"Postponed for an indefinite period": the United States assessed the prospects of the BMP "Kurganets-25"

Russia's latest Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle was to replace the thousands of Soviet infantry fighting vehicles in service with the Russian army. However, the delivery of the BMP has been postponed indefinitely due to the lack of funds for its development, writes Sebastien Roblin for the American magazine Forbes.

In his article, the American journalist writes that the Russian new BMP "Kurganets-25" was supposed to be produced by the BMP manufacturer "Kurganmashzavod" and to replace the existing fleet of infantry fighting vehicles still of the Soviet design of the Russian army, but the funds for the implementation of this ambitious modernization ran out due to Western sanctions and falling oil prices.

It looks like this platform has been postponed indefinitely. The manufacturer failed to provide the tactical and technical characteristics and the organization of mass production. For the foreseeable future, the BMP-3 will remain the main infantry vehicle and weapons platform, the purchases of which will continue

- the article says.

The BMP itself, the author notes, has "a lightweight Armata body and a remote-controlled turret." The vehicle also has "advanced detection devices and powerful anti-tank missiles." In terms of booking, the Kurganets-25 was supposed to be on par with Western models of infantry fighting vehicles. In the future, the Kurganets base platform was supposed to serve as the basis for a whole family of specialized vehicles, including for a lightly armored version of an armored personnel carrier with weapons, as well as for control vehicles, reconnaissance vehicles, armored recovery vehicles, for mortar transporters and anti-tank self-propelled units etc.

The development of this BMP, according to Roblin, faced many problems: the car was criticized for its large size, which led to the alteration of the BMP. Then the production of armored vehicles was postponed from 2017 to 2022.

The author emphasizes that the problems with the Kurganets are typical for Russia, which is hardly moving from the creation of prototypes to the serial production of new generation combat vehicles. Western sanctions, the coronavirus pandemic, which led to significant losses of funds and much more, also played a role in putting the project on the shelf.

However, in this sense, Russia is not a unique country; in the West, many projects have not been implemented for the same reason either. For the third time in two decades, the United States has relaunched a program to develop a new BMP to replace Bradley, spending more than $ 20 billion on this.

In conclusion, the author notes that while Russia has not received the new Kurganets-25 BMP, the troops will continue to receive modernized versions of the BMP-2 and BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles, as well as developments based on them.

Comments

[gatamelata]

BMP3 is still somehow relevant, and it is high time to sell Soviet cardboard boxes to blacks.
And to supply Kurganets to the Indians, and then you look and there will be trochs for himself.

[Grandfather]

Quote: gatamelata

BMP3 is still somehow relevant, and it is high time to sell Soviet cardboard boxes to blacks.
And to supply Kurganets to the Indians, and then you look and there will be trochs for himself.

I don’t know who’s minus, but there’s some logic, the T-90 was drawn on Indian contracts.

[alexmach]

I don’t know who’s minus, but there’s some logic, the T-90 was drawn on Indian contracts.

Times are different - Hindus no longer want to buy products, but only technologies and build on their own. And then there is no technology - the car is rumored to be damp.

[Grandfather]

Quote: alexmach

I don’t know who’s minus, but there’s some logic, the T-90 was drawn on Indian contracts.

Times are different - Hindus no longer want to buy products, but only technologies and build on their own. And then there is no technology - the car is rumored to be damp.

yes, but there are always nuances.

[Oden280]

That you all immediately start to be negative. Normal car, as well as Armata and Boomerang. All this time on state tests, and this business is not quick, the more complicated the technique, the longer. They reveal flaws, childhood diseases. According to the results of the tests, it will be possible to say something.

[alexmach]

That you all immediately start to be negative

I AM? I'm just saying that working out the technique on the Indians and at their expense is no longer an option.

All this time on state tests, and this business is not quick

From 2014 to now on trials? And it's not really clear on which ones, that is, not even on the military ones, for the Kurgan party was not made for military tests.

[Oden280]

The average cycle of state tests for modern technology is from 5 to 10 years, depending on the percentage of novelty in the product. And on the Indians, the technique to work out a bad job. Papuans, that's putting it mildly. But to drive them simplified options for working out mass production and making money is a good thing.

[gatamelata]

Yes, in general, I wrote about this. How Worst Korea was paid off by T80.
So here and now it is necessary to act, the pilot batch should be dumped by the Indians at half price, otherwise while they have graters with the Chinese it is relevant.

[Fibrizio]

And then selling at a loss to carry out warranty repairs of raw equipment from morning to evening in the priest of the world. So so idea. It is easier for the Syrians to donate 15-20 pieces and even better to sell them on credit.
But in general, all 1/2/3 bmps are all this until the first hit of a modern ATGM or a good burst from a 12,7 caliber. In the latter case, if not beaten, they will soak it so that only to repair it.
And I saw the Kurgan live in Moscow. Stood at 3 meters, they were transported on a tractor. Against the background of old BMPs, this is a monster in size. It is more correct to compare it with a tank.

[Fibrizio]

It may not survive, but the crew will have a chance. And then only the caterpillars will remain.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Dead Day

T-90, pulled out on Indian contracts.

This is a completely different story. There is a massively excellent T-72 tank, which was modernized for the Indus. All modern Russian cars are cats in a bag.

[PROXOR]

Lepa 2A4 does not live under the Contest's shot, but you want the BMP to live. The best strategy for an infantry fighting vehicle is not to come under enemy fire.

[Per se.]

Quote: PROXOR

The best strategy for an infantry fighting vehicle is not to come under enemy fire.

Defense can be understood in different ways, but for the majority, especially for the "children of capitalism" and "veterans" of World of Tanks, the semblance of an air-conditioned "Mouse" is the limit of desires. Many mechanized drivers will say that a squat and maneuverable machine will give a better chance of survival than a thick-armored, but overall and clumsy "iron". In the photo for comparison there are scale models of "penny" and "Kurganets".

In general, the best strategy is when the BMP remains a versatile, maneuverable vehicle, which, if it comes under fire, then with dismounted infantry.

If we talk about a "heavy infantry fighting vehicle", then here the best option seems to be its tandem version, where the transport function would be performed by a heavy armored personnel carrier, on a tank base (such as "Akhzarit" or BTR-T, BMO-T), and specialized fire support BMPT (also on a tank base, as the Terminator variant). BMPTs could immediately work with tanks, and heavy armored personnel carriers with assault groups, go in the second line. Reducing the landing to 5-6 people on such an armored personnel carrier would make it possible to more comfortably accommodate the infantry, reduce the size, and minimize losses in the event of the defeat of a vehicle with a landing party on board. A single tank base, for example, of the T-72 / T-90 tank, would make it possible to use both alterations from old stocks and unify vehicles on the well-proven T-90 platform.

[Klingon]

BMP-1/2/3, if not banged out of a 30mm cannon or ATGM, it will live, but until the first hit on a mine or a remote broad-minded landmine. Mine protection 0 + miserable landing of soldiers (crippled doors + no ramp)

[Boris Chernikov]

I will reveal a terrible secret - any BMP, except for heavy ones based on tanks, when blown up by a large land mine or mine, fails with losses among the crew .. the tracked drive seems to provide)

[Per se.]

Quote: Klingon

but before the first collision with a mine or a remote bang-land mine.

Yes, "bang-land" is an argument, but only in the context of attacks by militants on military columns, that is, when the enemy uses partisan tactics, in the zone of anti-terrorist, police operations. For these purposes, the technology was created MRAP (from English - "mine resistant ambush protected", protected from undermining and ambush attacks, mine resistant, ambush protected).

There is no need to dissemble, in their right mind, no one in a war will deliberately plan an offensive across a minefield, and to run into a good face just like that, somewhere out of nothing to do it is difficult. As elsewhere, pluses in one give rise to minuses in another. Enhanced mine protection, in particular the V-shaped bottom, diverts or reduces the force of the explosion, but this also increases the overall height of the combat vehicle, its dimensions, substituting the side projection for the shot.

Therefore, it is necessary to distinguish between both the types of combat and military operations, which is good when protecting military columns from militants on the roads, it is not a fact that it will be a boon for a real war with a full-fledged army.
There is no unkillable equipment, everything is on fire, you can fail on heavy equipment, you can take the city on pickups with machine guns. Everything is well in place, and, most importantly, with the talent of the commanders, the good training of the soldiers.

[PROXOR]

Landing through the back doors is no worse than through the ramp. Let me note that it is advisable to do the disanting through the ramp while standing still, while the doors allow it to be done at low speed. The only drawback of the BMP1 / 2 for the landing is little space. When it was being developed, the SA fighters did not have body armor and unloading.
As for mine protection, let me note that the BMP is following the tank. And the mine will go off on the tank. Immediately I predict your questions regarding patrolling the territory. BMPs are no longer attracted to this. In Syria, it is shown that I use the Tiger and Typhoon cars. And if the Tiger's protection is so-so, then the Typhoon has excellent underbody protection.

[PROXOR]

Well, thank God, the 1st behi was removed from the parts. The latter will be transferred to the Berezhok combat module. The protection of the sides can be solved as on the T-72B3 tank of 2016 with soft fenders. The car will remain sufficiently mobile and still be able to swim. The main thing here is to enable the crew to notice the enemy in time. And this is, first of all, a thermal imaging panorama, and devices for determining laser illumination. It would be nice to equip KAZs, but then the grandmother said in two. They will forget to turn off when the landing is dismounted, KAZ can beat their own.
But a heavy infantry fighting vehicle based on a tank is definitely NECESSARY. The urban battle conditions are as follows. that such a BMP should live. Converting the T-72 / T-90 platform for a heavy infantry fighting vehicle is not an easy task. All the same, a fairly healthy engine is located in the back and dismounting the landing on the engine in urban conditions is not the best option. Ahzarit is a compromise. That dismounting passes through a narrow gap between the bead and the wall of the MTO. A fighter in full gear will be uncomfortable.
In this regard, I am in favor of the T-15 BMP with the Au220M module. Such a vehicle in urban conditions will protect both the landing force and the crew. The 57mm automatic cannon will not leave any chances for barmaley - lovers of sitting in buildings. And fragmentation shots with remote detonation will cause a lot of problems for those who like to shoot from behind the hills and trenches. But the most important thing is again the means of observing the battlefield. Thermal panorama and sight.

[Boris Chernikov]

Are you not embarrassed by the fact that they are not supplied not because it is expensive, but because the test set has not been passed?

[Albert1988]

Quote: gatamelata

And to supply Kurganets to the Indians, and then you look and there will be trochs for himself.

Respected! The American is again fantasizing about "no money - ssssanctions!" and you believe ...
All sorts of Americans said the same about the armats, but once again - there is money, and tests are being completed, and there is already a contract for the first batch ...

[Pereira]

No miracle happened.
Again all the steam went off into the whistle.
Well, who could have known that the US would impose sanctions?

[g1v2]

What does the sanction have to do with it? Kurganets was hooked by BMP3. Too many different techniques have now been invented on its basis. Plus, it is largely unified with the BMD4M, which are supplied to the Airborne Forces in battalion kits and on whose basis a whole line of equipment has also been developed. In this situation, moving to a completely new platform would be a strange decision. The future of Kurganets is really in doubt.

[Glory1974]

Kurganets was hooked by BMP3. Too many different techniques have now been invented on its basis.

The BMP-3 is a good car, but for its time. Now it is not so relevant, so Kurganets is needed. And there is no it for financial reasons as well.

[venik]

Quote: glory1974

therefore Kurganets is needed. And there is no it for financial reasons as well.

7 ======
To "Kurganets" - a number of questions:
- Very high cost (compared to BMP-3);
- Huge dimensions (including height). The total height is almost 3.2 meters (!!!) or 3 meters on the roof of the tower. That, along with the absence of rifle embrasures and an automatic grenade launcher, significantly increases the risk of damage to the side projection;
- Relatively weak armament (compared to the same BMP-3), which is difficult to significantly enhance (unlike the BMP-3, where the installation of ATGM "Kornet" or "Attack / Shtupm" is already planned);
- An incomprehensible concept of application, in the presence of light BMP-2M and BMP-3 and heavy BMP T-15 on the Armata platform. The latter, by the way, with the same armament, has a much more powerful anti-cannon defense.
All this makes the prospects of "Kurganets" rather "vague" ..... Although the Moscow Region is still not going to completely abandon this topic.

[Boris Chernikov]

and then Dragoon crept up .. for me personally I need to look at the performance characteristics and the price .. if it is easier to put KAZ on the Dragun with the same protection .. what is the point of suffering? 3 on steel ...

[PROXOR]

KAZ on BMP is dangerous! She can ditch the landing.

[Boris Chernikov]

it all depends on the tactics of use .. and KAZ can always be turned off, but getting a rocket on the march is not good

[PROXOR]

I would still, more converge on the means of radiation detection and a system for setting up a dense smoke screen.
KAZ can be turned off, but what if the vehicle commander forgets to do it?

[Boris Chernikov]

what if a soldier drops a grenade inside the BMP?

[Grandfather]

Quote: g1v2

What does the sanction have to do with it? Kurganets was hooked by BMP3. Too many different techniques have now been invented on its basis.

From the statement of the production worker:
The project "Kurganets-25" turned out to be unsuccessful, a new machine is needed, which means that the terms of reference for its development. But who should make it is not clear.


At the same time, it isn’t noted what exactly makes Kurganets-25 an unsuccessful project. Or who...

The working group agreed that it was necessary to immediately send an appeal to the cabinet of ministers of the Russian Federation in order to clarify the situation with the platform for the BMP. It was noted that it is necessary to determine whether the enterprise will be involved in the production of a completely new, “breakthrough” model, or will concentrate on upgrading the existing platform.

Against this background, there are obvious problems with the Kurganmashzavod itself, which actually turned out to be bankrupt. The members of the working group sent an appeal to the Kurgan Oblast Duma with a request to take the situation under control and not to give the negative processes related to the enterprise aggravate.
Used https://topwar.ru/122250-proekt-kurganec-25-okazalsya-neudachnym.html

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Dead Day

At the same time, it is not noted what exactly makes Kurganets-25 an unsuccessful project.

A high percentage of foreign equipment, after the 2014 sanctions there is no access to them. The car needs to be remodeled.

[ultra]

What is the% of foreign equipment in this BMP?

[Boris Chernikov]

you would have opened an article for the zero days ... bankruptcy has long been passed and the plant is working

[Boris Chernikov]

rather, an attempt to drive over the ears and get new finances ... well, but what..bmp-3 and so they take, and getting new R&D is always nice ... straight away for 10 years work and no one brains ... let them bring to mind Kurganets or Dragoon to the declared performance characteristics

[Albert1988]

Quote: g1v2

What does the sanction have to do with it? Kurganets was hooked by BMP3.

Rather, you wanted to say that Kurganmashzavod, as a result of the actions of the "competent and skillful" of the previous leadership, was able to produce only old models of equipment in very small batches, as a result of which it failed all state orders? And the fact that the development and testing of the speech did not go at all ...
Only now he was reanimated ...

[Quadro]

Quote: Pereira

No miracle happened.
Again all the steam went off into the whistle.
Well, who could have known that the US would impose sanctions?

Amer popped his fantasies, and you are happy to repeat this rotten crap like parrots. The machine is being tested, it is not in service, not because it is expensive, but because it is raw.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Damn it, people live ...
One from America itself, through the entire thickness of the Earth, foresees how, what and who is to blame in Russia. Others, without getting up from what, maybe not even closing the door to ventilate, chop the truth-womb, open their eyes, wipe their glasses and so on.
And they all know! And that the boxes, and that the whistle, and that nothing will work, and no, and put off ...
Eh! ... (and immediately drank)

[Trapp1st]

Damn it, people live ... One already from America itself, through the entire thickness of the Earth, foresees how, what and who is to blame in Russia.

Sometimes you do not need to see through the thickness of the earth, you just need to go to the beach in Miami and look.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Trapp1st

Sometimes you do not need to see through the thickness of the earth, you just need to go to the beach in Miami and look.

How is the weather in Miami, is the water warm?
You live there, as I understand it?

[Trapp1st]

How is the weather in Miami, is the water warm?

Air +25, water +30, half past four in the morning.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Trapp1st

Air +24, water +30, half past four in the morning.

I myself can look in googleyandex. Unshchitovo.

[Trapp1st]

I myself can look in googleyandex.

So what are the weird questions you ask? I thought you need help, but it turns out that you yourself can look for information.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Trapp1st

So what are the weird questions you ask? I thought you need help, but it turns out that you yourself can look for information.

I thought you lived in Miami. First hand info, so to speak. And it turns out that there it is.

[Trapp1st]

I thought you lived in Miami. And it turns out that there it is.

I do not need to run with a mercury thermometer, the 21st century is outside, so that. The information is open, we have already found out, you know how to use Google, you can check the information. Do not want to continue, flood further.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Eh! ... (and immediately drank)

on Tuesday ? Wow...

[rocket757]

Russia's latest Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle was to replace the thousands of Soviet infantry fighting vehicles in service with the Russian army.

Reasoning is useless, what expediency is there ... no one can explain this, Schaub has become convincing for everyone.

[unhappy]

I believe a "heavy" infantry fighting vehicle as part of a tactical group will withstand attacks from the enemy's "light" infantry fighting vehicles and confidently destroy any armored vehicles with their missiles. Universal car.

[rocket757]

This is only MILITARY FUNCTIONALITY! And there, such a train of incomprehensible stretches,

[unhappy]

Experience shows that the infantry does not attack without the support of armored vehicles, and these should be vehicles with maximum protection - tanks or heavy infantry fighting vehicles. In the west, they have already doubted the uselessness and rejection of tanks. Let's see ...

[postum]

And that a "light" BMP cannot have missiles that can destroy a "heavy" BMP

[unhappy]

Sorry, I'm not talking about desert fighting. Not right.
Battles with limited visibility, urban development and the like ... The infantry is standing, but we must advance.

[unhappy]

Long ago I read about the Arab-Israeli war (episode).
Breakthrough, light AMX tanks went ahead and stumbled upon a barrier - they could not penetrate it and had to wait for the approach of "normal" tanks, which solved the task.

[postum]

So here is not an infantry fighting vehicle, but a tank is needed to advance

[jeka424]

stability

[Ascold1901]

Even if this machine does not go into series production, the developments will be used in the next one. Remember the story of the T-43, T34-85 and T-44.

[Aag]

Quote: Ascold1901

Even if this machine does not go into series production, the developments will be used in the next one. Remember the story of the T-43, T34-85 and T-44.

Does it make it difficult to explain? By what criterion were these machines united?

[Ascold1901]

Because many units, parts, etc., developed and modified during the creation of the T-43, were then used on the T34-85 (the most important was the tower). The story with the T-44 is the same. I recommend M.N. Svirin's "Stalin's Armor Shield". This book is easy to read (for documentary).

[Aag]

Quote: Ascold1901

Because many units, parts, etc., developed and modified during the creation of the T-43, were then used on the T34-85 (the most important was the tower). The story with the T-44 is the same. I recommend M.N. Svirin's "Stalin's Armor Shield". This book is easy to read (for documentary).

Thanks for the recommendation.
I'm afraid only the goal-setting of the current creators of VT is different ...

[Zaurbek]

BMP-3 is not the worst option. Desirable in a new interpretation, with anterior MTO.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Zaurbek

BMP-3 is not the worst option. Desirable in a new interpretation, with anterior MTO.

This already exists - the dragoon is called, there is only one question - it is necessary to revive the Kurgan plant, otherwise it was almost unable to produce even the "old" BMP-3 ...

[asura]

Kurganets also seems to have fallen victim to the principle of "shove in the unpushable." It is impossible for the time being to combine normal armor and buoyancy on modern materials. Until they give up providing buoyancy, a normally protected BMP cannot be made. And if someone has a question, how can we swim across rivers, then the answer is simple - finally make a simple modern remake of MTLB and mount the necessary equipment on it. So you will have buoyancy, and the infantry should finally get another vehicle with normal armor.

[Artemiy_2]

What a crazy article. Some kind of incomprehensible stream of consciousness

[postum]

Yes there will be no Kurganets, it is not for nothing that at the exhibition Manul was shown, which in appearance is Kurganets, with the same combat module

[bars1]

Quote: Artemiy_2

What a crazy article. Some kind of incomprehensible stream of consciousness

The article is based on the statement of the renowned military expert Murakhovsky on Courage He appears there under the nickname vim... He writes there that he talked at Army 2020 with representatives of the GABTU and they told him what was highlighted in the article under discussion in italics.

[Artemiy_2]

Yes, only Murakhovsky spoke only of those. problems. Which is quite normal. Just look at American projects
And the author of the article has heaped up so much nonsense. Starting with the fact that Kurgan uses the hull from the armata to oil prices. On VO they like to drag garbage yellow articles from China and the USA

[Aag]

Quote: Artemiy_2

Yes, only Murakhovsky spoke only of those. problems. Which is quite normal. Just look at American projects
And the author of the article has heaped up so much nonsense. Starting with the fact that Kurgan uses the hull from the armata to oil prices. On VO they like to drag garbage yellow articles from China and the USA

.
"... It's enough to look at American projects ..."
Don't you find that the goals and objectives are different?
"... Kurgan uses a hull from armata to oil prices ..."
Even in spite of grammar, transcription ... What is the primary source for you? Where do you get the "truth of life"? No offense, please, to understand the situation, if, of course, dialogue is interesting.

[tagil]

It's funny, was Sebastien Roblen personally informed about the suspension of Kurganets? Although he writes for the American "penguins", and for them it is like a balm to their hearts. In general, the wet dreams of a "comrade" and nothing more.

[Jack O'Neill]

It's time to change these graves for bites.

[Izotovp]

The division of the infantry into 3 classes is ripe: light infantry (landing, special forces, reconnaissance) on the BMD, heavy infantry (assault, obstacles) at the Armata base and the main, medium infantry at Kurganets and Boomerang.

[steelmaker]

As Serdyukov appeared in the army, so immediately there was no money for modern equipment. "Kurganets" is the joy of an infantryman !!