US Air Force orders development of mini-missiles for self-defense of fighters

American combat aircraft will soon receive special miniature missiles for self-defense against enemy missiles. According to NPlus1 with reference to DefPost, the US Air Force Research Laboratory has summed up the results of the competition for this development, announced back in 2016.

The American company Raytheon won the competition for the creation of miniature self-defense missiles (MSDM, Miniature Self Defense Missile). In addition to her, Lockheed Martin and Boeing participated in the competition. Raytheon will have to design, assemble and test multiple ammunition. $ 93,4 million is allocated for prototyping and testing.

The company should complete the development of the rocket and its tests under this project by October 2023. Based on the results, a decision will be made to conclude a contract for the serial production of ammunition and its supply to the troops.

Details of the project itself were not disclosed. Among the known requirements for the new ammunition are the ability of MSDM to target an enemy missile and hit it with a direct hit and that the missile length should not exceed a meter.

The Air Force command is confident that the presence of MSDM will allow American fighters to operate in the so-called restricted or restricted maneuver zones (A2 / AD).

Comments

[Thrifty]

Aha, place fifty on the wings of aircraft on each wing money has nowhere to go, the Yankees are doing nonsense

[Lopatov]

Quote: Thrifty

money has nowhere to go, the Yankees are doing nonsense

Exactly.
After all, the Israelis tested a similar system back in 20011, Fliker from "Raphael"

[Finches]

I immediately thought about the Jews - I read about these systems in "Foreign Military Review", but here, as they say, the rich have their own quirks!

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: Spade

After all, the Israelis tested a similar system back in 20011, Fliker from "Raphael"

This is not exactly what the Americans want, and they hardly buy weapons abroad.
Fliker is designed to protect helicopters from MANPADs.
Air Force Technology has published a ranking of the 10 most effective air-to-air missiles for 2019. In this ranking, Python 5 is named in 4th place, I-Derby ER - in 7th, manufactured by Raphael.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

This is not exactly what Americans want.

That
It just works at high speeds.

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

and they practically do not buy weapons abroad.

Buy. In extreme cases, production licenses.

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

Fliker is designed to protect helicopters from MANPADs.

It's actually an RPG.

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

Air Force Technology has published a rating

Did they publish a rating of the effectiveness of health systems?

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: Spade

Did they publish a rating of the effectiveness of health systems?

And this, which side to this article?

[Lopatov]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

And this, which side to this article?

It's just that the American "ratings" should not be trusted. Confirmed by practice

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: Spade

It's just that the American "ratings" should not be trusted.

And who should?

[Lopatov]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

And who should?

See for yourself.
But American ratings are unambiguously false.

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: Spade

are unambiguously deceitful.

And all the same, from your personal experience, WHO DOES NOT HAVE LIES?

[JD1979]

Quote: Thrifty

Aha, place fifty on the wings of aircraft on each wing money has nowhere to go, the Yankees are doing nonsense

Uh-huh, first we laugh and twist our finger at our temples, then we start screaming about the lost polymers and calling on heavenly punishments on the Moscow Region that they did not do the same. Hooray-patriots, they are so ...

[Grazdanin]

Yeah, they are uryakly. If in a couple of days the same news comes out about us, the reaction will be the opposite.

[Thrifty]

Citizen - any aircraft with ammunition suspended on an external sling is seen on the radar screens even worse than a Christmas tree! And these missiles are, first of all, an additional reflective surface! With good air defense, how far will the aerial illumination fly?

[Grazdanin]

F35 / F22 can store missiles of this size in internal compartments, without affecting the main load. F15 / 16/18 and so will go with suspended missiles or bombs.

[Thrifty]

F22 / 35, when the bomb bays are opened, will they also reveal themselves, or will the Yankees launch aircraft with the bomb bay doors removed? The idea of ​​such missiles is not suitable specifically for a fighter; it is just an option, a container with similar missiles under the wing of a "strategist"!

[Grazdanin]

If an anti-aircraft missile is flying towards the F35, does it mean that it has already been found? For example after launching missiles?
Such missiles can be delivered to the driven UAVs of the UTAP-22 or XQ-58 type, just the tests are being carried out.

Quote: Thrifty

container with similar missiles under the wing of a "strategist"

On the B-2 or what? Placing on a fighter does not negate the installation of these missiles and related equipment on other types of aircraft.

[Thrifty]

A citizen is on Tu95, and Tu160 is possible, but the fighter itself is a good high-speed and maneuverable aircraft, capable of also evading an enemy missile. Besides, what is the effectiveness of such missiles, what percentage of aircraft, and at what speeds can they hit? I am more than sure that the game is not worth the candle - a small rocket will be ineffective against a maneuvering and fast-flying fighter, and I am generally silent about faster air-to-air missiles. ...

[mehan]

When F22 opens the doors, it will be too late to sing "Lazarus".

[mark2]

What are the compartments for Ф15? The pilot from the cockpit will drop them

[Ka-52]

Yeah, they are uryakly. If in a couple of days the same news comes out about us, the reaction will be the opposite.

for every urya-patriot there is at least one whiner-all-propalschik like you. So the average temperature in the hospital is normal

[Alexey from Perm]

it will be possible to declare, if they fail - and if they succeed, it will give a huge advantage over us

[Narak-zempo]

We must respond to this by massive deployment of missiles from special warheads (including air-to-air missiles).

[rocket757]

So many people want their combat units to be protected from attack by various means of countermeasures .... this is normal, but everything has its own price, which increases with the complexity of the means of defense.
Let's see what they do.

[Grazdanin]

What is expensive about these missiles?

[rocket757]

Call a smart rocket a deshovoy, no way. Moreover, it is also a limitation on the shock loading of the aircraft.
In general, in total, not a cheap option ... but from the point of view of preserving the aircraft itself, the option is quite an excuse for itself.
Well I wrote, we need to look at the effectiveness, then it will be possible to evaluate.

[Zeev zeev]

A smart rocket now costs a penny, except for the engine and warhead, all components can be bought even on the civilian market, and for ridiculous money. Including heat sensors, flight control system and steering servos.

[rocket757]

And you try BUY and DO, yes, Schaub it also worked.

[Cyril G ...]

I heard something about a small RVV based on NAR 70 mm (Hydra), to combat small UAVs, missiles and other flying nasty things. Well, it's not Sidewinder to shoot at the price of half a million bucks!

Such RVV should be located in the NAR block. A minimum of 7 pieces there.

[Grazdanin]

Cool. Hydras are being actively modified into guided missiles.

[Cyril G ...]

Here is a completely adequate solution. NAR block on a pylon. There are cheap RVVs. Although I can not help but note the issue of missile defense of the aircraft is extremely difficult, because of the speeds, distances and three-dimensionality. The problem in general is much more difficult than KAZ BTT.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Although I can not help but note the issue of missile defense of the aircraft is extremely difficult, because of the speeds, distances and three-dimensionality.

I agree. A person cannot cope with this already. Full automation. For this, Fki are endowed with very serious computing abilities.

[Ka-52]

For this, Fki are endowed with very serious computing abilities.

in fact, the on-board computer of the aircraft has nothing to do with the firing complex. They have different computing units.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

NAR block on a pylon. There are cheap RVVs.

For explosives and missiles, I doubt that they will be effective, but Against a swarm of UAVs, it is quite a solution. Upgrading hydras into guided missiles is not particularly expensive, you can do dual-use.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

For BB and SAM, I doubt that they will be effective,

Yes, everything is much more complicated here, and I still doubt the solvability of the intercept problem with missiles. The creation of a laser cannon for the destruction of the TGSN RVV MD already seems more real. At least due to the fact that, following the results of military conflicts, the share of RVV SD hitting targets is 2-2.5 times lower than RVV MD. Trite RVV MD is more dangerous.

Quote: Grazdanin

Against a swarm of UAVs is quite a solution.

This is a very good solution in my opinion. We, too, are working on the NAR - so our version of the RVV based on the S-8 or S-13 may appear very soon.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

The creation of a laser cannon for the destruction of the TGSN RVV MD already seems more real.

In the United States, both projects run in parallel with rocket interception and laser incineration. On thedrive, the article came out, much more informative.

[Avior]

Rockets after the start will have to fly in any direction
The task is not for bunks

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Cyril G ...

I heard something about a small RVV based on the NAR 70 mm (Hydra), to combat small UAVs, missiles ...

In the USSR, 57-mm RVV with a photocontrast seeker based on the C-5 were developed!

[3danimal]

The C-5 is too small. (Remember that Soviet microcircuits are the largest microcircuits ) And the warhead is weak.
But for the C-8, C-13 - just right.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: 3danimal

The C-5 is too small. ... And the warhead is weak.

But there are many of them! Whatever it was, but I remember, for some reason, the name C-5!

[3danimal]

These missiles are used for precision destruction of ground targets. In order not to waste Hellfire on a jeep. Maneuverability is not the same (for work with drones), laser guidance.

[Ka-52]

What is expensive about these missiles?

77% is the guidance system, 20% is the engine, 3% is the rest. Therefore, the guidance system a priori cannot be cheap. Well, perhaps in the rosy dreams of American urya patriots.

[Wedmak]

Um ... and how will a mini-missile with a direct hit against an anti-aircraft missile fragmentation warhead help? Something doubts take about: a) guidance b) lethality c) range of destruction.

[NOMADE]

Will knock you off course at the stage of approach outside the zone of destruction of an enemy fragmentation warhead missile. Will trigger its non-contact / contact knock sensor.
In fact, the idea is excellent, only questions of price and the real possibility of implementation in such small dimensions (up to 1 meter in length)

[Grazdanin]

Quote: NOMADE

the possibility of implementation in such a small size

Studies have been carried out, so in theory they can already. The contract for the creation of a prototype, given the composition of the participants, there are already several real options.

[rocket757]

So far, there is NOTHING to discuss, evaluate.
As soon as possible!

[Lopatov]

Quote: Wedmak

Um ... and how will a mini-missile with a direct hit against an anti-aircraft missile fragmentation warhead help? Something doubts take about: a) guidance b) lethality c) range of destruction.

Don't forget, this is the "last frontier".
The main role will be played by group means of REP and "soft-kill" protection

[3danimal]

A direct hit is the most dangerous. The damage is greater, it is mute from any large fragment.

[Livonetc]

Invisibility in reality apparently failed without widespread publicity.
A new concept - by a light order from the Pentagon and other corrupt officials from the military-industrial complex, the fighter turns into a flying hedgehog.

[Avior]

It is not easy to make such a rocket.
In principle, this can happen on other types of aircraft, if it is at all possible, of course, and if they can.
Only the spo must be advanced so that it can be used as a source of target designation.

[Wedmak]

On transporters, bombers, strategists, you can still install this. On fighters, well .... so-so idea.

[Avior]

Now the fighters have a decent payload reserve, and such an anti-missile will not be very heavy
But in general you are right - it begs first of all for bombers
I do not know why they decided to put on fighters

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Avior

why did they decide to install

Fighters operate in the area of ​​air defense and enemy fighters. Bombers start working after gaining air superiority and suppressing air defense.

[Alexey G]

Because the bomber is slow, it will be intercepted by hysterics, and indeed the Americans' main bomber is a fighter. The fighter has a higher speed, they can be used from aircraft carriers. KAZ for aircraft reduces the value of our С350 and С400. Even if one aircraft has 10 such antimissiles, it will be more difficult to shoot it down, and if they provide all their fighters with such air signals and, like tanks, concentrate them on the direction of the main attack, then they will be able to break air defense systems, approaching the strike distance with their missiles air to ground.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Avior

It is not easy to make such a rocket.

Apparently they can already. The money is for a prototype, not for research.

Quote: Avior

In principle, this can also be on other types of aircraft.

Such missiles can be effectively used in combination with slave UAVs. UTAP-22 of unknown modification is being actively tested.

[novel66]

this is very correct! and we will develop micro-missiles to counter these

[Egor53]

For $ 93,4 million in the United States, not that a rocket will not be designed, but even an army toilet lid.

[voyaka uh]

The assignment is a little strange ...
Why to protect a fighter, not a bomber?
The fighter can conduct an anti-missile maneuver.
But the bomber is doomed. And you can attach such missiles to a bomber
a lot - he will not even feel their weight.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: voyaka uh

Why to protect a fighter, not a bomber?

Fighters operate in the area of ​​air defense and enemy fighters. Bombers start working after gaining air superiority and suppressing air defense. Having made for a fighter, you can adapt to bombers and possibly transporters.

Quote: voyaka uh

The fighter can conduct an anti-missile maneuver.

One another does not cancel.

[Zeev zeev]

Because the first strike against air defense will be made by fighters.

[Grazdanin]

Perhaps also because fighters already have all the necessary equipment for searching, identifying and targeting air targets, and bombers need to be modified.

[Avior]

On a fighter it is one way
All-round then no
Bomber Rab is usually good

[tralflot1832]

USAF "kids" stop watching Transformers for the night!

[Zeev zeev]

A very interesting topic. Something like an active protection complex, only for an aircraft. Since it will be much easier to detect an approaching missile (both air-to-air and anti-aircraft missile) due to the greater distances, so the reaction time should not be as short as in the KAZ. True, the range of such an anti-missile should be greater than that of the charge of the same Hetz ha-Dorban (Israeli KAZ with miniature missiles), which is related to the rather large dimensions of the charge.

[Grazdanin]

Yeah, very interesting.

Quote: ZeevZeev

The truth and the range of such an anti-missile should be greater,

2-3 km is more than enough, the same hydras (missiles of similar size) have a range of up to 6-10 km.

[Zeev zeev]

"Hydra" still follows a ballistic trajectory, like any NURS, but here it is necessary to constantly adjust the course and possibly maneuver. But yes, 2-3 km (even one and a half) km for the eyes is enough.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: ZeevZeev

Hydra "still follows a ballistic trajectory, like any NURS, but here it is necessary to constantly adjust the course and possibly maneuver.

Yeah, so I'm talking about 2-3 km.
It is possible to carry the interceptor missiles to the slave UAVs such as UTAP-22 or XQ-58. It will further increase the range of interception of explosives or missiles and further increase the security of the manned aircraft.

[mehan]

The carrier or rocket will highlight the target. SPO, will give an attack vector, some kind of handicap in time. And the distance, all the same, is greater than that of ground artillery. The system drops two or three interceptor missiles, and takes the plane to the PRM. Maybe even on the machine ..... A chance? And the speed has increased greatly.

[Pavel57]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

Vitaly Gusin (Vitaly Gusin)

If not difficult, give the entire list.

[Charik]

And where then to hang for the attack if you hang yourself for defense

[SovAr238A]

There are so many posts in the discussion of military equipment, but I am tormented by the question: "Have you ever read the development of Cuda missiles? After all, information about it, as well as about the program for creating ultra-small self-defense missiles with direct target destruction and without the presence of warheads, has been in common use since 2012 already.
And you are discussing this news regarding "hit-to-kill" and the absence of warheads as a novelty ...
Well, even a little smaller in size.
Because CUDA is considered redundant.

Although for us there is such redundancy in the form of a rocket with a position of 50-80 km and which in the compartment of the F-35 can fit as many as 12 pieces - as if to dream ...
Therefore, all the developments in the SACM program went into the MSDM program, created in 2015.
So that they have 8 ammunition for each aircraft, without reducing the combat load for the main task.

It is a pity that the audience of the military-technical forum is so far from military technology.

[Force]

Finally, the first sensible post on the topic.
It will be interesting to see what Rayton has suggested, even if Lockheed, with all her CUDA developments, flew by.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Vigore

Rayton suggested this, if even Lockheed with all her CUDA developments flew by.

There are too many projects with Lockheed, and in the US they prefer to work with different contractors. There is still a big difference between 178 cm and 100 cm. The meter-long light explosive rocket will be useful to all manned and unmanned aerial vehicles.

[sav]

miniature missiles designed for self-defense against enemy missiles

In response, develop micro-missiles to attack these mini-missiles

[mehan]

And in response - nanodrons. Molecular.

[mehan]

It seems that electronics have stepped over the next frontier of miniaturization ... and performance.
Against the background of reports about .50 guided bullets, somehow it is not surprising

[And Makarov]

If these are budget mini-missiles, then for efficiency they will need to be used in batches.

[Grazdanin]

Drawings from Northrop Grumman's 2017 Aircraft Missile Defense System patent. Looks like X-47B is pictured.

[Pavel57]

Quote: sav

miniature missiles designed for self-defense against enemy missiles

In response, develop micro-missiles to attack these mini-missiles

Anti-missiles were rushing over missiles and anti-missiles. (C).

[Kostadinov]

This weapon devalues ​​long-range missiles and, at the same time, low-availability technology. For the United States, the development of active defense of aircraft is unbeatable.

[Grazdanin]

The concept of commanding combat is changing for them, instead of long-range missile combat, slave and autonomous UAVs. For them, such rockets are what they need.