Military Review

Russia is trying to revive the microelectronics industry: on the opportunity to take a position in the world market

146

Microelectronics in Russia is going through hard times. But Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin recently expressed confidence in the industry's gradual recovery.


Problems of Russian microelectronics and government plans


Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin visited a semiconductor plant in Yoshkar-Ola. There he admitted that not everything has been going smoothly in the radio-electronic industry since Soviet times, but now the state is ready to invest huge funds in support of the restoration of domestic microelectronics.

We are talking about many billions of rubles, which the government is ready to allocate from the budget to stimulate the development of the industry and gradual import substitution. So, the figure is called 266 billion rubles until 2024. However, this money may turn out to be insufficient: according to the roadmap developed by Rostec, no less than 798 billion rubles will be required to modernize Russian microelectronics in the named period of time.

Russia accounts for only 1% of the global radio electronics market. China, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and the USA are the leaders of the world market of microelectronic components and, in the foreseeable future, will remain. Japan and European countries follow with significant lag.

There are practically no opportunities for the production of integrated circuits in our country, and this is due to the enormous intellectual potential of our country, while the high quality of technical education remains high. Now Russia, according to Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Chernyshenko, even its own needs in microelectronics can cover only 10%. There is a complete dependence of the Russian microelectronics market on foreign suppliers, primarily Japanese and American.

Rostec roadmap


In mid-September, Rostec Corporation presented a roadmap, which speaks of the need for the priority development of two areas of microelectronics. First, it is the development and production of chips with topological norms of 65 (55) nm, 28 nm, 14 nm. 14nm chips are used in the iPhone 6s, which has been on the market since 2015. More modern iPhones are already based on a 7 nm topology. Secondly, we are talking about memory chips for solid state drives in 96 layers and a technical process of 25-30 nm.

The small share of Russian microelectronics that is exported is mainly for military products. Our country has a huge gap in civil microelectronics, which is filled by imports in the market.

Now the largest Russian manufacturer of microelectronics is the Mikron Group of Companies, which is the leader in the domestic semiconductor industry. Micron manufactures over 700 types of products, including integrated circuits used in secure storage media, identification documents, and power management. NIIMA Progress is engaged in the development of digital chips.

Will Russia be able to overcome its technological backwardness?


Rostec believes that the policy of state protectionism, including large-scale investments, will allow to saturate the domestic market with domestic microelectronics for civilian use by 2024. But the roadmap itself raises many questions. For example, 14nm chips have been used in iPhones since 2015. By the time Russia, even following optimistic plans, sets up their production, they will be completely outdated, with a ten-year history.

In the United States, construction of a 5nm-based factory is slated for completion between 2024 and 2029. This enterprise will be launched by the Taiwanese corporation TSMC, which is considered the world's largest processor manufacturer. Therefore, even the development of Russian 14 nm chips by 2024 will not solve the problem of the technological backwardness of domestic microelectronics. And it will be extremely difficult to expand your presence in the global market.

The availability of production facilities that could allow Russia to produce its own civilian microelectronics also raises questions. The country simply does not have the equipment for its production, and the intellectual potential of competent Russian specialists alone cannot correct the situation.

In addition, one should not forget about the negative factors of the current time, which may become an obstacle to the accelerated development of the industry: the coronavirus pandemic and currency inflation have made their own adjustments to the Russian economy. If domestic microelectronics had a level comparable to that of Chinese, Taiwanese, and Japanese, the world economic crisis, on the contrary, would benefit the increase in Russian exports. But at this stage, the pace of development of the industry, on the contrary, may decline.

The state will have to make great efforts to revive domestic microelectronics, and it will not be possible to achieve this goal only by increasing the presence of a Russian product in the domestic market: in any case, the demand for products in the domestic market will depend on competitiveness in the world market.
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  1. nnm
    nnm 2 October 2020 14: 06
    62
    I do not understand the love for phrases such as taking positions in the world market - first, the domestic market must be saturated with QUALITY and inexpensive electronics. Create, develop an industry, eliminate errors, work out technologies, create design and production schools ... In the military-industrial complex, in the field of civil electronics, and only then look at the pie in the sky.
    And then they created Skolkovo, Rusnano, RFPI, but what's the point ...
    1. My_log_in
      My_log_in 2 October 2020 14: 19
      39
      That's it! Let it be big, using outdated technologies, but made by hand from start to finish. Not in a single copy, but, at least, in large series. Then a school will appear, and promising developments, and modern technical processes will begin to be implemented faster. And if you chase the elusive vision all the time ...
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 3 October 2020 03: 19
        +2
        Quote: My_Log_In
        Let it be big, using outdated technologies, but made by hand from start to finish.
        And who will buy it, except for the state order? What processor do you have in your computer? But there is almost our Baikal.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 3 October 2020 13: 50
          +1
          Quote: Simargl
          And who will buy it, except for the state order? What processor do you have in your computer?

          in addition to the processor, the computer has a power supply, the processor is not particularly needed there, the raw materials are quite an expensive spare part, just for our country laughing It seems to me that we will be able to do it. ... smile
          1. Harry.km
            Harry.km 3 October 2020 18: 11
            13
            For a start, it seems to me it would be nice to start making polymers from oil and gas. And from round timber, a finished product, and not raw materials for partners. And then, already in the process, when the organizational processes begin to work, you can swing at nanometers. You have to start from the beginning. From school!
            1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
              Boris ⁣ Shaver 6 October 2020 05: 16
              -1
              Quote: Harry.km
              For a start, it seems to me it would be nice to start making polymers from oil and gas. And from round timber, a finished product, and not raw materials for partners. And then, already in the process, when the organizational processes begin to work, you can swing at nanometers.

              The fact is that any modern production (including polymers and nesting dolls) is, among other things, a huge amount of all kinds of smart electronics. Starting from all now understandable CNC machines and ending with an accountant's computer, telecommunication equipment and a server that stores client databases, document flow, and so on, etc.
              The presence of all this allows you to significantly increase productivity and reduce the final cost of production. And this ultimately determines its competitiveness. If others start stamping matryoshka dolls on the CNC, and we continue to cut them out of a pole with a knife while sitting on the filling, then we will lose the Russian doll market.
              As for the next vigorous setting of another significant goal for the next twentieth year by our "proven" state managers, their statements do not cause anything other than nagging anguish in me personally. I sincerely wish that at least this time my premonitions were wrong.
          2. Simargl
            Simargl 3 October 2020 18: 48
            +1
            Quote: aybolyt678
            the computer has a power supply, the processor is not particularly needed there
            Are we talking about advanced technologies?
            In the power supply of the computer, nothing has changed much in 40 years.
            Quote: aybolyt678
            It seems to me that we will be able to do it.
            Yeah, we can. Does Russia produce a lot of pulse power supplies entirely from domestic components? Do we have at least power transistors for them?
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 3 October 2020 19: 54
              -1
              Quote: Simargl
              Do we have at least power transistors for them?

              Equipment in Zelenograd can be even better!
              As for advanced technologies, the costs for them are so far paid off by raw materials. So at least the raw material to do it yourself !!! will achieve to send for export .... a chicken by the grain.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 3 October 2020 20: 05
                +1
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Equipment in Zelenograd can be even better!
                So where is this "can"?
                Quote: aybolyt678
                So at least the raw material to do it yourself !!!
                Oil. We do it. Only stupid people make money on raw materials.
          3. kultpost
            kultpost 9 October 2020 10: 39
            0
            "besides the processor, the computer has a power supply, the processor is not particularly needed there"
            It seems you do not quite understand the meaning of the word "microelectronics".
    2. iouris
      iouris 2 October 2020 14: 45
      +8
      Quote: nnm
      first we need to saturate the domestic market

      First, the internal market must be created. He's gone. By dissolving the USSR, Moscow gave the markets to the enemy. What did you get? Arranged communism for a very narrow grouping. The market starts from 250 million people, or even more. In the Russian Federation, the population of 130 million and not all have purchasing power. Very far.
    3. 9PA
      9PA 2 October 2020 14: 53
      +5
      For this to happen, the domestic market must be capacious, what will they do with these processors? The question is rather about the strategic presence of at least something
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 2 October 2020 15: 03
      +7
      Quote: nnm
      And then they created Skolkovo, Rusnano, RFPI, but what's the point ...

      They are trying to do ... the gap is huge. And there is no political will in this matter ... SOFSEM is not present.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 3 October 2020 13: 56
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        They are trying to do ... the gap is huge.

        here Zelenograd is the electronics of yesterday. But yesterday is not the day before yesterday, you need to invest not in imported components but in foreign scientists and technologists, good ones. In their scientists, but only in the result.
      2. iouris
        iouris 4 October 2020 15: 08
        +2
        Quote: NEXUS
        Trying to do ... the gap is huge

        Instead of destroying, violating the integrity of your state, in order to then try to protect it with the help of amendments to the constitution.
    5. Galleon
      Galleon 2 October 2020 15: 10
      19
      Quote: nnm
      I don't understand the love for phrases like taking positions in the world market

      Dear, your misunderstanding comes from the fact that a poet does not live in you! fellow You see, in the conditions unpunished creativity on the "distribution" of budget funds, it becomes possible to do this handsomely!! I would even say, with some manners and pathos: it's not just stupid to merge offshore through contracts with your own people, or buy a factory, take out a loan for it and bomb the entire chicken coop, but "to gain positions in the world market", "for breakthrough innovations" , "qualitative leap", "actions without buildup", etc. Well, this is chic, poetry! And then, designate ambitious goals - and you will have a reason to give yourself grandiose funding! Not just "an asphalt plant for the needs of the city", but the world market !! And there will be no need for questions "why we do not have our cell phones or stupid radio tape recorders" - it was said "to the world market" - get off with your radio tape recorders.
      And most importantly, there will be performers who will take this seriously despite all the details and will take upon themselves the realization of the conquest and all responsibility for a successfully failed business. They will be to blame for everything.
      Good article for Friday. Some kind of revival has come, cheerfulness. Maybe from the fact that I felt their "poetry"? laughing
    6. Doccor18
      Doccor18 2 October 2020 15: 28
      +3
      And then they created Skolkovo, Rusnano, RFPI, but what's the point ...

      For those who created - there is a sense ...
    7. Cottodraton
      Cottodraton 2 October 2020 15: 32
      11
      Another thing is interesting. When they screamed from everywhere that cx in the Russian Federation is absolutely unprofitable and therefore there is no need to climb there, then as soon as they pressed the sanctions and began to invest in cx and really work with it, the results were immediately exported. Sharply entered the top three importing countries of the same wheat ...
      Also here, everyone is scared by the complexity of the technical processes ... but after all, no one really tried to do something in this direction ... I'm sure that if you want to and just start doing something without hack-work, it will turn out that everything is wrong And it's scary ... Half of all this puffing of cheeks, bulging eyes and other talk about the "impossibility of creation" and backwardness are just excuses for those who, due to circumstances, do not want to change and do anything ... These were previously called pests.
      1. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 2 October 2020 16: 06
        +7
        Quote: Cottodraton
        then as soon as the sanctions were pressed and they began to invest in cx and really work with it, the results were immediately exported.

        The foundation for today's success of SH was laid in 2008-2010, when no one spoke about sanctions yet.
        I personally took part in the construction of new silos in the Tula region on a massive scale in 2009, 2010.
        NEW HOLLAND tractors and harvesters, I don't remember which brand, were massively purchased for these farms.
        Anything expensive to look at, zero equipment plowed and harvested.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 2 October 2020 16: 25
        +1
        Everyone is scared by the complexity of technical processes ... but after all, no one really tried to do something in this direction "It's not the complexity of technical processes that scares you, and the lack of sales markets for these microprocessors will never pay for such production - money wasted waste production at a loss everyone knows that any high-tech production of microelectronics is very expensive for a long time and it is very risky for the military it is justified for a citizen there is no way for Russia is to create something new revolutionary in high-tech areas, including microelectronics, because these runners-up for reducing the size of microprocessors is a deliberately losing game because we will not catch up.
        1. Artunis
          Artunis 3 October 2020 11: 42
          +2
          In many ways, you are right - a company that has captured more than 70% of the world market with its products in microelectronics (Intel) is virtually invincible and it is useless to climb into its niche - it is only possible to create something new with its own architecture and corresponding software. And we have this - Elbrus. But we can't release it ourselves, there is nothing. To build only one plant with a complete technological chain, you need about a dozen lard and, unfortunately, not rubles! Equipment for this is actually produced by only Holland alone and it is not a fact that we can now buy it even if we have the dough! And also qualified personnel, etc. etc. ...... And you are right at the prices for these products - for a competitive price you need to sell hundreds of millions of chips - the domestic market will not solve anything here.
          1. ZEMCH
            ZEMCH 3 October 2020 14: 43
            +1
            Quote: Artunis
            In many ways, you are right - a company that has captured more than 70% of the world market with its products in microelectronics (Intel) is virtually invincible and it is useless to climb into its niche

            Today Intel's position is not so rosy, AWP processors are taking over the market, Apple is transferring its solutions to AWP.
            We need our own Operating System (OS) running on our hardware, and you need to implement it from schools. While Windows is everywhere, and software for it
      3. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 2 October 2020 16: 51
        +7
        we have been selling wheat for export for decades .. and if not the same wheat, but what else? that in addition to wheat in a comparable volume for export from agricultural we sell, do not tell me? maybe sunflower oil or poultry, but there we are far from among the world leaders ..
        count one wheat and sell it with sunflower, most of the fields are planted with it and we are blowing our cheeks that our agriculture is so cool that it can feed not only the country, but also foreign countries, and in the meantime, even tomatoes / cucumbers for the domestic market, up to until now, we cannot grow in normal quantities ..
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 2 October 2020 20: 59
          -2
          We sell everything that we grow milk cheese butter grain seeds beef pork poultry fish and so on.
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 3 October 2020 13: 28
            +3
            I asked "what other than wheat in comparable volume for export from agricultural production? "the fact that everything is a little bit - it's understandable .. answered the person who wrote us into the world leaders in the sale of agricultural products .. say" we sell everything we grow "... by the way - tomatoes with cucumbers - to whom do we sell? don’t they grow? and why do we import potatoes from China? also does not grow in Russia? and from what you have listed - more or less noticeable - poultry meat, sunflowers, cereals and all .. and so it is possible and because of the milk supplied by our city factory to several stores in Israel - sign us up as a world-class milk exporter!
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 3 October 2020 22: 36
              -1
              "And why do we import potatoes from China" Whoever is profitable to produce and import what is doing this - everyone has a different business. Why we import - because they buy. And Russia also exports several million tons of milk and dairy products a year.
              1. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 4 October 2020 10: 01
                +2
                so about tomatoes with cucumbers and potatoes, what? about dairy .. well .. do not disgrace yourself .. what nafig dairy? As I said, an acquaintance at a dairy plant works for me .. almost everything is made of powder !!! and if milk is exported, it means they eat well, and we are powder ..
              2. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 4 October 2020 21: 03
                0
                https://www.agroinvestor.ru/markets/news/33006-eksport-molochnoy-produktsii-vyros-na-4/ про МИЛЛИОНЫ тонн Вы загнули..
      4. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 6 October 2020 05: 42
        -1
        Quote: Cottodraton
        It's the same here, everyone is afraid of the complexity of the technical processes ... but after all, no one really tried

        You, apparently, have never heard the wonderful story about Angstrem-T?
        It all started like this:
        In 2008, AMD paid ~ 182.5 million euros for equipment, ~ 120 million euros - a license for the technology, ~ 10 million euros - to Meissner & Wurst for stage A of the plant design. However, it was not Angstrem-T that became the owner of the equipment, but Cypriot offshore company Runica.

        Link: https://habr.com/ru/post/156843/

        But it didn't end there! For more than a decade with this state mega-project in the field of microelectronics, the usual things have happened: almost annual loud statements that regularly end even worse than nothing.
        Chronology by reference: https://habr.com/ru/post/413377/

        As a result, in 2019 the plant was finally declared bankrupt, and this project managed to gobble up about 100 billion rubles (link: https://habr.com/ru/news/t/473604/)

        And you say you didn't try. The experience is great! Then 100 billion was mastered in ten years. Now almost a trillion has been swung in 3 years (and the dog, as a rule, during the journey ...). Progress is evident!
    8. Bar1
      Bar1 2 October 2020 15: 59
      +4
      Russia would not occupy a niche in a foreign market, but first provide its consumers, we cannot make our own computer, if the war by pressing a button and this Russia has lost the war. How did they do it, immediately sell over the hill.
    9. Vadim237
      Vadim237 2 October 2020 16: 10
      0
      "First, we need to saturate the domestic market with QUALITY and inexpensive electronics." It will be of high quality, but it will definitely not be cheap.
    10. camo ridges
      camo ridges 2 October 2020 21: 38
      +2
      Depressing is the fact that the break with the leading
      countries, it seems, will never be overcome ...
      1. Bryanskiy_Volk
        Bryanskiy_Volk 3 October 2020 10: 39
        +3
        I will allow myself a couple of philosophical thoughts: 1) It is physically impossible to infinitely reduce the thickness of silicon i.e. roughly speaking, let it be 3 nm - thus (in principle) technologically catching up is still possible; 2) If, suddenly, tomorrow the possibility of building computers on new physical principles opens up, then this will devalue the existing technology (as it happened in due time with the production of mechanical calculating machines).
        1. Nikolai Korovin
          Nikolai Korovin 4 October 2020 16: 34
          +1
          The question is not in the thickness of the silicon substrate, but in the planar technology. 3nm for thickness is fantastic. Take a silicon washer with a diameter of 300 mm and a thickness of 0.1 mm (100 μm). Bends like a sheet of paper. There is nowhere thinner. The question is the quality of metallization in general, the selectivity of the photoresist, and the focusing of the laser beam. The layout of the chip cannot consist of monoatomic chains - one atom was knocked out of position, say, by an X-ray quantum - a circuit break, if not a complete chip failure, then a deterioration in performance for sure. There should be a thickness of several tens of atoms in the plane and at least 3-4 atomic layers in the vertical direction, so maybe 3 nm for the traditional planar technology is close to the limit. But the trouble is that the production of silicon of semiconductor purity has practically been eliminated; it is almost necessary to restore the production of metallurgical silicon to the required volumes. It is impossible without this, but this is by no means high technology. And breakthrough technologies - we talked about qubits, we talked, but something is still somehow not very ...
          1. Bryanskiy_Volk
            Bryanskiy_Volk 5 October 2020 19: 28
            0
            Thank you, Nikolay, for the educational program - very brief and informative hi
            1. Nikolai Korovin
              Nikolai Korovin 5 October 2020 21: 13
              +1
              All these things are little known to the general public - somehow everything is about something else. How many gigabits, and what the clock frequency, how much better it will be to play games with the new processor ... And about the specific technologies that are behind all this - silence. It is difficult to get the whole picture from publicly available databases and even from specialized journals. I have to go to the patent library. And here too - go and figure out where the patent is really working, and where the accompanying disinformation. Well, I worked on substrates - different materials, for different purposes - it's easier here. Everything has been known for a long time, perhaps only small improvements. But what happens on the substrate is know-how. However, with the surface of the substrate now they strive to throw out all sorts of things, which we did not think about at one time. But this is also a question for instrumentists. A qualitative leap, perhaps, can result from the transition from silicon to carbon electronics. On nanotubes, for example. But there are many pitfalls here. The search is wide, and it is not very clear where exactly it is most expedient to move. However, I have long since departed from practical work - I ate all sorts of rubbish. I edit the abstract journal.
    11. Simargl
      Simargl 3 October 2020 03: 17
      -1
      Quote: nnm
      I don’t understand the love for phrases such as taking positions in the world market - first, we need to saturate the domestic market with QUALITY and inexpensive electronics.
      In order to saturate the market with high-quality and inexpensive electronics, it must be competitive in the world market, i.e. take a position on the world market (our domestic market is part of the world market, if anything).

      Quote: nnm
      Create, develop an industry, eliminate errors, work out technologies, create design and production schools ...
      Without looking at the global market and trends? On operating systems, we haven't done much. This is easier.
  2. Livonetc
    Livonetc 2 October 2020 14: 07
    -3
    The technology is high.
    However, not unattainable.
    They require a very serious investment.
    The only but.
    All over the world it is a private business.
    Will it be a matter of the state for us?
    1. nnm
      nnm 2 October 2020 14: 10
      +1
      There are pluses and minuses - on the one hand, by entrusting another Chubais we will hardly be able to create a product as successful as Yandex (for an analogy), and on the other hand, following the example of the United States, we see how a “private trader” inflates prices to space for the military-industrial complex ....
    2. stalki
      stalki 2 October 2020 14: 31
      +2
      The technology is high.
      However, not unattainable.
      They require a very serious investment.
      The only but.
      All over the world it is a private business.
      Will it be a matter of the state for us?
      Well, we must at least start with something, it doesn't matter who, the state or the private owner. The main movement in the right direction is to set, to train personnel, production sites, a raw material base, a scientific platform. And even if they start with not the most advanced technologies in advance. The main movement, and in time everything will come. And to make sure that investments go where they need to go, and not Chubais in the pocket.
      1. Livonetc
        Livonetc 2 October 2020 14: 39
        -1
        There is a difference.
        As a rule, private investments are the most effective.
        They just care much more for what they do and act most effectively.
        However, in this case, private business will definitely not invest.
        Most likely, RosTech will take the topic.
        It will almost certainly be possible to provide strategic industries with an adequate level of production.
        The mass segment will most likely not be provided.
        Yes, this is probably not required.
        1. stalki
          stalki 2 October 2020 15: 31
          +1
          There is a difference.
          As a rule, private investments are the most effective.
          They just care much more for what they do and act most effectively.
          However, in this case, private business will definitely not invest.
          Most likely, RosTech will take the topic.
          It will almost certainly be possible to provide strategic industries with an adequate level of production.
          The mass segment will most likely not be provided.
          Yes, this is probably not required.
          If this is a strategic industry, and it is strategic in this context, then no country in the world could manage in such matters without government intervention, or, say, influence (participation).
        2. Aag
          Aag 2 October 2020 15: 57
          0
          "The mass segment will most likely not be provided.
          Yes, this is probably not required. "
          Probably it will be required (especially if we are not talking about the highest technologies) - for payback! And further development. hi
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 2 October 2020 15: 45
      +7
      Quote: Livonetc
      Will it be a matter of the state for us?

      Does the government of our state HAVE POLITICAL WILL to revive the microelectronics industry from scratch in a relatively realistic timeframe?
      For me, this question has been answered for a long time. The same Skolkovo is pure BUTAFORIA for the development of budget money. Yotophones, electric cars, etc. ... these are all show-offs (the most accurate word) in order to report back and grab the next budget millions.
      And for the revival of a whole huge industry, one needs not feeble investments, commensurate with investments in the defense industry, but also the will of the government and the desire to revive them there.
      To date, everything that is passed off as Russian in microelectronics, in most cases, is not.
      There are two mandatory criteria for a product to be truly Russian ... the first is the complete production process in the Russian Federation. Second, at least 51% of the shares of manufacturing companies must be in the hands of Russian legal entities. Dot.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 2 October 2020 16: 28
        -2
        ZERO microelectronics industry? And why should it be revived from scratch, it is in Russia, and so there is a holding "Ruselectronics", which Mikron is a part of.
  3. Asad
    Asad 2 October 2020 14: 12
    -1
    I don’t understand why they didn’t create a similar system together with the automotive industry? Do you want to sell radio electronics in Russia? Please build factories! Do not want high customs!
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2020 14: 25
      +4
      Quote: ASAD
      I don’t understand why they didn’t create a similar system together with the automotive industry?

      WTO
    2. MP
      MP 2 October 2020 14: 37
      +5
      How do you imagine that? There are a huge number of different types of microcircuits in the world, thousands of their manufacturers, tens of thousands of assemblers, hundreds of thousands of firms with finished products. These are not a dozen car companies. The microcircuit itself, unlike the car, is not needed. It is needed in the finished product. Then it is necessary to localize the production of all products from this microcircuit.
      1. Asad
        Asad 2 October 2020 14: 56
        +2
        You exaggerated the scale of the producers a little! Processors are produced by several companies, also displays, etc., xiaomi itself does not produce anything, only development and implementation.
  4. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 2 October 2020 14: 12
    +7
    Something I have a chronic shortage of good news. I'm going to go to the site "Made by us" and cheer myself up. laughing
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 2 October 2020 14: 57
      +7
      Quote: vladimirvn
      I'll go to the site "Made by us", cheer myself up.

      so there are more and more kindergartens and sports centers recourse
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 2 October 2020 16: 30
        -1
        They are the same as needed.
  5. Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 2 October 2020 14: 13
    +7
    a factory focused on 5nm chips is slated to be completed between 2024 and 2029. The Taiwanese corporation TSMC will launch this enterprise


    TSMC will produce 3nm at the end of 2021 and plan to build a 2nm factory and R&D center in 2023/4.
    https://pocketnow.com/the-tsmc-could-soon-start-working-on-a-new-2nm-chipset-factory
  6. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 14: 21
    +8
    Will Russia be able to overcome its technological backwardness? from the article

    The simplest plan of action (in the image and likeness as it was in the USSR at one time)

    1. A student who enrolled in the specialty in microelectronics at any university in Russia immediately receives an increased scholarship, which allows him ONLY !!! learns, and not think that he will eat today ...

    2. Those who, after graduation, have 75% A's in their diploma - receive an invitation to work in Zelenograd (Moscow) - immediately receive a room in a hostel

    3. A young specialist got married - immediately receives a one-room apartment from the state

    4. A child was born to the family of a young specialist - he immediately receives a kopeck piece from the state ... the second child was born - three rubles ...

    5. In Zelenograd, money is invested in electronics enterprises for modernization ... on condition ... a penny was stolen by the management of the factories - a demonstration shooting on Red Square with an online broadcast of the shooting to the whole world

    you look ... so in 10-15 years we will catch up at least China ... and taaam ... in 20-25 years we will again become a "trendsetter" good

    There are "brains" in Russia !!! You just need to provide them with such a standard of living that they would not float abroad !!! am
    1. nnm
      nnm 2 October 2020 14: 26
      12
      I would also add that the USE must be removed immediately, otherwise we will simply kill all education. And to build up just budget places in priority specialties. And create a normal fund for tuition fees, like the Adenauer fund.
      And you can not only accept good students, but conclude agreements with them during the training period.
      And the problem is that first you need a development plan for the country, that there are such necessary specialties - the sea
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 2 October 2020 14: 31
      +1
      this is a development program for Zelenograd, not russia
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 14: 40
        0
        Quote: yehat2
        this is a development program for Zelenograd, not russia

        For those who DO NOT know the history of the USSR, Zelenograd is an analogue of Silicon Valley in the USA wassat
        So many grandmothers were invested in the development of Zeleograd as a technopark during the Soviet era that it would have been possible to build houses there from pure gold in due time - it would have been cheaper laughing But ... the new government in Russia has lost everything ... all investments ... but !!! it's not too late to restore everything, not all factories have turned into shopping centers there bully there is still gunpowder in the flasks ... albeit at the very bottom ... good
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 2 October 2020 15: 10
          +2
          yes I know what Zelenograd is
          nevertheless, the plan associated with only 1 city looks very strange.
          like the whole country threw off and blossomed? Well, we recently invested a huge amount of cx - and not only did not flourish - in general, they did not leave any trace of the investment.
          This I mean that the above plan is suitable only at the kindergarten level.
          And then, probably, kids already from 4 years old know what a sawing, rollback, etc.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 15: 18
            -1
            Quote: yehat2
            5. In Zelenograd, money is invested in electronics enterprises for modernization ... on condition ... a penny was stolen by the management of the factories - a demonstration shooting on Red Square with an online broadcast of the shooting to the whole world

            Are you CAREFULLY ?! read my point 5:

            5. In Zelenograd, money is invested in electronics enterprises for modernization ... on condition ... a penny was stolen by the management of the factories - a demonstration shooting on Red Square with an online broadcast of the shooting to the whole world

            repeat
    3. Maalkavianin
      Maalkavianin 2 October 2020 14: 36
      +2
      And if a person was weaned by his specialty, to become an engineer of microelectronics, he was well trained, but he did not go to work in his specialty and went to McDonald's. Or he opened his own business. The result is that the efforts and funds for training have been invested, but there is no specialist. In addition, one must understand that the salary in such an industry, for an ordinary engineer, will not be high. If you oblige a graduate to work for 5-10 years in production, simply no one will go to a specialty, and if you make high salaries, then specialists will become individual and, to a large extent, arranged by pull, since where there is big money, there is always pull. They try to build their own. request
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 15: 05
        -1
        Quote: Malkavianin
        And if a person was weaned by his specialty, to become an engineer of microelectronics, he was well trained, but he did not go to work in his specialty and went to McDonald's. Or he opened his own business. The result is that the efforts and funds for training have been invested, but there is no specialist. In addition, one must understand that the salary in such an industry, for an ordinary engineer, will not be high. If you oblige a graduate to work for 5-10 years in production, simply no one will go to a specialty, and if you make high salaries, then specialists will become individual and, to a large extent, arranged by pull, since where there is big money, there is always pull. They try to build their own. request

        Pure out of respect for you !!! drinks "I use my fingers" fellow

        2020 ... a university graduate with a degree in microelectronics received a diploma this summer ... he has a "red diploma" ... what do you think ... he will go to work at McDonald's ... or make a marriage proposal to his girlfriend and in a month he will get married and enter his own odnushka in Zelenograd (Moscow) ??? !!! lol
        1. Maalkavianin
          Maalkavianin 2 October 2020 15: 57
          +1
          Anything can be. And you can go anywhere. MacDonald is for example. The problem of working outside the specialty has existed for a very long time. And this moment is not being resolved by a single increase in salaries and proximity to Moscow. :-) And knowing through what place all our undertakings are made ... laughing
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 16: 00
            -1
            Quote: Malkavianin
            Anything can be. And you can go anywhere. MacDonald is for example. The problem of working outside the specialty has existed for a very long time. And this moment is not being resolved by a single increase in salaries and proximity to Moscow. :-) And knowing through what place all our undertakings are made ... laughing

            I am writing now with humor !!! drinks
            You still re-read my posts here on this topic !!! good
            Of course, you can "drive a barrel" on young people ... but ... I don't know NOR yet !!! one of the young people who will refuse a "free" apartment in Moscow - all the more so if it comes with a job to his liking and a "garnished woman" laughing
            1. Maalkavianin
              Maalkavianin 2 October 2020 16: 19
              +1
              Well, if there is also an attached store, then the place of work is beyond competition. laughing drinks
    4. Revival
      Revival 2 October 2020 15: 16
      0
      Here you still need to look at the size of salaries, otherwise such a highly qualified specialist will simply leave "over the hill"
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 15: 20
        -1
        Quote: Revival
        Here you still need to look at the size of salaries, otherwise such a highly qualified specialist will simply leave "over the hill"

        For a start, the salary can be left as it is now - 50.000 rubles a month for a start, as in Zelenograd there is now ... only ... a single room - if married - it costs 3.000.000 rubles and gets a specialist as soon as he gets married7 .. a two-room apartment - - 5 million rubles ... three rubles = 7 million rubles ...
        1. Alexander X
          Alexander X 3 October 2020 10: 53
          -1
          I would like to add that the provided apartments must be service apartments without the right to privatization. Redemption of such an apartment is allowed only to the employees of the given enterprise, provided that they pay in installments in money from the "salary account" of this employee and without attracting loans. That is, live, use it while you work here. And if you want to redeem, then earn here ...
    5. Aag
      Aag 2 October 2020 16: 12
      0
      "There are" brains "in Russia !!! You just need to provide them with such a standard of living that they would not float abroad!"
      I am afraid that I will have to embody what you proposed in paragraph 5 (regarding the execution) to some students, graduates, young specialists when crossing the border. (((For who is such a holiday of life? I mean what was proposed in paragraphs 1-4. forget, we have a lot of failing industries - if not limited to the topic of one article. hi
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 16: 16
        -1
        Quote: AAG
        "There are" brains "in Russia !!! You just need to provide them with such a standard of living that they would not float abroad!"
        I am afraid that I will have to embody what you proposed in paragraph 5 (regarding the execution) to some students, graduates, young specialists when crossing the border. (((For who is such a holiday of life? I mean what was proposed in paragraphs 1-4. forget, we have a lot of failing industries - if not limited to the topic of one article. hi

        P.5 - it's universal !!! good
        Moreover, it will not be necessary to live in Russia according to the Constitution, the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and the Civil Code of the Russian Federation wassat just apply paragraph 5))) simply because living according to the laws in the Russian Federation will never heal)))
    6. Vadim237
      Vadim237 2 October 2020 16: 32
      0
      "And taaam ... in 20-25 years we will again become a" trendsetter "This is when Russia was a trendsetter in microelectronics?
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 16: 34
        -4
        Quote: Vadim237
        "And taaam ... in 20-25 years we will again become a" trendsetter "This is when Russia was a trendsetter in microelectronics?

        From the early 1950s to the early 1970s !!! good
        You need to know the history of your country !!! drinks
    7. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 2 October 2020 17: 55
      +1
      Quote: Corona without virus
      The simplest plan of action (in the image and likeness as it was in the USSR at one time)

      The USSR did not know how to give answers to the demands of the time and fell apart. mines should not be pasted.

      one of the problems of the socialist system is that the state controls / tries to do this in all economic spheres of activity. but from the headquarters, not everything is so clearly visible as a good owner on the spot.

      in modern Russia, the oligarchs see no reason to invest in production.
      you need to figure out what the reason is and try to change the situation.
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 18: 00
        -1
        Quote: Maki Avellevich
        Quote: Corona without virus
        The simplest plan of action (in the image and likeness as it was in the USSR at one time)

        The USSR did not know how to give answers to the demands of the time and fell apart. mines should not be pasted.

        one of the problems of the socialist system is that the state controls / tries to do this in all economic spheres of activity. but from the headquarters, not everything is so clearly visible as a good owner on the spot.

        in modern Russia, the oligarchs see no reason to invest in production.
        you need to figure out what the reason is and try to change the situation.

        And the reason is precisely - or rather, the question - who rules Russia now - the oligarchs or the state ?! am

        The state is driving Russia - then it, the state, must do everything to ensure that at least the level of development of electronics is such that we do not depend on external supplies !!! at least in the defense sphere !!!

        ... about the fact that even on the computers of the government of the Russian Federation there is Windows, I am silent ... and that our presidents use iPhones ... that our programmers' hands have dried up or their brains have boiled away ?! you just need to let the industry develop - and we will have our own!
    8. garri-lin
      garri-lin 2 October 2020 21: 42
      +1
      Items 3 and 4 are illogical. People of intellectual work, especially enthusiastic ones, often take work home. A young family specialist will need a place at home where he can think about work in his free time from everyday worries. We need an office. One bedroom apartment is unique. And one of the rooms is big. 20-25 squares. The state will not become poorer, but people will be more comfortable. And there are fewer problems with moving. And add to the plus to your Utopia. Nursery, kindergarten, sports school for children. To relieve knowledge workers. And let their children develop harmoniously. Dreams Dreams.
    9. Simargl
      Simargl 3 October 2020 03: 23
      -2
      Quote: Corona without virus
      and taaam ... in 20-25 years - we will again become a "trendsetter"
      Russia is the trendsetter in electronics ?! When was that?
      Russian (original Soviet) microcircuits are the largest in the world!
    10. Reklastik
      Reklastik 3 October 2020 04: 43
      0
      "Dorm room"? A one-room apartment after marriage? Can you imagine what it is like to raise even 2 children nowadays? Take a look around how people live and what they are guided by. You will wait a long time for people with such a set of proposals. Strategist...
    11. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 3 October 2020 18: 54
      0
      Is that all? Is it not necessary to build fabs, invest in research, invest in education?
  7. Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 2 October 2020 14: 27
    0
    And it is Good !!! Just great !!! The only thing I can't understand is why they pulled the cat for so long for all the details ?! It was needed the day before yesterday! And Chubais for a count !!! And not on a nanocolor, but on a regular one!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 2 October 2020 16: 38
      +3
      Russia already had a project and the Angstrem T plant, the production of microcircuits using 65 nm technology, the production was closed because there were no buyers for the plant, they spent under 70 billion rubles Efficiency = 0, the plant did not pay off at all. And no one knows what to do with this bankrupt now.
      1. prior
        prior 2 October 2020 17: 19
        +6
        And next to it, the Angstrem plant, the former leader of Soviet microelectronics, is breathing.
        Elma covered herself with the "copper basin" of the market economy.
        Separate components remain from the Component.
        Sitronics has sunk into oblivion.
        There is not even a line ministry.
        And the "tax collector" talks about world indicators ...
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 2 October 2020 21: 03
          -2
          In Russia, at the moment, 3000 offices are engaged in microelectronics, software component base, drives, computers, cores, etc.
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 3 October 2020 19: 00
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            There are currently 3000 offices in Russia



            Russia accounts for only 1% of the global radio electronics market.
  8. Maks1995
    Maks1995 2 October 2020 14: 28
    +8
    Eh ... We heard this news 60 times, 2 times every year since the 90s ...
    Alas, no one bore responsibility ...

    In the meantime, there is the nickname Aifonchik, Chubais has 2 phones for tens of millions of dollars each, and a lot of the like ...
  9. yehat2
    yehat2 2 October 2020 14: 30
    +2
    yes, no positions on the world market are needed - at least start to cover internal needs and with a high quality, and not with products that are outdated 20 years ago. And debug the production upgrade process,
    and then aim at the world.
  10. prior
    prior 2 October 2020 14: 34
    +5
    Even if we start to produce something, no one will let Russian electronics into world markets.
    This means that its cost will be an order of magnitude higher.
    Without mass scale there will be neither profitability nor efficiency.
    Mishustin's statement is empty chatter, good wishes and pipe dreams.
    It takes several generations just to train educated personnel.
    Microelectronics is not selling tomatoes on the market.
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 2 October 2020 14: 38
    +2
    Russia is trying to revive the microelectronics industry: on the opportunity to take a position in the world market

    My God, MIRACLE WILL BE DONE !!! or again just talk and re-glued labels ???
  12. lopvlad
    lopvlad 2 October 2020 14: 38
    +2
    about the opportunity to take a position in the world market


    the road only to a hypothetical entry into the world market begins with the development of the production of its own (or foreign analogues) of the simplest microcircuits and the release on their basis of products for the domestic market.
    What could be the world market if we are not able to establish even the production of LED bulbs on domestic parts.
  13. Engineer
    Engineer 2 October 2020 14: 39
    +3
    To everyone who wants to go broke with the situation with electronics in the world and in Russia
    We read an excellent article here
    https://habr.com/ru/post/486326/
    Here is the recipe for a success story
    The industry was revolutionized by a Taiwanese engineer named Morris Chang. Born in mainland China in 1931, he left the heat of the civil war to study in the United States in 1948, where he pursued a successful career, which culminated in the positions of vice president of Texas Instruments and CEO of General Instrument. In 1985, when Chang was about to retire, adviser to the President of Taiwan and former Prime Minister Sun Yunxuan (who is called the architect of turning the country into a powerful industrial power) invited him to the position of director of the Industrial Technology Research Institute (ITRI). So Chang returned to his homeland and got the opportunity to realize his long-standing idea - to create a factory that will not develop and sell anything itself, but will concentrate exclusively on developing technology for the needs of third-party customers. This factory was founded in 1987 under the name Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company or TSMC.

    Engineering background + senior management positions in REAL business + an invitation from government agencies to a key position in a key project
    Now let's go here and understand why we won't succeed
    https://ru.indeed.com

    1. yehat2
      yehat2 2 October 2020 15: 28
      +1
      according to my calculations, now a topical specialist should earn about 160 at least just in order not to slide down professionally, so as not to run around at discounts after work, not stand in stores and at the stove to cook dinner, so that he has time and freedom of action for development. Below, the lag just begins, no matter how hard you try.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 2 October 2020 16: 34
        +2
        If your calculations are correct, there are practically no qualified engineers left in Russia. Even in Moscow, the median salary leading engineer 80-100 thousand.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 2 October 2020 16: 47
          -1
          there are few competitive at the world level.
          China is now ready to provide 20 times more such specialists
          in the United States, the issue is complex there, it is very difficult to calculate the money actually needed, but also not a little.
      2. Aag
        Aag 2 October 2020 16: 50
        0
        Quote: yehat2
        according to my calculations, now a topical specialist should earn about 160 at least just in order not to slide down professionally, so as not to run around at discounts after work, not stand in stores and at the stove to cook dinner, so that he has time and freedom of action for development. Below, the lag just begins, no matter how hard you try.

        Everything is clear. Only one question: "Where is the money, Zin? ..."
        Those who have them do not need it, and they will not give them away for no reason.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 2 October 2020 16: 53
          +1
          specialists are needed for production
          and our elite needs speculation, the exploitation of slaves and the primitive sale of resources.
          therefore, in production literally everywhere, wages are simply at a minimum
    2. Aag
      Aag 2 October 2020 16: 52
      +1
      Such vacancies came across. Puzzled, but did not take it seriously .... Tin !!!
    3. Igoresha
      Igoresha 9 October 2020 09: 28
      0
      Now let's go here and understand why we won't succeed

      drink !!! my friend quit a fish shop in Kharkov, as a handyman, salary was 12000 UAH (12x2,7 UAH) = 32400 rubles, and skis for the Czech Republic, but here the design engineer has less.
  14. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 2 October 2020 14: 54
    0
    All the problems and difficulties are clear, we cannot overtake the United States and China in microelectronics, we simply don’t have such a sales market, we don’t have as many resources as they have, but our companies must take some part of the market, this is not a matter of prestige, but of the country's security.
  15. Alien From
    Alien From 2 October 2020 15: 01
    0
    It's a matter of seams .....
  16. Antokha
    Antokha 2 October 2020 15: 01
    -6
    I do not agree with the author's message that nothing will work. Rather, the author's message is this: it should work IMMEDIATELY, in one step, but we understand that it will not work. It will not work right away, but this does not mean at all that you should not try to squeeze the maximum out of the current state. There are many successful examples of such development. Physical development is the most obvious. It's a fact that you can't catch up with a swimming champion or <insert the desired sport> right away. But progressive development will do its job, and we will get 80% of the world level. In addition, Russia, as the author points out, has an undeniable advantage over the whole world in ingenuity. This means that we can really very quickly catch up, jump either to the best world level, or next to it. Sometimes we surpass him immediately. Neither the Chinese nor the Americans stood by here. Even the Unified State Exam cannot completely destroy this quality of ours. I would venture to suggest that it was given by God, and therefore smart people continue to be born in our country. We must do everything that is possible with the money and technology that we can get. Let's go to the plateau - again think about how to jump further. At the same time, it would be nice to get rid of the Western terminology such as "road map", tea has its own head and its own language. If we endlessly copy their turns of speech, concepts, style of thinking and procedures, we will definitely not catch up.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. Just a Traveler
    Just a Traveler 2 October 2020 15: 17
    -3
    You just need to be a normal civilized country and everything will work out.
    Microelectronics of the most modern level is impossible in modern Russia.
    However, as in the vast majority of countries in the world.
    This is the lot of selected countries on the planet.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 2 October 2020 16: 44
      +1
      It is possible, but it will not pay off due to the lack of sales markets, both internal and external - you have done little in the civil sector - this is something that still needs to be sold the last word for a client who has a large choice in this regard.
  19. Tagan
    Tagan 2 October 2020 15: 19
    +2
    Quote: Crown without virus
    Will Russia be able to overcome its technological backwardness? from the article

    The simplest plan of action (in the image and likeness as it was in the USSR at one time)

    1. A student who enrolled in the specialty in microelectronics at any university in Russia immediately receives an increased scholarship, which allows him ONLY !!! learns, and not think that he will eat today ...

    2. Those who, after graduation, have 75% A's in their diploma - receive an invitation to work in Zelenograd (Moscow) - immediately receive a room in a hostel

    3. A young specialist got married - immediately receives a one-room apartment from the state

    4. A child was born to the family of a young specialist - he immediately receives a kopeck piece from the state ... the second child was born - three rubles ...


    Well, let’s say, in the radio engineering institute there was a very common scholarship - 40 rubles. Increased for high achievers. For the first time I hear about 75 percent of fives for Zelenograd. There was the usual distribution in which students with high academic performance or those who had proven themselves in industrial practice had a greater choice. And further downward. Accordingly, the specialists entering the distribution were provided with a hostel. At the expense of getting odnushki immediately after marriage, too, embellishment. Yes, there were lucky ones, but not so often.
    You probably know about the USSR from someone's stories (fairy tales).
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 2 October 2020 16: 50
      -1
      I know first-hand that there was not much housing in Zelenograd
  20. Just a Traveler
    Just a Traveler 2 October 2020 15: 29
    +5
    Quote: Engineer
    To everyone who wants to go broke with the situation with electronics in the world and in Russia
    We read an excellent article here
    https://habr.com/ru/post/486326/
    Here is the recipe for a success story
    The industry was revolutionized by a Taiwanese engineer named Morris Chang. Born in mainland China in 1931, he left the heat of the civil war to study in the United States in 1948, where he pursued a successful career, which culminated in the positions of vice president of Texas Instruments and CEO of General Instrument. In 1985, when Chang was about to retire, adviser to the President of Taiwan and former Prime Minister Sun Yunxuan (who is called the architect of turning the country into a powerful industrial power) invited him to the position of director of the Industrial Technology Research Institute (ITRI). So Chang returned to his homeland and got the opportunity to realize his long-standing idea - to create a factory that will not develop and sell anything itself, but will concentrate exclusively on developing technology for the needs of third-party customers. This factory was founded in 1987 under the name Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company or TSMC.

    Engineering background + senior management positions in REAL business + an invitation from government agencies to a key position in a key project
    Now let's go here and understand why we won't succeed
    https://ru.indeed.com



    A couple of years ago, when a team of electronics engineers from an ordinary Chinese company flew to us for negotiations, which is not even included in the top 20 local leaders of their direction, our chef over cognac asked their head of the RND department, who led the meeting - if it's not a secret what Are the salaries of engineers in companies of your level now?
    The Chinese responded - at least $ 3 a month for an entry-level radio engineer.
    When this was translated by the translator at the large conference table, where our electronic engineers and heads of the relevant departments were sitting, there was a shocked silence over the table.
    Because at that time, the announced entry-level salary of the Chinese in dollars was 2 times higher than the salary of the heads of our departments. And then we thought that we are making good money!
    After a shock pause, our director, after a sip of brandy, quietly recommended that the Chinese comrades no longer talk about the level of their salaries at meetings with potential partners in Russia.

    Most of the readers of this site do not even come close to understanding the scale and level of complexity of the topic of modern microelectronics.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 2 October 2020 16: 06
      +1
      Most of the readers of this site do not even come close to understanding the scale and level of complexity of the topic of modern microelectronics.

      This is not even the problem. They are not experts in this field.
      The problem is that we constantly look back in search of recipes. But recipes from the past only work in the past. No Stalin's engineering will resurrect in Russia.

      "The salary of an engineer is one hundred thousand rubles less than a developer"
      https://vc.ru/flood/18934-engineers-salary
      This should be written about
      About the fact that space and defense establish low wages in the labor market. And private employers just follow this trend. As a result, we have a deformed labor market.
      The very best go to IT. In the partner company, both progers are electronics engineers.

      If you want to be an engineer in modern Russia, don't work as an engineering company. Go where you will be the only unique specialist, not one of many.
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 3 October 2020 19: 06
        +1
        Quote: Engineer
        But recipes from the past only work in the past.


        Few people here understand this repeat
    2. Aag
      Aag 2 October 2020 18: 33
      +3
      Quote: Just a Traveler
      Quote: Engineer
      To everyone who wants to go broke with the situation with electronics in the world and in Russia
      We read an excellent article here
      https://habr.com/ru/post/486326/
      Here is the recipe for a success story
      The industry was revolutionized by a Taiwanese engineer named Morris Chang. Born in mainland China in 1931, he left the heat of the civil war to study in the United States in 1948, where he pursued a successful career, which culminated in the positions of vice president of Texas Instruments and CEO of General Instrument. In 1985, when Chang was about to retire, adviser to the President of Taiwan and former Prime Minister Sun Yunxuan (who is called the architect of turning the country into a powerful industrial power) invited him to the position of director of the Industrial Technology Research Institute (ITRI). So Chang returned to his homeland and got the opportunity to realize his long-standing idea - to create a factory that will not develop and sell anything itself, but will concentrate exclusively on developing technology for the needs of third-party customers. This factory was founded in 1987 under the name Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company or TSMC.

      Engineering background + senior management positions in REAL business + an invitation from government agencies to a key position in a key project
      Now let's go here and understand why we won't succeed
      https://ru.indeed.com



      A couple of years ago, when a team of electronics engineers from an ordinary Chinese company flew to us for negotiations, which is not even included in the top 20 local leaders of their direction, our chef over cognac asked their head of the RND department, who led the meeting - if it's not a secret what Are the salaries of engineers in companies of your level now?
      The Chinese responded - at least $ 3 a month for an entry-level radio engineer.
      When this was translated by the translator at the large conference table, where our electronic engineers and heads of the relevant departments were sitting, there was a shocked silence over the table.
      Because at that time, the announced entry-level salary of the Chinese in dollars was 2 times higher than the salary of the heads of our departments. And then we thought that we are making good money!
      After a shock pause, our director, after a sip of brandy, quietly recommended that the Chinese comrades no longer talk about the level of their salaries at meetings with potential partners in Russia.

      Most of the readers of this site do not even come close to understanding the scale and level of complexity of the topic of modern microelectronics.

      Did many of your employees screw up their eyes after the translation?)
      "Most of the readers of this site do not even come close to understanding the scale and level of complexity of the topic of modern microelectronics ..."
      Of course, but you must admit that there are a lot of THEMES, and, unfortunately, the number of people with whom you can discuss issues of resolving problems in a particular area in the interests of the state is getting smaller.
      In this regard, people who continue to root for their work (and not the body)))) cause special respect, and, in addition, popularize the topic, relentlessly knocking on closed doors, defending their opinions on various platforms, in the interests of the country, while ready, and those who do not shy away from chewing on the topic to people who are simply not indifferent, although not specialists. As an example, articles by M. Klimov, as comments of some VO participants who are close to their topics and bring their knowledge and experience to people who are interested, not indifferent. (Don't forget about spies!). ))) hi
  21. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 2 October 2020 15: 39
    +2
    I may be wrong, but 14 nm technology is quite a good level, fixing on which is not such an archaism.
    If we consider the use in military equipment, this technology will be enough for military products on the scale in which our industry is capable of producing them, given the current economy.
    If we consider the commercial benefits and competitiveness of civilian products - modern mobile devices are used with more than one chip - and we may well "take" high-quality optics, screen, color rendering, battery capacity on the line - with slightly lower computing power (which, in my opinion, are redundant in a number of modern technology).
    At the moment, we need to form a theoretical image of the areas in which we would like to occupy our niche in the international market in the foreseeable future. And to play in these directions "hard", not sparing money and not being almond-shaped with "partners", with extremely specific responsibility for these projects within the country. Since most likely it will be difficult for us to grasp all the electronics, it is better to start small and segmented.
  22. Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 2 October 2020 15: 59
    +2
    Quote: Corona without virus
    For starters, you can leave the salary as it is now - 50.000 rubles per month to start

    Are you sure ?, and not 20 per month with a young specialist? Therefore, they go to work at McDonald's. There the salary is higher.
  23. imobile2008
    imobile2008 2 October 2020 16: 54
    0
    Quote: Crown without virus
    Quote: Malkavianin
    And if a person was weaned by his specialty, to become an engineer of microelectronics, he was well trained, but he did not go to work in his specialty and went to McDonald's. Or he opened his own business. The result is that the efforts and funds for training have been invested, but there is no specialist. In addition, one must understand that the salary in such an industry, for an ordinary engineer, will not be high. If you oblige a graduate to work for 5-10 years in production, simply no one will go to a specialty, and if you make high salaries, then specialists will become individual and, to a large extent, arranged by pull, since where there is big money, there is always pull. They try to build their own. request

    Pure out of respect for you !!! drinks "I use my fingers" fellow

    2020 ... a university graduate with a degree in microelectronics received a diploma this summer ... he has a "red diploma" ... what do you think ... he will go to work at McDonald's ... or make a marriage proposal to his girlfriend and in a month he will get married and enter his own odnushka in Zelenograd (Moscow) ??? !!! lol

    Now if it does not hold out, then at McDonald's, if a good specialist is abroad. What will change? Just what will change? who does not hold out for the apartment, and who is catching up abroad.
  24. imobile2008
    imobile2008 2 October 2020 16: 56
    0
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    I may be wrong, but 14 nm technology is quite a good level, fixing on which is not such an archaism.
    If we are considering the use in military equipment, this technology is enough for military products in those
    After 10 years? Are you sure?
  25. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 2 October 2020 17: 23
    +2
    first, it is necessary to establish the production of high-tech machine tools for the production of microelectronics
  26. Tochilka
    Tochilka 2 October 2020 17: 26
    +5
    Until they produce YOUR equipment, YOUR materials, all this will be demagogy. I myself work at Mikron, I see the problem from the inside.
  27. BAI
    BAI 2 October 2020 18: 09
    +1
    not everything has gone smoothly since Soviet times,

    This is the trend at the top now - to kick the USSR, they say, in the USSR they did it badly or not, but what are we doing? So the USSR is gone for 30 years already, and we all cannot catch up with it. And in electronics we are now lagging behind forever (thanks to the democrats who destroyed the domestic electronics industry. First of all, they destroyed it. On a dead-end branch - AvtoVAZ was thrown billions in order to then sell it to foreigners for a pittance, and the MEP was ditched). It (electronics) is developing in the West at a faster pace than our "recovery" is going on.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 2 October 2020 21: 13
      -1
      So the USSR is gone for 30 years already, and we all cannot catch up with it. How to catch up with someone who did almost nothing competitive in the civil sector for the entire time of its existence, all computers were copies of AMD's, even the MK 90 Electronics, which in the late 80s began to be produced at a hefty price, was a clone of the Japanese CASIO. Since the CPSU Central Committee put a lot of horseradish on our civilian products, like electronics, since the 60s. Everyone who had money was chasing foreign technology and electronics until the collapse of the Union.
    2. SARANCHA1976
      SARANCHA1976 6 October 2020 07: 38
      0
      Yes, this is not a trend ... you have to constantly explain to people that it was bad before and now it is good, or at least not worse. And then all sorts of harmful thoughts climb into the head of the people
    3. kultpost
      kultpost 9 October 2020 10: 47
      0
      They kick absolutely right. The USSR did some things in such a way that it would be better if it did not do it.
  28. chingachguc
    chingachguc 2 October 2020 19: 52
    0
    If you set ambitious goals right away, you will fail. No technology, no experience. And no one will share with us. It is necessary to set realistically feasible tasks with guaranteed demand. We need a system of preferences for investors. It is necessary to entice specialists, and if possible - and manufacturers. We need a training system. This is a program for decades, because this is an industry in which we have always lagged behind. And it is stupid to wait for immediate benefits. But we must do: not today or tomorrow they will cut us off from supplies.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 2 October 2020 21: 15
      -3
      Russia now has directions: quantum computers, photonics, artificial intelligence, new materials for electronics, special instrumentation.
  29. iouris
    iouris 2 October 2020 21: 15
    +1
    I didn’t see the name “Rogozin” in the text, and it was the person with this name that promised very quickly to raise “domestic microelectronics” to a high level very long ago. Well...?
  30. TriA
    TriA 2 October 2020 22: 00
    14
    Russia is trying to revive the microelectronics industry

    Good decision. The main thing is that Chubais should not be allowed to come close to the revival of microelectronics.
  31. vvnab
    vvnab 3 October 2020 00: 55
    +2
    It is necessary to invest in education also in fundamental science, and not in obsolete technologies. Dead end road. No options ...
  32. Iskazi
    Iskazi 3 October 2020 02: 59
    +1
    the author calls for going nowhere ..., market share ..., and other nonsense ..., a political decision is required, but the Kremlin is not capable of it, there is scientific and technical potential ... but there is no will to use it .. ., the more the modern Russian leadership left the GB-eshnoy overcoat, and it is no secret that it was the leadership of the Soviet KGB in every possible way hindered the development of microelectronics in the USSR, the same policy continues at the present time.
  33. Campanella
    Campanella 3 October 2020 09: 10
    +1
    Obviously, we need a sane plan for the development of the radio-electronic industry in conjunction with the economic development of the country.
    It is also clear that initially government orders should pull the industry, involving it in market mechanisms. And only good wishes will not raise anything.
  34. U-58
    U-58 3 October 2020 09: 17
    0
    Catch a wolf for our calf ...
    Of course, as they say in the East, ask for a camel, you will get a horse.
    In our case, we will ask for the camel ourselves.
    And then: the export of microelectronics is a very distant goal with vague prospects, because everyone has taken up the development of this topic and the market will fill up.
    But providing yourself with components is a vital issue. Fool with them, with mobile phones!
    We need electronics primarily for defense and space, including radiation resistant ones.
    Relying on the Chinese dragon is both rash and dangerous. Today he is a friend, and tomorrow .. he will suddenly eat)).
    However, for the development of production for the 21st year, 1,6 billion rubles are allocated, a third of which will traditionally be taken away, and 5 billion for the repair of the roof of the House of Government.
    These are the priorities.
    So we will never reach Mars ...
  35. strelokmira
    strelokmira 3 October 2020 10: 32
    +2
    In mid-September, Rostec Corporation presented a roadmap, which speaks of the need for the priority development of two areas of microelectronics. Firstly, it is the development and production of chips with topological norms of 65 (55) nm, 28 nm, 14 nm

    Forgive me, but Rostec didn’t roll out my lip, they sold us with a creak a 65nm lithograph line, which are 28 and 14, similar lines for another 10 years no one in their right mind will not export for export.
    So our microelectronics is not even in a state of coma, but of a floor of a decomposed corpse, which does not need to be revived, but rebuilt from scratch.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 October 2020 22: 42
      -1
      Under the new program, under 800 billion rubles, domestic equipment for 45 28 and 14 nm will be created, maybe by the end of the 20th and will be created.
      1. strelokmira
        strelokmira 4 October 2020 10: 04
        +1
        Under the new program, under 800 billion rubles, domestic equipment for 45 28 and 14 nm will be created, maybe by the end of the 20th and will be created.

        Well, considering that China is one of the leaders in the industry, now it produces the most modern domestic lines of lithography at 22 nm. When, like in Korea, there are already 7 nm lines.
        I'm afraid by the end of the 20s, at best, 45 nm will be mastered, and this is only despite the fact that all 800 billion will go to the development of this equipment, and not something else
  36. Train
    Train 3 October 2020 14: 01
    -1
    Hilarious-revive! Micro EL. We never had. What he planned to revive there. If they stop stealing, then the calculator will probably be assembled in 10 years
  37. Dron_sk
    Dron_sk 3 October 2020 17: 14
    0
    When they talk about the development of our microelectronics, I immediately remember a case from my childhood, from the 90s. I had a friend a year older than me, who lived in the next apartment, who was already in the yard gangs and communicated with various thugs. I was more domestic and excellent student. My prefix Dandy somehow broke down and he took me to one person, also from our entrance, according to him, an electronics engineer who would fix my prefix. We took the console, went up to his floor, a friend called the apartment, opened by a man in awkward horn-rimmed glasses with thick lenses with overgrown wavy hair, one of the Russian prisoners in the Badaber Fortress TV series, the one with glasses that looks like him. A friend says: "Hello. Here, fix it." - "What's with her?" - "Doesn't start". He took the prefix, twisted it, thought a little and said that most likely something burned out there and he could not do anything. The friend persuaded him a little more, but it was useless. We took the console and left. I was then 10-11 years old, a friend, respectively, 11-12. And as a boy who was instilled in respect for elders, I was then struck by how boorish, impudent, rude, my friend talked to an adult much older than us at "you".
    Subsequently, I saw how this electronics engineer was beaten by the starshaki, then a man who drove down the stairs of a drunken man from our entrance, who was driving at that time in the coolest car in the yard - a two-door RAV4, drove him down the stairs. In general, like many in those days, that electronics engineer stupidly got drunk.
    Perhaps that person was not even a microelectronics engineer, but simply an ASU specialist or a Kipovite, but since then a prejudice has firmly settled in my childhood consciousness that being a microelectronics engineer is not prestigious, lacking money and respectful. And later, although I had all the prerequisites to study in the field of microelectronics or IT, since I won prizes in regional olympiads in mathematics and physics in regional ones, I chose the specialty of an oil worker, since I wanted to pull myself and my parents out of poverty. As a result, he became an entrepreneur.
    Even during the Soviet era, we were very lagging behind the West in microelectronics, and in the 1990s, this is generally the case - even what it was was ruined by would-be managers with the slogan "Nada make money", and microelectronics then, as well as now, did not bring income , but on the contrary - required investments. As a result, the key specialists that were, went abroad, the rest did not develop in any way and got drunk, new ones did not appear, since there were no prospects and there was nowhere to develop.
    After the first oil crisis, Skolkovo was created, but they moved more or less only after the second oil crisis in 2014. As a result - 15 years of stagnation, plus the lag that already existed ...
    So far, I do not see much success in this area. I saw the conditions in which specialists live in the same Skolkovo - very good conditions and not bad wages there. I hope it’s not just that they get them and the results will appear over time. At least the prestige of the profession has risen.
    To create the same advanced drums (and not the ones that are - only reconnaissance ..) drones (and not only) and not depend on foreign components, we need a breakthrough in microelectronics. Already, however, wrote on this site about it.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 October 2020 22: 48
      0
      Skolkovo was created. Skolkovo does not deal with microelectronics Skolkovo is just the name of a site with special conditions for attracting already operating resident offices to its territory - in Russia the holding company Ruselectronics deals with microelectronics; KRET is engaged in radio electronics.
  38. FRoman1984
    FRoman1984 4 October 2020 05: 43
    +2
    Will Russia be able to overcome its technological backwardness?

    No, it won't. Investments in almost a trillion rubles will not be pulled by the country, and business, of course, will not be invested so as not to be taken away later. Yes, and no hands, no brains anymore. Either they have gone to the Silicon valleys, or they are not working in their specialty. Alas, it's too late to sew mittens when the fingers are already frostbitten.
  39. Arthur Yazovskikh
    Arthur Yazovskikh 4 October 2020 12: 07
    0
    These technologies should be dealt with by Private companies with the support of the state, or at least without state overregulation, as well as the ownership rights over the patents of devices and technologies that individuals have come up with. It is known that the state will always lag behind private business and will not be able to compete in the market, despite the large sums of money and their injections, only because the private owner always acts faster on the development of the market, if they do not put a spoke in his wheels.
    1. AML
      AML 4 October 2020 18: 15
      -1
      Oh well. I would have looked where Boeing and Airbus would have been if they had not been subsidized by the state. And market competition is a fairy tale for the poor and the gullible. Look at how large cellular companies deal with competitors. They either buy them out on the vine or nail them there.
  40. Romanenko
    Romanenko 4 October 2020 20: 24
    0
    Of course, we cannot live without microelectronics, just like it is impossible without gas generators, turbines, civilian sea and river fleets, diesel locomotives and electric locomotives, it is impossible without mining and ore processing industries, it is impossible without aircraft construction, it is impossible without everything that we have thoroughly destroyed at the root at the behest from the United States, trying, for some reason, to befriend our enemies.
    And we also cannot live without pride in the state, in the country in which we live, in the best free education in the world, we cannot live without a lot.
    And all this will have to be restored, or become a trash heap, like the countries of the AntiRussia project that surround us.
  41. ifdru74
    ifdru74 4 October 2020 23: 42
    +1
    The Russian market is so microscopic that the production of domestic electronic components can only be subsidized. Do not forget about patent trolling and we find that Rostec has an excellent plan, but it can only be smoked.
  42. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 5 October 2020 09: 13
    -1
    Once Zhvanetsky, while still adequate, clearly indicated: will you again be without us? The engineers grinned crookedly ...
  43. Dedok
    Dedok 5 October 2020 14: 34
    0
    Did you yourself do something with your hands? or even cooler: first we did the documentation, and according to it we did something with our own hands ...
    Most likely not, and you will not understand that for the production of something we need "mechanical engineering", and for development - "engineers".
    Neither one nor the other - we do not, from the word "ALL".
    Fathers-commanders about whom the article is, all this is not interesting. They are doing this against their own will.
    Therefore, instead of "mechanical engineering" we have Taiwanese contractors, and instead of "engineers" - it is not yet known who.
  44. SARANCHA1976
    SARANCHA1976 6 October 2020 07: 35
    0
    Touches the approach of our capitalists to measure everything with grandmothers, they say, 100-500 lemonards and all types of top .. And I still remember the construction of a plant of "nanochips" which was built so much that when it was completed it turned out that this antiquity is no longer needed.
  45. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 7 October 2020 11: 43
    0
    The complete absence of the concept of planning, strategic thinking, advanced development, 30 years promise, fairy tales tell, well, what do you get from them journalists, lawyers, social workers with technology and its development are not in tune. they would have to saw, divide, plan, that's what they can do.
  46. ont65
    ont65 7 October 2020 23: 28
    0
    Does anyone here know that reducing the size of the process technology in products leads to a reduction in their service life? We are talking about short-lived crafts for consumer goods, so that new items are more actively bought. It's just business. We need our own high-quality production lines for the entire existing and developed nomenclature of components, and these are not only crystals, but also a lot of other things, our own technological developments and their implementation on the spot. There are a bunch of issues linked into a single complex that there is no one and there is no need to deal with. The radio industry, the control system and its development do not exist now. And not only her. Microenterprises will not solve the problem.
    1. mainlion
      mainlion 8 October 2020 12: 43
      0
      I once saw the stuffing of Soviet ATGMs: a round printed circuit board on which Soviet metal indestructible diodes are located (such as the D203 case and MLT resistors). It still works. You need to do your own.
    2. mainlion
      mainlion 8 October 2020 12: 46
      0
      Even to revive the Soviet ERE is already an explosion and perfection in the breakthrough of its own electronics.
  47. mainlion
    mainlion 8 October 2020 12: 38
    0
    In the USSR, all electronics were their own. There were Czech microcircuits on TVs, but the Bulgarians were trying to force something there. Everything was different. And it worked. It still works. But rebirth requires brains and will. Better yet, Stalin and Beria. A thousand built enterprises a year are provided. And no dogs of Shuvalov's wife on the plane to England.
  48. nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 October 2020 06: 38
    0
    We do not like to invest in the future, which means that much of what has been planned will not come true.
  49. kultpost
    kultpost 9 October 2020 10: 42
    0
    "Poets" and taxi drivers arguing in the style - "first we need to make a mobile phone for ourselves and not cut the budget" are unlikely to ever be able to launch the production of at least latches or toilet seats.
  50. NF68
    NF68 9 October 2020 16: 25
    0
    It is always difficult to catch up. Especially when miracle managers rule the country.