The parliamentarian asked Pashinyan about the readiness to recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh

It became known that the Prime Minister of Armenia had a telephone conversation with the President of France. As reported by "Armenia 1" TV channel, Nikol Pashinyan discussed the extremely difficult situation in Nagorno-Karabakh.

From the material:

Nikol Pashinyan called on Emmanuel Macron to influence Turkey in order to prevent its interference in the conflict.

This statement was made against the background of news coming from Turkey. They are connected with the fact that the Turkish command has formed a detachment of elite special forces for its possible dispatch to the territory of Azerbaijan.

In a conversation with Macron, Pashinyan said about provocations "which can be used by Azerbaijan even to attack the Armenian capital."

At the same time, the deputy of the Armenian parliament Edmon Marukyan said that he asked Pashinyan his position on the issue of recognizing the independence of the NKR (Republic of Artsakh). According to Marukyan's statement, which is published in the press, Nikol Pashinyan said that this issue should be discussed publicly, "weighing all the pros and cons." However, there was no clarification as to whether the Armenian government was going to submit this issue to a referendum.

At the same time, the aforementioned deputy from the "Enlightened Armenia" faction stated that "there is nowhere to retreat and it is necessary to recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh."

Other political forces in Armenia note that such a step by the country's government could lead to even greater tension in the region and a full-scale war.

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

The recognition of the republic will not relieve tension, that's for sure. Rather, on the contrary, Podillia is fueling the fire.

[mitroha]

the Turkish command has formed a detachment of elite special forces for its possible dispatch to the territory of Azerbaijan.

And on what basis? Has the Sultan confused the coast at all? Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

[jovanni]

Quote: Mitroha

And on what basis?

Based on the strong. He just can afford it. Except for the next portions of "blah-blah-blah", this does not threaten the Sultan. And it is fun for the NATO people that Russia has a new abscess at its side (besides, it is very problematic for us), and Russia will not twitch. We ourselves gave too many levers of pressure on us to the Turks. Some straits are worth ...

[alexmach]

We ourselves gave too many levers of pressure on us to the Turks. Some straits are worth ...

You really did give it yourself ... the Straits :)

[jovanni]

And I did not mean only the current leadership of our country. The problem is over a hundred years old ...

[alexmach]

And I did not mean only the current leadership of our country. The problem is over a hundred years old ...

What problem? The Straits Problem? More than a hundred? That is, more than a hundred years ago, they were ours or what? And then they were taken and given away?

That's really something about something and about the fact that "the straits have given away" to speak extremely strange. By and large, there was no chance to pick them up in history.

[orionvitt]

Quote: alexmach

There has never been a chance to pick them up in history.

There was a chance. More than once. And in the 19th century, and at the beginning of the 20th, and in the middle. Simply, something constantly interfered, or someone intervened. And sometimes, the rulers of Russia were simply faint-hearted.

[alexmach]

Yeah .. there was a chance, but there was no strength for it. This is not a chance at all ...

[orionvitt]

Quote: alexmach

This is not a chance at all ...

What do you think is a chance? As in the famous song, "a chance, it's not a paycheck, it's not an advance, it's just a chance." Chance is not a used opportunity. And what is hindering there, not enough strength, or desire, the weather is bad, or something else, this is the third question.

[alexmach]

I scribbled a long comment, but I got lost.
Firstly, there really was no chance. Even if from some possibility they did not squeeze everything to the last, all the same, that the straits "gave away" it is not correct to say. The straits could not be taken for a hundred years and did not give up.
Further, about the odds point by point:
In the Great Patriotic War, there was no such chance. There the Germans had to be finished off and not to quarrel with the allies. By the way, the allies tried very hard so that the USSR would not have access to the Mediterranean Sea.
In the First World War - excuse me, the Russian Empire simply ceased to exist (the first of the belligerent empires, by the way?) And lost the land - there were no chances to get their hands on something.
In the Crimean War, it is good that Russia did without territorial losses.
In the 8th Russo-Turkish War, yes, it was interesting, but the march to Istanbul was then a risky adventure, very successfully developed, and very timely converted into a negotiating position. In fact, it was not possible to develop it and could threaten the death of the expeditionary corps.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: alexmach

In the Great Patriotic War, there was no such chance. There the Germans had to be finished off and not to quarrel with the allies

Opposite the Turks was the Transcaucasian Front (plus the Black Sea Fleet). To strengthen it and carry out a decisive operation at the final stage of the Second World War is a task that we would then have solved, no doubt.
I also remind you that we fought the war with Japan only part of the liberated forces. At the same time, we were more than capable of resolving the issue of the straits by force. The Turks, just like the Japanese during the Second World War, were mobilized troops on our borders. However, the Japanese answered in full for this, and we forgave the Turks for this fact. Although with them it would be much easier.
Even after the defeat of Japan, our "partners" did not stop trying to resolve their geopolitical issues by force (Korea), but we chose a different path. But it was not a question of possibilities, it was a question of the will to use them.
It was also quite possible to raise a fuss about Turkey's intentions on our borders in order to prepare world public opinion for its disappearance.

[alexmach]

I don’t presume to judge about military capabilities, but it is obvious that before the defeat of Germany and her allies, all forces were directed there.

Make a fuss about turkey's intentions on our borders

It was not a matter of hype. After all, the Yalta conference had already taken place, at which the allies were equipping the future world. To what we agreed and did it.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: alexmach

I can't judge about military capabilities

This is not exactly what should be said about the military capabilities of the USSR in the mid-late 40s in the context of the alleged war with Turkey.

Quote: alexmach

It was not a matter of hype

The hype is an argument for negotiations.

Quote: alexmach

the Yalta conference took place

The division of spheres of influence began in Tehran. If we had the political will, we would have outlined our future actions to resolve the Turkish issue to our allies.

We return to where we started: there was strength, there was no will.

[alexmach]

This is not exactly what should be said about the military capabilities of the USSR in the mid-late 40s in the context of the alleged war with Turkey.

The ratio of the military capabilities of the USSR and Turkey is a "spherical horse in a vacuum." Indeed, at that time on the planet not only the USSR and Turkey were.

The hype is an argument for negotiations.

In the minds of the 21st century man in the street, maybe yes.

The division of spheres of influence began in Tehran. We have political will ..

Doesn't it come to mind that there was something else more important in Tehran-Yalta that had to be negotiated? For example, about what would still finish off Germany and not fight against yesterday's allies?

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: alexmach

The ratio of the military capabilities of the USSR and Turkey is a "spherical horse in a vacuum." Indeed, at that time on the planet not only the USSR and Turkey were.

Then correlate the forces in Europe. We are talking about quite tangible and quantifiable things. The position - who knows - is not appropriate here.

Quote: alexmach

In the minds of the 21st century man in the street, maybe yes.

Said a 21st century man in the street.
If you leaf through the memoirs of our diplomats of that time, or open the same memoirs of Churchill, then you will find for yourself a lot of new things in this regard. The mood of the peoples at that time was a weighty argument in any negotiations. And it would be foolish to think otherwise.

Quote: alexmach

Doesn't it come to mind that there was something else more important in Tehran-Yalta that had to be negotiated?

Here it is. There was simply no time to talk about Turkey? ))
The issue of Turkey was regularly discussed by the allies at almost all conferences held. Churchill directly threatened Turkey with Soviet claims, wishing to cut off her friendly relations with fascist Germany and involve her in the war on the side of the Allies. But Turkey did not succumb to persuasion and pressure, delayed with a decision. The political moment was great. And this was already the second half of the Second World War.

[alexmach]

Here it is. There was simply no time to talk about Turkey? ))

No, there were simply more important priorities in the negotiations, as, for example, what I wrote about above.

Churchill directly threatened Turkey with Soviet claims

Still, threatening Turkey is one thing, but agreeing to the Soviet occupation of Turkey is quite another.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: alexmach

No, there were just more important priorities

In this case, your remark:

Quote: alexmach

After all, the Yalta conference has already taken place, at which the allies were equipping the future world. What we agreed and did

Twice makes no sense.

Quote: alexmach

Still, threatening Turkey is one thing, but agreeing to the Soviet occupation of Turkey is quite another.

They did not agree to the "Soviet occupation" of Poland either. For instance. But there was a political will by us.

Something in the afternoon with fire is not visible lack of opportunities. There is only a lack of desire.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: orionvitt

Chance is not a used opportunity.

this is a potentially realizable opportunity, not just a wishlist.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: alexmach

there was a chance but there was no strength for it

The strength was, the will was not.
In 1943 - 1945 For example.
The reason - the mobilized Turkish troops, lined up along our border during the German offensive on Stalingrad.

[alexmach]

Oh .. That one, yes. Indeed, let us teach Joseph Vissarionovich military affairs and "real politics" and strategic thinking and will for one thing. The Soviet Union and the people, and so during the Great Patriotic War, did the almost impossible, and ensured for itself this, as well as the post-war restoration and development, its existence and peace for the next 50 years.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Mitroha

the Turkish command has formed a detachment of elite special forces for its possible dispatch to the territory of Azerbaijan.

And on what basis? Has the Sultan confused the coast at all? Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

just like that, unpretentious, and we will be drawn.

[g1v2]

In Syria, Turkish special forces without insignia fought for years on the side of the militants, again instructors were for many years. Proven tactics. Turkey considers Azerbaijan its "Belarus", and there is nothing strange in the fact that there are Turkish units and Syrian militants on the Azeri side. But in general, this dispatch means that the Azeris were unable to break through the line of defense of the Armenians. The strength was not enough. We need specialists and cannon fodder. In general, with such help from the Turks and technical equipment, the Azeris should have made serious progress, but it looks like the Armenians were well prepared.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Mitroha

Azerbaijan in this case is the aggressor

why? Because he is trying to return the separatists to the stall? To whom is he the aggressor?

[mitroha]

Let me give you an analogy- Georgia and South Ossetia 08.08

[Scorpio05]

Quote: Mitroha

the Turkish command has formed a detachment of elite special forces for its possible dispatch to the territory of Azerbaijan.

And on what basis? Has the Sultan confused the coast at all? Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

According to what sources are these? Armenian sites?)) Captain America, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Hulk are not sent to Azerbaijan to help yet?) And in general, explain to me how Azerbaijan can be an "aggressor" conducting liberation military operations on the territory of Fizuli, Jebrail and Kelbajar regions of Azerbaijan well, not Armenia? This is where the battles are going now. Let me remind you that these areas do not even belong to Nagorno-Karabakh and were inhabited only by Azerbaijanis, whom the Armenian armed forces partly exterminated and partly expelled from there. According to your logic, the USSR was the aggressor coming out during the liberation of Sevastopol or Smolensk from the Nazis, for example?

[1976AG]

Quote: Mitroha

the Turkish command has formed a detachment of elite special forces for its possible dispatch to the territory of Azerbaijan.

And on what basis? Has the Sultan confused the coast at all? Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

Two or three days before the outbreak of hostilities, there was a report about the transfer from Turkey of three groups of militants to three different regions of Azerbaijan near NK.

[sailor roman]

The Republic of Azerbaijan was created in 1918 by the Ottoman Empire (which ceased to exist in 1922) on the territory of the former Persia (now Iran).

[vkl.47]

Pashinyan is an ordinary taxi driver. Like Tikhon's housewife. These people came on a wave of hype. They can’t do anything. Dummies. And the foolish, brainless fool who tears their throats for them does not understand this.

[Grandfather]

Quote: vkl.47

Pashinyan is an ordinary taxi driver, like the Tikhonovskaya housewife.

zlensky-clown, Nicholas Maduro - bus driver ... a descendant of slaves from Kenya, colonel of the KGB .... it would seem, what is common?

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Dead Day

zlensky-clown, Nicholas Maduro - bus driver ... a descendant of slaves from Kenya, colonel of the KGB .... it would seem, what is common?

but Yeltsin was wow, a solid politician in life

[Grits]

Quote: Stirbjorn

Quote: Dead Day

zlensky-clown, Nicholas Maduro - bus driver ... a descendant of slaves from Kenya, colonel of the KGB .... it would seem, what is common?

but Yeltsin was wow, a solid politician in life

Everybody once started small. Yeltsin was a foreman at a construction site, Brezhnev was a land surveyor, Gorbachev used a combine harvester. Who was Comrade Stalin in his youth - even scary to remember.

[Megatron]

You can treat Yeltsin as you like: good or bad.
But he served two terms and honestly left, and did not invent excuses for himself and the Constitution - he did not wipe himself! Under Yeltsin, there was no censorship of the media, as right now, they did not imprison them for reposts, (no need to write that this was not, read the newspaper headlines of those times) the press was free. Yes, in general, a lot of people could do it without crime: they drove cars, drove clothes, equipment. Whoever wanted - he was spinning and earning. And right now everywhere cops, deputies, bureaucrats, all the air to the people blocked off!

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Megatron

But he served two terms and left honestly,

He also had one head, two arms and two legs. The ears were there too. What is it for?
We do not treat him as you like. We treat him appropriately. But those who build centers for him are treated in an inappropriate manner. Extremely inappropriate. All.

[Megatron]

Uncle, under Yeltsin, oil was at $ 10 per barrel, right now you steer ten, all "stability" will immediately crumble like a house of cards. And while I was 110 each, they took out of the country from 3 to 5 TRILLION $$$, you know whose friends, you can't blame Yeltsin in any way. Yes, and right now, almost 45, and the dollar is growing, the regime at the expense of the population beats off coronavirus payments, the small and medium-sized businesses themselves have ruined their idiotic restrictions.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Megatron

Uncle, under Yeltsin, oil was $ 10 each

I'll tell you more, son. When you weren’t, income from oil sales didn’t go to the budget at all. It was Vova who introduced the appropriate taxes and carried out the nationalization of, in fact, some assets. So it doesn't matter how much it cost there at all, the people were not even going to unfasten anything from this.
You don't remember what happened yesterday. How do you live?

[1976AG]

Yeltsin did not serve two terms, but barely survived two terms. He himself understood that he would not last a third term, so he left.

[Megatron]

Yeah, but right now, in the best traditions of the Politburo, he will only leave the Kremlin with his feet first.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Megatron

Yeah, but right now, in the best traditions of the Politburo, he will leave the Kremlin only feet first

Son, understand a simple thing: an increase in the number of those who disagree with Putin's policy is not able to reduce the number of those who want to spit on Yeltsin's grave. Well, perhaps a tiny percentage of citizens who are completely deprived of intelligence, sincerely believe that if one is bad, then the other must necessarily be good, and are not able to fit something else in their tiny mind.

[Megatron]

I'm not your son, wrestling, or whatever you are. I never said that Yeltsin was good.
I - for the law and the change of power, but right now we have neither one nor the other.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Megatron

I'm not your son

Have you ever thought that your mom has a right to her own secrets?

[Megatron]

That's it, the arguments are over, is there an obvious nonsense already?
And it seemed to me that schoolchildren were not sitting here to write "jokes about mothers".

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Megatron

arguments are over

The arguments are outlined. And this, in the context of the issue under discussion, is a comprehensive set for anyone who knows how to use the brain.
And now, accordingly, I can have a little fun, enjoying a little revenge on you for "uncle". A relative was found.

[Megatron]

Well, how can I say, the word "uncle" was used by me just to communicate and designate the gender of the interlocutor, from the series: "man, pass the fare", but judging by your recent bazaar statements, I will henceforth call you "aunt", this is for you more suitable, your level, habalka street vendor.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Megatron

the word "uncle" was used by me

You don't have to explain. We all know perfectly well how and in what cases people used to use this word.

[Megatron]

Oh, the habalka aunt is also trying to get around the autocensor. Do not tear the fart from the strain, Borisovna.

[Maximilian37]

That is, you have Nicolas Maduro Moros priority in terms of spelling surnames according to the norms of the Russian language? Why write surnames selectively?

[Grandfather]

Quote: Maximilian37

Why write surnames selectively?

what do you think?

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

The recognition of the republic will not relieve tension, that's for sure. Rather, on the contrary, Podillia is fueling the fire.

All wrong. The recognition of the independence of the NKR will lead to a complete settlement of the conflict.
Instant occupation of the NKR by Azerbaijan and "selection selection" among the population of the NKR.
Yes, it’s a pity for Armenia to leave NK, this suitcase without a handle and no strength to carry.

[Maximilian37]

but what about the CSTO?

[Grandfather]

Quote: Maximilian37

but what about the CSTO?

NK which side?

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Maximilian37

but what about the CSTO?

NKR is not a member of the CSTO.

[svoit]

Turkey recognized the republic of northern Cyprus and the world has not turned upside down, as it still lives. Yes, and you don't feel much tension

[Livonetc]

Will recognition of Karabakh's independence help this?
It may be more rational to try to calm down again mutually.
A thin world is all one better.
We remember how Iran fought with Iraq.
It didn't lead to anything good.

[stalki]

This is the price of pseudo-independence. Everyone is for himself and everyone is against everyone. The main thing is not to involve third parties, otherwise they will take something good and settle the conflict.

[U-Gin78]

Armenians of all countries ...
If anyone besides Russia will support Armenia, then only distant relatives - the French.
The question is, why are they going to discuss the recognition of Karabakh just now?
Probably not worth it, the war will not be pulled to the last Armenian!

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: U-Gin78

If someone other than Russia supports Armenia

why should Russia take sides in this fuss?

[U-Gin78]

What about CSTO membership, base in Gyumri?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

why should Russia take sides in this fuss?

Since the Russian Federation is bound by an agreement with Armenia on the CSTO, and in the event of Azeibarzhan's aggression, we will have to intercede. And secondly, we definitely do not need another hot conflict near our borders. Therefore, everything will be done to either freeze it for another 30 years, or to decide amicably, which, I think, is not possible.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: NEXUS

Since the Russian Federation is bound by an agreement with Armenia on the CSTO, and in the event of Azeibarjan's aggression, we will have to stand up.

Has Armenia applied to the CSTO secretariat? At the moment, she has no plans.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

Has Armenia applied to the CSTO secretariat? At the moment, she has no plans.

We read carefully, not diagonally ...

Quote: NEXUS

and in case of Azeibarzhan's aggression, we will have to stand up.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

So read carefully Article 4 of the Agreement, paragraph 2.
The question is the same: has Armenia applied to the secretariat for help?

[Maximilian37]

that is, it follows from your words that since Armenia did not apply to the CSTO secretariat, this means that Russia should automatically intervene?

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Maximilian37

that is, it follows from your words that since Armenia did not apply to the CSTO secretariat, this means that Russia should automatically intervene?

from my words it does not follow, do not play the fool.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

Has Armenia applied to the CSTO secretariat? At the moment, she has no plans.

So it makes sense to apply if Azerbaijan did not attack the territory of Armenia. And Karabakh at the moment, according to international law, is the territory of Azerbaijan.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Stirbjorn

So it makes sense to apply if Azerbaijan did not attack the territory of Armenia.

That's it. Why should the Russian Federation "stand up" for Armenia, even if it is at least three times a member of the CSTO?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

That's it. Why should the Russian Federation "stand up" for Armenia, even if it is at least three times a member of the CSTO?

You don’t know how to read Russian, or are you turning on the fool on purpose? I wrote in black in Russian-

Quote: NEXUS

and in case of Azeibarzhan's aggression,

[Grandfather]

Quote: NEXUS

Since the Russian Federation is bound by an agreement with Armenia on the CSTO, and in the event of Azeibarjan's aggression, we will have to stand up.

Andrey, Karabakh has nothing to do with it.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Dead Day

Andrey, Karabakh has nothing to do with it.

Where did I say that Karabakh has to do with it? I said that IN THE CASE OF THE MILITARY AGGRESSION OF AZEYBARJAN, THAT IS AN ATTACK ON ARMENIA (not Armenia will be the first to unleash a war, but Azeibarjan!), The Russian Federation will have to intervene under the CSTO agreement. Only in THIS case will the agreement work. CSTO. In the opposite case, if Yerevan is the first to rock the boat, then we have the right not to interfere, because Yerevan will be the aggressor who unleashed the war.
And that's why Yerevan will not be the first to climb, because it does not want to be left in splendid isolation in this conflict. That is why Pashinyan calls Putin.

[Megatron]

The couch warrior Andriy checked himself in here too, I hope I bought tickets before the aptsakh, for the record as a volunteer?

[Scorpio05]

What is it like? "Spiteful" and "aggressive" Azerbaijan attacked poor Armenian sheep on the territory of Azerbaijan? What a bad Azerbaijan, wants to occupy the territory of Armenia ... Azerbaijan. The battles with the Armenian army are actually going on in the Fizuli, Jebrail and Kelbajar regions of Azerbaijan, this is not even Nagorno-Karabakh, but the internal regions of Azerbaijan.

[Operator]

It's strange, I can't publish in the comments a direct quote from a note (about the sinking of Nagorno-Karabakh by "a man from the people" Nikol Pashinyan) - like it (quote) contains a text that is inadmissible for publication

I wonder what the predecessors of Pashinyan did for 30 years in independent Armenia, who walked around and around on bent legs and refused to recognize the independence of the NKR - they were waiting for someone (for example, Russia) to present it to them on a platter with a blue border?

I remember how in the late 1980s, demonstrations of many thousands were held in Yerevan with a request to hand over Kalash to the Armenians so that they could go to liberate Western Armenia with Ararat in addition - with the aim of provoking a war between the USSR and NATO, obviously.

[Victorio]

Quote: Operator

I remember how in the late 1980s, thousands of demonstrations were held in Yerevan with a request to hand over the Kalash to the Armenians,

===
make some noise, but do stupid things in the heat of the arsenal of all / many Caucasians. and sober ones packed their bags, but to Russia. Stavropol and Krasnodar Territory they then saddled tightly.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

This statement was made against the background of news coming from Turkey. They are connected with the fact that the Turkish command has formed a detachment of elite special forces for its possible dispatch to the territory of Azerbaijan.

The source of the "news", of course, is not known))
Me the phrase "formed a squad elite special forces"liked it. How was the paintball team on the weekend?

[tatra]

The enemies of the communists, who seriously imagined that they were more than the communists and their supporters worthy and capable of owning the country, were only able to create a bunch of problems for the country and the people, but they were categorically incapable of either solving the problems they had created, or even honestly, objectively discussing the problems, and all 30 years after their seizure and dismemberment of the USSR they cowardly dump the blame for the problems they created on the Soviet communists, on each other, and they do not solve the problems, but only accumulate them. They have not solved this problem of Nagorno-Karabakh in 30 years, and will never solve it, and they will periodically unleash wars among themselves, simultaneously killing the civilian population.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: tatra

Enemies of the communists

again these mythical creatures ...

[tatra]

The enemies of the communists on the territory of the USSR are all over the anomaly of mankind, including the fact that when they, 100 years after the seizure of Russia by the communists, prove that they are the fierce enemies of the communists, as they call it, they go into hysterics.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

(putting off Kafka) continue, please!

[certero]

Quote: Mitroha

Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

Actually, Azerbaijan is trying to regain its own territory.

[Stils]

Quote: certero

Quote: Mitroha

Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

Actually, Azerbaijan is trying to regain its own territory.

By force, several decades after the loss? Japan, Ukraine, Georgia also wants to return "their" territory, and?

[VyacheSeymour]

Quote: certero
Quote: Mitroha
Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

Actually, Azerbaijan is trying to regain its own territory.

By force, several decades after the loss?

And that he lost it voluntarily and without the use of force?
And that someone signed a peace treaty or capitulation?
And that the armies have gone home and are not sitting in the trenches clinging to their sights?
And that the negotiations were not about someone's ownership of Karabakh?
And that by the time of the current exacerbation the war had already ended?

[Stils]

Quote: VyacheSeymour

Quote: certero
Quote: Mitroha
Azerbaijan in this case is an aggressor, if anything. Regardless of the opinions of the parties about the NKR's belonging.

Actually, Azerbaijan is trying to regain its own territory.

By force, several decades after the loss?

And that he lost it voluntarily and without the use of force?
And that someone signed a peace treaty or capitulation?
And that the armies have gone home and are not sitting in the trenches clinging to their sights?
And that the negotiations were not about someone's ownership of Karabakh?
And that by the time of the current exacerbation the war had already ended?

With a stroke of the pen during the civil war, the Bolsheviks transferred these lands to the Azkrbajdan SSR. It is unclear how these decisions were made, for example, they gave the Donbass to the Ukrainian SSR. During the years of the USSR, the number of Armenians in NKAO ranged from 80-90% of the total population of NKAO. It turns out interesting, right? The lands inhabited by Armenians belong to Azerbaijan. As if the Armenians do not quite agree with this, they simply do not want ethnic cleansing. Let Azerbaijan fight for "its lands". The main thing is that the navel does not come loose.

[Scorpio05]

And who said that with a stroke of a pen someone gave something to someone? Why lie?
On July 5, 1921, a meeting of the Caucasian Bureau was held on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh. On the initiative of Ordzhonikidze and NAZARETYAN (!), The issue of the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh is again raised. The new meeting made a decision: "Based on the need for national peace between Muslims and Armenians and the economic ties of Upper and Lower Karabakh, its permanent ties with Azerbaijan, Nagorno-Karabakh TO LEAVE (!) Within the Azerbaijan SSR, granting it broad regional autonomy with the administrative center in the mountains . Shusha, part of the autonomous region. "
And even earlier, the Armenians themselves renounced Nagorno-Karabakh:
As for the Armenian claims on Karabakh, the diplomatic mission reminded Chicherin: "In Batum, Kachaznuni and Khatisyan, negotiating with the Turks (meaning the peace conference in Batum in May-June 1918 - G. G.) agreed to give Karabakh to Azerbaijan" ( To Chicherin's Foreign Drug from the diplomatic mission of Soviet Russia in Irevan, November, 1920 // GA AR, f. 28, op.1, d.38, l.15).

On May 22, 1919 Anastas Mikoyan in a telegram to V.I. Lenin noted: “Dashnaks, agents of the Armenian government, are seeking accession of Karabakh to Armenia. But for the people of Karabakh, this would mean losing the source of their life in Baku and contacting Erivan, with which they had never been connected with anything. The Armenian peasantry at the fifth congress decided to join Azerbaijan. ” (The Central Party Archive of the Institute of Marxism-Leninism under the Central Committee of the CPSU - CPA IML, f. 461, op. 1, unit store 4525, l. 1.)

[VyacheSeymour]

It turns out interesting, right? The lands inhabited by Armenians belong to Azerbaijan.

... And the lands inhabited by more than a hundred hundred peoples belong to Russia ... - It turns out interesting, right? ... - This is how the world works ...
There are more than 7000 thousand languages ​​in the world ... and there are even more nations ...
-BUT THERE IS THE STATE (minus the peoples with several state formations) AND 2 HUNDREDS WILL NOT BE ABLE ...- It turns out interesting, right?
And what are the long-suffering favorites of the rest?

[VyacheSeymour]

By force, several decades after the loss? Japan, Ukraine, Georgia also wants to return "their" territory, and?

Russia returned Crimea (in a few decades), and? ... Are you against?

[Kapral Alphych]

I have this opinion - this is another part of the plan to turn the former CIS into the first line of attack on us. If we stand up for Armenia, the Azerbaijanis and their patrons will take up the slogan "Russia is the aggressor" in the education of militant youth. Don't intercede - in Armenia. And in any case, they will try to do it in both countries. Someone just wants to force things. Further Belarus, Kazakhstan. And now, the "wild hordes" are ready, which are just waiting for the signal to start cutting the "Russia" from the Baltic to the Far East. United Europe will follow. And finally, the main organizers are the USA.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Kapral Alphitch

I have this opinion - this is another part of the plan to turn the former CIS into the first line of attack on us. If we stand up for Armenia, the Azerbaijanis and their patrons will take up the slogan "Russia is the aggressor" in the education of militant youth. Don't intercede - in Armenia. And in any case, they will try to do it in both countries. Someone just wants to force things. Further Belarus, Kazakhstan. And now, the "wild hordes" are ready, which are just waiting for the signal to start cutting the "Russia" from the Baltic to the Far East. United Europe will follow. And finally, the main organizers are the USA.

The USA has a rather strong pro-Armenian lobby, as well as in other Western countries. Moreover, Pashinyan is more a pro-American politician than a pro-Russian ... so it is doubtful that this is their game. There are elections in the USA now, they don't care about the world until they decide what force will take the throne and which path America will take + China worries them very much ... and if they started to act, it would rather be against China (while Trump is at the helm), they will come Biden there will already be a different story, but in any case, he and Azerbaijan are not up to Armenia now, but you shouldn't underestimate the role of Turkey, the situation in Syria, Libya, with Cyprus-Greece on the one hand and Turkey on the other, shows very well the picture of expansion influence of Turkey and an attempt to redistribute influence.

[Kapral Alphych]

The USA has a rather strong pro-Armenian lobby, as well as in other Western countries.

Stronger than a Jewish chutzpah? Unlikely! Namely, the Jewish capital runs the show there! And the money of smart-ass Armenians is most likely in the same place, in Jewish banks or under their control! And moneybags never (with rare exceptions) do not differ in love for their homeland!

There are elections in the United States now, they do not care about the world until it is determined which force will take the throne and along which path America

in America, one hand does not always know what the other is doing. Or everyone is doing his own thing - some are fighting on the external front, others on the internal. And rarely do their interests intersect.

+ China

What about China? He can only threaten the United States economically, the Americans are simply clicking on his nose, showing him his place. After all, we have not even seen a serious cut there. And it is not known where China will trample in the event of an open conflict between NATO and Russia. Maybe on us, having decided to expand the resource and technological base before the future confrontation with the United States.
This is how I see this situation.)

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Kapral Alphich

In my opinion, this is another part of the plan to turn the former CIS into the first line of attack on us.

The damned adversaries sharpen axes ... Russia is in permanent danger. It would be necessary to rally more closely around ..... Around whom, by the way?

Quote: Kapral Alphich

And now, the "wild hordes" are ready, which are just waiting for the signal to start cutting the "Russia" from the Baltic to the Far East.

ittit-poke ... That's right with this geography - pogroms from Kaliningrad to Khabarovsk ????

[Kapral Alphych]

ittit-poke ... That's right with this geography - pogroms from Kaliningrad to Khabarovsk ????

now we take the atlas, my young friend, and we look carefully, we lead with our finger - Finland - Estonia - Latvia - Belarus - Ukraine - Turkey (sea) - Azerbaijanis - Turkmenistan - Kazakhstan - Japan - South Korea and oops, where is our finger? Right! Not far from Vladik and Khabarovsk! China is a big question mark. This is still that monkey with a grenade, and it is not known where it will throw it!
And your first paragraph is generally just your wet fantasies.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Kapral Alphitch

And your first paragraph is generally just your wet fantasies.

No, dear comrade with a finger in the atlas, not mine, but yours. You re-read your comments.

[Kapral Alphych]

No, dear comrade with a finger in the atlas, not mine, but yours. You re-read your comments

Hence, in more detail - where and with whom, or under whose leadership I spoke / wrote, do you need to unite?
But do not neglect the atlas and the finger - the first will broaden your horizons, and the second will not grow a new one if something happens.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Gorbachev (so that he could burn in hell) "prevented" a civil war

[Larch]

Nikol Pashinyan called on Emmanuel Macron to influence Turkey in order to prevent its interference in the conflict

Between the lines - knowing the "strained" relations between France and Turkey, Pashinyan asks at least some help from Macron.

[taiga2018]

Well, what are you going to do, Nikol, it's not for you to wander around Armenia with a backpack, to trouble the people ...

[Stils]

Yes, it will be difficult to sign a peace treaty in the vicinity of Baku.

[Galleon]

If Nicholas I awarded the then Turkey with the epithet "an old sick person", then the current Turetchina resembles some kind of aggressive, mentally inadequate neighbor of late puberty, who needs strong orderlies for treatment besides a doctor. Syria, Iraq, Libya, now their hands are drawn to Armenia, Greece is a permanent bullying. Will this fool be haunted? Who needs this "neighbor"?

[Stils]

Quote: Galleon

If Nicholas I awarded the then Turkey with the epithet "an old sick person", then the current Turetchina resembles some kind of aggressive, mentally inadequate neighbor of late puberty, who needs strong orderlies for treatment besides a doctor. Syria, Iraq, Libya, now their hands are drawn to Armenia, Greece is a permanent bullying. Will this fool be haunted? Who needs this "neighbor"?

You have not mentioned Cyprus. Meanwhile, almost a third of the island is occupied by Turkey. And it's okay, they live for 45 years, no one really pulls the Turks.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Galleon

then the current Turetchina resembles some kind of aggressive, mentally inadequate neighbor of late puberty, who, in addition to a doctor, needs strong orderlies for treatment.

there is nothing more pitiful than the attempts of the "heirs" of empires that have sunk into oblivion to revive them. It concerns not only Erdi.

[Vladimir61]

Both Armenia, represented by Pashinyan, and Azerbaijan, represented by Aliyev, turned out to be a "bad" and predictable instrument in big politics! For all the solidarity with the Armenian people, it is difficult not to take into account the fact that the Azerbaijanis were “warmed up” by Turkey, and the Armenians were “warmed up” by the United States. At the same time, the United States and Turkey not only confront each other and realize their global interests, but also play together against Russia, and for the United States, this is the main and main goal.
The people must decide for themselves whether they need puppeteers, whether they need executors of someone else's will in power, whether they need a bloody war. There are international norms and these norms define the right of the people and national minorities to self-determination and independence!

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Vladimir61

With all solidarity with the Armenian people

why are you so in solidarity with him? Is there an intimate reason?

[Vladimir61]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

why are you so in solidarity with him? Is there an intimate reason?

Are you having sexual problems? Goes to a psychologist, or better to a proctologist, it will feel better.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Vladimir61

Are you having sexual problems?

Do you somehow immediately associate the word "intimate" with this? Yes, solidarity with the Armenian people left a mark ...

[Scorpio05]

Yes, a "bad tool", in order to please you Azerbaijan should probably give up about half of its territory in favor of Armenia, although they are from their own country.

[certero]

Quote: Stils

Japan, Ukraine, Georgia

All mixed up in one heap?

[Stils]

Do they want to return the territories?

[Ela myaushkina]

Karabakh, no-man's, buffer zone. This is not the territory of Armenia to defend it. And if Armenians or people with Armenian passports lived there, this does not mean anything, just as it does not mean that this is an Armenian land. Armenia carried out the occupation of Karabakh and tried to Armenize it to the maximum. Even the Grigoryan churches were built there. Azerbaijan, however, considers this territory to be its primordially, and in response to the provocation of Armenia, it began to finally liberate it, which had been dreamed of for a very long time. And now, the dream has come true. And the fact that Azerbaijan managed to occupy and liberate, even if by some miracle the conflict stops, it will not give up the liberated and occupied, for nothing.

So the war in Kabarakh is not considered Azerbaijan's invasion of Armenia, which means that there should not be any assistance within the CSTO, because this is not an attack on Armenia and its legal territory. And Russia should not get involved in the conflict. Otherwise, Azerbaijan will lose as a trade and economic partner and it will finally go under Turkish and NATO influence.

[Stils]

Quote: Ela Myaushkina

And now, the dream has come true.

Is it over yet? Won, won?

[Maximilian37]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

Quote: Maximilian37

that is, it follows from your words that since Armenia did not apply to the CSTO secretariat, this means that Russia should automatically intervene?

from my words it does not follow, do not play the fool.

Thinking over the answers for a long time, and then simultaneously in different publics, you give me the answers. I don't know which side you are on, but Comrade Major, you have to be careful!

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

what nonsense ... What publics? What is "synchronous"? Are you an overdose conspiracy theorist?

[Maximilian37]

apparently! Let it be so, I will not interfere with the work))))

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

apparently! Let it be so, I will not interfere with the work))))

apparently! Let it be so, I will not interfere with the work))))

[Unknown]

In Russia, at the moment, there are two numerous diasporas, Azerbaijani and Armenian, and representatives of the former prefer Russia than Turkey. Well, there are probably a little more Armenians in France. they all do their business in RF. legally and semi-criminally, but they do not lose ties with their historical homeland; on the contrary, they actively participate in the life of their national entities. GDP does not need to communicate by phone with both rulers to stop this conflict. it is enough to cut off oxygen in Russia to all businessmen, of both nationalities, and it will end immediately. There will be no Aliyev or Pashinyan there. there will be silence and order. but this is not included in the plans of the current rulers of R.F.

[Vladimir61]

When two "Indians" dig up the hatchet, one hiding behind the USA and the other with Turkey, the question is not only who will leave him first, but who will be more dodgy in politics! This is what Pashinyan is now trying to demonstrate by calling not his "friends" in the United States, but Russia. "Friend", got off with general, declarative statements. I think that it will not succeed in dragging Russia and the CSTO into the conflict. Azerbaijan will not attack directly on Armenia, there too, no fools.

[yehat2]

It seems to me that Karabakh should be recognized not as independent, but as neutral and autonomous. A territory where the peoples of both countries will be able to move freely without asking the leadership of both former republics. The functions of the state are to be carried out jointly, and local self-government will resolve economic issues. For example, a joint protectorate.
Taxes can be a controversial point, but they are unlikely to be very much argued.
I don't understand, what for to fight.

[fa2998]

Quote: Mitroha

Azerbaijan in this case is the aggressor,

Actually, Karabakh is located in Azerbaijan. Only populated mainly by Armenians. Karabakh for Armenia is Donbass for Russia (on the map as in Ukraine, but inhabited by Russians). No need for double standards.
RS in the late 80s, visited those places on service (BB) - "reconciled" the Transcaucasian peoples. Nedomiril!