Military Review

When creating the conversion rockets Rokot, Roscosmos will do without Ukraine

96

The Khrunichev Center, which is part of the state corporation Roscosmos, decided to start production of Rokot rockets again. They are created on the basis of the RS-18B Stilet intercontinental ballistic missiles, which have been withdrawn from service.


About this news agency RIA News A source related to the space rocket industry said.

The contract for the development of Rokot-2 conversion rockets was concluded between the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Khrunichev Center.

Earlier, the Rokota management system was produced in Kharkov by the Khartron enterprise, but after 2014, supplies from Ukraine ceased. This led to the cessation of launches of these missiles.

Now the control equipment for Rokot will be released by the Khrunichev Center. The company named the new Rokot-M missile, coordinating this name with the Russian Ministry of Defense.

The development of a new missile will cost the Khrunichev Center in the amount of 3,4 billion rubles, of which 690 million will be spent on the creation of a new control system. The amount also includes expenses for the creation of the upper stage, modernization of the launch pad of the Plesetsk cosmodrome, the organization of the first launch and other expenses.

To launch spacecraft before 2028, you can use more than 40 ICBMs "Stiletto", which were removed from duty.
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  1. Tugarin
    Tugarin 8 June 2020 09: 40 New
    +2
    That they want to get away from dependence on Ukraine is good.
    The amount also includes expenses for ..., modernization of the launch pad of the Plesetsk cosmodrome, ....

    Can’t modernization be avoided? Is the site so outdated?
    1. Civil
      Civil 8 June 2020 09: 51 New
      +5
      modernization of the launch pad of the Plesetsk cosmodrome


      What is wrong with Yasny? There all launches were successful.
      1. An64
        An64 8 June 2020 10: 12 New
        +5
        Dnepr was launched from Yasny
      2. Ramzes iv
        Ramzes iv 8 June 2020 10: 16 New
        +4
        Quote: Civil
        modernization of the launch pad of the Plesetsk cosmodrome


        What is wrong with Yasny? There all launches were successful.

        There, the strategists launched. In which the term of duty-storage was drawing to an end .. The old ladies took off clearly, well, the small satellites were put into orbit!
    2. svp67
      svp67 8 June 2020 09: 57 New
      13
      Quote: Tugarin
      Can’t modernization be avoided? Is the site so outdated?

      Apparently, they will modernize the "stuffing" of the complex, because the new command equipment made in Russia is no longer the same as previously produced in Kharkov. Now she has many new opportunities. Remember how in a few minutes the launch of a rocket from Vostochny was canceled, the equipment said: "No, there is a failure in the system."
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 8 June 2020 10: 23 New
        -7
        Quote: svp67
        Apparently, they will modernize the "stuffing" of the complex, because the new command equipment made in Russia is no longer the same as previously produced in Kharkov. Now she has many new opportunities.

        Good morning, comrade! hi I do not know why, but it was inspired by a bearded joke: "The ensign in front of the formation asks:
        - Who can fix the radio on an armored personnel carrier?
        Soldier out of order:
        - Comrade ensign, and the radio on diodes or semiconductors?
        Ensign:
        - For the gifted I repeat - a walkie-talkie on an armored personnel carrier! "
        Soviet cosmonautics was very much tied to Ukraine and here you can only shrug your hands off of the deed.
        1. svp67
          svp67 8 June 2020 10: 29 New
          13
          Good hi
          Quote: Malyuta
          Soviet cosmonautics was very much tied to Ukraine and here you can only shrug your hands off of the deed.

          I would have thrown up my arms more from the fact that they allowed Ukraine to "leave", although we had every opportunity to prevent this, if not all, then the "necessary" part for us ... Where, where, but in Kharkov the mood was the most suitable
          1. mvg
            mvg 8 June 2020 11: 58 New
            +1
            Well, where, where, but in Kharkov, the mood was the most suitable

            Sergey, you’re wrong .. where, where ... and in Kharkov there wasn’t ice. And how do you imagine Kharkov separately from Ukraine. I speak like a person who has a part of relatives in Ukraine. They do not recognize.
            1. svp67
              svp67 8 June 2020 12: 28 New
              +3
              Quote: mvg
              Sergey, you’re wrong .. where, where ... and in Kharkov there wasn’t ice.

              Just the ice ... there is anti-Maidan even freed the administration from visitors, there is also a video of those events ...
              Quote: mvg
              And how do you imagine Kharkov separately from Ukraine.

              Much more complete than without Russia, with which this city had multiple economic and human ties, the benefit of Belgorod is 80 km ...
              Quote: mvg
              I speak like a person who has a part of relatives in Ukraine. They do not recognize.

              I know, therefore, I say, as people from HOME ...
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 8 June 2020 12: 59 New
              +2
              Quote: mvg
              And how do you imagine Kharkov separately from Ukraine.

              Easy to imagine. As well as Odessa, Nikolaev, Izmail, etc., etc. they have nothing to do with "ukraine".

              And the inhabitants of Odessa and Kharkiv just a little over a hundred years ago would be very surprised that they .... Ukraine.

              And today they would very quickly remember it.
          2. Malyuta
            Malyuta 8 June 2020 13: 41 New
            -1
            Quote: svp67
            . Already where, where, but in Kharkov, the mood was the most suitable

            Kharkov, Dneprpetrovsk, Mariupol, Zaporozhye, Nikolaev, Odessa ... I want to swear, but ...
            Kakhovka, Kakhovka - a native rifle,
            Hot bullet, fly!
            Irkutsk and Warsaw, Oryol and Kakhovka -
            Stages of a long journey.
        2. KCA
          KCA 8 June 2020 10: 44 New
          +1
          Warrant officers are different, with me the foreman of the tank platoon bought the commander of the reconnaissance company, who was almost twice the size of the warrant officer, and even took Makarka from him, cocked, and another warrant officer, my deputy, to the words "comrade warrant officer, let's tie it in the field "answered" son, the vole is pus "and tore with my bare hands, by the way, I, who weighed under 80 kilograms, sat quietly on the vole, and even when jerking it did not break
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 8 June 2020 11: 23 New
            +1
            and tore with his bare hands

            It is unrealistic, voles make leashes from steel veins for fishing, one vein can withstand the Veterok motor (25 kg), personally checked. And there are a dozen of them.
            If only what kind of focus did your Zampotech arrange.
            1. KCA
              KCA 8 June 2020 11: 34 New
              0
              I know perfectly well what the PP-274 is, I’ve already been using a belt from the reel as a trouser belt for 28 years, the PP is pulled on the balcony, but I don’t lie, before my eyes, what tricks were there in the eyes of a dozen soldiers?
            2. dragy52rus
              dragy52rus 8 June 2020 14: 11 New
              +2
              three steel, four copper. wink
              although if a fisherman, then this explains a lot.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 8 June 2020 14: 59 New
                0
                three steel, four copper. wink
                although if a fisherman, then this explains a lot.

                Right, now I looked! laughing
            3. Simargl
              Simargl 11 June 2020 19: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Arzt
              And there are a dozen of them.
              7 veins, 4 - steel.
        3. AVA77
          AVA77 8 June 2020 13: 07 New
          +3
          Diodes are also semiconductors. laughing
          1. Genry
            Genry 8 June 2020 14: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: AVA77
            Diodes are also semiconductors. laughing

            Laughing early! am negative
            Are triodes, tetrodes, pentodes also semiconductors?
            There are diodes and such ... tongue
            1. AVA77
              AVA77 8 June 2020 14: 29 New
              +3
              And where are the radio tubes. Then the question should sound like this - Comrade ensign, and the walkie-talkie on lamps or semiconductors? tongue
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 11 June 2020 19: 20 New
                0
                Quote: AVA77
                Then the question should sound like this - Comrade ensign, and the walkie-talkie on lamps or semiconductors?
                In the original it is ...
            2. hydrox
              hydrox 8 June 2020 17: 14 New
              +1
              It was the case :: beautifully called kenotrons ...
        4. ANB
          ANB 8 June 2020 15: 59 New
          +2
          . Comrade ensign, and the radio on diodes or semiconductors

          Diodes are also semiconductors.
          The original was "on a lamp or transistors?" Well, the anecdote is not at all on the topic of the article.
        5. not main
          not main 8 June 2020 22: 46 New
          0
          Quote: Malyuta
          - Comrade ensign, and the radio on diodes or semiconductors?

          Aren't diodes semiconductors? In the original it sounded like this: "Comrade Warrant Officer, and the walkie-talkie on lamps or on transistors?" Although I think that you do not care, at least lamps, at least transistors! Sorry, but so many people have already noted this blooper that at least delete the comment! But I won't!
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 8 June 2020 13: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: Tugarin
      Can’t modernization be avoided? Is the site so outdated?

      Well, this platform is not intended to launch this type of missile. Or are you such a specialist in astronautics that you think it is possible to launch rocket carriers in an open field?
  2. An64
    An64 8 June 2020 09: 42 New
    -10
    Hey, mistress, give me some water to drink, otherwise I just want to have nowhere to spend the night ...
    It was necessary to make a new management system, and in the end, of all the money on the management system goes only 20% ...
    1. novel66
      novel66 8 June 2020 09: 48 New
      -16
      and then - on managers ...
  3. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 8 June 2020 09: 42 New
    -9
    modernization of the launch pad of the Plesetsk cosmodrome

    And before that, launches were carried out from the territory of Independence?
    1. novel66
      novel66 8 June 2020 09: 49 New
      -8
      on the territory of an independent lol
  4. mojohed2012
    mojohed2012 8 June 2020 09: 50 New
    -8
    I don’t even know what to believe. Earlier in the article they wrote that, they say, we are flying ahead of the 60s, while the USA is using the latest technologies. maybe so, but the question is: Rumble is this precisely the missile base from the USSR? Nothing new!
    1. Vita vko
      Vita vko 8 June 2020 10: 01 New
      10
      Quote: mojohed2012
      Nothing new!

      You're right. And for over 100 years.
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 8 June 2020 10: 02 New
      +6
      After all, is this precisely the rocket base from the USSR? Nothing new!

      A solid rocket with the minimum possible modernization will still serve the good of the Russian space.
    3. Roman123567
      Roman123567 8 June 2020 11: 02 New
      -4
      we fly on the backlog of the 60s, but the United States on the latest technology. maybe so, but here is the question: The rumble is precisely the rocket base from the USSR?


      It seems that the right and left sides of the equation coincide ..
      Touching the 60s = missiles from the USSR ..
      So what is the question here ??))
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 8 June 2020 17: 18 New
        +4
        It is difficult for him to understand that the rockets are already made, are in the warehouse and cap. costs of production of the carrier are ZERO !!!
        Such a low launch cost to no Mask and no NASA ever dreamed of!
  5. Doccor18
    Doccor18 8 June 2020 09: 50 New
    +4
    Americans masterfully pressured Ukrainian politicians to finally kill the entire high-tech industry of Ukraine, the legacy of the USSR.
    Lack of orders and funding will soon throw Ukraine into the "technological middle ages".
  6. Ramzes iv
    Ramzes iv 8 June 2020 09: 53 New
    +2
    Earlier, the Rokota management system was produced in Kharkov by the Khartron enterprise, but after 2014

    Eh Outskirts .. Shameful, everyone yelled on the Maidan for cookies .. Even the fat you are forbidden to release your pah pancake
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 8 June 2020 10: 14 New
    +5
    To launch spacecraft before 2028, you can use more than 40 ICBMs "Stiletto", which were removed from duty.
    Isn’t it economical not to start up under the knife, but to use it for satellite output? And under Gorbachev they vandalously cut and broke.
    1. credo
      credo 8 June 2020 12: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: rotmistr60
      To launch spacecraft before 2028, you can use more than 40 ICBMs "Stiletto", which were removed from duty.

      I would like to remind the author of the article and the moderator of the site that neither the USSR nor Russia had and does not have an ICBM with the name Stiletto. Why parrot and repeat Anglo-Saxon clichés.
      1. zwlad
        zwlad 8 June 2020 14: 13 New
        0
        Under the START treaty - RS-18B, according to NATO classification - SS-19 mod.2 Stiletto
        1. credo
          credo 8 June 2020 15: 05 New
          0
          Thanks for the enlightenment. And then I thought what kind of gibberish it was in the article - "... They are created on the basis of the RS-18B Stilett ICBM, ...".
          Just imagine that the American media in their news article from, for example, Syria write - "Yesterday the local population blocked the column of our mattress makers in the village of X ...".
          Yes, in Russia, Americans are often called that way, but this does not mean that the American media every time they write for their citizens about their military personnel, they must mention their name, which they are called in different countries of the world. And our domestic media and journalists often try to show "erudition" in the right place and out of place, calling their products in the Anglo-Saxon manner and do not look very smart.
          1. zwlad
            zwlad 8 June 2020 21: 06 New
            0
            Unfortunately, the tendency of naming everything in a Western manner
  8. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 8 June 2020 10: 47 New
    -4
    Potanin said offhand that scooping up a solarium from a river after an accident near Norilsk would cost 10 billion rubles, and here the development of a missile system of 3.4 billion. Potanin’s scale is steeper.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 June 2020 14: 44 New
      +3
      Given that there are 21000 cubic meters of diesel fuel spread 10 billion rubles, the amount is not surprising.
    2. ANB
      ANB 8 June 2020 16: 03 New
      +2
      . Potanin’s scale is steeper.

      Already announced in the news that Norilsk Nickel will pay for everything out of pocket. So Potanin can now voice any amount. But there should be clean + penalties for damage.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 8 June 2020 17: 33 New
        +1
        20 thousand cubic meters of diesel fuel snuck into Lake Pyasino (the conclusion is made from what has already been collected (several tens of cubic meters)): on this lake net fishing was carried out all winter and fed Norilsk and the whole region with whitefish and vendace - excellent fish.
        About what got into the soil - complete crap, because there is no land there, and peat is saturated with water.
        According to the photo, from the last obstacle to the lake there are two kilometers, three from the force, but an impassable place, a continuous swamp.
        So HOW Potanin will pull out these thousands of tons of tanning salons from the lake - it is impossible to imagine. To do this, you need a whole special fleet and build tens of kilometers of pipe (military trumpeters can help here).
        And a little reference :: The state of Potanin grew only in 2019. at $ 7,8 billion.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 8 June 2020 17: 47 New
          -4
          Quote: hydrox
          HOW Potanin will pull out these thousands of tons of tanning salons from the lake - it is impossible to imagine

          Gulf oil - how was it pulled out? Technologies have already been developed ...

          And, yes - a solarium in water does not dissolveThink about it? belay

          Quote: hydrox
          Potanin's fortune grew only in 2019. at $ 7,8 billion.

          And yesterday - it fell by one and a half ... what’s wrong with you?
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 8 June 2020 17: 55 New
            +4
            And think about it?
            Potanin of Russia has caused multibillion-dollar (in dollars!) Environmental damage, and the liberal Shobla is already singing about how poor Potanin would be able to compensate for losses if we have such a SOCIAL state.
            Protect him further ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
        2. ANB
          ANB 8 June 2020 19: 20 New
          0
          . Potanin's fortune grew only in 2019. at $ 7,8 billion

          Well, that will share.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 8 June 2020 19: 29 New
            +1
            The amount of $ 150 million is only 2% of the amount of its profit for 2019.
            It will not be enough ...
  9. knn54
    knn54 8 June 2020 10: 52 New
    -4
    Light class carrier - 2,1 ton payload.
    More than one satellite (with a Russian configuration of 1400 kg) will not be displayed.
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 8 June 2020 18: 32 New
      0
      If the launch is worth a penny?
      Yes, for God's sake - and one device is good, if successful!
  10. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 11: 21 New
    -2
    Quote: Tugarin
    That they want to get away from dependence on Ukraine is good.
    The amount also includes expenses for ..., modernization of the launch pad of the Plesetsk cosmodrome, ....

    Can’t modernization be avoided? Is the site so outdated?

    The missile control system will be new. Consequently, the whole system docked with the rocket must be coordinated with it and done again. These are programs, and connectors, and cable routes, and complex control devices. It is possible that pipelines, capacities for fuel components, etc. will change. Can we, sitting on the couch, judge the specifics?
    1. mark1
      mark1 8 June 2020 11: 36 New
      -1
      The control system will be new, but this is how it is. to take the place of the old one, otherwise it's just a banal and cynical drank the bubble with "laying cable routes and pipelines with containers" The same applies to the modernization of the launch complex (the criterion of cost-effectiveness has not been canceled by anyone, efficiency is constant, cost remains)
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 8 June 2020 17: 45 New
        +2
        Interestingly, how many more carriers of the type "Pioneer" and "Voevoda" are in the warehouses - these will be more powerful than the "Stilettos" ...
        1. mark1
          mark1 8 June 2020 17: 51 New
          0
          The pioneer of the BRDS with solid-fuel engines, and even if something remains (although it shouldn’t) has already died out - you can delete it from the list.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 8 June 2020 18: 24 New
            0
            Well, okay, at least Poplars stayed - and that’s good.
  11. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 8 June 2020 11: 27 New
    +2
    control system is the main thing in any weapon ... such systems need to be produced only in Russia ...
  12. Keldysh Mstislav
    Keldysh Mstislav 8 June 2020 12: 28 New
    -8
    First, the RosKosmos structures were "optimized". It took 10 years.
    Mass layoffs ... Khrunichev, Lavochkin, Energomash, Salyut, VMZ, Fakel, Kartukov ...
    Then they decided to work a little .... Master the state order.
    1. Brancodd
      Brancodd 8 June 2020 14: 01 New
      +1
      10 years? For reference, Roscosmos was formed in 2015 from the Federal Space Agency, which in principle did not respond and did not plan anything. All the agency’s activity was reduced to the submission to the government of reports on the activities of space industry enterprises. By 2015, the space industry was a collection of semi-feudal disparate enterprises and institutions. The task of Roscosmos was to consolidate the industry
      1. Keldysh Mstislav
        Keldysh Mstislav 8 June 2020 14: 10 New
        -3
        I have been working in this structure for 12 years. I personally know the former chief engineer of the Khrunichev center ...... Studied from the "Torch" at VZMI. And Roskosmos has a total of about 600 people.
  13. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 12: 36 New
    -1
    Quote: mark1
    The control system will be new, but this is how it is. to take the place of the old one, otherwise it's just a banal and cynical drank the bubble with "laying cable routes and pipelines with containers" The same applies to the modernization of the launch complex (the criterion of cost-effectiveness has not been canceled by anyone, efficiency is constant, cost remains)

    You do not understand what you are writing.
    What does it mean - a new one, but instead of the old? You have an old computer, but if you push a new OS into it, then you have to rack your brains with compatibility of old programs with a new axis .... Some pieces of iron will stop working. So, before you write, think. Not a physical installation is important piece of iron, usually a new one is smaller in consequence with a new electronic filling, but, here are the brains ......
    1. mark1
      mark1 8 June 2020 14: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: vkd.dvk
      What does it mean - a new one, but instead of the old?

      This means that the new Russian should 100% replace the old Ukrainian and issue the same commands in the same algorithms for the same communications with the same actuators, otherwise (replacing cable lines, pipelines, and tanks) this is actually building a new rocket and not adaptation of the old, with all the conclusions. On what element base will it be executed, with which software is it already secondary, the main thing is that it would be cheaper and more reliable
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 9 June 2020 13: 52 New
        0
        Quote: mark1
        This means that the new Russian should 100% replace the old Ukrainian and issue the same commands in the same algorithms for the same communications with the same actuators,

        That is, they leave the analog, and not switch to digital?
        When the Soyuz launch vehicle switched to digital (Soyuz-2), it became possible to launch much larger satellites into orbit (analogue with rocket control, with such a fairing, could not cope.)

        I think if during the modernization of "Rokot" they switched to digital, the return in money would be higher.
  14. Carnifexx
    Carnifexx 8 June 2020 12: 39 New
    +7
    The example gives us confidence that with the replacement of Ukraine in a heavier missile (Zenit), the case will be successful (Soyuz-5 / Irtysh). Ukrainians themselves will compete with insulting Russia - to each his own.
  15. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 12: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: Pvi1206
    control system is the main thing in any weapon ... such systems need to be produced only in Russia ...

    Right. But it’s also true that it is simply not possible to make an old system NOW, therefore. that the components are discontinued, and new ones have other properties. And, not only the size and speed of operation. But, and functionally. The new has, almost always, many properties that are extremely useful, which, of course, you would like to have.
  16. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 12: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: knn54
    Light class carrier - 2,1 ton payload.
    More than one satellite (with a Russian configuration of 1400 kg) will not be displayed.

    To judge an object, you need to have brains, and information in them.
  17. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 8 June 2020 12: 45 New
    0
    The amount also includes expenses for the creation of the upper stage, modernization of the launch pad of the Plesetsk cosmodrome, the organization of the first launch and other expenses.

    Here, the main thing is that, as with "Vostochny", history does not repeat itself along the beaten track ...
    1. Brancodd
      Brancodd 8 June 2020 14: 05 New
      +1
      With the first phase of the East, erected by Spetsstroy. With 146 criminal cases. The second phase is being built slightly ahead of schedule (by 1.5 months). Funding goes through the treasury.
      1. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 8 June 2020 14: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Brancodd
        Funding goes through the treasury.

        Well, and - God forbid!
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 11 June 2020 20: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Vasyan1971
      Here, the main thing is that, as with "Vostochny", history does not repeat itself along the beaten track ...
      UR-100N 360 pcs riveted. Shoot the leftovers to get the benefits ...
  18. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 12: 51 New
    +2
    Quote: gabonskijfront
    Potanin said offhand that scooping up a solarium from a river after an accident near Norilsk would cost 10 billion rubles, and here the development of a missile system of 3.4 billion. Potanin’s scale is steeper.

    It’s not possible to drag nerds into the head. From easier to shoot.
    What poured into the river is the hundred millionths of what has been absorbed into the soil. Which needs to be somehow removed, to a great depth, and taken out. Where? It is impossible to burn in place. Good to be a fool. No headache. About nothing.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 11 June 2020 20: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: vkd.dvk
      Which needs to be somehow removed, to a great depth, and taken out. Where? It is impossible to burn in place.
      Reclamation. Populate with organisms, dig up ... there is technology.
      Quote: vkd.dvk
      Good to be a fool. No headache. About nothing.
      Well yes. Read about recovery methods - for smart ones.
  19. Old26
    Old26 8 June 2020 12: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: Tugarin
    Can’t modernization be avoided? Is the site so outdated?

    Most likely, it is necessary to change the equipment (which was intended for the analog control system, cable management. Some kind of work will most likely be carried out on the table itself.

    Quote: rotmistr60
    To launch spacecraft before 2028, you can use more than 40 ICBMs "Stiletto", which were removed from duty.
    Isn’t it economical not to start up under the knife, but to use it for satellite output? And under Gorbachev they vandalously cut and broke.

    Not all and not always. "Pioneer" and other MRBMs, I agree, stupidly cut, but ICBMs were put under the knife if nothing could be done

    Quote: Civil
    What is wrong with Yasny? There all launches were successful.

    There were no launches of "Rokot" from Yasnoye ... Only "Dnepr" (from conversion)
    1. mark1
      mark1 8 June 2020 14: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Most likely, it is necessary to change equipment (which was intended for the analog control system, cable management.

      And why did you decide that the Hartron control system is analog? Do you know for sure (I do not) just declare? This is not an old development.
  20. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 13: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: An64
    Hey, mistress, give me some water to drink, otherwise I just want to have nowhere to spend the night ...
    It was necessary to make a new management system, and in the end, of all the money on the management system goes only 20% ...

    The control system of such highly forced systems is the most complex, most important and most expensive. There, the adjustment of the parameters is done with milliseconds and milligrams. Compare the tank engine and the Formula 1 engine.
    The power is almost equal. But everything else ..... Including the price.
  21. Old26
    Old26 8 June 2020 14: 25 New
    +3
    Quote: mark1
    And why did you decide that the Hartron control system is analog? Do you know for sure (I do not) just declare? This is not an old development.

    Do you think the conversion development 30 years ago was digital? The same Soyuz-FG, which had been in operation since 2001, had an analog control system. Does the "Rokot", which has been in operation since 1990, have a figure?
  22. Keldysh Mstislav
    Keldysh Mstislav 8 June 2020 14: 35 New
    -1
    Oh! It is a pity that V.N. Chalome ....... Now there are no such designers
  23. Old26
    Old26 8 June 2020 15: 10 New
    +3
    Quote: Keldysh Mstislav
    Oh! It is a pity that V.N. Chalome ....... Now there are no such designers

    Yes there are designers. There wouldn’t be - we wouldn’t have modern military missile systems for various purposes.
    1. Keldysh Mstislav
      Keldysh Mstislav 8 June 2020 16: 19 New
      -7
      No .... And so the Soviet Union nestles are being reworked. The level of education of modern designers, engineers is the lowest. The degradation is complete. There are almost no professional, highly skilled workers.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 8 June 2020 18: 39 New
        0
        By the way, this problem arose in the last years of the Union’s life.
        And now - yes, it’s a complete exam, even if you create technical schools for every year and a half — and then, if you can master the basics of science that are necessary as a basis for future engineers and scientists ...
  24. Old26
    Old26 8 June 2020 16: 07 New
    +2
    Quote: Piramidon
    Well, this platform is not intended to launch this type of missile. Or are you such a specialist in astronautics that you think it is possible to launch rocket carriers in an open field?

    Actually, Stepan, Site 133/3 was used to launch the Rokot launch vehicle

    Quote: zwlad
    Under the START treaty - RS-18B, according to NATO classification - SS-19 mod.2 Stiletto

    Plus a couple more notations. ICBM - UR-100N UTTH or 15A35. As a carrier - 14A05.
  25. Old26
    Old26 8 June 2020 16: 36 New
    +6
    Quote: Keldysh Mstislav
    No .... And so the Soviet Union nestles are being reworked. The level of education of modern designers, engineers is the lowest. The degradation is complete. There are almost no professional, highly skilled workers.

    The level of education, as with union, is different for different people. I wanted to study - it was a normal level, I didn’t want to - and in the future I could remain a third-rate engineer.
    As for the workers, I can also agree. And what about the designers ... "Sarmat" is not made by deeply retired people. And the "Sarmat" itself is not a "Soviet stash". Solid fuel, especially the latter - "Yars" - is also the development of Russia, not the USSR. So there are designers and workers (because someone does all this) ...
  26. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 17: 40 New
    +1
    Quote: mark1
    Quote: vkd.dvk
    What does it mean - a new one, but instead of the old?

    This means that the new Russian should 100% replace the old Ukrainian and issue the same commands in the same algorithms for the same communications with the same actuators, otherwise (replacing cable lines, pipelines, and tanks) this is actually building a new rocket and not adaptation of the old, with all the conclusions. On what element base will it be executed, with which software is it already secondary, the main thing is that it would be cheaper and more reliable

    If you had stood (at least) for a week near the kulman of the designer, then you would have understood that FOR ANY changes that could affect .... and, with significant changes in the production technology, design, or after a long interruption in production, anyway type tests, or others that are appointed by the Chief, and in contact with the Customer's Representative.
    What is the point of doing something without doing anything. You, that’s exactly what you are saying.
  27. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 17: 47 New
    +3
    Quote: Old26
    Quote: Keldysh Mstislav
    No .... And so the Soviet Union nestles are being reworked. The level of education of modern designers, engineers is the lowest. The degradation is complete. There are almost no professional, highly skilled workers.

    The level of education, as with union, is different for different people. I wanted to study - it was a normal level, I didn’t want to - and in the future I could remain a third-rate engineer.
    As for the workers, I can also agree. And what about the designers ... "Sarmat" is not made by deeply retired people. And the "Sarmat" itself is not a "Soviet stash". Solid fuel, especially the latter - "Yars" - is also the development of Russia, not the USSR. So there are designers and workers (because someone does all this) ...

    That's it. Moreover. to work on OLD backlogs is to work with old materials, components, electrical equipment, electronic devices, programs and other things, ALREADY LONGER DISCONTINUED. On old machines that rotted and scrapped. In other words, it is completely stupid to say that we are now working on a backlog.
    If not everything, then almost everything is new. New machines, new technologies, new materials, new people. Finally, the production organization system itself, cooperation relations is new.
  28. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 17: 57 New
    +3
    Quote: Keldysh Mstislav
    No .... And so the Soviet Union nestles are being reworked. The level of education of modern designers, engineers is the lowest. The degradation is complete. There are almost no professional, highly skilled workers.

    Stupidities do not sculpt. The work of the designer does not tolerate the blat. There are all sorts of people there, drunk, hooligans, truants and lazy people. Like everywhere. FOOLS are not there. Because the designer is an absolute individualist. Constructor teams do not exist. There is a bunch of individualists who care only about their own work and their own prestige. And that is the norm. The prestige of a specialist is the implementation of a REAL miracle in life. Failed to appear, no progress. Nobody can help him in his work, he cannot tell. And he has to answer for any of his decisions. He has no place to hide. And he appears as a special in three days. Nobody can do anything for him, even if he really wants to. To do this, you need to delve into the problem for a very long time. And thieves or d urak takes off from work in a second, he just needs to get to the workshop where his car is assembled.
    Highly skilled workers are extinct. Just because the equipment on which they worked was decommissioned 20 years ago. On a DIP-200 or 1K62 lathe, it only sharpens bolts at the collective farm forge for about 90 years. But this is already not ..... Today's specialists work on modern equipment, which are much more skilled than those. And these guys are a mass phenomenon, unlike the Kulibins of the past. The only ones in technology do not.
    1. vkd.dvk
      vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 18: 13 New
      +2



      This is what makes progress.
    2. Keldysh Mstislav
      Keldysh Mstislav 9 June 2020 13: 24 New
      0
      I repeat that I work in the structure of Roscosmos.
      Yes there is new equipment. Chinese machine tools assembled by Bogorodsky Machine Tool Plant from spare parts. Curved, oblique, everlasting. Constantly breaking.
      The Minister of Education said that starting from 2021, termination of training for a universal wagon driver, universal milling machine operator, universal turner, mechanic repairman, auto mechanic, toolmaker, assembly fitter and another 21 specialties will be discontinued. In view of the futility of these specialties.
      All around are ultra-highly qualified CNC operators, programmers and super technologists.
      Russia, after all, is the birthplace of super-industrial botanical centers. Behind our 6-axis CNC, the Japanese are in line ....
      Secretly and Americans with the Germans are buying our machine wonder equipment ....
      I have experience of 42 years and 6th category. Plus ten additional specialties. Plus 220 copyright certificates.
      Member of the SBI & R since 1985
      They have been cutting me since 2003 - seven times ...
  29. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 8 June 2020 19: 09 New
    +4
    Quote: Keldysh Mstislav
    Oh! It is a pity that V.N. Chalome ....... Now there are no such designers

    And now there is. And no worse. The main difference between these times is the scarcity of the budget. If Korolev, Chelomey, Tikhonravov were given everything, stripping the whole country (it was so necessary), then there were results. But all the time in this mode, people will not live. Hopes for a brighter future. I do not know, therefore you, that in the Ryazan region, in those days, the collective farmer’s workday was paid in the amount of 18 kopecks. Otherwise, they would not have written it.
    1. Keldysh Mstislav
      Keldysh Mstislav 9 June 2020 13: 27 New
      -1
      In the suburbs, my grandmother (mother of my mother) received a pension of 4 rubles 32 kop. in 1975
      And in 1985 - 8rub 54kop
  30. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 9 June 2020 13: 34 New
    -1
    Quote: Keldysh Mstislav
    They cut me from 2003 - seven times ..

    The drummer of Communist Labor has been forgotten. Since I had experience working as the head of the design department, I would not have hired you with your 7 cuts. Never. It doesn’t matter how many rational offers you have. This thing is written at a time, for the report, and it doesn’t matter if it was accepted or not. Rationalizers who climb into the documentation, but have never read the normative documentation, I would kill on the spot. Achineas had to reject so much, a member of the Breeze Council for many years.
    Judging by your nickname, you should have been beaten for a long time. Fantasy was enough only for this.
    Publish a pair of certificate numbers. And I will find the topic and content myself.
    And the Minister is right. Training should be provided by the firms themselves. For yourself. With all kinds of violence in employment and place of work. And preferences to talents. Why the hell on the state budget to drag modern loafers who have never entered the labor market for a profession received for free? There is a desire to WORK, go study. No desire, go to hell with the dog. Nannies should be at home. Not law enforcement officers to engage in education, but parents.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 11 June 2020 20: 32 New
      0
      Quote: vkd.dvk
      Training should be provided by the firms themselves.
      I wanted to slap a plus sign ...
      Well, if the company is engaged in metalworking ... and if one or two machinists who cover the needs? Who will teach them what programs?
      Quote: vkd.dvk
      There is a desire to WORK, go study.
      Everyone needs a young specialist, with housing, experience in the profession of 100500 years, executive, not a drinker, ready to work 22 hours a day, for a pennyи. But, in your opinion, even if there is a desire, there will be nowhere to learn.
  31. vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk 9 June 2020 13: 51 New
    +2
    Quote: Keldysh Mstislav
    In the suburbs, my grandmother (mother of my mother) received a pension of 4 rubles 32 kop. in 1975
    And in 1985 - 8rub 54kop

    That's it. And, given that the country's labor reserves TOGETHER were completely different, the rural population prevailed in numbers, at times, then there was a saving on free (almost) labor .... Ask yourself a question and answer yourself - Why did China cheat at such a pace? in economics about five years ago? The answer is they did not pay pensions to the elderly at all. counting. what parents should support their adult children. And this is with the then almost billion population. Would you like a Chinese experience with us now?

    Do you notice how MUCH any mechanical tools are now in stores? How much chemistry, and all ...? They did not ask themselves the question, WHY did 80% of all the world's industrial robots work in Japan in the 80s? The answer is simple - the worker there was very expensive. High wages, and the owner was profitable to spend money on the mechanization of work. With us .... Only women with hammers worked in the railway, in orange katsaveiks. Why mechanization? She is expensive. A woman is enough to give 80 rubles. And she doesn’t need housing next to a piece of iron, and these 80 rubles for her, in comparison with collective-farm workdays ..... Isn’t this why we LEFT IN TECHNOLOGIES ????
  32. doubovitski
    doubovitski 11 June 2020 21: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Simargl
    Quote: vkd.dvk
    Training should be provided by the firms themselves.
    I wanted to slap a plus sign ...
    Well, if the company is engaged in metalworking ... and if one or two machinists who cover the needs? Who will teach them what programs?
    Quote: vkd.dvk
    There is a desire to WORK, go study.
    Everyone needs a young specialist, with housing, experience in the profession of 100500 years, executive, not a drinker, ready to work 22 hours a day, for a pennyи. But, in your opinion, even if there is a desire, there will be nowhere to learn.

    One or two machinists at a company manufacturing turbine blades on CNC machines. We will not have such firms for a very long time. On universal equipment can be trained in centers working on shares. Better, of course, to solve problems as they arise.
    DO NOT work ANYTHING just because something does not fit into the idea - it will die within a year. Whole country. And the employer sending the young to study, of course, will give him work. Or do you want to turn on the Soviet conveyor, and forcibly send the graduates to hell knows where, giving the diploma only after a deadline? That is, starting with a home guaranteed by CUPS (he doesn’t have a diploma in his hands where to get the specials). In the design bureau at our factory there were many such messengers. Loafers sitting on beggarly 100 rubles, and living in a hostel. Half drunk and fled as soon as they got such an opportunity.
  33. doubovitski
    doubovitski 11 June 2020 21: 40 New
    0
    Quote: Simargl
    Quote: vkd.dvk
    Which needs to be somehow removed, to a great depth, and taken out. Where? It is impossible to burn in place.
    Reclamation. Populate with organisms, dig up ... there is technology.
    Quote: vkd.dvk
    Good to be a fool. No headache. About nothing.
    Well yes. Read about recovery methods - for smart ones.

    In permafrost? Do you understand what you are writing? When the surface layer thaws for a couple of months a year.
    There, a trace from a crawling all-terrain vehicle does not heal for decades.
  34. doubovitski
    doubovitski 13 June 2020 11: 24 New
    0
    Quote: Simargl
    Reclamation.

    I understand that reclamation in mining is good, albeit costly. The excavated rock, after mining is useful, is poured back into the mine, almost leveling the pit. This is how they rehabilitate careers. In mines, in order to exclude underground fires, surface dips in the workings, fill the worked-out space with a clay aqueous solution. After sedimentation, the water leaves, is removed by pumps, and is filled with new portions of pulp. The remains of coal, having received contact with air, light up and burn for hundreds of years. So, the top of a coal seam, burned during geological periods, has a thickness of tens of meters. Tell us what you meant by land reclamation in the permafrost. Dig a hole, a million cubic meters, and a depth of fifty meters, dig oil dirt down, and fill up? But the oil will still squeeze up. It is good that boobies are not allowed to control any structures.