Military Review

Marine helicopters Ka-52K "Katran" are ready for serial production

81

The press reported on the testing of the latest domestic Ka-52K Katran helicopters.


About this in an interview with the information service RIA News said the general designer of the NCV (National Center for Helicopter Building) "Mil and Kamov" Sergei Mikheev. According to him, the Ka-52K production technology has been fully mastered at a plant in the city of Arsenyev, Primorsky Territory.

Sergei Mikheev noted that by now the Ka-52K marine helicopters have passed the entire range of tests and are ready for serial production.

Sergey Mikheev:

There are no fatal remarks at the moment. I have no doubt that the created combat vehicle will go to the Navy.

To date, Katran helicopters are also involved in testing new Russian ships, including frigates of new projects, which provide for the possibility of receiving a helicopter. In particular, the boarding of each of the test ships is being practiced.

The Ka-52K is the naval version of the Ka-52, as well as the continuation of the line of naval helicopters, including the Ka-29 and Ka-31. Earlier it was announced that in 2017, "Katrans" were tested in the Syrian Arab Republic. Then they became part of the wing of the aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov".

The helicopter has an improved avionics, which allows it to provide navigation in the absence of landmarks, which is effective for performing tasks in the sea zone.
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 17 September 2020 06: 08
    11
    As they say, good luck ... If so, a beautiful car ...
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 17 September 2020 06: 33
      +5
      Quote: parusnik
      .Koli so. Beautiful car ...

      A.N. Tupolev: "Only beautiful airplanes can fly well"
  2. tlauicol
    tlauicol 17 September 2020 06: 11
    -9
    The series is good, of course, but where to base them? There are no carriers
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 17 September 2020 06: 40
      -4
      And on land they have no place and nowhere to apply? Enough already all sorts of crap. fool
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 17 September 2020 09: 25
        +6
        On the naval version, the wings and propellers are folded, to save space on the deck or in the hangars, this makes the structure heavier, it carries less weapons, and increases the cost. On a ship with a helipad, you can do with simple military turntables, with minimal alterations. For use on land, an expensive machine with inferior performance compared to its military counterpart.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 17 September 2020 09: 45
        +6
        Quote: Ros 56
        And on land they have no place and nowhere to apply?

        And why are helicopters adapted for basing on ships on land? Especially if you have conventional Ka-52s?
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 17 September 2020 10: 22
          0
          And as a reserve, because the UDCs are being built, so you don't have to wait until the turntables are built and the crews are trained.
    2. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 17 September 2020 08: 26
      0
      2 UDCs are being built in Crimea which can carry up to 20 helicopters !!!!
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 18 September 2020 04: 57
        +1
        Universal amphibious assault ships first of all need amphibious helicopters, but nobody deals with them either.
        1. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 08: 20
          -2
          drums are also needed and the landing party will come ashore under cover
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 18 September 2020 08: 34
            +1
            20 pieces each and no one knows when? And the fleet needed PLO helicopters yesterday
            1. Nastia makarova
              Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 09: 57
              -2
              ships are still under construction, so there are 5 years for the construction of helicopters
              and who argues that they are not needed? of course you need all at once, but this does not happen
    3. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 17 September 2020 09: 22
      0
      The series is good, of course, but where to base them? There are no carriers


      Like in the song.
      "On the roof of your house"
    4. PSih2097
      PSih2097 17 September 2020 11: 22
      -2
      Quote: Tlauicol
      There are no carriers

      Egypt has two mistralks, we will soon have two UDCs, plus two Gren-type large-landing ships, plus one more for Kuznetsov, although army can be used on Kuz ...
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 17 September 2020 11: 31
        +1
        Manilovism is, of course, wonderful, but already now several frigates and corvettes have been built, for which there is no new PLO helicopter, but it could have been created instead of this wonderful, but nafig, not needed machine in the fleet
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 17 September 2020 11: 38
          +2
          Quote: Tlauicol
          for which there is no new PLO helicopter

          there is a Ka-29, but for some reason on its base, no one is going to modify the PLO, there is a transport-combat and AWACS (Ka-31) ...
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 17 September 2020 11: 47
            +2
            So where is the new PLO helicopter? What are you telling me about here?
        2. bayard
          bayard 17 September 2020 13: 28
          +4
          You are absolutely right about the absence of a new PLO helicopter, you need one, just as a normal PLO aircraft with modern detection means is needed. But the Ka-52K is not at all useless, it is an attack helicopter to support amphibious assault forces, for the new UDC and BDK. Fortunately, there was a normal land helicopter as a base for the naval version. And with anti-submarine warriors, the main problem with hardware saturation is that there are neither normal submersible GASs, nor good buoys for them ... just as there is still no normal PLO aircraft to replace the Il-38.
          1. Alien From
            Alien From 20 September 2020 19: 55
            +1
            Here you are absolutely right !! Hardware saturation is our everything .........
    5. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 17 September 2020 11: 27
      0
      Quote: Tlauicol
      There are no carriers

      First of all, Egypt, on the Mistral, we supply them with both K-52 and K-52K. about 50 pcs per order. How many of them are K-52K I don't know, I won't lie
    6. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 01: 45
      -1
      Quote: Tlauicol
      where to base them?

      Some time ago there was an article about the Navy parade. There, the author lamented that there were already carrier ships, and, they say, that there were no turntables. Now, in an article about turntables, the commentator will lament the opposite - that there are turntables, but there are still no carriers.
      It would be more correct to know what to lament. In order not to get into an uncomfortable situation.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 18 September 2020 04: 21
        +1
        For new frigates, corvettes, there are no new PLO and AWACS helicopters. Instead, they saw helicopters unnecessary for the fleet, for which there are no ships
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
          Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 04: 39
          -1
          Absolutely trouble
  3. Victor_B
    Victor_B 17 September 2020 06: 19
    +4
    I like this dragonfly!
    Just a beautiful car!
    The eye pleases.
    1. Grits
      Grits 17 September 2020 14: 04
      +1
      Quote: Victor_B
      I like this dragonfly!
      Just a beautiful car!
      The eye pleases.

      Last year we often flew over the village (near Chernigovka, where they are based). This year, for some reason, it is not visible or audible. By the way, the sound of this helicopter immediately differs from the others from a distance.
  4. Doccor18
    Doccor18 17 September 2020 06: 26
    +6
    "Katran" can withstand ground, sea and air threats, having ATGM "Whirlwind", or 2 anti-ship missiles X-31AD, or 2 medium-range air-to-air missiles. However, this is an attack helicopter, its main base should be at UDC and BDK.
    I would really like to see a new version of the anti-submarine helicopter for new frigates. As well as a helicopter targeting anti-ship missiles and missiles.
    1. Mimoprohodil
      Mimoprohodil 17 September 2020 09: 56
      0
      Quote: Doccor18
      or 2 anti-ship missiles Kh-31AD
      It remains only to accelerate the helicopter well
      Aircraft speed range at launch (number M) 0,65-1,5
      1. bayard
        bayard 17 September 2020 13: 31
        +1
        Well, the person was wrong, about the "Uranus" X-35 wanted to say ...
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 14: 24
        0
        In this case, ship-type anti-ship missiles with a launch solid propellant are suspended on helicopters.
  5. aszzz888
    aszzz888 17 September 2020 06: 38
    +3
    Even the name "Katran" is consonant with this beautiful car. I hope the naval aviation will get a decent car.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 17 September 2020 09: 26
      +2
      Quack shark. Katran is a place for an underground game of cards.
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 17 September 2020 10: 05
        0

        Free wind (ALEXANDER)
        Today, 09: 26
        NEW

        0
        Quack shark. Katran is a place for an underground game of cards.

        I still believe

        Katran - Wikipediaru.wikipedia.org ›wiki› Katran
        Quatran, or common quatran, or common prickly shark, or spotted prickly shark, or short-finned prickly shark, or blunt ...
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 17 September 2020 10: 18
          0
          Damn it, I didn't even think that the name of the fish could be intolerant. wassat then the shark barking.
          1. aszzz888
            aszzz888 17 September 2020 12: 38
            0

            Free wind (ALEXANDER)
            Today, 10: 18

            0
            Damn it, I didn't even think that the name of the fish could be intolerant. wassat that time a barking shark.
            I agree. There are funny and sometimes incomprehensible names.
  6. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 17 September 2020 07: 04
    +3
    It will not fit, hangars not for it all need to be redone, the load is worse than that of the old ...
    In the same way they used to revile him, but now they have gone somewhere. Or they are still sleeping. In space, here at VO there is a team, on naval topics, its "critics", on armored vehicles, too, I learned almost all the same, and on aviation, everyone is familiar with the disadvantages. In general, I am waiting for comments like "they are not needed" and "it would be better if the pensioners were given money."
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 17 September 2020 08: 13
      -4
      Quote: g1washntwn
      In general, I am waiting for comments like "they are not needed" and "it would be better if the pensioners were given money."

      It has already begun. See above - "everything is gone, there are no carriers" laughing
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 17 September 2020 09: 04
      +4
      [quote = g1washntwn] In general, I am waiting for comments like "they are not needed" and "it would be better if they gave money to pensioners." [/ quote]
      waited ...
      [quote = Andrey from Chelyabinsk] "Katran" is needed by naval aviation, like a fifth wheel to a cart. In conditions when we cannot give each fleet at least a regiment of modern multifunctional fighters ... even not very modern, SU-30SM, spending money on a tool of third-rate importance is absurd [/ quote]

      your counterarguments [quote = g1washntwn] laughing
      1. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 17 September 2020 09: 19
        -4
        Quote: Silvestr
        your counterarguments

        Neither arguments nor logic will help. At the fair, the fool's task is to steal a bagel, from a sent Cossack - to spit in the tray, and then both shake their heads negatively. Let the hype and the negative, why deprive them of the illusion of "victory"?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 17 September 2020 09: 50
          +7
          Quote: g1washntwn
          Neither arguments nor logic will help. At the fair, the fool's task is to steal a bagel, from a sent Cossack - to spit in the tray, and then both shake their heads negatively.

          It is clear - there are no arguments.
          The Navy has practically no naval aviation left. The Navy does not have new anti-submarine helicopters.
          But the Navy now has an attack helicopter, which has nowhere to base - because no one will exchange an PLO helicopter for a drummer on CD, FR and corvettes. And on the shore, an attack helicopter with a folding mechanism for the blades and other sea gadgets is redundant - the serial Ka-52 is enough.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 11: 14
            +2
            Quote: Alexey RA
            with blade folding mechanism


            If sclerosis does not let me down, then the imported ones have long ago equipped army helicopters with a mechanism for folding the blades. And this is a sensible decision.
          2. bayard
            bayard 17 September 2020 13: 52
            +4
            Quote: Alexey RA
            But the Navy now has an attack helicopter, which has nowhere to base - because on the CD, FR and corvettes, no one will exchange an PLO helicopter for a drummer

            Yes, there is still no such helicopter in the army. They still need to be built, delivered to the troops / fleets, mastered there ... But their new carriers are already under construction - two new large landing ships from last year's bookmarks and two UDCs this year, so these Katrans will arrive on decks in due time.
            Another thing is that there are no new anti-submarine helicopters or PLO aircraft and are not expected ... for some reason ...
            Why
            And new corvettes are ordered / laid with limited anti-submarine capabilities. Instead of 20385 with PLUR in UKSK they order 20380 without them, with some "Packet-NK" torpedoes with a range of 20 km. If the problem is the price (8 billion rubles for the radar), then abandon the prohibitively expensive, but not working "Barrier" in favor of the more familiar and serial "Positive-M", but still lay the corvettes 20385 with UKSK and PLUR in them ... Well, it will not work for a small corvette to become an all-rounder with the capabilities of a missile cruiser for air defense, and the "Positive" with the "Redoubt" is enough for him.
            Why is so little attention paid to anti-submarine defense in the Navy?
            And such an exaggerated attention to air defense for small ships?
            Questions ...
      2. g1v2
        g1v2 17 September 2020 11: 03
        -1
        The naval aviation already has 21 su30 cm. Now they have ordered another regiment - 24 pieces. So far, about 50 units have been planned. Tch su 24 calmly change to su 30 cm. There is no problem here. And certainly fighters have nothing to do with katrans. The Katran is primarily needed to support the landing. PM its main purpose is to be based on udk and new bdk. And those and those are still under construction, so there is no sense in rushing with the construction of katrans. Well, they will also come in handy on Kuza, but that one is also being repaired. There is also a variant of their basing on the islands of the Kuril type. Yet a helipad is not a runway. It can even be placed on small islands. request
        The fleet's budget is not rubber, but there is enough money. Currently, 100 ships and vessels are being built or leased in the region at the same time. One apl of 14 units is under construction and for rent. Plus the modernization and construction of new aircraft and helicopters. The construction of 6-2 dozen katrans, spaced apart for 3 years, will certainly not particularly affect the budget. request
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 11: 21
          +4
          Quote: g1v2
          already have 21 su30 cm.

          As I understand it, 22 Su-30sm have been delivered, 6 vehicles have not yet been delivered under the old contract, and a new contract for 24 aircraft for the Navy. A total of 52 boards. And at least one regiment is needed for the fleet and one more squadron for Kamchatka.
          1. bayard
            bayard 17 September 2020 14: 04
            +3
            The problem of purchasing fighters for the fleet is not in money and desire, but in the availability of trained pilots - there are not enough of them in the Aerospace Forces, veterans with retirement are still being held back, they are asked to stay until new lieutenants arrive in time. Under Serdyukov, all flight schools were closed, the enrollments were stopped, and only in 2013 they resumed the enrollment of cadets ... So while the personnel decide everything in the pace of the purchase of aviation for the Navy ... And in the Aerospace Forces this is also a deterrent factor.
            And on the Pacific Fleet there will be few regiments, preferably a third on Sakhalin.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 14: 17
              +2
              Quote: bayard
              So while personnel decide everything in the pace of aviation purchases

              Hmm.
              Do you think in case of OBD they will fight separately?

              I certainly don't think so.
              but will they be VKS or belong to naval aviation

              Uh-huh, as a result, in 16-15 years a gorgeous situation emerged - naval fighters in the Far East have a 2-2.5 times less flight time in comparison with the Air Force.
              they still hold them, they ask to stay until the new lieutenants arrive in time.

              The flight crew needs to raise the "Flight allowance" and good.
              1. bayard
                bayard 17 September 2020 14: 47
                -1
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                Uh-huh, as a result, in 16-15 years a gorgeous situation emerged - naval fighters in the Far East have a 2-2.5 times less flight time in comparison with the Air Force.

                The naval authorities have always treated naval aviation on a leftover principle, and even more so in conditions of underfunding (90s - the beginning of the XNUMXs), therefore, they gladly abandoned their own aviation and wrote off aircraft that were still capable of operation.
                This is a peculiarity of thinking, they "just do not understand" ... plus negative selection in career growth since the 90s ... As a result, today's admirals (and generals) are lieutenants of the 90s ... or even zero .. . "Scale of values" ... different ...
                Therefore, it is better to still have naval aviation as part of the Aerospace Forces with operational subordination to the fleets ... there will be some difficulties in this, but the advantages (especially in our realities) are obvious.
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 15: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: bayard
                  Therefore, it is better to still have naval aviation as part of the Aerospace Forces with operational subordination to the fleets ... there will be some difficulties in this, but the advantages (especially in our realities) are obvious.


                  Exactly
          2. g1v2
            g1v2 17 September 2020 14: 10
            0
            In general, we still need fighters, but they will not be of the Aerospace Forces or belong to the naval aviation under the united district command, it does not matter. request For example, in the Crimea there are both fighters of the Aerospace Forces of the 38th regiment, and the naval aviation of the 43rd regiment. Do you think in case of OBD they will fight separately? request
  7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 07: 10
    10
    "Katran" is needed by naval aviation, like the fifth wheel - by a cart. In conditions when we cannot give each fleet at least a regiment of modern multifunctional fighters ... even not very modern, SU-30SM, spending money on a means of third-rate importance is absurd
    1. Earthshaker
      Earthshaker 17 September 2020 07: 39
      +2
      To begin with, the Ka-27 would be modernized. In an amicable way, you need to change it with something new. And Katran really appeared prematurely.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 08: 19
        +1
        Quote: Earthshaker
        To begin with, the Ka-27 would be modernized.

        Quite right, although for good reason a new helicopter is already needed
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 17 September 2020 11: 11
          -2
          At the last army in 2020, another su30 cm regiment was ordered for naval aviation. Gradually, all su24 will change. In any case, the fleets are subordinate to the district command, and in the case of the Northern Fleet, it is the district command, and they will act together with the Aerospace Forces. The problem of fighters is far-fetched and has nothing to do with katrans. request
          There is a problem with the new anti-submarine helicopter. The Ka 65 is under development, but at the snap of your fingers, it won't be created or tested in a week. For now, we'll have to be content with ka27. But given the timing of the construction of the udk, by the time they are completed, there will most likely be a65. Lamprey, like katrans, are primarily developed specifically for udk and new bdc.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 11: 25
            +8
            Quote: g1v2
            At the last army in 2020, another su30 cm regiment was ordered for naval aviation.

            First, not a regiment, but only 21 aircraft. The regiment is at least 24 aircraft.
            Secondly, give a link to the fact that the Su-30SM was ordered specifically for naval aviation, and not for the Aerospace Forces.
            Thirdly, even taking into account the delivery of this batch of Su-30SM to the Navy in full (which is not a fact, most likely a part will go to the Aerospace Forces), the total number of Su-30SM in the naval regiments will be less than two regiments. For 4 fleets, not counting the Caspian.
            Where to shout "urya?"
            Quote: g1v2
            In any case, the fleets are subordinate to the district command, and in the case of the Northern Fleet, it is the district command, and they will act together with the VKS

            That is, it is not in the interests of the fleet, since the tasks of the Aerospace Forces will become a priority. Thanks for the clarification.
            In addition, the ALL history of the Navy of ALL countries shows that ONLY Navy AVIATION can take an effective part in naval warfare. No matter how many times the Air Force undertakes this, the result has NEVER been not that good, but at least acceptable.
            Quote: g1v2
            The fighter problem is contrived

            Oh well. I hope you understand the whole fallacy of this statement?
            Quote: g1v2
            and has nothing to do with the katrans.

            Connected through the budget of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation - it is not bottomless and some programs are carried out at the expense of others
            Quote: g1v2
            But given the timing of the construction of the udk, by the time they are completed, there will most likely be a65.

            UDC is no place at all. We have all four fleets need to update the fleet of anti-submarine helicopters, but there is no new one, and the modernization of the Ka-27 is carried out by the Institute "NII Shatko NII Valko" 10 aircraft per year.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 12: 12
              +1
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              that in naval war ONLY AVIATION OF THE NAVY can take an effective part. No matter how many times the Air Force undertakes this, the result has NEVER been not that good, but at least acceptable.


              LUFTWAFFE и Argentine Air Force do not agree with you. And our admirals do not understand and are not interested in aviation. They do not intend to fight seriously, etc. etc. At least they say so themselves.
              Are you seriously going to fight? - from the appeal of one multi-star moral freak to the submariners of the Kamchatka squadron in 2005.
              Therefore, I fully agree with Lieutenant General Sokerin MA, it should be transferred to the Air Force, and then the MA units will be under operational control of the naval command. The scheme is quite adequate. And in our country it is completely tested. And it turns out that the naval MiG-31 fly at times less than the Air Force. In addition, the tactical manuals and instructions of the Air Force should be revised in terms of the readiness of the IFI and IS pilots to work over the sea and use anti-ship missiles, and of the aviation headquarters in terms of their readiness to organize air strikes on KOH, DESO, AUG.
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              and the modernization of the Ka-27 is carried out by the Institute "Shatko NII Valko" 10 vehicles per year.

              Rumor has it modernity sucks.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 12: 33
                +5
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                LUFTWAFFE and the Argentine Air Force disagree with you.

                Both of them agree 100%. The backlashes showed a very mediocre quality, with the exception of a pair of "wings" who did learn to fight over the sea. Super Etandars of Argentina, just showing what aviation can achieve, were part of the naval aviation
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                And it turns out that the naval MiG-31 fly at times less than the Air Force.

                This is true, but it is generally a matter of commanding our fleets. He is very sick, and the measure described by you cannot be solved. In fact, he would rather aggravate it.
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                Rumor has it modernity sucks.

                Everything is better than nothing
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 13: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  and the measure described by you cannot be solved.


                  From what? Can. (You understand theory is one thing, in practice the opposite is true). Sokerin thought this was the best option. I agree with him, seeing as we have it in reality.
                  I'll give you an example. The border guards were removed from the border districts. The FSB aviation was created. Air units have been transferred to operational control in the field. As a result, the misuse of aviation decreased. Plaque has grown. Education has improved.

                  Etandars of Argentina, just showing what aviation can achieve, were part of the naval aviation

                  Most of the losses were inflicted by the Air Force attack aircraft with bombs operating at the maximum distance.

                  In fact, he would rather aggravate it.

                  Well, for what reason?

                  Backlash showed very mediocre quality

                  Exactly? Of our naval aviation to them oh how far. Alas and ah. The same Ju-87s have fully demonstrated the ability to bomb tanks today, and tomorrow to successfully torment destroyers and cruisers in another sector.

                  You see, if we have to, for example, somewhere to resist the AUG to work over the sea, all the Air Force boards must be ready. We have the same north as a matter of fact. From memory there are naval 22 MiG-29K, 12-15 Su-24, 14-18 MiG-31, 10-12 Su-33 and 2 Su-30cm. So what? And that's all. Well, there is also, as a reserve, Besovets 159 of the Air Force IAP, where the Su-27Sm squadron and a couple of Su-35 squadrons.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 14: 26
                    +3
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    From what? Can. (You see, theory is one thing, in practice the opposite is true).

                    I introduced you to the practice :))))
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    Sokerin thought this was the best option.

                    Let's break down this "best option" in detail. Why is our naval aviation "underperforming"? Because those who command the fleet understand about submarines or surface ships, but in aviation they do not understand why they finance it on a leftover basis. And aviation from this is predictably bent.
                    How is this problem solved? The formation of such a management of the fleet that would know why aviation is needed and its needs. What are we doing? We are taking aircraft from the fleet and giving it to the Aerospace Forces.
                    Thus, the problem of survival of specific pilots and aircraft is solved. I agree,
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    Plaque has grown. Learning has improved.

                    But at the same time, being transferred to the Aerospace Forces, they gradually lose their maritime specifics, since for the Aerospace Forces, the task of naval aviation is exactly the same secondary as naval aviation is for the fleet. Aerospace Forces transform naval aviation into aerospace forces.
                    And then the Aerospace Forces, having no significant experience of naval warfare, will climb into this very war under the leadership of admirals who do not know the capabilities of this aviation and do not understand how to use it.
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    Most of the losses were inflicted by the Air Force attack aircraft with bombs operating at the maximum distance.

                    Which one is the limit? :))))) They went over the heads of the British :)))))
                    And so -
                    5 Maritime Super-Etandars destroyed Atlantic Conveyor and Sheffield
                    8 skyhawks of Argentine naval aviation destroyed the frigate Ardent
                    50 Air Force Skyhawks have sunk the Destroyer, the frigate and the landing ship, but this is not certain - I can not check now, maybe some of them are on the account of the "sea" Skyhawks.
                    30 Daggers did not sink a single British ship
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    Exactly? Our naval aviation is far from them.

                    Exactly. And our naval aviation in the Second World War, in essence, did not take place, with the skill of individual pilots and a fair amount of heroism, in terms of performance, it was the worst in the world among any developed countries.There are a number of objective reasons, but be that as it may, and only a measure skill of naval aviation she is not exactly
                    1. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 15: 43
                      +1
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Which one is the limit? :)

                      At the maximum distance from the airfield.

                      Why is our naval aviation "underperforming"? Because those who command the fleet understand about submarines or surface ships, but in aviation they do not understand why they finance it on a leftover basis. And aviation from this is predictably bent.

                      Quite right. Moreover, if MA receives new MFIs according to the plans of the General Staff, then, as it were in terms of implementing special naval tasks, we have the modern Il-38 and the obscene modern Ka-27

                      How is this problem solved? The formation of such a fleet leadership that would understand why aviation is needed and its needs.

                      How do you yourself assess the realism of this?

                      What are we doing? We are taking aircraft from the fleet and giving it to the Aerospace Forces.

                      The alternative is extinction. I will repeat the purchase of MFIs according to the plans of the General Staff. How ripe for the purchase of deck MFIs, this is a great mystery. But the fact is there are special naval aircraft for long-range naval reconnaissance, we do not have anti-submarine warfare. How it is planned to organize the search for enemy KUG and the issuance of the control center for submarines and NKs, this is a great secret
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 16: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        At the maximum distance from the airfield.

                        Yeah, ok
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        How do you yourself assess the realism of this?

                        Erzatz can do this even now, having allocated naval aviation "for a special position" with separate funding, which will not be reached by the playful hands of the admirals of the fleet, and the VKS too. In general, the situation needs to be changed, it will not change quickly, but if nothing is done, then those who know either submarines or NK will be in charge of the fleet forever.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 21: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    And our naval aviation in the Second World War, in fact, did not take place, with the skill of individual pilots and a fair amount of heroism, it, in terms of effectiveness, was the worst in the world among any developed countries.


                    At the same time, it nevertheless surpassed all other types of forces of the RKKF in efficiency.
                    I will remind you
                    - The submarines sank or disabled about 175-180 ships and vessels ..
                    - torpedo boats have sunk or disabled about 22-25 ships and vessels.
                    - coastal artillery - sank or disabled 12-13 ships and vessels.
                    - NK artillery - sank a tug and a couple of motorbots.

                    I cannot account for the mines. But as I recall, the successes are not great, the Germans themselves have created more problems in the same Baltic.
                    So now about aviation.
                    MTA (and bomber regiments on DB-3, A-20, Il-4) - sank at least 100 ships and vessels with bombs and torpedoes
                    Assault, bomber, reconnaissance and fighter - sank at least 300-350 ships, ships and boats.
                    (here it is necessary to give an explanation, there is simply no official figure of the success of our naval and army aviation. Morozov for some reason does not want to take on, stopping at torpedo bombers.)
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 08: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      At the same time, it nevertheless surpassed all other types of forces of the RKKF in efficiency.

                      Cyril, our fleet could not prove itself in WWII. Again, there were objective reasons for this. But nonetheless. They fought very weakly, although often heroically (the submariners of the Baltic - a separate honor and eternal memory!)
                      As for the statistics ... I doubt it more than, although your conclusion about the priority of naval aviation may be correct. Didn't understand this
                2. bayard
                  bayard 17 September 2020 14: 31
                  +2
                  The idea of ​​forming an MA as part of the Aerospace Forces is healthy for many reasons, and transferring its regiments to operational subordination to the Fleet, assigning representatives of the Aerospace Forces to the headquarters of the Fleets for combat interaction, conducting regularly scheduled exercises and training in interspecific combat interaction. In Primorye, I remember such attempts were made ... but ... Medvedev and Serdyukov came with reforms ...
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 08: 49
                    0
                    Quote: bayard
                    In Primorye, I remember such attempts were made ... but ... Medvedev and Serdyukov came with reforms ...

                    The problem is that in the described interaction, such a result, in general, is inevitable.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 18 September 2020 20: 09
                      -1
                      Andrey, this is really a very difficult question. Naval aviation has long since disappeared and at the click of a finger this will not appear. The experience of the 90s, when the naval authorities KILLED their aviation, is still remembered, and it is not unique.
                      ... For a very long time, back in the USSR, there was a considerable problem - the air defense needs its own aviation, or better, so that it was part of the Air Force ... And it seems that everything is much simpler - fighter aircraft exists to fight enemy aircraft ...
                      But ...
                      Air defense in the USSR, this is a separate branch of the military and the question of whether to have air defense of its own aircraft, or to use fighter aircraft of the Air Force for combat interaction ... was quite acute ... and led to the fact that it was either transferred to the subordination of the air defense, or returned to the Air Force ...
                      Repeatedly .
                      And it just so happened that I started my officer service at the command post of the air defense formation at the moment when the air defense fighter aviation was transferred to the subordination of the air defense forces ...
                      Everything seemed to be good ...
                      An aviation department appeared at the headquarters of the formation ...
                      An aviation officer on duty took over at the command post ...
                      The formation has its own regiment on the MiG-25 ...
                      And the combat work went quite well ... stable ...
                      But a couple of years later the first incident happened.
                      ... An unscheduled interception flight ...
                      And ...
                      A young starley who did not expect such a dirty trick on the BATTLE DESK !!!
                      During takeoff, FORGOT to turn on ... GENERATORS ... and there are only three of them on the MiG-25.
                      And ... flew.
                      It is a miracle that he did not fly abroad, because there was no connection with him, but the radio station was still working on reception (on a battery), the navigator managed to deploy him ...
                      But this would-be interceptor did not reach the airfield and ... he had to eject ... and the plane crashed.
                      ... The investigation went on for over a year ... the pilot was written off ...
                      ... But after another half a year, the entire regiment took part in the planned exercises with a trip to the training ground (the pilots flew over) ... and it happened ... THE UNEXPECTED!
                      Perhaps for the first time ever such an exercise has been conducted, the assessments have been distributed ... abnormally.
                      Usually:
                      - for pilots - EXCELLENT.
                      - ZRVshnikov - good.
                      - RTV - ... they don't punish ...
                      But this time it turned out the other way around:
                      RTV - EXCELLENT
                      ZRV - demonstrated stability - good.
                      - pilots - ... there was nothing to set satisfactorily ...
                      ... and I had to agree that "the weather was not flying" and it was necessary to "shoot" ...
                      They did shoot at the top three ... after long ... persuasion.

                      So what am I for ...
                      In the aviation of the Navy, not just such a thing can happen ..., but - the same situation, when, being cut off from the normal control, leadership and planning system ... it will simply turn into ... it is difficult for me to find words.
                      My friend served in Primorye, participated in the Military Council of the Pacific Fleet for combat interaction.
                      And those exercises that were conducted there on Interspecies Combat Interaction were held with his participation ...
                      So, the assessment of the quality of the Pacific Fleet's combat control ... is not high ... at all.
                      They just DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT!
                      This should be SPECIALLY taught.
                      And they will ruin EVERYTHING.
                      Therefore, for the good of the cause, let the Naval Aviation deal with the VKS.
                      It's not for nothing that I gave an example from the past in air defense ...
                      Do you know how it ended?
                      The air defense and air forces were united into a single branch of the military.
                      ... And then the "cosmonauts" were pulled up to them ...
                      The men laughed for a long time then ...
                      But there is still benefit to the cause!
                      Flight training is BACK to normal.
                      And even now, when the VKS is commanded by a former tanker ... flight training, the raid, etc., is in order.
                      Professionals are just doing business.
                      And sailors are MUCH farther from aviation than air defense.
                      Just take our word for it.
                      Moreover, the Fleets are now (except for the Northern Fleet) subordinate to the districts ... That is, to the INFANTRY.
                      And WHAT can be expected from the revived naval aviation in conditions when the sailors in it do not understand anything ... and at the same time they themselves are subordinated to ... INFANTRY ...
                      So in the subordination of the aviation of the fleets of the Aerospace Forces, and transferring it to operational subordination to the fleets in the mode of combat interaction, it is much more promising than giving everything at the mercy of ... "Rybnadzor" - as my good friend calls our Navy.

                      Over time, when Naval Aviation gets on the wing, grows overgrown with "meat" and grows OWN commanders, everything can be considered again.
            2. Bez 310
              Bez 310 17 September 2020 14: 56
              0
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              I agree with Lieutenant General Sokerin MA, should be transferred to the Air Force, and then the MA units will be under operational control of the naval command

              And when did Sokerin start to think so?
              Then, when the collapse of the country began, the Fleet completely
              ceased to maintain its Naval Aviation, and it
              began to die quietly.
              MA cannot be transferred to "green", it will lose its
              preparation for flights over the sea. Consider all that
              we now see on TV - the flight of a pair of planes
              Videoconferencing over the sea, this is all nonsense compared to flights
              MA over the sea regiments and divisions.
              The same Sokerin talked about how when Marine
              aviation was in its prime, there was a joint flight
              with the Long-Range Aviation Regiment, so the "long-range"
              the point of the route over the sea did not go, I motivate "small
              the remaining fuel. "And the regiment of" sailors "flew to
              along the entire route on the same type of aircraft.
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 17 September 2020 15: 11
              0
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              LUFTWAFFE and the Argentine Air Force disagree with you.

              But Royal Navy in Crete agrees - with the absolute air supremacy of the Luft, the fleet has completed the task. smile
              As for the Argentine Air Force ... with normal planning, much more could have been achieved.
          2. g1v2
            g1v2 17 September 2020 13: 58
            -2
            This has been mentioned in several sources. Search honestly too lazy. Do you want - take my word, do not want - look. For example, a statement was written about this and was given in the BMPD blog.
            You can shout "Urya" anywhere. I don’t forbid. request But it's nice that you are interested in my opinion on this matter. wink
            The fleet is just a tool, nothing more. In general, the history of many countries and, first of all, our Great Patriotic War shows that it was precisely the isolation of the fleet that prevented it from effectively interacting with ground units and other branches of the armed forces. The naval ones were busy with their highly specialized tasks, and the land command did not take the fleet into account in their operations. The result is always inconsistency, leading to things like a forced breakout from Tallinn to Kronstadt. The fleet is not a thing in itself, but one facet of the armed forces. We will see how effective the interaction will be. In any case, it depends on the development of coordination. By the way, this does not only apply to the fleet. Yesterday there was an article on the Georgian air defense and I cited information that out of 6 aircraft we lost in the war with Gabunistan, 4 were lost from friendly fire. The reason is precisely the inconsistency between land and air.
            By the way, the Aerospace Forces regularly conduct training in actions on naval TVDs, so I repeat - I don't see a problem here and I think it's far-fetched. request By the way, the su30cm VKS even conducted exercises in Syria to attack naval targets a couple of years ago. And these were precisely the fighters of the Aerospace Forces.request
            Naturally, the budget is not rubber, but the contract for katrans will obviously not be huge and will not create any special deviations. I repeat, we have 14 of them under construction and commissioning, and another contract for 2 Boreas is expected. A contract for 20-30 katrans is comparable to a contract for one app. request
            The UDC will carry a mixed group of katrans and ka65 in transport-combat and possibly anti-submarine modifications.
            Well, a new ASW is being created. From waving his arms and shouting "Mom, we are all going to die", he definitely will not appear faster. request Like there were pictures of iron for the head helicopter at the plant. How much this corresponds to the truth - xs. So far, it remains to be content with ka27. Considering that 2038x corvettes are not delivered so quickly, and ka27s are needed primarily for them, 10 cars a year is not so little. How many caps do we have - 27-60 pieces? It seems like 65 of them have already been modernized. 20 pieces per year - work for 10-4 years. request
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 17 September 2020 15: 41
              +1
              Quote: g1v2
              In general, the history of many countries and, first of all, our Great Patriotic War shows that it was precisely the isolation of the fleet that prevented it from effectively interacting with ground units and other branches of the armed forces. The naval forces were engaged in their highly specialized tasks, and the land command did not take the fleet into account in their operations. The result is always inconsistency, leading to things like a forced breakout from Tallinn to Kronstadt.

              What isolation of the fleet are you talking about?
              27.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX KBF was subordinated in operational terms to the Military Council of the Northern Front.
              14.07.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX KBF switched into direct subordination to the commander-in-chief of the North-Western direction (SZN). Moreover, the chief of the General Staff of the Navy, Admiral I.S. Isakov, was appointed deputy commander-in-chief of the SZN troops for the naval unit, and a naval group subordinate to him was created at the SZN headquarters.
              The closure of the southern route Tallinn-Kronstadt is an order of the commander-in-chief of the SZN. And it was the army men who held out with the evacuation of Tallinn to the last, allowing it only on August 26.08.1941, XNUMX.

              This is what happens to the fleet even when it is directly subordinate to the ground.
          3. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 14: 22
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Secondly, give a link to the fact that the Su-30SM was ordered specifically for naval aviation, and not for the Aerospace Forces.


            At the Army-2020 forum in Kubinka, contracts and additions to previously concluded contracts with the Ministry of Defense for the supply of military equipment in the amount of 1,16 trillion rubles were signed, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko said. According to "Vedomosti", among them contracts for 30 Su-35S fighters, 24 Su-34 bombers, 25 Yak-130 and 20 DA-42T training aircraft, 14 Il-76MD-90A military transport aircraft and two Il-112V for the Aerospace Forces and 21 Su-30SM fighters for naval aviation.

            Plus if I'm right !? understood not delivered yet 6 SU-30CM under previously concluded contracts for the Navy ...
    2. Beregovic_1
      Beregovic_1 17 September 2020 08: 26
      +3
      The Northern Fleet was modernized. The Ka-27M is called. I talked to the helicopter pilot: he praises him. He says some fashionable radar is installed .... I don't remember the details (and I didn't understand), I remember that he praised the radar
    3. PSih2097
      PSih2097 17 September 2020 11: 34
      0
      Quote: Earthshaker
      To begin with, the Ka-27 would be modernized. In an amicable way, you need to change it with something new.

      why, there is a Ka-29, but everything is quiet ...
      1. Earthshaker
        Earthshaker 17 September 2020 11: 59
        +1
        Ka-29 transport-combat, a kind of flying armored personnel carrier. And the Ka-27 is an anti-submarine or search and rescue helicopter (submarine and substation, respectively). They have different, non-overlapping tasks, they cannot replace each other.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 17 September 2020 13: 00
          0
          Quote: Earthshaker
          Ka-29 transport-combat, a kind of flying armored personnel carrier. And the Ka-27 is an anti-submarine or search and rescue helicopter (submarine and substation, respectively). They have different, non-overlapping tasks, they cannot replace each other.

          but on its basis it is possible to make a submarine / submarine, especially since this is a further development of the Ka-27 with slightly increased dimensions and booking ...
          1. bayard
            bayard 17 September 2020 14: 26
            +3
            And why does the anti-submarine man need extra dimensions and booking? If it comes to that, then reincarnate the production of the updated Ka-27 with new avionics, engines, weapons. We have a plug with the quality of submersible GAS and anti-submarine buoys, something urgently needs to be done about this.
  8. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 08: 36
    +3
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    In conditions when we cannot give each fleet at least a regiment of modern multifunctional fighters ... even not very modern, SU-30SM, spending money on a means of third-rate importance is absurd


    We cannot but do not want to. Alas.
  • strannik1985
    strannik1985 17 September 2020 07: 21
    +5
    A clean drummer is needed at the UDC to support the landing. The construction of Project 23900 has just started, approximately 16 (8 per ship) Ka-52K are needed. The task is far from the first priority.
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 17 September 2020 07: 38
    +4
    The fleet needs new anti-submarine
    helicopters, and not these "drummers" ...
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 17 September 2020 08: 40
      -2
      Perhaps there will be modifications. A whole line of helicopters for various purposes was created on the basis of the Ka-27.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 17 September 2020 09: 37
        0
        Quote: Piramidon
        Perhaps there will be modifications

        I doubt it ...
        This is a helicopter - "niachem", a miscarriage of "Mistrals",
        now they will come up with where to attach it.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 11: 11
      +2
      Quote: Bez 310
      The fleet needs new anti-submarine
      helicopters, and not these "drummers" ...


      Quite right. And what is needed is a multi-purpose vehicle, as I understand it, and, moreover, preferably in the dimension of Black Hawk.

      This is a helicopter - "niachem", a miscarriage of "Mistrals",
      now they will come up with where to attach it.

      I think so too.
  • Mimino
    Mimino 17 September 2020 07: 38
    0
    It is high time to change old people to new ones.
  • The comment was deleted.