Russian banks are asking to postpone the implementation of domestic software

The transition of Russian banks to domestic software critical information infrastructure may be delayed for a long time. The Association of Banks of Russia sent a letter asking to postpone such a transition to the government of the country.

Russian banks reacted to the new version of the draft presidential decree and government decree, which require the replacement of many types of software and IT equipment of foreign production with domestic counterparts. According to the Association of Banks of Russia (ADB), this transition in a short time "is difficult to accomplish, and in some cases practically impossible."

Reportedly, for a quick transition, banks will have to spend more than 700 billion rubles one-time, which, in turn, can lead to more expensive credit institution services for Russian citizens. In addition, failures in the work of banks themselves due to software replacement are not ruled out.

Thus, ADB is asking the Russian government to postpone the requirement to introduce domestic software instead of foreign software for four years, but, at the same time, advocates the allocation of state support to Russian software and hardware manufacturers.

(...) The Association of Banks of Russia proposes (...) to consider the possibility of (...) postponing the entry into force of project requirements by four years (...) Clarify the scope of projects, extending their provisions exclusively to significant KII objects, related to the first category of significance. Allow the use of proprietary software developed by credit organizations not included in the relevant registry

- the letter says.

Comments

[Soko]

Well, the desire of banks is understandable. Haste is needed when catching fleas. But it’s not worth delaying.
You can also welcome the fact that they support the allocation of state support to Russian software manufacturers.

[kit88]

Quote: Soko

You can also welcome the fact that they support the allocation of state support to Russian software manufacturers.

Of course, welcome.
But who will pay for it?
Banks clearly said that we will pay with you, i.e. ordinary citizens:

... may lead to a rise in the cost of services of credit organizations for Russian citizens ..

I would not say "can lead", but 146% will lead.
Aw, Government! Why does an ordinary citizen ultimately pay for everything?

[military_cat]

It will be like the "introduction of open source software in schools," which was announced back in 2010. We talked, talked, transferred a couple of demonstration computers that no one else touched, forgot it like a bad dream, and slowly continued to use what we were used to. In a couple of schools, where there were enthusiastic admins, they implemented it exclusively on outstanding moral and strong-willed, through the resistance of the environment.

[Lexus]

Bears were traveling
On a bicycle.
And after them the cat
Backwards.
And behind it are mosquitoes
On the balloon.
And behind them are crayfish
On a lame dog.
Wolves on the mare.
Lions in the car.
Bunnies
In the tram.
Toad on a broomstick ...
They go and laugh,
They chew gingerbread. (C) "Cockroach", poem, Korney Chukovsky

Import substitution, and not only, exclusively "on a broomstick", sideways, backwards, limps and constantly needs ... support. Even without really facing the intrigues of the overseas "cockroach".

[military_cat]

Yes, overseas intrigues are already going on. It is all the more surprising that, instead of normal operation, the ox is still kicked.

Gazprom was faced with the forced shutdown of Austrian LMF compressors, said N335 department head Pavel Krylov, Interfax reports.

According to him, they were turned off "remotely", and now these compressors "stand dead weight, do not work until now." “It’s disconnected remotely via satellite, it’s just turned into scrap metal,” Krylov said.

Read more at RBC:
https://www.rbc.ru/business/15/10/2019/5da5f1e19a7947cfb127bdfd

[Boa kaa]

Quote: military_cat

"Stand dead weight, do not work until now." “Remotely disconnected via satellite, just turned into scrap metal”,

That's to prevent this from happening and the entire financial system of the state does not freeze and you need to change the software to domestic. Our programmers win all championships and competitions, and putting their product on computers of the IMF’s proteges is NIZZYAYA !!!!
So who is pushing balls from another team into our goal !?
What can happen to machines where bookmarks are activated through a satellite, Iran’s nuclear centrifuges showed. Although Stuxnet was part of the anti-Iranian operation “Olympic Games” of the American government, and it was brought in via flash drives, the essence is the same ...
Well, who else from the gluttonous fat financial cats is still not clear? Only to the devotees!

[mvg]

where were the admins-enthusiasts

I hope for a prize they were sent to a mental hospital. Forced.

[Soko]

Quote: kit88

Of course, welcome.
But who will pay for it?
Banks clearly said that we will pay with you, i.e. ordinary citizens

Well, there are only two ways out: to stay on foreign software or implement your own, but this requires some kind of investment. In this case, it is proposed to stretch the process in time and reduce the financial burden on everyone.

[Tatyana]

You need to have your own and only your own! If, of course, we want to get away from dependence not just on foreign software, but also on the control by foreign special services (the same US / Pentagon / NATO) of our economy, of our armed forces and the military-industrial complex. No way without it!
But this is only one of the most important components of observing our national security in the upcoming peace and war!

In the PRC, such things have already been given! And we are swaying in the Russian Federation.

In this regard - foreign software - I generally wonder how the Russian Federation in general manages to sell something to foreigners in spite of the United States, if we still just thought we could sell something non-existent abroad, but we already know about it!

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tatiana

You need to have your own and only your own!

And what about the banks? This moment is critical for those areas where state secrets walk. So you need to start with the government, law enforcement agencies, the military-industrial complex: let them switch to our software.

It looks like it is necessary to arrange once again a ostentatious import substitution, only banks should be engaged in the withdrawal of funds from citizens for this banquet; state type is not in business. Well, unless the "right" guys delivering the "right" software will warm their hands.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Kalmar

And what about the banks? This moment is critical for those areas where state secrets walk.

Through banks - banking operations - all your state-of-the-art relationships within the country and abroad are automatically "transparent" and clearly visible to those who need it in the same banks of the Federal Reserve System and the US intelligence services.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tatiana

Through banks - banking operations - all your state-of-the-art relationships within the country and abroad are automatically "transparent" and clearly visible to those who need it in the same banks of the Federal Reserve System and the US intelligence services.

First, intelligence and without this know how to obtain the necessary information. Secondly, the state has its own pocket banks for the defense industry, so let them introduce import substitution there. At the same time, it will then be easier to replicate this experience to commercial organizations.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Kalmar

First, intelligence and without this know how to obtain the necessary information.

Scouts need to be sent and put in place. And with the help of foreign software, information - technical, financial and commercial - can be read from outside the hill and prevent its distribution automatically.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tatiana

Scouts need to be sent and put in place

Judging by how joyfully personal data from various organizations merge into the Internet, everyone has been sent and implemented for a long time.

Quote: Tatiana

And with the help of foreign software, information - technical, financial and commercial - can be read and prevented from spreading from behind a hill automatically

Unless you take into account that all traffic that goes through the banking networks is filtered and checked by the IS engineers. Cramming bookmarks is far from as easy as it might seem.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Tatiana

Through banks - banking operations - all your state-of-the-art relationships within the country and abroad are automatically "transparent" and clearly visible to those who need it in the same banks of the Federal Reserve System and the US intelligence services.

According to data as of January 16.01.2016, 174, the Rothschilds recognized their influence on 193 banks, despite the fact that UN member states are XNUMX.
Namely.

See detail - https://narod-novosti.com/diskussionnyj-klub/?p=rotshild-vyistroil-finansovyie-vojska

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tatiana

According to data as of January 16.01.2016, 174, the Rothschilds recognized their influence on 193 banks, despite the fact that UN member states are XNUMX.

But we understand that software does not play a significant role in this influence? Or is our Central Bank doing its tricks with ruble-dollar exchange rates exclusively under the influence of enemy bookmarks in software?

[Tatyana]

Quote: Kalmar

But we understand that software does not play a significant role in this influence? Or is our Central Bank doing its tricks with ruble-dollar exchange rates exclusively under the influence of enemy bookmarks in software?

And without bookmarks through banking operations, everything is clear to Washington in the USA! Why not understand what is being said ?!
In trade, including financial calculations, its own marketing strategy of the West in relation to the same RF or to China in the interests of the United States and the collective West.
Let's get back to the beginning. I repeat again - for the dull.

Quote: Tatiana

You need to have your own and only your own! If, of course, we want to get away from dependence not just on foreign software, but also on the control by foreign special services (the same US / Pentagon / NATO) of our economy, of our armed forces and the military-industrial complex. No way without it!
But this is only one of the most important components of observing our national security in the upcoming peace and war!

In the PRC, such things have already been given! And we are swaying in the Russian Federation.

In this regard - foreign software - I am generally surprised how this RF in general MARKETING manages to sell something to foreigners in spite of the United States, if we still just thought we could sell something non-existent abroad, but we already know about it!

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tatiana

I am generally surprised how this RF in general MARKETING manages to sell something to foreigners in spite of the United States, if we still just thought we could sell something non-existent abroad, but we already know about it!

I have nothing to say here. Apparently, you are a member of the Western intelligence community and have a good idea of ​​how quickly and through which channels they obtain information about our non-existent products.

And if in essence: I don’t deny that I need my software. As an IT specialist, I’m very upset that Russia is poorly represented in this industry. This is a problem, but it cannot be solved by directive methods alone: ​​it is necessary to create conditions for the growth of domestic IT companies, to ensure the flow of qualified personnel (greetings to Russian education), to increase the investment attractiveness of Russian IT (greetings to our lawmakers and security officials), and much more. Unfortunately, so far we have only learned to prohibit and restrict.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Kalmar

I have nothing to say here. Apparently, you are a member of the Western intelligence community and have a good idea of ​​how quickly and through which channels they obtain information about our non-existent products.

As a specialist in financial, economic and administrative divisions, this is clear to me. For instance. A huge sum was transferred from the country's budget to the enterprise for the development of something little-known and unannounced - and immediately in the West through banks foreign intelligence agencies have a question: what kind of enterprise is it and what has such money been allocated for?
By the way, US sanctions on this principle just work.
The United States first allows foreign enterprises to invest in Russian projects and, at the stage of their already significantly invested costs, imposes sanctions against them - punishing them so that they feel financially sicker. Those. By its sanctions, the United States reduces their costs to the impossibility of justifying them in the future - they simply bankrupt us and our business partners even before the end of the implementation of common business projects. As, for example, the United States is doing it with regard to the construction of the SP-2.

Quote: Kalmar

And if in essence: I don’t deny that I need my software. As an IT specialist, I’m very upset that Russia is poorly represented in this industry. This is a problem, but it cannot be solved by directive methods alone: ​​it is necessary to create conditions for the growth of domestic IT companies, to ensure the flow of qualified personnel (greetings to Russian education), to increase the investment attractiveness of Russian IT (greetings to our lawmakers and security officials), and much more. Unfortunately, so far we have only learned to prohibit and restrict.

Here I agree with you very much! We have inexcusably missed a lot of time in Russia.

[Alex Justice]

They don’t talk much about this, but it is clear that the third industrial revolution, IT, began 20 years ago. If we are late, it will be difficult to catch up with progress.

[mvg]

Imagine, come to the ATM, and he (the ATM) draws a damn thing for you, or they dialed a trolley in the store, and the acquiring does not live, or the loan is stolen, but nothing. And around the system, they run around, sweaty, draping their hands around teephones and putting patches. Believe in the banks admins are not so hot, this is a "warm" place. In our rather big city, their problems, sometimes, I solved. I know many people personally. And so it will be more than one month.
PS: Not to mention commercial payments, transfers, bank clients, financial statements. In such heat there will be many heart attacks

[Loh]

Correctly Tatyana writes. And banks will write whatever number of expenses they want so that they can raise money here. Safety first, and when the roasted rooster pecks, then who will the banks refer to? They want to disconnect us from SWIFT already. All bankers lick something from America, there is nothing to listen to them, otherwise everything will remain so. We need to take an example from China.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Loh

We need to take an example from China.

Yes, all of our 5th scummy financial column in their youth in Oxford and Harvards hung out with daddy's grandmother ... And they were afraid of patriotic education, like the devil of incense. This is not for you Kitais, who in any state (like the Jews, by the way!) Consider themselves citizens of the PRC! (Israel) And where do these cosmopolitans get a "thought about the Motherland" if they pathologically dislike "this country" !?
And you say, they should take an example from the hongfuz!
It’s better to take an example from Nikolai Gastello, or Viktor Talalikhin ...

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Soko

There are only two solutions: stay on foreign software or implement your own, but this requires some investment.

it does not require investments, it requires only tough barrage duties and elements of socialist transformations

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Soko

Well, there are only two ways out: to stay on foreign software or implement your own, but this requires some kind of investment. In this case, it is proposed to stretch the process in time and reduce the financial burden on everyone.

banks offer to stretch implementation over time according to the old principle.
or Emir will die or donkey.
they sabotage the implementation for one reason or another.

[Svetlana]

Sometimes it’s better to pay today than to get rid of sanctions tomorrow.
..
Today we pay banks, which in turn regularly pay to software and hardware manufacturers for license renewals. So let them expel their programmers than foreigners.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Svetlana

So let them expel their prlgerami than foreign.

Surprise, but they do not mind if only the product matches. And this is difficult: a lot of what critical software is simply not being done here.

[Svetlana]

Basically, it probably matches. It does not match only in the details, in the usual little things, the interface is different. And retraining everyone for laziness, here are the banks and delay.
..
As an example, Windows. After the release of the next version, thousands of users all over the world are screaming: fuck nada, the old version is better. But no .. the passage of time and everyone changes.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Svetlana

Basically, it probably matches

I don’t remember an adequate replacement, say, for Oracle DBMS or AIX OS. Or a good domestic web server (conventionally - nginx, but with a bunch of reservations about "domesticity"). Or an application server to replace some JBoss. The list goes on.

Quote: Svetlana

As an example, Windows.

I’m not talking about client software, it’s just not very critical and relatively easy to change.

[barin]

Quote: kit88

I would not say "can lead", but 146% will lead.

Most likely it will rise in price. On the other hand, if you stay on imported software, then suppliers as monopolists can turn up their price tag. Which will also lead to higher prices for services for the population.

[Kalmar]

Quote: barin

if you stay on imported software, then monopoly suppliers can lift their price tag

Those. now there are various foreign suppliers and some Russian ones. They cut off foreign ones - the competition dropped sharply. Added a magical register of domestic software, which will not include everyone either - the Monopolist cocktail is ready. It seems to me that we have even gone through this.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: kit88

Banks clearly said that we will pay with you, i.e. ordinary citizens:

Ordinary citizens again? And what about cans, just skim the foam and cream, and ordinary citizens should work as a "slotted spoon"? Ordinary and non-ordinary people keep most of their money in banks, in accounts, and in case of cataclysms, they will receive crumbs, as after the collapse of the Union. And the bankers will not be left behind, these are their banks! So let them fork out!

[New Year day]

Quote: Soko

advocate the allocation of state support to Russian software manufacturers.

Good thing, I do not argue. The main thing is that it commutes when working with foreign banks and is not worse than the existing one. Who Sberbank put Putin’s children’s 10 thousand automatically wrote off to pay off debts, and this could not be done

[Kalmar]

Quote: Silvestr

Sberbank Putin’s children wrote off 10 thousand automatically as a payment of debts

This is not a matter of software quality, but the adequacy of its configuration and operation.

[Civil]

How to rip off the last cowards from customers is always ready, but how to help Russian IT so quickly hoses ... in a word - banksters (banking gangsters).

[Kalmar]

Quote: Civil

How to rip off the last cowards from customers is always ready, but how to help Russian IT so quickly hoses ... in a word - banksters (banking gangsters).

The bestial grin of capitalism. Banks want to earn profits, rather than finance dubious populist initiatives to create the illusion of import substitution.

You must understand that changing the corporate level software is not a quick way to rearrange the program. This is a very complex and expensive process with a lot of technical and legal risks. Voiced Piramidon the adequacy issue is also acute: Russian IT companies have very little experience in the independent development of key software (OS, DBMS, etc.), and again these are additional risks.

[vadimtt]

With such software, even the problem is not to write, but to debug. Well, bookmarks negligent (or too smart) progers clean out. This is an almost impossible task. As a result, simply existing open source software will serve as the basis and will be issued as its own.

[Kalmar]

Quote: vadimtt

With such software, even the problem is not to write, but to debug.

Debug is part of the write process.

Quote: vadimtt

As a result, simply existing open source software will serve as the basis and will be issued as its own.

This process in itself is not bad: we fork an open project, check for the absence of bookmarks (such mechanisms exist), we take strict control of making changes to it. True, there are legal gaps in terms of compliance with licenses (GPL, MIT, etc.).

[vadimtt]

It comes in, it comes in, but just the amount of work is enormous. I almost hung myself a long time ago while implementing newfangled functional testing. The size of the test code was twice the size of the "program" code, let's call it that. And still, all collisions did not overlap. Moreover, in humans, it seems that obfuscation is genetically inherent. And no attempts by Google with its Golang help 100%.
Further, well, OS, well, DB - there is good open source software, but what about the Swift client? And terminal software? Anyway, the whole back office? I doubt it.
All banking software was written for decades and thoroughly debugged, and now it is offered to bungle for fast
I’m all about the fact that it won’t work out quickly, how much money don’t pour.
Here is the same problem as with domestic "mass" processors. They realized it too late.

[Kalmar]

Quote: vadimtt

Once upon a time, I almost hanged myself while introducing newfangled functional testing.

Testing is generally a complex science, especially if software was written without regard to testers. Therefore, all sorts of TDD and BDD make sense: the developer at least thinks a little about how his crafts will be tested.

Quote: vadimtt

Further, well, OS, well, DB - there is good open source software, but what about the Swift client? And terminal software? Anyway, the whole back office?

Oddly enough, part of the back office systems in banks is a completely domestic product. But with those that are not, of course, trouble, trouble))

Quote: vadimtt

All banking software was written for decades and thoroughly debugged, and now it is offered to bungle for fast

Therefore, the process, most likely, will follow the path of the rest of "import substitution": they will pay the right people for "certification", a label "Made in Russia" will be pasted on foreign software, and that's all, replaced)

Quote: vadimtt

Here is the same problem as with domestic "mass" processors. They realized it too late.

It is never so late. You just need to understand that the process requires a lot of time and resources. Cutting off one’s shoulder for the sake of one’s political ambitions is a bad idea.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Soko

Well, the desire of banks is understandable. Haste is needed when catching fleas. But it’s not worth delaying.
You can also welcome the fact that they support the allocation of state support to Russian software manufacturers.

I don’t know how much modern Russian software is adequate to Western software. But I remember very well the pushing of the Russian text editor "Lexicon", which was forced to study everyone who was engaged in computer science. Ugrebest is something else. Those who remember this will understand me.

[Doctor]

But I remember very well the pushing of the Russian text editor "Lexicon", which was forced to study everyone who was engaged in computer science. Ugrebest is something else. Those who remember this will understand me.

A normal editor for those times, although with Ward, of course, can not be compared.
But after all, the operating system on 286 was DOS + Norton Commander, what kind of Word is it.

[Beby]

Quote: Arzt

But after all, the operating system on 286 was DOS + Norton Commander, what kind of Word is it.

If I remember correctly, then Word 6.0a under Windows 3.11, run over DOS.
However, I remember that in Lexicon 1.3 there was a fairly powerful module for checking the Russian language. And, I'm not sure that modern Word's have achieved the same elaboration of a similar module. I also remember using both editors at once: Lexicon - for checking the language, and Word for formatting text and preparing it for printing on dot matrix printers in graphic mode.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Beby

in Lexicon 1.3 there was a fairly powerful module for checking the Russian language

Because the first versions of Word were not adapted for Russian. But now compare with the lexicon.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Arzt

But after all, the operating system on 286 was DOS + Norton Commander, what kind of Word is it

Well I do not know. I started out with 486, Win 3.1 and Word 6.0, a great editor for the time. But we stubbornly continued to push through "Lexicon", which was not even close to Word in terms of functionality.

[Doctor]

Well I do not know. I started out with 486, Win 3.1 and Word 6.0, a great editor for the time. But we stubbornly continued to push through the "Lexicon",

And I’m from 286, there Winda hadn’t gotten up yet, when 386 with Winda and Word appeared at the chair, at first it all seemed muddy and uncomfortable.

[tolancop]

Piramidon, from my point of view, Lexicon during the time of MS-DOS was quite a worthy program (I still found EdLine!). In any case, suitable for printing documents. For programmers, of course, there were more convenient tools.

[Piramidon]

Quote: tolancop

from my point of view, Lexicon in the days of MS-DOS

But the days of MS-DOS are long gone. I remember that hemorrhoid when I ran programs from under MS-DOS through Norton. The "vents" are in charge now. I, too, am far from being a Western fan and I share your patriotism, but you need to be a little objective, try and soberly compare "lexicon" and "Word".

[poquello]

Quote: Piramidon

I do not know how much modern Russian software is adequate to Western.

IMHO not about that song, "I can see them through and through." What to expect, for example, from Sberbank, which obliged customers to use only the Internet Explorer on its tender platform for state purchases)))).
Translated, this letter means - give money for a cut with our programmers, otherwise we will tear the loss of kickbacks from microsoft from customers. Of course there is software that is difficult to replace if not impossible quickly, but they do not pose this question).

[11 Ivan Ivanov]

for sure! will support Russian manufacturers. then the manufacturers will advocate for providing support to the distributors, they will send SMS: pay or be silent. and banks have nothing to do with it. the topic will play and state support will be requested and they will write in small print

[RMT]

Who wants 700 billion for new software? Developers?

[ZAV69]

So there is also iron.

[ApJlekuHo]

Banks of course, they will be forced to work, to change something there. Plus, they will all come under total control, which is a nightmare for many, not only in Russia. They will not receive any deferral, 700 billion is a "penny", compared to the tax losses that will go to the treasury.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: RMT

Who wants 700 billion for new software? Developers?

Not for software, or rather, not only for it. Iron too ... But the figure was taken from the ceiling, just to scare the legislators and postpone, postpone, postpone ... Do we remember the law on storing citizens' data INSIDE the country? How many yells were there about the "question price"? Nothing, "ate"! And storage of records for 6 months? How they shouted, how they threatened to raise tariffs ... They also swallowed! I think it will be swallowed without choking ... It's about safety. Imagine, you are a card in a store in a device - and you have a cuckoo!
And the banks are all cuckoo. Incredible? Alas ... No one knows WHAT "bookmarks" sleep for the time being in banking software and hardware ...

[ugol2]

Quote: RMT

Who wants 700 billion for new software? Developers?

No matter how it happened, as in that joke:
... Lyam - to me, lyam - to you, well, let’s hire a Chinese man, let him do

[poquello]

Quote: ugol2

Quote: RMT

Who wants 700 billion for new software? Developers?

No matter how it happened, as in that joke:
... Lyam - to me, lyam - to you, well, let’s hire a Chinese man, let him do

Well, in general, they offer it

[sergo1914]

Quote: RMT

Who wants 700 billion for new software? Developers?

Recording in progress. Follow the line. And celebrated twice a day. Who is not checked out is deleted from the queue.

[A. Privalov]

I somehow lagged behind the topic. Tell me, what is the name of the Russian operating system? I read about Elbrus s-2 10 years ago. Is it already being released or is there some other?

[kpd]

Neutrino-Elbrus, ours slowly bought the QNX developer and are now developing an OS based on it.

[rocket757]

Basically, they stick / hang on the Linux kernel. They are not the first and not the last, it seems.
How well it will turn out ... it's just the level of resources spent, i.e. how many babosiks will invest, this and the result will be.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: rocket757

Basically, they stick / hang on the Linux kernel. They are not the first and not the last, it seems.
How well it will turn out ... it's just the level of resources spent, i.e. how many babosiks will invest, this and the result will be.

Quote: kpd

Neutrino-Elbrus, ours slowly bought the QNX developer and are now developing an OS based on it.

Understood thanks. Not an easy job to be ...

[Roman123567]

I thought that there was no time for buildup for a long time, but it’s over there ..
Well, then dazdraputy will come, and begin to talk about our Elbrus processor, which has no analogues in the world ..

[ZAV69]

Quote: Roman123567

which has no analogues in the world ..

Well, he really has no analogues. SUN had an analogue, so it seemed to be bent. Right now, mainly intel-amd and arm options are in use. Of course, Elbrus Intel will not tear, but for many tasks, that's enough.

[rocket757]

The transition of Russian banks to domestic software critical information infrastructure may be delayed for a long time.

Tails should be started chopping EVERYTHING ... for those who proposed it, created \ eh, promote, introduce \ do not introduce !!! otherwise, this cart will not even be where it was, they will generally shove it and forget it !!!
Full game, in general ... therefore, only by wild methods can this be implemented and succeed!

[Kalmar]

Quote: rocket757

Full game, in general ... therefore, only by wild methods can this be implemented and succeed!

By wild methods, it simply breaks, and that’s it. And pay, in the end, will be the customers of these same banks.

[rocket757]

Quote: Kalmar

By wild methods, it simply breaks, and that’s it.

Well, yes, to break, and then build .. this is our forever. But otherwise it will not roll. After all, there was time to prepare, those who did not bother, now squeak.
And guilty, as a rule, innocent, this is nothing new.

[Kalmar]

Quote: rocket757

Well, yes, to break, and then build .. this is our forever.

This works if there is a plan for both phases. And when they thought only of "breaking", hoping that "building" will be formed by itself, it turns out as always.

[rocket757]

Those. if not GOSPLAN, then what kind of serious scheduler is needed? It was, is, always obvious.
To get a microscope, it’s possible to find it ....

[unaha]

In fact, there are no particularly "wild" methods, and software from the registry is gradually being introduced into government agencies. The process is not fast, but it goes on in quite reasonable ways. Regarding the "Russianness" of the software, of course, one can smile, considering that this is often a revised open source software with the addition of Russian cryptography and FSTEC certification, but still ...

[rocket757]

Quote: unaha

In fact, there are no particularly "wild" methods

"Wild method" is not at gunpoint to change straight away, it's just to MAKE, MOVE business off the ground!

[unaha]

Offset, as in some way involved, I can assure you. The process is underway (in terms of software and PAK IB, of course, I can't even imagine when it can come to hardware), but without "voluntarism"))

[rocket757]

Calmly, according to plan, DO ... not god g .. not Bill alone to remove these creams, you have to think, do it, sho would be safe!

[16112014nk]

The Association of Banks of Russia proposes .... to postpone the entry into force of project requirements for four years

Of course they will. These are bankers - they have a delicate soul of aesthetes; they cannot stand anything domestic. But when the people of Russia asked to postpone or not to raise the retirement age - pr-in asked to understand the need for reform.

[Interlocutor]

here when the people of Russia asked to postpone or not to raise the retirement age - pr-in asked to understand the need for reform.

Has it touched you already?

[askort154]

Once they resisted the introduction of a purely Russian map "Mir". Now I feel sorry for the money for the development and transition to their software. But this is the country's security in the financial sphere, and not only. And most importantly, it is easier to track the "left" transactions of banks.
It seems that this is already Mishustin’s work. He thus put things in order in the tax service.

[New Year day]

Quote: askort154

already the work of Mishustin. He thus put things in order

Until September, no time, it’s time to pack a suitcase

[askort154]

Silvestr ....Until September, no time, it’s time to pack a suitcase

And what will happen in September?

[ZAV69]

Quote: askort154

Once resisted the introduction of a purely Russian map "Mir"

When the "MIR" map was just being introduced, advanced citizens everywhere poured crap all over it. My mother-in-law has a Sberovskiy MIR, even more convenient than a visa and master cards.

[askort154]

ZAV69 ... My mother-in-law has a Sberian WORLD, even more convenient than a visa and master cards.

When, in 2015, the US and the EU decided to impose sanctions on Russian banks, depriving them of international and domestic transactions, Putin instructed Gref, the head of Sberbank, to find a way out. In a short time, we launched our map "Mir".
At first, all pensioners were connected to it, then all those who "wanted." The problem was resolved, the United States abandoned the sanctions and "Visa" was left alone.

[purple]

Sberbank uses domestic software

[_Ugene_]

Sberbank uses domestic software

what exactly and what percentage of domestic software of all used? think miserable

[rocket757]

What is the level of this software? If only application programs, this is one thing. When there will be its own basic operating system, this is a completely different calico.

[purple]

Money is considered just applied ... and the OS is just the basis

[poquello]

Quote: purple

Money is considered just applied ... and the OS is just the basis

that is, the OS your application software can pick as you like

[K298rtm]

I heard that already has its own OS - Astra-Linux.

[purple]

banking is all ours, foreign only windows and office

[Kalmar]

Quote: purple

banking is all ours, foreign only windows and office

Are you talking about operator jobs? So this is nonsense. Better take an interest in what's in the server room: there will be not so many domestic ones.

[rocket757]

You are stepping on the sore corn of the former, Soviet ... and the current Chinese "keyboard, mouse, camera ... and so on" NORMAL, he could only see ours in dumps and attics.

[ZAV69]

Quote: purple

Sberbank uses domestic software

And under what axis does it live? At one time there was SCO Unix.
In general, such things must be transferred to the Russian axis and the Russian sub. Here it is necessary for the state to allocate money for this, to naturally control this matter, to send saw cutters to saw the forest.

[Kalmar]

Quote: ZAV69

In general, such things must be transferred to the Russian axis and the Russian sub.

They say that software based on GPL components cannot be considered domestic: https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2020-05-26_v_reestre_otechestvennogo. Accordingly, it is precisely Russian OSes and DBMS that do not exist.

[poquello]

Quote: Kalmar

Quote: ZAV69

In general, such things must be transferred to the Russian axis and the Russian sub.

They say that software based on GPL components cannot be considered domestic: https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2020-05-26_v_reestre_otechestvennogo. Accordingly, it is precisely Russian OSes and DBMS that do not exist.

or they will remove the CCT or their rules or the ex-minister, and you can all at once as the creators of corruption

[ZAV69]

Quote: Kalmar

Accordingly, it is precisely Russian OSes and DBMS that do not exist.

And who does not allow to do? At one time, the EU computer was a domestic OS. Who prevents to write. Of course, I understand that this is time, money and specialists. But once you have to start doing this

[Kalmar]

Quote: ZAV69

And who does not allow to do? At one time, the EU computer was a domestic OS. Who prevents to write. Of course, I understand that this is time, money and specialists. But once you have to start doing this

No one bothers, it's just a titanic work. Let's say the Linux kernel is 27 with something of a million lines of code. And this is only the kernel, not even the whole OS. And you also need a large amount of software (who needs the OS by itself?), You need hardware support (which we don’t do either). All this is a huge investment of resources with very dubious prospects regarding payback. Commercial organizations are not interested in this; the state is not particularly invested in this topic.

Comparison with EU computers is not appropriate here: in those years, the requirements for the operating system were completely different, the volume of functions performed by it was minimal. Glorious times when you could write your OS literally in one person. Now this is already unrealistic.

Of course, you can not do everything from scratch; this way we are moving. There are a number of Linux-based systems: Alt, Astra, Rosa. True, to call them domestic will probably be incorrect: after all, most of the code is open source development, which, if you look at it, is being carried out with the money of large foreign companies.

[ZAV69]

Quote: Kalmar

Of course, you can not do everything from scratch; this way we are moving. There are a number of Linux-based systems: Alt, Astra, Rosa.

This is all wrong. Linux builds, they are like dirt. But Kaspersky released his protected OS with its entire core for installation on critical equipment. There was infa that was put on craftware routers. This is already serious. He is also sawing a protected mobile wasp. Rostelecom bought an Aurora from the Finns. But what did the Finns leave in her ... They promise to put the aurora on tablets for the census, like there was already an experimental operation. MSCT based on the linux kernel released Elbrus OS. Because processor of their development, the core is naturally rewritten very strongly. And this is serious. So things got off the ground.
At work, I often encounter Russian-made telecommunication equipment. The software is there, but it seems to be on top of montavista linux.
Maybe DBMSs are doing it slowly, only in silence. There is nothing to boast about.
I want to believe that something has moved in our state, it’s not for nothing that Vova hinted to the bankers that he should put his own

[Kalmar]

Quote: ZAV69

But Kaspersky released his protected OS with its entire core for installation on critical equipment.

This is certainly a strong undertaking. But not for banks: as I understand it, we are talking about an embedded OS for industrial equipment. Kind of our answer is QNX.

Quote: ZAV69

Rostelecom bought an Aurora from the Finns.

This is not so interesting: in fact, another Linux. Development is underway on Qt, which now has some troubles with licensing. In general, it is not very clear whether it will come to anything.

Quote: ZAV69

MSCT based on the linux kernel released Elbrus OS. Because processor of their development, the core is naturally rewritten very strongly

We rewrote a number of basic mechanisms there, most of the core, I believe, remained without significant changes. How domestic it can be considered is a debatable question, of course.

Quote: ZAV69

Maybe DBMSs are doing it slowly, only in silence.

There is Linter. True, I have not heard that commercial organizations use it.

Quote: ZAV69

I want to believe that something has moved in our state, it’s not for nothing that Vova hinted to the bankers that he should put his own

As I already wrote, it is strange that the banks began to "shift": it would be more logical to start with the government bodies. Ideally, at the same time, not at the expense of the budget: simply prohibit officials from using uncertified devices and software. Let them buy their own phones under "Aurora" and "Elbrus", since the salary allows. Dreams Dreams...

[ZAV69]

Quote: Kalmar

But not for banks: as I understand it, we are talking about an embedded OS for industrial equipment. Kind of our answer is QNX.

Rather Wxworks or montavista linux

Quote: Kalmar

This is not so interesting: in fact, another Linux. Development is underway on Qt, which now has some troubles with licensing. In general, it is not very clear whether it will come to anything.

In the "rostelecom bulletin" it was written that Aurora was tested in the Yaroslavl region. Judging by the site, this is an operating system for corporations and it is strongly integrated with Rostelecom's cloud services. As soon as they finish it to the end, they will most likely be offered for implementation to large Russian state-owned companies such as Russian Railways.

Quote: Kalmar

There is Linter. True, I have not heard that commercial organizations use it.

As I found out yesterday, there is not only a linter, but also PostgresPro grown from PostgreSQL. Skadya throughout the DBMS is quite powerful, almost at the level of Oracle.

Quote: Kalmar

As already written, it is strange that the banks began to "shift"

So there is a reason to start with them.

Quote: Kalmar

it would be more logical to start with government agencies. Ideally, at the same time, not at the expense of the budget: simply prohibit officials from using uncertified devices and software. Let them buy their own phones under "Aurora" and "Elbrus", since the salary allows. Dreams Dreams...

That's exactly what dreams are. Although from a certain level of the position it should become mandatory.
And Elbrus is not a home-use machine, it’s nothing to bureaucrats.

Quote: Kalmar

We rewrote a number of basic mechanisms there, most of the core, I believe, remained without significant changes. How domestic it can be considered is a debatable question, of course.

A minimum must be studied thoroughly. Nevertheless, the processor architecture is not x86 .....

[Kalmar]

Quote: ZAV69

As I found out yesterday, there is not only a linter, but also PostgresPro grown from PostgreSQL. Skadya throughout the DBMS is quite powerful, almost at the level of Oracle.

Yes there is, but with her the same twofold situation. On the one hand, our developers have made a number of very interesting changes. On the other - it is still a tuned open source software, developed for the most part not with us. How comparable is it to Oracle DBMS is a separate issue in general, everything is complicated there.

Quote: ZAV69

So there is a reason to start with them.

As already written somewhere above, the reason seems simple to me: the state itself does not want to knock money out of citizens for these exercises (and so with the reputation it’s not very good lately), therefore, it transfers this honorable duty to banks: nobody cares for them anyway loves.

[Terenin]

but, at the same time, stands for the allocation of state support to Russian software and hardware manufacturers.

financially spun, as "under the pitchforks", so to transfer the implementation or else to pump money into you under supposedly

use of proprietary software

?

[Million]

Yes, what software is there!
You put a hard drive on a terabyte in the computer, and domestic software will see only 300 Gigabytes. The rest will go to rollbacks to this software itself))))

[Tagan]

Reading the article, you might think that all software is imported. If you focus on banking software, such as "operational banking day", subsystems for operations with deposits, etc., systems of interaction with settlement centers, all kinds of reporting programs, then it is in most cases domestic. And their implementation and maintenance always required investments.
Rather, we are talking about operating systems, DBMS, office software such as MS-Office.

[_Ugene_]

if most of the banking software was domestic, bankers would not say

that this transition in a short time is "difficult to implement, and in some cases practically impracticable"

[captain]

The guys are waiting for the change of president and hope to leave everything as it is.

[Tagan]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: Soko

Well, the desire of banks is understandable. Haste is needed when catching fleas. But it’s not worth delaying.
You can also welcome the fact that they support the allocation of state support to Russian software manufacturers.

I don’t know how much modern Russian software is adequate to Western software. But I remember very well the pushing of the Russian text editor "Lexicon", which was forced to study everyone who was engaged in computer science. Ugrebest is something else. Those who remember this will understand me.

What does "adequately Western" mean? Regarding banking specifics, we have different reporting systems and interaction systems. Accordingly, the software is written taking into account the existing norms and laws. And in this vein, it would be worth talking about the adequacy of Western software, tk. in this case, localization is necessary.

[Unemployed]

Too shy to ask - what is domestic software? What language is written in? Really on YaMB?

[Tagan]

Quote: Silvestr

Quote: Soko

advocate the allocation of state support to Russian software manufacturers.

Good thing, I do not argue. The main thing is that it commutes when working with foreign banks and is not worse than the existing one. Who Sberbank put Putin’s children’s 10 thousand automatically wrote off to pay off debts, and this could not be done

This has long been working since the time of King Peas. There are exchange protocols for this. The difference in software is secondary.

[vadimtt]

Well, try what kind of complex and critical software to transfer from Oracle to MS SQL for example. Both that and that SQL, but there are nuances

[Jünger]

Quote: vadimtt

Well, try what difficult and critical software to transfer from Oracle to MS SQL

And convert an immeasurable amount of existing databases with non-measurable terabytes of data to new DBMSs, and nonexistent.
It's easier to die.

[ZAV69]

I tried it. Hard, long, but possible. There are completely different approaches to writing stored procedures. But all the same, it's really possible to transfer everything.

[Tagan]

Quote: Unemployed

Too shy to ask - what is domestic software? What language is written in? Really on YaMB?

And what does programming languages ​​have to do with this?

[Jünger]

This is what they are going to replace the various DBMS - MSSQL or Oracle, in particular? Easier space shuttle to do.
We have no analogues. If you push some kind of domestic DBMS imperfection, then who will rewrite millions of programs for it - after all, crowds of developers in the new DBMS are not rummaging?
All this will become a bone in the throat of ordinary people - users of bank cards. Achtung nationwide will begin.
In general, the idea is nonsense in a cube.
First, for training, let's send the astronauts to Mars.

[ZAV69]

Quote: Junger

This is what they are going to replace the various DBMS - MSSQL or Oracle, in particular? Easier space shuttle to do.
We have no analogues. If you push some kind of domestic DBMS imperfection, then who will rewrite millions of programs for it - after all, crowds of developers in the new DBMS are not rummaging?

Well, let's say programs are not millions, but the DBMS does not exist in nature. If you just buy something in the west from bending projects and completely rework on your platform? Yes, they just won’t sell it .... Or take the same firebird and make your own DBMS on its basis. That's just until the level of ORACLE 10 years will go.

[Doctor]

You need to start with iron, specifically with the development of YOUR processor, and not Taiwanese Elbrus.
Plus everything else is electronic, from capacitors to displays.

In parallel, developing education, applied, and not like at Moscow State University for 3 years, has been tinkering with higher mathematics, as a result, dudes are not able to write something on BASIC, they come to companies and start learning from self-taught students.

[Vadim237]

Elbrus 8C and its continuation, Elbrus 16 as well as Baikal M - are produced in factories belonging to Russia.

[Doctor]

Elbrus 8C and its continuation, Elbrus 16 as well as Baikal M - are produced in factories belonging to Russia.

From 1.40 minutes

[Beby]

Quote: Vadim237

... produced in factories owned by Russia.

And can you give me more details, where are these plants at 28 nm (Elbrus 8C / Baikal M) and 16 nm (Elbrus 16C) owned by the Russian Federation?

[Tagan]

Quote: _Ugene_

Sberbank uses domestic software

what exactly and what percentage of domestic software of all used? think miserable

If the question is directly about banking software, then probably not less than 90 percent.

[Tagan]

Quote: Junger

This is what they are going to replace the various DBMS - MSSQL or Oracle, in particular? Easier space shuttle to do.
We have no analogues. If you push some kind of domestic DBMS imperfection, then who will rewrite millions of programs for it - after all, crowds of developers in the new DBMS are not rummaging?
All this will become a bone in the throat of ordinary people - users of bank cards. Achtung nationwide will begin.
In general, the idea is nonsense in a cube.
First, for training, let's send the astronauts to Mars.

That's right. With such a venture and 700 lard does not fit in any way.

[Jünger]

Quote: Tagan

That's right. With such a venture and 700 lard does not fit in any way.

I think that on such a backswing you need several trillion pounds and a time of about 20 years. Well, and attract half of the Indian programmers to work.

[doubovitski]

Quote: kit88

Quote: Soko

You can also welcome the fact that they support the allocation of state support to Russian software manufacturers.

Of course, welcome.
But who will pay for it?
Banks clearly said that we will pay with you, i.e. ordinary citizens:

... may lead to a rise in the cost of services of credit organizations for Russian citizens ..

I would not say "can lead", but 146% will lead.
Aw, Government! Why does an ordinary citizen ultimately pay for everything?

Is it difficult to understand what the final buyer pays FOR EVERYTHING, that is, we are with you. Even if someone specific does not have, well, not a penny of deposit in any bank. But we pay for the tricks of our friends. Brothers. Partners. Does this offend you? One-time expenses, and more or less calm sailing in the waters outlined by Russian legal and other borders. Or do you prefer the connection with criminals from finance who write daily rules in their own interests, without taking into account not only Russia, but even their own allies? This process is endless. And not predictable.

[doubovitski]

Quote: Arzt

You need to start with iron, specifically with the development of YOUR processor, and not Taiwanese Elbrus.
Plus everything else is electronic, from capacitors to displays.

In parallel, developing education, applied, and not like at Moscow State University for 3 years, has been tinkering with higher mathematics, as a result, dudes are not able to write something on BASIC, they come to companies and start learning from self-taught students.

Then start by inventing a wheel, making fire, building your own rules in algebra, etc. Writing programs in BASIC is now without fail, mandatory? But do not you contradict yourself in your two lines, your processor, but the ability to write in bourgeois BASIC? Is your processor with a shortcut of RAM in the head unable to evaluate this?

[tolancop]

Everything is as usual .... Insistent recommendations regarding domestic software and hardware were stubbornly ignored. And now: "Chief! Let's delay, let's go broke !!!! ...".
From my point of view, there are no delays !!! There was time, but instead of import substitution, bankers were engaged in sabotage. Software, of course, costs a lot of money. Maybe it made sense for the bankers to chip in, join together and finance the creation of the software and hardware they needed? In order to write a letter with a teardrop to the government, they united .... From my point of view, the use of imported software and hard after the appointed time should lead to the deprivation of the license.

[bk0010]

Quote: tolancop

There was time, but instead of import substitution, bankers were sabotaging

Are you confusing anything? These are private shops.

[mvg]

And they’re rightly afraid .. It will be worse than the crown .. at times. But someone is lobbying this venture well

[Tagan]

Quote: Junger

Quote: Tagan

That's right. With such a venture and 700 lard does not fit in any way.

I think that on such a backswing you need several trillion pounds and a time of about 20 years. Well, and attract half of the Indian programmers to work.

By the way, the problem voiced in the article concerns not only domestic banks but also manufacturing companies. I spin ... everyone.

[askort154]

The Association of Banks of Russia sent a letter asking to postpone such a transition to the government of the country.

We are "breaking spears" here, and the realities are not reflected in satya, such are.
At the meeting, the Minister of Communications reported to the Prime Minister that the Ministry of Communications was ready to transfer all banks to domestic software, according to an earlier task received for 2020. Mishustin "urged" bankers to switch to this software. The Association of Banks "howled", asking for a delay of at least 4 months. That's all !

[pepel]

How many deadlines you can’t postpone, banks will find more and more reasons for the postponement of the deadlines. Do not allow any transfers, but require an early transition. And the cost of services will always be blackmailed, no matter how much you indulge their requests.

[Jünger]

Quote: pepel

and demand a speedy transition

Nothing to move on to. So, neither a speedy nor slowest transition will come out, as you do not demand.

[Tagan]

Quote: vadimtt

Well, try what kind of complex and critical software to transfer from Oracle to MS SQL for example. Both that and that SQL, but there are nuances

And like heaven and earth - PL / SQL and T-SQL. Well, except if at the ANSI SQL level poking around)))

[vadimtt]

Quote: Arzt

OWN processor, not Taiwanese Elbrus.

Elbrus is mine, here is Taiwanese silicon

Quote: Arzt

and not like at Moscow State University ... as a result, dudes are not able to write something on BASIC

Hmm, my daughter is studying at Moscow State University and writes normally in BASIC, although she doesn’t really need him, at the chemistry department
Well, she still knows Python (it's dad, bastard, forced to study ), what else is needed for scientific activity?

[Mishka78]

I do not understand what the article is about.
I’ll inform you right away - I don’t understand anything in programming languages, DBMS and other software infernal for me. In the late 80s and early 90s, a basic learned a bit, but he didn’t go far :)
I speak from the point of view of a bank employee - a clerk of the middle hand.

All the ABSs used by banks are completely domestic.
The main banking systems are Diasoft, CFT, Inversion 21 Century, RS-Bank.
Our banking accounting and reporting is very different from any overseas, so their development will simply not suit us.
Unix servers usually. The operating system of the user in banks everywhere Windows. To go from it to something, in my opinion, will not cause problems, the only question is whether there is a domestic OS? Office programs are similar.
If we are talking about what ABS is being developed on, then to my knowledge this is Oracle and MSSQL.
But then it is necessary to pull the manufacturers of ABS, not banks ...
It’s not very clear to me in terms of software. Rather, it is completely incomprehensible.
For iron, everything is clear in principle. Again, the question is in its availability.
And a rollback in iron during the transition to the domestic one several generations ago will not lead to anything good.

[tolancop]

Quote: bk0010

Quote: tolancop

There was time, but instead of import substitution, bankers were sabotaging

Are you confusing anything? These are private shops.

I do not confuse. Private shop or not, and the regulatory documents of the Russian Federation should be executed by everyone.

[Tagan]

Quote: _Ugene_

if most of the banking software was domestic, bankers would not say

that this transition in a short time is "difficult to implement, and in some cases practically impracticable"

The question is not specifically in banking software.

[tolancop]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: tolancop

from my point of view, Lexicon in the days of MS-DOS

But the days of MS-DOS are long gone. I remember that hemorrhoid when I ran programs from under MS-DOS through Norton. The "vents" are in charge now. I, too, am far from being a Western fan and I share your patriotism, but you need to be a little objective, try and soberly compare "lexicon" and "Word".

Something I did not hear that from under Windows Lexicon used. His environment is MS-DOS. For its time, the product is decent.

[Tagan]

Quote: Mishka78

I do not understand what the article is about.
I’ll inform you right away - I don’t understand anything in programming languages, DBMS and other software infernal for me. In the late 80s and early 90s, a basic learned a bit, but he didn’t go far :)
I speak from the point of view of a bank employee - a clerk of the middle hand.

All the ABSs used by banks are completely domestic.
The main banking systems are Diasoft, CFT, Inversion 21 Century, RS-Bank.
Our banking accounting and reporting is very different from any overseas, so their development will simply not suit us.
Unix servers usually. The operating system of the user in banks everywhere Windows. To go from it to something, in my opinion, will not cause problems, the only question is whether there is a domestic OS? Office programs are similar.
If we are talking about what ABS is being developed on, then to my knowledge this is Oracle and MSSQL.
But then it is necessary to pull the manufacturers of ABS, not banks ...
It’s not very clear to me in terms of software. Rather, it is completely incomprehensible.
For iron, everything is clear in principle. Again, the question is in its availability.
And a rollback in iron during the transition to the domestic one several generations ago will not lead to anything good.

Yes, the ABS itself is mostly ours. But, in particular, that same Oracle Pindoco product. But not only data tables are spinning on Oracle, but also the logic written, again, by our programmers, enclosed in stored procedures (in simple terms, server-side programs). Those. it’s not so easy to drag this whole farm to another DBMS. Rewrite again. But as far as I know, we do not have similar DBMSs.

[Duxan]

Quote: Tagan

Those. it’s not so easy to drag this whole farm to another DBMS. Rewrite again. But as far as I know, we do not have similar DBMSs.

And it will be necessary, because the country's security is in jeopardy ... Our programmers are quite recent in the world and very savvy .. They will manage if all this is well organized and paid. Otherwise, wait. That all the accumulated information bases will simply fall irretrievably .. And so the leak goes on constantly, despite the multi-shell data protection systems ..

[Ros 56]

It is the bankers who will tell comrade Stalin and Beria. We will admire the reaction with great pleasure

[Esaul]

And can you first look at this domestic software - DBMS, OS, application server, etc., ready for industrial operation? Something in nature I have not seen.

[Duxan]

Quote: Esaul

And can you first look at this domestic software - DBMS, OS, application server, etc., ready for industrial operation? Something in nature I have not seen.

Yes, everything is in Russia, just the western lobby is too strong for us .. These are what kind of grandmothers we will take away if we start introducing our own .. That's the problem!

[ZAV69]

See https://postgrespro.ru/.

[Tagan]

Quote: ZAV69

I tried it. Hard, long, but possible. There are completely different approaches to writing stored procedures. But all the same, it's really possible to transfer everything.

And when the work was done for at least 10 years, where there are more than a dozen developers, and people come and go? It’s sometimes difficult to comprehend something over time)))

[ZAV69]

Quote: Tagan

And when the work was done for at least 10 years, where there are more than a dozen developers, and people come and go? It’s sometimes difficult to comprehend something over time)))

If you want to live, you will not be so heated. (c) Features of national hunting.
When baking an ass thinks faster (c) Swords over the stars.
But seriously, when it’s finished, you will find money for salaries for additional developers and transfer the base. Vaughn Rosreestr once started his base on interbase, now he has it on Oracle. And this despite the fact that the first versionioner, and the second blocker. So you can come out?

[23424636]

The banking layer has long lost the domestic basis of its existence. Buying cheap loans in the West and issuing similar 10 times more expensive for their money, these lovers of easy money long ago became the bearers of the Western idea of ​​the predominance of the dollar over the state. And take any of their boss (mostly Jews) they will not want to change their income to any state SWIFT software or equivalent. There must be firmness and sanctions. May God give this to our prime minister.

[ZAV69]

Quote: 23424636

or an analogue of SWIFT.

20 years ago everything was and worked.

[iouris]

Our American banks.

[Nitarius]

well, the poorest pancake hurt .. back in 2012 and 2014 it was possible to move ... when they sang with Ukraine ... and they sat and waited for what would happen! He presses on the banks to move .. and they all whine a pancake!

[Tagan]

Quote: ZAV69

Quote: Tagan

And when the work was done for at least 10 years, where there are more than a dozen developers, and people come and go? It’s sometimes difficult to comprehend something over time)))

If you want to live, you will not be so heated. (c) Features of national hunting.
When baking an ass thinks faster (c) Swords over the stars.
But seriously, when it’s finished, you will find money for salaries for additional developers and transfer the base. Vaughn Rosreestr once started his base on interbase, now he has it on Oracle. And this despite the fact that the first versionioner, and the second blocker. So you can come out?

This is where it will be much more difficult to jump off Oracle.;) By the way, both Interbase and Oracle are bourgeois. What should domestic switch from Oracle to? If there is nothing like this, then a single company will not be able to solve the problem on its own. So development, a kind of national project, is needed. But in this case, a stable product will not appear soon.

[ZAV69]

Quote: Tagan

What should domestic switch from Oracle to? If there is nothing like this, then a single company will not be able to solve the problem on its own. So development, a kind of national project, is needed. But in this case, a stable product will not appear soon.

The funniest thing is what to switch to Oracle. This is the Postgres Pro DBMS. Created on the basis of free PostgreSQL. Developed by a Russian company. Here is the link https://postgrespro.ru/products/postgrespro
The programming language is similar to Oracle PL SQL. So it is quite possible to migrate to it from Oracle.
Of course, Oracle has a reputation for reinforced concrete, not everyone wants to migrate. But if life forces, then there is much to go

[Jünger]

Quote: ZAV69

The funniest thing is what to switch to Oracle. This is Postgres Pro DBMS

Did not work with Postgres (heard only), but very doubtful. Analogue to strife. So if you chop off your shoulder, you can say that MySQL is an analogue of MSSQL. But if you look closely (not even very closely), then the analogue of course, but much worse.
Each DBMS has its own chips and different programs are tightly tied to these chips. Type, for example, partitioned tables and indexes in MSSQL.
You can say that all this can be redone, transferred, etc., but you can fly to Jupiter if you have an unlimited number of resources. Programs have been developed for decades, and taking and deploying them to Postgres with Oracle is a daunting task.
Yes, and no one will migrate incomprehensibly to what, then to rake up problems. It takes decades to earn a reputation, but nothing like that.
These conversations - "I did it, it is possible .." Yes, everything is possible, only a lot of money and time are needed - more than a dozen years, maybe.

[ZAV69]

Quote: Junger

MySQL - an analogue of MSSQL

Actually, the lighter relative of MSSQL is SUBASE.
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Quote: Junger

You can say that all this can be redone, transferred, etc., but you can fly to Jupiter if you have an unlimited number of resources. Programs have been developed for decades, and taking and deploying them to Postgres with Oracle is a daunting task.

At one point, the US Congress will take and forbid Oracle and Microsoft to work with Russian enterprises in the same way as they forbade working with Huawei. That is, do not purchase an additional license, will not contact technical support ....... What then to do? And not the fact that the servers do not remotely stop.
15 years ago everything looked just fine, pay for licenses, use it. Climb a pirate for a nominal fee. Now what have you come to? Sanctions smother a world-class corporation, remotely kill equipment. As they say, all means are good. It has long been clear to everyone that in critical places everything should be its own. So they saw their axles with the Samsung and Samsung.

[demo]

Reportedly, for a quick transition, banks will have to spend more than 700 billion rubles one-time, which, in turn, can lead to more expensive credit institution services for Russian citizens.
In 2019, the profit of Russian banks amounted to 1,7 trillion rubles. In 2019, the profit of Russian banks amounted to 1,7 trillion rubles, without the effect of IFRS-9 - 1,3 trillion rubles. 28 Jan. 2020
The faces are arrogant and full-time.
Will your faces not crack?