Military Review

In the Russian Federation, the concept of a tank with an electrothermochemical gun "to replace" the T-14 "Armata" is being developed

136

It is reported about a completely new development carried out by specialists of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in the development of armored vehicles. It is about an innovative concept “tank future ", which is called two-link.


This is reported by the information service TASS with reference to the 38th NII BTVT (Research and Testing Institute of Armored Weapons and Equipment.

It is noted that a tank with an innovative concept should eventually replace the "Armata". This statement drew criticism from skeptics. In particular, it is said that it is necessary first to "bring to mind" the T-14 tank and other means of armored vehicles on the Armata platform, and only then think about its replacement in the future. However, such statements can be classified as strange, because the research institutes of the Ministry of Defense should be engaged in creating promising concepts, including in the direction of the development of armored vehicles, regardless of the stage at which the implementation of previous weapons developments is.

The NII BTVT says that the T-14 "Armata" tank will remain effective until about the middle of the 2040st century (until the XNUMXs), but at the moment it is necessary to work on new versions of armored vehicles for the Russian armed forces.

The new combat vehicle, as noted, is considered as a variant of the "two-link articulated structure". Speaking about the meaning of the concept, the staff of the institute report that in the front combat module there will be 3 crew members in a special armored capsule, in the middle of the combat module there will be an uninhabited tower with an electrothermochemical cannon and an automatic loader. The second link of the platform is a multi-fuel engine with a capacity of about 3 thousand hp. It is also planned to deploy drones (both airborne and ground) there.

It is emphasized that the electrochemical gun will work with ammunition not based on powder charges, but on the basis of other chemical compositions. The ignition of such compositions will be carried out by an electric discharge.

Among other things, the innovative armored vehicles will be armed with vertical take-off missiles with a target range of up to 12 km.
136 comments
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  1. Whatislove
    Whatislove 25 August 2020 05: 56 New
    -48
    Everything is as usual. Even Armata was not accepted into service, and we are already creating "For Replacement" ...
    1. MBRSS
      MBRSS 25 August 2020 07: 05 New
      -45
      Not surprising. We are already creating a 6th generation fighter and space. ship to replace the Federation. This is the trend now :)
      1. URAL72
        URAL72 25 August 2020 07: 16 New
        87
        You were clearly indicated in the article - Armata is being finalized by the design bureau and the plant, and the research institutes are obliged (!!!) to work for the future. Read the article and not the title, maybe you will pass for the smart ones.
        1. Mitroha
          Mitroha 25 August 2020 07: 41 New
          41
          Many here confuse the development process and the presentation of this action in the media. Development, like research, should never stop. How do you imagine scientists and developers on indefinite leave? So the cadres grow in a constant mode of brain work, learning from their elders and giving out their own ideas with an "unclouded" look.
          But the media should adhere to a cold calculation and submit material not in the form of "scandals, intrigue, investigation", but strictly following the news, this, incidentally, also applies to our defense officials.
          So there is no need to save money on the development and study of new forms of weapons and equipment, but it would be highly desirable to limit "balabols" from the media and "managers".
          1. Temples
            Temples 25 August 2020 07: 54 New
            -5
            Quote: Mitroha
            The media, on the other hand, must adhere to cold calculation

            This, my friend, is nonsense,
            The media is business.
            It is scandals, intrigues, investigations that interest the reader.

            And there is specialized literature for "cold calculation". Some kind of official use, other public.

            Where would you drink if not the media that you hai? wink

            Is that you about yourself?
            Quote: Mitroha
            but it would be highly desirable to restrict "balabols" from the media and "managers".
            wassat
            1. Genry
              Genry 25 August 2020 08: 05 New
              +6
              Quote: Temples
              Where would you drink if not the media that you hai?

              There is no need to remind the oligarchs about prostitutes on the salary.
            2. Mitroha
              Mitroha 25 August 2020 11: 01 New
              +5
              Quote: Temples

              This, my friend, is nonsense,
              The media is business.
              It is scandals, intrigues, investigations that interest the reader.

              There are certain limits and they must be observed. Usually, after several trials for lies or unverified information, with good fines, the desire to bear the gag comes to naught. You just need to make it a strategy.

              Quote: Temples
              Wherever you drink, eat ...
              .... Are you talking about yourself?

              You poke your finger in different places, and poking a stranger is a sign of a weak mind and lack of upbringing.
              hi
          2. Michael67
            Michael67 25 August 2020 19: 17 New
            -2
            It's a pity that little is said about the new physical principles in weapons. It is, of course, understandable - secrecy and all that ... Shuttle Atlantis over Siberia has died out because of our new physical principles? That would be more about this and in more detail.
            1. Romario_Argo
              Romario_Argo 25 August 2020 20: 21 New
              0
              It's a pity about new physical principles in armaments they say little

              a tank gun is the same smoothbore for conventional BOPS and ATGM
              + an electrothermochemical projectile will appear which itself creates a current charge to power the railgun of the gun barrel and drives itself wassat
              Everything Russian is simply (!)
              1. sen
                sen 26 August 2020 04: 18 New
                +1
                an electrothermochemical projectile will appear, which itself creates a current charge to power the railgun of the gun barrel

                Weapons built on electrothermochemical technology are generally similar to traditional barreled weapons, but with some differences. The main thing is the principle of formation of gases for throwing a projectile. In ETH weapons, it is proposed to use not traditional gunpowder, but new special compositions. In addition, instead of the usual primer-igniter, the projectile must be equipped with a special igniting device (for example, as in the Coalition's howitzer), with the help of which the maximum energy output is achieved.
                https://topwar.ru/86123-proekt-elektrotermohimicheskoy-pushki-60-mm-rapid-fire-et-gun-ssha.html
        2. Shurik70
          Shurik70 25 August 2020 07: 42 New
          +9
          Actually, back in the 80s, I read about "a promising cannon that uses a liquid binary explosive instead of gunpowder." It was proposed to supply an explosive mixture of two substances, separately safe, instead of gunpowder. The implication was that this would allow getting rid of the cartridge case, taking more ammunition, increasing the life of the gun and regulating the amount of explosives. So the idea is old.
          Only so far it has not been implemented by anyone.
          1. Temples
            Temples 25 August 2020 08: 06 New
            -3
            Quote: Shurik70
            this will get rid of the sleeve

            And how to fight the slime?

            Now you can play football with ammunition.
            And in your case, to wear cans? And the main thing is not to mix it by accident. In war, not laboratory conditions.

            How about feeding these components in the tank? What if a leak? It will blow, and the enemy is not needed.

            Someone invents, and the military lowers these thoughts to the ground.
            The main thing is that the military commanders do not play with spillikins. They remembered that war is dirt, dust, slush, hurricane, earthquake and frost in one bottle.
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 25 August 2020 08: 59 New
              +7
              Quote: Temples
              And how to fight the slime?

              Now you can play football with ammunition.
              And in your case, to wear cans? And the main thing is not to mix it by accident. In war, not laboratory conditions.

              How about feeding these components in the tank? What if a leak? It will blow, and the enemy is not needed.

              The man wrote you a binary charge. Two completely safe substances are mixed with explosives.
              1. Shurik70
                Shurik70 25 August 2020 15: 55 New
                0
                Quote: Temples
                Quote: Shurik70
                this will get rid of the sleeve

                And how to fight the slime?
                Now you can play football with ammunition

                Diesel fuel, gasoline, kerosene - all this is liquid, the leak threatens with big (sometimes fatal) problems, which does not prevent it from being successfully used in military equipment.
                So is the binary liquid explosive. Tanks will be refueled along with ammunition.
            2. Piramidon
              Piramidon 25 August 2020 10: 07 New
              +4
              Quote: Temples
              How about feeding these components in the tank? What if a leak? It will blow, and the enemy is not needed.

              Do you already know how this will all work? belay
          2. garri-lin
            garri-lin 25 August 2020 10: 58 New
            +3
            The main problem is obturation of gases in the breech.
        3. 113262a
          113262a 25 August 2020 08: 34 New
          +7
          Even in my term 83-85, officers told me that at the Kazan School they tested (and at Kubinka too) a two-link reckless (with an uninhabited) tank, the cadets were driven to the tactical field to create IMPASSABLE obstacles for it. That is, in the early 80s, this machine was already in hardware.
        4. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 25 August 2020 09: 54 New
          -9
          Quote: URAL72
          You were clearly indicated in the article, - Armata is being finalized by the KB and the plant, and Research institutes are obliged (!!!) to work for the future... Read the article and not the title, maybe you will pass for the smart ones.

          Listen, pro-Kremlin sage!
          NII BTVT says that the T-14 "Armata" tank will remain effective until about the middle of the XXI century (until the 2040s)

          Two doubts tear me apart:
          First. Will I live to 2040 to prove the truth of these words ... repeat
          Second. Will the completion of the T-14 "Armata" be completed by the 2040s ... belay
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 25 August 2020 10: 10 New
            +6
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Will I live to 2040 to prove the truth of these words ...

            The designers have no other concern than thinking about how to finish all development before your death.
      2. Cottodraton
        Cottodraton 27 August 2020 06: 06 New
        0
        Personally, you, as well as the commentator above, create only numeric letters. So relax and take it easy
    2. Svetlana
      Svetlana 25 August 2020 07: 45 New
      11
      Everything is as usual. Even Armata was not accepted into service, and we are already creating "For Replacement" ...

      The C500 has yet to be adopted, but rest assured that the developers are already working on the C600 concepts.
      Only now they thresh with tongues less.
      1. Temples
        Temples 25 August 2020 08: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: Svetlana
        are already working on the C600 concepts.

        VVZh announced the C700 a long time ago wink
        1. Svetlana
          Svetlana 25 August 2020 08: 13 New
          +1
          Yes, it was. On show with Solovyov
    3. bar
      bar 25 August 2020 07: 56 New
      +6
      Even Armata was not accepted into service, but we are already creating "To replace" ...

      What's the connection? They are adopted by some, and replaced by others. The design thought should not stop, there should always be groundwork for the future. This is precisely how the Soviet and Russian design schools differ from the same American one, where each new problem begins to be solved from scratch by new performers.
    4. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 25 August 2020 11: 58 New
      +1
      In particular, it is said that it is necessary to "bring to mind" the T-14 tank and other armored vehicles on the Armata platform first, and only then think about its replacement in the future.
      Why listen to sound criticism? Boring.
      When the cat has nothing to do ........
    5. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 25 August 2020 14: 41 New
      0
      That's good, no need to repeat the mistakes of the past, they riveted 20 thousand cans before the Second World War, but it turned out that in vain, less is better.
  2. Polymer
    Polymer 25 August 2020 06: 00 New
    0
    ... regardless of the stage at which the implementation of previous weapons developments is.

    Well, no, there must be a dependence here. In order not to repeat the mistakes identified during operation, at least.
    It is emphasized that the electrochemical gun will work with ammunition not based on powder charges, but on the basis of other chemical compositions. The ignition of such compositions will be carried out by an electric discharge.

    At the beginning there is an "electrothermochemical gun". Is it so that the term is picky?
    That gunpowder, that "other chemical compounds" - all these are explosives, of which there are still a great many, so it is not entirely clear what is the innovation here. Well, electric detonation ... like, too, is not news.
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 25 August 2020 07: 40 New
      +3
      Quote: Polymer
      ... regardless of the stage at which the implementation of previous weapons developments is.

      Well, no, there must be a dependence here. In order not to repeat the mistakes identified during operation, at least.
      It is emphasized that the electrochemical gun will work with ammunition not based on powder charges, but on the basis of other chemical compositions. The ignition of such compositions will be carried out by an electric discharge.

      At the beginning there is an "electrothermochemical gun". Is it so that the term is picky?
      That gunpowder, that "other chemical compounds" - all these are explosives, of which there are still a great many, so it is not entirely clear what is the innovation here. Well, electric detonation ... like, too, is not news.

      You were clearly told "no matter at what stage ...", but not regardless of the results! It is necessary not only to read, but to understand the meaning of what is written.
      1. Polymer
        Polymer 25 August 2020 07: 46 New
        -4
        Quote: 1976AG
        It is necessary not only to read, but to understand the meaning of what is written.

        Really?! belay
        And the test results of previous developments do not depend on the stage? I am not saying that designers should not think about the future of weapons at all, but first, nevertheless, it is necessary to bring to mind the existing developments.
        1. 1976AG
          1976AG 25 August 2020 09: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: Polymer
          Quote: 1976AG
          It is necessary not only to read, but to understand the meaning of what is written.

          Really?! belay
          And the test results of previous developments do not depend on the stage? I am not saying that designers should not think about the future of weapons at all, but first, nevertheless, it is necessary to bring to mind the existing developments.

          I wrote to you, it doesn't say that regardless of the results! In general, the development of promising weapons models ALWAYS begins BEFORE the work on their predecessors is completed. And that's what all developers do. Because this process is slow and you can lag behind competitors (enemy).
        2. Souchastnik
          Souchastnik 25 August 2020 12: 59 New
          +2
          it is necessary to bring to mind the existing developments.

          There are situations when samples (ideas) become obsolete before being implemented (in iron).
          If a new, more promising one is found, it is not necessary to spend money on something good, but less effective.
          1. Polymer
            Polymer 25 August 2020 13: 55 New
            -2
            Quote: Souchastnik
            maybe good, but less effective.

            At the same time, neither one nor the other has been tested by practice. Then how do you know which is more effective? The separation of theory from practice is a dangerous disease of science.
            1. Souchastnik
              Souchastnik 25 August 2020 15: 09 New
              +1
              The separation of theory from practice is a dangerous disease of science.

              What do you consider practice?
              All samples are repeatedly checked during the tests: they shake, bump, freeze, watered, sprinkled, accumulate hours and mileage. They shoot in, break down with exorbitant loads. And only then are they accepted (or not) for service (supply). I consider this a practice.
              If you are talking about real military operations, then the winner in battle is not the one with the most perfect technique, but the one who knows all the pros and cons of weapons and skillfully uses them. And most importantly, he is ready to die for a just cause.
              But I would not like it to come to this, it is better to change devices on biathlons and darts.
              1. Polymer
                Polymer 25 August 2020 16: 30 New
                -1
                Quote: Souchastnik
                What do you consider practice?

                At the very least, operation in the troops, even without a database. Nobody cancels factory / field tests, but they are not able to reveal all "childhood diseases".
                Quote: Souchastnik
                in battle, the winner is not the one who has more perfect technique, but the one who knows all the pros and cons of weapons and skillfully uses them.

                Well, how can I say ... put the T-34 against the "Leopard" - who will win? In a "duel" battle, options are still possible, but if we are talking about a clash of armies, then the result is unambiguous.
                And it is possible to compensate for the shortcomings of technology by motivating the soldiers, but not for long.
                1. Souchastnik
                  Souchastnik 27 August 2020 09: 20 New
                  0
                  Let's not lead to the absurdity of the "musket against Kalashnikov" type.
                  Although in certain situations you can win with a musket if you don't give up right away.
                  1. Polymer
                    Polymer 27 August 2020 09: 43 New
                    0
                    Quote: Souchastnik
                    Let's not lead to the absurdity of the "musket against Kalashnikov" type.

                    This example also works. And there is no absurdity here. Weapon superiority has always mattered. The Indians over there were very motivated, knew the area perfectly and skillfully used their knowledge. But almost all were exterminated, since own they had no firearms.
    2. vadimtt
      vadimtt 25 August 2020 09: 06 New
      +3
      About electrothermochemical. There, not only the explosive creates temperature and pressure, but also the electric discharge itself. Moreover, the discharge also programs the pressure rise curve, which will allow not to break the breech and accelerate the projectile to high speeds (according to estimates, up to 3-7 km / s, which is unattainable with any gunpowder). True, the main problem - the resource of the barrel at elevated temperature and pressure - does not go anywhere.
      1. Polymer
        Polymer 25 August 2020 14: 04 New
        0
        Quote: vadimtt
        the discharge also programs the pressure rise curve

        The idea is interesting. Only getting two discharges of the same parameters is a problem even in laboratory conditions. Well, if someone succeeds, I will gladly recognize the new genius. But the skeptic strongly doubts me.
        If we talk about some "new physical principles", then most likely the effect of ball lightning should be used, for example. Has someone already thoroughly studied it and knows how to manage it? Again this skeptic ...
        1. vadimtt
          vadimtt 25 August 2020 14: 51 New
          0
          You know, a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since the days of controlled gas spark gaps. Already solid-state ones have appeared (for example, SOS diodes, with a picosecond front). A cascade of 3-4 inductive storage devices of different capacities is installed and discharged to the chamber in the required sequence. It is more difficult with the chamber - cermets and a network of electrodes that can withstand non-childish thermal and mechanical loads.
          1. Polymer
            Polymer 25 August 2020 15: 00 New
            0
            Are you talking about the start / end of the discharge or the arc parameters? With a cascade, it is clear - this is exactly the arc ignition sequence. But breaking it already introduces chaos - inertial processes. And, as far as I know, keys that can collapse a discharge in a very short time have not yet been invented.
            1. vadimtt
              vadimtt 26 August 2020 15: 29 New
              0
              We are talking about the beginning, of course, the end is not important. First, we consistently boost combustion (so as not to explode), supplying more and more energy to the already existing discharge, and when the projectile is about in the middle of the barrel is the most powerful, which no longer accelerates combustion, but raises the temperature of the existing gases. You don't need to cut anything off, you just need to quickly switch large currents and voltages.
              1. Polymer
                Polymer 26 August 2020 19: 55 New
                0
                Quote: vadimtt
                We are talking about the beginning, of course, the end is not important.

                In a closed system, the decay process is also important, probably. Undesirable side effects may occur.
                Quote: vadimtt
                which no longer accelerates combustion, but raises the temperature of already existing gases.

                Why raise it? To increase the pressure or decrease the barrel resource?
                1. vadimtt
                  vadimtt 27 August 2020 08: 40 New
                  0
                  Attenuation is not important, by this moment the system is already open, the projectile flew away laughing
                  And raise the temperature to maintain pressure and continue to accelerate the projectile.
  3. Roman 57 rus
    Roman 57 rus 25 August 2020 06: 04 New
    +4
    Maybe two 1500 hp engines are better (one per module) ?? What weight will be, 100 tons ??
  4. Graz
    Graz 25 August 2020 06: 04 New
    -13
    they began to engage in projecting,
    first you need to set up the production of armature in the normal number of troops and decide with the installation of 152mm in this tank
    1. Kart
      Kart 25 August 2020 08: 57 New
      +2
      Developers and those who introduce into production are different people. They have different tasks.
      1. Graz
        Graz 25 August 2020 09: 19 New
        -2
        we know all this here are examples of Lebedenko's tank (they built it in metal, they spent a lot of money, and in the end they spent a lot of money), Mendeleev's tank (it's good that the project was immediately hacked to death), but they spent a lot of money on the T-35, SMK, T100,
        tank cruiser Osokina, land cruiser Davletov., and there were such projects during the late USSR, all this was deliberate projection, waste of public finances and time
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 25 August 2020 10: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Graz
      they began to engage in projecting,
      first you need to establish the release of armature in the normal number of troops

      And stop all research and prospective work, overclock the design bureau? And what does research have to do with setting up serial production?
  5. Coconut
    Coconut 25 August 2020 06: 09 New
    -7
    At the NII BTVT they say that the T-14 "Armata" tank will remain effective until about the middle of the XXI century (until the 2040s)

    I think that by the middle of the 21st century, tanks will not be relevant at all ... lol
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 25 August 2020 07: 32 New
      +7
      So already in the 50s they talked about the 80-90s, but the tanks did not go anywhere.
  6. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 25 August 2020 06: 13 New
    +2
    let's call him "Kuzkina's mother"
    1. PN
      PN 25 August 2020 06: 25 New
      +3
      Son of Kuzma))) All the same, tank is a masculine word.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 25 August 2020 06: 36 New
      -6
      Quote: Angelo Provolone
      let's call him "Kuzkina's mother"

      Then - "Kuzin's stepson" ... Yes, yes, that very "Kuzi", which was beaten with cranes, set on fire with sparks from welding, modernized, modernized, but never modernized ... lol
  7. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 25 August 2020 06: 14 New
    -6
    Once again, the specialists fell into the hands of Soviet developments. Now they will be running around with this idea.
    1. bar
      bar 25 August 2020 07: 58 New
      +3
      Once again, the specialists fell into the hands of Soviet developments.

      Do you think that everything Soviet should be forgotten as a nightmare and start from scratch?
      1. 7,62h54
        7,62h54 25 August 2020 08: 45 New
        -1
        Do not forget, but take into account the experience and conclusions. Imagine a two-link Armata. Are these two running gear, and the transmission from the engine to the second link? And the price of this toy? And if this structure is on the battlefield, what will happen to it? How long will she live? Perhaps as an SPG, for shooting from closed positions, or for the tundra in the Arctic. In Soviet times, they drew conclusions, and decided that the design was not reliable.
        1. KAVBER
          KAVBER 25 August 2020 09: 27 New
          -2
          Now a new technological turn, something that was not reliable in the past, now it may well be ogogo, as an example, the concept of a flying wing is very unreliable in the mid-40s, but now it is going with a bang. Although a tank of 2 links is not very clear to me why. The future of tanks is the goose tank.
          1. 7,62h54
            7,62h54 25 August 2020 10: 14 New
            0
            It's not about the reliability of the hardware itself. The concept of a two-link battle tank itself has no chance of survival. Here are three sitting in a capsule in one link, the engine is in the other. They broke the hitch, and that's it, they will smoke bamboo.
  8. Thrifty
    Thrifty 25 August 2020 06: 15 New
    -13
    You can not defeat corruption - lead it! T14 crude, they promise to take it into service literally tomorrow for many years! And here, on you, they are already preparing a replacement for him! The only substitute for the T14 can now be the T95, which is better than the Armata by all parameters!
    1. PN
      PN 25 August 2020 06: 33 New
      11
      Trimming is a matter of several engineers who must work in tandem with the military. Some chase him into the tail and into the mane, give out remarks, others adjust with a "file". And let the rest of the design bureau be engaged in the development of new technology.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 25 August 2020 06: 39 New
      -14
      Quote: Thrifty
      And here, on you, they are already preparing a replacement for him!

      You see, dear! Children and other undergrowths have grown up. They, too, should be allowed to "saw" pieces of the budget pie.
      Get out, Tolik! As he began to saw in the 90s (he sawed all state property, all the energy), he continues to invent nano-bicycles ...
      1. Kart
        Kart 25 August 2020 08: 59 New
        +3
        Is the computer powered by a pedal generator?
  9. Errr
    Errr 25 August 2020 06: 18 New
    +5
    Quite unexpectedly for myself, he fell into the history of the national "shooter" and fell near the "machine gun on kerosene". laughing Maybe just this miracle of engineering is the founder of a new direction in the development of tank guns? whatAnd, in fact, the topic of using liquid propellants (LMP) for a shot is already quite bearded ...
    1. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 25 August 2020 06: 32 New
      -5
      Quote: Herrr
      Maybe just this miracle of engineering thought is the founder of a new direction in the development of tank guns?

      something like this will look like a light tank division model 2049
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 25 August 2020 07: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Herrr
      the topic of using liquid propellants (LMW) for a shot is already quite bearded ...

      Why confuse a "fork with a bottle"? ETH cannon and weapons "on ZhMV" - these can be different topics! Though.... what they can be combined ... but this is not necessary!
  10. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 25 August 2020 06: 25 New
    -2
    This statement drew criticism from skeptics
    I guess in this case I'm a skeptic. The listed innovations are vague and illusory, the concept of a two-link system, in general, is controversial - "Churchill crocodile" is an example of this.
    In general, at this stage, a tricky title and ... And that's it!
    1. PN
      PN 25 August 2020 06: 39 New
      +1
      But there is Shell-SA. It may not be a tank, but still ...
    2. prodi
      prodi 25 August 2020 07: 38 New
      0
      but in my opinion, the idea of ​​a two-link is very good, only this is not a concept of a tank, it will remain in its usual form, but some kind of universal BMP. One module for the crew and a hybrid power plant with minimal armament, the second - with an electric motor and a unified connection unit for various kinds of functionality: a bus, a howitzer, a mortar, etc.
      The problem of a quick turn on the spot is in many ways far-fetched, you can move back rather quickly, but the passability will definitely improve
    3. minus
      minus 25 August 2020 08: 05 New
      -4
      Just another warmth I saw a toy model in the store, I liked it)))) We decided to promote and file it on this)))
  11. Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 25 August 2020 06: 26 New
    +8
    It is noted that a tank with an innovative concept should eventually replace the "Armata". This statement drew criticism from skeptics. In particular, it is said that it is necessary first to "bring to mind" the T-14 tank and other means of armored vehicles on the Armata platform, and only then think about its replacement in the future.
    However, such statements can be classified as strange, because the research institutes of the Ministry of Defense should be engaged in creating promising concepts, including in the direction of the development of armored vehicles, regardless of the stage at which the implementation of previous weapons developments is.


    The author of the note dedicated a whole explanatory paragraph to all the groaning ones. But those are probably beyond the title and the first two or three sentences do not dive. Since, apparently, "there are too many letters" and their brains, busy with thoughts about different things, "niasilili".
    1. Kart
      Kart 25 August 2020 09: 02 New
      +3
      Their task is different - to shout about the "people" and the authorities. "
      So they pull the owl onto the globe.
      Moreover, these same screamers and mourners in other topics water us for the lack of new developments (but in the USA, it’s another matter ... Elon Musk).
  12. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 25 August 2020 06: 31 New
    -6
    ...after all research institutes of the Ministry of Defense themes and must deal that create perspective concepts, including in the direction of the development of armored vehicles, regardless of the stage at which the implementation of previous weapons developments is.

    What an interesting remark ... Only here is one hitch: real, folk (collected in the form of taxes and levies) money goes under all these fantasies ... belay
    You can then simply ask:
    "WHO IN MO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THE INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION OF THAT OR OTHER INNOVATIVE EQUIPMENT?"
    So you can spend your whole life doing the creation of promising (expensive) developments and projects and, at the end, have a dozen "ceremonial samples". Or are we in money, "as in a litter of Roemsi"? We don’t know where to pour billions: for “state employees” or “pensioners who do not want to die”? belay
    1. bar
      bar 25 August 2020 08: 07 New
      +5
      You can then simply ask:
      "WHO IN MO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THE INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION OF THAT OR OTHER INNOVATIVE EQUIPMENT?"

      Why are these hysterics in big letters? If I had calmed down and thought a little, I myself would have realized that before "making decisions on the production of this or that innovative technology" in the Ministry of Defense they should at least know what variants of this technology are in principle possible, and with what about the performance characteristics. And how can the Ministry of Defense know this, if not from designers and developers working for the long term and creating this very groundwork?
    2. vadimtt
      vadimtt 25 August 2020 09: 14 New
      +4
      With such an approach like yours, Yuri Vasilyevich, fundamental science is only under the knife, because there is zero sense from it laughing
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 25 August 2020 09: 38 New
        0
        Quote: vadimtt
        With an approach like yours,

        Here they are not discussing my approaches, but the situation when for years they are modernizing, designing, testing, modifying, rolling around the polygons and squares, and then, as it turns out, they find repeat new improved version ...
        Why such a practice? There was a practice when designers showed their "offspring" (even in a project, a model), and wise military commanders made a decision. And here they have been offering developments for years ...
        With this approach, you will not be enough money.
        Quote: bar
        Why are these hysterics in big letters?

        It is you who are hysterical when they poke you in your nose.
        Quote: bar
        And how can the Ministry of Defense know this,

        They can find out from under "as long as", or they can simply move their convolutions and compare. True, some have nothing to compare with. Practical experience - with "gulkin's nose". It is not even clear how these people were determined in the Ministry of Defense, by what criteria, if they rush about like some objects in an ice-hole, in search of the optimal one, and cannot determine either in terms of timing or parameters.
        Quote: askort154
        That's right, but since the 90s a new problem has appeared. If earlier research institutes were financed under already approved programs, now the opposite is true.

        good
        There are normal people without this servile servility ...
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 25 August 2020 10: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: ROSS 42
          There was a practice when designers showed their "offspring" (even in a project, a layout), and wise military commanders made a decision

          How will they show their "brainchild" if you don't even give them money for a model?
          real, national (collected in the form of taxes and levies) money goes under all these fantasies ...
  13. askort154
    askort154 25 August 2020 06: 34 New
    0
    .... after all, the research institutes of the Ministry of Defense should be engaged in creating promising concepts, including in the direction of the development of armored vehicles, regardless of the stage at which the implementation of previous weapons developments is.

    That's right, but since the 90s a new problem has appeared. If earlier research institutes were financed under already approved programs, now the opposite is true.
    First, they knock out huge finances for far-fetched programs, exaggerating in advance the significance and parameters of the product so that more will settle in personal wallets. They will advertise super-characteristics and terms, and then I start looking for reasons and shift the graphs to the right, as a rule, due to lack of funds.
    Of course, not all, but there are obvious "money-suckers", such as Rusnano.
    1. URAL72
      URAL72 25 August 2020 07: 35 New
      +3
      Both before and now, everything is first considered, then approved, then financed. There are also proactive developments at their own expense. Nothing changed. There is only one problem - the level of education of engineers has dropped dramatically. Il-112 as an example. Hence the delays. And electronics are also developing rapidly, etc. Therefore, by the end of the tests, modernization is already needed ...
      1. askort154
        askort154 25 August 2020 08: 32 New
        +2
        URAL72 ..... Both before and now, everything is first considered, then approved, then financed.

        Everything, but not everything. A specific example on RUSNANO - 21.12.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX filmed and launched on the Internet a fragment of Chubais's speech at the New Year's corporate party,
        where 300 people were present. He joyfully proclaimed, "We have a lot of money. There are just a lot of them! We will give out bonuses to everyone!"
        After this video, which blew up the Internet and the public, on December 23, Chubais quickly paid the expenses for the corporate
        in the amount of 3,3 mln rubles. But the audit of the Accounts Chamber did not escape. And she issued a verdict - "The expenses of RUSNANO for half of the completed projects as of September 30, 2015 exceeded revenues by 13,1 billion rubles. Projects such as Nokia Siemens Network, Galileo, Store of the Future, "Polysilicon", "Nanoceramics", "PET Fibers", "Contractor Optics" - their goals were not achieved, and the costs were not effective. "
        And why Chubais remained "untouched" after that is another topic. (I don't put cons) hi
    2. bar
      bar 25 August 2020 08: 16 New
      0
      since the 90s a new problem has appeared. If earlier research institutes were financed under already approved programs, now the opposite is true.

      This is not a problem, but a solution to it. To approve the program, you first need to develop it at least in sketches, and at least do some calculations so as not to get your finger in the sky. And do not suck it out on the run from a finger, throwing away "huge finances" in a hurry. And they did the right thing that finally, in addition to factories producing serial equipment and adopting it for service, they finally remembered the research institute and the engineering school, looking for new solutions and creating groundwork for the future.
      I will not say anything about "Rosnano", this fakekontora is mentioned here at all out of place.
  14. gvozdan
    gvozdan 25 August 2020 06: 35 New
    10
    Critics are not embarrassed that 80% of modern developments in the Russian Federation are the Soviet backlog which is 30 years old or more. If now the groundwork is not created in 30 years nothing new will be.

    "I pick one strawberry, I notice the second, the third seems to be"
    1. Livonetc
      Livonetc 25 August 2020 08: 11 New
      0
      We missed one phase. :)
      I take one berry, I look at the other, I notice the third, and the fourth appears.
    2. TatarinSSSR
      TatarinSSSR 25 August 2020 08: 35 New
      -1
      How can you create a reserve for the future from the reserve from the past? Even more so from the last century. How long will you be hooking up the T-72 in 2020? Before 2080? And what about the Su-27? Before 2160? Maybe we are using the BM-21 in development and R&D for 5 billion rubles now, paint it, make it unmanned, so that we can fire a volley with a joystick from akop? AND WARM THE STATE WITHOUT HUNDRED MILLIONS FOR THIS?
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 25 August 2020 09: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: TatarinSSSR
        How can you create a reserve for the future from the reserve from the past?

        No way ... yes
        But the touch of your comfortable existence for a while can be set ... stop Excuse me, I have to answer the call on the Yotafon ... lol
  15. rocket757
    rocket757 25 August 2020 06: 39 New
    +1
    So it is interesting ... but everything will rest against the source of energy, as always.
    Those. work for the future ... that's okay.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 25 August 2020 06: 52 New
      +1
      In the source of babosov, in my opinion, more precisely in his convulsive search. From the same opera, flights to the moon and in reality, sea-lake launches, projects based on principles unknown to science, articulated tanks, then dismembered. Give babosov !!!!!
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 25 August 2020 08: 01 New
        -2
        The costs will be for anyone, theft ... it depends on the controllers, so everything is muddy.
        But, it is necessary to carry out R&D, because they will not wait outside either, they will look for ways to increase military power, of course.
  16. Eskobar
    Eskobar 25 August 2020 07: 02 New
    0
    How can you replace what is not? What kind of wunderwaffe they want to cut budgets under? And as a result, they drive the modernized still Soviet t 72
  17. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 25 August 2020 07: 09 New
    +1
    Simulating hectic activity ... add that third link for the missile defense - a very fat target. And maneuverability will be such at the exit that a potential enemy will simply die of laughter. It vaguely resembles the projectors from Roskokosmos (there is no new ship, and there will never be). THQ has many ideas like this winked
  18. The comment was deleted.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 25 August 2020 08: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Alex 2020
      The two-tier architecture, having certain advantages over the traditional single-hull, is unlikely to be widely used in all areas. In many areas, a fundamental advantage remains over classic machines.

      Alexey is right ... two-link machines have been designed both in our country and abroad since the last century! But "things are still there" .... (in the "area" of armored vehicles ...)!
      Swedish two-link tank Strv2000 ...

      By the way, talk about the ETH cannon has also been going on for a long time! This "weapon", from time to time, promised to equip the "Armata", then the T-90 of the latest modification ...! By the way, the development of the ETH cannon is carried out in Germany ... (if my memory serves me ...)!
      SO WHERE IS "INNOVATION"?
  19. NordUral
    NordUral 25 August 2020 07: 41 New
    -1
    There is still no armata, but they are already going to cut the shift. In the times of these, they would have long ago been answered for this.
  20. Hog
    Hog 25 August 2020 07: 42 New
    -1
    it is necessary first to "bring to mind" the T-14 tank and other armored vehicles on the Armata platform, and only then think about its replacement in the future.

    Well, one does not interfere with the other.
    Let's put the reillgan on right away,
    and that is not very innovative.
  21. Igor Ivanov_4
    Igor Ivanov_4 25 August 2020 07: 56 New
    0
    And also, and there will also be a hyperboloid of engineer Garin, and a power electromagnetic shield! And in general, a nafik gun is not needed, and we, ourselves, do not know what to promise just to not cover up the funding! Anyway, when they ask, everyone will be jailed. Specifically, we have already proposed, but it is expensive and no one will do it. And also - can we join Musk on the Mars team? As here everyone has already stopped ...
  22. rocket757
    rocket757 25 August 2020 08: 02 New
    +1
    R&D has not been canceled ... but the order and proper use of the allocated funds must be monitored more carefully!
  23. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 25 August 2020 08: 18 New
    -2
    An endless song. Daily fables about the development of new tanks, aircraft, and more. Every day they rub in on us about something new. Really, already tired of these fairy tales. Because in fact, apart from ceremonial piece units, nothing is new. They promise something super new, dozens of years pass, and the maximum that we have is prototypes that turn out to be too expensive and do not go into the series. As a result, we get only modernized equipment from the 20th century, and then 30 pieces per year. Tired of these tales and promises !!! Change! Change, our hearts demand!
  24. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 25 August 2020 08: 30 New
    -3
    Will the ruling regime remain in the 50s and why 3 crew members in 50? Jews are already showing concepts with 2 crew members .., or even robots in general.
  25. Constanty
    Constanty 25 August 2020 08: 42 New
    0
    At the NII BTVT they say that the T-14 "Armata" tank will remain effective until about the middle of the XXI century (until the 2040s)


    We are in 2020, "Armata" are just starting mass production, it will take several years before they are produced enough to create whole units. Meanwhile, in 2040, this would not be up to date?
    In fact, the prospect is not very interesting - it is not surprising that work on a new tank has begun.
    Another thing is that in 2040, tanks of the early 1980s will still be used in the world.

    I will not believe in the "death" of tanks. This death was announced several times, and it still remains a very important element of the ground forces.
  26. mag nit
    mag nit 25 August 2020 09: 01 New
    +1
    "Armata MMM".
    1. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 25 August 2020 21: 13 New
      0
      We will hire Lyonya Golubkov for the presentation of the new "three-link" Armata smile
  27. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 25 August 2020 09: 20 New
    +1
    This work is being carried out at the R&D stage, there is nothing terrible in this, a new concept is being worked out, this is the main bread of scientists, especially the military
  28. Maks1995
    Maks1995 25 August 2020 09: 21 New
    0
    Specificity is important here.
    In the meantime, the description simply resembles cartoons for games, for example STARCRAFT /
    there are just such, 2-link, only drones usually did not cram.

    IMHO, they just watch cartoons and discuss a promising option)))) maybe this is called "a concept is being developed" ????
  29. JD1979
    JD1979 25 August 2020 09: 22 New
    0
    Fans of С & С RA grew up and became constructors)). In general, I wonder what will happen in the end
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 25 August 2020 10: 34 New
      +1
      Or, in the manual, someone under coke played this toy and was impressed by the power of the unit)))
  30. Klingon
    Klingon 25 August 2020 09: 36 New
    0
    what? I thought that the electrochemical gun is a version of a railgun where a powerful electric (plasma) arc is created by an explosion of chemicals, which pushes the blank along the guides at a hypersonic speed. or am I confusing something?
    1. Voltsky
      Voltsky 25 August 2020 13: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Klingon
      or am I confusing something

      exactly
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 25 August 2020 17: 15 New
        0
        what exactly?
        1. Voltsky
          Voltsky 26 August 2020 10: 59 New
          0
          confusing :)

          detonation using a microwave, faster because everything ignites at once and not as usual.
          1. Klingon
            Klingon 26 August 2020 15: 10 New
            0
            understandably thanks, but I read somewhere about another principle. There were these like them - MHD generators. Precisely for the railgun. They are disposable in the form of a cartridge. When the chemical explodes, a powerful current is created there, which accelerates the blank.
            1. Voltsky
              Voltsky 26 August 2020 20: 02 New
              0
              the force of the explosion into energy, that into an arc for a gaus gun :)
              but the loss of efficiency, the capacitors are small and capacious
              1. Klingon
                Klingon 26 August 2020 20: 21 New
                0
                I'm not a physicist, so I won't argue.) Perhaps in the future they will solve this problem too
  31. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 25 August 2020 09: 49 New
    0
    In short, the reincarnation of the T-35 in a new guise ... Let's see what happens ...
  32. dgonni
    dgonni 25 August 2020 09: 52 New
    +2
    Uh-huh like a terrestrial death star. This is not a project but a project. But on it, the loot can be cut normally so!
  33. Diviz
    Diviz 25 August 2020 09: 58 New
    +1
    It's just that by then there will be small nuclear reactors and a plasma engine. In general, everything in the project is in 10 years I HOPE to become a reality.
  34. Dikson
    Dikson 25 August 2020 10: 20 New
    0
    ... And then the design idea flooded ... at the sight of the people's money ..)
  35. evgen1221
    evgen1221 25 August 2020 10: 32 New
    0
    It looks like a clumsy attempt at deza.
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. ZVS
    ZVS 25 August 2020 11: 04 New
    0
    Your mother, bring to mind at least one tank - T-14, otherwise they are already developing an electromagnetic one, and a two-link one! It is immediately clear that Shoigu does not count money. And Putin also said that only the necessary level of defense would be determined. And where is this limiting level, he himself has no idea.
  38. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 25 August 2020 11: 32 New
    0
    Thoughts should be ahead of the current state of technology. When the middle of the 21st century comes, the developments and developments must become reality, therefore, the research institutes are doing everything right - this is the foundation for the future ...
  39. Muddy Seeing ORACLE
    Muddy Seeing ORACLE 25 August 2020 12: 51 New
    0
    I understand something like this
    1. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 25 August 2020 21: 19 New
      0
      T-900 Ilya Muromets, caliber 325mm cannon 2A460M-23 ... the rest of the performance characteristics are "classified" stop
  40. strelokmira
    strelokmira 25 August 2020 12: 58 New
    +1
    The NII BTVT says that the T-14 "Armata" tank will remain effective until about the middle of the XXI century (until the 2040s), but at the moment it is necessary to work on new versions of armored vehicles for the Russian armed forces

    You would have mastered the program for the production of armata in serial quantities, and that is, a persistent feeling that by 2040 the t-72b ... will remain the main tank of the army
  41. Voltsky
    Voltsky 25 August 2020 13: 04 New
    0
    from everything read, interesting thoughts emerged; the two-link concept with the described layout strongly resembles the Swedish projects of the 80s, and everything else resembles the concept of "gunship". Regarding the cannon with electromagnetic detonation, the coalition already seems to have this.
  42. Old Orc
    Old Orc 25 August 2020 13: 40 New
    0
    How quickly the approach changed. Previously, such things were a military secret. In 90, they first became commercial secrets, then materials, and now everything has turned into PR materials.
  43. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 25 August 2020 14: 18 New
    0
    I suggest reading madrigal from especially "gifted" comments:
    Quote: Whatislove
    Everything is as usual. Even Armata was not accepted into service, and we are already creating "For Replacement" ...

    The tank is a complex product and is becoming obsolete, and the "Armata" is already in service.
    Quote: Polymer
    Quote: 1976AG
    It is necessary not only to read, but to understand the meaning of what is written.

    Really?! belay
    And the test results of previous developments do not depend on the stage? I am not saying that designers should not think about the future of weapons at all, but first, nevertheless, it is necessary to bring to mind the existing developments.

    And this is nonsense. laughing
    Quote: Graz
    they began to engage in projecting,
    first you need to set up the production of armature in the normal number of troops and decide with the installation of 152mm in this tank

    And this is nothing at all.
    Quote: Graz
    we know all this here are examples of Lebedenko's tank (they built it in metal, they spent a lot of money, and in the end they spent a lot of money), Mendeleev's tank (it's good that the project was immediately hacked to death), but they spent a lot of money on the T-35, SMK, T100,
    tank cruiser Osokina, land cruiser Davletov., and there were such projects during the late USSR, all this was deliberate projection, waste of public finances and time

    The creation of the "Caspian monster" is also from this opera laughing
    Quote: URAL72
    Both before and now, everything is first considered, then approved, then financed. There are also proactive developments at their own expense. Nothing changed. There is only one problem - the level of education of engineers has dropped dramatically. Il-112 as an example. Hence the delays. And electronics are also developing rapidly, etc. Therefore, by the end of the tests, modernization is already needed ...

    Stupidity.
    Quote: TatarinSSSR
    An endless song. Daily fables about the development of new tanks, aircraft, and more. Every day they rub in on us about something new. Really, already tired of these fairy tales. Because in fact, apart from ceremonial piece units, nothing is new. They promise something super new, dozens of years pass, and the maximum that we have is prototypes that turn out to be too expensive and do not go into the series. As a result, we get only modernized equipment from the 20th century, and then 30 pieces per year. Tired of these tales and promises !!! Change! Change, our hearts demand!

    We were born to make a "fairy tale" come true.
    Quote: Eskobar
    How can you replace what is not? What kind of wunderwaffe they want to cut budgets under? And as a result, they drive the modernized still Soviet t 72

    What's wrong? ..... Yes, take it and give it to the pensioners laughing
  44. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 25 August 2020 14: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Quote: Alex 2020
    The two-tier architecture, having certain advantages over the traditional single-hull, is unlikely to be widely used in all areas. In many areas, a fundamental advantage remains over classic machines.

    Alexey is right ... two-link machines have been designed both in our country and abroad since the last century! But "things are still there" .... (in the "area" of armored vehicles ...)!
    Swedish two-link tank Strv2000 ...

    By the way, talk about the ETH cannon has also been going on for a long time! This "weapon", from time to time, promised to equip the "Armata", then the T-90 of the latest modification ...! By the way, the development of the ETH cannon is carried out in Germany ... (if my memory serves me ...)!
    SO WHERE IS "INNOVATION"?

    Well, for this Lavrenty Pavlovich is not, he organized the right way laughing
  45. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 25 August 2020 14: 29 New
    0
    Quote: Muddy-Seeing ORACLE
    I understand something like this

    Ilya Muromets is certainly interesting in the picture.
  46. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 25 August 2020 14: 31 New
    0
    Quote: Dikson
    ... And then the design idea flooded ... at the sight of the people's money ..)

    Designers are responsible people, Grabin knew how to count money laughing
  47. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 25 August 2020 14: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Free Wind
    In the source of babosov, in my opinion, more precisely in his convulsive search. From the same opera, flights to the moon and in reality, sea-lake launches, projects based on principles unknown to science, articulated tanks, then dismembered. Give babosov !!!!!

    That's right - to disperse the research institutes so that they don't do garbage, write out the pendal to the hard workers laughing
  48. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 25 August 2020 14: 44 New
    0
    Quote: Graz
    we know all this here are examples of Lebedenko's tank (they built it in metal, they spent a lot of money, and in the end they spent a lot of money), Mendeleev's tank (it's good that the project was immediately hacked to death), but they spent a lot of money on the T-35, SMK, T100,
    tank cruiser Osokina, land cruiser Davletov., and there were such projects during the late USSR, all this was deliberate projection, waste of public finances and time
    The T-35 tank was in a finished product, like its French and German counterparts, as at that time in "advanced" Germany in agriculture they plowed on oxen and horses and tractors could be counted on the fingers, you can look at the photos of those years, in the USSR on tractors. laughing
  49. Doliva63
    Doliva63 25 August 2020 18: 37 New
    0
    Quote: Temples
    How about feeding these components in the tank? What if a leak? It will blow, and the enemy is not needed.

    So if TNT (or what is there right now) initiate forcibly or accidentally, it will also explode, won't it?
  50. Freedim
    Freedim 25 August 2020 22: 05 New
    0
    One thing confuses me in this news. Unlike the Americans, ours usually do not announce the development of what later becomes operational. We learned about almost all promising developments after the construction of not even concepts, but full-fledged devices, although they require improvement. The legacy of the USSR of the strictest secrecy in the development of military equipment casts doubt on the projects of the research institutes cited in the article. It is very similar to the trolling of our overseas and European "partners". Although, purely theoretically, if you cross the DT-30PM (aka Vityaz) with the armature modules, you can get an interesting device for a war in the polar regions and the arctic.
    shl. By the way, with this arrangement, the lion's share of modern anti-tank systems will hit the last link (as the warmest one), while the crew with intact weapons will be able to take revenge on the offender.