Military Review

Borisov spoke about Russian weapons devaluing the American missile defense system

211
Borisov spoke about Russian weapons devaluing the American missile defense system

All attempts by the Americans to create an anti-missile defense system are devalued by the fact that Russia has a maneuvering hypersonic missile unit Avangard. This was stated by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov on the air of the TV channel "Russia-1".


When it (block - approx.) Changes the trajectory of its movement, it is impossible to predict when, where it will be at the next moment in time, where to direct the anti-missile. Therefore, it devalues ​​all the efforts that America spends today in the first place to create an anti-missile defense

- he said.

At the same time, Borisov noted that he does not exclude the creation of defensive systems aimed at combating hypersonic maneuvering units, but this will be all in the future, but for now Russia has a significant advantage over the United States.

Recall that the first regiment, which adopted the newest strategic missile system with a hypersonic gliding cruise warhead Avangard, took up combat duty at the end of last year in the Dombarovskiy (Yasnenskiy) formation in the Orenburg region.

At present, the carriers of the Avangard hypersonic units are the UR-100N UTTKh ICBMs; in the future, the new Sarmat intercontinental missiles will become their carriers.
211 comments
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  1. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 26 September 2020 14: 41
    +3
    If a warhead from the newest Amy is installed on the vanguard, then its detonation at an altitude will kill the entire electronic unit in the area of ​​500 km
    1. hrych
      hrych 26 September 2020 14: 46
      +4
      And Poseidon will kill everyone within a radius of 500 km
    2. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 26 September 2020 15: 27
      +3
      If a warhead from the newest Amy is installed on the vanguard, then its detonation at an altitude will kill the entire electronic unit in the area of ​​500 km

      Surely there is such an idea. For subsequent missiles, the area must be cleared of electronics.
      1. olegfbi
        olegfbi 26 September 2020 15: 42
        +2
        Quote: Interlocutor
        If a warhead from the newest Amy is installed on the vanguard, then its detonation at an altitude will kill the entire electronic unit in the area of ​​500 km

        Surely there is such an idea. For subsequent missiles, the area must be cleared of electronics.

        Eeee ..., have I forgotten something or do not understand?
        The explosion of a special ammunition implies a powerful EMP at the same time. In that case, why the follow-up missiles ...?
        1. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 26 September 2020 16: 37
          +9
          The explosion of a special ammunition implies a powerful EMP at the same time. In that case, why the follow-up missiles ...?


          And if "not to kill to death"? bully laughing bully We give them an entenet ops ... all over the country ... They will die out of boredom in the evening without Twitter and Mordabuk ...
    3. Imperial Technocrat
      Imperial Technocrat 27 September 2020 02: 28
      0
      At the Vanguard 2MT thermonuclear head. Designed to destroy major cities
    4. MrFox
      MrFox 27 September 2020 18: 22
      0
      Can you confirm this with calculations?
  2. Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 14: 43
    -29 qualifying.
    I have not heard a fairy tale from Yuri Borisov for a long time. He was telling tales about "Sarmat", now he switched to "Vanguard" ...
    1. Arabfun
      Arabfun 26 September 2020 14: 47
      -34 qualifying.
      Developers should be scolded in general, but he put them on alert.
      1. Volder
        Volder 26 September 2020 20: 49
        +4
        Quote: Arabfun
        Developers should be scolded in general, but he put them on alert.
        Scold for devaluing the American missile defense system? Well, the Americans are scolding for sure.
        1. military_cat
          military_cat 27 September 2020 00: 30
          -5
          The American missile defense system does not aim to repel attacks from Russia. Equally, both for new missiles and for old ones, it cannot and is not designed for this.
        2. Imperial Technocrat
          Imperial Technocrat 27 September 2020 02: 29
          0
          This is a 404 locksmith
    2. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 26 September 2020 15: 27
      +1
      He was telling tales about "Sarmat", now he switched to "Vanguard" ...

      and what is in your concept of "not a fairy tale"?
      1. ancient
        ancient 26 September 2020 15: 48
        +5
        Quote: Interlocutor
        and what is in your concept of "not a fairy tale"?

        A simple explanation of the laws of physics and thermodynamics ... otherwise it turns out we all, well, in particular, I did not study at that school and not so ... "as it should"? wassat
        "... this system differs from the existing types of combat equipment the ability to fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at an intercontinental range at a hypersonic speed exceeding the Mach number by more than 20 times " (Vladimir Putin).
        Excuse me .. how? belay
        1. Joker62
          Joker62 26 September 2020 16: 26
          -5
          Quote: ancient
          Quote: Interlocutor
          and what is in your concept of "not a fairy tale"?

          A simple explanation of the laws of physics and thermodynamics ... otherwise it turns out we all, well, in particular, I did not study at that school and not so ... "as it should"? wassat
          "... this system differs from the existing types of combat equipment the ability to fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at an intercontinental range at a hypersonic speed exceeding the Mach number by more than 20 times " (Vladimir Putin).
          Excuse me .. how? belay

          This means that the Vanguard block will have the first space velocity. Knowing this speed, divided by the speed of sound, you will get an approximate value, which was announced by our guarantor.
          1. ancient
            ancient 26 September 2020 16: 52
            -5
            Quote: Joker62
            block "Vanguard" will have the first space velocity

            Yes, at least .. "hyperspace" wassat ... How does he perform MANEUVERAGE ??? belay
            1. 1976AG
              1976AG 26 September 2020 17: 37
              +1
              Quote: ancient
              Quote: Joker62
              block "Vanguard" will have the first space velocity

              Yes, at least .. "hyperspace" wassat ... How does he perform MANEUVERAGE ??? belay

              Due to the engines installed on the warhead.
              1. ancient
                ancient 26 September 2020 17: 40
                0
                Quote: 1976AG
                Due to the engines installed on the warhead.

                Oh, how ..., okay ... and what about the engines ... if it's not a secret .... because ... the VKG said that it was a .. "gliding block" ... of course the same happens with a glider "motor" lol
                1. 1976AG
                  1976AG 26 September 2020 17: 43
                  +3
                  It is with a motor, and also has plumage, which helps to maneuver along the course and height. though the height there is not very small, that is, the atmosphere is not very dense.
                  1. ancient
                    ancient 26 September 2020 18: 23
                    +6
                    Quote: 1976AG
                    It is with a motor, and also has plumage, which helps to maneuver along the course and height. though the height there is not very small, that is, the atmosphere is not very dense.

                    Where have you read such .. "nonsense"? belay
                    For such "deep maneuvers" in near space, with the help of (some sort of) thrust, more fuel will be required than for reaching ... the ballistic trajectory of the carrier itself wassat
                    Sometimes it doesn't hurt to think ... before you write wink .
                    1. 1976AG
                      1976AG 26 September 2020 18: 27
                      -5
                      I do not know where you get the information from, but it was advisable to study a little at school first, and then read some comments from experts. And only then to be clever.
                      1. ancient
                        ancient 26 September 2020 18: 47
                        +3
                        Quote: 1976AG
                        but it was advisable to study a little at school first,

                        I will definitely take into account your wishes and ... from Monday I will go to the 1st grade of primary school wassat
                      2. 1976AG
                        1976AG 26 September 2020 18: 48
                        -1
                        What can I say ... clever)
                      3. Rushnairfors
                        Rushnairfors 27 September 2020 17: 46
                        -1
                        1976AG uncle is "ancient" as a BAF reserve officer of the Air Force, a military pilot, he has everything ok with education, unlike the numerous experts who appear on TV, and among the "local" sofa generals, so I would relate to his opinion and reasoning with attention and respect.
                  2. JD1979
                    JD1979 26 September 2020 19: 33
                    +2
                    So throw off the links to comments))) We also want to be smart. Yes, in your elementary school, they explained to you that real specialists who are related to the development of these tools have interesting subscriptions))) and cannot write comments) Hence the question, and from what couch are your specialists? well and you as well.
            2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 18: 24
          -1
          read the internet
          Avangard "- a Russian missile system equipped with a guided warhead !!!!!!
          The warheads of the Avangard complex have their own engines and can maneuver along the trajectory both in direction and in speed. The control system allows you to quickly change the flight task and the distribution of targets before launch
          1. 1976AG
            1976AG 26 September 2020 18: 57
            0
            The developers of the Vanguard minus you for false information)
            1. Nastia makarova
              Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 19: 00
              -3
              but how to see who put the cons?
              1. 1976AG
                1976AG 26 September 2020 19: 01
                0
                I don't know, it was possible before, but now it seems not. Yes, I didn't try like that ...
              2. The comment was deleted.
        3. rtutaloe
          rtutaloe 26 September 2020 21: 37
          +4
          Well, it is clear that trying to talk on TV is not about rolling bags. "In dense layers of the atmosphere" "maneuvering" "at a hypersonic speed of 21 km / h" is clearly something superfluous here. Even when switching to supersonic, it had to solve the problems of maneuvering, and hypersound in dense layers of the atmosphere. Although, depending on what is considered as maneuvering, here and a small deviation in degrees in 000 seconds will take the rocket tens of kilometers from the straight line. Of course, if the main engine does not work throughout the entire flight path, or is partially switched on with maneuverable gas rudders at the required time, then no maneuvering is possible. Most likely, the rocket will fly in space or along a "jumping" trajectory, as the Germans developed it, and the USSR had similar projects. In open space, you can somehow steer. And "in the" dense layers of the atmosphere "- it is unlikely: expensive.
          1. poquello
            poquello 26 September 2020 21: 48
            -1
            Quote: rtutaloe
            In open space, you can somehow steer. And "in the" dense layers of the atmosphere "- it is unlikely: expensive.

            ask the Americans, here a few years ago, some comrades argued that the United States has blocks similar to poplar trees
            1. rtutaloe
              rtutaloe 27 September 2020 15: 02
              0
              And what has to do with the blocks similar to poplars, this time, and secondly, do they need "similar" ones, if they still have aalom from the Soviet period. By the way, they have more nuclear warheads than Russia and strategic nuclear bombers too. )
              1. poquello
                poquello 27 September 2020 15: 27
                0
                Quote: rtutaloe
                And where does this have blocks similar to poplar trees,

                with UBB poplar)))))))))))))))), and how do the American "who had" theirs and ask)))))))
          2. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 27 September 2020 20: 22
            -1
            Quote: rtutaloe
            "maneuver" "at a hypersonic speed of 21 km / h"

            When the block leaves orbit, its speed is slightly lower than the first space speed. And it wasn't maneuvering that was the problem. At this time, the unit is wrapped in plasma and because of this, it does not have the opportunity to receive information on its own or to receive it from the outside, so it does not know where to steer. And it looks like ours solved this problem.
            By the way, this problem was dealt with even when our "lapotki" were launched.
        4. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 27 September 2020 11: 57
          0
          Quote: ancient
          MANEUVERING???

          The fact that you do not know about something does not mean that it does not exist, yeah. yes Or is the admission and retirement valid? wink
      2. maktub
        maktub 26 September 2020 22: 19
        0
        More than 20 "swings" in the dense layers of the atmosphere, will the block not be erased from ear to ear?
        Maybe in the upper atmosphere?
    3. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 26 September 2020 16: 34
      +5
      "... this system differs from the existing types of combat equipment by its ability to fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at an intercontinental range at a hypersonic speed exceeding the Mach number by more than 20 times" (VV Putin).
      Excuse me .. how? belay

      Honestly, I don’t know.
      But on the day when missiles were launched from the Caspian Sea against militants in Syria, one military expert said on the radio. No, this is not possible - we must wait until the General Staff says officially.
      This is what I mean .... Let it not fly today, but fly on day "H", at that distance and at the speed about which military journalists will write "we are waiting for the official report of the General Staff." Or there will be nothing.
      After "Sarmatian" there will be no one to read and there is nothing special to listen to.
      1. ancient
        ancient 26 September 2020 16: 53
        +6
        Quote: Interlocutor
        Honestly, I don’t know.

        Here I am about the same drinks
        1. Volder
          Volder 26 September 2020 21: 20
          0
          Quote: ancient
          Quote: Interlocutor
          Honestly, I don’t know.

          Here I am about the same drinks

          Be afraid. You are not supposed to know. You will be the last to be told :)
          1. ancient
            ancient 27 September 2020 13: 14
            +1
            Quote: Volder
            Be scared.

            Calm .. like a mammoth wassat
            Quote: Volder
            You are not supposed to know.

            As a child I watched the TV magazine constantly ... "I want to know everything" wink (future profession, understands ... obliged) wink
            And you...? Shaking the noodles off your ears is possible ... without education? wassat
      2. Vitaly gusin
        Vitaly gusin 26 September 2020 22: 14
        +1
        Quote: Interlocutor
        Honestly, I don’t know.

        Hypersonic accelerated gliding weapons work by using a multistage ballistic missile as the acceleration phase, propelling the vehicle into low-Earth orbit, which then descends and begins to glide at hypersonic speed along the boundary of the atmosphere. As the vehicle descends to the ground, it pulls upward and begins to slide through the atmosphere in the "slip" phase, before diving down towards its target in the final phase.
        the spacecraft can reach Mach 27, this is only true during a brief reentry phase, when it falls back to earth like a rock from near-earth orbit, before starting its hypersonic glide at the edges of the atmosphere.


        This system is very expensive and does not justify the investment in its development.
        These developments were in the USSR and the USA.
        Today's cheaper ICBMs can be delivered with multiple reentry missiles and multiple penetrations or decoys, creating a complex threat cloud that makes interception unlikely.
        1. ancient
          ancient 27 September 2020 13: 16
          +1
          Quote: Vitaly Gusin
          This system is very expensive and does not justify the investment in its development.
          These developments were in the USSR and the USA.

          Why don't you write that this is the American DARPA. wink
          And that in both cases, during the tests, heating of the casing of the apparatus was observed HTV-2 up to 2 degrees at high altitude, loss of communication and uncontrolled rotation. wassat bully
          1. Vitaly gusin
            Vitaly gusin 27 September 2020 13: 59
            +1
            Quote: ancient
            Why don't you write that this is an American DARPA

            Because DARPA is not a development. It is the Advanced Research Projects Agency of the US Department of Defense responsible for developing new technologies for use in the interests of the military.
            Quote: ancient
            And that in both cases, during the tests, the HTV-2's skin heating up to 2 degrees at high altitude, loss of communication and uncontrolled rotation was observed

            I wrote from the original not with captain flint
            Bluff and poverty "Vanguard"
            And in the original it is SO:
            “During testing of a similar system in the United States in 2011, the Hypersonic Technology Vehicle 2 (HTV-2), the product was able to withstand planing at Mach 20 for three minutes at 3500 Fahrenheit. These figures are in line with Russian statements of tested temperatures. but the actual speeds and altitudes at which the Russian product can glide, and whether the systems really stand up to this experience, remain a mystery.Although the Russian defense sector seems to have made progress on this weapon system, to claims that it is ready for mass production or an operational deployment in the near future, should be treated with reasonable skepticism. Ironically, the most significant breakthrough is in [b] materials science, not in a seemingly intimidating strategic weapon. "
    4. Grandfather
      Grandfather 26 September 2020 18: 15
      +2
      Quote: ancient
      Excuse me .. how?

      watching cartoons, everything is clear there! wassat
      1. ancient
        ancient 26 September 2020 18: 20
        +5
        Quote: Dead Day
        watching cartoons, everything is clear there!

        good drinks
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 26 September 2020 18: 20
          +4
          Quote: ancient
          Quote: Dead Day
          watching cartoons, everything is clear there!

          good drinks

          drinks
    5. Volder
      Volder 26 September 2020 21: 17
      +2
      Quote: ancient
      I'm sorry .. how?
      If HOW is publicly told, then the weapon will no longer be secret - all interested and high-tech countries, primarily the United States, will begin to reproduce it. Do we need it? Therefore, people will continue to be at a loss, doubt, get angry and laugh at cartoons. At the same time, the fighters and politicians in the United States have already passed the stage of denial, wanting to include "Putin's new missiles" in the START-3 treaty.
  • ancient
    ancient 26 September 2020 15: 31
    +1
    Quote: Old26
    I have not heard a fairy tale from Yuri Borisov for a long time

    Well, he is a master at this .. "tell" and "promise" ... wassat
    Quote: Old26
    switched to Vanguard.

    I just can't solve for myself .. "problem" - due to what.. "planning" the unit can maneuver (and due to the hyperspeed, the deviation from the LZP reaches several thousand km)? And it still does not burn out ??? belay
    1. olegfbi
      olegfbi 26 September 2020 15: 36
      +3
      I just can't solve for myself .. the "problem" - due to what .. the "planning" block can maneuver (and due to the hyperspeed, the deviation from the LZP reaches several thousand km)? And it still does not burn out ??? belay

      Well, you should know all this and you are NOT supposed to! The highest level of secrecy for such knowledge.
      It is necessary to know only one thing - the System exists and works!
      1. ancient
        ancient 26 September 2020 15: 54
        +1
        Quote: olegfbi
        Well, you should know all this and you are NOT supposed to!

        So I don't want to know EVERYTHING ... just the granddaughter will go to school and he will probably study physics ... and ask questions ... and what should I tell him - you know, granddaughters, these are "new physical principles". bully The old ones, on which I studied, "they" .... did not master (they gave "them" a three with a minus in physics), so "they" .... took up new ones fellow
        1. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 16: 46
          -5
          say so and it will be true, technologies do not stand still, new materials
          1. ancient
            ancient 26 September 2020 17: 41
            +2
            Quote: Nastia Makarova
            say so and it will be true,

            Yes??? What would then, after my death, my granddaughter told ... here I have a "grandfather .... nice noodle maker" wassat
            1. 1976AG
              1976AG 26 September 2020 17: 48
              +2
              Quote: ancient
              Quote: Nastia Makarova
              say so and it will be true,

              Yes??? What would then, after my death, my granddaughter told ... here I have a "grandfather .... nice noodle maker" wassat

              And if he asks you to tell how the quasar works, can you explain it to him?
            2. Nastia makarova
              Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 18: 18
              -3
              read for yourself on the Internet about this block, full of videos and explanations of how what works
              1. ancient
                ancient 26 September 2020 18: 25
                +5
                Quote: Nastia Makarova
                full video

                This is in the sense of .. "Soyuz-cartoon"? wink .. Forgive me, but I left childhood long ago hi
                1. Nastia makarova
                  Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 18: 27
                  -3
                  Avangard "- a Russian missile system equipped with a guided warhead !!!!!!
                  The warheads of the Avangard complex have their own engines and can maneuver along the trajectory both in direction and in speed. The control system allows you to quickly change the flight task and the distribution of targets before launch
                  video where experts tell the principle of operation
                  1. 1976AG
                    1976AG 26 September 2020 18: 32
                    +1
                    Do not pay attention to him, he just made fun of him.
                    1. Nastia makarova
                      Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 18: 34
                      -3
                      and his nickname is suitable)))) ancient, relict
                    2. 1976AG
                      1976AG 26 September 2020 18: 36
                      0
                      Therefore, as they say, whatever the child is amused with)
              2. Volder
                Volder 26 September 2020 21: 32
                0
                Quote: ancient
                This is in the sense of .. "Soyuz-cartoon"? wink .. Forgive me, but I left childhood long ago hi
                In fact, children are taught to independently search and analyze information. For this they give marks. Take the example of children. Do not wait for someone to give you information on a silver platter and chew it with your teeth. There is indeed a video on the Internet explaining the principle of operation of the "Avangard" in general outline. And the public is not supposed to know the details. Let the surprise for the adversary remain a surprise.
      2. poquello
        poquello 26 September 2020 17: 40
        +5
        Quote: ancient
        you understand granddaughters, these are "new physical principles".

        and what confuses you in physical principles? Is it not that the Americans' super-duper rocket did not fly on hypersound?
    2. rtutaloe
      rtutaloe 27 September 2020 23: 26
      -1
      Olegfbi, the highest level of secrecy in such matters is for stupid people to believe and faith would save them. The main thing is to believe. )) And those who studied well at school, technical school, institute, re-read several cubic meters of popular technical literature, the same magazines: Young Technician, Technology of Youth, Model-Constructor, Aviation and Time, Science and Technology, plus special books on this topic - should not believe anything. They have knowledge, why do they need faith? Faith is needed by those who, instead of teaching physics at school, skipped classes and smoked at school, who, instead of homework, pawed pimply classmates under their skirts, and now, with their pathetic and dim-witted mind, enter into a dialogue of smart people. Would be ashamed, captain-obvious. ) The likes of Ancient and I have forgotten more on this topic than you ever knew. Therefore, do not shine here with stupidity and get out of the conversation, while those who are in the subject are trying to figure out where and what your guarantor is deceiving us. ) Go better read the smart magazine, the same Science and Technology. Then maybe you will understand that now you can show any "secret" technique, if it's a decent technique. Because the appearance and even the characteristics during the demonstration cannot be reproduced by a potential adversary without knowledge of materials science and production technologies. You have a smartphone in your pocket, the processor of which is made by the Chinese only on American equipment. And in Russia, robots entered the army only after a used AMD mill was purchased in 2008 for the production of processors using 120 nm technology. And you still cannot reproduce this camp. In the Arctic that you have assigned, you form a joint venture with the Americans only because they alone have drills for deep-sea Arctic drilling. And your industry does not know how to produce such. These are the secrets of your "secret" and "advanced" science. And this is not all the shameful secrets that I know about you. Therefore, knowledgeable people have the right questions for the Vanguard, rightly believing that something is wrong here.
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 26 September 2020 15: 50
    +6
    Quote: ancient
    I just can't solve for myself .. the "problem" - due to what .. the "planning" block can maneuver (and due to the hyperspeed, the deviation from the LZP reaches several thousand km)? And it still does not burn out ???

    And you will never be able to decide, because in this matter you are completely incompetent. So drop this hopeless business. In any case, it will be nothing but senseless speculation.
    1. ancient
      ancient 26 September 2020 16: 03
      +5
      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
      And you will never be able to decide, because in this matter you are completely incompetent

      So I completely agree that I am not competent, so I ask you to explain to me ... at least on the fingers ... and not tell how in the old "ancient" joke about .. "cast iron and ... luminium" wassat
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 26 September 2020 16: 21
        +7
        Quote: ancient
        So I completely agree that I am not competent, so I ask you to explain to me ... at least on the fingers ... and not tell how in the old "ancient" joke about .. "cast iron and ... luminium"

        I remember an episode from "Three plus two", when the Diplomat asked Sundukov to explain the difference between a mu meson and a pi meson.
        It is impossible to do this without knowledge of the subject and special terminology, but you have already been told "on your fingers": it flies at a speed of 27M and maneuvers.
        1. ancient
          ancient 26 September 2020 16: 38
          +3
          Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
          and "on the fingers" you have already explained: flies at a speed of 27M and maneuvers.

          wassat wassat wassat ----- "you see the gopher .. no ... but he .. is" fellow bully
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 16: 48
            -2
            such a terrible invisible gopher that the Americans are in a panic))))
            1. ancient
              ancient 26 September 2020 18: 16
              0
              Quote: Nastia Makarova
              such a scary invisible gopher that the Americans are in a panic

              Who told you about this? belay .... "Warriors" are catching up with fear in the White House, both chambers of Congress and .. "people" .. they are allocated money and they .... "use them" for their intended purpose ... that's why they have a Navy and can allow 500 ships wink
              1. Nastia makarova
                Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 18: 19
                -2
                500 ships by 2050, and then a big question, but in fact, this invisible gopher took up combat duty
              2. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 26 September 2020 18: 26
                0
                In the United States, the autonomy of the aircraft. Therefore, the money allocated for the Air Force will never be transferred to the Navy and the construction of ships.
              3. Volder
                Volder 26 September 2020 21: 41
                -1
                Quote: ancient
                so they have a navy and can afford 500 ships wink
                The US cannot even afford 355 ships, as voiced by Trump. Over the past 4 years things are still there. Until now, a new strategic submarine has not been laid to replace the old Ohio, because there is no project, although money for R&D has been allocated since 2010.
      2. RVAPatriot
        RVAPatriot 26 September 2020 16: 58
        0
        Rejection from the atmosphere does not tell you anything, there were developments in the USSR .... Maybe somewhere wrong in the wording, but that the system was, I give a tooth!
        1. ancient
          ancient 26 September 2020 18: 18
          +5
          Quote: RVAPatriot
          The repulsion from the atmosphere doesn't tell you anything

          This is generally ... do not stand the opera (repulsion is if you try to enter the atmosphere with the wrong pitch angle and not the speed calculated to decrease, then you will simply be pushed out of there. hi
          And here ... it seems like .. "maneuvers" lol
          1. Volder
            Volder 26 September 2020 21: 46
            -1
            Quote: ancient
            And here ... it seems like .. "maneuvers" lol
            Yaw maneuvers with the engine. Pitch is a constant repulsion from the lower and upper layers of the atmosphere (i.e. altitude maneuvers, which makes the route non-ballistic).
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 26 September 2020 16: 13
    0
    I believe that it can actively maneuver only on the descending part of the trajectory, and control can be gas-jet, as on the descent vehicles of the Soyuz series. As for deviations of several thousand km, this is a question for the one who voiced this.
    1. ancient
      ancient 26 September 2020 16: 48
      +3
      Quote: Aviator_
      it can only on the downward trajectory

      Why ..? belayThere are definitely no engines there (where will you place the "fuel" reserve?) And to change the velocity vector of this aircraft flying at Mach 20, huge energy costs are needed - impulses of force in a fraction of a second.
      ... Maneuvering in dense layers at a speed of 27M? belay ?
      Quote: Aviator_
      as on descent vehicles of the Soyuz series

      All descent vehicles "Apollo" and "Soyuz" Did NOT maneuver while descending, wink and all maneuvers completed before the start of aerodynamic braking during deorbiting. wassat
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 26 September 2020 17: 23
        +1
        All the Apollo and Soyuz descent vehicles did NOT maneuver during descent,

        This applies to Apollo, Gemini, East and Sunrise. Soyuz maneuvers with the help of a gas-jet system, so its trajectory is not ballistic, the overload there is 4-5 when landing, in contrast to Vostok, where 8-9 is on the ballistic one. The principle of gas-jet control is that a jet is blown out normally to the lateral surface, a jump lands on it, creating a control torque. It has been mastered since the 70s of the last century.
        1. ancient
          ancient 26 September 2020 18: 13
          +7
          Quote: Aviator_
          Soyuz - maneuvers with the help of a gas-jet system, so its trajectory is not ballistic, the overload there is 4-5 when landing, unlike the East, where 8-9 is on the ballistic

          So ... it is clear ... well ... we will liquidate your ... "no ... no knowledge" wink
          To begin with, we have the launch vehicle and the Avngard unit (aka the descent vehicle) and also the Launch vehicle and the Soyuz spacecraft with (the descent module - aka..Angard).
          On the spacecraft, engines are actually installed - two types of mooring and orientation engines (DPO): high-thrust DPO and low-thrust DPO. wink
          In addition, there is also a correcting-brake propulsion system (KTDU) and a converging-correcting engine (SKD), now they have been combined into a combined propulsion system (KDU) with the same two-component fuel (asymmetric dimethylhydrazine - fuel, nitrogen tetroxide - oxidizer).
          All of these motors are designed to stabilization, orientation on the TRAJECTORY of motion (I will not tell you about the CONNECTED and INSTRUMENT coordinate system ... this is long and ... wink ) well, and a controlled approach.
          So there are so many engines and they are so small (but there is a lot of space on the ship to accommodate fuel for them so it's not scary ... enough for all operations).
          After the separation of the descent module (i.e. Avngard), it descends along the SET and STABILIZED descent trajectory, on which it does not receive any commands, through any communication channels) The module itself does not have ANY engines for the reason ... complete absence. wassat
          And now we turn to you, that is .... the "maneuvering Vanguard" .. The "Vanguard" separated from the carrier and ... flew on its own and here you have the "most interesting" .... you have it in pitch and in the direction and with a change in orbit ... evades everything .. "what is ... breathing" and .. "looks" .... and then ..... "diving to the goal" he is also. .. well, okay .. we won’t do that ... since this is ... not funny at all hi
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 26 September 2020 18: 24
            0
            Do not confuse the attitude control engines on the descent vehicle and its gas jet control system. Once again: a shock wave lands on the jet blown across the supersonic flow, creating an area of ​​increased pressure near the jet. The nozzles for blowing out these jets are located in a circle at the rear of the Soyuz descent vehicle. Thanks to this, the Soyuz is not following a ballistic trajectory. We are talking about "Union", about "Vanguard" I only made the assumption that the same principle could be used there. I do not intend to comment on your text about Avangard.
            1. ancient
              ancient 26 September 2020 18: 59
              +2
              Quote: Aviator_
              on the descent vehicle and its gas-jet control system

              There are no gas-jet control systems on it ... there is only the 4th soft-landing engine in the bow ... EVERYTHING !!!
              It does not follow a ballistic trajectory, only the control system, which, before the descent, "exposed" it .. as it should
              And on the descent trajectory it is "stabilized by the shape of the descent module and the position of the center of mass, which provide a controlled descent with aerodynamic quality (approximately 0,25).
    2. Leon68
      Leon68 26 September 2020 19: 13
      +1
      And you, when you throw a pebble into the water, it flies at a comparable distance with a simple throw (along a parabolic trajectory) and when you launch a "frog" (analogous to the flight of a gliding block). And pushing the block out by the atmosphere - isn't it a maneuver?
    3. ancient
      ancient 27 September 2020 13: 09
      +2
      Quote: Aviator_
      I believe that he can actively maneuver only on the descending part of the trajectory,

      Yeah .... slightly change the guidance trajectory ... maybe, but ... let's turn to the original source wink
      "... this system differs from the existing types of combat equipment the ability to fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at an intercontinental range at a hypersonic speed exceeding the Mach number by more than 20 times " (Vladimir Putin).

      Op-pa-a-anki, exceeds the Mach number by 20 times and flight in dense layers of the atmosphere. laughing
      Wow, yes-ah, belay when flying in dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed of Mach 20, the deceleration temperature on the aircraft surface, according to the gas dynamics formulas, will be equal to 18K, that is, the planning block will burn out in a split second.
      Of course, some part of the heat will be radiated into space, but all the same, the temperature on the surface will be enormous.
      And no amount of ablative protection against this temperature will help. wassat
      On the "Buran" spacecraft, a coating of amorphous quartz fiber (99,7% purity) with a binder in the form of colloidal silicon dioxide was used.
      The coating was tiled, with a thickness of 5 to 64 mm, but ... at the same time, the temperature on the aircraft surface was not so huge, no more than 1K.
      So there is nothing to talk about - at such a speed, the "Vanguard" will burn "in the dense layers of the atmosphere" unambiguously. soldier
  • telobezumnoe
    telobezumnoe 26 September 2020 17: 15
    +1
    did you throw a pebble over the water so that it jumped several times? and this is approximately how the Sarmat bounces off the atmosphere, and it maneuvers by changing the planes, thus regulating the flow of atmospheric, albeit highly discharged gases, my trajectory
    1. ancient
      ancient 26 September 2020 18: 59
      +1
      Quote: telobezumnoe
      and he maneuvers by changing planes,

      What is it like...? belay belay belay
      1. telobezumnoe
        telobezumnoe 26 September 2020 23: 10
        -1
        you do not know what, for example, the ailerons of an airplane? then with such knowledge in aerodynamics that it is surprising that you do not understand how it works .. moreover, now an aircraft is being tested, where there are no mechanical parts of the control, and the rinsing of the wings is changed by the pressure of probably gases in order to give the desired shape and control the lift on the desired section of the wing ...
        1. ancient
          ancient 27 September 2020 11: 14
          0
          Quote: telobezumnoe
          you do not know what, for example, the ailerons of an airplane?

          Hello .. "garage" ... here is discussed the "maneuvering" of the Vanguard in the dense layers of the atmosphere, at speeds of M = 27 wink
          Where are you from .. "crawled out" .. with their ... ailerons wassat ? .. From the Stone Age? Zlevons, flaperons and spoilers and a differential stabilizer are in fashion now. lol
          1. telobezumnoe
            telobezumnoe 27 September 2020 16: 03
            -2
            Well, so many clever words were googled at once, but they did not find about the avant-garde, hence the misunderstanding of what the variable geometry of the wing means in this case of the warhead body, and how an aircraft can be controlled in the atmosphere. no one claims that at an altitude of 5 km it flies for half an hour and at the same time actively maneuvers, but at 40 km and higher it is quite, it all depends on the heat resistance of the materials of the geometry change drives, and the time spent in these dense layers, while entering ( diving) into the atmosphere (it seems to me that he does this more than once), he is probably controlled by bouncing, changing direction by a small angle, and the magnitude of a new rebound or entry into the atmosphere to the final section, which he overcomes in seconds, and actively maneuver in principle he has no time.
            1. ancient
              ancient 27 September 2020 17: 11
              -1
              Quote: telobezumnoe
              means the variable geometry of the wing in this case of the warhead body, and how you can control

              This is in what .. "this case"? ..
              belay belay
              Quote: telobezumnoe
              , but at 40 km and more - quite, it all depends on the heat resistance of the materials of the drives for changing the geometry, and the time spent in these dense layers, while entering (diving) into the atmosphere (it seems to me that he does this more than once)

              .At H = 40 km and a speed of M> 20 ... ????? Are you out of your mind at all ???? How old are you that such childish thoughts visit your head !? wassat
              Everything .. "call me" .. I have enough granddaughter .. "educate" .. and here is overage fool ... "got caught" ... thank you hi
              1. telobezumnoe
                telobezumnoe 28 September 2020 09: 02
                -1
                arguments in essence will be? or personalization are the only arguments in the dispute? Well, I don’t know what you’ll teach your grandson with this approach. you have something with memory. in this one, it seems like about the avant-garde .. but here you are just flooding
    2. rtutaloe
      rtutaloe 27 September 2020 23: 42
      +1
      I doubt very much that the planes will somehow be effective in a rarefied atmosphere.
      1. telobezumnoe
        telobezumnoe 28 September 2020 09: 17
        -1
        at such a speed, even a rarefied atmosphere has a significant effect, as does a braking effect, hence the influence of the shape of the object, entry angles .. from here and talking about planes, that's how they have already implemented xs
  • malyvalv
    malyvalv 27 September 2020 03: 33
    -1
    It has long been known at the expense of what the Vanguard maneuvers. Due to the reflection from the atmosphere. A spaceship (and this applies to the Vanguard 100%) to land must enter the atmosphere at a certain angle so as not to be reflected. But the Vanguard in the form of a glider just comes in to be reflected. And so several times until it reaches the target and changes the angle of entry. He does not really need fuel for this. It makes almost the entire path in space at the border with the atmosphere, roughly like a flat stone launched at a small angle to the surface of the water ..
    1. ancient
      ancient 27 September 2020 11: 17
      0
      Quote: malyvalv
      Due to the reflection from the atmosphere.

      Is this when maneuvering on a course? lol
      Once again I repeat "the words" VGK -... "maneuvering in dense layers of the atmosphere" and mind you ... I did not say that wink
      1. malyvalv
        malyvalv 28 September 2020 03: 43
        -1
        Maneuvering in dense layers is already at the terminal part of the trajectory. The main path is, of course, in space. Due to the reflection from the atmosphere, maneuvering can be both in height and along the course. Everything will depend on the angle at which the device will enter the atmosphere. If, by analogy with a stone launched over water, then imagine that the stone changes the inclination of the plane from one hit to the water to another. Then the trajectory will take the form of a zigzag.
  • iouris
    iouris 26 September 2020 14: 44
    -25 qualifying.
    And you can also devalue the US missile defense system by detonating ultra-high-power thermonuclear charges on your territory.
    1. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 26 September 2020 15: 29
      0
      And you can also devalue the US missile defense system by detonating ultra-high-power thermonuclear charges on your territory.


      This has already been done in the 60s, it seems, both the Americans and we. In space.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 26 September 2020 18: 15
        0
        Quote: Interlocutor
        This has already been done in the 60s, it seems, both the Americans and we. In space.

        The most powerful space nuclear explosion - Starfish Prime during Operation Dominic - 1,44 Mt. Ours in general did not reach the megaton. Imagine what a circus will be if you pull at least 25 Mt.
  • fn34440
    fn34440 26 September 2020 14: 51
    +1
    Why would the Pentagon bring the number of its missile-carrying ships to 500?
    Do they expect anticipation, surprise and global target destruction, in accordance with their developed concept of "instantaneous global strike"?
    To develop this capability, in October 2002, STRATCOM, occupied with US strategic nuclear weapons plans and operations, was merged with US Space Command (SpaceCom) in charge of military space operations. In late 2002 and early 2003, the Pentagon rebuilt the new STRATCOM to accommodate new missions, including planning and executing BSU operations.
    The US Navy is deploying its forces in oceans and seas around the world and maintaining combat capabilities close to potential conflict areas.
    Therefore, overflights of our territory in the Crimea, the Baltic, the Far East, etc., have become so frequent.
    1. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 26 September 2020 15: 33
      0
      Do they expect anticipation, surprise and global target destruction, in accordance with their developed concept of "instantaneous global strike"?


      Are you seriously? They, in order to strike Syria two years ago, concentrated their forces for a week. India and China have been dancing on the border for two months. Turks and Greeks show each other their tails.
      What a global blow there is. This is not a series of books "Metro".
      Get back to reality.
      1. fn34440
        fn34440 26 September 2020 19: 32
        -1
        "Are you seriously ?" Are you not puff-puff ???
        Of course it's not serious, I was asked to write here the text by Evgeny Petrosyan, a short summary of his last performance at Yumorin in Sochi.
  • bars1
    bars1 26 September 2020 15: 08
    +3
    Quote: Old26
    I have not heard a fairy tale from Yuri Borisov for a long time. He was telling tales about "Sarmat", now he switched to "Vanguard" ...

    If anything, the fabulous "Vanguard" in 2019 has already been shown to the American military delegation.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 26 September 2020 17: 56
      +3
      They showed the container in which the "Vanguard" allegedly was. The Vanguard itself was not shown.
      1. Interlocutor
        Interlocutor 26 September 2020 19: 39
        -2
        They showed the container in which the "Vanguard" allegedly was. The Vanguard itself was not shown.

        Stop playing with words.
        They invite scouts from other countries to show I am getting on. Well, you're right.
        1. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 26 September 2020 20: 43
          +1
          "They invite scouts from other countries to show I am getting on." Namely so. Photos from the presentation are publicly available. Google it and see.
          1. Interlocutor
            Interlocutor 27 September 2020 10: 42
            0
            They showed the container in which the "Vanguard" allegedly was. Avangard itself was not shown

            Actually, the appearance of the fairing - may carry secret data. And it is unambiguous.
            1. rtutaloe
              rtutaloe 27 September 2020 23: 48
              +1
              Quote: Interlocutor

              Actually, the appearance of the fairing - may carry secret data. And it is unambiguous.

              Fairing appearance? Ha ha ha. This is roughly how the appearance of the Pentium processor tells about its characteristics. )))
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 15: 21
    -3
    Quote: bars1
    Quote: Old26
    I have not heard a fairy tale from Yuri Borisov for a long time. He was telling tales about "Sarmat", now he switched to "Vanguard" ...

    If anything, the fabulous "Vanguard" in 2019 has already been shown to the American military delegation.

    The Rubezh complex was also shown to the Americans, in 2016. So what? "Fabulous" is not that it does not exist, but that all these complexes are attributed to "fabulous" possibilities.
    We put a minimum of 2 launchers on the DB, and in the reports it goes that the DB is regiment... And all the "zeroing" of the American missile defense system by "Vanguard" is still nothing more than a sphere-horse in a vacuum. For 4 test launches have we already carried out the entire set of tests? And probably on purpose for the Americans to record all this? See what the Americans have on Shemiya Island and what they are watching. Do you seriously think that having obtained permission from the commander-in-chief for a couple more tests, we were able to carry out their entire complex and, moreover, so that the Americans removed all parameters? As for "zeroing" the missile defense system, there is no need to have controlled or gliding BBs for this. Any missile defense system of any country is reset to zero by a mass launch of ICBMs with "conventional", unguided warheads. But 40 missile launchers in Alaska with a range of 5000 km and an altitude reach of 2500 are enough to "neutralize", if necessary, "the same" Vanguard "even before it enters the atmosphere, where it will begin to maneuver ...
    1. codetalker
      codetalker 26 September 2020 16: 46
      +2
      How do you know the number of test launches and the number of complexes put on alert? There was an official announcement about the regiment.
    2. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 16: 51
      -3
      only 40 ???? few
    3. poquello
      poquello 26 September 2020 17: 48
      +5
      Quote: Old26
      But 40 missile launchers in Alaska with a range of 5000 km and an altitude reach of 2500 are enough to "neutralize", if necessary, "the same" Vanguard "even before it enters the atmosphere

      )))))))))))))))))))))))))) and from this place in more detail
    4. Volder
      Volder 26 September 2020 22: 07
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Any missile defense system of any country is reset to zero by a mass launch of ICBMs with "conventional", unguided warheads.
      If the blocks and missiles that launch them do not maneuver, flying strictly along a ballistic trajectory, then they can be shot down by anti-missiles. The US missile defense system will cope with missiles from Iran and North Korea, but Russia will no longer be able to cope with missiles. all Russian ICBMs fly along a quasi-ballistic trajectory. As for the Russian missile defense system, our Moscow Nudol / Amur system, as well as the S-500 air defense system, can shoot down quasi-ballistic targets. The plus is that US ICBMs are not quasi-ballistic.
      But 40 missile launchers in Alaska with a range of 5000 km and an altitude reach of 2500 are enough to "neutralize" the same "Vanguard" if necessary
      US interceptor missiles in Alaska are not capable of shooting down even conventional RF ICBMs, let alone Avangard. Why - explained above.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 September 2020 15: 28
    +7
    There is, at the moment, at least some kind of air defense missile defense that can repel a massive attack of offensive weapons of a serious enemy !!!
    For now, you can stop at this.
  • R-140
    R-140 26 September 2020 15: 41
    +7
    If only if. You are all storytellers. I look all so smart all the secrets knowing. One says that he damn knows for sure that the two complexes were set. Another is ranting about a mass strike. I wouldn’t be happy for the country's achievements. So no, we gloat over. We never finish eating. Why give us sausages like Vanguard. At work, you will hear enough of them and here I watch the same thing.
  • Har yasta
    Har yasta 26 September 2020 15: 42
    -13 qualifying.
    ... in the meantime, Russia has a significant advantage over the United States ... - ahahahah, in what? only in useless chatter
    1. Thunderbringer
      Thunderbringer 26 September 2020 18: 18
      +3
      A youngster from Ukraine or what?
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 16: 09
    -1
    Quote: R-140
    One says that he damn knows for sure that two complexes were set

    There is a well-known expression: "He who has ears, let him hear, who has eyes, let him see." About hears - oh TWO launchers were announced by a certain Shoigu Sergei Kozhugetovich ... Have you heard of this? So this is far from a secret and you just need to be able to hear, and not just perceive urya-patriotic statements.
    As for "see". there is such a resource called STATE PROCUREMENT. Here on it one could (if desired) see the state order for the modernization of TWO launchers by 2020 at the "Object 370". Do you also think that top-secret documents are published on the state resource ???

    And the sausage - buy it yourself if you are malnourished. But the usual laws of physics and open data should not be turned into something super-secret ...
    1. Volder
      Volder 26 September 2020 22: 14
      0
      Quote: Old26
      But the usual laws of physics and open data should not be turned into something super-secret ...
      This is not about the laws of physics, but about using them in unusual ways. These methods are still secret, and they are doing the right thing!
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 26 September 2020 16: 12
    -4
    I will say this wassat
    As soon as Russia and the United States exchange "vigorous loaves", there will be only one country in the world, which this world will put in a "siu" position - China laughing So ... I strongly doubt that until either Russia or the United States pulls China over to their side, the Third World War will take place ... good
    1. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 26 September 2020 16: 53
      -1
      China will get it right away too
  • Tagan
    Tagan 26 September 2020 16: 50
    -1
    Quote: Har Jasta
    ... in the meantime, Russia has a significant advantage over the United States ... - ahahahah, in what? only in useless chatter

    Not able to remember the content of one single sentence? Maybe you, like in the Teletubbies, needed to repeat it several times?)))
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 26 September 2020 18: 26
    +7
    After reading about Avangard in open sources, several simple questions arose:
    1. Well, yes, maybe Vanguard is effective against THAAD. mb even against GBI. but if the Yankees take up the creation of a real missile defense system, then it will be able to intercept ICBMs before the deployment of warheads, which somehow levels the value of the "Vanguard".
    2. One "Vanguard" is installed instead of six conventional warheads. You might think that intercepting six non-maneuvering warheads is easier than one maneuvering one? I doubt it.
    3. The United States is not creating any continental missile defense system capable of withstanding a massive missile strike. Even their economies are unable to create a missile defense system that could protect against a massive missile attack. Our existing ICBMs and SLBMs will easily break the existing American missile defense system. R&D on hypersonic units is always beneficial. But to spend fabulous money at once on a bunch of duplicate programs ("Vanguard", "Petrel", "Poseidon"), in conditions when both in the army and in civilian life there are a lot of unresolved needs - is there any sense?
    4. Well, about the laws of physics, (the impossibility of maneuvering on hypersound in dense layers of the atmosphere, increased visibility at least in the IR range, and most likely in the radar range, etc.), have already been written many times.
    1. rtutaloe
      rtutaloe 28 September 2020 00: 07
      0
      Even this site has a number of articles on a possible nuclear war. So, besides all these START treaties, the United States has 1500 strategic nuclear warheads, while Russia has 1200. Moreover, Russia would like to cut this number, because it is expensive to maintain, while the United States, on the contrary. Also, do not forget that France and Britain also have warheads, and Kiiai did not sign any agreements at all and his number is still estimated at 600. Further, it is assumed that the Americans will strike first, and mainly at nuclear mines, etc. both nuclear and non-nuclear weapons, which will make it possible to destroy 2/3 or even 3/4 of the warheads still on Russian territory. Well, the American missile defense will already be able to deal with the remnants. In addition, personally, I am sure that they will sacrifice a couple of three unnecessary cities like Detroit in order to create the effect of a "heavenly hundred" in the media for their population, accusing Russia of the first blow, i.e. unleashing a war. Journalists will run there en masse, and after that every American will be ready to kill you for something without listening to counterarguments. So even some defeat of American territory will be beneficial to the American elite, which in the conditions of the coming robotization is concerned about the problem of extra mouths on the planet. And the war will be unleashed in order to reduce the population of the planet. So the fact that you have nuclear weapons is also into their hands. In this total war, there are many who will free the planet for the "golden billion".
  • Dikson
    Dikson 26 September 2020 18: 38
    0
    And about the rocket, the S-400, which changed her mind to fly, did he tell you anything? If we have such missiles of the latest air defense systems, then who can guarantee that the Strategic Missile Forces YARS, on occasion, will not want to return home immediately after the launch?
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 19: 34
    +1
    A simple explanation of the laws of physics and thermodynamics ... otherwise it turns out we all, well, in particular, I did not study at that school and not so ... "as it should"? wassat
    "... this system differs from the existing types of combat equipment by its ability to fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at an intercontinental range at a hypersonic speed exceeding the Mach number by more than 20 times" (VV Putin).
    Excuse me .. how?

    It's simple. In dense layers of the atmosphere, the air resistance is proportional to the square of the speed. This is not counting viscous friction and wave drag. In the upper layers, starting from the Pocket Line, the form resistance is proportional to the first degree of speed. The wing does not create lift, but nothing prevents the use of aerodynamic surfaces for maneuver? So we get the roll and pitch maneuvers ... At the school level, in order to explain to my grandchildren, I can advise Landau and Livshitz's ninth course of theoretical physics. There is a problem about calculating the trajectory of a satellite in the upper atmosphere.
    1. ancient
      ancient 26 September 2020 20: 21
      +3
      Quote: nobody75
      The wing does not create lift, but nothing prevents the use of aerodynamic surfaces for maneuver?

      And what ... your Avangard has already grown aerodynamic surfaces? lol wassat
      Quote: nobody75
      There is a problem about calculating the trajectory of a satellite in the upper atmosphere.

      Do not "confuse God's gift ... with scrambled eggs" lol .... I'm not talking about a satellite in a constant orbit, but about ... a "gliding" highly maneuverable block, and even flying at a hypersonic speed of M = 27.
      Forgive me for the expression .. but .. "you are getting ready" at such speeds to do roll maneuvers and how are you going to fly then .. at such speeds ...... you do not want to go into cosmic dust .. "fry" wassat
      PS No need to advise me what to do, and I will not advise you .. "what" you need to go wink
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 26 September 2020 20: 23
        -1
        Excuse me, does the satellite have a constant orbit? Due to aerodynamic friction, he can not get off it?
      2. nobody75
        nobody75 26 September 2020 20: 25
        -2
        I don’t want to roast it into cosmic dust ... And it won’t work at such a height with a ridiculous density
      3. nobody75
        nobody75 26 September 2020 20: 28
        -2
        And what ... your Avangard has already grown aerodynamic surfaces?
        And where without them ... look at any photo of a hypersonic aircraft ...
    2. ancient
      ancient 27 September 2020 13: 24
      -1
      Quote: nobody75
      but nothing prevents you from using aerodynamic surfaces for maneuver?

      How ... if you do not create lift? wassat
      Here the key word is gliding - that is, the warhead is a glider that does not have an engine on board: it can glide smoothly due to its aerodynamic shape, like a bird on "spread wings", going down, but it can sometimes even soar up, using for this, the energy of the ascending air currents.
      Planning in aerodynamics is the descent of a glider along an inclined axis.
      How far can a glider fly? wink
      The higher the altitude from which the aircraft is planning, the further the flight,but ... the gliding winged unit cannot maneuver (especially for "several thousand kilometers"): neither pitch, nor roll, nor yaw. wassat
      But what about the hang glider, you will probably say? After all, he can maneuver? laughing
      And there, I will answer you, flight control and maneuvers are carried out by displacement of the center of mass due to the movement of the pilot relative to the suspension point. wink
      In the case of Avangard, we have to admit that the profound maneuvers of the planning bloc are anti-scientific "nonsense." hi
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 27 September 2020 13: 42
        0
        This is yours, dear, anti-scientific nonsense ... It seems that they wrote about missiles, but you don't know elementary things ... "In accordance with the definition of the International Aviation Federation (FAI), the Karman line is located at an altitude of 100 kilometers above sea level.
        The height was named after the American scientist Theodore von Karman. He was the first to determine that at about this altitude the atmosphere becomes so rarefied that aerodynamic aviation becomes impossible, since the speed of the aircraft required to create sufficient lift becomes greater than the first space speed, and therefore, to reach higher altitudes, it is necessary to use the means of astronautics. "This is what I meant by the lack of lift ... Who told you that you cannot plan? And as an example I will give you not a foreign hang glider, but our domestic" Efremovskaya Bird "... From which the avant-garde aerodynamic surfaces have grown ... I will have time to find calculations on it ... digitize and post ...
        1. ancient
          ancient 27 September 2020 17: 30
          0
          Quote: nobody75
          That's what I mean by lack of lift.

          You know .. I meant the same thing ... and all of you ... with the "group of comrades on the site" .. all trying to .. "maneuver" wassat ... and even at speeds M> 20 .... belay
          Quote: nobody75
          . Who told you that you cannot plan?

          Where did I say that? wassat ... I, on the contrary, proved to you that to plan, or rather gently descend ... it can ... but not at speeds M> 20 wassat ... while still allegedly .. "maneuvering" ... yes it will burn like a match at such speeds wassat
          Quote: nobody75
          And as an example for you, I will cite not a foreign hang glider, but our domestic "Efremovskaya Ptichka".

          Something not u .. "I heard about such a" beast " recourse
          Here are about cruise missiles for firing at ground targets, from submarines (P-5, S-5, "Meteorite" and others), and also heard about the anti-ship missile systems P-6, P-35, "Progress", "Amethyst", "Malachite", "Basalt", "Volcano", "Granite" and "Onyx".
          Many even "saw" in .. "live" ...... but about ... "psisu" ... I have not even heard request

          And do not consider it "rudeness" .. but. From what place do you suddenly have some surfaces .. "grown" belay
          On the respected Herbert Alexandrovich Efremov, designer of rocket and rocket-space technology ........ this does not look like ... unless during the student days hi
          1. nobody75
            nobody75 27 September 2020 22: 15
            -1
            Forgive me, about the rudeness, I like your orientation is not interesting .... Launch a paper airplane ... Did he manage to plan gently?
      2. nobody75
        nobody75 27 September 2020 14: 54
        0
        But what about the hang glider, you will probably say? After all, he can maneuver? laughing
        And there, I will answer you, flight control and maneuvers are carried out by displacement of the center of mass due to the movement of the pilot relative to the suspension point.

        I was especially touched by the hang glider ... Excuse me, did you make paper airplanes as a child? Remember your childhood ... Start ... and you will see that la will perform inimitable roll and pitch maneuvers due to the moment of forces formed by the shoulder between the center of gravity and the aerodynamic center, the deformation of the body under the action of aerodynamic loads and ... Oh, a miracle !!! asymmetry of aerodynamic planes ... Excuse me, does the position of the center of gravity change in a paper airplane in flight? Did you ever fly on a glider? How is a conventional glider controlled? The center of mass is changing ??? Or as a child, cut out a glider from plywood and glue it with papyrus paper? You launch it and ... it does not fly in a straight line.
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 19: 58
    -1
    Simple explanation of the laws of physics and thermodynamics

    Probably I went to the wrong school ... I have never heard that aerodynamic heating using only thermodynamics was considered ... And even with the help of simple laws ... Are there such laws in modern thermodynamics? I fought here for half an hour and still could not insert the Jacobian into the comment ...
  • _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 26 September 2020 20: 05
    0
    in the meantime, Russia has a significant advantage over the United States
    still have a significant advantage over the United States in the standard of living of ordinary citizens
    1. poquello
      poquello 26 September 2020 20: 26
      -1
      Quote: _Ugene_
      in the meantime, Russia has a significant advantage over the United States
      still have a significant advantage over the United States in the standard of living of ordinary citizens


      This is America ... You look - there are people sleeping on the streets, what can we talk about?

      More details at the “Championship”:
      https://www.championat.com/boxing/news-4129519-povetkin-v-ssha-ljudi-na-ulicah-spjat-o-chjom-tut-mozhno-govorit.html
    2. Volder
      Volder 26 September 2020 22: 25
      -1
      Quote: _Ugene_
      still have a significant advantage over the United States in the standard of living of ordinary citizens
      This will never happen, because in America they live beyond their means, accumulating debts and inflating bubbles. The Russians, on the other hand, live within their means, the state has much less debts and bubbles. By the way, the standard of living of the Saudis is higher than that of the Americans, but where is the United States and where is Saudi Arabia? It is incomparable. The power of the state is not measured by the standard of living.
      1. _Ugene_
        _Ugene_ 26 September 2020 22: 32
        +2
        since living in America beyond their means, accumulating debts and blowing bubbles
        so they have been accumulating and inflating them for 50 years and maybe another 100 years, and what about ordinary citizens?
        The power of the state is not measured by the standard of living.
        And what does an ordinary worker care about some kind of state power if he cannot provide a decent life for his family? The power of the state does not make sense if its citizens live in poverty, poverty humiliates a person, the example of the USSR showed well what this leads to, sold a powerful state for jeans and chewing gum
        1. poquello
          poquello 27 September 2020 00: 41
          0
          Quote: _Ugene_
          And what does an ordinary worker care about some kind of state power if he cannot provide a decent life for his family?

          here it cannot, but there it can - yes, sir, you are an optimist
          1. _Ugene_
            _Ugene_ 27 September 2020 10: 12
            +1
            it's not about optimism, you can't argue with the numbers, or do you really think that in Russia and the United States a comparable standard of living of the average citizen? I will not be surprised, our propaganda is now working better than in the USSR
            1. poquello
              poquello 27 September 2020 13: 04
              0
              Quote: _Ugene_
              it's not about optimism, you can't argue with the numbers, or do you really think that in Russia and the United States a comparable standard of living of the average citizen? I will not be surprised, our propaganda is now working better than in the USSR

              yes, I fig knows him as an average, I see what I write, for me a story about 200 euros is propaganda, because for this money Uzbeks do not work for us either
              1. _Ugene_
                _Ugene_ 27 September 2020 18: 36
                0
                the average salary in the United States is $ 3600-3800, after taxes is about $ 3000, at the current exchange rate it is about 235 thousand. rubles, and this is not a high salary, this level is considered quite low, for example, doctors for 7-8 thousand. get, i.e. more half-bulges on our
                1. poquello
                  poquello 27 September 2020 18: 49
                  0
                  Quote: _Ugene_
                  the average salary in the United States is $ 3600-3800, after taxes is about $ 3000, at the current exchange rate it is about 235 thousand. rubles, and this is not a high salary, this level is considered quite low, for example, doctors for 7-8 thousand. get, i.e. more half-bulges on our

                  Yeah, and the living wage is 1100 dl., total 3 mroth, total 36tyr)
                  1. _Ugene_
                    _Ugene_ 27 September 2020 20: 39
                    +1
                    Well, actually, which I immediately wrote about, we are booming here and they are there with their decaying capitalism in poverty in comparison with us
                    1. poquello
                      poquello 27 September 2020 21: 31
                      0
                      Quote: _Ugene_
                      Well, actually, which I immediately wrote about, we are booming here and they are there with their decaying capitalism in poverty in comparison with us

                      sarcasm is useless here, like fairy tales about a land with jelly shores, with an extra hundred square meters of people would have more than a million free money a year, that every American would have already flown by helicopter)))))))))))))) )))))
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 20: 29
    +2
    Quote: Nastia Makarova
    The warheads of the Avangard complex have their own engines and can maneuver along the trajectory both in direction and in speed. The control system allows you to quickly change the flight task and the distribution of targets before launch

    They have engines, they have. The whole question is what kind of engines (rocket or gas-jet) their power and working fluid supply are. And then you can talk about what they can do and what not. The distribution of targets before the start is all in the control system of the carrier, and not at all in the combat unit. It is on the basis of several PPs that goals are selected

    Quote: RVAPatriot
    Rejection from the atmosphere does not tell you anything, there were developments in the USSR .... Maybe somewhere wrong in the wording, but that the system was, I give a tooth!

    The so-called recocheting trajectory or Zenger's scheme has been known since the middle of the 40s of the last century. It was the German designer Senger who theoretically substantiated the possibility of such a trajectory and, of course, the change in range in this case
    But first, the developments were purely theoretical (did not exist in metal as far as I remember NO ONE product that would use this trajectory. Secondly, the so-called "antipode Zenger bomber" - this is a fairly voluminous structure both in weight and in size with a fairly decent fuel supply and powerful rocket engines


    Quote: codetalker
    How do you know the number of test launches and the number of complexes put on alert? There was an official announcement about the regiment.

    Well, finding information on the number of test launches over the years is not difficult. There would be a desire. The Minister of Defense announced the number of complexes delivered to the DB. He also announced plans for the further deployment of this complex based on the 71st missile. On average - 2 launchers in two years. The fact that the regiment is in service is on the conscience of the journalists. The regiment will be fully operational after all 6 launchers are deployed ...

    Quote: Nastia Makarova
    only 40 ???? few

    Few? It depends on why. It's like that same riddle: THREE HAIR IS LOT OR LITTLE? And the answer is: ON THE HEAD - SMALL, IN SOUP - MUCH
    • In order to completely neutralize the DPRK intercontinental missile strike - enough (with a margin)
    • In order to completely neutralize the strike of hypothetical intercontinental missiles of Iran - enough (with a margin)
    • It is not enough to completely neutralize the strike by the intercontinental missiles of the PRC. Even if we consider that they will all be monoblock without PCB
    • It is not enough to completely neutralize the strike by Russia's intercontinental missiles (this was not a task even during the existence of the ABM Treaty). Likewise, the Soviet (Russian) missile defense system is not capable of fending off a US strategic missile strike. You don't even need Vanguard for that. Even the Americans are unable to intercept the NUBBs. In order to intercept all Russian BB, the Americans must be left "without pants" and deploy several thousand anti-missiles

    Quote: Narak-zempo
    The most powerful space nuclear explosion - Starfish Prime during Operation Dominic - 1,44 Mt. Ours in general did not reach the megaton. Imagine what a circus will be if you pull at least 25 Mt.

    The maximum that we blew up in the upper atmosphere (or in space) EMNIP is 400 kt. But the funny thing is that the early warning radar even of that time was able to recover in about 10-12 minutes. Now it is problematic to detonate a 25 mt charge in space due to several conditions. First, there are no such charges now, they were dismantled in the early 1s. Secondly, for the "drop" into space at a decent height, you will need carriers of the "Proton" type, no less. And we only have them (launchers) of this carrier ONE.

    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    After reading about Avangard in open sources, several simple questions arose:
    1. Well, yes, maybe Vanguard is effective against THAAD. mb even against GBI. but if the Yankees take up the creation of a real missile defense system, then it will be able to intercept ICBMs before the deployment of warheads, which somehow levels the value of the "Vanguard".

    Against THAAD, Avangard is of course effective due to the fact that THAAD is not designed to intercept intercontinental missiles. As for the GBI, their range and reach in height allows you to hit the target long before it begins to maneuver in the atmosphere. Roughly speaking, the range and reach allows you to hit targets approximately over the center of Russia. Although after the separation of the blocks. But even with the fact that "Vanguard" is a candy bar - that's enough

    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    After reading about Avangard in open sources, several simple questions arose:
    2. One "Vanguard" is installed instead of six conventional warheads. You might think that intercepting six non-maneuvering warheads is easier than one maneuvering one? I doubt it.

    And you are right to do that in doubt. In addition to 6 warheads, the MIRVed missile also has a complex of means of overcoming missile defense, including light and heavy (quasi-heavy) false blocks. Avangard does not have such a PCB from the word at all, because it is not possible to create false targets with PKB characteristics

    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    After reading about Avangard in open sources, several simple questions arose:
    3. The United States is not creating any continental missile defense system capable of withstanding a massive missile strike. Even their economies are unable to create a missile defense system that could protect against a massive missile attack. Our existing ICBMs and SLBMs will easily break the existing American missile defense system. R&D on hypersonic units is always beneficial. But to spend fabulous money at once on a bunch of duplicate programs ("Vanguard", "Petrel", "Poseidon"), in conditions when both in the army and in civilian life there are a lot of unresolved needs - is there any sense?

    You are right here too. In order to create an "impenetrable" missile defense system, one must remain "without pants" even if there is a "machine". It was precisely the impossibility of creating an "impenetrable missile defense" in due time that led to the conclusion of an ABM treaty limiting the number of interceptor missiles. For it could last forever. One side increases the number of BB - the second interceptor missiles. The first, as a retaliatory move, increases the number of attack missiles and BB - the second again the number of interceptors. Moreover, an increase in attack missiles is a less costly measure than missile defense due to the specifics of the ABM system itself.
    I don't see any sense, except for the politico-ideological, in the deployment of such systems as Poseidon and Petrel. What about Vanguard? If a lighter PKB is brought to a series, it may and will make sense ...

    Quote: Interlocutor
    He was telling tales about "Sarmat", now he switched to "Vanguard" ...

    and what is in your concept of "not a fairy tale"?

    Characteristics close to real, and not "beyond-fabulous"

    Quote: Joker62
    This means that the Vanguard block will have the first space velocity.

    NONE of the warheads has a space velocity, because then it can simply stay in orbit. At ranges of 10-12 thousand kilometers, the maximum speed at the end of the OUT will be about 7,3-7,5 km / s
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ 26 September 2020 21: 07
      0
      Likewise, the Soviet (Russian) missile defense system
      Is there a Russian missile defense system? or are you talking about what is over Moscow?
    2. poquello
      poquello 26 September 2020 21: 56
      -1
      Quote: Old26
      NOT ONE warhead has space velocity,

      when is it up or when is it down? )
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 20: 33
    0
    I'm not talking about a satellite in a constant orbit, but about ... a "gliding" highly maneuverable block, and even flying at a hypersonic speed of M = 27

    What are you? And do not enlighten, what is the fundamental difference between a satellite in the upper layers of the atmosphere and a glider by this very ... which is the vanguard ... ??? Does a constant orbit exist in the atmosphere? Do you know other mathematical symbols besides emoticons?
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 20: 38
    -1
    Forgive me for the expression .. but .. you are "drinking" at such speeds to do roll maneuvers

    Forgive me, if you climb 500 km, then you do not "write" there is practically no atmosphere ... Although you can see a specialist in this matter ...
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 20: 52
    0
    Sense, except for the political and ideological in the deployment of such systems as "Poseidon" and "Petrel" - I also do not see

    And I see ... Testing the reactor ...
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 21: 06
    +1
    Quote: nobody75
    Sense, except for the political and ideological in the deployment of such systems as "Poseidon" and "Petrel" - I also do not see

    And I see ... Testing the reactor ...

    And what will this give to what we now have? Zero American Strategic Forces? Or what? Tested - well, but explain how and why to deploy the "Petrel" if it is a weapon that can be used only when the khan himself. How to test a flying Chernobyl over your own territory? How to check its ability to bypass something there?
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 26 September 2020 21: 14
      -1
      This will make it possible to create a nuclear engine for interplanetary flights ... The engine that Korolev, Kurchatov and Keldysh dreamed of ... The problem was in a compact high-temperature reactor and ... a cooling system ... According to the simple laws of physics and thermodynamics, heat transfer in space impossible ... To cool the reactor, a droplet radiator is needed ... such a large radiator that throws droplets into space ... They are cooled due to radiation ... and he collects them back ...
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 05: 59
        0
        "This will enable the creation of a nuclear engine for interplanetary travel." Hmm. What does the Burevestnik jet engine have to do with space flights? The answer is simple - none. Creating a working nuclear engine for a cruise missile is an interesting engineering task, but nothing more. In the global confrontation with the United States, this is an extra waste of money, which is also dangerous for us.
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 27 September 2020 09: 03
          0
          Hmm. What does the Burevestnik jet engine have to do with space flights?
          Direct is the first flying reactor. Before you launch something into space, you need to teach this miracle to fly in the atmosphere. If we are unable to resist amers in space at any "confrontation" we can put an end to it ... "A grievous grief awaits the country that will be unable to repel an air strike." After "Starlink" this also concerns space
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 21: 24
    0
    How to test a flying Chernobyl over your own territory?

    Excuse me, what does Chernobyl have to do with it? These are two different reactors ....
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 06: 09
      +1
      "Excuse me, what does Chernobyl have to do with it? These are two different reactors ...." - according to reports from open sources, the Burevestnik uses an OPEN-type nuclear air-jet engine. Yes, of course, the reactors are different, but the result will be similar - radioactive contamination of the atmosphere. The Burevestnik has a low-power reactor, and protective measures have been taken, so the pollution will be less. But it will be. And considering that to start the oncological process in a person, one free radical molecule is sufficient, and this will be enough for someone.
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 27 September 2020 09: 16
        -1
        according to reports from open sources, the "Burevestnik" uses an OPEN-type nuclear jet engine

        Excuse me, what is the "open type" reactor? I have not heard of this ...
        The Burevestnik has a low-power reactor, and protective measures have been taken, so the pollution will be less

        What protection measures can there be in a reactor "open" to all winds? .... Or maybe it is low-power, because it is not quite hmm ... "open"?
        And given that to start the oncological process in a person, one free radical molecule is sufficient
        And we have free radicals represented by one molecule in the body? and they are formed only with radioactive irradiation ... And from the use of alcohol, for example, not a single molecule is formed ... He only removes "harmful radiation" from alcohol ... But Litvinenko did not know ... what should be treated for polonium It was...
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 21: 49
    +1
    Quote: nobody75
    This will make it possible to create a nuclear engine for interplanetary flights ... The engine that Korolev, Kurchatov and Keldysh dreamed of ... The problem was in a compact high-temperature reactor and ... a cooling system ... According to the simple laws of physics and thermodynamics, heat transfer in space impossible ... To cool the reactor, a droplet radiator is needed ... such a large radiator that throws droplets into space ... They are cooled due to radiation ... and he collects them back ...

    No one argues with space. NAFIGA is a land-based cruise missile with a nuclear reactor. The accident in Nyonoksa - is that not enough? It is necessary that if you jumped, so from the heart ??? Why is this necessary ???? I want to do something that others do not have, make a couple more hypersonic cruise missiles without these nuclear bells and whistles ...
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 26 September 2020 21: 54
      -1
      Forgive me, but the reactor needs to "fly" in front of space ... Otherwise it may not start ... It's gas-cooled ... otherwise it would have cost one Poseidon ... Submariners with fast neutron reactors have been playing for a long time ... To offend pilots nizya! !!
    2. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 06: 01
      +1
      "Nobody argues with space" - yes it is a fake. Nuclear engines for space have nothing to do with Burevestnik.
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 27 September 2020 14: 02
        +1
        I'm already tired of writing about this ... Until a reactor is taught to fly in the atmosphere, it will not be launched into space ... Each such reactor is worth its weight in gold.
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 21: 50
    -1
    Вот, кстати, статья про то, для чего нужны Посейдон и буревестник ...https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE-%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C
    By the way, it says that a fast neutron reactor means a double-circuit ... And in Chernobyl, a single-circuit, for thermal ...
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 06: 12
      +1
      "By the way, here's an article on what Poseidon and the petrel are for." I do not know about "Poseidon", but to "Petrel" is generally no sideways. Fundamentally different nuclear reactors. And excuse me, the same nuclear reactor for a space tug can be tested without Poseidon. The point is that Poseiddon and Burevestnik were created to overcome the American missile defense system. But America actually does not have a working missile defense system against Russian missiles, and the creation of such a missile defense system is not planned. Anyway, the combat effectiveness and cost / effectiveness ratio of Poseidon and Petrel raises a lot of questions.
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 27 September 2020 09: 30
        0
        "Poseidon" is needed to test the automatic control system of the reactor ... This very Poseidon appeared akurat at the moment when they finished rewriting the reactor from Fortran ...
        but to "Petrel" is generally no sideways. Fundamentally different nuclear reactors
        And here and there gas-cooled reactors ... What is the fundamental difference? flying in the atmosphere will enable telemetry to be collected.
        But America actually does not have a working missile defense against Russian missiles, and the creation of such a missile defense is not planned
        On the "not planned" account, you got excited ...
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 21: 51
    +2
    Quote: _Ugene_
    Likewise, the Soviet (Russian) missile defense system
    Is there a Russian missile defense system? or are you talking about what is over Moscow?

    You're right. The one near Moscow. At the very least, it exists and is being modernized ...
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 26 September 2020 22: 10
      0
      What's the point of these systems launching rockets from a gravity well? For atmospheric and atmospheric interception on a collision course? But if you assemble a spaceship with a reactor, which is capable of interorbital maneuvers ... ABM becomes interesting ... And a global strike looks different ... "We'll just throw stones at them"
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 06: 21
        +1
        A nuclear reactor in space is to power an electrojet engine, mainly for interplanetary flights. For orbital flights, such a scheme is poorly suited.
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 27 September 2020 09: 32
          0
          According to the TZ TEM is an interorbital tug
          In Roskosmos, not only journalists are sitting ...
          For orbital flights, such a scheme is poorly suited
          And why? Calculations in the studio !!!
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 22: 38
    +2
    Quote: poquello
    Quote: Old26
    NOT ONE warhead has space velocity,

    when is it up or when is it down? )

    It seems that I wrote in normal Russian that the speed at the end of the OUT (active section of the trajectory), when the rocket stage engines are still running, is less than the cosmic speed. For if it were equal to or greater, the unit would go into a closed orbit, and in order to "remove" it from there, a braking propulsion system would be required, as in the control compartment of the 8F021 orbital warhead with 8F673 unit. And the refueling was almost 2 tons of SRT, despite the fact that the speed of the OGC was slightly less than the space one.
    And "down" - the speed will drop due to braking

    Quote: nobody75
    How to test a flying Chernobyl over your own territory?

    Excuse me, what does Chernobyl have to do with it? These are two different reactors ....

    Have you heard the expression "flying Chernobyl for the first time? This is not about the type of reactor, but the fact that it will fly in the atmosphere over the territory of Russia with unpredictable consequences

    Quote: nobody75
    What's the point of these systems launching rockets from a gravity well? For atmospheric and atmospheric interception on a collision course? But if you assemble a spaceship with a reactor, which is capable of interorbital maneuvers ... ABM becomes interesting ... And a global strike looks different ... "We'll just throw stones at them"

    First, you need to create such a boat. SOI also looked very interesting in the pictures and in the description, but the difficulties that would arise in this case would be formidable. First the ship. Then create a weapon of rapid global strike. Not a concept, as the Americans now have, but a real-life weapon - we'll talk later. While it goes through the section "fantasy"
    1. poquello
      poquello 27 September 2020 00: 56
      0
      Quote: Old26
      I kind of wrote in normal Russian that the speed at the end of the OUT (active section of the trajectory), when the rocket stage engines are still running, is less than the cosmic speed

      when is it up, but the pulse mode is not?
      ett as here one about "once the planning unit - so without engines" issued
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 22: 46
    -1
    Have you heard the expression "flying Chernobyl for the first time? This is not about the type of reactor, but the fact that it will fly in the atmosphere over the territory of Russia with unpredictable consequences

    Forgive me, but if my memory serves me correctly, fast reactors have a metal coolant. In an emergency, it freezes and the core is sealed ...
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 06: 27
      0
      "Fast reactors have a metal coolant. In an accident, it freezes and the core is sealed" - the K-27 Hiroshima submarine had metal coolant reactors. But something didn’t grow together with hermeticization - "as a result of the reactor accident, the entire crew was overexposed and suffered acute radiation sickness, 20 people received radiation doses from 600 to 1000 R [. 9 crew members died."
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 27 September 2020 09: 39
        -1
        Sorry, it's all the same K 19 - "Hiroshima", A K 27 - "Nagasaki". And on K 27 there was a "fundamentally" different intermediate neutron reactor. At 82, the reactor was quietly shut down and flooded ... And the accidents ... so when was it? in the 60s of the last century?
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 22: 50
    -1
    First, you need to create such a boat. SOI also looked very interesting in the pictures and in the description, but the difficulties that would arise in this case would be formidable. First the ship. Then create a weapon of rapid global strike. Not a concept, as the Americans now have, but a real-life weapon - we'll talk later. While it goes through the section "fantasy"

    They have been building this way for more than one year ...
    And as for science fiction ... My modest knowledge of differential pursuit games tells me that intercepting ICBMs with the A-135 is fantastic ...
  • rotfuks
    rotfuks 26 September 2020 22: 55
    +1
    The American man in the street cannot be frightened by some supersonic missiles. The American man in the street has long been brainwashed by the "dream factory". If you regularly watch American films, then they have won everyone and everything for a long time. And aliens from space and aliens with superweapons. So do not scare them with supersonic sound. They believe any Hollywood fairy tale. Remember when in Pakistan the SEALs attacked Benladen's house and fell on a concrete fence with a helicopter. The helicopter burned to the ground, but according to the authorities, not a single military man was killed. Do you believe that no one was killed when the helicopter with the landing party fell? But the whole world believed it.
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 22: 57
    0
    SOI also looked very interesting in the pictures and in the description, but the difficulties that would arise in this case would be insurmountable

    You and I have seen different pictures studied ...
    What fundamental difficulties have arisen in the creation of a "crackle" (gamma laser), except for the lack of an orbital station and experience in installation in open space? Now, thanks to the ISS and orbiting telescopes, they have such experience ... Rogozin is not far behind the RG Spectrum launched ...
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 23: 05
    0
    I kind of wrote in normal Russian that the speed at the end of the OUT (active section of the trajectory), when the rocket stage engines are still running, is less than the cosmic speed. For if it were equal or more, the block would move into a closed orbit

    The closedness of the orbit is just not necessary ... Let's just say, it would dangle on a certain finite trajectory and make a few revolutions ... until it collapsed ...
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 23: 15
    +1
    Quote: Volder
    If the blocks and missiles that launch them do not maneuver, flying strictly along a ballistic trajectory, then they can be shot down by anti-missiles. The US missile defense system will cope with Iranian and North Korean missiles, but Russia will no longer be able to cope with missiles. all ICBMs of Russia fly along a quasi-ballistic trajectory.

    How do we like to use any terms that speaks about the coolness of weapons ???? But you yourself understand what heresy you wrote about the Russian ICBM? It looks like no. But to write "hypersonic", "quasi-ballistic" or heard of the weapon systems - it's oh, how cool.
    And you know that in addition to the only plus (missiles are detected by ground-based early warning radars later than those flying along a conventional ballistic trajectory, since the apogee of a quasi-ballistic trajectory is about three times less), a rocket flying along a quasi-ballistic trajectory has no other pluses - solid minuses. The range of a rocket flying along a quasi-ballistic trajectory is approximately THREE less than a purely ballistic one. The payload (more precisely, the throwing weight) is approximately the same proportion less. That is, if you launch the same Topol along a quasi-ballistic trajectory, then its range will be about 10 instead of 000 km, and the throw weight will be about 3 kg instead of a real ton.
    NOT ONE Russian ICBMs simply will not reach US territory when launched from Russia. So the Americans will not really intercept them if they fly along such a trajectory.
    And the American missile defense system will not cope with Russian ICBMs for a completely different reason. The American GBI interceptor has a target hit probability of about 0,9-0,95. This means that for 100% destruction of the target (Russian BG), 2 to 3 interceptors will be needed. In order to intercept with a 100% guarantee only the combat equipment of the "Voevoda" (not to mention false heavy targets), you will need a minimum TWENTY anti-missile, tk. they have monoblock kinetic warheads. They will not cope due to the fact that there will not be enough interceptors, and not due to the fact that the Russian missiles will fly along a quasi-ballistic trajectory

    Quote: Volder
    As for the Russian missile defense system, our Moscow Nudol / Amur system, as well as the S-500 air defense system, can shoot down quasi-ballistic targets.

    "Nudoli" is not yet in service, the parameters of the interceptor are not known. The S-500 will most likely be able to shoot down medium-range missiles, not ICBMs.
    The American Minutemans, like the Tridens, are ballistic missiles. In the same way, the Topol, Topol-M, Yars, Voevoda and, in the future, Sarmat are ballistic. The trajectory is set by a change in the control system software and nothing else.

    At present, quasi-ballistic missiles are beneficial at ranges of the order of 1000 km, when such a trajectory reduces the enemy's reaction time. For ICBMs and SLBMs, this is nonsense

    Quote: Volder
    US interceptor missiles in Alaska are not capable of shooting down even conventional RF ICBMs, let alone Avangard. Why - explained above.

    What are you talking about? so not capable? This means that the Minuteman's own analogues are capable, but the Russian ones are not. Learn materiel, dear. There are many serious materials on the network, incl. and on missile defense systems, and on quasi-ballistic trajectories. Don't focus only on urya-resources and Wikipedia
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 06: 33
      +1
      "The American GBI interceptor has a probability of hitting a target of about 0,9-0,95" - I met other data - to intercept an ICBM with a probability of 0,9 four GBI. Those. the probability of repelling a massive strike is even lower.
  • Old26
    Old26 26 September 2020 23: 19
    +2
    Quote: nobody75
    The closedness of the orbit is just not necessary ... Let's just say, it would dangle on a certain finite trajectory and make a few revolutions ... until it collapsed ...

    Several revolutions are already ORBITAL speed. The accuracy of such a block is "ten bast shoes" on the map

    Quote: nobody75
    Forgive me, but if my memory serves me correctly, fast reactors have a metal coolant. In an emergency, it freezes and the core is sealed ...

    Are you ready to lay your head that there is a fast neutron reactor at the Burevestnik? Moreover, the working medium on the "Burevesnik" seems to be air?
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 26 September 2020 23: 34
      0
      And for me, excuse me, is there any sense in laying something? You asked about the practical meaning ... I wrote .... It's just that a gas-cooled single-loop reactor makes no sense to teach to fly ... And it won't fly anywhere ... it will overheat and the core will melt.
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 23: 28
    0
    The American GBI interceptor has a target hit probability of about 0,9-0,95

    Isn't this fantasy? And in the dogon? Can you see statistics on real shooting? I hope there were more than 20 of them in all types of ICBMs? 0,95 ... direct hit ... in space ... mbr from any direction ...
    Fairy tales, legends toasts .... Mat model who counted? Manufacturer? RAND?
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 23: 44
    0
    Moreover, the working medium on the "Burevesnik" seems to be air?

    Yes, the working medium for creating jet thrust is air ... But
    the speed is subsonic, so this is not a straight-through ... There are two possible options
    1 single-loop air-cooled reactor
    This version has problems with cooling the reactor, because not all the heat (according to Carnot's theorem on the efficiency of a heat engine) is spent on creating jet thrust
    2 double-circuit - problems with power density
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 26 September 2020 23: 47
    +2
    Borisov ... Borisov ...! Why Borisov? Is he the only one? A whole team is working for the "Kremlin"! There Murakhovsky, Korotchenko, and others will be found! How many times have they "bred turuses on wheels"! Among them, Korotchenko is especially distinguished by this! In any hole - a chopik ... in the pocket of any Pinocchio - "golden key"! Every now and then he lies, and does not blush! Often, such a "blizzard" drives that it remains to be surprised how the ears do not curl up into a tube! But someone also believes ...
  • nobody75
    nobody75 26 September 2020 23: 49
    -1
    Several revolutions are already ORBITAL speed. The accuracy of such a block is "ten bast shoes" on the map

    I wrote not about this ... If you do not bother with the calculation of the orbit, but simply accelerate the bb to 10 km / s, then it is not a fact that an elliptical orbit will turn out
  • Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 27 September 2020 00: 38
    +1
    it is impossible to predict when, where it will be at the next moment in time

    Is Bonya at the control panel?
  • Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 27 September 2020 02: 26
    -1
    Yes, they have reset all the expensive American missile defense
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 27 September 2020 06: 42
      +3
      Zero what was not there? The American intercontinental missile defense system consists of as many as 44 GBI interceptor missiles, capable of striking only one-piece ICBMs. TNAAD and AEGIS are capable of fighting only with medium and shorter-range missiles, ICBMs are too tough for them. And we are talking about a terrible and terrible American missile defense system, because of which everyone needs not to sleep, but urgently all the people to rivet "Vanguards", "Poseidons" and "Petrel".
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 27 September 2020 09: 51
        +1
        OK. We are not afraid of missile defense. And what to do with "Starlink"? It is, by the way, on ip v6 ... You cannot connect "Sorm" to it and, scary to say, Roskomnadzor locks do not work there !!! And without the Vanguards, Poseidons and Petrels, there is only one way out ... To marry the Robot Fyodor Yandeksovskaya Alice - so that they give birth to Artificial Inlectics ... Then their offspring will replace the "Arbat Artists" and capture "Starlink" during the Suvorov Hacker Attack .. ...
  • nobody75
    nobody75 27 September 2020 10: 40
    0
    How do we like to use any terms that speaks about the coolness of weapons ???? But you yourself understand what heresy you wrote about the Russian ICBM? It looks like no. But to write "hypersonic", "quasi-ballistic" or heard of the weapon systems - it's oh, how cool.

    An amazing misunderstanding of the entire depth of our depths !!!
    Iskander the Two-Horned has Two Horns (because life is a struggle). And each of the rockets flies along a QUASIBALISTIC trajectory! Exclusively so that there would be no point in placing them in Anadyr.
    According to the great plans of our "Arbat Artists", Stirlitz with a "Novichok" is hiding inside each rocket. And this newcomer is poisoning the Europeans to the entire operational depth .... Following the strikes by the Iskanders, armored vehicles (motorized riflemen) march to the English Channel .... Collecting trophies along the way.
    In response, the Americans are deploying low-yield W76-2 warheads on the Tridents. And the trident themselves threaten to launch along a QUASIBALISTIC trajectory ... So that our missile defense system tied the routes and calculated that the warheads fly to Europe, and not to Russia .... W76-2 will cover the armored cars red-handed ... operation ". The economic effect could have been corrected by the robbery given to each - to the "Ukrainian Chests" team, but the Americans promptly stopped this threat by staging a coup in Ukraine ...
  • Old26
    Old26 27 September 2020 14: 09
    +3
    Quote: poquello
    when is it up, but the pulse mode is not?

    And you can ask, how is the impulse mode sideways (and what, by the way) with the ICBM rocket engines running?

    Quote: nobody75
    My modest knowledge of differential pursuit games tells me that intercepting ICBMs with the A-135 is fantastic ...

    I have no such modest knowledge in the field of differential games, but you tell all this to the creators of this missile defense system ... They did not and do not know that the system is capable of intercepting up to 16 paired targets.

    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    "The American GBI interceptor has a probability of hitting a target of about 0,9-0,95" - I met other data - to intercept an ICBM with a probability of 0,9 four GBI. Those. the probability of repelling a massive strike is even lower.

    You are not entirely correct. If this was written, it was clearly written by a journalist. The formula by which the required number of interceptors is calculated is very simple. Namely

    n = Lg (1-Pn) / Lg (1-P1), Where
    n - the number of interceptors required
    Pn is the total probability of hitting a target by n interceptors
    P1 - unit probability of hitting a target by one interceptor.

    If we substitute the numbers, then with a unit probability in 0,9 to intercept a target with a probability 0,999 required THREE interceptor, with probability 0,99 - TWO.

    With a unit probability of interception in 0,95 to intercept with probability 0,9999 (i.e. 99, 99%) you need THREE interceptor, with a probability of 0,997 - TWO.

    FOUR the interceptor is required for the total probability of 0,999 at a single 0,85

    By the way, the Aegis standard interceptor missiles are less likely to be hit, just about 0,8-0,85

    Quote: nobody75
    The American GBI interceptor has a target hit probability of about 0,9-0,95

    Isn't this fantasy? And in the dogon? Can you see statistics on real shooting? I hope there were more than 20 of them in all types of ICBMs? 0,95 ... direct hit ... in space ... mbr from any direction ...
    Fairy tales, legends toasts .... Mat model who counted? Manufacturer? RAND?

    Not fiction. And interception on colliding courses. Statistics - there were statistics on "Standards" and GBI on the network about three years ago. If I find a file, I'll post it.

    An ICBM cannot fly from any direction. But hitting the target is more likely than in the upper layers - you can. Who counted - I was not interested. I was interested in the end result. The publication was ours (not US)

    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Borisov ... Borisov ...! Why Borisov? Is he the only one? A whole team is working for the "Kremlin"! There Murakhovsky, Korotchenko, and others will be found! How many times have they "bred turuses on wheels"! Among them, Korotchenko is especially distinguished by this! In any hole - a chopik ... in the pocket of any Pinocchio - "golden key"! Every now and then he lies, and does not blush! Often, such a "blizzard" drives that it remains to be surprised how the ears do not curl up into a tube! But someone also believes ...

    Namesake! Well, Borisov was remembered because of what he said. The faces you have voiced can be supplemented with a dozen or more others. On "Adventure" (EMNIP) there is even such a topic ANALYTEGI, where many are mentioned

    Quote: nobody75
    Several revolutions are already ORBITAL speed. The accuracy of such a block is "ten bast shoes" on the map

    I wrote not about this ... If you do not bother with the calculation of the orbit, but simply accelerate the bb to 10 km / s, then it is not a fact that an elliptical orbit will turn out

    A counter question, which one?

    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    Zero what was not there? The American intercontinental missile defense system consists of as many as 44 GBI interceptor missiles, capable of striking only one-piece ICBMs. TNAAD and AEGIS are capable of fighting only with medium and shorter-range missiles, ICBMs are too tough for them. And we are talking about a terrible and terrible American missile defense system, because of which everyone needs not to sleep, but urgently all the people to rivet "Vanguards", "Poseidons" and "Petrel".

    Sergei! Why only monoblock ones? GBI can also hit the MIRV, only the flow rate will be such that it will "zero" all US missile defense systems. Somewhere I came across information that to defeat all potential targets of one of our "Voyevoda" (BB, heavy decoys, breeding stage) will need at least 19 (NINETEEN) interceptor missiles (if equipped with a monoblock kinetic interceptor).

    Quote: nobody75
    Iskander the Two-Horned has Two Horns (because life is a struggle). And each of the rockets flies along a QUASIBALISTIC trajectory! Exclusively so that there would be no point in placing them in Anadyr.
    According to the great plans of our "Arbat Artists", Stirlitz with a "Novichok" is hiding inside each rocket. And this newcomer is poisoning the Europeans to the entire operational depth .... Following the strikes by the Iskanders, armored vehicles (motorized riflemen) march to the English Channel .... Collecting trophies along the way.
    In response, the Americans are deploying low-yield W76-2 warheads on the Tridents. And the trident themselves threaten to launch along a QUASIBALISTIC trajectory ... So that our missile defense system tied the routes and calculated that the warheads fly to Europe, and not to Russia .... W76-2 will cover the armored cars red-handed ... operation ". The economic effect could have been corrected by the robbery given to each - to the "Ukrainian Chests" team, but the Americans promptly stopped this threat by staging a coup in Ukraine ...

    Well, why make a mistake? Like serious questions being discussed?
    Yes, the 9M723 missile of the Iskander complex flies along a "quasi-ballistic" trajectory. It's hardcoded into her management system. But when the control system is reprogrammed and the 9M723 is launched along a ballistic trajectory, the range will almost triple. This complex was created under the Tender program to replace the Oki destroyed under the INF Treaty. But a complex with a "long-range" sight was created. To find fault that will exceed the range is impossible, tk. in order for the range to increase, refinement would be required ...
    I leave your further "delights" without comment. Apparently, your arguments are running out and literature has gone into battle
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 27 September 2020 15: 24
      0
      Oh, I have a lot of arguments ... But you also need to drink tea
      I wrote not about this ... If you do not bother with the calculation of the orbit, but simply accelerate the bb to 10 km / s, then it is not a fact that an elliptical orbit will turn out

      A counter question, which one?

      You won't get an elliptical path anyway. In near space, to paraphrase VV Putin, we can say that the atmosphere, like Russia, does not end anywhere ... So the trajectory of the bb will be a spiral, and a spatial one ... And a little higher, from about 500 km, will have to be taken into account, that the Earth is a double planet "Earth-moon". We will be able to obtain the trajectory only numerically .... And its stability, you are right, this is already the literature "The problem of three bodies"
    2. poquello
      poquello 27 September 2020 18: 12
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: poquello
      when is it up, but the pulse mode is not?

      And you can ask, how is the impulse mode sideways (and what, by the way) with the ICBM rocket engines running?

      Yes, I can ask you exactly the same thing,))))))))))))))))))))), and where did you get that the operation of the engines is limited to the output to the height? there are three sections, just the first is the slowest
  • Old26
    Old26 27 September 2020 16: 43
    +1
    Quote: nobody75
    You won't get an elliptical path anyway.

    Yes? and the so-called the orbit of "Molniya" or what else is it called VEO, how do you think it turns out?

    Quote: nobody75
    In near space, to paraphrase VV Putin, we can say that the atmosphere, like Russia, never ends ...

    You will write down 6 BB's statements in the memorial. There may be many statements uttered for the electorate and very far from reality. He does not need to tell the truth about this or that weapon system. He needs to say what the electorate wants to hear. That is why the speech about "Weapons on March 1" was 2 weeks before the elections. And the whole country, including housewives, discussed the performance characteristics of all the weapon systems he voiced? So? Someone took the trouble to see what the surface temperature of the product will be at a speed of at least 10M at an altitude of 10-12 km? The probability is close to zero. But our esteemed President said for the people that the apparatus would be able to fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed exceeding 20M? Whom to believe? President or the laws of physics? I prefer to believe the last
    So it is with the atmosphere ...

    Quote: nobody75
    So the trajectory bb will be a spiral, and a spatial one ... And a little higher, from about 500 km, you will have to take into account that the Earth is a double planet "Earth-moon".

    For information. exclusively for you. The maximum trajectory of the latest generation of intercontinental ballistic missiles (with a range of 10-12 thousand kilometers) is about 1300 km. Thousand three hundred. So your spiraling warheads are non-existent. If you give them a speed of about 10 km / s, they will become orbital (the trajectory can be elliptical as well). There can be no question of any "spiral". The height of the trajectory of 500 km, which you take almost as a boundary condition, is the height of the trajectory of a rocket with a range of TWO THOUSAND KILOMETERS ...
    Your materiel is on both legs. So you better not write what you do not know reliably
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 27 September 2020 19: 18
      +1
      The maximum trajectory of the latest generation of intercontinental ballistic missiles (with a range of 10-12 thousand kilometers) is about 1300 km. Thousand three hundred. So your spiraling warheads are non-existent. If you give them a speed of about 10 km / s, they will become orbital (the trajectory can be elliptical as well).

      Forgive me, they are not mine ... I didn’t offer any warheads with the given initial and boundary conditions ... You spread the discourse on this topic above. I just considered the hypothetical problem of the movement of a material point in a gravitational field in the presence of aerodynamic drag. Let it be known to you that if you have it, you will never get a strictly periodic trajectory! You will always have to raise a satellite or a station! 500 km is the lower limit of the exosphere. Starting from it, it makes practical sense to take into account the disturbances of the Moon and the Sun.
      Regarding the spiral trajectory ... Here is a quote from the Wiki about the ISS orbit, the apogee of which is at the border of the exosphere:
      "The altitude of the ISS orbit is constantly changing. Due to friction against the rarefied atmosphere, gradual deceleration and loss of altitude occurs. The station's orbit is corrected using its own engines (until the summer of 2000 - FGB Zarya, after - SM Zvezda) and engines of incoming transport ships , which also refuel. At one time they were limited to compensation for the descent. Recently, the orbit height has been steadily increasing.
      In order to minimize the influence of the atmosphere, the station had to be raised to 390-400 km. However, in order to increase the total payload of American shuttles, it had to be kept lower, adjusting only a couple of times a year. "What trajectory is the ISS moving along? Elliptical? Or is it in a spiral?
      Now about the influence of the moon in practice ...
      Due to the lowering of the perigee under the influence of the Moon's gravity, the Soviet station Luna 3 with the original orbital parameters
      apogee 480 km
      perigee 47 500 km
      circulation period 15 days,
      died after completing 11 revolutions, entering the atmosphere of the earth ... On what trajectory did Moon 3 move? Periodic? And the materiel, believe me, I know quite well ...
  • Old26
    Old26 27 September 2020 20: 45
    +2
    Quote: poquello
    Yes, I can ask you exactly the same thing,))))))))))))))))))))), and where did you get that the operation of the engines is limited to the output to the height? there are three sections, just the first is the slowest

    And what is it limited to? The operating time of the 15С301 assembly is 121 seconds with a thrust of about 180 tons. The speed at the end of OUT-1 is 3161 m / s. The next stage is the assembly of the 15С302 - the operating time is 183 seconds with a thrust of about 22 tons. The final speed is 5689 m / s. The first stage gives a speed of about 55%, while less than 40% of the operating time of the main engines works. After the end of the stage of operation of the 2nd stage, the propulsion system of the APB (or combat stage) comes into operation. Traction - 0,5 tons, Time - 50 seconds (but this is with MIRV 15F355). What are the parameters of the BS in the presence of "Vanguard" are unknown. Incl. running time and traction
    1. poquello
      poquello 27 September 2020 21: 56
      0
      Quote: Old26
      After the end of the stage of work of the 2nd stage, the propulsion system of APB comes into operation

      and? it delivers the block to the place of descent, and in the vanguard there is a jump-start booster block, which does not interfere with pressing below the tangent, because the movement goes to the ground and not in orbit
  • Old26
    Old26 27 September 2020 20: 48
    +2
    Quote: nobody75
    Forgive me, they are not mine ... I did not offer any warheads with the given initial and boundary conditions ... It was you on this topic who lit the discourse above.

    Dear Ilya! We are talking about a combat missile, and I gave the available parameters specifically for a combat missile, but you are citing space parameters as evidence. I propose to dwell on this and not prove to each other.
  • nobody75
    nobody75 27 September 2020 21: 49
    +1
    Yes? and the so-called the orbit of "Molniya" or what else is it called VEO, how do you think it turns out?

    It is easily obtained ... Due to the platform correction engines ... If the VEO were really VEO, the active life would exceed 10 years ... And so, it will be from 3 to 8 years ...
    The quasi-geostationarity of HEO is based on the spherical shape of the Earth and Kepler's second law, and it is proven only for the central gravitational field (where the gravitational force is directed along the radius - vector) ... There are problems ... The Earth is a geoid, the satellite rotates around the center masses of the "Earth - Moon" system. We have to take a reference - an ellipsoid for the model of the earth (we usually take Krassovsky, and the topographers made all the maps of the USSR on it, but we need the satellite to hang over a certain point on the map most of the time). In this case, the Keplerian orbital elements describe the motion only approximately. Between us, Keplerian coordinates can be used in the TWO-BODY PROBLEM! How many of them do we have? Earth - 1, Moon - 2, satellite (one of the lightning in the orbit of the same name) - 3 ..... As a result, we obtain SIMPLIFICATION OF AN ANALYTICALLY UNSOLVED PROBLEM OF THREE BODIES TO THE PROBLEM OF TWO BODIES. ACCORDINGLY THE GREATEST ERROR HAS OMEGA - THE ARGUMENT OF THE PERICENTER. That is why the satellites on the VEO have an inclination of about 63 degrees with a penny .... Did I answer your question?
    1. poquello
      poquello 27 September 2020 23: 21
      0
      Quote: nobody75
      spherical earth

      spherical core of the Earth
  • nobody75
    nobody75 27 September 2020 22: 09
    +1
    So? Someone took the trouble to see what the surface temperature of the product will be at a speed of at least 10M at an altitude of 10-12 km? The probability is close to zero. But our esteemed President said for the people that the apparatus would be able to fly in dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed exceeding 20M? Whom to believe? President or the laws of physics? I prefer to believe the last
    So it is with the atmosphere ...

    Explain, please, why the vanguard 20M at 10 - 12 km, when you can fly at an altitude of 150 - 200 km?
    About the atmosphere
    I quote from https://spacegid.com/atmosfera-zemli.html#i-8
    "Exosphere
    The last layer of the Earth's atmosphere, the lower boundary of which runs at an altitude of 700 kilometers, is the exosphere (from the other Greek root "exo" - outside, outside). It is incredibly scattered and consists mainly of atoms of the lightest element - hydrogen; also come across individual atoms of oxygen and nitrogen, which are strongly ionized by the all-pervading radiation of the sun.
    The dimensions of the Earth's exosphere are incredibly large - it grows into the Earth's crown, the geocorona, which stretches up to 100 thousand kilometers from the planet. It is very rarefied - the concentration of particles is millions of times less than the density of ordinary air. But if the Moon obscures the Earth for a distant spacecraft, then the crown of our planet will be visible, as we can see the crown of the Sun during its eclipse. However, this phenomenon has not yet been observed. "
    So who should I believe you or Putin? In my calculations, I usually take the lower limit of the exosphere at 500 km, since it is highly dependent on sunny weather
  • rtutaloe
    rtutaloe 28 September 2020 08: 55
    0
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: rtutaloe
    "maneuver" "at a hypersonic speed of 21 km / h"

    When the block leaves orbit, its speed is slightly lower than the first space speed. And it wasn't maneuvering that was the problem. At this time, the unit is wrapped in plasma and because of this, it does not have the opportunity to receive information on its own or to receive it from the outside, so it does not know where to steer. And it looks like ours solved this problem.
    .

    I am a little aware of this topic.
  • Old26
    Old26 28 September 2020 11: 28
    +2
    Quote: nobody75
    Explain, please, why the vanguard 20M at 10 - 12 km, when you can fly at an altitude of 150 - 200 km?

    You ask Vladimir Vladimirovich this. It was they who, on March 1, 208, EMNIP, announced the following parameters: "In dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed over 20M". And very many begin to repeat the words of the President as the ultimate truth. Without thinking that it is sometimes beyond the physical laws. And about flying at altitudes of 150-200 km, I have no objections ...

    Quote: poquello
    and? it delivers the block to the place of descent, and in the vanguard there is a jump-start booster block, which does not interfere with pressing below the tangent, because the movement goes to the ground and not in orbit

    APB never delivered anyone "to the place of descent." In the presence of a MIRV, this unit carries out the "delivery" of warheads and targeting them. All this happens within almost 3 minutes for the 15A35-71 (15A71) ICBMs. Then they, the "heart" ones, fly along the trajectories along which they were directed.
    What is the "jump-start upper stage (damn it, we have already switched from technical language to the slang of our media) for the 71st product ??? Its head fairing is about 4 meters. And inside this GO is" Vanguard ". Places under the fairing for" jump-start " there is simply no upper stage physically. The technical characteristics of the Avangard are such that of the currently existing ICBMs, only 35-1 missiles and the Voevoda can theoretically lift it. Neither Topol / Topol-M, nor Yars, nor Bulava "They cannot do this. It is too heavy for them. Otherwise, MIT would not have developed its GZPKB on a topic that received the name of one of the plants of the mulberry family.
    1. poquello
      poquello 28 September 2020 20: 35
      0
      Quote: Old26
      APB never delivered anyone "to the place of descent." In the presence of a MIRV, this unit carries out the "delivery" of warheads

      well, everything is "hello girls"

      Quote: Old26
      Its head fairing is about 4 meters.

      Sorry chirtizhov no
      Quote: Old26
      of the currently existing ICBMs, only 35-1 missiles and Voevoda can theoretically lift it

      and what did you experience on the Kura?
  • nobody75
    nobody75 28 September 2020 20: 58
    0
    You are not entirely correct. If this was written, it was clearly written by a journalist. The formula by which the required number of interceptors is calculated is very simple. Namely

    n = Lg (1-Pn) / Lg (1-P1), where
    n - the number of interceptors required
    Pn is the total probability of hitting a target by n interceptors
    P1 is the unit probability of hitting a target with one interceptor.

    If you substitute the numbers, then with a unit probability of 0,9 to intercept a target with a probability of 0,999, THREE interceptors are required, with a probability of 0,99 - TWO.

    Excuse me, but why make mistakes? We seem to be discussing serious things .... A manual for combat use.
    I confess that I like to make fun of the same, but only at the students in the exams ...
    I would ask a blonde student: "Why is the decimal logarithm in your formula, while AA Bobrikov has a natural logarithm?" But, apparently, you are a serious person, so I have only two questions:
    1 Are you going to fire in a salvo with anti-missiles?
    2 Will the shooting take place without solving the target allocation problem?
    For example, two monobloc missiles are flying - one at a cornfield in California, and the other at the city of Washington. It is generally inappropriate to intercept the first one ... Because, as the states say: "All evil comes from California," but the second and ten interceptors are not a pity ...