Military Review

General in the USA: Military equipment on electric drive will soon compete with equipment on hydrocarbon fuel on the battlefield

63

In the United States, a program is presented to put into service army vehicles and armored vehicles equipped with electric motors. The Pentagon says that such a program reflects a general concept according to which the latest military equipment of the US Army "will be less dependent on fossil fuels."


Electric vehicles in the American army still exist today, but these are rather isolated cases. Moreover, such vehicles are not combat vehicles.
The new program involves the creation of electric vehicles that could be used in combat operations. It is reported that the implemented requirements imply an increase in the number of tactical advantages, including the power reserve.

From concept:

... the possibility is underway to double the duration of the use of electrically powered vehicles in combat operations, to reduce the noise level, as well as to reduce the logistical burden, including the need for hydrocarbon fuel supplies.

US Army Lieutenant General Eric Wesley:

We are focused not only on equipping military equipment with electric motors, but also on how an entire enterprise can operate to maintain a fleet of such equipment in good condition.

General Wesley believes that the day is not far off when electric-powered military equipment will seriously compete with hydrocarbon-powered equipment, including on the battlefield.

Wesley:

We are now exploring the possibility of implementing this approach, studying aspects of the new program.
63 comments
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  1. hrych
    hrych 23 September 2020 09: 46
    0
    With the compact YSU it is possible
    1. Login_Off
      Login_Off 23 September 2020 10: 45
      +1
      Probably.
      Electrical engineering with a 300 km range and quick-change battery cells.
      The convoy has a supply of batteries.
      At the YSU department with a loading machine.

      It may well be more profitable than hydrocarbons.
      1. hrych
        hrych 23 September 2020 10: 52
        +8
        There is a tractor circuit where a generator works, and electric motors drive the tracks. In theory, a battery instead of a generator and hello. However, the battery is not a source of eternal energy, it only accumulates it from the same diesel generators, from power grids, which are mainly on hydrocarbons, well, there are hydroelectric power plants, nuclear power plants, etc. Therefore, it is nonsense to have a diesel generator charging the battery, when this hydrocarbon directly goes to the engine without losses ... Here is a certain prospect from the small nuclear power plant that charges everyone. But again, combat stability suffers. Smack her and sailed ... all. wassat
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 23 September 2020 11: 18
          +2
          Quote: hrych
          There is a certain prospect from the small nuclear power plant that charges everyone. But again, combat stability suffers. Smack her and sailed ... all.

          If you smash a small nuclear power plant in the location of the unit, then the whole area will be dangerous from radioactive contamination. Well, the technique will stop. From the point of view of combat stability, such a scheme is about nothing. Rather, there will be a gas turbine power plant on a charge, and not one ... By the way, do the military think that batteries of SUCH capacity will be less dangerous if damaged in battle than a tank with diesel fuel? In vain, in vain ... wassat
      2. orionvitt
        orionvitt 23 September 2020 14: 12
        0
        Quote: Login_Off
        At the YSU department with a charging machine

        Yeah, target number one. He put one car out of action, the whole squad was left without a move. Either thing threw a spare canister into the trunk and you don't depend on anyone. There is no doubt, sooner or later, maybe this will happen, everyone will switch to electric vehicles. But with the current technical structure, when the entire electromobility economy depends on infrastructure, this is a very big problem, practically insoluble. So, while this is the lot of science fiction writers. As they say, dreaming is not harmful.
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 23 September 2020 09: 50
    +7
    I hardly believe that the electric drive will withstand the impact of an artillery shell on the body of the car ... it will shake so that all the windings and brushes will fly out of their nests.
    And if the battery or generator is damaged, then the shvak business ... you will have to leave the equipment on the battlefield as scrap metal.
    1. hrych
      hrych 23 September 2020 10: 00
      +5
      So actually the problem with EMP. And start the diesel engine and try to stop it. Such Americans are kind futurists, and these Russians with their Krasukha or Rubella wassat yes with an EMP tool, not to mention the damaging factors of a vigorous bonba.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 23 September 2020 10: 02
        +3
        Quote: hrych
        Such Americans are kind futurists

        Maybe they are letting in the fog by a specialist? They are pushing on the wrong path, so to speak ...)
        1. hrych
          hrych 23 September 2020 10: 07
          +9
          Yes, no, they have a full-blown Musk with his Tesla. We practiced on a passenger car, sent it towards Mars and Teslo tanks dreamed of. By the way, these capacious lithium batteries are also explosives. And so it is clear, it began with cellular, when cadmium pushed out, then quadcopters, then a car and the Japanese already with a submarine. Of course, they decided to cripple the armored vehicles.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 23 September 2020 10: 11
            +5
            Quote: hrych
            Yes, no, they have a full-blown Musk with his Tesla.

            It looks like the "gloomy Teutonic genius" will be replaced by an equally gloomy Pentagon one ..
          2. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 23 September 2020 10: 12
            +1
            Quote: hrych
            And so it is clear, it began with cellular, when cadmium pushed out, then quadcopters, then a car and the Japanese already with a submarine. Of course, they decided to cripple the armored vehicles.

            But if Lukashenka blocks the diesel fuel for the war in Donbass in Ukraine, can you imagine how the ukrovoyaks will wait for the Americans to supply "electric tanks" ?! Country invented - and Wishlist should match the country, fantasy ...
      2. astepanov
        astepanov 23 September 2020 10: 36
        +1
        Quote: hrych
        So actually the problem with EMP. And start the diesel engine and try to stop it.

        EMP, which will burn the motor windings, can only be from an atomic bomb, and even then it is unlikely. But even without engines, modern technology has enough all kinds of electric drives, not to mention electronics. So your remark is meaningless.
        1. hrych
          hrych 23 September 2020 10: 45
          +4
          Firstly, the tank, at least ours, can work without electronics and wires at all. The engine is started by the launcher, you can try it "crooked" wassat The gun and transmission are all mechanics, and the optical sight has not been canceled. Therefore, even with an EMP of a nuclear explosion, our tank remains a combat unit, and it also perfectly protects the crew from all factors. Therefore, my remark is not devoid of meaning. laughing
          1. astepanov
            astepanov 23 September 2020 11: 31
            +1
            Yes, a tank without communication, navigation, electric drives, ventilation system ... Are you describing the coffin, or what?
            1. hrych
              hrych 23 September 2020 17: 43
              +4
              Hello, how did you fight in the Second World War? The radio stations did not appear immediately and nothing, the combat mission was carried out. Everything is clear with you, without a navigator you are fucked wassat
    2. fider
      fider 23 September 2020 10: 03
      0
      Same lech
      all the windings and brushes will fly out of their nests.

      Today, brushless generators and lithium batteries are used, and the windings are filled with plastic.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 23 September 2020 10: 05
      +4
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I hardly believe that the electric drive will withstand the impact of an artillery shell on the vehicle body.

      And without a shell it will not survive. You can ride it on the prairies, but in the mountains, in swamps, and at minus 30 temperatures, it will die at once. And the charging trucks should be nearby, the power reserve is very small. I judge at this time on the buses "Volvo-hybrid" which has both an engine and an electric motor. And they have not yet invented a battery that will be as big as a car battery and have a capacity of at least 100 km. move, and navryatli will invent.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 23 September 2020 10: 09
        +2
        .
        And they have not yet invented a battery that will be as big as a car battery and have a capacity of at least 100 km. move, and navryatli will invent.
        At the current stage of development, batteries will not be invented (I think this is a dead end) ... I think that modern batteries will replace new durable energy sources operating on different principles of energy production ... well, for example, nuclear batteries.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 23 September 2020 10: 19
          0
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          . well, for example, nuclear batteries.

          What do you think hydrogen fuel cells have prospects?
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 23 September 2020 10: 24
            0
            What do you think hydrogen fuel cells have prospects?

            Work is underway, but so far without much success ... it's hard to say for how long.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 23 September 2020 10: 26
              0
              Quote: The same LYOKHA
              it's hard to say how long.

              yes
            2. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 23 September 2020 10: 48
              +2

              ".. hydrogen fuel cells" ///
              ----
              Toyota goes to them. Major player.
              And Mercedes recently rolled out a hydrogen van.
              This circuit is much more complex than Tesla's.
              Which is as simple as a child's toy and cheap to manufacture.
              But the hydrogen circuit has a power saving benefit
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 25 September 2020 22: 43
                0
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Which is as simple as a child's toy and cheap to manufacture.

                for the price of tesla, something is not noticeable No.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 25 September 2020 23: 12
                  +1
                  Here's the whole Tesla:
                  electric motor, single-stage box, inverter, battery.
                  Add brakes and shock absorbers wink


                  And Musk recently promised to lower the price in three years to the level of budget gasoline cars.
                  1. Sanichsan
                    Sanichsan 25 September 2020 23: 24
                    0
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    And Musk recently promised to lower the price in three years to the level of budget gasoline cars.

                    he promised a lot ... the hyperloop promised, he made a promise that he would earn money, the gigofactory on solar panels and wind turbines is all robotic and with 6500 jobs ... wassat
                    as in the joke "like an adult man but believes in fairy tales request " laughing
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 26 September 2020 00: 41
                      +1
                      He does much more than he promises. There are already gigafactories (the third is being built in Germany), there are also underground tunnels. And Musk has a lot more: in biotechnology, AI, it's long to list. fellow
                      1. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 26 September 2020 01: 25
                        0
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        He does much more than he promises.

                        do you mean stock market fraud and budget cuts? it is yes. yet how he does and what is typical, without promising at all. laughing
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        There are already gigafactories

                        I lied that they would be powered by solar panels and wind turbines, in the end everything is powered by the same power plant. robotization expressed itself in a crowd of Mexicans, but I did not lie about 6500 jobs laughing
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        there are also underground tunnels.

                        hmm .. this is not the promised hyperloop .. but! remembered! Is this that moronic project of transporting cars on carts underground? he was modest! laughing for believing adepts idiocy is not enough. it was necessary to add that the tunnel will be inside a giant plane and all this will certainly be cheaper than the railway! no .. than walking! wassat
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        And Musk has a lot more: in biotechnology, AI, it's long to list.

                        sweets? attainment! laughing
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 23 September 2020 10: 31
          +1
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          At the current stage of development, batteries will not be invented (I guess this is a dead end)

          I think so too. Only alternative to battery, or hybrid.
        3. Petrograd
          Petrograd 24 September 2020 19: 52
          0
          Give Chernoble to every jeep angry (humor if that
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 23 September 2020 10: 15
        +1
        Quote: tihonmarine
        And they have not yet invented a battery that will be as big as a car battery and have a capacity of at least 100 km. move, and navryatli will invent.

        Well, 30 years ago, a battery-powered drill would have been taken as a fiction. Will invent. But, I think, not so soon.
      3. astepanov
        astepanov 23 September 2020 20: 29
        0
        Quote: tihonmarine
        And they have not yet invented a battery that will be as big as a car battery and have a capacity of at least 100 km.

        They will never invent. All anode materials with decent energy are located in the first groups and the first periods of the periodic system: they are hydrogen, lithium, sodium, magnesium, aluminum, calcium. Cathode materials - oxygen (preferably from air), sulfur, some complex compounds (very few). Alcohols and hydrocarbons can be added to the anodic ones, maybe - hydrides of lithium, sodium, magnesium and boron, and their complexes. That's the whole list, and you can't argue against thermodynamics. There are unshakable things: out of three segments, you can add only one closed figure - a triangle, this is how it was before and will be so in a thousand years, no matter how science develops. A car needs 12 kWh per 100 tonne-kilometers of track in a standard urban cycle, and you will never be able to cram them into the volume of a regular battery.
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        I think that modern batteries will replace new durable energy sources operating on different principles of energy production ... well, for example, nuclear batteries.

        Yeah. They will replace it right now. By the way, a nuclear battery for a car must have a capacity of at least half a hundred horses (which is about 36 kW), but a nuclear battery, unlike a battery, works all the time. Where will you put the energy in the parking lot? The battery will melt! And one more thing: the efficiency of a nuclear (more precisely, an isotope) battery cannot be higher than 50%. Again, the question arises: where to divert 72 kW of thermal power? And can you imagine what danger a source with such a radiation power has?
        Quote: voyaka uh
        But the hydrogen circuit has a power saving benefit
        What do you have in mind? Electricity consumption is determined by the power of the engine, not by the design of the battery. The main problem with hydrogen fuel cells is the difficulty in storing hydrogen. In a cylinder with a volume of 22,4 liters at a pressure of 500 atmospheres, you can store only 1 kg of hydrogen, and in a tank of the same volume, 18 kg of gasoline or diesel fuel can be stored. The efficiency of fuel cells is not very high, so there will be no benefit in terms of mileage, and even in terms of money - at all. And the price of a fuel cell is enormous.
      4. Mikhail m
        Mikhail m 24 September 2020 19: 59
        0
        Quote: tihonmarine
        at minus 30 temperature, it will die at once

        A sharp loss of capacity at negative temperatures is one problem. The second, under the same circumstances, is the need to heat at least the habitable space. If the internal combustion engine uses excess heat for this, then there are only batteries for the electric tank. And how many kilowatts are needed to warm up a multi-ton piece of iron ... So moving away from the outlet is very fraught.
    4. rocket757
      rocket757 23 September 2020 10: 20
      +2
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I hardly believe that the electric drive will withstand the impact of an artillery shell on the vehicle body.

      electric drives in technology are complete, of various types, mostly not of great size. Making solid is not a problem. But with the "battery" everything is much more complicated, i.e. now nothing good and nothing.
    5. Stalllker
      Stalllker 23 September 2020 10: 23
      +2
      You might think that after an artillery shell hits the body of machines with internal combustion engines, the valves and nozzles will remain in place. Yes, after 122 landmines to collect in both cases, there will be nothing
    6. L-39NG
      L-39NG 23 September 2020 10: 46
      0
      "I hardly believe that the electric drive will withstand the impact of an artillery shell on the body of the car ... it will shake so that all the windings and brushes will fly out of their nests."
      And this applies to ARMATA. And, besides, there are observation and aiming displays.
    7. astepanov
      astepanov 23 September 2020 11: 27
      +2
      It doesn't matter what he can withstand and what he can't.
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I hardly believe that the electric drive will withstand the impact of an artillery shell on the body of the car ... it will shake so that all the windings and brushes will fly out of their nests.

      This is not the problem. The highest energy density is achieved with lithium-sulfur batteries: 0,5 kWh / kg. For diesel fuel or kerosene, taking into account the efficiency of the engine, the energy density is 3 kWh / kg, i.e. 6 times higher. it should be taken into account that so far the only use of lithium-sulfur batteries is on super-high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, slug-boats with an ultralight wing and recharging from solar batteries, flying at altitudes of up to 20 km or more. Several pieces have been made. These aircraft have very gentle mechanical stresses, and the elements can be made with film hulls. On military equipment, both vibrations and shocks will require powerful housings that will reduce the performance of the batteries. The second problem is the low power of the Li-S. 0,5 kWh / kg is obtained with a ten-hour discharge, and already with a two-hour discharge it is halved. Finally, flammability, explosiveness, low resource ...
      Further, whichever battery you take, you need to charge it. This means that you need to carry a diesel generator (or rather a lot of diesel generators), to bring diesel fuel for their work ... What is the gain?
      The situation could be saved by fuel cells, but they have low power and huge cost. Moreover, the best of them, which run on hydrogen, are hardly suitable for the military - it is very difficult to store hydrogen. With other cathode materials (hydrazine, alcohols, hydrocarbons), fuel cells cope poorly.
      In my opinion, hybrid drives have the greatest prospects in military technology, which can actually reduce fuel consumption by about 30% and ensure not very distant covert movement on electric traction. They do not need to be recharged from an external power supply.
  3. mat-vey
    mat-vey 23 September 2020 09: 50
    +1
    and also to reduce the logistical burden, including the need for hydrocarbon fuel supplies.

    And the electricity for the batteries will be transmitted by X-rays through the etheric matter? Well, about the "useful" additional weight on military equipment has already been discussed so much ...
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 23 September 2020 09: 58
      +2
      And will electricity for accumulators be transmitted by X-rays through etheric matter?

      Well, in Space, where there is emptiness, there is an option to transmit energy along an energy beam ... I really don't know how it will look in reality. what ... the laws of physics do not prevent this.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 23 September 2020 10: 00
        0
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        Well, in Space, where there is emptiness, there is an option to transmit energy along an energy beam ... I really don't know how it will look in reality. what ... the laws of physics do not prevent this.

        But then not about space, right there about sinful ... And in space, electrogravity has not yet been invented ...
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 23 September 2020 10: 02
          0
          But right there not about space, right there about the sinner ...

          Well, I read the article and think about space ... smile American generals are always inventing something cosmic. smileFrom the realm of Star Wars ...
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 23 September 2020 10: 05
            +2
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            generals always come up with something cosmic

            Something like (not mine - Bulgakov) - cosmic scale and cosmic stupidity ..
      2. michael2000
        michael2000 23 September 2020 10: 01
        +1
        Yeah, they will, but only in space and not far away. The laws of physics have not yet been canceled.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 23 September 2020 10: 04
          +1
          Quote: michael2000
          The laws of physics have not yet been canceled.

          Yes, but you can dream!
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 September 2020 19: 44
      0
      Quote: mat-vey
      And will electricity for accumulators be transmitted by X-rays through etheric matter?

      Everything has already been invented before us - every machine will be connected to the network. Hideaki Anno won't let you lie. smile
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 23 September 2020 19: 47
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Everything has already been invented before us - every machine will be connected to the network. Hideaki Anno won't let you lie.

        Well, these are probably the sources that inspire the generals ..
  4. user1212
    user1212 23 September 2020 10: 02
    0
    Well, that's the complete dependence of the US Army on Chinese 18650s is included in the defense doctrine. wassat
  5. Cowbra
    Cowbra 23 September 2020 10: 15
    +2
    And this ganbaral even imagined how many scarce copper would be required for electric motors per one US army? And this one, without convolutions, did not creep into the inter-ear vacuum, the question - and who will charge this good? Will you put it on every NPP checkpoint? You definitely won't depend on logistics, yes ...
    1. swnvaleria
      swnvaleria 23 September 2020 10: 30
      +2
      the same question crept in, wait, don't step, we will charge the batteries, will they store electricity in barrels from solarium?
  6. rocket757
    rocket757 23 September 2020 10: 17
    +1
    In the United States, a program is presented to put into service army vehicles and armored vehicles equipped with electric motors.

    So yes, the drive can be made, complex or simpler .... BUT again and again, where to get a powerful, reliable, capacious source of energy.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 September 2020 10: 59
      +2
      Quote: rocket757
      So yes, the drive can be made, complex or simpler .... BUT again and again, where to get a powerful, reliable, capacious source of energy.

      It's a classic: "The nuclear reactor is conventionally not shown in the diagram ...smile
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 23 September 2020 11: 01
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        This is a classic: "A nuclear reactor is not conventionally shown in the diagram ..."

        vigorous NOT, it is not very safe, and for everyone, friends, strangers, indiscriminately!
    2. unhappy
      unhappy 23 September 2020 12: 58
      +2
      And so you want what
      The general will watch a Hollywood movie with starships, return to the base in the unit - and there is a dull gamna. It's a shame ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 23 September 2020 13: 01
        +2
        Quote: unhappy
        The general will watch a Hollywood movie

        Prescribe to the general "Back to the Future 3", a reactor on any organic matter and forward, to the stars ... on shoulder straps!
        1. unhappy
          unhappy 23 September 2020 13: 07
          +1
          There was a conversation about atomic batteries, and you are about refueling a reactor from a garbage can laughing
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 23 September 2020 13: 21
            0
            About the atomic battery even in the Soviet magazine they wrote "Science and Life" .... they wrote, wrote, and where is it! She flew into space on satellites, not otherwise.
  7. Mark kalendarov
    Mark kalendarov 23 September 2020 13: 29
    0
    I would say that everything will be solved by the assigned tasks and theaters of operations. There are opportunities.
    And to argue which is better ...
    This is a struggle between good and beautiful.
  8. HMR333
    HMR333 23 September 2020 14: 50
    +1
    He is illiterate ... What electric cars? When used in combat, they have specific disadvantages! And what power and consumption are needed, taking into account the weight of military equipment and operating conditions!
    1. Mikhail m
      Mikhail m 24 September 2020 20: 05
      0
      Quote: HMR333
      He is illiterate ...

      Quote: HMR333
      they have specific disadvantages!

      Who is illiterate?
  9. CARLSON
    CARLSON 23 September 2020 16: 20
    0
    This one drank more abruptly than "Zamvolts" will look like
  10. Prisoner
    Prisoner 23 September 2020 19: 27
    0
    Power cables will be worn to lay on the battlefield. winked
  11. bobba94
    bobba94 23 September 2020 21: 24
    0
    About a year and a half ago I read a serious article about armored vehicles and there was a section on the average lifetime of a tank in modern combat. An average tank lives seven minutes on attack and fifteen minutes on defense. And here they write about hundreds of kilometers and so on.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 September 2020 08: 36
      +1
      Quote: bobba94
      About a year and a half ago I read a serious article about armored vehicles and there was a section on the average lifetime of a tank in modern combat. An average tank lives seven minutes on attack and fifteen minutes on defense. And here they write about hundreds of kilometers and so on.

      That's right - the tank still has to get to this battlefield. And since teleportators have not yet been invented, there is only one way out: to a long distance - a combined march, to a near - on its own. On trawls in wartime on the road of the army rear, I would not count.
      What small resource The Great Patriotic War showed well - a tank does not live long in battle on average, but it marchs a lot before the battle:
      During the march, 100-150 km. in three mechanized corps, due to technical malfunctions, 270 tanks were repaired.
      In one of the Armies, up to 100 tanks were damaged by diesels; after the marches on the Stalingrad and Voronezh front, malfunctions in buildings of 25-30 tanks failed.
      © Head of BTU GABTU Spacecraft Engineer Colonel Afonin (yes, this is the same letter to Kotin dated November 10, 1942)
  12. AML
    AML 24 September 2020 19: 49
    0
    Quote: hrych
    The engine is started by the launcher, you can try it "crooked" wassat


    You can look at the Sun through a telescope twice. Once with the left eye, the other with the right. Dumb event.