Rheinmetal showed tests of a promising 130-mm tank gun Next Generation (NG) 130

Rheinmetal showed tests of a promising 130-mm tank gun Next Generation (NG) 130

Rheinmetall Weapons and Ammunition (division of the German group Rheinmetall) conducted fire tests of a new tank the Next Generation (NG) 130 cannon installed on the upgraded Challenger 2 tank.


The 130mm gun has a 51 caliber barrel (L51) and uses new high-strength steel and a chrome-plated barrel. Installed a vertical wedge breech and electric trigger of the shot. The gun has an increased volume of the chamber, which allows the use of an increased charge to obtain a higher initial velocity of the projectile and its armor penetration. The gun has a heat-insulating casing and a barrel bending control system.

The actual barrel length is 6,63 m, the total weight of the gun is 3 tons, including sliding mechanisms. This does not take into account the weight of the mounting elements for installation in the tower.

The first 130-mm ammunition has already been developed for the gun. According to Rheinmetall, it was an armor-piercing detachable projectile with a detachable pallet (APFSDS-T) with a semi-combustible shell, a new high-energy powder charge belonging to the category of detonation-insensitive, and a new, improved long-length tungsten armor-piercing core with increased armor penetration.

The development of a promising 130-mm smooth-bore tank gun Next Generation (NG) 130 and the sending of the first prototype for field tests in the press service of Rheinmetall was reported in December 2019. Rheinmetall plans to offer this gun as a potential weapon for the next generation US Army Next Generation Combat Vehicle (NGCV).

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  1. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 13: 04 New
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    Here the Germans know how to make beautiful cars. True, there are no tasks for this gun, a reserve for the future.
    1. figwam 1 August 2020 13: 10 New
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      Quote: Grazdanin
      Here the Germans know how to make beautiful cars.

      This is Challenger 2, an English tank.
      Quote: Grazdanin
      True, there are no tasks for this gun, a reserve for the future.

      Because of Armata, all the movement.
      1. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 13: 14 New
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        Quote: figvam
        Because of Armata, all the movement.

        Armata has other advantages, beyond armor is not included in them. 120mm is enough for Armata.
        1. figwam 1 August 2020 13: 18 New
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          Quote: Grazdanin
          Armata has other advantages, beyond armor is not included in them. 120mm is enough for Armata.

          You "specialists" know better.
          1. Hunter 2 1 August 2020 14: 35 New
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            Considering that there is no automatic loader on the Challenger, the weight of the projectile has clearly become larger, the loader - urgently, subscriptions to the fitness club are free ... yes
            1. LiSiCyn 1 August 2020 15: 17 New
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              Quote: Hunter 2

              Considering that there is no automatic loader on the Challenger,

              Nevertheless, ours would also have to attend to the increase in caliber to 152 ... Just because, to shoot down more feces. using KAZ or remote sensing units is much more complicated.
              Hi Aleksey. hi
              1. Hunter 2 1 August 2020 15: 25 New
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                Greetings Stas hi As far as I know, such works have been going on for a long time, directly for Armata. I can't say more precisely - since I'm not a tanker ... that's how I read this topic.
                1. LiSiCyn 1 August 2020 15: 36 New
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                  Quote: Hunter 2
                  such work has been going on for a long time,

                  Well, yes, even since Soviet times ... yes
                  On Armata, due to the limited party, you can put a promising weapon. And to use in case of conflict, as a long-range anti-tank "rifle". On tank dangerous directions. And all the rest 72,80,90 to support the infantry.
                  1. Albert1988 1 August 2020 23: 56 New
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                    Alternatively, it is quite possible to take a 152 mm gun (bring the 2A83 to at least 800-900 shots of the resource) and shoot from it exclusively with BOPS, which will essentially be a powerful tank destroyer.
                    1. Bad_gr 2 August 2020 13: 35 New
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                      We had a 130mm cannon at Object 785 (Chelyabinsk).
                      ".... The main armament was a powerful 130mm rifled cannon with 50 rounds of ammunition. This is the largest reserve of rounds among Soviet tanks of the second generation. Moreover, 30 rounds were in the automatic loader. Let me remind you that there were 72 of them in the AZ T-22. , and in MZ T-64 and T-80 - 28 pieces ..... "
                      Alas, I didn't go into production (Chelyabinsk residents were always unlucky with this).
                      1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 14: 51 New
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                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        The main weapon was a powerful rifled 130mm cannon with 50 rounds of ammunition.

                        This is the most important thing - no one needs a rifled gun on a tank now, 130 mm is needed only if it is a smooth bore ...
                      2. Bad_gr 2 August 2020 15: 46 New
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                        Quote: Albert1988
                        no one needs a rifled gun on a tank now

                        The gun existed in two versions - rifled and smooth. The developers of the gun believed that the rifled gun was more promising.
                      3. Albert1988 2 August 2020 19: 20 New
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                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        The gun existed in two versions - rifled and smooth.

                        If there was a smoothbore, then there is a reserve ...
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        The developers of the gun believed that the rifled gun was more promising.

                        Obviously it was a long time ago ...
                2. psiho117 2 August 2020 19: 53 New
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                  Quote: Albert1988

                  and shoot from it exclusively with BOPS, will in fact be a powerful tank destroyer.
                  The problem is that the fight against other tanks - for a modern MBT - is not even in 3rd place in the list of tasks.
                  1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 21: 58 New
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                    Quote: psiho117
                    The problem is that the fight against other tanks - for a modern MBT - is not even in 3rd place in the list of tasks.

                    This is in our understanding of MBT, in NATO MBT is more likely a tank destroyer.
                    Therefore, I noted that a hypothetical domestic MBT with a 152 mm gun would be more of an SPG than an MBT)
        2. ikrut 1 August 2020 15: 59 New
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          This new cannon is already equipped with an automatic loader. This is the new tower at Challenger - with a new cannon and machine gun.
          1. Bad_gr 2 August 2020 12: 44 New
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            Quote: ikrut
            This new cannon is already equipped with an automatic loader.

            Can you link to the original source of this information?
            1. ikrut 2 August 2020 15: 16 New
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              I don’t collect links. I read about it and watched a foreign video. How true this is - I can not judge. But it was written and said in the video.
              1. Bad_gr 2 August 2020 15: 49 New
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                Quote: ikrut
                I read about it and watched the video foreign

                Clear. And here, in the comments, there is a mention of the machine, like Leclerc's.
        3. sir.jonn 1 August 2020 16: 00 New
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          Quote: Hunter 2
          Considering that there is no automatic loader on the Challenger, the weight of the projectile has clearly become larger, the loader - urgently, subscriptions to the fitness club are free ...

          Why free? You can sell tickets.
        4. Ax Matt 1 August 2020 18: 05 New
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          I just think the Abrams have always had Negroes loaders ... And now with that, how? Now they will all rush into commanders ... wassat And the whites are not used to throwing logs into the furnace ... And in other NATO tanks (except Leclair). They will probably surrender soon ... not otherwise. good
    2. NEXUS 1 August 2020 19: 11 New
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      Quote: Grazdanin
      Armata has other advantages, beyond armor is not included in them.

      Seriously? Or maybe enlighten the dark, what kind of alloy is there and what is its thickness, and what can take it and what cannot? And then we got off the current from the palm trees and just greedily look into your mouth, so that you teach us stupid and direct. fellow
      Quote: Grazdanin
      120mm is enough for Armata.

      Seriously? wassat Exactly enough? In the forehead straight to the departure, I think you competently consider. wassat
      My sergeant to such clever men, when they were just called up, and ate the Internet, thinking that the smartest, asked one not tricky question-How many springs are in the AK-74? Answer without the help of Google, dear know-it-all.
      1. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 19: 31 New
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        How bombed laughing the parameters of Armata are an open secret and no one was impressed that 140 mm that 130 mm are redundant for him wink
        How many springs in the AK74, together with the sergeant, count yourself, they are saved wink
        1. NEXUS 1 August 2020 19: 34 New
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          Quote: Grazdanin
          How the parameters of Armata were bombed by an open secret and no one was impressed

          Did the developer of the performance characteristics throw you on the soap? laughing
          Quote: Grazdanin
          How many springs in Ak74, together with the sergeant, count yourself, their storage

          A curtain. lol
          1. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 19: 40 New
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            several decades of life were not in vain, he knows exactly how many springs in the AK fellow My congratulations hi
          2. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 23: 02 New
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            Did you count the springs?) If, yes, start recounting Armata in the army wink

            Purely by chance I came across))
            1. Albert1988 1 August 2020 23: 54 New
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              Quote: Grazdanin
              Did you count the springs?) If, yes, start recounting Armata in the army

              Did the army tell you personally how much reinforcement it has?
              I suggest - at least 40)))))
          3. Voyager 2 August 2020 00: 01 New
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            Andrey, this is a trololo. It is here in all specials. And in the nuclear submarine and in Poseidon and in the Armata and in the Su-57.
            1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 28 New
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              Quote: Voyager
              Andrey, this is a trololo. It is here in all specials. And in the nuclear submarine and in Poseidon and in the Armata and in the Su-57.

              What a valuable specialist is missing! Gune with BMPD, who was hanging around here at one time, such a change is growing!
              1. Voyager 2 August 2020 00: 44 New
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                Christmas tree sticks, for sure! And I thought, whom he reminds ...
        2. Albert1988 1 August 2020 23: 54 New
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          Quote: Grazdanin
          parameters of Armata open secret and nobody impressed

          Then the parameters in the studio))))
          And most importantly, proofs that these are real parameters wink
    3. Albert1988 1 August 2020 23: 52 New
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      Quote: Grazdanin
      over armor is not included in them

      Are you kidding me? More than a meter in frontal projection, powerful protection of the sides and the upper hemisphere, KAZ capable of shooting down BOPS ...
      Well, yes, armor is not included))))
  2. lucul 1 August 2020 17: 58 New
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    Because of Armata, all the movement.

    Indeed - only Armata was originally designed for 150 mm down in the base, and on western tanks a 120 mm ceiling. They will put 130/140 mm - the overload will be in many parameters.
    1. Albert1988 1 August 2020 23: 52 New
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      Quote: lucul
      They will put 130/140 mm - the overload will be in many parameters.

      Already - all attempts to put 140 mm on existing machines ended in nothing ...
  • Observer2014 1 August 2020 16: 41 New
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    Quote: Grazdanin
    Here the Germans know how to make beautiful cars. True, there are no tasks for this gun, a reserve for the future.

    yes Excessive now. Our caliber will increase. And is it worth the candle? no It’s not they who don’t need it.
  • vVvAD 3 August 2020 09: 57 New
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    Any designer will draw a beautiful car for you. To the point.
    The beauty of military equipment is manifested not only and not so much in an elegant appearance, but in an increase and a harmonious combination of mutually exclusive characteristics, which makes it possible to perform combat missions characteristic of this type of equipment better than analogues.
    And if at the same time it looks more elegant than a brick - it's already not bad.
    And about the aesthetic beauty of German technology - a subjective opinion. For me, for example, different.
  • Observer2014 1 August 2020 13: 07 New
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    Rheinmetall plans to offer this gun as a potential weapon for the next generation US Army Next Generation Combat Vehicle (NGCV).
    This gun, judging by the printed one, they want to offer to put it on the BMP. Strongly, however. Is that what they are planning for such a dinosaur? Twice the largest "Bradley"?wassat Wow, "shed" will be. Maybe someone is confusing something. I'm ready for a dialogue. Maybe I didn't understand what.
    Anyone interested in the help article VO
    NGCV program: a future replacement for M2 Bradley
    October 20 2017

    1. Albert1988 1 August 2020 23: 57 New
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      Quote: Observer2014
      Judging by the printed one, they want to offer this gun to the BMP.

      God forbid you! Why do you think so? The BMP will be 40 mm or so, but the modernized tanks want to stick this barrel.
  • Mountain shooter 1 August 2020 13: 08 New
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    Well, okay. The competition between armor and projectile continued. The projectile is probably separate loading. Otherwise, with such a "log" how to turn around? Automatic loader? Not provided in "Abrams". This means a new tank. This is for a long time.
    1. svp67 1 August 2020 13: 18 New
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      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The projectile is probably separate loading.

      Well no. Unitar ... they don't have such heavy shells, like our OFS
      1. Bashkirkhan 1 August 2020 13: 31 New
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        Interestingly, with a tungsten armor-piercing core. It's expensive. The states seem to use depleted uranium in their scrap, it is cheaper than tungsten.
        1. svp67 1 August 2020 13: 37 New
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          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          The states seem to use depleted uranium in their scrap, it is cheaper than tungsten.

          But radioactive ...
          1. Bashkirkhan 1 August 2020 13: 47 New
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            The main thing for capitalists is the price. In the United States, hundreds of thousands of tons of 238 isotope have accumulated (I do not know the exact figure). It needs to be stored and guarded, which is a lot of money. We combined business with pleasure - we found a use for it, and there is benefit, and they save money. And if someone from the tank's crew dies of leukemia, it's okay. And the Americans never thought about the civilian population.
            1. Ilshat 1 August 2020 14: 08 New
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              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              And if someone dies from the crew

              They will not be nihren, in general and at all ...
              238 emits an alpha particle and is held back by a cigarette paper.
              Not to mention the fact that radioactivity itself is negligible.
              1. svp67 1 August 2020 14: 43 New
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                Quote: Ilshat
                They will not be nihren, in general and at all ...

                The issue is still very controversial
                1. Ilshat 1 August 2020 14: 44 New
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                  There is nothing to argue about, half-life, etc. are well known.
                  1. svp67 1 August 2020 14: 54 New
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                    Quote: Ilshat
                    There's nothing to argue about here
                    Well, if so, I wish you to communicate with them more often ... At the beginning of the last century, uranium salts were also considered completely safe using them in everyday life, they gained knowledge and now they do not. In the 60s, the Orange defoliant was also considered safe for personnel working with it ...
                    1. Ilshat 1 August 2020 15: 02 New
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                      Salt is totally different, it's chemistry!
                      And people communicate with uranium wonderfully, they eat from it: https://ru.ebay.com/b/Uranium-Glass/50693/bn_92871339
                      "Neon blue petrolatum uranium glass eye wash rinse": https://www.ebay.com/itm/Neon-Blue-Vaseline-uranium-glass-Eye-wash-rinse-cup-holder-glow-cobalt-art- green / 303636369651
                    2. Blackmokona 1 August 2020 16: 04 New
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                      He was then considered safe and was actively used inside the United States in national parks and reserves for various jobs. (Until 1978) It was then that hysteria arose and prohibitions began.
                      I think just a new product came out and it was necessary to promote it
                    3. Free wind 1 August 2020 17: 45 New
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                      Orange was first used in the war with Japan, in 45, it was pure production, did not cause harm or disease. For Vietnam, it was made faster, and more, in violation of the production process, because of which dioxins were formed in the liquid, they caused all this crap. So its components are still used to control weeds, for example, the drug Tornado.
              2. lucul 1 August 2020 17: 46 New
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                They will not be nihren, in general and at all ...
                238 emits an alpha particle and is held back by a cigarette paper.
                Not to mention the fact that radioactivity itself is negligible.

                Come on, insignificant))) Since when has Uranium become safe for health? )))
              3. cat Rusich 1 August 2020 20: 55 New
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                llshat (-), The problem with "depleted uranium" is that after using a shell with a core made of such uranium, dust from uranium remains. This dust from "depleted uranium" eventually penetrates into the human body and begins to kill a person from the inside (you cannot fence yourself off from it). But the United States is using shells with "depleted uranium" overseas, and the problems of the "natives" with their health "do not care."
                1. Ilshat 1 August 2020 21: 02 New
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                  And how many they were looking for at least some consequences from this dust, but they did not find it ...
          2. KCA
            KCA 2 August 2020 07: 22 New
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            Uranium ore (not enriched uranium) is almost not radioactive, when mined from protective equipment, a respirator is enough so that dust does not get into the lungs
        2. voyaka uh 1 August 2020 15: 25 New
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          "The states seem to use dinner uranium in their scrap,
          it is cheaper than tungsten. "///

          It's not about the price. The uranium cone does not blunt during the steel punching process,
          but self-sharpens. Like a pencil in a sharpener.
          Tungsten does not have this feature.
          Uranium is more efficient than tungsten.
          But uranium dust is carcinogenic.
          1. A.TOR 1 August 2020 16: 31 New
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            Uranium pyrophor + the first name you specified, these are the reasons for use
      2. Free wind 1 August 2020 13: 56 New
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        Abrams has high-explosive concrete shells in ammunition, and high-explosive shells stuffed with steel balls., The weight is not small at all, I wonder where the myth about the absence of high-explosive shells came from. The machine will have to be shoved in. There have been developments for a long time, but somehow it does not suit them. The French, the Koreans stuck, I don't think the Americans are "well stupid"
        1. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 14: 05 New
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          Quote: Free Wind
          The machine will have to be shoved in. There have been developments for a long time, but somehow it does not suit them.

          The Abrams version with AZ was developed back in the 70s. AZ has many disadvantages that are critical for MBT: lower loading speed, restriction on the types of shells, fewer working hands for maintenance, less ammo, a cretic reduction in the rate of fire if the AZ breaks down.
          1. prodi 1 August 2020 15: 38 New
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            - a lower loading speed of the AZ - this is even when comparing sleeve and separately-charged ammunition, not a fact: in the T-64 type MZ, the components are loaded in one step;
            - the limitation on the length of the projectile is associated only with the carousel AZ, and even then it is not rigid;
            - AZ breakage is much less likely than shaking across the intersection, fatigue, bruised elbow or loader's finger; in addition, both of these vulnerabilities are present in the Abrams, Leopard and Merkava tanks (and this is not to mention the fact that the loader has to somersault the projectile "backwards" between the feed conveyor and the breech)
            - smaller bookmaker - fiction
            1. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 16: 09 New
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              AZ also has its advantages. The customer should choose based on his concept of warfare.
        2. svp67 1 August 2020 14: 44 New
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          Quote: Free Wind
          the weight is not small at all,

          There are, but they do not form the basis of the tank ammunition, since our OFS occupy at least 50% of the tank ammunition
      3. Nikolaevich I 1 August 2020 16: 31 New
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        Quote: svp67
        ... They do not have such heavy shells, such as our OFS

        In fact, a "high-explosive fragmentation" projectile with a controlled detonation is being developed for the 130-mm German cannon! It can even be called "fragmentation-beam" .. But the shells, indeed, unitary ...
    2. mvg
      mvg 1 August 2020 14: 34 New
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      Automatic loader? Not provided in "Abrams". This means a new tank. This is for a long time.

      Firstly, they know how to teach their goods, not like TV Zveda, where the T-90M was shown how it was at the test site, banged on the burnt down ancient T-64. As in a junkyard. Or Armata, at an umazh target, crookedly suspended, beats from the spot.
      And secondly, what does Abrams have to do with it? This is a new turret from Rheinmetall, on the Challenge 2 chassis, with a new engine.
      They will do the same with Abrams, remake the turret, put AZ instead of the Negro, the seven-wheel chassis will withstand, since the six-wheel is holding. Reduce the number of shots. Due to KAZ, the weight of the armor can be reduced. There is talk of a 2000 hp diesel.
      PS: So far, as I understand it, the armor wins the competition. So far, within the frontal part.
    3. Postum 1 August 2020 18: 47 New
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      This is not abrams
  • pytar 1 August 2020 13: 15 New
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    The Germans always knew how to make powerful guns! Accordingly, the price will probably be considerable!
    1. The leader of the Redskins 1 August 2020 13: 18 New
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      I agree with you. Only the weight of the projectile is alarming. They write that everything is enlarged. How much will it weigh then and how to manually charge it?
      1. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 13: 21 New
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        They can deliver AZ if the customer wants.
      2. pytar 1 August 2020 17: 35 New
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        How much will it weigh then and how to manually charge it?

        Not specified in the stat, but for this 130 mm gun, Rheinmetall also created an automatic loader. In one of the variants, a completely unfamiliar tower is provided, like the T-14.
        Video from the test of the new cannon, mounted in the classic Leo2 tower:
        1. disyptiformer 1 August 2020 20: 12 New
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          Automatic loader net. Absolutely. Like the "classic Leo2 tower". This is a demonstrator. Almost Ukraine.
          1. pytar 1 August 2020 22: 07 New
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            Automatic loader net. Absolutely. Like the "classic Leo2 tower". This is a demonstrator. Almost Ukraine.

            https://voennoedelo.com/posts/id6018-mfzleqpivsa57x7shfdt?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews
            According to the concern, the main distinguishing feature of the tank was the new 130-mm smoothbore gun, which is distinguished by significant combat effectiveness and paired with a modern automatic loader.
            The official Youtube channel of the German concern Rheinmetall Defense has published a video presentation of a new modification of the Leopard main battle tank, which is in service with the German army.

            Whether it is true or not, I cannot say. In any case, there is no doubt - if the Germans decided to make AZ, they did it or will do it.
            1. disyptiformer 1 August 2020 23: 10 New
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              Do you understand Russian at all? You do not read fascists, but study the evolution of the tank and, in particular, its turret. Find a video of the latest modifications, check out the dimensions of the developed feed niche in relation to the 6th roller. And then, maybe you ask yourself a question: "Can there be a horizontal automatic loader in this particular tower?" Where, where to insert it?
              [quote] [/ The gun loader is located at the rear of the turret in separate compartmentwhich is provided with panels .quote]

              Pay attention to where the observation devices of the gunner and commander are located

              1. pytar 2 August 2020 00: 16 New
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                Do you understand Russian at all?

                I am, but you are clearly not quite.
                You do not read fascists, but study the evolution of the tank and, in particular, its turret.

                No comments... lol
                the dimensions of the developed feed niche in relation to the 6th roller. And then, maybe you ask yourself a question: "Is there a horizontal automatic loader in this particular tower?

                Since there is no information yet, we can only make assumptions. Instead of 7 smaller ones, they put 6 large rollers. The length of the hull was preserved, and the tower at Lepard was already long. If a person carefully watches the video, the machine itself is shown in a split second!

                It is not known exactly how it was done, but back in 2013 there was an article on the VO on this occasion.

                Probably we are talking about the development of an American patent, probably the Germans managed to collect the ego in the existing dimensions, even with larger shells .:

                In short, instead of screaming "fascists" и "this can't be" better turn on the brains and ask. bully
                1. disyptiformer 2 August 2020 10: 50 New
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                  Because of such a stupid chutzpah, the state of the Bulgarians occupies the place it occupies in the world and in life. Sorry if it's harsh. hi
                  1. pytar 2 August 2020 11: 28 New
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                    Because of such a stupid chutzpah, the state of the Bulgarians occupies the place it occupies in the world and in life. Sorry if it's harsh.

                    Apparently this is all you can say about the Next Generation (NG) 130 tank gun ... lol
                    I apologize and forgive, in an empty barn, you will not find much. request

                    By the way, here is the article about steel of this colossus:
                    https://topwar.ru/173690-ng-130-na-14-tys-vystrelov-na-zapade-rabotajut-nad-markoj-stali-dlja-stvola-perspektivnoj-tankovoj-pushki.html
                    1. disyptiformer 2 August 2020 20: 22 New
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                      For representatives of the sunny country NATO:

                      Schaub you have driven such tanks all your life good
        2. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 02 New
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          Quote: pytar
          In one of the variants, a completely unfamiliar tower is provided, like the T-14.

          Not a completely uninhabited tower, but a carriage-type tower, where only a gun with an armored breech and instruments will rise above the hull, and the crew will sit in the hull in the turret space. Also a good option, especially if the BC is placed wisely.
          1. pytar 2 August 2020 00: 35 New
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            The note is correct! yes The option is really good, it has its advantages.
            1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 38 New
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              Quote: pytar
              The option is really good, it has its advantages.

              First of all, reducing the weight of the machine! The Americans at one time actively promoted it, it is not clear why they refused ...
  • 5-9
    5-9 1 August 2020 13: 15 New
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    Where to offer it? Well this is kind of like a BMP will be ... Light (40-45 tons), according to their concepts, a tank? In the current western MBT, this drin will rather not fit without changing the tower. Squeezing out something more than M829A4 from the current Rhine metal seems already unrealistic, and Armata and T-90AM are looming on the horizon
    1. Free wind 1 August 2020 14: 16 New
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      The British claim that a 140 mm cannon will also fit into the challenge, the width of the tower allows, the tower of the Abrams with leopards is also not small. And the Turks will certainly move their antennae, they will certainly want to shove them into their Altai.
      1. 5-9
        5-9 1 August 2020 15: 39 New
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        Do the British have this 140mm cannon? Or do they think so? I can still believe about them with their separate loading. They are no strangers. But the Germans with amers from unitars to a separate IS-2 with a rate of fire, too? AZ won't get anywhere. Or, you can alter everything so that it is easier to make a new tank.
        There has been no mass reserve in any Western tank for 20 years ... It will be necessary to facilitate something else
        1. Free wind 1 August 2020 17: 52 New
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          There is such fluff among the British, the French, even the Swiss, they are just thinking about what caliber to use, what to choose.
        2. voyaka uh 1 August 2020 18: 48 New
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          A full test cycle of a 140 mm tank gun in Israel was carried out
          even before 2000. And the shells are developed. In Merkava-4, the cannon is placed in
          the same tower. Of course, the ammunition load is reduced, it is more difficult to charge, etc.
          But the alteration was canceled as unnecessary.
          Developed new OBPS and "universal" projectiles for 120 mm.
      2. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 03 New
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        Quote: Free Wind
        The British declare that a 140 mm cannon will fit into the challenger

        They claim, but the question is how the design will react to the recoil of this very gun ...
      3. Bad_gr 2 August 2020 16: 05 New
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        Quote: Free Wind
        The British claim that a 140 mm cannon will fit into the challenger, the width of the tower allows

        We put a 152mm gun on the T-80 (Object 292)

        1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 19: 21 New
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          Quote: Bad_gr
          We put a 152mm gun on the T-80 (Object 292)

          Only it didn't feel good for him, in the end they decided to upgrade with a 2A82 gun (with an ejector).
          1. Bad_gr 2 August 2020 20: 38 New
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            Quote: Albert1988
            Only he didn't feel good about it, in the end they decided to upgrade with a 2A82 gun

            The gun was not intended for the T-80 - it was a stand for testing a gun for a promising tank (Object 299, etc.)
            1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 21: 57 New
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              Quote: Bad_gr
              The gun was not intended for the T-80 - it was a stand for testing a gun for a promising tank (Object 299, etc.)

              Well, the speech was for a serial installation, and not for whether it is possible, in principle, to cram)))
    2. Vadim237 1 August 2020 14: 21 New
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      It will not be a problem for them to create a new turret for this weapon - they will do it, a cannon with shells is done
      and looking at the shells of this 130 mm cannon, we can confidently assert an increase in firepower and armor penetration by 40% compared to the 120 mm one.
      1. 5-9
        5-9 1 August 2020 15: 41 New
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        So the fact of the matter is that the power will increase noticeably ... Where is the confidence that the new tower will be made easily? There is no weight reserve. What will be the loading?
        1. Vadim237 1 August 2020 16: 47 New
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          Actually, there are new reinforced bearings and torsion bars for the chassis and the problems of additional loading are solved. And the tower itself will not be a problem.
          1. 5-9
            5-9 1 August 2020 17: 22 New
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            This has already been done. .. From 55 to 62-65 tons we caught up ... with ground pressure what? What's with the engine? With a transmission?

            No problem to design? So easy and rppraz? And AZ? And how many tanks (not numerous today) will the R&D price be smeared?
            1. Vadim237 2 August 2020 12: 25 New
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              Already who who and the Germans and the engine will make the transmission, although with an increase in mass by two tons maximum, this is fucking unnecessary.
              1. 5-9
                5-9 2 August 2020 14: 10 New
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                Do you know what kind of filler is in the impressive beak of the A6 and A7? Armored air ... There is no mass reserve from the word in general even the day before yesterday
          2. Alex777 1 August 2020 17: 37 New
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            And how much will this tank weigh?
            When will the AZ and the new turret with the new cannon be delivered?
            It seems to me that this gun is being sculpted for a new Franco-German tank.
            1. 5-9
              5-9 1 August 2020 19: 17 New
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              So it seems to me ...
            2. Grazdanin 1 August 2020 20: 14 New
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              The new tower is already with AZ.
            3. Vadim237 2 August 2020 12: 26 New
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              Around 67 tons - is that a lot?
              1. Alex777 2 August 2020 13: 37 New
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                What are you talking about? About Challenger?
                How did you get 67 tons? Interesting.
                When I mentioned the weight of the tank, I had in mind the assumptions of my colleagues that the gun could be placed on the Abrams or even on the Merkava.
                For these two, in this case, the weight will become noticeable for 70 tons.
                Is it a lot? IMHO, quite a bit.
                Therefore, I suggested that fluff for a fundamentally new tank. hi
      2. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 08 New
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        Quote: Vadim237
        to assert with confidence about the increase in firepower and armor penetration by 40% compared to 120 mm.

        No, my friend, it's not that simple! it all depends on the mass of the projectile and its initial velocity, it may so happen that our 2A82 will not go far ahead ... Note that they worked precisely to reduce the mass of this weapon, which means they had to sacrifice something ...
        1. Vadim237 2 August 2020 12: 30 New
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          Or using new alloys with greater wear resistance and lower mass, as well as new gunpowder of increased power, and the very length of the sub-caliber projectile is increased by 40% and, accordingly, its mass and hence the kinetic energy and with it the corresponding armor penetration.
          1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 14: 54 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            new alloys with higher wear resistance and lower weight

            These parameters are not endlessly increased, so that in any case, a weapon of reduced weight will have lower strength characteristics.
            Quote: Vadim237
            as well as new powders of increased power

            This will work only if the barrel is much stronger, and if it has not grown much, then you cannot use particularly powerful gunpowder ...
            Quote: Vadim237
            and the very length of the sub-caliber projectile is increased by 40% and, accordingly, its mass, which means the kinetic energy and with it the corresponding armor penetration.

            The initial speed also plays a big role, and if the gun does not pull a much higher load, then the initial speed will not increase much ...
    3. mvg
      mvg 1 August 2020 14: 38 New
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      In the current western MBT, this drin will rather not fit without changing the tower.

      She has already climbed into the Leopard and Merkava tower on tests. This is a penny for the T-72/80/90. That BOPS is longer than 80 cm do not stick. It is not so easy on the T-90M another welded tower.
      1. 5-9
        5-9 1 August 2020 15: 46 New
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        So, like the AZ, even the T-72B3M was modified for longer shells?
        The new T-90AM turret is the removal of all shells previously crammed into the corners from the armor volume, except for 22x in the AZ in the first place.
        If real but got in and there were no problems (which is doubtful), then why are we talking about selling it to amers for the next project of welterweight armored vehicles?
        1. mvg
          mvg 1 August 2020 19: 56 New
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          So, like the AZ, even the T-72B3M was modified for longer shells?

          Doesn't fit, just nothing. Just physically. And Vaakum-90 does not fit into the T-1M either, which was also developed for the Armata for 2A82. Meter length.
          why is it about selling it to amers

          Decrypt?
          PS: For our 152 mm tank gun, they created new tank projects, a new 7-roller chassis, and a turret. Black Eagles, Object 95, 640, etc. It’s easier for Westerners, they didn’t save on the domestic volume. Both comfort and modernization. And the removal of ammunition from the tower with knockout panels. They did it right away.
          1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 13 New
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            Quote: mvg
            Doesn't fit, just nothing. Just physically. And Vaakum-90 does not fit into the T-1M either, which was also developed for the Armata for 2A82. Meter length.

            It can and easily fit into the T-90 - it is enough to modify the AZ - I suggest - in the AZ fittings the dimensions are exactly the same as in the T-90/72/80, because the hull width is the same! The problem is precisely in the cannon - the 2A82, although it was developed to modernize old vehicles (T-72/80, which was to be replaced by a promising tank), was not very suitable for this.
            1. mvg
              mvg 2 August 2020 00: 17 New
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              It can and easily fit into the T-90 - just modify the AZ - I suggest

              Just read it. I wrote from memory. Now I just checked it.
              [quote] [/ quote] https://topwar.ru/152610-2a82-i-vakuum-1-novinki-dlja-tankovyh-vojsk.html
              1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 23 New
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                Quote: mvg
                Just read it. I wrote from memory. Now I just checked it.

                Here! The problem was in the gun, and not in the AZ, moreover, the T-14, which has exactly the same hull width as the T-90, from something, everything fit without such radical alterations (which are in many ways just Khlopotov's fabrications), so the problem is clearly in the cannon. It is possible that the design simply does not pull the recoil of a new, more powerful weapon.
      2. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 10 New
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        Quote: mvg
        She has already climbed into the Leopard and Merkava tower on tests.

        They climbed there and 140 mm each, but their cars did not pull them ...
        1. mvg
          mvg 2 August 2020 00: 22 New
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          only their cars didn't pull

          The same is not true. I will not look for a link, read about Leopard Revolution. Even the rollback of the 140 mm cannon was reduced. Refused for other reasons. And the cannon was wonderful, only the muzzle energy increased by more than 1,5 times. Article about 3 years ago. And the Jews experienced the same.
          1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 25 New
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            Quote: mvg
            read about Leopard Revolution.

            This is a machine with a 120 mm gun, and also an old one, 44 caliber)))
            Quote: mvg
            Even the rollback of the 140 mm cannon was reduced.

            The rollback is less, so that when this huge breech rolls back, it does not blow half of the tower, but the force of recoil does not disappear from this ...
            Quote: mvg
            And the cannon was wonderful, only the muzzle energy increased by more than 1,5 times.

            I do not argue, only a new tank is needed for it, with a new turret, new suspension and a new hull)))
            1. mvg
              mvg 2 August 2020 00: 34 New
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              Here! The problem was the gun, not the AZ

              https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3493417.html
              // Actually, the 2A82 cannon got up instead of the 2A46M without any problems - all the mounting dimensions and mounting structure were the same. // This is a quote from an article, with pictures.
              This is a machine with a 120 mm gun, and also an old one, 44 caliber)))

              Excuse me, I didn’t say that there is 140 mm on the Revolution! It's just that in this article (a photo of the tank from the exhibition-presentation), the question was raised about this weapon. And about testing and expediency. A contract with Qatar for 18 Leo 2A7 units was just being discussed. If I don't confuse anything.
              1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 38 New
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                Quote: mvg
                Actually, the 2A82 gun got up instead of the 2A46M without any problems - all the landing dimensions and mounting design were the same. // This is a quote from an article, with pictures.

                This, as they say, is smooth on paper, but in the metal "ravines" can come across. It is not known how this weapon will be pulled by the machine itself without major alterations - how it will react to recoil, increased weight, etc.
                Quote: mvg
                Excuse me, I didn’t say that there is 140 mm on the Revolution! It's just that in this article (a photo of the tank from the exhibition-presentation), the question was raised about this weapon. And about testing and expediency. A contract with Qatar for 18 Leo 2A7 units was just being discussed. If I don't confuse anything.

                In fact, nowhere were official reasons for refusing 140 mm announced, since they are directly related to classified information. But the assumptions that are closest to reality are that the construction does not pull a new cannon, or the whole fall will become much more expensive.
                1. mvg
                  mvg 2 August 2020 00: 52 New
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                  the construction does not pull a new cannon, or the whole fall will become much more expensive.

                  https://naukatehnika.com/evropejskaya-pushka-protiv-armaty.html

                  A bunch of articles on this topic.
                  The experimental tank fired 200 shots.
                  Minimal turret alteration.
                  With an increase in caliber by 8%, muzzle energy increases by 50%
                  // these are quotes from the article //
                  1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 14: 50 New
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                    Quote: mvg
                    A bunch of articles on this topic.

                    And this, alas, is fiction, because the real data is classified ...
                    Quote: mvg
                    The experimental tank fired 200 shots.

                    Well, what are the problems? They fired two hundred shots, looked at what happens then with all the other elements of the car and made a decision ... And it turned out to be negative, which means there were very good reasons ...
                    Quote: mvg
                    Minimal turret alteration.

                    It may well be that for full operation, not a minimum ...
                    It was not for nothing that the Germans began to make a completely new 130 mm cannon, as lightweight as possible!
                    Quote: mvg
                    With an increase in caliber by 8%, muzzle energy increases by 50%

                    As well as recoil, and therefore the load on the structure ...
  • zwlad 1 August 2020 13: 26 New
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    A good cutting cake for the military-industrial complex.
    Why would a tank need such a powerful gun? To fight enemy tanks? So for this, helicopters and UAVs are more promising. Barmaleev can be driven by that technique that is. It is not clear how everything is.
    1. zwlad 1 August 2020 20: 20 New
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      Wow how minus
      1. tralflot1832 1 August 2020 20: 39 New
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        I have more fun. Today I'm going to the record. hi
  • Ramon Merkader 1 August 2020 13: 29 New
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    Less than half a year (century) has passed since a tank smoothbore ... However, it has not yet been registered)
    1. Free wind 1 August 2020 14: 22 New
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      Since 85, 120 mm smoothbore cannons have been installed on Abrams.
      1. Speedy 1 August 2020 17: 46 New
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        Well, by the way, since the Challenger is British, the smoothbore is an innovation for the Brita))!
        1. tralflot1832 1 August 2020 19: 56 New
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          The worst tank in NATO. 120 mm rifled gun. After a failure in NATO tank competitions, the Challenger gun showed low efficiency, England stopped participating in them. Challenger 1 is in service with Jordan. Only 420 units were produced.
      2. Ramon Merkader 2 August 2020 15: 25 New
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        Thank you.
        Chet had somehow lost sight of it.
  • tralflot1832 1 August 2020 13: 38 New
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    The adversaries began to stir. Why Challenger and not Lepa. He has more armor space in the tower than Lepa’s. They cut it out in front of Armata. Something ours said about 152 mm.
  • alex aircraft 1 August 2020 13: 40 New
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    It's time for us to revive 152 mm. tank cannon. the enemy is not asleep. from 120 he wants 130mm. and as for the decrease in ammunition, the power of the projectile increases especially of.
    1. Nikolaevich I 1 August 2020 20: 41 New
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      Quote: alex aircraft
      It's time for us to revive 152 mm. tank gun.

      Duc, on the 152-mm cannon the choice is not exhausted! We have already tested the 130-mm M65 cannon on Object 277, "... 279", "... 770" ... When we were working on "Object 195", we also considered 135-mm ... 140-mm guns ! 135-mm tank guns, in my opinion, were even tested! The conclusion on them was: they are superior to 120-mm NATO tank guns, but inferior to 140-mm NATO guns .... Considering that 140-mm tank guns are superior to 120-mm ... twice, and 130-mm gun - one and a half ..., then we can assume that this experienced 135-mm tank "Rushen" cannon will be equivalent to a 130-mm German gun!
      1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 15 New
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        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        we can assume that this experimental 135-mm tank "Rushen" cannon will be equivalent to a 130-mm German gun!

        The question is - we will have a gun without an ejector, which will increase the strength of the barrel, the Germans will have an ejector, that is, the strength characteristics of the barrel will be weaker, which is suggestive ...
  • Hydrography Bay Golden Horn 1 August 2020 14: 08 New
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    Skull of our Armata which has no analogues
    1. Vadim237 1 August 2020 16: 52 New
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      Yes, such a projectile T 14 will be able to penetrate the more multi-component BOPS longer than 1000 mm.
      1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 16 New
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        Quote: Vadim237
        Yes, such a projectile T 14 will be able to penetrate the more multi-component BOPS longer than 1000 mm.

        He just needs to fly first))) Afghanite, you know, such a projectile will not miss))))
        1. Vadim237 2 August 2020 12: 31 New
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          Will not miss - but will intercept the big question.
          1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 14: 55 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            Will not miss - but will intercept the big question.

            If it intercepts the current BOPS, then this one will intercept, maybe with minor modifications. Moreover, even Eali will not be able to completely knock him off course, he can critically change the trajectory ...
  • Pavel57 1 August 2020 14: 28 New
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    The Challenger needs to be re-equipped with a new gun. This will be the first with a 130mm gun.
  • Hwostatij 1 August 2020 14: 32 New
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    A new gun is good, of course. But if you attach it to the tank, how will the ammunition, loading time, total weight and cost of the vehicle change? Is it worth the candle?
  • Hydrography Bay Golden Horn 1 August 2020 14: 59 New
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    Challenger is the best tank in the world, the ideal is a designer thought, an awesome perspective for modernization is laid
    1. 5-9
      5-9 1 August 2020 15: 47 New
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      I've heard for a long time that drug addicts copy each other from afar ..
    2. tralflot1832 1 August 2020 19: 38 New
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      Let your Challenger be slaughtered. There will be one Panzer division left in the UK. It will consist of one Challenger regiment and one light tank regiment. This is where the British tank building ends. The Liberals are in power, you know.
  • Zaurbek 1 August 2020 15: 10 New
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    We have to wait what basic caliber NATO will accept.
    1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 17 New
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      Quote: Zaurbek
      We have to wait what basic caliber NATO will accept.

      This is really interesting, I think there will be a lot of experiments))))
      1. Zaurbek 2 August 2020 00: 21 New
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        130mm and 140mm. There are statistics on them. The main thing is that the American army will choose. But there is no need yet.
        1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 27 New
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          Quote: Zaurbek
          130mm and 140mm.

          You can also think of 135 - they are not very limited in this regard, unlike us.
          Quote: Zaurbek
          The main thing is that the American army will choose. But there is no need yet.

          the Americans are still looking towards light vehicles with the possibility of quick transfer, so the question is what will happen with the new calibers.
          It may so happen that the entire change in caliber will remain only in Europe - "to restrain legions of armatures"))))
          1. Zaurbek 2 August 2020 08: 58 New
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            Why think. European firms and the United States have tested 130 and 140mm barrels and projectiles for a long time. The question, most likely, is whether to make a new tank with a heavy 140mm cannon or to stay on the "old" platforms with a 130mm cannon. So far, their 120mm L55 cannon ensures the defeat of all our equipment and shoots the 2A46 in range and accuracy, due to the greater energy and more developed control system.
            1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 14: 57 New
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              Quote: Zaurbek
              The question, most likely, is whether to make a new tank and a heavy 140mm cannon or to stay on the "old" platforms with a 130mm gun.

              It’s not even a fact that all old ones will fit painlessly and cheaply 130 mm, so it may happen that you will have to make a completely new car.
              Quote: Zaurbek
              While their 120mm gun L55

              So far, it is only on Leo, and then on a very small amount. Americans do not want to set it up out of principle.
  • Alien From 1 August 2020 15: 25 New
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    Rheinmetal has tremendous experience in production, this cannot be taken away from them.
    1. lucul 1 August 2020 17: 51 New
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      Rheinmetal has tremendous experience in production, this cannot be taken away from them.

      No more than ours ...
      1. Alien From 1 August 2020 18: 05 New
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        More, all information in open sources)
      2. Zaurbek 2 August 2020 00: 22 New
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        More than ours ... like all European companies
        1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 14: 58 New
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          Quote: Zaurbek
          More than ours ... like all European companies

          Quote: Alien From
          More, all information in open sources)

          In this case, the experience in the production of rifled barrels from 70 years ago is not of particular importance, and the experience in the production of smooth-bore tank guns is certainly no less ...
  • avdkrd 1 August 2020 16: 07 New
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    Not good news. 130mm will allow for a large increase in penetration.
    1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 00: 18 New
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      Quote: avdkrd
      Not good news. 130mm will allow for a large increase in penetration.

      Of course, it is a good incentive for ours to force the development of large calibers))))
      1. Voyager 2 August 2020 00: 46 New
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        * IS-7 enters the chat and asks to hold his beer *
        1. Albert1988 2 August 2020 14: 59 New
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          Quote: Voyager
          * IS-7 enters the chat and asks to hold his beer *

          Eh, no, my friend, Yosya had a rifled shot, but we need a smooth-bore ... These, as they say in Odessa, are two big differences))))
  • Pandiurin 1 August 2020 16: 14 New
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    Quote: svp67
    Quote: Bashkirkhan
    The states seem to use depleted uranium in their scrap, it is cheaper than tungsten.

    But radioactive ...


    Depleted uranium, not radioactive.
    Even the tablets of enriched uranium used for nuclear power plant fuel cells are not radioactive. In order to start decay processes in it, you must first irradiate well.

    But uranium belongs to heavy metals, has carcinogenic properties, crumbles under mechanical action (not plastic, forms dust). In short, a toxic chemical.

    Under international agreements, do not include nuclear materials with which special handling is required.

    Those. you need to guard like a regular warehouse with lead. When overloading, try not to turn over so that dust does not form, work with gloves and a respirator.

    The cost of depleted uranium is really small, but in fact for the one who stores it, it is negative.
    It is possible that in the development of fast neutron nuclear power plants it will be used as one of the fuel components.
  • zenion 1 August 2020 16: 23 New
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    The next generation gun.
  • Klingon 1 August 2020 20: 55 New
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    +1
    Quote: Hunter 2
    Considering that there is no automatic loader on the Challenger, the weight of the projectile has clearly become larger, the loader - urgently, subscriptions to the fitness club are free ... yes

    it's just a demonstrator. by this the Germans wanted to show that, in principle, they can shove this gun into any NATO tank. By the way, the PDF from Rheinmetall says: "Rheinmetall is also developing an unmanned 130mm demonstrator turret featuring
    automated ammunition flow. "with a projectile weight of 30 kg, respectively, all serial samples will be equipped with a conveyor-type AZ. as at Leclerc.
    1. Vadim237 2 August 2020 12: 34 New
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      With such a gun and shells - all the enemy tanks of the Khan, including our T 90M.
  • Klingon 2 August 2020 14: 02 New
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    Quote: Vadim237
    With such a gun and shells - all the enemy tanks of the Khan, including our T 90M.

    naturally, the armor will just crack like a nut, if, as before, they ignore the topic of KAZ, although whether KAZ can shoot down such crowbars is still a big question