Military Review

The history of the creation of one little-known product

114

Epigraph to this stories could serve as an ironic comment found on the net: "In what year did you begin to make such happiness?" The review referred to the product, which is known in narrow circles under the name "Solar portable battery BSP-1". Product specifications can be found on this forum, however, the author erroneously indicated there that "the charge current is about 95 mA when the voltage changes from 10 to 13,8 V". This is the current for charging sealed storage batteries 10NKGTs-1d. The maximum charging current was 2 A for the product 10NKP-6c Belt, although in certain situations the current could be 10-15% more.


We'll have to start from afar to understand why this product was created and what it was intended for, why its general customer was the GRU General Staff, and why strict requirements were set for the product according to the highest group 1.14 of Soviet GOSTs.

In the 60s and 70s of the last century, various revolutionary uprisings constantly took place around the world, as well as a series of coups d'etat, which greatly complicated the work of Soviet diplomatic missions abroad, especially in Africa, Asia and Latin America. An example of such events is the military coup in Chile or the capture of the US embassy in Iran in 1979. This makes it clear how unstable the situation was in some regions.

Usually, such coups began with a disconnection from the electricity and communication systems of our foreign missions, after which the embassy short-wave radio station with a capacity of up to 0,4 kW stopped its work and communication with the Center was lost. If there was an emergency gasoline electric generator, then the fuel reserves were usually not enough for several days, because there were strict restrictions on the storage of fuel and lubricants in the embassy building. For example, in Iran, at the American embassy, ​​all fuel supplies were destroyed almost immediately, although they were stored in a buried tank, but the attackers knew where it was located and quickly spoiled the fuel with the help of "chemicals" (rumored to be almost washing powder). In such situations, our embassy's radio operator-encryptor did not have any opportunity to contact the Center at the main HF radio station, which is why a low-power correspondent radio station of the R-353 type ("Lun", "Proton" or others) was used as a reserve, which made it possible to organize communication on routes up to 4 thousand km or more under favorable conditions.


Photo source: military.trcvr.ru

But for their power supply, a battery and a generator or a manual charger, which was used in special forces units (such as PZU-5m), were needed. For ambassadorial conditions, this was very difficult, especially given the fact that, as a rule, there is only one radio operator, and information about what was happening was immediately demanded by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the KGB and the GRU General Staff at the same time, which is why the load increased sharply, the radio operator physically did not have time to charge the battery. Due to the fact that at that time the ambassadorial radio operator-cipher officer was an officer of the special radio communications service of the GRU General Staff or the special radio communications service of the KGB of the USSR, each department solved this problem in its own way, at the level of its capabilities. I will focus on the BSP-1 product, the general customer of which was the Ministry of Defense.

Based on the current situation, the leadership of the GRU General Staff set the task for the operational and technical management to conduct R&D on the creation of portable power sources for such situations. Specifically, this issue began to be dealt with by the department under the leadership of Ph.D. Colonel PT Evseenkov. Two low-budget R&D projects began almost simultaneously, in one case they used the principle of converting solar energy into electrical energy, and in the other they used semiconductor thermoelectric converters to obtain the required charging current. The development of a solar battery began to be carried out by the Krasnodar branch of the All-Union Research Institute of Current Sources, which specialized in this topic and for many years produced solar panels for our satellites for various purposes, had its own scientific base and factory production, which made it possible to organize serial production of products. This association was headed by Yu. V. Skokov, a major specialist in this field, who later headed not only the All-Russian Research Institute of Current Sources in Moscow (NPO Kvant), but also became the head of the Ministry of Electrotechnical Industry.

R&D work was completed on time, and after state tests, it was decided to accept this product for supplying reconnaissance units, for which to organize serial production of BSP-1 at the Saturn plant in Krasnodar in 1986.

Even at the stage of factory tests, specialists from the 1th TsNII MO showed interest in BSP-16, who also needed such batteries, but with a large charging current, and for this, the power supply was modernized, which allows connecting batteries in parallel and receiving a total current of about 4 amperes. This made it possible to recharge even car batteries, not to mention the power supply of some signal troops.

The operational use of the BSP-1 was originally intended only as a charger for Soviet missions abroad in critical situations, but due to the war in Afghanistan, the first serial deliveries began to the 40th Army, since the problem of energy supply there was very acutely. The need for a solar battery was not only in the special forces brigade, but also in the 254th radio and radio-technical reconnaissance regiment, where individual posts were thrown out to the mountain tops, and they sorely lacked power sources for round-the-clock radio reconnaissance. It was often necessary to use helicopters to deliver replaceable batteries to them, which not only unmasked the radio reconnaissance officers, but was also costly and unsafe. The regiment, which received BSP-1 batteries, managed to partially solve the problem of supplying power to remote posts, and this was a great help for those who provided them with everything necessary for continuous operation. Already in the GSVG, where the 254th ortp OSNAZ was brought out, I saw in this regiment damaged BSP-1 with through holes from bullets, but working properly, with a slight decrease in the charging current.

If we evaluate the BSP-1 product from the point of view of technical solutions, then we must admit that for those who developed and provided our space with solar panels, solving the problem of creating a small-sized power source seemed, I think, not such an insoluble problem. True, stringent requirements for weight, size, temperature range and specific characteristics led to the fact that the BSP-1 battery turned out to be foldable and, perhaps, not quite small-sized when deployed, but the development team coped with the task completely.


If we compare the BSP-1 product with foreign analogues of that time, then everything that was produced in the USA, Japan, France and Israel for military purposes was inferior in terms of tactical, technical and specific characteristics of our development, and their reliability lagged far behind reliability of our product. This is not surprising, because at that time we were not only the leaders in space research, but everything related to space was the most advanced in our country, which is why the silicon elements in BSP-1 were of the same quality as on ours. satellites. This, of course, affected the price of the entire product, but the general customer considered it acceptable, because in crisis situations, not only the fate of the embassy staff could depend on the BSP-1 battery, but also future relations with those leaders who came to power in this or that country after the coups.

As for the operational use of the BSP-1 product, several structures of the USSR Armed Forces have shown interest in the solar battery. In addition to the signal troops, they were used in the Strategic Missile Forces and in other structures. Ordering structures of the KGB of the USSR also paid for the delivery of BSP-1 products, and those who served in the border troops encountered them at remote points, as some border guards write about on the network. I don't know how things are now in this segment of small-scale power generation of the armed forces, but I think that such equipment should always be kept in stock. The events in Syria and the deaths of some of our servicemen from the MTR shows that the issue of providing autonomous power supply and means of charging batteries for our reconnaissance groups and agents will remain relevant for a long time, which means that this issue must be dealt with seriously.

And in conclusion, I would like to note that when our leaders mention the USSR and "galoshes", which supposedly could only be produced there, it makes me laugh from their "enlightenment", because they have no idea what the country's industry could produce in that time. This is evidenced by the history of the creation of a little-known product BSP-1, which was the best in the world not only at the time of creation, but also for many years after the serial production began.
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  1. Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 9 September 2020 12: 20
    33
    when our leaders mention the USSR and "galoshes", which supposedly could only be produced there, it makes me laugh from their "enlightenment", because they have no idea what the country's industry could produce at that time.

    And the mobile phone? The first mobile phone was invented by L.I. Kupriyanovich in 1957 and was tested in 1958. Thus, the mobile phone was officially invented and tested in the USSR 15 years earlier than in the USA.
    And the microwave? On June 13, 1941, four years before the discovery of the American, the newspaper Trud informed its readers about a useful invention by Soviet scientists ... a microwave oven for defrosting and heating food.
    And the Internet? The idea of ​​creating a prototype of the Internet was first proposed to the Soviet government in 1959 by Colonel Anatoly Kitov. Following Anatoly Kitov, Academician Viktor Glushkov became interested in the idea of ​​creating a prototype of the Internet. Taking into account the centralized system of governing the country, the scientist in 1961 proposed to create a nationwide automated system for recording and processing information, but despite all the advantages of introducing a computer network that controls the state, the government of the USSR did not dare to take this step. In vain.
    Almost a decade later, in 1969, the United States launched the ARPANET system, which unites the computers of the US Department of Defense into a single network, repeating the work of Anatoly Kitov and the ideas of Viktor Glushkov.
    And the computer? In 1968, Arseny Anatolyevich Gorokhov patented a personal computer in the USSR, by a whole eight years ahead of Steve Jobs, the founder of Apple.
    Good "galoshes" ..!
    1. An64
      An64 9 September 2020 12: 29
      +2
      Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
      And the computer? In 1968, Arseny Anatolyevich Gorokhov patented a personal computer in the USSR, by a whole eight years ahead of Steve Jobs, the founder of Apple.
      Good "galoshes" ..!

      It's clear that right now people are striving to buy themselves a personal "pea", and not a box with a bitten apple on the lid ...
      In general, following the old anecdote, the X-ray was invented here. After all, even Ivan the Terrible threatened the boyars: "I can see you, bl ... th, right through and through"!
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 9 September 2020 14: 33
        0
        Quote: An64
        It's clear that right now people are striving to buy themselves a personal "pea", and not a box with a bitten apple on the lid ...

        If you follow your thought, then already Russian women should not give birth from Russian men, not a camilfo, there is no label ...
        1. An64
          An64 9 September 2020 14: 54
          +8
          If you follow your thoughts ...

          Look at yourself and around you - clothes, watches, telephone, TV, car, household appliances, Internet - ours? An Indian hut ... There is nothing of ours ... Well, at least the weapon is ours, although the electronics inside I doubt that it is assembled from our microcircuits ...
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 9 September 2020 15: 02
            +1
            Quote: An64
            Indian hut ... Nothing of ours ...
            Why not? Because some leaders said that nothing should be done in Russia, because foreign ones are better. And they all lost it, to the screams of the enthusiastic audience. And now, in general, they began to say that the Russians cannot invent, everything is tyryat in the west.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 9 September 2020 15: 12
            +3
            Quote: An64
            Look at yourself and around you - clothes, watches, telephone, TV, car, household appliances, Internet - ours?

            You don't have to do everything yourself ...
            In fact, the problem is old.
            As there in "Cheburashka", "Vegetables, fruits, other products, Pumpkin and rutabaga, imported cranberries."
            The "command economy" has its drawbacks. And therefore, any Soviet citizen preferred imported goods.

            But the really competitive commodities of the USSR were oil and cotton. Not requiring credit sales, sales at discount prices and other "obstetric aid"

            Thanks to Khrushchev
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 9 September 2020 13: 45
      +7
      And the computer? In 1968, Arseny Anatolyevich Gorokhov patented a personal computer in the USSR, by a whole eight years ahead of Steve Jobs, the founder of Apple.
      Yes Yes! The USSR is the homeland of elephants.
      Arseny Anatolyevich Gorokhov did not patent any personal computer. He patented
      "A device for specifying a program for reproducing the contour of a part", that is, a plotter. The patent can be found at the link https://www1.fips.ru/fips_servl/fips_servlet?DB=RUPAT&rn=9056&DocNumber=383005&TypeFile=html.
      By the way, the application was filed in 1970. Read on and if you have any idea of ​​what a personal computer is, you will understand that no peas have overtaken anyone.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 9 September 2020 14: 14
        +6
        You can minus as much as you like. Minus clearly something can argue? Or does clinical turbopatriotism not allow?
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 9 September 2020 14: 42
          0
          Quote: Undecim
          Minus clearly something can argue?

          Mr.-comrade-master .... Those who have a computer will see there only drawings in the form of dots that do not carry any information. But the paper originals in the OmSU museum show everything. And remember, patent and copyright are two different things.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 9 September 2020 15: 37
            +8
            You would, for a start, have a look, sir. Then write where you see the PC there.
            1. Timeout
              Timeout 9 September 2020 15: 40
              0
              So you tried to read? Doesn't that sound like a description of a PC? First, read the material you are trying to refute.
              1. Brylevsky
                Brylevsky 9 September 2020 17: 48
                10
                So you tried to read? Doesn't that sound like a description of a PC?

                hi
                To be honest, not really. Rather, on a highly specialized computer ... Because the PC decides wide range of tasks. From engineering calculations to children's games. And this device, strictly limited by its purpose, does not pull on a personal feed computer, sorry.
                1. Timeout
                  Timeout 9 September 2020 18: 04
                  -1
                  Quote: Brylevsky
                  Because the PC solves a wide range of tasks.

                  Dear, Doom has been launched on an e-pregnancy test, is this also a PC? After all, it solves many problems, calculates ovulation, measures temperature, determines pregnancy and you can play Doom.
                  1. Brylevsky
                    Brylevsky 9 September 2020 18: 28
                    +9
                    Dear, Doom has been launched on an e-pregnancy test, is this also a PC?

                    Read carefully the article: https://w4bsit2020-dns.com/09/07/375266/XNUMX/
                    The screen of this device was used to display the graphics of the game, the program itself was executed on another device. What are you trying to pull by the ears? The plotter is not a PC, do not engage in casuistry.
                    1. Timeout
                      Timeout 9 September 2020 18: 40
                      -2
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      The screen of this device was used to display the graphics of the game, the program itself was executed on another device

                      Not really? Here's a proof, except for the external USB controller there is nothing!
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      What are you trying to pull by the ears?

                      Another connoisseur? Study the material.
                      1. Brylevsky
                        Brylevsky 9 September 2020 18: 48
                        12
                        External microcontroller! Not the one used in the electronic test itself! Obviously, because the microcontroller used in the test itself will not run the game! From the "breadboard" wires go to the display ...
                        I tell you again:
                        The plotter is not a PC, do not engage in casuistry.
                      2. Timeout
                        Timeout 9 September 2020 18: 55
                        -2
                        Quote: Brylevsky
                        From the "breadboard" wires go to the display ...

                        Study the materiel)). Five wires for connecting the Oled display ... You are my friend, the original.
                        Quote: Brylevsky
                        I tell you again:

                        Don't repeat yourself! Learn the basics of electronics. To at least distinguish a USB controller from a regular arduino or PI
                      3. Brylevsky
                        Brylevsky 9 September 2020 19: 03
                        +8
                        Don't stray from the topic of the conversation. The discussion is not about a pregnancy test, but about this:
                        So you tried to read? Doesn't that sound like a description of a PC? First, read the material you are trying to refute.

                        It not a PC.
                      4. Timeout
                        Timeout 9 September 2020 19: 07
                        -2
                        Quote: Brylevsky
                        This is not a PC.
                        Personal computer, PC - a computer intended for operation by one user, that is, for personal use.
                    2. Brylevsky
                      Brylevsky 9 September 2020 19: 42
                      +9
                      Study the materiel)). Five wires for connecting the Oled display ... You are my friend, the original.

                      Actually there are four of them ... but it's close to five lol Here is a four-wire circuit:

                      6-wire circuit:

                      I am not strong in microelectronics - alas, not my profile. But these circuits tell me that an OLED display can be connected with either four or six wires. Presumably, depending on the version of the display and the control controller ...
                      Don't repeat yourself!

                      Sorry, but you are forcing me to do this. A plotter is not a personal computer. The rest of the controversy around this thesis is nothing more than your attempt to pull me out to play on your "field" according to your "rules".
                    3. Timeout
                      Timeout 9 September 2020 20: 12
                      -1
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      that the OLED display can be connected with either four or six wires.

                      Dear, don't make me brains! In a technique similar to this test, the display controller is built into the microcontroller chip, which means that it will simply not work to connect it physically via the i2p bus, because the control data goes directly to the display. Secondly, find the arduino or uno inscription on the board.
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      A plotter is not a personal computer.
                      Is it a dummy or a level of intelligence? No, I get it. You have everything "because - gladiolus". Remember, it is not the PC that solves a wide range of problems, but the PC using software. For the PC 40 years ago and now things are completely different, although only related by architecture. Calm down, "academician". In a simple mobile phone (not a smartphone), there is now a processor 3-4 times more powerful than the Intel 386 on which they drove in Doom 25 years ago.
                    4. Brylevsky
                      Brylevsky 9 September 2020 20: 33
                      +6
                      For the PC 40 years ago and now things are completely different, although only related by architecture.

                      40 years ago there was no "PC" yet. There were computers. In research institutes and other organizations like them. Do you understand the difference, "academician"? And if you understand, then why the hell are you introducing confusion to your own:
                      So you tried to read? Doesn't that sound like a description of a PC? First, read the material you are trying to refute.
                      ?!
                      Yes, I may not know something in microelectronics! It's forgivable to me, I'm not a radio engineer! But that's when they start to me:
                      After all, it solves many problems, calculates ovulation, measures temperature, determines pregnancy and you can play Doom.
                      , I cannot but react to it. No need to joke! And to engage in casuistry. I hope you understand the meaning of this word!
                    5. Timeout
                      Timeout 9 September 2020 20: 55
                      -4
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      40 years ago there was no "PC" yet.

                      Stunned .... Dear, the first serial PC began to be produced in 1984, that is, from a historical point of view, 40 years ago. Next, you are our stubborn friend, we are talking about 1968. In those years, there really was no concept of a PC, and computers had a completely different circuitry. And Gorokhov proposed the circuitry of a modern PC.
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      It's forgivable to me, I'm not a radio engineer!

                      So what the hell, you climb there that you don't understand! A common truth, ignorance of the laws, does not absolve from responsibility.
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      I can't help but react to it

                      So before you react, learn the PC concept! And then bother with your reasons.
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      No need to joke! And to engage in casuistry. I hope you understand the meaning of this word!

                      Dear, if I start joking at someone on VO, it ends sadly for them. And you are engaged in casuistry, trying to prove something that does not exist. And while not having the appropriate knowledge.
                    6. Brylevsky
                      Brylevsky 9 September 2020 21: 01
                      +8
                      Dear, if I start joking at someone on VO, it ends sadly for them.

                      Well ... it's just because you haven't run into someone who stops you. The larger the "closet", the louder it falls ...
    3. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 9 September 2020 18: 32
      +6
      After all, it solves many problems, calculates ovulation, measures temperature, determines pregnancy and you can play Doom.

      Is the microcontroller a computer in your opinion? A simple animation and a script that polls the sensors can be written for the "Arduino" too, but this will not make it a computer.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 9 September 2020 19: 02
        -4
        Quote: Brylevsky
        you can also write for "Arduino"

        It is possible, on all AVR platforms, even the Chinese write Arduino))
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 9 September 2020 19: 05
          +3
          Well, still:
          Is the microcontroller a computer in your opinion?
          ?
        2. Timeout
          Timeout 9 September 2020 20: 37
          -1
          Do you know? The Atmega microcontroller, which is on the Uno in terms of power, is not inferior to the same i286., And the craftsmen have already emulated the work of DOS more than once. So a microcomputer. And you yourself drove into a semantic TRAP. Computers are not installed anywhere now, in cars, toasters, etc., and so on.
        3. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 9 September 2020 20: 47
          +7
          So a microcomputer.

          Not. This is a microcontroller. Unlike a computer, a microcontroller does not multitask. It can only emulate multitasking ...
          And you yourself drove into a semantic TRAP.

          Not. Unlike a computer, a microcontroller does not have Operating System, even the simplest DOS. For him, "setup" and "loop", and everything in between ...
          Computers are not installed anywhere now, in cars, toasters, etc., and so on.

          Not. Microcontrollers install, yes. Microcomputers are not. If the problem is solved by a microcontroller, a microcomputer will never be installed in the device, not even a cheap Rasberry Pi ...
          I don’t know enough about microelectronics to get caught up in the “tops” that you’re trying to “feed” me here. hi
        4. Timeout
          Timeout 9 September 2020 21: 21
          -1
          Quote: Brylevsky
          Not. This is a microcontroller. Unlike a computer, a microcontroller does not multitask.

          Dear, multitasking on a PC appeared with the release of Windows 95. Your next jamb ...
          Quote: Brylevsky
          Unlike a computer, a microcontroller does not have an operating system, not even the simplest DOS.

          Of course, for that, he is not badly programmed to perform certain actions. And the firmware can be considered an operating system.
          Quote: Brylevsky
          Not. Microcontrollers install, yes. Microcomputers are not. If the problem is solved by a microcontroller, a microcomputer will never be installed in the device, not even a cheap Rasberry Pi ...
          I don’t know enough about microelectronics to get caught up in the “tops” that you’re trying to “feed” me here.

          Again twenty-five. You see, you are tired ... What do microcontrollers have to do with it? How did the dispute begin? Is it possible to run Doom on a test. So in this test there is an ARM processor, Android 10 runs on it. You insist that this is all garbage, it is not possible to start, an external device is used. So the video clearly shows that there is a USB controller for connecting a keyboard and a flash drive with software to this test. And they tried to shove me that this is an arduino, on which they emulated a simple picture. Your words? And who are you trying to put a quilted jacket in your ears? Our scampering!
        5. region58
          region58 10 September 2020 04: 30
          +8
          Quote: Timeout
          firmware can be considered an operating system

          Moreover, in the end, everything is still translated into machine codes ...
        6. Rec
          Rec 13 September 2020 16: 44
          0
          Quote: Timeout
          multitasking on PC appeared

          Quote: Brylevsky
          microcontroller not multitasking

          In fairness, I must say that it would be nice to understand the terminology, because the term "multitasking" has variations. As for Windows95, the question is controversial, if in relation to the PC, then there were little-known operating systems, for example AmigaOS, these are the eighties.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 9 September 2020 18: 04
    +9
    I read it carefully. Tell me what is used as a processor in the described device, but I don't see it in the text.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 9 September 2020 18: 20
      -4
      Quote: Undecim
      then I don't see it in the text.

      At the time the author's certificate was issued, there was not even such a concept. Called whatever you like, described in the certificate as a converter.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 9 September 2020 18: 54
        10
        I have to upset you. This concept has existed since at least 1955.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 9 September 2020 19: 12
          -4
          Quote: Undecim
          This concept has existed since at least 1955.

          Is it? I know the calculating device, I know the block of relay groups, I know the transistors of the block assembly ... But I only found out about the processor after 71 years.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 9 September 2020 19: 58
            +5
            What you learned, damn it, after 1971, suggests that you simply did not have access to information, you were sitting behind the Iron Curtain.
            After 1971, this is Intel 4004.

            This is from the 1965 instruction for the IBM System / 360 Model 30. I hope you know what a "central processing unit, CPU" is.
          2. Timeout
            Timeout 9 September 2020 20: 29
            -3
            Dear, are you in yourself? Do you see the word microprocessor there? In the 360 ​​model, the CPU was not a single chip, but a rack with transistor block assemblies. And the Soviet school of computer development simply did not have this word! And when 4004 appeared, it was only then that I began to mention the word "microprocessor".
          3. Undecim
            Undecim 9 September 2020 21: 09
            +7
            Dear, you are in control. What does the microprocessor have to do with it? Initially, it was about when the term "processor" appeared (see my comment above). You wrote that in 1970 such a concept did not exist. I gave you instructions from 1965 with the term "processor" exactly in the sense in which it is still used today.
          4. Timeout
            Timeout 9 September 2020 23: 03
            -5
            Quote: Undecim
            I gave you an instruction from 1965 with the term "processor" exactly in the sense in which it is still used today.
            Along the way, it doesn't reach you ... And the fact that the terminology in the USSR and the USA is completely different to think and know is forbidden? Yes, a sad case ... Or you can't see the difference between the words "central processing unit" and "processor".
          5. Undecim
            Undecim 9 September 2020 23: 13
            +7
            The case is really sad. And the phrase Or you don't see the difference between the words "central processing unit" and "processor". leads to very sad thoughts.
            Let's try to go from the other side. Tell me. What are the fundamental differences between the 360 IBM System / 30 Model 1964 computer and the 1970 Gorokhov plotter, in your opinion, allow the latter to be considered a personal computer and the former not?
          6. Timeout
            Timeout 9 September 2020 23: 28
            -5
            Quote: Undecim
            in your opinion, allow the latter to be considered a personal computer and the former not

            To begin with, the 360 ​​is a mainframe, but by no means a PC. There is no monitor or keyboard. Judging by your remarks you are reading from punched cards or punched tape. And the Gorokhov architecture is painted as it exists in the present time.
          7. Undecim
            Undecim 9 September 2020 23: 47
            +8
            Is having a monitor and keyboard an architecture? I naively believed that architecture is the principles of operation, information connections and communication of the main logical nodes of a computer.
            Judging by your replica, you read from punched cards or punched tape
            And what would fundamentally change in our dialogue if I received information from punched cards. Except for the response time, nothing.
            And what can you say about this computer.

            What prevents him from claiming the role of a PC.
            By the way, what did the monitor, keyboard and all other components of Gorokhov's computer look like?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 9 September 2020 14: 30
    +3
    Misprint - Gorokhov.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 9 September 2020 13: 58
    +5
    And the mobile phone? The first mobile phone was invented by L.I. Kupriyanovich in 1957 and was tested in 1958. Thus, the mobile phone was officially invented and tested in the USSR 15 years earlier than in the USA.
    12 years later. The first publicly available mobile telephony appeared in 1946 in St. Louis.
    1. ccsr
      20 September 2020 09: 55
      -4
      Quote: Undecim
      12 years later. The first publicly available mobile telephony appeared in 1946 in St. Louis.

      This is not so, because the first mobile phone in the United States appeared much later, according to the statement of the American inventor:



      And more:
      https://ok.ru/video/2021959993975
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 20 September 2020 10: 41
        0
        You will first decide what the discussion is about - about mobile telephony or about cellular communication in the modern sense.
  • fa2998
    fa2998 9 September 2020 17: 07
    +2
    And what has to do with who invented in advance. Let's see, who organized the mass production, Reduced the cost, and exports all over the world, and pays taxes.
    And from us, they took money from the budget, invented it, sold it to the military at astronomical cost (and some were not produced), and classified it. The money was written off.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • SaLaR
    SaLaR 9 September 2020 12: 36
    10
    It was heavy and not comfortable ... they preferred to take one more spare belt ... 5 OBSPN Maryina Gorka
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 9 September 2020 13: 57
      0
      Quote: SaLaR
      we preferred to take one more spare belt ..

      As far as I remember, only foxes had radio stations from the "birds" of the five, and they did not hesitate to drag out the socket. They performed painfully specific tasks. And the rest of the five ran more and more from 159, but the belt does not go to her ...
      1. SaLaR
        SaLaR 9 September 2020 17: 28
        +8
        belts went to KM .. usually they took 2 belts for one-day races .. and from 159 "rex" ran
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 9 September 2020 17: 58
          -2
          Quote: SaLaR
          belts went to KM ..

          The first experimental "Severki" for testing appeared already during the withdrawal, at the end of 88. And this station did not show itself especially, it worked unstably on the "pin" and "sandpiper" in the mountains. She didn't earn much love that way. And the 10NKP-6S belt appeared on the P-352 "SOKOL", as well as on the Swift, Proton, and Bumblebee.
          Quote: SaLaR
          usually took 2 belts for one-day races.

          One belt is enough for 2 hours of continuous transmission at Severka
          Quote: SaLaR
          159 were running "Rex"

          Look at the avatar, you will understand.
          1. SaLaR
            SaLaR 9 September 2020 18: 37
            +7
            -R-394KM "Strizh-KM" portable HF radio station for reconnaissance groups ... they took 2 belts and a ROM-shku. We never went to the races with only one belt .. there was always a risk of damage or simply being discharged in winter in the cold. And the 159 was usually carried by the "Rex" when they went to the shooting range or when moving in a convoy to jump .. true if they were not given a "spider" from the same 159, because usually the "Rex" were as far from communication as the Earth from the moon))) DMB 90-92 5OBSPN "spider". PS And with KM on his shoulders, he wound more than one hundred kilometers through the Belarusian forests
            1. Timeout
              Timeout 9 September 2020 19: 50
              -3
              Quote: SaLaR
              to the races

              Let's figure it out. Horse racing is an exercise between divisions. The last and only races in the top five were at 91. Next.
              Quote: SaLaR
              R-394KM "Strizh-KM" portable HF radio station for reconnaissance groups
              Copy-paste from the Internet is immediately visible.
              Swifts are taken out in at least two groups! At a distance of 100 kilometers from the base. And in the 90th in the top five he was replaced by Severok. And so no one ran beyond the bath. And most importantly, all citizens of the Russian Federation were fired before March 92, due to the transfer of the brigade to the army of Belarus. Well, the cherry on the cake, no rex and spiders. Even Banderlog and Trucks did not take root. I know not by hearsay, at 91 I was with the guys from the five in one interesting place. So darken you sir ...
              1. SaLaR
                SaLaR 9 September 2020 20: 22
                10
                1. I took the name from the Internet .. we just called it "keemka" .. and as it is correct I have long forgotten
                2.Russian citizens quit their jobs last in SEPTEMBER 92
                3. "Rex" is a scout .. "spider" is a radio operator-scout ..
                4.Km was taken by each reconnaissance group
                5.Jumps are one-day .. three-day .. and six-day .. usually battalion
                6.And went to the bathhouse with infantry ... in the neighboring guards-tank division ... since there was no one of our own
                7.I am a Belarusian
                8.And the cherry ... if you know the top five well, then tell me why the neighboring division called us dogs (I give a tip: not that we barked, but for that ... ?????)
            2. ccsr
              12 September 2020 20: 58
              +2
              Quote: SaLaR
              It was heavy and not comfortable ... they preferred to take another spare belt ...
              We never went to the races with only one belt .. there was always a risk of damage or simply being discharged in winter in the cold.

              You describe the situation in the Central zone of the former USSR and, in addition, with the short-term use of "Swifts" during the competition of reconnaissance groups of operational intelligence, where the BSP-1, in general, was not planned to be used initially. But if you were among our special forces officers in Mozambique, Angola, or trained Sandinistas for Nicaragua, then I assure you, you yourself would have demanded that at least one BSP-1 be assigned to your group, and not an additional "Belt". By the way, to keep you informed - "Swifts" in Bulgaria under license began to be produced and supplied to different countries, because there were too many orders for this radio station. And as a rule, these countries lay much to the south of our borders and it was necessary to take into account how to provide them with uninterrupted power supply, which is why it is a mistake to think that this product was intended only for special forces brigades. Partisans and agents were more interested in such a device than special forces, and this is a fact - just keep this in mind when evaluating the product.
              1. SaLaR
                SaLaR 12 September 2020 22: 03
                0
                I completely agree with you ... I just shared my experience of use). Indeed, the BSP-1 was like an exotic device for us). And "Strizh" was very much praised by the officers who "went" to Yerevan in 89-90, they said that "Strizh" keeps in touch with the unit better than the huge mobile radio stations of the "centro" )
                1. ccsr
                  13 September 2020 10: 34
                  +2
                  Quote: SaLaR
                  And "Strizh" was highly praised by the officers who "traveled" to Yerevan in 89-90, saying that "Strizh" keeps in touch with the unit better than the huge mobile radio stations of the "central"

                  If we turn to our military history, the representatives of the Supreme Command headquarters, descending to the fronts during the Great Patriotic War, took with them an officer of special radio communications with the famous station "Sever" (the ancestor of "Swift"), which provided them with constant communication with the General Staff. So our small-sized communications weren't as bad as some might think, especially in the hands of true radio professionals.
                  Quote: SaLaR
                  Indeed, the BSP-1 was like an exotic device for us).

                  The brigade has an RTR company, groups from which could conduct reconnaissance from positions for a long time, but for this they had to keep passive radio and electronic reconnaissance means constantly in working order. So they needed a BSP-1 battery more than an additional "Belt". But I agree that the "scouts" from the detachments in our zone generally did not need these batteries, which is why they were not included in the radio operator's equipment set.
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 14 September 2020 17: 04
                    -1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    The "scouts" from the detachments in our zone generally did not need these batteries, which is why they were not included in the equipment of radio operators.

                    in the Arctic, I also had to run with a spare belt sad
                    Quote: ccsr
                    battery BSP-1

                    We didn't even get close
                    1. ccsr
                      14 September 2020 18: 27
                      +1
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      We didn't even get close

                      This battery was still being developed for the more southern regions, so it could not get to you. A generator based on semiconductor thermoelectric converters with the same output characteristics was developed for the northern regions. R&D was carried out and prototypes were created, which passed State tests. But the product did not go into mass production - perhaps later I will write about the history of this project in more detail, if anyone is interested in it.
                      1. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 15 September 2020 16: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: ccsr
                        maybe later I will write about the history of this project in more detail, if it interests anyone.

                        I'm so sure But there are few of us here I know one more, but he hasn't appeared for a long time request
          2. ccsr
            10 September 2020 12: 06
            +1
            Quote: Timeout
            The first experimental "Severki" for testing appeared already during the withdrawal, at the end of 88. And this station did not show itself especially, it worked unstably on the "pin" and "sandpiper" in the mountains. She didn't earn much love that way.

            The thing is that the Severok-K radio station was created by the developers of the Sarapul Radio Plant on their own initiative and the TTZ for this product was not approved by the general customer, but only individual positions were agreed. Therefore, "Severok-K" might not have entered the special forces units at all if the war in Afghanistan had not been going on and there was a catastrophic lack of communication systems that would ensure operation in mountainous terrain on routes up to 200 km. The development was carried out for the money allocated by their ministry, and not at the expense of the Ministry of Defense, so one can say that the General Staff of the GRU saved money at least on this, although the purchases of serial equipment were already under the military budget, but under the control of the military representation. As an interesting fact - the experienced "Severok-K" visited the North Pole, when they decided to conduct tests in polar latitudes, and this product was transferred to one of Shparo's expeditions. Surprisingly, they managed to organize communication sessions even over the phone, if my memory serves me right. So it was not a bad radio station.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 9 September 2020 12: 39
    +5
    And in conclusion I would like to note that when our leaders mention the USSR and "galoshes", which supposedly could only be produced there, it makes me laugh from their "enlightenment"

    They say everything and everyone as intended !!! Because they are all united only by fear and hatred, before the great history of the Great Country. OUR STORY!
  • Lebed
    Lebed 9 September 2020 12: 51
    +4
    when our leaders mention the USSR and "galoshes", which supposedly could only be produced there, I get ridiculous from their "enlightenment"

    Such "leaders" should have been put in quotation marks
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 9 September 2020 13: 50
    +6
    And in conclusion, I would like to note that when our leaders mention the USSR and "galoshes", which supposedly could only be produced there, it makes me laugh from their "enlightenment"

    And when some begin to lie about the fact that “our leaders mention the USSR and the“ galoshes ”that supposedly could only be produced there,” I get ridiculous from the arrogance of such authors. After all, this is the Internet, do they really believe that a person will not check what they say?
    1. ccsr
      9 September 2020 14: 21
      -3
      Quote: Spade
      And in conclusion, I would like to note that when our leaders mention the USSR and "galoshes", which supposedly could only be produced there, it makes me laugh from their "enlightenment"

      And when some begin to lie about the fact that “our leaders mention the USSR and the“ galoshes ”that supposedly could only be produced there,” I get ridiculous from the arrogance of such authors. After all, this is the Internet, do they really believe that a person will not check what they say?

      And this is who said:
      https://youtu.be/yh-Wu3PPbY4
      So who's lying - you or Putin? Check it out ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 9 September 2020 14: 45
        +6
        Quote: ccsr
        So who's lying - you or Putin? Check it out ...

        You.
        In the video on the link there is nothing about "galoshes", which supposedly could only be produced there "(c)
        Lie, until the end?
        Even when they poke their nose into black coal, continue to shout "yes, you can see for yourself, he's white, open your eyes ...."
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 9 September 2020 14: 01
    +8
    At the very beginning of the 50s, solar panels had already left the laboratories, and in 1954 industrial production began. During the Vietnam War, they were already in full use. The battery slowly charged the battery, and then it was used for its intended purpose. There the guys from the GRU saw them and ordered them from the military industry too. Waited 15 years ...
    1. ccsr
      9 September 2020 14: 31
      +1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      There the guys from the GRU saw them and ordered them from the military industry too. Waited 15 years ...

      Do not fantasize if you are not in the subject, because the Vietnam War began in 65, and the first solar panels in the GRU appeared already in the late fifties. They were low power and used expandable mirrored metal plates to increase the flow of solar energy to silicon converters.
      Quote: A. Privalov
      At the very beginning of the 50s, solar panels had already left the laboratories, and in 1954 industrial production began.

      You apparently have a bad idea of ​​how military equipment differs from civilian equipment, especially since American solar panels were ineffective for the military, if only because the panel fill factor with converters was extremely low. And the efficiency of their converters was lower than ours. The Israelis did the same - they just sucked compared to our batteries.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 9 September 2020 15: 10
        +3
        Colleague, thanks for the article! I remember how our RTS members were happy with these panels ... The hole on the KShMke broke every other time, and the belts for the "Falcons" were always ready.
        1. ccsr
          9 September 2020 19: 14
          +4
          Quote: Timeout
          Colleague, thanks for the article! I remember how our RTS members were happy with these panels ...

          I will only note that in addition to the strict requirements for this product from the special radio communications service of the GRU General Staff for reliability, there were also restrictions on the dimensions of the solar battery - this led to excessive weight. They had to match the dimensions of the R-394K, (KM) and match the cover of the radio station so that it could be dropped into the GK-30. But the product turned out to be quite versatile for many situations, which is why it was used not only by reconnaissance units, but also, for example, on the training grounds of some types of armed forces.
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 9 September 2020 19: 17
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            I will only note that in addition to the strict requirements for this product from the special radio communications service of the GRU General Staff for reliability, there were also restrictions on the dimensions of the solar battery - this led to excessive weight.

            Thank you, I am aware of this)) But for the readers, that's it!
      2. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 9 September 2020 16: 01
        +5
        Quote: ccsr
        the Vietnam War began in 65,

        It started 10 (ten!) Years earlier. Learn history, sir. Then, you will talk about the coefficients and efficiency. hi
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 9 September 2020 17: 28
          0
          Quote: A. Privalov
          It started 10 (ten!) Years earlier.

          Dear, yes, the Vietnam War began in 1955, but the US got involved in 1965. If you read Wikipedia, do it carefully. So listen to the ratios and efficiency for general development.
        2. ccsr
          9 September 2020 18: 33
          -3
          Quote: A. Privalov
          It started 10 (ten!) Years earlier. Learn history, sir. Then, you will talk about the coefficients and efficiency.

          Generally, one should not confuse the civil war in Vietnam and the full-scale war of the United States against North Vietnam:
          The war began as a civil war in South Vietnam. Later, North Vietnam was drawn into the war, which later received the support of the PRC and the USSR, as well as the United States and its allies (the SEATO military bloc), who were fulfilling their obligations to protect their friendly South Vietnam. As events developed, the war became intertwined with the parallel civil wars in Laos and Cambodia. All of the fighting in Southeast Asia from the late 1950s to 1975 is known as the Second Indochina War.
          The war can be divided into several periods: guerrilla warfare in South Vietnam (1955 [1] [2] - 1965), full-scale US military intervention (March 1965 - 1973) and the final stage of the war (1973-1975).

          As for the coefficients, I think that you are a complete dilettante in this matter, and do not understand at all what we are talking about. But keep in mind that I was then aware of everything that was happening in the world in the field of solar energy converters, which is why I know what you have a perverse idea of.
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 9 September 2020 19: 04
            +8
            Quote: ccsr
            As for the coefficients, I think that you are a complete dilettante in this matter, and do not understand at all what we are talking about. But keep in mind that I was then aware of everything that was happening in the world in the field of solar energy converters, which is why I know what you have a perverse idea of.

            Well, if you are aware of everything that was happening in the world, you should know that even in everyday life, solar-powered receivers were used already in the late 50s. What about military use? Everything there was much better and of higher quality.

            An advertisement for the same device in The New York Daily News, November 24, 1957.
            1. A. Privalov
              A. Privalov 9 September 2020 19: 24
              +7
              1954 year. The solar panel charges the battery. The army did not miss the opportunity to use such a device for its own purposes. This is what I was talking about in my first comment.
              1. ccsr
                9 September 2020 19: 40
                -3
                Quote: A. Privalov
                1954 year. The solar panel charges the battery.

                They only repeated what was done in the USSR in the thirties:
                About the first household solar panels installed in the USSR in Tashkent, "in the first House of the Sun in the Union", reported the newspaper "Evening Moscow" on January 19, 1933:

                “The house of the sun is a house of miracles. This house stands in Tashkent, on the outskirts of the city, in the green of fruit trees. In the first in the Union House of the Sun - the first two residents, comrades Trofimov and Fazdev, young Soviet scientists.
                In 1928, the Tashkent Geophysical Laboratory began testing solar energy. <...>
                Comrade Fazdev says that for a family of 5-6 people it is enough to install a frame of 1 square meter. It will cost 20-30 rubles. The 18-bucket frame three years ago constituted the entire actinometric (from the word actis - ray) laboratory of young scientists and was the only one in the Union. Now in the cities of the Union there are already 8 such frames. <…>
                The achievements of solar technicians can become the property of the masses. We must become, if I may say so, sun lovers, ”writes Vechernyaya Moscow 85 years ago.
                1. A. Privalov
                  A. Privalov 9 September 2020 19: 57
                  +7
                  Dear ccsr, that's right, back in 1928, the Tashkent Geophysical Laboratory started testing solar energy.
                  I have highlighted the keywords in the text you quoted:
                  ... for a family of 5 - 6 people, it is enough to install a frame of 1 square meter. It will cost 20-30 rubles. 18 bucket frame three years ago it was the entire actinometric (from the word actis - ray) laboratory of young scientists and was the only one in the Union. Now in the cities of the Union there are already 8 such frames. <…>

                  Here we are not talking about a solar battery that converts light into electrical current, but only about a solar-powered water heater.
                  You got a little excited, it happens. lol hi
                  1. ccsr
                    9 September 2020 20: 19
                    -3
                    Quote: A. Privalov
                    You got a little excited, it happens.

                    I didn’t get excited, but you’re not in the subject that our work on creating solar converters began in the 30s of the last century:
                    In the 30s of the last century, domestic scientists under the leadership of Academician A.F. Ioffe created the first solar thallium sulphide cells. Their efficiency was also low. However, work on solar panels continued.

                    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/14467/
                    1. A. Privalov
                      A. Privalov 9 September 2020 20: 43
                      +9
                      Quote: ccsr
                      In the 30s of the last century, Russian scientists under the leadership of Academician A.F. Ioffe created the first solar thallium sulfur cells. Their efficiency was also low. However, work on solar panels continued.

                      Quite right. Abram Faivishevich Ioffe dealt with this problem as well. It is true that the idea of ​​using the sulfur-thallium complex did not belong to him, but to Wilhelm Konrad Roentgen, with whom Ioffe studied and then worked at the University of Munich and received his doctorate. But Ioffe, of course, brought this idea to a practical, albeit laboratory application.
                      1. ccsr
                        9 September 2020 20: 54
                        -5
                        Quote: A. Privalov
                        Quite right. Abram Faivishevich Ioffe dealt with this problem as well.

                        Well, no need to be clever - I worked for several years with the Leningrad branch of VNNIIIT, which bears his name and knew the people who were his students very well. What did you want to surprise me with? Or should I tell you that in addition to this, he also dealt with thermocouples during the Great Patriotic War? Don't try to surprise me with Internet knowledge - I got it when the Internet didn't exist yet.
                      2. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 9 September 2020 21: 41
                        +8
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Well, no need to be clever - I worked for several years with the Leningrad branch of VNNIIIT, which bears his name and knew the people who were his students very well. What did you want to surprise me with? Or should I tell you that in addition to this, he also dealt with thermocouples during the Great Patriotic War? Don't try to surprise me with Internet knowledge - I got it when the Internet didn't exist yet.

                        Oh, in 1988-89 I had the pleasure to write my part of several dissertations for good, but very busy people who studied at the graduate school of the Ioffe Physicotechnical Institute. There was in those days this kind of extra work. laughing
                        There was no Internet then, right, but praise be to the Almighty, there were already computers from IBM. One of these - with a 20 MB hard disk (I don't think I remember exactly anymore) helped me a lot, since he had a simple DOS text editor. I had to carry 5,25 inch floppy disks somewhere for printing. hi
          2. ccsr
            9 September 2020 19: 32
            -6
            Quote: A. Privalov
            Well, if you are aware of everything that was happening in the world, you should know that even in everyday life, solar-powered receivers were used already in the late 50s. What about military use? Everything there was much better and of higher quality.

            When you bring something from military equipment with silicon converters, capable of giving 2 amperes at a voltage of 12,6 V with 4,5 kg of weight at a temperature of -50 to +50 C and with solar energy of 800 watts per square meter. meter, then we'll talk where you can be sent with your household receiver. By the way, do you have any idea that your battery with a receiver will not pass tests in group 1.14 from the word at all? However, I think you do not understand at all what this is about.
            1. A. Privalov
              A. Privalov 9 September 2020 19: 45
              +7
              Quote: ccsr
              When you bring something from military equipment with silicon converters, capable of giving 2 amperes at a voltage of 12,6 V with 4,5 kg of weight at a temperature of -50 to +50 C and with solar energy of 800 watts per square meter. meter, then we'll talk where you can be sent with your household receiver. By the way, do you have any idea that your battery with a receiver will not pass tests in group 1.14 from the word at all? However, I think you do not understand at all what this is about.

              "Solar portable battery" BSP-1.
              An army folding solar battery containing a set of articulated, stacked in the transport position one on top of the other six panels, consisting of frames with fixed bearing surfaces with solar cells, and a mechanism for opening and folding the panels, with increased battery resistance to shock and vibration loads, along the perimeter - a sealant, while the bearing surfaces are made of duralumin, material and are hermetically attached to the frames.
              Features:
              BSP-1 (weight 5,32 kg),
              works in the temperature range from - 50 to + 55 degrees, with air humidity up to 98%.
              In the 'CEA power supply' mode, this battery provides an output voltage of 15 V at a current of up to 1,74 A, in the 'charging' mode - a charge current of about 95 mA when the voltage changes from 10 to 13,8 V.
              They were used in the army in 1980-2000.

              This is all the 80s of the last century. I told you about the events that took place 25-30 years earlier. However, knowing that in the 80s of the last century the West was much more advanced in terms of basic elements of electronics in relation to the USSR, I can assume with a high degree of confidence that in the field of solar panels the USSR was not "ahead of the rest." hi
              1. ccsr
                9 September 2020 19: 53
                -6
                Quote: A. Privalov
                However, knowing that in the 80s of the last century the West was much more advanced in terms of basic elements of electronics in relation to the USSR, I can assume with a high degree of confidence that in the field of solar panels the USSR was not "ahead of the rest."

                Your illiteracy does not surprise me - the efficiency of solar panels depends on the purity of obtaining silicon converters, and in this area we were ahead of the whole world, because we were the first to go into space. As for military electronics, for example in the West there were no analogues to our correspondent shortwave radio stations, comparable in performance even to those produced for the operational link of the armed forces. However, you can continue to fill in what was the advanced west in consumer goods - I will not deny that. But this site has a military direction, which is why your attempts to compare consumer goods with military equipment are ridiculous for me, at least on this forum.
                By the way, the Israeli army had solar panels even before 1985, although I don't remember now who produced them, but at least the Americans did something on their orders.
                1. A. Privalov
                  A. Privalov 9 September 2020 20: 23
                  10
                  Consumer goods are moving for military development. The military had everything earlier.
                  The expression "There were no analogues" is just a form of speech used in Russian agitprop to calm the souls of illiterate, but very gullible uryakalok.
                  I don’t know what the staff did for Israel.
                  As for solar cells, they were indeed used in space technology, where solar energy was used to power satellites. In 1958, the Vanguard I satellite used a tiny one-watt panel to power its radios. In the same year, the Soviet "Sputnik-3", the American "Vanguard II" and "Explorer III" with solar panels on board were launched. In 1964, NASA was responsible for launching the first NIMBUS satellite, capable of being fully powered by a 470W solar array. In 1966, NASA launched the world's first orbital astronomical observatory, powered by solar panels with a total capacity of 1 kW.
                  1. ccsr
                    9 September 2020 20: 36
                    -6
                    Quote: A. Privalov
                    The expression "There were no analogues" is just a form of speech used in Russian agitprop to calm the souls of illiterate, but very gullible uryakalok.

                    You are even more illiterate than I expected, because I specifically mentioned in the text that R&D was carried out, and R&D analyzed not only what was produced in the world for the military, but also promising work in this area, including space. And only then it was determined whether our developers would be able to create something that would satisfy the customer and would be no lower than world achievements in terms of specific characteristics. So our developers were aware of everything that was happening in the world, including the use of gallium arsenide to increase the efficiency of solar cells.
                    Quote: A. Privalov
                    I don’t know what the staff did for Israel.

                    And you could not know this - it is unlikely that you served in the IDF at that time.
            2. sp77ark
              sp77ark 14 September 2020 20: 56
              0
              I do not want to disappoint you, but, judging by the x-kams, this is a chemical 15-volt battery, discharging up to 1.74A and charging from a solar panel with a current of up to 95 mA. Those. no 800W per square meter is out of the question, maximum 0.095A x 13.8V = 1.3W.
              There are no miracles. Today, Chinese panels give many times more.
              1. ccsr
                15 September 2020 11: 46
                +1
                Quote: sp77ark
                I do not want to disappoint you, but, judging by the x-kams, this is a chemical 15-volt battery, discharging up to 1.74A and charging from a solar panel with a current of up to 95 mA.

                No need to disappoint me - in BSP-1 there were no chemical sources of current from the word at all, so your speculations do not correspond to reality.
                Quote: sp77ark
                Those. no 800W per square meter is out of the question,

                Actually 800 watts per sq. meters is the average power of the Sun's radiation, falling on a summer day at noon in the Central USSR on one square meter of any surface. Here's your reference
                The radiation power of the Sun at its zenith near the Earth's surface is estimated at about 1350 W / m2. ...

                In fact, this is a calculated value for spacecraft, and the real one near the Earth is much less for various reasons.
                Therefore, when developing the samples, we took the real value of the radiation power, and not the theoretically possible one.
                Quote: sp77ark
                Today, Chinese panels give many times more.

                And they did not come close to what the BSP-1 gave out. By the way, if you are really interested in the topic, then they test their products at a radiation power of 1000 watts per square meter for a few seconds, so you will never get what they say in a real situation.
                Therefore, leave the word "times" for amateurs, and really miracles do not happen, because only recently it was possible to approach increasing the efficiency of silicon panels:
                Researchers at MIT forced one photon to knock out two electrons at once, which increased the theoretical maximum efficiency from 29,1 to 35%. The authors of the discovery hope that further experiments will further increase these numbers.
                Traditionally, it is believed that the efficiency of standard silicon solar cells cannot exceed 29,1%. This is partly due to the fact that each photon can only knock out one electron, even if its energy is enough to interact with two. Scientists have been trying to overcome this limitation for several decades.

                https://zen.yandex.ru/media/htech_plus/preodolen-teoreticheskii-predel-kpd-kremnievyh-solnechnyh-panelei-5d1e1cf47b832900ad7f65b3
                I will only note that in Soviet times they came very close to the theoretical value when creating silicon wafers by sputtering in special vacuum installations, where high purity of materials was achieved.
                1. sp77ark
                  sp77ark 16 September 2020 20: 26
                  0
                  1. Ok. Then why "Charge" mode? What and where does it charge?
                  2. Where has this miracle technology gone? Why did the Ministry of Defense abandon it in 2000? This is a "gold mine"!
                  3. Consider: 1.75A x 13.8V = 24.3W. In aliexpress, a meter panel gives 100W. They lie, but not at times.
                  MP, NASA has panels of Soltek and Frauhofer with an efficiency of 47%. And so, the average figures are from 21% (Chinese) to 37%.
                  1. ccsr
                    16 September 2020 20: 59
                    0
                    Quote: sp77ark
                    1. Ok. Then why "Charge" mode? What and where does it charge?

                    Accumulators 10NKGTs-1d and 10NKP-6c, as well as any other battery with a voltage of 12,6 V and for this purpose, special connectors of the "crocodile" type were provided.
                    Quote: sp77ark
                    2. Where has this miracle technology gone? Why did the Ministry of Defense abandon it in 2000? This is a "gold mine"!

                    You probably do not know that then they cut the army so that there was no time for these products - combat units and new weapons went under the knife. If the intelligence center in Lourdes was closed, then no one remembered about such batteries then.
                    Quote: sp77ark
                    3. Consider: 1.75A x 13.8V = 24.3W. In aliexpress, a meter panel gives 100W. They lie, but not at times.

                    Have you seen this panel when folded? By the way, where did you get the idea that this power can be obtained at least within 5-10 minutes if the batteries heat up to 70-75 C? Will this panel withstand landing or mechanical damage from the shock wave?
                    Quote: sp77ark
                    NASA has panels of Soltek and Frauhofer with an efficiency of 47%.

                    Silicon? There are no such indicators for silicon converters.
                    Quote: sp77ark
                    And so, the average rates are from 21% (Chinese) to 37%.

                    Can't reach 37% efficiency of silicon panels yet - don't fantasize. Experimental work is still underway and no one knows what the cost of such panels will be:
                    Researchers at MIT made one photon knock out two electrons at once, which increased the theoretical maximum efficiency from 29,1 to 35%.

                    However, I have no doubt that now they can achieve much higher efficiency of solar converters than it was almost forty years ago - this is a promising direction for the future, and I am a supporter of such developments. Moreover, space needs solar converters - this is obvious.
                    1. sp77ark
                      sp77ark 17 September 2020 00: 48
                      0
                      Clear. The batteries were charged with a current of 95mA from the panel. In the "power supply" mode, the current was reversed - the connected batteries supplied the equipment through a 15V voltage regulator with a current of up to 1.75A, so as not to switch the battery.
                      I took information about the panels here: https://solarlove.org/which-solar-panels-most-efficient/
                      Info updated in 2015, maybe now max. the efficiency is even higher.
                      And panels in ali polysilicon, of different sizes, can be packed and connected as you like and assemble a source with the required voltage and current. There are also folding ones for tourists. We are talking about consumer goods, in the military version, the design and materials will be appropriate, as well as the operating temperature.
                    2. ccsr
                      17 September 2020 12: 52
                      0
                      Quote: sp77ark
                      Clear. The batteries were charged with a current of 95mA from the panel.

                      Only 10NKGTs-1d, because these are HERMETIC batteries, and a higher current would lead to an explosion when charged. That is why the charge current was limited to 100 mA. For all other batteries, the maximum charging current was 2 A.
                      Quote: sp77ark
                      In the "power supply" mode, the current was reversed - the connected batteries supplied the equipment through a 15V voltage regulator with a current of up to 1.75A, so as not to switch the battery.

                      This is not entirely true, because at that time most of the equipment was designed for 12,6 V plus 10 and minus 20% of the nominal. So when powering the equipment, the maximum output voltage is 13,8 V, and when charging, the voltage could reach large values ​​up to 14,5 - 15 V.
                      Quote: sp77ark
                      And panels in ali polysilicon, of different sizes, can be packed and connected as you like and assemble a source with the required voltage and current. There are also folding ones for tourists.

                      For the military, this is not suitable due to the fact that it is an unreliable design, and it is dangerous to do it under bullets.
                      Quote: sp77ark
                      We are talking about consumer goods, in the military version, the design and materials will be appropriate, as well as the operating temperature.

                      I immediately said that this is a MILITARY development and there are completely different requirements for such products. Not one consumer goods are suitable for this, which is why they can make their own batteries without strict restrictions. When the BSP-1 product was being developed, everything that was produced in the world, including for the military, was studied. Unambiguously I affirm that no one in the world then produced anything like this in terms of reliability, range of application and dimensions when folded.
                    3. sp77ark
                      sp77ark 17 September 2020 22: 49
                      0
                      Google "military solar panel" or "tactical solar panel" smile
                      There will be many pictures.
                      For example: https: //powertraveller.com/products/tactical-solargorilla-multi-voltage-solar-charger
                      Then I take my leave.
                    4. ccsr
                      18 September 2020 11: 22
                      -1
                      Quote: sp77ark
                      For example: https: //powertraveller.com/products/tactical-solargorilla-multi-voltage-solar-charger
                      Then I take my leave.

                      An example is clearly unfortunate, if only because you bring today's batteries and compare them with those that were produced in our country 35 years ago. By the way, you seem to have not even studied their characteristics, because
                      TACTICAL SOLARILLA
                      MULTI-VOLTAGE SOLAR CHARGER BEDROOM
                      * Multi-voltage 10W, clamshell solar charger
                      * 1x USB output: 5V / 2A
                      * 1X DC output: 20V / 0.5A
                      * Weight: 848g
                      • Size: 264mm x 200mm x 19mm (folded)

                      If you are familiar with calculating the power of solar panels, you will understand that this battery is 2,5 times weaker in power than BSP-1. So the comparison is incorrect, and I do not even compare the extended range of characteristics, because the advertising brochure is modestly silent about this. For example, the temperature range of application, mechanical strength or the ability to overload, which is important in a combat zone.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 9 September 2020 19: 33
    +9
    Quote: ccsr
    The Israelis did the same - they just sucked compared to our batteries.

    Don't bother yourself or people. Israel did not manufacture solar panels until 1985.
  • Timeout
    Timeout 9 September 2020 14: 11
    0
    Quote: Undecim
    The first publicly available mobile telephony appeared in 1946 in St. Louis.

    Dear, do not distort. It was an experienced network that never paid off. And then for almost 40 years they could not do it properly. And in the Union, the mobile network "Altai" based on honeycombs has been operating since 1965 in 114 cities.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 9 September 2020 21: 30
      +7
      Dear, do not blame your sore head on a healthy one. You twist. It was about the fact that mobile communication was invented in the USSR in 1958, and not about where it is normally implemented. Read the comments carefully.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 9 September 2020 15: 02
    +4
    Article class!
    All on the topic, little known, competent.
    I wish I had more of this, I’m tired of politics ...
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 9 September 2020 15: 22
    +8
    And in conclusion I would like to note that when our leaders mention the USSR and "galoshes", which supposedly could only produce there, it makes me laugh from their "enlightenment", because they have no idea what the country's industry could produce in that time.

    Rather, it becomes ridiculous from the authors of such maxims, who did not even bother to fully watch the president's speech, content with rehash of Caruso performed by Rabinovich cropped rollers from pseudo patriots.
    Here's what was actually said about the "galoshes":
    Yes, my dear, yes. No need to discuss. The fact is that what we produced (and we don’t have to wave our hands), nobody needed, because nobody bought our galoshes, except for the Africans, who had to walk on the hot sand. That is the whole point.
    We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense after the Great Patriotic War.
    From the audience: ... And the first satellite.
    Vladimir Putin: Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet government, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.
    But consumer goods ... Zhirinovsky has already said this. Where were they? There were none. Let's not lie to each other and the people. The people know what was and what was not.

    And BSP-1 clearly does not belong to consumer goods, to which and only to which the term "galoshes" belonged.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 9 September 2020 15: 28
      +1
      Quote: Alexey RA
      to which and only to which the term "galoshes" belonged.

      It is believed that Putin was not original in this trolls. The first was still Chukovsky in the poem "Telephone"
      And the root cause was a very strange advertisement of Rezinotrest
    2. ccsr
      9 September 2020 18: 49
      -5
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Here's what was actually said about the "galoshes":

      You, apparently, as a professional agitator, may not even see Putin's derogatory attitude in the words about galoshes in the assessment of the USSR, a country that controlled not only space but also nuclear energy. But I, as a practice, am ashamed of our president, who showed himself to be simply ignorant in relation to those who then worked and worked. By the way, where did you get the idea that someone needed our galoshes, if our Lada cars were bought even in Germany and England, and I saw Zenit cameras on sale in Germany. So the KGB operative Putin could not help but see this even in Dresden - we were there at the same time.
      Quote: Alexey RA
      And BSP-1 clearly does not belong to consumer goods,

      And here you are again not in the subject - there were many customers from the civilian sphere for this product, but the production capacity of the plant did not allow satisfying their requests, and the secrecy regime did not allow immediately starting supplies to the national economy in addition to the Ministry of Defense. By the way, the Krasnodar plant "Saturn" began to produce cheap solar panels on a plastic basis in the size of one BSP-1 plate, but with lower reliability requirements and lower charging current - you just do not know how everything was at that time.
      1. Aag
        Aag 10 September 2020 11: 32
        +1
        Many thanks to the author for the interesting article and no less interesting "debate speeches"!
        hi
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 14 September 2020 09: 54
        -1
        Quote: ccsr
        You, apparently, as a professional agitator, may not even see Putin's derogatory attitude in the words about galoshes in the assessment of the USSR, a country that controlled not only space but also nuclear energy.

        So the GDP does not deny the achievements in this area, moreover, it calls to be proud of them.
        We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense after the Great Patriotic War.
        From the audience: ... And the first satellite.
        Vladimir Putin: Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet government, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.
        But consumer goods ... Zhirinovsky has already said this. Where were they? They weren't there.

        You stubbornly mix the defense industry and consumer goods into a bunch, seeing in the criticism of Soviet consumer goods the indiscriminate blaming of the whole country.
        Quote: ccsr
        By the way, where did you get the idea that someone needed our galoshes, if our Lada cars were bought even in Germany and England, and I saw Zenit cameras on sale in Germany.

        It is only necessary to clarify: "Lada" of the export version, which in the USSR were valued much higher than what AvtoVAZ produced for domestic consumption.
        As for the quality of domestic vehicles ... you know, I remember the times when a car mechanic was one of the ten most prestigious professions, along with a meat chopper and a dentist. smile And if there was a car in the family, it was necessary either to have a friend at the service station, or to spend the weekend in the garage, bringing to mind his "swallow".
        As for "Zenith" ... well, you know what was the main product of Krasnogorsk.
        The quality of domestic consumer goods was such that everyone who could get imports. Walls from the GDR, Czech chandeliers, Yugoslavian boots, etc. Or they even sewed and knitted themselves, since there were no problems with the patterns (we had a whole section of the wall filled with magazines with them).
        Quote: ccsr
        But here you are again not in the subject - there were many customers from the civilian sphere for this product, but the production capacity of the plant did not allow satisfying their requests, and the secrecy regime did not allow immediately starting supplies to the national economy in addition to the Ministry of Defense.

        The product was originally designed for the military. Therefore, this is not a consumer goods.
        1. ccsr
          14 September 2020 12: 31
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          So the GDP does not deny the achievements in this area, moreover, it calls to be proud of them.

          Well, since he is so proud of the achievements of the past, then why did he drag galoshes? Diligence not in the mind, or what?
          Quote: Alexey RA
          You stubbornly mix the defense industry and consumer goods into a bunch, seeing in the criticism of Soviet consumer goods the indiscriminate blaming of the whole country.

          It is in the example of galoshes that I see an indiscriminate criticism of the past of our country - Putin did not accept it after the revolution or the Great Patriotic War, so there is no need to give humiliating examples for us.
          And in Africa then we did not trade in galoshes, but built dams, power plants and factories, unfortunately this was a wrong decision.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And about the quality of domestic vehicles ...

          Just don’t tell me this - I had four cars from the VAZ family, and if a person’s hands grow from where they need to be, then this car could be repaired at home, even without a garage.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          As for "Zenith" ... well, you know what was the main product of Krasnogorsk.
          The quality of domestic consumer goods was such that everyone who could get imports. Walls from the GDR, Czech chandeliers, Yugoslavian boots, etc.

          Now what kind of cars do you drive, what cameras do you use, or what airplanes do you fly? Where are the achievements of "progressive capitalism" in Russia if we have lost our leadership in most advanced technologies, including the civil aircraft industry? By the way, already in the sixties we sold "Rockets" and "Comets" on hydrofoils to Greece and some Mediterranean countries - is this also from the "galoshes" class? Can you figure out how many Soviet-made planes and helicopters are still flying in different countries, so as not to spit into our past, remembering galoshes.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The product was originally designed for the military.

          This does not mean anything, and moreover, it explains to many critics of the Soviet past that some military developments were very quickly implemented. For example, almost immediately after the start of serial production of BSP-1 in Krasnodar, they began to produce single civilian panels in the dimensions of this battery and which used the developments that were obtained in the course of R&D - I myself held them. The same has been observed in many other industries and it is a fact.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 14 September 2020 13: 18
            -1
            Quote: ccsr
            Well, since he is so proud of the achievements of the past, then why did he drag galoshes? Diligence not in the mind, or what?

            Because you can't depict the USSR with one color: either a totalitarian GULAG, or rivers of milk in the banks of the jelly. Otherwise, our lovers of the USSR are trying to be holier than the Pope, trying to refute even the criticism of "certain shortcomings" officially permitted in Soviet times. smile
            Quote: ccsr
            Just don’t tell me this - I had four cars from the VAZ family, and if a person’s hands grow from where they need to be, then this car could be repaired at home, even without a garage.

            You see what's the matter ... the car is needed in order to transport people. And not so that the driver regularly repairs it.
            I also remember replacing piston rings with 21063 in a garage. And regular replacement of valve stem seals, adjusting clearances, bleeding brakes, etc.
            Quote: ccsr
            Now what kind of cars do you drive, what cameras do you use, or what airplanes do you fly?

            I now drive a car that requires only regular oil changes and twice a year - "changing shoes". And I remember the classics and the chisel as a bad dream.
            1. ccsr
              14 September 2020 13: 50
              +1
              Quote: Alexey RA
              You see what's the matter ... the car is needed in order to transport people. And not so that the driver regularly repairs it.

              Who told you that our "Lada" constantly broke? In the 48s, I had no serious breakdowns at all in the last GXNUMX and I never went to the service - I did everything myself. Of course, there were breakdowns, but on my first warranty "Ford Focus" the clutch basket and hydraulic booster flew, and both cases were recognized as factory defects. So there is no need to talk about the quality of cars, especially since I have a driving experience of XNUMX years, and now I buy only Toyota products.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              I also remember replacing piston rings with 21063 in a garage. And regular replacement of valve stem seals, adjusting clearances, bleeding brakes, etc.

              If I tell you the last cost for MOT of my car at an official dealership (the car is under warranty) is far from the most expensive, then your caps costs will look like the cost of a bottle of cognac. So everything is relative - at least take this into account. ...
              Quote: Alexey RA
              I now drive a car that requires only regular oil changes and twice a year - "changing shoes".

              I also drive this one, because I myself will never get inside my car - everything is too heaped up there, even for specialists. But this is a consequence of scientific and technological progress, and not the backwardness of the USSR in the same mobile technology. By the way, since you are already talking about a car, let me remind you that our tank in the eighties was estimated at $ 2 million when sold, and "Mercedes" for Grachev were purchased at a price of 180 thousand. brands each. That is, whatever one may say, but for one tank we could buy more than ten premium-class Mercedes in retail, and there would still be a small change based on the dollar exchange rate and the 1: 1,8 mark. Therefore, one should not be surprised that the country did not have enough money for Mercedes for everyone - the war cost us too much, so we invested in security. I hope you will at least take this into account.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              And I remember the classics and the chisel as a bad dream.

              I had two fives, one thirteenth and one eight, which I drove for several years since the eighties, and I remember them with great love, and I do not remember that I suffered or suffered with them. Maybe the problem is in the "gasket" and not in the quality of the machines?
  • Dimka75
    Dimka75 9 September 2020 15: 28
    +1
    If we compare the BSP-1 product with foreign analogues of that time, then everything that was produced in the USA, Japan, France and Israel for military purposes was inferior in tactical, technical and specific characteristics our design, and their reliability lagged far behind the reliability of our product. This is not surprising, because at that time we were not only the leaders in space development, but everything that was connected with space was the most advanced in our country.

    I readily believe and agree that it is better.
    Can you give any figures for these characteristics?
    I would like to compare for myself, even if not with those foreign ones that were then, but with modern portable panels.
    1. ccsr
      10 September 2020 12: 50
      +1
      Quote: Dimka75
      Can you give any figures for these characteristics?

      The main characteristics are given in the article itself, but if you are interested in exact numbers, then I will just remind you that the BSP-1 actually weighed less than 4,5 kg, and the whole set with a bag and a set of different devices was already pulling for more than five. The maximum charging current, like the power supply current of the CEA, was 2 amperes at a voltage of 12,6 to 13,8 V, as described on the forum, and the minimum was 100 mA, for a sealed 10NKGTs-1d battery, so that its explosion did not occur during charging ... https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/114/1904743.html
      As for the strength characteristics and temperature range, then no one in the world could produce anything like that, and usually no one asked such requirements, which is why their products for civilian needs were lighter than our BSP-1. The battery could be under water at a depth of 1 - 1,5 m and after deploying it, it was enough just to check and wipe the connectors before connecting so that moisture does not remain in them if it suddenly gets there. The permissible humidity of 98% indicates that during tropical showers it did not need to be rolled up and could be left to work until the sun appeared. I don't know what is being produced for military purposes now, but I think that the need for solar panels remains, at least for certain regions and hard-to-reach places. Whoever turned ROM-5m will confirm that it is better to carry a battery than a manual charger weighing about 3 kg.
      1. Dimka75
        Dimka75 10 September 2020 13: 18
        +1
        Thanks for the answer
  • Operator
    Operator 9 September 2020 18: 53
    +7
    The question is - why didn't the pedal-driven generator fit? At night, the solar battery does not work, and there is always a regular pedaling “victim” in any team.
    1. SaLaR
      SaLaR 10 September 2020 18: 56
      +6
      even a needle has weight in the field ...))
    2. ccsr
      11 September 2020 13: 07
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      The question is - why didn't the pedal-driven generator fit?

      Because of the size and weight. These were in the American army during World War II, but they are not suitable for special forces units, which is why they use a manual ROM-5m there

      Quote: Operator
      and there is always a regular pedaling "victim" in any team.

      And if the "team" is 2-3 people in total? You simply cannot imagine how long it takes to turn the knob to fully charge the "Belt" - several hours often, depending on the discharge of the battery. And if you are in the tropics, then there is little joy from this, and at -30C too. That is why solar panels had restrictions on their use, and were not a mandatory technique for completing reconnaissance groups. Everything was decided by common sense and conditions in the same Afghanistan. And by and large, according to the original plan, they were not planned to be used for the special forces. The problem was not only in our ambassadorial radio operators, but also in the fact that we helped different countries, such as Angola, Mozambique, Cuba, the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, and a bunch of different countries located south of our borders, and where there were intelligence networks using radio stations R -394K.