Military Review

The death of flight MN-17: the tragedy is six years old, and the truth is farther

123

Today marks exactly six years since that terrible day when a catastrophe occurred in the skies over Donbass, which claimed the lives of 298 people, 15 of whom were crew members of the Boeing 777-200ER, which belonged to Malaysia Airlines and flew MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, and the rest are his passengers.


The only thing that with great regret can be stated at the present moment is that, despite the huge resonance around this tragic incident, there are numerous judges, prosecutors, investigators, public and private detectives, as well as self-proclaimed whistleblowers to establish the truth about his perpetrators and reasons. , did not come even a step closer. Moreover, the further, the clearer it becomes: this is unlikely to be expected.

The death of the liner, which initially became, if not an instrument, then the subject of political intrigues of the most disgusting kind, is used to build one of the most horrific slanderous slander against Russia in the whole history her existence. The notorious collective West, which a priori declared our country and the militias of the Donbass republics to be the culprits of what happened, stubbornly ignores both the numerous evidences of the non-involvement of the accused in the actions incriminated to them, and the evidence directly pointing to other suspects.

The reasons and motives that could induce Russia to commit such a horrific act or to participate in it cannot be named within the framework of the most elementary logic and common sense. Nevertheless, even these moments are ignored by the prosecutors, who are in captivity of the “versions” dictated by him, whose main goal is the ultimate demonization of our country in the eyes of the whole world. The freshest proof of this is the lawsuit filed against Russia in the European Court of Human Rights by the Dutch government, stubbornly upholding absolutely groundless accusations, sounding almost from the first minutes after the tragedy.

In accordance with them, the plane was shot down by a Buk air defense missile system, which was part of the 53rd Air Defense Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces. Also, former DPR Defense Minister Igor Girkin (Strelkov), former DPR military intelligence chief Sergei Dubinsky, his deputy Oleg Pulatov and Ukrainian citizen Leonid Kharchenko, who also served in this structure, are named as direct perpetrators of the disaster.

As far as I know, the reason for such drastic actions by the Netherlands, which the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has already called the “next blow to interstate relations”, was very timely “evidence” in the MH-17 case - audio recordings of telephone conversations of certain individuals (supposedly Donbass militias), discussing the "launch of a Russian missile that led to the death of the aircraft", announced by prosecutors from The Hague almost as the "queen of evidence." It should be noted that this record did not arouse the slightest confidence not only among the lawyers of the accused, but also among the experts familiar with it.

According to them, the conversation that supposedly took place on the day the liner died is more like reading a text by actors, and unprofessional, even without really learning the replicas that they put in the script. There are also signs of editing the audio material, which seems to have mercilessly cut and glued, collecting from the disparate "pieces" the text needed by the initiators of this provocation. However, doubtful evidence clearly sewn with white thread turned out to be quite sufficient for the high representative of the European Union for international affairs and security policy Josep Borrell, who made a statement on the anniversary of the death of the flight, in which he demands that Russia unconditionally “admit its guilt” in what happened and “completely contribute to justice efforts. ”

What kind of justice can we talk about in this case, if such accusations are brought forward when even that obviously biased and far from righteous trial, which is now underway in The Hague, is not only not completed, but not even really begun! According to experts, the proceedings in this case may take years, but they are already shouting about the “culprits”. That is why we can say with full confidence: all the participants in this process are concerned not in any way with the search for the truth, but solely with the creation of more and more new reasons for attacks on Russia. Its representatives categorically refuse to include in the investigation team, the evidence provided by the Russian side is not considered or is declared “unreliable”. But any inventions of Ukraine or the United States are immediately accepted with a bang.

Neither futile lawsuits in the ECHR, nor unsubstantiated accusations and far-fetched claims on the part of regular European bureaucrats are, of course, a tragedy for Russia. Bitterness and pain are caused only by the outrageous cynicism with which the tragic death of almost three hundred people from a reason for grief turns into a way to cause as much damage to the reputation of our country as possible.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikipedia / Boeing 777 crash in Donetsk region
123 comments
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 17 July 2020 15: 16 New
    -21
    Author! And who should be blamed if the militia FIRST announced the downing of "another Ukrainian bird", and our TV bravorno announced this on central channels? If then OURS put forward a bunch of versions, I already lost count, although at first I carefully followed these news.
    If the deceased representative at the UN said it would be premature to create an international tribunal? !!!
    Who to blame? !!
    I would have been silent, we sorted it out together, you would look the truth and reveal it, and so it seems that all the parties are hiding the evidence together!
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 17 July 2020 15: 21 New
      -7
      Investigators took information from Russia and said in court quite frankly and directly: after the Russian representatives made a certain number of conflicting statements, they perceive the data from Russia as a disinformation campaign. And you can’t say that they are doing it completely without reason.
      1. iouris
        iouris 18 July 2020 10: 09 New
        +4
        Quote: military_cat
        after the Russian representatives

        "Russian representatives"? What do they have to do with what happened? The stupidity of some officials, who launched into blue-eyed reasoning for the sake of personal PR, is an unpunished act. Some idiocy to even move up the career ladder is even necessary.
        1. military_cat
          military_cat 19 July 2020 08: 51 New
          -3
          Investigators spoke of contradictions not in opinions or interpretations, but specifically in the data.
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 17 July 2020 15: 45 New
      18
      And who should be blamed if the militias were the first to announce the downing of "another Ukrainian bird", and our TV bravely announced this on central channels?

      One is not a dock in your version ... why the Boeing was purposefully sent by Ukrainian dispatchers to the war zone ... according to all the rules of civil air transportation, this could not be done. hi
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 17 July 2020 15: 49 New
        -12
        And what is the discrepancy?
        There were no such versions?
        Or were there no such statements?
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 17 July 2020 16: 17 New
          +5
          And what is the discrepancy?
          There were no such versions?
          Or were there no such statements?

          And which militias said smile ?
          Something Vasya something there blurted out foolishly something and you believed ...
          and TV suffered this nonsense without any evidence.
          If I start to make such statements now, you will believe me without evidence. smile hi
          Let's rely all the same on factual material and common sense.
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 17 July 2020 16: 46 New
            -9
            Not Vasya, and if I'm not mistaken, Girkin ... Well, you do not provide the actual material.
            In addition to, there was a statement by the UK. Or are there Vasi too?
            Or a loud MO statement with a photo of an attack aircraft? Also "Vasya"?
            1. Russian jacket
              Russian jacket 17 July 2020 17: 25 New
              15
              Vasya or not Vasya, I don’t know. Our of course broke a lot of firewood with their inconsistent statements. But ... I only know that when TU 154 was shot down by Ukrainian missiles in 2001, the United States gave accurate data on the rocket launch site received from the satellite. And here the pictures are secret, and a muddy story about the number of the rocket, published by the same investigators. And a little trick in a few years, saying that there are probably no specifics. And constant calls to take the blame on Russia. There would be reinforced concrete evidence, our country would have been smeared for a long time. On this occasion, I can recall how the financial departments of Germany, France, the United States were looking for Putin's capital in offshore. His capital was not found, but dug up on his leaders. And it began ... In the Western press, as if by a wave of a wand, publications appeared that it was legal, such as Rafik is innocent. Google this story, it will be informative. Just not for Russian resources.

              PS The explosion over Lockerbie was investigated for 3 years. We examined everything that could be. Gathered evidence. And here, with "irrefutable" data, a sluggish consequence has been already 6 years. And constant calls to repent. Something does not grow together a stone flower.
              1. military_cat
                military_cat 17 July 2020 17: 39 New
                -7
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                I only know that when TU 154 was shot down by Ukrainian missiles in 2001, the United States gave accurate data on the rocket launch site received from the satellite. And then the pictures are secret

                In 2001, the United States did not declassify the pictures. And when Iran shot down a passenger airliner, the pictures were not declassified either. In both cases, they announced according to their data what was shot down and where. Well, so they announced it about MH17. In the MH17 case, the USA did nothing that would be different from their usual behavior in such situations.
              2. Octopus
                Octopus 17 July 2020 17: 58 New
                -3
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                I only know that when TU 154 was shot down in 2001 by Ukrainian missiles

                Yes?

                How do you know that? By the way, which country in those exercises was responsible for clearing the sky from civilian sides?
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                There would be reinforced concrete evidence, our country would have been smeared for a long time.

                What for? Who would smear it? What would I get from this?
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                financial departments of Germany, France, the United States were looking for Putin's capital in offshore

                Seriously? I don’t remember something.
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                here, with "irrefutable" data, a sluggish consequence is already 6 years old

                You are right, the Ukrainians and the Dutch came out quite melancholy. On the other hand, after Lockerbie, the sixes got to their asses only 11 years later, and to Amanita’s ass even after 11. But they got to his ass in the literal sense.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Octopus
        Octopus 17 July 2020 17: 51 New
        -5
        Quote: The same Lech
        Ukrainian dispatchers to the war zone

        The question of how the Boeing even got to Donbass has already been considered by the court. Everything is within the norm, during the CTO, the sky at high echelons as a rule does not close.
        1. Region68
          Region68 17 July 2020 19: 31 New
          +3
          By the way, Russia closed its sky just before it seems up to 15 thousand meters
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Octopus
            Octopus 18 July 2020 06: 42 New
            -3
            Quote: Region68
            By the way, Russia closed its sky just before it seems up to 15 thousand meters

            Seriously? That is, this Boeing would have flown to the border, and there it would have been turned back, so what?
            1. Region68
              Region68 18 July 2020 12: 25 New
              -1
              Google .. I don't remember the details
            2. Region68
              Region68 18 July 2020 12: 27 New
              0
              https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2017/07/17/724024-forbes-17-iyulya
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 18 July 2020 13: 05 New
                -2
                What a cute text.
                In this regard, Forbes asked the Federal Air Transport Agency and Oleg Storchevoy, deputy department head, why Russia imposed a flight restriction in the area of ​​responsibility of the Rostov Zonal Center on the night of July 17. The publication is also interested in why “the height of these restrictions is beyond the limit for all existing types of civil aircraft and practically corresponds to the height that can be fired by the Buk anti-aircraft missile systems? Another question of the Federal Air Transport Agency: why the dispatchers of the Rostov Center, who received on July 16, 2014 the document NOTAM UUUUV6158 / 14 on limiting flights to an altitude of 16 m, continued to serve “the border airspace as if nothing had happened, as if there were no restrictions at all?»


                So who was flying civilian planes through the war zone, you say?
                1. Region68
                  Region68 18 July 2020 18: 56 New
                  0
                  I'm not saying anything .. It's just a fact that the Russian Federation was concerned about closing the airspace on the eve .. Why is it
      3. Snarkxnumx
        Snarkxnumx 17 July 2020 21: 36 New
        +1
        Apparently this is an SBU operation. There was a drain of information on the sides. And this time they leaked that military board. They even brought to Buk.
    3. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 17 July 2020 16: 11 New
      +3
      There, 2 litak for a day Bandera shot down nothing special in this was not.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 17 July 2020 16: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: Incvizitor
        There, 2 litak for a day Bandera shot down nothing special in this was not.

        yes yes yes
        When "banged", I did not attach any special significance to this no , you think, the next "ace ukrolyuftvaffe" failed ...

        I learned the details a little later, in the evening, from a neighbor ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Incvizitor
            Incvizitor 17 July 2020 22: 01 New
            +4
            Thank God that your fascist litaks almost nullified.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Squelcher
                Squelcher 17 July 2020 22: 28 New
                +4
                God is with him, not ukrobes.
              2. Incvizitor
                Incvizitor 17 July 2020 22: 31 New
                0
                404 died and Bandera with her, as for me it's time laughing
                1. The comment was deleted.
    4. maksbazhin
      maksbazhin 18 July 2020 08: 15 New
      +2
      There is a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. The fact that the plane crashed was seen by people, LDNR didn’t have any planes, so they concluded that they again shot down the Ukrainian one and put it on the news, and then Oops ...
    5. krops777
      krops777 18 July 2020 08: 29 New
      +1
      And who should be blamed if the militias were the first to announce the downing of "another Ukrainian bird", and our TV bravely announced this on central channels?


      Well, they shot down the SU-25 from MANPADS that day, it was not realistic to get the Boeing at the altitude at which it flew, even after the Ukrainian dispatchers forced to change the echelon and change the course would still not get it, but under the Ukrainian BUK it is quite possible and everything was done for this.
    6. Shuttle
      Shuttle 18 July 2020 11: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Author! And who should be blamed if the militia FIRST announced the downing of "another Ukrainian bird", and our TV bravorno announced this on central channels? If then OURS put forward a bunch of versions, I already lost count, although at first I carefully followed these news.
      If the deceased representative at the UN said it would be premature to create an international tribunal? !!!
      Who to blame? !!
      I would have been silent, we sorted it out together, you would look the truth and reveal it, and so it seems that all the parties are hiding the evidence together!

      Let's take your tz. that the first to blame the militias. Well, they accepted it. What's next? Is there any credible evidence that they somehow miraculously flooded the liner at almost 10 km altitude? How, how, where? Even if we wanted to, if we tried our best. How did they bring it down? Photos satellite hde? Dispatcher hde? Reports from the Ukrainian Bucks where? Raider pilot, hde?
    7. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 18 July 2020 16: 22 New
      +1
      well tell me what there is
    8. Vladimir Romanov_2
      Vladimir Romanov_2 20 July 2020 14: 46 New
      +1
      There is a basic principle of law: "Seek who is FAVORABLE." Is there at least one REASONABLE confirmation that it was "profitable" for the Russian Federation? NOT! Give at least one logical reason!
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 20 July 2020 15: 38 New
        -2
        And who would benefit from shooting down a UIA passenger liner in Iran?
        It seems that there is no one. Human factor.
        But in the Donbass, military planes and helicopters were shot down.
        If you follow the logic of the Netherlands, then you can build a chain.
        If we assume that they have filled up the dill, then it does not agree slightly - the gallant warriors should have been the first to shout stop the thief, so that the whole world would take up arms against the Russian Federation, but ... They were silent!
        But the militias started shouting.
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 17 July 2020 15: 17 New
    +8
    Only the transcendent cynicism with which the tragic death of nearly three hundred people from an occasion for grief turns into a way to inflict as much damage on the reputation of our country as causes bitterness and pain.

    What is needed here is not bitterness and pain ... but a cold head to fight against the daily slander of Western jurisprudence ... after all, they expect Russia to begin to make excuses ... and here it is not necessary to justify but to retaliate to hold slanderers against Russia accountable .. .introduce sanctions and open criminal proceedings against persons who rampantly slander our country.
  3. Strashila
    Strashila 17 July 2020 15: 17 New
    +9
    "claims to the ECHR", this is the main confirmation that the "tribunal" does not have any data on Russia's fault.
    For the past six years, the investigation has done everything to destroy the evidence of guilt of the Western special services in this tragedy.
  4. Terenin
    Terenin 17 July 2020 15: 17 New
    10
    A brief and meaningful answer is set forth in this part of the article.
    The death of the liner, which initially became, if not an instrument, then the subject of political intrigues of the most heinous attack, is used to erect one of the most terrifying slander to Russia in the entire history of its existence. The notorious collective West, which a priori declared our country and the militiamen of the republics of Donbass to be the culprits of the incident, stubbornly ignores both the numerous evidence that the accused were not involved in the actions he was charged with and the evidence directly pointing to other suspects.
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 17 July 2020 15: 34 New
    +6
    And why not Russia, file a counterclaim against the Netherlands, to protect honor and dignity?
    1. Red Dragon
      Red Dragon 17 July 2020 20: 32 New
      -12
      And how can you file a counterclaim if you know that you shot down 300 corpses, including 80 children on your conscience? There remains one behavior of Russia: it is dumb, but prove it. Funny wink
      1. Vladimir Romanov_2
        Vladimir Romanov_2 20 July 2020 14: 51 New
        +1
        And who is to blame for your unbridled semantic and verbal diarrhea?
    2. Red Dragon
      Red Dragon 17 July 2020 21: 00 New
      -10
      Russia's only chance to talk about this crime. It will be hard to answer for lies.
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 17 July 2020 22: 31 New
        +3
        Ukroreihu chapitoshny, with air conditioning, better to know.
        1. Red Dragon
          Red Dragon 17 July 2020 23: 05 New
          -7
          Putin's Reich is certainly better. We repeat: these are the dumb, Bandera, the Americans and and. D. We are good wink
          1. Squelcher
            Squelcher 17 July 2020 23: 26 New
            +4
            What will you do poorly if Putin does not? How will you justify your stupidity of greed and idiotic idiocy?
            1. Red Dragon
              Red Dragon 17 July 2020 23: 34 New
              -9
              I hope the creatures who shot down MH17 die in torment. But Putin, and his codla, which covers the killers, will die a little later.
              1. Squelcher
                Squelcher 17 July 2020 23: 38 New
                +4
                How is Voloshin’s litak? I hope the nits that burned people alive, and the punishers pounding from art for residents and children of Donbas, too, here I am absolutely in solidarity with you.
                1. Red Dragon
                  Red Dragon 17 July 2020 23: 46 New
                  -8
                  Russian radar data said Voloshin had nothing to do with it. Contact dispatcher Carlos. He really stole 50 thousand euros. But he is honest for Russia. Bandera accuses smart girl wink
                  1. Squelcher
                    Squelcher 18 July 2020 01: 04 New
                    +5
                    The most important thing is that the nits that shot down this plane die together with the nits, burning people alive, and punishers pounding from the art of the inhabitants and children of Donbas, as well as ki happily hooting and helping punishers.
              2. Whiteidol
                Whiteidol 18 July 2020 18: 21 New
                0
                The main thing is that you live forever.
  6. Ros 56
    Ros 56 17 July 2020 16: 08 New
    +6
    Who else would be, I would seek this truth. If Russia began to blame even before the plane crashed to the ground. fellow sad
    1. Red Dragon
      Red Dragon 17 July 2020 21: 32 New
      -10
      80 children's corpses. Heavy
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 17 July 2020 22: 33 New
        +6
        As Potroshenko said there, they will sit under shelling about the children of Donbas in the cellars, and the children of the killers will go to school?
        1. Red Dragon
          Red Dragon 17 July 2020 23: 08 New
          -7
          The killers slept. Beasts began to yell early, about the downing of Ukrainian planes. They tried to translate the arrows, funny. wink
          1. Squelcher
            Squelcher 17 July 2020 23: 13 New
            +4
            And what do ukroreihu burn openly alive, burn, then make fun of wounded and deified, lay out the video? How is it that the experts on optical illusions of the Krymsky Bridge live comfortably, what else is interesting to say about hedgehogs and coupons on the Internet?
            1. Red Dragon
              Red Dragon 17 July 2020 23: 53 New
              -8
              What are online coupons? What nonsense are you talking about? What are you talking about? belay
              1. Squelcher
                Squelcher 18 July 2020 01: 07 New
                +2
                Merged, - man noodles, by the way, red dragon fast food chain make pretty good noodles, you are most likely an exception.
        2. Vladimir Romanov_2
          Vladimir Romanov_2 20 July 2020 14: 56 New
          0
          No, this one said the following: “Our clean and well-fed children will sit in bright, warm classrooms, and their children, dirty and hungry, will sit in dirty, moist cellars!” It's somehow so simple and frank!
  7. Maks1995
    Maks1995 17 July 2020 16: 09 New
    +1
    Everyone understands everything perfectly, but out loud they write what is needed .....
  8. Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 17 July 2020 16: 14 New
    -5
    The author of the article, Alexander, contradicts himself: in one place he says that "... they haven’t come a step closer," "... this is hardly expected," in another - "... the collective West ... stubbornly ignores ... numerous evidence. " And the second is absolutely true! As for the first, then every ATTENTIVE and THINKING person has long known who and how destroyed the Malaysian Boeing over the Donbass. Only the VO reactions do not need this. Why, if you can keep hype on this topic for a long time?
    1. Mooh
      Mooh 18 July 2020 00: 08 New
      -1
      I would not say. So much turbidity has been divorced on this topic that it is almost impossible to filter it out and make unambiguous conclusions. I am interested in the topic from the very beginning and am still not ready to say that I am 100% sure who and how did it.
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 18 July 2020 01: 31 New
        +1
        from the very beginning and still not ready to say that I am 100% sure who and how did it.

        For this, 10 contradictory and absurd versions are needed.

        Everything from the Moscow Region voiced by the central channels - pilot Voloshin, dispatcher Carlos, Su-25, picture with 800 meter
        Boeing and Su-27, stale corpses from the missing Boeing, the CIA, UFO and finally Buk, but this is inaccurate
        1. Grim Reaper
          Grim Reaper 18 July 2020 02: 37 New
          0
          Quote: Santa Fe
          from the very beginning and still not ready to say that I am 100% sure who and how did it.

          For this, 10 contradictory and absurd versions are needed.

          Everything from the Moscow Region voiced by the central channels - pilot Voloshin, dispatcher Carlos, Su-25, picture with 800 meter
          Boeing and Su-27, stale corpses from the missing Boeing, the CIA, UFO and finally Buk, but this is inaccurate

          nonetheless .... Were the Americans on the moon ..... ?????
        2. ver_
          ver_ 20 July 2020 12: 22 New
          0
          ... why were the corpses stale and there was no blood in them? ... They didn’t drop them on top for an hour .. At military exercises, BMPs with a landing * are thrown * .., and the wreckage of the aircraft does not weigh so much ..
    2. Russian jacket
      Russian jacket 18 July 2020 03: 28 New
      +2
      The attentive reader knows who shot down TU 154 in 2001. But in Ukraine, having paid compensation to the killed Israelis, it still does not admit its guilt. And then I was especially touched by the passage of a handful "like it happens, we are not the first, it happens"
  9. Alien From
    Alien From 17 July 2020 16: 47 New
    +3
    This Boeing will complement the piggy bank of unsolved stories ..... unless the mattresses want to merge the non-brothers ....!
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 17 July 2020 17: 12 New
      +2
      I wrote long ago that in such cases, Russia should file a counterclaim with international authorities to protect its honor and dignity, but this is not done, from the word "in general". The question is “why !? And the answer is simple, there is no one. The Kremlin is busy pushing the so-called“ earned ”by all sorts of foreign pills and funds, what kind of court can there be any discussion, if they can always take gills for and without reason, well and the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, with cocaine suitcases and cellos, only with the help of Zakharova on Twitter, writes endless “tough statements” in Russian for the Russian-speaking audience ...
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 17 July 2020 17: 52 New
        +1
        You know, and there’s nothing to add here .... (
  10. certero
    certero 17 July 2020 17: 24 New
    +4
    The only way to protect is to find the perpetrators. If not a militia, then Ukraine.
  11. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 17 July 2020 18: 53 New
    -1
    I wonder what other evidence is missing for the Dutch?
    1. Testimony of the manager Carlos, who observed the attack of a pair of Ukrainian fighters on the Boeing
    2. Testimonies of local residents, in particular, Valentina’s teacher, who heard the sound of the Su-25 and after that observed an explosion in the sky
    3. Testimony of a witness who observed directly on the day of the disaster the launch of the Su-25 with the suspended R-60 and its return without missiles
    4. Archival data indicating that the 9M38M missile of the Buk complex, which shot down the Boeing, was sent back in 1986 to the military. 20/152 in the Ternopol region
    5. Satellite images depicting the moment of the attack of the Ukrainian fighter
    https://lenta.ru/news/2014/11/14/boeing/
    6. Reconstruction of the Su-25 attack carried out by the Russian Union of Engineers
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201408251120-25nx.htm
    7. Simulation of the defeat of a Boeing missile 9M38M missile complex Buk, performed by specialists of the concern Almaz-Antey, which proves that the launch was carried out from Ukrainian territory
    https://rg.ru/2015/10/13/boing-site.html

    In general, one should adhere to the version that the Ukrainians shot down, and if not, it does not matter who shot down, this is, first of all, a tragedy, and the war unleashed by the junta became its cause.
    1. ved_med12
      ved_med12 17 July 2020 19: 01 New
      +3
      you need to add photos from the Internet ... and the negotiations are "glued together", don’t understand who, it’s not clear with whom and it’s not clear when ... then everything will be in a bunch!
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 17 July 2020 19: 21 New
        +1
        Everything is clear with this character.
        In general, one should adhere to the version that the Ukrainians shot down, and if not, it does not matter who shot down, this is, first of all, a tragedy, and the war unleashed by the junta became its cause.

        Even a non-commissioned officer widow could not have carved herself better.
        1. Liam
          Liam 17 July 2020 19: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: Engineer
          Everything is clear with this character.

          In my humble opinion, the character trolls quite subtly
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 17 July 2020 20: 00 New
            +5
            If so then the heat. Octopus is resting)
            1. Red Dragon
              Red Dragon 17 July 2020 20: 23 New
              -2
              Cool trollite. I agree.
            2. Liam
              Liam 17 July 2020 21: 03 New
              +1
              Octopus elite colleague. Especially when in shape)
          2. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 17 July 2020 20: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Liam
            Quote: Engineer
            Everything is clear with this character.

            In my humble opinion, the character trolls quite subtly

            It was always fat laughing
            1. Liam
              Liam 17 July 2020 20: 58 New
              0
              Therefore, I wrote thin enough)
    2. Engineer
      Engineer 17 July 2020 19: 04 New
      0
      https://www.rbc.ru/politics/11/12/2019/5df085629a79479b63065ed6
      Channel One made a mistake in preparing the story, which said that a Malaysian Boeing 777 in 2014 over the Donbass could be shot down by a Ukrainian fighter. This was stated in an interview with The New Yorker by Channel One CEO Konstantin Ernst.

      “When I asked Ernst why his channel showed something so easily refutable, he replied that it was a simple mistake:“ Yes, we are people, we made a mistake, but not on purpose, ”the article says.

      “In order to fake this, it requires even higher professionalism than access to such information. Gentlemen, you have these pictures! Or others! Present them at last! Hands on the table! ” - said Leontyev.


      The author of the letter, George Bilt, was soon spotted by the Buzzfeed edition. He said that he found this photo on one of the forums on the Internet and honestly warned Russian journalists about it.

      On November 19, 2014, Channel One admitted in a new story that the photo was fake, but the host of the program, Mikhail Leontyev, stated that the photo “was not given out for any evidence”, the original source of the photo was thrown by a liberal blogger, and says about the guilt of the Ukrainian side “ official Washington's deathly silence ”in response to the scandal with the snapshot.

      PA In general, the situation is piquant. You already decide a couple of fighters, Su-25 or Buk from the Ukrainian side
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 17 July 2020 20: 21 New
        -2
        Quote: Engineer
        In general, the situation is piquant. You already decide a couple of fighters, Su-25 or Buk from the Ukrainian side

        As though the investigation provided three options from which you can choose the most suitable.
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 17 July 2020 19: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      2. Testimonies of local residents, in particular, Valentina’s teacher, who heard the sound of the Su-25 and after that observed an explosion in the sky

      This is doubtful. The Su-25 has a small ceiling, and indeed it is not designed for these purposes. It is necessary to reach the visual range, and the P-60 is too small for such a fool. You can, of course, bring down if you're lucky. But this, I repeat, is unlikely. It’s not clear how she distinguished the sound of the Su-25 from the rest. Cool teacher)
      1. maksbazhin
        maksbazhin 18 July 2020 09: 20 New
        0
        In a single Beech, especially brought from Russia, even less is believed. The same must be brought in, prepared, gasped on an airplane, which should not be there and topple, despite the fact that the front at that time was unstable, the situation was constantly changing. Yes, and there was no need for a downed plane for Russia, if we had brought in troops immediately after that to restore order, then yes, but I'm sorry I DO NOT BELIEVE.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 18 July 2020 11: 10 New
          -3
          Quote: maksbazhin
          In a single Beech, especially brought from Russia, even less is believed. The same must be brought in, prepared, gasped on an airplane, which should not be there and topple, despite the fact that the front at that time was unstable, the situation was constantly changing. Yes, and there was no need for a downed plane for Russia, if we had brought in troops immediately after that to restore order, then yes, but I'm sorry I DO NOT BELIEVE.

          Well, there is an option that the Buk was brought to the militia from the Voentorg to strengthen the air defense, and they really wanted to hit on the Ukrainian transport, and when they realized that there was a mistake, then they were urgently taken back.
          1. maksbazhin
            maksbazhin 18 July 2020 11: 25 New
            0
            Beech for a transporter is too much, there would be enough OSA air defense missile systems, especially since the militia claimed that they are. (the only thing I don't remember was it before or after Boeing)
            1. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 18 July 2020 11: 46 New
              -1
              Quote: maksbazhin
              Beech for the transporter - too much

              Well, there is an option that I really wanted to zhahnut for something. Or in order to train the future calculation of the militia. Or in order to intimidate the Ukrainian command and force it to completely abandon flights.
    4. Snarkxnumx
      Snarkxnumx 17 July 2020 21: 50 New
      -2
      And the conclusion of the Diamond-Antei false in your opinion? Moreover, these versions are Russian. They contradict each other. And there were no other sides there. This is our tracking services confirmed.
  12. Odysseus
    Odysseus 17 July 2020 19: 04 New
    0
    There may be 4 versions
    1) Militias shot down
    2) Maidan Ukraine shot down with the knowledge of the leadership
    3) Shot down the Russian Federation with the knowledge of the leadership
    4) A joint operation (provocation) of a part of the establishment of the Russian Federation and Ukraine not interested in joining the Donbass to the Russian Federation and not at all interested in the active intervention of the Russian Federation.
    I also heard about the fifth version — no one knocked him down, but the wreckage of another plane was thrown, but this is in my opinion not logical. Next, you need to find out the presence of motive and opportunity and compliance with the facts.
    But the fact is that no one will do this, the process in the Netherlands is strictly political, its purpose is to blame the Russian Federation and hang this accusation as a sword of Damocles as a long-running threat. The fact is also that the Russian authorities themselves are to blame for this, because the wreckage was on the territory of the DPR.
    Regardless of who shot down the plane, why did you have to give them away? We would conduct an investigation ourselves, on the territory of the DPR. The West, of course, would not recognize-well, anyway. In the hope of what they gave up the debris and allowed the Westerners to the place of the fall? For an honest investigation?
    Well, now you get - an "honest investigation."
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 17 July 2020 19: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Odyssey
      1) Militias shot down

      The version disappears because there was nothing to bring down. Not the Wasp.
      Quote: Odyssey
      3) Shot down the Russian Federation with the knowledge of the leadership

      This is generally nonsense. There is no answer to the main question - why?
      Total remains the 2nd and 4th. Well, the 5th I would add that the "Euro-American partners" were shot down as a provocation in order to push through the supply of weapons to the junta.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 17 July 2020 20: 03 New
        +2
        Quote: Narak-zempo

        The version disappears because there was nothing to bring down. Not the Wasp.

        Well, the main thing is there is no motive. So if shot down, then only by accident. Yes, the Wasp does not reach the ceiling.
        They say about the incomplete Buk, which was transmitted from Russia. But this is a strange version. Why then they transmitted one Buk, and even incomplete, why it was illuminated. It turns out they gave one incomplete Buk, they lit it up, they were able to bring down the Boeing with the first rocket and took it away. Some kind of nonsense.
        Anything, of course, happens in life, but there are many inconsistencies. Plus another question with the crew. Who, in fact, controlled it.
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        This is generally nonsense. There is no answer to the main question - why?

        Yes, there is an opportunity, but there is no motive from the word at all. They could have shot down by chance during the deployment of troops, but there is supposedly one Buk.
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        Well, the 5th I would add that the "Euro-American partners" were shot down as a provocation in order to push through the supply of weapons to the junta.

        Well, it’s the same thing that Ukraine brought down, it’s not a subject of politics, but an object. The West didn’t shoot down directly with its planes and air defense systems.
        1. Red Dragon
          Red Dragon 17 July 2020 20: 25 New
          -14
          So by accident. In January, Iran accidentally shot down a Boeing. But at first he did not admit. And Russia is recognized. Later wink
          1. Red Dragon
            Red Dragon 17 July 2020 21: 27 New
            -11
            10 million wink Per person. Well, they’ll pay 3 billion. It's about nothing, for Russia, rising from its knees
            1. Cossack 471
              Cossack 471 17 July 2020 22: 19 New
              +7
              Ukraine still has not paid with people for the downed TU-154. pretending to be boots
              And Ku then "repented" - "We are not Persians. We will not stay who shot down passenger litak"
              1. Cristall
                Cristall 22 July 2020 23: 40 New
                -2
                Quote: Cossack 471
                Ukraine still has not paid with people for the downed TU-154. pretending to be boots

                In accordance with the Claims Settlement Agreement signed by Russia and Ukraine on December 26, 2003, the Ukrainian government transferred $ 7 to pay relatives of the deceased Russian passengers. Compensation was paid ex gratia, that is, without recognition of legal liability. Relatives of Israeli passengers were paid $ 809 million
            2. Whiteidol
              Whiteidol 18 July 2020 18: 27 New
              0
              Will not be paid. All the GRU money was gone. It pays 100.000. bucks for one killed amerskoy soldier ...
    2. Avior
      Avior 17 July 2020 19: 55 New
      -1
      All versions except the first suggest that it was the Boeing that was intentionally shot down.
      The Dutch have the sixth version in court
      1. ender
        ender 17 July 2020 20: 39 New
        +2
        forgot the brilliant version that Ukraine tried to bring down Putin’s plane ..
    3. Kostya Lavinyukov
      Kostya Lavinyukov 17 July 2020 20: 14 New
      0
      In your understanding of option number one, the plane was shot down accidentally or intentionally?
    4. mole
      mole 17 July 2020 21: 11 New
      0
      There is a sixth: the "ram" made the decision to bring down. So the error came out.
  13. ANB
    ANB 17 July 2020 20: 19 New
    +1
    This is not a court, but a clowning.
    1. The identities of the accused have not been established. Sorry, but the surname and name do not indicate specific individuals. Yes, and the name of one is written all the time in different ways.
    2. Accused of incomprehensible what. Type in a certain involvement. What is involved is not indicated.
    1. ANB
      ANB 17 July 2020 20: 23 New
      +2
      3. The history of the crime has not been investigated.
      4. There is no material evidence. Instead, screenshots of posts on the Internet, unknown to anyone made.
      5. Motives are not clarified.
      1. ANB
        ANB 17 July 2020 20: 23 New
        0
        Any normal the court would have returned the case for further investigation.
        1. ANB
          ANB 17 July 2020 20: 27 New
          +3
          The accusations against Russia in the ECHR are generally not clear on what basis. Is it even somehow, even fake, proved that the Boeing was shot down by official representatives of the Russian Federation?
          Or do we have a manufacturer of air defense systems responsible for any downing of any aircraft?
  14. ANB
    ANB 17 July 2020 20: 32 New
    +3
    By the way, Ukraine just had a motive.
    1. Red Dragon
      Red Dragon 17 July 2020 21: 11 New
      -8
      And what a motive! Can I tell you?
      1. Cossack 471
        Cossack 471 17 July 2020 22: 25 New
        +5
        Easy. After a couple of days, the EU had to decide. to impose sanctions against Russia for the Crimea or not, and Boeing turned up very opportunely
        And another time, Poroshenko was getting ready for a meeting at the UN and the bus turned up very opportunely. blown up on a mine. well, just a day before the meeting
        And there are quite a few such "coincidences"
        1. Avior
          Avior 17 July 2020 22: 56 New
          -4
          After a couple of days, the EU had to decide. to impose sanctions against Russia for the Crimea or not, and Boeing turned up very opportunely

          and before that were going to not enter?
          1. Mooh
            Mooh 18 July 2020 00: 15 New
            +1
            Hesitated. But in the end, they introduced the toughest of the options considered.
            1. Avior
              Avior 18 July 2020 00: 45 New
              -4
              Can you give a link?
              Decisions on EU sanctions were made in the evening on the eve of how the Boeing fell, that is, before the fall.
              https://www.interfax.ru/world/386209
  15. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 17 July 2020 21: 12 New
    -5
    Yeah, "the truth is farther and farther" and the news portals still contain news of the downing of Ana by the militia.
    How many are there all down? 15 pieces different?

    Everyone understands everything, but we must work out the salary ....
  16. Private SA
    Private SA 17 July 2020 23: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: military_cat
    And when Iran shot down a passenger airliner, the pictures were also not declassified.

    And when the American cruiser Vincennes shot down the Iranian A-300 in 1988, did they show satellite images to everyone?
    But since missile launch does not show from territories controlled by the DPR and LPR -
    it means nothing to show ...
  17. Russian jacket
    Russian jacket 18 July 2020 03: 23 New
    0
    [quote = Octopus] [quote = Russian quilted jacket] I only know that when TU 154 was shot down in 2001 by Ukrainian missiles [/ quote]
    Yes?

    How do you know that? By the way, which country in those exercises was responsible for clearing the sky from civilian sides?

    Do not pull the owl onto the globe. Whose Crimea was it then? The plane flew in a zone that was not designated as a training zone. About who shot down. Ask the Israelis to whom Ukraine has paid compensation. In the misfortune of the Ukrainians, there were passengers of the promised land. At the same time, look for the statements of Kuchma that he said that it’s okay to happen ... I hope you find it.
    PS Do google about the offshore investigation. Especially Germanic. If you don't remember, this does not mean that it was not.
  18. iouris
    iouris 18 July 2020 10: 04 New
    0
    Six years there is no result - don't wait, you won't. The "investigation" had to be forgotten in two months.
  19. Valery Vinokurov
    Valery Vinokurov 18 July 2020 11: 35 New
    +1
    Dap again letters from all Ukrainians and our Bandera hangers-on
    Now I’ll ask the simplest question and again I won’t get an answer, except perhaps except for absolutely moronic statements:
    WHY RUSSIA OR THERE WAS THE RELIEFS TO KILL THIS BOEING
    WHAT THEY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WITH THIS, WHAT WAS THIS MEANING FOR THEM ???
    Judas, stop pouring empty I get on with Russia, and let's start with the AZOV of any investigation
  20. Alsur
    Alsur 18 July 2020 14: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Author! And who should be blamed if the militia FIRST announced the downing of "another Ukrainian bird", and our TV bravorno announced this on central channels? If then OURS put forward a bunch of versions, I already lost count, although at first I carefully followed these news.
    If the deceased representative at the UN said it would be premature to create an international tribunal? !!!
    Who to blame? !!
    I would have been silent, we sorted it out together, you would look the truth and reveal it, and so it seems that all the parties are hiding the evidence together!

    You have forgotten the situation in '14, let me remind you. All of Russia was rooting for Donbass, any message that the militias were fighting and not broken received a huge response. It is no wonder that reports of the shooting down of Ukrainian military aircraft that attacked the militias or delivered military supplies and soldiers to the front line, and especially after the airstrike on the building of the Luhansk regional administration, were perceived as joyful, the militias were not broken, they were fighting with superior forces.
    By the mood, you feel that you are from Ukraine and you see what you want in this situation, you do not notice the other factors. The airstrike on the building of the Lugansk Regional Administration in Ukraine is forgotten and remembered only if it is necessary to blame the militias, such as the conditioners explode.
    If in Ukraine the new government did not start an armed struggle against the Donbass, the attitude towards Ukraine would remain as before among Russians as it was before the age of 14, Ukraine until the age of 14 would remain a fraternal country, the same as Belarus. But after 14 years, the attitude of Russians became more critical of the brothers.
    1. Konstantin Cherepanov
      Konstantin Cherepanov 19 July 2020 05: 10 New
      0
      You are not explaining anything here. With my own ears and eyes, I heard and saw evidence of the downed Ukrainian plane on ORT. And about "birds, etc. Everything was there. Why did my Aeroflot plane fly the same route a week before the downed Boeing? Ukraine is also to blame? After all, the" militias "" did not have any missile systems. " could civilian liners be exposed to danger in the sky of Ukraine?
    2. Cristall
      Cristall 22 July 2020 23: 52 New
      -3
      Quote: ALSur
      If in Ukraine the new government did not start an armed struggle against the Donbass, the attitude towards Ukraine would remain as before among Russians as it was before the age of 14, Ukraine until the age of 14 would remain a fraternal country, the same as Belarus. But after 14 years, the attitude of Russians became more critical of the brothers.

      That is, to welcome separatism, not to pay attention to the Crimea and the seizure of everything there, the murder of Ukrainian servicemen and the seizure of property, and let other regions rock in order to destroy the country. At the same time, were the Russians loyal?
      I remember very well the 2014 comments from Crimea. All that are for us - Ukrainians / Russians, against us - all Bandera. Ukrainians for Ukraine do not come to mind of the average Russian at all. As if they do not exist and should not use arms to crush the disintegration of their country and the annexation of its territories during a period of inadequacy of the center.
      In the name of brotherhood, loyalty, friendship and great love for the Russians, we did not shoot when the Russians began to seize Crimea. Now they accuse us of cowardice. Our victims are silent and spread fakes about the bloodlessness of the capture, and everyone for Ukraine was ranked among the Bandera ...
      I have a counter question - in a similar situation with your country, would you remain a loyal fraternal country? By the way, the behavior of Ukrainians is still tolerant ... Still, not entirely southern countries. Arabs have emotions over the edge there ...
      and then 13.22% of the territory ... while we are to blame for the loss of loyalty of Russians to Ukrainians ...
      I know that many preferred the country to disintegrate, be destroyed, but the Russians remained loyal to us (but only to those who are not "Bandera")
  21. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 18 July 2020 20: 19 New
    +1
    Obvious fact
    1) over the past six years, no Boeing disaster investigation has been conducted.
    Additionally
    2) everything was done to solve the crime was impossible.
    Output.
    3) Boeing passengers became victims of a monstrous provocation.
    Unconditional fault of Ukraine, which was obliged to close the sky over the conflict zone for flights.
    The truth is, "If there are no planes in the sky, then a crash cannot happen."
  22. Al Asad
    Al Asad 18 July 2020 21: 11 New
    +1
    Of course, you can’t imagine a worse situation with a catastrophe.
    It is not enough that the tragedy of ordinary people (air passengers) and their relatives and friends. And all this dirt is taking place against the backdrop of the ongoing bloody conflict in the Donbass.
    We are unlikely to really know the truth. In the midst of that avalanche of lies and dirt that pours towards Russia, the truth really interests no one anywhere and no one else.
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 18 July 2020 22: 50 New
      -1
      Quote: Al Asad
      It is not enough that the tragedy of ordinary people (air passengers) and their relatives and friends.

      Well, if you think from the point of view of eternal life, then this is not a tragedy, but on the contrary.
      They have there in Holland sheer lack of spirituality, sodomy and grass, and in Malaysia, so is Islam in general. That is, they managed to sin to the eyeballs. And then they were martyred, and all their sins will be forgiven. Moreover, those who managed to pull on an oxygen mask after being hit had time to repent.
      1. Liam
        Liam 18 July 2020 22: 54 New
        -2
        If no banter, then fortunately. For them no one had time to put on a mask and death was almost instantaneous
        1. Cristall
          Cristall 22 July 2020 23: 58 New
          -1
          Quote: Liam
          If no banter, then fortunately. For them no one had time to put on a mask and death was almost instantaneous

          President of the Civil Aviation Partner Foundation Oleg Smirnov
          In the event of an instantaneous depressurization of an aircraft at an altitude of 10 thousand meters, instant death of all living things on board occurs. Precisely instantly, because nitrogen in the blood boils, which turns into bubbles, and the entire circulatory system, including the brain, is instantly clogged.
  23. Konstantin Cherepanov
    Konstantin Cherepanov 19 July 2020 05: 02 New
    0
    Our family flew exactly the same route a week before the Boeing was shot down. We flew on an Aeroflot plane. The flight was monitored on the information board on the plane. Just flew through the Donbass.
  24. Li17
    Li17 19 July 2020 06: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    I would have been silent, we sorted it out together, you would look the truth and reveal it, and so it seems that all the parties are hiding the evidence together!

    actually, one side not only hid the evidence, but also removed the witnesses! Well, the leader of the Redskins, who were once cleaned up by benefactors and your partners, guess three times?
  25. Nadezhda Rassolova (Semenova)
    Nadezhda Rassolova (Semenova) 19 July 2020 13: 49 New
    +1
    Painfully. Such a tragedy, what can one say to the Western world, broadcasting from all media channels, about its goal to prove the truth, in fact, they have been marking time for six years. Can they testify against the real perpetrators? The path to the truth is difficult, but the Russian Federation will withstand and prove who is guilty of this tragedy.
  26. Ivan Pugachev
    Ivan Pugachev 19 July 2020 23: 50 New
    +1
    I don’t believe in deliberate provocation. No need to complicate things, everything is much easier. APU shot down a Boeing by accident. Most likely they wanted to flood Putin’s plane, but they missed. The color of the Malaysian Boeing is white-blue-red. One to one with the Il-96 of the President of Russia. To bring down an enemy president’s plane over the battlefield is a holy thing! Someone was probably hoping to get the title of Hero of Ukraine ... But Putin flew through Poland, and Boeing fell under the hand. It was not for nothing that the pilot of the Ukrainian Armed Forces said the phrase that the plane was the wrong one and in the wrong place. The only chance for Ukraine to avoid accusations of mass murder was to blame it on Russia. Therefore, the dispatchers were hidden, and the Americans played along and classified satellite images, proving the guilt of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They also did not want to shoot down Tu-134 over the Black Sea, it just so happened ...
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 20 July 2020 10: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Ivan Pugachev
      The color of the Malaysian Boeing is white-blue-red. One to one with the Il-96 of the President of Russia.

      In your imagination, obviously, the crew commander looks through binoculars and, with a wave of the checker in the direction of the target, gives the order to open fire. Something like the Japanese anti-aircraft gunners in the movie Midway (old). But even in this case, it would be problematic to confuse the twin-engined Boeing with the four-engined Il. Not to mention the fact that by the time of the flight over Donbass the plane was flying several hundred kilometers in the airspace of Ukraine and was driven by its dispatchers, which means there could be no doubt that it was overboard.
      1. Cristall
        Cristall 23 July 2020 00: 02 New
        -2
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        But even in this case, it would be problematic to confuse the twin-engined Boeing with the four-engined Il. Not to mention the fact that by the time it flew over Donbass, the plane was walking several hundred kilometers in the airspace of Ukraine and was flown by its dispatchers, which means that there could be no doubt that it was overboard.

        the most delusional version.
        Considering that board 1 is still over Poland and flies through the territory of the Republic of Belarus without entering the airspace of Ukraine.
        And everyone sees and knows this ... and this was announced in advance.
        But I still listen to this version a hundred times already ..
        Well, not if someone with binoculars stood and waited (echelon 10 330 m that he would have seen there). But Buk would hardly have been entrusted to such a person.
  27. Alsur
    Alsur 23 July 2020 08: 33 New
    -1
    Quote: Cristall
    Quote: ALSur
    If in Ukraine the new government did not start an armed struggle against the Donbass, the attitude towards Ukraine would remain as before among Russians as it was before the age of 14, Ukraine until the age of 14 would remain a fraternal country, the same as Belarus. But after 14 years, the attitude of Russians became more critical of the brothers.

    That is, to welcome separatism, not to pay attention to the Crimea and the seizure of everything there, the murder of Ukrainian servicemen and the seizure of property, and let other regions rock in order to destroy the country. At the same time, were the Russians loyal?
    I remember very well the 2014 comments from Crimea. All that are for us - Ukrainians / Russians, against us - all Bandera. Ukrainians for Ukraine do not come to mind of the average Russian at all. As if they do not exist and should not use arms to crush the disintegration of their country and the annexation of its territories during a period of inadequacy of the center.
    In the name of brotherhood, loyalty, friendship and great love for the Russians, we did not shoot when the Russians began to seize Crimea. Now they accuse us of cowardice. Our victims are silent and spread fakes about the bloodlessness of the capture, and everyone for Ukraine was ranked among the Bandera ...
    I have a counter question - in a similar situation with your country, would you remain a loyal fraternal country? By the way, the behavior of Ukrainians is still tolerant ... Still, not entirely southern countries. Arabs have emotions over the edge there ...
    and then 13.22% of the territory ... while we are to blame for the loss of loyalty of Russians to Ukrainians ...
    I know that many preferred the country to disintegrate, be destroyed, but the Russians remained loyal to us (but only to those who are not "Bandera")

    And we (the Russians) were already in a similar situation, as a large number of Ukrainians and Baltic people took part in the Chechen company on the side of the separatists. But this did not develop into hatred of Ukraine or the Baltic states, even today, after so many demarches by your authorities. You can still remember the Georgian conflict, where, although not the main thing, Ukraine's participation was already at the state level. And this, let me remind you, is all long before 2014. And the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine itself also has many questions, as well as the Donbass.