Undergoing modernization "Marshal Shaposhnikov" went on sea trials

Undergoing overhaul and modernization at the Dalzavod ship repair center, the former BOD of project 1155, and now the frigate Marshal Shaposhnikov, first went to factory sea trials. This was reported by the press service of the Pacific Fleet.

According to the report, the frigate left the Dalzavod and entered the Sea of ​​Japan at the first stage of factory sea trials. At this stage, the operation of the main power plant and related equipment will be checked, after which the ship will return to the factory to continue repairs.

After checking at sea the operation of the main power plant to complete the commissioning complex, the ship will land at the Dalzavod pier

- reported in the press service fleet.

As specified, work on the ship are on schedule, without disruption. The Marshal Shaposhnikov is due to return to the fleet before the end of this year.

As previously reported, the former BOD of project 1155 "Marshal Shaposhnikov" in the summer of 2019 was retrained as frigate. This decision was made by the Ministry of Defense.

During the modernization, the Marshal Shaposhnikov has already installed the Uran anti-ship complex with X-35 missiles, the universal caliber, Onyx or Zircon cruise missile launcher, the Bagira fire control system for naval artillery, the ship electronic suppression complex TK-25; bow artillery mount replaced. More than 20% of the ship’s superstructure were dismantled and newly manufactured, the hull was repaired, and other work was carried out.

The BOD was laid down on May 25, 1983, launched on December 27, 1984, and commissioned on December 30, 1985. In the Pacific Fleet since 1986.

Total displacement - 7480 tons, standard - 6840 tons. Length 163 meters, width 19 meters, draft 7,8 meters. Speed ​​30 knots, economical 14 knots. The crew of 220 people, including 29 officers.

Comments

[tlauicol]

finally gone, darling. They robbed him of course ... under the pot

[Swan]

Ideally, all ships pr.1155 should be modernized. Let's hope.

[tlauicol]

ideally, new ships are needed, not Trishkin Kaftan

[Swan]

Do you propose cutting these? No one is against the new ships, but we must not forget about the living.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Lebed

Do you propose cutting these?

They are now from 30 to 40 years old. They were made in Ukraine, we won’t get any new ones, but we won’t do them ourselves — that is, you can get confused, but it makes no sense, you could have time to do new frigates. In general, you don’t have to make a game - you need to spend a lot of money, equally will not be long.
It was worth upgrading them in 2010-2020, then yes, about 15 or even 20 would still have gone.

[hydrox]

Yes, we should at least modernize this dozen so that it will be enough for 5-10 years while the new ones are under construction - we simply cannot now become unarmed.
However, if this cockroach fuss with modernization continues each time for 3 - 5 - 8 years, then you are certainly right - this is not the case and these are not the results (but how many more nuclear submarines?).

[alexmach]

Running them were made in Ukraine, we won’t get new ones, but we won’t do them ourselves — that is, you can get confused, but it makes no sense, you would have time to do new frigates

In my opinion, it would be worthwhile to get confused with these running gears. And even more than once they reported that some work on this topic was being carried out there. Another thing is that there were more than once reports of the failure of these works.
While the arrival of new ships has not been established, and it will take a lot of time, the old ones must be maintained in service and in combat readiness.

It is difficult to disagree with the fact that the missed moment for the timely modernization of the ship's crew is difficult.

[Alex777]

In my opinion, it would be worthwhile to get confused with these running gears.

The word BROKEN in your phrase is the key.
Only 4 1155 Pacific Fleets are planned for modernization, as far as I am aware. Well, 1155.1 "Adm. Chabanenko" on the Northern Fleet.
Although what of "Chabanenko" will be done is still not clear.
If for these 4-5 old ships "from scratch" we create both GEM and gearboxes, their cost will exceed all conceivable limits.
Even the gearboxes for the 22350 are made in some way, since there is no prospect of mass production. IMHO.
And with mass production of 20386 nothing is clear either.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

Even the gearboxes for the 22350 are made in some way, since there is no prospect of mass production. IMHO.
And with mass production of 20386 nothing is clear either.

Or this or that. The choice for an adequate person is obvious.

[Swan]

Quote: Alex777

Only 4 1155 Pacific Fleets are planned for modernization, as far as I am aware. Well, 1155.1 "Adm. Chabanenko" on the Northern Fleet.

Perhaps this is really the most reasonable. While one half of the 1155s is being repaired, the other half is finally dilapidated.

[alexmach]

If for these 4-5 old ships "from scratch" we create both GEM and gearboxes, their cost will exceed all conceivable limits.

Is it really necessary to create them "from scratch"? Isn't it possible to just copy existing aggregates?

Even the gearboxes for the 22350 are made in some way, since there is no prospect of mass production

Then the situation is completely stalemate.

Or this or that. The choice for an adequate person is obvious.

At the current construction rate of 22350, it is actually necessary to do both at the same time. Old Soviet ships could be gradually abandoned if at least new frigates and corvettes were "baked like cakes."

Only 4 1155 Pacific Fleet are planned for modernization, as far as I know

And how can they be modernized without the production of engines. After modernization, they also need to serve at least 10 more years. Cannibalize the remaining BOD and TFR?

But in general, frankly, it seems that the Pacific Fleet is now the only fleet for which at least according to paper plans they do at least some
1. Completing a team of corvettes
2. Started the modernization of Gadgets
3. They talk about the modernization of all 4 BOD.

[alexmach]

Even the gearboxes for the 22350 are made in some way, since there is no prospect of mass production. IMHO

By the way .. the single bookmark day was canceled and the 2 promised ships have not yet been laid ...

[Alex777]

By the way .. single day bookmark canceled

We are waiting for the Navy Day. With hope.
IMHO, the GDP wants to be personally.

[hydrox]

Do not complicate it :: M90FR are already available for the 4th year.

[Alex777]

Do not simplify. Gearboxes and testing of the power plant assembly ZORIA did.
https://flotprom.ru/2020/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F%D0%92%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%84%D1%8C1/

[hydrox]

For 4 years, they could have prepared their specialists and trained them: do not know what kind of integrals to take - you need to look into the future and prepare the base ALWAYS, otherwise such a guide is worthless.

[hydrox]

The whole problem is that ALL shipyards are in private hands, and it is much more profitable for owners to build 3-5 crab fishermen in half a year, having received the cache for this as much as the destroyer would cost, but at the same time bear no responsibility and bear no obligations and reporting to the tax authorities.

[hydrox]

But you must agree :: add a bit of displacement, give a complete air defense forcemeat with a good panoramic radar (you can even use a helicopter), add a dozen or two products of twice the range than the Caliber, give the ASEU - and you get a completely fine and not even very light cruiser, which is not ashamed to show the Russian flag anywhere (and it’s not at all Burke!)

[Alex777]

Everything you said is on the 22350M.

[hydrox]

Don't you really understand what "full air defense stuffing" is?
Or do you have a pair of diesels equal to one ASEU?
Or just for some reason you don't want to understand?
Then be ashamed ...

[bayard]

Quote: hydrox

Don't you really understand what "full air defense stuffing" is?

And what do you mean by this concept?
Pull the S-500 on a frigate? With everything put to him by the RLC?
1155 is a BOD (large anti-submarine ship), it has all the weapons and avionics tailored precisely for this - PLO. And he has air defense only in the near zone, with a range of destruction of 15-17 km.
While at 22350 - "Polyment-Redut" with a distant line of interception up to 150 km.
I hope the 22350M will retain the same radar and missile defense system as on the Gorshkov, only the ammunition load will increase. In this configuration, it will be the optimal ship DMZ - OZ.
And if you need to pile up the S-400, S-500 on a ship, then please - design a full-fledged cruiser.
That's just such an undertaking not at all possible for USC alas ... They can’t even build corvettes normally.
Ordinary corvettes VI 2200 t of project 20380.
And frigates are also NORMAL can not .
Does not work .
To master the money - it turns out.
Ships to build - NO.
And it is very sad.

Quote: hydrox

Or do you have a pair of diesels equal to one ASEU?

But you generally give up these fantasies. Nuclear power plants did not take root on surface ships. Neither in our country (in the USSR), nor in the USA (which always had enough technical capabilities and funds for all experiments).
The USSR was very (!!!) disappointed with the cost and complexity of the Orlan project with nuclear power plants.
VERY !
So much so that the planned series of 10 such ships was cut off to 4, and even then ONLY for the sake of combat support and work in tandem with the atomic aircraft carrier (aircraft carriers) of the Ulyanovsk type, of which 4 pieces were going to be built.
And instead of these atomic monsters, they ordered the construction of 10 missile cruisers of the Slava type, of which only 4 had been built by the collapse of the Union. , and accepted into operation 3. Which to this day serve.
The cost of building the "Orlan" ... in the USSR (!) ... cost more expensive than an aircraft carrier (TAVKR) of the "Krechet" type. And the operation of such a cruiser was MUCH more expensive than the operation of Soviet aircraft carriers.
Plus, special requirements for infrastructure (they will not let them go to any port, they will not be able to serve them at any base).
So it is optimal for modern Russia to build frigates 22350 and frigate-destroyers 22350M.
And if suddenly the country's leadership and the naval authorities have a desire to have something monumental, then there is nothing easier and more affordable - to execute a destroyer / cruiser with a displacement of 4-90 thousand tons on 12 gas turbines M14FR with the same ammunition load of the KR as and is offered for the "Leader" (up to 80 pcs.) and the enhanced SAM (and, accordingly, the radar) up to the S-400 level. Two helicopters and other "stuffing".
That is, something similar to the Chinese "type-055".
Not very expensive and VERY angry.
And no special restrictions on operation.

In the meantime, in OUR reality, the most banal corvettes do not come out with us (our USC).
No diesels.
And you are dreaming about nuclear power plants.

[hydrox]

Thank you for the detailed answer: it is clear that you are a fan of the fleet, but they will not take you to the GS - it requires horizons of thinking 5-10-20 years in advance. Yes, and at the present level there will also be problems: what can you say that people with very great powers and COMPETENCIES say that digitalization can become the basis of the sixth technological structure (I’m not talking about GDP: it’s just not a natural person, but a HSE listener - but this grass will end soon!). After that, it remains only to roll a glass of something strong for their unlucky fate - living in a state with such a leadership.
Now, more to the point: "Shaposhnikov" had a specialization in the BLK in Soviet times and in Soviet military realities - after all, then motorized riflemen drove shishigas and fought with tanks with RPGs.
Now the times are different, and the threats have modernized: what can you say about the ship, on which one and a half, two hundred small missile-guided missiles and a flock of the same number of assault drones, flies from all points at once? That's right, this is a victim, and you give the victim the right to live until the next similar attack? Then it’s a pity the crew - not the tenants ... And this is the fate of any so-called frigate, built according to your air defense ideology - and what kind of frigate S-500? Moreover, such a frigate (and even a cruiser!), In principle, will not be able to fight back even from anti-radar missiles, and without a radar the ship is again a victim.
Thus, autonomous swimming is completely contraindicated for such a trough, and you give me "DMZ-OZ" ...
So a frigate (if this is not a 6-row boat, a couple of S-350s will be enough (this is a frigate, not an aircraft carrier, so much effort will not be put into it to drown).
As for Glory :: I read (twice!) Her tasks and admired (so that I could cry later) - M-va in today's performance has no place at all in the ship's crew when working in today's conditions - she simply does not have tasks for application within conformity to the modern Doctrine ..
NPS for surface ships is a separate song, but reactor maintenance in a foreign port is something !!

[bayard]

Quote: hydrox

but they will not take you to the HS - horizons of thinking 5-10-20 years in advance are required there.

I understand that they didn’t take you either?
And about the horizons of thinking and planning ... I have so much on these topics on this site that I repeat laziness.

Quote: hydrox

Now, more to the point: "Shaposhnikov" had a specialization in the BLK in Soviet times and in the Soviet military realities - after all, then motorized riflemen also drove shishigas

The 1155s went on a long voyage (they had to go according to the concept) with the Sarychs. Therefore, the "Sarych" had a medium-range air defense system, while 1155 had only a close range. Together, they fought off a massive raid of the KR (up to 10 pieces).

Quote: hydrox

Now the times are different, and the threats have modernized: what can you say about the ship, on which one and a half, two hundred small missile-guided missiles and a flock of the same number of assault drones, flies from all points at once?

They will fly , but who will let them go. From what carrier are these hundreds of Pepelians going to fly into an offensive frigate?
And if such a lot of ammunition is not spared on him, then what kind of animal is he like? What attracted so much attention?
And if he has such an outstanding mission, then what the hell is he hanging out in your proposed OZ?
The owl on the globe looks dashing, but ... not very believable.

Quote: hydrox

Do you give the victim the right to live until the next similar attack?

In both!
You do not have enough 3 - 4 hundreds of imaginary rockets and drones, so you also decided to repeat? Generous soul !
I will answer you in return - GIVE!
And the right to life.
And the right to heroic death.
And just the same I bless for the fulfillment of the set BZ.

Quote: hydrox

and what ryu frigate S-500?

STOP!
It was already your idea - to dump the full air defense on the unfortunate frigate.
Well, if the frigate is too small for such an undertaking, buy a bulk carrier or a bulk carrier and bring down whatever your heart desires. I bless you.
But only at his own expense.
A joke.

Quote: hydrox

Moreover, such a frigate (and even a cruiser!), In principle, will not be able to fight back even from anti-radar missiles, and without a radar the ship is again a victim.

Goofy!
This is how the anti-radar missile differs from all other KR in that it is impossible to beat it off?
Even if it (oh horror) ... over (!) Sound?
It completely goes astray, like all other missiles. She just has a passive GOS. Maybe by the way and get trapped ...

Quote: hydrox

So a frigate (if it’s not a 6-row boat, a couple of S-350s will be enough

... Young man . What are you going to do with TWO (!!!) divisional kits of the land (but very good) anti-aircraft missile system (I hope by the word "complex" you did not mean the regimental kit ...) on my quite decent (and very decent) ) frigate?
Not !
You positively need a completely different ship ... I would even say - a ship. Very large, with an open and flat deck.
In order to place on it (on the deck, for why such good in the hold to carry?) Both your S-350 divisions , as well as (walking like that!) the S-400 division and ... (after all, "full stuffing" is impossible without this) - the S-500 division!
I'm scared already .
It will take a very large ship ...
And I feel sorry for his captain.

Quote: hydrox

M-va in today's performance does not have a place in the ship’s composition

Eco Are you with her - "Moscow" then?
Already expelled from the composition?
And you are by chance not the president of this country?
Because even the Minister of Defense alone will not dare to such insolence.

Quote: hydrox

but servicing a reactor in a foreign port is something !!

What are you, young man!
You and the NPP will not be allowed into this very port.
Even in his, perhaps.
Even with a drowned reactor.
On diesels ...

And you ... repair the reactor ... .
Chase you with such a reactor with ... old rags ...
Far chase.

And "Moscow" - will not be chased. Because SCARY (with such missiles) ... but pretty.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: bayard

The 1155s went on a long voyage (they had to go according to the concept) with the Sarychs. Therefore, the "Sarych" had a medium-range air defense system, while 1155 had only a close range. Together, they fought off a massive raid of the KR (up to 10 pieces).

But the concept was covered with a copper basin right away.

[bayard]

Quote: Cyril G ...

But the concept was covered with a copper basin right away.

I know.
But such was the naval design idea in flight.
However, the "Frigates" ran quite briskly on their own.
And they also provided the PLG AUG and the KUG of the Soviet Navy.
In general, these ships (1155) are purely aesthetically pleasing to me ... very much.

[hydrox]

Quote: bayard

That is, something similar to the Chinese "type-055".
Not very expensive and VERY angry.
And no special restrictions on operation.

Here you have no reason to object, but what's the matter?
M90FR were tested in 17, at the same time they were put into a series - in your opinion, a series is 2-3 sets? FOURTH YEAR Saturn has been producing these engines - why are they more complicated than aircraft engines that we produce in the hundreds a year?
For such cases, the IVS had a thick blue pencil and a resolution: "Not a tenant!"

[bayard]

Quote: hydrox

M90FR were tested in 17, then put in a series - do you think the series is 2-3 sets?

I think no more.
And if this delivery is called a series, it is only experienced.
And this GEM was tested (for frigate 22350) was ONLY at the stand.
Alas.
On a real ship it has not yet been tested.
And they will test it only next year ... But some hoped that by the end of this ...

Quote: hydrox

FOURTH year "Saturn" releases these engines

He does not let out, he - DEVELOPES their production.

Quote: hydrox

how they are more difficult than airplane

Young man .
It's just ... completely different "engines".
And they work on the gearbox.
Which is also a very difficult thing to perform.
And also a diesel unit runs on this gearbox.
With completely different revolutions and dynamic characteristics.
And on one running gear you need to marry two completely different engines ...
AND MANDATORY to test on the go.
In all modes.
And identify the flaws.
And eliminate them.
And only after identifying, eliminating and testing again ... GES can be launched in series.
And only then will it be possible with a pure heart to announce the neighborhood with the news of the launch of a new GEM in the SERIES.

Quote: hydrox

How are they more complicated than the aircraft that we produce hundreds of a year?

I don’t know what, and how much, you release per year ...
But if you put together all the aircraft engines, for all types of aircraft ... well ... perhaps you can formulate this way ...
But the whole problem is that it's a few ... others ... although they are also gas turbine engines.
And the main problem is not in them - gas turbines, but IN REDUCERS.
Which in Russia have never done before (as well as gas turbines for them).
They were made in the former Ukraine.
Now they ALREADY do it with us.
They do.
But not yet in serial.
And for now ... they’re not exploiting.

Quote: hydrox

For such cases, the IVS had a thick blue pencil and a resolution: "Not a tenant!"

To the authors of such combinations of "wise" letters into words, more ... Comrade Lenin bequeathed:
Study !
.......... Study !
................ And once again - LEARN !!!
And comrade Lenin, comrade Stalin ... called his teacher ...
Listen to the wise advice of older comrades ...
Learn.
And maybe ...
Someday ...
...... you can argue your opinion ... in a less funny way.

[hydrox]

Something is not enough for you under the keel: the missile defense system was installed on the frigate, but why then did you pass by Yars?
No, I am not fit to talk with you, I am embarrassed very close to such a thing.
Blame if something is wrong
But in your opinion, there will be no ...
And he called Lenin in different words ...
And why go far: "The Kremlin dreamer" is also not a simple nickname ... only the realization of dreams did not go according to grandfather's precepts, even if it came to that.

[bayard]

Quote: hydrox

But in your opinion, there will be no ...

Time will tell - it will be like.
Well, for now, both 22350 and 22350M are quite compatible with my opinion.

[hydrox]

Quote: bayard

Well, for now, both 22350 and 22350M are quite compatible with my opinion.

Yes of course ...
Therefore, Oppa constantly wanders next to your opinion on the open spaces of the Russian fleet ...

[Cyril G ...]

I hope the 22350M will retain the same radar and missile defense system as on the Gorshkov, only the ammunition load will increase. In this configuration, it will be the optimal ship DMZ - OZ.

Only an increase in ammunition in the UVP and the replacement of Broadswords with Pantsyry. The second helicopter, if possible, if fit.

And if you need to pile up the S-400, S-500 on a ship, then please - design a full-fledged cruiser

I don’t see the point in the marine carrier of the missile defense complex from the word

[bayard]

Quote: Cyril G ...

I don’t see the point in the marine carrier of the missile defense complex from the word

I absolutely agree with you.
And even if someday we decide on something like 055, then nothing bigger than the S-400 should be poked there.

[hydrox]

This is for you to Bayard: he put heavy complexes on my proposal and "successfully" refutes me (the sofa (although competent) - nothing can be done about it). And we were talking about the possibility of network-centric control of swarms of small missile launchers and UAVs when attacking a frigate - he faded from the conversation ...

[bayard]

Quote: hydrox

This is for you to Bayard: he hung heavy complexes on my proposal and "successfully" refutes me (divan (although competent)

I have a chair. With wheels and a folding back.

Quote: hydrox

And it was a question of the possibility of network-centric control of swarms of small missiles and UAVs when attacking a frigate

There is such a POTENTIAL possibility ... But where will such swarms come to the ocean or far sea zone?
Moreover in such quantity?
What range are they supposed to have, and who is the bearer of this abundance?
Each decent swarm should have its own carrier - its own Uterus.
A swarm without Uterus ... no way.
And the frigate (like any other self-respecting ship) will fight back from the swarm you have proposed:
- using regular electronic warfare equipment, breaking the swarm’s communication with the control center and the participants in the swarm with powerful signals.
- a standard on-board station for optical-location suppression of optical homing heads - blinding the OLS of drones and KR.
- a standard RP complex of radar homing heads for the Kyrgyz Republic (it’s most convenient to deceive the airborne radio altimeter of the Kyrgyz Republic and simply drop it into the sea ... or take away the Kyrgyz Republic to a false target \ target ... or stupidly block the airborne radar of the Kyrgyz Republic ...).
- a standard set of passive jamming - a cloud of aerosols or dipoles being fired (creating a false target and covering the ship itself).
- fired by active radar traps-simulators (hanging on a parachute box emits a signature similar to the signature of a ship, attracting anti-radar missiles ... all active radiation sources are cut down at that moment).
* Active countermeasures:
- medium-range air defense systems will hit the Kyrgyz Republic at, respectively, the average distance (40 - 150 km.).
- SAM near zone, will hit targets at a distance of 5 - 40 km.
- ZRAK will hit the bursting targets (shoot damaged, but flying) at a distance of 500 - 3000 \ 3500 m. (Maybe up to 5000 m, but that's not accurate).
- An automatic cannon of the main caliber (100 \ 130 mm. Caliber) with shells with controlled / programmable detonation, barrage fire will hit targets at a distance of 5 - 7 and even 10 km. Very effective against swarm structures from a large number of drones.

And also the constructive defense of the ship’s vital systems will play its role, for small, though numerous drones will carry warheads of very limited power. Consequently, they won’t be able to do much harm to the ship ... Rather, they will simply scratch its skin with fragments.

I hope I at least partially satisfied your thirst for knowledge?

[hydrox]

Satisfied ...
... at the KMB level: they simply don’t have enough education to formulate questions for you (like the ones you asked me). Thank you very much for your time.
Next time try to do the same, adding links to probability theory and the theory of large numbers ... it will be significantly more effective, but the probability of a complete absence of questions will increase.
And swarms arrive, as a rule, from where they are not expected or are not preparing for it.

[bayard]

Quote: hydrox

references to probability theory and the theory of large numbers

The theory of probability is to Einstein, or reference books to each weapon model. It’s a sin to do pivot tables ... it’s a sin to sit down for this — we have capitalism.
But the theory of large numbers is my favorite theory from the section of matanalysis. That's just the exact, unequivocal answer she does not give , it only indicates \ denotes a zone of mathematical expectation.
To describe the measures of counteraction to swarm structures - quite a suitable theory. I would calculate the probabilistic parameters of countermeasures as such through the Fibonacci number.

[hydrox]

C'mon, drove by already ...

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Alex777

Everything you said is on the 22350M.

that's just the 22350M itself is not yet in the design documentation (!) (like the GEM for it) ...

Quote: hydrox

The whole problem is that ALL shipyards are in private hands, and the owners are much more profitable to build .....

???! just a moment (!)But is USC not a state shipbuilding holding ?! ...

[Alex777]

that's just the 22350M itself is not yet in the design documentation (!) (like the GEM for it)

https://tass.ru/ekonomika/7394063
When they are about to build, we will all know.
So far the question has hung. Why? I do not know.

???! wait a minute (!), and USC is not a state shipbuilding holding

Why spoil the picture of a friend?

[hydrox]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

???! wait a minute (!), but is the USC not a state shipbuilding holding ?! ..

I already spoke somewhere here. that all this Russian state capitalism consists in the privatization of profits and the nationalization of losses (I apologize if I repeated)

[Grits]

Quote: Alex777

Everything you said is on the 22350M.

With the exception of the atomic engine

[Alex777]

Because he is not needed.

[Grits]

Quote: hydrox

add a dozen or two products twice as long as Caliber

Do you know about such people?

[hydrox]

Do not quibble: in our time (in the absence of ALL restraining agreements) to do such a job is less than 2-3 years of work together with tests - and you will have to think hard whether we need ocean-going ships with autonomy for six months or a year.

[Alex777]

The development of Caliber-M has been announced.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5979716

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

It was worth upgrading them in 2010-2020

I do not quite agree, they also went, and why should the combat-ready ships be modernized? and now it's time, As for the turbines, I don’t see a problem producing such turbines, if one can be done then why not 10, 1155 is a good project, and there are 7-9 more of them, it’s quite possible to make serial modernization for one project, this is much better, than any unnecessary aircraft carriers, udk or superlinkor destroyers that would immediately die in the first mine and, in a torpedo, or on a third missile, it would be better to save on Kuzi's repair or to sell it to China India and for this money would build minesweepers and submarines .... ., up to the point that it is better to commercially upgrade all 1155 than to spend money on Peter the Great, the repair of Nakhimov seemed prohibitively expensive.

[bayard]

Quote: vladimir1155

1155 good project

You can't argue with that. But it is simply not possible to upgrade the entire series at one shipyard. In Vladivostok, it turned out (it turns out), and God forbid that all Pacific BODs could be modernized on it. But where should the SF BOD be upgraded? There is an extremely shortage of ship repair facilities - look how long the modernization of "Nakhimov" lasts and how long it took for "Ustinov" ...
This is sadness.
If the capacities allowed the modernization of the 1155s in the SF, it would be just wonderful ... but they are not. But frigates 22350 come primarily to the SF ... at least some compensation.
And the power plant at Shaposhnikov seems to have just been repaired. And it’s very good that it turned out to be repaired - there were problems and big doubts.

Quote: vladimir1155

It would be better if they saved on the repair of Kuzi or sold it to China, India and with this money they built minesweepers and submarines ..

The problem is not the availability of funds. The problem is capacity and competence. No more frigates will be built because the Kuznetsov is written off.
And minesweepers.
Build as much as possible. Though pour money, but if there is nobody to build, then there will still be no ships.
Here in the "zero" money was enough - ordered dozens of corvettes and frigates ...
And? ...
Not shmogli.
Money alone was not enough.
I had to create a USC, buy the shipyards from the owners, restore cooperation and all competencies along the chain ... But they missed the engine building - they hoped for Ukraine and the Germans ...
Alas.
Miscalculated.
Now this competency is being restored \ created from scratch.
And until ALL the components of the entire cooperation cycle are recreated, nothing good will come of it - it will break in the thinnest places.
And engines are the cornerstone of shipbuilding. As soon as their reliable diesel engines of the required power, their gas turbines and gearboxes appear, everything will immediately begin to change.
For the better .

[Sergey Kazarinov]

"Their running gear was made in Ukraine." What are you talking about, boy? All chassis took place either in the Gulf of Finland (if the construction of the Northern Shipyard), or in the southern part of the BM (if the construction of the Yantar shipyard). It's never too late to modernize, because the 1155s are very good ships, more tenacious than Sarychs

[Alex777]

By the word "running" Andrey meant the power plant.
Therefore, they were "done" and not "passed".

[tarakanovaleksei]

The chassis was made not in Ukraine, but in the Soviet Union.

[Good forester]

And Trishkin caftan will go for the first time. Patch up and in a good way. And new ships are being built. The truth is not so fast, but still things are moving forward.

[Boris Chernikov]

alas, but the pots are built very slowly, so 1155 needs to be modernized, do not be like Gref)

[hydrox]

Do you still doubt where the place is reserved for Gref?
Do not hesitate :: GDP began to fulfill item No. 1: not a day without arrest.

[moreman78]

If 6 units are upgraded (3 on the SF and 3 on the Pacific Fleet) - and that’s good. And then the terms will begin to shift again, and the bodies will rot.

[hydrox]

Reasonable.
Poets don’t understand that ANY sophisticated equipment can last three times longer if it is modernized in time - and this is a global tendency that in relation to airplanes, to tanks - to ANY high-priced equipment - the whole world has been doing this for 300-400 years (even the bronze guns were sent for re-drilling with an increase in caliber).
Poets is not aware that if the army is equipped with freshly made weapons at once, then funds equivalent to the entire 8-10-year GDP of the country will be spent on this, and let the poets strain their brains in order to figure out what will happen to health care, education and other social programs and infrastructures.

[Fizik M]

Quote: Lebed

Ideally, all ships pr.1155 should be modernized. Let's hope.

yes, but alas, we were late with this ...

[d4rkmesa]

It's more like a "sports Canadian". =) PU X-35 is clear that it is not in size. But appearance is not the main thing for the ship.

[Pavel57]

There are places for 16 Uranus.

[Cyril G ...]

All that was, and screwed. I see 2 different antenna posts of air defense systems. Kinzhalovsky birdhouse behind, and in front of something not seen. A package - so the ship did not receive a pity.
It was necessary to start all this to do about 15 years ago. And the funniest thing could be done with little blood. Then a number of adequate people from the General Staff suggested investing the Onyx TPK in the Rastrub launcher - this has already made it possible to double the ammunition load. Instead, they decided to spend their hats on the Buyans. The result is on the face.

[Serg65]

Quote: Cyril G ...

It was necessary to start doing everything about 15 years ago

15 years ago, they put 7 bankers in a pose, they had to feed the people, were there any ships before?

[Cyril G ...]

From not necessary a. Then the fleet suffered garbage. After ditching the required number of attendants, they threw them to the Novik landfill, they had already built pr. etc.

[Serg65]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Then the fleet suffered garbage

Which one?

Quote: Cyril G ...

Already built pr.20380

Is it from fat or something?

Quote: Cyril G ...

built the first 3 Buyan

You do not confuse Buyan with Buyan-M!
In 2005, there were 3 Sarychs and 8 Frigates in 3 fleets in service .... who can you bring to modernization? Moreover, the construction of three strategists of the 955th 955A projects gobbled up 70% of the total military shipbuilding budget! There were basing places in the ass, sailors in droves from hopelessness were deducted from the fleet in droves. Here you come from inappropriately a!

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Serg65

You do not confuse Buyan with Buyan-M!

If this is Buyan, then according to your logic, do not spend money on it?

Quote: Serg65

Is it from fat or something?

Yes.
Once again, in 2004-2006, a number of GS specialists proposed a partial modernization of the existing 1155.
Its essence is the replacement of the 85Ru missile in the Trump shell with a pair of Onyx / Caliber TPKs, the replacement of MP-145 with Puma, the replacement of AK-630 with Duets. The second stage just provided for the replacement of 533 mm CTA-533 with PU Package-NK. It was quite a budget and the ships at the same time tinkering minimally, unlike Shaposhnikov.
Well, then it was necessary to organize a major overhaul of Kharlamov.

[alexmach]

If this is Buyan, then according to your logic, do not spend money on it?

In my opinion, the costs of those pair of Buyans and a couple of Buyanov-M that they did then for the Caspian were quite justified. Another thing is why now you spend money on them and they are already worth it in such quantity, it is completely not clear.

[Cyril G ...]

The construction of gunboats THEN was not justified. But there are no excuses for the lack of an adequate modernization program for large surface ships of the fleet (the direction of modernity is the improvement of RES, increasing the number of aircraft on board).

[Alex777]

The construction of gunboats THEN was not justified.

Then it was justified: because of the INF Treaty.
And now even "Peter" to modernize completely (like Nakhimov), it seems that they changed their minds.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

"Petra" to modernize completely

So it’s good. I was also surprised that after Vikra they did not realize what all this smells like ...

Quote: Alex777

Then it was justified: because of the INF Treaty.

How do you find cruise missiles on Project 21630 tell me well ?! I will sincerely rejoice with you. With this money, the minimum modernity of all 1155 was quite realistic to organize ..

[Alex777]

As you will find on Project 21630 cruise missiles

I spoke about 21631. Their construction was justified.

With this money, the minimum modernity of all 1155 was quite realistic to organize ..

Give the price of construction 3 x 21630 and the price of repair Shaposhnikov.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

Give the price of construction 3 x 21630 and the price of repair Shaposhnikov.

Calibration according to the plan developed in the General Staff would cost less. I already wrote about this.
I would certainly not suggest such an absurd modernization option as Shaposhnikov

[Alex777]

Are you a GS employee? Often mention it.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Well, then it was necessary to organize a major overhaul of Kharlamov.

а the main thing that had to be done MORE then, is to buy a license from Zarya-Mashproekt for this successful power plant (!) (as the Chinese, in turn, started shipbuilding programs on EM type 052D and type 055), and build a plant for it (well, or part of the areas of the same Kronstadt Plant). !!! Now, they could produce gas turbine engines М-О90, ДТ-59 and their gearboxes on their territory !!!, and then no question about the prospects for modernization of the remaining 1155 now stood (!), as well as the possibility of issuing NEW same ships (already from UKKS /from birth / bookmark/, and SAM "Polyment-Redut") .... !!

[Cyril G ...]

That's right ...
Except Redoubt's question. In fact, Calm-1 and PR partially overlap each other. And strong.

[Alex777]

In fact, Calm-1 and PR partially overlap each other. And strong.

Seriously?
Calm-1 was not planned at all for the Russian Navy.
Like 11356 too. But it turned out that they are.
Compare the speed of the affected targets in Calm-1 and PR.
Potm compare the number of simultaneously fired targets.
Then you will understand everything yourself.
And the last: Beech M3 with Calm-1 from the total only rocket has.
It is not necessary to consider the characteristics of the Buk M3 when evaluating Calm-1.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

Compare the speed of the affected targets in Calm-1 and PR.

What the hell am I digging now. Redoubts so generally can’t hit the target beyond 20-25 km. Bullshit is that Redoubt without Puma for an air target, in principle, does not fall ...

Quote: Alex777

It is not necessary to consider the characteristics of the Buk M3 when evaluating Calm-1.

Necessary.

Quote: Alex777

Potm compare the number of simultaneously fired targets.

And what will it give you?

Quote: Alex777

Seriously?

Seriously. It was necessary to pull either one complex or another

[Alex777]

What the hell am I digging now. Redoubts so generally can’t hit the target beyond 20-25 km. Bullshit is that Redoubt without Puma for an air target, in principle, does not fall ...

We heard a jingle about problems at 20380, but don’t know where he is.
Read - write less nonsense:
http://www.almaz-antey.ru/press-sluzhba/publikatsii-smi/na-chto-sposoben-noveyshiy-korabelnyy-kompleks-pvo-poliment-redut/
Everything is there. And about the possibility of launching missiles from UKKS, and about a long-range missile under 400 km.
And the problems of 20380 have long been resolved.

Quote: Alex777
It is not necessary to consider the characteristics of the Buk M3 when evaluating Calm-1.

Necessary.

Do not. Let me give you a hint: find the "Nuts" at the Beech M3.
When you do not find - the head will fall into place.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

find "Nuts" from Beech M3.

You will find Nuts at Buk. Hint, maybe you will return from the looking glass ... And the mind will return to you .. Good?

Quote: Alex777

Read - write less nonsense:
http://www.almaz-antey.ru/press-sluzhba/publikatsii-smi/na-chto-sposoben-noveyshiy-korabelnyy-kompleks-pvo-poliment-redut/
Everything is there. And about the possibility of launching missiles from UKKS, and about a long-range missile under 400 km.
And the problems of 20380 have long been resolved.

You write nonsense on the topic where neither with your ear or nose ...... And once again, personally, the problems of applying 9M96 missiles to Project 20380 have not been resolved to this day. Nowhere. There is only a workaround to at least somehow ... Yes, and 9M100 missiles on ships there.

[Alex777]

You will find Nuts at Buk. Hint, maybe you will return from the looking glass ... And the mind will return to you .. Good?

You are not in the subject at all.
I don’t see the point of continuing the discussion.
Shtil-1 has "nuts".
The architecture of the Buk M3 and Shtil-1 complexes is built fundamentally differently.
Disadvantages of "Nuts" - disadvantages of Calm-1.
Despite the fact that the rocket is capable of much.

[Alex777]

You write nonsense on the topic where neither ear nor nose ....

I'm actually a retired air defense officer.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

I'm actually a retired air defense officer.

And what are you trying to argue for naval issues.? You don’t take it apart obviously.

[Alex777]

Redoubts so generally can’t hit the target beyond 20-25 km. Bullshit is that Redoubt without Puma for an air target, in principle, does not fall ...

This is when they used it without Polement.

[Cyril G ...]

Once again, for those who do not know the question at all, there is no Pole on Corvettes. From the word in general. They forgot to put an adequate air defense system on the Corvette.
Polement-Redoubt with us only on pr.22350

To begin to understand something about Calm-1.

You are easier on the part of the calm neither your ear nor uh nose ....

[Alex777]

Quote: Alex777
Compare the speed of the affected targets in Calm-1 and PR.

What the hell am I digging now.

To begin to understand something about Calm-1.
The speed of the hit targets in the Buk M3 is 3000 m / s. Excellent result.
The speed of the hit targets at Calm-1 is 3,5 times less.
This is a consequence of the limitations in the design of those very "Nuts".
In modern conditions - it will not be enough.
Will finish your reasoning the speed of goals at PR. When you deign her to know.
As for the number of simultaneously fired targets, 22350 can fire from PR 16, and 11356 only 8.
http://roe.ru/catalog/voenno-morskoy-flot/korabelnoe-vooruzhenie/shtil-1/

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

is to buy out a license from Zarya-Mashproekt for this successful power plant

what for? this is a project of the ussr, and the rf receiver ... established in Rybinsk, everything turns out and without dill

[svp67]

Quote: Tlauicol

finally gone, darling.

At one time, there was a "salable" boat, where it was not noted, God forbid it a long and successful life, and long hikes ... "Seven feet under the keel ..."

[smart ass]

What does it mean they’ve been robbed

[tlauicol]

Quote: Clever man

What does it mean they’ve been robbed

That means they cut off, fooled

[musorg]

Botalo you dear

[smart ass]

What was removed?

[musorg]

Handsome man! And on top of the old photo.

[TermNachTer]

So UVP one or two?

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: TermNachTER

So UVP one or two

Two UKKS on 16 missiles.

[Vadim237]

The amount of Uranium could be doubled, and something of the Sea Shell is not observed in exchange for the old Cortiks - in short, modernization at XXXXXXXX.

[alexmach]

The amount of Uranium could be doubled

It is possible then it is possible, but is it necessary?

and something of the Sea Shell is not observed in exchange for the old Daggers

What damn dirks still? They were not there spawn .. well, except that the officers have some awards.

[TermNachTer]

"Uranus" can be added, but alas, this is yesterday. You can also understand their installation on old RTOs or etc. 61, but here they are not very good. They said about the "shell" that it would be put on the next one who would be put on modernization

[alexmach]

"Uranus" can be added, but alas, this is yesterday

Yesterday's not yesterday's, but the best in this class, Russia has not yet and does not seem to be expected. And it was not in vain that they put it on large ships; it is quite suitable for shooting all sorts of small targets. Do not spend a huge rocket on each boat. Even the Americans are planning to install 2 times more on their NSM frigates. More Uranus is not a fact that is needed. it is still not a "main calliber" but an auxiliary weapon ... And besides, as I understand it, delivering the same number of them is not a problem at all.

That’s what it’s a pity so that they didn’t add air defense to the ship ... Although, given the disputes above about the general purposefulness of large modernization, it may well have not been added.

And about the missiles - it would be necessary to have some more "antiboat" guided product. Whether the same Hephaestus, or adapt the universal rocket that was tested with MI-28 not so long ago.

[TermNachTer]

Shooting at boats with "uranium" is also not Feng Shui. The cost of a rocket is several times more expensive than a boat. As for the air defense system, I agree, it would be very desirable, something in the middle range.

[alexmach]

There are different boats, including rocket boats, and you also need to shoot something at them. In the 08.08.08 war, the quite "adult" raeta Termit was used on boats.

[TermNachTer]

Well, then there was absolutely nothing to bullet. You can come up with anti-boat missiles - cheap and cheerful.

[alexmach]

Well, then there was absolutely nothing to bullet

And now is there anything?

You can come up with anti-aircraft missiles - cheap and cheerful

So I already wrote about this a couple of comments above.

[bayard]

Quote: TermNachTER

Shooting at boats with "uranium" is also not Feng Shui. The cost of a rocket is several times more expensive than a boat.

On boats and the gun will work, why missiles to spend.
But replacing an air defense system is a very expensive and troublesome task, inappropriate for an old ship. I would have to completely rebuild the add-on for the new RLC ... a place for UVP missiles to look for ... re-plan everything ...
Let it be as it is - rejuvenated, improved health, and so on until retirement. Until the young come to the shift.

[alexmach]

On boats and the gun will work, why missiles to spend.

Well, let's say when attacking a group of high-speed boats, which may turn out to be martyr-boats, or they might use missile weapons themselves. I already wrote above that for some reason missiles were spent on Georgian boats and didn’t reach the artillery battle at all.

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

I already wrote above that for some reason missiles spent on Georgian boats and didn’t reach the artillery battle at all

There was not much choice there - a group of boats, and you had the Marine Corps under guard ... But the second boat was still taken out with Strela.
SAM for such purposes is quite successfully used.

[TermNachTer]

I myself agree. But I really wanted to ...))))

[Cyril G ...]

Corticost only on Chabanenko. But basically you are right. Already it was possible to fasten instead of the AK-630 and at the same time twist the armor

[TermNachTer]

Thank. This makes me happy.

[Alexey from Perm]

but somehow it began to look awkward ... but the main thing is that the combat properties improve, and the appearance, then

[TermNachTer]

"Chabanenko" also has one tower on the tank - nothing, they are used to it. Why does Shapshnikov need stealth - a tower, if he himself has never stealth.

[Grits]

Quote: Tlauicol

finally gone, darling. They robbed him of course ... under the pot

Yeah ... The view is clearly different from the search. In my opinion, the BOD of project 1155 is the most beautiful and elegant ship. But this is the case when quality and effectiveness can be sacrificed to appearance.
The photo was taken against the backdrop of Russky Island near the tip of the Russian Bridge.

[Alexey-74]

Good modernization of the Soviet heritage. I think other BOD must be modernized.

[Eldorado]

Seven feet under the keel!

[tlauicol]

He had a high VPU, it is interesting that they stuck it there, Satan or something?

[PROXOR]

VPU stand on Gus. So it's normal height.

[Doccor18]

Majestic ship! I would like to wish many years of service in the vast oceans ....
Only now the 35th year already, middle-aged.
After such a large-scale modernization, another 10 years will certainly go. And then...
New destroyers need to be laid right now, otherwise in 10-15 years we will remain without ships of the ocean zone altogether.

[Angelo Provolone]

As always, the smoke screen

[Cyril G ...]

Nus look. In general, the modernization is not successful in general.
So they removed two AK-100s. One clearly changed to UKKS. The second why change to what-new? At times, this will not raise efficiency.
Next, Leo was changed to Bagheera. Already familiar. Why onboard Pennants left? Saved? And why was it impossible to put one Puma instead of 3 radars?
I will continue - in the stern the familiar box of the Dagger. This is clear. And what's in the nose in its place? Some new antenna post !!! Why didn’t they change both posts? What with PU missiles left barbaras?
Well and most importantly, 533 mm TA are untouchable ?! So what? Why did the ship not receive the package? This significantly cuts the capabilities of PLO

[Serg65]

Quote: Cyril G ...

The second is why the newfangled change the meaning of what?

Spare parts for it will be produced at your expense?

[Cyril G ...]

Stupidity to say deigned. AK-100 is sufficiently reliable and overhaul to your attention is not a problem for today. And why do not you come to the glaring fact of not replacing the CTA-533 with the same logic?

[Serg65]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Stupidity say deigned

Well stupidity, so stupid .. you know better! Spare parts for the AK-100 who is releasing right now?

Quote: Cyril G ...

why you with the same logic do not approach the glaring fact of not replacing the CTA-533?

Well my friend, a torpedo tube is not a gun ... maybe 533 mm torpedoes are left in warehouses .. how much do I know. Moreover, in modern performance Shaposhnikov has become more of a drummer than an anti-submarine!

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Serg65

maybe 533 mm torpedoes left a lot in warehouses .. how much do I know.

With torpedoes, we already had a catastrophe. at least makes torpedoes to the Package. There is a glaring fact when, for several years, 1155 Ave. Avenue went into combat service with 4 SET-65 torpedoes and 4 53-65K torpedoes in the tubes. Why on NK take on board torpedoes 53-65K this great secret is. One explanation we do not have enough torpedoes even USET-80.

Quote: Serg65

became more of a drummer than an anti-submarine!

Did you unscrew the polynomial? This is still a very effective hack.

[Fizik M]

Quote: Serg65

... maybe 533 mm torpedoes left a lot in warehouses .. how much do I know.

just, YOU as usual LIE
proofs to confirm YOUR NONSENDS YOU are ready to bring?
especially considering the "juicy details" on the topic in the materials of arbitration

[Fizik M]

Quote: Cyril G ...

And why do not you come to the glaring fact of not replacing the CTA-533 with the same logic?

speak correctly
SET-65 instead of "Packet" on a modernized ship is "a mistake worse than a crime"

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Fizik M

SET-65 instead of "Packet" on a modernized ship is "a mistake worse than a crime"

for anti-torpedo protection functions, this ship can quite well use RBU-6000 (!), so whether there is a need for a "Package" (and whether its efficiency is greater than RBU, the question is not completely clear) ... well, for PLO, use TA 533 mm, under the same "Physicist / Case", (by range to targets), not the "Packet-NK" torpedo, and there is nothing to compare (!)... So why did you decide that there would be SET-65 or 53-65K torpedoes ?! not "Physicist / Case" ?!

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

so is there a need for a "Package"

It is necessary.

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

for anti-torpedo protection functions, this ship can fully
e imagine using RBU-6000 (!)

Can. The effectiveness of RBU torpedoes is extremely low

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

Well, for PLO, use TA 533 mm, under the same "Physicist / Case", (in terms of range to targets)

To do this, use PLUR first of all. Torpedoes - this is if the target is found nearby or finishing. Moreover, torpedoes need more, which means 324 mm torpedoes of the Package are enough.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Cyril G ...

It is necessary.

why ? fashion ?

Quote: Cyril G ...

The effectiveness of RBU torpedoes is extremely low

from which it follows that the effectiveness of the "Packet-NK" counter-torpedoes is higher ?! There are comparative tests, in the application of say 20380 corvettes (Package), and the same 1155 (with RBU), according to submarine torpedoes attacking them, from distances of 8-15-25 km ?!

Quote: Cyril G ...

To do this, use PLUR first of all.

Well, to the same "Shaposhnikov" (after modernization with the UKSK), nothing prevents from having 2-4 PLURs in ammunition, of 16 cells, isn't it ?!

Quote: Cyril G ...

Torpedoes - this is if the target is found nearby or finishing.

let's say a probable enemy submarine was found at 22-27 km ... and is trying to hide ?!

Quote: Cyril G ...

Moreover, torpedoes need more

well there are 8 pcs. 533 mm (and a package would give 8 pcs. 324 mm) ...

Quote: Cyril G ...

which means enough 324 mm torpedoes Package.

So what will you do (?), With the range of the "Packet-NK", 14-18 km ?? (this is if you do not take into account the fact that out of 8 units of 324 mm torpedoes, probably 3-4 tubes will be charged with anti-torpedoes) !!!

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

and trying to hide ?!

PLUR only

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

(and the package would give 8 pcs. 324 mm) ...

A package-NK can have up to 8 TPKs with torpedoes for installation, if you implement a light TA with reloading, the stock of torpedoes can in theory be brought to 32 pieces

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

with a range of "Packet-NK", 14-18 km ???

A boat at such a distance must still be discovered

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

in ammunition 2-4 PLUR,

In addition to the exit option for working as a gunboat, most likely there will be 8 PLUR + 8 KR

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

about the effectiveness of the anti-torpedoes "Packet-NK", higher ?!

Higher. According to RBU, even in TR the probability of a torpedo hitting a volley of RBU was indicated and it did not please.

[Fizik M]

Quote: Cyril G ...

AK-100 is sufficiently reliable and overhaul for your information is not a problem for today

there was NO need to "throw out" "weave"
because "Caliber" NORMALLY became in the standard PU KT-100 (with their reinstallation at an increased angle)
and it was still in TP "Caliber" !!!

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Cyril G ...

The second is why the newfangled change the meaning of what?

The new tower has less weight. She is 20 tons lighter, higher rate of fire. Two UKKS equipped missiles can weigh more than 70 tons. Therefore, the replacement of two AK-100s was obvious, both weigh 71 tons, against this background the A-190 will require fewer changes, especially since it weighs 15 tons and gives a gain both in weight and in characteristics.
So replaced.

[Fizik M]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

The new tower has less weight. She is 20 tons lighter, higher rate of fire. Two UKKS equipped missiles can weigh more than 70 tons. Therefore, the replacement of two AK-100s was obvious, both weigh 71 tons, against this background, the A-190 will require fewer changes, especially since it weighs 15 tons and gives a gain in both weight and characteristics.

don’t break the BAD, she HURTS
the new LMS is quite enough for the old "hundred parts"
especially since the "calibers" normally fit into the KT-100

new AU - stupid LOBBIO show from resp. of persons

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Fizik M

new AU - stupid LOBBIO show from resp. of persons

The same thing was done at the Kamchatka IRC. A meaningless act in fact

[Fizik M]

Quote: Cyril G ...

A meaningless act in fact

especially against the background of the ancient "Osa-MA", which could easily be replaced with the new "Tor-FM"

the cost difference between the AK-176MA and Tor-FM is approximately three times, and if, taking into account the loco (the Tor of the gun provides) - only twice, with an incomparable increase in the efficiency and combat stability of the MRK

[Cyril G ...]

Exactly ... They even stole the good ....

[alexmach]

and if taking into account loco (Tor gun provides) - only two times, with an incomparable increase in the effectiveness and combat stability of RTOs

Are you talking about Gadfly? But how will he do it if MRK Osa has a gun on his bow and aft?

[Oleg kubanoid]

very controversial ... in appearance you make the statement that the modernization is not successful .. it's stupid ..
yesterday there were pictures of the interior on the sea, from them it can be concluded that the modernization is far from finished .. in fact they check the gas turbine, because this is the heart of the ship .. until they are sure that the gas turbine is working, they will not complete the modernization .. most likely the gas turbine was undergoing repairs in the Russian Federation for Ukraine, right now, for us it’s temporarily lost, accordingly, there may be questions on the quality of work .. therefore they check before completing the modernization

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oleg kubanoid

in appearance you make the statement that the modernization is not successful .. it's stupid ..

I described what I see. Based on what I see and know, I concluded. That is, in your opinion, the rejection of the Package is of course in your good, yes?

[d4rkmesa]

>> What's in the nose in its place? Some new antenna post !!!

Apparently, the modernized "Dagger". How he looks is still unknown. You can probably use old drums as well. The so-called. "M-Tor", instead of a UVP drum.

[Alex777]

So they removed two AK-100s. One clearly changed to UKKS. The second why change to what-new?

According to GOST, it is impossible to replace the old with the old during modernization.
There is no discussion, but you need to know.

Well and most importantly, 533 mm TA are untouchable ?! So what?

So. What do not like TA? Of these, PLUR can be launched.

Why the ship did not receive the package

Price issue. And the timing.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

According to GOST, it is impossible to replace the old with the old during modernization.

Are you back for the old? So nonsense deigned to say. Apply the same logic to Pennants, RBU, AK-630 and more.

Quote: Alex777

What do not like TA? Of these, PLUR can be launched.

To everyone. The package can hit enemy torpedoes, which is important for an escort ship, but there are no 533 mm torpedoes. PLUR can not be launched from the CTA-533. That you do not know simply. What is 533 mm RTPU to look at pr.11540

[Alex777]

PLUR can not be launched from the CTA-533. That you do not know simply.

It is impossible. TA was not very interested, and VIKI summed up:

2 x 533 mm TA ChTA-53-1155 (8 torpedoes 53-65K, SET-65 or PLUR 83RN)

[Alex777]

Quote: Alex777

According to GOST, it is impossible to replace the old with the old during modernization.

Are you back for the old? So nonsense deigned to say. Apply the same logic to Pennants, RBU, AK-630 and more.

GOST with the Order beguiled. The meaning of this does not change.
The topic was discussed at Morskoy:

LtRum >> Yes, there are no nuances - the installation of old ships from decommissioned ships is prohibited by order of the RF Ministry of Defense.

johnkey68> Last Lightning N 926, Khabarovsk construction, all their trash has been collected (albeit after renovation), including the building rejected in the late 80s. And the orders didn't help :(

LtRum >> The order appeared later.

The AK-100 guns are not produced, and those who produced no longer exist.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

The topic was discussed at Morskoy:
LtRum >> Yes, there are no nuances - the installation of old ships from decommissioned ships is prohibited by order of the RF Ministry of Defense.

You mixed everything up again. It happens. I told you that you could safely leave one of the two AK-100s on board. What are you doing here!

LtRum >> The order appeared later.

The order is not a dogma, especially considering that it contradicts common sense and relies purely on the efforts of lobbyists. Gun mounts for your information have a larger resource than ships. And even you are able to look for example a photo of what is on the Russian island. The towers served until the 90s .... Ships were used up in the 50s

[Alex777]

Order is not a dogma

Extremely dense stubborn.
Farewell!

[Cyril G ...]

Well, did you merge right away?
True, the definition of a self-confident ignoramus is more suitable for you. But the fact that you call yourself a stubborn stubborn looks good too.

[Fizik M]

Quote: Alex777

What do not like TA? Of these, PLUR can be launched.

NOT
only SET-65 and 53-65K

Quote: Alex777

According to GOST, it is impossible to replace the old with the old during modernization.

You are not right

Quote: Alex777

Price issue. And the timing.

and here lies
RAT INTrigue
first of all according to the CEO
because the "old" "Polynomial-AT" in veil is BETTER than the "newest" "Package-A"

[Alex777]

You are not right

Right Only not GOST, but the Order of the MO.
The link is a little higher.

and here lies
RAT INTrigue

Do not smack Bullshit - it hurts.
I wrote that the package does not make sense to put.
What got you about Polynom?

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

I wrote that the package does not make sense to put.

So again the stupidity was blamed by the utter "air defense officer". It had to be put ...

[Vadim237]

Well, without the NK Package, an ass to the ship.

[Fizik M]

Quote: Vadim237

Well, without the NK Package, an ass to the ship.

EXACTLY!

[donavi49]

Here are the normal photos from what is visible:
the bow commander of the Dagger is new (and the stern is old, again saving).
2x4 X-35
2x8 UKKS
The A-190 looks silly and not in size (in general, the new look, of course, went negatively visually, as if they were blinded from what they found in the trash, not all in size, not in color, not in architecture).
new frigate
updated external REA

[Cyril G ...]

Yeah nobody changed the drums.

[alexmach]

Yeah nobody changed the drums.

Is there a need?

[Oleg kubanoid]

with a nasal dagger so far nothing is clear at all. I think it's better to wait ..

[Cyril G ...]

I found the drums in the photo. They are holy and untouchable.

[alessio]

The Americans are also not very presentable for their arly berks, but the main thing is combat efficiency and modern equipment! So it’s right that they have been cut off from all sides. Good luck to the ship in a new look !!!

[Bez 310]

I am glad that they did not kill in the repair.
Good luck!

[5-9]

Well, now we also have frigates of 7,5 kilotons ... why does he need Uranus? Was there a place for him, and there are few UKKS cells?

[alexmach]

And there was little space and cells.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Alex777

I spoke about 21631.

You are also inattentive ..... the gunboat is 21630 - have you forgotten already?