Military Review

"Missiles will fly away into the void": the Bundeswehr showed the "fog" protecting the ships

77

The Bundeswehr assures readers of its resource that the latest German warships fleet reliably protected from enemy attacks, using special capabilities for defense.


According to the Ministry of Defense of Germany, the F264 Ludwigshafen corvette of the K-130 project is equipped with the Softkill Multi Ammunition (MASS) system designed for self-defense of the pennant.

Missiles can be deceived by this system and therefore fly away into the void

- says the Bundeswehr.

The MASS installation is said to create dense fog surrounding the ship. It prevents target detection by optical search sensors that equip warheads. The burning of red phosphorus in an artificial curtain attracts rockets with infrared detection means. And the particles of aluminum contained in the “haze” interfere with the operation of active radar systems for warheads.

Ammunition for the MASS launcher consists of 32 rounds "the size of a bottle" - with a diameter of 81 mm. Each of the eight launchers houses a “briquette” of four shots. When a threat occurs, traps are shot that create a protective wall of fog between the ship and the rocket. It is clearly distinguishable even at a distance from the pennant.





Photos used:
https://www.bundeswehr.de/
77 comments
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  1. flicker
    flicker 8 July 2020 15: 31
    0
    Missiles can be deceived by this system and therefore fly away into the void
    And the torpedoes?
    Will the fog deceive them too?
    1. Civil
      Civil 8 July 2020 16: 25
      +3
      The gloomy Teutonic genius ... still cunning German laughing
      1. hrych
        hrych 8 July 2020 18: 25
        -1
        Unfortunately for Kriegsmarin our anti-ship missiles with radar guidance. And even worse, since the time of the Union, we have relied on tactical nuclear weapons. Do not fly into the side, but immediately jump out because of the horizon undermining. The tactical Granite, already half a megaton charge. And the same tactical RCC X-22 right up to the megaton. Of course, it was necessary to somehow bring down the AUG, and a powerful connection covers it. Therefore, it will blow away everything with fog. And also a terrible formula for all stealth - if they don’t see you, then you don’t see a bump.
        1. Cananecat
          Cananecat 8 July 2020 18: 44
          +6
          One of the films about the Second World War remembered something, two partisans are talking ...
          "- Dogs look for mines by the smell of tar ... I suggest pouring cologne on the mining site ...
          - Then the dogs will look for mines by the smell of cologne ... "
        2. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 8 July 2020 18: 59
          0
          I didn’t see the news. Reread.
          1. hrych
            hrych 8 July 2020 20: 18
            +2
            Quote: BlackMokona
            I didn’t see the news. Reread.

            I read everything. So what? What's new? What's the smoke box? Or aluminum powder? For a long time, they were releasing a cloud of cut foil, etc. With optics it is clear, and with radar-seeker, aluminum particles can only ... help. From a distance, the target will be ... larger, the size of a target the size of a cloud of fog. After capturing the target, after the "gorochka" our anti-ship missiles go beyond the horizon and go at an extremely low altitude and jumping out from the horizon are immediately undermined by a powerful charge from 20 to 100 Hiroshima. At least with NATO ships it was planned that way. Hedgehog in the fog in one word wassat
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 8 July 2020 21: 12
              -1
              American teachings on field targets showed in due time. That the impact of nuclear weapons on ships is greatly overrated
              1. Katanikotael
                Katanikotael 8 July 2020 21: 47
                +4
                The fact that nuclear weapons are difficult to drown a handful of ships has long been known to everyone, but for people and electronics on board this is not easier.
              2. hrych
                hrych 8 July 2020 22: 46
                +3
                And take it yourself. Here is a table.
                In the Three Hundred Kiloton explosion, well, like Onyx, in a circle with a diameter of 17 kilometers from the deck, he will blow away all life and destroy superstructures, in a circle with a diameter of 7 kilometers there will be damage to ships incompatible with the life of the ship, similar to the destruction of a building. And with a megaton ... the diameter of the circle is 26 kilometers and everything will blow off the deck, and the ship can’t survive in a diameter of more than 10 kilometers .. Of course, if the most effective and environmentally friendly air explosion. What did the Americans test there? 23 kilotons and not an air blast. I remember that. So, therefore, the RCC charges are from 150 to 1000 kilotons. At first, the most powerful radiation energy, when everything burns and melts, and there is ammunition and fuel, then the shock wave, which sweeps the buildings into separate bricks, well, the ship ... gets a hull deformation incompatible with life. I have the impression that our people do not understand that there is such a thermonuclear weapon. You in particular. If the apocalyptic Poseidon will be one hundred megatons or more, then the tactical Poseidon will be 2 megatons, unfortunately the explosion will not be air, but underwater, but the charge is good.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 8 July 2020 23: 49
                  +2
                  Onyx has a warhead weight of only 300 kg, even a megaton will not fit into it.
                  According to your table, 300 ct, personnel in a bare field will only scatter 4,7 km away.
                  If we take something fortified like a ship, then God forbid, a kilometer. And the air explosion is much weaker, it just has a radius of destruction higher. But the damage is much lower
                  On the Able exercises there was an air explosion at a distance of 158 meters 23 kilotons.
                  The New York Times wrote, prematurely, that "only two ships sank, one capsized, and eighteen were damaged" [

                  According to your table, air personnel at 1 kiloton gives a radius for personnel at 800 meters. As you can see, even a 23 times more powerful explosion at a distance of 4 times less did not give the effects you described.
                  If you take your table tanks are a good choice for assessing damage during an air explosion on ships.
                  In this case, 300 kt will give a range of destruction of ships Only a kilometer. Well, something like at the beginning of the comment and wondered.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 8 July 2020 23: 57
                    -2
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    Onyx warhead weight is only 300 kg, even a megaton will not fit into it

                    Onyx megaton charge why? It is 200-300 kilotons of terrifying power. On average, a 200-ton kiloton charge has a mass of plus or minus 150 kilograms. On average, look with a margin like this. There is a warhead weighing 300 kg, there may be a special charge of 300 kilotons. The X-22, warhead under a ton of weight, respectively, and the charge can be megaton. At the Volcano, the warhead is half-ton penetrating, and a special charge was provided for 350 kilotons. Granite Penetrating warhead 518-750 kg (data differ) or nuclear, up to 500 ct. Onyx, you will not see data with a special combat unit. There, at the Bastion, there was a soil mobile complex and was subject to restrictions agreements. Now all the treaties have ended, perhaps soon they will disclose its nuclear power.
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 9 July 2020 00: 14
                      0
                      Well, with a damage radius of 300 kt, it’s already impossible to hit the map just plus or minus. We need to observe some accuracy already. Yes, and for every NATO ship a couple of loafs are vigorous, because you still need to overcome missile defense with which ships are stuffed to the eyeballs. That may be vigorous loaves for all and not enough.
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 9 July 2020 00: 32
                        +1
                        Onyx is very accurate, selects targets and works better with radio suppression and air defense, at the final stage it makes anti-aircraft maneuvering. Intercepting a supersonic Raman is of course almost impossible and detonation from a distance makes it almost impossible. It is universal, based on a ship, a submarine, an airplane and on a dirt chassis. This is a terrible weapon, and if not hypersonic modern, the NATO people still had to be scared from Onyx to death. The fog does not protect against it.
                  2. hrych
                    hrych 9 July 2020 00: 22
                    +2
                    You do not confuse radius and diameter. The table has a radius, and the diameter is twice as large. Those. the ship should be in a circle with a diameter of 10 km, and with a radius of 5 km. How is math in Ukraine? wassat Do not confuse the tank with the ship, it is very small and pressed to the ground. The ship has a sail, the board meets radiation and a shock wave with a large area of ​​one hundred meters in length and ten meters in height (dead ship). The larger the area, the greater the impact of energy. I compared with an industrial building, where the structure is more reinforced than residential. There is frame construction with powerful channels. See the table, and do not try to simulate and recount do 23 kilotons. Trust in our military engineers. They long ago calculated everything in order to destroy the enemy.
                2. Alex777
                  Alex777 9 July 2020 00: 52
                  +1
                  If the apocalyptic Poseidon will be one hundred megatons or more, then the tactical Poseidon will be 2 megatons, unfortunately the explosion will not be air, but underwater, but the charge is good.

                  I heard about Cobalt-60 isotopes in Poseidon's SBN.
                  Infects the water area of ​​the explosion completely. For 50 years. hi
                  1. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 13 July 2020 21: 01
                    0
                    Quote: Alex777
                    If the apocalyptic Poseidon will be one hundred megatons or more, then the tactical Poseidon will be 2 megatons, unfortunately the explosion will not be air, but underwater, but the charge is good.

                    I heard about Cobalt-60 isotopes in Poseidon's SBN.
                    Infects the water area of ​​the explosion completely. For 50 years. hi


                    Do not smack nonsense ...
                    Cobalt 60 - which half-life?

                    Besides
                    Jade, if it is possible to create a super-powerful nuclear warhead with a cobalt shell, then its detonation infects absolutely the entire water area.
                    Having blown up the Special Warhead in the area of ​​the Norfolk naval base - in 2-3 weeks we get the dead coast of Murmansk, Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk. After 5 weeks, the entire SMP will be dead.

                    The same goes for the Pacific Ocean.

                    Maps of currents look.
                    1. Alex777
                      Alex777 13 July 2020 21: 51
                      0
                      A cobalt bomb is a modification of a nuclear weapon that gives a strong radioactive contamination of the area even with a relatively weak nuclear explosion. It is a radiological weapon.

                      It is a thermonuclear weapon in which the last shell does not contain uranium-238, but cobalt. Natural cobalt is a monoisotopic element; it is 100% cobalt-59. In an explosion, this shell is irradiated with a strong neutron flux. As a result of neutron capture, the stable cobalt-59 nucleus is transformed into the radioactive isotope cobalt-60. The half-life of cobalt-60 is 5,2 years, as a result of beta decay of this nuclide, nickel-60 is formed in an excited state, which then goes into the ground state, emitting one or more gamma rays.

                      The activity of one gram of cobalt-60 is estimated at 41,8 TBq (1130 Ci). To ensure infection of the entire surface of the Earth at the level of one gram per square kilometer, about 510 tons of cobalt-60 are required. In this case, the lethal dose can be gained in less than a year.

                      The idea of ​​a cobalt bomb was described in February 1950 by physicist Leo Sylard, an arsenal of cobalt bombs capable of destroying all of humanity on the planet (the so-called Doomsday Machine, English Doomsday device, DDD). Cobalt was chosen as an element that gives, as a result of neutron activation, a highly active and, at the same time, relatively long-lasting radioactive infection.

                      And more:
                      https://inosmi.ru/military/20180710/242719365.html
                      1. SovAr238A
                        SovAr238A 13 July 2020 22: 20
                        -1
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Cobalt bomb is a modification of a nuclear weapon.

                        And more:
                        https://inosmi.ru/military/20180710/242719365.html


                        No need to post Wikipedia ...
                        Learn to express your thoughts and your point of view yourself ...

                        What can you specifically say against my words - let's point by point ....
                        And then I see a regular and typical sink - an Internet sofa ..
        3. Vicontas
          Vicontas 8 July 2020 21: 37
          +2
          Do not forget that the sea is not always calm - sometimes the wind blows! And he will tear this veil like a Tuzik heating pad!
          1. hrych
            hrych 8 July 2020 23: 09
            -1
            This veil is a hundred years old at lunchtime. For a long time, air defense systems and anti-ship missiles have not oak seeker, but anti-jamming with target selection. With regards to our latest devices, the X-32, the Zircon, and the Dagger, they develop hypersonic speed diving at the target until they enter the zone of destruction with a nuclear charge. Those. do not sneak by the water ... with two swings they really sneak, hiding behind the curvature of the earth, like Granites and Volcanoes, but act according to a different algorithm. They do not make a "gorochka" and, after capturing the target, they descend and rush near the surface on two swings so that the target does not have time to leave the zone of destruction of the warhead. They dive from this "hill" directly to the target because the speed is mad. And understand one thing, the GOS of hypersonic missiles works differently. The heating of the nose cone does not allow it to work like a conventional radar. In fact, they captured the target, went to dive on the target and the seeker is not needed here, the ship has no way of leaving the affected area at full speed. The torpedo-rocket Shkval works in a similar way, where the roar of the engine does not allow homing, it is preempted, and one feature should have been a nuclear charge. It's just that the launch range and speed of the underwater Squall are incommensurate with the range and speed of the Dagger in a different environment. But the algorithm is close.
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 13 July 2020 21: 04
              0
              Quote: hrych
              This veil is a hundred years old at lunchtime. For a long time, air defense systems and anti-ship missiles have not oak seeker, but anti-jamming with target selection. With regards to our latest devices, the X-32, the Zircon, and the Dagger, they develop hypersonic speed diving at the target until they enter the zone of destruction with a nuclear charge. Those. do not sneak by the water ... with two swings they really sneak, hiding behind the curvature of the earth, like Granites and Volcanoes, but act according to a different algorithm. They do not make a "gorochka" and, after capturing the target, they descend and rush near the surface on two swings so that the target does not have time to leave the zone of destruction of the warhead. They dive from this "hill" directly to the target because the speed is mad. And understand one thing, the GOS of hypersonic missiles works differently. The heating of the nose cone does not allow it to work like a conventional radar. In fact, they captured the target, went to dive on the target and the seeker is not needed here, the ship has no way of leaving the affected area at full speed. The torpedo-rocket Shkval works in a similar way, where the roar of the engine does not allow homing, it is preempted, and one feature should have been a nuclear charge. It's just that the launch range and speed of the underwater Squall are incommensurate with the range and speed of the Dagger in a different environment. But the algorithm is close.

              How much dopeless bullshit ...
              ARGSN - always works on only one principle. Is always.
              There are no other principles of operation that can be at a speed of 0.6 M, that at a speed of 1,3 M, that at a speed of 4 M.
              There is no military science and technology that simply contradicts science and technology.
              Alternative specialist, with a really sick fantasy.
              1. hrych
                hrych 14 July 2020 03: 54
                0
                For a helluva lot clever, I repeat. External means of detection, such as ZGRLS, satellites of the Liana system, etc., the enemy's vessel or connection was detected. Then RCC is launched there. From an aircraft, submarine, surface ship or coastal complex. This anti-ship missile or flock, flies to the desired point, rises to a height (the flock has one Granite or Onyx), makes a "hill", captures the target. And for your information, selects the target. And in the pack, he also distributes goals. Then it descends back over the horizon and sneaks at the surface. In the case of 4 swings, for your information, flying near the surface is not possible. 2 swings and no more. With 4 swings or more, the anti-ship missile dives at the target from a height. For the air density is different in height. Also, the anti-aircraft maneuvering algorithm is different. A subsonic anti-ship missile lays zigzags, and a supersonic one makes an arc. For the speed is different and at supersonic zigzags shish will come out. Diving anti-aircraft missiles have a margin of safety in order to withstand hits from anti-aircraft missiles, because when diving at a tremendous speed, anti-aircraft maneuvering is problematic in principle. Therefore, ARGSN does not work according to one principle, this is complete nonsense and a person who does not understand anything can speak like that. For there are several algorithms. Not everyone can work as a pack, but only a few. To select, i.e. not everyone can choose a goal. Some fly into the board, while others hit the square, etc. I have not a fantasy, but superficial knowledge, but you have neither mind nor fantasy wassat
    2. Wowka
      Wowka 9 July 2020 00: 43
      0
      Quote: flicker
      And the torpedoes?
      Will the fog deceive them too?

      Was there anything about torpedoes in the article?
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 9 July 2020 12: 24
        0
        In the article - about the opportunity to survive ...
        And it turns out that it will not work out.
  2. Lopatov
    Lopatov 8 July 2020 15: 36
    +4
    Everything is somehow strange .... With a delay. laughing
    It turns out that the ship version appeared later than the ground version, created to protect armored vehicles. Where "multispectral" aerosol curtains (MUSS) are also used

    Maybe just just now recognized?
    1. svp67
      svp67 8 July 2020 16: 45
      +4
      Quote: Spade
      Everything is somehow strange .... With a delay.
      It turns out that the ship version appeared later than the ground version, created to protect armored vehicles. Where "multispectral" aerosol curtains (MUSS) are also used

      Maybe just just now recognized?

      No, there were similar systems on ships before, they could just add something ... to the "fog", for example, creating a false image of a warship with electronic warfare systems.
  3. Alien From
    Alien From 8 July 2020 15: 51
    -4
    They equip them with beer)))))
  4. Cowbra
    Cowbra 8 July 2020 15: 53
    0
    The long-awaited thought
  5. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 8 July 2020 15: 57
    +9
    They added phosphorus to the foil - a long-known method. But the foil redirects itself to a missile radar. That is, you need to shoot away from the ship.
    In the Falklands, the British used foil clouds a lot. There was a case when the foil launched from the destroyer took away the RCC. The rocket pierced through the cloud and took the next target - military transport. And drowned him.
    1. Cowbra
      Cowbra 8 July 2020 16: 10
      +2
      I suspect that hitting a cloud on the radar, even the racket will not go where it was aiming. Recently, the Iranian anti-ship missiles were shown - the lattice target was hit, and immediately after it, having hit the target, a rocket in two meters - a bullet into the water! And this is not a torpedo, it will not float away.
      It’s obviously easier to shoot towards the rocket than with the same phalanx EXACTLY on the rocket.
      1. Avior
        Avior 8 July 2020 17: 20
        +2
        If the warhead typical of the PKR is semi-armor-piercing, then it will not explode until it passes through a sufficiently strong obstacle
    2. mvg
      mvg 8 July 2020 17: 04
      +4
      The rocket pierced through the cloud and took the next target - military transport. And drowned him

      Something details of the sinking of Atlantis are overgrown with new details. And the British talked about the work of electronic warfare.
      Honestly, I don’t understand if a warhead penetrating a high explosive, what prevents the GOS from breaking the cloud to take the target again? GOS algorithm, another 70 years, if you lose the target, search again. RCC, as at that time flew to the goal, and flies.
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 8 July 2020 17: 38
        +1
        As I understand it. that the GOS will not "lose target", but will aim at the cloud as at the target. And then - gurgle
        1. mvg
          mvg 8 July 2020 17: 44
          0
          hover over the cloud

          These “cans of beer” fly 50-70 meters, the seeker is pointed at the cloud, flies over it (after all, there was no contact), it is guided again (if the flight adjusts in time), calmly into the ship.
          It differs from discarded traps from aircraft in that the aircraft, at this time, makes a missile defense maneuver. Leaves the line, and the GOS missile launcher switches to a trap. Where will the ship go?
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 8 July 2020 17: 53
            0
            Well, I wrote above what surprised me in the Iraqi RCC. She entered the target not "exactly", but from top to bottom, immediately after it - into the water. So the ship won't leave, the missile will dive after the cloud, and 50-70 meters at a speed sufficient to trigger the warhead - the anti-ship missile will not swim for sure winked Ukrainian, the target passed horizontally, but it’s old
          2. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 13 July 2020 21: 08
            0
            Quote: mvg
            hover over the cloud

            These “cans of beer” fly 50-70 meters, the seeker is pointed at the cloud, flies over it (after all, there was no contact), it is guided again (if the flight adjusts in time), calmly into the ship.
            It differs from discarded traps from aircraft in that the aircraft, at this time, makes a missile defense maneuver. Leaves the line, and the GOS missile launcher switches to a trap. Where will the ship go?


            It also changes direction, leaving for the oncoming one. or a catch-up course.
      2. gaudin
        gaudin 8 July 2020 18: 19
        +1
        GOS algorithm, another 70 years, if you lose the target, search again. RCC, as at that time flew to the goal, and flies.
        If the anti-ship missiles shoot at the maximum range, then there is simply no enough fuel to turn around and add. target search.
        1. mvg
          mvg 8 July 2020 19: 27
          +1
          then there is simply no enough fuel to turn around and add. target search.

          Throw you. The trap flies off 50-70 meters, judging by the pictures. At 900 km / h this is a split second. The ship will depart, by several meters, if it releases them in advance, as it detects the anti-ship missiles, i.e. km for 10-15. somewhere 16 m turns out. Is it. that the boat will be saved
          1. gaudin
            gaudin 8 July 2020 21: 32
            0
            Is it. that the boat will be saved

            The death of the destroyer URO "Sheffield"
            The first missile on the frigate ли Plymouth ■ using the radar was found almost a minute before approaching. They managed to deliver passive interference from the ship in the form of a cloud of dipole reflectors, which the missile aimed at.
            1. mvg
              mvg 8 July 2020 23: 19
              +1
              which the rocket was aimed at

              This is the year 1982. 40 years ago. Now RCC is worth $ million. Of these, I don’t know how much, $ 100-200 thousand GOS, I'm afraid that only MANPADS can react to a dipole, figuratively, seriously, they took up filtering interference. The point is to make expensive RCC, take risks when attacking, if it lightly goes to a cloud of cans? Exoset is a small rocket, it’s hard to stick something serious there, with that power base, but now smartphones recognize faces, read fingerprints, and lay routes in a pleasant female voice.
              Already in 7 tons of Granite, 80 years, there was artificial logic.
              PS: The optical seeker must be dazzled with a laser, infrared seeker with a microwave, the receiver's own radar at all frequencies. And the Dutch Goalkeeper. And pray hi
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 8 July 2020 16: 05
    20
    The news is very fresh - eighteen years old. Also distorted.
    Multi Ammunition Softkill System - MASS - a universal shipborne jamming complex - was developed and put into service by Rhemmetall back in 2002.

    The MASS complex is designed to set false distracting and leading targets (LOC and LUTs) that create physical fields that exceed the corresponding signatures of the defending ship, to which the homing system of anti-ship missiles (ASR) reacts, which leads to its suppression or to redirect to a false target (LC) ) on the final section of their flight path. When a complex of a masking curtain is set, a guided missile (UR) is disrupted with a semi-automatic television-command guidance system and a semi-active laser homing head (GOS).
    Currently, ships from more than a dozen countries are equipped with the system.
    A detailed article can be found in the journal Foreign Military Review 2005 No. 8, pp. 51-57.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 8 July 2020 16: 42
      +4
      Quote: Undecim
      A detailed article can be found in the journal Foreign Military Review 2005 No. 8, pp. 51-57.

      So I somehow immediately thought about it 8)))))

      In a clumsy machine translation

      Rheinmetall Defense stated that “MASS has attracted orders from 9 countries, for 130 launchers, to 15 different classes of naval vessels” as of March 31, 2009. As of March 3, 2011, it was expanded to a general order. at least 172 units. About a year later, on April 17, 2012, the total number was 186 launchers for 22 different classes of ships in 11 different countries.
  7. KCA
    KCA 8 July 2020 16: 13
    +2
    Aluminum particles won't burn together with red phosphorus, or even cooler - won't they cause a volumetric explosion? As a child, someone threw out a whole bag of "silver", we played enough with it, it is set on fire by a simple match, so it barely smolders, but if you throw snow or drop some water - the flash is no worse than magnesium
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 8 July 2020 17: 45
      +2
      Quote: KCA
      Aluminum particles will not burn ....?

      When the pyrotechnic composition burns, smoke is formed, which, in fact, contains the very same aluminum particles! There is also an expression ... "metallized" smoke ...
  8. Dikson
    Dikson 8 July 2020 16: 13
    -12 qualifying.
    It's time to put such a system on "Armor" ... The Ministry of Defense has officially finally admitted to the wretchedness of this combat vehicle and its mass destruction in Libya and Syria ...
    1. Fungus
      Fungus 8 July 2020 16: 57
      +8
      Only this "wretched" machine was destroyed through the fault of the exploiters, not the machine. So the car is normal.
      1. chingachguc
        chingachguc 8 July 2020 21: 08
        0
        Shell problems in his rocket, which flies most of its inertia. This is essentially a projectile controlled via an external channel, which can correct its course with minimal overloads. But cheap. Therefore, the Shell is bought by all and sundry. It knocks down NURSs well, but maneuvering the target (especially high-speed) with great difficulty.
    2. businessv
      businessv 8 July 2020 16: 58
      10
      Quote: Dikson
      The Ministry of Defense officially finally admitted the wretchedness of this combat vehicle and its mass destruction in Libya and Syria ...

      For what good is it to write such frank nonsense, and even more so in VO ?! The only confirmation is not destruction, but damage to 2 (two) machines that have already been restored are located here https://rg.ru/2020/03/10/minoborony-v-sirii-povrezhdeny-dva-panciria-a-ne-unichtozheny- vosem.html If the resource does not inspire confidence, then find at least one difference here https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7941753 If this is your work, then you need to be more accurate and thinner! Great cars, very far from wretched counterparts hi
      1. Dikson
        Dikson 8 July 2020 17: 19
        -10 qualifying.
        businessv, This nonsense is written by the Defense Ministry media "Zvezda" .. actually .. Sorry.
        1. businessv
          businessv 8 July 2020 21: 30
          +2
          Quote: Dikson
          This nonsense is written by the media of the Ministry of Defense "Zvezda"

          In this case, a link is attached, colleague! As I did to substantiate my claim. You did not do this for the first time, nor now, so the conclusion: you are doing stuffing! hi
    3. Prisoner
      Prisoner 8 July 2020 20: 46
      +1
      You, dear man, like that old woman at the entrance. Why carry frank nonsense? I hope not specifically lying, but out of ignorance.
  9. Indifferent
    Indifferent 8 July 2020 16: 22
    0
    It's called "take your pills 10 minutes before your headache"! Yes, the Germans have degenerated! Kriegsmarine - where did it go?
    1. Prisoner
      Prisoner 8 July 2020 20: 47
      +1
      Well, nice. Why should we grieve about them? They don’t go in modeled homies.
  10. Genry
    Genry 8 July 2020 16: 56
    +8
    What would be the novelty (news)?
    Russia also shows in parades ..

  11. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 8 July 2020 17: 01
    10
    Phosphorus, aluminum - this is very dangerous, not environmentally friendly, and affects the melting of glaciers in the Arctic. Greta Tunberg will be unhappy.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 8 July 2020 17: 28
      +2
      Quote: 7,62x54
      Greta Tunberg will be unhappy.

      And we will sing to her a romance "in the theme"!
      The morning is misty, the morning is gray,
      The cornfields are sad, covered with snow ...
      Reluctantly you will recall the time past,
      Remember the faces long forgotten,
      Remember the faces long forgotten.

      Remember the rich, passionate speeches
      Looks so greedy, so timidly caught.
      First meeting - last meeting -
      Quiet voices are the sounds of love,
      Silent voice sounds are your favorite.

      Remember the separation with a strange smile,
      You will remember a lot, dear, distant,
      Listening to the rumble of unceasing wheels
      Looking thoughtfully at the wide sky,
      Looking thoughtfully into the sky wide ...
    2. alma
      alma 8 July 2020 18: 09
      14
      Quote: 7,62x54
      Phosphorus, aluminum - it is very dangerous, not environmentally friendly, and affects the melting of glaciers in the Arctic

      Greenpeace would be on their head laughing
    3. dzvero
      dzvero 8 July 2020 18: 52
      +3
      It also affects the herring - then it will not climb under the fur coat ... smile
  12. forpost
    forpost 8 July 2020 17: 35
    0
    Interestingly, this will protect against arrival from above?
    1. Galleon
      Galleon 8 July 2020 18: 52
      0
      Oddly enough - yes, because foreign anti-ship missiles foreign have an extremely low flight altitude on the marching section and make an anti-aircraft slide at a distance of 7-8 km to disrupt the auto-tracking of air defense systems (at least it used to be). BUT when the anti-aircraft slide is done, the GOS no longer works for the detection and selection of targets - the decision has already been made, the target has been chosen.
  13. Eug
    Eug 8 July 2020 18: 37
    +2
    Does it simulate just a set of emissions or is it close to the real spectrum of shipborne emissions? The ship cannot quickly change its position relative to the anti-ship missiles flying into it - this is the starting point in the development of anti-ship missile guidance algorithms. In addition, the change in the position of the spacecraft will be smooth, and that associated with the release of aerosols will be abrupt. If you shoot a dummy cartridge relatively close (50-70 meters from the attacked ship) at the last stage of the anti-ship missile flight - the seeker is 2-3 km away. ignores the appearance of a new target. But the "resolution" of the GOS needs to be greatly increased, which is not cheap.
  14. Galleon
    Galleon 8 July 2020 18: 49
    -5
    With a feeling of undercurrent, I observe that no one began to talk about any domestic counterparts. Do not. The bar is not removed. stop
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 8 July 2020 20: 48
      +2
      With a feeling of undercurrent, I observe that no one began to talk about any domestic counterparts. Do not. The bar is not removed.
      Which neck is not removed? African eared?

      The complex fired interference KT-308.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 8 July 2020 20: 51
        +2

        PK-10 "Bold".
  15. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 8 July 2020 19: 27
    +2
    Missiles have become "smart" ... with elements of artificial intelligence ... They have long been able, when attacking in a volley, to distribute targets among themselves. It is skillfully the previous generation of anti-ship missiles. I suppose the new ones are definitely not "stupider" ... A rocket (with a brain), having captured a target, in the event of its loss, the "GOS" may have different strategies of behavior. For example, just go to the point where she last saw this target. The ship is not an airplane ... it will not "run away" in 10 seconds.
    1. Vestovoi
      Vestovoi 8 July 2020 19: 30
      -6
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Missiles have become "smart" ... with elements of artificial intelligence ... They have long been able, when attacking in a volley, to distribute targets among themselves. It is skillfully the previous generation of anti-ship missiles. I suppose the new ones are definitely not "stupider" ... A rocket (with a brain), having captured a target, in the event of its loss, the "GOS" may have different strategies of behavior. For example, just go to the point where she last saw this target. The ship is not an airplane ... it will not "run away" in 10 seconds.

      And we don't care about their "fog" .. Did I understand Eugene correctly? hi
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 8 July 2020 19: 44
        +2
        Quote: Vestovoi
        And we don't care about their "fog" .. Did I understand Eugene correctly?

        And not only fog. In general, I hardly understand how the ship's air defense will work against even the supersonic Onyx, which emerges from the horizon and flies 20 km in 20 seconds. Well, this is very fast ... You need to KNOW where the attack is coming from and wait for it. And they go in one gulp, and even from different angles. And the larger the target, the "tastier" and the larger the "outfit" of missiles that will be released to destroy it.
        1. Vestovoi
          Vestovoi 8 July 2020 20: 14
          -8
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          Quote: Vestovoi
          And we don't care about their "fog" .. Did I understand Eugene correctly?

          And not only fog. In general, I hardly understand how the ship's air defense will work against even the supersonic Onyx, which emerges from the horizon and flies 20 km in 20 seconds. Well, this is very fast ... You need to KNOW where the attack is coming from and wait for it. And they go in one gulp, and even from different angles. And the larger the target, the "tastier" and the larger the "outfit" of missiles that will be released to destroy it.

          Nice comment Eugene! hi Thank you, you just can’t take us anymore .. We learned from bitter experience soldier There is always something to answer .. And let them choose what they bang
        2. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 13 July 2020 21: 39
          0
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          Quote: Vestovoi
          And we don't care about their "fog" .. Did I understand Eugene correctly?

          And not only fog. In general, I hardly understand how the ship's air defense will work against even the supersonic Onyx, which emerges from the horizon and flies 20 km in 20 seconds. Well, this is very fast ... You need to KNOW where the attack is coming from and wait for it. And they go in one gulp, and even from different angles. And the larger the target, the "tastier" and the larger the "outfit" of missiles that will be released to destroy it.


          Stop flogging nonsense - it hurts ...
          How neigh all the sailors reading your opus ..

          1. Types of Onyx flight paths depending on the launch range, speed and altitude.
          A speed of 2-2,5M is achieved only when Onyx is launched along an aeroballistic trajectory. With a flight altitude of apogee of 40 kilometers. The maximum range is from 250 to 400 kilometers. It will not work longer just knowing the engine, its mass dimensions and type of fuel, knowing the mass size of the rocket and its warhead and GSN.
          Accordingly, reading fairy tales about doubling on Decilin - these are fairy tales - there are no more than 20% in fact.
          That is, in short, i.e. standard ship Onyx more than 500 km when changing to decilin-M - will not work.
          You yourself understand that there can be no talk of any sudden blow at launch at such a range.
          It will be discovered very "long" before the Onyx GOS turns on.
          And they will be able to fall asleep with a sufficient amount of missiles.
          By the way, anti-aircraft maneuvers in the anti-ship missiles on the route are fiction and fairy tales, the idea of ​​which is foolish for fools.
          The only maneuver of anti-ship missiles before the strike, which for some reason was called anti-aircraft.
          And which for some reason was then inflated to "the missile makes anti-aircraft maneuvers"

          Flying at low altitude, i.e. up to 15 meters above sea level, gives a speed of no more than 1,25 M and a range of no higher than 130-140 km.

          That agree not so much.

          And knowing how the rocket takes off at launch reaching a height of 300-500 meters when the accelerator is operating - almost always at that range = detecting the launch of the rocket - and understanding what and where it will fly from - always gives you the opportunity to prepare and has almost 5 minutes to prepare for reflection.
          1. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 14 July 2020 00: 26
            -1
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Stop flogging nonsense - it hurts ...
            How do all the sailors who read your opus laugh

            Where did you get the performance characteristics? "Yakhont" is not "Onyx", but its export version with reduced performance characteristics.
            In the 40-50 km attack area, Onyx has a speed of up to 2 M. Flight altitude is 10-15 m. The "old" range is 500 km, the modernized ones fly at 800 km. (Onyx-M)
            The rocket actively maneuvers in the final phase of the flight, when launched in a salvo it can “communicate” with comrades, redistributing targets.
            In short, no one will shoot at the aircraft carrier alone, and even the "Karakurt" can "organize" a dense salvo.
            Well, if everything is not so, and the Russian fleet has only "cardboard swords" in a scabbard - all that remains is to keep the white flags under the pillow and wait for the AUG to approach closer to get them (otherwise they will not be able to see them!)
          2. hrych
            hrych 14 July 2020 04: 14
            -1
            Quote: SovAr238A
            And knowing how the rocket takes off at launch reaching a height of 300-500 meters when the accelerator is operating - almost always at that range = detecting the launch of the rocket - and understanding what and where it will fly from - always gives you the opportunity to prepare and has almost 5 minutes to prepare for reflection.

            Yes, what we say. Just noticed. Here you are, like a dunno table from which you learn that when you climb to a height of 500 meters, due to the RCC horizon, it will seem no further than 83 kilometers. And the Onyx range, even according to your highs, is a little further ..
            Where do you get such experts from? Have you hidden behind Ukrainian scripted mattresses?
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 14 July 2020 17: 30
              0
              Quote: hrych
              Quote: SovAr238A
              And knowing how the rocket takes off at launch reaching a height of 300-500 meters when the accelerator is operating - almost always at that range = detecting the launch of the rocket - and understanding what and where it will fly from - always gives you the opportunity to prepare and has almost 5 minutes to prepare for reflection.

              Yes, what we say. Just noticed. Here you are, like a dunno table from which you learn that when you climb to a height of 500 meters, due to the RCC horizon, it will seem no further than 83 kilometers. And the Onyx range, even according to your highs, is a little further ..
              Where do you get such experts from? Have you hidden behind Ukrainian scripted mattresses?


              Not very smart people who are so aggressive in their wrongness - you need to treat your head.
              For she is sick.
              So as you would also need to know that the height of the radar at Daring from 30 meters.
              Which gives more than a considerable increase to the range of the radio horizon ...

              You also need to know that the launch mode of the PRK take-off is not simultaneous - reaching a height of 500 meters at launch - the missile passes from 5 km and begins to decrease (smoothly planned) after another 5-10 km. Those. just the maximum launch zone with a low altitude trajectory - will always be available for notching ...

              Teach your head.
              In it, nevertheless, not only slogans and slogans should be, but also knowledge and thoughts.
              And treat her.
              For being so ignorant and sick to such an extreme degree of aggressiveness that you slide into insults - you can suffer very much in ordinary life.
              For all Internet fighters - necessarily lose their sense of proportion and their impunity and then repeat this in living reality - but in life they may not forgive this. They can just stick everything said on the scoreboard ...
  16. chingachguc
    chingachguc 8 July 2020 21: 00
    +1
    nothing new
  17. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 9 July 2020 05: 43
    0
    the main thing is to let the fog in or keep walking in its fog.
  18. Pavel57
    Pavel57 9 July 2020 16: 28
    0
    So the main heads of anti-ship missiles are radar.
  19. lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 9 July 2020 23: 39
    0
    I don’t have any imagination for laughing)))))))))))) who and how rolls his defense industry !!!!
  20. lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 9 July 2020 23: 43
    0
    question to the author: what is a pennant (what kind of rocket is this) ?!
    ps the boy said the boy should answer !!!!