“He saw the Buk driving: in court on MH17, instead of witnesses, they present their alphanumeric codes

“This man saw a Buk ride. So in the course of the trial in the case of the Boeing shot down over the Donbass in July 2014, a certain witness was designated. At the same time, the prosecutor Thijs Berger immediately made it clear that the prosecution would not disclose any information about the witness, since "this could affect the safety of this person."

This wording itself looks strange. It turns out that for a court in the Netherlands it is enough that they inform him of the presence of an anonymous witness so that the court takes into account his testimony.

So what did this person say during the trial?

According to him, he saw “how the Buk was driving along the road from Snezhnoye to Saur-Mogila and also saw a military crew in tank headsets ".

From the testimony of the “witness”, who is designated by the alphanumeric code X48 during the process and who was “voiced” by the prosecutor (also an “interesting” practice):

He also heard how the rocket started, saw it. X48 saw the field catch fire where the rocket launched. He says that after the launch of the rocket he rode out onto the road and saw 4 soldiers in the same khaki uniform, they were all wearing tank headsets. These soldiers looked exactly like those standing at the checkpoint through which he was passing.

The court asked the prosecutor when the witness testified and whether they could be trusted. At the same time, the judges make it clear that they do not know anything about the witness. Prosecutor Berger stated that the interrogation took place 4 years ago and added:

His testimony is reliable.

Who would doubt that...

It is noteworthy that there is no information about where this X48 saw "soldiers in tank headsets" - either in the launcher itself, or somewhere nearby, who can confirm his testimony at all. Also, the Netherlands prosecutor’s office does not give an answer to the question: how much does all this make sure that the “witness” knows exactly what the Buk air defense system looks like.

An even more urgent question: does this mean that any statements and allegations from unknown people may appear in the case, which the prosecutor, having assigned alphanumeric codes, will call “witnesses”, because it is not possible to verify their presence or the veracity of their testimonies?

Comments

[Civil]

Not a court, but a laughing stock ... neither witnesses nor documented evidence.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Civil

Not a court, but a laughing stock ... neither witnesses nor documented evidence.

Such an opinion is created that either ignoramuses or stupid people are sitting in this court. "He saw how the Buk was driving.

[hagen]

Quote: tihonmarine

Such an opinion is created that either ignoramuses or stupid people are sitting in this court. "He saw how the Buk was driving.

There, in the courts, there are smart and competent people. But there is also a form of democracy there that allows you to put pressure on the court in order to make a politically biased court decision. Who has doubts about what kind of solution it will be in this case? .... Someone else doubts that it is necessary to protect their "intimate" places from other people's "playful" hands? (this refers to the issue of voting for amendments, a boycott proposed by some journalists ....).

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Hagen

There, in the courts, smart and competent people sit.

But when such clever and literate, carry "childish babble", then the mind and literacy fly away like a basin over the bath, and there is dirt and debris. If you sit in the judge's chair, be worthy of this title, these qualities are not there, judge pickpockets or deliver pizza.

[neri73-r]

Quote: tihonmarine

If you sat in the judge’s chair, be worthy of this title, there are no such qualities, judge pocket thieves or deliver pizza.

Do you still believe in democracy, freedom of speech, an honest western court? Yes, naivety is not a sign of stupidity, but purity of the soul! (c) Just there, the court is very smart to allow an honest trial, which will not leave stone unturned from the arguments like the court of the Dutch prosecutor’s office!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: neri73-r

Do you still believe in democracy, freedom of speech, an honest western court?

There can be no faith in the "democracy" of the West. But while I believe in a person, not everyone can step over themselves.

[neri73-r]

Quote: tihonmarine

But while I believe in people, not everyone can step over themselves.

Believe me, I was not there as a tourist, they are OTHER! There, 95% of the population believes only in money, they think only of them and everything is measured, unlike us, only in money! Profit - at any cost, and depending on its size, including crime. The smile there is just a beautiful sign.

[Doliva63]

Quote: neri73-r

Quote: tihonmarine

But while I believe in people, not everyone can step over themselves.

Believe me, I was not there as a tourist, they are OTHER! There, 95% of the population believes only in money, they think only of them and everything is measured, unlike us, only in money! Profit - at any cost, and depending on its size, including crime. The smile there is just a beautiful sign.

You are directly quoting the classics of Marxism-Leninism!

[hagen]

Quote: tihonmarine

But when they are so smart and literate, they are babbling

But he carries this babble exclusively for internal consumption. And there this is enough, that "people hawala". As babbling ceases to pass, babbling also changes ... Demand creates supply. And I think the judge's salary depends to a large extent on this babble.

[major147]

Quote: tihonmarine

If you sit in the chair of a judge, be worthy of this title,

Oh! Who are you talking about? Isn't it about the judges of the "Stockholm Arbitration" !?

[carstorm 11]

at least the defense should have the right to ask questions such as how he distinguished the beech from the tractor.

[venik]

Quote: tihonmarine

Such an opinion is created that either ignoramuses or stupid people are sitting in this court. "He saw how the Buk was driving.

=========
Lord! Yes, with the same "success" I can drag them a whole crowd of "witnesses" who Did not seehow the Buk drove .... And even the Buk itself has never been seen before !!!

[major147]

Quote: venik

Quote: tihonmarine

Such an opinion is created that either ignoramuses or stupid people are sitting in this court. "He saw how the Buk was driving.

=========
Lord! Yes, with the same "success" I can drag them a whole crowd of "witnesses" who Did not seehow the Buk drove .... And even the Buk itself has never been seen before !!!

Or they saw and heard how before and after the launch of the rocket the military shouted "Sala of Ukraine"!

[Doliva63]

Quote: venik

Quote: tihonmarine

Such an opinion is created that either ignoramuses or stupid people are sitting in this court. "He saw how the Buk was driving.

=========
Lord! Yes, with the same "success" I can drag them a whole crowd of "witnesses" who Did not seehow the Buk drove .... And even the Buk itself has never been seen before !!!

It is true that the defense also needs to present a secret witness who will confidently declare that he did not see any Buka that day.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: tihonmarine

“He saw the Buk driving.

See how the Buk rode and die.

[major147]

Quote: tihonmarine

He saw the Buk driving.

X48 - His testimony is reliable.

- in general, "one grandmother said!"

[76rtbr]

and how did he determine that it was a Buk? maybe "Cube" or Poplar, but Ash did not swim ???
some military experts in Ukraine.

[demo]

True, she, as an awl, will come out anyway.
Not today, so tomorrow.
Yes, even after 10 years.
Relatives of the victims of this flight remained and there will be a lot.
And where is the guarantee that there will not be at least one Kaloev among them?

[Doliva63]

Quote: demo

True, she, as an awl, will come out anyway.
Not today, so tomorrow.
Yes, even after 10 years.
Relatives of the victims of this flight remained and there will be a lot.
And where is the guarantee that there will not be at least one Kaloev among them?

The Dutch judge probably didn’t hear about Kaloev. But rather, that loot is more expensive than life - they also hammer it: live here and now.

[demo]

Time will tell.

[Doliva63]

Quote: demo

Time will tell.

This is yes.

[sen]

Based on the reputation of Ukraine, most likely its witness was fabricated.

[Basil50]

Everything is moving toward * digitalization *, and the witness has been encoded. So soon the judges will be coded. Then the program is squeezed into the laptop and the whole process of * justice * will be much cheaper and more manageable.
We are waiting for the sss progress.
But still, what about the laws?
Or to hell with them? With the laws. The main thing is to achieve the desired result

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Vasily50

Everything is moving toward * digitalization *, and the witness has been encoded. So soon the judges will be coded. Then the program is squeezed into the laptop and the whole process of * justice * will be much cheaper and more manageable

And then, as always, hackers crack this program, and a general judicial mess and chaos will begin. (although chaos has already begun without it).

[makasan34]

it's all a dumb matrix

[venik]

Quote: Vasily50

So soon the judges will be coded.

=======
Already! At least very similar to that!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Vasily50

Everything is moving towards * digitalization *, and here is the witness of the law ....

I agree with you, though not sure what litigation on line it's good. But we definitely observe a new thing in jurisprudence - when a witness is not even necessary to present - a modern variety gentlemen believe the word

Quote: Vasily50

But still, what about the laws? Or to hell with them? With the laws. The main thing is to achieve the desired result

Paid ...

[PalBor]

Yes, he smiled too. But there is no further desire to smile. They set out to blame Russia and they will do it, no matter what. Well, they do everything to make of us barbarians and cannibals. This is all in order to justify a nuclear strike on Russia: "Well, what, they are not people, savages ..."

[Insurgent]

“He saw the Buk driving: in court on MH17, instead of witnesses, they present their alphanumeric codes

SAM "Buk" was seen and "seen" in fact in many places.

And in Kramatorsk, occupied by the APU, in the military unit on the street. Stratonavtov in Donetsk, in Zugres and Lugansk, in Zaroshchenskoye, near Shakhterskoye, in Torez, Snezhnoye, now here is "near Saur Grave"...

Someone obviously deliberately creates the appearance that the DPR and LPR literally "swarmed with Bukami" ...

[Insurgent]

he saw "how the Buk was driving along the road from Snezhnoye to Saur-Mogila and also saw military crew in tank headsets"

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Insurgent

Someone obviously deliberately creates the appearance that the DPR and LPR literally "swarmed with Bukami".

Soon it will be agreed that there were more Buks in the Lao PDR than Kalashnikovs.

[PalBor]

In-in, the evil Puten (no matter how I treat him) sent a Bukov division to bring down a random Boeing.

[vvvjak]

Quote: Insurgent

SAM "Buk" was seen and "seen" in fact in many places.

And not surprisingly, everyone knows that at first glance any Ukrainian peasant (and some even by the sound of the missile being launched) can determine not only the type of air defense system, but also its modification, and even determine the nationality of the crew by accent.

[Insurgent]

Quote: vvvjak

And not surprisingly, everyone knows that at first glance any Ukrainian peasant (and some even by the sound of the missile being launched) can determine not only the type of air defense system, but also its modification, and even determine the nationality of the crew by accent.

Everything is as it were, but with significant amendments to regional conditions:

- Donbass was Ukraine purely nominally, and we proved it;

- the population of Donetsk region (DPR) predominantly urban("proletariat"), which at one time led to the inclusion of Donbass in the peasant Little Russia ...

[vvvjak]

Quote: Insurgent

Donbass was Ukraine purely nominally, and we proved it;

Undoubtedly.

Quote: Insurgent

the population of Donetsk region (DPR) is mainly urban

I am aware of this. But, you must agree, a city dweller of the DPR will not observe the movements of the air defense system in the field, and even more so testify about this in a court of a foreign state. From this simple thought, we can conclude that X 48 is a villager and a Ukrainian (or, let's put it bluntly, "Ukrainian"), moreover, versed in military equipment no worse than experts in the military, with obvious linguistic abilities. In a word, the Munchausen harrow of our day.

[sevryuk]

There were no Ukrainian peasants there, but the Donetsk miners, yes ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: sevryuk

Ukrainian peasants were not born there, but the Donetsk miners, yes ..

On the controlled territory of Ukraine, they brought "peasants" from Western Ukraine.

[Mountain shooter]

What can I say ... he saw, he certainly saw, and if you grant citizenship and include in the witness protection program, I’ll tell you who killed Kennedy ...!

[Russobel]

killed kenedy ...!

He killed and buried it in the ground, and wrote the inscription ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

and if you grant citizenship and include in the witness protection program, I’ll tell you who killed Kennedy ...!

And unemployment benefits.

[siberalt]

We vote for amendments and no Hague is not afraid of us. Therefore, hired Dutch prosecutors are in a hurry.

[Volodin]

Quote: siberalt

We vote for amendments and no Hague is not afraid of us.

I don’t understand, but what, are you afraid of The Hague now? Or do you seriously think that later in The Hague they will say: "That's it, we close the case, in Russia they adopted the amendments."

These sixes have a task, and whether they want it or do not want it, they will have to solve it, which they demonstrate with their X48 ...

[siberalt]

Articles 15,17 of the colonial Yeltsin Constitution of the Russian Federation, determining the supremacy of international law over Russian. Amendments will change this.

[Volodin]

Quote: siberalt

Articles 15,17 of the colonial Yeltsin Constitution of the Russian Federation, determining the supremacy of international law over Russian.

Well, you understand that if these articles are canceled, then this will not affect the Dutch prosecutors or judges. They will continue what they were "instructed" - they certainly do not care about the RF Constitution.

[siberalt]

All right. They will not be affected, but their sanctions can be put with the device on the basis of amendments. All treaties on the supremacy of international jurisdiction over Russian will automatically lose force.

[Volodin]

Quote: siberalt

They will not be affected, but their sanctions can be put with the device on the basis of amendments.

I just want to clarify exactly how to put it? .. We’ll put it with you, but those who have children abroad, billions of dollars in the same place, villas, land, put? ...

For example, sanctions have been introduced against the activities of Russian banks in Crimea. It seems to me that even after the adoption of these very amendments, our banking "bags" will not have the courage to start a full-fledged activity on the peninsula, because they know that they can take foreign assets as a soft spot. And after the adoption of the amendments, it is unlikely that the Swiss Allseas will immediately return to finish building the SP-2. These are realities.

[siberalt]

I agree. I'm also interested in who and how will be able to "put". The Russian Foreign Ministry, of course, with its numerous legal department, not counting the press secretary. But this is quite real. Yes, only, something is not enough breakthroughs of our diplomacy. Some conversations. Sadness, however.

[shinobi]

Those who do not have foreign assets will come, there are also enough of them. Sanctions are a double-edged thing, do not store money in banks in the United States and tied from the United States (there are also a lot of them) and you will be happy. Offshore companies have not just appeared. The devil is not so terrible painted.

[nov_tech.vrn]

Sberbank is so much owned by the Naglo-Saxons that its management does not want to know anything, now that when the state has 50% +1 share, most recently the central bank was planning to reduce its share to 25%, they almost had time.

[major147]

Quote: Volodin

Just want to clarify exactly how to put it? ..

"The Hague judges" can find Russia guilty and oblige to pay a bunch of compensation. According to the current constitution, we are obliged to obey, and the amendments will be adopted - you can send "judges" through the forest ...

[The leader of the Redskins]

Russia has enough foreign assets (buildings, a joint venture, production and etc.) which, according to INTERNATIONAL law, can be taken away at the expense of compensation. And then it will be possible to stay with naked opera and ... the laid device.

[dragy52rus]

as I understand it, there is no foreign property in Russia?

[The leader of the Redskins]

And what is more likely to be reflected in counter-argument economies? Closing McDonald's? Or any of the above?

[Egor-dis]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

And what is more likely to be reflected in counter-argument economies? Closing McDonald's?

Are you sure that in Russia there is nothing to take from them except "McDonald's"?

[The leader of the Redskins]

Overlapping which of these industries will not be "ears frostbitten with evil"? Any of them can easily go to production workers from another country. Now let's imagine that they cut off our oxygen. Where will we look for cooperation? In Venezuela or Cuba?
In this case, the story will repeat itself with the sanctions, from which we "only get better."

[Egor-dis]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Overlapping which of these industries will not be "ears frostbitten with evil"?

Any. Firstly, no one has canceled cooperation with China. Secondly, in strategic industries (where it has not been done yet) they will start kicking local producers / contractors to speed up import substitution.
Stalin in such a situation did not hesitate, by any means, to industrialize and establish his own production. Thanks to this, they had their tanks and their aviation and their atomic bomb. It would be a desire.

[aglet]

Well, and who will take this away from partners? you will not name a surname?

[Egor-dis]

Quote: aglet

Well, and who will take this away from partners? you will not name a surname?

Life will back up - there are names. For example Zhirik will be assigned to export. And "red guards" to organize minors is not a problem at all. Ukraine is an example of this.

[major147]

Quote: aglet

Well, and who will take this away from partners? you will not name a surname?

And who took the dip from Russia. property in the US and not shy !? And we will find how the team will be.

[aglet]

Americans are not shy, ours are shy, not that upbringing, and even so

[major147]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Closing McDonald's?

For a long time I have been pondering the question of what the West needs to do in order to impose Russian sanctions in response, for example, on Coca-Cola. It seems to me that "enlightenment in the mind" will quickly come there!

[siberalt]

Anyone who cannot defend their rights will be crushed with naked opo. You need to be strong as the USSR or as the Russian Empire of the 18-19th century.

[Insurgent]

Quote: siberalt

We vote for amendments and no Hague is not afraid of us.

Quote: siberalt

Anyone who cannot defend their rights will be crushed with naked opo. You need to be strong as the USSR or as the Russian Empire of the 18-19th century.

"Amendments decide everything"?

What prevents, spit on them now, to pursue an independent policy?

Lack of FORCE, or WILL at the leadership of the Russian Federation?

And how should "corrections", "zeroing" affect the appearance of these qualities in someone?

"May force (and will) be amended"?

[The leader of the Redskins]

Yes, but both the Russian Empire and the USSR supported international law! That is, "I lived with wolves, howled like wolves," and now we are trying to pull the blanket over ourselves alone.

[siberalt]

The USSR and our ancestors wrote international law by blood and force, and demanded its implementation by all who were in the zone of their influence. There is no other way. Dragging a blanket is not our time now. First you need to become strong. Everything goes to that, but very good. slow. The device must be cleaned, the system rebuilt. There are real leaders who are ready for this, but they are not appointed bulk.

[Igoresha]

supported international law!

this, apparently, is the main reason for the extradition of militias to Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Serbia

[Doliva63]

Quote: siberalt

Anyone who cannot defend their rights will be crushed with naked opo. You need to be strong as the USSR or as the Russian Empire of the 18-19th century.

Will the amendments return us in those days?

[ZAV69]

And if you dig that in Russia is full of assets that belong to the same Holland for example. And these assets will be several times more Russian check over the hill.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Russia has enough foreign assets (buildings, a joint venture, production and etc.) which, according to INTERNATIONAL law, can be taken away at the expense of compensation. And then it will be possible to stay with naked opera and ... the laid device.

Moreover, the presence / absence of amendments can in no way affect this

[tihonmarine]

Quote: siberalt

Articles 15,17 of the colonial Yeltsin Constitution of the Russian Federation, determining the supremacy of international law over Russian.

Only an enemy of Russia and his people could come up with this.

[aglet]

Are you very sure about this? Do you think the partners will just take and let Russia go to their own laws? anyway, then they’ll come up with something so that the status of the colony does not change. and what do the laws of Russia mean, for example, the United States, or Belgium, or Estonia? absolutely nothing

[carstorm 11]

and not only that. only our documents began to prove that such missiles are not used in our country as they immediately found striking elements in the bodies similar to those that are already in the new ones. and the other day they somehow sharply turned on the fact that the rocket was different. 6 years was one and now suddenly another.

[military_cat]

Quote: carstorm 11

the other day they somehow sharply turned on the fact that the rocket was different. 6 years was one and now suddenly another.

The Dutch have always talked about the "9M38 series", which includes the 9M38 and 9M38M1. I-beams (which are used in the warhead of 9M38M1 missiles) were found back in 2014, as they said then. Now the same thing was repeated at the trial.

[hagen]

Quote: Volodin

I don’t understand, but what, are you afraid of The Hague now?

You are a literate person! You understand that the Hague doesn't care about our constitution, just like us from the Netherlands ... The main thing is that the power structures, neither these nor those that follow, begin to sprinkle ashes on their heads and take responsibility, as happened with Katyn. Do you not admit that in 10-15 years people may come to power, ready for the sake of another squandering of the IMF, the INF Treaty and another good goal, to compromise, as was done in 2010? And these decisions really "hiccup" to us. I think that's the point ...

[aszzz888]

An even more urgent question: does this mean that any statements and allegations from unknown people may appear in the case, which the prosecutor, having assigned alphanumeric codes, will call “witnesses”, because it is not possible to verify their presence or the veracity of their testimonies?

They can, and there is no doubt about that. It’s not just that the testimony is attracted by the ears, but EVERYTHING is done to blame Russia. The Netherlands can also create a witness from the air, it all depends on the strength of the dope.

[siberalt]

In fact, if Russia has nothing to take, everyone does not care about it. The main thing for us is what we have. Ukraine blames Russia for everything, and Russia blames America. But there’s only one thing - to take the public away from their internal problems to the chin. In any case, the Netherlands are not proper plaintiffs. The downed plane is not their property, and the relatives of the victims are not all of their subjects. There are no claims from a legally unorganized community of victims in nature. Here, everyone is for himself. But, for some reason, the main victim Malaysia is still silent, although he does not agree with the methods of political biased investigation. So, it’s too early to break spears and howl about some irresponsible inevitable punishments.

[rotmistr60]

X48

And how many of these X .. have the prosecutor in stock? But the most striking thing is that

His testimony is reliable

I heard the launch, saw burning grass (and where did the Buk go), people in headsets (probably got out of the burning grass to see what and where they launched), who are similar to those who stood at the checkpoint (at the checkpoint, everyone is wearing headsets and differ from APU) ... And this is what the prosecutor says? Complete insanity.

[alstr]

This begs the legitimate question: how many times did the witness hear the launch of an anti-aircraft missile? Can he by ear determine the sound of the anti-aircraft missile launch from the launch of the ATGM?

There is also a question about the military at the checkpoint: how did he find out that those who stand at the checkpoint belong to the DPR and DPR, and not the Armed Forces?

[Insurgent]

Quote: alstr

There is also a question about the military at the checkpoint: how did he find out that those who stand at the checkpoint belong to the DPR and DPR, and not the Armed Forces?

Exactly, and aptly posed question.

At the age of 14, a boy I knew had to take his mother to the Ukrop territory (there was not a simple life situation there), and when he returned, at one of the checkpoints, people without identification marks and in an impersonal form asked "interesting" questions: "Who, where, ... your city of the DPR, or Ukraine?"

In general, in this spirit ... Barely "looped" ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: alstr

This begs the legitimate question: how many times did the witness hear the launch of an anti-aircraft missile? Can he by ear determine the sound of the anti-aircraft missile launch from the launch of the ATGM?

And did the witness see the Buk live. And in general "was there a boy (witness). It seems that Ukrainian SBU officers were appointed as witnesses."

[rocket757]

The trial, like the trial ... nothing else to expect there.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

The trial, like the trial ... nothing else to expect there.

As in the old "good" days: the landowner ordered a flogging and appointed 25 lashes, the trial is over.

[gvozdan]

It is also necessary for the defense to expose reliable digital witnesses who will tell you everything you need.

[Olddetractor]

How gloriously the Dutch decide on the limits of proof, it’s a pleasure to watch. This is how an independent European court works! Are these judges the descendants of those who conducted trials of witches?

[boris epstein]

The Bukov column of the 3rd battalion of the 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Ukrainian air defense was on its own from Lugansk to Artemovsk for loading. The convoy also has a firing unit with tactical number 312, which was filmed on a mobile phone in the area between the villages of Blagodatnoye and Praskoveevka in the Artyomovsk region. And this video is on the Internet.

[ANDREY MIKHAILOV_2]

It can be seen when Buk was driving, his phone was discharged. The gentleman was taken for granted. The prosecutor Your word. I swear to my mother. But the circus is real.

[Fungus]

A circus, not a court. It's not that serious.

[pexotinec]

The defense also needs to come up with a witness x51 who did not see the BUK there. And another five years, the brain will twist this circus tent (court).

[cost 75]

And also witness x52 who did not see witness x51 there at all

[Sibguest]

Citizens Dutch judges!
I have a question for you: in my hem every year, in the spring, there is a knock.
The witnesses are dumb, but I honestly say that I’m not lying.
Can you tell me less according to the scientist - what a knock?

[Slipper 2]

It’s all for the Netherlands, it makes it difficult to forget the pain ...

[cesar65]

I recall an old joke: Doctors gathered at the conference and discuss which doctors are better. German: we do a heart transplant. American: we have glass eyes implanted into a blind man and now he sees everything like an eagle. Russian: and we came to the peasant horse h ... n and now he is inseminating everyone. American: and who saw it. Russian: yes your man with glass eyes.

[Viktor Sergeev]

I can give evidence. Personally present when the Ukrainians launched the rocket and saw how it got into a Boeing. Give evidence via email or social networks?

[Insurgent]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I can give evidence. Personally present when the Ukrainians launched the rocket and saw how it got into a Boeing. Give evidence via email or social networks?

Toka so ... "Flash drives from Gordon"The whole Hague is already packed.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Still so: I saw a Ukrainian Buk, three, he launched a rocket, three, shot down a Boeing, three pieces.

[Avior]

If you want to testify in you need here
https://www.svs.law/en/news/office-news/defense-team-mh-17-inquiry/
this is the law office that protects Pulatov.
[phone]
[email protected]
Martin van Putten
or here
Moscow College of Lawyers "Carpet and Partners"
119180, Moscow, st. B. Yakimanka, d.1
Telephone: + 7 495 777 88 15
Email: [email protected]
Elena Kutina

[Viktor Sergeev]

I'm afraid the Dutch court accepts only those testimonies that secret witnesses give in favor of the prosecutor's office. there are a bunch of real witnesses about the plane, plus you can bring at least hundreds of witnesses living in the area from which they launched the rocket, which can show that there was no launch (you cannot hide the rumble). But who needs truth there?
I think the trial is just beginning. If the lawyers are normal, then they will start with an examination of the fragment, supposedly from Buk: the chemical composition, the thickness of the barrier that is needed to flatten the alloy steel (Buk brand), whether the steel can flatten against duralumin (funny). Next will be a bunch of witnesses. The court will stretch, I think for a couple of years.

[Avior]

I gave you the phones of the lawyers and gave them, they know better in what form and how to present your testimony.
As for the lawyers, they have access to the investigation materials, and we will see by their reaction what really can cause doubts and what not

[Viktor Sergeev]

Are you really pretending or don't understand sarcasm?

[Avior]

Understand:))
I clearly illustrate that compiling evidence or forging evidence in such a case is not an easy task.
Actually, lawyers see what they can catch on to, what not.
The people were piled on the ears in this matter so much that people can not understand what is true, what is not, and what is important and what is secondary.
But according to lawyers and their reactions can be judged.

[silverwolf88]

They would have had a few nights at the bench with grannies ... oh, and they would have received information ... about 50 years of court work ... and instead of grannies, their grandchildren would have confirmed that they had repeatedly heard their statements about Masha from the 5th floor ... the government ... and the international setting shattered ...

[Viktor Sergeev]

By the way, a man was taken to the hospital, is he supposed to have a million? This is not a joke, but a reality.

[Fedorovich]

Yeah, I saw people in headsets. And I saw a wolf, a fox and a hare.
And in general, I recall one Polish detective: "The witness could not see the receipts, because a bird with pink plumage was sitting on it" ...

[Pavel Shadoyan]

The girl who married a foreigner tells him after the wedding night:
“Darling, I have to admit something to you: I have color blindness.”
- I also have to admit something to you: I'm not a Swede, but an Ethiopian.

[TatarinSSSR]

clown court of clown state

[svp67]

They more and more resemble those "gentlemen" who must be taken "at their word ...".
There are no pictures, but their representative READED his exact description and is sure that everything is fine there, there is an "unknown" witness who cannot be protected by anyone, and therefore, who this witness we will never know, they ask to provide Ukraine and Russia with their data radar stations, about the situation in that area at that time, Ukraine says, but they did not work for us .... ??????? But how did they escort many civilian aircraft? But Ukraine is believed "at its word". And what Russia has provided is rejected by them as "not credible" ... There are quite a few filming of the BUK air defense missile system in the area that belonged to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but this is not even considered, since Ukraine seems to be simply "beyond suspicion."
But if you figure out to whom this incident was beneficial, so in this list Ukraine shares the first place with the United States, but Russia is at the very end of the list.

[ZaharoFF]

What an interesting court. The Netherlands is forced to be a laughing stock. It is obvious. The performance is not finished, it will not end at all, it’s like (sorry) the Poles with their inanimate president and shovels will go on endlessly, shocking the audience with fantastic versions, one monstrous and dumber than the other.

[Avior]

Pulatov’s lawyers filed a disclosure complaint with 13 witnesses in April.
The complaint was examined by the Hague District Court Council.
The decision is to disclose the identity of one of the witnesses, 12 are considered to be at risk if their identity is disclosed, therefore they decided to leave them anonymous.
Attorneys may additionally file disclosure appeals during the process.
https://apnews.com/9ee34f5a8509f5b00100d5df7d26c9e8

[Vasyan1971]

Does this mean that any statements and statements from unknown people may appear in the case, which the prosecutor, having assigned alphanumeric codes, will call “witnesses”, because it is not possible to verify their presence or the veracity of their testimonies?

After the "highley like" nothing is surprising.

[HAM]

If "xl" has worked several times, then why not use this technique more than once ...
Western man doesn’t need evidence, he’s sure the media can’t lie .... and .... why should he think?
They ALREADY thought for them ....

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: HAM

If "xl" has worked several times, then why not use this technique more than once ...

Exactly. And then it will come into constant practice. First for strangers, and then for their own ...

[Prisoner]

They work too. Stupid, that the witnesses, that the "judges".

[Strashila]

for a freebie to live in the West, at the expense of the West, they will not tell that yet. given all the "secrecy", they clearly asked for a witness protection program. "how the field caught fire where the rocket was launched," the only paradox is that after studying satellite images, investigators could not find the launch site on the scorched earth, and the spot should not be small to hide it from satellites.
so these testimonies in one word, nonsense.

[thinker]

In ukroSMI is given an awesome quote X48

In the afternoon of July 17, 2014, near the blockade of the self-proclaimed DPR on the road from Snezhnoye to Saur-Mogila, he saw Buk riding, and in a few minutes heard and saw that the rocket was launched.

Rocket biathlon - raced, shot and further!
https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/667903.html

[Cristall]

Quote: thinker

and a few minutes later he heard and saw that the rocket was launched.

the phrase about a few minutes is familiar to everyone. It's up to half an hour. (Something like 5 minutes)
What’s important is another thing that the prosecutor summarized from these statements

X48 saw the field ignite and knew where the rocket was launched, "the prosecutor detailed.

one more witness

Like the M58, the X48 was present at the shooting site.

words are also interesting

According to him, this is the same place that is shown in satellite images.

pictures just terrain or at that time *?

this witness was heard by the investigating judge in 2016 in the absence of the State Prosecutor's Office, which was given the opportunity to ask several written questions.

that is, the GP will still ask him questions about the military ..

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Cristall

the phrase about a few minutes is familiar to everyone.

And you Katya from fools ... ..from the ban released?

[Brigadier]

It's like in a joke about Petka and Chapaev.

Chapaev is returning from a business trip to England. He is dressed all with a needle, in a limousine, on his hands are rings with diamonds. Full trunk of money. Porters carry out a bunch of suitcases.
Petka asks him in surprise:
- Vasily Ivanovich, where did you get all this from?
- Yes, Petka, I won the cards.
- Like this?
- I go to the club. Everyone is sitting there, drinking, playing cards.
I looked closely - they are cutting into a point! I sat down at the table, took the cards.
I have 18. And my English rival tells me that he has 20.
I told him: "Show your cards!" And he told me: "We, gentlemen, take our word for it."
Here it is to me how hurt, how hurt ...

[doubovitski]

I will tell jokes:
"15439". Why aren't you laughing?
"78309"
Why don't you sue me? I, after all, insulted you in the blackest way.

[doubovitski]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I can give evidence. Personally present when the Ukrainians launched the rocket and saw how it got into a Boeing. Give evidence via email or social networks?

Start by organizing a bank account and publish its number. To prepare it to receive a testimony fee. Encrypt the readings. And, only after receiving the dough, give the decryption key. Come up with your own surname. And the host country.

[steelmaker]

And so they judge everywhere, even in Russia. Remember the case of Ulyukaev. Chief witness Sechin did not testify in court. His statement was enough. In the same way, the Serbs were judged in The Hague. I am outraged that Russia is calmly reacting to such impudent lawlessness. Just do not tell me that Russia has no opportunities and ways.

[Boris63]

On the 17th, to Saur-grave ...? It seems like the whole July there was a uniform "meat grinder" ... And the Ukrop flyers were still flying then. X ... 48 sculpts a hunchback, and the prosecutor has a share.

[1536]

Peter I, probably, would have boasted to the Dutch, having sent them the composition of the technical means of the Russian-made Buk-M complex:
Command post 9С470М1-2;
Self-propelled firing system 9A310M1-2;
Start-up installation 9А39М1;
Target detection station 9С18М1;
technical service vehicle (MTO) 9V881M1-2 with a spare part trailer 9T456;
workshop of technical maintenance (MTO) AGZ-M1;
Repair and Maintenance Machines (MRTO):
MRTO-1 9V883M1,
MRTO-2 9V884M1,
MRTO-3 9V894M1,
9T243 transport vehicle with a set of technological equipment (CTO) 9T3184;
automated control and testing mobile station (AKIPS) 9V95M1;
9T458 missile repair machine (workshop);
unified compressor station UKS-400V;
mobile power station PES-100-T / 400-AKP1.
This weapon system of the air defense forces does not function without any of its components, and even more so if this component is absent, it is not used in the performance of a combat mission.
So what did this Ukrainian "eyewitness" see?

[Igor Pa]

In Holland x48 spoke out. I wonder what x69 will say!

[Operator]

The criminal investigation consists of two parts - pre-trial (by the prosecutors) and judicial (by the judges). You can’t listen to the text of testimonies of living witnesses (even anonymous ones) in court: if you don’t want to reveal the identity of the witness to the public, listen to his answers through a video broadcast with distortion of the picture and sound. Moreover, for judges, the identity of the witness should be absolutely transparent.

In this connection, a circus show is held in Holland, not a court.

[zwlad]

This is not a court, this is some kind of circus tent!
But the most regrettable is that the decision of this circus will have legal force, and nothing can be done about it.

[rotfuks]

Here I am a reserve officer. But BUK saw only from afar. And I am not able to determine its type and determine the type of rocket. But it seems that the territory of Donbass is teeming with specialists who are capable of looking at determining the type of missile and launcher. And such people are considered witnesses in court. But what is strange, the main witness, the Ukrainian dispatcher, was never presented either live or digitally. Or did the dispatcher go look for the pilot Voloshin?

[iouris]

And I did not see anything like this (I ask you to add it to the protocol and attach to the case).

[Lester7777]

What's the problem? I don’t understand. "He saw ..." We have nearly 145 million witnesses who have not seen.

[123456789]

The devil is in the details:

[yfast]

Let them prove to themselves that Russia is to blame, they themselves will be fined, I do not mind, but to pay officials and oligarchs with foreign real estate. Then even an incentive will appear for the planes of that ... until the depletion of the stock of real estate over the hill. Let,, in Russia live with their children.

[iouris]

Quote: yfast

I do not mind, but in order to pay foreign real estate officials and oligarchs

This is all stolen from the USSR and the population of the Russian Federation.

[LeonidL]

"He also heard how the rocket started, saw it. X48 saw the field catch fire where the rocket launched. He says that after the launch of the rocket he rode out onto the road and saw 4 soldiers in the same khaki uniform, they were all wearing tank headsets. These soldiers looked exactly like those standing at the checkpoint through which he was passing. "- And the dead are standing with scythes! And the most piquant thing is" four soldiers in the same khaki uniform in tank headsets! " "Quiet Ukrainian night." And the installation itself was "reliable" I saw and immediately identified the "Buk"? stop!

[NF68]

Let the Internet look for data. Suddenly, and there something was laid out by any of the eyewitnesses, such as Putin personally controlled the air defense system. Or, at worst, Shaigu .. And on this basis alone, it will be possible to start sewing the case.

[lvov_aleksey]

there was infa for a long time, but nobody wants to remember about it, board number 1 of the Russian Federation in September 2014, where did it fly from, what route? (ps only delayed for 30 minutes)