot and temporarily end the centuries-old war. So, the only solution, it seems to me, may be the Azerbaijan-Armenian Confederation

[paul3390]

Armenia may not want to, but does Pashinyan not want to? Maybe it’s advantageous for the shrub to drain Karabakh, getting rid of the problem, and all the blame can be clearly shifted to Russia, which did not fight instead of the Armenians.

[Avior]

The new border means the exchange of territories.
Armenia has nothing to offer Azerbaijan in exchange for Karabakh, it is practically a mono-ethnic country.

[Krasnodar]

A piece of territory to Nakhichevan

[Avior]

A piece of territory before Nakhichevan is to cut off Armenia's access to Iran.
And it will have neighbors - Georgia, Azerbaijan and Turkey.
The piece that needs to be given away is inhabited by Armenians, and it will not be small.
They need to be relocated.
Isn't it easier to resettle from Karabakh to Armenia?

[Krasnodar]

Of course it's easier! The question is - then what are they fighting for?

[Avior]

At one time, the Armenians had great opportunities, and took advantage of them in the 90s.
But the potential of Azerbaijan is initially noticeably higher, and sooner or later it had to be realized one way or another, which we are now seeing.
Armenia needed to negotiate a broad autonomy for Karabakh with guarantees, but they missed the moment when they could agree on favorable terms for themselves.
And now Azerbaijan has restored its potential, and is realizing it in Karabakh, and the conditions for solving the problem will not be so convenient for Armenians.
Now there is a set of starting positions for renegotiations - the greater the initial conditions, the higher the requirements and the stronger the position in the negotiations.

[Krasnodar]

This is all clear)). The question is, at what cost will Armenia be able to preserve at least part of the NKR?

[Avior]

I don't think so.
We can talk about autonomy within Azerbaijan at best.
And the sooner this is understood in Armenia, the greater the rights of autonomy can be said. Ideally, Armenia should have done this when it had a significant military advantage over Azerbaijan, but the train left.
But Armenia may well try to agree on a corridor to Karabakh in exchange for a similar one to Nakhichevan.
But here, too, there is a nuance - Nakhichevan borders on friendly Turkey, and Karabakh is inside Azerbaijan.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Avior

But Armenia may well try to agree on a corridor to Karabakh in exchange for a similar one to Nakhichevan

Interesting idea. Armenia has no trump cards, Lachin will be blocked day by day. This is a slow strangulation of Karabakh.
And then they can bargain for the Lachin corridor and the autonomy of Karabakh.

[Oquzyurd]

"A piece of territory before Nakhichevan is to cut off Armenia's access to Iran." This is a technical question. It is possible to simultaneously leave the gate of Armenia to Iran, and at the same time give a corridor to Azerbaijan to the Nakhchivan territory. The question is, will the big countries that have created the Armenian tampon want this?

[Avior]

The point is that in response to the recognition of Karabakh as Armenian, Azerbaijan will receive a similar part of the territory of Armenia. I believe that this is impossible, the Armenians will not agree to this, there are no such parts in Armenia that they could offer Azerbaijan for Karabakh

[Oquzyurd]

Then we will have nothing to offer. Tomatoes and watermelons can be presented, but the land is not, sorry)

[Krasnodar]

In theory, everything is there. The question is about the will of political leaders and the vector of development of Armenia. If it wants to become a developed country with a powerful IT sector of the economy, as well as, say, Las Vegas and Luxembourg for Persians, Turks, Azerbaijanis and Georgians, thus getting into the top thirty countries in HDI is one thing. If it wants to remain a Third World country with the only national consensus in the form of Artsakh, that is different.

[Grits]

Quote: Avior

there are no such parts in Armenia that they could offer Azerbaijan for Karabakh

no territories. but there is a border with Iran. The option is like this - Karabakh - entirely of Armenia. territories around Karabakh - to return completely to Azerbaijan. The Armenians will have to make serious concessions and give up part of their territory for the corridor to Nakhichenvan. For Azerbaijan, such an exchange is access to its cut off territory and to the border with Turkey. It costs a lot. In exchange, you can give the Lachin corridor to the Armenians. Only mutual compromises can solve something.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Oquzyurd

"A piece of territory before Nakhichevan is to cut off Armenia's access to Iran."

You can cut it off in a different way. Taking part of the territory of Iran, where the Turks live compactly. The United States inflicts air strikes on Iran, the Turkish-Azerbaijani coalition occupies the territory.

[Oquzyurd]

This is a gamble that can bring misfortune to the entire region, from multimillion refugees to multimillion victims. I am not a supporter of the dismemberment of Iran, I am a supporter of the internal transformation of this country into a normal one.

[OgnennyiKotik]

I completely agree. Just as a variant of theoretical further development. Turkey cannot move to Central Asia without a normal transport corridor. Georgia, of course, will not abandon transport corridors for a certain fee, but still.
On the other hand, Turkey now needs to digest all the victories this year. They need to put up with the United States.

[Oquzyurd]

The Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan presented a photo and video of another military equipment left by the enemy on the battlefield while fleeing, as well as destroyed by units of the Azerbaijani army.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udo2btoa-W0&feature=emb_logo

[Grits]

Quote: Krasnodar

A piece of territory to Nakhichevan

To cut yourself off from the border with Iran? The Armenians will never agree to this.

[Krasnodar]

The question is where this piece will be, how will they agree to use it, etc. In addition, Karabakh today is almost the only national consensus in Armenia.

[g1v2]

The parties are fighting for what they consider to be theirs, but they must fight for their land. It's another matter that this war can become much more destructive if Armenia nevertheless decides not to merge the NKR and fit in in full. Iskanders can reach not only Ganja, and Azerbaijan has nothing to fight back from them. Strikes on power plants, dams, large enterprises, compressor stations, etc. will lead to irreparable losses for Azerbaijan. Only then, even theoretically, Armenia will no longer be able to turn to the CSTO. And the objects of Armenians on the territory of Armenia will become the legal target of Azeri drones.
So far, all parties are in fact merging the NKR. Let's look at the policy of Azerbaijan, if it can still recapture these lands. In this case, I would not rule out his joining the CSTO.

[Yaro Polk]

Appetite comes with eating.
Are they going to take Yerevan?)

[Rubina]

Why do we need Yerevan? We don’t have so much money, we need to restore Karabakh and the destroyed Ganja with the front-line zone.

[Pavlos Melas]

Appetite comes with eating.
Are they going to take Yerevan?)

But why do they need Yerevan, if they risk attacking Armenia accusing it of aggression, it is easier to break through a corridor to Nakhichevan. Armenians will be cut off from the Iranian border and then everyone, Armenia will never pose a threat.

[Oquzyurd]

No, Azerbaijan is fighting on its lands and will not go beyond the limits. It will not do anything outside the law, outside its territories. Only liberation of its lawful territories from occupation, nothing more.

[Cottager452]

Has the knife already sharpened, lawyer?

[Oquzyurd]

Why do I need a knife, I have Bayraktar TV2, beating at those who have weapons in their hands and shooting at Azerbaijanis .. The civilian population of Karabakh are citizens of Azerbaijan. We take care of our citizens, and we will free them from the Armenian Nazis.

[Yaro Polk]

I remember how the Turks (who are helping you now) genocide the Armenians, and you call them Nazis, maybe on the contrary, the Turks, by the way, worked for the Nazis as far as I remember.

[Oquzyurd]

"I remember" "as far as I remember" You entered and apparently still live in a world of deception, on this topic, which was fired up since 1953-54, after Turkey entered NATO (1952), in revenge on them. A long topic, but a hint I gave it to you. Then if you are interested, you yourself can continue to study this topic.

[Yaro Polk]

There are a lot of archived photos, you won't be smeared.

[Artavazdych]

No, they are cutting a corridor to Nakhichevan.

[izGOI]

Armenia is like Galicia, you can take it, but then it will poison anyone who takes it.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Thanks for the digest and it’s very good that you included the map. And then the north-south is not always clear from the settlements, where he has never been.

[svoit]

Well, judging by the map, it is possible that the NRC will create such a small bowler.
Now is the time for this, as in a week there may be a shortage of ammunition

[Oquzyurd]

There is an open area, and the command took everything into account. And, these birds are waiting for the bowlers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg51uxE6Yoo&feature=emb_logo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UarvIUdHtSc&feature=emb_logo

[the finish]

already. Zangelan was recaptured again and the group was surrounded there.

[DAQ]

The question is whether the boiler can be closed? Even if they can, the living force of the RA will always be able to retreat to Iran. They will lose their weapons, but they will save the soldiers. Nobody cares about the diplomatic scandal.
But on the other hand, it is also not safe to close the boiler in such a situation, you can get into the boiler yourself, and it is not a matter that you will be able to escape to Iran, Azerbaijan holds the border in "that" place.
Former President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan was the Minister of Defense in the 90s. Aliyev spoke of him as a war criminal who led the massacre in the 90s.
Pashinyan is a journalist, he cleaned up the personnel in the military department, honestly I don’t know who he appointed there. Under Sargsan, the leadership of the Defense Ministry and the General Staff included people with combat experience. Well, I don't know anything about the current ones. The new command can use Facebook. I don't know anything else about them.

[Deniso]

What do they need to create a bowler hat they need Marshal Baghramyan!

[Mouse]

Long-playing song ...

[novel66]

the main thing is not to change the batteries, otherwise this music will be eternal .. Vasya

[Mouse]

Our you with a brush!
"Energizer"

[Metallurgist]

Zangelan was taken and the Armenians at the same time say that the enemy is retreating in the area of ​​the Khudaferin hydroelectric complex, which is located much to the east. Someone is clearly lying, I suspect who. I could never understand what is the benefit of lying to its own citizens. I remember Comic Ali in Iraq during the 2003 war, when he broadcast about the defeat of the enemy in the minutes when the amer tanks entered Baghdad.

[Revolver]

Eg, the Armenians have forgotten Lenin's grandfather and his teachings. But he also wrote "Learning military science in a real way." The result, as they say, is obvious.

[Cottager452]

Yes, grandfather Lenin taught so that until now no one can rule.

[Alexander Kopychev]

Grandfather Lenin taught me to be friends with everyone with whom fate brought me together, teach me something else, try.

[Cottager452]

I never remember that with Armenians or Azerbaijanis, and indeed with friends, we raised a toast to this grandfather.

[Alexander Kopychev]

Yes, I, too, somehow do not remember that I raised a toast for him, but with the Armenians and Azerbaijanis they raised toasts for everything good thanks to him.

[Arthur]

Amyans shot down a Turkish drone (bayraktar)!

[poquello]

Quote: Artura

Amyans shot down a Turkish drone (bayraktar)!

they shot them down before, this one fell on their territory

[Vadim237]

And before that, this one drone destroyed dozens of pieces of equipment of Armenians and more than a dozen more personnel killed and maimed.

[genisis]

Yeah. He also managed to keep the rockets on the suspension. )

[Arthur]

Come on, you probably like to watch Azerbaijani cartoons ??))))))) Their chief also said today that he destroyed 2 Armenian missile systems Yars)))))))) Continue to believe the mustachioed storyteller))))))

[VyacheSeymour]

Amyans shot down a Turkish drone (bayraktar)!

Oooooo, no ... - this is far from Bayraktar, - the dimensions are not the same, as well as the toy chassis .... Downed only reconnaissance IAI Searcher II, - aka "Outpost" ...

[genisis]

Since when have reconnaissance UAVs carried rockets on a sling?

[Rriv]

easier to break through the corridor to Nakhichevan

... through the outposts of the Meghri detachment of the SS FSB of the Russian Federation?

[Timofey Charuta]

An interesting video, a parade of Azerbaijani troops 2 years ago - the main Turkish parade was received.
Even then, their UAVs were shown solemnly and with great respect, So now there is nothing new ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQAJRPK4qGc

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Timofey Charuta

An interesting video, a parade of Azerbaijani troops 2 years ago - the main Turkish parade was received.
Even then, their UAVs were shown solemnly and with great respect, So now there is nothing new ...

So back in 2016, in the same places, Azerbaijanis knocked out equipment in the same way using long-range ATGM Spike-LR and UAVs Harop and Searcher. But then the conflict lasted only 4 days, which, the PMSM, created the illusion on the Armenian side that the defense was strong and nothing needed to be changed, and that the knocked-out equipment was not a systemic flaw, but the result of "individual shortcomings."
As a result, over the past 4 years, the Armenian side did not draw any conclusions from that conflict.

[Homeland]

In 3 weeks, 3 regional centers around and 1 (Hadrut) in Karabakh itself were liberated. The Armenians have not yet woken up. They will wake up when they lose Lachin or Shusha.

[CommanderDIVA]

For the Armenians, the only option to stop the enemy is to enter into battle already units of the Armenian Armed Forces, with an emphasis on actions in the mountains, the organization of blockages on mountain roads, maximum mining, maneuvering with artillery and as much as possible stalling, hoping for Russia, the Azerbaijanis and the Turks, on the contrary, to maximize the pace of the offensive , primarily in the southern direction, followed by a turn along the border with Armenia to the north and the encirclement of the NCO army

[Vadim237]

"For the Armenians, the only option to stop the enemy is to bring into battle already units of the Armed Forces" They have been introducing them for a long time - as a result, they lose everything and everyone that they brought in.

[icant007]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

For the Armenians, the only option to stop the enemy is to bring the units of the Armenian Armed Forces into battle,

The armed forces of Armenia and Karabakh are one whole. And the name "NKR Defense Army" is nothing more than a sign.

[CommanderDIVA]

If this is so, then so much the worse for Armenia, the battles in Karabakh show the state of the Armenian armed forces, in this case, the General Staff of the Armenian Armed Forces needs to involve military experts from outside, because there are people with combat experience and not indifferent to the events.

[Operator]

Armenian Karabakh - everything. Pashinyan was brought to power by the Americans precisely for this.

[Otshelnik]

https://youtu.be/SFGGXIphq8Y

[Alexander Kopychev]

It doesn't matter to me anymore who will force whom to reconciliation, if only forced !!!!!!!!!! And more personal - 30 years ago I had a half-breed Azerbaijani friend. I, Russian, adored, hated Armenians. And I remember Sergeant Aloyan - a great guy, Private Sargsyan - a funny guy, Sergeant Mamedov - my friend. How cool you mixed everything, Lord !!!

[Alexander Kopychev]

AND IS THIS NOT OUR COMMON INTEREST?

[Gunter prereen]

First I read ... Zanzibar.))))))))

[Konnick]

The Azerbaijani army is advancing not from there, from Rostov-on-Don it is necessary to advance to the south.

[Buka001]

The Russian brothers will clean it up themselves, fortunately, they began to see clearly from the Armenian heresy, but it would be better to start with TV

[Gunther]

Quote: Pechkin

...... But the military air defense must be able to deal with this threat.

how about the application of increased power by ammunition to the capital of the aggressor country, which launched unmanned aerial vehicles, not even at ground control points, but in the capital?
To make the desire disappear ... to launch drones
Of course, I'm not talking about the baku-yerevan swar, I'm about our military doctrine.

[Alexander Sharapov]

Read more about the events at Zangelan https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/

[Stock]

Quote: Krasnodar

A piece of territory to Nakhichevan

The Armenians will not agree to this. This means cutting off Armenia from the border with Iran, that is, the blockade is complete from 3 sides.

[Krasnodar]

The question is how they will agree.

[Gunther]

Quote: Civil

Well, in general, the defeat of Russia's ally in the CSTO Armenia in Karabakh is inevitable. Karabakh falls into the Turkish zone of influence. The Armenians will naturally blame Russia for everything. 1941 is straight for Yerevan, Baku has complete air superiority.

and what happened in 1945 with those who had air superiority in 1941?

[Krasnodar]

In 1943, some Anglo-Saxons began to effectively bomb them, so half of the fighter aircraft from the Eastern Front had to be transferred to defend the Reich!

[Camrad]

Well, yes, well, yes))) And until 1943, while some naglo-Saxons were hiding in minks, it was simply not luck, probably General Frost, poor logistics, etc.

[Krasnodar]

In 1940 the Naglo-Saxons won the "Battle of Britain" against Hitler
And until 1943, Hitler grabbed more territory than he could swallow and stumbled upon an unexpected tower resistance of the country with such a mobilization resource that he did not calculate and did not expect

[Konnick]

Even to start Operation Uranus to encircle the Germans at Stalingrad, Stalin did not allow until air superiority was achieved. Otherwise it would have been like near Demyansk, the Germans set up an air bridge and quietly sat surrounded. Azerbaijan, having won air supremacy, destroying the Armenian air defense in Karabakh, will be able to continue the offensive as planned, without resorting to contact battles, but simply bypassing and squeezing out the Armenian army.

[Rubina]

Aha, Anglo-Saxons hid in minks up to 43 g
Air Battle of Britain - won
Battle of Alamein for Middle East oil - won
Battle of the Atlantic to transport the lend-lease to the USSR and England - won
Battle of Millway - distracted Japan and prevented an attack on the USSR from the East - won

[gsev]

Quote: Krasnodar

They were effectively bombed in 1943 by some Anglo-Saxons,

The Anglo-Saxons began to bomb effectively after the landing in France. Before that, the cost of the bombing cost the Anglo-Saxons several times more than the losses of the Germans. And from 1939 to 1942, the raids on Europe were repelled simply by the insignificant forces of German aviation. It is another matter that the Red Army began to receive gasoline from the Allies from about 1942, in the transportation of which about 10 railway tanks were simultaneously involved. And since 000, the aviation of the Red Army began to fly at higher, rather than economical, speeds, and its graduates of flight schools began to have a number of training flight hours, which allowed the most talented cadets to get out of the suicide bomber category.

[Krasnodar]

Allied bombings became effective in May 1943, starting with the destruction of the Ruhr Dam and the bombing of Hamburg in July of the same year (approximately 45 civilians).

[gsev]

Quote: Krasnodar

starting with the destruction of the Ruhr Dam and the bombing of Hamburg in July of the same year

Well, they flooded a little German factories, burned German nurses, invalids, old men and old women who could not go down to the basements. Great Britain could not aim at bombing the Germans in Germany during the day without effective fighter cover, otherwise its bomber aviation would have been exterminated by the Nazis.And for this it was necessary to create and maintain an aviation group in Great Britain that required huge resources, with which the Red Army would make the Germans a trio of Stalingrad, and Chiang Kai-shek would be able to begin the liberation of Burma and China and the blockade of Japanese shipping in the South China Sea. And when the air force crushes the enemy's mobile forces and the allied army takes control of important industrial centers of France, it justifies the costs of maintaining bomber aircraft.

[Krasnodar]

About babies and old women -. The Germans began to transfer aviation from the eastern front in 1943 precisely because of the mass death of their peacekeepers. As for the side-by-side bombing - everything is correct, so they bombed at night and Harris spoke in favor of bombing cities. About "having which" - yes it is not clear. They were strategists. Also do not forget that the quality of the training of the British pilots who won the Battle of England differed for the better from that of the Red Army and the Kuomintang. Plus the planning was ok.

[gsev]

Quote: Krasnodar

quality of English pilot training

In the Battle of England, the British in victory was accompanied by a geographical factor. Roughly the same thing happened when the Germans tried to bomb Moscow in 1941. The General Staff assessed the losses of the Soviet air defense system during the defense of Moscow from air raids as negligible. In 1940 the British and French air forces in France were defeated. In the USA, after 25 raids on Germany, the crews were replaced. In Great Britain and the USSR they fought either to victory or to death. It would be more correct to speak of the small number of flight training flights of flight school graduates in the Red Army.

[Krasnodar]

Voo - I'm talking about this and only about this And the Kuomintang has the same bullshit

[Stock]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

For the Armenians, the only option to stop the enemy is to enter into battle already units of the Armenian Armed Forces, with an emphasis on actions in the mountains, the organization of blockages on mountain roads, maximum mining, maneuvering with artillery and as much as possible stalling, hoping for Russia, the Azerbaijanis and the Turks, on the contrary, to maximize the pace of the offensive , primarily in the southern direction, followed by a turn along the border with Armenia to the north and the encirclement of the NCO army

Do you really think that Armenia is not at war there with all its parts? And why, then, at the beginning of the conflict, they still introduced full mobilization and banned the departure of men of mobilization age?

[Victorm]

Quote: Yalquzaq

a little more encirclement in Armenian

The finale is noteworthy - the destruction of the operating Tor-M2KM air defense system. Even such an automated system turned out to be useless iron in the hands of the Armenians, the prime minister had just monkeyed and took a selfie.

[Glory Ponomarev]

The quality of the video is certainly bad, but still I did not see Thor there, the next, unfortunate Wasp AKM, no more.

[Andrey Mironov_rus]

In the event that the Azerbaijanis go to the borders of Armenia in the south, and further move north to the Lachin corridor, will the Armenians strike at the flank of the Azerbaijanis with their regular army from their territory?

[Krasnodar]

To be deprived of Russia's assistance in the event of Azerbaijan's strike directly on their territory

[Odysseus]

Quote: Andrey Mironov_rus

In the event that the Azerbaijanis go to the borders of Armenia in the south, and further move north to the Lachin corridor, will the Armenians strike at the flank of the Azerbaijanis with their regular army from their territory?

Their regular army is already at war. And, of course, they will strike. Therefore, most likely, Azerbaijan will not go directly to Lachin, but limit itself to fire control over the northern road, going up the Askari. And then it can hit from Hadrut.
Although here you need to know how much the opponents have there.

[Michael HORNET]

Quite the opposite - a great opportunity to provoke Armenia into direct aggression, which will be easily recorded from its territory.

[Pomeranian]

The Armenians poured down. This is what a shortage of personnel means.

[Gnefredov]

Right. The crew should be trained for weeks, months and even / years.
-
Iron is such a thing that it can be replaced.
Crew? Never.

[Old Bolshevik]

Soros defeated Armenia.

[Gnefredov]

Hello.
As an operator of "OSA" I can report the following.
1) In general, of course, drones are a difficult target for a system tuned to helicopters.
But, if I were in our "Mortal" (WASP), I would certainly have blown everything that flies in the air to the Devil's Mother.
After all, it was correctly noted above, it all depends on the crew.
2) Generally funny. Azerbians quarreled with Armenians. Yes, they are being drained since the construction of the Egmpet pyramids. Two people, two ejected (how you meet, so cool!

[gsev]

Quote: Gnefredov

But, if I were in our "Mortal" (WASP), I would certainly have blown everything that flies in the air to the Devil's Mother.

The enemy would use a high-altitude drone with long-range ammunition against short-range air defense, and against long-range air defense a massive all-round raid of cheap vehicles, each of which would cost an order of magnitude less than an anti-aircraft missile. Having made a breach in the air defense line, an attack is organized from different angles of the next section. Or a 400-gm plastic drone correcting long-range artillery fire. For Armenians, the main problem is the massive use of Turkish drones. If the aircraft engine, the design of the aircraft, its control system, the technology of all this have been designed and debugged, then the mass copying of another hundred drones is faster than preparing one calculation for an air defense installation.

[Victorm]

Quote: Pomoryanin

The Armenians poured down. This is what a shortage of personnel means.

I would not say. The number of their army is more than sufficient, therefore, the talk that the Armenians rained down was premature. Now, on the contrary, the most difficult phase will be in combat and the most dangerous. Armenia will beat you with art from its territory, they are already digging along the border with Azerbaijan in the south. Azerbaijan will begin to respond, taking into account the distances and the attempts of the Armenians to pull Russia up through constant provocations, the question is how long the Separate Army in the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic will remain out of the fighting. If a Separate Army in the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic of Azerbaijan enters into battles, then it will rush ... Armenia will be cut off from Iran having an exit only through Georgia, the Turkish-Armenian border is clearly not counted, plus Yerevan can be poured from the territory of the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic in response to blows on Ganja, so it won't seem like a little.
So far, experts are right who consider everything that happens to be a Russian-Turkish match, but at any moment the Armenians can throw out such a knee that Baku will respond, or they will arrange a provocation and Russia will get involved, and then Turkey. Now all the meetings in Yerevan, rather not how to fight, but how to make others fight for the Armenians, and this is achieved only through intrigues and provocations. Let's see what we have thought up and come up with.

[Old Kaa]

The thin isthmus between Turkey and Nakhichevan is easily controlled from the territory of Armenia. There are Russian border guards at the border.

[Selevc]

Quote: Old Kaa

The thin isthmus between Turkey and Nakhichevan is easily controlled from the territory of Armenia. There are Russian border guards at the border.

How Iran "loves" Armenia can be seen even on the Google map !!! There is no direct highway from Iran to Armenia !!! And everyone is going by some roundabout ways - along the Azerbaijani borders ... So it is not easy to bring aid to the Armenians through Iran on the ground, even based on the road features of the region and even in peacetime ...
How Azerbaijan and Turkey love each other, again, can be seen on the same Google map - a highway has been built across a tiny section of the joint Turkish-Azerbaijani border !!!

[Victorm]

Quote: genisis

Today near Goris

They quickly got drunk and tried to hide behind Russian tricolors, but alas ... About ZhyPySy forgot , well, a bullet in the forehead as an assessment of ingenuity ...

Quote: Oquzyurd

This is a gamble that can bring misfortune to the entire region, from multimillion refugees to multimillion victims. I am not a supporter of the dismemberment of Iran, I am a supporter of the internal transformation of this country into a normal one.

If you are not a supporter of the "dismemberment of Iran" then how do I understand a supporter of the return of the lost northern territories to Iran? The return is impossible, since Russia conquered these territories not from the farces, but from the Azerbaijanis - the Qajars state. That is, it would be quite logical to restore the Azerbaijani state through the annexation of the southern lands to the northern ones, since it was the northern ones that turned out to be independent, and the southern ones, after the coup in 1920, became essentially a colony of farces.

[Victorm]

Quote: Old Kaa

The thin isthmus between Turkey and Nakhichevan is easily controlled from the territory of Armenia. There are Russian border guards at the border.

If any provocation of the Armenian and their masters works, confusing all the cards of Russia and Turkey, frustrating their agreements, then this thin isthmus may cease to exist, either at all, or becoming not thin at all.
All that the current situation has given to Azerbaijan as a result of the agreements between Russia and Turkey is the right, at the cost of the lives of their soldiers, that is, their citizens, to liberate their occupied territories. And here everything depends and depended on Russia, and Aliyev is unlikely to go beyond the agreements and allowed by Putin. So the only question is what agreements exist, is it allowed for Azerbaijan, if it is ready to lay down the lives of soldiers and resources, to throw out the Armenian Armed Forces completely, or was it allowed to take only 5 + 2 regions by force, on which the Armenians rested.

[Vadim Golubkov]

In general, as can be seen, over the past years Azerbaijan has learned to fight, learned lessons from previous defeats, and strengthened the army. Other sources wrote about this and here that there will be hostilities. What did the Armenians think and do during this time, how did they prepare and strengthen the army?