The network discusses the latest version of the BMP "Kurganets-25" with a complex "Bulat" and a 57-mm gun

One of the military equipment that attracts attention, which viewers can see at the Victory Parade, is the Kurganets-25 BMP. A special interest in the "Kurgan-25" showed itself already at the rehearsal of the military parade. This interest is connected, including with weapons, which received the presented version of the combat vehicle.

In particular, attention is focused on the 57-mm cannon (marked in blue). Accordingly, it can be stated that in relation to the final versions of the Kurganets-25, it was decided to abandon the 30-mm automatic guns, which already by virtue of the caliber had more modest capabilities in terms of hitting targets.

In fact, the standard version of the used combat module includes a 7,62 mm machine gun (marked green in the photo).

Additionally, the combat vehicle is armed with two pairs of Kornet anti-tank guided missiles (red marks on the photo), which turns the Kurganets-25 into an effective anti-tank highly mobile and well-protected vehicle.

At the rehearsal of the Victory Day parade, something else was noticed on the latest BMP, which cannot be said about. This is the Bulat launcher with eight guided missiles (highlighted in yellow). It was previously reported that such a cartridge with missiles for promising armored vehicles will be retractable. In other words, when moving an IFV, missiles can be in the internal compartment, and can be brought out in case of need for use in battle. Such missiles are used for the so-called medium-armored purposes.

These weapons, used on the latest BMP, are actively discussed on the network, including the western segment. In particular, it is indicated that a well-thought-out approach to the weaponry of the Kurgan is clearly traced in the sense that it can act as a multifunctional weapon for hitting a wide range of targets and transferring infantry to predetermined points of a military operation.

Photo of the Ministry of Defense without marks:

Kurganets-25 is optionally equipped with the Afganit active defense system.

Recall that the equipment considered in the material - BMP "Kurganets-25" - is undergoing state tests and is preparing to be put into service with the RF Armed Forces.

Comments

[Threaded screw]

Well done. We are waiting in the troops.

[lucul]

Well done. We are waiting in the troops.

I agree. Kurganets 25 is what the doctor ordered. The only remark is whether the 7,62 mm machine gun will not be weak, primarily in range in a clean field, can it make sense to replace it with 12 mm? Yes, a 57mm gun - like a short barrel ....

[Grazdanin]

Quote: lucul

like a short trunk

low ballistic gun, i.e. will shoot on a hinged path.

[lucul]

low ballistic gun, i.e. will shoot on a hinged path.

Ie it can no longer be used as air defense, with shells with remote detonation? Sadness. Gold 50 calibers would be quite that.

[Grazdanin]

We do not have shells with remote detonation. For air defense there are specialized machines. Given modern airborne targets, air defense is practically useless.

[lucul]

Given modern airborne targets, air defense is practically useless.

Are you so sure Look at the attacks of Turkish drones on the Syrian troops ....

[Pereira]

Are these allusions to the shells destroyed?

[lucul]

Are these allusions to the shells destroyed?

I'm talking about Syria, where Turkish drones completely thwarted the Syrian offensive.

[Pereira]

And in Libya the same. So barrel defense is almost useless.

[lucul]

So barrel defense is practically useless

What will you do with drones weighing 10 kg, and their simultaneous attack say 50 units? How many rockets do you need?

[Grazdanin]

Rabinovich enlisted in the Israeli army.
The head of the recruitment office asks the question:
- Imagine that you are in a field. Ahead of you is an Arab. Your actions?
“Grab a gun and kill an Arab.”
- Right. The following situation: you are in the field, in front of you is an Arab, left and right are also in Arabic. Your actions?
“Grab a gun and kill everyone.”
- Right. And here is the situation: you are in the field, there are three Arabs in front of you, there are also three Arabs in the back, again three Arabs on the right and left, and in addition the tank goes directly at you. Your actions?
“Grab a gun and kill all the Arabs.” Then I throw a grenade and detonate the tank.
- Right. And here's another situation: you are in the field, in front of a hundred Arabs, on the right, left, behind - also a hundred, three tanks from behind the hill appeared and dive from the heels of the helicopters. Your actions?
- Can I ask a question?
- It is possible.
“Am I alone in the Israeli army?”

[lucul]

Am I alone in the Israeli army?

If you prepare for a war that will only happen today (in terms of technology), and even more so for yesterday’s war, you will always lose. Work must always be proactive. In fact, there was simply no need for the T-34, in 1937-39 there was simply no one, nothing like it had yet, and the BT-5/7 still coped well. But they decided to work in advance - and they didn’t lose - the tank turned out to be exactly what the doctor ordered and made a revolution in tank building.
In this case, I’m talking about preemptive development, about something that will only appear in 5-10 years, but will certainly appear.

[Alexey G]

A drone weighing 10 kg can not carry any payload, except for the grenade F1. This is a kamikaze drone! If he is a piston like a bairakter, then he still has a low speed! What our people did in Khmeimim is already known! They shot down and planted and shot from guns!

[mvg]

They shot down and planted and shot from guns!

Well, at least they didn’t set it in a corner and did not threaten with a finger ... what a cut

[Alexey G]

Put together with the barmales caught!

[lucul]

A drone weighing 10 kg can not carry any payload, except for the grenade F1. This is a kamikaze drone!

So it is - but the whole thing is count.

What our people did in Khmeimim is already known!

Hmeimim pretty powerful base, but what will the troops do on the march?

[Alexey G]

Vital and how to direct them to those who are on the march? The base doesn’t run anywhere, did they use GPS there? No one knows where the armored group is traveling except its commander! So you need to attack somehow from an ambush, to supply drones with cameras! And wait in some direction!
10kg is also a lack of fuel! It means hanging does not work for a long time and flying far too, much less maneuver!
Well, even if it turns out to be so, then near such a duck you can cut from a Kalash or fill up with a powerful card trunk! Turret machine guns are also good! Well, the tunguska will also warn perhaps!
But the main thing Vitaliy is that the effect of hitting the tank with such a thing will be so-so! If it arrives, then like a mortar attack!
But of course it is necessary to consider! Yes, I agree!

[lucul]

Vital and how to direct them to those who are on the march? The base doesn’t run anywhere, did they use GPS there? No one knows where the armored group is traveling except its commander!

I strongly recommend that you try to control the drone, at least a quadrocopter with a camera. Fortunately, there are such opportunities now. You will immediately discover the widest possible application. Until we saw it live - it is very difficult to imagine.
Believe me, the next wars are dron wars.

[Alexey G]

Yes, it could be so! About the old O. Toffler wrote 10 years ago! But you understand that for every tricky thing they’ll find a tricky little key! And here is the field for action!
This and combat lasers! And the powerful EW! And quick-firing anti-aircraft guns! And smoke disguise and much more!

[lucul]

And here is the field for action!

It’s just possible to use Kurganets-25 in the Derivation-Air Defense mode. Yes, this is not the main mode, but with massive drone attacks - this will be a huge help to our ZSU.

[tech3030]

For this, you probably need a radar, or an optical station? Is there such a mode of operation, am I in doubt?

[Alexey G]

Of course, in the future, a soldier will open a box the size of a matchbox and release fireflies from there that will have artificial intelligence and poisonous stings or mini nuclear charges !!!
But during this time, the means of defense will grow up!

[Glennie]

You are simply not in the subject of drones. This one costs $ 5000 in China. Payload 20 kg. The usual drone for the farmer. There are more on board. The weight of the drone itself is slightly more than 12 kg. on board 32 kg.

Specifications

Size: 2655 * 2200 * 620mm
Folded Size: 1985 * 455 * 620mm
Empty weight: 10,5 kg
Maximum Flight Weight: 31,5 kg
Tank Capacity: 17L
Full Load Speed: 2 - 8m / s (wind speed≤10m / s)
Recommended Flying Height: 1.5 - 2.5m (above crop top)
Empty Flight Duration: 25min
Full Load Flight Duration: 15–20min (± 5%)
Transmitter: 2.4GHz Futaba T8FG
Operation Mode: Manual Mode (GPS Auto-stability), Intelligent AB, Full-autonomous
Recommended Power: 44.4V / 14Ah Li-Po Battery
Spraying Bar Width: 1800mm
Spray Nozzle: 5pcs
Spraying Width: 5.0 - 7.0m
Spraying Efficiency: 5 - 10 acres / 15mins

Instead of capacity, you can hang other modules for the farmer (action movie).

[Grits]

Quote: Glenni

Other modules can be mounted instead of tanks

Why others? Let there be tanks. With chemical warfare agents.

[Alexey G]

And what is the speed of this letadla ???
Do you think he is a threat to the soldier with AK12 ???
I’ll put him from PM from 30 m

[Pereira]

I definitely won’t fire a cannon if there aren’t 2 ammunition trucks and hundreds of interchangeable barrels nearby.

[lucul]

I definitely won’t fire a cannon if there aren’t 2 ammunition trucks and hundreds of interchangeable barrels nearby.

There are decent shells and so - it will be a computer. It remains only to produce shells with remote detonation.

[krillon]

During the Six Day War, the weapons of several Arab states proved to be useless, which the Soviet Union stuffed with modern technology at that time. It may be worth considering application issues. Today, someone abandoned the barrel air defense? Maybe the Americans, we, someone else? Why so peremptory?

[Alexey G]

This attack was not thwarted by drones, but by the active support and participation of the Turkish armed forces on the side of the militants! I think that if the drones did not belong to Turkey, but were purely ISIS, then they would not have disrupted anything dear Vitaliy!
In addition, if Turkey had no drones and used F15 or F16, then the Syrian offensive would also be stopped!
Conclusion: stopping the Syrian offensive is not connected with drones, but with the activity of Turkey!

[lucul]

I think that if the drones did not belong to Turkey, but were purely ISIS, then they would not have ripped off

So that is the difference between industrial products and artisanal fakes. Turkey has clearly demonstrated the effectiveness of drones, in the absence of ZSU in the troops.

[Grazdanin]

Bayraktar flies at an altitude of 7-8 km. Will you see him? What cannon will a shell reach him from? How do you get there?

[lucul]

Bayraktar flies at an altitude of 7-8 km. Will you see him? What cannon will a shell reach him from? How do you get there?

The Turks are developing smaller drones, and are inclined towards inertial kamikaze drones. Against them, it’s just a good 57mm gun - there is a drone weighing 10-15kg in total, and there will be a lot of them, there will not be enough missiles for all at one installation)))

[Grazdanin]

They develop different drones, both larger and smaller. In any case, specialized machines are needed.

[lucul]

In any case, specialized machines are needed.

If the TOR or the Carapace can distribute target designation to nearby BMPs (in the Derivation-Air Defense mode), then this will be very good help, only for this it will still be necessary to develop a universal interface bus for communication between combat units. In terms of importance and significance, it will be a direct analogue of radio communications in battles, on tanks and aircraft of the Second World War.
At modern levels of development of computer technology - this is not a difficult task at all ...

[alexmach]

They develop different drones, both larger and smaller. In any case, specialized machines are needed.

And even whole multicomponent complexes, with a separate observation station and separate heterogeneous means of destruction.

[Alexey G]

Then we will burn them with a laser! And let him go on his drone!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: lucul

Are you so sure Look at the attacks of Turkish drones on the Syrian troops ....

In order to work confidently on UAVs, you need:
- put on the BMP SUAO required for UAV operation (including communications and indicators for obtaining an external control system, because when working alone, it is difficult to detect UAVs even for SPRA);
- Strengthen the drives GN and VN;
- increase BC, because BMPs will have to work not only on ground, but also on air targets.
And how much space will there be left for an airborne assault after that?
For some reason, I immediately remembered the history of the Bradley design from the Pentagon Wars - which leads to excessive universalization.

[Cruorvult]

Google "Derivation-PVO" so that you don't write such nonsense.

[lucul]

Google "Derivation-PVO" so that you don't write such nonsense.

So, with the normal length of the gun and shells with remote detonation - each Kurganets -25 can become a derivation - air defense ....
Especially if, programmatically, they are given the possibility of target designation from, located next to, the same TOP, or Shell. The BMP does not have a radar, and if they connect to their military air defense, they can easily cope even with the attack of a swarm of kamikaze drones.
That's clearer ?

[alexmach]

Listen, but after all, "Derevatsiya" is not an infantry fighting vehicle, after all, it is a separate specialized vehicle. Replacement of "Shilka" if you like.

[Alexey G]

Stalin already made an attempt to create a universal gun! The 76-mm divisional cannon of the 1936 model (F-22, GAU index 52-P-363A) - the Soviet divisional semi-universal cannon of the Second World War period. Created as part of the concept of a universal (anti-aircraft-divisional) gun that did not justify itself, the F-22 had a number of shortcomings, in connection with which it was withdrawn from mass production three years after its start.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Alexey G

Stalin already made an attempt to create a universal gun!

All anti-aircraft guns can work on the ground. What is not universal? For example, "Shilka", On the "Tiger" there was an 88mm gun, rooted from an anti-aircraft gun.

[Alexey G]

So can a chopper work on the ground! The question is how to work? The anti-aircraft guns have a tall silhouette, for example, which did not save the lives of anti-aircraft gunners in WWII!
On the Tiger there was a modified anti-aircraft gun

The gun barrel was equipped dual chamber muzzle brakeIn addition, compared with the anti-aircraft gun recuperator design changed. On the gun was a semi-automatic vertical wedge lock. The lock lever was located on the right side of the breech. Gun 8,8 cm KwK 36 L / 56 complete with mask. To the right and to the left of the breech are mounted roll cylinders and hauler. Ignition of the charge is electric (electric fuse). The electric trigger button is located on the helm of the gun’s vertical guidance mechanism. Gun safety devices are similar to those used on the guns of the T-IV tank (Pz.Kpfw. IV). Ballistic characteristics are identical to Flak 18/36/37 anti-aircraft guns having the same L / 56 barrel length.

For firing, we used unitary cartridges with an 88R cartridge of anti-aircraft guns of 570 cm Flak (index of the cartridge case 8,8St.), In which the shock capsule sleeve was replaced by an electric fuse. Concerning ammunition from anti-aircraft guns could not be directly used in a tank gun, and vice versa.

[Alexey G]

And of course, neither the Tiger nor the T34-85 could no longer fire at aircraft !!!!

[Coward]

At the expense of the t-34 you are mistaken. I saw another photo in which the tanks are on an artificial embankment, but could not find it.

[Coward]

The photo was not attached.

[Alexey G]

Well, there is a photo of shooting from Mosin at German bombers! And sho ??? She Mosinka - anti-aircraft gun or what?

[Alexey G]

Universalism in tools is not always gut; they usually do this out of economy.
Here is an example of the conclusion on our ZIS3, which shot at the infantry and at the same time tanks:

Even in war, physics cannot be fooled and, by and large, many of the drawbacks of the ZiS-3 were caused precisely by the need to give the front a massive and universal weapon. Of course, it would be more convenient to have a separate anti-tank gun - light, with a low silhouette and a projectile with a high initial velocity, and for divisional artillery firing from closed positions, to take something heavier - like, for example, experienced 95-mm or 107 mm divisional guns, work on which were carried out in the 1930s. But it so happened that in difficult years for the country, the severity of the war was taken on its mount precisely by ZiS-3.

https://warspot.ru/16475-glazami-frontovikov-76-mm-divizionnaya-pushka-zis-3-obraztsa-1942-goda
Read the full story here!

[Pavel57]

F-22, like a trophy, was actively used by the Germans.

[Alexey G]

Applied then applied, but not in the anti-aircraft version!
Here is how it was:

And here is how it became:

Find the seven differences?

And the German engineers did this:

- Move the handles of the hover actuators to one side with a sight.
- Reduced the angle of elevation from 75 to 18 degrees (that is, what Grabin shouted about!).
- Removed the mechanism of variable rollback, absolutely not needed now.
- Installed a new shield cover reduced height.
- squandered the chamber for firing a more powerful charge. The Soviet sleeve had a length of 385,3 mm and a diameter of the flange 90 mm, the new German sleeve had a length of 715 mm with a diameter of the flange 100 mm. The amount of propellant charge increased 2,4 times.
- Returned to the barrel muzzle brake.
- Established the release of ammunition. https://topwar.ru/146573-rasskazy-ob-oruzhii-f-22-razvenchanie-blinnogo-mifa.html

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Alexey G

Stalin already made an attempt to create a universal gun!

To replace the main weapon of the divisional air defense of that time - the usual "three-inch" gun on the anti-aircraft firing machine designed by Ivanov. When the decision was made on a universal divisional gun, there was no certainty that the plant named after. Kalinina will master the 76-mm 3-K anti-aircraft gun and that its release will be enough for the ground forces.

Quote: Alexey G

Created in the framework of the not justified concept of a universal (anti-aircraft-divisional) gun, the F-22 had a number of shortcomings, in connection with which it was withdrawn from mass production three years after it began.

The main disadvantage of the F-22 was not versatility. Grabin's design bureau flawed the design of the sleeve extraction mechanism, which, as a result, did not work with "French type" sleeves produced using a simplified technology. Well, the GAU provided the "wartime shots" for testing, as the most likely to be used during the war. In general, Grabin had to completely redo the extraction mechanism at the IVV so that it could even throw out crumpled cartridges.

[Alexey G]

https://topwar.ru/146573-rasskazy-ob-oruzhii-f-22-razvenchanie-blinnogo-mifa.html
Read here at Skomorokhov!
He writes in detail there! And especially that Grabin was against universalization and clutched his head when it was demanded of him!
You can’t make a good cannon both on planes and on tanks and on infantry!
Everything will turn out but not a good tool! Give at least one example where such a gun paid off?

[avdkrd]

Quote: Grazdanin

We do not have shells with remote detonation. For air defense there are specialized machines. Given modern airborne targets, air defense is practically useless.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.topwar.ru/158074-snarjady-s-upravljaemym-podryvom-na-puti-v-vojska.html

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

Ie it can no longer be used as air defense, with shells with remote detonation?

Of course not) What is the ballistics of a grenade launcher? He - only in manpower and unarmored technology.
If you put something like S-60, then these are completely different dimensions

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

That is, it can no longer be used as air defense

it’s not worth making a combine harvester from the machine) As a result, if you also want air defense, it’s more logical and easier to screw a pair of Needle or Willow pipes onto the BM

[lucul]

low ballistic gun, i.e. will shoot on a hinged path.

Will we repeat the BMP-1 error? Then they also put 73mm Thunder, starting from the exact same concept of the need for low ballistics. That's only on the BMP-2 from Thunder, the first thing they got rid of ...

[sen]

low ballistic gun, i.e. will shoot on a hinged path.

This is a 57 mm automatic grenade launcher. AGS-57.
Firing range reaches 6000 meters. The nomenclature of shots includes three - fragmentation, armor-piercing and firing. At the same time, it is possible to cover the enemy from above. Like a mortar or howitzer.

[Klingon]

in my opinion this is a wrong photo and it still costs thirty, probably the author got something wrong. on "Derivation" 57mm looked different and I think for 57mm you still need a muzzle brake

[alexmach]

On "Derivation" the weapon is completely different.

[Boris Chernikov]

because different 57 mm guns)

[Boris Chernikov]

The task of 7,62 is to frighten the infantry, so the PKT is enough for the eyes, 57 mm is short, because it is a gun of low "grenade launcher" ballistics, there are powerful OFS, but weak BOPS, in the region of 50-60 mm of penetration

[mvg]

low "grenade" ballistics

Often saw a 57 mm howitzer? With powerful OFS? Generally seen? Well, "grenade ballistics" is a masterpiece. Evening done

[Grigory_45]

Quote: mvg

low "grenade" ballistics

Often saw a 57 mm howitzer? With powerful OFS?

LShO-57 is essentially a grenade launcher. Or a mortar, if you want. Throws 3,1 kg of shells, in which about 2 kg of explosives. Few? Almost 81 mm mortar in the power of OFS

[Boris Chernikov]

if I’m not mistaken, then there will even be a larger explosive there, and due to the manufacturability of the projectile and lower dead weight, the efficiency is higher precisely with 57 mm than with 82 mm

[Boris Chernikov]

I’ll give you advice, the next time you decide to climb up, check the information, otherwise you have proved that you have brains like a bread

[Grits]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

57 mm is short, because it is a gun of low "grenade launcher" ballistics, there are powerful OFS, but weak BOPS, in the region of 50-60 mm of penetration

Apparently because of this, they additionally installed a system with small ATGMs to combat lightly armored vehicles. Since the normal 57 mm. a cannon, as on Derivation or Barbarisk would have torn this lightly armored vehicle to shreds.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

but will not be rather weak 7,62 mm machine gun

coaxial machine gun - primarily in manpower. To him, of course, 12,7 mm is requested in a pair in a mobile installation, for unarmored and lightly armored targets, light buildings, but BMs are already overloaded with weapons ....

Quote: lucul

Yes 57mm gun - like a short barrel

Do you understand that this system is a low-ballistic weapon, in girlhood - an automatic grenade launcher AGS-57 for the airborne forces? What do you expect from a virtual mortar? It is manpower, but there is also pleasantness - it can throw shells in a canopy.

[Boris Chernikov]

but at the same time, at the time, the developer promised to put middle ballistic bops to shove, which should seem to penetrate up to 60 mm from 2 km .. and it seems like they figured in purchases. In general, my personal opinion is to put a long gun and leave the fight against infantry on the AGS-40-range of up to 2,5 km will allow you to effectively deal with tank dangerous infantry, and for a greater distance you can put several OFS in 57 mm

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

the developer promised medium ballistic bops

What is BOPS medium ballistics ???? This is nonsense. BOPS needs speed, and LSE can give a maximum of 330 m / s. What is BOPS ?! cumulative - I still believe it, but in general a system for defeating manpower and unarmored vehicles

[Boris Chernikov]

needed, then needed, but the shells themselves already figured

[cat Rusich]

Vitaly, My suggestion: To put on AGS equipment with a large BC. AGS will allow you to shoot without accurately hitting the enemy's "manpower" - hitting it with shrapnel. Also, AGS allows you to hit the enemy behind cover.

[YOUR]

We have been waiting for the year, since 2015, they promised deliveries to the troops for military trials and from 2017 serial production, but so far only in parades.

[Bad_gr]

The new module with weapons was installed on the same machines that participated in the previous parade.
Cars go to the troops, where the driver is in front of the left, and in the front door he is on a par with the commander. The top photo is the front car, the rest are to the troops.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a very tall car has turned out.

[Grazdanin]

This is good, one way to mitigate the effects of a mine explosion. Look at the video from Syria where our amers are chasing. BTR 80 is almost 2 times lower than their MRAP.

[K-612-O]

For how the Hussites showed, this is a grenade launcher’s dream, and to the ATGM operator, also

[Grazdanin]

There is no fundamental difference between the losses of equipment from ptur and grenades, with a relatively high and low silhouette, a fraction of a percent. Without infantry, any technique is just a goal. The vast majority of losses of equipment and people in technology comes from mines. This is statistics.

[demiurg]

And can you find out the loss of equipment from mines in the wars of India / Pakistan or the USA / Iraq? Something I have not heard about the brilliant raids of American mines on Iraqi rear. And I don’t remember that a bunch of Chieftains in Dizful beat on mines.

This is in KTO losses from mines and guerrilla raids. For these purposes they use MDIs.

A BMP must fight forehead with an equal opponent. And the lower it is, the faster the caponier delves into it. And a knoll / hole on the battlefield to hide from the ATGM / tank is easier to find.

[Grazdanin]

Read it if you want: https://topwar.ru/89129-o-poteryah-tankov-abrams.html

Considering the two wars in Iraq, it can be noted that the greatest successes and the smallest losses of tanks belonged to the period of full-fledged open hostilities. Fighting with the ground forces of the enemy "in the open field", American tanks show good results and cope with the tasks. Due to the support of aviation, intelligence, etc. Tank results are getting even better. That was the case in February 1991 of the year and in the spring of 2003.
However, in the summer of 2003, the situation changed markedly. Tanks had to learn non-standard "professions": they accompanied the convoys, conducted patrols and solved other tasks that were not characteristic of them. In response, the enemy began to organize ambushes and use improvised explosive devices. As a result, the loss of manpower and equipment in “peacetime” quickly caught up with the fighting, and then exceeded them.

[demiurg]

I read it. During the fighting two demolition on mines.
And only then, in the course of the CTO, bombings on IEDs began, which is absolutely logical. That's right, nefik tanks give work MPC.

[Grazdanin]

Any professional, trained army suffers major losses from mines, anti-aircraft guns and mortar / artillery shelling. And first of all, protection from them is necessary.

[demiurg]

Any professional army must fight an enemy professional army. And this is exactly what the army is being honed with. And chasing the partisans in tanks, this is the idea of ​​niocin.
Likewise, it’s not an ice idea to attack an entrenched enemy on horseback.

The USA understood this, and now it’s not tankers who die there, but PMC officers with equipment and experience in counter-guerrilla work.

[Grazdanin]

Modern warfare is 2 weeks of active hostilities if the armies are comparable and the endless guerrilla / counter-terrorism war. The main tasks are performed by aviation. Ground troops clean up. All the wars of the last 30 years are like that. Capturing air superiority, destroying ground fortifications and equipment, cleansing the territory. The rest of the time is routine. The main objective of the BMP, armored personnel carrier, MPAP safe transportation of people. They must do it perfectly. For RPGs and Ptur, as correctly written here, there is KAZ.

[Aag]

Depends on the nature of the fighting. Roughly: invading, or defending the territory ...

[D16]

For how the Hussites showed, this is a grenade launcher’s dream, and to the ATGM operator, also

That's why "Afghanit" is on Kurganets.

[lucul]

For how the Hussites showed, this is a grenade launcher’s dream, and to the ATGM operator, also

In a guerrilla war, it’s possible, but in a modern war, you will receive flies from above, from drones, and in this case, it does not matter what height your BMP will be ... The silhouette mattered during the trench warfare, and during the war of drones it’s already not that important .
But the generals are always preparing for the past war)))

[Grazdanin]

That's right. All our equipment is from the 60s. When the guns were not so accurate, the RPG-7 was the most effective of anti-tank weapons; not all and not all helicopter aircraft were withdrawn from service.

[Alexey G]

Vital on tanks KAZs can undermine kamikaze on approach, if you send them not only to the horizon but also up!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Alexey G

Vital on tanks KAZs can undermine kamikaze on approach, if you send them not only to the horizon but also up!

There is a problem here - we must not cut our own devices with this beating "up" KAZ - the Ukrainians, with their attempts at Soviet developments, faced exactly this ...

[Albert1988]

Quote: K-612-O

For how the Hussites showed, this is a grenade launcher’s dream, and to the ATGM operator, also

For this, KAZ is on the "Kurgan" ...

[Aag]

Once again: where, and against whom we are fighting ...

[Albert1988]

Quote: AAG

Once again: where, and against whom we are fighting ...

Probably, against an enemy with a large number of anti-tank weapons not of the very first freshness - such as Tou or RPG-7, but for all kinds of spikes with Javs - there is an umbrella, only "soft-kill", unfortunately, but very effective.

[Saxahorse]

Quote: Albert1988

For this, KAZ is on the "Kurgan" ...

Where did you see him there? The word "optional" means that sometime in the future .. maybe it will be put ..

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Saxahorse

For this, KAZ is on the "Kurgan" ...

Where did you see him there?

KAZ stands on Kurganets. See in the photo - marked and signed

[Saxahorse]

I see mortars, but why do they persist in repeating that "Afghanit" is optional? Still not planning on production machines?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Saxahorse

but why are they persistently repeating that "Afghanit" is optional? Still not planning on production machines?

on Kurganets, a stripped-down version of Afghanistan. I would not even call this KAZ. Rather, it is a very modernized Thrush.
So far, yes, no one has removed the KAZ from the car. But removing it is also not a problem - the system can really be considered optional, i.e. to remove the KAZ or put it deep into the "giblets" of the car, you don't need to climb, just correct the software. It's more and more difficult in Armata

[Albert1988]

Quote: Gregory_45

I would not even call this KAZ. Rather, it is a very modernized Thrush.

Everything in a heap is the same as saying - I would not call it utensils, rather it is a pan ...
Please explain why the version of Afghanistan is greatly reduced?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Albert1988

Please explain why the version of Afghanistan is greatly reduced?

in short, then: KAZ on Kurganets is not so integrated into the vehicle’s BIOS as it is on Armata, on the BMP it has only one function - the destruction of attacking grenades and missiles. And not able to work on BOPS. Cheaper version of the complex.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Gregory_45

in short, then: KAZ on Kurganets is not so much integrated into the vehicle’s BIOS as on Armata, on the BMP it has only one function - the destruction of attacking grenades and missiles.

How is this known?

Quote: Gregory_45

And not able to work on BOPS. Cheaper version of the complex.

Why? Because other charges or because it can’t react in time?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Albert1988

Quote: Gregory_45
in short, then: KAZ on Kurganets is not so much integrated into the vehicle’s BIOS as on Armata, on the BMP it has only one function - the destruction of attacking grenades and missiles.

How is this known?

if you do not trust my words - Network to help you)

Quote: Albert1988

Quote: Gregory_45
And not able to work on BOPS. Cheaper version of the complex.

Why? Because other charges or because it can’t react in time?

speed.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Gregory_45

if you do not trust my words - Network to help you)

And why should I trust a certain network? Where is the secret information from?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Albert1988

Where is the secret information from?

the fact is that this information is not secret) It's not about letter frequencies, range, reaction time in milliseconds, etc. General principles for building a system, no more - I met this information on the network

[Albert1988]

The potential capabilities of the system will be secret anyway)))) And what is "published" is always distorted ...

[Boris Chernikov]

it is quite possible

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Grazdanin

Look at the video from Syria where our amers are chasing. BTR 80 is almost 2 times lower than their MRAP.

And what mattresses are authority for you in this survey?
And I am glad that our armored personnel carrier is lower.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

a very tall car turned out

this is a consequence of the use of certain technologies for mine protection. And providing a bit more comfort to the landing party and crew than in the BMP-1/2

[Lesorub]

Quote: Gregory_45

And providing a bit more comfort to the landing party and crew than in the BMP-1/2

Frankly - Much more comfort - than in the BMP 1/2!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Lesorub

Frankly - Much more comfort - than in the BMP 1/2!

Quote: Gregory_45

this is a consequence of the use of certain technologies for mine protection. And providing a bit more comfort to the landing party and crew than in the BMP-1/2

Well, SOMEONE DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU, SUCKING FOR AN OBVIOUS ANSWER OF MINUSES

[Boris Chernikov]

Nata’s technique will be higher, but seriously, given the modern MSA, they don’t give a big difference plus minus 20 cm

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a very tall car has turned out.

[Bad_gr]

Well .....?
Three minuses and no explanation what did not please the picture with a comparison of the dimensions of the BMP-2 and Kurganets-25

[Anton Yu]

Military journalists say that the tank on the basis of Almaty did not solve the problem with the engine. The program of entry into the troops is suspended.

[Grazdanin]

Well ... with him! Against whom is he needed? Kurganians and Boomerangs are needed here and now. BMP 2 and BTR 80 back in the 90s.

[Zaurbek]

Cars like Boomerang are becoming the most numerous in the Western armies. The cart is one, and the modules: Fri, howitzer, BPM, BTR, reconnaissance, PTK ....

[Grazdanin]

This is the principle of modern engineering. Cars are also being built. There are dozens of models on one platform.

[Zaurbek]

The catch is only in a compact diesel engine and KAZ.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zaurbek

Snag only in compact diesel and KAZ

what is wrong with KAZ?

[Zaurbek]

No data ... is it or is it not.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zaurbek

No data ... is it or is it not.

there is. And it is clearly visible in the photo

[Zaurbek]

For example, competitors have a video ....

[Grigory_45]

do you need a video to recognize radar units and mortars for launching an ammunition And what do you want to see on it?

[Zaurbek]

The defeat of a flying shell of a ATGM or Grenade launcher .... as in the video from KAZ Arena

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zaurbek

The defeat of a flying shell of a ATGM or Grenade launcher .... as in the video from KAZ Arena

what is it for you? The military will not accept the system, the documentation for it will not be assigned to the letter O1, if it has not passed the entire complex of tests, including GI as part of the machine

[Alexey G]

Yes, and shoes too! I bought ralphs for the summer for myself, but I look at the sole from them as it stands on my autumn ones!

[Aag]

Well, and again! In some places, a horse is more necessary than a tractor, an ATV ...
Decide on the tasks you need.
Most likely, again for sale ...

[a.hamster55]

Which war journalists? Surnames! Keep in mind that military journalists say only what they were allowed to. Glad to stop at 57mm.

[Bashkirkhan]

BM Age with 57 mm low ballistic gun

[Anton Yu]

Yes, at least a well-known publicist and specialist in military equipment Shirokorad.

[a.hamster55]

Well, if a publicist and also a specialist, yes, yes. Which regiment served such a unique? Can he embroider a cross with a cross?

[Albert1988]

Quote: Anton Yu

Yes, at least a well-known publicist and specialist in military equipment Shirokorad.

And what is the access level of this Shirokorad? What secret information is he admitted to? An ordinary hack who draws conclusions based on "well-known" information, which is 80% of hearsay.

Especially for you - the program for testing machines based on Almaty has not yet been completed and no one has ever officially announced the deadlines for their completion and adoption of the machine for service! Moreover - the first batch of 140 production vehicles is already being produced ...

So far they have put it on the V-shaped diesel and the cars will go with an X-shaped diesel ...

[Anton Yu]

but you are an expert, really sofa Urakl

[a.hamster55]

And yet there is no commander’s turret, how did the expert overlook ...

[Albert1988]

Quote: Anton Yu

but you are an expert, really sofa Urakl

transition to personalities, dear, is the brightest marker of the absence of arguments in a dispute!
I am NOT an expert, and I can give open information that crosses out all the screams of the next "Xperts" from the sofa ...

[Zaurbek]

And on boomerang & kurgan there is also a problem with diesel. And the layout of the front end with the driver depends on it. Either centered or left.

[Grazdanin]

Yeah, there is no domestic compact diesel, foreign can not be delivered.

[Zaurbek]

And the old 30 liters

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zaurbek

And on boomerang & kurgan there is also a problem with diesel. And the layout of the front end with the driver depends on it. Either centered or left.

no ... it's a little different here. the first parade cars were equipped with UTD, therefore the layout was "non-standard". What's with the YaMZ, that with the Chelyabinsk engine, the layout does not suffer - the machine is designed to use both motors

[Zaurbek]

But the driver’s place has changed

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zaurbek

But the driver’s place has changed

only in the version with FTD. There were no corny motors in the required number, but it was necessary to present cars at the parade. This is an ersatz version that will not be. The series will go either with YaMZ (which is more likely) or with Chelyabinsk. They have almost the same MTO, the driver’s position is on the left, the commander and operator are behind him, in combat

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Zaurbek

And the layout of the front end with the driver depends on it. Either in the center or on the left.

From the choice of engine, the driver’s position does not change. Its regular place is front-left. Where he sits in the center - this is a makeshift, in a hurry to the parade, this arrangement does not go to the troops.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Anton Yu

War journalists say

And the grandmothers on the bench at my entrance say that in a week the Earth will fly on the celestial axis!

[Boris Chernikov]

no, there was an old engine on Armata, they promised a new one, Seagull or something there, but they filled up the topic, in fact the tank will go to the troops with the old engine, while they are working on the new one, if the engine weren’t there, then the tank would not even pass through would

[Vrungeli]

It looks not bad and weapons, protection at the level ... But so far not tested in real fighting .. I don’t want to praise something! Russian weapons are valued because they are tested in a combat situation .. But you can stamp anything. And yet I am glad that the rearmament of the Army is under way, albeit not so fast, but still ..
Keep it up MIC! Let's tear it up ..

[Grazdanin]

It’s just a parade. It seems that it’s not even been adopted yet, and there are only rumors about deliveries.

[Vrungeli]

Quote: Grazdanin

It’s just a parade. It seems that it’s not even been adopted yet, and there are only rumors about deliveries.

Yes, everything is clear! I just wanted to get ahead of the "all-propals" who love to mock and vulgarize everything Russian, etc.
A good car and a parade I look forward to with tears in my eyes .. Not everyone sold and destroyed .. There is gunpowder in the flasks ..!

[demiurg]

Judging by the abundance of 57mm anti-aircraft missiles, this is LSE. Right cool, I approve. And what to fight with aviation?

[Zaurbek]

It is. Only silent about the cumulative ammunition to it.

[demiurg]

Why are they? 10 multi-caliber anti-tank missiles.
But the infantry is unusually rich gun. This is in each compartment 82mm mortar. Beauty and only.
True, Lopatov will come and say that there is no variable charge.

[Zaurbek]

Well, they won’t hurt. A rocket of money is worth it. A 57mm is already a decent caliber for the cumulative.

[Boris Chernikov]

so as not to spend dear Cornets on any Mrapam or armored personnel carriers

[Kalmar]

Quote: demiurg

And what to fight with aviation?

"Torah", "Shells" and the like, I guess. "Kurganets" is still an infantry fighting vehicle, not a land cruiser.

[Zaurbek]

BMP against aviation, as it is illusory

[alexmach]

Well, they showed at exhibitions a kind of "Anti-Aircraft Defense"

[Zaurbek]

So this is not a BMP .... a combat vehicle .... without a landing and with the corresponding SLA

[D16]

this is LSE

Only the supply of shells tape, not cassettes.

And what to fight with aviation?

Air Defense Forces. You might think that 2A72 on the BMP-3 is a direct thunderstorm of aviation and TSA .

[Xenofont]

And where do the "fireballs" come from? There seems to be two sleeves and two receivers for 3 shots each, followed by reloading with the gun in a horizontal position.

[D16]

I read in bj bmpd. https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3499099.html#comments
Assumption in the comments. In any case, loading is not cassette, as in LSE.

[Xenofont]

On Courage they disassemble in detail with drawings from patents, etc. In the LSE for any supply from above, but there is hardly any other weaponry there.

[businessv]

Quote: demiurg

And what to fight with aviation?

So in bulk air defense cover! Why also load this equipment?

[Aag]

About the SAM in bulk ... Are you talking about the number of developments? Or about the presence in the troops? Without sorcasm ... It’s just that for all the years of service I once held Arrow-M in my hands for the preparation of conscripts (emergency air defense calculations). Dudaev: Do you think something has changed dramatically? What is the armor of each KP herd?

[businessv]

Quote: AAG

What is the armor of each KP herd?

Not only them, but Derivation, Thor, Tunguska, Wasp - some are designed to cover both stationary and objects on the march. You will not offer to put on the BMP also a locator with all the relying stray?

[Aag]

I don’t know. But I would like to see air defense (ABM) means not only on the working map, as some hypothetical geometric figures. My unit (in the past) performs the main task. They are providing. Like many. But without which I’m guaranteed I’ll fulfill my task only under an incredible set of circumstances ...

[businessv]

Quote: AAG

They are providing. Like many.

For a long time already, armored defense units have entered air defense cover precisely for their intended use.

[Aag]

You don’t read everything, what is responding to? What are the cover of the Strategic Missile Forces? I don’t think that something has changed radically over the past years. To my great concern and chagrin ...

[businessv]

Quote: AAG

You do not read everything, what does it answer?

Sorry, I missed such a serious point as the type of army! I can not answer for sure, unfortunately! Today, instead of Arrows - Needle-s, but you are right. this is strange! Hoping for a frequent change of position is not entirely reliable in my opinion, and the headquarters certainly does not move.

[alexmach]

and derivation

No in the troops at all

Thor

Good, but not many

Tunguska

Few and most likely require modernization.

Wasp

Soon due

But by itself fighting aviation for the BMP is not the main task.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: demiurg

And what to fight with aviation?

specialized machines. An anti-aircraft infantry fighting vehicle is generally depressing ... Although the angle of the gun allows, and even the anti-aircraft sight is there ... It’s possible to shoot down - only by accident. And I don’t remember a single case that an anti-aircraft fire was practiced from a BMP

[tralflot1832]

We have journalists, such journalists. All for the sake of rating. But in fact they don’t let a military representative at a factory at a cannon shot.

[Free wind]

And who painted the top photo? Moreover, this is the same photo.

[alexmach]

And who painted the top photo?

Your name or what?

Moreover, this is the same photo.

Strange, however, even the article says about it ...

[Alien From]

It is necessary to wait in the troops, only then they will say that it’s expensive ....

[Zaurbek]

Damascus is an interesting system ..... maybe this is a derivative of missiles for UAVs? Structurally, they wrote that the mini Cornet.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zaurbek

Structurally, they wrote that the mini Cornet.

yeah, with a laser guidance system?

[Zaurbek]

Exactly .......

[Pessimist22]

Probably the same option will be installed on the T15.

[demiurg]

Not. There is a cannon derived from S-60, and rightly so.

[Esaul]

Well, this is a completely different level of weapons!

[rocket757]

So then, they brought to mind for a long time ... exploitation in the troops will show what they brought him to.

[Incvizitor]

The 57 mm autocannon is certainly good, I hope that such a quantity of weapons will not affect the BK much, but with cornet and good armor it’s generally ideal.

[Ovsigovets]

Quote: lucul

Well done. We are waiting in the troops.

I agree. Kurganets 25 is what the doctor ordered. The only remark is whether the 7,62 mm machine gun will not be weak, primarily in range in a clean field, can it make sense to replace it with 12 mm? Yes, a 57mm gun - like a short barrel ....

Yes, stop already))))) will now be replaced by 12,7 and there will be 57 and 12,7 and you will be charged for a large caliber, such as "not enough". put 105))))) then 12,7 is not enough - put 57)))))

[strelokmira]

Do not stop people from laundering money))

[APASUS]

Until the purchase of at least 50-60 units by our MO is announced, there is nothing to talk about! The designers are certainly well done, but if this sample does not go into series, then this is just expensive advertising

[senima56]

"... it was decided to abandon the 30-mm automatic cannons, which already, by virtue of their caliber, had more modest capabilities in terms of hitting targets .." Finally! Indeed, such an infantry fighting vehicle needs a 57-mm gun and no less!

[Hey]

Low ballistic 57 mm cannon ... Something reminds me of an old rake, BMP-1 with 73 mm Thunder cannon

[Dreamboat]

Quote: lucul

low ballistic gun, i.e. will shoot on a hinged path.

Ie it can no longer be used as air defense, with shells with remote detonation? Sadness. Gold 50 calibers would be quite that.

For this it will be possible to use the Bulat guided missiles. Much more effective than a cannon.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Dreamboat

Ie it can no longer be used as air defense, with shells with remote detonation? Sadness. Gold 50 calibers would be quite that.

For this it will be possible to use Bulat guided missiles

Are you sure that Bulat can work on air targets? Almost nothing is known about the complex. Or do you have reliable information?

[Ryaruav]

My personal opinion is the perspective in terms of automatic artillery - increasing the caliber,

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Saxahorse

I see mortars, but why do they persist in repeating that "Afghanit" is optional? Still not planning on production machines?

on Kurganets, a stripped-down version of Afghanistan. I would not even call this KAZ. Rather, it is a very modernized Thrush.
So far, yes, no one has removed the KAZ from the car. But removing it is also not a problem - the system can really be considered optional, i.e. to remove the KAZ or put it deep into the "giblets" of the car, you don't need to climb, just correct the software. It's more and more difficult in Armata

[7,62x54]

The long-suffering Kurgan is doomed to perform in parades, but apparently will never get into the troops. Since 2000, everything has been humming, changing calibers ....

[Sancho_SP]

Entities again produce unnecessarily. Why do we need four types of bmp?

[vVvAD]

Quote: Grazdanin

We do not have shells with remote detonation.

Really, chtol?
https://russian.rt.com/russia/article/549135-upravlyaemye-snaryady
https://topwar.ru/158074-snarjady-s-upravljaemym-podryvom-na-puti-v-vojska.html

[Herman 4223]

Well, that’s the reason why he’s not yet in the army. The car was completely redone, in 2015 the parade was essentially a different car.

[bairat]

Quote: lucul

low ballistic gun, i.e. will shoot on a hinged path.

Ie it can no longer be used as air defense, with shells with remote detonation? Sadness. Gold 50 calibers would be quite that.

I know the sequel. Ooooh, the high-explosive effect is weak, let's increase the caliber. Gold 76.2 mm. Better than 100. Well then the tank’s ears are 125 mm. Or 152mm? Only the gun from Peony will close all your Wishlist))

[Alexey-74]

Rather, already in the army! And of course I want to see how Kurganets show himself

[Boratsagdiev]

In fact, he will also change the "carcass".
The driver’s position was moved a little forward.

[Boratsagdiev]

Why so much?! ....
The case will be different, the engine has been changed and the driver has shifted forward.
There is information in open sources, too lazy to search? ...

[Alexey Polyutkin]

All of these ground-to-ground missiles are good, I am interested in the question of when, and is it possible to equip ground-based equipment with ground-to-air missiles? For the latest military conflicts clearly show the growing role of drones as a means of destroying armored vehicles .... We must teach armored vehicles to deal with imagines. I believe (especially not professionally) that the main problem in the radar.

[litus]

it was decided to abandon the 30-mm automatic guns, which already by virtue of the caliber had more modest capabilities in terms of hitting targets.
——- here it is the great Russian language ... :-) why simply didn’t they have lesser capabilities?

[nnz226]

Not similar to the presented photo gun on a 57-mm caliber! Maximum standard 30 mm. When the parade was equipped with guns of 57 mm caliber and the length of the guns was longer and more noticeable caliber!