The timing of the creation of VNEU for Russian diesel-electric submarines has become known

An air-independent (anaerobic) power plant (VNEU) for diesel-electric submarines will be created by the end of 2023. This was stated by the General Director of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) Alexei Rakhmanov in an interview with the National Defense magazine.

According to Rakhmanov, design work is currently underway within the framework of the state contract concluded in October 2019 between the Rubin Central Design Bureau and the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia for the creation of a prototype shipboard VNEU.

Design work is in progress. However, the decision on the practical implementation of this technology in specific projects will be made only based on the results of the contract - no earlier than the end of 2023

- he said.

It is assumed that the first VNEU will be installed on Project 677 Lada submarines, which has already been repeatedly announced. The use of an air-independent installation on the Amur-1650 submarines intended for export is also being considered. Russia proposed to build such diesel-electric submarines for India.

It should be noted that in addition to the Rubin Central Design Bureau MT, the Malakhit Marine Bureau is also developing its own air-independent installation for diesel-electric submarines, and the work is being carried out on an initiative basis.

The use of VNEU relieves the ship from the need to float to the surface to recharge the batteries and replenish the air supply necessary for the operation of diesel generators in a submerged position. Finding diesel-electric submarines with VNEU under water can reach 14 days without surfacing.

Comments

[Tuzik]

still rechargeable batteries like the Japanese.

[Cyril G ...]

We have AS-31 and the Americans have a small sabotage submarine on lithium-ion batteries already blazed. Now it's the Japanese turn ...
The battery needs to be improved

[Vlad T]

Whose supply of batteries, RUSNANO or foreign, are all equally hostile .... A case from practice. During the Yeltsin period of kissing with the United States, cadmium batteries were supplied from the United States, Six months later, the vast majority failed, because in a cell of 24 batteries one usually failed, the whole assembly is not working ... Perhaps now more abruptly, with a fire ... Our successful managers only know how to sniff imports and count kickbacks ...

[Narak-zempo]

Batteries are unpredictable. From personal practice with household fingers NiMH of one very well-known brand - after a few cycles, the capacity of the cans diverges by 10 percent, and when working in an assembly, where the common charging channel is a quick death of the battery. For other manufacturers, the picture is even worse.

[Vlad T]

You do not understand, the delivery was a calculated sabotage ... There is a percentage of refusals, but when they do not fit into any framework and bring the greatest losses, this is called a premeditated act, miscalculation of sabotage ...

[svp67]

The timing of the creation of VNEU for Russian diesel-electric submarines has become known

So they were previously known: "after the rain on Thursday."
The whole problem is the lack of funding.

[sav]

Quote: svp67

The whole problem is the lack of funding.

Well, maybe they will start financing now? As if, it's time already!

[Uncle lee]

I read that the project was closed because of something else ... We will wait 23 years.

[Lexus]

Continuation of the "old wet tale". Soon it will be the third decade, as the staples "are fed / watered" unrestrainedly "with the products of diesel fuel reforming on board. During this time, even the small shipyard Kockums in Karlskrona (Sweden), which, in spite of our multi-billion dollar cuts, Saab bought from the previous owner for a ridiculous 35 million euros, are hopelessly behind.

[svp67]

Quote: sav

As if, it's time already!

It should have been a pose ... the day before yesterday.

[AUL]

Quote: svp67

So they were previously known: "after the rain on Thursday."

So after a year and a half ago already promised that "just about"! And, most importantly, there were already potential customers abroad! And now again "just about". Stability, however ...

[svp67]

Quote: AUL

Stability, however ...

At least in something ... sad

[Alex777]

The whole problem is the lack of funding.

The problem of lack of funding arose after an insane amount of lard left without any decent result.
When it became clear that there was no return, then there was a problem with financing.
Let's hope that the repeated "approach to the projectile" will be successful. And that is a disgrace to the whole world. Koreans, Turks, not to mention the leaders (Japanese, Swedes, Germans, French) - have done everything VNEU, but we cannot do anything.

[Seaflame]

Underfunding for decades has given rise to another problem - a lack of highly qualified personnel. Now this is perhaps the most serious problem. Even if good money is poured in today, great engineers and designers will not appear tomorrow ... Now years are needed!

[senima56]

This topic "Air-independent (anaerobic) power plant (VNEU) for diesel-electric submarines" as "replacement for the PM pistol" or "replacement of the AN-2 aircraft" is endless!

[Alien From]

This official has already kicked up to rattle! Pulled up !!!!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Alien From

This official has already kicked up to rattle! Pulled up !!!!

Now he has promised, after the promised three years, he will be transferred to another place, the new official will also promise to create VNEU in three years. "And nothing has changed..."

[Alien From]

Unfortunately, that's the way it is !!!

[Nike]

And where would this official have been under Stalin? .. this is the same, knowing that there will not be, and so he promises, and will continue to promise-chatter because he will not be excommunicated from the soft chair.

[Alexey from Perm]

to promise - not to build.

[prior]

"The timing of the creation of VNEU for Russian diesel-electric submarines has become known"

NEVER!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Rubin worked at VNEU for a very long time and failed all the work on it, so the stop of funding there was more than justified. Why now they think that he will cope with VNEU - I have no idea.

[rudolff]

Rubin, this is a court office. A very powerful lobby, like MIT and Solomonov some time ago. A lot gets away with it and orders are always secured. They sculpted VNEU for ten years and frankly screwed up. However, like the LIABs for the submarine.

[novel66]

swore by my mother!

[Andrey Zhukov]

Everyone already has vneu, except Russia.
This is purposeful sabotage and sabotage

[Stena]

Quote: Andrey Zhukov

Everyone already has vneu, except Russia.
This is purposeful sabotage and sabotage

Exactly! Are we a gas station country? Did you find yourself in the trash heap and slurp cabbage soup?
And especially in the Navy and specialized research institutes and design bureaus. They graduated from the wrong universities and gave them all scientific degrees, or maybe they just bought them - after all, everyone knows - you can buy any diploma in the Moscow metro?
Not tired of posting such nonsense yet?
They do not develop it because they have achieved the same results in other directions. At lower costs in terms of cost-effectiveness.
Who - "everyone" has it? The Swedes (that is, the Germans) and the Japs? So they don't have nuclear submarines. And in the coming years, it will not.
And the best VNEU is a compact nuclear reactor.

[Andrey Zhukov]

How much is atomic ash and how much is the fret with vneu, smart guy?

[Stena]

Quote: Andrey Zhukov

Everyone already has vneu, except Russia.
This is purposeful sabotage and sabotage

"And the shaman has three arms and a wing over his shoulder" (C).
It’s so with everyone, but you don’t yet. Run to Brovary, not far from your IPSO center, - they say, all this can be delivered cheaply there.

Quote: Andrey Zhukov

How much is atomic ash and how much is the fret with vneu, smart guy?

"And I have a throat. A throat. And a head? A head. No brains?" (FROM).
The question is in the effectiveness of solving a combat mission at minimum costs in terms of cost-effectiveness. And not about

Quote: Andrey Zhukov

How much is atomic ash and how much is the fret with vneu

There is no evidence that a boat with VNEU performs a combat mission better than without VNEU.
Therefore, the question of the expediency of VNEU is very controversial.
And taking into account the UUV - and double.

[Andrey Zhukov]

Therefore, the question of the expediency of VNEU is very controversial.

Five points! This is the level ...
Even answer broke ..

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Stena

And the best VNEU is a compact nuclear reactor.

The topic has been developed since the 60s, a suspended small reactor. Now there are no technological problems in equipping diesel-electric submarines with a small reactor. There are political more.

[Stena]

Quote: Cyril G ...

The topic has been developed since the 60s, a suspended small reactor. Now there are no technological problems in equipping diesel-electric submarines with a small reactor. There are political more.

I know, thanks - Dollezhal's egg.
I just do not like it when my native country is all sorts of local "woe-from-umists" and "it's good where their netists", as well as representatives of various IPSOs, try to show something like Lapotnaya Rus without knowing the real situation and analyzing the facts.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Stena

They do not develop it because they have achieved the same results in other directions. At lower costs in terms of cost-effectiveness.

No need to fantasize, please. VNEU has been developed by Rubin for 10 years already, and they began to invent it back in the USSR

Quote: Stena

And the best VNEU is a compact nuclear reactor.

Would you go to learn the materiel before writing such nonsense

[Stena]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

No need to fantasize, please. VNEU has been developed by Rubin for 10 years already, and they began to invent it back in the USSR

O great specialist in the field of VNEU! Please tell us the story of "how they began to invent it back in the USSR" and why haven't they finished it yet? If not difficult, with links to specific individuals involved in the development and, if not difficult, their brief role in projects. Again, as an expert, it may not be difficult for you to indicate the names of specific R&D and R&D projects on this topic? Can it be as simple as writing about the urgent need for aircraft carriers in the Russian Federation, in the presence of hypersonic weapons, could you give a comparative analysis of the effectiveness of using VNEU, diesel engines, nuclear power plants on submarines made in the framework of R&D on this topic?
I would really wait for such information from such a well-deserved specialist in the field of real service in the Navy, as well as a specialist (what can I say) - a great scientist in the field of power plants for submarines.

[rudolff]

"If it does not complicate, with references to specific individuals involved in the development and, if not difficult, their brief role in projects. Again, for you as an expert, perhaps it will not be difficult to indicate the names of specific R&D and R&D projects on this topic?"
And you don’t need to provide sugar analyzes of the entire engineering and design staff?
No other country in the world had such experience in creating VNEU, which was accumulated by the Soviet Union. Immediately after the war, these were Walter engines, then "lighters" with closed-cycle diesel engines, there were also compact nuclear power plants VAU-6, and just before the collapse of the VNEU Union into EHG. These are not just R&D projects, but real ships built in metal. In the latter case, this is the 613E Katran project of the late 80s. According to the test results, the creation of the installation was recognized as successful. You can google at your leisure.

[Stena]

Quote: rudolff

And you don’t need to provide sugar analyzes of the entire engineering and design staff?

Is this an important parameter for VNEU operation? =).

Quote: rudolff

No other country in the world had such experience in creating VNEU, which was accumulated by the Soviet Union. Immediately after the war, these were Walter engines, then "lighters" with closed-cycle diesel engines, there were also compact nuclear power plants VAU-6, and just before the collapse of the VNEU Union into EHG. These are not just R&D projects, but real ships built in metal. In the latter case, this is the 613E Katran project of the late 80s. According to the test results, the creation of the installation was recognized as successful. You can google at your leisure.

Thank. I know about some of the topics you described.
My question is that, given the enormous potential of the Russian Federation, they did not (we do not announce) VNEU, although there are opportunities. There are significant substantive reasons for this, not the amount of funding.
Here is someone under the nickname Andrey from Chelyabinsk writes:

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Would you go to learn the materiel before writing such nonsense

This means that he possesses essential information on these issues. Apparently he had a connection in some R&D on this topic or with real anaerobic (and their analogs) engines. And perhaps it is directly related to the sea - perhaps he served in the Navy. That is, it is not difficult for a person to explain the substantive part of the issue, including why, given the availability of human, scientific, and other potentials for the development and implementation, this has not yet been done, with all the supposedly promising nature of such engines.

[rudolff]

Do not compare the scientific and technical potential of the USSR and modern Russia. In some areas, we not only did not increase the existing stock of knowledge, but also mediocrely lost it. Degradation, loss of competencies.
Specifically about VNEU, we are not in a position to make an installation that meets at least the minimum requirements. One problem is fuel cells. Our fuel cells were obtained much more expensive than their German counterparts and with much lower productivity. Now it is not customary to talk about this, but before the well-known sanctions war, we negotiated with Germany on the supply of German fuel cells for the EHG of our VNEU. Hence, such an abundance of bravura reports about their own successes at that time. The shop closed and we sat down slightly in a puddle. And not only with VNEU. Rubin and with the usual installation successfully screwed up the Lada project. Head St. Petersburg is still in experimental. There was not a single order for the Cupids either, although the models were regularly transported to all salons and exhibitions.
Rubin in general could not be appointed the main executor for VNEU. They took on the role of a fine-mesh money filter, and all the main work in fact was carried out at the Central Research Institute of Electronic Technology, at SKBK, at NPO Energia, at the Ural Chemical Plant, etc. Malachite will sooner finish his turbine to mind and without any external funding than Rubin will do his own. Unfortunately, Malachitovskaya VNEU is still only for submarines up to one kiloton.
The situation with VNEU is very similar to that with UAVs. The USSR had colossal experience in the development and creation of UAVs. Both propeller and turbojets. In the palaces of the pioneers, model aircraft circles worked. I myself remember sitting over the radio with a soldering iron. Even Buran was. And now? We buried hundreds of millions of dollars in the ground and finally came out several years ago to the level of those very aircraft modeling circles. We will modestly keep silent about the copies of the Israeli Sichers.
That's the whole secret of Punchinelle. And with a compact nuclear power plant, a slightly different range of problems.

[Lexus]

Dear Rudolph!
MANY THANKS for your detailed comments! I, of course, am not a professional, especially of the same level as you, but I assumed something similar, analyzing information from various open sources.

[vVvAD]

A compact nuclear reactor has its own characteristics: at least the price and environmental risks + specialists will add a dozen.
You should not nod at the Swedes and the Japanese: although the former are considered a "legend" for their ability to blend in with background noise, the Stirling engine is not capable of rapid mode changes and provides snail speed. And 636.3 are capable of merging with background noise. Japanese battery submarines are very expensive just because of the price and volume of the battery. But the Germans and the French really managed.
The work was curtailed, apparently without reaching the target parameters of the TTZ. I remember that options for an electrochemical generator and a gas turbine engine were considered.
And the fact that now VNEU is engaged in 2 designers is good. And it would be good just for different technologies (according to the technology developed by Rubin VNEU I do not have information): you can see with your own eyes the advantages and disadvantages of both types. And competition in such a business can be a magic pendel

[Nastia makarova]

so not really necessary

[Sahalinets]

Yeah. At one time, Chirkov promised to complete the development of VNEU in 2015-16, and already in 2017 the first submarine with this thing was to be built ...

[Galleon]

So I imagine how over the engineers who are solving some difficult technical or technological problem, there is something in a tie with fish eyes, and in an attempt to explain the situation, he says: - you just give me one - give me a time limit.

[bayard]

Quote: Galleon

you only give me one thing - give me the term.

And it was SO motivated !!!
We must revive.
Sharashki are the locomotive of progress.

[Drugov]

Well, as they say, by that time either the donkey or the padishah. How many terms were named, but things are still there.

[Setavr]

I was still in school. In the late 90s there was a magazine called "Military Parade". So it was from there that I learned that "next Monday" in Russia, Lada with VNEU will be adopted ...

[Alex 2020]

Wai! I have even preserved the sewing of these magazines, as well as the catalogs from this series. They had a lot that will be in service tomorrow ... twenty years have passed ...

[dgonni]

And that somewhere a cardinal technical breakthrough happened and they will be able to do in 3 years what they could not do in 20?

[novel66]

spies contributed ..

[123456789]

I was still in school. In the late 90s there was a magazine called "Military Parade". So it was from there that I learned that "next Monday" in Russia, Lada with VNEU will be adopted
A little son came to his father and asked:
- Dad, why does the cow have an udder between her legs, and our mother has a sissy between her arms?
- It's just that your mom's son has an ass instead of a head!

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Yes, there is an interesting story with these Russian VNEU ... A couple of years ago, when they lowered the boat, which was planned for VNEU, and everyone was violently happy at first without understanding, they threw me, as usual, a bunch of dislikes for the remark that the boat was not from VNEU ...
But over the hill, a couple of countries have boats with VNEU. Although none of the happy owners have violent joy. Looks like there are significant problems.
I think when the Russian VNEU is made, it will be a good VNEU. But when ???

[vahpus]

The timing of the creation of VNEU for Russian diesel-electric submarines has become known

Probably it would be more correct: The REGULAR PLANNED terms of creation of VNEU for Russian diesel-electric submarines became known.

[Ryaruav]

as it was said in one film: even if you bring together 9 pregnant women together, they will not give birth to a child in a month, the idea should mature, and then, like, take it out and put it down by 2023. at least someone can say about the exploitation of eu data abroad that they are 100% positive and can be used in a combat, namely a combat situation, otherwise advertising, as we were convinced, is the case ...

[Vovanya]

Quote: dzvero

Stirling's companions are in third.

Stirling is somewhat underestimated - all of his reserves lie in the correct organization of the thermodynamic cycle, and we have problems with this - copying the experience of "partners". Although Swedish Stirling is working, it is also not ideal, because in it, the power take-off for squeezing the working fluid is very large, so it is slow-moving. There is a solution, but this topic is really difficult, but also more effective, I would give it first place, because its specific power can be significantly higher (when using modern materials).

[chenia]

Quote: Vovanya

in it, the power take-off for squeezing the working fluid is very large,

The Stirling cycle is efficient, but a reciprocating conversion machine will not allow it to be realized with the required efficiency. Although there is a solution - unidirectional and continuous movement of the working fluid in the system.

[Vovanya]

there is no sense in unidirectionality, because regeneration will suffer. There are so many problems in the rotary machine that they will drown the project.

[chenia]

Quote: Vovanya

no, because regeneration will suffer

What for? Recuperator. And unidirectionality and continuity allow you to get rid of dead volumes.
And for with a reciprocating transformation, dead volumes are fatal (kills efficiency with rpm instantly) for efficiency .. And rpm is power. ...
Well, the dimensions are still the same.

[chenia]

Quote: chenia

allow you to get rid of dead volumes.

I'm getting old, however, I was wrong. It will be right - get rid of on dependence from dead volumes.

[rudolff]

"The creation of an air-independent power plant (VNEU) for the 5th generation submarines of the Kalina project has been completed," RIA Novosti quotes an excerpt from the report of the Rubin Central Design Bureau for 2015.
Earlier, the director of the Central Design Bureau Igor Vilnit reported that the sea tests of the VNEU should be conducted in 2016.
“As part of the Kalina-VMF research work, work has been successfully completed to create a VNEU for non-nuclear submarines,” the report says.
And even earlier, the readiness of VNEU for Lada / Amur was just as cheerfully declared. And how Kristall-27 is being successfully rolled in Sarov. And about that ...
And they don't even blush!

[K298rtm]

And I’m old, I thought that we already have VNEU - it’s on Poseidon.

[Petrol cutter]

On the Don there is a nuclear reactor in accordance with GOST. Did you again go out to smoke somewhere during the meeting? ...

[czes]

I did not notice Rakhmanov's enthusiasm for VNEU in his interview. And in general, why crow about it while they are not in the ranks.

[Petrol cutter]

As life shows, in “Ruby” they are not very stupid guys.
And they, the falcons, as they develop, they will develop it (with all the accompanying documentation) and also send the designer. To resolve issues on the ground. This tea is not some British scientists ...