Zelensky wished Ukrainian military intelligence "to be one step ahead of enemies"

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The Ukrainian president made a statement regarding the activities of the country's intelligence structures. According to Volodymyr Zelensky, military intelligence should carry out active work. This work should be aimed at analytical activity, as well as at strengthening and deepening strategic and operational activities.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy stressed the need to form a National Intelligence Program. According to him, this kind of formation should be carried out in the period from 2021 to 2025.



Zelensky:

The new program should provide for the transition to NATO standards and the introduction of new approaches to personnel training.

Mr. Zelensky made such a statement during the presentation to the department of the new head of the GUR of the Ministry of Defense, Kirill Budanov, a man with a known sabotage past.

The President of Ukraine said that the change in the leadership of the Main Intelligence Directorate would make it possible to "reformat" the department. At the same time, Zelensky wished the employees of the department "to preserve traditions." Also from the wishes of Zelensky, the following drew special attention to themselves:

I wish you to be one step ahead of our enemies.

According to the head of the Ukrainian state, "it is extremely important to revive the fighting spirit of the Ukrainian intelligence service."

Zelensky made his statements against the background of the emblem of the military intelligence of Ukraine, which depicts a bird with a sword hanging over the territory of the Russian Federation.

In turn, Kirill Budanov, appointed head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, said that the tasks of the department today include "the return of the occupied territories of Donbass and Crimea."

Budanov:

Also, our task is to restore justice for the people who brought the war to our homeland.
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  1. +7
    10 August 2020 16: 11
    The new program should provide for the transition to NATO standards and the introduction of new approaches to personnel training.

    Well, whose intelligence is this?
    Already openly says who is the boss.
    The prezikloun really only had power in a single quarter.
    1. +1
      10 August 2020 16: 17
      Quote: Lipchanin
      The prezikloun really only had power in a single quarter.

      If he has power, then only at home over his wife and children .. And so the protege, not fish, not meat .. what is what is not .. Not a single smart thought and initiative ..
      1. +4
        10 August 2020 16: 24
        Quote: Svarog
        Not a single smart thought and initiative ..

        So he lives all his life according to scripts written by others.
        1. +12
          10 August 2020 16: 47
          Zelensky wished Ukrainian military intelligence "to be one step ahead of enemies"

          Yes, in slender, close-knit ranks, stomp into your Bandera Valhalla, ahead of everyoneYes
          Confidently, without creating congestion. Yes

          Your intelligence has long been Counter-intelligence, SMERSH, NKVD...



          Photo - a group of participants in the liquidation of the Bandera bandit underground at the memory.
          1. -4
            10 August 2020 17: 33
            Quote: Insurgent
            Photo - a group of participants in the liquidation of the Bandera bandit underground at the memory.

            This is the USSR. They are over 70 years old, if alive at all. Contributed to the cause of their country.
            Why attribute them today, if the USSR has not been preserved.
            They wouldn't understand the problem at all. There are capitalists here and there; there is no USSR.
            1. +3
              10 August 2020 18: 20
              This is the USSR. They are over 70 years old, if alive at all. Contributed to the cause of their country.
              Why attribute them today, if the USSR has not been preserved.
              They wouldn't understand the problem at all. There are capitalists here and there; there is no USSR.
              You are mistaken, the school remained, that's why it is intelligence. They don't forget anything and take everything into account. Positioning and orientation are changing, and the method is being improved. The simplest example of a non-reconnaissance plan, if I am not mistaken, OMON uses a combat formation very similar to the Roman and Greek phalanxes, as well as an armored formation with shields, the so-called turtle. It is still relevant. What can we say about intelligence.
            2. +9
              10 August 2020 18: 52
              Quote: Cristall
              This is the USSR. They are over 70 years old, if alive at all. Contributed to the cause of their country.
              Why attribute them today, if the USSR has not been preserved.

              They wouldn't understand the problem at all. There are capitalists here and there; there is no USSR.


              You are wrong and you are wrong! Fortunately Yes

              There are worthy heirs, despite the change in political formations, who understand that:

              "A good fascist (Bandera nationalist) is a dead fascist"



              And the seventh year in the trenches, in labor, we prove it Yes
              1. +2
                11 August 2020 00: 44
                And in the summer of 2014, Donetsk had its own SMERSH.
                And I knew his commander.
    2. +1
      10 August 2020 17: 23
      Quote: Lipchanin
      Well, whose intelligence is this?
      Already openly says who is the boss.
      At the same time, Zelensky wished the employees of the department "to preserve traditions." Yes, everyone has long known that all the intelligence services of the Nezalezhnaya, work at the direction and under the command of the owners from across the river, in "the best traditions of the CIA and NSA. They point out, but the garn lads trample the earth.
      1. +1
        10 August 2020 17: 59
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Lipchanin
        Well, whose intelligence is this?
        Already openly says who is the boss.
        At the same time, Zelensky wished the employees of the department "to preserve traditions." Yes, everyone has long known that all the intelligence services of the Nezalezhnaya, work at the direction and under the command of the owners from across the river, in "the best traditions of the CIA and NSA. They point out, but the garn lads trample the earth.

        On the other hand, what are their traditions?
        Terrorist attacks?
        So they have not encountered serious people yet.
        Traditions to escape from where the "Polite People" appeared?
        So the flag in their hands with such traditions
        1. +1
          10 August 2020 19: 18
          Quote: Lipchanin
          On the other hand, what are their traditions?

          Soon ISIS and al-Qaeda will also begin to claim traditions.
    3. 0
      10 August 2020 22: 27
      Quote: Lipchanin
      Well, whose intelligence is this?

      It does not matter. It is important whether there is counterintelligence for this intelligence. Why am I plagued by vague doubts ...
  2. +4
    10 August 2020 16: 13
    Zelensky wished Ukrainian military intelligence "to be one step ahead of enemies"
    And a fighting dupa facing the enemy laughing
    1. 0
      10 August 2020 16: 16
      I wish you to be one step ahead of our enemies.

      from Rostov to Miass and to Magadan one step at a time
      1. +2
        10 August 2020 16: 33
        Quote: antivirus
        from Rostov to Miass and to Magadan one step at a time

    2. +3
      10 August 2020 16: 25
      Quote: anjey
      And a fighting dupa facing the enemy

      Well yes. One step ahead, it turns out to be a fool to the enemy laughing
      1. +4
        10 August 2020 16: 46
        Wouldn't stumble ... lol
        1. +5
          10 August 2020 17: 55
          On purpose and stumble laughing
          As in an anecdote lol
      2. 0
        10 August 2020 17: 27
        Quote: Lipchanin
        Well yes. One step ahead, it turns out to be a fool to the enemy

        Omerikanski lads on the cart, and okrainski in front of the mare.
    3. +1
      10 August 2020 18: 33
      Quote: anjey
      Zelensky wished Ukrainian military intelligence "to be one step ahead of enemies"
      , keep your hands behind your back, carry out all the orders of the enemies and, when addressing the enemy, call him "citizen chief". smile
  3. +7
    10 August 2020 16: 13
    Also, our task is to restore justice for the people who brought the war to our homeland. [Quote] [/ quote]
    Here on VO they like to drive against Israel, but Jews for such statements would add him to the list of terrorists and write him out of line at the cemetery.
    1. 0
      10 August 2020 16: 42
      do not shoot down our agents - who else will stand next to Turchinov and Senya?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +3
      10 August 2020 17: 34
      Quote: sergey32
      Here in VO they like to drive to Israel,

      In Israel, the authorities defend their country by any means, and in Israel there can be no Maidan.
  4. 0
    10 August 2020 16: 16
    And the task of locating and killing ... am Have already shone more than once ...
  5. +2
    10 August 2020 16: 17
    While one step ahead of the owner (like a mongrel on a leash)
  6. +3
    10 August 2020 16: 17
    Over the past week, the Minsk airport has already been tortured to turn back air passengers arriving in groups from Kiev, of a typical age and inflatedness, with tattoos from the "Right Sector", "Azov" and other gangs.
    1. +2
      10 August 2020 16: 41
      Quote: Operator
      Over the past week, at the Minsk airport, they have already been tortured to turn back air passengers arriving in groups from Kiev,

      Why wrap it up? Better hammer into wooden jackets
      And stay in the ground in the famous artisan forests.
      You can go to the swamps
    2. -5
      10 August 2020 17: 35
      Quote: Operator
      arriving in groups from Kiev, typical age and stature, with tattoos "Right Sector", "Azov" and other bandit formations.

      nothing betrayed Stirlitz like a parachute and a budennovka.
      This is a failure. They had to wrap themselves in the Ukrainian flag, and carry the Banners.
      1. +2
        10 August 2020 17: 49
        Who would have bellowed.
        Nonsense to remind on the search for "separatists" and "Muscovites"?
        Or a "censor"?
        Or maybe a "peacemaker" as counterintelligence works.
        Oh, who am I talking to. Full-time employee of the SBU (CIA)
        1. +4
          10 August 2020 18: 47
          Oh, who am I talking to. Full-time employee of the SBU (CIA)


          yes vryatli. an ordinary square at the call of the heart. the CIA department does not have enough budget for this - pay so many
  7. +7
    10 August 2020 16: 22
    restoration of justice in relation to the persons who brought the war to our homeland.
    Hello. These persons from the Maidan very quickly relocated to the Rada and the Ukrainian government (and most of this government did not leave). The names of those who unleashed the war are known, and they all sit quietly in Kiev in high positions. The duplicity of the ukrovlast is simply amazing. Although, what is surprising, the Western masters have good students. It would seem that after the Skripals, Western propaganda has no place to fall, but Ukraine still, in terms of the level of idiocy of its statements, spits all its teachers. "Do it yourself, do with us, do better than us." laughing
  8. +1
    10 August 2020 16: 23
    I wish you to be one step ahead of our enemies.

    The enemy of the Kiev junta is only one Russia, as I understand it, especially if they switch to "NATO standards" ..
    Thank you for your frankness, everything is written! Then do not say during interrogations that you misunderstood us, etc. Donbass continues to bomb ..
    1. 0
      10 August 2020 16: 35
      The enemy of the Kiev junta is only one Russia, as I understand it
      Yes, you look at the intelligence emblem in the title of the article, the sword pokes at Russia, it is in the center and highlighted. color.
      1. +2
        10 August 2020 18: 11
        Quote: Romka47
        The enemy of the Kiev junta is only one Russia, as I understand it
        Yes, you look at the intelligence emblem in the title of the article, the sword pokes at Russia, it is in the center and highlighted. color.

        Yes, and without the emblem it is clear Policemen of the times of the Wehrmacht negative
        They are being prepared again for this, but already as "democrats" ... And they will have a beautiful uniform and feeding .. The main thing is to wet the villages on the quiet, the Congress will write off everything and pay you
    2. +1
      10 August 2020 16: 56
      Quote: Shilka
      The enemy of the Kiev junta is only one Russia

      I posted it yesterday.
      This conversation took place in 2014 at Odnoklassniki. Found it by chance.
      There were disadvantages and it is clear who instructed
      Valery Devyatko (Devyatko)

      09:43
      Damn, that's why the Russians understand that all Slavs are brothers, and we, Ukrainians, are so opposed to this?!?!?! And we are trying to convince ourselves that Ivans and Sergei, Svetlana and Natalya are not brothers and sisters to us, but the European Conchita and Juanita, Gomez and Pedro are okay !!!! Well, after all, nonsense !!!!!
      Tatiana Kravets BoldyrevaPletneva
      All Russia is shouting: Brothers Ukrainians !!! and in Ukraine they shout: maskals for knives ??????
      1. -3
        10 August 2020 17: 37
        Quote: Lipchanin
        All Russia is shouting: Brothers Ukrainians !!! and in Ukraine they shout: maskals for knives ????

        I'm reading comments on what the Ukrainians and Ukraine want, dear Russians (Yeltsin's voice)
        it is far from the love of friendship, and rather worse than knives.
        Needless to say, everyone in Russia wants rays of light, but in Ukraine everyone wants death. This is not true.
        1. 0
          10 August 2020 18: 52
          Quote: Cristall
          I'm reading comments on what dear Russians wish the Ukrainians and Ukraine ... this is far from the love of friendship, and rather worse than knives
          If you would give at least one such example, otherwise distrustful Russians might think that you are breaching here like a bug on a leash.
        2. +2
          10 August 2020 19: 22
          Quote: Cristall
          I'm reading comments on what the Ukrainians and Ukraine want, dear Russians (Yeltsin's voice)
          it is far from the love of friendship, and rather worse than knives.
          Needless to say, everyone in Russia wants rays of light, but in Ukraine everyone wants death. This is not true.

          So what you deserve .. From the Bandera crystal you are ours, maybe from the sniper UNA -Unso?
          Then you have been on the site for a long time waiting in the wings .. heh he
      2. +2
        10 August 2020 18: 19
        Quote: Lipchanin
        Quote: Shilka
        The enemy of the Kiev junta is only one Russia

        I posted it yesterday.
        This conversation took place in 2014 at Odnoklassniki. Found it by chance.
        There were disadvantages and it is clear who instructed
        Valery Devyatko (Devyatko)

        09:43
        Damn, that's why the Russians understand that all Slavs are brothers, and we, Ukrainians, are so opposed to this?!?!?! And we are trying to convince ourselves that Ivans and Sergei, Svetlana and Natalya are not brothers and sisters to us, but the European Conchita and Juanita, Gomez and Pedro are okay !!!! Well, after all, nonsense !!!!!
        Tatiana Kravets BoldyrevaPletneva
        All Russia is shouting: Brothers Ukrainians !!! and in Ukraine they shout: maskals for knives ??????

        Thank you Sergey! From the bottom of my heart ... You have no idea how tired I am here on the site over the last 5 years .. What is going on? .. What kind of heart you need to have to resist all this rag-tag gathered here .. And already openly scoffing on a site like Russian ( it used to be) A ...
        Eh, Seryoga, that's how everything is in Russia .. Until the thunder breaks out, they will mock
        We will break through, and these will screech among the caches, etc. soldier
        1. +2
          10 August 2020 20: 29
          Quote: Shilka
          We'll break through, I'm sure, and these will still screech across the caches, etc.

          My two cousins ​​disappeared in the Donbass. Yenakiyevo.
          Do not shake the air, I will take revenge.
          Age and sores. Sometimes I can't go out with a dog.
          But I believe that the brothers will get revenge.
          Miners have never been broken.
          They saw under the ground what the Nazis would not see in a nightmare.
          But they will get there.
          The Earth would rather get rid of this wickedness
  9. +2
    10 August 2020 16: 25
    According to the head of the Ukrainian state, "it is extremely important to revive the fighting spirit of the Ukrainian intelligence service."

    Rebirth implies that there was once a fighting spirit and intelligence, too, but when? request
    1. +2
      10 August 2020 16: 44
      In their dreams, they have no history and traditions either ...
      1. +3
        10 August 2020 18: 29
        Quote: cniza
        In their dreams, they have no history and traditions either ...

        While Victor is dancing ... and like this Ugh damn

        A shame that the Slavs will digest for a long time ..
        1. +2
          10 August 2020 18: 32
          Selyuki, what to take from them ...
          1. +1
            10 August 2020 19: 24
            Quote: cniza
            Selyuki, what to take from them ...

            Have to answer! Especially those who stand behind these dolls and many have darkened faces .. he he
            1. +2
              10 August 2020 20: 49
              Why are they ashamed, we know who and what they want ...
        2. +2
          10 August 2020 20: 31
          Quote: Shilka
          A shame that the Slavs will digest for a long time ..

  10. +2
    10 August 2020 16: 25
    Tvari. You will die in the ditch.
  11. 0
    10 August 2020 16: 28
    Zelensky was led to the proposals of the Democrats and removed Burba by installing the man Kondratyuk and his curators of the State Department of the State Department. According to Oleg Tsarev, Kondratyuk, who recruited Nalyvaychenko to the CIA, is the secret ruler of Ukraine.
  12. +2
    10 August 2020 16: 33
    I still can't stop "yelling" over the emblem of their intelligence, the whole picture around Russia, there can be no other enemies a priori, they probably didn't even give out money
    1. +3
      10 August 2020 16: 40
      Ukraine was originally an enemy of Russia. That is why it was invented.
  13. +1
    10 August 2020 16: 33
    "The wise rule over the stars"
    Actually, this bird is an owl!
    The emblem is full of symbolism lol
  14. +2
    10 August 2020 16: 43
    At the same time, Zelensky wished the employees of the department "to preserve traditions."


    How can you preserve something that never existed, and even according to NATO standards, he pushed it "powerfully" ...
  15. +1
    10 August 2020 16: 50
    How much pathos! .. What slogans! .. They are ridiculous, these common scouts.
    1. +2
      10 August 2020 16: 57
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      How much pathos! .. What slogans! .. They are ridiculous, these common scouts.

      I don’t understand in any way, they returned the occupied territories of Crimea and a part of Donbass. Now let them return the entire Donbass, Odessa, Kharkov and further down the list. What are they pulling? belay
      1. +1
        10 August 2020 17: 00
        Baloo, you wonder in vain. Remember the behavior of jackals in "Mowgli"
        "And we will go to the server (to NATO) And we will go to the north."
      2. -3
        10 August 2020 18: 14
        Quote: Balu
        Now let them return the entire Donbass, Odessa, Kharkov and further down the list. What are they pulling?

        How do you wrap it up and mail or so?
        We didn't deserve to return anything at all. Not a single project of the future was shown. Awl for soap.
        1. +2
          10 August 2020 18: 23
          Quote: Cristall
          Quote: Balu
          Now let them return the entire Donbass, Odessa, Kharkov and further down the list. What are they pulling?

          How do you wrap it up and mail or so?
          We didn't deserve to return anything at all. Not a single project of the future was shown. Awl for soap.

          Hi Cristall (Cristall)! And what projects do Banderlog have? What project do you personally have? What good has the Kiev authorities done for Crimea for so many years? Russia has built a bridge, roads, equipment for hospitals, high-tech assistance has become free and generally available. How many endoprosthetics were done for free in Odessa, and even in Ukraine as a whole over the past year? In our clinic, the queue is 1-2 years, in the nearest federal center (200 km) for free. The state pays for the travel and the accompanying person too. Just don't whine again about the knife in the back.
        2. +1
          10 August 2020 20: 35
          Quote: Cristall
          Not a single project of the future was shown.

          And that's why they run to work in Russia?
          Or maybe the girls on Tverskaya who speak Mov will also show the project?
    2. -1
      10 August 2020 20: 24
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      How much pathos! .. What slogans! .. They are ridiculous, these common scouts.

      When they write in the style: "as long as they will kill the leaders of Donbass," you are throwing thunders that they say ukro-drg should be punished because they killed all the saints. When an article is in the style of "they can't do anything," you joke, saying "what to take from them." It's not even doublethink (Orwell is crying on the sidelines), it's schizophrenia))
  16. +1
    10 August 2020 16: 51
    Why the hell aren't all dogs in muzzles? You that the laws are not written, okraintsy your mother.
  17. +2
    10 August 2020 16: 56
    They caught the NATO standards instantly, but for some reason only in the field of fraud and provocations, but something interferes with the dancers. The world will laugh in the case of Babchenko, then they will do the dad a disservice.
  18. +1
    10 August 2020 17: 02
    Shit, ass croaked something again! It's time to junk, or to a psychiatrist!
  19. +4
    10 August 2020 17: 05
    Zelensky:
    I wish you to be one step ahead of our enemies.

    And what does Zelensky have to do with it?
    1. 0
      10 August 2020 20: 36
      Quote: APASUS
      And what does Zelensky have to do with it?

      He's not a sucker lol
  20. +1
    10 August 2020 17: 12
    Also, from the wishes of Zelensky, the following drew special attention to themselves:
    I wish you to be one step ahead of our enemies.
    ... Well, who framed Roger Rabbit, in the sense of Lukashenka?
  21. 0
    10 August 2020 17: 18
    "The new program should provide for the transition to NATO standards and the introduction of new approaches to personnel training."
    "Also, our task is to restore justice for the people who brought the war to our homeland."

    Now, if you don't know what the "alternatively gifted" are saying, then you can agree with them. "Transition to NATO standards" will help stealth, and "restoration of justice", etc. - war against nato and zaluzhniki.
  22. +1
    10 August 2020 17: 26
    According to the head of the Ukrainian state, "it is extremely important to revive the fighting spirit of the Ukrainian intelligence service."

    Wow! (I already say this by NATO standards) And what did Ukrainian intelligence once have a fighting spirit? And it needs to be revived? And in what year did this spirit die, or rather dispelled?
    1. 0
      10 August 2020 20: 38
      Quote: Egoza
      And that Ukrainian intelligence once had a fighting spirit?

      The spirit was. Well, sort of smell ...
      Who needs to figure it out about the battle
  23. +1
    10 August 2020 17: 41
    Damn such "brothers".
  24. +2
    10 August 2020 17: 41
    ECO as it sausages. ...
    Greens fallen before the deadline, are you to judge Luka? He will eat you with shit and not choke!
    And if it's no joke, then it's funny to listen to the speech of a clown trying to play the role of president.
    The threads from this political doll stick out at all ends. The Ukrainians were so pacified that they voted for the clown out of grief.
  25. 0
    10 August 2020 18: 25
    Such wet sexual dreams))))
  26. +1
    10 August 2020 18: 31
    And the emblem just "ignites"!
    An owl starting on a jet propulsion from the interfluve of the Nizhnyaya Tunguska and the Yenisei ..
    Probably it is worth taking an idea for consideration ..
    Well, it's cool that the secret service of the alleged "state" in the emblem of the "state" itself takes up a minimum of space! This is just a masterpiece of mockery of "independence", and simply "surrealism": in the emblem of intelligence, the main place is given not to one's own country !!!!
    Keep it up, flawed !!!
  27. 0
    10 August 2020 18: 38
    I wish Ukrainian intelligence to continue to be one step ahead of the sapper!
    laughing laughing laughing
    1. +1
      10 August 2020 18: 45
      Quote: akarfoxhound
      I wish Ukrainian intelligence to continue to be one step ahead of the sapper!
      laughing laughing laughing

      They have already been blown up during operations with Russian PMCs! Lukashenka has 70% confidence.
      Ears stick out from Ukraine and Israel from the United States ... There were betrayals on the part of Russia and Belarus in the structures of power .. Forged documents and hiring for good money, etc.
      Sorted it out like! Soon there will be a response for this provocation negative
  28. +1
    10 August 2020 18: 39
    In the very emblem of the Military Intelligence of Ukraine, the importance of Russia is emphasized (it is the main one on the whole "ball" and is even highlighted in color .. And your own country is somewhere on the side, and you don’t care about it, the State Department doesn’t pay for it) - sorry, but I refuse to understand the logic of those who agreed on this emblem ...
    1. +4
      10 August 2020 19: 00
      Quote: Turist1996
      In the very emblem of the Military Intelligence of Ukraine, the importance of Russia is emphasized (it is the main one on the whole "ball" and is even highlighted in color .. And your own country is somewhere on the side, and you don’t care about it, the State Department doesn’t pay for it) - sorry, but I refuse to understand the logic of those who agreed on this emblem ...

      So the edge of the sword, in Rossjune and directed!
      1. +1
        10 August 2020 20: 14
        More like a jet of jet exhaust: like an owl launched into space from Siberia ..
        Maybe, of course, it only seems to me, but with the symbolism there is a clear "flight"!
        The emblem doesn't have to look double. And here: an owl, a sword, Russia on a globe - how to link them in a simple way for the layman, fig knows him ..
        It looks very ambiguous.
      2. +1
        11 August 2020 04: 34
        This is the whole point. These are the real Nazis, Bandera. With their emblem, they do not hesitate to declare who their enemy is, and Crimea and Donbass have nothing to do with it. For they have stated this before. The destruction and dismemberment of Russia is what they want with all their livers.
  29. +1
    10 August 2020 18: 46
    In general, an owl with a sword is the emblem of reconnaissance aviation since the Afghan war, I saw it on our Su-17M4 and M3 scouts in Bagram. What does the encrypted banderziana in the bushes have to do with it? wassat
  30. 0
    10 August 2020 19: 00
    The President of Ukraine said that the change in the leadership of the Main Intelligence Directorate would make it possible to "reformat" the department.

    He became completely weak, only delusional fantasies remained.
  31. 0
    10 August 2020 19: 47
    "Also, our task is to restore justice for the people who brought the war to our homeland." (from) what How shoud I understand this? The lackey threatens the owners? The war in Ukraine, as I understand it, was provoked by mattress makers and their partners.
  32. +1
    10 August 2020 21: 56
    Budanov: Also, our task is to restore justice for the people who brought the war to our Motherland.

    Is it not too early for you, son, to write yourself into the Almighty, in relation to the fate of ... persons?